Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are
Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.
Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.
Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're
Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you
Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? And
Speaker 1: it really is? What's up? I'm Laura Curnti and I'm
Speaker 1: Alexa Kristen. Welcome back to Atlantia, episode sixteen. So we've
Speaker 1: got a funny, smart guy coming in, Andrew Essex. He's
Speaker 1: going to talk to us about the end of advertising
Speaker 1: and what he's been doing over at Tribeca Enterprises for
Speaker 1: the last year or two since he's been there. But
Speaker 1: before we get into that, you had fun at the
Speaker 1: IB podcast up fronts. Yes, and did we get a
Speaker 1: lot of good reaction. I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: were talking about, you know, a lot of podcasts that
Speaker 1: they want to check out, at Landia being one of them.
Speaker 1: So we're very excited. If you have friends that haven't
Speaker 1: listened to Atlantia, tell them. But I think with this
Speaker 1: year in the upfront different than especially year. Last year
Speaker 1: was very very focused on UM content and the inventory right.
Speaker 1: This year was really focused on measurement and data and UM,
Speaker 1: there were things you know, folks were saying, like people
Speaker 1: podcast listeners have said that they would be open to
Speaker 1: more podcasts advertising. I love the fact that and I
Speaker 1: don't know if Panoply would hate me for saying this,
Speaker 1: but I love the fact that there's actually not a
Speaker 1: ton of inventory in podcasts. And I also love the
Speaker 1: fact that hosts are the people UM hosting. They're very
Speaker 1: well thought full producers. As I look at cam, UM
Speaker 1: have the ability to agree to do host reads and
Speaker 1: have certain advertisers on their shows because I at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, we are doing this because we
Speaker 1: love it. We're doing it because ay weren't part of
Speaker 1: a community. But also we want to build a community
Speaker 1: right around a genre or a certain topic. And I
Speaker 1: think that ating more inventory into a podcast could be
Speaker 1: just clutter. You know, it's interesting. I totally agree with
Speaker 1: your point as usual, UM, but I but I think, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, controlling the context might be the wrong way
Speaker 1: of saying it, but definitely protecting the context of the show,
Speaker 1: I think it's important. UM, it's interesting I was dabbling
Speaker 1: with a couple of top ten podcasts recently and came
Speaker 1: across one where there were about for seven host reads
Speaker 1: and then many ad breaks in between the content, which
Speaker 1: a made the show very, very long, and understanding that
Speaker 1: the show is is a hot show and high demand,
Speaker 1: and so there was six minute show, an hour long show.
Speaker 1: It was upwards of forty five minutes plus, but I
Speaker 1: would say a good majority of that went the way
Speaker 1: of ads, and I just I felt like it was
Speaker 1: too long, it was too muddied. I was like, I
Speaker 1: wanted to fast forward through the ads and audio UM,
Speaker 1: which obviously, as a podcast host and somebody who's in
Speaker 1: the industry, I was curious to listen to them. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I was like, Okay, I just
Speaker 1: want to get back into the interview. And so I
Speaker 1: think that there's a danger in saturation and as an industry,
Speaker 1: we need to be really careful UM. Understanding that this
Speaker 1: is a very intimate medium. It's the only thing, UM
Speaker 1: might be one of the only things I'm paying attention to,
Speaker 1: and like, I don't want to feel aggravated and annoyed
Speaker 1: before I even get to the show starting, So like,
Speaker 1: let's not create the pre role before the pre role,
Speaker 1: before the pre role. Let's like preserve the content experience
Speaker 1: and give people what they came for. I also think
Speaker 1: like we have the opportunity, and I have to say,
Speaker 1: I was in meetings before, so I couldn't make it
Speaker 1: to the whole day, so I only got to the afternoon.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if people talked about this, but
Speaker 1: there's a huge opportunity I think in audio, to in
Speaker 1: streaming audio or on demand audio UM to rethink how
Speaker 1: advertising is done. You know, it's been typically kind of
Speaker 1: taking the radio model and applying it with UM, I
Speaker 1: think more success because it is something that you download
Speaker 1: and something that you select right to listen to very specifically.
Speaker 1: I think there's a huge opportunity to think about advertising
Speaker 1: and the personality and the talent together in a way
Speaker 1: that makes more sense. And there's you know, and I
Speaker 1: don't know how you monetize that, but we can. I
Speaker 1: feel very confident that we can. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: in a world where we're trying to standardize everything, and
Speaker 1: that's what you know, the i B does is like
Speaker 1: create these great standards that the industry can kind of
Speaker 1: march towards and monetize and be successful. Um. Both from
Speaker 1: an advertiser perspective and a publisher perspective right supply side,
Speaker 1: demand side, It's still a really niscent form of media
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, podcasting, and I think
Speaker 1: that right now is the time to start rethinking it.
Speaker 1: And I'm not against standards. I'm all for standards, but
Speaker 1: let's start. Let's start being really freaking imaginative with creating
Speaker 1: something and then setting a standard. I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of brands are looking to figure out how they
Speaker 1: get into this space. They know now that they probably
Speaker 1: should get into the space people were talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: and a couple of years ago, you know, ten percent
Speaker 1: of major brands said that podcasting was going to be
Speaker 1: a part of their media mix. Now it's like way
Speaker 1: more than that, right. I think people know that they
Speaker 1: should be in podcasting, I'm not sure they totally understand
Speaker 1: yet why. And I think that we have to go
Speaker 1: in and we have to educate people both on the
Speaker 1: agency side and on the brand side and let them
Speaker 1: use this as a new playground for creativity UM and
Speaker 1: work with hosts and do things like that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that UM, I was
Speaker 1: following on Twitter from at Moss Appeal, who's somebody who
Speaker 1: follows us at at Landia said some of the themes
Speaker 1: that she saw it this year's upfront included what she
Speaker 1: felt was a maturity in terms of, like seeing the
Speaker 1: platform growing. I think that's what you're saying, Like we've
Speaker 1: moved past now the point of finding people to make content,
Speaker 1: Like there's definitely no shortage of content in the podcasting space,
Speaker 1: and we're starting to think about now how we create
Speaker 1: these prescriptive ways to measure and to advertise and all
Speaker 1: of these sorts of things. But you noticed that there
Speaker 1: was a push UM for more branded content, a direct
Speaker 1: appeal for title sponsors UM, and definitely a need for
Speaker 1: case study stats. And so, you know, take it or
Speaker 1: leave it. I think that what we're getting to is
Speaker 1: it is so ripe the time is now UM and
Speaker 1: people need to recognize that. But before we destroy a
Speaker 1: medium with seven pre rolls in a show, what are
Speaker 1: the limitations? And I gotta be honest, like that doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily just fall on the agency or the advertiser. The
Speaker 1: show creators and the producers and the publishers also need
Speaker 1: to be respectful of the audience experience and and figuring
Speaker 1: out ways to monetize in a way where they're not
Speaker 1: losing margin. So is it not coming up with five
Speaker 1: pre rolls to pay your your host or you know,
Speaker 1: is it coming up with the best two minute with
Speaker 1: a brand that owns, you know, a season. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of conversation about the scription shows and um
Speaker 1: subscription services, and I think that we're going to see
Speaker 1: a lot more of that in this space, and I'm
Speaker 1: all for it. I just want someone to like package
Speaker 1: up or give me an opportunity where I can pick
Speaker 1: a bundle because I'm not listening. I love Panoply. I
Speaker 1: listen to most of Panoply shows. I don't just listen
Speaker 1: to Panoply shows. I listen to w n i C shows.
Speaker 1: I love to listen to NPR shows. I let you right,
Speaker 1: And I think that many many listeners are like that.
Speaker 1: They also right now because it's such a nissent industry,
Speaker 1: they don't even know, not always they do. If they've
Speaker 1: been listeners for a while, or if they've somehow been
Speaker 1: in the industry, they're not paying attention typically to the network.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a time right now where networks
Speaker 1: actually really interesting point. Yeah, they're not paying attention to
Speaker 1: the network. So the opportunity to think about subscription here
Speaker 1: in a different way as well, uh is right for
Speaker 1: taking And if a network actually ends up doing that,
Speaker 1: right they actually strike a deal to do some kind
Speaker 1: of skinny skinny bundle. I mean that's right for media companies, right,
Speaker 1: Like who's to say in New York Times or fast
Speaker 1: Co or any of these thought leader publications couldn't come
Speaker 1: to the table and actually create that sort of same
Speaker 1: offering our service or licensing content to do that. But
Speaker 1: I agree, yes, but I think that that's going to
Speaker 1: potentially change people's associations all of a sudden with networks,
Speaker 1: or at least the awareness factor of networks. And I
Speaker 1: think that's really interesting. Um So, it was like it
Speaker 1: does like w M I C become or a gimlet
Speaker 1: become like the title of music, right, where like you
Speaker 1: have to subscribe the only place you can get these
Speaker 1: shows and if you're craving the talent, which let's be honest,
Speaker 1: that's what people are rallying around in this industry. It's
Speaker 1: not like flipping a channel. It's about opting in to
Speaker 1: listen to a perspective, presumably, Yeah, why has an iTunes
Speaker 1: done it? Why they're coming? I think so with all
Speaker 1: the original content and things that they're doing, I think
Speaker 1: that they that it makes the most sense for them.
Speaker 1: So you think to move away from being the pipes
Speaker 1: to the actual No, they'll still be the pipe, but
Speaker 1: they'll be the tow on network. Interesting. Uh, panically, you
Speaker 1: know Full Disclosure, who produces our podcast, had a great
Speaker 1: presentation on their megaphone media platform UM, which is really
Speaker 1: the first one in the industry that truly does as
Speaker 1: much tracking and measurement. I think that is possible. They're
Speaker 1: really looking at demographics. They also put in place the
Speaker 1: whole UM New marketplace, so the Megaphone marketplace where people
Speaker 1: can buy audiences UM and that's the first time that's
Speaker 1: been done. And then they have a partnership with Nielsen
Speaker 1: also the first time that's been done. Also, the first
Speaker 1: time that's been done. One thing I wish folks would
Speaker 1: have been talking about is okay, awesome, Then how do
Speaker 1: I start looking at that data and start applying those
Speaker 1: audiences and started applying some of the insights on subscription
Speaker 1: and what they're listening to outside of podcasting, outside of audio.
Speaker 1: I actually, for me, I am a big believer that
Speaker 1: podcasting is a gateway to a more psychographic view. And
Speaker 1: Save America is done with some of their I r
Speaker 1: L events, you know what I mean. It's it's ways
Speaker 1: to maximize go to where the listeners are, figuring out
Speaker 1: how you produce events around particular points in your show
Speaker 1: when you're seeing a high activation point or where you're
Speaker 1: seeing a low drop off and pivoting and figuring out
Speaker 1: how to backfill that content. So yeah, I think data
Speaker 1: is gonna be As a host, I'm super interested to
Speaker 1: see and get access to, you know, what people are
Speaker 1: thinking about, how they're engaging with the product, and ultimately
Speaker 1: where they are who they are. I mean, we know,
Speaker 1: you know who some of them are small batch in
Speaker 1: in our social following, but you know, outside of that,
Speaker 1: I think there's much to be learned. And I would
Speaker 1: also say, like I think there were a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, advertisers in the audience. I just I really
Speaker 1: like we've talked to some advertisers on this show, and
Speaker 1: we like so appreciate everyone that supports us. And I
Speaker 1: think that the advertisers on the show of written in
Speaker 1: some cases a lot of work that we can read
Speaker 1: and that is personal to us, and I kind of
Speaker 1: understand the brand, but I would say push that even further,
Speaker 1: work with your talent more. Um So I think that
Speaker 1: that's something that the you know, I'd love that to
Speaker 1: see them talk about Diabe and the podcast upfront more
Speaker 1: next year about the creativity side of this. So with that,
Speaker 1: Andrew Essex and the end of advertising, don't don't do.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. So we're back in the studio
Speaker 1: with the one and all name. We've like pod stalk
Speaker 1: to you. Andrew Essex. Welcome. So Andrew is the CEO
Speaker 1: of Tribeca Enterprises and a former admin. Do you consider
Speaker 1: yourself a former admin or just ad man? I think
Speaker 1: you are always an ad man once you've been an adman. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it goes deep, it goes deep. You've got those jazz hands.
Speaker 1: They don't come off for that just for the ad industry.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about your history because one thing that
Speaker 1: I think is really interesting and put some of the
Speaker 1: things that you've done recently into context, is you started
Speaker 1: as a journalist. Right started your career as a journalist
Speaker 1: where at the New York Cooperator, where you may have
Speaker 1: read my piece on what to do when your dormant
Speaker 1: is sleeping on the job. It was shortlisted for a Pulitzer.
Speaker 1: That's not true, but actually that's where it worked. It
Speaker 1: was a shitty little trade publication and from there I
Speaker 1: somehow got a job at The New Yorker. That was
Speaker 1: like the beginning of the end, the end of Dormant,
Speaker 1: the end of Dormant. That's yeah, totally. So I want
Speaker 1: to get to your book, which is the end of
Speaker 1: advertising and not the end of Dorman. But that's going
Speaker 1: to be the sequel. Um. But I want to talk
Speaker 1: about your career because I think puting the book into
Speaker 1: context of your career is really important. So you went
Speaker 1: from journalism into advertising. How did you get into advertising? Well, frankly,
Speaker 1: David Orga was a friend of mine and we had
Speaker 1: just talked about working together in some way. He was
Speaker 1: the global creative chairman of Publicists, and I was at
Speaker 1: a magazine that I think was shut down in a
Speaker 1: poker game, and we just thought, it's gotta be a
Speaker 1: better way, and that was really it. It was just
Speaker 1: it was kind of a crazed ambition and timing. Let's
Speaker 1: just start something. And he had a few other people
Speaker 1: there were already and we didn't have to reverse engineer anything.
Speaker 1: We were just built for the future and the timing
Speaker 1: was right. And so were you a part of the
Speaker 1: five of dro Droka five? Were one of the original five.
Speaker 1: I'd like to say that's true, or it was about
Speaker 1: five principles, but that's actually a reference to the number
Speaker 1: that his mother stitched in the clothes because he's the
Speaker 1: fifth of five children. That's where the I never did
Speaker 1: you know, Allien very Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like the Jackson five, like I just or
Speaker 1: was it? Marlon? Definitely want to be if I were
Speaker 1: you Germaine. Okay, so you started Droka with David Droga
Speaker 1: and then you were there till recently two thousand and
Speaker 1: thirteen to be exact, so ten years giver take an
Speaker 1: incredible ride. When I was there, there were six people,
Speaker 1: and when I left there fifty people and it's probably
Speaker 1: double since I left, which is telling signs and Global Global. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just an amazing run and incredible time in
Speaker 1: the business for a variety of obvious reasons, but people
Speaker 1: who were committed to just making work that didn't suck,
Speaker 1: which was a fun thing to be associated with. Now,
Speaker 1: did you start working on the book end of advertising
Speaker 1: before you left Droca? Afterwards? After so the agency sold
Speaker 1: William Morris, which has been well documented. And I left
Speaker 1: after two years and was on what Amanda Robertson would
Speaker 1: call gardening leave and had not thing to do. I know,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine Andrew Robson gardening by the way, it's
Speaker 1: an englishism, britishism. So I learned how to make composts
Speaker 1: and shuffered my kids to camp and thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I should probably write something, And wanted to write a
Speaker 1: story about the dual origin of heroin Naspirin, which is
Speaker 1: a story I'm obsessed with. But yeah, I couldn't sell
Speaker 1: that as a full on book. It's just really just
Speaker 1: the cocktail party anecdote. And the editor at a publishing
Speaker 1: house said, why don't you write about advertising? What's up
Speaker 1: with this ad blocking stuff? And I said, oh, all right, wow,
Speaker 1: So what was the impetus of deciding to go on
Speaker 1: gardening leave, Like, did you get to a place where
Speaker 1: you had grown into where you want to see what
Speaker 1: makes somebody who is started something, to where it's at
Speaker 1: the point that you can step away middle age, honestly,
Speaker 1: So I was there for a decade, give or take,
Speaker 1: and I was just tired, so burnt out, it's time
Speaker 1: to walk away. The circumstances were right, and I think
Speaker 1: if you get old, you start thinking of your life
Speaker 1: in chapters like this, this is the only thing I'm
Speaker 1: ever going to do. And you mentioned publishing, So I've
Speaker 1: been publishing. I wasted my teens in t when he's
Speaker 1: trying to play music. So from rock God to magazine
Speaker 1: dude to add guy, and then you start thinking, do
Speaker 1: I have time for any more chapters? Madonna could do it,
Speaker 1: other people can do it. You can reinvent yourself, right.
Speaker 1: I think she's done now now I'm kidding. So then Tribeca,
Speaker 1: Tribeca came along. Yeah, And what did that look like
Speaker 1: when the opportunity came across your desk? Amazing? I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not every day you find yourself sitting in a
Speaker 1: room with Robert in your own Jane Rosenthal and talking
Speaker 1: about ways to improve what they did, which was incredible,
Speaker 1: And it was also very familiar working with amazing creative people,
Speaker 1: working with brands, working with experiences, which are increasingly important
Speaker 1: to me, and I just felt very familiar. People always
Speaker 1: said how do you go from magazines to advertising? But
Speaker 1: same kind of vibe. Incredibly creative people in saying deadlines,
Speaker 1: the search for relevance and audience. So I just see
Speaker 1: these all at the intersection of media, marketing, entertainment and technology. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: I have a question because I was thinking about this earlier.
Speaker 1: Do you guys at Tribeca Enterprises do you look at
Speaker 1: a specific other brand or entity as a competitor? Uh? Ish,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of different players, but I don't
Speaker 1: think anyone does exactly what Tribeca Enterprises does. Can you
Speaker 1: explain because some people thought dolf I know, you know
Speaker 1: the vast majority special on the film festival and all
Speaker 1: the things that culture points us too and saying like
Speaker 1: this is a part of what you do, but can
Speaker 1: you kind of explain the breath of it? Okay, and
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to be boring here, but it's a
Speaker 1: little complicated. So that you mentioned the film festival, that's
Speaker 1: the core, but even the phrase film festival increasingly out
Speaker 1: of tune to a lot of people's ears. What's film?
Speaker 1: It's a great point. The festival is really more about
Speaker 1: the live element and an event that becomes more eventful.
Speaker 1: So film is always core, but we do r are gaming, talks, happenings,
Speaker 1: And the fact of the matter is that this is
Speaker 1: underwritten by brands. So we have to figure out a
Speaker 1: way to help brands rethink their relationship to a live
Speaker 1: event in a world in which sponsorship is just about
Speaker 1: the sexiest traditional advertising. So how do you take a
Speaker 1: brand and God help me natively integrated into an experience.
Speaker 1: That's part of the challenge. So Trepic Enterprises helps brands
Speaker 1: think about live experiences in a relevant way, and we
Speaker 1: also use our relationship with artists to make content with
Speaker 1: brands that doesn't feel like advertising. So our product is experience, access,
Speaker 1: and content all under one roof, and it's really hard
Speaker 1: to find anything that's like that. You can go directly
Speaker 1: to artists or talent agencies for access, you can go
Speaker 1: to other live events for experiences, and you can go
Speaker 1: to other players for content, but to get all three
Speaker 1: and one under one roof is pretty tough. Now you
Speaker 1: have a disruption, like is it a studio? Is it
Speaker 1: a lab? Everybody's got a lab. You gotta have that.
Speaker 1: You must have a lab that's really just a place
Speaker 1: for more to be two be conversation to put people
Speaker 1: on stage cmos next to filmmakers or showrunners. Okay, because
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this and I was like, you know, really,
Speaker 1: Tribeca was, you know, the future of storytelling Fast. If
Speaker 1: I would see if a friendly competitor, I would see
Speaker 1: Fast as being your competitor of course, right, because they're
Speaker 1: also pushing what's the future of storytelling? Which you guys
Speaker 1: were doing starting back in two I have to think
Speaker 1: about the festivals was a response to No. Eleven and
Speaker 1: then those years, those seventeen years have been the most
Speaker 1: tumultuous in the history of media. So Tribeca was conceived
Speaker 1: before Netflix, let alone Twitter. Yeah, and now the question
Speaker 1: is what's the role of the mobile device at a
Speaker 1: film festival? How do you connect with the second screen
Speaker 1: to the first screen? Is the first screen now the
Speaker 1: second screen? How do you create experiences that involves storytelling?
Speaker 1: So there was a time when you might want to
Speaker 1: go see the next Moonlight, but now you can see
Speaker 1: it on Netflix or iTunes. What's going to get you
Speaker 1: out of the house? And that's a real interesting existential question.
Speaker 1: So experience has become key. How do you get people
Speaker 1: to experience something simultaneously. That's a really fun thing to
Speaker 1: try to crack. Who do you think is doing that
Speaker 1: well outside of Tribeca. I think Comic Con is interesting.
Speaker 1: When a Game of Thrones premieres a show at Barkley's Arena,
Speaker 1: that's fascinating. So you talk about a football stadium and
Speaker 1: all these people on their feet screaming. How do you
Speaker 1: connect that to storytelling? And technology now enables that and
Speaker 1: I think that's the future of the live event. We
Speaker 1: agree like how to present Mike dropt like we talk
Speaker 1: about it all the time because there otherwise there's no
Speaker 1: reason to leave the house if you can get everything
Speaker 1: you want with one click of the button. Except community.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was right, I mean the human touch.
Speaker 1: And Laura and I have been talking about this a
Speaker 1: lot lately, which is we're actually more into analog experience,
Speaker 1: is right, It's the return of analog by the way,
Speaker 1: that is I'm holding up the book right now, like
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. I want to just draw a
Speaker 1: parallel because something that you just said a little while
Speaker 1: ago is really interesting to me, and that you know
Speaker 1: why people love to see executives in the ad industry
Speaker 1: or why executives in the ad industry love to sit
Speaker 1: on stage next to filmmakers or Hollywood types, and because
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, we're going down this
Speaker 1: parallel road where we're in the entertainment business in some way,
Speaker 1: shape or form. We have to tell stories. We have
Speaker 1: to make people fall in love with our brands, we
Speaker 1: have to make them feel emotion and illicit reaction. To
Speaker 1: some degree, I do something right. But presumably technology and
Speaker 1: community are bringing these things closer together. And now you're
Speaker 1: seeing people like William Morris take at stake in Droga.
Speaker 1: You're starting to see CIA become a partner at the
Speaker 1: table in the mix of agencies, not because you want
Speaker 1: somebody to do an endorsement deal, because the way in
Speaker 1: which they're thinking about production and storylines. You're seeing new
Speaker 1: rooms like T Brand and your friend Meredith's group over
Speaker 1: the New York Times have a table in the publishing
Speaker 1: world but also a foot in the door and production.
Speaker 1: Why do you think this is happening where worlds that
Speaker 1: were completely separate and had nothing to do with one
Speaker 1: another are now coming to this place where they're actually
Speaker 1: one and the same. That's a very big question. Robert
Speaker 1: kinsel I was mentioning. The chief business officer YouTube has
Speaker 1: a new book called Steampunks, and he talks about how
Speaker 1: YouTube essentially got rid of the gatekeepers and democratized content.
Speaker 1: So we were told for years and years what worked
Speaker 1: by five or six white guys, and now a quilting
Speaker 1: person in Kentucky can generate a massive audience. So I
Speaker 1: think this fragmentation has produced a kind of new authenticity
Speaker 1: where anything that's good finds an audience and anything goes.
Speaker 1: There are downsides of this too, but I'm trying to
Speaker 1: avoid all the cliches that you know better than anyone,
Speaker 1: but all the old rules are completely broken. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: So when you were writing this book, where did you
Speaker 1: intend to start and did that differ from where you
Speaker 1: ended completely? Because just to say it again, I sincerely
Speaker 1: was obsessed with this origin story. I like unintended consequences,
Speaker 1: how do things happen? And there's an section of the
Speaker 1: book that I'm very proud of which was based on
Speaker 1: some research about the origin of two of the most
Speaker 1: bizarre products that are actually brother and brother siblings. In bear.
Speaker 1: The German pharmaceutical company launched this thing called aspirin, but
Speaker 1: the same three dudes, all in their thirties, invented heroin.
Speaker 1: It was a real product, This is not bullshit, and
Speaker 1: it was on the shelves for by eight years. And
Speaker 1: I just thought, that's an amazing story because one of
Speaker 1: them is benign and one of them is evil, but
Speaker 1: they were both launched as medicine to make you feel better.
Speaker 1: So it made me think, what is authentic? What's artifice?
Speaker 1: It seemed like a fantastic metaphor for the entire industry,
Speaker 1: and that's what I started to do, and then I
Speaker 1: sort of built the rest of the book around that.
Speaker 1: I think that, uh, the End of Advertising probably got
Speaker 1: a lot of people kind of riled up. Did you
Speaker 1: have You said you got death threats? Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: just one or two, you know, some bomb in my mailbox.
Speaker 1: Now I think, look, the real title is the End
Speaker 1: of Bad Advertising, rovertising. It's just less clickable, right, you
Speaker 1: have to have a little hyperbole. You asked me if
Speaker 1: I'm still an admin. So that's the cell side, but
Speaker 1: we all know that that, um, the paradigm is shifting.
Speaker 1: So at Tribeca right now, what are the things that
Speaker 1: you're doing with brands that you're really excited about that
Speaker 1: you can tell us about or you can break it here.
Speaker 1: Maybe you're doing something. We just did a fantastic project
Speaker 1: for Heineken, which is essentially a film about plus Pool,
Speaker 1: which is that water filtering. So this is a brand
Speaker 1: that's increasingly allergic to interruption. They want to talk about
Speaker 1: cool st they're doing when they don't want the beer featured.
Speaker 1: They want the story told presented by the beer. So really,
Speaker 1: at a high level we're doing is trying to bring
Speaker 1: bands back to ge theater, which is again we we
Speaker 1: we We did a great initiative with a T and
Speaker 1: T called Untold Stories. They wanted to see more diversity
Speaker 1: in storytelling, found a hundred scripts by people of color
Speaker 1: and narrowed it down to ten. Ten people pitched, they
Speaker 1: picked a winner, gave the winner a million dollars to
Speaker 1: make a film that will premiere at Rebeca and then
Speaker 1: be broadcast on direct TV. So they got a fly
Speaker 1: will effect. I think that's very cool just working with
Speaker 1: IBM to crowdsource creativity with Watson, anytime that we can
Speaker 1: invert the traditional sponsorship model and help brands make content,
Speaker 1: we went it was it fair to say you're an
Speaker 1: agency that also has a distribution pipe. Well, you know
Speaker 1: what's funny is that my dear friend Meredith and my
Speaker 1: dear friend Justin have used the word You begin with
Speaker 1: the S words your studio, and you don't necessarily want
Speaker 1: to use the A words. So we have a studio
Speaker 1: that helps brands make authentic content. Agency implies advertising. So
Speaker 1: our code is we do nine seconds to ninety minutes,
Speaker 1: but never thirty seconds like that. Is that your tagline?
Speaker 1: It's on my tattooed on my left I'm glad I
Speaker 1: don't see it. So, but presumably you're able to own
Speaker 1: them the distribution of that content you're creating, or at
Speaker 1: least provide a platform, which is what Sebastian Tomas has
Speaker 1: told us post Meredith Leving's interview here in a big
Speaker 1: article that he um was featured in talking about at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, like all signs for T
Speaker 1: Brand presumably point to becoming an independent shop. I think
Speaker 1: Meredith is brilliant. I think T Brand is brilliant because
Speaker 1: they have audience, they have editorial pedigree, and now they
Speaker 1: can leverage that by telling stories for brands that are
Speaker 1: in keeping with the tradition. At the times we are
Speaker 1: not a media company. We are an event, so we
Speaker 1: have a platform where we can premiere our content, but
Speaker 1: we can be unapologetically agnostic about distribution and partner with
Speaker 1: anyone who has the audience that brand is trying to reach.
Speaker 1: So I am everybody's best partner. As they used to
Speaker 1: say in the Mafia. If you want to reach if
Speaker 1: you want to reach audience X, we partner with X.
Speaker 1: If you want to reach audience, Why we partnered with audience?
Speaker 1: Why you could become a media company. Well, I think
Speaker 1: the best device I ever got is only do what
Speaker 1: only you can do. So let me give an example.
Speaker 1: At the Trebeka Film Festival, we closed with The Godfather
Speaker 1: one and two at Radio City. Now you could arguely
Speaker 1: see that on Netflix or at Film Forum, which you
Speaker 1: could not see anywhere else, was the entire cast on stage,
Speaker 1: De Niro, Puccino, Francis Ford, Coppola, Duval, James Cohn, all there,
Speaker 1: Diane Keaton and then to take that live conversation and
Speaker 1: stream it on Facebook Live was a game changer because
Speaker 1: from a hundred and fifty thousand attendees to four point
Speaker 1: five million viewer US in the streaming aspects. So we
Speaker 1: achieve the digital dream. I mean, is there a platform
Speaker 1: that everybody's talking about Facebook? Everybody talks about Facebook, but
Speaker 1: is there are a platform that you are most interested
Speaker 1: in seeing do something different than it's doing direct TV?
Speaker 1: Now M read it. I think Reddit is going to
Speaker 1: be interesting. God when redd it pivots to video, the
Speaker 1: inevitable pivots of the pivoting and other things that are genius.
Speaker 1: So I think you're going to see them finally sort
Speaker 1: of live up to the potential massive audience they've already aggregated.
Speaker 1: I think those are two very interesting stories. I love
Speaker 1: what you guys are doing it um kindly, just this
Speaker 1: idea of building a network around this magnificent theater of
Speaker 1: the mind medium. Yes, that's exactly how we started. In fact,
Speaker 1: someone asked us why didn't you start doing videos? Who
Speaker 1: are like, no, no, no, no no no, this is what
Speaker 1: we do and we do it well. There's a lot
Speaker 1: to be said and doesn't mean we're not going to
Speaker 1: go into video. But having these types of conversations I
Speaker 1: think allows people to really dream and think. When we
Speaker 1: did g podcast theater that was the that was it
Speaker 1: that it wasn't wasn't about when everyone was doing video
Speaker 1: or like, no, we're going to go into that. I
Speaker 1: also haven't been able to keep up with my spray
Speaker 1: to and so that's really another part of the reason
Speaker 1: that you're laughing, But that's actually true. That's what you
Speaker 1: pivot a video exactly. So as you think, like, you know,
Speaker 1: the idea that you're talking a lot about community and
Speaker 1: I r L. We had a fabulous episode UM Early
Speaker 1: Days in Atlantia, which is like a couple of months
Speaker 1: ago UM with our buddy David Pots over at Atlas
Speaker 1: Obscura and kind of tapping into this notion of what
Speaker 1: you were talking about cults and communities and this idea
Speaker 1: that analog presents an opportunity for us to engage with
Speaker 1: one another. If there's not tech attached to that, what
Speaker 1: is the reason then for people to step outside of
Speaker 1: their living rooms. What brands do you think have really
Speaker 1: embraced that, UM and what are the ones where you're like,
Speaker 1: why aren't you doing this the opportunity? I think complex
Speaker 1: complex Con is a great example of that love. She
Speaker 1: loves smart Echo like those guys hugely underestimate and disrespected,
Speaker 1: but building taking a media company and then making an
Speaker 1: event around a genuinely enthused audience. But I r L
Speaker 1: is such an important thing. You just said this idea
Speaker 1: that you take something, you create this concentrated moment of excitement,
Speaker 1: you basically productize FOMO, and then you use new platforms
Speaker 1: to achieve scale. Yes, future of advertising, it's achieved scale,
Speaker 1: but it's also places where you can have meaningful interaction. Right. So,
Speaker 1: platforms that I think have an opportunity to think about
Speaker 1: how they're going to interact off device, off screen right now,
Speaker 1: stand to actually kill it. I totally agree. Right, what
Speaker 1: would you tell people who are young in the industry
Speaker 1: now over Oh, as the old guy who was once young,
Speaker 1: I know that feeling of staring at the person sitting
Speaker 1: get out of the way, ground pa, and you have
Speaker 1: to understand that this is a young person's industry. And um,
Speaker 1: we do not put enough people in positions of power,
Speaker 1: particularly the agency business. But they have to have the confidence,
Speaker 1: in the in the courage of their convictions. If there
Speaker 1: were more people who were fluent in vertical video at
Speaker 1: certain shops, they would be in better position. They'd be
Speaker 1: fighting back people who understand how to make something with
Speaker 1: the sound off, because that's what the audience wants just
Speaker 1: go push someone out of the chair respectfully. Please respect,
Speaker 1: don't break a hip. I love it. And on that note,
Speaker 1: on that note, it's time killed by d I y
Speaker 1: with andrew Essex. Alright, so let's would you kill? I
Speaker 1: would kill the extended pa odd that happens when I'm
Speaker 1: on the treadmill. So I the only time I watch
Speaker 1: appointment television is six or seven o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 1: where I walk like a fucking gerbil on a on
Speaker 1: a wheel, and I watch cable news. And there's one
Speaker 1: show that I like, Okay, Morning Joe host. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to name names, but I guess I like Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: I just contradicted myself. And they have twenty minutes of
Speaker 1: uninterrupted really cool stuff. And then there's a horror of endless,
Speaker 1: completely erroneous as we should have. You meet with Mika
Speaker 1: and Joe and talk about I just tell me where
Speaker 1: to show up, and I just want to record like
Speaker 1: what happens. But they don't probably even know because they're
Speaker 1: not watching it. They're in the studio. People are happy,
Speaker 1: and you probably know they're pretty And there now running
Speaker 1: a contest where you can actually win an opportunity to
Speaker 1: sit in the studio, So maybe you can actually then
Speaker 1: get behind the production camera and refuse to go to
Speaker 1: commercial times, which makes me think about something else to kill. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I know you probably have run off time. But the
Speaker 1: fact that people can buy and add free experience and
Speaker 1: others can't because it's too expensive, that's going to create problems.
Speaker 1: Then what do you think about subscription services? I love
Speaker 1: subscription services, but I don't like the fact that some
Speaker 1: people can't and they're penalized ads. So you're creating another
Speaker 1: kind of divide that Linda bo said the same exact thing.
Speaker 1: We totally agree. Yeah, yeah, she went like rogue and
Speaker 1: listened to the free version and was like, funk this.
Speaker 1: You mean it's better or it's expensive experience? And I yeah,
Speaker 1: who would not choose the paid version? But some people
Speaker 1: can't afford it? Yeah, but what happens when everything starts
Speaker 1: turning into a subscription service. Everything is turning into a
Speaker 1: subscrit we have a Darwinian shakeout, like at the news stand? Right, yep,
Speaker 1: totally correction as a big correction. That's terrifying. All right,
Speaker 1: kill two things. You got to whit, didn't we just
Speaker 1: kill something? Now you just killed two things you're killing
Speaker 1: all over. What would you buy? I would buy into
Speaker 1: the glass? So why would you buy them? I just
Speaker 1: like media businesses built around verticals from the ground up,
Speaker 1: as opposed to reverse engineering for a char new world
Speaker 1: they don't understand. But why into the glass because you
Speaker 1: could say that with a lot of okay, because that
Speaker 1: category has some of the least imaginative. Totally respect to
Speaker 1: Penelope CRUs wonderful, but just actress plus lip glass is
Speaker 1: not an idea, all right? So what would you do yourself?
Speaker 1: I would create a body waxing studio that didn't hurt that.
Speaker 1: We know way too much about Andrew Essex right now.
Speaker 1: Body waxing, I love it. Into the glass you're a
Speaker 1: man with many many faces, I think. I think so,
Speaker 1: andrew Essex, the end of Advertising, CEO of Tribeca Enterprises,
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on the show. Where can people reach?
Speaker 1: Okay at andrew Essex on everything? Twitter is probably the best.
Speaker 1: Okay you want to give up numbers or your waxing place,
Speaker 1: Well that's that's competition. Okay, Andrew Essex, this has been
Speaker 1: such an amazing conversation. Why don't you come back? I
Speaker 1: need you to come back. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me, Thank you, thank you. Well, folks, we saw
Speaker 1: the end of advertising and now we're seeing the end
Speaker 1: of Atlantia. Just this episode, don't worry big Thanks to
Speaker 1: Cameron Drew's our producer as always, our family and friends
Speaker 1: at Panically, including Matt Turk and Any Bowers. Don't forget
Speaker 1: to like us, follow us, comment on social Atlantia podcast.
Speaker 1: Thanks everyone in Atlantia. We'll see you in two weeks.
Speaker 1: Full disclosure. Our opinions are our own.