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Speaker 2: We're still absorbing all of the news we got on Wednesday,
Speaker 2: because boy was there a lot of it, not just
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's trip to Washington, but leadership elections in the
Speaker 2: Senate and in the House where they have renominated Mike
Speaker 2: Johnson to turn take another turn at the role of speaker.
Speaker 2: Now that we know, which also was made official yesterday,
Speaker 2: the House will be maintaining maintained with Republican control. They
Speaker 2: have retaken the majority or kept it going rather, according
Speaker 2: to multiple networks and the Associated Press, so the assumed
Speaker 2: to be speaker in the next Congress. Mike Johnson was
Speaker 2: feeling pretty good yesterday.
Speaker 3: The theme that you'll hear over and over from all
Speaker 3: of our members across the conference is that we are
Speaker 3: unified and energized and ready to go. Serious times call
Speaker 3: for serious leadership. It's going to be a policy agenda
Speaker 3: driven administration and a Congress and you've heard us say
Speaker 3: many times it could be. I believe it will be
Speaker 3: the most consequential Congress of the modern era, most consequential
Speaker 3: administration of the modern era, because frankly, we have to
Speaker 3: fix almost every area of public policy.
Speaker 4: But of course we need to finish this session of Congress,
Speaker 4: and we do have questions about the lame duck session
Speaker 4: and what it might bring. That's where we start our
Speaker 4: conversation with the gentleman from Kentucky, Congressman Andy Barr, Kentucky's
Speaker 4: sixth member of the Republican Conference. Great to have you,
Speaker 4: Baxter on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4: I want to begin with the funding deadline, that is
Speaker 4: on December twentieth. You and your colleagues need to figure
Speaker 4: out how to keep the lights on going into the
Speaker 4: new year, and there's an argument about whether that should
Speaker 4: last into March, or in fact go further into September
Speaker 4: to buy Donald Trump time to enact agenda, not saddle
Speaker 4: the new president with a funding debate as soon as
Speaker 4: he gets into office. Your colleague from New York, Mark Malnaro,
Speaker 4: professed his preference for going later into the year with
Speaker 4: the stopgap, but Congressman, I know that that is problematic
Speaker 4: for members of the Freedom Caucus and for a lot
Speaker 4: of defense hawks. Where are you on this?
Speaker 5: I think we need to clear the decks. We need
Speaker 5: to get the spending bill done. The House has passed
Speaker 5: seventy percent of all of the spending for this fiscal year,
Speaker 5: so we have about.
Speaker 6: Thirty percent to go.
Speaker 5: The Senate hasn't passed a single appropriations bill. But I
Speaker 5: think in the interest of the next administration, we should
Speaker 5: clear the decks.
Speaker 6: We have a lot to do.
Speaker 5: As the Speaker pointed out in your earlier segment, we
Speaker 5: have a lot to accomplish in the first one hundred
Speaker 5: days of the next administration. And if we're fighting old
Speaker 5: battles and the spending bill for this year instead of
Speaker 5: looking forward to next year, I think that would really
Speaker 5: waste a lot of time. So, yes, we need a
Speaker 5: fiscally responsible appropriations bill, but we need to get it
Speaker 5: done by the deadline of December twentieth and give the
Speaker 5: next Congress a unified Republican government all of the flexibility that.
Speaker 6: Will be required to pursue a.
Speaker 5: Very ambitious and bold agenda in the first one hundred
Speaker 5: to two hundred days next year.
Speaker 2: So Congressman, I think what you're saying is that there
Speaker 2: shouldn't be another continuing resolution. And if so, aren't we
Speaker 2: just going to end up with either an omnibus or
Speaker 2: a couple minibuses before the new year.
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I don't think we should kick the can down the road.
Speaker 6: Let's finish the business.
Speaker 5: As I said before, the House has passed seventy percent
Speaker 5: of the appropriations bills. Let's finish our work and get
Speaker 5: the Senate to do its work. Whether that's in a
Speaker 5: one bill, two bills, three bills, three minibuses.
Speaker 6: Or what have you.
Speaker 5: We just need to get the job done so that
Speaker 5: we start with a clean slate in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 5: There's so much to do in reconciliation, with extending the
Speaker 5: tax cuts, securing the border, passing legislation to unleash our
Speaker 5: energy potential, and in the Financial Services Committee, we should
Speaker 5: have a big, bold agenda to restore the American dream
Speaker 5: by unleashing our capital markets to really provide jet fuel
Speaker 5: for our economy. That's what the American people deserve. Fighting
Speaker 5: the old battles of spending for this year I think
Speaker 5: would delay all.
Speaker 6: Of that work.
Speaker 4: Says a lot Congressmen, when the regular order option seems
Speaker 4: to be the most alternative at the moment, But I
Speaker 4: appreciate your view on that. We're watching shares today of
Speaker 4: Tesla and Rivian and other companies exposed to electronic vehicles
Speaker 4: fall sharply. Tesla's done about four percent right now. Rivian
Speaker 4: is down over ten percent. With a Reuter's headline that
Speaker 4: Donald Trump wants to undo or get rid of the
Speaker 4: seventy five hundred dollars EV tax credit, this is something
Speaker 4: that we knew could becoming in an effort to unwind
Speaker 4: parts of the IRA. Congressman, does he have the votes
Speaker 4: in Congress to do that, well, he has.
Speaker 5: My support because I don't think government intervention into markets
Speaker 5: is a really effective way to efficiently allocate capital in
Speaker 5: our economy. The fact of the matter is, if you
Speaker 5: talk to auto dealers across this country, certainly in Kentucky,
Speaker 5: the demand for ebs is simply not there. And clearly,
Speaker 5: through the Inflation Reduction Act, Congress was trying to put
Speaker 5: its finger on the scale and have the government incentivize
Speaker 5: the allocation of capital, incentivize the transition to electric vehicles
Speaker 5: when frankly, market demand is not there. The most efficient
Speaker 5: way to allocate capital is, of course, through the free market,
Speaker 5: and this kind of industrial policy is not a good
Speaker 5: way to promote American competitiveness. Frankly, we are in a
Speaker 5: global competition with China and other countries. We shouldn't try
Speaker 5: to counter China by becoming more like China, by copying
Speaker 5: or imitating their industrial policies.
Speaker 6: We need to be the best version of ourselves.
Speaker 5: Which means that we need to unleash our capital markets
Speaker 5: and we need to be we need to embrace the market.
Speaker 5: And the market simply does not support a precipitous transition
Speaker 5: to electric vehicles.
Speaker 6: The American people just don't want it.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about a different transition, Congressman, the
Speaker 2: transition of power between presidents we're experiencing now as Donald
Speaker 2: Trump has been outlining the selections for his cabinet. I
Speaker 2: know Capitol Hill was taken a bit by surprise yesterday
Speaker 2: when we learned that one of those was then Congressman
Speaker 2: Matt Gates from Florida. I wonder your reaction, sir, to
Speaker 2: not just the selection of Gates's attorney general, and whether
Speaker 2: you think he has the character for that job based
Speaker 2: on your experience working with him in the House. His
Speaker 2: sudden resignation and the fact that this is now three
Speaker 2: House members that have been pulled for the administration, making
Speaker 2: a thin majority of bit more difficult to navigate.
Speaker 5: Well, let me just say I think Elise Stephonic is
Speaker 5: a fantastic choice for you, and Ambassador, She's going to
Speaker 5: do a great job.
Speaker 6: The Senate will.
Speaker 5: Work its will with all of these, including mister Gates,
Speaker 5: and the Senate will of course have a say and
Speaker 5: whether or not these nominees will ultimately get their pick.
Speaker 5: But in terms of mister Gates's vacancy, what I'm most
Speaker 5: excited about is the fact that Governor DeSantis has said we.
Speaker 6: Will fill that seat before.
Speaker 5: January third, so we will have a new member of Congress,
Speaker 5: and we will be able to secure that very important
Speaker 5: thin majority that we have, so that we have unified
Speaker 5: control of the House, the Senate, and the White House.
Speaker 6: Should the House have we'll just set to meet tomorrow.
Speaker 4: By the way, understood, should the Ethics Committee Congressman release
Speaker 4: the report that it has been working up about Matt Gates,
Speaker 4: either to vindicate him or otherwise inform the confirmation process,
Speaker 4: They're set to meet tomorrow on this, Yeah, I think.
Speaker 6: The Senate will demand that.
Speaker 5: I think the Senate will need that information in order
Speaker 5: to work its will in the advice and consent process,
Speaker 5: and so I think it is important that.
Speaker 6: The Ethics Committee.
Speaker 5: I do not serve on the Ethics Committee, but I
Speaker 5: do think it's important for the Ethics Committee.
Speaker 6: To wrap up that work so that.
Speaker 5: The Senate can have all of the information in considering
Speaker 5: that nomination.
Speaker 2: Well, sir, you may not serve on the Ethics Committee,
Speaker 2: but you do sit on the Financial Services Committee. You had,
Speaker 2: in fact like to be its next chair. In that role,
Speaker 2: what would be Agenda Item number one in the new Congress?
Speaker 2: Is it banking? Is it crypto?
Speaker 6: Is it both? It's all of it.
Speaker 5: We need an American Dream Act. We need to restore
Speaker 5: the American Dream. The exit polls were very clear. Why
Speaker 5: did the American people vote for Donald Trump overwhelmingly and
Speaker 5: even the popular vote. Why did the American people give
Speaker 5: Republicans control of Congress and total control of the government.
Speaker 5: Is because they're dissatisfied with the direction of the country.
Speaker 5: Over two thirds of Americans believe that we're on the
Speaker 5: wrong track. So they want change and they want the
Speaker 5: American dream restored the idea that with hard work and
Speaker 5: by playing by the rules, they can get ahead.
Speaker 6: Right now, they don't feel like they're they're they're.
Speaker 5: Getting ahead, and they want major economic growth to give
Speaker 5: them that upward mobility that they deserve. In order to
Speaker 5: do that, of course, we need to extend the Tax
Speaker 5: Cuts and Jobs Act, those four and a half trillion
Speaker 5: dollars of expiring tax cuts through the reconciliation process.
Speaker 6: But we need more than that.
Speaker 5: We need to unleash our capital markets, and that means
Speaker 5: deregulation of our capital markets.
Speaker 6: It means deregulation of the banking sector.
Speaker 5: It means a regulatory framework for innovation in fintech and
Speaker 5: digital assets, providing clarity, certainty, and durability in the law
Speaker 5: to make sure that all of that innovation happens here
Speaker 5: in the United States. We need an affordable housing agenda
Speaker 5: to combat inflation, and you're part of inflation is the
Speaker 5: lack of affordable housing in this country, and deregulation of
Speaker 5: our housing markets is a big piece of that.
Speaker 6: The Federal Reserve needs to continue to shrink its.
Speaker 5: Balance sheet so that we get to price stability, and
Speaker 5: with price stability, we can gradually lower those interest rates
Speaker 5: to make.
Speaker 6: Housing more affordable.
Speaker 5: In addition to that, I think we need a national
Speaker 5: security agenda in financial services. I think what you're gonna
Speaker 5: see with the Trump administration and unified control of Congress
Speaker 5: by Republicans is maximum pressure on our adversaries through the
Speaker 5: Department of Treasury and sanctions. The previous administration was chasing
Speaker 5: sanctions relief. When Donald Trump says he can end the
Speaker 5: war in Ukraine, what he means by that is crushing
Speaker 5: sanctions on Moscow instead of chasing sanctions relief, whether it's
Speaker 5: Tehran or whether it's Moscow. You will see a much
Speaker 5: tougher treasury when it comes to our adversaries.
Speaker 6: That will give us leverage to.
Speaker 5: End some of these conflicts around the world and deter
Speaker 5: our enemies.
Speaker 6: So it's a multi tiered strategy.
Speaker 5: Its strength through deterrence on the national security front, and
Speaker 5: then because we're in a global economic competition, it's about
Speaker 5: making our financial system much more competitive through deregulation.
Speaker 2: All right, Congressman, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: That As Congressman Andy Barr, the Republican from Kentucky in
Speaker 2: the running to chair the Financial Services Committee in the
Speaker 2: next Congress. Thank you so much. We want to quickly
Speaker 2: add the voices now of our political panel today, Genie
Speaker 2: shan z Aino, Bloomberg Politics contributor and senior Democracy Fellow
Speaker 2: with the Center for the Study of the Presidency in Congress,
Speaker 2: together with John Seaton, founder and CEO of Echo Canyon Consulting,
Speaker 2: and Republican strategist John just as the Republican We just
Speaker 2: heard from the congressman there this notion that the gate
Speaker 2: seat could be quilled filled quickly before January. He's excited
Speaker 2: for a lease stephonic. But how hard does it go
Speaker 2: to be with this thin majority to get all that
Speaker 2: work he wants to get done done When the vote
Speaker 2: count is so narrow.
Speaker 7: It's going to be a challenge for sure. I will
Speaker 7: say for someone who is just on the back bench
Speaker 7: less than a year ago or about a year ago,
Speaker 7: Speaker Johnson has done a very very good job of
Speaker 7: corralling votes and getting to the well was two eighteen out.
Speaker 7: I think it will be about two hundred and sixteen
Speaker 7: votes that he needs to pass this legislation, So it
Speaker 7: will be a lot of work. There'll be a lot
Speaker 7: of I think deals that are going to have to
Speaker 7: be cut to get these things through, But I would
Speaker 7: not count out Speaker Johnson. He's done a very very
Speaker 7: good job so far.
Speaker 4: Well. Pretty interesting to hear from the Congressman Genie about
Speaker 4: government funding. He says, don't kick the can. We need
Speaker 4: regular order. Let's pass all twelve spending bills. Would it
Speaker 4: not take a Christmas miracle for that to happen?
Speaker 8: It would, But boy, that was a great conversation and
Speaker 8: music to my ears. As we keep talking every year
Speaker 8: after year after year, can we get something in place
Speaker 8: so that the government can be funded in a regular way,
Speaker 8: in an orderly way. And so to your Congressman Barr
Speaker 8: say that, But to your point, I think it's easier
Speaker 8: obviously said, than done. We know that from experience. And
Speaker 8: I also thought it was very interesting to hear him
Speaker 8: say about the confirmation process in terms of Matt Gates,
Speaker 8: that you know the Senate is going to be considering
Speaker 8: likely what is coming out of the Ethics Committee. And
Speaker 8: my understanding is they are at this very moment battling
Speaker 8: about what is released, but whether it's released publicly or
Speaker 8: not is almost beside the point. I agree with him
Speaker 8: completely that the Senators have a right to get that information.
Speaker 2: Well, I wonder about one senator in particular, John, the
Speaker 2: one who was all excited about a new job yesterday,
Speaker 2: Senator John Thune of South Dakota just elected to be
Speaker 2: the next majority leader, and then he's handed the difficulty
Speaker 2: of navigating a Gates confirmation process. How do you think
Speaker 2: he'll do.
Speaker 7: I think he'll do a great job. I think that
Speaker 7: John Dune is why what does that look like? What
Speaker 7: does that look like? I think I think he has
Speaker 7: the respect of his members, and I think this job,
Speaker 7: when it comes to leadership, it really is about having
Speaker 7: the trust and the support of your fifty two other
Speaker 7: Republican members, and I think that they know that he'll
Speaker 7: have their back. They know that he's working for the
Speaker 7: betterment of the conference. So I think he'll do well.
Speaker 7: I do think that he's got some real challenging confirmation
Speaker 7: battles up ahead of him right now. I'm not sure
Speaker 7: how excited he is to have the job, but I
Speaker 7: think he'll do well. And I think that his colleagues
Speaker 7: really do respect him, and I think that will play
Speaker 7: a huge role in how the Senate runs over the
Speaker 7: next two years.
Speaker 4: Certainly, big shoes to fill in a big test now
Speaker 4: with a President Trump emerging. At the other end of
Speaker 4: Pennsylvania Avenue.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ken
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Speaker 4: We also wait for more news in Washington from the
Speaker 4: Trump transition team. Remember, I know your mind was blown yesterday,
Speaker 4: but we still have some big ones. We need Treasury,
Speaker 4: we need health and Human Services, and both of those
Speaker 4: will be big news when they break. As we follow
Speaker 4: the bouncing ball in the House of Representatives, We're almost there.
Speaker 4: What do we have nine races left to be called
Speaker 4: a week and several days later, we told you that
Speaker 4: was going to happen. It's California, right. Final tally though,
Speaker 4: Check this out. As Donald Trump continues to pluck Republicans
Speaker 4: from the House of Representatives. The final tally when this
Speaker 4: is done could be a gop net gain of a
Speaker 4: single seat, and so Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House,
Speaker 4: fresh off leadership elections, yesterday sees and feels unity with
Speaker 4: his very thin margin.
Speaker 6: Whaff for thin.
Speaker 4: Here's the Speaker of the House.
Speaker 3: The theme that you'll hear over and over from all
Speaker 3: of our members across the confer is that we are
Speaker 3: unified and energized and ready to go. Serious times call
Speaker 3: for serious leadership. It's going to be a policy agenda
Speaker 3: driven administration and a Congress, and you've heard us say
Speaker 3: many times it could be. I believe it will be
Speaker 3: the most consequential Congress of the modern era, most consequential
Speaker 3: administration in the modern era, because, frankly, we have to
Speaker 3: fix almost every area of public policy.
Speaker 4: Beginning with funding the government. Remember we've had a funding
Speaker 4: deadline on the twentieth of December. And that's where we
Speaker 4: start our conversation with the gentleman from New York. Dan
Speaker 4: Goldbmin is here, the Democrat from New York's tenth congressional district,
Speaker 4: the force behind the Bagel Caucus. Congressman, it's great to
Speaker 4: see you, welcome. It's pretty clear that once again Mike
Speaker 4: Rogers is going to need Democrats to get anything done.
Speaker 4: How much support will the Democratic Conference give him on
Speaker 4: things like funding the government?
Speaker 9: Well, it really depends Joe and it just as it
Speaker 9: depended in the last Congress, when Democrats stepped up to
Speaker 9: be the adults in the room and make sure that
Speaker 9: we kept the government open, We passed a budget, we
Speaker 9: provided much needed supplemental security assistance to our democratic allies
Speaker 9: around the world. There will be a thin, thin majority,
Speaker 9: probably less than what it was in the last Congress,
Speaker 9: and it really depends on which way this Republican Party
Speaker 9: wants to go. I am encouraged to hear Speaker Johnson
Speaker 9: say that it will be a policy oriented Congress. Donald
Speaker 9: Trump's Project twenty twenty five and some of his initial
Speaker 9: nominations for cabinet posts reflect an unseerious, non policy oriented approach,
Speaker 9: and that will really determine what Democrats are going to do.
Speaker 9: If Donald Trump is going to try to dismantle our
Speaker 9: democracy for his own personal retribution and personal gain, he
Speaker 9: will not find any cooperation from Democrats. If he wants
Speaker 9: to focus on policy and fixing the border, addressing our economy,
Speaker 9: he very well may have partners in the Democratic Party,
Speaker 9: but it really is on them to figure out which
Speaker 9: path they want to go.
Speaker 4: We had Kevin robertson a couple of days ago, the
Speaker 4: head of the Heritage Foundation and one of the forces
Speaker 4: behind Project twenty twenty five, which you just mentioned. He's
Speaker 4: someone who's trying to get back in from the cold,
Speaker 4: it seems, and you know, the Trump camp disavowed much
Speaker 4: of that plan. When you talk about dismantling democracy, are
Speaker 4: you talking about schedule F for some of these other
Speaker 4: ideas in twenty twenty five? Just what should our audience
Speaker 4: know that you're referring to, because I haven't seen any
Speaker 4: sort of real proposal on that front yet.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I mean, I think it's a combination of things. Joe
Speaker 9: Schedule F, which, for those who don't understand, would allow
Speaker 9: career expert government employees to be fired at will and
Speaker 9: potentially replaced by political loyalists who are unqualified and incapable
Speaker 9: of actually running the day to day government. That will do,
Speaker 9: and we've seen it a little bit from the nominations
Speaker 9: of Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Hegseth and Matt Gates, is
Speaker 9: it will turn these executive branch agencies into political arms
Speaker 9: of Donald Trump, and that will undermine our national security,
Speaker 9: That will weaponize the Department of Justice to go after
Speaker 9: Trump's enemies and allies. Matt Gates will execute that to
Speaker 9: Donald Trump's wishes.
Speaker 6: It will allow the.
Speaker 9: Military to be used, for example, to disperse a protest
Speaker 9: on the National Mall that Donald Trump doesn't like, and
Speaker 9: it will really undermine our intelligence community if Tulsey Gabbard,
Speaker 9: who has very untoward relationships with Assad and Putin, oversees
Speaker 9: our intelligence community.
Speaker 6: So that's a big part of it.
Speaker 9: But we're also talking about getting rid of the Department
Speaker 9: of Education. We are talking about yanking certification for mifipristone
Speaker 9: medication abortion. We are talking about rolling back all of
Speaker 9: the incentives and subsidies for renewable energy, and the list
Speaker 9: goes on and on and on. Those are more policy decisions,
Speaker 9: but combined with Donald Trump's personal revenge tour and his
Speaker 9: authoritarian rhetoric, there's a real danger that the basic foundations
Speaker 9: of our government are going to be destroyed.
Speaker 4: Well, it brings us to our resolution, and I do
Speaker 4: want to just say that I realize that that you
Speaker 4: have concerns, Congressmen, but we haven't seen any formal proposals
Speaker 4: on that front. He's not in office yet. We're ready
Speaker 4: for whatever happens, but you're up with a resolution to
Speaker 4: make sure that he only serves one more term. This
Speaker 4: is something that you're introducing today in this session of Congress,
Speaker 4: mister Guldbman of New York, I'm looking at it in
Speaker 4: front of me here submitted the following refer to the
Speaker 4: Committee Resolution reaffirming the Validity and Applicability of the twenty
Speaker 4: second Amendment. Whereas President elect Donald Trump told Republican members
Speaker 4: of the House on November thirteen, quote, I suspect I
Speaker 4: won't be running again unless you say he's so good,
Speaker 4: We've got to figure something else out unquote. Now, a
Speaker 4: lot of people thought that was a joke. Congressman, you
Speaker 4: took it seriously enough to draft this reaffirming the twenty
Speaker 4: second Amendment applies to two terms in the aggregate. As
Speaker 4: President of the United States, this is already in the Constitution.
Speaker 4: What makes you think you have to do this?
Speaker 9: Well, I've been following Donald Trump very closely for the
Speaker 9: last five years, Joe, as you know, I was the
Speaker 9: lead council on his first impeachment investigation, and I know
Speaker 9: how he operates, and how he operates is by floating
Speaker 9: trial balloons that he often claims are jokes, but he's
Speaker 9: very serious. About it, and he's been talking about staying
Speaker 9: on past this next term for years. He's made numerous
Speaker 9: references to it, and the way that he operates is
Speaker 9: that things start as a joke, then they become normalized,
Speaker 9: and then he tries to do them. And so this
Speaker 9: is simply just to call on Congress to reaffirm that
Speaker 9: the twenty second Amendment, as it clearly states, applies to
Speaker 9: Donald Trump and non consecutive terms two terms in the aggregate.
Speaker 9: It is plainly written in the Constitution. But there is
Speaker 9: enough talk about it from Donald Trump, from others who
Speaker 9: support him. Lauren Bobert made a reference to it last week.
Speaker 9: There's enough talk about it that it is imperative that
Speaker 9: we very immediately and very clearly stand up and say
Speaker 9: this is what the Constitution says. Republicans in Congress, are
Speaker 9: you for the Constitution or are you against the Constitution?
Speaker 9: It should be very easy for them because it is
Speaker 9: very simply what the Constitution says. But unfortunately, if Donald
Speaker 9: Trump does not believe in the Constitution, all too often
Speaker 9: Republicans in Congress go along with them.
Speaker 6: And if that is the case, for the.
Speaker 9: Next four years, our Constitution will be sorely undermined.
Speaker 4: So you're calling on lawmakers essentially to support what has
Speaker 4: already been written here. You mentioned Matt Gates, and I
Speaker 4: do remember if we can go back a couple of
Speaker 4: years here, December twenty nineteen House Judiciary Committee, you had
Speaker 4: quite a throwdown with Matt Gates over the impeachment of
Speaker 4: Donald Trump. He called you out as the majority's witness
Speaker 4: and counsel in addition to being a Democratic donor. I'm
Speaker 4: looking at a news release that Matt Gates's office kicked
Speaker 4: out that very day, as they describe you as frequently
Speaker 4: attacking the president on Twitter? Was that the beginning of
Speaker 4: Matt Gates's trajectory to becoming Attorney General.
Speaker 9: I don't know whether that is or not. I think
Speaker 9: you know. I've worked with Matt Gates now for two years.
Speaker 9: I've seen how he operates. I've heard what he believes.
Speaker 9: He is a burn down the House kind of member.
Speaker 9: He wants to burn down the Department of Justice, he
Speaker 9: wants to eliminate the FBI.
Speaker 6: He wants his own personal.
Speaker 9: Retribution and revenge against the Department of Justice because they
Speaker 9: went through an extensive criminal investigation of him. So he
Speaker 9: is the exact wrong person to run an institution that
Speaker 9: is so important to the orderly interpretation and implementation of
Speaker 9: our laws, our criminal laws, our civil laws. This is
Speaker 9: about as bad of a pick as one could imagine,
Speaker 9: because mister Gates just literally wants to tear it down
Speaker 9: and he will turn the Department of Justice into Donald
Speaker 9: Trump's personal attorney, which is not what it is designed
Speaker 9: to be.
Speaker 4: This ephen gets out of the starting gate here, Congressman,
Speaker 4: Thank you Dan Goldman of New York with an important
Speaker 4: headline that relates to the gentleman from New York City.
Speaker 4: Congestion pricing here it is nine dollars a toll to
Speaker 4: start in January, according to the governor.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on evilcar Play and
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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch live on YouTube.
Speaker 4: Thanks for being here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. I'm
Speaker 4: Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lions. It's the Thursday edition of
Speaker 4: Balance of Power with still many questions about the appointments
Speaker 4: that we're hearing, and we'll still hear from Donald Trump
Speaker 4: as he fills out his cabinet. Much of the view, Kaylee,
Speaker 4: has been domestic, but there's a deliberate effort here at
Speaker 4: Bloomberg to keep our eyes on geopolitics, with a lot
Speaker 4: of questions about what another Trump administration will mean, specifically
Speaker 4: for Ukraine and the Middle East. Anthony Blinken is back overseas,
Speaker 4: by the way, not to deal with the matter of Israel.
Speaker 4: He went to Europe, went to Brussels to talk to
Speaker 4: NATO about Ukraine as the administration tries to get the
Speaker 4: remaining money and material from the sixty one billion dollar
Speaker 4: relief package for Ukraine out the door, Kayley before the
Speaker 4: inaugural Well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as they're trying to perhaps Trump proof this to
Speaker 2: the extent that they can, knowing that both the President
Speaker 2: elect and the Vice President elect have expressed skepticism about
Speaker 2: continued US support financially for Ukraine. And then there's of
Speaker 2: course the other people who could join this administration to
Speaker 2: consider here as well. We learned yesterday that Senator Marco
Speaker 2: Rubio of Florida will be tapped for Secretary of State.
Speaker 2: Former Congressman Toulci Gabbard will be Director of National Intelligence.
Speaker 2: We've gotten a number of picks that raised many foreign
Speaker 2: policy questions. Of course, before that, Pete Hexa, the Defense
Speaker 2: Secretary and at least Dephonic tapped her ambassador to the US.
Speaker 4: Did you put together the mosaic here? If you're with
Speaker 4: us on Bloomberg TV or on YouTube, you can see
Speaker 4: it in real time. It does make you wonder what
Speaker 4: the administration's approach will be, Kayley, Remembering Donald Trump said
Speaker 4: he would end this war in Ukraine on day one.
Speaker 2: So we want to get more on the ongoing war
Speaker 2: in Ukraine and how this administration could approach it this
Speaker 2: incoming administration. And turn to Melinda Herring. She is non
Speaker 2: resident Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council. Welcome back to
Speaker 2: Balance of Power, Melinda, as we assess those who could
Speaker 2: help shape Donald Trump's foreign policy in this second administration,
Speaker 2: and specifically the lan which we have heard from them
Speaker 2: on Ukraine. What do you make of the picks so far?
Speaker 2: How do you think Ukraine feels about them.
Speaker 10: Hey, Kayley, So we don't know a lot. At this point.
Speaker 10: Ukrainians were relieved at the choice of Secretary of State
Speaker 10: and also at the National Security Advisor. Both Rubio and
Speaker 10: the congressmen are internationalists, and the congressman in particular, the
Speaker 10: future National Security Advisor, mister Walts, has a strong record
Speaker 10: on Ukraine. His votes have been good for his record,
Speaker 10: He's met with Ukrainian soldiers, he gets it. So I
Speaker 10: think Ukraine felt a huge sense of relief at those
Speaker 10: two appointments.
Speaker 4: What does Pete Hegseth specifically bring to the effort, knowing
Speaker 4: that he's looking to house clean at the Pentagon. Were
Speaker 4: going to tack this from a couple of different ways here.
Speaker 4: Melinda foggy Bottom is one state department. The other, though,
Speaker 4: is the Pentagon itself and the promise to fire scores
Speaker 4: of generals. What would that mean for intelligence sharing, for
Speaker 4: strategy eg gathering when it comes to Ukraine.
Speaker 10: Hey, Joe, I think the Pentagon nomination is one that
Speaker 10: gives people a lot of pause right now. It's not
Speaker 10: very clear what this gentleman would bring to the table
Speaker 10: in terms of his managerial chops. When you zoom in
Speaker 10: and look at Ukraine, the Pentagon has been critical in
Speaker 10: making sure that all of the weapons that Congress has
Speaker 10: appropriated get there on time. And this gentleman seems to
Speaker 10: be occupied with a lot of domestic concerns. So I
Speaker 10: think the foreign policy crowd in Washington is very skeptical
Speaker 10: of this nominee.
Speaker 2: Okay, So if we're looking at potential areas in which
Speaker 2: there is concern over those who will be in the
Speaker 2: incoming Trump administration in the US, Melinda, is there going
Speaker 2: to be the ability to make up for that and
Speaker 2: other allies around the world. Is Europe going to be
Speaker 2: able to step in where the US might not, or
Speaker 2: is there really no hope for Ukraine if US military
Speaker 2: and financial backing does not continue.
Speaker 10: There's always hope, and there's always hope for Ukraine because
Speaker 10: Ukrainians are determined and this is an existential fight. So
Speaker 10: even though some of the current nominees raise more than
Speaker 10: an eyebrow, give me anxiety at night, pick whatever analogy
Speaker 10: you like, they are not confirmed and they may not
Speaker 10: make it through the confirmation process. And the attitude in
Speaker 10: Kiev is a lot chiller than it is here in Washington.
Speaker 10: Their attitude is we can work with anyone. We will
Speaker 10: find the right argument, and we will make the case
Speaker 10: because Ukraine must have assistance and Europe is stepping up.
Speaker 10: Europe has been freaking out for the last week and
Speaker 10: they realize that they haven't put their defensive lines in place,
Speaker 10: they haven't stepped up manufacturing to the extent that they
Speaker 10: need to, and I think they're finally freaking out. And
Speaker 10: that's a good thing. That's a good thing for European security.
Speaker 10: It's a good thing for US taxpayers as well.
Speaker 4: Talk to us, Melinda, about what is being prepared for shipment,
Speaker 4: whether it's money or material military gear. What does the
Speaker 4: administration have left that it is so determined to send
Speaker 4: over before January?
Speaker 10: Yeah, Joe, this is the really important question. So Jake Sullivan,
Speaker 10: the current National Security Advisor, has said that the five
Speaker 10: point five billion remaining on the books will be in
Speaker 10: key of by January twentieth. It will be Trump proofed. Now,
Speaker 10: I've been making some phone calls and talking to people
Speaker 10: on Capitol Hill, and that's not what I'm hearing and seeing.
Speaker 10: According to some of the conversations I've had, Joe, only
Speaker 10: twenty to twenty five percent of that kit that the
Speaker 10: Ukrainians really need and it's very hard now, will arrive
Speaker 10: by January twentieth. So apparently the White House decided to
Speaker 10: put this military equipment on to ship it by sea
Speaker 10: rather than to fly it in. So this is a
Speaker 10: big problem, and I hope the White House can speed
Speaker 10: it up because Ukrainians are depending on it.
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about something else Ukraine is dependent on
Speaker 2: because wars are not just fought with actual ammunition and weapon,
Speaker 2: They're fought with information and the ability to communicate. And
Speaker 2: I wonder, Melinda, what your reaction is to the role
Speaker 2: we are seeing Elon Musk now play in his closeness
Speaker 2: to the president elect, the role he will serve. We
Speaker 2: understands the co head of the Department of Government Efficiency
Speaker 2: knowing that he has the power to influence the operations
Speaker 2: of Starlink, and according to reporting, has even discussed that
Speaker 2: matter with Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 10: Right, So this is a relationship that I'm going to
Speaker 10: continue to watch. We don't know how it's going to evolve,
Speaker 10: but the fact that Musk is involved in the conversations
Speaker 10: over Russia and Ukraine means that it's important and that
Speaker 10: it will be an elevated issue in the early days
Speaker 10: in the Trump administration. So, unfortunately, I don't think we
Speaker 10: can speculate much more beyond that.
Speaker 4: It's something I'm watching, Melinda. If Donald Trump's idea of
Speaker 4: ending this war on day one includes a settlement that
Speaker 4: gives Russia all of the occupied territory that it's taken
Speaker 4: from the dumbboss, all the way down through Crimea. Does
Speaker 4: he have a willing partner in President Zelenski or is
Speaker 4: that a deal breaker?
Speaker 10: So I don't know so right now, Zelenski's saying no territory,
Speaker 10: but the conversation in Kiev has switched from territory Joe
Speaker 10: to security guarantees. And I think that's the area where
Speaker 10: the Ukrainians are not going to give whatsoever they've said,
Speaker 10: even if we freeze the conflict now, even if there's
Speaker 10: some kind of DMZ zone, we know that the Russians
Speaker 10: will come back at us and we can't live in peace.
Speaker 10: This is not this is not a just piece. And
Speaker 10: it's interesting that Donald Trump has used the phrase just piece.
Speaker 10: It's also interesting, So Trump made a lot of promises,
Speaker 10: there's a lot of campaign Rick. He said that he
Speaker 10: will in the war in twenty four hours. I'm sorry,
Speaker 10: that's not possible, but it's instructive to go back and
Speaker 10: look at his record. So when he pulled out of
Speaker 10: the Iran deal, it took them sixteen months to do it.
Speaker 10: So I think Donald Trump is likely to find out
Speaker 10: that he makes these big, big, bold promises, but the
Speaker 10: actual implementation is quite sticky, and he's not going to
Speaker 10: want to put himself, especially in the early days in
Speaker 10: his administration, in a week footing. If he were to
Speaker 10: freeze AID on January twentieth, there's going to be egg
Speaker 10: all over the United States face, and the Chinese are
Speaker 10: watching us and what we're doing in Ukraine. I don't
Speaker 10: think Donald Trump can afford that, and I think he
Speaker 10: is probably going to pivot back to a reaganes theme
Speaker 10: of peace through strength.
Speaker 2: As we consider what's actually happening in Ukraine now, Melinda,
Speaker 2: Obviously there has been in the last several weeks a
Speaker 2: lot of focus on the fact that North Koreans are
Speaker 2: now involved in this conflict. What actually has that done
Speaker 2: to change conditions on the ground and the actual operations
Speaker 2: and abilities of Russia and the way in which Ukraine
Speaker 2: has to respond.
Speaker 10: Kai it's making The infusion of these ten thousand North
Speaker 10: Korean troops up in Kursk Oblast is making it more
Speaker 10: difficult for the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians are short on men
Speaker 10: and shells right now, and the pressure is really on.
Speaker 10: Is it decisive? No, but it increases the pressure. And
Speaker 10: it's also winter, and the winter season is going to
Speaker 10: be hard, cold and brutal, and I expect pretty severe
Speaker 10: blackouts if the Russians continue their missile strikes, which they
Speaker 10: have been over the past week.
Speaker 4: You know, we're assuming as a premise of this conversation, Melinda,
Speaker 4: maybe rightfully, so, I guess that's my question. Should we
Speaker 4: assume that this new Congress, with Republican control of both
Speaker 4: the House and Senate, would not approve any further funding
Speaker 4: for Ukraine?
Speaker 10: Joe, I'm not willing to concede that yet. So there
Speaker 10: was a lot of hope for a supplemental bill, but
Speaker 10: it doesn't look like that's going to happen in this
Speaker 10: lame duck period. But look, you and I have had
Speaker 10: lots of conversations about Speaker Mike Johnson. He cares about Ukraine,
Speaker 10: he cares about the Christians that are being persecuted by
Speaker 10: Russia there. He has personal relationships with a lot of Ukrainians,
Speaker 10: and he knows what's at stake, And a majority of
Speaker 10: Republicans still support Ukraine. So I'm definitely not giving up
Speaker 10: on Congress there is bipartisan support for Ukraine on Capitol
Speaker 10: Hill even in Trump's second term in office.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess we'll see if that bipartisan nature is
Speaker 2: enough to get things over the finish line in this
Speaker 2: upcoming Congress when there's a lot domestically that they want
Speaker 2: to get done. Melinda, President Biden is about to make
Speaker 2: another trip Overseas, one of his last as president. He's
Speaker 2: going to be meeting with Shijinping tomorrow on the sidelines
Speaker 2: of the APEC summit in Peru. He'll then be heading
Speaker 2: to the G twenty in Brazil. How do you think
Speaker 2: Ukraine is going to factor into the conversations that will
Speaker 2: be had over the course of the next several days.
Speaker 10: So I know that Taiwan and many other allies in
Speaker 10: the Pacific are watching to see if America will live
Speaker 10: up to its promise. We've made a lot of promises
Speaker 10: on Ukraine, and our actions have a big and resounding impact,
Speaker 10: particularly in Asia. So I think that our actions are
Speaker 10: being watched very carefully, and that's sort of what I
Speaker 10: expected to see and be a focus of that discussion.
Speaker 4: Well, Linda, it's great to have you back with this
Speaker 4: non resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, with clearly
Speaker 4: a lot of questions that have to be answered about
Speaker 4: the way the Trump administration incoming and the incoming Republican
Speaker 4: majority in the House and Senate will handle the matter
Speaker 4: of Ukraine. Melinda, thank you as always for the insights,
Speaker 4: and we hope to continue the conversation as we learn
Speaker 4: more here, Kaylee, it really reminds us of how many
Speaker 4: plates we have in the air as we talk about
Speaker 4: domestic policy. Today, it's the ira and tax credits for
Speaker 4: evs making news, but the situation in Ukraine, the situation
Speaker 4: in the Middle East where there's now apparently a drive
Speaker 4: for are that might coincide with the inaugural with Hesbela specifically,
Speaker 4: really worth watching as we see this transition take place well.
Speaker 2: And of course one of the visual elements of that
Speaker 2: transition that we saw yesterday was a sit down between
Speaker 2: President Biden and President elect Trump at the White House,
Speaker 2: and according to Jake Sullivan, who took part in the
Speaker 2: White House briefing yesterday afternoon, foreign policy did feature heavily
Speaker 2: on that agenda for that conversation that we didn't get
Speaker 2: a full readout. We certainly do expect both the current
Speaker 2: leader and the one who will be leading the country
Speaker 2: moving forward. After January twentieth, did talk about these topics
Speaker 2: in the middle of all of the other news Donald
Speaker 2: Trump was bringing us in regard to that's right, the
Speaker 2: composition of his second administration.
Speaker 4: The next big meeting and look for will be in
Speaker 4: person President Zelenski and Donald Trump. They are working on
Speaker 4: putting that together, according to Bloomberg reporting, and that could
Speaker 4: be happening anytime between now and the inauguration. We'll see
Speaker 4: if Elon Musk emerges in that meeting. But we've got
Speaker 4: a lot more to follow. To Kaylee's point, we've been
Speaker 4: getting a lot of these appointments in the second half
Speaker 4: of the day. Treasury still outstanding, Health and Human Service
Speaker 4: is still outstanding, along with a couple of others.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Commerce, Energy, Agriculture. There is a big cabinet to
Speaker 2: fill out of just ones that need Senate confirmation and
Speaker 2: more still that we could learn about who won't require
Speaker 2: that check.
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make
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