Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, or production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime M
Speaker 1: Welcome back to All the Smoke, New York City. Yes, Yes, Yes,
Speaker 1: last and final show today. Man, we got a good one. Jack.
Speaker 1: I'm happy this somebody who I idolized. I've been idolized.
Speaker 1: I tell him all the time. But I'm gonna let
Speaker 1: you introduce before I introduced him, I when I thought
Speaker 1: of this show. He was one of the first people
Speaker 1: I hit like, g I need you, and he's like, uh.
Speaker 1: That's when he first started working on the book three
Speaker 1: three years ago to three years ago, three years ago,
Speaker 1: and we finally got him. You see, the book is
Speaker 1: out now they should you pick it up. But we
Speaker 1: got the one and only, my god big brother. I
Speaker 1: appreciate It's an honor and a privilege. I appreciate your patience.
Speaker 1: Come on, tak five years right this moment. It's just
Speaker 1: an honor to have you on. Um, let's get right
Speaker 1: to it. Talk about the book. What it's about. It's
Speaker 1: a boy, my life and my journey. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: going back growing up, dukiears Detroit, the injuries, going through
Speaker 1: that whole ordeal. I felt like getting in the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. That's a moment when you're going to be
Speaker 1: naturally reflective. You know, we go through life and as
Speaker 1: an athlete, you gotta go and just like like next
Speaker 1: you gotta just you don't get a chance to really
Speaker 1: reflect on what you're doing. But that moment, that celebration,
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, I need to do this,
Speaker 1: I need to write a book. And then you know,
Speaker 1: took a minute in the process and in COVID and
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the case may be, but it was
Speaker 1: it was an incredible exercise. I think everybody should go
Speaker 1: through the process. We all got a story. I think
Speaker 1: we get older, we go back and look at our lives,
Speaker 1: we learned the lessons. We can see things from an
Speaker 1: older perspective. I think it's about being vulnerable, it's about
Speaker 1: being introspective. Like it to me, the process of the
Speaker 1: book I got learned. It might sound crazy, but I
Speaker 1: learned more about myself. And I think we spend so
Speaker 1: much time, you know, we play, and you gotta stay
Speaker 1: in the moment and you keep every day you're fighting,
Speaker 1: you know, every day somebody's trying to take your spot.
Speaker 1: And then you retire and you're like, hey, what's next.
Speaker 1: We're all hustling trying to figure things out, and so
Speaker 1: we don't look back and we don't look back all
Speaker 1: the time and live in those moments. And so anyway,
Speaker 1: I don't want to get too deep on that, but
Speaker 1: like to me, um, it exceeded my expectations of of
Speaker 1: what I learned about myself and my growth and to
Speaker 1: share that and to be comfortable putting it all out
Speaker 1: there was you know, it's opening that door, really opening
Speaker 1: that door. And like you said, y'all both stories down
Speaker 1: the pipeline. Yeah, after watching the finals, everything that's going
Speaker 1: on right now, what's your what's your opinions so far?
Speaker 1: You know, Golden State, I don't want to stay dominated,
Speaker 1: but they've won seven quarters, you know, two games eight
Speaker 1: quarters and that fourth quarter Game one got away from them.
Speaker 1: They got to be kicking themselves right now. Um, but
Speaker 1: the way they came out in game two, Um, they
Speaker 1: were able to take away the you know, the others.
Speaker 1: So like Boston hasn't played well at home throughout this
Speaker 1: series and they've been up and down. They'll have a
Speaker 1: good game and then follow up with a bad game.
Speaker 1: So you know, I said, all along. I think Golden
Speaker 1: State in six I still think that. I still think
Speaker 1: Golden State will figure it out. I think Clay will
Speaker 1: play better. Um I like this Boston team though. I
Speaker 1: like the way they defend. They got a toughness about them.
Speaker 1: Tatum's gotten better, um Brown, I mean the way they
Speaker 1: played together. It reminds me a little bit of like
Speaker 1: what could have been with me and t mac if
Speaker 1: I had been healthful. But um no, I mean I
Speaker 1: think Golden State, which is incredible thinking what they've been
Speaker 1: through the last three years to get back. And this
Speaker 1: might be and this is no disrespect towards Golden State,
Speaker 1: but this might be their most at least talented roster
Speaker 1: of all the teams they had going to THEE. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say most meaningful. Okay, yeah, you're definitely definitely
Speaker 1: don't agree with you. I agree with you. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean they had I think we led them before.
Speaker 1: Obviously their core was great and young, but they had
Speaker 1: a strong veteran bench and that's what they made that
Speaker 1: dynasty run for. Then to lose Katie, Clay gets hurt,
Speaker 1: Steph gets her, They fall flat on their face. To
Speaker 1: be able to read like teams don't rebuild that fast.
Speaker 1: Remember step said we're gonna be a problem next year.
Speaker 1: They didn't make the play in last year, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, So for them to bounce back and
Speaker 1: get I think this will probably be one of the
Speaker 1: most meaningful ones to them in my opinion. I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree. You know it looks and I went through it,
Speaker 1: you know, my injury and all that, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: we're getting into it. But when something's kind of taken away,
Speaker 1: you turn to appreciate the value with more and so
Speaker 1: I know Clay obviously what he's going through. But it's
Speaker 1: a feel good story, and you know, I think everyone
Speaker 1: likes to see them get back to the mountaintop. I
Speaker 1: know it's good for ratings when gold States there, but
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's been a good series. I think Boston's
Speaker 1: gonna win another game or so. But I think I
Speaker 1: think Golden State went great learning experience too though. For Boston,
Speaker 1: you know that they're getting a great taste to me
Speaker 1: on on how to do it on the biggest stage,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They had a media success
Speaker 1: tatums rookie or you make the Eastern Finals, Lebron beat
Speaker 1: you took a while to kind of figure it out.
Speaker 1: Email you dugga shout out, email you dug a first
Speaker 1: year coach to kind of get his hands on the
Speaker 1: team and be able to form them so fast. Took
Speaker 1: a half a season, and they've been the best team
Speaker 1: in the league the second half of the year. So
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a great learning experience. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously it's never promised. We all know that going back
Speaker 1: to the finals has never promised. But I think they're
Speaker 1: gonna learn a lot from this finals obviously. Yeah. Look,
Speaker 1: I mean there was a lot of criticism this year
Speaker 1: early on. Could could those guys co exist? They were
Speaker 1: seventeen and nineteen before the new year. Um, But they
Speaker 1: figured it out and all that. You know, as we know,
Speaker 1: you go through tough times, it just it builds s grit,
Speaker 1: it builds resolved and they got a lot of runway
Speaker 1: in front of them. And so this team, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not good for my Hawks, but this team is
Speaker 1: gonna be for real for for many years. How do
Speaker 1: you think you would be in this ror your game?
Speaker 1: You know, I think I think with the spacing and
Speaker 1: then now they've taken a little bit of physicality out
Speaker 1: of the game. I think I could. It's just more open.
Speaker 1: You think about it. Back in the day you have
Speaker 1: big guys in the paint clogging up and I like
Speaker 1: that you was still dunking on them though. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you know, is so nice the league.
Speaker 1: You already know that, like like when you look bad.
Speaker 1: Like we we were in Detroit. We were having a
Speaker 1: game like, we didn't run, we played methodical, we didn't
Speaker 1: get up and down like it is now. So yeah, man,
Speaker 1: and the money and the money money, so but you know,
Speaker 1: I mean I enjoyed my time. It was. It was
Speaker 1: a different league. The games evolved, the shootings. But I
Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of things that are better. There's
Speaker 1: some things I don't like about the current league. Um
Speaker 1: but um yeah, man, I mean y'all mean to do
Speaker 1: right here in this era fun no question size for us. Man. Look,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I know you played with Draymond. Every time
Speaker 1: I see Draymond, I say this, but I'm like Draymond,
Speaker 1: you checked in the game, I would have been dropped
Speaker 1: three most to you. I don't know how he like,
Speaker 1: he's like a rim protector and he's in there. How
Speaker 1: tall is six But he gets it done. Man, I
Speaker 1: don't you know. But anyway, it was a different league, man.
Speaker 1: But yeah, one player, you think, one player you want
Speaker 1: to play with today? I mean right now. Obviously he's
Speaker 1: getting up there and things are a little bit crazy
Speaker 1: in l A. But I would have liked to play
Speaker 1: with Lebron. And I don't know Lebron like that. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've always been good and but I don't I'm not
Speaker 1: in his circle like that. But um, I think everybody
Speaker 1: that plays with him, he's like a glue guy. Guys
Speaker 1: that play with them love him like he's inclusive. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, he he thinks the game at a high level.
Speaker 1: I also think no one's endured as much hate. We
Speaker 1: talked about that, Yeah, the hype and what he's done,
Speaker 1: but just you think about, like Jordan didn't have to
Speaker 1: experience that when we played in the nineties. It was
Speaker 1: talk radio, maybe the newspaper, but you didn't hear the noise,
Speaker 1: you didn't hear the slander. And now for someone like him,
Speaker 1: the face of the franchise, who's been so good, but
Speaker 1: he's got to endorsed so much. Justna we all get it.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys, So let me just I got
Speaker 1: sorry about math. So I'm sorry, man, I'm getting off.
Speaker 1: So when Twitter, when Twitter first came out, I think
Speaker 1: we were in there. Maybe it was Instagram, I can't whatever,
Speaker 1: so mad, you know, somebody might say something slipped the
Speaker 1: Matt on Twitter, and Matt would come back at him
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, Let'm taking We're gonna be in
Speaker 1: your city on this day and we're staying at this hotel.
Speaker 1: Meet me at seven am in the lobby. He pulled
Speaker 1: me to the side one day. You stop that, but
Speaker 1: so he wanted all the smoke, but like literally, like
Speaker 1: I was like yeah, but like, you know, just it
Speaker 1: was around that time the game was changing. But we
Speaker 1: hear all that and we're adults, we're older, we're we're
Speaker 1: you know, I'm almost be fifty this year. But d
Speaker 1: young kids, man, Like I think it does affect them
Speaker 1: a little bit when they hear all that and they're
Speaker 1: still impressionable, there's still trying to find their way. So
Speaker 1: I don't envy that. And I think Lebron has been
Speaker 1: sort of the poster boy at that and so I
Speaker 1: admire that he's been able to just you know, you
Speaker 1: don't know, he's winning, you don't know he's doing, you know,
Speaker 1: but he he handles all that and handles it well
Speaker 1: very well. Yeah. Uh. Born in Dallas, Texas. Uh, your
Speaker 1: dad was a Pro Bowl Super Bowl champ with the
Speaker 1: running with the Cowboys there the last time they won
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. Don't do that. Don't do that. Mom
Speaker 1: was successful business. Only child. Um, football, you're always in
Speaker 1: the mix as a youngster football. Talk about those times
Speaker 1: growing up as an only child in that environment. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I was the only child of two only children,
Speaker 1: and um, so it was just us and but you know,
Speaker 1: football was my first love and grew up around it.
Speaker 1: I was I was named by Roger Starback. So my dad,
Speaker 1: my mom and dad were expecting a girl. And obviously
Speaker 1: I'm not a girl. Um, so my dad can't make
Speaker 1: up his mind. And so I was baby boy Hill
Speaker 1: for like three days and Starback came to the hospital
Speaker 1: and you know, came up with the name Grant, named
Speaker 1: after my paternal grandmother's maiden name. Um. And so we
Speaker 1: moved to d C. And you know, that rivalry, particularly
Speaker 1: in the late seventies early eighties, it's always been intense.
Speaker 1: But it was the Redskins were good cowboys coming off
Speaker 1: the seventies, so I was a die like I'm a
Speaker 1: cowboy fan like die Hard. That was tough being in
Speaker 1: d C and being he's not a come on all teams.
Speaker 1: That's a nemesis right there. But look, I was on
Speaker 1: the I was on the parade on the float when
Speaker 1: the Redskins won, and I think it was eight two
Speaker 1: eighty three they beat the Dolphins. So I was on
Speaker 1: the float. Dave Butts, who was the a lineman. I
Speaker 1: went on the float with him and his family, and
Speaker 1: I remember how proud of was because under my jacket
Speaker 1: had a cowboy shirt off and so that was but
Speaker 1: but football was everything, man, and my dad wouldn't let
Speaker 1: me play. He wouldn't let me play until I got
Speaker 1: the high school and so, um that killed me. And
Speaker 1: you know, I resented it, and uh and so I
Speaker 1: kind of got away from it. And by the time
Speaker 1: I was in high school, you know, I wanted to play.
Speaker 1: I was in basketball, I was all in, but football
Speaker 1: was my first love. Question when did you realize basketball
Speaker 1: can take your places? I first, I first fell in
Speaker 1: love with basketball. Eighty two Final four, Jordan hit that shot.
Speaker 1: Jordan North Carolina Georgetown. We we bought a Beta Max.
Speaker 1: We taped that game, and so that was when I
Speaker 1: fell in love. And then a couple of years later,
Speaker 1: my dad and I started going to Final four's. So
Speaker 1: when Georgetown won in eighty four and we went every
Speaker 1: year from maybe four to eighty eight, that was a
Speaker 1: little you know, father's son bonding or whatever. And so
Speaker 1: I think for me it was probably like a you
Speaker 1: I was thirteen and we went to St. Louis. First
Speaker 1: game we played, we played Webber Super Friends, and I
Speaker 1: talked about it in the book. Like my dad he
Speaker 1: was he saw that he saw all these guys, he
Speaker 1: saw us, and he was like, I'm gonna get my
Speaker 1: speech ready for the case they lose. And we smacked him.
Speaker 1: We beat him, and and and so then that tournament
Speaker 1: we won the national championship. And so at that point,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, like seeing myself gauging myself
Speaker 1: against other kids. Alan Henderson was at Jamal Mashburn and
Speaker 1: these guys all made it to the NBA. Year old.
Speaker 1: You say, we have a thirteen, But here's the thing
Speaker 1: I was. I was young for my grade. So I
Speaker 1: started college or high school at thirteen. I started college
Speaker 1: at seventeen, so I should have been probably you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But I was going into high school,
Speaker 1: and so I played varsity as a freshman. Well, those
Speaker 1: guys were grade and so when I came back the
Speaker 1: next year, I was like, I was, I had surpassed
Speaker 1: all of them. We lost in the finals. I still
Speaker 1: got the m v P. And so that was when
Speaker 1: around that time it was like, Okay, I got a
Speaker 1: chance to to I wasn't thinking the NBA, but I
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Speaker 1: mama gave you, Nah, shake with your daddy gave you.
Speaker 1: What was your recruiting process? Like you know it was good,
Speaker 1: it was you know, I mean for me, it was
Speaker 1: it was. It was Carolina Georgia that was with the
Speaker 1: two schools, and I love dad wants you to go UNC. Yeah,
Speaker 1: mama wants you to to go to ourtown. That's right. So
Speaker 1: we we had we had we had, we had season
Speaker 1: tickets so we would go to Georgia games. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, Michael Jackson played was point guard,
Speaker 1: so he went to my high school. He used to
Speaker 1: work for my mother in the summers. My mom introduced
Speaker 1: pat Ewing to his wife. So I was so I
Speaker 1: was entrenched for Georgia, like I was all in um.
Speaker 1: Like we all were I think at that time black team.
Speaker 1: I thought it was I thought it was an HBCU back.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was like I didn't realize it
Speaker 1: was a private school. But so Georgetown, Carolina, Michigan, Virginia
Speaker 1: and Duke and I made my first visit and it
Speaker 1: was two Duke and Coach K just kind of blew
Speaker 1: me away. And I knew right then that I wanted
Speaker 1: to be there, and and the genius to coach K
Speaker 1: and I know, you know, love hate Duke and all that.
Speaker 1: And obviously now he's had he had great success at
Speaker 1: the end and coach the Olympic team, but his ability
Speaker 1: to get people to buy in. He wasn't a great
Speaker 1: xCE and O coach, but like if he sat, he
Speaker 1: looked you in the eye, like you believed in him.
Speaker 1: And that was his genius, getting everybody to kind of
Speaker 1: like buy in to him and buy into one another.
Speaker 1: And so Duke dude really was my faith. But like,
Speaker 1: you know, it just felt right, and you know, made
Speaker 1: that decision, and you know, unfortunately we we made history,
Speaker 1: you win titles in the famous Christian laden shot. How
Speaker 1: big was that moment? Man? It's crazy, you know, It's
Speaker 1: crazy to think that was thirty years ago and people
Speaker 1: still people still talk about it. But Um, Christian was
Speaker 1: a great college player. I mean Alonso Shack, Um, I
Speaker 1: mean everybody he faced. He dominated Shack twice and he
Speaker 1: um and we had a good team. I mean, Bobby
Speaker 1: was a great college point guard. I was you know,
Speaker 1: I was a good player. He had three he had
Speaker 1: three guys in the College Basketball Hall of Fame and
Speaker 1: so um. So those moments were incredible. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't think we realized why we were doing it, the
Speaker 1: significance of what was happening. We were just trying to win.
Speaker 1: We were I was nineteen, I was a kid. And
Speaker 1: but that passed the later that shot Um later didn't
Speaker 1: miss the shot the whole game later, it was cocky.
Speaker 1: Later was like he talked trash um. He also had
Speaker 1: a He was a great teammate as well. I remember
Speaker 1: we had a game I talked about in the book.
Speaker 1: We had a game we went to Buffalo to play
Speaker 1: Canisius and he was a game for him, going back
Speaker 1: to his hometown. And at halftime he had like one
Speaker 1: or two shots, and Coach K's like, like, Christian, what's
Speaker 1: going on? Like, this game is for you. You act
Speaker 1: like you don't want to play, and he's like, I
Speaker 1: want my hometown to see how good my teammates are.
Speaker 1: And so you know, you you're coming back home college
Speaker 1: player of the Year, you won't try to show out.
Speaker 1: But he was trying to show us out. And so
Speaker 1: he you know, you don't hear about that side of Christian.
Speaker 1: You just here the you know, the crazy, and there
Speaker 1: was a lot of craziness. But um, but he was.
Speaker 1: He was a great competitor, you know, he he and
Speaker 1: he and he did his work. He did his thing
Speaker 1: with all the noise and knowing how everybody feel about Duke,
Speaker 1: is the brotherhood tight enough to block out the noise
Speaker 1: and stay strong? You know? Yeah? I mean it's funny, man,
Speaker 1: because I don't think we were aware of what people's
Speaker 1: perceptions were back then a Duke and I looked at
Speaker 1: Duke no different than I looked at Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Georgetown.
Speaker 1: These are p wise that have good basketball teams. And
Speaker 1: so I get it with the you know, us beating
Speaker 1: Vegas and the fan five and obviously Jalen's documentary and
Speaker 1: how they felt towards us. But I wasn't aware of that,
Speaker 1: Like honestly, like we we got along with every like
Speaker 1: you know, web was my guys. I talked some stories
Speaker 1: about Webb. And then when we're in high school, he
Speaker 1: used to come visit me in Virginia. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we didn't have social media and we need the newspaper
Speaker 1: back then. So we were in Durn. We go to Durn,
Speaker 1: we go to cookouts, barbecue's, barbershot. Everybody showed love. So
Speaker 1: I don't think I was aware that there was this stigma. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like this now, I should have known better, because I
Speaker 1: didn't like the Celtics for the very reason people didn't
Speaker 1: like us. I was a Laker fan, and I identified
Speaker 1: with the Lakers. But I think because we had really
Speaker 1: good white players and had a very later parly, maybe
Speaker 1: I fit this, like you know, my parents and you know,
Speaker 1: people thought what they thought about me. I think that
Speaker 1: might have contributed to the narrative. But at the time,
Speaker 1: like I was totally oblivious to that narrative and and
Speaker 1: not until years later, I even thought the hate towards
Speaker 1: Duke later on was because Duke has success like the
Speaker 1: Yankees or like um, you know, Cowboys. I didn't realize.
Speaker 1: I didn't really realize that you could have used a
Speaker 1: better example. But I feel you you know, you know,
Speaker 1: and so but I get it now, like I understand,
Speaker 1: and it was an interesting time and you know, and
Speaker 1: so you know, I get the had the brotherhood strong.
Speaker 1: Coach k moved on. You know, Shires recruited well, um,
Speaker 1: you know, we we hope to stay relevant, man, That's
Speaker 1: that's that's the main thing. Ninety four draft, you got
Speaker 1: number three overall to Detroit. What are you hearing leading
Speaker 1: up to the draft? I mean, Glenn Robinson, Jason Kidd yourself,
Speaker 1: what are you here leading up to their You're hearing
Speaker 1: one to three? So this was this was crazy. So Glenn,
Speaker 1: Glenn was Glenn was incredible in college thirty a game, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, he was. He was unreal, man, And I
Speaker 1: think he's underappreciated that people don't. They came into the
Speaker 1: first first year in the league scoring twenty one a game.
Speaker 1: So at the at the draft lottery, Mike Dunlevy, who
Speaker 1: was the coach of GM, puts up his jersey. So
Speaker 1: that's a sign they're gonna take him. So I figured
Speaker 1: know Dallas had the number two pick that had Jimmy Jackson,
Speaker 1: Jamal Mashburn. So they're gonna They're gonna take j Kidd.
Speaker 1: Was was the right right decision. So Detroit to me,
Speaker 1: they had Lindsay, they had Alan Houston. That felt like
Speaker 1: the right fit. But Milwaukee wanted me to come in
Speaker 1: and work out for him. I didn't want to go,
Speaker 1: and my agent was like, that's the number one pick.
Speaker 1: You gotta go out of respect. So I went there.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be there. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be in Milwaukee. I dogged the workout. Mike Dunley. He
Speaker 1: put me through this like he was. I was doing
Speaker 1: laughs and suicide. He was killing me. And then he
Speaker 1: wanted to play me one on one coach Dunley, and
Speaker 1: so I'm like, so we checked ball and I'm standing
Speaker 1: under the basket. He said the free thing. He said,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna guarden me. I said, I don't think
Speaker 1: you can make that, and man, he hit like ten
Speaker 1: in a row on me, man like I wouldn't but
Speaker 1: I wouldn't garden and uh, and I was like, what
Speaker 1: is he doing? Like you know, but you know, he
Speaker 1: wanted to see me compete against him, which I didn't get.
Speaker 1: But no, I didn't go. I don't even want to
Speaker 1: be there, and so you know this, yeah exactly, but um,
Speaker 1: but Detroit was where I wanted to be, and I
Speaker 1: felt like they had won recently, and you know the
Speaker 1: colors red, white, and blue. I felt was good, you know,
Speaker 1: good for my feelers. So I mean, he's right, you
Speaker 1: had a nice catalog of of Nike's over at Duke.
Speaker 1: What made you choose Feli because they were obviously a
Speaker 1: lesser known brand of so let somebody say what happened? Man?
Speaker 1: So so it was crazy. So I'll go out to
Speaker 1: Nike and you know, you go out there for your
Speaker 1: recruiting trip to take it to the store, you get
Speaker 1: all this stuff. So Phil Night, we obviously know his
Speaker 1: his genius. He was thinking about the Far East and
Speaker 1: he was like, man, if I could go into China
Speaker 1: and penetrate that market and there's a billion plus people
Speaker 1: that I can get shoes on them, like he was.
Speaker 1: He was talking about this in this meeting, and he
Speaker 1: wanted me to be via satellite the Great Wall of
Speaker 1: China for the draft and like that would be a
Speaker 1: way to break into that market. And I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I want to be I want to be I want
Speaker 1: to be with David Stern. You know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: that's a dream. We all dreamed that to getting drafted
Speaker 1: and that whole thing. And so but I tell that
Speaker 1: story like that's where his head was at. But when
Speaker 1: it's started negotiating, the money wasn't like it wasn't fit
Speaker 1: in the vision, you know what I'm saying. And so
Speaker 1: I went over reluctantly over the meat Fela and I
Speaker 1: knew they had mashburn, but I know we we went through,
Speaker 1: we toured the facility and we sat in the boardroom
Speaker 1: and they had this this like proposal and on page
Speaker 1: two was the money. And I turned that page and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. I was like, you
Speaker 1: know the money that they were offering, like the guaranteed
Speaker 1: base salary and the Royal team. I was like, like,
Speaker 1: you said, get that bag. You're not the type of
Speaker 1: person to talk about this, but I just kind of
Speaker 1: want to have context because it can you explain what
Speaker 1: kind of money it was at that time compared to
Speaker 1: maybe what some of the guys may be getting today.
Speaker 1: So Nike was off for me about five hundred thousand
Speaker 1: and Philo was basically it was a five year, fifteen
Speaker 1: million dollar day. It was more money. So that was
Speaker 1: a guaranteed royalty, and the shoe ended up exceeding I
Speaker 1: think everyone's expectation. But I was like, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: to this day, still selling, I still get a royal teacher. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: First impression, Uh, it's it's in Detroit. It's the end
Speaker 1: of the bad boy era and now you're coming in
Speaker 1: to be the face of the franchise. Yeah. You know.
Speaker 1: It was crazy, man, because the team had won twenty games.
Speaker 1: I came in. There was a void in the league.
Speaker 1: MJ had retired. I think the league was looking for
Speaker 1: a face. I played in a hundred and twenties and
Speaker 1: of my games at Duke and all but five of
Speaker 1: them on national TV, so people, I think knew who
Speaker 1: I was, and I came out the gate and I
Speaker 1: was I was like, I came out the gate like
Speaker 1: I came out the gate. I think I got five,
Speaker 1: ten and five my first game against the Lakers, and
Speaker 1: like my first ten fifteen games, I was twenty more
Speaker 1: than twenty a game. I was calling my boys like, man,
Speaker 1: the NBA is easy, man like, and like, look, you know,
Speaker 1: until they get a Scott report on you and figuring out.
Speaker 1: But um, one thing that that helped me was that
Speaker 1: that summer before my freshman or my rookie year, you
Speaker 1: played pick up ball and then pick up ball, and
Speaker 1: you know I used to. I used to play with it.
Speaker 1: You know, I'd come down my my My favorite guy
Speaker 1: was the Pearl joined the Pearl. Kenny Anderson had great handles.
Speaker 1: I used to trying to be like Tim Hardaway Chris Jackson.
Speaker 1: So I would play with the ball, but when I
Speaker 1: played in the games, I would turn my back like
Speaker 1: like magic and and big guard. And so Quinn Snyder
Speaker 1: was like, man, you need to play like this in
Speaker 1: the league, like what you're doing out here and pick
Speaker 1: up You need to play this way, not turning your back.
Speaker 1: And so I didn't, you know, I didn't because I
Speaker 1: didn't see big guys doing that. So when I came
Speaker 1: in at six, hey I'm playing small forward, you didn't
Speaker 1: have guys doing that, and so they weren't used to
Speaker 1: having like Pipping could handle the ball, but Pipping didn't
Speaker 1: come at you like that, could couldn't go full speaking
Speaker 1: cross you. Yeah, So that that I think the ball
Speaker 1: handling I wasn't never a great shooter at least early on.
Speaker 1: You know, I became a decent midrange, but the ability
Speaker 1: to get to my spot and uh at the small
Speaker 1: forward position, I think that's really helped me early on.
Speaker 1: And were they weren't you see more of that now guys,
Speaker 1: you know everybody does that, but back then, you didn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of threes playing like that. As a rookie,
Speaker 1: made the All Star Game and won CO Rookie of
Speaker 1: the Year average twenty six and five. Um, after that
Speaker 1: first year, if you said you called your homies after
Speaker 1: the first and for the games where you surprised that
Speaker 1: actually what you did fresh out of college in the NBA. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I was surprised, and I was surprised at
Speaker 1: all the fans, Like I was like, because they kept
Speaker 1: trying to make me like the face and I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: like I still like, I'm I'm trying to We won
Speaker 1: twenty eight games, my friend, like you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I'm still got a lot to learn. But um, that
Speaker 1: first year was crazy, man, Like it was you know,
Speaker 1: you shoot, you got commercials endorsements. Um, they would try
Speaker 1: to call me the next Jordan's but I thought it
Speaker 1: was foolish. But I leveraged that and what I mean
Speaker 1: by that is I monitored. I didn't turn down the deals. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know, it was hard because we were losing
Speaker 1: and you go in college where every year you feel
Speaker 1: like you have a chance to win a championship, and
Speaker 1: now all of a sudden you're losing more games you
Speaker 1: then you you know, lost in a lifetime. So that
Speaker 1: that first year was kind of bitter sweet. Um. But
Speaker 1: I felt like Alan Houston with lindsay that we had
Speaker 1: a promise in future, and you know, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to get better the next year. What was your welcome
Speaker 1: to the nd game? Over? And obviously a lot of
Speaker 1: success here first year, but what was your kind of
Speaker 1: your welcome to the league moment? Was it a team?
Speaker 1: Was it a player? Was it to play? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: just think about the gates, man, like just you know,
Speaker 1: coming in and like establishing myself, being able to do
Speaker 1: what I wanted. I felt like it was easier than
Speaker 1: the college game. I think making an All Star game
Speaker 1: my first year like that was probably like like man,
Speaker 1: like I'm here, you know, But there wasn't like one
Speaker 1: signature play or moment or game or anything like that. Um,
Speaker 1: I think just at the gate, coming in and and
Speaker 1: and putting up work and having success. Um it's like
Speaker 1: a dream come true. You know I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 1: You got understand. I talked about it in the book,
Speaker 1: like I lacked self confidence, Like I didn't have great
Speaker 1: confidence in myself. And I also didn't want to stand
Speaker 1: out growing up. And I, um, I had to get
Speaker 1: comfortable stepping into greatness. I had to get comfortable with
Speaker 1: that kind of responsibility. And my last year, Duke, I
Speaker 1: think I really kind of got to that point, which
Speaker 1: helped me when I got to the league. But um,
Speaker 1: so all that attention like that wasn't something that I
Speaker 1: that I coveted, you know what I'm saying. And so
Speaker 1: it was a little bit you know, now you got money,
Speaker 1: you got fame, you're young, you got a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know. So it was it was a little it
Speaker 1: was a little wild that first year, and but you
Speaker 1: know it was it was fun though. I mean, I
Speaker 1: can't lie. You know, you recall your first game against it.
Speaker 1: So MJ was retired your rookie year, right he was.
Speaker 1: That was the year he missed. He came back through
Speaker 1: the end of the year, end of the year. So
Speaker 1: what was your first match up with him? Like, man,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to go at him and I played
Speaker 1: against him with the Dream Team, but I didn't really
Speaker 1: go against him him and I crossed him up. I remember,
Speaker 1: I was like geeked about that and we lost the game.
Speaker 1: But you know, to go against Jordan like that was
Speaker 1: that was. I'll tell this man, Jordan was It has
Speaker 1: always been good to me, like he always would, you know,
Speaker 1: we go out, we go eat, you know. He Um,
Speaker 1: I think because he lost his dad, and I k
Speaker 1: think he liked my dad, fan of my dad and
Speaker 1: so you know, I don't know if it was me
Speaker 1: or what, but he always and he talked trash about
Speaker 1: Duke Carolina and all that, but he was always was
Speaker 1: good to me. But um, yeah, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: I tried to go at you. I didn't guard him
Speaker 1: a lot. I'll tell you it was funny. So the
Speaker 1: summer after my rookie year, you you weren't at u
Speaker 1: c l A man, y'all, Chris Johnson, they ran ran
Speaker 1: l A after y'all won the championship. So I'm out
Speaker 1: in l A and I'm filming Living Sink and they
Speaker 1: created that bubble and I go over there to play
Speaker 1: against Jordan's and I played the first day and I'm
Speaker 1: giving him the business. I am killing like I'm not
Speaker 1: a shooter, but everything I'm shooting is going in. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm crossing him up. So we're on a lot. They
Speaker 1: build this bubble, He's got a court, and I'm going
Speaker 1: at Jordan and I'm giving it. He wants to guard me.
Speaker 1: I'm giving him the build. Man. In fact, it was
Speaker 1: I had the shoes on my my g H two's
Speaker 1: and he had this Jordan's tense but the pattern that
Speaker 1: we both have patent level and uh man, I'm killing
Speaker 1: them like I mean like like after I'm calling my
Speaker 1: boys afterwards, like man, I'm killing Jordan like he little
Speaker 1: like all this stuff. And so the next day I
Speaker 1: come over and I'm confident. Now you know, I'm man.
Speaker 1: He gave me a bit like it was like oh
Speaker 1: the next the next day and I couldn't get a
Speaker 1: shot all he was all that footwork and you know,
Speaker 1: he was just But that was the best runs, I
Speaker 1: mean not just in l A. Maybe the best runs
Speaker 1: in the country were in that bubble. And you had Reggie.
Speaker 1: You had Reggie Miller's one. Howard, you had a bunch
Speaker 1: of Dennis Robman, all the U c l a. Guys
Speaker 1: were there. Toby Bailey might have been the biggest celebrity
Speaker 1: in LA this summer. And but yeah, Jordan's that was
Speaker 1: that was a fun, fun summer right there. And had
Speaker 1: had my moment against him, Jay, I'm talking about I'm
Speaker 1: talking about giving them business like y'all. Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: you Monest too, so you you was really probably giving
Speaker 1: them that ship. But she's not gonna talk like that.
Speaker 1: You want to go to the Loanta Olympics. How was
Speaker 1: it traveling and being with those guys with the team
Speaker 1: Let's name that team because that's Barkley, Penny, Reggie Stockton,
Speaker 1: all those guys yet a lot of personnelity Shack Reggie
Speaker 1: g p Um Charles like it was. It was but
Speaker 1: the best part with the practices and we didn't do much.
Speaker 1: We just scrimmaged. So I got a chance to go
Speaker 1: against Scotty every day, and you know that was that
Speaker 1: was crazy, Like Scotty was great, but I got I
Speaker 1: got confid it in playing against Scott and to me
Speaker 1: he was the gold standard at that point. But it
Speaker 1: was crazy, man, like it was. I was there with
Speaker 1: Shock when he left to go to l A. And
Speaker 1: they had to the article in the center on Orlando.
Speaker 1: We were in Orlando practicing, and they basically had a
Speaker 1: surveyation should they pay Shack or not. I was on
Speaker 1: the bus for Shock and he was in the back
Speaker 1: and he was like, I can't believe that they don't
Speaker 1: want me. And I was like, man, go out west,
Speaker 1: go to l A. Man like, you know, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get that big out the east, you know. And uh.
Speaker 1: But I couldn't believe that they would let Shaq go
Speaker 1: because he was so dominant at the time, and they
Speaker 1: really voted not to pay him. I know they didn't
Speaker 1: pay him. What I'm saying there was there was the
Speaker 1: paper did a survey the magic pay Shock or not.
Speaker 1: It was supposed to be the first hundred million dollar
Speaker 1: deal or something like that or and Shock's big thing
Speaker 1: was Alonso got like a hundred and ten, and he
Speaker 1: was like, if Alonso is a BMW, I'm a Porsche.
Speaker 1: And so if he's getting a hundred ten, I should
Speaker 1: get a dred and twenty five. And so fans they
Speaker 1: have voted. I don't know the survey or whatever, but
Speaker 1: it was unanimous no and and so that was crazy.
Speaker 1: But just being with those guys, man, it was good.
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, we went out a couple of times.
Speaker 1: It was a little wild and you know, pre camera
Speaker 1: phones and pre camera so y'all were safe. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I look, I'm just saying that. Scotty I went out
Speaker 1: with him one night and they threw a party in Orlando.
Speaker 1: Now I didn't drink at this point. I didn't drink
Speaker 1: telling about my wife true story, but so I wasn't drinking,
Speaker 1: and so we went out. We went to Scotty's hammered.
Speaker 1: You know he's drinking. We go back to his, uh
Speaker 1: go back and play cards all night until about six
Speaker 1: seven at Boo ray to like six seven in the morning.
Speaker 1: We got practice at ten. I get to I'm the
Speaker 1: youngest guy in the team. I have nothing. Scotty is
Speaker 1: like this dude like running on. I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know how, but he and m J. Roll man,
Speaker 1: so you know, I had a lot to learn. But
Speaker 1: now it was great. It was We went a gold
Speaker 1: medal and play with those guys was was was a
Speaker 1: big thrill. What international players run of time? Um Oscar Schmidt.
Speaker 1: He was older at that time, but he was giving
Speaker 1: me the business. You know. He was tall, about six
Speaker 1: nine and could shoot it quick trigger, big dude, and
Speaker 1: so he could play. But you know, man, we dominated everybody.
Speaker 1: It was no true story. Did you play Andrew Gays? Yeah, Australia. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wasn't worried about him. He was he was older
Speaker 1: at that point. But in the Olympics, true story, nobody
Speaker 1: wanted to be the leading score because you got drug tests,
Speaker 1: and so the only person that got drug tested every
Speaker 1: game was Karl Malone. It was Karl Malone and whoever
Speaker 1: the leading score was. We figured it out after a
Speaker 1: couple of games. So at the end of the games,
Speaker 1: everybody's passing to each other because nobody wants to shoot,
Speaker 1: and it looks like we're being like real unselfish, but
Speaker 1: nobody wanted to score because it took, you know, another
Speaker 1: hour of drug testing and all that. So but it
Speaker 1: was crazy. It was crazy. I would have arged that too.
Speaker 1: How and where did you celebrate your gold Miller? You know,
Speaker 1: that's went to me and I started. That's when we
Speaker 1: kind of met before that. So after the gold medal,
Speaker 1: I got a suite at the bell Air for five weeks,
Speaker 1: and that's where we were for five weeks. She was
Speaker 1: living in l A. And five weeks before the season,
Speaker 1: now I was in l at the bell at Hotel
Speaker 1: telling yeah open, I had her over the books called
Speaker 1: game Yeah. Yeah. The gold Medal team or the Dream Team?
Speaker 1: Who winning? Yeah? I mean we had six guys from
Speaker 1: that original team. We didn't have m J. You practice.
Speaker 1: Did you practice with the Dream Team as a yeah,
Speaker 1: we be me Web Hurley, Penny Mash, Roddy Rodgers, Montross,
Speaker 1: Alan Houston. So we played in the first game in
Speaker 1: ninety two in LaToya. Alan hit about ten threes. Bobby
Speaker 1: was getting wherever he wanted. Penny and I were dunking
Speaker 1: everywhere in transition. Where was the beast? Like, where was
Speaker 1: this killing them dudes? Like to the point where Larry
Speaker 1: Bird was like, if that's what's coming in the league,
Speaker 1: I need to get out, damn. But then the next day,
Speaker 1: the next two days they smacked us. We had no
Speaker 1: But that to me was a was a great gauge
Speaker 1: to know that I could play at that level. But
Speaker 1: I like to you know, look, man, were competitives. Man,
Speaker 1: you always feel like you can win, man, like that.
Speaker 1: You know, that's the thing about sports man. You always
Speaker 1: feel we had shock. What were they gonna do with shock?
Speaker 1: Penny was like, right, people don't realize to appreciate how
Speaker 1: good you Penny and Shack alone and so we you know,
Speaker 1: we're Reggie Mitch. I mean we were, Yeah, definitely held on.
Speaker 1: Your run from two thousand was unprecedented. Five consecutive of
Speaker 1: all NBA selections eight and six over that span. Did
Speaker 1: you feel personally, and you just said, you're a competitive
Speaker 1: you felt like you were the best player in the
Speaker 1: league at that time. Every time I stepped on the floor,
Speaker 1: probably after like round nineties six, I felt like I
Speaker 1: was the best player. And I think, I don't think
Speaker 1: that's unusual. I know every time this guy stepped on
Speaker 1: the court, you felt like you were the best player.
Speaker 1: Even if I if I even if I knew I
Speaker 1: wasn't even to see it all on me. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like you have like to me, like I
Speaker 1: went against m J. Like, I'm thinking, you gotta guard me,
Speaker 1: and you have to have that mentality. You have to
Speaker 1: have it. And I think when you were top, when
Speaker 1: you just indly you gotta like even I mean, Matt,
Speaker 1: you didn't score thirty points a game. But then when
Speaker 1: you're getting out there, you compete. You gotta feel like,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna shut this guy down. I'm gonna bust
Speaker 1: is that like, you have to have that mentality, and
Speaker 1: so I I did, and when I got hurt and
Speaker 1: in those four years, I lost that and y'all never
Speaker 1: got a chance to really see that that player in person.
Speaker 1: But you go four years of her you know, I
Speaker 1: know we'll get into it. We get four years of injuries,
Speaker 1: you start to question yourself, your abilities, your body's ability
Speaker 1: to stay healthy. And instead of feeling like I'm the
Speaker 1: best player, I'm just I'm just happy to be out here,
Speaker 1: which is a beautiful thing to have that appreciation. But
Speaker 1: I lost that edge. I lost that like and physically
Speaker 1: I lost a whole lot as a result as well.
Speaker 1: So four years it just you know, you're like, I
Speaker 1: remember during that time, it was back maybe an oh four,
Speaker 1: I went. I was at Duke and coach came. It
Speaker 1: was the year I sat out. He was like, who
Speaker 1: the top five players in the league? And I was like,
Speaker 1: shag Kobe, I'm naming guys. He said, Okay, who who
Speaker 1: the next five? And I go, I go through the
Speaker 1: I give me the next tent, and so I started
Speaker 1: naming all these guys and he's like, you named twenty guys.
Speaker 1: You didn't name itself. And so I didn't quite at
Speaker 1: the time like understand. But like looking back at it,
Speaker 1: like I had, it was so demoralizing, like going through
Speaker 1: that that when I came back, it was like, let
Speaker 1: me just like get in where I could fit it.
Speaker 1: And like I said, I enjoyed it. I was grateful
Speaker 1: to be able to play. But I lost that that
Speaker 1: mentalent that middle side explained because like I said, it
Speaker 1: happened a while. I go on people like you really
Speaker 1: explain your injuries and how bad your ankle situation really got,
Speaker 1: because I don't think people understand the extent of your injury.
Speaker 1: And he came back still dunking on people barely. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a long story, and I get into it in
Speaker 1: the book, but um, you know, I I got hurt
Speaker 1: in Detroit and it was a comedy of errors, like
Speaker 1: it was just it was mismanaged, the whole thing, and
Speaker 1: and you know I got hurt. Um we didn't diagnose
Speaker 1: it correctly, I think, And um, it was probably a
Speaker 1: hairline fracture, got worse and worse until I broke it,
Speaker 1: and then when I went to Orlando. So that was
Speaker 1: the season before Orlando, correct, because my last year in
Speaker 1: Detroit had surgery. But the surgery shouldn't have been It
Speaker 1: wasn't a big deal, like every team was still coming
Speaker 1: after me. I was healing when I got to Orlando.
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be out to December January, but
Speaker 1: they brought me back in September, and so there was
Speaker 1: some miscommunication. I ended up getting what's called a non union.
Speaker 1: So the best way to explain that is if if
Speaker 1: these two fingers are are one bone and they a
Speaker 1: doctors put the bones back together, they put plates in
Speaker 1: there to hold it to let it heal. And what
Speaker 1: happened with me, they healed, but they healed his two
Speaker 1: separate bones. That's called a non union. That becomes a problem.
Speaker 1: That took three years to heal, so in three more surgeries,
Speaker 1: and so if we had just followed the protocol that
Speaker 1: was established, then maybe that would have been a void.
Speaker 1: I can't say that with absolute accuracy, but so that's
Speaker 1: kind of what happened. Now. The fourth surgery in total
Speaker 1: I got septic. I thought I almost died. I had
Speaker 1: a hole in my ankle from a staff infection. You've
Speaker 1: seen the ankles nasty. The doctor said if the if
Speaker 1: the skin the free flap surgery. They took skin from
Speaker 1: my arm and it sort of used it as a
Speaker 1: patch over my ankle. If it didn't take, they would
Speaker 1: have had to amputate the leg and so that the
Speaker 1: ankle of the leg. Yeah, like the lower part of
Speaker 1: the leg. And so we didn't have social media, we
Speaker 1: didn't have our the ability not to tell what was
Speaker 1: going on. So I think a lot of people didn't
Speaker 1: know it was right, how serious it was. And uh
Speaker 1: so I go, I go through all of that in
Speaker 1: the book. It was four or five years of just craziness.
Speaker 1: But so that's why you lose that, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. You just like, man, I almost died, Like
Speaker 1: at one point I didn't want to come back. But
Speaker 1: you're just like, man, I'm just I'm just happy to
Speaker 1: you to cut you out. What age are you at
Speaker 1: that time? Two thousand, I'm twenty seven prime? And you
Speaker 1: know what's crazy? Man? Like writing this book, like going
Speaker 1: through it all. And I talked to you earlier about
Speaker 1: like you gotta stay in the moment, like you can't.
Speaker 1: I didn't deal with with all of the baggage mentally, emotionally.
Speaker 1: I was just trying to fight to keep playing, getting
Speaker 1: into the hall of fame. In that moment, you you reflect,
Speaker 1: you reflect writing your story. I dealt with it then. Also, yeah,
Speaker 1: like a lot of that, like you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of that's heavy. It was. It was dark, even the
Speaker 1: hall of fame. The hall of fame should be like
Speaker 1: the you know, the icing on the cake, the ultimate
Speaker 1: regardless of what happened or didn't happen, it validates you.
Speaker 1: And I was mad. I was bitter because I'm thinking
Speaker 1: you only got six years. Yea, y'all didn't get I
Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to see this all the way through,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't hear. I didn't deal with that
Speaker 1: until after my career because you I'm fighting, man, I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to stay on the court. You can't. You're
Speaker 1: not gonna really look back at the good and the
Speaker 1: bad while you in the midst off. I say this
Speaker 1: because you are a big brother, Like you're the biggest
Speaker 1: what if ever, like we all looked like you were
Speaker 1: the next prototype you. They were fitting you to be
Speaker 1: the next MJ because that's how talented you were, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And it's just like to hear
Speaker 1: you kind of explain your story on what you went
Speaker 1: through like you were robbed, We were robbed, like you
Speaker 1: were going where no one has really been for your size,
Speaker 1: your position, in what you brought to the game. So
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know, Like obviously for cool and
Speaker 1: I've known you for years, you might big brother, but
Speaker 1: we've never got that in depth. Like I couldn't imagine,
Speaker 1: like you said, you finally unloaded that baggage twenty plus
Speaker 1: years later, because like you were on pace to be
Speaker 1: one of the if not you know what, who knows,
Speaker 1: one of the greatest players of all time, and to
Speaker 1: have injury derailed that, Like it's just I I always
Speaker 1: That's why I'm definitely gonna read this. But just as
Speaker 1: the basketball site, the mental side had to be not
Speaker 1: only on the court, but off the court in your
Speaker 1: personal life and all it just weiited on you. It did,
Speaker 1: it did, And you know, everybody's got something and everybody
Speaker 1: goes through something. And sometimes I don't want to equate
Speaker 1: this because there's people who have far more traumatic things
Speaker 1: in their life. But sometimes we we suppressed that. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you suppress it to survive and uh, but ultimately you
Speaker 1: get through it by acknowledging it and dealing with it.
Speaker 1: And so I I never unpacked it, and I didn't realize.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize how much it impacted me. And like
Speaker 1: I didn't think that, like because I used to say
Speaker 1: to myself, like coming back from the injury, playing nine
Speaker 1: more years, that's far greater than anything I did, because
Speaker 1: I know what I went through, But I don't think
Speaker 1: I really unpacked, like like how how how hard that
Speaker 1: was for me and how difficult that was to go
Speaker 1: through that, and you know, genetics, hard work, whatever, But
Speaker 1: like I had a chance. You know, you have a chance.
Speaker 1: They leave a legacy and and and I think I did.
Speaker 1: I mean I had a great career, but I had
Speaker 1: a chance to be really really special. And it's interesting, man,
Speaker 1: Like I'm being honest here, Like when the NBA SEV
Speaker 1: came out, Yes, Tea Mac you know the events, I mean,
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of Dwight come on, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know, so I kind of like and maybe this
Speaker 1: is a way to like protect myself but I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I get it. I got hurt. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't have I didn't see it. All the way
Speaker 1: through the Hall of Fame is college and NBA. So
Speaker 1: my college helped get me in. So my body of
Speaker 1: work wasn't enough. So I kind of justified it. But
Speaker 1: just tell I'm being honest. So I'm at the All
Speaker 1: Star Game in Cleveland and I'm working that night, I'm
Speaker 1: working the pregame, that the post game and all that
Speaker 1: goes on, and it hit me then, and that was
Speaker 1: I got. I was emotional, and it was I was surprised.
Speaker 1: I was emotional. You know, you're trying to protect you're
Speaker 1: not trying to show it, but you're feeling like, like, funk,
Speaker 1: I should be out there. And I remember twenty five
Speaker 1: years ago I was in that building for the fifties
Speaker 1: and it was All Star weekend and I said, you
Speaker 1: know what, if they ever do this again, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be on the next team. And when I was there,
Speaker 1: and no disrespect to these guys because they do serving
Speaker 1: to be on it, I'm fans. It is their brothers
Speaker 1: of mine. I love him to death. But when I
Speaker 1: saw people like, you know, guys from my era, like
Speaker 1: Ray and Reggie and I used to be like, man,
Speaker 1: I used to get him the business, like that's what
Speaker 1: I was thinking, and so I had, you know, and
Speaker 1: and they're deserving. So I'm not trying to so that
Speaker 1: it's like it hit me and so like there's still
Speaker 1: baggage like this still you know I'm saying it so
Speaker 1: but it kind of triggered me a little bit. But
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Look, I mean, you're better
Speaker 1: than Danny Shades. Bro. I'm sorry man when you said,
Speaker 1: excuse me, Dolf Shades. You're better than Dolf Shades. I
Speaker 1: want to seem sorry I was nicer than Dolf Shades. Look,
Speaker 1: you got given respect for his time. But I want
Speaker 1: to say something about y'all man, because I know you're
Speaker 1: interviewing me. But I played. First of all, I remember, Matt,
Speaker 1: I watched you play during the lockout and you see
Speaker 1: I like, and I remember hearing you are a football player.
Speaker 1: And then fast forward, I think it was oh seven,
Speaker 1: y'all had y'all run and Golden State and I'm like,
Speaker 1: who is this light skinned crazy mother ran across the
Speaker 1: court and Devin somebody and I was like, Yo, this dude,
Speaker 1: it's crazy, Like you know what I'm saying. Like, but
Speaker 1: then I played with you and and and people get
Speaker 1: to see that, you know, different sides of you guys now.
Speaker 1: But the thing that showed me a lot about you
Speaker 1: was when our teammate Barbosa and his mother passed and
Speaker 1: your mom had unfortunately from can And I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to bring it up, but like, and I know that
Speaker 1: was hard for you, but to see you there for
Speaker 1: him and he's crying, he's going through it, and like
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to be supportive because I hadn't
Speaker 1: really gone through it. But I was like, yo, this
Speaker 1: dude like mad, like all that other stuff and all
Speaker 1: the stuff that you've gone through. I played with you
Speaker 1: with the Clippers. You come into the aid of a teammate,
Speaker 1: all your stuff, all your smoke. It was defense defending
Speaker 1: a teammate. And in this, dude right here, the same
Speaker 1: thing in the palace. You come into the aid coming
Speaker 1: to the aid of a teammate. Everybody I didn't play
Speaker 1: with with you stacked, but everybody that's played with you
Speaker 1: that I know thinks the world of you. And so
Speaker 1: I was like, like, as teammates and guys like I
Speaker 1: could be in the trenches with these two rats. I
Speaker 1: was with mad Um. I didn't you know I played one.
Speaker 1: We was a little messed up in Phoenix, but in
Speaker 1: l A, I didn't play. I watched. Can you imagine that?
Speaker 1: That real quick and the phoeniship. They fired Terry Porter
Speaker 1: at All Star Break that was our cover. First of all,
Speaker 1: I'm going, I'm so I'm going to come out of that.
Speaker 1: We believe season. I'm Nelly mad I don't sign a
Speaker 1: three year deal, so he gets rid of me. I'm
Speaker 1: going in there and jeez there and I'm telling I
Speaker 1: tell them, remember yo, Honor, You're my favorite plan. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I made him feel old at the time,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to tell him that during the game
Speaker 1: Grant Hill, first of all, first of all, it was
Speaker 1: crazy and they fired him, and yeah, we had too
Speaker 1: much town, man. That was that. We had so much.
Speaker 1: We should have been remember Sta Cock Superhero. We had.
Speaker 1: We had some town. But the crazy thing was, um,
Speaker 1: we just do right here. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: remember this, but we played. We played in Orlando, and
Speaker 1: I think after the whole thing in the past, that
Speaker 1: was old four oh five and then oh six, I
Speaker 1: got I had a sports hernius. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know if we played against each other until oh six
Speaker 1: o seven and we're in Orlando and I'm guarding him
Speaker 1: and we're writing on the sidelines and somebody yell something
Speaker 1: slick out to you about you know too. I turned
Speaker 1: around and cursed him out. Yeah you remember that. Remember
Speaker 1: that I cursed him out. And I didn't know how.
Speaker 1: I didn't. We didn't know each other. But because I'm
Speaker 1: I got a garden this dude, and I don't need
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, But like, but I, I
Speaker 1: and so and then we played the next year, I
Speaker 1: think it on the stage and uh man, y'all ran
Speaker 1: up and down the court like that year. I was like,
Speaker 1: I mean it was fun, but like I always said,
Speaker 1: he was top three or four guys I had to go.
Speaker 1: I could never figure him out. I couldn't figure jack out. No,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't. But I could not. We had a
Speaker 1: different game. You could shoot it, you played with it.
Speaker 1: You couldn't speed you up. You shot it, you know,
Speaker 1: behind your head. And I was I could not. I
Speaker 1: could guard. I had a you know, you couldn't guard guys.
Speaker 1: But you had a playbook for like, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: you know, Lebron, I'm gonna try to do this or Mellow,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that. I couldn't do anything with Kobe
Speaker 1: like I mean, I couldn't know. I'm out there with
Speaker 1: one leg and they got me out here at thirty
Speaker 1: eight trying to guard Kobe. I'm looking at Matt like
Speaker 1: you was getting after it though. I mean, but but
Speaker 1: but I couldn't. It was I couldn't figure you out. Man,
Speaker 1: I pierce like I could. I had a game plan
Speaker 1: for and I actually did well against these guys. But
Speaker 1: I people don't appreciate how good you were. I think
Speaker 1: those that no, No, I've always told you that. I
Speaker 1: want to backtrack a little bit. So you go to Orlando.
Speaker 1: This is you t mac and a possibility of getting
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan at the time walk us through this. So
Speaker 1: you're going through injury and and trying to get back
Speaker 1: on the court. You're teaming up with a young team
Speaker 1: mac Uh and then there's whispers or rumors that you
Speaker 1: could possibly get Tim. So what happened was Tim and
Speaker 1: I went We had the same major, so we went
Speaker 1: down together and Tim I think was more in at
Speaker 1: the time than I was. I was still you know,
Speaker 1: I had New York, I had a couple of other
Speaker 1: teams I was looking at, but Tim wanted to be
Speaker 1: in Orlando if he were to leave. And so we
Speaker 1: were down there and they were hosting us, and and
Speaker 1: they had just had a pretty good season Doc Rivers
Speaker 1: first year coach, and they were I think they were
Speaker 1: five hundred and so while we were there, like everything
Speaker 1: was going well, like it just felt like, yo, this this,
Speaker 1: this could happen. And I know it's hard for people
Speaker 1: now to think of Tim Duncan anywhere else. He was
Speaker 1: after his thirty I think he won a championship in
Speaker 1: San Antonio. And I'm telling you, man, I remember it
Speaker 1: like it was yesterday. We're at dinner and Tim's girlfriend
Speaker 1: asked Doc a question, can wives and girlfriends travel on
Speaker 1: the team playing? And you got to stand back then
Speaker 1: that that didn't happen and what happens now, But back
Speaker 1: then it didn't happen. And so Doc said, no, it's
Speaker 1: a business trip. That doesn't happen. I don't allow that now.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that San Antonio had started doing that,
Speaker 1: you know, And so that's why, because I'm thinking that's
Speaker 1: a bold question, Like I'm like, why is she asking
Speaker 1: that question? So but I didn't pay much attention to it.
Speaker 1: So we got back to the hotel that night, and
Speaker 1: it was funny because to me and I, we we're
Speaker 1: in the hotel almost like the hotel room was bugged,
Speaker 1: so we're whispering to each other, like you know, and
Speaker 1: she's like, he ain't coming, so what do you mean
Speaker 1: She's like when she asked that question, her old body
Speaker 1: language changed with that response, and I was like, na, no, no, whatever.
Speaker 1: So anyway, we get back, we get back to Detroit's
Speaker 1: funny story. So it was too much. I'm on crutches.
Speaker 1: So I ended up saying, you know what, have the
Speaker 1: teams come visit me in Detroit? So New York comes
Speaker 1: in and they bring they bring Star Jones, they bring
Speaker 1: like all these actors and actresses in. They got this
Speaker 1: tape they play, They got like Seinfeld and Brookshields and
Speaker 1: all these people like come. You know, you think you
Speaker 1: look at Orlando's night when see where do you come
Speaker 1: to New York? Like? And I always wanted to play
Speaker 1: in New York. So Leon, you know, the actor Leon
Speaker 1: so I asked him about this. So he's on the video.
Speaker 1: He's like, gee, you think the women are nice in Detroit,
Speaker 1: wait till you come to New York. And so to
Speaker 1: me it was like, oh, hell no. And so to
Speaker 1: this day we talked, She's like, man, you think the
Speaker 1: New York would have watched the tape and so anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, New York didn't happen, but um and everybody
Speaker 1: and I was probably going to Orlando. But so then
Speaker 1: T Mac like there was but there was a chance.
Speaker 1: As Tim was trying to figure it out, T Mac,
Speaker 1: you know, he was from down there, and so it
Speaker 1: just it was coming together, like all three of us
Speaker 1: might play together. And I didn't know how good T.
Speaker 1: Mac was at that time, and so I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't know until they got to Orland. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this guy right here is incredible. So
Speaker 1: not being able to be healthy to play with Mac,
Speaker 1: it's something that we talked, He and I talked about
Speaker 1: all the time, just like wishing that we could have
Speaker 1: could have could have done a team Mac and g
Speaker 1: despite all the injuries. You know how men and Matt
Speaker 1: feel about you. A lot of people, a lot of
Speaker 1: people feel the same way about you. And even though
Speaker 1: the injury is you still had a Kobe s career.
Speaker 1: In our minds, the wait at you, how when you
Speaker 1: go back and look when you go back and look
Speaker 1: at all that, what's your thoughts? Like? How how greatful
Speaker 1: are you are you? You know, to make it through
Speaker 1: all that, the injury and still be able to come
Speaker 1: back and finish on a good note. Yeah, that was special.
Speaker 1: I mean it was a good thing. You know. On
Speaker 1: one hand, I didn't appreciate how good I was, and
Speaker 1: that sounds arrogant, but I didn't appreciate how good I
Speaker 1: was in Detroit because we weren't winning. And so the
Speaker 1: one thing I learned from this process of writing a
Speaker 1: book is when we have success, we got to celebrate that.
Speaker 1: There's a story. I um, two thousand All Star Game,
Speaker 1: so nine we had a lockout, so we didn't have
Speaker 1: an All Star Game two thousand in San Francisco. We're there,
Speaker 1: we play or I guess in Oakland the Old Oracle Arena.
Speaker 1: It's such a such a stupid story. So I'm thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: Jordan's gone because in the All Star Game with Joey,
Speaker 1: we had to defer to him you know what I I mean,
Speaker 1: you just know what said it, but you just felt
Speaker 1: like we gotta get the especially in ninety eight where
Speaker 1: Kobe was there, like they're going we had to like
Speaker 1: which I got issues with the whole um the documentary.
Speaker 1: It was a great documentary, but it made it seem
Speaker 1: like I was scared, like we were on the bench
Speaker 1: and what happened was in that game. Penny was hurt
Speaker 1: that year. He sat out the whole year, came back
Speaker 1: for two games, played in the All Star Game. He
Speaker 1: had GP Gardener. It was it was Kobe and m J.
Speaker 1: And then people forget Garnette was a three early in
Speaker 1: his career, so Gardnette and I matched up. So Penny
Speaker 1: didn't want to handle the ball because he's not healthy
Speaker 1: and he's got to go against GP. So I'm bringing
Speaker 1: the ball out. I was point forward, so I'm always
Speaker 1: back in transition. We're farting around. It's three on one.
Speaker 1: GP got Kobe and guard that he's throwing lives. I'm back,
Speaker 1: so I'm not trying to be in the frame on
Speaker 1: these alleues in the time. I don't like 'all, y'all
Speaker 1: gotta get back because I'm a goot hear the do
Speaker 1: he's young boys, you know, And so the way it looked,
Speaker 1: it looked like I was like scared of and I
Speaker 1: had great respect for Kobe, but I wasn't. I wasn't
Speaker 1: scared of him then, you know, so two thousand All Star,
Speaker 1: so you know, the trainers always would carry her. I
Speaker 1: had contacts then, so my trainer, Mike, after an hour
Speaker 1: in Detroit, would always keep contacts, so if I ran out,
Speaker 1: I would just go get something from him. So I
Speaker 1: only had one pair of contacts. In the day of
Speaker 1: the game, I one contact ripped and so I'm like,
Speaker 1: do I play with no contacts? I put one in
Speaker 1: and now I'm all screwed up. During the game, I
Speaker 1: threw a live to events. I promise you I threw
Speaker 1: it over the backboard even like it's so you know,
Speaker 1: and I remember something I told Hip England, who's you know,
Speaker 1: you know Chip from San Antonio. I told Chip, I saw, man,
Speaker 1: it's always next year, like I'll wear you know next year.
Speaker 1: And so next year didn't happen. And and so I
Speaker 1: say all that to say that you gotta celebrate when
Speaker 1: we have success and life's not guaranteed, and we got
Speaker 1: to celebrate each other and celebrate yourself. I didn't do
Speaker 1: that when I was in Detroit because to me, I
Speaker 1: was chasing Isaiah until we won. I didn't give myself
Speaker 1: permission to celebrate. And so being able to go back
Speaker 1: now and like, you know what I actually was all
Speaker 1: right because I don't. Here's the thing, you guys, remember
Speaker 1: that I remember trying to guard Kobe at thirty eight
Speaker 1: with a bad wheel. I remember like standing in the
Speaker 1: corner waiting for the ball to come to me. Like
Speaker 1: that's what I remember. I don't. I didn't remember those
Speaker 1: those those those years. And so the exercise of not
Speaker 1: just the dark but also the light, the good, the positive,
Speaker 1: and and just appreciating that. As you said, a lot
Speaker 1: of people remember them full speed crossovers, trust me, coming
Speaker 1: at you the crossover pip I mean when he got
Speaker 1: Pippo and banged on it. Pepper was too light, man,
Speaker 1: he was like to fifteen, I could just right. For
Speaker 1: all you young people, google him, n google him. What
Speaker 1: was the playoff experience like with Steve Nash? That was
Speaker 1: the Western Finals round? Yeah, you played was in you
Speaker 1: in Orlando? We had a good year. You know, it
Speaker 1: was weird because we had as great as Shock was
Speaker 1: and as great as Steve where they didn't really mix.
Speaker 1: And so when Shaq left and Amori was healthy, and
Speaker 1: then Alvin Gentry was coaching us, we we had a
Speaker 1: really good season. We were third seed, and um we
Speaker 1: beat Portland, beat San Antonio, and then we faced that
Speaker 1: l A. They got us the first two games in
Speaker 1: l A. We beat him the first the next two
Speaker 1: games and the game five, man like, we're right there
Speaker 1: on the roads. J Rich banks in the read to
Speaker 1: tie it. In overtime, Kobe gets a ball three pointer
Speaker 1: the one time he missed. What time he missed? A
Speaker 1: shoutow me like in that situation. Uh, he air balled.
Speaker 1: I'm writing this like I'm right there in his face.
Speaker 1: He airballs, and but metal World Peace gets to rebound.
Speaker 1: Ja Rich didn't box him out. He tipping and he
Speaker 1: they win game five, and I don't know if emotionally
Speaker 1: we recovered. And then Kobe in game six, I mean,
Speaker 1: he started, dude, and so here's the thing bad. So
Speaker 1: he you know, he's doing he's doing this and he
Speaker 1: oldways look with Kobe like like with Lebron, like when
Speaker 1: I got it Lebron. Back then, my attitude was I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna crash the offensive class and we shoot. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna find him. I'm not gonna let him get out
Speaker 1: in the open full head of steam. So I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna let him turn the corner and go right and
Speaker 1: get to the rim. I'm gonna make him make contested
Speaker 1: jump shots. And I'm not gonna foul if he posts
Speaker 1: me up. Don't help because he beat you with his
Speaker 1: passing as much as so, like you know, he had
Speaker 1: a game play and I actually did. Okay, I mean
Speaker 1: Lebron would have moments, but like you know, I didn't
Speaker 1: have a strategy for like I I didn't know what
Speaker 1: to do, and so sometimes man like I would just
Speaker 1: he go up the shot, I'll just hit his arm, like,
Speaker 1: just hit his arm and just like you know. And
Speaker 1: the problem too is I couldn't go back at him
Speaker 1: because that my role. You know in Phoenix, Nash had
Speaker 1: the ball in his hand. So I'm stuck in the
Speaker 1: corner and I'm not you know, I'm not a spot
Speaker 1: up shooter. Um, so he was hard to defend. But
Speaker 1: in that moment, man, like a couple of times I
Speaker 1: guess right like I'm like, like he's gonna go right,
Speaker 1: he's gonna shot fake. I'm not. You know, I know
Speaker 1: what he's gonna do. And I'm like, and you know,
Speaker 1: you know how hard it is saying this when you're
Speaker 1: squirre it off against him. You're saying that in your
Speaker 1: head as yours. You knew. I knew he wanted to
Speaker 1: go right, and I knew he had a great ball fake,
Speaker 1: and I've seen him do it before. And so he
Speaker 1: one shot right front of our bench. We tapped Alvin
Speaker 1: on them, and so he hit a touchhot on me
Speaker 1: before that, and I tried to deny him the ball,
Speaker 1: but he gets it. He goes right. I go with him.
Speaker 1: He shot face. I don't go for it. I actually
Speaker 1: get closer into him. I go up when he goes up.
Speaker 1: You know how hard it is to do with shot
Speaker 1: fake reload from three. And I couldn't be any closer
Speaker 1: to him without found him. Man, this dude, Like I
Speaker 1: was like, I mean, I was actually proud of the
Speaker 1: defense I played, like I'm thinking, I couldn't have done
Speaker 1: anything other than just prevent him fro getting the ball.
Speaker 1: But he was the best player I played against. And
Speaker 1: and I say this respectfully with George, I didn't guard
Speaker 1: Jordan's and I matched up. But the best player that
Speaker 1: I played against hands down with Kobe. And one of
Speaker 1: my regrets, it's in the book and oh seven, When
Speaker 1: I left Orlando, Phil Jackson called me three No what
Speaker 1: that was? That was in Detroit true that I don't
Speaker 1: know how true that was. I've heard that, but I
Speaker 1: don't know how true that was. But when I left Orlando,
Speaker 1: Phil call three times. I didn't call him back, and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, it's it's over in l A. Kobe,
Speaker 1: you know, he's talking about buying them, and you know
Speaker 1: they you know, they're imploding in the playoffs and all
Speaker 1: I got. I just thought the run was over in
Speaker 1: l A. And I end up going to Phoenix in
Speaker 1: part to stay healthy. But I think Phil would have
Speaker 1: played me more more suited for my game. He liked
Speaker 1: tall guys that could handle, and I think he wanted
Speaker 1: me to come in and kind of be a primary
Speaker 1: ball handler or whatever. Me sitting in the corner was
Speaker 1: not my game, you know what I'm saying. I mean,
Speaker 1: I played it, I did my role, but like that
Speaker 1: wasn't who I was. And so I think now, like
Speaker 1: man if I had just that would have been interesting.
Speaker 1: We were number one in the West. But then they
Speaker 1: traded for Gasol and then later that that season and
Speaker 1: that was a game changer for Um for the Lakers.
Speaker 1: And then you know, you went on and had a
Speaker 1: great run, played with some some great teammates. Anyone, who's
Speaker 1: your favorite teammate during your career? Damn Man, nineteen years Man,
Speaker 1: that's that's run. I think in Detroit, Lindsay Allen, those
Speaker 1: are my guys. We came in together, you know, and
Speaker 1: in Orlando was tough because I didn't play a whole
Speaker 1: lot in Orlando, Jamir Um good people. You know. Actually
Speaker 1: it's crazy. You know, you know who bonded who? And
Speaker 1: I bonded a lot because we were rehabbing all the
Speaker 1: damn time was Pat Garrity. We like, we were hurt
Speaker 1: two years, so we spent a lot of time together.
Speaker 1: You know, I enjoyed play. I mean, we didn't hang out.
Speaker 1: We didn't you know, I didn't partake, but I enjoyed
Speaker 1: bad Man like mad I'm telling you, like, just in
Speaker 1: terms of teammates doing whatever is needed, the ultimate teammates,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like people don't get a
Speaker 1: leve credit for that. I'll give you enough credit for that,
Speaker 1: but like you should have started in that like with
Speaker 1: the Clippers that year, you know, but he came off
Speaker 1: the bench. You never never made him. I remember seeing
Speaker 1: I remember seeing you at the facility, like you didn't
Speaker 1: have I don't think you you had. It was like
Speaker 1: late too, might have been like August September and you
Speaker 1: were unsure where you're gonna sign and you weren't there
Speaker 1: just playing pickup ball every day. And then you playing
Speaker 1: so well they brought you in. But like just like
Speaker 1: whatever's needed, you know what I'm saying, didn't complain, just
Speaker 1: did what he had to do. If something popped off.
Speaker 1: He was always in it, like he was there for
Speaker 1: your teammate, like and so. But there's so many, man,
Speaker 1: you know, Nash was fun to play with. Barbosa was
Speaker 1: a good guy. Those finished years were fun. Um. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I had a favorite, but you know,
Speaker 1: Shock was fun. Shack was crazy. Remember the Shock and
Speaker 1: lou Armington back and forth. Remember when Shaq took his
Speaker 1: mouthpiece and put in his tights during shoot around. I
Speaker 1: was just talking with Shaq about that last night, so
Speaker 1: we talked about it on the show. Is the craziest man. Hey, man, Shack.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many stories mad people. He remember
Speaker 1: writing on loose bike button naked. I'm an out Shack
Speaker 1: right here. But I remember one time we it's so
Speaker 1: bad man. One time, man Shack so bad man. I
Speaker 1: don't even I can't repeat that bad Come on, you
Speaker 1: already started, man. We know We're in the showers after
Speaker 1: practice and he goes to Jay Rich, Ja, Rich, you
Speaker 1: got a fat ass man. I'm like, I'm like, how
Speaker 1: do you come back? How do I What did Jay
Speaker 1: Risch do? Man? You know what I'm saying. Shack was
Speaker 1: just he was funny, he was nasty, crazy kid. He uh,
Speaker 1: and we had put Terry Porter man he had Remember
Speaker 1: we used to say that Bill Carwriter average what he
Speaker 1: used to break his stats. So Terry Porter. We're in
Speaker 1: a film session and uh, we're watching film in the
Speaker 1: film room and he stopped film say Shock, like, don't
Speaker 1: you think you could come over from the weak side
Speaker 1: and maybe blocked the shot right here? And Shock would
Speaker 1: be like, TP, I'm top five all time in the
Speaker 1: NBA shot blocks. I think I know when I can
Speaker 1: block a shot, like like just like the disrespect, the craziness,
Speaker 1: that's so calm. About a couple of times he showed
Speaker 1: up late. It's bad too, but he showed up late
Speaker 1: for prop and nobody he was. It's just shot. It
Speaker 1: was shot. He shot late, and like coach, I'm sorry, man.
Speaker 1: The passport truck tipped over on fifty one. Man. They
Speaker 1: were Mexicans everywhere. That's why I'm late to like he
Speaker 1: was just like he was, man, it was it was
Speaker 1: constant human man. And and uh he just kept it light.
Speaker 1: He was. It was crazy. We didn't make the playoffs,
Speaker 1: but you know he was in the time. I can't
Speaker 1: believe I told our stories, man, every day, every day
Speaker 1: something Bill Carry used to coach the bigs. Bill, I
Speaker 1: average so and so and so and so and so
Speaker 1: ago against you in this game. And my career number
Speaker 1: from high school to college and the pros even break
Speaker 1: all the ship. I'm seventy percent lifetime from the field.
Speaker 1: Give me the damn ball middle state high school. I
Speaker 1: can't in the car, right, I have a thirty in
Speaker 1: ten against him, Like he just just unbelievable. He was unbelievable,
Speaker 1: just like he shot Mumble under his breath was fast
Speaker 1: forward co owner with the Hawks. How did you happen
Speaker 1: to land that spot. Congratulations. By the way, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: When we were in l A. I wasn't playing. I
Speaker 1: was hurt. Um. Matter of fact, it was that December
Speaker 1: when you guys, when we were undefeated. We had a
Speaker 1: great month I had. I figured I was in l A.
Speaker 1: My family was a Fenish, so once a month I
Speaker 1: would have dinner with this duke Alum, a guy named
Speaker 1: Bruce carsh And Bruce actually is one of the partners
Speaker 1: with the Warriors, and uh, he's a d grad. So
Speaker 1: we were talking about the Clippers and I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I think they might they might be in play. Um,
Speaker 1: they may. I'm here and they may have to sell
Speaker 1: the team for state tax reasons. So we kind of
Speaker 1: concocted this whole, this this plan that we knew Adam
Speaker 1: was going to be commissioner the next year. All three
Speaker 1: of us do grads. Let's meet with Adam and see
Speaker 1: if we can get in through the you know, maybe
Speaker 1: buy a piece of the team with the chance to
Speaker 1: buy it all later down the road. And then the
Speaker 1: next year everything employes. And so Bruce brought in a guy,
Speaker 1: Tony Wrestler because he knew now it was going to
Speaker 1: be an open auction when the team was for sale,
Speaker 1: and uh, we've been at one point two billion dollars.
Speaker 1: And funny story, So I'm in New York with Bruce
Speaker 1: carsh Tony's in l a roll on speaker phone and
Speaker 1: we're on the phone. They're gonna get mad, and I
Speaker 1: told the story. We're on the phone and we're like, okay,
Speaker 1: one point two billion is gonna be our deal. That's
Speaker 1: something that's for the Clippers. That's to buy the Clippers,
Speaker 1: which we were outbid by eight hundred millions Steve Bomber.
Speaker 1: But we're on the phone, they're like all right. So
Speaker 1: Tony says, I'll put it in half a billion, and
Speaker 1: then Bruce says, I'll put in half a billion, and
Speaker 1: then they look at me. So I swear I said
Speaker 1: I got five on it, like you know, just you know,
Speaker 1: I was being funny, and uh but I told him
Speaker 1: my amount and they just wanted to know that I
Speaker 1: and I was gonna put something in and you have
Speaker 1: to put something in. So but that didn't work. Um,
Speaker 1: the Hawks came up right after similar circumstances, some racial overtones,
Speaker 1: some emails, so on and so forth. And I ended
Speaker 1: up getting Tony and convinced him on Atlanta. You know,
Speaker 1: I think the perception of Atlanta historically the franchise was just, yeah,
Speaker 1: it just wasn't good. You played there, so it was,
Speaker 1: and so I felt like for me, my selling point was,
Speaker 1: we got a chance to coming in that value. You
Speaker 1: got a great city, international airport, quality of life, guys
Speaker 1: like to be in Atlanta. Cost of living is low.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. All of that, we got
Speaker 1: a chance to come in and change that narrative and
Speaker 1: build an emotional connection with the franchise. If you're from
Speaker 1: Boston and you're a basketball fan, there's a nine chance
Speaker 1: your Celtics fan. But if you're from Atlanta you might
Speaker 1: be a Bulls fan. You might be It's so transient.
Speaker 1: People aren't really from there. So you know, we came
Speaker 1: in and you know, we do the arena practice facility,
Speaker 1: you know, try to create an atmosphere, try to understand Atlanta,
Speaker 1: embrace what Atlanta is. The previous ownership group I thought
Speaker 1: it was too too much diversity to black, and so
Speaker 1: we've tried to embrace who we are. I love when
Speaker 1: you go to a game in Atlanta, You've got people
Speaker 1: from all walks of life, you know, different political different ethnicities,
Speaker 1: different gender orientation, all their supporting the team. But we're
Speaker 1: building that, you know, we're we're trying to build it.
Speaker 1: And Trey Young having a young star, Uh it's helpful,
Speaker 1: but um, but yeah, so we're changing that. We we
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've been to a game in Atlanta,
Speaker 1: I know, I know you have. It's a party man
Speaker 1: like man, it's it's a party of our game. We
Speaker 1: got concerts. We got to change as a partner with
Speaker 1: the G League team. The food is unbelievable. The food
Speaker 1: we got sweet sweet, we got amenities. Were trying to
Speaker 1: create an environment there. Barbershop we gotta kill the Mike
Speaker 1: got a barbershop that it's dead space that you could
Speaker 1: not sell and so we said, let's make it a barbershop.
Speaker 1: We got a DJ and then it's a whole energy
Speaker 1: in their whole vibe. And so just embracing Atlanta. We
Speaker 1: try to reflect Atlanta and all that we do. And
Speaker 1: we got a lot more work to do, but excited
Speaker 1: about the progress we've made. Man, coming down the home
Speaker 1: stretch post career, you've been very successful. What are some
Speaker 1: other thing you're into outside of ownership of that Hawks.
Speaker 1: I got a lot on my plate, man, maybe a
Speaker 1: little too much. But I'm on the board of Campbell Sup.
Speaker 1: So we you know, in our portfolio we have everything
Speaker 1: from Cape Cod Chips, Kettle Chips, um obviously Campbell Sup,
Speaker 1: Chunky Chunky Soup. I'm on the board of Empire State
Speaker 1: Realty Trust. We own the Empire State Building. We love
Speaker 1: to have you guys come do a show Empire State Build.
Speaker 1: I personally hold that road. We can make that happen.
Speaker 1: It's on me. We make that happen. We be honored. Um.
Speaker 1: I um managing director of USA Basketball. So I'll be
Speaker 1: picking the Olympic team. Um. And you know Steve Kerr's
Speaker 1: our head coach for the next next cycle. What else
Speaker 1: am I doing. I'm on the board of Duke Shoes
Speaker 1: Coming Back Out, Shoes Coming Back Out. A matter of fact,
Speaker 1: this is a partnership right here with two State, So
Speaker 1: it's a partnership. He's a be coming out. He wore
Speaker 1: these the g H two's on, no on, all eyes
Speaker 1: on me. Yeah, and so so that really helped with
Speaker 1: the shoot. But yeah, just you know, keeping a busy man,
Speaker 1: we were building downtown Atlanta. We're pointing four billion dollars
Speaker 1: in the downtown Atlanta, and so trying to do like
Speaker 1: an l A live kind of in downtown Atlanta. So
Speaker 1: just staying busy man, you know, doing TV as well,
Speaker 1: trying to be like, y'all love it. Is it true?
Speaker 1: Anita Baker introduced you into me a kind of yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah kind of. So so Isaiah has the jersey retired,
Speaker 1: and I need a baker scenes the national anthem at
Speaker 1: the jersey at the game. So afterwards there was a reception.
Speaker 1: I me didn't need a baker. So she and her
Speaker 1: husband so she's like, you know, so I know you
Speaker 1: gotta go. I know you like breaking all the hearts
Speaker 1: and all this, and I mean I'm just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't find I'm struggling. I wasn't really struggled. I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm struggling, you know that, you know. So
Speaker 1: so the next week she was at the Sole Train
Speaker 1: Awards and she met to me and to me, it was,
Speaker 1: you know, from Windsor, which is right across the river
Speaker 1: from Detroit, big fan of a nitter. So she was
Speaker 1: telling her this and he was I got just the
Speaker 1: guy for you. So she kind of she planted the seed.
Speaker 1: I ended up connecting with to me, you know, a
Speaker 1: couple of months later. But yeah, you know, it's a
Speaker 1: good story to say, A need a hook to say.
Speaker 1: It's largely your oldest daughters in m m A. As
Speaker 1: a father, what is that like watching your daughter punched
Speaker 1: people in the face and get punched you have, you
Speaker 1: have girls, you two boys with three boys. Um, so
Speaker 1: she's you know, she started doing jiu jitsu, and as
Speaker 1: a parent, you think, okay, girl, young lady getting to
Speaker 1: go off of college, learned self defense. That's a good thing.
Speaker 1: But that just kept going, kept going. And so right
Speaker 1: before COVID, she's like, Dad, I think I want to fight.
Speaker 1: So I got a buddy who's the general council at UFC.
Speaker 1: So I took her to a fight and we're sitting
Speaker 1: up close. I'm thinking, you know, she sees up close,
Speaker 1: she won't want to do it. I'm you know. So
Speaker 1: we get there in North Carolina, we go to the fight,
Speaker 1: we fly home that night, we get into two am.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Mila, what do you think. She's like, Dad,
Speaker 1: I could be a champion. And I was like the backfire,
Speaker 1: like the player didn't work, but she kept going and
Speaker 1: she fought last She fought last October. And I mean
Speaker 1: she's passionate about it. And you know, like if somebody,
Speaker 1: if your parents tried to tell you couldn't play basketball,
Speaker 1: you gotta support your kids whatever they want to do.
Speaker 1: So let me tell you so to me and I.
Speaker 1: So she goes to the fight. She goes early. We
Speaker 1: drive from Orlando to Lakeland, Florida. By the hour drive,
Speaker 1: we don't say a word in a car. There's no music,
Speaker 1: no nothing on the rate. We're not saying that. There's
Speaker 1: a nervous energy. We get to the fight. There's a
Speaker 1: bar man. We probably each had about eight rum coach,
Speaker 1: you just had to by the time she came on.
Speaker 1: She comes out. Her her walkout music was Rick Rocks
Speaker 1: feeling Good, The Devil was The Devil is a Live.
Speaker 1: So she comes out, you know, but we're like, now,
Speaker 1: we're like, this's your first time actually seeing it, first
Speaker 1: time seeing it. So she gets in the ring. She
Speaker 1: goes in first, the young lady she's fighting, who's fought before,
Speaker 1: who looks like she's been in some fights, you know,
Speaker 1: And so we're a little nervous about but like she
Speaker 1: gets she comes with studs and her ears and that's
Speaker 1: a no no. So they can't get them out. And
Speaker 1: so they're going through all this and trying to get
Speaker 1: them out. It's been ten minutes. So now we're kind
Speaker 1: of mad. It's the tack that yeah, that they're stalling.
Speaker 1: So now to me, you know, I won't repeat with
Speaker 1: to me, it was saying, but it's what they say
Speaker 1: in Memphis a lot and so um and so anyway,
Speaker 1: she gets in the ring, she chokes her out with
Speaker 1: fifteen at these seconds, and uh, you know, so she's
Speaker 1: into it, man, and you know, what do you do? Man?
Speaker 1: You know? But but she and she and she and
Speaker 1: you you know, I mean, she's quiet, sweet, kind like
Speaker 1: the last person you would think. But dude, she goes
Speaker 1: six days a week. She teaches it, she loves it.
Speaker 1: She's a brown belt like she's she wants to fight,
Speaker 1: she wants to try to go for it. She wants
Speaker 1: to open up gems down the road. So she's got
Speaker 1: a plan and you know, we'll see what happens. You
Speaker 1: were always forward thinking in basketball, so much that you
Speaker 1: didn't have an agent. What did that? Where did that
Speaker 1: idea come from? And you were able to be successful.
Speaker 1: I realized early on that the NBA is a global
Speaker 1: marketing and public relations firm. That's the Skies as a league.
Speaker 1: We went to China. Remember we went to China, and
Speaker 1: we're over there and people knew who we were. We
Speaker 1: go places recognize us, and that's because that's what the
Speaker 1: NBA does. And so I felt like I needed an
Speaker 1: attorney who can negotiate my contracts. But all the marketing
Speaker 1: opportunities I was coming from the league that was coming
Speaker 1: from different, you know, because the league's pushing young players
Speaker 1: and I was delivering early on. So why am I
Speaker 1: gonna pay somebody? And then why am I gonna let
Speaker 1: them own that relationship and leverage it. I want to
Speaker 1: sit with with Coca Cola's right, I want to sit
Speaker 1: with nest Lee. I want to sit with and talk
Speaker 1: about marketing plans, sit with the ad agency. A lot
Speaker 1: of times agents might leverage that, you know for another CLIs.
Speaker 1: So you know, I got hurt. All that momentum kind
Speaker 1: of went away, but it was invaluable experience, like having
Speaker 1: an office, having employees doing evaluations, raises um, sitting in
Speaker 1: meetings talking about strategy, like I'm doing all this while
Speaker 1: I'm playing, and it just helped, you know, help me
Speaker 1: think about and learn about other things. So you know,
Speaker 1: it was fun and I had a good time. And
Speaker 1: you know, maybe if I had the muscle of a
Speaker 1: big time marketing firm, maybe things would have been a
Speaker 1: little different. But I had well, I had a lot
Speaker 1: of deals real quick before we get the quick hitters
Speaker 1: um situation. I thought you were gonna ask about like
Speaker 1: Biggie Oh Ship, Yeah, because you remember you asked me
Speaker 1: about that in l A. Yeah, I talked about in
Speaker 1: the book. So yeah, the night that the night Biggie
Speaker 1: pass talk to us about that. Damn I told you
Speaker 1: forgot about that. We just had We just had the
Speaker 1: photographer that go ahead. We're in l A here March eighth,
Speaker 1: because he died on the knife. It's right March nine.
Speaker 1: So we played the Clippers. We beat the Clippers. I
Speaker 1: did work, I did my thing, and and so to
Speaker 1: me as label is throwing a party. So after the game,
Speaker 1: I go with Tamiya and I don't know if you
Speaker 1: know Jay Brown. So Jay was at the label. We
Speaker 1: get in the limo. We go back to to to
Speaker 1: me as Manager's house. First of all, I was the
Speaker 1: night that the first night I was the first time
Speaker 1: heard hypnotize. It wasn't on the radio yet, but they
Speaker 1: had disk and they kept saying Detroit players. You know,
Speaker 1: Pick gave his mighty It's like run that back, running
Speaker 1: back in the limo every time, you know, hearing that song.
Speaker 1: So we go to the party to understand t and
Speaker 1: I've been together almost a year. It was the first
Speaker 1: time we had been out, and so we walk in
Speaker 1: and everybody turns like everybody's looking at us because they
Speaker 1: hadn't seen us out, but everybody was there. We saw Biggie,
Speaker 1: we saw Pufficly. We weren't there long. We we might
Speaker 1: have been there ten minutes. We might have left five
Speaker 1: minutes before they left, because when we left, they were
Speaker 1: kind of near the door. And by the time we
Speaker 1: got back to too minutes place and it already circulated
Speaker 1: that he got killed. And so it was. It was crazy. Um,
Speaker 1: it was a little weird thinking that they were out
Speaker 1: there because it was still all that East coast West
Speaker 1: coast stuff. And shoot, that even happened with to me,
Speaker 1: like she got caught up, you know, we got caught
Speaker 1: up in a situation. Um, she was in the studio
Speaker 1: working on the album. Stevie J produced one of the songs.
Speaker 1: And so before I got there, I'm with Jay Brown.
Speaker 1: We're Benny Hannas and we're doing sake bombs and uh.
Speaker 1: And so we come to the studio. So before we
Speaker 1: get there, they were in the commons room, Stevie J
Speaker 1: and his his his bodyguard and the outlaws or in
Speaker 1: the other studio, and so I guess they had words
Speaker 1: in in the in the common area. Somebody pulled out
Speaker 1: a gun. So this all happens before we get there.
Speaker 1: So I show up, we get there, and ten minutes
Speaker 1: after we get there, police come in, rifles drawn, paint.
Speaker 1: We're all on the wall. I'm thinking, like this R
Speaker 1: and B session, Like I'm like that. And so anyway,
Speaker 1: I found out what happened, and you know, we we don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know what ultimately happened. And but I say
Speaker 1: that that was that was probably the summer of ninety seven.
Speaker 1: So but it was just still tension, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. And so when we saw Biggie and them
Speaker 1: at that, it was just like and I didn't think
Speaker 1: what happened would happen, but it was just it was
Speaker 1: it was weird. Energy was off. Yeah, it was a
Speaker 1: weird night. It was a weird night, real quick before
Speaker 1: we get the quick hitters. The Grand Hill drink Sprite
Speaker 1: I mean to me, you know that and Little Penny
Speaker 1: or kind of what I remember growing up from like
Speaker 1: athletes and commercials. So how did that come about? In
Speaker 1: the idea and behind the actual commercial? The idea it
Speaker 1: was kind of genius. Man. It was basically, obey your thirst,
Speaker 1: don't let somebody tell you to drink it. And so
Speaker 1: we're making fun of pitchment and uh and making fun
Speaker 1: of myself and so that was Sprite attaching himself, aligning
Speaker 1: himself with the NBA. You know, I got involved with that.
Speaker 1: Um So we had a We had a great run,
Speaker 1: did a lot of fun commercials. Even did a shore
Speaker 1: with Kobe um his second year. Crazy story. We did
Speaker 1: a commercial together his second year during the season, I
Speaker 1: fly out to l A. Now I'm at this point,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm the big you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Like He's like, it's like Midway, it's before the All
Speaker 1: Star break. When he's young, he's got a lot, he's
Speaker 1: having a great second year. I fly out to l A.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna do this commercial where he's on He's
Speaker 1: on one shoulder, I'm on the other shoulder. And we're
Speaker 1: going back and forth with this kid. And so when
Speaker 1: you do these commercials, you you approved the script before
Speaker 1: you commit. So the script has been approved for for
Speaker 1: a week. So I fly all the way out to
Speaker 1: l A on the off day. We get there and
Speaker 1: the director comes in and he says, Kobe wants to
Speaker 1: rewrite the script. And I'm like, he wants to what
Speaker 1: he wants to rewrite the script? I'm like, all right.
Speaker 1: So they come back like thirty five minutes. He got
Speaker 1: all the good lines. Now he had all the good lines,
Speaker 1: and they're like and I'm like, look, na, I said, man, look,
Speaker 1: I come all the way out here. This is what
Speaker 1: I agreed to if he wants to do this, I'm
Speaker 1: looking back on the plane fly back, and so I mean,
Speaker 1: while we're trailers right next week, he just could have
Speaker 1: gone and talked to each other. But but that was cold,
Speaker 1: Like I kind of respect that he was bold enough
Speaker 1: to want to do that. And anyway, we went back.
Speaker 1: We did the script that we we agreed to. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the spray stuff, man, that was that was fun and
Speaker 1: and poking fun at people. Having pitchmen was the whole
Speaker 1: premise behind the Sprat campaign. So so well, man, it's
Speaker 1: been a great interview. Quick hitters. First thing to come
Speaker 1: to mind. Let us know, duke all time starting five
Speaker 1: including yourself, so you plus four all time dukes dukies. Man,
Speaker 1: I gotta go with Later Man. He he did work.
Speaker 1: He was killing the killer. He I think later top three,
Speaker 1: top five, maybe all time in college, just in terms
Speaker 1: of his accomplishments. Later, I gotta go with I gotta
Speaker 1: go with Johnny Dawkins because he kind of said people
Speaker 1: don't people don't appreciate how talented he was. You're gonna
Speaker 1: get me in trouble, man, I'm gonna show the young
Speaker 1: fellas some love. Ja Jayson Tatum. I think when it's
Speaker 1: all said and done, I think he's gonna be the best.
Speaker 1: And he might he might already be there. He I
Speaker 1: don't know if there was a more skilled guy coming
Speaker 1: in out of high school, had it all, you know,
Speaker 1: offensively that final spot. Kyrie. He was only there for
Speaker 1: nine days. And I know sometimes we claim him, sometimes
Speaker 1: we don't, but talent there he was. He was Kyrie.
Speaker 1: Kyrie Dawkins yourself laterner Jason Tatum five n five Right there?
Speaker 1: What album can you listen to with no skips? I
Speaker 1: can't have your wife? No Brownie points here Biggie's first album?
Speaker 1: Mm hmm uh point no, was it the Little Baby
Speaker 1: on the front. That's my first that's my favorite one
Speaker 1: right there. Yeah, I mean you kind of already missed
Speaker 1: if you have a better story. But best Kobe or
Speaker 1: MJ story off the court, Uh, Kobe probably, Like, um,
Speaker 1: I go up one night to me is living, she's
Speaker 1: living on the Wheelshore Corridor, and I think we're engaged
Speaker 1: at this point. And it's late, like I go to
Speaker 1: the men's gym if U c l A maybe like midnight,
Speaker 1: and I'm and I'm I'm reading, I'm redoing my shots,
Speaker 1: so I'm changing my mechanics and I'm just going in
Speaker 1: there to do like just some set shots by myself.
Speaker 1: And I go in there and Kobe's in there and
Speaker 1: he's lathered up and he's got his guy and uh
Speaker 1: so I'm down at the other end and he's like,
Speaker 1: you wanna play one on one? And I didn't because
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm changing my shot, like I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not there yet, but I'm like, I got it. I
Speaker 1: got can't I can't say no? And uh we played
Speaker 1: one on one and I'm telling you it was like
Speaker 1: a game seven in like late July, like it was.
Speaker 1: I don't think I played that intense in the summer.
Speaker 1: And he was like he was, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: just what second years coming off his second year, drafted
Speaker 1: off his second year, and so like the work ethic
Speaker 1: and and how hard like up until then, man like
Speaker 1: I didn't really work on my game and I just
Speaker 1: hooped to play pick up ball. And that summer was
Speaker 1: when I started, Okay, I'm gonna start like working and
Speaker 1: getting better and trying things. And and that was the
Speaker 1: hard part because I did it. I did it in
Speaker 1: ninety nine, and then after that, I never never worked
Speaker 1: on my game in the summer because I was hurt.
Speaker 1: I was trying to get healthy and it finally got healthy.
Speaker 1: And now I didn't touch a ball in the summer.
Speaker 1: So those Phoenix years, I didn't. I'm trying to preserve
Speaker 1: my ankle. So the you know, going through having a strategy,
Speaker 1: working on stuff, all of that. Like I enjoyed doing
Speaker 1: that um and a lot of it I got from
Speaker 1: being like watching this kid, his kid younger than me, grinding,
Speaker 1: like getting after it by himself. It's like a Friday night.
Speaker 1: I'm alright, I'm wiped up. I'm telling you know. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm just wanting to go get some shots up late
Speaker 1: at night, and he's in the gym going at it.
Speaker 1: And and so that was. That was a moment that
Speaker 1: that um that I remember. That was. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: this kid, I remember my freshman or u C. So
Speaker 1: he used to be on campus all the time. People
Speaker 1: see him normally during the day, at night working out playing.
Speaker 1: It was and and you know, he impacted a whole
Speaker 1: generation now that they do that, they put that like
Speaker 1: you know, back in the day, you might go and
Speaker 1: five spots, five mates, got some shots up, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But like he put the work in
Speaker 1: for sure. It's crazy question. But I know your game
Speaker 1: and I just seen you play so much and I
Speaker 1: relize you. But you have to cross someone to dunk
Speaker 1: on someone. But I've seen you do that too many
Speaker 1: times in the same place. It was us go hand
Speaker 1: in hand. Yeah, for you that go in there. But
Speaker 1: for the questions like no, maybe maybe the favorite someone
Speaker 1: you crossed up and dunked on. That was your that
Speaker 1: was the ship, that was your patent of thing. So
Speaker 1: you've got a lot of people on that list. It
Speaker 1: was always it was always fun dunking on the kem back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got him a couple of times. Very few people
Speaker 1: got it. And he Um. I used to tell him,
Speaker 1: I'm a clown, I'm a climb mountain. Tumbo, I'm coming
Speaker 1: and you don't know, you ain't gonna get me, and
Speaker 1: uh and so that back and forth. Um. The thing
Speaker 1: about my Tumbo in morning, they jumped for everything. And
Speaker 1: even if they got jumped a the guys won't won't
Speaker 1: come over. Shock, They won't come over, you know, they
Speaker 1: don't want to get posterized. But like Kim Bad, he
Speaker 1: came every time, every time, and he he got got,
Speaker 1: He got got, you know more than no question, no
Speaker 1: question for sure. Uh, five dinner guests that are alive?
Speaker 1: Was that? Five dinner guests that are alive? You know what?
Speaker 1: You know? I was thinking, man for my my fifties,
Speaker 1: to get five, like five rappers that like I grew
Speaker 1: up and having them over for dinner like rock Kim
Speaker 1: Cameras one came people don't know. You make beats, bro
Speaker 1: all you that grand it's nice on the keys. I retired, man,
Speaker 1: because you know, to me and said I was she
Speaker 1: called me quincy bones, start called me piss beats. She
Speaker 1: was like, you know, because you know, she she's like,
Speaker 1: where's the melody? Like you know, I'm like, baby, look
Speaker 1: look it's not It's r B is a different you know,
Speaker 1: but she her thing when she's spending too much time
Speaker 1: doing it, for not getting to check, you know. But
Speaker 1: I just I love it, man, I love music. And
Speaker 1: when I listened to a song, I don't listen to
Speaker 1: the lyrics. I listened to the music, like what what's
Speaker 1: the drum track? What's what's the baseline doing? What's so?
Speaker 1: You know, I retired from making beats, but yeah, rhapsody up.
Speaker 1: In fact, I went to the studio with Ninfe Wonder
Speaker 1: back in the day and I was trying to I
Speaker 1: was trying to chop to shop Shalam not Shalamar climax
Speaker 1: um song, and I was I couldn't get what I wanted.
Speaker 1: So I put on to me to put on still,
Speaker 1: and I chopped up the beginning part and put some
Speaker 1: drums over it, and she heard it she was in
Speaker 1: the studio and she went in and put it on
Speaker 1: her mix tape before she before she blew up, and
Speaker 1: so but I always love music. So you get five
Speaker 1: legends on your birthday? Yeah, I gotta I gotta figure
Speaker 1: out five rappers that I grew up that were like
Speaker 1: and I know those three. I gotta figure the other two.
Speaker 1: But it'd be fun to bring him in and just
Speaker 1: just chop it up with him. Trick question. Okay, who
Speaker 1: would you like to see on All the Smoke? But
Speaker 1: but who would I like to see on our show?
Speaker 1: But you have to help us get your answer on
Speaker 1: the show. Get that person on the show, Obama, I
Speaker 1: think that'd be cool. You heard what I said, though, right,
Speaker 1: you have to help us get that person on the show.
Speaker 1: I don't know if somebody else, think of somebody else, Grant,
Speaker 1: if anyone could probably get up, probably Silver has been
Speaker 1: all right, Yeah, yeah, I think we can get that done.
Speaker 1: I want to ask him, can I get some of
Speaker 1: my money back? Now? He looked at everything that's going
Speaker 1: on and looked at the brawl, like, do you really
Speaker 1: think I should have took my money? Was at work?
Speaker 1: I want to ask him that seriously, but Adam always
Speaker 1: says this. I'm repeating with all. Adam says, but he
Speaker 1: works for me. He says that we appreciate that, but
Speaker 1: i'd be nice. That'd be good. I think he would
Speaker 1: do it too. You got something for you, bro, can't
Speaker 1: let you leave, and he had it. All the smoke
Speaker 1: gear from my new UH line is dropping. Where can
Speaker 1: they get that? All the smoke dot store If you
Speaker 1: didn't know, now you know, go grab something. You might
Speaker 1: not look as good as us in it, but you
Speaker 1: can try. You can try. Yeah, definitely, Well, man, we
Speaker 1: appreciate you. We want to make sure you know how
Speaker 1: important you wore to us man as a as a mentor,
Speaker 1: as an athlete, the way you live your life off
Speaker 1: the court as well. I mean, you've just been that dude,
Speaker 1: and we really feel like you know, you're still one
Speaker 1: of the greatest players of all time, and so we
Speaker 1: really appreciate your time stopping Bibe and chase your ask
Speaker 1: for three years. I finally got you. Make sure you
Speaker 1: check out this book out now. Get the book, get
Speaker 1: everywhere Amazon, book Stories by the book Story Game out now.
Speaker 1: Happy you Finally, I appreciate you all man, and I
Speaker 1: admire what y'all are doing. Y'all. Y'all killing it, man,
Speaker 1: and the feelings mutual so here. Like I said, the
Speaker 1: fact that you got to unload, that's a heavy way
Speaker 1: to carry. And you guys need to write books at
Speaker 1: some point when at the times right, tell y'all got
Speaker 1: stories that definitely completely everybody. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm telling y'alluzzle pieces together with Gee, thank you man,
Speaker 1: I appreciate. This is how I know. It's something some
Speaker 1: feelings expressing here. You ain't get no fresh cut on
Speaker 1: the bone the coach. No, I wonder that was on purpose?
Speaker 1: It was, trust me, I know like it was. It
Speaker 1: was intentional, you know, symbolism that yes, I can't wait.
Speaker 1: I'll tell y'all should write a book that's a rap rant. Hell.
Speaker 1: You can catch some Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the hard
Speaker 1: platform Black Effects. See you all next week. Peace, go
Speaker 1: get the book. This is all a smoke A production
Speaker 1: of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Showtime