1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Quody dits, but Joseph's gotten more. You know, it said 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: that you need a plan. You need a plan if 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: you are going to meet with success in any endeavor. Now, 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: most of the time we would think that, you know, 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: you begin to think about a plan as something that 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: has a level of positivity to it. You're going to 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: set a goal right and step by step you're going 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: to make your way through it methodically. Make sure that 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: you cover all of your basis, that everything you do, 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: every step you take, every phone call you make, is 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: going to bring you to that point of what you 12 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: you define as success. Here's the question, though, can the 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: same thing as far as making a plan apply to 14 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: pure evil? I said, admit to you that it can, 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: and I gotta say, friends, back in November of twenty 16 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: twenty two, matter of fact, November thirteenth, there was a 17 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: plan put in place and the end game seems to 18 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: have been homicide. It seems as though it was successful. 19 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybacks Well Dave. 20 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: The case that want to go away, The case is 21 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: that continue to capture the imagination of the public and 22 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: I think probably the media that I don't know that 23 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: I see an end in sight relative to pushing out 24 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: information regarding the Idaho four so called Idaho four. 25 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: This was not in our game plan. 26 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: It wasn't remember, I think I wouldn't say it's a 27 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: solemn vow, but I know off air, because we did 28 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: several episodes, said I was not going to do it again. 29 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: But there's We've had a convergence of a couple of 30 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: things that occurred, I guess within the past week. First, 31 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: we had this horrific photo dump. 32 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. 33 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: That came about as a result apparently of let's see, 34 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: how can I frame this? It came as a result 35 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: of some einstein with the state Constabulary in Idaho that 36 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, posted nearly three thousand images, and of 37 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: course they quickly took them down. 38 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 2: But there's nothing that's ever taken down from the Internet. 39 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: Once it's up, it's done. That's what we tell children 40 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: as they're in junior high, little girls in particular, whatever 41 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: you do now will last for the rest of your life, 42 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: So stop it. 43 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, don't do it. 44 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: I will tell you this though, Joe. When those pictures 45 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: came out, you know, you and I both were called 46 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 2: to be on shows a discussion of Coburger and the murders. 47 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: And it was one of these episodes that we did 48 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: with Nancy Grace on Crime Stories, and I was on 49 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: the phone with Nancy about it because she was really 50 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: we were discussing a couple of other things for the 51 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: show the next morning, but I could tell there was 52 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: something else there, and it was the same thing that 53 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: was there with you. Why why are these pictures out 54 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: there for all the world to see. This only causes 55 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 2: pain for those who are the friends and family. I 56 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: mean that the loved ones have been through enough. Okay, 57 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: let's just move our lives forward and stop this madness. 58 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: But I will tell you there's money in ratings, there's 59 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: money in hits, there's money in these things. And as 60 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: long as people want to hear about Coberger, it's not 61 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: that dissimilar from Manson in the seventies. If you remember, 62 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: for years after the Manson trials were over, we still 63 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: had we still to this day have Manson stuff. 64 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: But what's his name, Buggaloo Vincent. 65 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: But he bit helter skelter. 66 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, he beat that dead horse as long as he 67 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: possibly come. 68 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: And he said there was only one shooter in in 69 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: Deeley Plaza. 70 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know, and you know suddenly he's you know, 71 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: give him an inch, cowboy. 72 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: God. 73 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: Look that's that's not to my credit, that's Eddie Murphy. Okay. 74 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, you know when this occurred, I was at 75 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: work and I'm talking about the photo. Dun't and all 76 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: of us at Jacksonville State University that work in the 77 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: forensics department are either current or former practitioners. And when 78 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: I say that, we've got a wide array of people 79 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: that have worked in a variety of different jurisdictions. I've 80 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: got one colleague that's a former Boston Area police officer 81 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: and detective who I just treasure, and people that have 82 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: worked for state police agencies. You know, I mean everybody 83 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: to a person on our staff has worked homicide cases. 84 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: And I did kind of an informal poll with them, Dave, 85 00:05:55,200 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: and I said, let me ask you something, to the 86 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: best of your recollection, do you ever recall having put 87 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: the bracelets on a perpetrator, put together a case file, 88 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: took said case file to the DA prosecutor true bills 89 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: a scene with grand jury, You get an indictment, you 90 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: go through all the pre trial prep, you take them 91 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: to court. You a trial, and they're adjudicated guilty and 92 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: they are pedaled off to the state penitentiary for homicide. 93 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: To the best of your recollection, did any of the 94 00:06:52,560 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: departments you were affiliated with continue to release information regarding 95 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: a case of a homicide? And to a person, Dave, 96 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: they said no. Now, I know what people are thinking, Well, 97 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: there's stuff that's leaked all the time. That's not what 98 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I'm talking about an official release of 99 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: data in the wake, in the wake of a conviction. 100 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: I don't understand what purpose it serves. I really don't. 101 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: And there's been so much about these cases, Dave that 102 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: I have not understood. And look, I'm not directing the 103 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: totality of that comment toward Coburger's team. You know this 104 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: cuts both ways. You know, there are so many things 105 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: that were done relative to how the whole case was handled, 106 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: and I know that there's a lot of stuff that 107 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: we didn't see that went on behind the scenes. I'll 108 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: give you that, but you know, just just some of 109 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: the initial handling of the case and kind of how 110 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: some of the authorities involved in this thing have worked it. 111 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm using in my lexicon now, I'm 112 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: using the term foreshadowing a lot. And I'm really wondering 113 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: those early signs that we saw of this case being 114 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: handled air quotes, I wonder if that's a foreshadowing of 115 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: what we're seeing right now. You know that, Yeah, you know, 116 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: you begin to tear up the steel ball in the beginning, 117 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: which seems like it would be impossible, but yet here 118 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: you go, you're continuing to do it. And I got 119 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: to tell you, Dave, there's one thing that really just 120 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: eats at the in my brain in this thing, is 121 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: that is there going to be a misstep in this thing? 122 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden there's going to be a 123 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: problem with post conviction appeals. 124 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 2: Now, which, by the way, as part of his conditions 125 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: of his plea deal, he was not allowed to appeal anything. However, 126 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 2: we all know that's not worth anything, but Joe to 127 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 2: back up and look at where we are today. The 128 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: reason for looking at Coberger's case today is because there 129 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: have been new allegations that one did did Brian Koberger 130 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 2: have help in the murders? And right before we started taping, 131 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: was there a second weapon used in the murders? And 132 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: I will tell you this, I went back to my 133 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 2: notes to find where we talked about the possibility of 134 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 2: a second weapon, and I want you to re explain 135 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 2: what it is and why, because I know you can. 136 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: First of all, you know the whole idea of two 137 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 2: weapons being used and one guy. Well, if there's two 138 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: weapons and there's two guys, then maybe you got something. 139 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: So as we begin to really break this down, not 140 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: knowing how far a field this is going to go, 141 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: because every time I think we're done, there's something new 142 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: that falls. But starting with the case and just the facts, 143 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 2: not the not the ideas that are being spun in 144 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 2: true crime chat rooms by people who are really good 145 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: at reading books written by Anne Rule and they become 146 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: a couch detective. You know, let's just look at the 147 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: facts we know for a fact because Brian well, no, 148 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 2: we know Brian Coberger said he did this. We know 149 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 2: that he has admitted to this, and you and I 150 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: have seen plenty of evidence of him in his vehicle 151 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: arriving on the scene. Am I right there, Joe, him 152 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 2: and his white A Lantra. 153 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know again that was early on. You 154 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: know these dumps that were that I was just the 155 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: aforementioned you know dumps there was the video dump that 156 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: came out famously when you know, at that moment time 157 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: we had another view that we had never seen, right, 158 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: and the speeding up, the speeding away, you know, continuing 159 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: to kind of orbit the location. And I got to 160 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: tell you, you know, putting aside what was found inside of 161 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: that King Road address, it seemed it appeared at that 162 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: moment tom rather damning. And it doesn't matter if it's 163 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: damning to me at all. I mean it's not. I'm 164 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: not the one that's investigating, and certainly not the one 165 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: that prosecuted the case. But for whatever reason, the police, 166 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: I think, felt that that video evidence was rather compelling. 167 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: And I got to tell you it would seem as 168 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: though the totality of the evidence that that the police 169 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: had collected and processed. Guess who else felt like it 170 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: was rather compelling Coburger's team, because you know that they 171 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: are the people that are advising him. But what we 172 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: do know is that on that fateful night or early 173 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: morning hours, it's dark outside, someone entered that residence. Now 174 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: there are people out there saying right now that more 175 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: than one person entered that residence, you know, and there 176 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: was admittedly a horrific crime that was committed. Police along 177 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: the way and investigators that are involved in this case 178 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: have felt as though that both of the young women 179 00:12:52,480 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: upstairs were killed first. And I I don't have a 180 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: quarrel with that on any level, because whoever entered that 181 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: house had surveiled that house, they knew about it, they 182 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: knew points of access to that house. They had surveiled it. 183 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: There was a perfect perch up behind the house, Dave, 184 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: where you could look down and see and yeah, that night, 185 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: when you see that car orbiting around that area, it's 186 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: not the first time. It's just it's not the first time. 187 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, I don't think that 188 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: they were merely surveiled at their house. I think that 189 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: they were probably seen in other locations and surveiled there 190 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: as well. So someone's going to know, and someone is 191 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: going to feel very very comfortable about entering this house 192 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: and this public knowledge that that slider, the sliding door 193 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: on the rear was left unsecured, right, and so it 194 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: would be very very easy to get in and out 195 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: of that residence in order to facilitate you know, this horror. 196 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: You think about the two women upstairs that are brutalized 197 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: and we'll get into that again when we talk about 198 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: the two weapons here in a moment, or the two 199 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: weapon theory. They're brutalized up on that floor, but you know, Dave, 200 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: they're contained. They're co sleeping, right, they're co sleeping. They're 201 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: in a contained area. And here's one thing that we 202 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: still don't know. I to this date have yet to 203 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: see a toxicology report on any of the victims that 204 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: are involved in this. As a matter of fact, it's 205 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: so called autopsy reports that were released this past week. 206 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: They're not full autopsy reports because you know, I'm missing 207 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: well a lot of the narrative. I didn't see anything 208 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: like organ weights and measurements and you know, all those 209 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: sorts of things. We just essentially got this kind of 210 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: blast that went out to this point. It was selective. 211 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: I think Coburg's team would have seen it. They would 212 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: have seen every dirty detail in that because that's part 213 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: of discovery. You know, they're going to have that. Oh, 214 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: by the way, they're also going to have talks. They'll 215 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: know what the talks was on each victim in this house, Dave. 216 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: And we don't have that talk screen yet. 217 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: Or no, no, I haven't seen it. I've asked around, I've searched, 218 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of speculative stuff that's out there. 219 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: You know, I've heard all kinds of things mentioned. You'd 220 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: be surprised, but yet there it is, and it floats 221 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: about and you can, you know, you can speculate all 222 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: you want, but it's hard to argue when you get 223 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: those hard numbers in about what the blood alcohol level 224 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: was like whatever other kind of of substances, substances may 225 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: have been on board, Dave. But you know, after this 226 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: is perpetrated upstairs and we're talking, this is after four am, 227 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: this individual that committed this crime or crimes makes their 228 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: way down the staircase. Now, I still hold to the 229 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: idea that on some level Xana had an awareness. We 230 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: know that she had been up right. What do you 231 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: think about that? What's your thoughts about iday in? 232 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: I believe based on really more than anything else, Dylan Mortenson. 233 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 2: What Dylan Mortenson told police on the body cam footage. 234 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: Dylan being one of the other roommates downstairs. You know, 235 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: there were two roommates that were not killed. Of the 236 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: four other people that there are six people in the house. 237 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 2: Dylan Mortenson is the one who saw Coberger gave the 238 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 2: bushy eyebrow description, but Dylan Mortensen said that she heard 239 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: and she wrongly in the moment said it. She thought 240 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: it was Kaylee or Maddie, but it was Xana who 241 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: was up. Because Kaylee and Maddie were on the top 242 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: floor in the bedroom. Xana had gone up the stairs, 243 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: I think, because she heard ruckus going on, the same 244 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: ruckus that Dylan Mortenson thought was Maddie playing with the dog. 245 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: Xanna went up to check it out because it was 246 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 2: right above her room and gets halfway up the stairs 247 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 2: and realizes there's a man in the house and says 248 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 2: something to that effect loud enough for Dylan to hear 249 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 2: there's a man in the house. She then, I believe, 250 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,479 Speaker 2: tries to get back to safety of some type and 251 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: Coburger attacks catches up to her at the bottom of 252 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: the stairs. She gets to her room, where, based on 253 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: the pictures that we did see, Joe a horrific battle 254 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 2: to place. Yeah, and I believe Xanakrinodle put up the 255 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 2: fight of her life and probably wore Coburger out. 256 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: Well. Yeah, and I think that when when that subject, 257 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: that person, that individual was finally in her bedroom, at 258 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:26,479 Speaker 1: that moment, Tom, He's already spent. Yeah, you know, I 259 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: I was. I was on air with both my buddy 260 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: Vinnipolitan and also Jesse Weber, who, by the way, shout 261 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: out to Jesse. Jesse's got a brand new show on 262 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: News Nation and it drops every evening at eleven eleven PM. 263 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: I highly recommend you watch Jesse show. I've been working 264 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: with him for years, and you know, we we talked 265 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: about the injuries relative to this blurb, these blurbs, autopsy 266 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: blurbs that were sent out, and they you know, we're 267 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: talking a total of one hundred and sixty injuries that 268 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: this sing details. So yeah, I think that by the 269 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: time he would have gotten down to Xanna's bedroom, he 270 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: is spent. But you're going to have another adrenaline dump 271 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: with him because you know, at this moment time people 272 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: are saying, well, how in the world could one person 273 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: have done this? Well, I'll go through all that in 274 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: just a moment, but I got to tell you just 275 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: on the surface of it, Xana, heroically, by the way, 276 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: she was the one individual that was impeding him from 277 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: exiting that house, and she got the worst of it. 278 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: I mean, she really did Dave, I mean, just absolutely brutalized. 279 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: It appears that Ethan never got up out of that bed. 280 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: Now why he didn't, I have no idea. I don't know. 281 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: I think that the idea that he's laying there, you know, 282 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: goes to a broader conversation relative to toxicology and those 283 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: sorts of things, because he never and he's a robust 284 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: young man, he never got up, never got up out 285 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: of that bed, at least from what we're hearing at 286 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: this moment. But you know, when it's all said and done, 287 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: the perpetrator in this crime stabbed, cut and beat the 288 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: life out of each of these four young people. And 289 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: apparently there was a plan and it came off like 290 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: gangbusters as far as the perpetrator was concerned. I know, 291 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: I've had this conversation before, Dave, and it bears repeating Jimmy, 292 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: when I was first covering this case and the intensity had, 293 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: you know, just picked up, particularly in light of the 294 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: finding the sheath. You know, she in her own way 295 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: decided to She's like, my husband's got to have this knife, 296 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: and as as a president, as a surprise president, Amazon 297 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: delivers one to my house, and she's I wanted you 298 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: to have this so that you can use it, you know, 299 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: on air and for demonstration purposes. And for me it 300 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: was really important, you know. Credit my wife here, she 301 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: kind of understood it. It was really important for me 302 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: to hold to hold this weapon. And it is a weapon, Okay, 303 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: make no mistake about it. This this knife, this k 304 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: bar knife was designed for war, all right. They're all 305 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: manner of different types of knives that are out there. 306 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: I mentioned this the I think when I was on 307 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: with Jesse the other day, Dave, you know, we're just 308 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: coming off. I guess it was a month ago that 309 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: Nick Reiner, you know, has been accused of brutalizing boats 310 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: of his parents in their bedroom coming in and I've 311 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: heard just kind of snatches along the way that it 312 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: may have been some type of butcher knife that was 313 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: retrieved from the kitchen. Don't confuse the knife that may 314 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: have been used in that case with a k bar. 315 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: You know, Marines have utilized this knife not just not 316 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: just to kill, but it's a utility knife in the 317 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: sense that on those horrible desert highlands that they were 318 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: in South Pacific, they were opening up crates of ammunition, 319 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: they were hammering crates of ammunition. They were stringing up 320 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: laundry with these things to dry their clothes. It had multiple, 321 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: multiple usages. But the main purpose of this thing, which 322 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: by the way, actually has a blood groove cut into it. 323 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: Actually there's a channel on the sides of it, and 324 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: they refer to it as a blood groove. You see it. 325 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: You see it with military knives in particular, and it 326 00:23:52,880 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: facilitates this thing passing easily through tissue, okay, and it 327 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: pushes the weight out to the perimeter of this thing. Now, 328 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: this knife weighs about two it's zero point seven pounds, 329 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: so it's almost a pound, all right. The blade itself 330 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: is just over seven inches in length. So when you 331 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: think about maximum penetration with saying, you've got the weight 332 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: of this knife being driven down and that kinetic transfer 333 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: into the body, into anybody with this thing is going 334 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: to do a lot of damage. But it's got multiple utilities. Dave, 335 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: and this article that came out in People magazine, I 336 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: wanted to address this because that in the last couple 337 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: of days is what I've been asked asked about over 338 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: and over again. The knife has In one part of 339 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: this article, this expert that was hired by By the 340 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: defense team had put forth his opinion in regards to 341 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: this that there were more than one weapon involved. I 342 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 1: could see how somebody could maybe come to that conclusion. Okay, However, 343 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: unlike other knives, the k bar in particular, like I said, 344 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: has multiple utility. You can flip this thing around so 345 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: that the butt end of it is facing downward, and 346 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: I urge you by just go look at the pictures 347 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: that are on the Internet of this thing. If you'll 348 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: look down the long access at the butt end, it 349 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: looks like a hammer head and it's that heavy, so 350 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 1: that if you're wielding this thing and you're holding it, 351 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: let's say, in an inverted position, and you're driving it 352 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: down over and over again. You know, they talked about 353 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: the extensive injuries to Kaylee in particular, where her face 354 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: is literally crushed. You're not capable are They're not capable 355 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: of actually stating how many wounds were specifically involving her face. 356 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: And that's because you've got cross communication of these insults. 357 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: A lot of these things are lacerations. They're not like 358 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: edge weapon cuts. So this thing is being driven into 359 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: her face. I think there's a pattern abrasion that maybe 360 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: it was her or or Maddie. I can't recall, but 361 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: there's a pattern abrasion that's I think I was Kenya, 362 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: so it's Kayley. The question is, we don't know what 363 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: the most of the time where the complete autopsy report, 364 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: what you will see from the pathologist is they will 365 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: render an opinion about what type of instrument could have 366 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: generated this. Okay, we're not seeing that at this point 367 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: in time because the door has been shut on that 368 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: and will remain shut for the foreseeable future, you know, 369 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: kind of like what toxicology all right now, Listen, if 370 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 1: it's proven that there were two weapons involved in this, 371 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: you know, god speed, I'm happy for you. But to 372 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: this point, that has never entered into the conversation. As 373 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,959 Speaker 1: far as the investigators were concerned, they have solely been 374 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: focused on the k bar knife that should have been 375 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: in that sheath, and of course it's never been found, 376 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: so it would be very difficult to do an analysis 377 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: of this. Because one of the things I was really 378 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: fascinated about relative to the knife, Dave and I'd said 379 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: this early on, just imagine that you know what we've 380 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: stated earlier, that Coburger's starting out on the top floor. 381 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: And notice I'm saying his name. I said I would 382 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: not say his name anymore, but we have to for 383 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: these purposes. With Coburger starting out on the top floor, 384 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,120 Speaker 1: this knife is pristine when he shows up up there. Okay, 385 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: So he's got both Kaylee and Mattie cornered in this bed, 386 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: and every time he strikes one and he gets blood 387 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: on this knife from one victim, he then kind of 388 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,479 Speaker 1: inoculates the body of the other victim with the blood 389 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: from the first victim. And this kind of goes back 390 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: and forth and back and forth. So if it had 391 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: stopped right there and you recover the knife, whose blood 392 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: would you have found on it? Well, only Mattie and 393 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: Kayley's right, But keep in mind we don't have the knife. 394 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: As he makes his way down, now you're going to 395 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: have transfer of blood that will go from those two 396 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: victims upstairs to both Xanna and Ethan downstairs, and you 397 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: will get this constant commingling that goes on. But we 398 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: don't have the knife. Well that unless somebody recovers that knife, 399 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: and I would think that by the time they could 400 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: recover it wherever it is, the sample might be degraded, 401 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: or you might be able to get something. I don't 402 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: know how well it was cleaned before it was disposed of. 403 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 2: It. 404 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: It has been disposed of somewhere and out there, Dave, 405 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: in this area, there's a whole lot of places to 406 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: dispose of a knife that you will never find, all right. 407 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: So I don't think that it holds water that two 408 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: weapons were used, because the next idea here is that 409 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: it's not just two weapons, it's two people. And the 410 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: reason this is being said is that the expert is 411 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: holding that it is impossible for the accused Coburger, who 412 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: he was part of the team representing Coburger, It is 413 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: impossible that in this fifteen minute window roughly is what 414 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about here, that he could have gone upstairs, 415 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: killed both of these young women, and then gone downstairs, 416 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: met up with Xana, began assaulting her, and kills Ethan 417 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: in addition, you know, after she's retreated into the room. 418 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't think that that's an impossibility. I really don't, 419 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: because I think that it would be possible for one 420 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: single individual to perpetrate all four of these homicides, particularly, 421 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: you know, when you consider that there was a plan. 422 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: One of the very interesting components to all of this 423 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: that the expert that was hired by Coberger's team had 424 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: put forward is that there was an attempt to clean 425 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: up and there were and there was like an absence 426 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: of footprints, bloody footprints throughout the house. I got to 427 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: tell you, if someone is taking care, you're not necessarily 428 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: going to harvest bloody footprints in every single case, particularly 429 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: if you've got a case of containment. One thing that 430 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: I find interesting about this case we go back upstairs 431 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: to Kayley and Maddie's bedroom, is that what did I 432 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: say that? Is that spot adjacent to that bed and 433 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: on that bed that's where it happens. Now I can 434 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: tell you this guess where I think there would have 435 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: been a lot of blood on his person. I have 436 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: never left that behind and I always retreat back to 437 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: the evidence that that prosecution stated that they had relative 438 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: to this Dickey's jumpsuit. Again, a plan, right, So you've 439 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: got a set of coveralls on and I think that 440 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: there's a chance that it could have been super saturated. 441 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: You've got an individual that is probably gloved, okay, because 442 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: that is what you would do if you're planning, and 443 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: particularly if you'd even worked a mock crime scene as 444 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: an undergraduate candidate or maybe even a master's degree candidate 445 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: at your old Alaba mater. And so you're is it 446 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: possible that he could have gotten out of the house. 447 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: First off, let's just say that he eat, he's gloved, 448 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: his hands are gloved. They say, well, what happened to 449 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: the gloves. I'll tell you exactly what happened to the gloves. 450 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: They went into his pockets of the cover alls. And 451 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: if you've never seen a pair of these dickies coveralls, 452 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: they're huge and they have deep pockets. Do you know 453 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: why they have deep pockets Because they're used for people 454 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: to work in, So you put things, nut screws, you 455 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: can put a hammer in your pocket if you want to. 456 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: You can have just about anything on your person. But 457 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: there's covering that's going on. Now, what kind of coverings 458 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: would there have been for the shoes? Well, we think 459 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: about I don't know. Is it possible to go out 460 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: and get surgical shoe covers for your feet? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 461 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: absolutely and buy them on Amazon. That's no big deal. 462 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: You could pick them up somewhere. You could walk in 463 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: and pay cash for them at a medical supply store. 464 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: Because there's a lot of home healthcare people. You walk 465 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: in and you buy surgical coverings for shoes, nobody's going 466 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: to think about it. You know, my mother's sick at home. 467 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: I want to cover my shoes, you know, I want 468 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: to cover my feet. Or maybe if he had access 469 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: to crime scene processing supplies like at his old university, 470 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: and he had grabbed a handful of these things, he's 471 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: going to have them forever and ever. Amen, that's untraceable. 472 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: You know, I could have kids that walk out of 473 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: my classrooms with stuff, and I have a crime scene house. 474 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not saying that my kids are lifting anything, 475 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: but you understand this is not real difficult to do 476 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: in order to facilitate the other part to this that 477 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: the expert had mentioned is that there was evidence of 478 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: an attempt at a clean up at the scene, and 479 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: so ergo, that's evidence that two people were involved, which 480 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: I don't know how that comes about, because day I 481 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: saw the images of the house. I know you saw 482 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: the images of the house, of the interior of the house, David. 483 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: That house was not cleaned up. There was blood everywhere effort. 484 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: There was blood on multiple surfaces. 485 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 2: I was shocked at the amount of blood that As 486 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 2: a matter of fact, it's why I felt strongly about 487 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 2: not putting it on the air. I felt like what 488 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 2: I saw shocked me and pretty unshockable. So all I 489 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 2: could think of was the poor parents. It's all I 490 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,479 Speaker 2: keep thinking about is the parents and why why would 491 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 2: they have to see this? But now that we have 492 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 2: seen it, Joe, yeah, well, not only was it not 493 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 2: cleaned up, there was no effort to clean it up. 494 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: Yeah nothing, No, there's not. And you know one of 495 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: the things that happens when you and this comes from 496 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: long years of working the Morgue too, Yeah, I bet, 497 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: which is a very bloody environment. Okay, Now I have 498 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: worked in the Morgue, spilled quite a bit of blood 499 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: in the morgue. And when I say spilled, I mean 500 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: open up a body cavity and had blood dripped down 501 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: onto the floor. Guess what I do to not get 502 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: blood on my shoes, and I wear shoe covers. I 503 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: don't step in it. So if you're planned and you 504 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: have an awareness of where blood might be deposited, you're 505 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: not going to step in it and track it through. 506 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,879 Speaker 1: I mean, look, everybody wants to prattle on and on 507 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: about how this guy was a forensics expert. He knew. Okay, well, 508 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: let's follow that line of logic. I don't think he's 509 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: a forensics expert, but he's if he is exposed to 510 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: just enough of it, he's going to know that. One 511 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: of the base elements is is that you don't step 512 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: in the blood, all right, because it'll transfer onto you. 513 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: But the expert goes to say that it appeared that 514 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: some of the blood that was left behind was diluted, 515 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: with what he believes some kind of solution in plot. 516 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: I think cleaning solution. Okay. I mean, I'm glad that 517 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: he brought it seriously and all seriously, I'm glad that 518 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: he brought it up, okay, because I think that I 519 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 1: think that the more voices you have involved in this 520 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,479 Speaker 1: that can talk about it, you know, let's come, let's 521 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: come and reason together. All right, then let's let's have 522 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: a conversation about it. But if if you see blood 523 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: that appears to be diluted, how are you defining diluted? 524 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: Because blood can take on a certain appearance just over 525 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: a period of time, and we've talked about this, where 526 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: the serum begins to separate from the red blood cells 527 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: and You can look at a droplet of blood many 528 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: times and one end of the droplet or one puddle 529 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: of blood will be much darker than the other part 530 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: of the blood, which is the serum. And I've seen 531 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: this demonstrated over and over and over again. Now I 532 00:37:54,280 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: don't know now, I know that I do know that 533 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: they had a team, Coburger's team that walked through the residents. Remember, 534 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: the people in Idaho were trying to clean the place up, 535 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,320 Speaker 1: and when he got hooked up on charges, they were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, Nellie, 536 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: hold your horses here as right they should have. We 537 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: want our people to look through it before you know, 538 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: let's take down the plastic tent that you got over 539 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: the door that you're about to go in here and 540 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 1: steam clean this place. All right? 541 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 2: Just can we stop right there for just a minute, 542 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: because that is still I'm telling you, Joseph Scott Morgan. 543 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 2: The first trial I ever was that paid attention to 544 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 2: in a day and day out basis was in Raleigh, 545 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 2: North Carolina, and it was Jeffrey McDonald And it was 546 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 2: nearly ten years after the murder of his wife and 547 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 2: two little girls, where he was convicted of murder he 548 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 2: claimed a group of hippies came in and did it. 549 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 2: And they were able to all these years removed take 550 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 2: the jury nearly ten years after the murders, they were 551 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 2: able to take the jury from that trial and take 552 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 2: them to the crime scene where they could walk in 553 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 2: the room They could see where the battle took place 554 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 2: that McDonald claimed, you know, where the fight happened. They 555 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 2: actually saw where the wood was cut from the floorboard 556 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 2: that had a footprint. You know, the jury was able 557 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 2: to see that. With what happened in Moscow. To this day, 558 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 2: frustrates me to no end that they took the house 559 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 2: down and they because you cannot you cannot see it 560 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 2: for what it is, if it's no longer in existence, 561 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 2: it's just in a three D form on a computer. 562 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 2: And that bothered me. Then it bothers me now. But 563 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 2: you know what, not just from the prosecution of the 564 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 2: defense or anything. It bothers me for the sake of 565 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,479 Speaker 2: are we after justice? You know, if we're really after 566 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 2: the truth, if we really want to make sure the 567 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 2: right person pays for the crime, then we need to 568 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 2: have all of the evidence possible. And that's a big 569 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 2: piece of evidence. You're getting rid of. 570 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's huge. I mean, it's it's the structure in 571 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: which this took place. And for me, you know, I 572 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: always had a problem and talked about it extensively and 573 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: you know, had my critics on that. There were a 574 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: lot of people said, well, it doesn't make any difference. 575 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 1: They've documented everything. Really, you documented everything, you know, because 576 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I saw problems in the beginning, 577 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: and maybe I'll be proven wrong, you know, going down 578 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: the road. But you know, back to this, you know, 579 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: the house is gone obviously. Now you talk about clean 580 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: up here and trying to contextualize that that cleaned space, 581 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: cleaned space that you're alleging that's no more so you're reliant. 582 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: I wonder if this expert was part of that team 583 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 1: that went through the house. I want to know if 584 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: this individual was physically there was this a collection of 585 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: attorneys in p I perhaps foreign police officers that were 586 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,280 Speaker 1: given access so that they could walk the walk the house. 587 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: Because you know, I got to tell you, with this 588 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: particular expert that they have retained in this case, that 589 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: would have been invaluable to them. And I think that 590 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,400 Speaker 1: everybody in this country deserves a defense. Period into paragraph 591 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, you have to keep your emotions out of 592 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: it because someday I might need a defense. Okay, you 593 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,959 Speaker 1: might need a defense, brother, you know. So we yeah, 594 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: So you know, you want to be able. You want 595 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: to be able to do this because if you don't 596 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: do it, then, you know, going back to an earlier 597 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: you know, question that I had about appeals and all 598 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: those all those things you know, raise their ugly head 599 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: years and years later, and you know, can be problematic. 600 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: But look, you know this guy has put forth his 601 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: opinion about the case. I know that there is a 602 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: lot more data that is to be released relative to 603 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 1: this case or it's sitting there. The thing about it is, 604 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: you don't know when it's going to drop. It's kind 605 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: of like everybody's you know, right now, there's kind of 606 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: in this posture like they're sitting on a spring. You know, 607 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: it's like we did. Did you see the photo dump coming? 608 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: I didn't see it coming. I didn't see the autopsy 609 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: thing coming. And I didn't see the release of this 610 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: gentleman's report, which by the way, is not technically his 611 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: full report. I kind of, you know, giggled a little bit, 612 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: you know, you and I did, because air quotes People Magazine. 613 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: You know, People magazine. They say that it's sealed, but 614 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: they have access to it, you know, and so do 615 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: they just have access to a portion of it. I 616 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't. I never know what to believe 617 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: when it comes to some type of media organization about 618 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,800 Speaker 1: what they do and do not have, because it's almost 619 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,840 Speaker 1: like playing poker, you know, you can't you never know 620 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: you know what's fact and what's fiction. Here. Look, I'm hoping. 621 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: I'm hoping on one level that this is going to 622 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: be put to rest for the sake of the families. 623 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: I truly do, because they are literally all that's left behind. 624 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how impassioned I am or anybody else 625 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 1: out there, because you know, if you cloak yourself in 626 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 1: the idea that you're just seeking justice here, you know, 627 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 1: for well, according to the courts in Idaho, justice has 628 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: been served. Now we might not agree with how justice 629 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: was served or how they went about it. And I'll 630 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: say this in closing, I wish, out of everything that 631 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: had occurred in this case, the one thing that I 632 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: wish had occurred, for my money, was that Coburger would 633 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 1: have been compelled to allocute. You want to be spared. 634 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: You want to be spared being strapped to a chair 635 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: and shot as capital punishment is meted out. Here's the condition. 636 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,839 Speaker 1: You have to stand there and tell us what you did, 637 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 1: because you're pleading guilty. And I saw him plead guilty. 638 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 1: I saw them go down that list and ask him, 639 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 1: one by one by one that do you do you 640 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 1: admit to this? Yes, yes, guilty. But I think that 641 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 1: some of these questions could have been answered if he 642 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: had been compelled to alocute. Probably one of the biggest 643 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: mistakes that was made along the way. But you know what, 644 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,880 Speaker 1: I submit to you that the press is happy he 645 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:23,760 Speaker 1: didn't elocute because they can continue to breede life into 646 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: the cases of these four young lives that were wiped 647 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: out in November of twenty twenty two. I'm Joseph Scott 648 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is body Bags