Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining me for session three ninety nine of the
Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation
Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. Relationships and freedom can
Speaker 1: they truly coexist? This episode from our archives revisits a
Speaker 1: powerful discussion sparked by a question from our community, how
Speaker 1: do you navigate the idea of losing some of your
Speaker 1: freedom in a relationship? In this episode, I'm joined by
Speaker 1: doctor Maria de Menuez, LMFT, also known as doctor D. Together,
Speaker 1: we unpack what it means to navigate freedom and relationships,
Speaker 1: how to define what freedom looks like for you and
Speaker 1: the key conversations to have while dating that can provide clarity.
Speaker 1: We also explored how to build a relationship culture that
Speaker 1: evolves with the many changes you and your partner will
Speaker 1: experience over time. If something resonates with you while enjoying
Speaker 1: our conversation, please share with us on social media using
Speaker 1: the hash TVG in session. Here's our conversation. Well, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today, doctor Dominguez.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I am so excited to
Speaker 2: be here. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we have been having a very riveting, I would say,
Speaker 1: conversation over in the Instagram comments. So we posted a
Speaker 1: question last week, and our new features help us a
Speaker 1: start out, and that's where audience or community members can
Speaker 1: kind of submit a question or a topic they want
Speaker 1: to discuss with the collective and have people weigh in
Speaker 1: on it. And so one of the questions last week
Speaker 1: was about how do you maintain your sense of freedom
Speaker 1: while being in a relationship.
Speaker 3: And needless to.
Speaker 1: Say, the comments section has been jumping and so you
Speaker 1: shared beautifully, which is why I wanted you to come
Speaker 1: on the podcast to talk more about this, because it
Speaker 1: definitely feels like something is happening right that people are
Speaker 1: feeling that were at least a lot of people who
Speaker 1: commented or feeling that their sense of freedom is in
Speaker 1: some way threatened by the possibility of being in a relationship.
Speaker 1: So I just want to hear your thoughts on what
Speaker 1: you kind of think maybe shaping this kind of of
Speaker 1: a conversation and narrative that people are holding on to.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. First, I'll share from my own personal, individual perspective,
Speaker 2: and then I'll go out And what I shared in
Speaker 2: the comments was my own experience, right because I am
Speaker 2: in a relationship. I've been married for nine years and
Speaker 2: we've known each other since high school, so it's like
Speaker 2: a fifteen year marriage. And I was sharing about how throughout,
Speaker 2: you know, through those fifteen years, you do a lot
Speaker 2: of changing, Like I'm definitely not the same sixteen year
Speaker 2: old or seventeen year old that met him, and through
Speaker 2: those years, like different changes come and the response to
Speaker 2: those changes differ. Some of those changes were welcomed, you know,
Speaker 2: it was welcome with open arms, and like yes, other
Speaker 2: of those changes got decided like where is this coming from?
Speaker 2: You know, who are you? And so for myself, one
Speaker 2: thing that I realize I got confused with this whole
Speaker 2: idea of freedom was expecting or kind of anticipating the
Speaker 2: person's support to be necessary for me to move forward
Speaker 2: with that. And so what liberated me and my process
Speaker 2: was realizing, like, the reason we even work is because
Speaker 2: we compliment each other, and we compliment each other because
Speaker 2: we're different people, we have different perspectives, and at times
Speaker 2: that's exactly what I need. At other times, like I
Speaker 2: want us to be working in unison, but sometimes I
Speaker 2: like using the metaphor of like being singing in unison
Speaker 2: versus singing in harmony, And sometimes that harmony is so
Speaker 2: much more beautiful. But to have that harmony, you do
Speaker 2: need to learn how to marry that difference together. And
Speaker 2: so understanding that when I do not receive the support
Speaker 2: that I want or that I long for or that
Speaker 2: I anticipate, it is up to me to know how
Speaker 2: who look inward and understand, Okay, why do I want
Speaker 2: to do this? Why do I feel so strongly? What
Speaker 2: is it that you know my intuition is guiding me
Speaker 2: to do? And how can I do it? How can
Speaker 2: I encourage myself? How can I support myself even if
Speaker 2: I'm not getting that support need met by this particular person.
Speaker 2: You know, I can reach out and have that met
Speaker 2: by a family member or by a friend, or by
Speaker 2: someone in my spiritual community. And so that's kind of
Speaker 2: what was really important for me at that individual level.
Speaker 2: And yeah, my understanding of freedom and a relationship and
Speaker 2: a lot of people seeing the resonate with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I love this whole part of
Speaker 1: you kind of turning internally right and kind of reflecting
Speaker 1: for yourself, like, Okay, what is it that I am
Speaker 1: looking for? And so I'm wondering, you know, what can
Speaker 1: you share with maybe other people about.
Speaker 3: How to do that internal process?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so I for myself and I know a
Speaker 2: lot of other people. Journaling is big, and journaling in
Speaker 2: the way in which you're asking yourself questions. Because when
Speaker 2: you ask yourself a question, just the way a brain
Speaker 2: is wired, like, it automatically starts creating some kind of solution.
Speaker 2: And when we're writing it out or whether you're doing
Speaker 2: a video journal or audio journal, like, then your brain,
Speaker 2: you know, it tries to put the pieces together and
Speaker 2: it usually brings some kind of revelation to you. And
Speaker 2: so writing has been very important in my healing and
Speaker 2: liberating process. But I know for other people that I've
Speaker 2: worked with or I speak with, using music or using
Speaker 2: some kind of creative process to express what it is
Speaker 2: that they're feeling or going through really helps them to
Speaker 2: be able to uncover that. But it's about like recognizing
Speaker 2: and sitting with whatever it is you're feeling. So if
Speaker 2: you're feeling that, like that discomfort of I'm feeling trapped
Speaker 2: or I'm feeling contrained, like, don't brush it off. I
Speaker 2: know for myself sometimes in the past I would just
Speaker 2: be like, well, you know, that's Mary Vife for you. No,
Speaker 2: not necessarily, it doesn't have to be that way. So
Speaker 2: where is this coming from? What is it that I'm
Speaker 2: feeling uncomfortable? And really discovering that and bringing that to
Speaker 2: the surface, because once you understand what the core is,
Speaker 2: then you could deal with it so much more effectively.
Speaker 1: So I would imagine that there may be some people
Speaker 1: listening who are thinking, whoa is this how I'm feeling? Like?
Speaker 3: Am I feeling like my freedom is being threatened?
Speaker 1: So can you give us some ideas about like how
Speaker 1: would you even know if this is something that you're
Speaker 1: struggling with.
Speaker 2: Resentment is a very good warning sign. So if you're
Speaker 2: starting to feel resentment, then that that's probably a sign that, yeah,
Speaker 2: that there might be some some feelings of a loss
Speaker 2: of freedom there.
Speaker 3: Got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that resentment I think can speak to a
Speaker 1: lot of different things, right, Like I think we've even
Speaker 1: talked about on the podcast how that resentment is a
Speaker 1: warning sign of like a needing to tighten up on
Speaker 1: boundary are you know, lots of different things kind of
Speaker 1: pop up as resentment. So I definitely agree that you're
Speaker 1: feeling resentment. There's a need to kind of look at
Speaker 1: what's happening there.
Speaker 2: Yes, And then those feelings we touched on it a
Speaker 2: little bit earlier of like of being tracked or even
Speaker 2: the idea that another person being involved then means that
Speaker 2: you somehow have a little bit less power or a
Speaker 2: little bit less privilege. And that's not necessarily the case
Speaker 2: unless we allow it to be so.
Speaker 1: And so I'm wondering if there are any kinds of
Speaker 1: things that you can be on the lookout for, or
Speaker 1: are there questions that you can ask maybe in the
Speaker 1: dating relationship that will kind of give you a sign
Speaker 1: about what this might look like in a long term
Speaker 1: relationship between you and someone else.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question, and I definitely think that
Speaker 2: both of you talking about what your expectations are right.
Speaker 2: And so I remember someone in the comments was talking
Speaker 2: about what does that freedom actually mean? Does it mean
Speaker 2: that you want to go out and stay out late?
Speaker 2: Does it mean that you want to do this? Want
Speaker 2: to do that? So, like in the dating relationship, have
Speaker 2: clear expectations, Like a lot of the times when I'm
Speaker 2: doing my couple's therapy, it's that mismatch of expectations that
Speaker 2: was never discussed earlier on in the relationship that presents
Speaker 2: itself later on. So expectations about what's appropriate or inappropriate
Speaker 2: when it comes to building relationships with people of other sexes,
Speaker 2: or what they believe to be inappropriate when it comes
Speaker 2: to what's forgivable or what's not forgivable, or when divorce
Speaker 2: can be put on the table or not put on
Speaker 2: the table, or all of these things. Even money, what's appropriate?
Speaker 2: How involved are we going to be in each other's finances?
Speaker 2: Like all of these things and expectations. A lot of
Speaker 2: the times we just assume that our partner thinks the
Speaker 2: way that we do, and it's not until we're confronted
Speaker 2: with that difference then we realize there's a totally different
Speaker 2: way of looking at this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think a lot of that pre work
Speaker 1: is really important because there are some things that you
Speaker 1: just don't even imagine will come up in partnership and
Speaker 1: you're like, whoa, where did that come from? And it
Speaker 1: kind of comes from, you know, not discussing some of
Speaker 1: these really important topics that I think are important to
Speaker 1: talk about kind of early on in a partnership.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I like the idea of even discussing, like,
Speaker 2: what is this evolution going to look like? Because sometimes
Speaker 2: people expect that how this relationship started, this is how
Speaker 2: it's going to look like for the next ten, fifteen, twenty,
Speaker 2: twenty plus years, and taking into account and maybe even
Speaker 2: you know, discussing with each other like what does that
Speaker 2: change look like? And how are we going to nurture
Speaker 2: support or not when those changes come up, because we
Speaker 2: do change over the years, and how do we meet
Speaker 2: our partners still lovingly and embracing those.
Speaker 4: Changes more from our conversation after the break.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And I want to dig into that a
Speaker 1: little bit more, doctor D because I feel like that
Speaker 1: is really hard, especially when we ourselves don't always know
Speaker 1: how we're going to change, like in the next ten years, right,
Speaker 1: Like things happen, your interest change, and you know, so
Speaker 1: the commitment that you made early on in the partnership
Speaker 1: may look very different ten years in, right, And so
Speaker 1: how do you navigate that?
Speaker 3: Cause?
Speaker 1: I feel like in some ways, like some changes are small, right,
Speaker 1: like you change your hair.
Speaker 3: Or you know, something like pretty simple.
Speaker 1: But then there are other changes like you know, you
Speaker 1: taking a job that requires you to travel a whole
Speaker 1: bunch when you didn't used to, or you know, like
Speaker 1: changes that really impact.
Speaker 3: The family unit in bigger ways.
Speaker 1: And so how do you have those kinds of conversations
Speaker 1: and creative partnership that allows for both people to change
Speaker 1: in those ways?
Speaker 2: That is? That is such a powerful question. I face
Speaker 2: with that question a lot, especially because of the population
Speaker 2: of people I work with and live with as a
Speaker 2: military spouse. Often a lot of those changes occur because
Speaker 2: it's part of the job, right. A lot of our
Speaker 2: service members are forced to go through a lot of transitions.
Speaker 2: They experience and witness a lot of trauma, and there's
Speaker 2: a lot of isolation and loss of support systems building
Speaker 2: up a network. But then you know, being moved to
Speaker 2: another one, and there is a lot of that sense
Speaker 2: of a loss of freedom because you know, you might
Speaker 2: have to throw your five year plan out the window,
Speaker 2: like you have no idea where you'll be living five
Speaker 2: years from now, or things like that and so and
Speaker 2: the ways in which we change and we grow up
Speaker 2: or we may say stuff when we do experience traumatic
Speaker 2: events that has an impact on our personality as well.
Speaker 2: And what I found from working with military families, also
Speaker 2: working with families that go through a lot of transition,
Speaker 2: a lot of spouses of business women, men and women
Speaker 2: that need to travel a lot, and they stay home,
Speaker 2: or they may have chosen to put their career on
Speaker 2: hold while they take care of the children while their
Speaker 2: partners traveling all of those things. Then all of these
Speaker 2: couples have to look at each other and figure out
Speaker 2: what is still tying us all of these changes happen,
Speaker 2: we change ourselves, but how do we still stay connected?
Speaker 2: And that answer looks very different for every couple, But
Speaker 2: like figuring out, like what is our bond based on
Speaker 2: and then having that acceptance that many of these other
Speaker 2: things will change, But like our commitment to these vows,
Speaker 2: or our spiritual connection or our attachment bond to each
Speaker 2: other or our love for this is always going to
Speaker 2: remain and I've seen that a lot of couples have
Speaker 2: found that to be what they hold on to and
Speaker 2: be able to cope with a lot of these other
Speaker 2: changes in our personalities as a result of you know,
Speaker 2: what life throws at us.
Speaker 1: So I think something else that happens, and you often
Speaker 1: hear this whole expression of oh, she lost herself in
Speaker 1: the relationship. Oh yeah, right, So I want to touch
Speaker 1: on that a little bit and kind of talk through
Speaker 1: like how that happens and what that looks like, because
Speaker 1: I think that that can be something that contributes to
Speaker 1: this waking up one days realizing like, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: like who am I in this relationship? So can you
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about like maybe if you had
Speaker 1: a client who came in and said, you know, five
Speaker 1: years into this relationship and I'm realizing, I don't know
Speaker 1: what my interests are.
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I've lost myself in this relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And a lot of times that losing themselves with
Speaker 2: the clients and they come up and I can relate
Speaker 2: to that feeling as well. A lot of times it's
Speaker 2: triggered when we notice that we're not doing things that
Speaker 2: we used to before, or we dropped habits that we
Speaker 2: used to have, or maybe we were very career oriented
Speaker 2: people and then we chose to stay home and take
Speaker 2: care of the children or travel for a year with
Speaker 2: our normalces, or whatever the case may be. But there
Speaker 2: was something that we had as a priority or we
Speaker 2: were really committed to at one point, and then we
Speaker 2: no longer practice that or engage in that, and then
Speaker 2: we're like, okay, now what. And so one way I
Speaker 2: like to kind of reframe it or look at it is, Okay,
Speaker 2: how do you want to recreate yourself? Who is it
Speaker 2: that you want to be now? Because the power that
Speaker 2: we have is the power to reinvent ourselves. So because
Speaker 2: you know, maybe five or ten years ago you might
Speaker 2: have really been interested in writing, but now you have
Speaker 2: found that there's something else that's calling your attention, or
Speaker 2: there's something else that you're really interested in. But again
Speaker 2: that it's coming back to that self reflection piece is
Speaker 2: the spending time with yourself and figuring out what is
Speaker 2: it that I need most now and you being your
Speaker 2: biggest advocate for having those needs met versus expecting or
Speaker 2: anticipating someone or something outside you to guide you in
Speaker 2: that direction.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: I love that information and is there a way to
Speaker 1: really kind of tap into that for yourself.
Speaker 3: So you've already mentioned journaling.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I like bonding with other people who have
Speaker 2: had similar experiences. So that's part of what I love
Speaker 2: with the community that you're building, because that question itself, like,
Speaker 2: that's not something that I've had a lot of conversations about.
Speaker 2: But then we make these taboo topics open and we
Speaker 2: connect to each other about that, and then we understand, Okay,
Speaker 2: it's not only me, and there are other people that
Speaker 2: have found this way to do it or that way
Speaker 2: to do it. And so just finding a safe space,
Speaker 2: finding community, and allowing your experience to be heard even
Speaker 2: that process in itself, because sometimes when you say something
Speaker 2: and then you hear the words actually come out of
Speaker 2: your mouth, you're like, oh shoot, Sometimes you know it's
Speaker 2: that conviction, or sometimes it's like, oh that's a really
Speaker 2: good idea. You know, I want to go forward with that.
Speaker 2: So not allowing yourself to be isolated is also really
Speaker 2: helpful in you figuring out, Okay, what is it that
Speaker 2: I need or how is it that I want to
Speaker 2: move forward, so looking for community, and yeah, that also
Speaker 2: helps you in that process of self reflection because we
Speaker 2: kind of have some kind of contrast or feedback.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the suggestions you're offering require us
Speaker 1: to maybe have some very difficult conversations. Anyway, we know
Speaker 1: those are not always easy. So can you talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about like the kind of internal work and
Speaker 1: the kind of personal work you might need to do
Speaker 1: either to have this conversation with somebody you're dating or
Speaker 1: partner with, or even with yourself, Like I think sometimes
Speaker 1: there's some work that needs to be done before you
Speaker 1: can be even honest with some of the pieces of yourself.
Speaker 2: I agree one hundred percent, And I love the concept
Speaker 2: of emotional intelligence. The way I was raised, emotions were
Speaker 2: frowned upon. I suppose it was something that you know,
Speaker 2: it's not it's irrational, like logic, you know, came first,
Speaker 2: and so like, I ended up reaching a point where
Speaker 2: I would emotionally cut off or shut off right Still,
Speaker 2: in many ways, I'm so grateful for the transition that
Speaker 2: I'm sensing in our culture and society in general, but
Speaker 2: there are still many areas where emotions are frowned upon
Speaker 2: or they're seen as less than And so I like
Speaker 2: the idea of emotional intelligence because our emotions are a
Speaker 2: source of intelligence. Our emotions point to an area that
Speaker 2: needs to be healed, or it points to something that
Speaker 2: needs to be resolved, or it points to something that
Speaker 2: needs a little bit more attention. And so if we're
Speaker 2: feeling like we're trapped, if we're feeling like we're losing
Speaker 2: a sense of freedom or we're lose using ourselves, that
Speaker 2: is absolutely something that we need to pay more attention to,
Speaker 2: that we need to listen to. And I like to
Speaker 2: talk about emotions being messengers and sitting with the emotion
Speaker 2: and trying to understand, Okay, what is it that you're
Speaker 2: trying to communicate to me, Especially if you keep on
Speaker 2: feeling that emotion intensely or coming to you over and
Speaker 2: over and over again. Try to think about it as
Speaker 2: some messenger coming to you, trying to communicate something that
Speaker 2: is going to help you move forward, something that is
Speaker 2: trying to help you be more resilient, or trying to
Speaker 2: help you have a little bit more balance in your life.
Speaker 2: And being able to sit with that and understand what
Speaker 2: you're feeling and what it is that you need as
Speaker 2: a result of that, whether that be anger or sadness
Speaker 2: or feeling isolated or of a loss of freedom, all
Speaker 2: of those things. And going through that process was how
Speaker 2: I came to the realization about you know, me using
Speaker 2: that support and confusing it with permission. And I realized, Okay,
Speaker 2: yes I'd like support, of course who wouldn't. But when
Speaker 2: I don't get it, I can still move forward with
Speaker 2: what's important to me versus oh, I'm not getting support,
Speaker 2: so I'm.
Speaker 1: Not going to do that more for my conversation after
Speaker 1: the break. And I think that that's the important piece, right,
Speaker 1: And I think we talked about this on the podcast too,
Speaker 1: just this like internal knowing in this sense of intuition,
Speaker 1: and sometimes we don't pay attention to you, right, but
Speaker 1: that really is usually a very important message for us
Speaker 1: to actually tap into. Absolutely, yeah, And I think you
Speaker 1: know that is the hard part of just figuring out
Speaker 1: like how you can really pay attention to that, how
Speaker 1: you can kind of tap into what message your intuition
Speaker 1: is trying to give you.
Speaker 2: Right, and literally just asking that question so you know,
Speaker 2: whether that's a journal prompt or whether you have like
Speaker 2: an empty chair in the room and you're like, you
Speaker 2: know what, sit down, sit down chains or sit down
Speaker 2: pain or sit down anger? What is it that you're
Speaker 2: trying to tell you right now? And sometimes, you know,
Speaker 2: stepping outside and kind of looking bigger picture, it gives
Speaker 2: you that flexibility and asking that question gives your brain
Speaker 2: the opportunity to try to find the solution for that versus.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of times we're just trying to
Speaker 2: shy away from it, or trying to numb it away
Speaker 2: or something else, but just inviting it and asking it
Speaker 2: to reveal its message or teach you what it is
Speaker 2: that's important for you to grasp or whatever the case
Speaker 2: may be in that moment.
Speaker 1: And I would imagine that sometimes you know, like let's
Speaker 1: say you've done your own work in terms of your
Speaker 1: emotional intelligence and you're paying attention to your emotions and
Speaker 1: what they're trying to teach you. But that may come
Speaker 1: up against a partner who has not necessarily done that work, right,
Speaker 1: So you're trying to have these conversations. You know, you
Speaker 1: have done all the work, but then this person has not,
Speaker 1: and so you're trying to have this conversation maybe about
Speaker 1: how you see yourself changing and what the relationship might
Speaker 1: look like now that you've changed, but they have not
Speaker 1: done that work. So do you have any suggestions about,
Speaker 1: like how to navigate that kind of a conversation.
Speaker 2: I was like, I saw where this is going on.
Speaker 2: As soon as you're saying that, I was like, Lord,
Speaker 2: it's not It's definitely not easy because just us going
Speaker 2: through that process ourselves, it takes so much work, so
Speaker 2: much energy, and it would be ideal, it would be
Speaker 2: so beautiful if we could bring that that work, that
Speaker 2: gift that we that diamond that we mind for, you know,
Speaker 2: going through all that emotion and present it to our
Speaker 2: partner and they're like appreciative of it and it knowledge
Speaker 2: and acknowledge it in all those things. However, a lot
Speaker 2: of times when we come into our partner, they might
Speaker 2: still be stuck in let's just say a different level
Speaker 2: of emotional intelligence, and so you are having a hard
Speaker 2: time trying to be heard or feel understood or feel seen.
Speaker 2: And so it's about again, when you meet that like
Speaker 2: being very aware of how you make meaning of that.
Speaker 2: So one way you can interpret that is, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: this person doesn't care about me. They don't love me.
Speaker 2: Another way we could go like the name calling route,
Speaker 2: you know, or we can respond to that in so
Speaker 2: many different ways, but it's paying attention to, Okay, what
Speaker 2: story am I making about their response? And so if
Speaker 2: they respond in a way that isn't supporting you, or
Speaker 2: that isn't he hearing you, or they might get really defensive,
Speaker 2: or they might take it like you're trying to criticize
Speaker 2: them or text them or whatever, it's about you understanding that, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're not in a place where we're seeing eye to eye,
Speaker 2: we're not in a place where we're understanding each other.
Speaker 2: I see that they're operating from defensiveness, or they're operating
Speaker 2: from anger, or they're you know, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2: But you doing the work to make sure that you
Speaker 2: understand where you are operating from because then that that
Speaker 2: gives you the power not to fall into into that
Speaker 2: trap of them being reactive and like controlled or manipulated
Speaker 2: by whatever it is that they say. And so just noticing,
Speaker 2: like exactly you were mentioning the question, like they're not
Speaker 2: in a place where they're able to hold the intensity
Speaker 2: of the emotion or the brownness of this issue that
Speaker 2: I'm bringing to them, right now and if you are
Speaker 2: in the early stages of a relationship, like that's one
Speaker 2: thing that you could pay attention to, Like how emotionally
Speaker 2: intelligent is this person? Like is this person someone who
Speaker 2: is a will to hold and process emotion or is
Speaker 2: this someone that just tries to like dodge or numb
Speaker 2: stuff away? Like those are good signs for you to
Speaker 2: know whether or not this is someone that I could
Speaker 2: work through life scrap with.
Speaker 3: Got it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that is important, Like we talked about earlier,
Speaker 1: like Okay, what are some of these questions or what
Speaker 1: can I be paying attention to you? This is something
Speaker 1: that you definitely can be paying attention to. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I think it's also important to kind of broaden the
Speaker 1: conversation a little because we've been talking a lot about
Speaker 1: like if I'm changing and I feel like I want
Speaker 1: to do more in the relationship, like how do I
Speaker 1: navigate that? But I also think that there is a
Speaker 1: threat in the relationship or it often feels like a
Speaker 1: threat when your partner is changing.
Speaker 3: Right, So what if you wake up and.
Speaker 1: Realize like that your partner is changing in ways that
Speaker 1: you didn't expect, and now the threat that you experience
Speaker 1: is like their burgeoning freedom or them wanting more freedom
Speaker 1: in terms of the relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how I feel about this because
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm bringing it back to the self again,
Speaker 2: because then the question that comes to my mind is
Speaker 2: isn't that what you want unless you know it's not.
Speaker 2: But if your spouse or your partner experiencing freedom in
Speaker 2: the safety of a relationship, is that not a beautiful thing?
Speaker 2: And so if you feel threatened by your partner expressing
Speaker 2: themselves in a different way, or if you feel threatened
Speaker 2: by your partner changing, where is that coming from? Are
Speaker 2: you fearful that they may have less commitment to the relationship?
Speaker 2: Is it bringing up something else from previous experiences? But yeah,
Speaker 2: then I would be curious as to why your partner
Speaker 2: is sparking some kind of fear of panic.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, that panic feeling. It feels like that
Speaker 1: is something people can really connect to, right, And I
Speaker 1: think paying attention to that for yourself can give you
Speaker 1: a lot of information about the relationship and about like
Speaker 1: how you may be both are showing up in the relationship.
Speaker 1: That them shifting a little or you know, spreading their
Speaker 1: wings in a little gives you.
Speaker 3: An internal panic feeling, right right, mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, if we kind of go
Speaker 1: back to the original question around like what our partner
Speaker 1: may be feeling, that maybe some of it, you know,
Speaker 1: so thinking about how you maybe would be feeling can
Speaker 1: give you some insight into maybe how they're feeling as well.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, doctor de can you maybe share some characteristics
Speaker 1: of what a relationship looks like when freedom is celebrated,
Speaker 1: when there is this kind of space, like what might
Speaker 1: that relationship look like?
Speaker 2: That relationship would welcome curiosity for sure, and so it
Speaker 2: would be when one of the partners is dabbling into
Speaker 2: something different, are they showing up, you know, with a
Speaker 2: new traite or a new pattern, just being curious and
Speaker 2: understanding you know what is inspiring that because a lot
Speaker 2: of times when we do change, it is because of
Speaker 2: some kind of experience that we've had or some kind
Speaker 2: of new aha moment or insight that we went through.
Speaker 2: And so that curiosity allows space for a new level
Speaker 2: of intimacy. And so when we're able to connect in
Speaker 2: that way, that's not only encouraging, like intimacy at an
Speaker 2: intellectual level, it's also at an emotional level. And that
Speaker 2: might even be open to sharing some of those new
Speaker 2: experiences with them, so that you know that would look
Speaker 2: like providing that support even though you may not have
Speaker 2: chosen to do that yourself, but because your partner is
Speaker 2: showing interest in that, just at least being curious or
Speaker 2: opening open to seeing what that is about. Also just
Speaker 2: increasing communication and again just yeah, exploring what those changes
Speaker 2: are about and redefining what the future may look like
Speaker 2: as a result, because in most relationships, what we envision
Speaker 2: the relationship to look like day one is very different
Speaker 2: from what we envision the relationship looking like year one, year,
Speaker 2: five year, ten, year twenty. As we evolve, our relationships evolved,
Speaker 2: and being able to communicate with each other openly what
Speaker 2: we see changing in those visions also allows that freedom
Speaker 2: to be nurtured, because if you can even feel safe,
Speaker 2: then that would be goals. Right to feel safe to
Speaker 2: talk about and just brainstorm and be open with each
Speaker 2: other about what we could look like moving forward or
Speaker 2: what could be represented or lived out in our relationship
Speaker 2: would be signs of yeah, freedom being nurtured.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that comment made me think about, like this,
Speaker 1: maybe another important question or conversation to add to your
Speaker 1: kind of early dating questionnaire, just this idea around is
Speaker 1: it okay for people to kind of have their own
Speaker 1: things going on that have nothing to do with their partner,
Speaker 1: You know, so if I want to do dancing or
Speaker 1: rock climbing or whatever, like, does every activity need to
Speaker 1: be a joint kind of venture or is it okay
Speaker 1: for both people to have interests that really have nothing
Speaker 1: to do with the other person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's a beautiful description of what
Speaker 2: freedom in a relationship could look like. It's two people,
Speaker 2: two individual people coming together and choosing to share life together.
Speaker 2: That choice of sharing a life together and partnering together
Speaker 2: in life does not mean that we are choosing to
Speaker 2: do every single activity in our waking moments together, right Like,
Speaker 2: I still have my own visions, my own dreams, and
Speaker 2: my own goals, and I still have my space in
Speaker 2: which I explore or expand, and I still come together
Speaker 2: with you and sharing that life together. So again, like
Speaker 2: that concept of harmony, it could still be two different
Speaker 2: individuals working together beautifully and everything doesn't have to be
Speaker 2: in unison. And that's an excellent question as well, because
Speaker 2: a lot of people do think that whatever we do,
Speaker 2: we need to do it together. And if you're one
Speaker 2: of the people that don't think that, like, that would
Speaker 2: be good for you to get out of the way
Speaker 2: from the beginning and be like, Okay, you know there's
Speaker 2: somebody for you, but that may not be me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So what kinds of books or other resources do you
Speaker 1: want to share, doctor D for anybody who maybe wants
Speaker 1: to read up more about this, or maybe they're feeling
Speaker 1: like they're struggling with some of this and want to
Speaker 1: get more information, anything that you really love.
Speaker 2: I like the book The Dance of Intimacy that's by
Speaker 2: Harriet Learner, and that is about you. It teaches you
Speaker 2: different ways and prompts you with a lot of questions
Speaker 2: to look inward in a way that influences your relationships.
Speaker 2: So I would highly recommend that book and then other
Speaker 2: just general books for things that you could do differently
Speaker 2: to make sure that you're showing up intentionally in your relationships.
Speaker 2: Batman John Batman, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work,
Speaker 2: and Sue Johnson's hosting Type.
Speaker 1: Perfect and where can people find you online?
Speaker 3: Doctor D?
Speaker 1: Your website, as well as any social media handles that
Speaker 1: you want to share.
Speaker 2: Yes, I am on most active on Instagram. So that's
Speaker 2: at doctor spelled dr dot d v MFT so doctor
Speaker 2: D the MFT on Instagram. I'm also there the same
Speaker 2: handle on Facebook, YouTube, and my website is doctor dhd
Speaker 2: mft dot.
Speaker 1: Com perfect And of course all of that information will
Speaker 1: be included in the show notes. Well, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for sharing with us, doctor D. I really really
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you. It was my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1: Once again. I'm so glad that doctor D was able
Speaker 1: to join me for this conversation. To learn more about
Speaker 1: her and the work she's doing. Be sure to visit
Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash
Speaker 1: Session three ninety nine. And don't forget that if you
Speaker 1: have a question you'd like for me to answer on
Speaker 1: the podcast, send me a voice note at Memo dot
Speaker 1: fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and submitted your question
Speaker 1: just might be featured next. This episode was produced by
Speaker 1: Alas Ellis and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care,