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Speaker 1: Welcome to tonight's classic episode of Stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. Ah, you've read the news, folks. The

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Speaker 1: world is full of garbage, and believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: there is a cult of people in the United States

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Speaker 1: who eat some of that garbage on purpose. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this one sounds so strange on the surface,

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Speaker 2: just that phrase, right, cult of the garbage eaters.

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Speaker 1: Unfair unfair pr on.

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Speaker 3: This sounds like something Harmony Kourn would make a movie about,

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Speaker 3: you know, like, well, he did make a movie called

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Speaker 3: Trash Humpers.

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Speaker 2: Maybe this could be the sequel.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it turns out in some small towns and

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Speaker 3: some rural parts of the world college campuses across the

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Speaker 3: Flotso flyover States Middle America type locations, there are a

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Speaker 3: small group of nomadic bearded wanderers who make their own

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Speaker 3: clothes and claim.

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Speaker 2: That they know when the end of times is coming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, we recorded this in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: right or thereabouts?

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 1: Matt?

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, again, we're still in June twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so they haven't been right so far. It's twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three. Times have not ended, not quite, but they're

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Speaker 1: getting pretty close. Oh, everybody says that they said that

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Speaker 1: during the Bronze Age collapse they were wrong, Then you're right.

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Speaker 1: But this is the question. You know, how many of

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Speaker 1: these cults or cultic organizations exist on the very fringes

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Speaker 1: of public knowledge. This is our attempt to learn more

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt

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Speaker 2: Nola's not here today.

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Speaker 1: But we'll be returning soon. They call me Ben. We

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Speaker 1: are joined with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decand

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe for this episode he is our elder evangelist.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow. Second, but most importantly, friends and neighbors, conspiracy

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Speaker 1: realists and skeptics alike, welcome to the show. You are you,

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Speaker 1: and you are here, and that makes this stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And today we're going to delve into another cult.

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Speaker 2: We've discussed them on this show before, how to start them,

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Speaker 2: how to identify them, how to deprogram yourself from them.

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Speaker 2: Cults are you know, a troubling but fascinating thing to discuss.

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Speaker 1: And much more common, especially here in the States, than

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Speaker 1: the average person might get. There's something very American about

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Speaker 1: cults in the global idea or concept. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you if you ask somebody in the United Kingdom about

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Speaker 1: a cult, they might tell you something about Charles Manson

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Speaker 1: or Jim Jones.

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Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, there's something very American about the need

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Speaker 2: or the want to be an independent or breakaway group

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Speaker 2: from a major thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh good, call man, I didn't think about that yet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. Now. This group we're discussing today goes by

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Speaker 1: many names, and we started thinking about this off air

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Speaker 1: when we ran into some strange stories on the edge

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Speaker 1: of the news for the most part. So here's the skinning.

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Speaker 1: We've all heard of dumpster divers or survivalist other people

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Speaker 1: living off the grid for one reason or another. Often

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Speaker 1: people are driven to this lifestyle through some sort of necessity,

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Speaker 1: maybe poverty, homelessness. Escaping law enforcement also happens way more

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Speaker 1: often than you would think. Or they may be pursuing

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Speaker 1: a philosophical position. It may just be a temporary situation,

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Speaker 1: a form of vacation. In some cases, however, people are

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Speaker 1: driven by something deeper.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the spiritual movement a calling, and they'll just latch

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Speaker 2: onto a set of beliefs, or find a set of

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Speaker 2: beliefs to be latched onto. It compels them to leave

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Speaker 2: just the everyday mundane, all the stress, the studies, the career,

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Speaker 2: the family, the expenses, everything, just leave it behind.

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Speaker 1: Just hit the road, right, hit the old dusty trail,

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Speaker 1: and light out for the territories. As Mark Twain was

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Speaker 1: wont to say, so when people disappear because of this

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Speaker 1: spiritual calling, this revelation, right, this imperative from a supernatural force. Right,

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Speaker 1: When this happens for most people, at least most people

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Speaker 1: here in the States, it's just another example of freedom

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Speaker 1: of religion. If you're not hurting anyone, you're allowed to

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Speaker 1: do what you feel like doing.

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Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, if you're over eighteen, you can move wherever

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Speaker 2: you want to move, if it's within the legal constraints

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Speaker 2: of citizenship and everything.

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Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, So if you want, if you just decide.

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Speaker 1: If Paul one day, for instance, halfway through this recording says.

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Speaker 4: You know what.

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Speaker 1: Done, I'm Donzo, I'm out of this. I am going

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Speaker 1: to Mississippi, Mississippi. I'm going to Mississippi. I'm only gonna

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Speaker 1: wear blue clothes. These are the two things I realized.

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Speaker 1: I'll build the religion around that. Then he can absolutely

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Speaker 1: do that, and there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: wrong with people doing this as individuals or as intentional communities,

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Speaker 1: unless that is. There's more to the story, but let's

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Speaker 1: start as the Mad Hatter was rumored to say at

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Speaker 1: the beginning, yeah, I believe that he doesn't. I don't

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Speaker 1: believe he actually makes that quote. He is also not

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Speaker 1: called the mad Hatter.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yep, yep. I remember we discussed that on

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Speaker 2: this show before, did we. Oh yeah, yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: we briefly brought that up. The mad Hatter not actually

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Speaker 2: being the mad Hatter.

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Speaker 1: He's just that mad, just the hatter, Yeah think, oh man,

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Speaker 1: but he.

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Speaker 2: Is a okay, so he is mad, but he is

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Speaker 2: not the mad Hatter.

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Speaker 1: Right, and he's mad because that's an allusion to the

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Speaker 1: mercury right used to form hats, the felt of hats.

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Speaker 1: I remember we talked about this, Oh man, the past

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Speaker 1: is blurring, you know, a watercolor in the rain. Oh,

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Speaker 1: thank you, We're done now. So here the facts. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about this group that, according to itself doesn't really

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the concept of names. You know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Correct, It's not about the name.

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Speaker 1: It's not about the name.

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Speaker 2: It's the system, man, That's what it's about.

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Speaker 1: And we would like to introduce you to the leader

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Speaker 1: of the group we're exploring today, brother evangelist jim Roberts.

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Speaker 2: According to Jay Gordon Melton's Encyclopedia of American Religions, this

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Speaker 2: gentleman Jimmy T. Roberts was born in Paducah, Kentucky, on

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Speaker 2: June fifth, nineteen thirty nine. He was the son of

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Speaker 2: a part time Pentecostal preacher named Coy Roberts. Now Jimmy

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Speaker 2: was one of six siblings and his family was not

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Speaker 2: very well off. There impoverished, living in poverty, and Coy

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Speaker 2: couldn't seem to hold a steady job. This is the father,

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Speaker 2: Jimmy's father, and most of the family's income came from

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Speaker 2: the mother, Missus Roberts, job down at the town drug store.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and for the Roberts family, we see that the

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Speaker 1: idea of material gain is it's not the primary focus

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Speaker 1: of their lives. They're the primary focus of their lives

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Speaker 1: seems to be religion or spiritual calling both parents of

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Speaker 1: deeply religious. We mentioned that he the father was a

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Speaker 1: part time Pentecostal preacher. He was at a place called

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Speaker 1: the Church of Jesus Christ granted not the most creative name.

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Speaker 1: It was a small, independent church pastored by a man

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Speaker 1: named Herbie Reed, and Jim's mother was a member of

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Speaker 1: an anti Trinitarian United Pentecostal church.

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Speaker 2: And well, we'll discuss what that means a little later.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought of you. I was reading some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff. I knew you were going to be our

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Speaker 1: go to pick. Yeah, to explain this because you know

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Speaker 1: some of the doctrinal differences there.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit strange, but we'll get to it.

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Speaker 1: So Jim himself was preaching by the age of fifteen,

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Speaker 1: and Irbie Reed's relative recalls him at a very young

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Speaker 1: age saying, hal is hot and there's no ass water.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, just such an observation, you know, it's I

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Speaker 2: think it gives us a sense of the type of.

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Speaker 1: Oration he was presenting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a simple image that he's giving you. There's

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Speaker 2: something that you won't be able to have while you're

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Speaker 2: in this place. That's really bad. So you got to

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Speaker 2: keep yourself away from it.

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Speaker 1: And also it is a fire and brimstone message. It's

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Speaker 1: very much like that early American work Sinners in the

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Speaker 1: Hands of an Angry God. Yes, it's dwelling, not on

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Speaker 1: the good stuff, the nice things that might happen, or

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Speaker 1: you know, the glory the kingdom of heaven. It's dwelling

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Speaker 1: on the punishments and the dangers.

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Speaker 2: It's that stick. This is really interesting for as we're

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Speaker 2: getting into this a little late, what Jim's views are

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Speaker 2: or the way he shaped his beliefs about spirituality.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he kept this consistent theme. He was also a

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Speaker 1: smart kid who was only child in his family to

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Speaker 1: finish high school. And we're not equating intelligence necessarily one

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Speaker 1: to one with going through an educational system successfully, as

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Speaker 1: anyone who has experienced with rural America or rural parts

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Speaker 1: of the world will know, often, very very intelligent children

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Speaker 1: are not able to participate in the education system because

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Speaker 1: they have to work on maybe in an agricultural field

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Speaker 1: or somehow provide income for their family. But despite these obstacles,

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Speaker 1: Jim Roberts made it out of Paducah in nineteen fifty eight.

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Speaker 1: He joined the Marine Corps. He became a sergeant. He

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Speaker 1: served until nineteen sixty one, and he was a Vietnam veteran.

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Speaker 1: He returned to civil life and he moved around the

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Speaker 1: United States working a number of jobs. He ended up

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Speaker 1: in Chicago with the chance that the American dream version

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Speaker 1: of life in the sixties, you know, he found love.

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Speaker 1: He found love, and he thought, is this my chance

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Speaker 1: to have a spouse, my two point five kids, my

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Speaker 1: nine to five job for a few decades with the

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Speaker 1: gold watch at the end.

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Speaker 2: You don't get those anymore. He probably would have yeah

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Speaker 2: at that time.

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Speaker 1: But the answer is no. His romance failed, and around

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Speaker 1: the same time he encountered a very eccentric group known

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Speaker 1: as the Jesus People on the North side of Chicago

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Speaker 1: in a neighborhood called Uptown.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those intentional communities there. You might

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Speaker 2: find a few around. I know in Atlanta there are

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Speaker 2: several you can go and visit. Just a group of

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Speaker 2: like minded people living together.

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Speaker 1: Who how do we describe them in a previous episode,

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Speaker 1: These sorts of communists, just people who are extremely on

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Speaker 1: the same page about this very specific fate. And there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that a spiritual, intentional community is

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Speaker 1: just not going to care about Yes, they picked like

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Speaker 1: a number of very small things, and then everybody is

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Speaker 1: in lockstep ideologically about them. This encounter, you know, his

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Speaker 1: experience spending time with the Jesus people provide some high

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Speaker 1: octane fuel to Jim Robert's spiritual journey, and he doubles

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Speaker 1: down on his lifelong dedication to religion. He moves out.

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Speaker 1: You'll hear a couple of different stories about this. One

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Speaker 1: story will tell us that he moves to Missoula, Montana

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, and then you'll hear other people say, no,

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Speaker 1: he joined a movement in Colorado. He met a small

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Speaker 1: group of fundamentalist, extremist Christians. So these would be people

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Speaker 1: who recognize a Bible and use it right, read from it,

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Speaker 1: and study it as any other Christian would. Christians in

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Speaker 1: the audience, you know, there are multiple versions and iterations

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Speaker 1: of Bibles, which also we're setting up as a little

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Speaker 1: bit of foreshadowing here. But Roberts began to exert influence

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Speaker 1: on this group. He was not content to be a member.

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Speaker 1: He wanted, you see, to be a leader. And coming

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Speaker 1: out of the Vietnam War, his experience as a marine

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Speaker 1: as a marine sergeant gave him some hardcore, take no

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Speaker 1: poop skills when it came to leadership.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, everything from the stone cold stare at someone

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Speaker 2: when you're having let's say, a theological argument, to keeping

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Speaker 2: someone in line when they're incorrect or when you believe

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Speaker 2: they're incorrect. There are all kinds of things like that.

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Speaker 2: There was a quote that he had a piercing, mesmerizing gaze.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of rasputant esque perhaps, so he would stare

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Speaker 1: people down, he would mentally dominate them, kind of a

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Speaker 1: Darren Brown. Probably a little bit of pickup artistry in there,

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Speaker 1: you know, the same thing that charismatic religious figures will use.

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Speaker 1: And he successfully became the leader of the group. He

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Speaker 1: had also grown to hate the world, the modern world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Remember now this is him coming off of this

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Speaker 2: relationship that didn't work out after he probably saw it

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Speaker 2: as the golden opportunity and his entire life was ahead

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Speaker 2: of him, and he saw it and then it failed.

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Speaker 2: So now he's kind of in a way spiraling into

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Speaker 2: this Like in a way, you could say that, but

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Speaker 2: we're not. You know, you can't ascribe all of this

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Speaker 2: person's actions to this one thing that happened to them,

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Speaker 2: but you can definitely see how it's morphing. Uh, and

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Speaker 2: Roberts realized that, oh my god, the end of the world.

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Speaker 2: It's about to happen. The world is going to end.

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Speaker 2: He felt like his world was ending. He thought he

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Speaker 2: was seeing the signs. You know, there wasn't some date

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Speaker 2: that he told everyone the world is going to end,

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Speaker 2: but you know, he knew it was coming. He could

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Speaker 2: feel it right.

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Speaker 1: He had a divine revelation. It was something where he thought,

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Speaker 1: you people have always said this before, but now I

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Speaker 1: know the end truly is nigh. And this means that

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Speaker 1: we must purify ourselves. We have a very small window

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Speaker 1: of time TikTok TikTok, TikTok TikTok, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: work to do as individuals and as a group. Return

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Speaker 1: to homespun clothes, don't own a car or a house

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Speaker 1: or a bank account, live off the land, end and

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Speaker 1: bear witness or proselytize ofangelize so that other people get

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Speaker 1: the message. It's the only way we can be saved.

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Speaker 1: He planned to drop out of society entirely, and he

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Speaker 1: ordered his followers to do the same. In the decades afterwards,

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Speaker 1: this group traveled widely and separately. If you attended college

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Speaker 1: in the United States, by the way, you might have

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Speaker 1: seen one.

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Speaker 2: Or had a conversation with a small group of people.

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Speaker 1: If they thought you were vulnerable. Right, So, they would

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Speaker 1: scour college campuses looking for the quote called out. These

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Speaker 1: are the people the group believes will join them to

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Speaker 1: escape the imminent looming judgment day. This is the birth

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Speaker 1: of the group that would come to be called the Brethren.

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Speaker 2: And we'll continue to explore that group. After a quick

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Speaker 2: word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Well, old friend, what'd you say, Shall we play the

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Speaker 1: name game with the Brethren?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, let's begin with what they're known as externally

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Speaker 2: to the outside world. Ooh, laid on me, the Jim

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Speaker 2: Roberts Group or the Roberts Group.

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Speaker 1: I get that. That's probably from some law enforcement or

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Speaker 1: cult hunting networks, right yeah.

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Speaker 2: And also the parents of group members. They have a

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Speaker 2: group and they call them the Roberts Group.

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Speaker 1: Internally, we'll hear conflicting things. There will be some ex

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Speaker 1: members or survivors of the group who say that it

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Speaker 1: never has a name. Maybe was referred to as the Church,

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Speaker 1: or they would refer to each other as the Brothers.

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Speaker 1: And sisters, the Body of Christ, the Brethren. But there

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Speaker 1: is another name that has recently surpassed the other names

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Speaker 1: in terms of popularity.

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Speaker 2: The garbage eaters.

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Speaker 1: And you did them, you did some digging on this, Matt.

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Speaker 1: Where did that come from?

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Speaker 2: Well, it comes from their mode of attaining sustenance, at

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Speaker 2: least the groups preferred mode of getting food and water,

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Speaker 2: and that's by either making arrangements with stores that have

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Speaker 2: food that's about to expire and then taking it from them,

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Speaker 2: or just by scavenging, going through dumpsters and dumpster.

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Speaker 1: Diving, right, yeah, dumpster diving.

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Speaker 2: And oh yeah, and it was named this or it

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Speaker 2: was coined to this on an episode of twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: that was discussing the Roberts Group.

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Speaker 1: And they called them garbage eaters.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I believe the host said that name.

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Speaker 1: So that's a little a little hyperbolic, little derogatory.

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Speaker 2: It does not describe in any way the beliefs of

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Speaker 2: the group or what it stands for anything besides the

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Speaker 2: way that they get food.

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Speaker 1: And freakinism. I know, we have a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who've done dumpster diving before in the crowd. Freakidism is

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Speaker 1: not an objectionable thing. Especially when we consider the shear

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Speaker 1: just staggering, tragic and disgusting amount of food waste, things

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Speaker 1: that are thrown out when they're perfectly good and they

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Speaker 1: could be feeding starving people. But yeah, of course we

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Speaker 1: can't legally tell you that that's a good idea to

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Speaker 1: go dumpster diving and live off the wasteful spoils of

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Speaker 1: these supermarkets. But we can tell you that in many

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Speaker 1: places it is against the law. It's trespassing, and some cases,

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Speaker 1: if you don't know what you're doing, you could easily

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Speaker 1: give yourself some sort of food poisoning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but we can say that you can make some

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Speaker 2: kind of arrangement with maybe a local store or something.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you can at least reach out and see

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Speaker 2: what they say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can go to the manager of a store

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day. A lot of places

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Speaker 1: like bakeries have to throw stuff out things like that,

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Speaker 1: So they're living in a very low impact weight and

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Speaker 1: they've been mocked or I guess characterized as somehow vile

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Speaker 1: or repellent because they're doing something with the noblest of intentions,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And it's it's strange that

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Speaker 1: that would be what people latch onto. So we do

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Speaker 1: want to say very clearly, it's not a it's not

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Speaker 1: a cult that worships garbage and eating it. No, I

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Speaker 1: would be fascinated by that. I think you would too.

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Speaker 2: Sure. But but okay, so we know so far, this

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Speaker 2: is what we've established. Jim Roberts is the head of

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Speaker 2: this group that we're let's I guess we'll call them

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Speaker 2: the Brethren, because that's what they're known as internally.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 2: And we know that they scavenge for food. Let's talk

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Speaker 2: about what they believe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what are there actual beliefs? Matt?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So they officially they follow the teachings of the

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Speaker 2: Old and New Testament, so both books major books of

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Speaker 2: the Bible, but it's taught as interpreted by Jim Roberts,

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Speaker 2: the leader, and literal meanings are given to passages in

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Speaker 2: the Holy Writings, and they tell you know, they we

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Speaker 2: go through some of these, right, don't We have some

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Speaker 2: quotes somewhere in here. You'll get into that, like specifically

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Speaker 2: what pieces of scripture are used to develop the group

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Speaker 2: and kind of control the group and maintain it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and as we established earlier, there's not just one

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Speaker 1: Bible you know, there's just one Tora, there's just one Quran.

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Speaker 2: There are different translations, but that doesn't mean the books

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Speaker 2: are different.

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Speaker 1: Right, And then there are when we get to the Bible,

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Speaker 1: you got all you got, all kinds of stuff you

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Speaker 1: got some some have extra books added, some have books

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Speaker 1: taken away. All of these, by the way, are created

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Speaker 1: by people who feel like they're reaching the purest form

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Speaker 1: of it. Yes, and then others will rely on different translations.

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Speaker 1: And this great game of telephone essentially proceeds from the

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Speaker 1: ancient eras to our modern day. And they the Brethren,

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Speaker 1: have a particular version of the Bible that they feel

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Speaker 1: is the best.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and it's the King James version. You might

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Speaker 2: have seen that one coming. It's according to Robert's this

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Speaker 2: translation is the one, and all other translations are corrupt,

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Speaker 2: as well as the beliefs of most other outside Christian

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Speaker 2: organizations besides the Brethren.

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Speaker 1: And it sounds strange at first when we think about

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Speaker 1: the King James version being touted as the purest version

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Speaker 1: of the Bible, because of course, the original books that

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Speaker 1: would later come into the Bible were not written in English. No, right,

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Speaker 1: and the I believe that the King James version is

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Speaker 1: the third English translation improved by English church authorities. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man, Although it sounds crazy, I've heard

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Speaker 1: this reasoning in other rural communities where someone says, well,

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Speaker 1: the King James Bible, and I heard someone say this,

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Speaker 1: Matt is the closest to what Jesus Christ actually said.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was big where I grew up, particularly

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Speaker 2: with members of the Southern Baptist Church, some of those.

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Speaker 1: Which is still do you see what I'm saying? Is

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Speaker 1: still confounds me because when I first heard it, I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ didn't speak English, so what in the purest

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Speaker 1: form of whatever was said be something that occurred in

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Speaker 1: the language and which was spoken and then originally written.

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Speaker 2: Rationally, Absolutely, I would say, in my experience, I did

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Speaker 2: not think about that at the time.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean again, it's a spiritual matter, right, So yes,

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Speaker 1: According to Roberts, the King James version, that's the one,

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Speaker 1: that's the only one except no substitutions.

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Speaker 2: M h.

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to the nature of God, like

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Speaker 1: his mother, Jim Roberts is a staunch anti Trinitarianist, believing

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Speaker 1: that God is not three separate things. Instead, the Brethren

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Speaker 1: are moodalists. They think it's all one thing, one God.

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Speaker 1: But Matt, what exactly is trinitarianism because I feel like

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Speaker 1: we can only get a rough sense of what it

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Speaker 1: is by, say, you know, just by the etymology. It's

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Speaker 1: against threeism. What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Yes, trinitarianism or the trinity doctrine. This is the belief

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Speaker 2: that God exists as three separate but equally important persons.

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Speaker 2: And the word persons is used a lot when describing

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Speaker 2: these separations of God. The only thing is the Father,

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Speaker 2: the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Those three separate things

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Speaker 2: are each made out of the same essence, the same being,

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Speaker 2: the same matter. It's the same thing, it's but at

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Speaker 2: the same time as three separate persons. It's a little

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Speaker 2: weird the way I think about it. Is water. You know,

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Speaker 2: water exists as liquid, gas, and a solid, and it

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Speaker 2: can be that the same water can be each of

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Speaker 2: those three states at any time. But it's still h two. Oh,

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Speaker 2: It's still made of the same exact essence or matter.

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Speaker 2: But then when you get into modalism, this is this

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Speaker 2: one is a bit confusing for me. This is the

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Speaker 2: belief that God is a single being or person that

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Speaker 2: has revealed itself to people in different ways at different

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Speaker 2: times in history. Okay, so when God created the universe,

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Speaker 2: God manifested itself as the Creator. Then when Jesus was

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Speaker 2: born and came down to Earth, it was again the

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Speaker 2: same God, but manifesting itself in a different way.

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Speaker 1: Like an incarnation of sorts kind of.

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Speaker 2: But again when you when you talk about it this way,

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Speaker 2: it seems like it's the exact same belief system.

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Speaker 1: Right, Oh, that they're built of the same substance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely a deep doctrinal point. Yes, But what

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Speaker 1: you're saying about modalism makes me think of the old

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Speaker 1: story of the mice and the elephant, you know, where

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Speaker 1: these tiny mice run into an elephant for the first time,

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Speaker 1: and one hits against its leg and thinks it's discovered

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Speaker 1: a tree. Yes, one hits its nose and thinks it's

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Speaker 1: discovered a snake, and so on, without realizing that this

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Speaker 1: is all a greater, single thing.

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Speaker 2: That's a great point. I just I I kind of

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Speaker 2: don't want to sit in a room and have an

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Speaker 2: argument with somebody who's a trinitarian and a modalist and

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Speaker 2: just have them argue, because I don't think I would

435
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: enjoy that.

436
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: I would watch it, but only if I could have

437
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: snacks and leave whenever I want.

438
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: Okay, totally, totally if.

439
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 1: I would love to hear this doctrinal argument, so long

440
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: as I do have popcorn with like the option for

441
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, what's what's your snack of choice when

442
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: you go to the movies?

443
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: Oh, I bring my own? I don't.

444
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: I mean, matt we can't legally tell people to do that.

445
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: I don't do that. I just don't go to the

446
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: movies anymore.

447
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, you are a man of principle, my friend.

448
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of principles, yes, let's get into the key scriptures. Yeah,

449
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 2: the Brethren uses.

450
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: There are several key lines of scripture guiding the Brethren.

451
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: One is from Luke fourteen thirty three. So likewise, whosoever

452
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: he be of you, that forsaketh not all he hath,

453
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: he cannot be my disciple. It's a literal interpretation. If

454
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: you don't give up everything, you're screwing up already from

455
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: the jump. And then there's Matthew as well.

456
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: Right, I'll read Matthew there we go nineteen twenty nine

457
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 2: and says, and everyone that hath forsaken houses or brethren

458
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 2: or sisters, or father or mother or wife, or children

459
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: or lands. For my name's sake, shall receive an one

460
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: hundredfold and shall inherit everlasting life. So if you give

461
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: up everything, you forsake, all the people in your life,

462
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: all the stuff in your life, you're going to live forever,

463
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: at least in a way. Tight.

464
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: Yep, No, seriously, I think that that sounds like a

465
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: cool promise, right, if that's a real thing.

466
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're the loco. You're giving up.

467
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're inheriting everlasting life away from everything you love, well,

468
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: away from your worldly loves. Okay, Right, that's the idea,

469
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: is that your real family is going to reward you.

470
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: Your real family being God and your proximity to God.

471
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: There are a few more you can look up and

472
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: read to yourself, such as Acts four thirty two, Matthew

473
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: six twenty five. They're big Matthew fans. I mean, who

474
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: is it? I'm I'm a Matthew fan.

475
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: Parents in the eighties were huge Matthew fans. There we go.

476
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: What else do we have?

477
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 2: Mark eight thirty five and two, Timothy six seven and eight,

478
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: And we'll just read that one really quickly, for we

479
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we

480
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: can carry nothing out and having food and raiment, let

481
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 2: us be therewith content.

482
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: As we mentioned before, there are no metaphors in this church.

483
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: In this group, all of these things are literal interpretations,

484
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: and they have a rigid, one would say, militaristic hierarchy.

485
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: The members of the group are put into smaller groups,

486
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: subgroups cells, in other words, similar to the organizational principles

487
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: used by some terrorist groups. And they are small, they

488
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: are nomadic. They might squat in a house, they might

489
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: find a cabin, they might camp in the woods. They

490
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: can range in size. It can be just one person

491
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: sent to a city or area as a scout, as

492
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: a harbinger of sorts, or it can be as many

493
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:20,959
Speaker 1: as fifteen people.

494
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are stories of groups that will find a

495
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: house that's abandoned and then actually, rather than just squatting

496
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: per se, just being in that house while there's no

497
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: one living there, making an arrangement with the property owner

498
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: to clean the house, to keep the the yard and

499
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: everything spick and span and looking nice, but be able

500
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: to live.

501
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: There, which sounds kind of cool if you're a if

502
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: you're a landowner and you're aware of these folks. They

503
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: seem like pretty cleaned up people. They're not out doing drugs, right,

504
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: They're not going to be committee crazy, heinous criminal acts

505
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: on your property.

506
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: I could see it being really troublesome though, because if

507
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: you've got a house that's either abandoned or maybe just

508
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: no one has rented for a long time, and then

509
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: you have someone a tenant like that in your home,

510
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: and then let's say somebody is interested in renting that

511
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: home or buying that home, you can't just kick him out.

512
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: There's some very complicated rules and laws having to do

513
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: with that.

514
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: Oh he squatters, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. They kick in

515
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,479
Speaker 1: at various times, depending on the state or the country

516
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: you're in. So when and where these groups move is

517
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: ultimately going to be up to the Brother Evangelist Jim Roberts,

518
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: who's known as Brother Evangelists. He's the elder of Elders now,

519
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: which is important to the group. The membership of these

520
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: groups always changes. So let's say you, Paul, and I

521
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: were a three man unit and we were sent out

522
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: to maybe scout for a place in New Orleans or

523
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: near New Orleans, right, and then well, I'd say we

524
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: hung out. We were we just got too cool with

525
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: each other. We said, you know, well this has been

526
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: a fun ride, but maybe we should just stay in

527
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: New Orleans, you know, start a band, I play the

528
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: obo or something whatever we play in that situation, Well,

529
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: that would damage the overall group and as a result,

530
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: the membership of these groups, these subgroups, these cells changes frequently,

531
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: and they're sent in different directions to prevent them from

532
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: getting any kind of relationship, whether a friendship is something

533
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: like a collegiate thing or even a romantic thing, to

534
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: prevent that from ever becoming a competing focus. Right, and

535
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: it's a very effective way to control people. The additional

536
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: control system for every cell is what's called the elder.

537
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: Yes, this is the person who has been in the

538
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: group the longest. It's not we're not talking to elders

539
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 2: as in the oldest alive person. We're talking about the

540
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: oldest member of the.

541
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: Group, right right, the oldest in terms of if we

542
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: count them joining the church, yes, like day one.

543
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely absolutely. And then an elder is placed in

544
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 2: charge of each group or sell or camp, whatever you

545
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: want to call it. And these elders then as these

546
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 2: cells function take orders directly from Roberts.

547
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: Yes, and there are. They're not going to be questioned

548
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: by the people who are beneath them. No, they're just

549
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: going to jump when they're told to jump. Because Brother

550
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: Evangelist Roberts, he did to change his name to Evangelists.

551
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: By the way, he has the first and last word

552
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: on any and all issues, questions, declarations, and decisions. Furthermore,

553
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: they have stark gender division with prescribed duties for each

554
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: person based on Oh, and we should go ahead and

555
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: say they only have the two genders. Yeah, it's only

556
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: male or female. And and what kind of stuff are

557
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: they required to do?

558
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: Well, let's say you're a brother of the Brethren. You're

559
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 2: gonna need to gather all the food. You're gonna have

560
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: to protect the sisters physically, you're gonna have to witness

561
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 2: to people wherever you travel. And then if you're a sister,

562
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to cook and clean and sew and

563
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: serve all the meals to the brothers, and on top

564
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 2: of that, witness. So everybody's got a full plate here

565
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: of things to do. The big issue here is that

566
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: women are subservient to the brothers. And you know that

567
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: is a biblical thing. If you're taking the Bible literally,

568
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 2: that is one thing that you will find in there. Unfortunately.

569
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: But here's the weird thing for a group of this kind,

570
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: in my opinion, the weird thing there is, according to

571
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: the Parents Network, there is no sexual or intimate physical

572
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 2: relationship of any kind between these members, the male and

573
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 2: female members of the.

574
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: Brethren, not even for the purposes of procreation.

575
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: No, just they are I don't know, they're brothers and

576
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 2: sisters literally anyway.

577
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: Right, soldiers for their cause. The one common task for

578
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: both genders in this group is to witness, in other words,

579
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: to evangelize. And that's a little bit about how they

580
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: interact with one another. But we have to get to

581
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: the biggest question, which is this how do they interact

582
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: with the rest of the world.

583
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 2: And we'll get to that right after a word from

584
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 2: our sponsor.

585
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. It's the end of the

586
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: world as we know it, according to the Brethren. And

587
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: while there is a certain allure to the idea of

588
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: shucking off all these social constraints and living as a

589
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: wandering as setic or a monk, or a none of sorts,

590
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: survivors of the group and the relatives describe it as

591
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: much less romantic than we might believe, much more oriented

592
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: toward the belief in a coming apocalypse, right, and much

593
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: more rigid than outsiders may be initially led to think.

594
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about their recruitment tactic,

595
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: or we mentioned it, but let's dive in. Let's dive

596
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: in because I think longtime listeners are going to recognize

597
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: some of these tactics from earlier works. Right. Yes, So,

598
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: one of their big recruitment tactic of quote unquote calling

599
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: out people, finding lonely, vulnerable college aged individuals and converting

600
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: them works as both the carrot and a stick in

601
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: a very a very smart and somewhat subtle way, because

602
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: the carrot is hello, welcome, this is the one true church.

603
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: We are doing the literal work of God, and you

604
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: can be part of this community, the only one that

605
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: will survive Judgment Day, the only one. And along the

606
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: way you will experience such freedom as you've never felt before,

607
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: a freedom from all financial encumbrance and material goods.

608
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: And if you don't go for that, you get the stick.

609
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: What's the stick?

610
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 2: Oh? You remember that thing? Judgment Day? Oh? Yeah, where

611
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 2: everything burns and becomes just charcoal on everywhere. Well about that,

612
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: everybody else on the planet, every other human that you've

613
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: ever met, that has ever existed, they are damned and

614
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: they've well here's why they've turned away from the true

615
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: church obviously.

616
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: Even mom and dad.

617
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, even mom and dad. They didn't accept the carrot.

618
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 2: So they're you know, they're going to hell. This is

619
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: literally the first and last chance. This right here, me

620
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 2: coming to you and talking to you about my thing.

621
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 2: This is the last chance you get before just fire.

622
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna go to biology one o one,

623
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: but now I'm freaked out.

624
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: You're gonna go to biology? Why do you what are

625
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 2: you gonna What are you gonna study in biology?

626
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: I was gonna be a doctor.

627
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: Oh, I'd recommend chemistry because all you're gonna have is carbon.

628
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: That's all it's gonna be here, just carbon.

629
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: Uh. And at this point, I guess the prison, say,

630
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: and you've convinced me. Yeah, away with these Adidas that

631
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: I'm wearing, away with this book of biology. There's only

632
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: one book I need, right, That's that's how it would happen.

633
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: It's this King James.

634
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: It's this King James specifically accept no substitutions. What's fascinating

635
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: about this carrot and this stick is it sets the

636
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 1: first precedent for interaction between the initiates and existing group members,

637
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: whether they're brothers or sisters, or elders or what have you,

638
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: because it puts forth a dichotomy and for the rest

639
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: of their lives, if they're in this church, there is

640
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: no gray area. There is only the black white yes, no, follow,

641
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: don't follow, salvation or damnation for every decision, which is

642
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: amazing and terrifying. Yeah. And additionally, as you said, Matt,

643
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: the inner hierarchy of the church is absolutists. They're determined

644
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: entirely by when someone joined and how long they've been

645
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: a member of the group. We found a pretty pretty

646
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: interesting crowdsourced interview from a survivor who wished to remain anonymous,

647
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: and he said, if you joined the church one week

648
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: before someone else, you had to quote obey that dude

649
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: as if if he was a servant of God that

650
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: was sent to be your elder. The women that were

651
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: in the group for twenty years were to be subject

652
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,479
Speaker 1: and obedient to a brother that was there for only

653
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: a year. Young women were subject to everyone.

654
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: One thing that comes to mind is that there was

655
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: a seventeen year old boy that was an elder according

656
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: to the length of time that he was in the church,

657
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: which was all of his life, so members must be

658
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: totally subject to him, even forty year olds. If you

659
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 2: were a fifty year old and joined eight years ago,

660
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 2: you were subject to anything that seventeen year old said,

661
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: unless it was super unreasonable, like told to do some

662
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: atrocious act.

663
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 1: Right right, or told to do something physically impossible. Yes,

664
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: grow another hand, No, out of your butt. Oh you know,

665
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 1: I hopefully this kid wasn't say that sort of stuff.

666
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's entirely time based. I don't sorry, man,

667
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: I just I went blue.

668
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: I went to blue joke. Okay, hey, I'm with you.

669
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 2: I'm trying it just and this is not working. Okay, No,

670
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: please don't try. No one listening to attempt that.

671
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: So that's that internal communication is troubling communication with family

672
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: and or authorities. This is where we find the really

673
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: sticky stuff and the most direct stuff they don't want

674
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: you to know. In regards to this organization, whether you

675
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: want to call it a church, whether you want to

676
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: call it a spiritual movement, whether you want to call

677
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: it a cult. They do not want you to know

678
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: where they are going, what they're doing, or why. They

679
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: have been told that they must abjure, hate, and loathe

680
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: everything from their past life. Their life started over when

681
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 1: they joined the church.

682
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no contact with family members who are outside

683
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 2: of the structure whatsoever at all, unless, of course jim himself,

684
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 2: old Jimmy says hey, you can talk to these guys,

685
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 2: and if he says it's okay, then it's okay. But

686
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: the majority of the time, just parents, siblings, friends, the

687
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: rest of the family. They're just completely locked out of

688
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 2: the lives of the members of the.

689
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: Brethren, right, and it can happen suddenly. You can reaccount

690
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: detailing how Roberts would instruct people to isolate themselves or

691
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: to maintain contact.

692
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 2: And write a letter to their parents. That's one of

693
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 2: the first things they did. Write a letter and say, hey, sorry,

694
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 2: can't be in your life anymore.

695
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: Right, and I don't want you to be all gloried

696
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: to God. You know this is consensual on my part.

697
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: That's what their letter says, and for it to be

698
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: sent in root while they are traveling by bike or

699
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: by bus often or occasionally by train hopping. I think

700
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: a few still do that. And additionally, we have to

701
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: mention several of these these people who are joining this

702
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: movement or we're joining it, are not necessarily on the

703
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: fringes of society. We're talking about the owners of multimillion

704
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: dollar businesses. We're talking about people who were attending Harvard, which,

705
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: from what you may have heard, is an okay school,

706
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: and they're throwing away all their worldly possessions to join

707
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,439
Speaker 1: this thing. They're throwing away their relationships, and they are

708
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: chastised if they attempt to reach out to their parents.

709
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: And you can see or their parents or their spouse

710
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: or whomever, and you can see the way that this

711
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: splinters the group. But you can also just imagine if

712
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 1: you don't have access to a cell phone, you don't

713
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 1: have access to an internet connection unless you go into

714
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: a library, right or unless you find a quarter for

715
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: a payphone. You can use a payphone if you can

716
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: find one. In twenty eighteen, that's the only way you

717
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: can communicate. I guess you could also in the letter,

718
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: but you can't wait around for that letter to return

719
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 1: because you don't know when your leader will tell you

720
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: to move somewhere else. You don't know where they're going

721
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 1: to just tell you to move.

722
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 2: It's complete speculation. But I imagine if word got to Roberts

723
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: that you had sent a letter of any kind to

724
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: someone in any way, you might get a notice to

725
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: get on the move, just because that idea of you've

726
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 2: got a a from address. You know there's a return

727
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: address on there, and that could you could give up

728
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: the whole cell. Ugh awful to think about it that way.

729
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: But you could. It's just so easy to use a

730
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: fake address. Yeah, just write down the name of a

731
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: building in the zip code where you happy to be

732
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: mailing the letter from.

733
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: Yes, but when you mail the letter from that zip code,

734
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: it's going through the postal services or however you got

735
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 2: it there right system, and you're you know, you can

736
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: at least get a rough area of where it came from.

737
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,919
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. But who doesn't love getting mail?

738
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: Also in this stage, I feel like I have to

739
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: point that out. You can always send us mail, by

740
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: the way, if you wish. And that's a little bit

741
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: of levity because we're going into some dark territory here.

742
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: Discussion with outsiders is only allowed to the extent that

743
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: it encourages more people to join the group, or that

744
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: it attends to a need of the existing group. Discussion

745
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: internally the way that we would understand discussion is not

746
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: allowed at all, verboten, the Germans would say, similar to

747
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: the Marines. Oddly enough, the Brethren follow a strict chain

748
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: of command wherein contradictions are not only not allowed, they

749
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: do not exist.

750
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 2: They're impossible.

751
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: They are impossible. It's bad double plus on good.

752
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

753
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: Due to the eminent approach of the end of day,

754
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: single members are banned from marrying, as, according to Roberts,

755
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: there's not enough time. In other words, members are supposed

756
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 1: to dedicate themselves entirely, just spreading the message of the church.

757
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: Couples with children were allowed to join back in the day,

758
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: but the rules for those kids were incredibly strict, including

759
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: get this, a ban on playing, which is just disastrous

760
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: to me.

761
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the way you become a human. So you play.

762
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 1: And the bulk of their conversation is conducted through payphones

763
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: only they we don't know. In the modern day, for

764
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 1: whichever members of the Brethren are out there, we still

765
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: don't know if they're using burner.

766
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: Phones not as effective anymore as concealing for concealing your location. Absolutely,

767
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 2: they still work.

768
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: That still work. You know, it's still better than buying

769
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: a cell phone service plan. Yes, when you have renounced

770
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: all worldly possessions.

771
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess the cell phone is a worldly possession.

772
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, but so we're closed, right.

773
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 2: But they make those.

774
00:46:58,239 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 1: Do you think they can make cell phones?

775
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: Maybe if they make.

776
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: Self this changes everything for me. I might think they're

777
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: I would just be impressed by the magiverishness of it.

778
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough to dumpster dive for all those rare

779
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 2: earth minerals. But maybe I don't know, who knows. Maybe

780
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: the recycling program for electronics. M There you go.

781
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: So in the darker realm, here we see the allegations

782
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: of abuse. The good news is that they're not allegations

783
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 1: that we can find of sexual abuse, other than forcing

784
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: people to ignore their own sexuality, right, which is a

785
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: form of abuse. The big thing we found was emotional abuse.

786
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 1: Members are held hostage to this group by the fundamental

787
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 1: belief that leaving the Brethren is tantamount to committing suicide.

788
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: It's actually worse than committing physical suicide, because you are

789
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 1: sacrificing your soul Yeah, the real thing that matters, and

790
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: when members are suspected of straining off the path, they

791
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: are harshly warned. They're probably putting a new cell with

792
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: strangers or people they don't know very well. And if

793
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: they are ex members, they are completely and successfully shunned

794
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 1: because you know, like the practice you've probably read about

795
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: with the Amish or maybe some other groups, this group

796
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: will as a community, as a unit, ghost on its

797
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: x members and they're very very very good at hiding.

798
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: At least, you know, they don't sue the pants off

799
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 2: of them they're ex members the way some other conversations

800
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 2: you know have anyway, Laaran, Yeah, that's what it is,

801
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: Lauren Hubbish, Yep, I'm almost there.

802
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: Who is it?

803
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 2: I can't think of it. All I know. All I

804
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: know is that when it comes to going to the

805
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 2: doctor or getting medicine any kind of prescription, there is

806
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,720
Speaker 2: some weird stuff going on with the Brethren.

807
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. The second the second tier or type of abuse

808
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: would be negligence in terms of medical treatment. You see,

809
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: the Brethren believe that the use of medicine and doctors

810
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: does not give the example of living by faith. That's

811
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: a quote. So in some cases members are believed to

812
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: have died from curable conditions or injuries due entirely to

813
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: the group's opposition to modern medical treatment or any medical treatment.

814
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,919
Speaker 1: So for anyone wondering why we're using the phrase are

815
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 1: believed to have, Yes, it's because again a lot of

816
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: people go off the grid. And like we discussed in

817
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: our Missing for one one episodes a couple of other things,

818
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: it is still in the age of GPS and spookily

819
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: sophisticated satellites. It is still possible to disappear in this country,

820
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: easier in fact than you might think.

821
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 2: Certainly and disturbingly so. Correct.

822
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: But they have found some people, right.

823
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 2: Yes, they have, and some people have come forward. Some

824
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 2: We found a Reddit thread where people were discussing this

825
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 2: group and a couple of people saying that they were

826
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 2: for members. It's out there and you can get out.

827
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 2: And that's the big thing. I don't know how you

828
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 2: would be listening to this if you are a member.

829
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 2: It's much more likely that family members of someone who

830
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,760
Speaker 2: became a part of Brethren is actually listening to these words.

831
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 2: And let's take a moment in describe perhaps what you

832
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 2: can do. The first thing that we found when we

833
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 2: were looking into. This is something called the Roberts Group

834
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 2: Parents Network, and it has a website n FI sh

835
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 2: e l dot tripod dot com. It's an old Tripod website.

836
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 2: It's pretty great though, if you go through there. The

837
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 2: mission of the website says in the group is to

838
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 2: release the members of the control of the Roberts Group

839
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 2: and establish two way communication and an open and loving

840
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 2: relationship between members and their families. So they just want

841
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 2: to reconnect family members with members of the Roberts Group, right,

842
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 2: And it goes on to say that if you recognize

843
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 2: anyone on these pages, or if you suspect your loved

844
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 2: one is a part of the Roberts Group, we empathize

845
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 2: with you. We know the pain you feel and deeply

846
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 2: regret that you share our situation. On the other hand,

847
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: we'd like to welcome you into our fellowship. We've been

848
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 2: brought together from all parts of the country by our

849
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 2: common loss. Our sorrow is the same. In supporting each other,

850
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 2: we find new strength to make it through one day

851
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 2: at a time and the new hope that we'll be

852
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 2: re united with the loved ones that were taken from

853
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 2: our lives. So really, I mean it's a sobering thing

854
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 2: to go through that website because it describes exactly the

855
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: types of people that are usually joining this group. It

856
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: talks about in full the scriptures, it talks about how

857
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 2: the recruiting occurs, and there are even letters there written

858
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 2: to the sons and daughters of people who have joined

859
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 2: the group and chosen to leave their family behind. I

860
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: would say this is probably a good group to join

861
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: if you are dealing with something like this. If you

862
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 2: don't like to join groups, maybe don't do that. If

863
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 2: you're suspicious of all groups now at this point I

864
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 2: can I would understand that. However, this is one to

865
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 2: at least look at.

866
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, said Matt and agreed. And currently this brings

867
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: us up to speed on the background and the nature

868
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: of the very very secretive group traveling off the grid

869
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: entirely here in the US and possibly in Canada and

870
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: Mexico at times known as the Brethren or thanks to

871
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, the garbage Eaters. We do have one last

872
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: piece of news here in conclusion, Brother evangelist Jim Roberts

873
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: passed away at the age of seventy six in twenty fifteen,

874
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: likely due to cancer. He had not seen a doctor

875
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 1: in forty years who was practicing what he preached, and

876
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: he had been alternately described as a sweet and harmless

877
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: man or a quote paranoid megalomaniac who wanted to control

878
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:53,439
Speaker 1: every aspect of his followers' lives. As of a few

879
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,919
Speaker 1: years ago, the population of the group, which was never

880
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: super super large, had reduced to around sixty or so men.

881
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: Are they still out there today riding the rails somewhere?

882
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: Is there still someone who wants to contact their loved

883
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: ones and people from the life they left behind, but

884
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: are too intimidated to do so. These are open questions.

885
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: We do not know the answer, and there are very

886
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: few people who do. Many of those who do know

887
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 1: the answer don't want to be found.

888
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know where we go from here, Ben.

889
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 2: Besides just saying, beliefs are tricky things. They can be

890
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 2: like viruses sometimes.

891
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 1: And they function almost exactly like viruses. A good belief

892
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: can spread and infect and reproduce itself in the minds

893
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: of others, which is a beautiful thing and a terrifying thing.

894
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: And one of the most important parts of this show

895
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: that we have to touch on here is the following.

896
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: If you are or someone you know is involved in

897
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: a cult like group, or let's say, if we don't

898
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: want to use the C word, let's say an organization

899
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: that is forcing them to do things against their will

900
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: and isolating them. And you're starting to see some of

901
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: these red flags. Do not be afraid to reach out

902
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 1: to groups like the Jim Roberts parent group that you mentioned, Matt.

903
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to call someone for advice or look

904
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: on forums. The resources are there. And many times it

905
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 1: sounds easy to say, oh, there's nothing physically keeping someone

906
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: in a spot, but we must remember that the heaviest,

907
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 1: strongest chains we have ever put on a human being

908
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: are always chains of ideas, not chains of steel or iron,

909
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: and the chains that exists in your mind and sometimes

910
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: you need help to be free of them.

911
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 2: You can find Ben and Nolan I on Twitter where

912
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 2: we're conspiracy Stuff, the same on Facebook. On Instagram we

913
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 2: are a conspiracy stuff show. We have a website stuff

914
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:11,959
Speaker 2: they don't want you to know where you can find

915
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 2: every podcast we've ever made and some videos and other

916
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 2: stuff on there. And that's the end of this classic episode.

917
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 2: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,

918
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: you can get into contact with us in a number

919
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 2: of different ways. One of the best is to give

920
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 2: us a call. Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK.

921
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 2: If you don't want to do that, you can send

922
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email.

923
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

924
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

925
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

926
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,800
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.