WEBVTT - It Ain't Over, Here Comes the Take Over 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.760 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:05.600 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:07.120 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.200 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:12.280 I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.640 trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.239 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? And 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:23.720 it really is? What's up? I'm Laura Curnti and I'm 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.320 Alexa Kristen. Welcome back to Atlantia, episode sixteen. So we've 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.960 got a funny, smart guy coming in, Andrew Essex. He's 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:33.920 going to talk to us about the end of advertising 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.960 and what he's been doing over at Tribeca Enterprises for 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.519 the last year or two since he's been there. But 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.600 before we get into that, you had fun at the 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.479 IB podcast up fronts. Yes, and did we get a 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:47.040 lot of good reaction. I think a lot of people 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:49.680 were talking about, you know, a lot of podcasts that 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.279 they want to check out, at Landia being one of them. 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:54.320 So we're very excited. If you have friends that haven't 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.120 listened to Atlantia, tell them. But I think with this 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.800 year in the upfront different than especially year. Last year 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:06.279 was very very focused on UM content and the inventory right. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:11.160 This year was really focused on measurement and data and UM, 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.919 there were things you know, folks were saying, like people 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:17.720 podcast listeners have said that they would be open to 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:22.880 more podcasts advertising. I love the fact that and I 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:24.959 don't know if Panoply would hate me for saying this, 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.240 but I love the fact that there's actually not a 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:31.280 ton of inventory in podcasts. And I also love the 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.360 fact that hosts are the people UM hosting. They're very 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.720 well thought full producers. As I look at cam, UM 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.840 have the ability to agree to do host reads and 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.720 have certain advertisers on their shows because I at the 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:51.120 end of the day, we are doing this because we 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.800 love it. We're doing it because ay weren't part of 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.520 a community. But also we want to build a community 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.200 right around a genre or a certain topic. And I 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:04.720 think that ating more inventory into a podcast could be 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.160 just clutter. You know, it's interesting. I totally agree with 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:16.280 your point as usual, UM, but I but I think, uh, 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.760 you know, controlling the context might be the wrong way 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.040 of saying it, but definitely protecting the context of the show, 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.400 I think it's important. UM, it's interesting I was dabbling 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.919 with a couple of top ten podcasts recently and came 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:34.680 across one where there were about for seven host reads 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.480 and then many ad breaks in between the content, which 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.760 a made the show very, very long, and understanding that 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:42.880 the show is is a hot show and high demand, 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.440 and so there was six minute show, an hour long show. 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.840 It was upwards of forty five minutes plus, but I 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.519 would say a good majority of that went the way 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.920 of ads, and I just I felt like it was 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.320 too long, it was too muddied. I was like, I 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.280 wanted to fast forward through the ads and audio UM, 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.359 which obviously, as a podcast host and somebody who's in 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:03.960 the industry, I was curious to listen to them. But 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:05.280 at the same time, I was like, Okay, I just 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.239 want to get back into the interview. And so I 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.440 think that there's a danger in saturation and as an industry, 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.920 we need to be really careful UM. Understanding that this 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.480 is a very intimate medium. It's the only thing, UM 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:19.920 might be one of the only things I'm paying attention to, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.480 and like, I don't want to feel aggravated and annoyed 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.600 before I even get to the show starting, So like, 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:26.480 let's not create the pre role before the pre role, 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.280 before the pre role. Let's like preserve the content experience 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.160 and give people what they came for. I also think 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.320 like we have the opportunity, and I have to say, 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.480 I was in meetings before, so I couldn't make it 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.120 to the whole day, so I only got to the afternoon. 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:39.960 So I don't know if people talked about this, but 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.480 there's a huge opportunity I think in audio, to in 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:49.360 streaming audio or on demand audio UM to rethink how 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.680 advertising is done. You know, it's been typically kind of 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.400 taking the radio model and applying it with UM, I 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:00.480 think more success because it is something that you download 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:04.120 and something that you select right to listen to very specifically. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.480 I think there's a huge opportunity to think about advertising 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:13.200 and the personality and the talent together in a way 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:17.040 that makes more sense. And there's you know, and I 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.719 don't know how you monetize that, but we can. I 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.880 feel very confident that we can. And so, you know, 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.960 in a world where we're trying to standardize everything, and 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:26.960 that's what you know, the i B does is like 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.400 create these great standards that the industry can kind of 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:34.320 march towards and monetize and be successful. Um. Both from 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:38.040 an advertiser perspective and a publisher perspective right supply side, 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:42.120 demand side, It's still a really niscent form of media 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.799 at the end of the day, podcasting, and I think 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.080 that right now is the time to start rethinking it. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.839 And I'm not against standards. I'm all for standards, but 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:55.560 let's start. Let's start being really freaking imaginative with creating 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.320 something and then setting a standard. I think that a 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.840 lot of brands are looking to figure out how they 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.320 get into this space. They know now that they probably 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.000 should get into the space people were talking about, you know, 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.360 and a couple of years ago, you know, ten percent 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.440 of major brands said that podcasting was going to be 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.679 a part of their media mix. Now it's like way 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.240 more than that, right. I think people know that they 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.400 should be in podcasting, I'm not sure they totally understand 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.720 yet why. And I think that we have to go 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.159 in and we have to educate people both on the 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.640 agency side and on the brand side and let them 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.520 use this as a new playground for creativity UM and 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.080 work with hosts and do things like that. So yeah, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.159 I think one of the things that UM, I was 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.520 following on Twitter from at Moss Appeal, who's somebody who 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.359 follows us at at Landia said some of the themes 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.599 that she saw it this year's upfront included what she 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.800 felt was a maturity in terms of, like seeing the 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:56.560 platform growing. I think that's what you're saying, Like we've 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.760 moved past now the point of finding people to make content, 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.920 Like there's definitely no shortage of content in the podcasting space, 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.120 and we're starting to think about now how we create 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.280 these prescriptive ways to measure and to advertise and all 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:10.920 of these sorts of things. But you noticed that there 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.760 was a push UM for more branded content, a direct 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.159 appeal for title sponsors UM, and definitely a need for 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.920 case study stats. And so, you know, take it or 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.200 leave it. I think that what we're getting to is 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.200 it is so ripe the time is now UM and 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.479 people need to recognize that. But before we destroy a 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.760 medium with seven pre rolls in a show, what are 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.119 the limitations? And I gotta be honest, like that doesn't 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.719 necessarily just fall on the agency or the advertiser. The 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:42.720 show creators and the producers and the publishers also need 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.359 to be respectful of the audience experience and and figuring 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.080 out ways to monetize in a way where they're not 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.920 losing margin. So is it not coming up with five 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.039 pre rolls to pay your your host or you know, 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:56.800 is it coming up with the best two minute with 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:58.720 a brand that owns, you know, a season. There was 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.599 a lot of conversation about the scription shows and um 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.920 subscription services, and I think that we're going to see 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.039 a lot more of that in this space, and I'm 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.240 all for it. I just want someone to like package 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.400 up or give me an opportunity where I can pick 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.680 a bundle because I'm not listening. I love Panoply. I 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.120 listen to most of Panoply shows. I don't just listen 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.760 to Panoply shows. I listen to w n i C shows. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:20.960 I love to listen to NPR shows. I let you right, 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.760 And I think that many many listeners are like that. 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.720 They also right now because it's such a nissent industry, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:34.080 they don't even know, not always they do. If they've 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.280 been listeners for a while, or if they've somehow been 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.320 in the industry, they're not paying attention typically to the network. 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.480 And I think it's a time right now where networks 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.200 actually really interesting point. Yeah, they're not paying attention to 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.080 the network. So the opportunity to think about subscription here 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.280 in a different way as well, uh is right for 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.920 taking And if a network actually ends up doing that, 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.920 right they actually strike a deal to do some kind 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:02.120 of skinny skinny bundle. I mean that's right for media companies, right, 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.040 Like who's to say in New York Times or fast 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.680 Co or any of these thought leader publications couldn't come 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.480 to the table and actually create that sort of same 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.120 offering our service or licensing content to do that. But 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.800 I agree, yes, but I think that that's going to 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:20.600 potentially change people's associations all of a sudden with networks, 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:22.960 or at least the awareness factor of networks. And I 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.120 think that's really interesting. Um So, it was like it 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.520 does like w M I C become or a gimlet 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.960 become like the title of music, right, where like you 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:33.800 have to subscribe the only place you can get these 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.520 shows and if you're craving the talent, which let's be honest, 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.079 that's what people are rallying around in this industry. It's 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.520 not like flipping a channel. It's about opting in to 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.880 listen to a perspective, presumably, Yeah, why has an iTunes 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.320 done it? Why they're coming? I think so with all 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.360 the original content and things that they're doing, I think 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.720 that they that it makes the most sense for them. 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:56.800 So you think to move away from being the pipes 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.280 to the actual No, they'll still be the pipe, but 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:03.320 they'll be the tow on network. Interesting. Uh, panically, you 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.720 know Full Disclosure, who produces our podcast, had a great 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:11.240 presentation on their megaphone media platform UM, which is really 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.520 the first one in the industry that truly does as 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.840 much tracking and measurement. I think that is possible. They're 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.719 really looking at demographics. They also put in place the 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:25.160 whole UM New marketplace, so the Megaphone marketplace where people 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.839 can buy audiences UM and that's the first time that's 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.040 been done. And then they have a partnership with Nielsen 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.360 also the first time that's been done. Also, the first 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.520 time that's been done. One thing I wish folks would 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.320 have been talking about is okay, awesome, Then how do 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.360 I start looking at that data and start applying those 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.840 audiences and started applying some of the insights on subscription 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:51.079 and what they're listening to outside of podcasting, outside of audio. 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.840 I actually, for me, I am a big believer that 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:59.640 podcasting is a gateway to a more psychographic view. And 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.000 Save America is done with some of their I r 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.360 L events, you know what I mean. It's it's ways 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.800 to maximize go to where the listeners are, figuring out 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.920 how you produce events around particular points in your show 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.400 when you're seeing a high activation point or where you're 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.679 seeing a low drop off and pivoting and figuring out 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.000 how to backfill that content. So yeah, I think data 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.160 is gonna be As a host, I'm super interested to 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.240 see and get access to, you know, what people are 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.480 thinking about, how they're engaging with the product, and ultimately 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.440 where they are who they are. I mean, we know, 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.480 you know who some of them are small batch in 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.520 in our social following, but you know, outside of that, 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.160 I think there's much to be learned. And I would 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.360 also say, like I think there were a lot of 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.440 you know, advertisers in the audience. I just I really 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:49.960 like we've talked to some advertisers on this show, and 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.720 we like so appreciate everyone that supports us. And I 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.840 think that the advertisers on the show of written in 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.319 some cases a lot of work that we can read 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:00.360 and that is personal to us, and I kind of 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:02.840 understand the brand, but I would say push that even further, 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.480 work with your talent more. Um So I think that 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.440 that's something that the you know, I'd love that to 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.800 see them talk about Diabe and the podcast upfront more 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.040 next year about the creativity side of this. So with that, 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.760 Andrew Essex and the end of advertising, don't don't do. 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:36.600 We'll be right back. So we're back in the studio 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.360 with the one and all name. We've like pod stalk 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:44.800 to you. Andrew Essex. Welcome. So Andrew is the CEO 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.600 of Tribeca Enterprises and a former admin. Do you consider 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:54.040 yourself a former admin or just ad man? I think 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.240 you are always an ad man once you've been an adman. Yeah, 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.200 it goes deep, it goes deep. You've got those jazz hands. 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:07.440 They don't come off for that just for the ad industry. 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.599 So let's talk about your history because one thing that 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.360 I think is really interesting and put some of the 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:18.320 things that you've done recently into context, is you started 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.920 as a journalist. Right started your career as a journalist 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:25.320 where at the New York Cooperator, where you may have 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.880 read my piece on what to do when your dormant 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.239 is sleeping on the job. It was shortlisted for a Pulitzer. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:32.960 That's not true, but actually that's where it worked. It 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.840 was a shitty little trade publication and from there I 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:37.960 somehow got a job at The New Yorker. That was 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:44.520 like the beginning of the end, the end of Dormant, 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:50.640 the end of Dormant. That's yeah, totally. So I want 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:52.160 to get to your book, which is the end of 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.960 advertising and not the end of Dorman. But that's going 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.480 to be the sequel. Um. But I want to talk 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.840 about your career because I think puting the book into 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.800 context of your career is really important. So you went 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:09.160 from journalism into advertising. How did you get into advertising? Well, frankly, 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:10.880 David Orga was a friend of mine and we had 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.120 just talked about working together in some way. He was 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.760 the global creative chairman of Publicists, and I was at 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:19.200 a magazine that I think was shut down in a 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.440 poker game, and we just thought, it's gotta be a 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.760 better way, and that was really it. It was just 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.240 it was kind of a crazed ambition and timing. Let's 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.840 just start something. And he had a few other people 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.320 there were already and we didn't have to reverse engineer anything. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.320 We were just built for the future and the timing 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:38.880 was right. And so were you a part of the 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.720 five of dro Droka five? Were one of the original five. 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:43.440 I'd like to say that's true, or it was about 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.840 five principles, but that's actually a reference to the number 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.640 that his mother stitched in the clothes because he's the 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.240 fifth of five children. That's where the I never did 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.760 you know, Allien very Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.680 it was like the Jackson five, like I just or 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.280 was it? Marlon? Definitely want to be if I were 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:10.240 you Germaine. Okay, so you started Droka with David Droga 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.560 and then you were there till recently two thousand and 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.720 thirteen to be exact, so ten years giver take an 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.560 incredible ride. When I was there, there were six people, 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.200 and when I left there fifty people and it's probably 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:29.080 double since I left, which is telling signs and Global Global. Yeah. Yeah, 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.360 it was just an amazing run and incredible time in 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.240 the business for a variety of obvious reasons, but people 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.960 who were committed to just making work that didn't suck, 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.000 which was a fun thing to be associated with. Now, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.680 did you start working on the book end of advertising 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.840 before you left Droca? Afterwards? After so the agency sold 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.560 William Morris, which has been well documented. And I left 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.840 after two years and was on what Amanda Robertson would 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.240 call gardening leave and had not thing to do. I know, 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.200 I can't imagine Andrew Robson gardening by the way, it's 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:10.000 an englishism, britishism. So I learned how to make composts 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.120 and shuffered my kids to camp and thought, you know, 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.360 I should probably write something, And wanted to write a 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.080 story about the dual origin of heroin Naspirin, which is 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.200 a story I'm obsessed with. But yeah, I couldn't sell 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:24.760 that as a full on book. It's just really just 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:29.040 the cocktail party anecdote. And the editor at a publishing 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.080 house said, why don't you write about advertising? What's up 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.400 with this ad blocking stuff? And I said, oh, all right, wow, 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.040 So what was the impetus of deciding to go on 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.440 gardening leave, Like, did you get to a place where 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.320 you had grown into where you want to see what 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.000 makes somebody who is started something, to where it's at 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:49.240 the point that you can step away middle age, honestly, 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.760 So I was there for a decade, give or take, 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.680 and I was just tired, so burnt out, it's time 0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:00.400 to walk away. The circumstances were right, and I think 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.600 if you get old, you start thinking of your life 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.160 in chapters like this, this is the only thing I'm 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.360 ever going to do. And you mentioned publishing, So I've 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.240 been publishing. I wasted my teens in t when he's 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.360 trying to play music. So from rock God to magazine 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.720 dude to add guy, and then you start thinking, do 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.000 I have time for any more chapters? Madonna could do it, 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.600 other people can do it. You can reinvent yourself, right. 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:26.119 I think she's done now now I'm kidding. So then Tribeca, 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.880 Tribeca came along. Yeah, And what did that look like 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.800 when the opportunity came across your desk? Amazing? I mean, 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.120 it's not every day you find yourself sitting in a 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.400 room with Robert in your own Jane Rosenthal and talking 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:41.600 about ways to improve what they did, which was incredible, 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.760 And it was also very familiar working with amazing creative people, 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.320 working with brands, working with experiences, which are increasingly important 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.680 to me, and I just felt very familiar. People always 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:54.600 said how do you go from magazines to advertising? But 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:58.320 same kind of vibe. Incredibly creative people in saying deadlines, 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.680 the search for relevance and audience. So I just see 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.880 these all at the intersection of media, marketing, entertainment and technology. Yeah, totally. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:08.919 I have a question because I was thinking about this earlier. 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.520 Do you guys at Tribeca Enterprises do you look at 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:19.320 a specific other brand or entity as a competitor? Uh? Ish, 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.960 there are a lot of different players, but I don't 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.159 think anyone does exactly what Tribeca Enterprises does. Can you 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.920 explain because some people thought dolf I know, you know 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:30.919 the vast majority special on the film festival and all 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.200 the things that culture points us too and saying like 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.520 this is a part of what you do, but can 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.520 you kind of explain the breath of it? Okay, and 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.040 I'm trying not to be boring here, but it's a 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.880 little complicated. So that you mentioned the film festival, that's 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:47.120 the core, but even the phrase film festival increasingly out 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.720 of tune to a lot of people's ears. What's film? 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:54.919 It's a great point. The festival is really more about 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.800 the live element and an event that becomes more eventful. 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:02.920 So film is always core, but we do r are gaming, talks, happenings, 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.159 And the fact of the matter is that this is 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:10.119 underwritten by brands. So we have to figure out a 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:14.240 way to help brands rethink their relationship to a live 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.560 event in a world in which sponsorship is just about 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.639 the sexiest traditional advertising. So how do you take a 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.879 brand and God help me natively integrated into an experience. 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.240 That's part of the challenge. So Trepic Enterprises helps brands 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.879 think about live experiences in a relevant way, and we 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.119 also use our relationship with artists to make content with 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:41.480 brands that doesn't feel like advertising. So our product is experience, access, 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.280 and content all under one roof, and it's really hard 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:46.359 to find anything that's like that. You can go directly 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.040 to artists or talent agencies for access, you can go 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.040 to other live events for experiences, and you can go 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.120 to other players for content, but to get all three 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.919 and one under one roof is pretty tough. Now you 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.600 have a disruption, like is it a studio? Is it 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.919 a lab? Everybody's got a lab. You gotta have that. 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.040 You must have a lab that's really just a place 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.639 for more to be two be conversation to put people 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:14.080 on stage cmos next to filmmakers or showrunners. Okay, because 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.200 I was thinking about this and I was like, you know, really, 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:20.920 Tribeca was, you know, the future of storytelling Fast. If 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.920 I would see if a friendly competitor, I would see 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.800 Fast as being your competitor of course, right, because they're 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.080 also pushing what's the future of storytelling? Which you guys 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:35.119 were doing starting back in two I have to think 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.520 about the festivals was a response to No. Eleven and 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.560 then those years, those seventeen years have been the most 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.360 tumultuous in the history of media. So Tribeca was conceived 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:47.080 before Netflix, let alone Twitter. Yeah, and now the question 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.080 is what's the role of the mobile device at a 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:51.840 film festival? How do you connect with the second screen 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:53.639 to the first screen? Is the first screen now the 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:58.240 second screen? How do you create experiences that involves storytelling? 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:00.919 So there was a time when you might want to 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.160 go see the next Moonlight, but now you can see 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.159 it on Netflix or iTunes. What's going to get you 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.800 out of the house? And that's a real interesting existential question. 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.840 So experience has become key. How do you get people 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:15.320 to experience something simultaneously. That's a really fun thing to 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.240 try to crack. Who do you think is doing that 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.680 well outside of Tribeca. I think Comic Con is interesting. 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.479 When a Game of Thrones premieres a show at Barkley's Arena, 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.320 that's fascinating. So you talk about a football stadium and 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.960 all these people on their feet screaming. How do you 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:36.520 connect that to storytelling? And technology now enables that and 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.159 I think that's the future of the live event. We 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.520 agree like how to present Mike dropt like we talk 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.399 about it all the time because there otherwise there's no 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:47.480 reason to leave the house if you can get everything 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.480 you want with one click of the button. Except community. 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.680 I mean, I was right, I mean the human touch. 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:55.240 And Laura and I have been talking about this a 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:59.880 lot lately, which is we're actually more into analog experience, 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:05.600 is right, It's the return of analog by the way, 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.480 that is I'm holding up the book right now, like 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:10.439 I couldn't agree more. I want to just draw a 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:12.320 parallel because something that you just said a little while 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.119 ago is really interesting to me, and that you know 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.040 why people love to see executives in the ad industry 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.960 or why executives in the ad industry love to sit 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:24.320 on stage next to filmmakers or Hollywood types, and because 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:25.840 at the end of the day, we're going down this 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.359 parallel road where we're in the entertainment business in some way, 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.240 shape or form. We have to tell stories. We have 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:32.800