1 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: Hey, Jorge, Hey, do you hear that the internet went 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: crazy over science news again? Did we discover another Higgs Boson? 3 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: Still just the one? Did the l C create a 4 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: black hole and destroy the world. No, We're still at 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: zero world destroying black holes so that the news go 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: crazy over or something that is not quite real a 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: little bit. I think the scientists are doing a good job, 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: but the coverage of it is a little bit out 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,959 Speaker 1: of control. Well, you know what they say, Daniel. Scientists 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: are from Venus, cartoonists are from Mars, and all our 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: listeners are on Earth. I am handmade cartoonists and the 12 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: creator of PhD comment. I'm Daniel, I'm a particle physicist, 13 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: and I've never been to Mars or Venus. Or are 14 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: you omitting that information on purpose? I'm purposely not answering 15 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: that question. You are from Venus. I knew a Daniel, 16 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: But welcome to our show, Daniel and Jorge Explained the Universe, 17 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio in which we take 18 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: you on a tour of everything crazy here on Earth, 19 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: from the tiniest little particles to the largest Earth swallowing 20 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: black holes, and all the way through the Solar System 21 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: on a tour of all the craziness that is or 22 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: might be out there, orbiting our star and finally zooming 23 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: out to the entire universe to ask the biggest questions 24 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: about the biggest thing in the universe. Yeah, and by 25 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: the way, if a black hole does swallow up to Earth, 26 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: you'll hear about it here first, or you can always 27 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: check the special website that we promised to keep up 28 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: to date called has the Large Hadron Collider destroyed the 29 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: world yet? Dot com? As of this morning, the answer 30 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: is no. The physics forecast says no chance. That's right, 31 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: smoky skies, but no black holes. Yes. Welcome to our podcast, 32 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: in which we talk about the signs out there that is, 33 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: discovering all the amazing things about the universe and expanding 34 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: our understanding of everything there is and how it all works. 35 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: That's right, and pushing forward on the biggest questions of 36 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: the universe, the deepest questions, but also the most basic questions, 37 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: the ones we've been asking basically since we've been asking questions, 38 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: what does it all mean? How does it all work? 39 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: Why is it here at all? And maybe most importantly, 40 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: are we the only ones in it? And it's a 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: live event science is not something that happened in an 42 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: old textbook a long time ago. Science is happening right now, 43 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,839 Speaker 1: and we are discovering things and trying to figure out 44 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: what they all mean. And it's kind of chaotic. We 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: see things, we don't know what they mean. Maybe they 46 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: mean this, Maybe they mean that. We're here to break 47 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: it down for you and tell you what actually happened, 48 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,839 Speaker 1: what we know, what we don't know, and what we're 49 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: just totally wildly speculating. Yeah. So, if you've been paying 50 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: attention to the news this week, there was a huge 51 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: headline in the Science News. It was in the cover 52 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: of CNN, I think in the at least the front page, 53 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: and then also in the New York Times. It was 54 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: a big news in the science community, and it's built 55 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: over into the general news. That's right. It was everywhere. 56 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: It's all over the place, this incredible discovery in the 57 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: atmosphere of venus. And I started hearing about it a 58 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: few days before he actually came out because it started 59 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: leaking in the science gossips, Science gossips, physical gossips. This 60 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: is such a big deal that the people involved couldn't 61 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: help talk about it. I mean, the results were like embargoed. 62 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: Nobody was supposed to say anything until the papers came out. 63 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: But you know, scientists are people, and people talk, people 64 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: have spouses. How's your day? Oh, I discovered life on Venus. 65 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: How's your day? You know, things happen, people chat. Yeah, 66 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: how's your day? I made a black hole. We're all 67 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: going to die in a few seconds. Pack up the car, honey, 68 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: we're getting ready. Back up the rocket ship. But yeahn't 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: heard Daniel. You heard about it a few days ago, 70 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: but you didn't tell me. This is the first time 71 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: I hear about it. Oh, I sent you an email. 72 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:09,839 Speaker 1: Don't you read your email? To be honest now, But yeah, 73 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: they were gonna be talking about a big headline that 74 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: made the news a few days ago for those so 75 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: you listening to this episode now, But it has to 76 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: do with one of the biggest questions we've ever had 77 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: about the universe. That's right. Folks were trying to practice 78 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: for how to look at the atmosphere of planets around 79 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: other stars to guess whether or not the gases in 80 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: those planets could give hints as to whether there was 81 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: life on the surface, and so to practice for that 82 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: really really hard task, they tried to do something easier, 83 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: which is look at planets in our Solar system, our 84 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: neighbor planets, and practice on those. Much easier to look 85 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: at planets to see are there gases there that could 86 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: give hints of life. Yeah, and so they got a 87 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: very big surprise. So to be on the podcast, we'll 88 00:04:54,440 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: be talking about is their life on Venus? Now? Is 89 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: it on Venus or in Venus or around Venus? I 90 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 1: think it's actually above Venus because you know the surface 91 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: of Venus is like totally inhospitable, you know, it's like 92 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: hundreds of degrees and crazy pressure. So what they actually 93 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: found might be consistent with life sort of floating in 94 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: the upper atmosphere. So it's grammatically debatable life over Venus. 95 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: But it was a huge headline. It was in all 96 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: the major papers, I think, and I was a little 97 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: confused because the headlines varied a lot, Like some of 98 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: them were like we found it, we found life in 99 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: other planets, and other headlines were like, we think maybe 100 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: possibly there are some signs. So I feel like, you know, 101 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: the Science committee was being you know, maybe careful this time. Yeah. Well, 102 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: the scientists, if you read their papers, they're very careful 103 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: to talk about what they actually know and what they 104 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: don't know and what they're not claiming, Like it's unusual 105 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: in a paper to specify what you're not claiming, you know, 106 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: like we're not saying this is the discovery of X 107 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: y Z. But in these papers, because they knew it 108 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: could be over interpreted, they were very clear to say 109 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: they are not claiming discovery of life on Venus, but 110 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: they were claiming things that suggested there might be. But 111 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: you're right, in the coverage of it, there are a 112 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: lot of science communication journalists that jumped to life probably 113 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: found on Venus, which is a very different statement, and 114 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: so I thought would be helpful to break down exactly 115 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: what they found at what it means, and what we 116 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: should do next. Yeah, some of are like they are 117 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: green and have China heads. That's right. Well, you know, 118 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: there's no social life here on Earth, things in the pandemic, 119 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: so maybe there's life on Venus. It's just about the 120 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: universe that might be. Maybe that's why my zoom connections 121 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: are so bad. My collaborators are actually on Venus. Boy, 122 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: imagine that the lag and the delay having that conversation. 123 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: Can you hear me? Is my mic on and then 124 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: you have to wait like three days. Yeah, but I 125 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: can hear you. You know, given how hard it is 126 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: to have a zoom conversation with humans using equivalent technology 127 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: here Earth, I can't imagine what it would actually be 128 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: like to meet aliens and talk to them. You know, 129 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: the first ten minutes would definitely be like, I can't 130 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: hear you. Is this thing on? Like? What kind of 131 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: program are you using? Upgrade your version of Skype? Yeah, 132 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to zoom prying what books are on 133 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: their bookshelves? What kind of aren't they put up on 134 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: their wall? To serve humanity? Cut the connection quick, But 135 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: we were curious how many people had heard of this 136 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: and what they thought about it, And I didn't have 137 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: time to reach out to my community of folks who 138 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: answer our questions online. So I did a quick Twitter 139 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: poll to see what our listeners were thinking of this news. Yeah, 140 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: it's hot news and it just happened. So we went 141 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: to get people's quick reactions. And so the pole on 142 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: Twitter says, life in Venus news is option a yawn, 143 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: weird chemistry, be totally bananas and see oh my god, 144 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: oh my god, aliens Before we reveal the results. I 145 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: did get some flak for calling it yawn weird chemistry, 146 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: Like people are like, why isn't it? Oh my god, 147 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: weird cheanis chemis? Was it the chemistry lobby? I think 148 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: so our chemistry fans, No, weird chemistry is yawned inducing. 149 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: What are you talking about? But you know, compared to 150 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: the opportunity that we have found life, then weird chemistry 151 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: is definitely yawn. Well, so you've sent this hole out 152 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: and we got back to results pretty quick. Yeah, so 153 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: just about half the folks who responded thought it was 154 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: probably just some weird chemistry, about a third of them 155 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: thought it was totally bananas, and just under a quarter 156 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: thought it's aliens. Now, Daniel, it does this mean of 157 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: them think that it is bananas on venus or that 158 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: the idea is bananas. It would be bananas to find 159 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: bananas on venus, like that would be pretty cool, right. 160 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: Did they find potassium it's kind of potassium gas. If 161 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: they ended up discovering that this weird chemical was outgassed 162 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: by a big deposition of alien bananas, wow we would 163 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: be vindicated. Did we see a bunch of aliens slip 164 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: on banana peals on the surface of Venus, or maybe 165 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: that explains what the aliens are doing. They're stopping by 166 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: Venus on their way to stealing all the earthly bananas. 167 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: All right, Well, anyways, scientists have found something that they 168 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: think might be signs of life on Venus. So we'll 169 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: get into that today. And how excited should we be 170 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: about this question? And so Daniel step us through here? 171 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: What did they actually fine? Like, did you read the 172 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: paper I did? There are two papers that came out, 173 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: one in Nature and one in Astrobiology what at the 174 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: same time, at the same time. In these papers, they've 175 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: been working on it for a couple of years, sort 176 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: of in secret and in parallels of these teams put 177 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: these papers out together and it was an embargo until Monday, 178 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: and the papers detail what they actually found and what 179 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: they have is evidence for the existence of a weird 180 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: gas in the atmosphere of Venus, a gas called phosphene, 181 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: and that's the chemical formula is pH three, meaning like 182 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: a phosphorus with three hydrogen atoms. Yeah, and it looks 183 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: sort of like a little pyramid. The phosphorus is in 184 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: the middle and it's got three little hydrogen sort of 185 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: underneath it, and so it's a pretty simple little chemical, 186 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: though it's surprisingly difficult to make normal conditions. Really it 187 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: doesn't just happen, or it does happen, but maybe not 188 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: as much. It turns out, it's not something we really 189 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: understand very well, but we think that it's most often 190 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: produced by life, at least here on Earth. It's the 191 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: kind of thing that you find in the presence of 192 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: life and you don't find otherwise though, you know, we 193 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: only have sample of one planet to really examine in detail, 194 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: and it's difficult to make otherwise. And so that's why 195 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: they think it's probably a good marker of life. Like 196 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: they can't think of a way that this would have 197 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: been made on Venus other than life. Interesting, and how 198 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: did we actually see this if it's on or around Venus. Yes, 199 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: so we don't have a lander on Venus or a 200 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: rover or anything to drive around on Venus. Venus is 201 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: very inincipitable. We've only sent probes to Venus a few 202 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: times and they've only last you know, like minutes or 203 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: hours because of the crazy conditions. They get like crushed. 204 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: So most of our information from Venus comes from looking 205 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: at it from Earth, which means that we're looking at 206 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: light from Venus using telescopes here on Earth, and maybe 207 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: let's paint the picture because you just mentioned something interesting, 208 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: which is that we've sent probes to Venus into Venus, 209 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: but they don't last very long because Venus it's not 210 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: somewhere you want to go on vacation. No, it's definitely not. 211 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: It's ridiculously hot. It's like eight hundred degrees on the 212 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: surface and the pressure is really really high. It's like 213 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: pounds per square inch, it's like forty five bars. Is 214 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: that just from the like the temperature because it's so hot. Yeah, 215 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: there's just a lot more gas there that's been outgassed 216 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: by the volcanoes. So the surface of Venus is basically 217 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: like all volcanoes all the time. And the way a 218 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: planet gets atmospheres basically buy volcanoes, you know, farting that 219 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: out onto the surface and then then gravity holding it in. 220 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: And I don't know what sounds more unpleasant, volcanos or 221 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: constant farts. Well, you know, the atmosphere is basically the 222 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: planet's farting and then gravity holds it to you. You 223 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: were lucky that we're not so large that our farts 224 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: are bound to us gravitationally, they disperse in the atmosphere. 225 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: But if your planet, you're not so lucky, and which 226 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: your volcanoes burp out sticks around. So it's a lot 227 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: of volcanoes on Venus pumping out gas, and that's why 228 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: you have this really high pressure. And how do we 229 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: see these molecules of gas? And so what we can 230 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: do is we can tell what's in the atmosphere of 231 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: Venus just by looking at the light that comes here 232 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: from it. And that's because every kind of gas interacts 233 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: with light differently. So looking at the light that we 234 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: see coming from Venus, we can tell what kind of 235 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: gas there is because every different kind of gas absorbs 236 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: different frequencies of light and emits different frequencies of light. 237 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: They're like fingerprints. Yeah, and it's due to quantum effects, right, 238 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: Like it has to do with the electrons and they're leveled. Yeah, 239 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: that's right. You can think of an atom as having 240 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: electrons in sort of a ladder, and in order for 241 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: the electron to jump up a ladder, they have to 242 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: receive a photon that has just the right energy, just 243 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: enough energy to move them from one state to the next. 244 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: If the photon is too much energy, the electron just 245 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: cannot absorb that. And that's a purely quantum mechanical effect. 246 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: As you said, in classical physics, there would be no 247 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: limit to where the electron could be. It could be 248 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: in any orbit like the Earth around the Sun. But 249 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: electrons are not really in orbits. There in quantized states 250 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: around the nucleus. So they're limited to absorbing photons of 251 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: certain frequencies. And this is different from atom to atom. 252 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: So you can tell how much hydrogen is there in 253 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: gas by shining light through it and then seeing which 254 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: frequencies are absorbed. And hydrogen has a certain frequency of 255 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: light it likes to absorb. The clue there is not 256 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: seeing the light right. You shine white light through a gas, 257 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: and where it's absorbed with the hen see the light 258 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: dips is where the gas is interacting with that light. 259 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: And so that's how you tell what's in the gas. 260 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of like each gas has a color, but 261 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: it's almost like the anticolor, like it absorbs the specific color. Yes, 262 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: it absorbs those frequencies and lets everything else through. And 263 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: it's a really powerful technique because each one has its 264 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: own fingerprint, and so even if your gas is a 265 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: big mixture hydrogen in this and that and the other thing. 266 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: You can tell the relative components by looking at all 267 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: these intensities because they don't typically overlap, right, There unique 268 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: different shapes and you can measure how much is absorbed 269 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: at different frequencies. So it's a really powerful technique. It's 270 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: really cool, and it lets us tell what's in the 271 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: atmosphere of other planets if we can look at light 272 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: that's come through that atmosphere. Yeah, it's it's like a fingerprint, 273 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: like you said, like stars have fingerprints. From this effect, 274 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: you can tell what gases are inside of a star 275 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: just from what frequencies get absorbed before the light comes out. 276 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: That's right. And stars are a little bit more complicated 277 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: becau as there's active fusion going on and so photons 278 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: also being emitted from that fusion. But absolutely we can 279 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: tell the chemical composition of stars by looking at their spectrum. 280 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: And this is why it's so exciting. We can use 281 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: the same technique on exoplanets, like if there's a planet 282 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: going around a star really really far away in another 283 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: solar system, as that planet goes in front of the sun, 284 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: the light from the star passes through the atmosphere before 285 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: it comes to us. If we can see a difference 286 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: between the light that passes through the atmosphere and just 287 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: the light that's directly from the star, we can tell 288 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,119 Speaker 1: what's in that atmosphere, like is there water in that atmosphere? 289 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: Is their oxygen? And those are fascinating clues about what 290 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: might be living on that planet, right, because it's not 291 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: just gas, it's like other things to write, liquids and rocks, 292 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: that's right. And we gave a sort of simplified description 293 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: of the absorption lines as being just because electrons move 294 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: up and down the ladder. It's a little bit more 295 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: complex than that because they're also like rotational and vibrational states. 296 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: So these complex atoms can absorb photons have lost of 297 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: different frequencies, not just to move the electrons up and down, 298 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: but they can absorb it to go up an energy 299 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: level in vibration or rotation or all sorts of stuff. 300 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: But each one has a unique spectrum that's pretty well studied, right, 301 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: And so we've used this technique to now detect a 302 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: very special kind of molecule on Venus, this pH three phosphene, 303 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: and we think it might be due to some life there. 304 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: So let's get into what that means and how excited 305 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: should be. But first let's take a quick break a right, Daniel, 306 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: So Venus has been farting and we've seen the evidence. 307 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: We smelt it through light. That's right. Well, we know 308 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: it has an atmosphere, and the atmosphere is probably all 309 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: because of volcanic verbs, and that atmosphere has one really 310 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: fascinating element of it, this element phosphine. And phosphine is 311 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: fascinating because as far as we understand it, it's really 312 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: hard to make just chemically, like to create the conditions 313 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: to make phosphine is very difficult, very rare. It's made, 314 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: for example, in the core of gas giants under really 315 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: really high pressure and temperature. But on rocky planets, we 316 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: don't know of a way to make phosphine really other 317 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: than being assisted by biological life. So yeah, maybe step 318 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: me through, because I'm kind of confused, like, why couldn't 319 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: this molecular just form spontaneously like under because you just 320 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: said Venus is under high pressure and temperature. Couldn't these 321 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: molecules and atoms just kind of click together by accident? 322 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: They could write and it's certainly possible, but we're talking 323 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: about like the rates of things. You know, chemistry is 324 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: a mess, right, if you ever took organic chemistry, you 325 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: know it's complicated, Like how these lego pieces like to 326 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: click together. Have to be in the right can figuration. 327 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: You have to have the right energy, you have to 328 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: have the right situation, and they tend to like to 329 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: do other things first. They tend to like to do 330 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: the least energetically expensive thing first. So if you have 331 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: a big mix of all the components you need phosphorus 332 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: and hydrogen together with other stuff, it tends to form 333 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: other things and sort of lock these components into other molecules. 334 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: So you don't tend to make pH three because it's 335 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 1: energetically just very unfavorable. It takes a lot of energy 336 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: to make it. It It can happen like if you have 337 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: a random a lot of false phosphorus and hydrogen together 338 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: and you mix it, pH three is not what they 339 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: would make. That's right. And in one of these papers 340 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: to have this amazing diagram when they show like, well, 341 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: if you have phosphorus and hydrogen together with other stuff, 342 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: here's what typically happens, and here all the steps you 343 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: would have to go through to make pH three and 344 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: a lot of those steps are very difficult or very 345 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: very rare, so in their model, and this is the 346 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: key bit in their model, they cannot explore lane this 347 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: much phosphine, like maybe a little bit, maybe a tiny 348 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: little smidge, But what they see on Venus is much 349 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: much more than they can possibly explain given their understanding 350 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: of the chemistry. And I guess relative to all of 351 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 1: the other things they see, because that maybe is it 352 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: that they don't see the other things that phosphors and 353 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: hydrogen would like to make instead. I know they see 354 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: those as well, but they just see much much more 355 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: phosphine than they expect. And you know, it's still it's 356 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: not a lot. We're talking like twenty parts per billion. 357 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: That means you take a random molecule of the Venusian 358 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: atmosphere and you get, you know, like twenty phosphenes. That 359 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a lot. No, it's not a lot, 360 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: and it's sort of amazing that they can even still 361 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: see it, right, But it's a lot more than you 362 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: would expect if you just sort of let chemistry run 363 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 1: its course. Given our understanding of what's on Venus and 364 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: the chemical processing. So even twenty parts per billion is 365 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: a lot, is like unusual, it's very unusual. They don't 366 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: expect to see essentially any of it because it's so 367 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: difficult for chemistry to make it, Like you just leave 368 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff on the surface of Venus. Even 369 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: under those conditions, you do not expect to get, you know, 370 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: more than a few parts per trillion. So this is 371 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: much much more, and it's even much much more than 372 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: we have on Earth. Like on Earth, we have phosphine 373 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: in the atmosphere we think produced by life, but it's 374 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: that like a thousand times less than we're seeing it 375 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: on Venus. So there's either a thousand times more life 376 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: on Venus. It's kind of like you're saying, well, we 377 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: also have a different atmosphere, and so phosphine may not 378 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: survive as long in our atmosphere. Fosphine is flammable, and 379 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: so it tends to light up and be destroyed very 380 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: quickly if there's any exposed flame. You know, some people 381 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: think that phosphine is the source of the will of 382 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: the wisp. You know, it tends to be produced in 383 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: like swamps and boggy environments, so it may be responsible 384 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: for like very quick brief bursts of observable flame in 385 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: bogs that like you know, lead people to go investigate 386 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: and follow them into the wood. What are you talking about? 387 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: The fire swamp from Princess Bryan, that's exactly to phosphine. 388 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: It turns out it's all about fosphen. Are the rats 389 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: of unusual size also due to phosphene? I don't know, 390 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: but you know, fosphine is actually fascinating. Anyway, I went 391 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: and I asked my wife, who's a microbiologist and a 392 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: biochemist about this to understand, like why is it so 393 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 1: hard to make fosphen and why is it something that 394 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: life can do but like chemistry can't. Yeah, like does 395 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: the heart of planets and finds it hard to make. Yeah, 396 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: and yet we can make it, and yet we can 397 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: make it. And it turns out she doesn't know. Biology 398 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: doesn't know. We don't actually know how fosphin is made 399 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: by life forms. Yeah, they see it in association with 400 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: like bacteria, and we know it's produced like in our 401 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: intestines when there's all sorts of microbial activity and swamps 402 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: and all sorts of stuff, But we don't actually understand 403 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: the mechanism. It's not like we know this protein takes 404 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: the phosphorus and does this. Nobody's even understood that here 405 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: on Earth. How can we not know? Don't we know 406 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: everything there is to know about like cell metabolism and stuff. 407 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we definitely don't. And there's lots and 408 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: lots of bacteria that we just don't understand. Like remember, 409 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: there's like millions and millions, maybe billions, of different kinds 410 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: of bacteria even just in our gut that we haven't 411 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: even mapped before. My wife likes to call it biological 412 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: dark matter for obvious reasons. And dark energy what's the 413 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: equivalent then, a dark energy? But the rough idea is 414 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: that you know, life has proteins, and proteins are these 415 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 1: little machines that can sort of assist chemical reactions. Like 416 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: if there's some transition you need to go through to 417 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: make phosphine from its basic elements, and that transition is 418 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: unstable or therefore unlikely or very chemically expensive, then a 419 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: protein can sort of help it happen. It can like 420 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: catalyze and take you from one step to the other 421 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: if that's really important for something that the life is doing. Right, 422 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: So the proteins are like these little chemical helpers, Like 423 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: their proteins like little little machines are kind of literally 424 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: putting these atoms together. Yeah, they're essentially little biological robots. 425 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: Proteins are really pretty super awesome. But that's just speculation, 426 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: Like we don't actually understand that. So that's another important 427 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: qualifier to keep in your mind. Like we're projecting that 428 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: fosph being may be made in Venus by microbial life, 429 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: but that's not something we actually understand here on Earth. 430 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: So that's also a bit of a leap. And and 431 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: are we sure that we're making it and not just 432 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: kind of like breathing it in and somehow processing it 433 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: and then you know, farting it out. We're pretty sure 434 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: because fosphing doesn't last that long. It breaks down in 435 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: sunlight and other things. Other radicals can get rid of it. Really. Yeah, 436 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: on the time scale, you know, like thousands of seconds 437 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: or depending on the conditions, maybe up to you know, 438 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: tens or hundreds of years. So if fosphin had been 439 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: produced sort of geologically along time ago, it would have 440 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: all broken down and gone away. So we're pretty sure 441 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: it's being replenished by some lifelike process here on Earth, 442 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 1: and that's what makes it also exciting to see it 443 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: on Venus because on Venus their estimates are that it 444 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: shouldn't last for more than a thousand years. So that 445 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: means that something has been producing phosphine on Venus in 446 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: the last thousand years. Interesting. It means it's fresh, like 447 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: if you see posphine's it hasn't been there for eons. 448 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: It's like it was it was recent somebody something or 449 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: somebody made that recently. That's why somebody deals it recently. 450 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: It's like if you see fresh milk, it's like you 451 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: have to think it's it's recent, Like it's you see 452 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: fresh milk that doesn't taste bad, then you know it 453 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't made like by dinosaurs or a long time ago. 454 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: And that's exciting, right. That tells you that there's something 455 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: out there that we only understood to be made by 456 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: life and is fairly recent and we don't think that 457 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: there's any way to make it un organically, So it's 458 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: it citing possibility. It's like it's a good hint if 459 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: you could like dial up your request for like what 460 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: would I hope to see in the atmosphere of Venus. 461 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: This would be pretty far up there. In fact, there 462 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: were papers written in the last ten years suggesting this, like, Wow, 463 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: this would be an awesome bio marker. If we could 464 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: see this on Venus, that would be very strong evidence 465 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: for life well before this discovery. That just makes me suspicious, Daniel, sure, like, 466 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: if we see this, we'll see aliens and then and 467 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: then they saw it. It could be actually good science 468 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: or it could be a conspiracy. Now, so then the 469 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: hypothesis is that maybe there are bacteria on Venus, then 470 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: that is making this phosphene gas? Is that the kind 471 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: of running explanation for this gas that we're seeing. It's 472 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: a bit of a piecemeal explanation. Nobody has a completely 473 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: coherent hypothesis that actually works. But the sketch, the outline 474 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: of it is microbial life, right, not like civilizations and 475 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: aliens trying to connect with us on Zoom. Microbial life 476 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: because again, that's the only thing that produces phosphen here 477 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: on Earth, is microbial life. And also not on the surface, 478 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: because the surface is totally inhespitable, and where they find 479 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: the phosphene is in the atmosphere. It's like fifty kilometers 480 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: up what so it's not just aliens, it's flying aliens. 481 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: It's floating aliens. Because it's about fifty kilometers up is 482 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: where the pressure starts to get reasonable. It's like similar 483 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: to the pressure and temperature of the atmosphere of Earth. 484 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: And so life could exist in little water droplets floating 485 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: in the Venusian atmosphere. What like rain life, cloud life, Yeah, exactly, 486 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: a life in the cloud decks. You know. It's like 487 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: forty five to sixty kilometers above the surface is where 488 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: they call the temperate zone, and the pressure there is 489 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: about in the same as Earth pressure, and the temperature 490 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: is you know, in a reasonable range. You know, it's 491 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: pretty hot still, but we think microbes could survive there. Wow. 492 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: And so that that's the sketch of the idea, is 493 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: that maybe there are a whole bunch and you have 494 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: to have a lot, right, there might be a whole 495 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: bunch of bacteria living in the clouds of Venus. You'd 496 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: have to have a whole bunch. And the other cool 497 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: piece of information is that the fospan doesn't seem to 498 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: be present at the polls. It's mostly like around the 499 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: equator and more in the temperate zones. And so that's interesting. Interesting, Yeah, 500 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: what does that mean they're all vacationing at the same time. 501 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: It's summer around Venus. Man, we don't know. But it's 502 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: also kind of hard to imagine anything living in those clouds. 503 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: I mean, Carl Sagan famously speculated about life in the 504 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: clouds of Venus. What is a pretty difficult environment to 505 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: survive in. It's very dry, actually, and it's very acidic. 506 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: I mean, these clouds are talking about are not clouds 507 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: of water vapor there clouds of sulfuric acid. And so 508 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: it's a difficult environment. But we have bacteria here, right, 509 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: They can live in in acid and in extreme conditions. Yeah, 510 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: bacteria basically can live anywhere. My wife likes to say 511 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: that bacteria can eat anything and live anywhere and have 512 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: these great stories. And when they try to sterilize stuff 513 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: at JPL before sending it into space by spraying some 514 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: sort of bleach solution onto it, and they discovered that 515 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: essentially what that was doing was selecting for some bacteria 516 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: that like to eat the bleach solution. And so it's 517 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: basically impossible to kill bacteria once you once you created, 518 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: and so there certainly could be something that's capable of 519 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: surviving those conditions. We just haven't imagined you, all right, 520 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: So it's living in the rain droplets of sulphuric acid 521 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: in the clouds of Venus. That's the sketch of the idea. Right, 522 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: We're a long way from confirming that, but that's like 523 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: the thing that we can't rule out that we'd love 524 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: to conclude. But it's a pretty big leap, right. The 525 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: other explanation is, oh, there's some weird chemistry happening that 526 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: we never imagined before in the internals of the volcanoes 527 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: on Venus. That could also explain it. All right, Well, 528 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: then put on our other head and ask how excited 529 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: she would be about this discovery and what it can mean. 530 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: But first let's take another quick break. All right, Daniel 531 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: Day may have found life on Venus. We're not sure. 532 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: They found a gas phosphene. That is usually the signature 533 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: of life here on Earth, micropial life. And so the 534 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: question is are there microbes in the clouds of Venus? 535 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: Is it infected? Is Venus infected? Is it infected? Well, 536 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: you know one idea I had when I first heard 537 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: about this is didn't we send landers to Venus? How 538 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: do we know those landers were sterile, right. I just 539 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: told you that it's basically impossible to sterilize anything. So 540 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: dot dot dot, are you saying that maybe we sent 541 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: satellites to Venus probes and somehow those infected Venus and 542 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: that's where all that bacteria comes from. I mean, if 543 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: bacteria is very hard to kill, then perhaps it survived 544 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: the sterilization. Almost certainly some of them survived the sterilization, 545 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: and perhaps some of them could survive also the trip 546 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: planet to planet, right, And then if they found an 547 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: element of the Venusian atmosphere as they're falling in towards 548 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: the planet, they could have landed there and spread quickly 549 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: with no competition. You could very rapidly have trillions of 550 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: microbes in the atmosphere of Venus. Oh man, I wonder 551 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: if you ask that, and that's how they cleaned what 552 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: would they say, Maybe they said maybe they would say, 553 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: but we cleaned it with sulphuric acid. We don't know 554 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: how this could possibly happen. Yeah. I think it's a 555 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: sort of modern understanding of microbes that they can basically 556 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: live anywhere, that they are everywhere, and they can live 557 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: almost anywhere. It's essentially impossible to kill all of them. Wow, 558 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: so we spread life to Venus potentially potentially Yeah, I 559 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: mean we don't know that. That's just speculation, but we 560 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: can't rule it out either, because these microbes are very 561 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: hard to kill. Now, you know, for that to happen, 562 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: need to have enough of them survived the sterilization process 563 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: so that some fraction of them could survive the month 564 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: long journey to Venus and re entry. But it's certainly possible. 565 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: Has enough time passed for you know, like a few 566 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: microbes that we sent by acon in to have multiplied 567 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: so much by now it's been decades. And remember, the 568 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: life cycle of microbes is short, so they adapt and 569 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: spread very rapidly, especially if you just dump them into 570 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: nutrients with no competition and no predators. Venus should have 571 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: been wearing a mask. See folks, we your masks or 572 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: our landers should have been wearing a mask. But I 573 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't say that's likely. I'm just saying it's it's a possibility. 574 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: You know, it's something we can't actually rule out. We'd 575 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: actually have to go and study that life, and if 576 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: we found it, then we could pretty definitively say whether 577 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: it was Earth based. But I guess one question I 578 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: have is how is this microbial life? If it's there, 579 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: how is it surviving? Like doesn't they need to eat 580 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: things and then consume some kind of nutrients. Yeah, but 581 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, microbes formed here on Earth and they consumed 582 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: sunlight or just got energy from various chemical processes, and 583 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: so there's definitely sources of energy for them on Venus. 584 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: I mean there's heat, there's sunlight, there's everything you need. 585 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: From a microbes point of view. Something's got to be 586 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: the bottom of the food chain, right right. Oh, I see, 587 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: it's kind of like algae almost like it's it's just there, 588 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: somebody there. Yeah, it's just like the first microbes on Earth, right, 589 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: they didn't need anything else to eat. Well, Um, I guess, Daniel, 590 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: how excited should we be about this news discovery that 591 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: should we be excited? Should we be skeptical? Should we 592 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: just kind of wait and see? We should be very excited. 593 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: I mean I participated in that poll and I'm the 594 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: one who clicked on oh my god, Oh my god, 595 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: aliens because I'm excited. I think there's a good chance 596 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: that there's some weird chemistry that's produced seeing this, But 597 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: I also think that there's a good chance that there's 598 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: microbial life on Venus. I think billions of years have passed, 599 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: the conditions are there, why shouldn't there be life. I'm 600 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: the kind of person who believes that life is probably 601 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: ubiquitous in the galaxy. It's just probably mostly boring microbial 602 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: life that hasn't really done anything up. Note careful that 603 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: we're going to get letters from all the microbiologists saying 604 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: there's no boring, that's just things boring, biopic That's right. 605 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: I'm showing my preference here. I would prefer to meet intelligence, 606 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: civilized technological venusans than microbial venutions. But hey, that's just me. Yeah. 607 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: But I think what you're saying is that it's exciting 608 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: because if we find microbial life in Venus, which is 609 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: like just another planet in our solar system, that's already 610 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: two planets in one solar system with microbial life. So 611 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: maybe like the whole universe is full of microbial life, 612 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: which means the likelihood that it would progress to something 613 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: more intelligent is very very high. Well, that's fascinating, right, 614 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: I totally agree with you up to that last statement, 615 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: and the history of this question are we alone is 616 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: the history of discovering that all the elements are much 617 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: more likely than we expected. Right, the number of stars 618 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: in the universe turns out to be a much bigger 619 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: number than we ever imagined. The number of stars with 620 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: planets around them turns out to be a much bigger 621 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: fraction than we even dreamed. The number of stars with 622 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: planets that are rocky in the hospitable zone is even 623 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: higher than we ever hoped to dare. It's like, of 624 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: all those planets, and now, if we discovered that microbial 625 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: life on such planets is not unusual, that takes us 626 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: one step further to concluding that maybe there's intelligent life everywhere. 627 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: But we can't just leap to say if microbial life 628 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: is everywhere, then intelligent life probably is. Also because we 629 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: don't know what the fraction of microbial communities that generate 630 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: intelligent life is. Right. Each of those is an independent question, 631 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: but it's exciting if we can knock one more down. 632 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: If you could say, ah, crobial life, the basis for 633 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: intelligent life is ubiquitous, and so you're right. If we 634 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: discover it on Venus, then wow, that's a huge signal 635 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: that it's probably everywhere in the universe, right, because if 636 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,399 Speaker 1: if it is on Venus and it formed on its 637 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: own and we didn't accidentally infected Venus, that means like 638 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: out of nothing, life originated there. Like life just spontaneously 639 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: happened in a place like Venus. That's crazy. It's not 640 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 1: hard to imagine, but it is crazy because Venus, we think, 641 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: you know, like a billion years ago, looked a lot 642 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: more like Earth before runaway climate change on Venus. We 643 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: think Venus was cooler and didn't have as much sulfur 644 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: in the atmosphere, and so there probably was an opportunity 645 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: for a huge flowering of life on Venus. And it 646 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: may be that what they're still is just the remnants 647 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: the only thing that survived as Venus got sort of 648 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: crazy and bonkers and floated up into the sky. But 649 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: absolutely it would be wonderful to be fantastic to discover 650 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: life on Venus, right, Yeah, I think the theories that 651 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: Venus was once like Earth, nice and in fun to 652 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: live in, but then they had crazy climate change. Basically, yeah, 653 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 1: essentially got too hot and that released more stuff into 654 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: the atmosphere which helped blanket it, and that made it hotter, 655 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: which released more of that climate changing gas, which then 656 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: essentially led to a runaway greenhouse effect, and now it's 657 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: super hot and super dense and so not a place 658 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: we'd like to live, although you could imagine building colonies 659 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: that float in the Venusian atmosphere like that could be 660 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: a thing. Oh man, are you saying that maybe there 661 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: were aliens there intelligent and they took to the clouds. No, 662 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm saying if we wanted to establish a base on Venus, 663 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: we could build a floating base in the clouds of 664 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: Venus to study the Venusian alien. She just went to 665 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,919 Speaker 1: Cloud City from Star Wars. And you know, this isn't 666 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: the first time we've had similar hints of microbial life 667 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: in their planets in the Solar System. Really, we've detected 668 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: signals and other planets. Yeah, remember a few years ago 669 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: they saw this signature of methane on Mars. Methane is 670 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,479 Speaker 1: another one of these things that doesn't last very long, 671 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 1: and it's typically made by organic processes, meaning you know, 672 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: microbial processes producing methane. And they saw it in the 673 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: atmosphere of Mars, and not just to do see it 674 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: in the atmosphere of Mars, but they see like seasonal variations, 675 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: as you would imagine if like things go to sleep 676 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: in the winter and then wake up in the summer 677 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,720 Speaker 1: and start metabolizing and releasing methane and all sorts of stuff. 678 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,439 Speaker 1: So that was pretty exciting. So we think that maybe 679 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: there is life on Mars. Well we don't know, but 680 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: we know that there's liquid water on Mars. We know 681 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: there's methane produced in the atmosphere, and so again those 682 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: are both strong hints towards macrobial life. It's a far 683 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: from being able to claim that there is life on Mars, 684 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: but it's the kind of evidence that's consistent with life 685 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: on Mars and difficult to explain otherwise. And that's the 686 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: kind of thing we learned about Venus this week, that 687 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: there's something similar are on Venus, some process making a gas, 688 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: as far as we know, can only be made by life, 689 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: and it is being made on Venus. Well, pretty exciting. 690 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: It sounds, Daniel, like you're telling me that we should 691 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: be excited about this news. It is worth the other 692 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: front page of newspapers. It's definitely worth the other front page. 693 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: And you know, even if it turns out to be weird. 694 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: Chemistry Hey, we've learned something about chemistry, and that helps 695 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 1: us understand whether this is a fascinating signal to look 696 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: for an exoplanets or not. And you know, I'm less 697 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: excited to learn about new chemical pathways to make phosphine 698 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: that I am to discover life on Venus. But you 699 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: know it is still exciting, right, And what's interesting is 700 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: that we could go there and check it out. Like 701 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: it's not like an extra planet that's millions of light 702 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,399 Speaker 1: years away, I mean Venus. We could potentially go there 703 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: and scoop some of that gas up and see if 704 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: there are bacteria there. Absolutely. The next step is to 705 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: do a much more detailed study of the different kinds 706 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: of gases in the atmosphere. You know, we've seen one, 707 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: you but to understand whether there's life there, we need 708 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 1: to scoop up that gas and see, like, well, what 709 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: is this being made from? What else is happening? Because 710 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: if there is life in the atmosphere is Venus, it's 711 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: not just making Phosphenes's kind of making other stuff. And 712 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: so these things are called metabolites, the product of metabolism, 713 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: and we can do metaboli mix to understand like what 714 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: are they doing, What are they breathing, what are they eating, 715 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: what are they producing? And that will give us a 716 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: clue as to what might be there and so more details, 717 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: study the atmosphere and then yeah, go descend into Venus 718 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: and scoop some of this stuff out or actually study. 719 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: Just make sure we wear a mask, right, that's right. 720 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: And so there's a bunch of folks gearing up to 721 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: do studies of Venus. People are talking about sending another 722 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: probe to Venus, and even small companies. There's a small 723 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: company I was reading about yesterday called Rocket Labs and 724 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: they're building sort of a low budget probe that there 725 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 1: were any way planning to send to Venus because they 726 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,720 Speaker 1: felt like Mars has too much attention what about Venus? 727 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,879 Speaker 1: And so they're planning to launch a think it's next year, 728 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: a spacecraft called the Photon on a rocket they called 729 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: the Electron and send it to Venus. And so we 730 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: could get some more answers pretty soon. Wow. So if 731 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: we haven't infected Venus, we we probably will soon. I 732 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: think it's what you're saying, that's right, and you know, 733 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: that's a fascinating idea. I think what I said before 734 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: it was not actually correct, because if we go to 735 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: Venus and we discover these micro groups, we can't actually 736 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,479 Speaker 1: tell if they came from Earth or not. Like say 737 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: that they are DNA based microups that look a lot 738 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: like Earth microbes. That either tells you, well, we infected 739 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: them from Earth, or this is the way to make 740 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,760 Speaker 1: microbial life. If it's really independent and it arises totally 741 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: separately and ends up looking very very much like Earth. 742 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,800 Speaker 1: That tells you that life can really only happen one way. 743 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,919 Speaker 1: So that would be a huge discovery, or it would 744 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: mean that we'd infected. It would mean that in Star 745 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,439 Speaker 1: Trek when all the Aliens looked the same with four 746 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: limbs and five fingers, it's because of a reason, that's right. 747 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: There's actually science behind it, and that's why it's so 748 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: important to not infect these planets, Like you don't get 749 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: two chances. If you infect Venus, then we can no 750 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: longer ask that question of whether life can arise independently 751 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: and look similar to life on Earth. So I really 752 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: hope that we haven't infected Venus. That's my worry, my anxiety, 753 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: But I'm hopeful that it's not the case. Well, I 754 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: guess the answer is let's wait and see. Maybe we'll 755 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: find life right here in our neighborhood. We need more observations, 756 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: All right, Well, we hope you enjoy that, and we 757 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: hope that cleared up that headline that was in the 758 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: news all of this week and maybe got you a 759 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: little bit excited about discoveries and other planets and the 760 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 1: potential for us not being the only things alive in 761 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 1: our universe. That's right, and we're happy to share with 762 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,280 Speaker 1: you our enthusiasm or excitement about this potential big news, 763 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: but also to remind you that it's a long cry 764 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,879 Speaker 1: from actually discovering life on venus. I mean, we know 765 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: the probability of seeing phosphen given life is high. We 766 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: don't know what the probability of life given phosphing is 767 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: and so we're excited, we're hopeful, but we're also still cautious. Yeah, 768 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us, See you next time. Thanks for listening, 769 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge explained. The Universe is 770 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast for 771 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcasts, 772 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Ye