WEBVTT - Unlocking Our Quantum Future 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. This season, 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.880 non Smart Talks with IBM, Malcolm Glabwell is back, and 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:10.600 this time he's taking the show on the road. Malcolm 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.720 is stepping outside the studio to explore how IBM clients 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.759 are using artificial intelligence to solve real world challenges and 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:23.000 transform the way they do business. From accelerating scientific breakthroughs 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:27.520 to reimagining education. It's a fresh look at innovation in action, 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:31.720 where big ideas meet cutting edge solutions. You'll hear from 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:36.000 industry leaders, creative thinkers, and of course Malcolm Glabwell himself 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.879 as he guides you through each story. New episodes of 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.280 Smart Talks with IBM drop every month on the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.240 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.920 at IBM dot com slash smart Talks. 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.680 Hello, this is Malcolm Gladwell and you're listening to Smart 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.160 Talks with IBM. Every year, Tech Week brings thousands of 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.600 people together to network and learn about what's emerging across 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:07.000 the technology ecosystem, and at this year's conference in San Francisco, 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.080 I had an amazing opportunity to sit down in front 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.120 of a live audience with Jay Gambetta. Jay has been 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.480 with IBM for years and was recently promoted to Director 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:20.240 of Research. In this job, Jay has an important mission 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.040 helping the company build the future of computing. In the 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.720 last episode of Smart Talks, I began to learn about 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:31.640 quantum computing from IBM Chairman and CEO Arvind Krishna. But 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.160 this conversation I had with Jay went even deeper and 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.960 convinced me that the development of quantum isn't just a fun, 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.520 exciting new paradigm of computing. It may be one of 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:52.920 the most important scientific achievements of my lifetime. Jay, Good morning, morning, 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.320 Welcome to Smart Talks with IBM. Thank you special live 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.840 recording here for tech Week and congratulations. How long have 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:03.560 you been Head of Research at IBM Since October one? 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.480 It's October tenth today, so nine days, nine days. Can 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.160 you just talk a little about the position. This is 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.640 one of the most important positions in research in the world. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.280 IBM Research has been around for eighty years and it's 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:23.359 done some tremendous technology, a lot of inventions and fundamentals 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.560 for semiconductors, algorithms. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:26.560 AI. 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.200 Yeah, I think if we look back to where a 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.600 lot of the innovation and the technology of the world 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.000 comes from. I think you can find Ibram's footprints on it, 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.320 and you can find IBM research. So yeah, I'm very 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.200 excited for the opportunity, but I'm also aware that there's 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.280 big shoes to fill, and I'm looking forward to how 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.120 we take IBM research forward. Obviously, I'm going to be 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:50.880 bringing a lot of the quantum side, which we're going 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.840 to talk about later. Beyond quantum, there's important work that 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.600 needs to happen in AI hybrid cloud, and I think 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.200 we're going to also enter to this new period of 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.440 mathematics where we get to use quantum machines and also 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.800 AI machines, and there's some really good, hard mathematical questions 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:10.360 to answer. 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.080 How many people do you have working for you? 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.200 I mean researchers in the three thousand researchers across many 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.480 different labs around the world. Our main lab is in Yorktown, 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:21.640 but then we have the lab actually out on the 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.120 West coast in Armadan or sbl now, and then we 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.520 have one in Zurich, Japan, and a few others around 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:28.919 the world. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.040 Tell me a little bit before we get into quantum. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.480 I'm just curious about your path. So you're Australian. Yep, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.280 we were talking about earlier backstage. Your accent has become muted. 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.560 You should crank it up because it's. 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.320 Yeah, I'm slowly losing my Australian accent. I've been in 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.360 the US since two thousand and four, so accent, you know, 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.200 to sound very Australian. Yeah, but how do you practice it? 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.280 Maybe I got to go back to Australia. Here a 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.520 more Australians say gooday, how's it going? Things like that. 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.120 And you didn't grow up thinking you're going to be 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:02.480 a scientist one day. Now. 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.600 I grew up in a pretty normal life. My dreams 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.520 as a kid was building things, so I was either 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.600 going to be a carpenter or a mechanic. But I 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.560 had some great teachers that inspired me to go to university. 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.080 And I didn't even know, honestly what a scientist was. 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:22.919 And then I found myself at university doing science, particular physics, 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.200 and I ended up loving it. So you go from 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.479 there to what do you do your PhD? So I 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.440 did my undergrad in Australia. I did it actually in 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:38.040 laser science, so I think I watched some TV show 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.960 in lasers seemed interesting, so I wanted to learn about lasers, 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.599 and then I realized in trying to understand lasers, there 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.000 was this quantum mechanics, and so I was like, all right, 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.279 I want to actually understand this quantum mechanics. So I 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:53.880 did my equivalent of what you and the US school masters. 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.159 We call it honors in Australia, but we do a 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.680 research project. I said, I wanted to shoot lasers into 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.440 Adam and measure cross sections and I got really into 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.080 quantum physics. So then I decided, all right, I don't 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.159 understand this quantum physics. I want to do my PhD 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.880 in Interpretations of quantum mechanics. So I jumped in and said, 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.640 all right, what is this quantum mechanics? Why is everyone 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.360 arguing on these different interpretations. Then I finished my PhD 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.000 in Australia doing that. Then I moved over. At the 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:29.239 end of my PhD interpretations, it's more people arguing about 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:33.360 the equations whilst I think it's really important. I decided 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.040 if it's going to be like a collapse equation versus 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:40.640 many worlds, or a hidden variable model, or that just 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.919 quantum mechanics decoheres because we don't see supersitions in the 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:49.279 everyday world because it interacts with environment. The only way 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.560 to answer that question was to build a quantum computer. 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.600 And so then I decided at the end of my PhD, 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.520 I wanted to work out how to build a quantum computer. 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.760 And then I left there and I went to Yale. 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.440 And then at Yale, that's where I got into superconducting cubits, 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.120 which just a few days ago, one of the professors 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.560 there just won the Nobel Prize this year. 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.400 Oh wow, I'm very interested in tracing because your career 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.800 follows the arc of quantum computing in a certain way. 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.960 Right at the time when you asked the question, what 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:22.640 I really want to do is to figure out how 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.560 to build a quantum computer. Where are we in quantum 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:26.839 computing at that point? 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.880 Yeah, So that would have been nineteen ninety So there 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.760 was Shaw's algorithm came out, let's say ninety five. There 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.800 was a lot of theory. And then the reason I 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:41.040 went to Yale is because people had started to show 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:45.800 that they could see quantum effects in electrical circuits. So 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.240 these macroscopic objects they were starting to behave quantum mechanical 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.800 There was a really significant breakthrough in nineteen ninety nine 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:57.000 where Yazoo Nakamura in Japan showed that a qubit could 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.960 exist in these electrical circuits. I found out the group 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.880 at Yale were really trying to take these electrical circuits 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.960 and couple them together. And so it was like, if 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.840 I can build something using electrical circuits and they're big, 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.720 that that's the best way that you can decide to 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.240 test and understand whether quantum mechanics breaks down at a 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.360 macroscopic scale or not. Can we actually make them behave 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.880 as cubits? And I agree When I came to Yale, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:28.120 the cubits were not very good. They were actually a 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.960 couple of nanoseconds. They were unstable. Electron would jump onto 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.360 the chip and then they would change all their configurations, 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.480 so you have to restart your experiment. And so for 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.800 the first time at Yale, it's kind of what the 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.760 challenge there was, how do we make a cubit? How 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.560 do we make a stable cubit? And that took about 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.120 five years, and that took us up to two thousand 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.160 and seven. And I think the rest of the world 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.240 looks and says quantums like just blowing up, but it's 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:00.920 actually been like almost phases theory showing that wet the algorithms, 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.440 how do we make a cubit? How do we couple 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.240 of the cubits together? And now we're in the scaling phase. 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:11.200 Describe for us because many people in this room, me included, 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:15.000 have only a kind of surface level understanding of what 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.280 we mean when we use that phrase. What is the 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.040 difference between classical computing and quantum computing? What does that 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:21.560 word mean? 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:25.280 Yeah, so you can go down the physics way and 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.280 talk about supersition and entanglement, which we can go in later, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.600 but actually feel it's a bit of a distraction. So 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:36.080 when you think of classical computers, what they were is 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.480 there were machines that were very good at adding numbers together, 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.880 like simple addition, and they really showed that they could 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.600 add these numbers together really really fast. And now with 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.440 GPUs and other AI accelerators, we can add those numbers 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:55.360 together in parallel, and so the whole classical computing can 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:59.160 come down to just arithmetic, just adding numbers together. It 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:03.520 turns out that there's a math that is the quantum 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.640 mechanics shown to be true. It's more like a group 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:10.280 theory type structure, and the way quantum works is it 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.880 has a different math as are primitive, and if we 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.800 can exploit that new math and build a machine that 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.120 does it, it allows us to answer different questions. And 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.640 so think of it as a branching from classical compute 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.440 that is very good at adding just numbers together to 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.880 something that allows us to work with an algebra that 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:33.120 is much much harder to represent with addition. And that 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.320 algebra happens to be the same algebra that defines the 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.920 fundamental equations of nature, shirting this equation. So this is 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.439 why you say it computes the same way nature does, 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.040 but there are many other interesting problems. So the way 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.560 I explain it to people is think of it as 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:54.319 bringing a new primitive to computer science and allowing us 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.440 to work how to go with it. And I like 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:01.360 the analogy. Well, actually, maybe go back. So if you 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.000 went back in time, so we're one hundred years of quantum, 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:06.480 and you went back in time and you asked, what 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.920 is the foundation is a chemistry or physics? What would 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.240 have probably the scientists of one hundred years ago would 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.520 have said is they would have said, you know, chemistry 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.679 is about the small, physics is about planets and things 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:23.120 like this, and one hundred years ago when Heisenberg or Einstein, 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:27.760 all the greats, Schroding her himself invented quantum mechanics. It 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.280 was this concept that nature is discrete, not continuous. It 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.880 actually brought all the physical sciences together. And now quantum 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.600 mechanics is like it is the foundation of the science. 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.480 And so now what quantum computing is by that analogy 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.520 is computer science. The foundation of the math is coming 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.959 together with the physical science to allow us to compute 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.360 using math that if you were to try to represent 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.840 it with classical computers, it takes exponential time. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:00.120 Yeah, and it was a classical computer an expence in 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.360 a way that someone is well informed as I am 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.960 can understand it. A customer computer. It works primarily on 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.880 problems that can be easily represented in numerical form in numbers. Yes, 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.920 quantum allows you to step outside to a class of 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:17.840 problems that don't necessarily have a simple numerical representation. Yeah. 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.560 And so imagine I got some medicine or or some 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.640 set of operation, but call it A, and I then 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.319 follow it by a different operation B. If A followed 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.680 by B gave a different answer than B first followed 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.760 by A. So in mathematics we call that commuting. But 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.600 like you can think of a correlation there one one 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.720 gives you a different outcome to the other. That means 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:46.120 there's an algebra behind it that Representing that algebra traditionally 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:50.040 on classical computers is really really hard, whereas that algebra, 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.800 if we can get creative, we can come up with 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.720 ways of representing that math. So we step as you say, 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.720 we step out aside of the simple math to a 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.200 new to allow us to calculate interesting problems. 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:07.320 So quite in a sense, compliments, it doesn't replace judicial. 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.280 I think this is one of the this is you're 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.200 exactly on is people think quantum is going to be 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.360 replacing classical If your problem is good at adding numbers together, 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:20.080 you should just keep using classical computers. I think the 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.440 future is going to be heterogeneous accelerators, and it will 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.600 definitely have quantum as one. But in some sense, the 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.800 next generation of superstars are going to be those applied 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.760 mathematicians that know, how do I write a problem using 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.199 the simple math of classical computers or the more complicated 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.920 math for quantum computers, and how do I actually iterate 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.720 between them? And things like this. This is where I 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.520 think the next generation of students are going to come 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.520 up with much more novel ideas. I can give you 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.640 examples of what we want to do on quantum, but 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:56.320 like you're giving them a fundamental, foundational new thing, and 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.520 so I'm optimistic they will do much better jobs than 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:00.520 my generation. 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.120 Well, yeah, we're to get to some of the albums 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.600 in a moment. But I wanted you to the most 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.560 kind of down that you said as a kid, you 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.319 thought you might want to be a mechanic because you'd 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:14.040 like to build things. Describe to me what it takes 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.400 to build a quantum computer, Like, what are you doing 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.320 that's different from building a classical computer. 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.199 Yeah, so maybe I'll give you analogy and then I'll 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.720 go in. So the way classical computers, we've got them 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:30.920 to get to smaller and smaller sizes like five seven animeters, 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:35.920 five animeters and things, is actually inventing material to kill 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:40.600 quantum effects. So you actually put dielectrics and other things 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.640 in there to kill the quantum tunneling effects, and you 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:48.560 want them to behave more classically in the quantum world, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.920 you want to get rid of all the classical effects. 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.760 So you want to get rid of the ability of 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.680 the cubits to interact with the environment, and in the 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.080 in the sort of technical world, we call it this 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.360 quantum com The more ways you want to control the 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.640 quantum computer, you open it up to interacting with everything else, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.160 like interacting with its environment. So the biggest challenge has 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:14.760 always been how do we give more control but don't 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.240 bring in other sources of noise. So I want to 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.320 be able to do gates on the cubit, but I 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.720 don't want it to decohere. I want to couple the cubits, 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.320 but I don't want them to couple to other things. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:32.080 So the hardest challenge is the energy inside the cubits 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.440 is a nine gigahertz, and if your tames that by 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.400 HBO ten to the niggave thirty four with nine, you're 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.600 at a tender the negative twenty like three or something 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.080 in energy. That's a tiny amount of energy. So you're 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.280 trying to have a tiny, tiny amount of energy to control, 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.120 and you don't want that to interact with anything. So 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.800 you have to cool them down, you have to isolate them, 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.320 and you have to make the quantum effects dominate over 0:14:58.360 --> 0:14:59.440 the classical effects. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.920 So practically, if I'm trying to do that. Right now, 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:05.080 how big are these machines? 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.840 So the cubits themselves are not that big, So the 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:12.560 cubits themselves are like a few microns. But yeah, most 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:14.960 of the size so you can see some of our 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.200 I got a pleasure of showing you around to one 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.400 of the machines in Yorktown. You saw that they're like 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.880 twenty foot by twenty foot in size. Most of that 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.760 is all that equipment to isolate the cubit chip, which 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.440 is only a few millimeters when you put it together 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:34.320 from the rest of the environment. We will, as we 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.000 get better at that, miniaturize all the isolation. But that's 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.760 cooling it down to a few milli calvin, so about 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.520 a thousand times colder than outer space. It's isolating the 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.280 noise on any electrical signal so that no noise from 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.680 the outside world gets into the system. And so that's 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.120 a lot of isolators, filters, and things like that that 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.960 we've had to invent to allow us to make the 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:00.720 quantum properties of the chip go. 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.840 It's like the Princess and the peak, mounds and mounds 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.480 and mounds of mattresses trying to isolate the impact of 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.200 this little thing and that maybe that's the best way 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:10.840 to describe it. 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.040 Yeah, and you've got to keep it really really prestige. 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.200 But that when you show me. So in the in 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.000 the lobby of the Watson Research Center in New Yorktown, 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.080 which by the way, is just the coolest building. It's 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:27.880 like a it's like a modernist it's awesome master piece. Anyway, 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.120 in the lobby there is there are these is it 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:31.480 two machines. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.120 It's it's inside a container that has three machines. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.360 Three machines, So what can you can you tell me 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.720 what would one of those machines cost to build right now? 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.520 So typically we put them together in a way where 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.720 we upgrade them because we want to as I as 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.000 I was talking about before, one of the things we 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.640 want to do is always get algorithms done on our machines. 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.320 And I've got a roadmap of building bigger and bigger machines. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.320 So usually one of those quantum processors today is out 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.439 of date in six months. So we want to build 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.480 this future of computing that leverages quantum computing where every 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:16.199 six months we've outdated a quantum processor. Eventually, hopefully we 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.280 get to a point where it's like stable and it 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.640 can be many years operating. But we want to get 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.959 as large a quantum computer in the hands of people 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.159 to explore the math as possible to come up with 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.080 those new algorithms. So we've had a philosophy of having 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.919 them open, working with universities and things like that. So 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.119 to answer a question of costs, yes, there's cost in 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.320 building the system, but we are operating in them much 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.320 more in a service model where people pay to use 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.159 the machine because we have to continuously calibrate it and 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:52.360 operate it and so depending on various different things. Professors, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.920 we have a credits program where they get free access. 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.080 Some universities and enterprises they can buy premium access and 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.399 get more access. So think of not like a cost 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.480 of it, because it's almost like a continuum. I want 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.480 to make sure that the best quantum processors that I 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:12.160 can build get in the hands of students and professors 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.440 and interested enterprises that want to explore these machines as 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:20.200 fast as possible. And typically every six months we upgrade it. Yeah, 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.360 you don't start over, you upgrade. We upgrade various different pieces, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.240 the processor, the electronics. Some upgrades are just simply replaced 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:33.359 the processor. But as an example, I think many people 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.920 have probably seen photos of quantum computers and you see 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.440 this scary thing with all these wires hanging down, as 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.040 I've referred to as the chandelier, and it's got all 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.320 these wires with loops and things like that. They're called 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.320 co x cables. When we first put the quantum computer 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.400 on the cloud in twenty sixteen, you could probably only 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.920 fit about fifty cubits inside one cryostat. We've had to 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.920 upgrade all those cables so that we can fit around 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:03.000 one thousand to get to three thousand, and that's about minaturizing. 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.120 So to answer your question, an upgrade, it depends. It 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.760 can be just the processor or it can be the 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.600 complete insides. And we're actually in our third generation of 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.320 our electronics to control the systems to make them faster, 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.639 less noise. Internally. We've got exciting results of going to 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.479 something like cold cryocemos. So you can bring down the 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.440 cost in terms of energy of running these quantum computers 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.440 almost to negligible, and you could imagine future quantum computers. 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.639 I'm not going to require much energy to run, so 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.800 unlike classical compute that requires lots of energy. The biggest 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.440 machines that we envision is only in the few megawatts, 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.000 but we have to upgrade to future controls that use 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:50.920 less energy. So it depends it's my long answer, short 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.840 answer to how it upgrades, and it depends on what 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:54.199 it is. 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.320 The only observation that I felt I was capable of 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.119 making when you showed me the quantum machine is it's gorgeous. 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:02.560 I look a art. 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.399 I've always believed that, and I think that there's an 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.520 IBM saying good design is good business. But we've always 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:14.240 taken pride in making sure what we build. I don't know, 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.840 I feel if you're going to build something that is new, 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:21.560 that can change, you should take the time to make 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.040 sure it looks and feels good. 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.520 Will you donated to MoMA when you're through with that particular? 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.479 Actually, I think we just put an old version of 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:36.159 one of our insights with the United Airlines and the AAPS, 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.080 which is the American Physical Society and the University of Chicago. 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.240 There's a replica right now. If you fly into one 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.280 of the terminals in Chicago, you can walk and see one. 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:47.920 Oh really, yeah, well the most advanced thing at a 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:49.120 air I'm sure. 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.200 Probably, but yeah, I hopefully. I think, yeah, we're open 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.800 to that. But yeah, I appreciate that you love the design. 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.280 It was beautiful. So I last week I interviewed for 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:05.080 another episode Smotox, your CEO, Ivin Krishne, and when we 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.480 got to the quantum question. I mean, he's always alliant 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:13.800 and brilliant, and but quantum, he's like lit up. I 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:17.639 mean right in thinking that IBM is much more invested 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.800 in quantum than anybody else. Is that a fair statement? Oh? 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:21.840 Yeah, most definitely. 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.320 Why Why did IBM choose to kind of make this 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:26.200 such a priority. 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.639 So when I took to the history of the physics side, 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.400 there's this interesting thing in the history of computing. So 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:37.600 we build computer like classical computers today using bits and 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.640 ce moss, and they consume energy. Do you know that 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.720 there is a way in classical where you can actually 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:48.200 compute without using energy. It's called reversal computing. Turns out 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:52.040 to be a terrible idea, it's not practical to build. 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:57.320 But IBM investigated that with Ralph Laura and Charlie Bennett 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.920 early on, and they proved the concept that we're versable computing. 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.879 The first use of quantum information theory. One of the 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:08.440 first actually was from IBM. When I did my PhD, 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:12.480 I remember actually picking up this paper on quantum teleportation 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:15.480 and seeing IBM written there, and at the time I 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.040 remember thinking that they make PCs. Well, what the hell 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:23.240 are they doing this foundational paper on quantum teleportation? Why 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.800 are they doing it? So to answer your question, actually, 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:30.360 IBM was the first in quantum information science because it's 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:34.280 the fundamental of computation. Can we actually come up with 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:38.639 compute that we can go beyond the classical So way 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.679 before anyone was talking about it, they were doing fundamental theory. 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:46.119