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Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, or production of The Black

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Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime M

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to All the Smoke, New York City. Yes, Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: last and final show today. Man, we got a good one. Jack.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy this somebody who I idolized. I've been idolized.

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Speaker 1: I tell him all the time. But I'm gonna let

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Speaker 1: you introduce before I introduced him, I when I thought

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Speaker 1: of this show. He was one of the first people

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Speaker 1: I hit like, g I need you, and he's like, uh.

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Speaker 1: That's when he first started working on the book three

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Speaker 1: three years ago to three years ago, three years ago,

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Speaker 1: and we finally got him. You see, the book is

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Speaker 1: out now they should you pick it up. But we

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Speaker 1: got the one and only, my god big brother. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate It's an honor and a privilege. I appreciate your patience.

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Speaker 1: Come on, tak five years right this moment. It's just

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Speaker 1: an honor to have you on. Um, let's get right

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Speaker 1: to it. Talk about the book. What it's about. It's

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Speaker 1: a boy, my life and my journey. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: going back growing up, dukiears Detroit, the injuries, going through

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Speaker 1: that whole ordeal. I felt like getting in the Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame. That's a moment when you're going to be

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Speaker 1: naturally reflective. You know, we go through life and as

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Speaker 1: an athlete, you gotta go and just like like next

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Speaker 1: you gotta just you don't get a chance to really

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Speaker 1: reflect on what you're doing. But that moment, that celebration,

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Speaker 1: it was like, you know, I need to do this,

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Speaker 1: I need to write a book. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: took a minute in the process and in COVID and

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever the case may be, but it was

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Speaker 1: it was an incredible exercise. I think everybody should go

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Speaker 1: through the process. We all got a story. I think

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Speaker 1: we get older, we go back and look at our lives,

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Speaker 1: we learned the lessons. We can see things from an

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Speaker 1: older perspective. I think it's about being vulnerable, it's about

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Speaker 1: being introspective. Like it to me, the process of the

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Speaker 1: book I got learned. It might sound crazy, but I

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Speaker 1: learned more about myself. And I think we spend so

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Speaker 1: much time, you know, we play, and you gotta stay

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Speaker 1: in the moment and you keep every day you're fighting,

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Speaker 1: you know, every day somebody's trying to take your spot.

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Speaker 1: And then you retire and you're like, hey, what's next.

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Speaker 1: We're all hustling trying to figure things out, and so

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Speaker 1: we don't look back and we don't look back all

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Speaker 1: the time and live in those moments. And so anyway,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get too deep on that, but

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Speaker 1: like to me, um, it exceeded my expectations of of

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Speaker 1: what I learned about myself and my growth and to

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Speaker 1: share that and to be comfortable putting it all out

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Speaker 1: there was you know, it's opening that door, really opening

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Speaker 1: that door. And like you said, y'all both stories down

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Speaker 1: the pipeline. Yeah, after watching the finals, everything that's going

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Speaker 1: on right now, what's your what's your opinions so far?

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Speaker 1: You know, Golden State, I don't want to stay dominated,

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Speaker 1: but they've won seven quarters, you know, two games eight

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Speaker 1: quarters and that fourth quarter Game one got away from them.

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Speaker 1: They got to be kicking themselves right now. Um, but

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Speaker 1: the way they came out in game two, Um, they

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Speaker 1: were able to take away the you know, the others.

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Speaker 1: So like Boston hasn't played well at home throughout this

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Speaker 1: series and they've been up and down. They'll have a

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Speaker 1: good game and then follow up with a bad game.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I said, all along. I think Golden

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Speaker 1: State in six I still think that. I still think

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Speaker 1: Golden State will figure it out. I think Clay will

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Speaker 1: play better. Um I like this Boston team though. I

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Speaker 1: like the way they defend. They got a toughness about them.

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Speaker 1: Tatum's gotten better, um Brown, I mean the way they

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Speaker 1: played together. It reminds me a little bit of like

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Speaker 1: what could have been with me and t mac if

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Speaker 1: I had been healthful. But um no, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think Golden State, which is incredible thinking what they've been

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Speaker 1: through the last three years to get back. And this

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Speaker 1: might be and this is no disrespect towards Golden State,

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Speaker 1: but this might be their most at least talented roster

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Speaker 1: of all the teams they had going to THEE. I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say most meaningful. Okay, yeah, you're definitely definitely

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Speaker 1: don't agree with you. I agree with you. You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean they had I think we led them before.

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Speaker 1: Obviously their core was great and young, but they had

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Speaker 1: a strong veteran bench and that's what they made that

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Speaker 1: dynasty run for. Then to lose Katie, Clay gets hurt,

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Speaker 1: Steph gets her, They fall flat on their face. To

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Speaker 1: be able to read like teams don't rebuild that fast.

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Speaker 1: Remember step said we're gonna be a problem next year.

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Speaker 1: They didn't make the play in last year, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, So for them to bounce back and

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Speaker 1: get I think this will probably be one of the

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Speaker 1: most meaningful ones to them in my opinion. I agree.

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Speaker 1: I agree. You know it looks and I went through it,

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Speaker 1: you know, my injury and all that, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: we're getting into it. But when something's kind of taken away,

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Speaker 1: you turn to appreciate the value with more and so

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Speaker 1: I know Clay obviously what he's going through. But it's

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Speaker 1: a feel good story, and you know, I think everyone

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Speaker 1: likes to see them get back to the mountaintop. I

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Speaker 1: know it's good for ratings when gold States there, but

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Speaker 1: it's uh, it's been a good series. I think Boston's

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Speaker 1: gonna win another game or so. But I think I

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Speaker 1: think Golden State went great learning experience too though. For Boston,

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Speaker 1: you know that they're getting a great taste to me

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Speaker 1: on on how to do it on the biggest stage,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They had a media success

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Speaker 1: tatums rookie or you make the Eastern Finals, Lebron beat

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Speaker 1: you took a while to kind of figure it out.

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Speaker 1: Email you dugga shout out, email you dug a first

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Speaker 1: year coach to kind of get his hands on the

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Speaker 1: team and be able to form them so fast. Took

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Speaker 1: a half a season, and they've been the best team

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Speaker 1: in the league the second half of the year. So

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a great learning experience. I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously it's never promised. We all know that going back

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Speaker 1: to the finals has never promised. But I think they're

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Speaker 1: gonna learn a lot from this finals obviously. Yeah. Look,

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Speaker 1: I mean there was a lot of criticism this year

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Speaker 1: early on. Could could those guys co exist? They were

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Speaker 1: seventeen and nineteen before the new year. Um, But they

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Speaker 1: figured it out and all that. You know, as we know,

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Speaker 1: you go through tough times, it just it builds s grit,

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Speaker 1: it builds resolved and they got a lot of runway

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Speaker 1: in front of them. And so this team, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not good for my Hawks, but this team is

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Speaker 1: gonna be for real for for many years. How do

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Speaker 1: you think you would be in this ror your game?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I think with the spacing and

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Speaker 1: then now they've taken a little bit of physicality out

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Speaker 1: of the game. I think I could. It's just more open.

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Speaker 1: You think about it. Back in the day you have

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Speaker 1: big guys in the paint clogging up and I like

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Speaker 1: that you was still dunking on them though. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you know, is so nice the league.

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Speaker 1: You already know that, like like when you look bad.

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Speaker 1: Like we we were in Detroit. We were having a

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Speaker 1: game like, we didn't run, we played methodical, we didn't

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Speaker 1: get up and down like it is now. So yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: and the money and the money money, so but you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean I enjoyed my time. It was. It was

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Speaker 1: a different league. The games evolved, the shootings. But I

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Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of things that are better. There's

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Speaker 1: some things I don't like about the current league. Um

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Speaker 1: but um yeah, man, I mean y'all mean to do

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Speaker 1: right here in this era fun no question size for us. Man. Look,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I know you played with Draymond. Every time

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Speaker 1: I see Draymond, I say this, but I'm like Draymond,

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Speaker 1: you checked in the game, I would have been dropped

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Speaker 1: three most to you. I don't know how he like,

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Speaker 1: he's like a rim protector and he's in there. How

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Speaker 1: tall is six But he gets it done. Man, I

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Speaker 1: don't you know. But anyway, it was a different league, man.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, one player, you think, one player you want

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Speaker 1: to play with today? I mean right now. Obviously he's

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Speaker 1: getting up there and things are a little bit crazy

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Speaker 1: in l A. But I would have liked to play

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Speaker 1: with Lebron. And I don't know Lebron like that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've always been good and but I don't I'm not

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Speaker 1: in his circle like that. But um, I think everybody

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Speaker 1: that plays with him, he's like a glue guy. Guys

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Speaker 1: that play with them love him like he's inclusive. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, he he thinks the game at a high level.

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Speaker 1: I also think no one's endured as much hate. We

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Speaker 1: talked about that, Yeah, the hype and what he's done,

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Speaker 1: but just you think about, like Jordan didn't have to

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Speaker 1: experience that when we played in the nineties. It was

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Speaker 1: talk radio, maybe the newspaper, but you didn't hear the noise,

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Speaker 1: you didn't hear the slander. And now for someone like him,

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Speaker 1: the face of the franchise, who's been so good, but

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Speaker 1: he's got to endorsed so much. Justna we all get it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys, So let me just I got

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Speaker 1: sorry about math. So I'm sorry, man, I'm getting off.

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Speaker 1: So when Twitter, when Twitter first came out, I think

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Speaker 1: we were in there. Maybe it was Instagram, I can't whatever,

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Speaker 1: so mad, you know, somebody might say something slipped the

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Speaker 1: Matt on Twitter, and Matt would come back at him

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Speaker 1: like no, no, no, Let'm taking We're gonna be in

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Speaker 1: your city on this day and we're staying at this hotel.

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Speaker 1: Meet me at seven am in the lobby. He pulled

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Speaker 1: me to the side one day. You stop that, but

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Speaker 1: so he wanted all the smoke, but like literally, like

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Speaker 1: I was like yeah, but like, you know, just it

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Speaker 1: was around that time the game was changing. But we

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Speaker 1: hear all that and we're adults, we're older, we're we're

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm almost be fifty this year. But d

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Speaker 1: young kids, man, Like I think it does affect them

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Speaker 1: a little bit when they hear all that and they're

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Speaker 1: still impressionable, there's still trying to find their way. So

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Speaker 1: I don't envy that. And I think Lebron has been

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Speaker 1: sort of the poster boy at that and so I

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Speaker 1: admire that he's been able to just you know, you

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Speaker 1: don't know, he's winning, you don't know he's doing, you know,

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Speaker 1: but he he handles all that and handles it well

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Speaker 1: very well. Yeah. Uh. Born in Dallas, Texas. Uh, your

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Speaker 1: dad was a Pro Bowl Super Bowl champ with the

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Speaker 1: running with the Cowboys there the last time they won

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. Don't do that. Don't do that. Mom

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Speaker 1: was successful business. Only child. Um, football, you're always in

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Speaker 1: the mix as a youngster football. Talk about those times

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Speaker 1: growing up as an only child in that environment. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I was the only child of two only children,

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Speaker 1: and um, so it was just us and but you know,

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Speaker 1: football was my first love and grew up around it.

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Speaker 1: I was I was named by Roger Starback. So my dad,

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Speaker 1: my mom and dad were expecting a girl. And obviously

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Speaker 1: I'm not a girl. Um, so my dad can't make

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Speaker 1: up his mind. And so I was baby boy Hill

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Speaker 1: for like three days and Starback came to the hospital

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Speaker 1: and you know, came up with the name Grant, named

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Speaker 1: after my paternal grandmother's maiden name. Um. And so we

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Speaker 1: moved to d C. And you know, that rivalry, particularly

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Speaker 1: in the late seventies early eighties, it's always been intense.

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Speaker 1: But it was the Redskins were good cowboys coming off

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Speaker 1: the seventies, so I was a die like I'm a

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Speaker 1: cowboy fan like die Hard. That was tough being in

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Speaker 1: d C and being he's not a come on all teams.

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Speaker 1: That's a nemesis right there. But look, I was on

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Speaker 1: the I was on the parade on the float when

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Speaker 1: the Redskins won, and I think it was eight two

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Speaker 1: eighty three they beat the Dolphins. So I was on

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Speaker 1: the float. Dave Butts, who was the a lineman. I

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Speaker 1: went on the float with him and his family, and

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Speaker 1: I remember how proud of was because under my jacket

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Speaker 1: had a cowboy shirt off and so that was but

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Speaker 1: but football was everything, man, and my dad wouldn't let

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Speaker 1: me play. He wouldn't let me play until I got

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Speaker 1: the high school and so, um that killed me. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I resented it, and uh and so I

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Speaker 1: kind of got away from it. And by the time

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Speaker 1: I was in high school, you know, I wanted to play.

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Speaker 1: I was in basketball, I was all in, but football

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Speaker 1: was my first love. Question when did you realize basketball

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Speaker 1: can take your places? I first, I first fell in

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Speaker 1: love with basketball. Eighty two Final four, Jordan hit that shot.

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Speaker 1: Jordan North Carolina Georgetown. We we bought a Beta Max.

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Speaker 1: We taped that game, and so that was when I

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Speaker 1: fell in love. And then a couple of years later,

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Speaker 1: my dad and I started going to Final four's. So

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Speaker 1: when Georgetown won in eighty four and we went every

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Speaker 1: year from maybe four to eighty eight, that was a

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Speaker 1: little you know, father's son bonding or whatever. And so

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Speaker 1: I think for me it was probably like a you

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Speaker 1: I was thirteen and we went to St. Louis. First

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Speaker 1: game we played, we played Webber Super Friends, and I

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Speaker 1: talked about it in the book. Like my dad he

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Speaker 1: was he saw that he saw all these guys, he

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Speaker 1: saw us, and he was like, I'm gonna get my

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Speaker 1: speech ready for the case they lose. And we smacked him.

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Speaker 1: We beat him, and and and so then that tournament

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Speaker 1: we won the national championship. And so at that point,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, like seeing myself gauging myself

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Speaker 1: against other kids. Alan Henderson was at Jamal Mashburn and

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Speaker 1: these guys all made it to the NBA. Year old.

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Speaker 1: You say, we have a thirteen, But here's the thing

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Speaker 1: I was. I was young for my grade. So I

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Speaker 1: started college or high school at thirteen. I started college

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Speaker 1: at seventeen, so I should have been probably you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But I was going into high school,

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Speaker 1: and so I played varsity as a freshman. Well, those

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Speaker 1: guys were grade and so when I came back the

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Speaker 1: next year, I was like, I was, I had surpassed

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Speaker 1: all of them. We lost in the finals. I still

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Speaker 1: got the m v P. And so that was when

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Speaker 1: around that time it was like, Okay, I got a

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Speaker 1: chance to to I wasn't thinking the NBA, but I

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Speaker 1: What was your recruiting process? Like you know it was good,

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00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 1: it was you know, I mean for me, it was

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Speaker 1: it was. It was Carolina Georgia that was with the

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Speaker 1: two schools, and I love dad wants you to go UNC. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: mama wants you to to go to ourtown. That's right. So

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Speaker 1: we we had we had we had, we had season

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Speaker 1: tickets so we would go to Georgia games. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, Michael Jackson played was point guard,

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Speaker 1: so he went to my high school. He used to

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Speaker 1: work for my mother in the summers. My mom introduced

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Speaker 1: pat Ewing to his wife. So I was so I

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Speaker 1: was entrenched for Georgia, like I was all in um.

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Speaker 1: Like we all were I think at that time black team.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was I thought it was an HBCU back.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was like I didn't realize it

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Speaker 1: was a private school. But so Georgetown, Carolina, Michigan, Virginia

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Speaker 1: and Duke and I made my first visit and it

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Speaker 1: was two Duke and Coach K just kind of blew

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Speaker 1: me away. And I knew right then that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be there, and and the genius to coach K

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Speaker 1: and I know, you know, love hate Duke and all that.

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Speaker 1: And obviously now he's had he had great success at

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Speaker 1: the end and coach the Olympic team, but his ability

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Speaker 1: to get people to buy in. He wasn't a great

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Speaker 1: xCE and O coach, but like if he sat, he

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Speaker 1: looked you in the eye, like you believed in him.

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Speaker 1: And that was his genius, getting everybody to kind of

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Speaker 1: like buy in to him and buy into one another.

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Speaker 1: And so Duke dude really was my faith. But like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it just felt right, and you know, made

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Speaker 1: that decision, and you know, unfortunately we we made history,

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Speaker 1: you win titles in the famous Christian laden shot. How

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Speaker 1: big was that moment? Man? It's crazy, you know, It's

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Speaker 1: crazy to think that was thirty years ago and people

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Speaker 1: still people still talk about it. But Um, Christian was

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Speaker 1: a great college player. I mean Alonso Shack, Um, I

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Speaker 1: mean everybody he faced. He dominated Shack twice and he

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00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,680
Speaker 1: um and we had a good team. I mean, Bobby

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Speaker 1: was a great college point guard. I was you know,

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Speaker 1: I was a good player. He had three he had

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Speaker 1: three guys in the College Basketball Hall of Fame and

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Speaker 1: so um. So those moments were incredible. I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't think we realized why we were doing it, the

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Speaker 1: significance of what was happening. We were just trying to win.

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Speaker 1: We were I was nineteen, I was a kid. And

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Speaker 1: but that passed the later that shot Um later didn't

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Speaker 1: miss the shot the whole game later, it was cocky.

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Speaker 1: Later was like he talked trash um. He also had

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Speaker 1: a He was a great teammate as well. I remember

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Speaker 1: we had a game I talked about in the book.

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Speaker 1: We had a game we went to Buffalo to play

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Speaker 1: Canisius and he was a game for him, going back

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Speaker 1: to his hometown. And at halftime he had like one

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Speaker 1: or two shots, and Coach K's like, like, Christian, what's

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Speaker 1: going on? Like, this game is for you. You act

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Speaker 1: like you don't want to play, and he's like, I

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Speaker 1: want my hometown to see how good my teammates are.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, you you're coming back home college

360
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Speaker 1: player of the Year, you won't try to show out.

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00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 1: But he was trying to show us out. And so

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Speaker 1: he you know, you don't hear about that side of Christian.

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Speaker 1: You just here the you know, the crazy, and there

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00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: was a lot of craziness. But um, but he was.

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Speaker 1: He was a great competitor, you know, he he and

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Speaker 1: he and he did his work. He did his thing

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Speaker 1: with all the noise and knowing how everybody feel about Duke,

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Speaker 1: is the brotherhood tight enough to block out the noise

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Speaker 1: and stay strong? You know? Yeah? I mean it's funny, man,

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Speaker 1: because I don't think we were aware of what people's

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Speaker 1: perceptions were back then a Duke and I looked at

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Speaker 1: Duke no different than I looked at Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Georgetown.

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Speaker 1: These are p wise that have good basketball teams. And

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Speaker 1: so I get it with the you know, us beating

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Speaker 1: Vegas and the fan five and obviously Jalen's documentary and

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Speaker 1: how they felt towards us. But I wasn't aware of that,

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Speaker 1: Like honestly, like we we got along with every like

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Speaker 1: you know, web was my guys. I talked some stories

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00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 1: about Webb. And then when we're in high school, he

380
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: used to come visit me in Virginia. Um, you know,

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00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: we didn't have social media and we need the newspaper

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Speaker 1: back then. So we were in Durn. We go to Durn,

383
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: we go to cookouts, barbecue's, barbershot. Everybody showed love. So

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Speaker 1: I don't think I was aware that there was this stigma. Yeah,

385
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 1: like this now, I should have known better, because I

386
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 1: didn't like the Celtics for the very reason people didn't

387
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 1: like us. I was a Laker fan, and I identified

388
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: with the Lakers. But I think because we had really

389
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: good white players and had a very later parly, maybe

390
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: I fit this, like you know, my parents and you know,

391
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 1: people thought what they thought about me. I think that

392
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,439
Speaker 1: might have contributed to the narrative. But at the time,

393
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: like I was totally oblivious to that narrative and and

394
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: not until years later, I even thought the hate towards

395
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 1: Duke later on was because Duke has success like the

396
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: Yankees or like um, you know, Cowboys. I didn't realize.

397
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 1: I didn't really realize that you could have used a

398
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: better example. But I feel you you know, you know,

399
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: and so but I get it now, like I understand,

400
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: and it was an interesting time and you know, and

401
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: so you know, I get the had the brotherhood strong.

402
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 1: Coach k moved on. You know, Shires recruited well, um,

403
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 1: you know, we we hope to stay relevant, man, That's

404
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: that's that's the main thing. Ninety four draft, you got

405
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: number three overall to Detroit. What are you hearing leading

406
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: up to the draft? I mean, Glenn Robinson, Jason Kidd yourself,

407
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: what are you here leading up to their You're hearing

408
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: one to three? So this was this was crazy. So Glenn,

409
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: Glenn was Glenn was incredible in college thirty a game, like,

410
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: I mean, he was. He was unreal, man, And I

411
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: think he's underappreciated that people don't. They came into the

412
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: first first year in the league scoring twenty one a game.

413
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: So at the at the draft lottery, Mike Dunlevy, who

414
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: was the coach of GM, puts up his jersey. So

415
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 1: that's a sign they're gonna take him. So I figured

416
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 1: know Dallas had the number two pick that had Jimmy Jackson,

417
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: Jamal Mashburn. So they're gonna They're gonna take j Kidd.

418
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: Was was the right right decision. So Detroit to me,

419
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 1: they had Lindsay, they had Alan Houston. That felt like

420
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: the right fit. But Milwaukee wanted me to come in

421
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: and work out for him. I didn't want to go,

422
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: and my agent was like, that's the number one pick.

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00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: You gotta go out of respect. So I went there.

424
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be there. I didn't want to

425
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: be in Milwaukee. I dogged the workout. Mike Dunley. He

426
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: put me through this like he was. I was doing

427
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: laughs and suicide. He was killing me. And then he

428
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: wanted to play me one on one coach Dunley, and

429
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: so I'm like, so we checked ball and I'm standing

430
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: under the basket. He said the free thing. He said,

431
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: you're not gonna guarden me. I said, I don't think

432
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: you can make that, and man, he hit like ten

433
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: in a row on me, man like I wouldn't but

434
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: I wouldn't garden and uh, and I was like, what

435
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: is he doing? Like you know, but you know, he

436
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 1: wanted to see me compete against him, which I didn't get.

437
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: But no, I didn't go. I don't even want to

438
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: be there, and so you know this, yeah exactly, but um,

439
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: but Detroit was where I wanted to be, and I

440
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 1: felt like they had won recently, and you know the

441
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: colors red, white, and blue. I felt was good, you know,

442
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: good for my feelers. So I mean, he's right, you

443
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: had a nice catalog of of Nike's over at Duke.

444
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: What made you choose Feli because they were obviously a

445
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: lesser known brand of so let somebody say what happened? Man?

446
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: So so it was crazy. So I'll go out to

447
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: Nike and you know, you go out there for your

448
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: recruiting trip to take it to the store, you get

449
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: all this stuff. So Phil Night, we obviously know his

450
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: his genius. He was thinking about the Far East and

451
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: he was like, man, if I could go into China

452
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: and penetrate that market and there's a billion plus people

453
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: that I can get shoes on them, like he was.

454
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,479
Speaker 1: He was talking about this in this meeting, and he

455
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: wanted me to be via satellite the Great Wall of

456
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: China for the draft and like that would be a

457
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: way to break into that market. And I was like, no,

458
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: I want to be I want to be I want

459
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: to be with David Stern. You know what I'm saying, Like,

460
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: that's a dream. We all dreamed that to getting drafted

461
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 1: and that whole thing. And so but I tell that

462
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: story like that's where his head was at. But when

463
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: it's started negotiating, the money wasn't like it wasn't fit

464
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: in the vision, you know what I'm saying. And so

465
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: I went over reluctantly over the meat Fela and I

466
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: knew they had mashburn, but I know we we went through,

467
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: we toured the facility and we sat in the boardroom

468
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: and they had this this like proposal and on page

469
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: two was the money. And I turned that page and

470
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. I was like, you

471
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: know the money that they were offering, like the guaranteed

472
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: base salary and the Royal team. I was like, like,

473
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: you said, get that bag. You're not the type of

474
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: person to talk about this, but I just kind of

475
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: want to have context because it can you explain what

476
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: kind of money it was at that time compared to

477
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: maybe what some of the guys may be getting today.

478
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: So Nike was off for me about five hundred thousand

479
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: and Philo was basically it was a five year, fifteen

480
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: million dollar day. It was more money. So that was

481
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: a guaranteed royalty, and the shoe ended up exceeding I

482
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: think everyone's expectation. But I was like, hey, you know,

483
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: to this day, still selling, I still get a royal teacher. Yeah. Uh.

484
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: First impression, Uh, it's it's in Detroit. It's the end

485
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: of the bad boy era and now you're coming in

486
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: to be the face of the franchise. Yeah. You know.

487
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: It was crazy, man, because the team had won twenty games.

488
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: I came in. There was a void in the league.

489
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: MJ had retired. I think the league was looking for

490
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: a face. I played in a hundred and twenties and

491
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: of my games at Duke and all but five of

492
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: them on national TV, so people, I think knew who

493
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: I was, and I came out the gate and I

494
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: was I was like, I came out the gate like

495
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: I came out the gate. I think I got five,

496
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: ten and five my first game against the Lakers, and

497
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: like my first ten fifteen games, I was twenty more

498
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: than twenty a game. I was calling my boys like, man,

499
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: the NBA is easy, man like, and like, look, you know,

500
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: until they get a Scott report on you and figuring out.

501
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: But um, one thing that that helped me was that

502
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: that summer before my freshman or my rookie year, you

503
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: played pick up ball and then pick up ball, and

504
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: you know I used to. I used to play with it.

505
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'd come down my my My favorite guy

506
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: was the Pearl joined the Pearl. Kenny Anderson had great handles.

507
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: I used to trying to be like Tim Hardaway Chris Jackson.

508
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: So I would play with the ball, but when I

509
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: played in the games, I would turn my back like

510
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: like magic and and big guard. And so Quinn Snyder

511
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: was like, man, you need to play like this in

512
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: the league, like what you're doing out here and pick

513
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: up You need to play this way, not turning your back.

514
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: And so I didn't, you know, I didn't because I

515
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: didn't see big guys doing that. So when I came

516
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: in at six, hey I'm playing small forward, you didn't

517
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: have guys doing that, and so they weren't used to

518
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: having like Pipping could handle the ball, but Pipping didn't

519
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: come at you like that, could couldn't go full speaking

520
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: cross you. Yeah, So that that I think the ball

521
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,239
Speaker 1: handling I wasn't never a great shooter at least early on.

522
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: You know, I became a decent midrange, but the ability

523
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: to get to my spot and uh at the small

524
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: forward position, I think that's really helped me early on.

525
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: And were they weren't you see more of that now guys,

526
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: you know everybody does that, but back then, you didn't

527
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: have a lot of threes playing like that. As a rookie,

528
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: made the All Star Game and won CO Rookie of

529
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: the Year average twenty six and five. Um, after that

530
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: first year, if you said you called your homies after

531
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: the first and for the games where you surprised that

532
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: actually what you did fresh out of college in the NBA. Yeah,

533
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, I was surprised, and I was surprised at

534
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: all the fans, Like I was like, because they kept

535
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: trying to make me like the face and I'm thinking,

536
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: like I still like, I'm I'm trying to We won

537
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: twenty eight games, my friend, like you know what I'm saying,

538
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm still got a lot to learn. But um, that

539
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: first year was crazy, man, Like it was you know,

540
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: you shoot, you got commercials endorsements. Um, they would try

541
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: to call me the next Jordan's but I thought it

542
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: was foolish. But I leveraged that and what I mean

543
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: by that is I monitored. I didn't turn down the deals. Um,

544
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: but you know, it was hard because we were losing

545
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: and you go in college where every year you feel

546
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: like you have a chance to win a championship, and

547
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: now all of a sudden you're losing more games you

548
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: then you you know, lost in a lifetime. So that

549
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: that first year was kind of bitter sweet. Um. But

550
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: I felt like Alan Houston with lindsay that we had

551
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: a promise in future, and you know, I just wanted

552
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: to get better the next year. What was your welcome

553
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: to the nd game? Over? And obviously a lot of

554
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: success here first year, but what was your kind of

555
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: your welcome to the league moment? Was it a team?

556
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: Was it a player? Was it to play? Yeah? I

557
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 1: just think about the gates, man, like just you know,

558
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: coming in and like establishing myself, being able to do

559
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: what I wanted. I felt like it was easier than

560
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: the college game. I think making an All Star game

561
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: my first year like that was probably like like man,

562
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: like I'm here, you know, But there wasn't like one

563
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: signature play or moment or game or anything like that. Um,

564
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: I think just at the gate, coming in and and

565
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: and putting up work and having success. Um it's like

566
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: a dream come true. You know I didn't. I didn't.

567
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: You got understand. I talked about it in the book,

568
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: like I lacked self confidence, Like I didn't have great

569
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 1: confidence in myself. And I also didn't want to stand

570
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: out growing up. And I, um, I had to get

571
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: comfortable stepping into greatness. I had to get comfortable with

572
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: that kind of responsibility. And my last year, Duke, I

573
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: think I really kind of got to that point, which

574
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: helped me when I got to the league. But um,

575
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: so all that attention like that wasn't something that I

576
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: that I coveted, you know what I'm saying. And so

577
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: it was a little bit you know, now you got money,

578
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: you got fame, you're young, you got a little bit,

579
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: you know. So it was it was a little it

580
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: was a little wild that first year, and but you

581
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: know it was it was fun though. I mean, I

582
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: can't lie. You know, you recall your first game against it.

583
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: So MJ was retired your rookie year, right he was.

584
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: That was the year he missed. He came back through

585
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: the end of the year, end of the year. So

586
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: what was your first match up with him? Like, man,

587
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: I just wanted to go at him and I played

588
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: against him with the Dream Team, but I didn't really

589
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: go against him him and I crossed him up. I remember,

590
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: I was like geeked about that and we lost the game.

591
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: But you know, to go against Jordan like that was

592
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: that was. I'll tell this man, Jordan was It has

593
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: always been good to me, like he always would, you know,

594
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: we go out, we go eat, you know. He Um,

595
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: I think because he lost his dad, and I k

596
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: think he liked my dad, fan of my dad and

597
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: so you know, I don't know if it was me

598
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: or what, but he always and he talked trash about

599
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: Duke Carolina and all that, but he was always was

600
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 1: good to me. But um, yeah, you know, I mean

601
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: I tried to go at you. I didn't guard him

602
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: a lot. I'll tell you it was funny. So the

603
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: summer after my rookie year, you you weren't at u

604
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: c l A man, y'all, Chris Johnson, they ran ran

605
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: l A after y'all won the championship. So I'm out

606
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: in l A and I'm filming Living Sink and they

607
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: created that bubble and I go over there to play

608
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: against Jordan's and I played the first day and I'm

609
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: giving him the business. I am killing like I'm not

610
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: a shooter, but everything I'm shooting is going in. I'm like,

611
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: I'm crossing him up. So we're on a lot. They

612
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: build this bubble, He's got a court, and I'm going

613
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: at Jordan and I'm giving it. He wants to guard me.

614
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: I'm giving him the build. Man. In fact, it was

615
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: I had the shoes on my my g H two's

616
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: and he had this Jordan's tense but the pattern that

617
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: we both have patent level and uh man, I'm killing

618
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: them like I mean like like after I'm calling my

619
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: boys afterwards, like man, I'm killing Jordan like he little

620
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: like all this stuff. And so the next day I

621
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: come over and I'm confident. Now you know, I'm man.

622
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: He gave me a bit like it was like oh

623
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: the next the next day and I couldn't get a

624
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: shot all he was all that footwork and you know,

625
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: he was just But that was the best runs, I

626
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: mean not just in l A. Maybe the best runs

627
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: in the country were in that bubble. And you had Reggie.

628
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: You had Reggie Miller's one. Howard, you had a bunch

629
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: of Dennis Robman, all the U c l a. Guys

630
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: were there. Toby Bailey might have been the biggest celebrity

631
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: in LA this summer. And but yeah, Jordan's that was

632
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: that was a fun, fun summer right there. And had

633
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: had my moment against him, Jay, I'm talking about I'm

634
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: talking about giving them business like y'all. Yeah, I know

635
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: you Monest too, so you you was really probably giving

636
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: them that ship. But she's not gonna talk like that.

637
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: You want to go to the Loanta Olympics. How was

638
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 1: it traveling and being with those guys with the team

639
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: Let's name that team because that's Barkley, Penny, Reggie Stockton,

640
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: all those guys yet a lot of personnelity Shack Reggie

641
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: g p Um Charles like it was. It was but

642
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: the best part with the practices and we didn't do much.

643
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: We just scrimmaged. So I got a chance to go

644
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: against Scotty every day, and you know that was that

645
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: was crazy, Like Scotty was great, but I got I

646
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: got confid it in playing against Scott and to me

647
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: he was the gold standard at that point. But it

648
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: was crazy, man, like it was. I was there with

649
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: Shock when he left to go to l A. And

650
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: they had to the article in the center on Orlando.

651
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: We were in Orlando practicing, and they basically had a

652
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: surveyation should they pay Shack or not. I was on

653
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 1: the bus for Shock and he was in the back

654
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: and he was like, I can't believe that they don't

655
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: want me. And I was like, man, go out west,

656
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: go to l A. Man like, you know, I'm trying

657
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: to get that big out the east, you know. And uh.

658
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: But I couldn't believe that they would let Shaq go

659
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: because he was so dominant at the time, and they

660
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 1: really voted not to pay him. I know they didn't

661
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: pay him. What I'm saying there was there was the

662
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: paper did a survey the magic pay Shock or not.

663
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: It was supposed to be the first hundred million dollar

664
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: deal or something like that or and Shock's big thing

665
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: was Alonso got like a hundred and ten, and he

666
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,720
Speaker 1: was like, if Alonso is a BMW, I'm a Porsche.

667
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: And so if he's getting a hundred ten, I should

668
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: get a dred and twenty five. And so fans they

669
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: have voted. I don't know the survey or whatever, but

670
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: it was unanimous no and and so that was crazy.

671
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 1: But just being with those guys, man, it was good.

672
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, we went out a couple of times.

673
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: It was a little wild and you know, pre camera

674
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: phones and pre camera so y'all were safe. Yeah, man,

675
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: I look, I'm just saying that. Scotty I went out

676
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: with him one night and they threw a party in Orlando.

677
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: Now I didn't drink at this point. I didn't drink

678
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 1: telling about my wife true story, but so I wasn't drinking,

679
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: and so we went out. We went to Scotty's hammered.

680
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: You know he's drinking. We go back to his, uh

681
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: go back and play cards all night until about six

682
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: seven at Boo ray to like six seven in the morning.

683
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: We got practice at ten. I get to I'm the

684
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: youngest guy in the team. I have nothing. Scotty is

685
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: like this dude like running on. I was like, I

686
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: don't know how, but he and m J. Roll man,

687
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: so you know, I had a lot to learn. But

688
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: now it was great. It was We went a gold

689
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: medal and play with those guys was was was a

690
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: big thrill. What international players run of time? Um Oscar Schmidt.

691
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: He was older at that time, but he was giving

692
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: me the business. You know. He was tall, about six

693
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: nine and could shoot it quick trigger, big dude, and

694
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: so he could play. But you know, man, we dominated everybody.

695
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: It was no true story. Did you play Andrew Gays? Yeah, Australia. Yeah.

696
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: I wasn't worried about him. He was he was older

697
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: at that point. But in the Olympics, true story, nobody

698
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: wanted to be the leading score because you got drug tests,

699
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,240
Speaker 1: and so the only person that got drug tested every

700
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: game was Karl Malone. It was Karl Malone and whoever

701
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: the leading score was. We figured it out after a

702
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: couple of games. So at the end of the games,

703
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: everybody's passing to each other because nobody wants to shoot,

704
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: and it looks like we're being like real unselfish, but

705
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: nobody wanted to score because it took, you know, another

706
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: hour of drug testing and all that. So but it

707
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: was crazy. It was crazy. I would have arged that too.

708
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: How and where did you celebrate your gold Miller? You know,

709
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: that's went to me and I started. That's when we

710
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: kind of met before that. So after the gold medal,

711
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: I got a suite at the bell Air for five weeks,

712
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: and that's where we were for five weeks. She was

713
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: living in l A. And five weeks before the season,

714
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: now I was in l at the bell at Hotel

715
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: telling yeah open, I had her over the books called

716
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 1: game Yeah. Yeah. The gold Medal team or the Dream Team?

717
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: Who winning? Yeah? I mean we had six guys from

718
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: that original team. We didn't have m J. You practice.

719
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: Did you practice with the Dream Team as a yeah,

720
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: we be me Web Hurley, Penny Mash, Roddy Rodgers, Montross,

721
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: Alan Houston. So we played in the first game in

722
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: ninety two in LaToya. Alan hit about ten threes. Bobby

723
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: was getting wherever he wanted. Penny and I were dunking

724
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: everywhere in transition. Where was the beast? Like, where was

725
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 1: this killing them dudes? Like to the point where Larry

726
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: Bird was like, if that's what's coming in the league,

727
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: I need to get out, damn. But then the next day,

728
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: the next two days they smacked us. We had no

729
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: But that to me was a was a great gauge

730
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: to know that I could play at that level. But

731
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: I like to you know, look, man, were competitives. Man,

732
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: you always feel like you can win, man, like that.

733
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 1: You know, that's the thing about sports man. You always

734
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: feel we had shock. What were they gonna do with shock?

735
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: Penny was like, right, people don't realize to appreciate how

736
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: good you Penny and Shack alone and so we you know,

737
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: we're Reggie Mitch. I mean we were, Yeah, definitely held on.

738
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: Your run from two thousand was unprecedented. Five consecutive of

739
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: all NBA selections eight and six over that span. Did

740
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: you feel personally, and you just said, you're a competitive

741
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: you felt like you were the best player in the

742
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: league at that time. Every time I stepped on the floor,

743
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: probably after like round nineties six, I felt like I

744
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: was the best player. And I think, I don't think

745
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: that's unusual. I know every time this guy stepped on

746
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: the court, you felt like you were the best player.

747
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: Even if I if I even if I knew I

748
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: wasn't even to see it all on me. That's what

749
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like you have like to me, like I

750
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: went against m J. Like, I'm thinking, you gotta guard me,

751
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: and you have to have that mentality. You have to

752
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: have it. And I think when you were top, when

753
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: you just indly you gotta like even I mean, Matt,

754
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: you didn't score thirty points a game. But then when

755
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: you're getting out there, you compete. You gotta feel like,

756
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna shut this guy down. I'm gonna bust

757
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: is that like, you have to have that mentality, and

758
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 1: so I I did, and when I got hurt and

759
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: in those four years, I lost that and y'all never

760
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: got a chance to really see that that player in person.

761
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: But you go four years of her you know, I

762
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: know we'll get into it. We get four years of injuries,

763
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: you start to question yourself, your abilities, your body's ability

764
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: to stay healthy. And instead of feeling like I'm the

765
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 1: best player, I'm just I'm just happy to be out here,

766
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: which is a beautiful thing to have that appreciation. But

767
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: I lost that edge. I lost that like and physically

768
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: I lost a whole lot as a result as well.

769
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: So four years it just you know, you're like, I

770
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: remember during that time, it was back maybe an oh four,

771
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: I went. I was at Duke and coach came. It

772
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: was the year I sat out. He was like, who

773
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: the top five players in the league? And I was like,

774
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: shag Kobe, I'm naming guys. He said, Okay, who who

775
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: the next five? And I go, I go through the

776
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: I give me the next tent, and so I started

777
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: naming all these guys and he's like, you named twenty guys.

778
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 1: You didn't name itself. And so I didn't quite at

779
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: the time like understand. But like looking back at it,

780
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: like I had, it was so demoralizing, like going through

781
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: that that when I came back, it was like, let

782
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: me just like get in where I could fit it.

783
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 1: And like I said, I enjoyed it. I was grateful

784
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: to be able to play. But I lost that that

785
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: mentalent that middle side explained because like I said, it

786
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 1: happened a while. I go on people like you really

787
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: explain your injuries and how bad your ankle situation really got,

788
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: because I don't think people understand the extent of your injury.

789
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: And he came back still dunking on people barely. I mean,

790
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: it's a long story, and I get into it in

791
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 1: the book, but um, you know, I I got hurt

792
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: in Detroit and it was a comedy of errors, like

793
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: it was just it was mismanaged, the whole thing, and

794
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: and you know I got hurt. Um we didn't diagnose

795
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: it correctly, I think, And um, it was probably a

796
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: hairline fracture, got worse and worse until I broke it,

797
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: and then when I went to Orlando. So that was

798
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: the season before Orlando, correct, because my last year in

799
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: Detroit had surgery. But the surgery shouldn't have been It

800
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 1: wasn't a big deal, like every team was still coming

801
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: after me. I was healing when I got to Orlando.

802
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be out to December January, but

803
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: they brought me back in September, and so there was

804
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: some miscommunication. I ended up getting what's called a non union.

805
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: So the best way to explain that is if if

806
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: these two fingers are are one bone and they a

807
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: doctors put the bones back together, they put plates in

808
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: there to hold it to let it heal. And what

809
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: happened with me, they healed, but they healed his two

810
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: separate bones. That's called a non union. That becomes a problem.

811
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: That took three years to heal, so in three more surgeries,

812
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: and so if we had just followed the protocol that

813
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: was established, then maybe that would have been a void.

814
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: I can't say that with absolute accuracy, but so that's

815
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: kind of what happened. Now. The fourth surgery in total

816
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: I got septic. I thought I almost died. I had

817
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: a hole in my ankle from a staff infection. You've

818
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: seen the ankles nasty. The doctor said if the if

819
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: the skin the free flap surgery. They took skin from

820
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: my arm and it sort of used it as a

821
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: patch over my ankle. If it didn't take, they would

822
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: have had to amputate the leg and so that the

823
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 1: ankle of the leg. Yeah, like the lower part of

824
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: the leg. And so we didn't have social media, we

825
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: didn't have our the ability not to tell what was

826
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: going on. So I think a lot of people didn't

827
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: know it was right, how serious it was. And uh

828
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: so I go, I go through all of that in

829
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: the book. It was four or five years of just craziness.

830
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: But so that's why you lose that, you know what

831
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: I'm saying. You just like, man, I almost died, Like

832
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: at one point I didn't want to come back. But

833
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: you're just like, man, I'm just I'm just happy to

834
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: you to cut you out. What age are you at

835
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: that time? Two thousand, I'm twenty seven prime? And you

836
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: know what's crazy? Man? Like writing this book, like going

837
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 1: through it all. And I talked to you earlier about

838
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: like you gotta stay in the moment, like you can't.

839
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: I didn't deal with with all of the baggage mentally, emotionally.

840
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: I was just trying to fight to keep playing, getting

841
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: into the hall of fame. In that moment, you you reflect,

842
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 1: you reflect writing your story. I dealt with it then. Also, yeah,

843
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: like a lot of that, like you know, a lot

844
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: of that's heavy. It was. It was dark, even the

845
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: hall of fame. The hall of fame should be like

846
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: the you know, the icing on the cake, the ultimate

847
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: regardless of what happened or didn't happen, it validates you.

848
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: And I was mad. I was bitter because I'm thinking

849
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: you only got six years. Yea, y'all didn't get I

850
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to see this all the way through,

851
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: and so I didn't hear. I didn't deal with that

852
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: until after my career because you I'm fighting, man, I'm

853
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: just trying to stay on the court. You can't. You're

854
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: not gonna really look back at the good and the

855
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: bad while you in the midst off. I say this

856
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: because you are a big brother, Like you're the biggest

857
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 1: what if ever, like we all looked like you were

858
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: the next prototype you. They were fitting you to be

859
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: the next MJ because that's how talented you were, you

860
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And it's just like to hear

861
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: you kind of explain your story on what you went

862
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: through like you were robbed, We were robbed, like you

863
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: were going where no one has really been for your size,

864
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: your position, in what you brought to the game. So

865
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know, Like obviously for cool and

866
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: I've known you for years, you might big brother, but

867
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: we've never got that in depth. Like I couldn't imagine,

868
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: like you said, you finally unloaded that baggage twenty plus

869
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: years later, because like you were on pace to be

870
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,479
Speaker 1: one of the if not you know what, who knows,

871
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: one of the greatest players of all time, and to

872
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: have injury derailed that, Like it's just I I always

873
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: That's why I'm definitely gonna read this. But just as

874
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: the basketball site, the mental side had to be not

875
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: only on the court, but off the court in your

876
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 1: personal life and all it just weiited on you. It did,

877
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: it did, And you know, everybody's got something and everybody

878
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: goes through something. And sometimes I don't want to equate

879
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: this because there's people who have far more traumatic things

880
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: in their life. But sometimes we we suppressed that. Sometimes

881
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: you suppress it to survive and uh, but ultimately you

882
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: get through it by acknowledging it and dealing with it.

883
00:47:55,719 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: And so I I never unpacked it, and I didn't realize.

884
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: I didn't realize how much it impacted me. And like

885
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 1: I didn't think that, like because I used to say

886
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: to myself, like coming back from the injury, playing nine

887
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: more years, that's far greater than anything I did, because

888
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: I know what I went through, But I don't think

889
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: I really unpacked, like like how how how hard that

890
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: was for me and how difficult that was to go

891
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: through that, and you know, genetics, hard work, whatever, But

892
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: like I had a chance. You know, you have a chance.

893
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: They leave a legacy and and and I think I did.

894
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: I mean I had a great career, but I had

895
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: a chance to be really really special. And it's interesting, man,

896
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: Like I'm being honest here, Like when the NBA SEV

897
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: came out, Yes, Tea Mac you know the events, I mean,

898
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of Dwight come on, Like I

899
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: don't know, so I kind of like and maybe this

900
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: is a way to like protect myself but I was like,

901
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: you know what, I get it. I got hurt. You know,

902
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: I didn't have I didn't see it. All the way

903
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: through the Hall of Fame is college and NBA. So

904
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: my college helped get me in. So my body of

905
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: work wasn't enough. So I kind of justified it. But

906
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: just tell I'm being honest. So I'm at the All

907
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: Star Game in Cleveland and I'm working that night, I'm

908
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: working the pregame, that the post game and all that

909
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: goes on, and it hit me then, and that was

910
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: I got. I was emotional, and it was I was surprised.

911
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: I was emotional. You know, you're trying to protect you're

912
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: not trying to show it, but you're feeling like, like, funk,

913
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: I should be out there. And I remember twenty five

914
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: years ago I was in that building for the fifties

915
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: and it was All Star weekend and I said, you

916
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,959
Speaker 1: know what, if they ever do this again, I'm gonna

917
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: be on the next team. And when I was there,

918
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: and no disrespect to these guys because they do serving

919
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: to be on it, I'm fans. It is their brothers

920
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: of mine. I love him to death. But when I

921
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: saw people like, you know, guys from my era, like

922
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: Ray and Reggie and I used to be like, man,

923
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: I used to get him the business, like that's what

924
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: I was thinking, and so I had, you know, and

925
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: and they're deserving. So I'm not trying to so that

926
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: it's like it hit me and so like there's still

927
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: baggage like this still you know I'm saying it so

928
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: but it kind of triggered me a little bit. But

929
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Look, I mean, you're better

930
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: than Danny Shades. Bro. I'm sorry man when you said,

931
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: excuse me, Dolf Shades. You're better than Dolf Shades. I

932
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: want to seem sorry I was nicer than Dolf Shades. Look,

933
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: you got given respect for his time. But I want

934
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: to say something about y'all man, because I know you're

935
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 1: interviewing me. But I played. First of all, I remember, Matt,

936
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,919
Speaker 1: I watched you play during the lockout and you see

937
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: I like, and I remember hearing you are a football player.

938
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: And then fast forward, I think it was oh seven,

939
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: y'all had y'all run and Golden State and I'm like,

940
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: who is this light skinned crazy mother ran across the

941
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: court and Devin somebody and I was like, Yo, this dude,

942
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: it's crazy, Like you know what I'm saying. Like, but

943
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: then I played with you and and and people get

944
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: to see that, you know, different sides of you guys now.

945
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: But the thing that showed me a lot about you

946
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 1: was when our teammate Barbosa and his mother passed and

947
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 1: your mom had unfortunately from can And I'm not trying

948
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: to bring it up, but like, and I know that

949
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 1: was hard for you, but to see you there for

950
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: him and he's crying, he's going through it, and like

951
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to be supportive because I hadn't

952
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: really gone through it. But I was like, yo, this

953
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: dude like mad, like all that other stuff and all

954
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: the stuff that you've gone through. I played with you

955
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: with the Clippers. You come into the aid of a teammate,

956
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: all your stuff, all your smoke. It was defense defending

957
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 1: a teammate. And in this, dude right here, the same

958
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: thing in the palace. You come into the aid coming

959
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 1: to the aid of a teammate. Everybody I didn't play

960
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: with with you stacked, but everybody that's played with you

961
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: that I know thinks the world of you. And so

962
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: I was like, like, as teammates and guys like I

963
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: could be in the trenches with these two rats. I

964
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: was with mad Um. I didn't you know I played one.

965
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: We was a little messed up in Phoenix, but in

966
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: l A, I didn't play. I watched. Can you imagine that?

967
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: That real quick and the phoeniship. They fired Terry Porter

968
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: at All Star Break that was our cover. First of all,

969
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm going, I'm so I'm going to come out of that.

970
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: We believe season. I'm Nelly mad I don't sign a

971
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: three year deal, so he gets rid of me. I'm

972
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: going in there and jeez there and I'm telling I

973
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: tell them, remember yo, Honor, You're my favorite plan. I

974
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: don't know if I made him feel old at the time,

975
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: but I'm going to tell him that during the game

976
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: Grant Hill, first of all, first of all, it was

977
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: crazy and they fired him, and yeah, we had too

978
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 1: much town, man. That was that. We had so much.

979
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: We should have been remember Sta Cock Superhero. We had.

980
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 1: We had some town. But the crazy thing was, um,

981
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: we just do right here. I don't know if you

982
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: remember this, but we played. We played in Orlando, and

983
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: I think after the whole thing in the past, that

984
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: was old four oh five and then oh six, I

985
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: got I had a sports hernius. I don't I don't

986
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: know if we played against each other until oh six

987
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: o seven and we're in Orlando and I'm guarding him

988
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: and we're writing on the sidelines and somebody yell something

989
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 1: slick out to you about you know too. I turned

990
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,240
Speaker 1: around and cursed him out. Yeah you remember that. Remember

991
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: that I cursed him out. And I didn't know how.

992
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: I didn't. We didn't know each other. But because I'm

993
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: I got a garden this dude, and I don't need

994
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, But like, but I, I

995
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: and so and then we played the next year, I

996
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: think it on the stage and uh man, y'all ran

997
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: up and down the court like that year. I was like,

998
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: I mean it was fun, but like I always said,

999
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: he was top three or four guys I had to go.

1000
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: I could never figure him out. I couldn't figure jack out. No,

1001
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: but I couldn't. But I could not. We had a

1002
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: different game. You could shoot it, you played with it.

1003
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: You couldn't speed you up. You shot it, you know,

1004
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: behind your head. And I was I could not. I

1005
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,280
Speaker 1: could guard. I had a you know, you couldn't guard guys.

1006
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: But you had a playbook for like, Okay, I'm gonna

1007
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,720
Speaker 1: you know, Lebron, I'm gonna try to do this or Mellow,

1008
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that. I couldn't do anything with Kobe

1009
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: like I mean, I couldn't know. I'm out there with

1010
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: one leg and they got me out here at thirty

1011
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: eight trying to guard Kobe. I'm looking at Matt like

1012
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: you was getting after it though. I mean, but but

1013
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: but I couldn't. It was I couldn't figure you out. Man,

1014
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: I pierce like I could. I had a game plan

1015
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: for and I actually did well against these guys. But

1016
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: I people don't appreciate how good you were. I think

1017
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 1: those that no, No, I've always told you that. I

1018
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: want to backtrack a little bit. So you go to Orlando.

1019
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: This is you t mac and a possibility of getting

1020
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan at the time walk us through this. So

1021
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: you're going through injury and and trying to get back

1022
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: on the court. You're teaming up with a young team

1023
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: mac Uh and then there's whispers or rumors that you

1024
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: could possibly get Tim. So what happened was Tim and

1025
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 1: I went We had the same major, so we went

1026
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 1: down together and Tim I think was more in at

1027
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: the time than I was. I was still you know,

1028
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: I had New York, I had a couple of other

1029
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 1: teams I was looking at, but Tim wanted to be

1030
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: in Orlando if he were to leave. And so we

1031
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 1: were down there and they were hosting us, and and

1032
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: they had just had a pretty good season Doc Rivers

1033
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: first year coach, and they were I think they were

1034
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: five hundred and so while we were there, like everything

1035
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 1: was going well, like it just felt like, yo, this this,

1036
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: this could happen. And I know it's hard for people

1037
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: now to think of Tim Duncan anywhere else. He was

1038
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: after his thirty I think he won a championship in

1039
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: San Antonio. And I'm telling you, man, I remember it

1040
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: like it was yesterday. We're at dinner and Tim's girlfriend

1041
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 1: asked Doc a question, can wives and girlfriends travel on

1042
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: the team playing? And you got to stand back then

1043
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: that that didn't happen and what happens now, But back

1044
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: then it didn't happen. And so Doc said, no, it's

1045
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: a business trip. That doesn't happen. I don't allow that now.

1046
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 1: I didn't know that San Antonio had started doing that,

1047
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,879
Speaker 1: you know, And so that's why, because I'm thinking that's

1048
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 1: a bold question, Like I'm like, why is she asking

1049
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: that question? So but I didn't pay much attention to it.

1050
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: So we got back to the hotel that night, and

1051
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 1: it was funny because to me and I, we we're

1052
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,320
Speaker 1: in the hotel almost like the hotel room was bugged,

1053
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: so we're whispering to each other, like you know, and

1054
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: she's like, he ain't coming, so what do you mean

1055
00:56:55,800 --> 00:57:00,439
Speaker 1: She's like when she asked that question, her old body

1056
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: language changed with that response, and I was like, na, no, no, whatever.

1057
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: So anyway, we get back, we get back to Detroit's

1058
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: funny story. So it was too much. I'm on crutches.

1059
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: So I ended up saying, you know what, have the

1060
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: teams come visit me in Detroit? So New York comes

1061
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: in and they bring they bring Star Jones, they bring

1062
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: like all these actors and actresses in. They got this

1063
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: tape they play, They got like Seinfeld and Brookshields and

1064
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 1: all these people like come. You know, you think you

1065
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: look at Orlando's night when see where do you come

1066
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:33,439
Speaker 1: to New York? Like? And I always wanted to play

1067
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: in New York. So Leon, you know, the actor Leon

1068
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: so I asked him about this. So he's on the video.

1069
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: He's like, gee, you think the women are nice in Detroit,

1070
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: wait till you come to New York. And so to

1071
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: me it was like, oh, hell no. And so to

1072
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: this day we talked, She's like, man, you think the

1073
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: New York would have watched the tape and so anyway,

1074
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: you know, New York didn't happen, but um and everybody

1075
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: and I was probably going to Orlando. But so then

1076
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: T Mac like there was but there was a chance.

1077
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,439
Speaker 1: As Tim was trying to figure it out, T Mac,

1078
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: you know, he was from down there, and so it

1079
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: just it was coming together, like all three of us

1080
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: might play together. And I didn't know how good T.

1081
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: Mac was at that time, and so I didn't know.

1082
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: I didn't know until they got to Orland. I was like,

1083
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, this guy right here is incredible. So

1084
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: not being able to be healthy to play with Mac,

1085
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: it's something that we talked, He and I talked about

1086
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: all the time, just like wishing that we could have

1087
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: could have could have done a team Mac and g

1088
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: despite all the injuries. You know how men and Matt

1089
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: feel about you. A lot of people, a lot of

1090
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: people feel the same way about you. And even though

1091
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:58,959
Speaker 1: the injury is you still had a Kobe s career.

1092
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 1: In our minds, the wait at you, how when you

1093
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: go back and look when you go back and look

1094
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: at all that, what's your thoughts? Like? How how greatful

1095
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: are you are you? You know, to make it through

1096
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: all that, the injury and still be able to come

1097
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: back and finish on a good note. Yeah, that was special.

1098
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: I mean it was a good thing. You know. On

1099
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: one hand, I didn't appreciate how good I was, and

1100
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: that sounds arrogant, but I didn't appreciate how good I

1101
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: was in Detroit because we weren't winning. And so the

1102
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: one thing I learned from this process of writing a

1103
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: book is when we have success, we got to celebrate that.

1104
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: There's a story. I um, two thousand All Star Game,

1105
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: so nine we had a lockout, so we didn't have

1106
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: an All Star Game two thousand in San Francisco. We're there,

1107
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: we play or I guess in Oakland the Old Oracle Arena.

1108
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: It's such a such a stupid story. So I'm thinking, Okay,

1109
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: Jordan's gone because in the All Star Game with Joey,

1110
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: we had to defer to him you know what I I mean,

1111
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: you just know what said it, but you just felt

1112
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: like we gotta get the especially in ninety eight where

1113
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: Kobe was there, like they're going we had to like

1114
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: which I got issues with the whole um the documentary.

1115
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: It was a great documentary, but it made it seem

1116
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: like I was scared, like we were on the bench

1117
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 1: and what happened was in that game. Penny was hurt

1118
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: that year. He sat out the whole year, came back

1119
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 1: for two games, played in the All Star Game. He

1120
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 1: had GP Gardener. It was it was Kobe and m J.

1121
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: And then people forget Garnette was a three early in

1122
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: his career, so Gardnette and I matched up. So Penny

1123
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: didn't want to handle the ball because he's not healthy

1124
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 1: and he's got to go against GP. So I'm bringing

1125
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: the ball out. I was point forward, so I'm always

1126
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: back in transition. We're farting around. It's three on one.

1127
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: GP got Kobe and guard that he's throwing lives. I'm back,

1128
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: so I'm not trying to be in the frame on

1129
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: these alleues in the time. I don't like 'all, y'all

1130
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: gotta get back because I'm a goot hear the do

1131
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: he's young boys, you know, And so the way it looked,

1132
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: it looked like I was like scared of and I

1133
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,479
Speaker 1: had great respect for Kobe, but I wasn't. I wasn't

1134
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,959
Speaker 1: scared of him then, you know, so two thousand All Star,

1135
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: so you know, the trainers always would carry her. I

1136
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: had contacts then, so my trainer, Mike, after an hour

1137
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: in Detroit, would always keep contacts, so if I ran out,

1138
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: I would just go get something from him. So I

1139
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: only had one pair of contacts. In the day of

1140
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: the game, I one contact ripped and so I'm like,

1141
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: do I play with no contacts? I put one in

1142
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: and now I'm all screwed up. During the game, I

1143
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 1: threw a live to events. I promise you I threw

1144
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: it over the backboard even like it's so you know,

1145
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: and I remember something I told Hip England, who's you know,

1146
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: you know Chip from San Antonio. I told Chip, I saw, man,

1147
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 1: it's always next year, like I'll wear you know next year.

1148
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 1: And so next year didn't happen. And and so I

1149
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: say all that to say that you gotta celebrate when

1150
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: we have success and life's not guaranteed, and we got

1151
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: to celebrate each other and celebrate yourself. I didn't do

1152
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: that when I was in Detroit because to me, I

1153
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 1: was chasing Isaiah until we won. I didn't give myself

1154
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: permission to celebrate. And so being able to go back

1155
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: now and like, you know what I actually was all

1156
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: right because I don't. Here's the thing, you guys, remember

1157
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: that I remember trying to guard Kobe at thirty eight

1158
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 1: with a bad wheel. I remember like standing in the

1159
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: corner waiting for the ball to come to me. Like

1160
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: that's what I remember. I don't. I didn't remember those

1161
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: those those those years. And so the exercise of not

1162
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: just the dark but also the light, the good, the positive,

1163
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: and and just appreciating that. As you said, a lot

1164
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:54,479
Speaker 1: of people remember them full speed crossovers, trust me, coming

1165
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: at you the crossover pip I mean when he got

1166
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: Pippo and banged on it. Pepper was too light, man,

1167
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 1: he was like to fifteen, I could just right. For

1168
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: all you young people, google him, n google him. What

1169
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: was the playoff experience like with Steve Nash? That was

1170
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: the Western Finals round? Yeah, you played was in you

1171
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: in Orlando? We had a good year. You know, it

1172
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 1: was weird because we had as great as Shock was

1173
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: and as great as Steve where they didn't really mix.

1174
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 1: And so when Shaq left and Amori was healthy, and

1175
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 1: then Alvin Gentry was coaching us, we we had a

1176
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 1: really good season. We were third seed, and um we

1177
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 1: beat Portland, beat San Antonio, and then we faced that

1178
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 1: l A. They got us the first two games in

1179
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: l A. We beat him the first the next two

1180
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: games and the game five, man like, we're right there

1181
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: on the roads. J Rich banks in the read to

1182
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: tie it. In overtime, Kobe gets a ball three pointer

1183
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 1: the one time he missed. What time he missed? A

1184
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: shoutow me like in that situation. Uh, he air balled.

1185
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 1: I'm writing this like I'm right there in his face.

1186
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 1: He airballs, and but metal World Peace gets to rebound.

1187
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: Ja Rich didn't box him out. He tipping and he

1188
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: they win game five, and I don't know if emotionally

1189
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:29,919
Speaker 1: we recovered. And then Kobe in game six, I mean,

1190
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: he started, dude, and so here's the thing bad. So

1191
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 1: he you know, he's doing he's doing this and he

1192
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: oldways look with Kobe like like with Lebron, like when

1193
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 1: I got it Lebron. Back then, my attitude was I'm

1194
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: not gonna crash the offensive class and we shoot. I'm

1195
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: gonna find him. I'm not gonna let him get out

1196
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: in the open full head of steam. So I'm not

1197
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 1: gonna let him turn the corner and go right and

1198
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: get to the rim. I'm gonna make him make contested

1199
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 1: jump shots. And I'm not gonna foul if he posts

1200
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 1: me up. Don't help because he beat you with his

1201
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: passing as much as so, like you know, he had

1202
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: a game play and I actually did. Okay, I mean

1203
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: Lebron would have moments, but like you know, I didn't

1204
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 1: have a strategy for like I I didn't know what

1205
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 1: to do, and so sometimes man like I would just

1206
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: he go up the shot, I'll just hit his arm, like,

1207
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: just hit his arm and just like you know. And

1208
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: the problem too is I couldn't go back at him

1209
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: because that my role. You know in Phoenix, Nash had

1210
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 1: the ball in his hand. So I'm stuck in the

1211
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: corner and I'm not you know, I'm not a spot

1212
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: up shooter. Um, so he was hard to defend. But

1213
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: in that moment, man, like a couple of times I

1214
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 1: guess right like I'm like, like he's gonna go right,

1215
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 1: he's gonna shot fake. I'm not. You know, I know

1216
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 1: what he's gonna do. And I'm like, and you know,

1217
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: you know how hard it is saying this when you're

1218
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: squirre it off against him. You're saying that in your

1219
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: head as yours. You knew. I knew he wanted to

1220
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 1: go right, and I knew he had a great ball fake,

1221
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: and I've seen him do it before. And so he

1222
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: one shot right front of our bench. We tapped Alvin

1223
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 1: on them, and so he hit a touchhot on me

1224
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: before that, and I tried to deny him the ball,

1225
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 1: but he gets it. He goes right. I go with him.

1226
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: He shot face. I don't go for it. I actually

1227
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: get closer into him. I go up when he goes up.

1228
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: You know how hard it is to do with shot

1229
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 1: fake reload from three. And I couldn't be any closer

1230
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: to him without found him. Man, this dude, Like I

1231
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: was like, I mean, I was actually proud of the

1232
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: defense I played, like I'm thinking, I couldn't have done

1233
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 1: anything other than just prevent him fro getting the ball.

1234
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: But he was the best player I played against. And

1235
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: and I say this respectfully with George, I didn't guard

1236
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: Jordan's and I matched up. But the best player that

1237
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: I played against hands down with Kobe. And one of

1238
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: my regrets, it's in the book and oh seven, When

1239
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 1: I left Orlando, Phil Jackson called me three No what

1240
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: that was? That was in Detroit true that I don't

1241
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: know how true that was. I've heard that, but I

1242
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 1: don't know how true that was. But when I left Orlando,

1243
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 1: Phil call three times. I didn't call him back, and

1244
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, it's it's over in l A. Kobe,

1245
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, he's talking about buying them, and you know

1246
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: they you know, they're imploding in the playoffs and all

1247
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: I got. I just thought the run was over in

1248
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: l A. And I end up going to Phoenix in

1249
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: part to stay healthy. But I think Phil would have

1250
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: played me more more suited for my game. He liked

1251
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: tall guys that could handle, and I think he wanted

1252
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 1: me to come in and kind of be a primary

1253
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: ball handler or whatever. Me sitting in the corner was

1254
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: not my game, you know what I'm saying. I mean,

1255
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 1: I played it, I did my role, but like that

1256
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: wasn't who I was. And so I think now, like

1257
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 1: man if I had just that would have been interesting.

1258
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 1: We were number one in the West. But then they

1259
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: traded for Gasol and then later that that season and

1260
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 1: that was a game changer for Um for the Lakers.

1261
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: And then you know, you went on and had a

1262
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: great run, played with some some great teammates. Anyone, who's

1263
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: your favorite teammate during your career? Damn Man, nineteen years Man,

1264
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: that's that's run. I think in Detroit, Lindsay Allen, those

1265
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: are my guys. We came in together, you know, and

1266
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 1: in Orlando was tough because I didn't play a whole

1267
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: lot in Orlando, Jamir Um good people. You know. Actually

1268
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: it's crazy. You know, you know who bonded who? And

1269
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: I bonded a lot because we were rehabbing all the

1270
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: damn time was Pat Garrity. We like, we were hurt

1271
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 1: two years, so we spent a lot of time together.

1272
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: You know, I enjoyed play. I mean, we didn't hang out.

1273
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: We didn't you know, I didn't partake, but I enjoyed

1274
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 1: bad Man like mad I'm telling you, like, just in

1275
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 1: terms of teammates doing whatever is needed, the ultimate teammates,

1276
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like people don't get a

1277
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: leve credit for that. I'll give you enough credit for that,

1278
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 1: but like you should have started in that like with

1279
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 1: the Clippers that year, you know, but he came off

1280
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 1: the bench. You never never made him. I remember seeing

1281
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: I remember seeing you at the facility, like you didn't

1282
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 1: have I don't think you you had. It was like

1283
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: late too, might have been like August September and you

1284
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: were unsure where you're gonna sign and you weren't there

1285
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: just playing pickup ball every day. And then you playing

1286
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: so well they brought you in. But like just like

1287
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 1: whatever's needed, you know what I'm saying, didn't complain, just

1288
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 1: did what he had to do. If something popped off.

1289
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:37,640
Speaker 1: He was always in it, like he was there for

1290
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: your teammate, like and so. But there's so many, man,

1291
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: you know, Nash was fun to play with. Barbosa was

1292
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 1: a good guy. Those finished years were fun. Um. I

1293
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 1: don't know if I had a favorite, but you know,

1294
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 1: Shock was fun. Shack was crazy. Remember the Shock and

1295
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,680
Speaker 1: lou Armington back and forth. Remember when Shaq took his

1296
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: mouthpiece and put in his tights during shoot around. I

1297
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 1: was just talking with Shaq about that last night, so

1298
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 1: we talked about it on the show. Is the craziest man. Hey, man, Shack.

1299
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many stories mad people. He remember

1300
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 1: writing on loose bike button naked. I'm an out Shack

1301
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 1: right here. But I remember one time we it's so

1302
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: bad man. One time, man Shack so bad man. I

1303
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: don't even I can't repeat that bad Come on, you

1304
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 1: already started, man. We know We're in the showers after

1305
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 1: practice and he goes to Jay Rich, Ja, Rich, you

1306
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 1: got a fat ass man. I'm like, I'm like, how

1307
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 1: do you come back? How do I What did Jay

1308
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 1: Risch do? Man? You know what I'm saying. Shack was

1309
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 1: just he was funny, he was nasty, crazy kid. He uh,

1310
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: and we had put Terry Porter man he had Remember

1311
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 1: we used to say that Bill Carwriter average what he

1312
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: used to break his stats. So Terry Porter. We're in

1313
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 1: a film session and uh, we're watching film in the

1314
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: film room and he stopped film say Shock, like, don't

1315
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 1: you think you could come over from the weak side

1316
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 1: and maybe blocked the shot right here? And Shock would

1317
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 1: be like, TP, I'm top five all time in the

1318
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: NBA shot blocks. I think I know when I can

1319
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:34,560
Speaker 1: block a shot, like like just like the disrespect, the craziness,

1320
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: that's so calm. About a couple of times he showed

1321
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 1: up late. It's bad too, but he showed up late

1322
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 1: for prop and nobody he was. It's just shot. It

1323
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: was shot. He shot late, and like coach, I'm sorry, man.

1324
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 1: The passport truck tipped over on fifty one. Man. They

1325
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: were Mexicans everywhere. That's why I'm late to like he

1326
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: was just like he was, man, it was it was

1327
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 1: constant human man. And and uh he just kept it light.

1328
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: He was. It was crazy. We didn't make the playoffs,

1329
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 1: but you know he was in the time. I can't

1330
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:09,640
Speaker 1: believe I told our stories, man, every day, every day

1331
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 1: something Bill Carry used to coach the bigs. Bill, I

1332
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 1: average so and so and so and so and so

1333
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 1: ago against you in this game. And my career number

1334
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 1: from high school to college and the pros even break

1335
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 1: all the ship. I'm seventy percent lifetime from the field.

1336
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: Give me the damn ball middle state high school. I

1337
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 1: can't in the car, right, I have a thirty in

1338
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 1: ten against him, Like he just just unbelievable. He was unbelievable,

1339
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: just like he shot Mumble under his breath was fast

1340
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: forward co owner with the Hawks. How did you happen

1341
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 1: to land that spot. Congratulations. By the way, I appreciate that.

1342
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,640
Speaker 1: When we were in l A. I wasn't playing. I

1343
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 1: was hurt. Um. Matter of fact, it was that December

1344
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 1: when you guys, when we were undefeated. We had a

1345
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: great month I had. I figured I was in l A.

1346
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: My family was a Fenish, so once a month I

1347
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 1: would have dinner with this duke Alum, a guy named

1348
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,759
Speaker 1: Bruce carsh And Bruce actually is one of the partners

1349
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 1: with the Warriors, and uh, he's a d grad. So

1350
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:13,360
Speaker 1: we were talking about the Clippers and I was like,

1351
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 1: you know, I think they might they might be in play. Um,

1352
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: they may. I'm here and they may have to sell

1353
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: the team for state tax reasons. So we kind of

1354
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: concocted this whole, this this plan that we knew Adam

1355
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 1: was going to be commissioner the next year. All three

1356
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 1: of us do grads. Let's meet with Adam and see

1357
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 1: if we can get in through the you know, maybe

1358
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 1: buy a piece of the team with the chance to

1359
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:38,200
Speaker 1: buy it all later down the road. And then the

1360
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:42,760
Speaker 1: next year everything employes. And so Bruce brought in a guy,

1361
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: Tony Wrestler because he knew now it was going to

1362
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 1: be an open auction when the team was for sale,

1363
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 1: and uh, we've been at one point two billion dollars.

1364
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 1: And funny story, So I'm in New York with Bruce

1365
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 1: carsh Tony's in l a roll on speaker phone and

1366
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: we're on the phone. They're gonna get mad, and I

1367
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 1: told the story. We're on the phone and we're like, okay,

1368
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 1: one point two billion is gonna be our deal. That's

1369
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 1: something that's for the Clippers. That's to buy the Clippers,

1370
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 1: which we were outbid by eight hundred millions Steve Bomber.

1371
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 1: But we're on the phone, they're like all right. So

1372
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,600
Speaker 1: Tony says, I'll put it in half a billion, and

1373
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:21,600
Speaker 1: then Bruce says, I'll put in half a billion, and

1374
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 1: then they look at me. So I swear I said

1375
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: I got five on it, like you know, just you know,

1376
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: I was being funny, and uh but I told him

1377
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: my amount and they just wanted to know that I

1378
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 1: and I was gonna put something in and you have

1379
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: to put something in. So but that didn't work. Um,

1380
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:44,520
Speaker 1: the Hawks came up right after similar circumstances, some racial overtones,

1381
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 1: some emails, so on and so forth. And I ended

1382
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: up getting Tony and convinced him on Atlanta. You know,

1383
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 1: I think the perception of Atlanta historically the franchise was just, yeah,

1384
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:00,000
Speaker 1: it just wasn't good. You played there, so it was,

1385
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 1: and so I felt like for me, my selling point was,

1386
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 1: we got a chance to coming in that value. You

1387
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: got a great city, international airport, quality of life, guys

1388
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 1: like to be in Atlanta. Cost of living is low.

1389
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. All of that, we got

1390
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 1: a chance to come in and change that narrative and

1391
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: build an emotional connection with the franchise. If you're from

1392
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: Boston and you're a basketball fan, there's a nine chance

1393
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,640
Speaker 1: your Celtics fan. But if you're from Atlanta you might

1394
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: be a Bulls fan. You might be It's so transient.

1395
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: People aren't really from there. So you know, we came

1396
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: in and you know, we do the arena practice facility,

1397
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: you know, try to create an atmosphere, try to understand Atlanta,

1398
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 1: embrace what Atlanta is. The previous ownership group I thought

1399
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 1: it was too too much diversity to black, and so

1400
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,720
Speaker 1: we've tried to embrace who we are. I love when

1401
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 1: you go to a game in Atlanta, You've got people

1402
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:00,680
Speaker 1: from all walks of life, you know, different political different ethnicities,

1403
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 1: different gender orientation, all their supporting the team. But we're

1404
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:07,800
Speaker 1: building that, you know, we're we're trying to build it.

1405
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 1: And Trey Young having a young star, Uh it's helpful,

1406
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 1: but um, but yeah, so we're changing that. We we

1407
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've been to a game in Atlanta,

1408
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:21,559
Speaker 1: I know, I know you have. It's a party man

1409
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 1: like man, it's it's a party of our game. We

1410
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:26,680
Speaker 1: got concerts. We got to change as a partner with

1411
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 1: the G League team. The food is unbelievable. The food

1412
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 1: we got sweet sweet, we got amenities. Were trying to

1413
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 1: create an environment there. Barbershop we gotta kill the Mike

1414
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 1: got a barbershop that it's dead space that you could

1415
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,640
Speaker 1: not sell and so we said, let's make it a barbershop.

1416
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 1: We got a DJ and then it's a whole energy

1417
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 1: in their whole vibe. And so just embracing Atlanta. We

1418
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 1: try to reflect Atlanta and all that we do. And

1419
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,599
Speaker 1: we got a lot more work to do, but excited

1420
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 1: about the progress we've made. Man, coming down the home

1421
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,560
Speaker 1: stretch post career, you've been very successful. What are some

1422
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:03,920
Speaker 1: other thing you're into outside of ownership of that Hawks.

1423
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 1: I got a lot on my plate, man, maybe a

1424
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:09,760
Speaker 1: little too much. But I'm on the board of Campbell Sup.

1425
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 1: So we you know, in our portfolio we have everything

1426
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 1: from Cape Cod Chips, Kettle Chips, um obviously Campbell Sup,

1427
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 1: Chunky Chunky Soup. I'm on the board of Empire State

1428
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 1: Realty Trust. We own the Empire State Building. We love

1429
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:29,800
Speaker 1: to have you guys come do a show Empire State Build.

1430
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,439
Speaker 1: I personally hold that road. We can make that happen.

1431
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 1: It's on me. We make that happen. We be honored. Um.

1432
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 1: I um managing director of USA Basketball. So I'll be

1433
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 1: picking the Olympic team. Um. And you know Steve Kerr's

1434
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 1: our head coach for the next next cycle. What else

1435
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: am I doing. I'm on the board of Duke Shoes

1436
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:54,439
Speaker 1: Coming Back Out, Shoes Coming Back Out. A matter of fact,

1437
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 1: this is a partnership right here with two State, So

1438
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 1: it's a partnership. He's a be coming out. He wore

1439
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: these the g H two's on, no on, all eyes

1440
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 1: on me. Yeah, and so so that really helped with

1441
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 1: the shoot. But yeah, just you know, keeping a busy man,

1442
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 1: we were building downtown Atlanta. We're pointing four billion dollars

1443
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:19,600
Speaker 1: in the downtown Atlanta, and so trying to do like

1444
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 1: an l A live kind of in downtown Atlanta. So

1445
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 1: just staying busy man, you know, doing TV as well,

1446
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 1: trying to be like, y'all love it. Is it true?

1447
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 1: Anita Baker introduced you into me a kind of yeah,

1448
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:35,839
Speaker 1: yeah kind of. So so Isaiah has the jersey retired,

1449
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 1: and I need a baker scenes the national anthem at

1450
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: the jersey at the game. So afterwards there was a reception.

1451
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: I me didn't need a baker. So she and her

1452
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 1: husband so she's like, you know, so I know you

1453
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 1: gotta go. I know you like breaking all the hearts

1454
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 1: and all this, and I mean I'm just like, yeah,

1455
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 1: I can't find I'm struggling. I wasn't really struggled. I

1456
01:18:56,200 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 1: was like, I'm struggling, you know that, you know. So

1457
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 1: so the next week she was at the Sole Train

1458
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: Awards and she met to me and to me, it was,

1459
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 1: you know, from Windsor, which is right across the river

1460
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 1: from Detroit, big fan of a nitter. So she was

1461
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 1: telling her this and he was I got just the

1462
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:17,559
Speaker 1: guy for you. So she kind of she planted the seed.

1463
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:20,560
Speaker 1: I ended up connecting with to me, you know, a

1464
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 1: couple of months later. But yeah, you know, it's a

1465
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:25,200
Speaker 1: good story to say, A need a hook to say.

1466
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 1: It's largely your oldest daughters in m m A. As

1467
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: a father, what is that like watching your daughter punched

1468
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 1: people in the face and get punched you have, you

1469
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:45,680
Speaker 1: have girls, you two boys with three boys. Um, so

1470
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 1: she's you know, she started doing jiu jitsu, and as

1471
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:53,519
Speaker 1: a parent, you think, okay, girl, young lady getting to

1472
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 1: go off of college, learned self defense. That's a good thing.

1473
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,200
Speaker 1: But that just kept going, kept going. And so right

1474
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 1: before COVID, she's like, Dad, I think I want to fight.

1475
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 1: So I got a buddy who's the general council at UFC.

1476
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 1: So I took her to a fight and we're sitting

1477
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 1: up close. I'm thinking, you know, she sees up close,

1478
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 1: she won't want to do it. I'm you know. So

1479
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:17,439
Speaker 1: we get there in North Carolina, we go to the fight,

1480
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 1: we fly home that night, we get into two am.

1481
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, Mila, what do you think. She's like, Dad,

1482
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:28,080
Speaker 1: I could be a champion. And I was like the backfire,

1483
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:30,720
Speaker 1: like the player didn't work, but she kept going and

1484
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:37,760
Speaker 1: she fought last She fought last October. And I mean

1485
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 1: she's passionate about it. And you know, like if somebody,

1486
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:42,240
Speaker 1: if your parents tried to tell you couldn't play basketball,

1487
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 1: you gotta support your kids whatever they want to do.

1488
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 1: So let me tell you so to me and I.

1489
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 1: So she goes to the fight. She goes early. We

1490
01:20:50,240 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 1: drive from Orlando to Lakeland, Florida. By the hour drive,

1491
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:55,719
Speaker 1: we don't say a word in a car. There's no music,

1492
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,800
Speaker 1: no nothing on the rate. We're not saying that. There's

1493
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 1: a nervous energy. We get to the fight. There's a

1494
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:06,920
Speaker 1: bar man. We probably each had about eight rum coach,

1495
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 1: you just had to by the time she came on.

1496
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: She comes out. Her her walkout music was Rick Rocks

1497
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 1: feeling Good, The Devil was The Devil is a Live.

1498
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:20,960
Speaker 1: So she comes out, you know, but we're like, now,

1499
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 1: we're like, this's your first time actually seeing it, first

1500
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 1: time seeing it. So she gets in the ring. She

1501
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 1: goes in first, the young lady she's fighting, who's fought before,

1502
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 1: who looks like she's been in some fights, you know,

1503
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:35,519
Speaker 1: And so we're a little nervous about but like she

1504
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 1: gets she comes with studs and her ears and that's

1505
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 1: a no no. So they can't get them out. And

1506
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:43,680
Speaker 1: so they're going through all this and trying to get

1507
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:46,640
Speaker 1: them out. It's been ten minutes. So now we're kind

1508
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,679
Speaker 1: of mad. It's the tack that yeah, that they're stalling.

1509
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:51,680
Speaker 1: So now to me, you know, I won't repeat with

1510
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 1: to me, it was saying, but it's what they say

1511
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:57,479
Speaker 1: in Memphis a lot and so um and so anyway,

1512
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 1: she gets in the ring, she chokes her out with

1513
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:02,320
Speaker 1: fifteen at these seconds, and uh, you know, so she's

1514
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 1: into it, man, and you know, what do you do? Man?

1515
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:11,800
Speaker 1: You know? But but she and she and she and

1516
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 1: you you know, I mean, she's quiet, sweet, kind like

1517
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:17,880
Speaker 1: the last person you would think. But dude, she goes

1518
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 1: six days a week. She teaches it, she loves it.

1519
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 1: She's a brown belt like she's she wants to fight,

1520
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:24,760
Speaker 1: she wants to try to go for it. She wants

1521
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:26,920
Speaker 1: to open up gems down the road. So she's got

1522
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 1: a plan and you know, we'll see what happens. You

1523
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 1: were always forward thinking in basketball, so much that you

1524
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 1: didn't have an agent. What did that? Where did that

1525
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:37,720
Speaker 1: idea come from? And you were able to be successful.

1526
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:43,960
Speaker 1: I realized early on that the NBA is a global

1527
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 1: marketing and public relations firm. That's the Skies as a league.

1528
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 1: We went to China. Remember we went to China, and

1529
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 1: we're over there and people knew who we were. We

1530
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 1: go places recognize us, and that's because that's what the

1531
01:22:57,439 --> 01:23:03,160
Speaker 1: NBA does. And so I felt like I needed an

1532
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 1: attorney who can negotiate my contracts. But all the marketing

1533
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 1: opportunities I was coming from the league that was coming

1534
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 1: from different, you know, because the league's pushing young players

1535
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,400
Speaker 1: and I was delivering early on. So why am I

1536
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 1: gonna pay somebody? And then why am I gonna let

1537
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:24,600
Speaker 1: them own that relationship and leverage it. I want to

1538
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:27,479
Speaker 1: sit with with Coca Cola's right, I want to sit

1539
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:29,920
Speaker 1: with nest Lee. I want to sit with and talk

1540
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 1: about marketing plans, sit with the ad agency. A lot

1541
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 1: of times agents might leverage that, you know for another CLIs.

1542
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 1: So you know, I got hurt. All that momentum kind

1543
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 1: of went away, but it was invaluable experience, like having

1544
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:49,640
Speaker 1: an office, having employees doing evaluations, raises um, sitting in

1545
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:52,800
Speaker 1: meetings talking about strategy, like I'm doing all this while

1546
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 1: I'm playing, and it just helped, you know, help me

1547
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 1: think about and learn about other things. So you know,

1548
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:00,640
Speaker 1: it was fun and I had a good time. And

1549
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 1: you know, maybe if I had the muscle of a

1550
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:05,640
Speaker 1: big time marketing firm, maybe things would have been a

1551
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:08,960
Speaker 1: little different. But I had well, I had a lot

1552
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:11,479
Speaker 1: of deals real quick before we get the quick hitters

1553
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 1: um situation. I thought you were gonna ask about like

1554
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:19,439
Speaker 1: Biggie Oh Ship, Yeah, because you remember you asked me

1555
01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 1: about that in l A. Yeah, I talked about in

1556
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:24,080
Speaker 1: the book. So yeah, the night that the night Biggie

1557
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:26,439
Speaker 1: pass talk to us about that. Damn I told you

1558
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 1: forgot about that. We just had We just had the

1559
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 1: photographer that go ahead. We're in l A here March eighth,

1560
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:37,240
Speaker 1: because he died on the knife. It's right March nine.

1561
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:41,120
Speaker 1: So we played the Clippers. We beat the Clippers. I

1562
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 1: did work, I did my thing, and and so to

1563
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:47,920
Speaker 1: me as label is throwing a party. So after the game,

1564
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: I go with Tamiya and I don't know if you

1565
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,320
Speaker 1: know Jay Brown. So Jay was at the label. We

1566
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 1: get in the limo. We go back to to to

1567
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:57,479
Speaker 1: me as Manager's house. First of all, I was the

1568
01:24:57,560 --> 01:24:59,880
Speaker 1: night that the first night I was the first time

1569
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:03,000
Speaker 1: heard hypnotize. It wasn't on the radio yet, but they

1570
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 1: had disk and they kept saying Detroit players. You know,

1571
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 1: Pick gave his mighty It's like run that back, running

1572
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:11,880
Speaker 1: back in the limo every time, you know, hearing that song.

1573
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:14,519
Speaker 1: So we go to the party to understand t and

1574
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 1: I've been together almost a year. It was the first

1575
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 1: time we had been out, and so we walk in

1576
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 1: and everybody turns like everybody's looking at us because they

1577
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:29,840
Speaker 1: hadn't seen us out, but everybody was there. We saw Biggie,

1578
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 1: we saw Pufficly. We weren't there long. We we might

1579
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 1: have been there ten minutes. We might have left five

1580
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:38,880
Speaker 1: minutes before they left, because when we left, they were

1581
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:42,080
Speaker 1: kind of near the door. And by the time we

1582
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:45,480
Speaker 1: got back to too minutes place and it already circulated

1583
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:49,920
Speaker 1: that he got killed. And so it was. It was crazy. Um,

1584
01:25:49,960 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 1: it was a little weird thinking that they were out

1585
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:55,920
Speaker 1: there because it was still all that East coast West

1586
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 1: coast stuff. And shoot, that even happened with to me,

1587
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:01,840
Speaker 1: like she got caught up, you know, we got caught

1588
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:06,839
Speaker 1: up in a situation. Um, she was in the studio

1589
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:10,479
Speaker 1: working on the album. Stevie J produced one of the songs.

1590
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:15,120
Speaker 1: And so before I got there, I'm with Jay Brown.

1591
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:18,680
Speaker 1: We're Benny Hannas and we're doing sake bombs and uh.

1592
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 1: And so we come to the studio. So before we

1593
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: get there, they were in the commons room, Stevie J

1594
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:29,680
Speaker 1: and his his his bodyguard and the outlaws or in

1595
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 1: the other studio, and so I guess they had words

1596
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:37,200
Speaker 1: in in the in the common area. Somebody pulled out

1597
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:40,120
Speaker 1: a gun. So this all happens before we get there.

1598
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:45,519
Speaker 1: So I show up, we get there, and ten minutes

1599
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 1: after we get there, police come in, rifles drawn, paint.

1600
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 1: We're all on the wall. I'm thinking, like this R

1601
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 1: and B session, Like I'm like that. And so anyway,

1602
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 1: I found out what happened, and you know, we we don't.

1603
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:01,599
Speaker 1: I don't know what ultimately happened. And but I say

1604
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,800
Speaker 1: that that was that was probably the summer of ninety seven.

1605
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 1: So but it was just still tension, you know what

1606
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:09,639
Speaker 1: I'm saying. And so when we saw Biggie and them

1607
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 1: at that, it was just like and I didn't think

1608
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:14,280
Speaker 1: what happened would happen, but it was just it was

1609
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 1: it was weird. Energy was off. Yeah, it was a

1610
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:20,280
Speaker 1: weird night. It was a weird night, real quick before

1611
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:22,639
Speaker 1: we get the quick hitters. The Grand Hill drink Sprite

1612
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:25,000
Speaker 1: I mean to me, you know that and Little Penny

1613
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:26,880
Speaker 1: or kind of what I remember growing up from like

1614
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 1: athletes and commercials. So how did that come about? In

1615
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:33,559
Speaker 1: the idea and behind the actual commercial? The idea it

1616
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:37,839
Speaker 1: was kind of genius. Man. It was basically, obey your thirst,

1617
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 1: don't let somebody tell you to drink it. And so

1618
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:44,200
Speaker 1: we're making fun of pitchment and uh and making fun

1619
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 1: of myself and so that was Sprite attaching himself, aligning

1620
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:54,120
Speaker 1: himself with the NBA. You know, I got involved with that.

1621
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: Um So we had a We had a great run,

1622
01:27:57,040 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 1: did a lot of fun commercials. Even did a shore

1623
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:06,760
Speaker 1: with Kobe um his second year. Crazy story. We did

1624
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:10,720
Speaker 1: a commercial together his second year during the season, I

1625
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 1: fly out to l A. Now I'm at this point,

1626
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:14,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm the big you know what I'm saying.

1627
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:17,680
Speaker 1: Like He's like, it's like Midway, it's before the All

1628
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:20,519
Speaker 1: Star break. When he's young, he's got a lot, he's

1629
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:22,720
Speaker 1: having a great second year. I fly out to l A.

1630
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 1: And we're gonna do this commercial where he's on He's

1631
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 1: on one shoulder, I'm on the other shoulder. And we're

1632
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 1: going back and forth with this kid. And so when

1633
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:37,519
Speaker 1: you do these commercials, you you approved the script before

1634
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 1: you commit. So the script has been approved for for

1635
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 1: a week. So I fly all the way out to

1636
01:28:43,160 --> 01:28:46,800
Speaker 1: l A on the off day. We get there and

1637
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:49,840
Speaker 1: the director comes in and he says, Kobe wants to

1638
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:53,200
Speaker 1: rewrite the script. And I'm like, he wants to what

1639
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 1: he wants to rewrite the script? I'm like, all right.

1640
01:28:57,840 --> 01:29:01,439
Speaker 1: So they come back like thirty five minutes. He got

1641
01:29:01,479 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: all the good lines. Now he had all the good lines,

1642
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:09,599
Speaker 1: and they're like and I'm like, look, na, I said, man, look,

1643
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:11,080
Speaker 1: I come all the way out here. This is what

1644
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 1: I agreed to if he wants to do this, I'm

1645
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:16,640
Speaker 1: looking back on the plane fly back, and so I mean,

1646
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:18,840
Speaker 1: while we're trailers right next week, he just could have

1647
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 1: gone and talked to each other. But but that was cold,

1648
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:25,639
Speaker 1: Like I kind of respect that he was bold enough

1649
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 1: to want to do that. And anyway, we went back.

1650
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 1: We did the script that we we agreed to. But yeah,

1651
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 1: the spray stuff, man, that was that was fun and

1652
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 1: and poking fun at people. Having pitchmen was the whole

1653
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:42,000
Speaker 1: premise behind the Sprat campaign. So so well, man, it's

1654
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:44,559
Speaker 1: been a great interview. Quick hitters. First thing to come

1655
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:48,479
Speaker 1: to mind. Let us know, duke all time starting five

1656
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:55,760
Speaker 1: including yourself, so you plus four all time dukes dukies. Man,

1657
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:57,719
Speaker 1: I gotta go with Later Man. He he did work.

1658
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,799
Speaker 1: He was killing the killer. He I think later top three,

1659
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 1: top five, maybe all time in college, just in terms

1660
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:09,040
Speaker 1: of his accomplishments. Later, I gotta go with I gotta

1661
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:11,599
Speaker 1: go with Johnny Dawkins because he kind of said people

1662
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 1: don't people don't appreciate how talented he was. You're gonna

1663
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:21,800
Speaker 1: get me in trouble, man, I'm gonna show the young

1664
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:24,720
Speaker 1: fellas some love. Ja Jayson Tatum. I think when it's

1665
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 1: all said and done, I think he's gonna be the best.

1666
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 1: And he might he might already be there. He I

1667
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 1: don't know if there was a more skilled guy coming

1668
01:30:32,439 --> 01:30:35,200
Speaker 1: in out of high school, had it all, you know,

1669
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: offensively that final spot. Kyrie. He was only there for

1670
01:30:40,640 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 1: nine days. And I know sometimes we claim him, sometimes

1671
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:48,759
Speaker 1: we don't, but talent there he was. He was Kyrie.

1672
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 1: Kyrie Dawkins yourself laterner Jason Tatum five n five Right there?

1673
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 1: What album can you listen to with no skips? I

1674
01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:06,760
Speaker 1: can't have your wife? No Brownie points here Biggie's first album?

1675
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:15,320
Speaker 1: Mm hmm uh point no, was it the Little Baby

1676
01:31:15,320 --> 01:31:18,400
Speaker 1: on the front. That's my first that's my favorite one

1677
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 1: right there. Yeah, I mean you kind of already missed

1678
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:22,439
Speaker 1: if you have a better story. But best Kobe or

1679
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:30,400
Speaker 1: MJ story off the court, Uh, Kobe probably, Like, um,

1680
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 1: I go up one night to me is living, she's

1681
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:38,559
Speaker 1: living on the Wheelshore Corridor, and I think we're engaged

1682
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:40,920
Speaker 1: at this point. And it's late, like I go to

1683
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:43,599
Speaker 1: the men's gym if U c l A maybe like midnight,

1684
01:31:44,280 --> 01:31:46,479
Speaker 1: and I'm and I'm I'm reading, I'm redoing my shots,

1685
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:49,680
Speaker 1: so I'm changing my mechanics and I'm just going in

1686
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 1: there to do like just some set shots by myself.

1687
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 1: And I go in there and Kobe's in there and

1688
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:58,519
Speaker 1: he's lathered up and he's got his guy and uh

1689
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:04,519
Speaker 1: so I'm down at the other end and he's like,

1690
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 1: you wanna play one on one? And I didn't because

1691
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:11,040
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm changing my shot, like I'm not I'm

1692
01:32:11,080 --> 01:32:14,200
Speaker 1: not there yet, but I'm like, I got it. I

1693
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:17,920
Speaker 1: got can't I can't say no? And uh we played

1694
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:21,120
Speaker 1: one on one and I'm telling you it was like

1695
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:25,240
Speaker 1: a game seven in like late July, like it was.

1696
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:27,719
Speaker 1: I don't think I played that intense in the summer.

1697
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:30,200
Speaker 1: And he was like he was, I mean, you know,

1698
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:34,479
Speaker 1: just what second years coming off his second year, drafted

1699
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 1: off his second year, and so like the work ethic

1700
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 1: and and how hard like up until then, man like

1701
01:32:43,080 --> 01:32:45,080
Speaker 1: I didn't really work on my game and I just

1702
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:48,360
Speaker 1: hooped to play pick up ball. And that summer was

1703
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:51,200
Speaker 1: when I started, Okay, I'm gonna start like working and

1704
01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 1: getting better and trying things. And and that was the

1705
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 1: hard part because I did it. I did it in

1706
01:32:57,160 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 1: ninety nine, and then after that, I never never worked

1707
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:02,320
Speaker 1: on my game in the summer because I was hurt.

1708
01:33:02,479 --> 01:33:05,960
Speaker 1: I was trying to get healthy and it finally got healthy.

1709
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:07,880
Speaker 1: And now I didn't touch a ball in the summer.

1710
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 1: So those Phoenix years, I didn't. I'm trying to preserve

1711
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:15,000
Speaker 1: my ankle. So the you know, going through having a strategy,

1712
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:17,840
Speaker 1: working on stuff, all of that. Like I enjoyed doing

1713
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 1: that um and a lot of it I got from

1714
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:23,840
Speaker 1: being like watching this kid, his kid younger than me, grinding,

1715
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:27,360
Speaker 1: like getting after it by himself. It's like a Friday night.

1716
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 1: I'm alright, I'm wiped up. I'm telling you know. You know,

1717
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:32,160
Speaker 1: I'm just wanting to go get some shots up late

1718
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:34,439
Speaker 1: at night, and he's in the gym going at it.

1719
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 1: And and so that was. That was a moment that

1720
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 1: that um that I remember. That was. I was like, man,

1721
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:46,120
Speaker 1: this kid, I remember my freshman or u C. So

1722
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 1: he used to be on campus all the time. People

1723
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:51,639
Speaker 1: see him normally during the day, at night working out playing.

1724
01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 1: It was and and you know, he impacted a whole

1725
01:33:54,320 --> 01:33:58,320
Speaker 1: generation now that they do that, they put that like

1726
01:33:58,360 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, back in the day, you might go and

1727
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:03,680
Speaker 1: five spots, five mates, got some shots up, you know

1728
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But like he put the work in

1729
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:09,639
Speaker 1: for sure. It's crazy question. But I know your game

1730
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:12,240
Speaker 1: and I just seen you play so much and I

1731
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:15,320
Speaker 1: relize you. But you have to cross someone to dunk

1732
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: on someone. But I've seen you do that too many

1733
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:20,680
Speaker 1: times in the same place. It was us go hand

1734
01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 1: in hand. Yeah, for you that go in there. But

1735
01:34:23,080 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 1: for the questions like no, maybe maybe the favorite someone

1736
01:34:27,320 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 1: you crossed up and dunked on. That was your that

1737
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 1: was the ship, that was your patent of thing. So

1738
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 1: you've got a lot of people on that list. It

1739
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:39,920
Speaker 1: was always it was always fun dunking on the kem back. Yeah,

1740
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:41,880
Speaker 1: I got him a couple of times. Very few people

1741
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:44,320
Speaker 1: got it. And he Um. I used to tell him,

1742
01:34:44,320 --> 01:34:46,599
Speaker 1: I'm a clown, I'm a climb mountain. Tumbo, I'm coming

1743
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:50,559
Speaker 1: and you don't know, you ain't gonna get me, and

1744
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:53,639
Speaker 1: uh and so that back and forth. Um. The thing

1745
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:58,880
Speaker 1: about my Tumbo in morning, they jumped for everything. And

1746
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:01,960
Speaker 1: even if they got jumped a the guys won't won't

1747
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:05,360
Speaker 1: come over. Shock, They won't come over, you know, they

1748
01:35:05,360 --> 01:35:07,640
Speaker 1: don't want to get posterized. But like Kim Bad, he

1749
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:11,120
Speaker 1: came every time, every time, and he he got got,

1750
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:14,640
Speaker 1: He got got, you know more than no question, no

1751
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:18,519
Speaker 1: question for sure. Uh, five dinner guests that are alive?

1752
01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:22,960
Speaker 1: Was that? Five dinner guests that are alive? You know what?

1753
01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:25,280
Speaker 1: You know? I was thinking, man for my my fifties,

1754
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 1: to get five, like five rappers that like I grew

1755
01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:35,360
Speaker 1: up and having them over for dinner like rock Kim

1756
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:40,400
Speaker 1: Cameras one came people don't know. You make beats, bro

1757
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:48,920
Speaker 1: all you that grand it's nice on the keys. I retired, man,

1758
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:50,720
Speaker 1: because you know, to me and said I was she

1759
01:35:51,160 --> 01:36:00,240
Speaker 1: called me quincy bones, start called me piss beats. She

1760
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:01,960
Speaker 1: was like, you know, because you know, she she's like,

1761
01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:04,559
Speaker 1: where's the melody? Like you know, I'm like, baby, look

1762
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,760
Speaker 1: look it's not It's r B is a different you know,

1763
01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:10,719
Speaker 1: but she her thing when she's spending too much time

1764
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:14,320
Speaker 1: doing it, for not getting to check, you know. But

1765
01:36:14,479 --> 01:36:16,720
Speaker 1: I just I love it, man, I love music. And

1766
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:18,760
Speaker 1: when I listened to a song, I don't listen to

1767
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:21,680
Speaker 1: the lyrics. I listened to the music, like what what's

1768
01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:24,840
Speaker 1: the drum track? What's what's the baseline doing? What's so?

1769
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 1: You know, I retired from making beats, but yeah, rhapsody up.

1770
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 1: In fact, I went to the studio with Ninfe Wonder

1771
01:36:32,439 --> 01:36:35,720
Speaker 1: back in the day and I was trying to I

1772
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:39,080
Speaker 1: was trying to chop to shop Shalam not Shalamar climax

1773
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:43,439
Speaker 1: um song, and I was I couldn't get what I wanted.

1774
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:45,639
Speaker 1: So I put on to me to put on still,

1775
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:48,880
Speaker 1: and I chopped up the beginning part and put some

1776
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:51,200
Speaker 1: drums over it, and she heard it she was in

1777
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:52,760
Speaker 1: the studio and she went in and put it on

1778
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 1: her mix tape before she before she blew up, and

1779
01:36:57,160 --> 01:36:59,599
Speaker 1: so but I always love music. So you get five

1780
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:02,080
Speaker 1: legends on your birthday? Yeah, I gotta I gotta figure

1781
01:37:02,080 --> 01:37:06,559
Speaker 1: out five rappers that I grew up that were like

1782
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:08,960
Speaker 1: and I know those three. I gotta figure the other two.

1783
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:11,520
Speaker 1: But it'd be fun to bring him in and just

1784
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:20,920
Speaker 1: just chop it up with him. Trick question. Okay, who

1785
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:23,560
Speaker 1: would you like to see on All the Smoke? But

1786
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:26,040
Speaker 1: but who would I like to see on our show?

1787
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:29,680
Speaker 1: But you have to help us get your answer on

1788
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:36,240
Speaker 1: the show. Get that person on the show, Obama, I

1789
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:38,760
Speaker 1: think that'd be cool. You heard what I said, though, right,

1790
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:42,080
Speaker 1: you have to help us get that person on the show.

1791
01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if somebody else, think of somebody else, Grant,

1792
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:50,479
Speaker 1: if anyone could probably get up, probably Silver has been

1793
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:54,960
Speaker 1: all right, Yeah, yeah, I think we can get that done.

1794
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:57,360
Speaker 1: I want to ask him, can I get some of

1795
01:37:57,360 --> 01:37:59,280
Speaker 1: my money back? Now? He looked at everything that's going

1796
01:37:59,320 --> 01:38:01,679
Speaker 1: on and looked at the brawl, like, do you really

1797
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:03,719
Speaker 1: think I should have took my money? Was at work?

1798
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:06,040
Speaker 1: I want to ask him that seriously, but Adam always

1799
01:38:06,080 --> 01:38:09,680
Speaker 1: says this. I'm repeating with all. Adam says, but he

1800
01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:17,680
Speaker 1: works for me. He says that we appreciate that, but

1801
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:20,599
Speaker 1: i'd be nice. That'd be good. I think he would

1802
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 1: do it too. You got something for you, bro, can't

1803
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:25,160
Speaker 1: let you leave, and he had it. All the smoke

1804
01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:28,320
Speaker 1: gear from my new UH line is dropping. Where can

1805
01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:30,600
Speaker 1: they get that? All the smoke dot store If you

1806
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:33,000
Speaker 1: didn't know, now you know, go grab something. You might

1807
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:34,680
Speaker 1: not look as good as us in it, but you

1808
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,040
Speaker 1: can try. You can try. Yeah, definitely, Well, man, we

1809
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,000
Speaker 1: appreciate you. We want to make sure you know how

1810
01:38:40,040 --> 01:38:43,080
Speaker 1: important you wore to us man as a as a mentor,

1811
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:44,880
Speaker 1: as an athlete, the way you live your life off

1812
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:47,599
Speaker 1: the court as well. I mean, you've just been that dude,

1813
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:50,519
Speaker 1: and we really feel like you know, you're still one

1814
01:38:50,560 --> 01:38:52,599
Speaker 1: of the greatest players of all time, and so we

1815
01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:55,240
Speaker 1: really appreciate your time stopping Bibe and chase your ask

1816
01:38:55,320 --> 01:38:58,120
Speaker 1: for three years. I finally got you. Make sure you

1817
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:01,040
Speaker 1: check out this book out now. Get the book, get

1818
01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:07,000
Speaker 1: everywhere Amazon, book Stories by the book Story Game out now.

1819
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:09,680
Speaker 1: Happy you Finally, I appreciate you all man, and I

1820
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:11,800
Speaker 1: admire what y'all are doing. Y'all. Y'all killing it, man,

1821
01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:16,519
Speaker 1: and the feelings mutual so here. Like I said, the

1822
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 1: fact that you got to unload, that's a heavy way

1823
01:39:19,040 --> 01:39:23,280
Speaker 1: to carry. And you guys need to write books at

1824
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:26,040
Speaker 1: some point when at the times right, tell y'all got

1825
01:39:26,120 --> 01:39:29,160
Speaker 1: stories that definitely completely everybody. You know what I'm saying.

1826
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:32,200
Speaker 1: I'm telling y'alluzzle pieces together with Gee, thank you man,

1827
01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:35,960
Speaker 1: I appreciate. This is how I know. It's something some

1828
01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:39,040
Speaker 1: feelings expressing here. You ain't get no fresh cut on

1829
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: the bone the coach. No, I wonder that was on purpose?

1830
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:45,080
Speaker 1: It was, trust me, I know like it was. It

1831
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:51,720
Speaker 1: was intentional, you know, symbolism that yes, I can't wait.

1832
01:39:52,040 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 1: I'll tell y'all should write a book that's a rap rant. Hell.

1833
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:57,840
Speaker 1: You can catch some Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the hard

1834
01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:01,760
Speaker 1: platform Black Effects. See you all next week. Peace, go

1835
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:04,919
Speaker 1: get the book. This is all a smoke A production

1836
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:07,840
Speaker 1: of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership

1837
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:08,520
Speaker 1: with Showtime