Speaker 1: Welcome to tonight's classic episode of Stuff they don't want
Speaker 1: you to know. Ah, you've read the news, folks. The
Speaker 1: world is full of garbage, and believe it or not,
Speaker 1: there is a cult of people in the United States
Speaker 1: who eat some of that garbage on purpose. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, this one sounds so strange on the surface,
Speaker 2: just that phrase, right, cult of the garbage eaters.
Speaker 1: Unfair unfair pr on.
Speaker 3: This sounds like something Harmony Kourn would make a movie about,
Speaker 3: you know, like, well, he did make a movie called
Speaker 3: Trash Humpers.
Speaker 2: Maybe this could be the sequel.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it turns out in some small towns and
Speaker 3: some rural parts of the world college campuses across the
Speaker 3: Flotso flyover States Middle America type locations, there are a
Speaker 3: small group of nomadic bearded wanderers who make their own
Speaker 3: clothes and claim.
Speaker 2: That they know when the end of times is coming.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, we recorded this in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: right or thereabouts?
Speaker 2: Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Matt?
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, again, we're still in June twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: Okay, so they haven't been right so far. It's twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three. Times have not ended, not quite, but they're
Speaker 1: getting pretty close. Oh, everybody says that they said that
Speaker 1: during the Bronze Age collapse they were wrong, Then you're right.
Speaker 1: But this is the question. You know, how many of
Speaker 1: these cults or cultic organizations exist on the very fringes
Speaker 1: of public knowledge. This is our attempt to learn more
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt
Speaker 2: Nola's not here today.
Speaker 1: But we'll be returning soon. They call me Ben. We
Speaker 1: are joined with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decand
Speaker 1: you know, maybe for this episode he is our elder evangelist.
Speaker 1: Oh wow. Second, but most importantly, friends and neighbors, conspiracy
Speaker 1: realists and skeptics alike, welcome to the show. You are you,
Speaker 1: and you are here, and that makes this stuff they
Speaker 1: don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: That's right. And today we're going to delve into another cult.
Speaker 2: We've discussed them on this show before, how to start them,
Speaker 2: how to identify them, how to deprogram yourself from them.
Speaker 2: Cults are you know, a troubling but fascinating thing to discuss.
Speaker 1: And much more common, especially here in the States, than
Speaker 1: the average person might get. There's something very American about
Speaker 1: cults in the global idea or concept. You know, when
Speaker 1: you if you ask somebody in the United Kingdom about
Speaker 1: a cult, they might tell you something about Charles Manson
Speaker 1: or Jim Jones.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, there's something very American about the need
Speaker 2: or the want to be an independent or breakaway group
Speaker 2: from a major thing.
Speaker 1: Oh good, call man, I didn't think about that yet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Now. This group we're discussing today goes by
Speaker 1: many names, and we started thinking about this off air
Speaker 1: when we ran into some strange stories on the edge
Speaker 1: of the news for the most part. So here's the skinning.
Speaker 1: We've all heard of dumpster divers or survivalist other people
Speaker 1: living off the grid for one reason or another. Often
Speaker 1: people are driven to this lifestyle through some sort of necessity,
Speaker 1: maybe poverty, homelessness. Escaping law enforcement also happens way more
Speaker 1: often than you would think. Or they may be pursuing
Speaker 1: a philosophical position. It may just be a temporary situation,
Speaker 1: a form of vacation. In some cases, however, people are
Speaker 1: driven by something deeper.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the spiritual movement a calling, and they'll just latch
Speaker 2: onto a set of beliefs, or find a set of
Speaker 2: beliefs to be latched onto. It compels them to leave
Speaker 2: just the everyday mundane, all the stress, the studies, the career,
Speaker 2: the family, the expenses, everything, just leave it behind.
Speaker 1: Just hit the road, right, hit the old dusty trail,
Speaker 1: and light out for the territories. As Mark Twain was
Speaker 1: wont to say, so when people disappear because of this
Speaker 1: spiritual calling, this revelation, right, this imperative from a supernatural force. Right,
Speaker 1: When this happens for most people, at least most people
Speaker 1: here in the States, it's just another example of freedom
Speaker 1: of religion. If you're not hurting anyone, you're allowed to
Speaker 1: do what you feel like doing.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, if you're over eighteen, you can move wherever
Speaker 2: you want to move, if it's within the legal constraints
Speaker 2: of citizenship and everything.
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, So if you want, if you just decide.
Speaker 1: If Paul one day, for instance, halfway through this recording says.
Speaker 4: You know what.
Speaker 1: Done, I'm Donzo, I'm out of this. I am going
Speaker 1: to Mississippi, Mississippi. I'm going to Mississippi. I'm only gonna
Speaker 1: wear blue clothes. These are the two things I realized.
Speaker 1: I'll build the religion around that. Then he can absolutely
Speaker 1: do that, and there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with people doing this as individuals or as intentional communities,
Speaker 1: unless that is. There's more to the story, but let's
Speaker 1: start as the Mad Hatter was rumored to say at
Speaker 1: the beginning, yeah, I believe that he doesn't. I don't
Speaker 1: believe he actually makes that quote. He is also not
Speaker 1: called the mad Hatter.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yep, yep. I remember we discussed that on
Speaker 2: this show before, did we. Oh yeah, yeah, I think
Speaker 2: we briefly brought that up. The mad Hatter not actually
Speaker 2: being the mad Hatter.
Speaker 1: He's just that mad, just the hatter, Yeah think, oh man,
Speaker 1: but he.
Speaker 2: Is a okay, so he is mad, but he is
Speaker 2: not the mad Hatter.
Speaker 1: Right, and he's mad because that's an allusion to the
Speaker 1: mercury right used to form hats, the felt of hats.
Speaker 1: I remember we talked about this, Oh man, the past
Speaker 1: is blurring, you know, a watercolor in the rain. Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you, We're done now. So here the facts. We're
Speaker 1: talking about this group that, according to itself doesn't really
Speaker 1: subscribe to the concept of names. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Correct, It's not about the name.
Speaker 1: It's not about the name.
Speaker 2: It's the system, man, That's what it's about.
Speaker 1: And we would like to introduce you to the leader
Speaker 1: of the group we're exploring today, brother evangelist jim Roberts.
Speaker 2: According to Jay Gordon Melton's Encyclopedia of American Religions, this
Speaker 2: gentleman Jimmy T. Roberts was born in Paducah, Kentucky, on
Speaker 2: June fifth, nineteen thirty nine. He was the son of
Speaker 2: a part time Pentecostal preacher named Coy Roberts. Now Jimmy
Speaker 2: was one of six siblings and his family was not
Speaker 2: very well off. There impoverished, living in poverty, and Coy
Speaker 2: couldn't seem to hold a steady job. This is the father,
Speaker 2: Jimmy's father, and most of the family's income came from
Speaker 2: the mother, Missus Roberts, job down at the town drug store.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and for the Roberts family, we see that the
Speaker 1: idea of material gain is it's not the primary focus
Speaker 1: of their lives. They're the primary focus of their lives
Speaker 1: seems to be religion or spiritual calling both parents of
Speaker 1: deeply religious. We mentioned that he the father was a
Speaker 1: part time Pentecostal preacher. He was at a place called
Speaker 1: the Church of Jesus Christ granted not the most creative name.
Speaker 1: It was a small, independent church pastored by a man
Speaker 1: named Herbie Reed, and Jim's mother was a member of
Speaker 1: an anti Trinitarian United Pentecostal church.
Speaker 2: And well, we'll discuss what that means a little later.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought of you. I was reading some of
Speaker 1: this stuff. I knew you were going to be our
Speaker 1: go to pick. Yeah, to explain this because you know
Speaker 1: some of the doctrinal differences there.
Speaker 2: It's a bit strange, but we'll get to it.
Speaker 1: So Jim himself was preaching by the age of fifteen,
Speaker 1: and Irbie Reed's relative recalls him at a very young
Speaker 1: age saying, hal is hot and there's no ass water.
Speaker 2: Oh man, just such an observation, you know, it's I
Speaker 2: think it gives us a sense of the type of.
Speaker 1: Oration he was presenting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a simple image that he's giving you. There's
Speaker 2: something that you won't be able to have while you're
Speaker 2: in this place. That's really bad. So you got to
Speaker 2: keep yourself away from it.
Speaker 1: And also it is a fire and brimstone message. It's
Speaker 1: very much like that early American work Sinners in the
Speaker 1: Hands of an Angry God. Yes, it's dwelling, not on
Speaker 1: the good stuff, the nice things that might happen, or
Speaker 1: you know, the glory the kingdom of heaven. It's dwelling
Speaker 1: on the punishments and the dangers.
Speaker 2: It's that stick. This is really interesting for as we're
Speaker 2: getting into this a little late, what Jim's views are
Speaker 2: or the way he shaped his beliefs about spirituality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he kept this consistent theme. He was also a
Speaker 1: smart kid who was only child in his family to
Speaker 1: finish high school. And we're not equating intelligence necessarily one
Speaker 1: to one with going through an educational system successfully, as
Speaker 1: anyone who has experienced with rural America or rural parts
Speaker 1: of the world will know, often, very very intelligent children
Speaker 1: are not able to participate in the education system because
Speaker 1: they have to work on maybe in an agricultural field
Speaker 1: or somehow provide income for their family. But despite these obstacles,
Speaker 1: Jim Roberts made it out of Paducah in nineteen fifty eight.
Speaker 1: He joined the Marine Corps. He became a sergeant. He
Speaker 1: served until nineteen sixty one, and he was a Vietnam veteran.
Speaker 1: He returned to civil life and he moved around the
Speaker 1: United States working a number of jobs. He ended up
Speaker 1: in Chicago with the chance that the American dream version
Speaker 1: of life in the sixties, you know, he found love.
Speaker 1: He found love, and he thought, is this my chance
Speaker 1: to have a spouse, my two point five kids, my
Speaker 1: nine to five job for a few decades with the
Speaker 1: gold watch at the end.
Speaker 2: You don't get those anymore. He probably would have yeah
Speaker 2: at that time.
Speaker 1: But the answer is no. His romance failed, and around
Speaker 1: the same time he encountered a very eccentric group known
Speaker 1: as the Jesus People on the North side of Chicago
Speaker 1: in a neighborhood called Uptown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those intentional communities there. You might
Speaker 2: find a few around. I know in Atlanta there are
Speaker 2: several you can go and visit. Just a group of
Speaker 2: like minded people living together.
Speaker 1: Who how do we describe them in a previous episode,
Speaker 1: These sorts of communists, just people who are extremely on
Speaker 1: the same page about this very specific fate. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that a spiritual, intentional community is
Speaker 1: just not going to care about Yes, they picked like
Speaker 1: a number of very small things, and then everybody is
Speaker 1: in lockstep ideologically about them. This encounter, you know, his
Speaker 1: experience spending time with the Jesus people provide some high
Speaker 1: octane fuel to Jim Robert's spiritual journey, and he doubles
Speaker 1: down on his lifelong dedication to religion. He moves out.
Speaker 1: You'll hear a couple of different stories about this. One
Speaker 1: story will tell us that he moves to Missoula, Montana
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, and then you'll hear other people say, no,
Speaker 1: he joined a movement in Colorado. He met a small
Speaker 1: group of fundamentalist, extremist Christians. So these would be people
Speaker 1: who recognize a Bible and use it right, read from it,
Speaker 1: and study it as any other Christian would. Christians in
Speaker 1: the audience, you know, there are multiple versions and iterations
Speaker 1: of Bibles, which also we're setting up as a little
Speaker 1: bit of foreshadowing here. But Roberts began to exert influence
Speaker 1: on this group. He was not content to be a member.
Speaker 1: He wanted, you see, to be a leader. And coming
Speaker 1: out of the Vietnam War, his experience as a marine
Speaker 1: as a marine sergeant gave him some hardcore, take no
Speaker 1: poop skills when it came to leadership.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, everything from the stone cold stare at someone
Speaker 2: when you're having let's say, a theological argument, to keeping
Speaker 2: someone in line when they're incorrect or when you believe
Speaker 2: they're incorrect. There are all kinds of things like that.
Speaker 2: There was a quote that he had a piercing, mesmerizing gaze.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of rasputant esque perhaps, so he would stare
Speaker 1: people down, he would mentally dominate them, kind of a
Speaker 1: Darren Brown. Probably a little bit of pickup artistry in there,
Speaker 1: you know, the same thing that charismatic religious figures will use.
Speaker 1: And he successfully became the leader of the group. He
Speaker 1: had also grown to hate the world, the modern world.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Remember now this is him coming off of this
Speaker 2: relationship that didn't work out after he probably saw it
Speaker 2: as the golden opportunity and his entire life was ahead
Speaker 2: of him, and he saw it and then it failed.
Speaker 2: So now he's kind of in a way spiraling into
Speaker 2: this Like in a way, you could say that, but
Speaker 2: we're not. You know, you can't ascribe all of this
Speaker 2: person's actions to this one thing that happened to them,
Speaker 2: but you can definitely see how it's morphing. Uh, and
Speaker 2: Roberts realized that, oh my god, the end of the world.
Speaker 2: It's about to happen. The world is going to end.
Speaker 2: He felt like his world was ending. He thought he
Speaker 2: was seeing the signs. You know, there wasn't some date
Speaker 2: that he told everyone the world is going to end,
Speaker 2: but you know, he knew it was coming. He could
Speaker 2: feel it right.
Speaker 1: He had a divine revelation. It was something where he thought,
Speaker 1: you people have always said this before, but now I
Speaker 1: know the end truly is nigh. And this means that
Speaker 1: we must purify ourselves. We have a very small window
Speaker 1: of time TikTok TikTok, TikTok TikTok, and a lot of
Speaker 1: work to do as individuals and as a group. Return
Speaker 1: to homespun clothes, don't own a car or a house
Speaker 1: or a bank account, live off the land, end and
Speaker 1: bear witness or proselytize ofangelize so that other people get
Speaker 1: the message. It's the only way we can be saved.
Speaker 1: He planned to drop out of society entirely, and he
Speaker 1: ordered his followers to do the same. In the decades afterwards,
Speaker 1: this group traveled widely and separately. If you attended college
Speaker 1: in the United States, by the way, you might have
Speaker 1: seen one.
Speaker 2: Or had a conversation with a small group of people.
Speaker 1: If they thought you were vulnerable. Right, So, they would
Speaker 1: scour college campuses looking for the quote called out. These
Speaker 1: are the people the group believes will join them to
Speaker 1: escape the imminent looming judgment day. This is the birth
Speaker 1: of the group that would come to be called the Brethren.
Speaker 2: And we'll continue to explore that group. After a quick
Speaker 2: word from our sponsor.
Speaker 1: Well, old friend, what'd you say, Shall we play the
Speaker 1: name game with the Brethren?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, let's begin with what they're known as externally
Speaker 2: to the outside world. Ooh, laid on me, the Jim
Speaker 2: Roberts Group or the Roberts Group.
Speaker 1: I get that. That's probably from some law enforcement or
Speaker 1: cult hunting networks, right yeah.
Speaker 2: And also the parents of group members. They have a
Speaker 2: group and they call them the Roberts Group.
Speaker 1: Internally, we'll hear conflicting things. There will be some ex
Speaker 1: members or survivors of the group who say that it
Speaker 1: never has a name. Maybe was referred to as the Church,
Speaker 1: or they would refer to each other as the Brothers.
Speaker 1: And sisters, the Body of Christ, the Brethren. But there
Speaker 1: is another name that has recently surpassed the other names
Speaker 1: in terms of popularity.
Speaker 2: The garbage eaters.
Speaker 1: And you did them, you did some digging on this, Matt.
Speaker 1: Where did that come from?
Speaker 2: Well, it comes from their mode of attaining sustenance, at
Speaker 2: least the groups preferred mode of getting food and water,
Speaker 2: and that's by either making arrangements with stores that have
Speaker 2: food that's about to expire and then taking it from them,
Speaker 2: or just by scavenging, going through dumpsters and dumpster.
Speaker 1: Diving, right, yeah, dumpster diving.
Speaker 2: And oh yeah, and it was named this or it
Speaker 2: was coined to this on an episode of twenty twenty
Speaker 2: that was discussing the Roberts Group.
Speaker 1: And they called them garbage eaters.
Speaker 2: Yes, I believe the host said that name.
Speaker 1: So that's a little a little hyperbolic, little derogatory.
Speaker 2: It does not describe in any way the beliefs of
Speaker 2: the group or what it stands for anything besides the
Speaker 2: way that they get food.
Speaker 1: And freakinism. I know, we have a lot of people
Speaker 1: who've done dumpster diving before in the crowd. Freakidism is
Speaker 1: not an objectionable thing. Especially when we consider the shear
Speaker 1: just staggering, tragic and disgusting amount of food waste, things
Speaker 1: that are thrown out when they're perfectly good and they
Speaker 1: could be feeding starving people. But yeah, of course we
Speaker 1: can't legally tell you that that's a good idea to
Speaker 1: go dumpster diving and live off the wasteful spoils of
Speaker 1: these supermarkets. But we can tell you that in many
Speaker 1: places it is against the law. It's trespassing, and some cases,
Speaker 1: if you don't know what you're doing, you could easily
Speaker 1: give yourself some sort of food poisoning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we can say that you can make some
Speaker 2: kind of arrangement with maybe a local store or something.
Speaker 2: I mean, you can at least reach out and see
Speaker 2: what they say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can go to the manager of a store
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. A lot of places
Speaker 1: like bakeries have to throw stuff out things like that,
Speaker 1: So they're living in a very low impact weight and
Speaker 1: they've been mocked or I guess characterized as somehow vile
Speaker 1: or repellent because they're doing something with the noblest of intentions,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And it's it's strange that
Speaker 1: that would be what people latch onto. So we do
Speaker 1: want to say very clearly, it's not a it's not
Speaker 1: a cult that worships garbage and eating it. No, I
Speaker 1: would be fascinated by that. I think you would too.
Speaker 2: Sure. But but okay, so we know so far, this
Speaker 2: is what we've established. Jim Roberts is the head of
Speaker 2: this group that we're let's I guess we'll call them
Speaker 2: the Brethren, because that's what they're known as internally.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: And we know that they scavenge for food. Let's talk
Speaker 2: about what they believe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are there actual beliefs? Matt?
Speaker 2: Okay, So they officially they follow the teachings of the
Speaker 2: Old and New Testament, so both books major books of
Speaker 2: the Bible, but it's taught as interpreted by Jim Roberts,
Speaker 2: the leader, and literal meanings are given to passages in
Speaker 2: the Holy Writings, and they tell you know, they we
Speaker 2: go through some of these, right, don't We have some
Speaker 2: quotes somewhere in here. You'll get into that, like specifically
Speaker 2: what pieces of scripture are used to develop the group
Speaker 2: and kind of control the group and maintain it.
Speaker 1: Yes, and as we established earlier, there's not just one
Speaker 1: Bible you know, there's just one Tora, there's just one Quran.
Speaker 2: There are different translations, but that doesn't mean the books
Speaker 2: are different.
Speaker 1: Right, And then there are when we get to the Bible,
Speaker 1: you got all you got, all kinds of stuff you
Speaker 1: got some some have extra books added, some have books
Speaker 1: taken away. All of these, by the way, are created
Speaker 1: by people who feel like they're reaching the purest form
Speaker 1: of it. Yes, and then others will rely on different translations.
Speaker 1: And this great game of telephone essentially proceeds from the
Speaker 1: ancient eras to our modern day. And they the Brethren,
Speaker 1: have a particular version of the Bible that they feel
Speaker 1: is the best.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and it's the King James version. You might
Speaker 2: have seen that one coming. It's according to Robert's this
Speaker 2: translation is the one, and all other translations are corrupt,
Speaker 2: as well as the beliefs of most other outside Christian
Speaker 2: organizations besides the Brethren.
Speaker 1: And it sounds strange at first when we think about
Speaker 1: the King James version being touted as the purest version
Speaker 1: of the Bible, because of course, the original books that
Speaker 1: would later come into the Bible were not written in English. No, right,
Speaker 1: and the I believe that the King James version is
Speaker 1: the third English translation improved by English church authorities. But
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, Although it sounds crazy, I've heard
Speaker 1: this reasoning in other rural communities where someone says, well,
Speaker 1: the King James Bible, and I heard someone say this,
Speaker 1: Matt is the closest to what Jesus Christ actually said.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was big where I grew up, particularly
Speaker 2: with members of the Southern Baptist Church, some of those.
Speaker 1: Which is still do you see what I'm saying? Is
Speaker 1: still confounds me because when I first heard it, I thought, well,
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ didn't speak English, so what in the purest
Speaker 1: form of whatever was said be something that occurred in
Speaker 1: the language and which was spoken and then originally written.
Speaker 2: Rationally, Absolutely, I would say, in my experience, I did
Speaker 2: not think about that at the time.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean again, it's a spiritual matter, right, So yes,
Speaker 1: According to Roberts, the King James version, that's the one,
Speaker 1: that's the only one except no substitutions.
Speaker 2: M h.
Speaker 1: And when it comes to the nature of God, like
Speaker 1: his mother, Jim Roberts is a staunch anti Trinitarianist, believing
Speaker 1: that God is not three separate things. Instead, the Brethren
Speaker 1: are moodalists. They think it's all one thing, one God.
Speaker 1: But Matt, what exactly is trinitarianism because I feel like
Speaker 1: we can only get a rough sense of what it
Speaker 1: is by, say, you know, just by the etymology. It's
Speaker 1: against threeism. What does that mean?
Speaker 2: Yes, trinitarianism or the trinity doctrine. This is the belief
Speaker 2: that God exists as three separate but equally important persons.
Speaker 2: And the word persons is used a lot when describing
Speaker 2: these separations of God. The only thing is the Father,
Speaker 2: the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Those three separate things
Speaker 2: are each made out of the same essence, the same being,
Speaker 2: the same matter. It's the same thing, it's but at
Speaker 2: the same time as three separate persons. It's a little
Speaker 2: weird the way I think about it. Is water. You know,
Speaker 2: water exists as liquid, gas, and a solid, and it
Speaker 2: can be that the same water can be each of
Speaker 2: those three states at any time. But it's still h two. Oh,
Speaker 2: It's still made of the same exact essence or matter.
Speaker 2: But then when you get into modalism, this is this
Speaker 2: one is a bit confusing for me. This is the
Speaker 2: belief that God is a single being or person that
Speaker 2: has revealed itself to people in different ways at different
Speaker 2: times in history. Okay, so when God created the universe,
Speaker 2: God manifested itself as the Creator. Then when Jesus was
Speaker 2: born and came down to Earth, it was again the
Speaker 2: same God, but manifesting itself in a different way.
Speaker 1: Like an incarnation of sorts kind of.
Speaker 2: But again when you when you talk about it this way,
Speaker 2: it seems like it's the exact same belief system.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, that they're built of the same substance.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely a deep doctrinal point. Yes, But what
Speaker 1: you're saying about modalism makes me think of the old
Speaker 1: story of the mice and the elephant, you know, where
Speaker 1: these tiny mice run into an elephant for the first time,
Speaker 1: and one hits against its leg and thinks it's discovered
Speaker 1: a tree. Yes, one hits its nose and thinks it's
Speaker 1: discovered a snake, and so on, without realizing that this
Speaker 1: is all a greater, single thing.
Speaker 2: That's a great point. I just I I kind of
Speaker 2: don't want to sit in a room and have an
Speaker 2: argument with somebody who's a trinitarian and a modalist and
Speaker 2: just have them argue, because I don't think I would
Speaker 2: enjoy that.
Speaker 1: I would watch it, but only if I could have
Speaker 1: snacks and leave whenever I want.
Speaker 2: Okay, totally, totally if.
Speaker 1: I would love to hear this doctrinal argument, so long
Speaker 1: as I do have popcorn with like the option for
Speaker 1: I don't know, what's what's your snack of choice when
Speaker 1: you go to the movies?
Speaker 2: Oh, I bring my own? I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, matt we can't legally tell people to do that.
Speaker 2: I don't do that. I just don't go to the
Speaker 2: movies anymore.
Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, you are a man of principle, my friend.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of principles, yes, let's get into the key scriptures. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the Brethren uses.
Speaker 1: There are several key lines of scripture guiding the Brethren.
Speaker 1: One is from Luke fourteen thirty three. So likewise, whosoever
Speaker 1: he be of you, that forsaketh not all he hath,
Speaker 1: he cannot be my disciple. It's a literal interpretation. If
Speaker 1: you don't give up everything, you're screwing up already from
Speaker 1: the jump. And then there's Matthew as well.
Speaker 2: Right, I'll read Matthew there we go nineteen twenty nine
Speaker 2: and says, and everyone that hath forsaken houses or brethren
Speaker 2: or sisters, or father or mother or wife, or children
Speaker 2: or lands. For my name's sake, shall receive an one
Speaker 2: hundredfold and shall inherit everlasting life. So if you give
Speaker 2: up everything, you forsake, all the people in your life,
Speaker 2: all the stuff in your life, you're going to live forever,
Speaker 2: at least in a way. Tight.
Speaker 1: Yep, No, seriously, I think that that sounds like a
Speaker 1: cool promise, right, if that's a real thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're the loco. You're giving up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're inheriting everlasting life away from everything you love, well,
Speaker 1: away from your worldly loves. Okay, Right, that's the idea,
Speaker 1: is that your real family is going to reward you.
Speaker 1: Your real family being God and your proximity to God.
Speaker 1: There are a few more you can look up and
Speaker 1: read to yourself, such as Acts four thirty two, Matthew
Speaker 1: six twenty five. They're big Matthew fans. I mean, who
Speaker 1: is it? I'm I'm a Matthew fan.
Speaker 2: Parents in the eighties were huge Matthew fans. There we go.
Speaker 1: What else do we have?
Speaker 2: Mark eight thirty five and two, Timothy six seven and eight,
Speaker 2: And we'll just read that one really quickly, for we
Speaker 2: brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we
Speaker 2: can carry nothing out and having food and raiment, let
Speaker 2: us be therewith content.
Speaker 1: As we mentioned before, there are no metaphors in this church.
Speaker 1: In this group, all of these things are literal interpretations,
Speaker 1: and they have a rigid, one would say, militaristic hierarchy.
Speaker 1: The members of the group are put into smaller groups,
Speaker 1: subgroups cells, in other words, similar to the organizational principles
Speaker 1: used by some terrorist groups. And they are small, they
Speaker 1: are nomadic. They might squat in a house, they might
Speaker 1: find a cabin, they might camp in the woods. They
Speaker 1: can range in size. It can be just one person
Speaker 1: sent to a city or area as a scout, as
Speaker 1: a harbinger of sorts, or it can be as many
Speaker 1: as fifteen people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are stories of groups that will find a
Speaker 2: house that's abandoned and then actually, rather than just squatting
Speaker 2: per se, just being in that house while there's no
Speaker 2: one living there, making an arrangement with the property owner
Speaker 2: to clean the house, to keep the the yard and
Speaker 2: everything spick and span and looking nice, but be able
Speaker 2: to live.
Speaker 1: There, which sounds kind of cool if you're a if
Speaker 1: you're a landowner and you're aware of these folks. They
Speaker 1: seem like pretty cleaned up people. They're not out doing drugs, right,
Speaker 1: They're not going to be committee crazy, heinous criminal acts
Speaker 1: on your property.
Speaker 2: I could see it being really troublesome though, because if
Speaker 2: you've got a house that's either abandoned or maybe just
Speaker 2: no one has rented for a long time, and then
Speaker 2: you have someone a tenant like that in your home,
Speaker 2: and then let's say somebody is interested in renting that
Speaker 2: home or buying that home, you can't just kick him out.
Speaker 2: There's some very complicated rules and laws having to do
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 1: Oh he squatters, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. They kick in
Speaker 1: at various times, depending on the state or the country
Speaker 1: you're in. So when and where these groups move is
Speaker 1: ultimately going to be up to the Brother Evangelist Jim Roberts,
Speaker 1: who's known as Brother Evangelists. He's the elder of Elders now,
Speaker 1: which is important to the group. The membership of these
Speaker 1: groups always changes. So let's say you, Paul, and I
Speaker 1: were a three man unit and we were sent out
Speaker 1: to maybe scout for a place in New Orleans or
Speaker 1: near New Orleans, right, and then well, I'd say we
Speaker 1: hung out. We were we just got too cool with
Speaker 1: each other. We said, you know, well this has been
Speaker 1: a fun ride, but maybe we should just stay in
Speaker 1: New Orleans, you know, start a band, I play the
Speaker 1: obo or something whatever we play in that situation, Well,
Speaker 1: that would damage the overall group and as a result,
Speaker 1: the membership of these groups, these subgroups, these cells changes frequently,
Speaker 1: and they're sent in different directions to prevent them from
Speaker 1: getting any kind of relationship, whether a friendship is something
Speaker 1: like a collegiate thing or even a romantic thing, to
Speaker 1: prevent that from ever becoming a competing focus. Right, and
Speaker 1: it's a very effective way to control people. The additional
Speaker 1: control system for every cell is what's called the elder.
Speaker 2: Yes, this is the person who has been in the
Speaker 2: group the longest. It's not we're not talking to elders
Speaker 2: as in the oldest alive person. We're talking about the
Speaker 2: oldest member of the.
Speaker 1: Group, right right, the oldest in terms of if we
Speaker 1: count them joining the church, yes, like day one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely absolutely. And then an elder is placed in
Speaker 2: charge of each group or sell or camp, whatever you
Speaker 2: want to call it. And these elders then as these
Speaker 2: cells function take orders directly from Roberts.
Speaker 1: Yes, and there are. They're not going to be questioned
Speaker 1: by the people who are beneath them. No, they're just
Speaker 1: going to jump when they're told to jump. Because Brother
Speaker 1: Evangelist Roberts, he did to change his name to Evangelists.
Speaker 1: By the way, he has the first and last word
Speaker 1: on any and all issues, questions, declarations, and decisions. Furthermore,
Speaker 1: they have stark gender division with prescribed duties for each
Speaker 1: person based on Oh, and we should go ahead and
Speaker 1: say they only have the two genders. Yeah, it's only
Speaker 1: male or female. And and what kind of stuff are
Speaker 1: they required to do?
Speaker 2: Well, let's say you're a brother of the Brethren. You're
Speaker 2: gonna need to gather all the food. You're gonna have
Speaker 2: to protect the sisters physically, you're gonna have to witness
Speaker 2: to people wherever you travel. And then if you're a sister,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to cook and clean and sew and
Speaker 2: serve all the meals to the brothers, and on top
Speaker 2: of that, witness. So everybody's got a full plate here
Speaker 2: of things to do. The big issue here is that
Speaker 2: women are subservient to the brothers. And you know that
Speaker 2: is a biblical thing. If you're taking the Bible literally,
Speaker 2: that is one thing that you will find in there. Unfortunately.
Speaker 2: But here's the weird thing for a group of this kind,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, the weird thing there is, according to
Speaker 2: the Parents Network, there is no sexual or intimate physical
Speaker 2: relationship of any kind between these members, the male and
Speaker 2: female members of the.
Speaker 1: Brethren, not even for the purposes of procreation.
Speaker 2: No, just they are I don't know, they're brothers and
Speaker 2: sisters literally anyway.
Speaker 1: Right, soldiers for their cause. The one common task for
Speaker 1: both genders in this group is to witness, in other words,
Speaker 1: to evangelize. And that's a little bit about how they
Speaker 1: interact with one another. But we have to get to
Speaker 1: the biggest question, which is this how do they interact
Speaker 1: with the rest of the world.
Speaker 2: And we'll get to that right after a word from
Speaker 2: our sponsor.
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. It's the end of the
Speaker 1: world as we know it, according to the Brethren. And
Speaker 1: while there is a certain allure to the idea of
Speaker 1: shucking off all these social constraints and living as a
Speaker 1: wandering as setic or a monk, or a none of sorts,
Speaker 1: survivors of the group and the relatives describe it as
Speaker 1: much less romantic than we might believe, much more oriented
Speaker 1: toward the belief in a coming apocalypse, right, and much
Speaker 1: more rigid than outsiders may be initially led to think.
Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about their recruitment tactic,
Speaker 1: or we mentioned it, but let's dive in. Let's dive
Speaker 1: in because I think longtime listeners are going to recognize
Speaker 1: some of these tactics from earlier works. Right. Yes, So,
Speaker 1: one of their big recruitment tactic of quote unquote calling
Speaker 1: out people, finding lonely, vulnerable college aged individuals and converting
Speaker 1: them works as both the carrot and a stick in
Speaker 1: a very a very smart and somewhat subtle way, because
Speaker 1: the carrot is hello, welcome, this is the one true church.
Speaker 1: We are doing the literal work of God, and you
Speaker 1: can be part of this community, the only one that
Speaker 1: will survive Judgment Day, the only one. And along the
Speaker 1: way you will experience such freedom as you've never felt before,
Speaker 1: a freedom from all financial encumbrance and material goods.
Speaker 2: And if you don't go for that, you get the stick.
Speaker 1: What's the stick?
Speaker 2: Oh? You remember that thing? Judgment Day? Oh? Yeah, where
Speaker 2: everything burns and becomes just charcoal on everywhere. Well about that,
Speaker 2: everybody else on the planet, every other human that you've
Speaker 2: ever met, that has ever existed, they are damned and
Speaker 2: they've well here's why they've turned away from the true
Speaker 2: church obviously.
Speaker 1: Even mom and dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even mom and dad. They didn't accept the carrot.
Speaker 2: So they're you know, they're going to hell. This is
Speaker 2: literally the first and last chance. This right here, me
Speaker 2: coming to you and talking to you about my thing.
Speaker 2: This is the last chance you get before just fire.
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna go to biology one o one,
Speaker 1: but now I'm freaked out.
Speaker 2: You're gonna go to biology? Why do you what are
Speaker 2: you gonna What are you gonna study in biology?
Speaker 1: I was gonna be a doctor.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'd recommend chemistry because all you're gonna have is carbon.
Speaker 2: That's all it's gonna be here, just carbon.
Speaker 1: Uh. And at this point, I guess the prison, say,
Speaker 1: and you've convinced me. Yeah, away with these Adidas that
Speaker 1: I'm wearing, away with this book of biology. There's only
Speaker 1: one book I need, right, That's that's how it would happen.
Speaker 2: It's this King James.
Speaker 1: It's this King James specifically accept no substitutions. What's fascinating
Speaker 1: about this carrot and this stick is it sets the
Speaker 1: first precedent for interaction between the initiates and existing group members,
Speaker 1: whether they're brothers or sisters, or elders or what have you,
Speaker 1: because it puts forth a dichotomy and for the rest
Speaker 1: of their lives, if they're in this church, there is
Speaker 1: no gray area. There is only the black white yes, no, follow,
Speaker 1: don't follow, salvation or damnation for every decision, which is
Speaker 1: amazing and terrifying. Yeah. And additionally, as you said, Matt,
Speaker 1: the inner hierarchy of the church is absolutists. They're determined
Speaker 1: entirely by when someone joined and how long they've been
Speaker 1: a member of the group. We found a pretty pretty
Speaker 1: interesting crowdsourced interview from a survivor who wished to remain anonymous,
Speaker 1: and he said, if you joined the church one week
Speaker 1: before someone else, you had to quote obey that dude
Speaker 1: as if if he was a servant of God that
Speaker 1: was sent to be your elder. The women that were
Speaker 1: in the group for twenty years were to be subject
Speaker 1: and obedient to a brother that was there for only
Speaker 1: a year. Young women were subject to everyone.
Speaker 2: One thing that comes to mind is that there was
Speaker 2: a seventeen year old boy that was an elder according
Speaker 2: to the length of time that he was in the church,
Speaker 2: which was all of his life, so members must be
Speaker 2: totally subject to him, even forty year olds. If you
Speaker 2: were a fifty year old and joined eight years ago,
Speaker 2: you were subject to anything that seventeen year old said,
Speaker 2: unless it was super unreasonable, like told to do some
Speaker 2: atrocious act.
Speaker 1: Right right, or told to do something physically impossible. Yes,
Speaker 1: grow another hand, No, out of your butt. Oh you know,
Speaker 1: I hopefully this kid wasn't say that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's entirely time based. I don't sorry, man,
Speaker 1: I just I went blue.
Speaker 2: I went to blue joke. Okay, hey, I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I'm trying it just and this is not working. Okay, No,
Speaker 2: please don't try. No one listening to attempt that.
Speaker 1: So that's that internal communication is troubling communication with family
Speaker 1: and or authorities. This is where we find the really
Speaker 1: sticky stuff and the most direct stuff they don't want
Speaker 1: you to know. In regards to this organization, whether you
Speaker 1: want to call it a church, whether you want to
Speaker 1: call it a spiritual movement, whether you want to call
Speaker 1: it a cult. They do not want you to know
Speaker 1: where they are going, what they're doing, or why. They
Speaker 1: have been told that they must abjure, hate, and loathe
Speaker 1: everything from their past life. Their life started over when
Speaker 1: they joined the church.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no contact with family members who are outside
Speaker 2: of the structure whatsoever at all, unless, of course jim himself,
Speaker 2: old Jimmy says hey, you can talk to these guys,
Speaker 2: and if he says it's okay, then it's okay. But
Speaker 2: the majority of the time, just parents, siblings, friends, the
Speaker 2: rest of the family. They're just completely locked out of
Speaker 2: the lives of the members of the.
Speaker 1: Brethren, right, and it can happen suddenly. You can reaccount
Speaker 1: detailing how Roberts would instruct people to isolate themselves or
Speaker 1: to maintain contact.
Speaker 2: And write a letter to their parents. That's one of
Speaker 2: the first things they did. Write a letter and say, hey, sorry,
Speaker 2: can't be in your life anymore.
Speaker 1: Right, and I don't want you to be all gloried
Speaker 1: to God. You know this is consensual on my part.
Speaker 1: That's what their letter says, and for it to be
Speaker 1: sent in root while they are traveling by bike or
Speaker 1: by bus often or occasionally by train hopping. I think
Speaker 1: a few still do that. And additionally, we have to
Speaker 1: mention several of these these people who are joining this
Speaker 1: movement or we're joining it, are not necessarily on the
Speaker 1: fringes of society. We're talking about the owners of multimillion
Speaker 1: dollar businesses. We're talking about people who were attending Harvard, which,
Speaker 1: from what you may have heard, is an okay school,
Speaker 1: and they're throwing away all their worldly possessions to join
Speaker 1: this thing. They're throwing away their relationships, and they are
Speaker 1: chastised if they attempt to reach out to their parents.
Speaker 1: And you can see or their parents or their spouse
Speaker 1: or whomever, and you can see the way that this
Speaker 1: splinters the group. But you can also just imagine if
Speaker 1: you don't have access to a cell phone, you don't
Speaker 1: have access to an internet connection unless you go into
Speaker 1: a library, right or unless you find a quarter for
Speaker 1: a payphone. You can use a payphone if you can
Speaker 1: find one. In twenty eighteen, that's the only way you
Speaker 1: can communicate. I guess you could also in the letter,
Speaker 1: but you can't wait around for that letter to return
Speaker 1: because you don't know when your leader will tell you
Speaker 1: to move somewhere else. You don't know where they're going
Speaker 1: to just tell you to move.
Speaker 2: It's complete speculation. But I imagine if word got to Roberts
Speaker 2: that you had sent a letter of any kind to
Speaker 2: someone in any way, you might get a notice to
Speaker 2: get on the move, just because that idea of you've
Speaker 2: got a a from address. You know there's a return
Speaker 2: address on there, and that could you could give up
Speaker 2: the whole cell. Ugh awful to think about it that way.
Speaker 1: But you could. It's just so easy to use a
Speaker 1: fake address. Yeah, just write down the name of a
Speaker 1: building in the zip code where you happy to be
Speaker 1: mailing the letter from.
Speaker 2: Yes, but when you mail the letter from that zip code,
Speaker 2: it's going through the postal services or however you got
Speaker 2: it there right system, and you're you know, you can
Speaker 2: at least get a rough area of where it came from.
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. But who doesn't love getting mail?
Speaker 1: Also in this stage, I feel like I have to
Speaker 1: point that out. You can always send us mail, by
Speaker 1: the way, if you wish. And that's a little bit
Speaker 1: of levity because we're going into some dark territory here.
Speaker 1: Discussion with outsiders is only allowed to the extent that
Speaker 1: it encourages more people to join the group, or that
Speaker 1: it attends to a need of the existing group. Discussion
Speaker 1: internally the way that we would understand discussion is not
Speaker 1: allowed at all, verboten, the Germans would say, similar to
Speaker 1: the Marines. Oddly enough, the Brethren follow a strict chain
Speaker 1: of command wherein contradictions are not only not allowed, they
Speaker 1: do not exist.
Speaker 2: They're impossible.
Speaker 1: They are impossible. It's bad double plus on good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Due to the eminent approach of the end of day,
Speaker 1: single members are banned from marrying, as, according to Roberts,
Speaker 1: there's not enough time. In other words, members are supposed
Speaker 1: to dedicate themselves entirely, just spreading the message of the church.
Speaker 1: Couples with children were allowed to join back in the day,
Speaker 1: but the rules for those kids were incredibly strict, including
Speaker 1: get this, a ban on playing, which is just disastrous
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the way you become a human. So you play.
Speaker 1: And the bulk of their conversation is conducted through payphones
Speaker 1: only they we don't know. In the modern day, for
Speaker 1: whichever members of the Brethren are out there, we still
Speaker 1: don't know if they're using burner.
Speaker 2: Phones not as effective anymore as concealing for concealing your location. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: they still work.
Speaker 1: That still work. You know, it's still better than buying
Speaker 1: a cell phone service plan. Yes, when you have renounced
Speaker 1: all worldly possessions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess the cell phone is a worldly possession.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but so we're closed, right.
Speaker 2: But they make those.
Speaker 1: Do you think they can make cell phones?
Speaker 2: Maybe if they make.
Speaker 1: Self this changes everything for me. I might think they're
Speaker 1: I would just be impressed by the magiverishness of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough to dumpster dive for all those rare
Speaker 2: earth minerals. But maybe I don't know, who knows. Maybe
Speaker 2: the recycling program for electronics. M There you go.
Speaker 1: So in the darker realm, here we see the allegations
Speaker 1: of abuse. The good news is that they're not allegations
Speaker 1: that we can find of sexual abuse, other than forcing
Speaker 1: people to ignore their own sexuality, right, which is a
Speaker 1: form of abuse. The big thing we found was emotional abuse.
Speaker 1: Members are held hostage to this group by the fundamental
Speaker 1: belief that leaving the Brethren is tantamount to committing suicide.
Speaker 1: It's actually worse than committing physical suicide, because you are
Speaker 1: sacrificing your soul Yeah, the real thing that matters, and
Speaker 1: when members are suspected of straining off the path, they
Speaker 1: are harshly warned. They're probably putting a new cell with
Speaker 1: strangers or people they don't know very well. And if
Speaker 1: they are ex members, they are completely and successfully shunned
Speaker 1: because you know, like the practice you've probably read about
Speaker 1: with the Amish or maybe some other groups, this group
Speaker 1: will as a community, as a unit, ghost on its
Speaker 1: x members and they're very very very good at hiding.
Speaker 2: At least, you know, they don't sue the pants off
Speaker 2: of them they're ex members the way some other conversations
Speaker 2: you know have anyway, Laaran, Yeah, that's what it is,
Speaker 2: Lauren Hubbish, Yep, I'm almost there.
Speaker 1: Who is it?
Speaker 2: I can't think of it. All I know. All I
Speaker 2: know is that when it comes to going to the
Speaker 2: doctor or getting medicine any kind of prescription, there is
Speaker 2: some weird stuff going on with the Brethren.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The second the second tier or type of abuse
Speaker 1: would be negligence in terms of medical treatment. You see,
Speaker 1: the Brethren believe that the use of medicine and doctors
Speaker 1: does not give the example of living by faith. That's
Speaker 1: a quote. So in some cases members are believed to
Speaker 1: have died from curable conditions or injuries due entirely to
Speaker 1: the group's opposition to modern medical treatment or any medical treatment.
Speaker 1: So for anyone wondering why we're using the phrase are
Speaker 1: believed to have, Yes, it's because again a lot of
Speaker 1: people go off the grid. And like we discussed in
Speaker 1: our Missing for one one episodes a couple of other things,
Speaker 1: it is still in the age of GPS and spookily
Speaker 1: sophisticated satellites. It is still possible to disappear in this country,
Speaker 1: easier in fact than you might think.
Speaker 2: Certainly and disturbingly so. Correct.
Speaker 1: But they have found some people, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, they have, and some people have come forward. Some
Speaker 2: We found a Reddit thread where people were discussing this
Speaker 2: group and a couple of people saying that they were
Speaker 2: for members. It's out there and you can get out.
Speaker 2: And that's the big thing. I don't know how you
Speaker 2: would be listening to this if you are a member.
Speaker 2: It's much more likely that family members of someone who
Speaker 2: became a part of Brethren is actually listening to these words.
Speaker 2: And let's take a moment in describe perhaps what you
Speaker 2: can do. The first thing that we found when we
Speaker 2: were looking into. This is something called the Roberts Group
Speaker 2: Parents Network, and it has a website n FI sh
Speaker 2: e l dot tripod dot com. It's an old Tripod website.
Speaker 2: It's pretty great though, if you go through there. The
Speaker 2: mission of the website says in the group is to
Speaker 2: release the members of the control of the Roberts Group
Speaker 2: and establish two way communication and an open and loving
Speaker 2: relationship between members and their families. So they just want
Speaker 2: to reconnect family members with members of the Roberts Group, right,
Speaker 2: And it goes on to say that if you recognize
Speaker 2: anyone on these pages, or if you suspect your loved
Speaker 2: one is a part of the Roberts Group, we empathize
Speaker 2: with you. We know the pain you feel and deeply
Speaker 2: regret that you share our situation. On the other hand,
Speaker 2: we'd like to welcome you into our fellowship. We've been
Speaker 2: brought together from all parts of the country by our
Speaker 2: common loss. Our sorrow is the same. In supporting each other,
Speaker 2: we find new strength to make it through one day
Speaker 2: at a time and the new hope that we'll be
Speaker 2: re united with the loved ones that were taken from
Speaker 2: our lives. So really, I mean it's a sobering thing
Speaker 2: to go through that website because it describes exactly the
Speaker 2: types of people that are usually joining this group. It
Speaker 2: talks about in full the scriptures, it talks about how
Speaker 2: the recruiting occurs, and there are even letters there written
Speaker 2: to the sons and daughters of people who have joined
Speaker 2: the group and chosen to leave their family behind. I
Speaker 2: would say this is probably a good group to join
Speaker 2: if you are dealing with something like this. If you
Speaker 2: don't like to join groups, maybe don't do that. If
Speaker 2: you're suspicious of all groups now at this point I
Speaker 2: can I would understand that. However, this is one to
Speaker 2: at least look at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, said Matt and agreed. And currently this brings
Speaker 1: us up to speed on the background and the nature
Speaker 1: of the very very secretive group traveling off the grid
Speaker 1: entirely here in the US and possibly in Canada and
Speaker 1: Mexico at times known as the Brethren or thanks to
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, the garbage Eaters. We do have one last
Speaker 1: piece of news here in conclusion, Brother evangelist Jim Roberts
Speaker 1: passed away at the age of seventy six in twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: likely due to cancer. He had not seen a doctor
Speaker 1: in forty years who was practicing what he preached, and
Speaker 1: he had been alternately described as a sweet and harmless
Speaker 1: man or a quote paranoid megalomaniac who wanted to control
Speaker 1: every aspect of his followers' lives. As of a few
Speaker 1: years ago, the population of the group, which was never
Speaker 1: super super large, had reduced to around sixty or so men.
Speaker 1: Are they still out there today riding the rails somewhere?
Speaker 1: Is there still someone who wants to contact their loved
Speaker 1: ones and people from the life they left behind, but
Speaker 1: are too intimidated to do so. These are open questions.
Speaker 1: We do not know the answer, and there are very
Speaker 1: few people who do. Many of those who do know
Speaker 1: the answer don't want to be found.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know where we go from here, Ben.
Speaker 2: Besides just saying, beliefs are tricky things. They can be
Speaker 2: like viruses sometimes.
Speaker 1: And they function almost exactly like viruses. A good belief
Speaker 1: can spread and infect and reproduce itself in the minds
Speaker 1: of others, which is a beautiful thing and a terrifying thing.
Speaker 1: And one of the most important parts of this show
Speaker 1: that we have to touch on here is the following.
Speaker 1: If you are or someone you know is involved in
Speaker 1: a cult like group, or let's say, if we don't
Speaker 1: want to use the C word, let's say an organization
Speaker 1: that is forcing them to do things against their will
Speaker 1: and isolating them. And you're starting to see some of
Speaker 1: these red flags. Do not be afraid to reach out
Speaker 1: to groups like the Jim Roberts parent group that you mentioned, Matt.
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to call someone for advice or look
Speaker 1: on forums. The resources are there. And many times it
Speaker 1: sounds easy to say, oh, there's nothing physically keeping someone
Speaker 1: in a spot, but we must remember that the heaviest,
Speaker 1: strongest chains we have ever put on a human being
Speaker 1: are always chains of ideas, not chains of steel or iron,
Speaker 1: and the chains that exists in your mind and sometimes
Speaker 1: you need help to be free of them.
Speaker 2: You can find Ben and Nolan I on Twitter where
Speaker 2: we're conspiracy Stuff, the same on Facebook. On Instagram we
Speaker 2: are a conspiracy stuff show. We have a website stuff
Speaker 2: they don't want you to know where you can find
Speaker 2: every podcast we've ever made and some videos and other
Speaker 2: stuff on there. And that's the end of this classic episode.
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