1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: The word seminole comes from cimarron, which is runaway in Spanish, 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: and so Cimarron became semihlo, and then that became seminole, 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: and so we were the wild ones, you know, like 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: we broke off and went down to Florida to fight 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: and to get away. 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: In this episode, we're going into the deep water, paddling 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: through some hard hitting history, rife with controversy injustice, highlighting 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: the spirit of resistance and the ferociousness of a man 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 2: when it comes to family and land. We're trying to 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: understand and celebrate the life of a Seminole Indian War 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 2: leader Osceola born in present day Alabama, he fled under 12 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: duress to spend most of his life in Florida and 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: died in a prison in South Carolina at the age 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: of thirty four. He received a global fame in his lifetime, 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 2: and the people of America toasted celebratory drinks to the 16 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: long life of Osceola. But why this vibrant relegade leader 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: fought against the United States and the only war on 18 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: American soil that it didn't win. The bigger story, the 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 2: one behind the man, is the unconquered tribe of the seminoles. 20 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: I really doubt that you're going to want to miss 21 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 2: this one. 22 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 3: I'm intrigued by your choice of the word controversy, because 23 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,919 Speaker 3: there certainly exists controversies concerning Ossiola to this day, which 24 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 3: is part and parcel of the fact that he's still 25 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 3: in the national consciousness and the international consciousness. Do you 26 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: see that little figurine sitting right over there. That's a 27 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 3: statue of Assiola. And about ten years ago a friend 28 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 3: of mine in South Florida was in Belgium and she 29 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 3: found that statuette really Belgium, in Belgium, and it was 30 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: made in Italy, so he was famous all over the world. 31 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: My name is Klay Nukem, and this is the Bear 32 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 33 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 34 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 2: story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land. 35 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: Presented by FHF gear, American made purpose built hunting and 36 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: fishing gear as designed to be as rugged as the 37 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 2: place as we explore. 38 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 3: Please use that glass ashtray as a coaster. There you 39 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 3: go for you, Drake, Yeah, that's okay. I have been 40 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 3: known to leave a ring or on my furniture, and 41 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 3: I'd much rather blame me than you. 42 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'll do the same thing 43 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: when people come over like he's the coaster. I'm in 44 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 2: the home of historian and author doctor Patricia Wickman in Tallahassee, Florida. 45 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: She's a generous and kind woman, but you better be 46 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: on your a game. Of all the people I've interviewed, 47 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:29,559 Speaker 2: from hillbilly's to PhD tote and academics, I've never interviewed 48 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: anyone with more detailed knowledge, passion, and ability to communicate 49 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: about their expertise more than doctor Wickman, and her passion 50 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: is the Seminole Ostiola. As a matter of fact, she 51 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: was the senior historian for the State of Florida and 52 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: the former director of the Department of Anthropology and Genealogy 53 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: for the Seminole tribe of Florida. She's actually a Spanish 54 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: Floridian whose family has been here since the seventeen fifties, 55 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: but she lived with the Florida Seminoles for over a decade. 56 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: She is going to help us immensely in this story. 57 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 3: I was up in Iowa one time some years ago, 58 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 3: where they had a statue of a totem pole, a 59 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 3: pseudo totem pole that had been carved for them by 60 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 3: a man in Branson, Missouri, and it was supposed to 61 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 3: be in honor of Osceola. And I found that absolutely fascinating. 62 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 3: So I'm never surprised to hear anything about him. I'm 63 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 3: never surprised that he exists in the national consciousness. Even 64 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 3: to this day. There are over twenty counties, cities. There's 65 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: even a bridge and a mountain in the United States 66 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 3: named after Ostiola. 67 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: Osceola's legacy, lasting into modern times almost two hundred years 68 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: after his death, shows the impact of his life. But 69 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: here is a mainstream American pseudo totem to, the Seminole Leader, 70 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: and I bet you're gonna recognize him. John Anderson's song 71 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: Seminole Wind was a straight up country hit was nominated 72 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: for the nineteen ninety three CMA Song of the Year. 73 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 2: And if you don't like this song, I'm not sure 74 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: what to say, but it really hits its stride near 75 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 2: the end. Listen who gets a call out by name? 76 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: And the last time I walked in the swamp, I 77 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: sat up on a cypres tum. 78 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 4: I listened pul saying I heard the dose of Seo. 79 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: So he heard the ghost of Ossiola crying. That's powerful imagery. 80 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: And there ain't a person who ever heard that song 81 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: that didn't like that part. But do you even know 82 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 2: who Osciola is what he did up until recently, I'd 83 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 2: have to answer no, not really. But this brings up 84 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: too interesting and old points that we've got to address 85 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: at the top. Number one, Americans have always been enamored 86 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: with Native American leaders, treating them almost like comic book 87 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: characters or mythical creatures. In the eighteen hundreds, even while 88 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: our government was at war width and systematically moving them 89 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: to Oklahoma, America couldn't read enough and see enough about Indians. 90 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: This trend rolled into the twentieth century. It's an odd 91 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: philosophical position, idolizing people you were displacing and trying to kill. 92 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: If you remember to Kumsa, the Shawnee had national fame 93 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 2: in his life and was viewed as a noble foe 94 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: of America. At the end of his life, when he 95 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 2: was in prison, the nation's most famous painters were lined 96 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: up at the door ten deep to paint his portrait, 97 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: and when he died, his possessions, and even parts of 98 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 2: his body were stolen, sold and touted his showpieces, including 99 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: his head, which is still missing. It seems like America 100 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: liked the golden egg but didn't want the goose. The 101 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: romantic idea of a free people unaffected by modernity, living 102 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: independently and harmoniously off the land was appealing. We actually 103 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: grafted some of that into American identity, which differentiated us 104 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: from the stuffy aristocracy of Europe from which we'd come. 105 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: But we couldn't have unassimilated people who didn't want to 106 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: be part of America living here. We'd rather just have 107 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: stories about how they used to live here, and we 108 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: couldn't have him living here, especially if they owned land. 109 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: And did the Native Americans ever own some prime real estate. 110 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: The second consideration I said there were two, is how 111 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: Americans were constantly in search of individualistic heroes that validated 112 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: our national value system. We are so enamored with individualism 113 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: that we don't know that there is even another way 114 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: to view the world. But the Native people didn't have 115 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 2: this individualistic view. I was helped to see this by 116 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: Shawnee Chief Ben Barnes a couple of years ago when 117 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: we did that to comes the series. He basically said, 118 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: you people are always trying to sensationalize individuals, but we 119 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: see them as a product of their community, standing on 120 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 2: the shoulders of others that they can't be separated from. 121 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: Do you remember the grammatical structure of the Shawnee language, 122 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 2: giving precedents to verbs rather than nouns, like actions rather 123 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: than people, meaning They're most interested in what God done, 124 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: not who did it. In English, you would say Susie 125 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: made the soup, with an emphasis on who did it. 126 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 2: Susie did it. They might say the soup was made, 127 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: and who made it? Really wasn't that important. I'm attempting 128 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: to not tell Osceola's story through these historic tropes, but 129 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 2: it's almost impossible not to. I just want to learn 130 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: who this guy was and why people today are still 131 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: so interested in him. I do know one thing, and 132 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: that's that I've found some great people to help tell 133 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 2: this story. One of them is my friend from Oklahoma, 134 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: Muskogee Creek and Seminole Sterling Harjoe. I asked him when 135 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 2: he first would have known about Ostiola. 136 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: I don't remember when I first heard about him. It's 137 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: early enough that I don't remember I just knew that 138 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: he was our leader. He's our number one leader that 139 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: we think of. Even though there were a lot of 140 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: other leaders, he was the one that was very popular. 141 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: Ewoch Kelly Haynes's a painter. He painted the painting who 142 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: was also a former chief. He painted the painting of 143 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: Oceola stabbing the treaty and I remember that being a 144 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: very striking painting that I always remembered growing up. But 145 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, just sort of this ultimate just some I 146 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: mean like he died under like a banner of you know, 147 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: flag of truce, you know, which supposedly outraged people that 148 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: he was tricked. He's the ultimate sort of he. I mean, 149 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: he died for me to be alive. I think that 150 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: that's a part of the fabric of whether that was 151 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: ever said to me or not. I felt that. 152 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 2: There's a famous moment in Osceola's life when he went 153 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: to sign Paynes Treaty with the United States government in 154 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 2: eighteen thirty two, but rather than signing it, he stabbed 155 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: a knife into the paper contract. It's interesting because many 156 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 2: historians say that this actually didn't happen, but the Seminoles 157 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: say that it did. And you're in lies the trouble 158 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: with history. But Sterlin did answer my question. This leader's 159 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: legacy was built into the everyday lives of the Seminoles. 160 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: And I'd like to introduce you to Jake Tiger, a 161 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: twenty six year old Creek Seminole living in Oklahoma. He's 162 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: got something to say about history. 163 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of a lot of Anglo history is 164 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 4: kind of mostly written documentations, and with American Indians ours 165 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 4: is just oral traditions. So that's why there's always a 166 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 4: big discussion of yeah, authenticity, what's what's reputable and then 167 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 4: what's you know, what's a legit source and so, and 168 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 4: some people are actually coming around to that, you know, 169 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 4: they're they're starting to understand that these you know, PhD 170 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 4: you know, ethnologists, anthropologists there, their stories don't line up 171 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 4: with the tribal communities actually have to say stuff that 172 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 4: actually happened. Because we have to remember also at the 173 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 4: same time, when whenever these different anthropolgy and different Indian 174 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 4: agents of the time, they didn't understand the culture. They're 175 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 4: just writing down what they're seeing, and so that's most 176 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 4: of its kind of speculation too. So even though as 177 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 4: historians we do like to refer back to first hand documentation, 178 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 4: and we always kind of take with a grain of salt. 179 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: There are many problems when comparing oral history to written documentation, 180 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 2: but I think we have to acknowledge that it's a 181 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 2: real thing. Let's do it hypothetical. Imagine someone from a 182 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 2: far away country, let's just say it's in Asia, who 183 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: did not speak English, came to your house, went to 184 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 2: church with you, watched you eat, marry, discipline your children, 185 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: and observed your politics, and then they got to be 186 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 2: the ultimate authority on your culture and history. How accurate 187 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: could that even be? And what if they actively wanted 188 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: your land and had the power to take it. Could 189 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: a narrative be crafted that was advantageous to their goals? 190 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 2: But at the same time, many observations don't need cultural interpretation. 191 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: They simply happened or they didn't. And we all know 192 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: that oral stories have a tendency to change over time, 193 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 2: get exaggerated, and can also be crafted into complementary narratives. 194 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 2: Most non Indian historians believe Osceola actually didn't stab the 195 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: treaty paper, but Sterling saw the painting. Whether it happened 196 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 2: or not, it imprinted him with a cultural doctrine. Doctor 197 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: Wickman has dedicated decades of her career to understanding Ostola. 198 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 2: She is not a seminole, nor does she speak for them, 199 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: but she's undoubtedly a national authority on the known details 200 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 2: of his life. She's now going to get as started 201 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,599 Speaker 2: in understanding the historical context. This story starts with the 202 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 2: Muskogee Creek people in Alabama and a figure familiar to 203 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: bear Grease. 204 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 3: First and foremost, I think we have to look at 205 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: the collision of the man and the times. I think 206 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 3: those two elements are exceedingly important. So my elder son 207 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 3: fusses at me. He said to me one time, how 208 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 3: come I ask you for the name of that flower 209 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 3: and you have to begin by giving me the geology 210 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 3: of the hill. 211 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: That's perfect. We're going to get along gray. 212 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: So that's what I do. But if you understand the setting, 213 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: if you have the matrix, then nothing is going to 214 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 3: seem irrational to you, and you're going to make better 215 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 3: sense out of the whole entire story. 216 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: All right. 217 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 3: There was the War of eighteen twelve, which touched the southeast. 218 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 3: There was to Kumsa and his movement to try to 219 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 3: push white people off the continent, and in eighteen eleven, 220 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 3: to Kumpsa came down to the Mushkogi or the Mushkogalghi 221 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 3: people in the southeast in order to bring them the 222 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 3: word of his brother Tinshguatua. Now the Seminoles say that 223 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 3: Tenshquatua means the open door. But he came to a 224 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 3: town called Tugibaji, and it was literally right across a 225 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 3: creek from the little village of Tarashi, which is the 226 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 3: village where Aciola was born. What he was preaching was 227 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 3: that white people had no business here and that they 228 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 3: were going to destroy the world for the Indians, and 229 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 3: they wanted He wanted all the Indians to rise up 230 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 3: against them and push them out. Unfortunately for the Mushkogalghi, 231 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: the Mushkogi people, there was a white government agent in 232 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 3: the lower portion of what we diday called Georgia and Alabama. 233 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 3: His name was Benjamin Hawkins, and he was preaching peace. 234 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 3: He wanted the Indians to stay calm, to build houses, 235 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 3: to become an agrarian society, to assimilate. Unfortunately for him 236 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 3: and for the Indians, there was a large number of 237 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 3: the ancestors of Osceola who took the talk of Tukumsha. 238 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: Talking the talk of Tecumsa meant one thing. War. Tecumsa 239 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: led a nativist revival, traveling like an evangelist from the 240 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 2: Great Lakes to Alabama, preaching with ground shaking conviction that 241 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: the Indians should not assimilate and should go back to 242 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: their traditional ways. They should quit wearing white man's clothes, 243 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: use bows and arrows for hunting, even start making fire 244 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: in the traditional ways. He garnered a Pan Indian multi 245 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: tribe confederation that was the largest Indian army to ever 246 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: stand against the United States. To this day, he's considered 247 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: one of the greatest orators in American history. Though there 248 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 2: are no recordings of his voice, there are transcripts of speeches, 249 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: but it was primarily gauged by how he could move 250 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 2: people to action. I'd like to remind you that to 251 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: Come to was a twenty twenty two inductee into the 252 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: Bear Grease Hall of Fame. It appears Osceola's life was 253 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: influenced by him. Here's more from Jake Tiger. 254 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I've talked to you A couple of people 255 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 4: here in similar nation. They even talk to my Shawnee friends, 256 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 4: you know, the importance that to come fifth, his impact 257 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 4: had on Muskogee Creeks. He played a pretty big role. 258 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 4: He came to the different towns and it is documented 259 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 4: and then they're most likely would have been a young 260 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 4: Osceola kind of sitting out there listening to it to 261 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 4: come to give kind of delivered his message, and that 262 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 4: kind of resonated probably with him, and so it's kind 263 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 4: of cool to think about we see those kind of 264 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 4: it's kind of like a spiderweb of different stories and 265 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 4: historical aspects. He would never think about until you kind 266 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 4: of really fall down a rabbit hole that he might 267 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 4: have been present when to come to had come to 268 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 4: that troubled town to give his speech. 269 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 2: Tecumsa came to the Alabama Creeks in eighteen eleven, two 270 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: years before his death. Osciola was likely born in eighteen 271 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 2: oh four, so he would have just been a child 272 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 2: when Takamsa was there, but undoubtedly his family took the 273 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 2: talk of the Nativist revival at a critical time in 274 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 2: Osceola's life. Recent human development research has highlighted the years 275 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 2: of nine to thirteen as critical years for building lifelong identity, 276 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 2: maybe the most important period of a young person's life. 277 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: This time period for Ostiola would have been the years 278 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 2: seeing his family implement the talk of Tkumson, and we'll 279 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 2: see that impact throughout his life. He would rather die 280 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: than assimilate, and he did. Here's something really interesting from 281 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 2: that you might not have seen coming. 282 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 4: So I'm related to Usia Hoola through my mother's side 283 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 4: through her father from our Powell family. Because Oscilla's original name, 284 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 4: or his English name, I should say, was William Powell. 285 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 4: So he had a son that came to Indian Territory 286 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 4: after removal, John Powell, and he had some children, and 287 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 4: then we all kind of settled in the Holdenville area 288 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 4: here in Indian Territory and we've been here ever since. 289 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 4: So we draw that that that direct descendancy from Osceola 290 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 4: through William Powell and John Powell and people like Susie 291 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 4: May and Sissy Katcha, people like those. That's how we 292 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 4: we come from them. 293 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: Jake just dropped two interesting things on us, the first 294 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: being that he's a direct descendant of Ostiola. That is 295 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,479 Speaker 2: very cool. I've also learned that there is controversy around 296 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 2: who Ossiola's descendants actually are, as is often the case 297 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: and war torn displaced people, record keeping becomes complicated. Some 298 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 2: claim that Osciola had no direct descendants, others claim to 299 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 2: be them. Secondly, he told us that Osciola's other name 300 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: was Billy Powell. That is surprising, and we're gonna have 301 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: to come back to that. But I want to get 302 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 2: back to Jake. 303 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 4: Some people will say his name is Ossi Yoholo or 304 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 4: I think that's more of a might be more of 305 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 4: a make a sicky way to say it, given the 306 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 4: name he is Muskogean because he came from Alabama, and 307 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 4: so his true name would be Aussi Yohola, like two words, yeah, yeah, 308 00:20:58,720 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 4: because it's Ossia. 309 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 310 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 2: Here, I hear a pause in there. 311 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's Ussi Yohola. 312 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: And then it was anglicized to. 313 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 4: Yep. Yeah, so now it's it's more people will call 314 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 4: it Oceola. But his original name is Ussi Yehola, the 315 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 4: black drink singer. Yeah, but what with they're referring to 316 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 4: the black drink And all the Southeastern people have this 317 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 4: this plant, the Chickasaws, the Choctaws, muskoge Creeks, u cheese, 318 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 4: they all have this plant. But the black drink is 319 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 4: from the English term yopon holly, but the Miskogean people 320 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 4: we call it osio bokshi. That that's the only caffeinated 321 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 4: plant here in North America. That's only found in the 322 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 4: southeastern part of the United States. Some of you can 323 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 4: find here in Oklahoma. Indian Territory doesn't grow that well 324 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 4: because the climate's here a little too hot for it, 325 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 4: it's a little too dry. But that that plant is 326 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 4: plays a significant role in our ceremonies. 327 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 2: Here's doctor Wickman with more detail on his name. In 328 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: this black drink. 329 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 3: The man who brings this to the medicine man at 330 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 3: the height of the green corn ceremony has to chant 331 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 3: the song of the wolf. The wolf is Yaha. So 332 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 3: his wolf's song is Yahola, and he is called Ashen Yahola. 333 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 3: And that's why English speakers heard it later on, and 334 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 3: they were never allowed to know his baby name. They 335 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 3: knew an English name, Billy Powell. But when you go 336 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 3: through Gingkorn, you get an honorific title, and that's how 337 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 3: you're going to be known from then on. So he 338 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 3: was Ashen Yahola. And when English speakers heard it with 339 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 3: their standard penchant for rearranging everything, they heard Ashen Yahola 340 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 3: became Ashola, and then it became Osceola. 341 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 2: So he was named by his leadership in that ceremony. 342 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 3: He was named by his position. Don't use the word leadership, Okay, okay. 343 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 2: He was by carry the drink to the medicine man. 344 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: He was the Yeah. 345 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 3: Think of an acolyte in a Roman Catholic mass who 346 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 3: brings up the censor that has the incense in it, 347 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 3: or he goes to the priest and he takes in 348 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 3: the patents that are going to be given out as community. 349 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 2: Would that name have been common in the seminole, So 350 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 2: it would have been. 351 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 3: Not common, but there would be a lot of other 352 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 3: people who had gone through their rites of passage. 353 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 2: Who have been called the same thing. Yes, a person's 354 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 2: name is always important, especially with the American Indians. This 355 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: is complicated, but it's now time to understand his genealogy, 356 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 2: whose parents were, and why his name was originally Billy Powell. 357 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 3: One of the white men who came among the Indians 358 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 3: in the Lower Southeast was a man named James McQueen. 359 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: And I've tried very hard to fix on him and 360 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 3: find out exactly who he is, and I think I know, 361 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 3: but the fact is that he was probably a sailor 362 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 3: on a British ship who got into an altercation with 363 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 3: an officer and struck the officer and realized very quickly 364 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 3: that the better part of valor was to get out 365 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 3: of dodge, and he did. But he started moving across 366 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 3: the southeast, and he, as the phrase was in those days, 367 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 3: he sat down with an Indian woman, all right, and 368 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 3: very shortly he became a part of the life of 369 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 3: a little village called Talassia. 370 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: James McQueen was Osceola slash Billy Pal's great grandfather who 371 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: sat down with an Indian woman around seventeen sixteen. He 372 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: was one of the first European traders to the Creeks. 373 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 2: These are matriarchal societies, so the children are heavily influenced 374 00:24:53,480 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: by their mother. James's son, Peter McQueen, Ossiola's grandfather. Half Indian, 375 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 2: half Scottish, but one hundred percent culturally Indian. Are you 376 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 2: with me? You awake this? Peter, his grandfather, was one 377 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 2: of the firebrands, heavily influenced by Tecumsa. He had a 378 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 2: daughter named Nancy, who had a daughter named Polly, who 379 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: married another Scottish trader dude named William Powell. They were 380 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 2: the parents of Billy Powell, later named Osceola. And folks, 381 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 2: this is going to be on a bear grease render 382 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 2: quiz see, you better remember it. I have some questions 383 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 2: about this though. It would it have been common for 384 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 2: a person of European descent to sit with an Indian 385 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: woman and be grafting into the tribe like this. 386 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 3: Well, it's all situational, because depending on how you march 387 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 3: into town, you might be dead before you could get out. 388 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 3: If you came in and required things of them that 389 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 3: they didn't like, you wouldn't come back. And that's a fact. 390 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 3: If you came in the right way, if you wanted 391 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 3: to trade, if you were helpful to them, if it 392 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 3: looked like you might learn their language and stick around 393 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 3: for a while, then there it's a good possibility that 394 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 3: they would be kind to you. Yeah, so yes, that happened. 395 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: Beside which a lot of these were traders and they 396 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 3: wanted the trade. They became addicted, as you can imagine, 397 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 3: to iron pots and not having to flake flint arrows 398 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 3: and having accouterments that they had never had before mirrors. 399 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 2: So it's tom for some interesting math. So Billy Powell, 400 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 2: who would become known as Osceola. He was not. He 401 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 2: was like one eighth Indian. Is that correct. 402 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 3: It's surprising, isn't it. 403 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: Most historians agree that Osceola was one eighth Muskogee Creek 404 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 2: and seven eighths European. And from my limited understanding, most 405 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: of the tribes except this, and what we're going to 406 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 2: learn is that the Muscogee Creeks become the Seminoles. It's 407 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: interesting when you look at the blood quantum requirements of 408 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 2: the tribes today, which it really isn't entirely fair for 409 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 2: us to compare today, how they regulate who's in the tribe. 410 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 2: It's just interesting. So we're going to talk about that. 411 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 2: But this next section just a little heads up for 412 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 2: any young ears in the audience. We are going to 413 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 2: use the term sex a couple of times. 414 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 3: The minimum for citizenship in the Seminole tribe of Florida 415 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: is one quarter all right, one quarter Q. We refer 416 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 3: to it quantum blood quantum. 417 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 2: So I'll steel that wouldn't have qualified. 418 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 3: He wouldn't have qualified today, No, not entirely, not solely 419 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 3: on the basis of blood quantum. No, he wouldn't well, 420 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 3: and yet there was not a person who ever met him, 421 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 3: who ever knew him, who knew what he was about, 422 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 3: who had the vaguest idea of what he was doing, 423 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 3: would have ever called him anything except an Indian. Right, 424 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 3: And it doesn't matter, because you're focusing on something that 425 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 3: non Indians focus on. And you have to understand what 426 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 3: they focus on, because I've seen this before. 427 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 2: They're more focused on the I mean, culturally, he was 428 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 2: one hundred percent Indian. 429 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 3: You got it. 430 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 2: I'm getting two thumbs up, you got so. Yeah, So 431 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 2: they were less focused on the natural, the physical, which 432 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 2: is what our society might. 433 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 3: Look in the first place. Sex wasn't the serious kind 434 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 3: of problem for them that it is for white people. 435 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 3: They're not as prurient in their interests, and as a consequence, 436 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 3: they have a system for pairing people off and for 437 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 3: creating husband wife really chips. But the fact of the 438 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 3: matter is that if a man came in, if the 439 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 3: Mago allowed him to stay, if for any reason he 440 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 3: wanted him to stay, he might see to it that 441 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 3: he had a woman, all right. It might be one 442 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 3: of the migo's own sisters, or her daughter, or his daughter, 443 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 3: and it didn't bother them. What mattered was that it 444 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 3: was an Indian woman, because the child would only have 445 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 3: a clan if it was his mother, who was an Indian, 446 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 3: all right, And it mattered that this child stayed with 447 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 3: the tribe. The child was hers. In the Mushkogi world, 448 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 3: in the seminole world. If a man and woman separate, 449 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 3: he has no right to those children. They're not his children, 450 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 3: they're her children. They stay in her camp with her people. 451 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 2: Okay, I got a question. I'm just I'm dying to 452 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 2: ask you. Okay, Daniel Boone, he was adopted into the 453 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 2: shop Ease and stayed with them for months, and there 454 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 2: was there's very undocumented lore that he had an Indian 455 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: wife and maybe even Indian children. As I'm hearing your 456 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 2: story and I kind of discredit that, I'm kind of like, Nah, 457 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 2: he didn't, Sure he did. Do you know much about Boone? 458 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 2: Do you think no? 459 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 3: No, But I don't doubt that for a moment. 460 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 2: Just knowing what you know about the way that Yeah, 461 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 2: because all the tribes operated. 462 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, because sex isn't the big thing among them. I mean, 463 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 3: it's a natural part of life and that's all there 464 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 3: is to it. Okay, they had other more pressing concerns, 465 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 3: and they had mother more important social tradition, social morays 466 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 3: that required certain things of people, all right, and they 467 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 3: weren't the same things that occur in the non Indian world. 468 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 2: Oh boy, that really stresses me out. I cannot hide it. 469 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: A core component of my worldview. And Biblical doctrine places 470 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 2: a high priority on fidelity to one's wife. And Boone 471 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 2: met Rebecca at the cherry picking in seventeen fifty three 472 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 2: and was married to her for fifty six years, and 473 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 2: they stacked up kids like Cordwood. There is zero documentation 474 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 2: that Boone took a Shawnee wife. It's just what they say. 475 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 2: So here we are again with no written documentation. And 476 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 2: I think it's unfair to assume that Boone would have 477 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: denied his own cultural value system and been unfaithful to Rebecca. 478 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: Boone did read the Bible. We know that because his 479 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 2: son Nathan Boone wrote about his father's conviction about the Bible. 480 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 2: You know what I think now, I'm pretty certain that 481 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 2: Osciola did stab that treaty. I don't care if a 482 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 2: white dude wrote it down or not. I hope you're 483 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: picking up the sarcasm in that comment where I'm crafting 484 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 2: the narrative to fit what I want it to be. 485 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,719 Speaker 2: But moving on, I think it's important to understand the 486 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 2: wider community of oola. Here's doctor Wickman with the etymology 487 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 2: of the name Muskogee Creek, which is functionally the same tribe, 488 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 2: which we'll see is important in understanding who the Seminole 489 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: tribe would become. This is a building block for our story. 490 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 2: And maybe on the quiz. 491 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 3: Do you understand how the word creek came to be. 492 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 3: Mushgogie is not a Mushgogi word, And it wasn't the 493 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 3: Mushgogi people themselves who called themselves Mushkogi. Their enemies just 494 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 3: up the road for them. And what we call the 495 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 3: Carolinas were the Chilogate people. And the English didn't say Chilgate, 496 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 3: they said Cherokee, all right. It was the Cherokee people 497 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 3: who looked down at their enemies in the lower South 498 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 3: and called them the Mushkogi or the Mushkogogy. The people 499 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 3: of the swampy ground, the people who traveled in canoes. 500 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 3: And if you have as much swamp and as much 501 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 3: water as we have in the Southeast, then a canoe 502 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 3: makes much more sense than a horse does. 503 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 2: Okay, but what about the name creek. 504 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 3: There were two creeks that came together. One was the 505 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 3: Ogeeche and the other was ocone Creeks. And so the 506 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 3: traders would write back to Charleston and they would say, 507 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 3: we're going out to see the Indians on the Oconee 508 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 3: and Ogeechee creeks. And then a few years later they'd 509 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 3: get tired of that, and they'd say we're going out 510 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 3: to see the Indians on the creeks. And pretty soon 511 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 3: they just said we're going to the creeks. So the 512 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 3: word creek was just a shorthand way of talking about 513 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 3: the Indians who lived in great numbers in this particular area. 514 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 2: All Right, It's amazing how whittled down and simplified and 515 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 2: unconnected that a name can become. 516 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely and we look at it today, and because you 517 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 3: don't know what's behind it, you don't know the trajectory 518 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 3: of that of that term, then it's very very easy 519 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 3: to ascribe new meanings to it and to change the 520 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 3: whole entire history just because you don't have the opportunity 521 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 3: to learn. 522 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 2: Now, this is a real digression. Is the phrase lord 523 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 2: willing and the Creeks don't rise. Is that connected to 524 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 2: the Creek Civil War? 525 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 3: Not that I know of. 526 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 2: Okay, I saw that on the internet and my gut 527 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 2: told me that it wasn't true. But here's what's going 528 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,439 Speaker 2: on with the Muscogee Creeks in Alabama. And remember all 529 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: this is building a foundation for us to understand Osciola's life, 530 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 2: which could ultimately be summarized by resistance to assimilation and 531 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 2: fighting for land. And remember Benjamin Hawkins was the Muscogee 532 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 2: Creeks US Government Indian agent. 533 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 3: So Benjamin Hawkins was trying to keep the southernmost members 534 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 3: of these groups peaceful. He was trying to get them 535 00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 3: to build houses, to build log cabins, and to become farmers. 536 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 3: That did not work out well for most of them. 537 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 3: The northern contingent wanted to go to war. And what 538 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 3: happened in the midst of the War of eighteen twelve 539 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 3: was an Internisne battle that began between there among the 540 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 3: Creek people, and it's called the Creek War of eighteen 541 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 3: thirteen fourteen. It didn't help matters that there were among 542 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 3: the Indians of the southeast many who went and fought 543 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 3: with Andrew Jackson and those who fought against him with 544 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 3: the British in the Treaty of Ghent that finally settled 545 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 3: the War of eighteen twelve. The British required that one 546 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 3: article of that treaty should require the United States government 547 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 3: to return all of their lands to the Mushkoge people. 548 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,280 Speaker 3: They were to give them back because they'd been terribly 549 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 3: dispossessed in the battles and the warfare, and the fires 550 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 3: and the death that were concerned with the War of 551 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 3: eighteen twelve and the Creek War of eighteen thirteen fourteen. 552 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 3: The United States government totally ignored that, totally ignored that, 553 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 3: and began to hand out land to two white settlers. 554 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 3: This would not make life simple for Osceola and for 555 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 3: his people, and as a consequence of that fact, by 556 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 3: eighteen fourteen, his mother and he and probably at least 557 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 3: one sister and maybe other sisters, they had already made 558 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 3: it to Saint Augustine. 559 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 2: Bear Grease scholars this is critical chronology. Osceola, also known 560 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 2: as Billy Powell, was born in eighteen oh four, but 561 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 2: was pushed into Florida out of his native Muscogee Creek 562 00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 2: homeland in Alabama. By Andrew Jackson and the Creek Civil Wars. 563 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 2: He arrived in Florida in eighteen fourteen, when he was 564 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 2: about ten years old. Please take a moment, pause your 565 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:14,479 Speaker 2: listening device and recite those dates. Okay, thanks, welcome back. 566 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 2: I'd like to weave in another interesting Bear Grease character. 567 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 2: David Crockett, who, if you remember, fought under Andrew Jackson 568 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 2: in the Redstick War in Alabama. This is a gruesome 569 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:33,320 Speaker 2: story Crockett recounted in his autobiography when his regiment wiped 570 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 2: out the creek village of Toulousahatchie, setting fire to a hut. 571 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 2: Watching fifty creeks burn alive, he said, an old woman 572 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 2: used her foot on the handle of a bow to 573 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 2: shoot one of the Americans. This was the first man 574 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 2: Crockett ever saw die by an arrow wound. After the 575 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 2: fire died down, Jackson's starving army ate the potatoes stored 576 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 2: under the burned house. Crockett said, and I quote the 577 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 2: oil of the Indians we had burned up on the 578 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 2: day before had run down on them, and they looked 579 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 2: like they had been stewed with fat meat. Crockett never 580 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 2: liked potatoes after that, and he was impacted by the brutality. Later, 581 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 2: he would stake his political career against Andrew Jackson's Indian 582 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,399 Speaker 2: Removal Act, declaring that his decision would quote not make 583 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 2: me ashamed at the day of judgment. This, my friends, 584 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 2: is our conflicted American history. I interpret crockett stance on 585 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 2: the Indian Removal Act to be a redeeming action in 586 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 2: his life, showing his regrets from the Red Stick Wars. 587 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 2: Back to our story. Here is an insightful analogy. An 588 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 2: interesting side note on Muskogee Creek life. 589 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 3: I have looked for years for some image that I 590 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 3: could use to make sense out of this. For people 591 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 3: who don't look at the details, and who don't need 592 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 3: to have the details, I'll tell you the only image 593 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 3: that I've been able to come up with thus far. 594 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 3: Think of a pool table. Think of the balls when 595 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 3: they're set up for the break. Think of the minute 596 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 3: that the que ball hits those balls, and think of 597 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 3: the way they scatter. Now, think of those tribes all 598 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 3: over the Southeastern United States, because that's the way they went. 599 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 3: They did not have, at least as far back as 600 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 3: we can tell, archaeologically and historically, they did not have 601 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 3: any fixed villages. They didn't necessarily have to stay in 602 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 3: one place all their lives. We know, for instance, that 603 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 3: if lightning struck a ballpole, and the ballgame was very 604 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,760 Speaker 3: very important for spiritual and for warfare, for military reasons, 605 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 3: if lightning struck a ballpoll, they would pick up, oh, 606 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 3: probably the major game, and I use that term advanced. 607 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 2: They had a poll. 608 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 3: Was it was the game. But ballgames were frequently a 609 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 3: way of avoiding war, or they were used in place 610 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 3: of war, because one village would play another village and 611 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 3: people would die in this game. They settled disputes, had 612 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 3: they settled disputes, or they claimed territory. And there were 613 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 3: individuals who became such important ballplayers that they were a 614 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,399 Speaker 3: lot like the people in the limelight today, like our 615 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 3: sports stars today. They could travel from village to village 616 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 3: in the province where they belonged, and they could be fed, 617 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 3: they could be offered a night's lodging, They could be 618 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 3: taken care of and treated like real heroes to the people. 619 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 2: Was that unique to the Creeks Muscogee's. 620 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 3: The ballgame occurs in a number of regions. It occurred 621 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 3: among the estecs, and death was a part of potential 622 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 3: death was a part of their game. 623 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 2: Also. Wow, so it's not I interrupted you that's fascinating, 624 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 2: But so if lightning struck one of their ballpoles. You 625 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 2: were talking about how they used the land. 626 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 3: They'd move, they'd move, they'd leave the village. 627 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 2: I did not know that they used sports like this, 628 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 2: having something similar to like professional ball players moving from 629 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 2: village to village. I now want to hear from Sterling 630 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 2: Harjoe about his tribe. He's going to tie the Muscogee 631 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 2: Creek to the Seminole and wrap this all up for 632 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 2: us in a nice little bundle. 633 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: Growing up, that's all I knew was, you know, we 634 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: were Seminol and Creek. Every a lot of people are 635 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: Seminol and Creek, you know. And I'll interchange creek and Muskoge, 636 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, or say Muskoge Creek, but you know, the 637 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: Muscoge Creek was a It was a confederacy of people 638 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: that had the same spiritual views and customs, and I 639 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,800 Speaker 1: just grew up knowing some of the Seminoles. We basically 640 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 1: fled assimilation and European contact and was sort of sparked 641 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: out of a rebellion from the Muskogi Creek Nation, and 642 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: then we went down into Florida to sort of get 643 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: further away to come to sort of helped spark that. 644 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, his philosophies. And we're skipping ahead a little bit, 645 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 2: but you kind of have to understand this now to 646 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 2: piece it all together. But today, as I understand it, 647 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 2: there are two Seminole nations, one in Florida and one 648 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 2: in Oklahoma. We'll learn that some Seminoles never left Florida 649 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 2: while others were forcibly removed to Oklahoma. 650 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: Muscoge Creeks were dealing with that, and you had Upper 651 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: Creeks and lower Creeks who are very divided in how 652 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 1: they upper Creek towns and lower Creek towns who are 653 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 1: very divided, and what they thought culturally we should do 654 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: with sort of European influence, and you know, the Red 655 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: Sticks formed out of the Upper Creeks, and there was 656 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: a rebellion like let's you know, let's fight this and 657 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: let's not assimilate. Well the Seminoles, which I'm sure people 658 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:26,919 Speaker 1: have told you this, but Cimarron, I've always been told, 659 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: you know, we don't have ours. In our language. They 660 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: sound like lah and so the word Seminole comes from Cimarron, 661 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:40,120 Speaker 1: which is runaway in Spanish, and so Cimarron became Simichlo, 662 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 1: and then that became Seminole. And so we were the 663 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: wild ones, you know, like we we broke off and 664 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,760 Speaker 1: went down to Florida to fight and to get away. 665 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 2: I like that, the wild Ones. Here's Jake Tiger summarizing 666 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,280 Speaker 2: and setting up for us the second part of Osiola's life. 667 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 4: And when his people, his mother's family had left Alabama 668 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 4: during the rest of war and had settled into what 669 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 4: is now in president Day of Florida. That was essentially 670 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 4: because Florida was at that time a Spanish territory. Wasn't 671 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 4: you know, the United States territory until eighteen eighteen, And 672 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 4: so they're leaving what was essentially United States Alabama and 673 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 4: jumping the border going into the Spanish colonies. Is because 674 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,960 Speaker 4: the lower Creeks had signed these lands away to the 675 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,319 Speaker 4: United States, and so that enraged a lot of the 676 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,240 Speaker 4: traditional Creeks. Yeah, you have a ruthless administrator that's running 677 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 4: the nation and he's just going on a whole blood campaign. 678 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 4: He wants the Southeastern and American Indians to be annihilated. 679 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,359 Speaker 4: They want them assimilated, they want to removed, and so 680 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 4: that was his whole policy. So you have a young, 681 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 4: young individual, he's a young man now. Elstiola has seen 682 00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 4: what the ties of war have done to his people 683 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,840 Speaker 4: countless time with removal and conflict, and so there's a 684 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,720 Speaker 4: point where he just puts its foot down and takes 685 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:08,280 Speaker 4: the reins. 686 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 2: When Ostiola and his family make it to Florida, the 687 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 2: story really begins to take shape. I don't try to 688 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,520 Speaker 2: understand it, but American Indians highly valued medicine people in 689 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 2: their culture for many things, including war, and these people 690 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 2: were believed to have great supernatural power. This next tidbit 691 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 2: of information will set us up for understanding Ostiola's involvement 692 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,239 Speaker 2: in the Seminole Wars of Florida, which would be a 693 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 2: thorn in the side of America that was never removed. 694 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:50,319 Speaker 3: We know that Aziola was studying medicine and he was 695 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 3: being taught I one of the quite possibly by the 696 00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,680 Speaker 3: oldest and most important and most honored medicine and people 697 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 3: in the entire Southeast. In the sixteenth century, when the 698 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,080 Speaker 3: Spaniards first out here and they began to find out 699 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 3: across the country and create maps. When the explorers were 700 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 3: going through. On one of their maps, they fixed a 701 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:20,839 Speaker 3: town that they called Abeca, but it's a bicca, and 702 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 3: that word affixed it translated from generation to generation with 703 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 3: medicine people who were the descendants of that original medicine 704 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:37,879 Speaker 3: person who was so honored and so powerful that the 705 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 3: entire village was known by his name. So that when 706 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 3: we get down to the time of Asciola, we find 707 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 3: that there is a medicine person named Abaepki, and he 708 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 3: is the medicine man who was teaching Assiola. So we 709 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,400 Speaker 3: know that he had war medicine. It was a source 710 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 3: of great pride to him. Fine ego. Nobody has a 711 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 3: problem with that. 712 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 2: He did. 713 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 3: But he was an exceedingly intelligent person. He had been 714 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 3: raised in an area where he had access to some 715 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 3: very fine social and cultural and intellectual affairs that were 716 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 3: passing in front of him and around him every day. 717 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 3: And he cared about his people, and he took to 718 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:35,279 Speaker 3: himself part of the responsibility to be a warrior and 719 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 3: to fight for them. Well, there's an old controversy, in 720 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 3: another word, an old argument over whether the man makes 721 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 3: the times or the times make the man. In his case, 722 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,759 Speaker 3: it was a collision of the two, and he was 723 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,080 Speaker 3: viewed by the American public as a noble warrior, as 724 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 3: a man who was fighting for his people, and a 725 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 3: man who was treated unjustly at the end of his 726 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 3: life and unjustly in a situation which created the end 727 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 3: of his life, and as a consequence, he has never 728 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 3: been forgotten. 729 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 2: This has set us up well to understand the war 730 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 2: years of Osceola's short life. I can't thank all of 731 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:40,239 Speaker 2: my guests enough, Sterling, Doctor Wickman, Jake, thank you for 732 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 2: sharing what you know about this striking figure in American history. 733 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,359 Speaker 2: The next episode is going to be even wilder. We'll 734 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,760 Speaker 2: be having some trivia on the render, so be ready. 735 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for listening to Bear Grease 736 00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 2: and Brent's This Country Life podcast. Please share our podcast 737 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,879 Speaker 2: with a friend this week leave us a review on iTunes. 738 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,680 Speaker 2: Until next time, keep the wild Places Wild.