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Speaker 1: He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson show

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Speaker 1: on your twenty four to seven home of the Black

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Speaker 1: and Gold SNR Steelers Nation Radio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Drive.

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Speaker 3: I'm Dale LOLLI he is Matt Williamson and Matt it's

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Speaker 3: a well, it's a hazy Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: Here in Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 1: We're getting a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Getting a little smoke fallout from up north.

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Speaker 3: And while we're on the subject of up north, how

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Speaker 3: about that for a little segue.

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Speaker 1: Look at that's okay.

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Speaker 3: I sent you a little nugget that I saw today

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Speaker 3: from Twitter, and it was a little thing that Aaron Schatz,

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Speaker 3: our friend from Football Outsiders, tweeted out somebody asked him

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Speaker 3: for the best quarterback seasons in Brown's history since nineteen

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Speaker 3: eighty one. Yeah, and so he went back with using

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Speaker 3: Football Outsiders metrics and all that stuff and looked up

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Speaker 3: their best seasons and surprisingly enough, Jacoby Brissett in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two in terms of Football Outsiders Dvoa.

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Speaker 2: Was number four.

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Speaker 3: For the Browns since nineteen eighty one in what.

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Speaker 2: He did last season.

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Speaker 3: So that led me down the roadmat that you know,

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Speaker 3: people were talking about, you know how the Browns are

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Speaker 3: going to be so much better this year because Deshaun

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Speaker 3: Watson is going to be so much better.

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Speaker 2: And he's going to do this, and he's gonna do that.

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Speaker 3: Is he gonna think be markedly better than what Jacoby

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Speaker 3: Brissette was last year.

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Speaker 1: That's a great question, and not to kill the Browns,

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Speaker 1: but I did that, just pulled that tweet up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the main on this list aren't all that remarkable. Kobe

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Speaker 1: Brissett coming and forth, good for him. He had a

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Speaker 1: really good year, but he only came behind Burkozar in

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Speaker 1: eighty seven, Bernie Cozar in eighty six, and Vinnie Testaverdi

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Speaker 1: in ninety five and edged out Derek Anderson in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of Kozars, and Jock Anderson was a

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Speaker 3: was a pro bowler in that in that season.

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Speaker 2: They were good that year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were good that year. Yeah. But that's just

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Speaker 1: remarkable that that's the history of the best quarterbacks in

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Speaker 1: that town basically since Auto Graham.

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Speaker 2: Yea once again.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, they had an opportunity to draft

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Speaker 3: Ben Roethlisberger and in two thousand and four didn't do

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Speaker 3: so uh because you know, because they had Jeff Garcia

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Speaker 3: in place. It's just a comedy of airs and has

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Speaker 3: been for a long time. And I bring this up

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Speaker 3: on Steelers Nation Radio because I thought, you know, we

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Speaker 3: do talk about the other teams in the division.

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Speaker 2: Of course that that just struck me, as all the people.

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Speaker 3: That are out there, well, the Browns are going to

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Speaker 3: finish ahead of Steelers this year. They're going to do

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Speaker 3: this or this is their year, blah blah blah, they

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Speaker 3: might win a division.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 3: Is Deshaun Watson going to come back this year and

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Speaker 3: play remarkably or markedly better than what Jacoby Brissett did

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Speaker 3: last year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a great way of phrasing it.

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Speaker 1: Because Brissette was good. It wasn't like, oh he's fine

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Speaker 1: for a backup. He played very well last year and

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Speaker 1: that he underciated player.

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Speaker 2: Here were his numbers from last year.

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Speaker 3: He completed sixty four percent of his passes for two thousand,

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Speaker 3: six hundred and eight yards. That's in eleven games, eleven starts,

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Speaker 3: so he averaged he averaged one hundred and sixty three

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Speaker 3: yards passing per game.

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Speaker 2: Now, they were a run heavy team. That's okay, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But I was gonna go with that. Next

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Speaker 1: is by all indications, off season moves stuff that's being

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Speaker 1: reported by guys in the know. Matthew Berry from the combine.

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Speaker 1: You know, everyone is saying in every indication is they're

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Speaker 1: going to change how they play football on offense as well,

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Speaker 1: that they want to go spread to Sean in the

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Speaker 1: shotgun like he was at Clemson, throwing the ball a

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Speaker 1: higher percentage less Nick Chubb. They let Kareem Hunt walk,

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Speaker 1: and I get it. I mean this league is about

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Speaker 1: catering to your quarterback as much as possible. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's no playing quarterback is hard. Make life easier on

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Speaker 1: your quarterback is totally understandable. And you jumped in the

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Speaker 1: deep end that is unbelievably deep on this guy. You

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Speaker 1: better make it work no matter what. But down playing

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Speaker 1: what Nick Chubb can do and putting it on Watson's plate, it's.

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Speaker 2: A little foolish. If you ask me, I think it's.

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Speaker 1: Crazy, right right, I mean Chubb is your best.

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Speaker 3: Guy, yeah, I mean he's your best offensive player. I

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Speaker 3: don't I don't care.

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Speaker 2: He's one of the best. You know, if not the

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Speaker 2: best pure runner in the league.

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Speaker 3: And you're gonna you're gonna say, Okay, well we're not

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Speaker 3: gonna use him as Much's silly.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy to me. It's crazy to me. I mean

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Speaker 1: that was the good thing that was working. And right

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Speaker 1: you mentioned DVA. I mean, I'm gonna look it up

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Speaker 1: real quick. But I was checking it out the other day.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about, you know, offense and defensive d

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Speaker 1: v oas, and the Browns were really high. I mean

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Speaker 1: they were a top ten offense despite after Watson came back.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was a bad group, you know when

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Speaker 1: he was there, and now they're getting away from the

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Speaker 1: things that worked last season. I don't quite understand it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know Brissett, he had a two to one

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Speaker 3: touchdown to interception ratio. Okay, well, touchdown six interceptions, you

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Speaker 3: have a seven point one yards per pass attempt, eleven

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Speaker 3: point one yards per completion.

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Speaker 2: I mean those are really good numbers.

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Speaker 1: Really good numbers. So I just found it real quick.

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Speaker 1: Is in terms of VA, the Browns offense seventeen games

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Speaker 1: start to finish, was eighth in the league. They were

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Speaker 1: the twelfth best passed DVOA and six best rushing DVOA

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Speaker 1: and that includes what five games of Watson or whatever.

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Speaker 1: That were miserable, like six games. Yeah, six, I mean,

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Speaker 1: so eleven of the seventeen games boosted this up more

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Speaker 1: than the others. And they're not going to do that.

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Speaker 1: Like we're not happy with the eighth best offense. We

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Speaker 1: think we can get the two and to downplay Chubb

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Speaker 1: or whatever, I like, I mean, it just isn't real

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Speaker 1: logical to me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when those in the eleven games that Jacoby Brissett started,

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Speaker 3: he was sacked twenty four times. Now, I bring that

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Speaker 3: up because everybody likes to talk about Watson. If you

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Speaker 3: look at his career numbers, he was sacked in six games,

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Speaker 3: the six games that he started last year for the

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Speaker 3: Browns twenty times.

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Speaker 1: Wow, behind a good line.

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Speaker 2: Behind was considered to be a good line.

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Speaker 3: Now Bresset again, Brissette in eleven games was sacked twenty

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Speaker 3: four times in six games. Watson was sacked twenty times.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of who he is.

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Speaker 1: It is. It is for better or worse.

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Speaker 3: He was sacked if you look at it in twenty

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Speaker 3: eighteen sixty two times.

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Speaker 2: That led the league. That was his first year as

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Speaker 2: a full time starter.

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Speaker 3: His second year, in fifteen games, forty four sacks in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty, the last full season that he played sixteen games,

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Speaker 3: forty nine sacks.

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Speaker 1: Wow. So I was wrong about Watson coming out of school,

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Speaker 1: but I was not particularly high on him. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in that quarterback class, there were several I liked better.

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Speaker 1: But my worries about him coming out of Clemson were

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Speaker 1: he was pretty aggressive with the football and didn't have

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Speaker 1: a giant arm to drive it into small areas. But

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Speaker 1: along those lines, he was also amongst the longest in

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Speaker 1: terms of time to throw of that group. And that

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Speaker 1: includes Mahomes who's running around like crazy, like holds the

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Speaker 1: ball a long time behind the line of scrimmage to

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Speaker 1: make the big play where a checkdown would do just fine.

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Speaker 1: And he got better at it at Houston, and when

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Speaker 1: he was in his best, he was pretty good at everything.

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Speaker 1: No doubt, I was wrong about Watson. But if he's

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Speaker 1: back to those type of habits and not playing with

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Speaker 1: timing getting the ball out, that's a concern.

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Speaker 2: It's it's definitely a concern.

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Speaker 3: And I had him as my number one quarterback in

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Speaker 3: that in that class, I had him with Homes, as

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Speaker 3: it were. But you know I liked him more than

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Speaker 3: you do. I think he's a heck of an athlete.

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Speaker 3: I think he is. You know, he's a winner. I

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Speaker 3: get that, sure, at least he was in college. But

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Speaker 3: if you look at his career record as a starter,

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Speaker 3: his last yea everybody, you know, twenty twenty, he led

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Speaker 3: the league in passing yards. He had forty eight hundred

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Speaker 3: passing yards. They had a four and twelve record.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean they were.

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Speaker 2: Playing from behind a lot.

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Speaker 1: A lot, and the Texans aren't a model organization, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean we he was not always surrounded

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Speaker 1: with great players, YadA YadA, and there was a stretch there.

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Speaker 1: I thought he was before the s at the fan,

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Speaker 1: I thought he was a top five quarterback, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I thought he was at his best in

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Speaker 1: his NFL career. Wasn't Mahomes, but was a tier behind

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Speaker 1: those guys. But he's a long way from that now,

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Speaker 1: is my point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you look at the numbers again, playing

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Speaker 3: in the same offense that Chakobe Brissett played in last year,

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Speaker 3: mh and with that apples apples, he completed fifty eight

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Speaker 3: percent of his passes last year.

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Speaker 2: Brissett was at sixty four percent.

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Speaker 3: In his six games, he averaged one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 3: three point seven yards per game. Brissett was at one

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Speaker 3: sixty three. He had seven touchdown passes in those six games,

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Speaker 3: which is very much online with the twelve that Brissett

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Speaker 3: had in his eleven starts, hit five interceptions in those games.

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Speaker 3: They average the same exact yards per completion eleven point one.

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Speaker 3: But Watson's yards per a temp was six point five,

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Speaker 3: whereas Brissett was at seven point one MA and and

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Speaker 3: he got sacked twenty times.

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Speaker 1: He got sacked twenty times. And where I'm going with

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Speaker 1: this is we know Watson's the starter, but Brissett isn't

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Speaker 1: there anymore. I mean they have financial issues. Josh Dobbs

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Speaker 1: or Thompson Robinson, the rookie out of UCLA are going

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Speaker 1: to be the backup. So and why I bring that

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Speaker 1: up is, I mean nobody's worried about Josh Allen's backup

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Speaker 1: or Mahome's backup. But like Sean Payton comes to Denver

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Speaker 1: and looks at a quarterback experiment that failed miserably the

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Speaker 1: year before and immediately goes signed Jared Stidham. You know,

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Speaker 1: I mean a guy that at least has a chance,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it's sink or swim in a huge

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Speaker 1: manner for the Browns and Watson, and they're either all

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Speaker 1: gonna get fired or they're going to be really really good,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think there's really any in between, and

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Speaker 1: financially the windows slam shut after this year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 3: You know, for example, if joh well we know what

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Speaker 3: Josh doubbs, where he would be at if he were

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Speaker 3: on the Steelers roster right now in terms of quarterback depth,

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Speaker 3: he'd be clearly be the fourth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe if you squint real hard, you could.

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Speaker 3: Say, well, maybe they would keep Dorian Thompson Robinson over

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Speaker 3: Mason Rudolph because of his upside, or if they if

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Speaker 3: they had drafted Dorian Thompson Robinson, maybe they don't re

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Speaker 3: sign Mason Rudolph, right right, right, But they wouldn't have

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Speaker 3: expected him to potentially play this year, right, you know,

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Speaker 3: like he wouldn't be the number two.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like I commended the Browns for using a fifth round

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Speaker 1: pick on Thompson Robinson because they have to have a

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Speaker 1: cheap backup for the next four years or whatever. Because

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Speaker 1: Watson's seventy million dollar a cap hit you know, you

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Speaker 1: can't afford Trubisky and behind him or Brissett, there's a

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Speaker 1: guy like that, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what so even his and I

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Speaker 3: don't know that the QBR stuff, I have no idea

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Speaker 3: how that's computed. Yeah, like I have a good idea

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Speaker 3: of how passer rating is computed, because it's just it's

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Speaker 3: been the standard for so long.

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Speaker 2: But ESPN has the QBR.

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Speaker 3: Even in twenty twenty, when Watson threw for forty eight

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Speaker 3: hundred yards and had thirty three touchdown passes and seven interceptions,

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Speaker 3: his QBR rating was sixty three point seven. Jacoby Brissett's

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Speaker 3: QBR rating last year was sixty sixty point zero. So again,

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Speaker 3: where are you getting this market improvement at the quarterback position?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's I think that's the best

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Speaker 1: way to look at it. We know they're going to

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Speaker 1: live and die with Watson and that's their guy, and

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Speaker 1: they invested a ton in them, and every one of

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Speaker 1: us after that tra trade would have Watson as the

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Speaker 1: rder in Week one, of course, but to assume that

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Speaker 1: their quarterback play is better is a little crazy. You know,

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Speaker 1: as we were talking, I'm a big EPA guy, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and so I looked them up. Brissett was

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Speaker 1: twelfth in the league in APA, right behind Jared Goff

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Speaker 1: and Trevor Lawrence. I mean, any metric you look at,

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Speaker 1: any status you look at, he had a very good year.

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Speaker 1: Watson was thirty second. Matt Ryan and Matt Jones were

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Speaker 1: right ahead of him. Ryan Wilson or Russell Wilson was

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Speaker 1: ahead of him. I mean, Watson was only ahead of Wentz, Mills, Flacco,

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Speaker 1: Zach Wilson. And speaking of Brown's Baker Mayfield, I mean

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Speaker 1: that's who he out those five steps. That's brutal. You're

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Speaker 1: going from twelve to thirty two and expecting it to

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Speaker 1: be better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I expect him to be better this

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Speaker 3: year than what he was agreed, Yeah, But can he

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Speaker 3: be better than what markedly better than what Brissette was

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Speaker 3: last year?

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Speaker 2: That's the question. That's really the question. Like we know,

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Speaker 2: we have a pretty.

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Speaker 3: Good feeling that Kenny Pickett is going to be markedly

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Speaker 3: better this year than he.

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Speaker 2: Was last year.

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Speaker 3: Sure, that's the expectation for a young quarterback. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: don't know that we had that same expectation for a

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Speaker 3: twenty eight year old I mean, Watson at this point

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Speaker 3: in his career probably is what he is if he hasn't.

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Speaker 1: Like he said it a minute ago, like, I think

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Speaker 1: we both expect Watson like Pickett to be better than

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Speaker 1: last year. Yes, but do we expect the Browns quarterback

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Speaker 1: play to be better than last year? Where we definitely

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Speaker 1: expect the Steelers quarterback play to be better than last year,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Right?

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Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, I mean I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I mean I think back to that game and it

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Speaker 3: was a Thursday night game when the Steelers played up

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Speaker 3: in Cleveland. Was at week two of last year or

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Speaker 3: Week three, whatever week it was, but it.

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Speaker 2: Was they're playing. They went to Cleveland on a short week,

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Speaker 2: and Brussette played really well, really well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he's a good player.

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Speaker 3: He's a he's a you know, he is a top

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Speaker 3: thirty five quarterback in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: Right, I mean, I know Washington wants Howel to win

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Speaker 1: the job, but they'd be just fine with Bersett.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, So I don't know that that you could.

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Speaker 3: You know, they're going to get markedly better quarterback play.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's just penciling that, Oh, the Browns are going to

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Speaker 3: get so much better quarterback played than they did a

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Speaker 3: year ago?

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Speaker 2: Are they? Are they really? I mean, is he is

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Speaker 2: he gonna play?

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Speaker 3: Like again, you mentioned number twelve in DVOA last year

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Speaker 3: Toby Brissett.

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Speaker 2: Is Watson going to be sixth in DVOA.

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Speaker 1: See I even said this before the suspension, like when

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Speaker 1: they made the trade, and it's even more true now.

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Speaker 1: He has to be a top five quarterback for that

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Speaker 1: trade to make sense, right, I mean, from what you're paying,

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Speaker 1: he has to be as good as Burrow and Allen.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's how that's your own any way, that

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Speaker 1: you get your return on the investment.

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Speaker 3: First, they didn't have a first or second round draft

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Speaker 3: pick this year because of him, right right, And they

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Speaker 3: don't have one next year.

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Speaker 1: They don't have one next year. And if he's let's

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Speaker 1: say he is a top five quarterback this year, great, okay,

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Speaker 1: and they're a contender. And I like their offseason. I

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Speaker 1: like a lot of stuff they did, Okay. I mean

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean guarantee you win the Super Bowl. Nobody does.

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Speaker 1: Just get in the game and you know, get in

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Speaker 1: the playoffs like everybody else, and take your cracks. But

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Speaker 1: I promise you that after the season ends, Amari Cooper,

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Speaker 1: Jack Conklin. I could probably go on and on aren't

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Speaker 1: going to be back and there's not replacements in tow

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Speaker 1: or draft picks to get them. You know, So this

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Speaker 1: is your year.

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Speaker 3: And you're not like ahead, and you're not looked at

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Speaker 3: it in the same light as the Chiefs or the

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Speaker 3: Bills or the Bengals. You know that Nick Shook did

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Speaker 3: a thing and he's been doing a thing on it

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Speaker 3: on NFL dot Com, breaking down different divisions and certain teams.

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Speaker 3: Yesterday he did the Browns and he said, you know

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Speaker 3: their goal, Well, it's playoffs are bust.

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Speaker 2: Playoffs are bust.

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Speaker 3: Playoffs are bought, like should be Super Bowl or bust

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Speaker 3: with what you've given up for this quarterback?

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Speaker 1: Right, So if they don't make the playoffs, I think

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Speaker 1: they get fired.

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Speaker 2: They all get fired.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's is fault or not. But I mean that's

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Speaker 1: the way that league works. And you're right, playoffs are bust.

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Speaker 1: Are top seven in the conference. I mean that's not

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Speaker 1: all that lofty of a goal. I mean, hey, I'd

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Speaker 1: be really happy if the Steelers are our top seven team.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so I'm not talking on both sides of

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Speaker 1: my mouth, but However, I'm sure the day the Watson

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Speaker 1: trade was made, if a genie comes out of the

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Speaker 1: bottle and says, on June twenty ninth of twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: your goals is just to make the playoffs, they would

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Speaker 1: be like, no, I mean, we gave up everything, We

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Speaker 1: give up the kitchen sink for this guy. We need

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Speaker 1: to be Super Bowl favored. It's on June twenty.

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Speaker 2: Ninth, right, right, yeah, and that's just not where they're at.

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Speaker 3: So again, a bad move by I get it, you're

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Speaker 3: trying to you keep taking that shot to get a quarterback,

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Speaker 3: But would they have would they have been better served

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Speaker 3: to just play Jakobe Brissette last year? I get it,

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Speaker 3: you didn't like you didn't like Mayfield. You weren't You

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Speaker 3: weren't in on that play. Play play Jakobe Brissett last year.

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Speaker 3: Go get a quarterback this year in a draft and

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Speaker 3: keep all your draft picks.

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Speaker 1: Keep all your draft picks, or trade up for fields

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Speaker 1: the next year, or yeah, your draft picket, you know

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Speaker 1: all these things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Like, the worst worst case scenario for Cleveland

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Speaker 3: is this Henny Pickett turns into it.

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Speaker 2: It turns into an above average quarterback.

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Speaker 1: M hm.

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Speaker 3: They passed on him to spend all that draft capital

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Speaker 3: and money on Deshaun Watson and they still can't finish

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Speaker 3: ahead of the Steelers, right.

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Speaker 1: Yep, I hear you. And obviously there's some revisionist history here,

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Speaker 1: but they owned the pick that Houston traded up for

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Speaker 1: to get Watson in the first place. You know, they

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Speaker 1: owned the pick that the Eagles traded up to get Wentz,

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Speaker 1: and I know Wentz didn't matter, But like they've turned

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Speaker 1: their nose up at they have been short on early picks,

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Speaker 1: right right, right, I mean they've had cracks at quarterbacks,

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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. I mean, heck, when I was

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Speaker 1: there a million years ago, we took Braylen Edwards third overall,

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Speaker 1: but we had Aaron Rodgers ranked the head of Alex

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Speaker 1: Smith in that draft. But thought we were fine because

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Speaker 1: we had Jeff Garcia and Luke McCown, you know. And

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Speaker 1: that's why then the year before, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like this is kind of a trend with the organization,

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Speaker 1: and it goes back to how you open things. Look

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Speaker 1: at the best years in DVR history or DVA history

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Speaker 1: of single quarterbacks. I mean, like Derek Anderson's fourth or something,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, Brissetts last year was fourth. It's

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Speaker 1: not good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not good, and I don't know that is

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Speaker 3: going to get markedly better this year. So interesting way,

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Speaker 3: I just Hooper thought, I mean, this is the time

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Speaker 3: of year when different things percolate through my head here,

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Speaker 3: and you know, you got to come up with different

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Speaker 3: things to write about and talk about.

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Speaker 2: And that just kind of picked my interest a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And to be honest, and this was extremely obvious to

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Speaker 1: me the year I spent with the Browns and I'm

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Speaker 1: not killing their organization. That organization couldn't be run any

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Speaker 1: differently than the one that we're talking about on Suer

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Speaker 1: Nation Radio, you know what I mean, Like they never

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Speaker 1: would have went all in on a quarterback with the

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Speaker 1: issues he did and give him a guaranteed money. Like

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Speaker 1: my time there, there was this constant change. We had

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Speaker 1: three head coaches, there was a new secretary every week,

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Speaker 1: we had a new math thought, you know, like everything

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Speaker 1: was in constant change, and growing up in Pittsburgh and

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Speaker 1: loving the Steelers was like, this is the total opposite

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Speaker 1: of how everything works in black Gold.

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Speaker 3: Which again goes back to the trusting the organization to

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Speaker 3: do the right thing, and well they just don't.

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Speaker 2: They don't have that.

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Speaker 1: One of them has a bunch of trophy, one doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so anyways, we're gonna take a break. He is

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Speaker 3: Matt Williamson. I am Dale, Lollie. You're listening to the

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Speaker 3: drive here on Steelers Nation Radio, and Matt, of course,

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Speaker 3: you can listen to Steelers Nation Radio on your smart speaker.

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Speaker 2: All you have to do is say.

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Speaker 3: Alexa, play Steelers Nation Radio from my heart, and Alexa

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Speaker 3: will take care of the rest. If you haven't done

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Speaker 3: that yet, you need to st give that a shot.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you can listen right now on Alexa. But we're

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Speaker 3: gonna take a break. He is Matt Williamson. I am Dale, Lolly.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back with more right after this.