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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session three ninety nine of the

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation

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Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. Relationships and freedom can

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Speaker 1: they truly coexist? This episode from our archives revisits a

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Speaker 1: powerful discussion sparked by a question from our community, how

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Speaker 1: do you navigate the idea of losing some of your

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Speaker 1: freedom in a relationship? In this episode, I'm joined by

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Speaker 1: doctor Maria de Menuez, LMFT, also known as doctor D. Together,

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Speaker 1: we unpack what it means to navigate freedom and relationships,

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Speaker 1: how to define what freedom looks like for you and

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Speaker 1: the key conversations to have while dating that can provide clarity.

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Speaker 1: We also explored how to build a relationship culture that

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Speaker 1: evolves with the many changes you and your partner will

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Speaker 1: experience over time. If something resonates with you while enjoying

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Speaker 1: our conversation, please share with us on social media using

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Speaker 1: the hash TVG in session. Here's our conversation. Well, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today, doctor Dominguez.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I am so excited to

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Speaker 2: be here. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we have been having a very riveting, I would say,

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Speaker 1: conversation over in the Instagram comments. So we posted a

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Speaker 1: question last week, and our new features help us a

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Speaker 1: start out, and that's where audience or community members can

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Speaker 1: kind of submit a question or a topic they want

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Speaker 1: to discuss with the collective and have people weigh in

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Speaker 1: on it. And so one of the questions last week

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Speaker 1: was about how do you maintain your sense of freedom

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Speaker 1: while being in a relationship.

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Speaker 3: And needless to.

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Speaker 1: Say, the comments section has been jumping and so you

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Speaker 1: shared beautifully, which is why I wanted you to come

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Speaker 1: on the podcast to talk more about this, because it

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Speaker 1: definitely feels like something is happening right that people are

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Speaker 1: feeling that were at least a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: commented or feeling that their sense of freedom is in

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Speaker 1: some way threatened by the possibility of being in a relationship.

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Speaker 1: So I just want to hear your thoughts on what

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Speaker 1: you kind of think maybe shaping this kind of of

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Speaker 1: a conversation and narrative that people are holding on to.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. First, I'll share from my own personal, individual perspective,

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Speaker 2: and then I'll go out And what I shared in

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Speaker 2: the comments was my own experience, right because I am

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Speaker 2: in a relationship. I've been married for nine years and

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Speaker 2: we've known each other since high school, so it's like

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Speaker 2: a fifteen year marriage. And I was sharing about how throughout,

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Speaker 2: you know, through those fifteen years, you do a lot

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Speaker 2: of changing, Like I'm definitely not the same sixteen year

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Speaker 2: old or seventeen year old that met him, and through

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Speaker 2: those years, like different changes come and the response to

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Speaker 2: those changes differ. Some of those changes were welcomed, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was welcome with open arms, and like yes, other

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Speaker 2: of those changes got decided like where is this coming from?

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Speaker 2: You know, who are you? And so for myself, one

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Speaker 2: thing that I realize I got confused with this whole

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Speaker 2: idea of freedom was expecting or kind of anticipating the

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Speaker 2: person's support to be necessary for me to move forward

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Speaker 2: with that. And so what liberated me and my process

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Speaker 2: was realizing, like, the reason we even work is because

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Speaker 2: we compliment each other, and we compliment each other because

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Speaker 2: we're different people, we have different perspectives, and at times

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Speaker 2: that's exactly what I need. At other times, like I

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Speaker 2: want us to be working in unison, but sometimes I

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Speaker 2: like using the metaphor of like being singing in unison

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Speaker 2: versus singing in harmony, And sometimes that harmony is so

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Speaker 2: much more beautiful. But to have that harmony, you do

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Speaker 2: need to learn how to marry that difference together. And

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Speaker 2: so understanding that when I do not receive the support

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Speaker 2: that I want or that I long for or that

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Speaker 2: I anticipate, it is up to me to know how

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Speaker 2: who look inward and understand, Okay, why do I want

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Speaker 2: to do this? Why do I feel so strongly? What

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Speaker 2: is it that you know my intuition is guiding me

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Speaker 2: to do? And how can I do it? How can

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Speaker 2: I encourage myself? How can I support myself even if

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Speaker 2: I'm not getting that support need met by this particular person.

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Speaker 2: You know, I can reach out and have that met

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Speaker 2: by a family member or by a friend, or by

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Speaker 2: someone in my spiritual community. And so that's kind of

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Speaker 2: what was really important for me at that individual level.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, my understanding of freedom and a relationship and

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Speaker 2: a lot of people seeing the resonate with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I love this whole part of

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Speaker 1: you kind of turning internally right and kind of reflecting

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Speaker 1: for yourself, like, Okay, what is it that I am

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Speaker 1: looking for? And so I'm wondering, you know, what can

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Speaker 1: you share with maybe other people about.

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Speaker 3: How to do that internal process?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so I for myself and I know a

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Speaker 2: lot of other people. Journaling is big, and journaling in

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Speaker 2: the way in which you're asking yourself questions. Because when

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Speaker 2: you ask yourself a question, just the way a brain

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Speaker 2: is wired, like, it automatically starts creating some kind of solution.

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Speaker 2: And when we're writing it out or whether you're doing

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Speaker 2: a video journal or audio journal, like, then your brain,

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Speaker 2: you know, it tries to put the pieces together and

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Speaker 2: it usually brings some kind of revelation to you. And

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Speaker 2: so writing has been very important in my healing and

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Speaker 2: liberating process. But I know for other people that I've

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Speaker 2: worked with or I speak with, using music or using

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Speaker 2: some kind of creative process to express what it is

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Speaker 2: that they're feeling or going through really helps them to

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Speaker 2: be able to uncover that. But it's about like recognizing

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Speaker 2: and sitting with whatever it is you're feeling. So if

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Speaker 2: you're feeling that, like that discomfort of I'm feeling trapped

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Speaker 2: or I'm feeling contrained, like, don't brush it off. I

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Speaker 2: know for myself sometimes in the past I would just

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Speaker 2: be like, well, you know, that's Mary Vife for you. No,

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Speaker 2: not necessarily, it doesn't have to be that way. So

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Speaker 2: where is this coming from? What is it that I'm

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Speaker 2: feeling uncomfortable? And really discovering that and bringing that to

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Speaker 2: the surface, because once you understand what the core is,

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Speaker 2: then you could deal with it so much more effectively.

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Speaker 1: So I would imagine that there may be some people

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Speaker 1: listening who are thinking, whoa is this how I'm feeling? Like?

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Speaker 3: Am I feeling like my freedom is being threatened?

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Speaker 1: So can you give us some ideas about like how

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Speaker 1: would you even know if this is something that you're

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Speaker 1: struggling with.

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Speaker 2: Resentment is a very good warning sign. So if you're

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Speaker 2: starting to feel resentment, then that that's probably a sign that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that there might be some some feelings of a loss

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Speaker 2: of freedom there.

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Speaker 3: Got it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that resentment I think can speak to a

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Speaker 1: lot of different things, right, Like I think we've even

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Speaker 1: talked about on the podcast how that resentment is a

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Speaker 1: warning sign of like a needing to tighten up on

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Speaker 1: boundary are you know, lots of different things kind of

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Speaker 1: pop up as resentment. So I definitely agree that you're

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Speaker 1: feeling resentment. There's a need to kind of look at

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Speaker 1: what's happening there.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And then those feelings we touched on it a

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Speaker 2: little bit earlier of like of being tracked or even

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Speaker 2: the idea that another person being involved then means that

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Speaker 2: you somehow have a little bit less power or a

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Speaker 2: little bit less privilege. And that's not necessarily the case

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Speaker 2: unless we allow it to be so.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm wondering if there are any kinds of

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Speaker 1: things that you can be on the lookout for, or

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Speaker 1: are there questions that you can ask maybe in the

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Speaker 1: dating relationship that will kind of give you a sign

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Speaker 1: about what this might look like in a long term

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Speaker 1: relationship between you and someone else.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question, and I definitely think that

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Speaker 2: both of you talking about what your expectations are right.

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Speaker 2: And so I remember someone in the comments was talking

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Speaker 2: about what does that freedom actually mean? Does it mean

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Speaker 2: that you want to go out and stay out late?

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Speaker 2: Does it mean that you want to do this? Want

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Speaker 2: to do that? So, like in the dating relationship, have

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Speaker 2: clear expectations, Like a lot of the times when I'm

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Speaker 2: doing my couple's therapy, it's that mismatch of expectations that

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Speaker 2: was never discussed earlier on in the relationship that presents

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Speaker 2: itself later on. So expectations about what's appropriate or inappropriate

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Speaker 2: when it comes to building relationships with people of other sexes,

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Speaker 2: or what they believe to be inappropriate when it comes

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Speaker 2: to what's forgivable or what's not forgivable, or when divorce

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Speaker 2: can be put on the table or not put on

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Speaker 2: the table, or all of these things. Even money, what's appropriate?

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Speaker 2: How involved are we going to be in each other's finances?

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Speaker 2: Like all of these things and expectations. A lot of

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Speaker 2: the times we just assume that our partner thinks the

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Speaker 2: way that we do, and it's not until we're confronted

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Speaker 2: with that difference then we realize there's a totally different

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Speaker 2: way of looking at this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think a lot of that pre work

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Speaker 1: is really important because there are some things that you

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Speaker 1: just don't even imagine will come up in partnership and

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Speaker 1: you're like, whoa, where did that come from? And it

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Speaker 1: kind of comes from, you know, not discussing some of

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Speaker 1: these really important topics that I think are important to

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Speaker 1: talk about kind of early on in a partnership.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I like the idea of even discussing, like,

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Speaker 2: what is this evolution going to look like? Because sometimes

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Speaker 2: people expect that how this relationship started, this is how

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Speaker 2: it's going to look like for the next ten, fifteen, twenty,

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Speaker 2: twenty plus years, and taking into account and maybe even

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Speaker 2: you know, discussing with each other like what does that

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Speaker 2: change look like? And how are we going to nurture

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Speaker 2: support or not when those changes come up, because we

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Speaker 2: do change over the years, and how do we meet

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Speaker 2: our partners still lovingly and embracing those.

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Speaker 4: Changes more from our conversation after the break.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And I want to dig into that a

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Speaker 1: little bit more, doctor D because I feel like that

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Speaker 1: is really hard, especially when we ourselves don't always know

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Speaker 1: how we're going to change, like in the next ten years, right,

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Speaker 1: Like things happen, your interest change, and you know, so

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Speaker 1: the commitment that you made early on in the partnership

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Speaker 1: may look very different ten years in, right, And so

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Speaker 1: how do you navigate that?

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Speaker 3: Cause?

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Speaker 1: I feel like in some ways, like some changes are small, right,

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Speaker 1: like you change your hair.

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Speaker 3: Or you know, something like pretty simple.

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Speaker 1: But then there are other changes like you know, you

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Speaker 1: taking a job that requires you to travel a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch when you didn't used to, or you know, like

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Speaker 1: changes that really impact.

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Speaker 3: The family unit in bigger ways.

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Speaker 1: And so how do you have those kinds of conversations

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Speaker 1: and creative partnership that allows for both people to change

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Speaker 1: in those ways?

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Speaker 2: That is? That is such a powerful question. I face

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Speaker 2: with that question a lot, especially because of the population

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Speaker 2: of people I work with and live with as a

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Speaker 2: military spouse. Often a lot of those changes occur because

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Speaker 2: it's part of the job, right. A lot of our

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Speaker 2: service members are forced to go through a lot of transitions.

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Speaker 2: They experience and witness a lot of trauma, and there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of isolation and loss of support systems building

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Speaker 2: up a network. But then you know, being moved to

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Speaker 2: another one, and there is a lot of that sense

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Speaker 2: of a loss of freedom because you know, you might

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Speaker 2: have to throw your five year plan out the window,

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Speaker 2: like you have no idea where you'll be living five

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Speaker 2: years from now, or things like that and so and

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Speaker 2: the ways in which we change and we grow up

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Speaker 2: or we may say stuff when we do experience traumatic

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Speaker 2: events that has an impact on our personality as well.

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Speaker 2: And what I found from working with military families, also

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Speaker 2: working with families that go through a lot of transition,

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Speaker 2: a lot of spouses of business women, men and women

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Speaker 2: that need to travel a lot, and they stay home,

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Speaker 2: or they may have chosen to put their career on

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Speaker 2: hold while they take care of the children while their

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Speaker 2: partners traveling all of those things. Then all of these

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Speaker 2: couples have to look at each other and figure out

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Speaker 2: what is still tying us all of these changes happen,

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Speaker 2: we change ourselves, but how do we still stay connected?

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Speaker 2: And that answer looks very different for every couple, But

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Speaker 2: like figuring out, like what is our bond based on

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Speaker 2: and then having that acceptance that many of these other

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Speaker 2: things will change, But like our commitment to these vows,

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Speaker 2: or our spiritual connection or our attachment bond to each

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Speaker 2: other or our love for this is always going to

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Speaker 2: remain and I've seen that a lot of couples have

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Speaker 2: found that to be what they hold on to and

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Speaker 2: be able to cope with a lot of these other

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Speaker 2: changes in our personalities as a result of you know,

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Speaker 2: what life throws at us.

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Speaker 1: So I think something else that happens, and you often

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Speaker 1: hear this whole expression of oh, she lost herself in

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Speaker 1: the relationship. Oh yeah, right, So I want to touch

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Speaker 1: on that a little bit and kind of talk through

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Speaker 1: like how that happens and what that looks like, because

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Speaker 1: I think that that can be something that contributes to

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Speaker 1: this waking up one days realizing like, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: like who am I in this relationship? So can you

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about like maybe if you had

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Speaker 1: a client who came in and said, you know, five

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Speaker 1: years into this relationship and I'm realizing, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what my interests are.

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Speaker 3: I don't feel like I've lost myself in this relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And a lot of times that losing themselves with

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Speaker 2: the clients and they come up and I can relate

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Speaker 2: to that feeling as well. A lot of times it's

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Speaker 2: triggered when we notice that we're not doing things that

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Speaker 2: we used to before, or we dropped habits that we

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Speaker 2: used to have, or maybe we were very career oriented

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Speaker 2: people and then we chose to stay home and take

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Speaker 2: care of the children or travel for a year with

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Speaker 2: our normalces, or whatever the case may be. But there

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Speaker 2: was something that we had as a priority or we

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Speaker 2: were really committed to at one point, and then we

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Speaker 2: no longer practice that or engage in that, and then

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Speaker 2: we're like, okay, now what. And so one way I

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Speaker 2: like to kind of reframe it or look at it is, Okay,

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Speaker 2: how do you want to recreate yourself? Who is it

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Speaker 2: that you want to be now? Because the power that

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Speaker 2: we have is the power to reinvent ourselves. So because

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe five or ten years ago you might

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Speaker 2: have really been interested in writing, but now you have

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Speaker 2: found that there's something else that's calling your attention, or

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Speaker 2: there's something else that you're really interested in. But again

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Speaker 2: that it's coming back to that self reflection piece is

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Speaker 2: the spending time with yourself and figuring out what is

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Speaker 2: it that I need most now and you being your

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Speaker 2: biggest advocate for having those needs met versus expecting or

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Speaker 2: anticipating someone or something outside you to guide you in

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Speaker 2: that direction.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: I love that information and is there a way to

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Speaker 1: really kind of tap into that for yourself.

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Speaker 3: So you've already mentioned journaling.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I like bonding with other people who have

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Speaker 2: had similar experiences. So that's part of what I love

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Speaker 2: with the community that you're building, because that question itself, like,

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Speaker 2: that's not something that I've had a lot of conversations about.

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Speaker 2: But then we make these taboo topics open and we

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Speaker 2: connect to each other about that, and then we understand, Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's not only me, and there are other people that

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Speaker 2: have found this way to do it or that way

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Speaker 2: to do it. And so just finding a safe space,

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Speaker 2: finding community, and allowing your experience to be heard even

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Speaker 2: that process in itself, because sometimes when you say something

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Speaker 2: and then you hear the words actually come out of

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Speaker 2: your mouth, you're like, oh shoot, Sometimes you know it's

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Speaker 2: that conviction, or sometimes it's like, oh that's a really

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Speaker 2: good idea. You know, I want to go forward with that.

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Speaker 2: So not allowing yourself to be isolated is also really

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Speaker 2: helpful in you figuring out, Okay, what is it that

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Speaker 2: I need or how is it that I want to

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Speaker 2: move forward, so looking for community, and yeah, that also

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Speaker 2: helps you in that process of self reflection because we

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Speaker 2: kind of have some kind of contrast or feedback.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of the suggestions you're offering require us

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Speaker 1: to maybe have some very difficult conversations. Anyway, we know

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Speaker 1: those are not always easy. So can you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about like the kind of internal work and

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Speaker 1: the kind of personal work you might need to do

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Speaker 1: either to have this conversation with somebody you're dating or

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Speaker 1: partner with, or even with yourself, Like I think sometimes

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Speaker 1: there's some work that needs to be done before you

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Speaker 1: can be even honest with some of the pieces of yourself.

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Speaker 2: I agree one hundred percent, And I love the concept

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Speaker 2: of emotional intelligence. The way I was raised, emotions were

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Speaker 2: frowned upon. I suppose it was something that you know,

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Speaker 2: it's not it's irrational, like logic, you know, came first,

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Speaker 2: and so like, I ended up reaching a point where

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Speaker 2: I would emotionally cut off or shut off right Still,

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Speaker 2: in many ways, I'm so grateful for the transition that

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Speaker 2: I'm sensing in our culture and society in general, but

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Speaker 2: there are still many areas where emotions are frowned upon

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Speaker 2: or they're seen as less than And so I like

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Speaker 2: the idea of emotional intelligence because our emotions are a

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Speaker 2: source of intelligence. Our emotions point to an area that

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Speaker 2: needs to be healed, or it points to something that

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Speaker 2: needs to be resolved, or it points to something that

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Speaker 2: needs a little bit more attention. And so if we're

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Speaker 2: feeling like we're trapped, if we're feeling like we're losing

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Speaker 2: a sense of freedom or we're lose using ourselves, that

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Speaker 2: is absolutely something that we need to pay more attention to,

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Speaker 2: that we need to listen to. And I like to

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Speaker 2: talk about emotions being messengers and sitting with the emotion

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Speaker 2: and trying to understand, Okay, what is it that you're

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Speaker 2: trying to communicate to me, Especially if you keep on

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Speaker 2: feeling that emotion intensely or coming to you over and

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Speaker 2: over and over again. Try to think about it as

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Speaker 2: some messenger coming to you, trying to communicate something that

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Speaker 2: is going to help you move forward, something that is

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Speaker 2: trying to help you be more resilient, or trying to

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Speaker 2: help you have a little bit more balance in your life.

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Speaker 2: And being able to sit with that and understand what

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Speaker 2: you're feeling and what it is that you need as

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Speaker 2: a result of that, whether that be anger or sadness

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Speaker 2: or feeling isolated or of a loss of freedom, all

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Speaker 2: of those things. And going through that process was how

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Speaker 2: I came to the realization about you know, me using

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Speaker 2: that support and confusing it with permission. And I realized, Okay,

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Speaker 2: yes I'd like support, of course who wouldn't. But when

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Speaker 2: I don't get it, I can still move forward with

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Speaker 2: what's important to me versus oh, I'm not getting support,

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Speaker 2: so I'm.

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Speaker 1: Not going to do that more for my conversation after

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Speaker 1: the break. And I think that that's the important piece, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think we talked about this on the podcast too,

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Speaker 1: just this like internal knowing in this sense of intuition,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes we don't pay attention to you, right, but

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Speaker 1: that really is usually a very important message for us

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Speaker 1: to actually tap into. Absolutely, yeah, And I think you

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Speaker 1: know that is the hard part of just figuring out

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Speaker 1: like how you can really pay attention to that, how

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Speaker 1: you can kind of tap into what message your intuition

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Speaker 1: is trying to give you.

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Speaker 2: Right, and literally just asking that question so you know,

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Speaker 2: whether that's a journal prompt or whether you have like

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Speaker 2: an empty chair in the room and you're like, you

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Speaker 2: know what, sit down, sit down chains or sit down

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Speaker 2: pain or sit down anger? What is it that you're

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Speaker 2: trying to tell you right now? And sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 2: stepping outside and kind of looking bigger picture, it gives

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Speaker 2: you that flexibility and asking that question gives your brain

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to try to find the solution for that versus.

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Speaker 2: You know, a lot of times we're just trying to

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Speaker 2: shy away from it, or trying to numb it away

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Speaker 2: or something else, but just inviting it and asking it

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Speaker 2: to reveal its message or teach you what it is

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Speaker 2: that's important for you to grasp or whatever the case

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Speaker 2: may be in that moment.

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Speaker 1: And I would imagine that sometimes you know, like let's

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Speaker 1: say you've done your own work in terms of your

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Speaker 1: emotional intelligence and you're paying attention to your emotions and

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Speaker 1: what they're trying to teach you. But that may come

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Speaker 1: up against a partner who has not necessarily done that work, right,

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Speaker 1: So you're trying to have these conversations. You know, you

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Speaker 1: have done all the work, but then this person has not,

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Speaker 1: and so you're trying to have this conversation maybe about

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Speaker 1: how you see yourself changing and what the relationship might

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Speaker 1: look like now that you've changed, but they have not

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Speaker 1: done that work. So do you have any suggestions about,

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Speaker 1: like how to navigate that kind of a conversation.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I saw where this is going on.

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Speaker 2: As soon as you're saying that, I was like, Lord,

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Speaker 2: it's not It's definitely not easy because just us going

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Speaker 2: through that process ourselves, it takes so much work, so

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Speaker 2: much energy, and it would be ideal, it would be

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Speaker 2: so beautiful if we could bring that that work, that

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Speaker 2: gift that we that diamond that we mind for, you know,

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Speaker 2: going through all that emotion and present it to our

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Speaker 2: partner and they're like appreciative of it and it knowledge

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Speaker 2: and acknowledge it in all those things. However, a lot

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Speaker 2: of times when we come into our partner, they might

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Speaker 2: still be stuck in let's just say a different level

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Speaker 2: of emotional intelligence, and so you are having a hard

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Speaker 2: time trying to be heard or feel understood or feel seen.

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Speaker 2: And so it's about again, when you meet that like

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Speaker 2: being very aware of how you make meaning of that.

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Speaker 2: So one way you can interpret that is, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: this person doesn't care about me. They don't love me.

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Speaker 2: Another way we could go like the name calling route,

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Speaker 2: you know, or we can respond to that in so

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Speaker 2: many different ways, but it's paying attention to, Okay, what

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Speaker 2: story am I making about their response? And so if

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Speaker 2: they respond in a way that isn't supporting you, or

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Speaker 2: that isn't he hearing you, or they might get really defensive,

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Speaker 2: or they might take it like you're trying to criticize

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Speaker 2: them or text them or whatever, it's about you understanding that, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we're not in a place where we're seeing eye to eye,

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Speaker 2: we're not in a place where we're understanding each other.

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Speaker 2: I see that they're operating from defensiveness, or they're operating

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Speaker 2: from anger, or they're you know, whatever the case may be.

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Speaker 2: But you doing the work to make sure that you

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Speaker 2: understand where you are operating from because then that that

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Speaker 2: gives you the power not to fall into into that

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Speaker 2: trap of them being reactive and like controlled or manipulated

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Speaker 2: by whatever it is that they say. And so just noticing,

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Speaker 2: like exactly you were mentioning the question, like they're not

439
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 2: in a place where they're able to hold the intensity

440
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: of the emotion or the brownness of this issue that

441
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: I'm bringing to them, right now and if you are

442
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: in the early stages of a relationship, like that's one

443
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 2: thing that you could pay attention to, Like how emotionally

444
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 2: intelligent is this person? Like is this person someone who

445
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: is a will to hold and process emotion or is

446
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 2: this someone that just tries to like dodge or numb

447
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 2: stuff away? Like those are good signs for you to

448
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: know whether or not this is someone that I could

449
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: work through life scrap with.

450
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: Got it?

451
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that is important, Like we talked about earlier,

452
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: like Okay, what are some of these questions or what

453
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: can I be paying attention to you? This is something

454
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: that you definitely can be paying attention to. Yeah, So

455
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: I think it's also important to kind of broaden the

456
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 1: conversation a little because we've been talking a lot about

457
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: like if I'm changing and I feel like I want

458
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: to do more in the relationship, like how do I

459
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: navigate that? But I also think that there is a

460
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: threat in the relationship or it often feels like a

461
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: threat when your partner is changing.

462
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: Right, So what if you wake up and.

463
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: Realize like that your partner is changing in ways that

464
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: you didn't expect, and now the threat that you experience

465
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: is like their burgeoning freedom or them wanting more freedom

466
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: in terms of the relationship.

467
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how I feel about this because

468
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm bringing it back to the self again,

469
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: because then the question that comes to my mind is

470
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 2: isn't that what you want unless you know it's not.

471
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: But if your spouse or your partner experiencing freedom in

472
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 2: the safety of a relationship, is that not a beautiful thing?

473
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 2: And so if you feel threatened by your partner expressing

474
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 2: themselves in a different way, or if you feel threatened

475
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: by your partner changing, where is that coming from? Are

476
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: you fearful that they may have less commitment to the relationship?

477
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: Is it bringing up something else from previous experiences? But yeah,

478
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: then I would be curious as to why your partner

479
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: is sparking some kind of fear of panic.

480
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, that panic feeling. It feels like that

481
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: is something people can really connect to, right, And I

482
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: think paying attention to that for yourself can give you

483
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: a lot of information about the relationship and about like

484
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: how you may be both are showing up in the relationship.

485
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: That them shifting a little or you know, spreading their

486
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: wings in a little gives you.

487
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 3: An internal panic feeling, right right, mm hmm.

488
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, if we kind of go

489
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: back to the original question around like what our partner

490
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: may be feeling, that maybe some of it, you know,

491
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: so thinking about how you maybe would be feeling can

492
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: give you some insight into maybe how they're feeling as well.

493
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, doctor de can you maybe share some characteristics

494
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: of what a relationship looks like when freedom is celebrated,

495
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: when there is this kind of space, like what might

496
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: that relationship look like?

497
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: That relationship would welcome curiosity for sure, and so it

498
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 2: would be when one of the partners is dabbling into

499
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: something different, are they showing up, you know, with a

500
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 2: new traite or a new pattern, just being curious and

501
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 2: understanding you know what is inspiring that because a lot

502
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 2: of times when we do change, it is because of

503
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: some kind of experience that we've had or some kind

504
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 2: of new aha moment or insight that we went through.

505
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 2: And so that curiosity allows space for a new level

506
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 2: of intimacy. And so when we're able to connect in

507
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: that way, that's not only encouraging, like intimacy at an

508
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: intellectual level, it's also at an emotional level. And that

509
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: might even be open to sharing some of those new

510
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: experiences with them, so that you know that would look

511
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 2: like providing that support even though you may not have

512
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: chosen to do that yourself, but because your partner is

513
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: showing interest in that, just at least being curious or

514
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: opening open to seeing what that is about. Also just

515
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 2: increasing communication and again just yeah, exploring what those changes

516
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: are about and redefining what the future may look like

517
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: as a result, because in most relationships, what we envision

518
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: the relationship to look like day one is very different

519
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: from what we envision the relationship looking like year one, year,

520
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: five year, ten, year twenty. As we evolve, our relationships evolved,

521
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: and being able to communicate with each other openly what

522
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: we see changing in those visions also allows that freedom

523
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: to be nurtured, because if you can even feel safe,

524
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: then that would be goals. Right to feel safe to

525
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: talk about and just brainstorm and be open with each

526
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: other about what we could look like moving forward or

527
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: what could be represented or lived out in our relationship

528
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: would be signs of yeah, freedom being nurtured.

529
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that comment made me think about, like this,

530
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: maybe another important question or conversation to add to your

531
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: kind of early dating questionnaire, just this idea around is

532
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: it okay for people to kind of have their own

533
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: things going on that have nothing to do with their partner,

534
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: You know, so if I want to do dancing or

535
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: rock climbing or whatever, like, does every activity need to

536
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: be a joint kind of venture or is it okay

537
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: for both people to have interests that really have nothing

538
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 1: to do with the other person.

539
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's a beautiful description of what

540
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: freedom in a relationship could look like. It's two people,

541
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: two individual people coming together and choosing to share life together.

542
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: That choice of sharing a life together and partnering together

543
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: in life does not mean that we are choosing to

544
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 2: do every single activity in our waking moments together, right Like,

545
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: I still have my own visions, my own dreams, and

546
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: my own goals, and I still have my space in

547
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: which I explore or expand, and I still come together

548
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: with you and sharing that life together. So again, like

549
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: that concept of harmony, it could still be two different

550
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 2: individuals working together beautifully and everything doesn't have to be

551
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: in unison. And that's an excellent question as well, because

552
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 2: a lot of people do think that whatever we do,

553
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: we need to do it together. And if you're one

554
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 2: of the people that don't think that, like, that would

555
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: be good for you to get out of the way

556
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 2: from the beginning and be like, Okay, you know there's

557
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: somebody for you, but that may not be me.

558
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

559
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: So what kinds of books or other resources do you

560
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: want to share, doctor D for anybody who maybe wants

561
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: to read up more about this, or maybe they're feeling

562
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: like they're struggling with some of this and want to

563
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: get more information, anything that you really love.

564
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: I like the book The Dance of Intimacy that's by

565
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: Harriet Learner, and that is about you. It teaches you

566
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: different ways and prompts you with a lot of questions

567
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: to look inward in a way that influences your relationships.

568
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: So I would highly recommend that book and then other

569
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: just general books for things that you could do differently

570
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: to make sure that you're showing up intentionally in your relationships.

571
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: Batman John Batman, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work,

572
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: and Sue Johnson's hosting Type.

573
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: Perfect and where can people find you online?

574
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: Doctor D?

575
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: Your website, as well as any social media handles that

576
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: you want to share.

577
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: Yes, I am on most active on Instagram. So that's

578
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: at doctor spelled dr dot d v MFT so doctor

579
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: D the MFT on Instagram. I'm also there the same

580
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: handle on Facebook, YouTube, and my website is doctor dhd

581
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: mft dot.

582
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: Com perfect And of course all of that information will

583
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: be included in the show notes. Well, thank you so

584
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: much for sharing with us, doctor D. I really really

585
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: appreciate it.

586
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: Thank you. It was my pleasure to be here.

587
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: Once again. I'm so glad that doctor D was able

588
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: to join me for this conversation. To learn more about

589
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: her and the work she's doing. Be sure to visit

590
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash

591
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: Session three ninety nine. And don't forget that if you

592
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: have a question you'd like for me to answer on

593
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: the podcast, send me a voice note at Memo dot

594
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and submitted your question

595
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: just might be featured next. This episode was produced by

596
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: Alas Ellis and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.

597
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.

598
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all

599
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care,