1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 7 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? And 8 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: it really is? What's up? I'm Laura Curnti and I'm 9 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Alexa Kristen. Welcome back to Atlantia, episode sixteen. So we've 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: got a funny, smart guy coming in, Andrew Essex. He's 11 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: going to talk to us about the end of advertising 12 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: and what he's been doing over at Tribeca Enterprises for 13 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: the last year or two since he's been there. But 14 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: before we get into that, you had fun at the 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: IB podcast up fronts. Yes, and did we get a 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: lot of good reaction. I think a lot of people 17 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: were talking about, you know, a lot of podcasts that 18 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: they want to check out, at Landia being one of them. 19 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: So we're very excited. If you have friends that haven't 20 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: listened to Atlantia, tell them. But I think with this 21 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: year in the upfront different than especially year. Last year 22 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:06,279 Speaker 1: was very very focused on UM content and the inventory right. 23 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: This year was really focused on measurement and data and UM, 24 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,919 Speaker 1: there were things you know, folks were saying, like people 25 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: podcast listeners have said that they would be open to 26 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: more podcasts advertising. I love the fact that and I 27 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: don't know if Panoply would hate me for saying this, 28 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: but I love the fact that there's actually not a 29 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: ton of inventory in podcasts. And I also love the 30 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: fact that hosts are the people UM hosting. They're very 31 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: well thought full producers. As I look at cam, UM 32 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: have the ability to agree to do host reads and 33 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: have certain advertisers on their shows because I at the 34 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: end of the day, we are doing this because we 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: love it. We're doing it because ay weren't part of 36 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: a community. But also we want to build a community 37 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: right around a genre or a certain topic. And I 38 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: think that ating more inventory into a podcast could be 39 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: just clutter. You know, it's interesting. I totally agree with 40 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: your point as usual, UM, but I but I think, uh, 41 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, controlling the context might be the wrong way 42 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: of saying it, but definitely protecting the context of the show, 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: I think it's important. UM, it's interesting I was dabbling 44 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: with a couple of top ten podcasts recently and came 45 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: across one where there were about for seven host reads 46 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: and then many ad breaks in between the content, which 47 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: a made the show very, very long, and understanding that 48 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: the show is is a hot show and high demand, 49 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: and so there was six minute show, an hour long show. 50 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: It was upwards of forty five minutes plus, but I 51 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: would say a good majority of that went the way 52 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: of ads, and I just I felt like it was 53 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: too long, it was too muddied. I was like, I 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: wanted to fast forward through the ads and audio UM, 55 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: which obviously, as a podcast host and somebody who's in 56 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: the industry, I was curious to listen to them. But 57 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: at the same time, I was like, Okay, I just 58 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 1: want to get back into the interview. And so I 59 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: think that there's a danger in saturation and as an industry, 60 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: we need to be really careful UM. Understanding that this 61 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: is a very intimate medium. It's the only thing, UM 62 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: might be one of the only things I'm paying attention to, 63 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: and like, I don't want to feel aggravated and annoyed 64 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: before I even get to the show starting, So like, 65 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: let's not create the pre role before the pre role, 66 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: before the pre role. Let's like preserve the content experience 67 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: and give people what they came for. I also think 68 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: like we have the opportunity, and I have to say, 69 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: I was in meetings before, so I couldn't make it 70 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: to the whole day, so I only got to the afternoon. 71 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: So I don't know if people talked about this, but 72 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: there's a huge opportunity I think in audio, to in 73 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: streaming audio or on demand audio UM to rethink how 74 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: advertising is done. You know, it's been typically kind of 75 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: taking the radio model and applying it with UM, I 76 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: think more success because it is something that you download 77 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: and something that you select right to listen to very specifically. 78 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: I think there's a huge opportunity to think about advertising 79 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: and the personality and the talent together in a way 80 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: that makes more sense. And there's you know, and I 81 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: don't know how you monetize that, but we can. I 82 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: feel very confident that we can. And so, you know, 83 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: in a world where we're trying to standardize everything, and 84 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: that's what you know, the i B does is like 85 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: create these great standards that the industry can kind of 86 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: march towards and monetize and be successful. Um. Both from 87 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: an advertiser perspective and a publisher perspective right supply side, 88 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: demand side, It's still a really niscent form of media 89 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, podcasting, and I think 90 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: that right now is the time to start rethinking it. 91 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: And I'm not against standards. I'm all for standards, but 92 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: let's start. Let's start being really freaking imaginative with creating 93 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: something and then setting a standard. I think that a 94 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: lot of brands are looking to figure out how they 95 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: get into this space. They know now that they probably 96 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: should get into the space people were talking about, you know, 97 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: and a couple of years ago, you know, ten percent 98 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: of major brands said that podcasting was going to be 99 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,679 Speaker 1: a part of their media mix. Now it's like way 100 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: more than that, right. I think people know that they 101 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: should be in podcasting, I'm not sure they totally understand 102 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: yet why. And I think that we have to go 103 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: in and we have to educate people both on the 104 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: agency side and on the brand side and let them 105 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: use this as a new playground for creativity UM and 106 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: work with hosts and do things like that. So yeah, 107 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that UM, I was 108 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: following on Twitter from at Moss Appeal, who's somebody who 109 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: follows us at at Landia said some of the themes 110 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: that she saw it this year's upfront included what she 111 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: felt was a maturity in terms of, like seeing the 112 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: platform growing. I think that's what you're saying, Like we've 113 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: moved past now the point of finding people to make content, 114 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: Like there's definitely no shortage of content in the podcasting space, 115 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: and we're starting to think about now how we create 116 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: these prescriptive ways to measure and to advertise and all 117 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: of these sorts of things. But you noticed that there 118 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: was a push UM for more branded content, a direct 119 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: appeal for title sponsors UM, and definitely a need for 120 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: case study stats. And so, you know, take it or 121 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: leave it. I think that what we're getting to is 122 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: it is so ripe the time is now UM and 123 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: people need to recognize that. But before we destroy a 124 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: medium with seven pre rolls in a show, what are 125 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,119 Speaker 1: the limitations? And I gotta be honest, like that doesn't 126 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: necessarily just fall on the agency or the advertiser. The 127 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: show creators and the producers and the publishers also need 128 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: to be respectful of the audience experience and and figuring 129 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: out ways to monetize in a way where they're not 130 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: losing margin. So is it not coming up with five 131 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: pre rolls to pay your your host or you know, 132 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: is it coming up with the best two minute with 133 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: a brand that owns, you know, a season. There was 134 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: a lot of conversation about the scription shows and um 135 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: subscription services, and I think that we're going to see 136 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: a lot more of that in this space, and I'm 137 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: all for it. I just want someone to like package 138 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: up or give me an opportunity where I can pick 139 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: a bundle because I'm not listening. I love Panoply. I 140 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: listen to most of Panoply shows. I don't just listen 141 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: to Panoply shows. I listen to w n i C shows. 142 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: I love to listen to NPR shows. I let you right, 143 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: And I think that many many listeners are like that. 144 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: They also right now because it's such a nissent industry, 145 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: they don't even know, not always they do. If they've 146 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: been listeners for a while, or if they've somehow been 147 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: in the industry, they're not paying attention typically to the network. 148 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: And I think it's a time right now where networks 149 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: actually really interesting point. Yeah, they're not paying attention to 150 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: the network. So the opportunity to think about subscription here 151 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: in a different way as well, uh is right for 152 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: taking And if a network actually ends up doing that, 153 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: right they actually strike a deal to do some kind 154 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: of skinny skinny bundle. I mean that's right for media companies, right, 155 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: Like who's to say in New York Times or fast 156 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: Co or any of these thought leader publications couldn't come 157 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: to the table and actually create that sort of same 158 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: offering our service or licensing content to do that. But 159 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: I agree, yes, but I think that that's going to 160 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: potentially change people's associations all of a sudden with networks, 161 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: or at least the awareness factor of networks. And I 162 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: think that's really interesting. Um So, it was like it 163 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: does like w M I C become or a gimlet 164 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: become like the title of music, right, where like you 165 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: have to subscribe the only place you can get these 166 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: shows and if you're craving the talent, which let's be honest, 167 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: that's what people are rallying around in this industry. It's 168 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: not like flipping a channel. It's about opting in to 169 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: listen to a perspective, presumably, Yeah, why has an iTunes 170 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: done it? Why they're coming? I think so with all 171 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: the original content and things that they're doing, I think 172 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: that they that it makes the most sense for them. 173 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: So you think to move away from being the pipes 174 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: to the actual No, they'll still be the pipe, but 175 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: they'll be the tow on network. Interesting. Uh, panically, you 176 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: know Full Disclosure, who produces our podcast, had a great 177 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: presentation on their megaphone media platform UM, which is really 178 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: the first one in the industry that truly does as 179 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: much tracking and measurement. I think that is possible. They're 180 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 1: really looking at demographics. They also put in place the 181 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: whole UM New marketplace, so the Megaphone marketplace where people 182 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: can buy audiences UM and that's the first time that's 183 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: been done. And then they have a partnership with Nielsen 184 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: also the first time that's been done. Also, the first 185 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: time that's been done. One thing I wish folks would 186 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: have been talking about is okay, awesome, Then how do 187 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: I start looking at that data and start applying those 188 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: audiences and started applying some of the insights on subscription 189 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: and what they're listening to outside of podcasting, outside of audio. 190 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: I actually, for me, I am a big believer that 191 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: podcasting is a gateway to a more psychographic view. And 192 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: Save America is done with some of their I r 193 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: L events, you know what I mean. It's it's ways 194 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: to maximize go to where the listeners are, figuring out 195 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: how you produce events around particular points in your show 196 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: when you're seeing a high activation point or where you're 197 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: seeing a low drop off and pivoting and figuring out 198 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: how to backfill that content. So yeah, I think data 199 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: is gonna be As a host, I'm super interested to 200 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: see and get access to, you know, what people are 201 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: thinking about, how they're engaging with the product, and ultimately 202 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: where they are who they are. I mean, we know, 203 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: you know who some of them are small batch in 204 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: in our social following, but you know, outside of that, 205 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: I think there's much to be learned. And I would 206 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: also say, like I think there were a lot of 207 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, advertisers in the audience. I just I really 208 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: like we've talked to some advertisers on this show, and 209 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: we like so appreciate everyone that supports us. And I 210 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: think that the advertisers on the show of written in 211 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: some cases a lot of work that we can read 212 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: and that is personal to us, and I kind of 213 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: understand the brand, but I would say push that even further, 214 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: work with your talent more. Um So I think that 215 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: that's something that the you know, I'd love that to 216 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: see them talk about Diabe and the podcast upfront more 217 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: next year about the creativity side of this. So with that, 218 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: Andrew Essex and the end of advertising, don't don't do. 219 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. So we're back in the studio 220 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: with the one and all name. We've like pod stalk 221 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: to you. Andrew Essex. Welcome. So Andrew is the CEO 222 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: of Tribeca Enterprises and a former admin. Do you consider 223 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: yourself a former admin or just ad man? I think 224 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: you are always an ad man once you've been an adman. Yeah, 225 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: it goes deep, it goes deep. You've got those jazz hands. 226 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: They don't come off for that just for the ad industry. 227 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,599 Speaker 1: So let's talk about your history because one thing that 228 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: I think is really interesting and put some of the 229 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: things that you've done recently into context, is you started 230 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: as a journalist. Right started your career as a journalist 231 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: where at the New York Cooperator, where you may have 232 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: read my piece on what to do when your dormant 233 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,239 Speaker 1: is sleeping on the job. It was shortlisted for a Pulitzer. 234 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: That's not true, but actually that's where it worked. It 235 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: was a shitty little trade publication and from there I 236 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: somehow got a job at The New Yorker. That was 237 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: like the beginning of the end, the end of Dormant, 238 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: the end of Dormant. That's yeah, totally. So I want 239 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: to get to your book, which is the end of 240 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: advertising and not the end of Dorman. But that's going 241 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: to be the sequel. Um. But I want to talk 242 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: about your career because I think puting the book into 243 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: context of your career is really important. So you went 244 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: from journalism into advertising. How did you get into advertising? Well, frankly, 245 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: David Orga was a friend of mine and we had 246 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: just talked about working together in some way. He was 247 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: the global creative chairman of Publicists, and I was at 248 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: a magazine that I think was shut down in a 249 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: poker game, and we just thought, it's gotta be a 250 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: better way, and that was really it. It was just 251 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: it was kind of a crazed ambition and timing. Let's 252 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: just start something. And he had a few other people 253 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: there were already and we didn't have to reverse engineer anything. 254 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: We were just built for the future and the timing 255 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: was right. And so were you a part of the 256 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: five of dro Droka five? Were one of the original five. 257 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: I'd like to say that's true, or it was about 258 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: five principles, but that's actually a reference to the number 259 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: that his mother stitched in the clothes because he's the 260 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: fifth of five children. That's where the I never did 261 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, Allien very Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, 262 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: it was like the Jackson five, like I just or 263 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: was it? Marlon? Definitely want to be if I were 264 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: you Germaine. Okay, so you started Droka with David Droga 265 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: and then you were there till recently two thousand and 266 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: thirteen to be exact, so ten years giver take an 267 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: incredible ride. When I was there, there were six people, 268 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: and when I left there fifty people and it's probably 269 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: double since I left, which is telling signs and Global Global. Yeah. Yeah, 270 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: it was just an amazing run and incredible time in 271 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: the business for a variety of obvious reasons, but people 272 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: who were committed to just making work that didn't suck, 273 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: which was a fun thing to be associated with. Now, 274 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: did you start working on the book end of advertising 275 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: before you left Droca? Afterwards? After so the agency sold 276 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: William Morris, which has been well documented. And I left 277 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: after two years and was on what Amanda Robertson would 278 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: call gardening leave and had not thing to do. I know, 279 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: I can't imagine Andrew Robson gardening by the way, it's 280 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: an englishism, britishism. So I learned how to make composts 281 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: and shuffered my kids to camp and thought, you know, 282 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: I should probably write something, And wanted to write a 283 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: story about the dual origin of heroin Naspirin, which is 284 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: a story I'm obsessed with. But yeah, I couldn't sell 285 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: that as a full on book. It's just really just 286 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: the cocktail party anecdote. And the editor at a publishing 287 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: house said, why don't you write about advertising? What's up 288 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: with this ad blocking stuff? And I said, oh, all right, wow, 289 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: So what was the impetus of deciding to go on 290 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: gardening leave, Like, did you get to a place where 291 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: you had grown into where you want to see what 292 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: makes somebody who is started something, to where it's at 293 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: the point that you can step away middle age, honestly, 294 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: So I was there for a decade, give or take, 295 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: and I was just tired, so burnt out, it's time 296 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: to walk away. The circumstances were right, and I think 297 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: if you get old, you start thinking of your life 298 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: in chapters like this, this is the only thing I'm 299 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: ever going to do. And you mentioned publishing, So I've 300 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: been publishing. I wasted my teens in t when he's 301 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: trying to play music. So from rock God to magazine 302 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: dude to add guy, and then you start thinking, do 303 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: I have time for any more chapters? Madonna could do it, 304 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: other people can do it. You can reinvent yourself, right. 305 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:26,119 Speaker 1: I think she's done now now I'm kidding. So then Tribeca, 306 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: Tribeca came along. Yeah, And what did that look like 307 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: when the opportunity came across your desk? Amazing? I mean, 308 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: it's not every day you find yourself sitting in a 309 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: room with Robert in your own Jane Rosenthal and talking 310 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: about ways to improve what they did, which was incredible, 311 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: And it was also very familiar working with amazing creative people, 312 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: working with brands, working with experiences, which are increasingly important 313 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: to me, and I just felt very familiar. People always 314 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: said how do you go from magazines to advertising? But 315 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: same kind of vibe. Incredibly creative people in saying deadlines, 316 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: the search for relevance and audience. So I just see 317 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: these all at the intersection of media, marketing, entertainment and technology. Yeah, totally. 318 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: I have a question because I was thinking about this earlier. 319 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: Do you guys at Tribeca Enterprises do you look at 320 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: a specific other brand or entity as a competitor? Uh? Ish, 321 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: there are a lot of different players, but I don't 322 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: think anyone does exactly what Tribeca Enterprises does. Can you 323 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: explain because some people thought dolf I know, you know 324 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: the vast majority special on the film festival and all 325 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: the things that culture points us too and saying like 326 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: this is a part of what you do, but can 327 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: you kind of explain the breath of it? Okay, and 328 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm trying not to be boring here, but it's a 329 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: little complicated. So that you mentioned the film festival, that's 330 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: the core, but even the phrase film festival increasingly out 331 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: of tune to a lot of people's ears. What's film? 332 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: It's a great point. The festival is really more about 333 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: the live element and an event that becomes more eventful. 334 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: So film is always core, but we do r are gaming, talks, happenings, 335 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: And the fact of the matter is that this is 336 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 1: underwritten by brands. So we have to figure out a 337 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: way to help brands rethink their relationship to a live 338 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: event in a world in which sponsorship is just about 339 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: the sexiest traditional advertising. So how do you take a 340 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: brand and God help me natively integrated into an experience. 341 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: That's part of the challenge. So Trepic Enterprises helps brands 342 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: think about live experiences in a relevant way, and we 343 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: also use our relationship with artists to make content with 344 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: brands that doesn't feel like advertising. So our product is experience, access, 345 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: and content all under one roof, and it's really hard 346 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: to find anything that's like that. You can go directly 347 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: to artists or talent agencies for access, you can go 348 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: to other live events for experiences, and you can go 349 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: to other players for content, but to get all three 350 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: and one under one roof is pretty tough. Now you 351 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: have a disruption, like is it a studio? Is it 352 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: a lab? Everybody's got a lab. You gotta have that. 353 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: You must have a lab that's really just a place 354 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: for more to be two be conversation to put people 355 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: on stage cmos next to filmmakers or showrunners. Okay, because 356 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this and I was like, you know, really, 357 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: Tribeca was, you know, the future of storytelling Fast. If 358 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: I would see if a friendly competitor, I would see 359 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: Fast as being your competitor of course, right, because they're 360 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: also pushing what's the future of storytelling? Which you guys 361 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: were doing starting back in two I have to think 362 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: about the festivals was a response to No. Eleven and 363 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: then those years, those seventeen years have been the most 364 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: tumultuous in the history of media. So Tribeca was conceived 365 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: before Netflix, let alone Twitter. Yeah, and now the question 366 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: is what's the role of the mobile device at a 367 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: film festival? How do you connect with the second screen 368 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: to the first screen? Is the first screen now the 369 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: second screen? How do you create experiences that involves storytelling? 370 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: So there was a time when you might want to 371 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: go see the next Moonlight, but now you can see 372 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: it on Netflix or iTunes. What's going to get you 373 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: out of the house? And that's a real interesting existential question. 374 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: So experience has become key. How do you get people 375 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: to experience something simultaneously. That's a really fun thing to 376 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: try to crack. Who do you think is doing that 377 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: well outside of Tribeca. I think Comic Con is interesting. 378 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 1: When a Game of Thrones premieres a show at Barkley's Arena, 379 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: that's fascinating. So you talk about a football stadium and 380 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: all these people on their feet screaming. How do you 381 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: connect that to storytelling? And technology now enables that and 382 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: I think that's the future of the live event. We 383 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: agree like how to present Mike dropt like we talk 384 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: about it all the time because there otherwise there's no 385 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: reason to leave the house if you can get everything 386 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: you want with one click of the button. Except community. 387 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I was right, I mean the human touch. 388 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: And Laura and I have been talking about this a 389 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: lot lately, which is we're actually more into analog experience, 390 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: is right, It's the return of analog by the way, 391 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: that is I'm holding up the book right now, like 392 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. I want to just draw a 393 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: parallel because something that you just said a little while 394 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: ago is really interesting to me, and that you know 395 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: why people love to see executives in the ad industry 396 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: or why executives in the ad industry love to sit 397 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: on stage next to filmmakers or Hollywood types, and because 398 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, we're going down this 399 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: parallel road where we're in the entertainment business in some way, 400 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: shape or form. We have to tell stories. We have 401 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: to make people fall in love with our brands, we 402 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: have to make them feel emotion and illicit reaction. To 403 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,239 Speaker 1: some degree, I do something right. But presumably technology and 404 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: community are bringing these things closer together. And now you're 405 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: seeing people like William Morris take at stake in Droga. 406 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: You're starting to see CIA become a partner at the 407 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: table in the mix of agencies, not because you want 408 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: somebody to do an endorsement deal, because the way in 409 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: which they're thinking about production and storylines. You're seeing new 410 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: rooms like T Brand and your friend Meredith's group over 411 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: the New York Times have a table in the publishing 412 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: world but also a foot in the door and production. 413 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: Why do you think this is happening where worlds that 414 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: were completely separate and had nothing to do with one 415 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: another are now coming to this place where they're actually 416 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: one and the same. That's a very big question. Robert 417 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: kinsel I was mentioning. The chief business officer YouTube has 418 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: a new book called Steampunks, and he talks about how 419 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: YouTube essentially got rid of the gatekeepers and democratized content. 420 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: So we were told for years and years what worked 421 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: by five or six white guys, and now a quilting 422 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: person in Kentucky can generate a massive audience. So I 423 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: think this fragmentation has produced a kind of new authenticity 424 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: where anything that's good finds an audience and anything goes. 425 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: There are downsides of this too, but I'm trying to 426 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: avoid all the cliches that you know better than anyone, 427 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: but all the old rules are completely broken. Yeah, totally. 428 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: So when you were writing this book, where did you 429 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: intend to start and did that differ from where you 430 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: ended completely? Because just to say it again, I sincerely 431 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: was obsessed with this origin story. I like unintended consequences, 432 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: how do things happen? And there's an section of the 433 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: book that I'm very proud of which was based on 434 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: some research about the origin of two of the most 435 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: bizarre products that are actually brother and brother siblings. In bear. 436 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: The German pharmaceutical company launched this thing called aspirin, but 437 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: the same three dudes, all in their thirties, invented heroin. 438 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: It was a real product, This is not bullshit, and 439 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: it was on the shelves for by eight years. And 440 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: I just thought, that's an amazing story because one of 441 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: them is benign and one of them is evil, but 442 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: they were both launched as medicine to make you feel better. 443 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: So it made me think, what is authentic? What's artifice? 444 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: It seemed like a fantastic metaphor for the entire industry, 445 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: and that's what I started to do, and then I 446 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: sort of built the rest of the book around that. 447 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: I think that, uh, the End of Advertising probably got 448 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: a lot of people kind of riled up. Did you 449 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: have You said you got death threats? Yeah, I was 450 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: just one or two, you know, some bomb in my mailbox. 451 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: Now I think, look, the real title is the End 452 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: of Bad Advertising, rovertising. It's just less clickable, right, you 453 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: have to have a little hyperbole. You asked me if 454 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: I'm still an admin. So that's the cell side, but 455 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: we all know that that, um, the paradigm is shifting. 456 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: So at Tribeca right now, what are the things that 457 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: you're doing with brands that you're really excited about that 458 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: you can tell us about or you can break it here. 459 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: Maybe you're doing something. We just did a fantastic project 460 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: for Heineken, which is essentially a film about plus Pool, 461 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: which is that water filtering. So this is a brand 462 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: that's increasingly allergic to interruption. They want to talk about 463 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: cool st they're doing when they don't want the beer featured. 464 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: They want the story told presented by the beer. So really, 465 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: at a high level we're doing is trying to bring 466 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: bands back to ge theater, which is again we we 467 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: we We did a great initiative with a T and 468 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: T called Untold Stories. They wanted to see more diversity 469 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: in storytelling, found a hundred scripts by people of color 470 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: and narrowed it down to ten. Ten people pitched, they 471 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: picked a winner, gave the winner a million dollars to 472 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: make a film that will premiere at Rebeca and then 473 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: be broadcast on direct TV. So they got a fly 474 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: will effect. I think that's very cool just working with 475 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: IBM to crowdsource creativity with Watson, anytime that we can 476 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: invert the traditional sponsorship model and help brands make content, 477 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: we went it was it fair to say you're an 478 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: agency that also has a distribution pipe. Well, you know 479 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: what's funny is that my dear friend Meredith and my 480 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: dear friend Justin have used the word You begin with 481 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: the S words your studio, and you don't necessarily want 482 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: to use the A words. So we have a studio 483 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: that helps brands make authentic content. Agency implies advertising. So 484 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: our code is we do nine seconds to ninety minutes, 485 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: but never thirty seconds like that. Is that your tagline? 486 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: It's on my tattooed on my left I'm glad I 487 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: don't see it. So, but presumably you're able to own 488 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: them the distribution of that content you're creating, or at 489 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: least provide a platform, which is what Sebastian Tomas has 490 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: told us post Meredith Leving's interview here in a big 491 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: article that he um was featured in talking about at 492 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: the end of the day, like all signs for T 493 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: Brand presumably point to becoming an independent shop. I think 494 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: Meredith is brilliant. I think T Brand is brilliant because 495 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: they have audience, they have editorial pedigree, and now they 496 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: can leverage that by telling stories for brands that are 497 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: in keeping with the tradition. At the times we are 498 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: not a media company. We are an event, so we 499 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: have a platform where we can premiere our content, but 500 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,719 Speaker 1: we can be unapologetically agnostic about distribution and partner with 501 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: anyone who has the audience that brand is trying to reach. 502 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: So I am everybody's best partner. As they used to 503 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: say in the Mafia. If you want to reach if 504 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: you want to reach audience X, we partner with X. 505 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: If you want to reach audience, Why we partnered with audience? 506 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: Why you could become a media company. Well, I think 507 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: the best device I ever got is only do what 508 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: only you can do. So let me give an example. 509 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: At the Trebeka Film Festival, we closed with The Godfather 510 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: one and two at Radio City. Now you could arguely 511 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: see that on Netflix or at Film Forum, which you 512 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: could not see anywhere else, was the entire cast on stage, 513 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: De Niro, Puccino, Francis Ford, Coppola, Duval, James Cohn, all there, 514 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: Diane Keaton and then to take that live conversation and 515 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: stream it on Facebook Live was a game changer because 516 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: from a hundred and fifty thousand attendees to four point 517 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: five million viewer US in the streaming aspects. So we 518 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: achieve the digital dream. I mean, is there a platform 519 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: that everybody's talking about Facebook? Everybody talks about Facebook, but 520 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 1: is there are a platform that you are most interested 521 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: in seeing do something different than it's doing direct TV? 522 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: Now M read it. I think Reddit is going to 523 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: be interesting. God when redd it pivots to video, the 524 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: inevitable pivots of the pivoting and other things that are genius. 525 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: So I think you're going to see them finally sort 526 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: of live up to the potential massive audience they've already aggregated. 527 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: I think those are two very interesting stories. I love 528 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: what you guys are doing it um kindly, just this 529 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: idea of building a network around this magnificent theater of 530 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: the mind medium. Yes, that's exactly how we started. In fact, 531 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: someone asked us why didn't you start doing videos? Who 532 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: are like, no, no, no, no no no, this is what 533 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: we do and we do it well. There's a lot 534 00:28:58,400 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: to be said and doesn't mean we're not going to 535 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: go into video. But having these types of conversations I 536 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: think allows people to really dream and think. When we 537 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: did g podcast theater that was the that was it 538 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: that it wasn't wasn't about when everyone was doing video 539 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: or like, no, we're going to go into that. I 540 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: also haven't been able to keep up with my spray 541 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: to and so that's really another part of the reason 542 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: that you're laughing, But that's actually true. That's what you 543 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: pivot a video exactly. So as you think, like, you know, 544 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: the idea that you're talking a lot about community and 545 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: I r L. We had a fabulous episode UM Early 546 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: Days in Atlantia, which is like a couple of months 547 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: ago UM with our buddy David Pots over at Atlas 548 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: Obscura and kind of tapping into this notion of what 549 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: you were talking about cults and communities and this idea 550 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: that analog presents an opportunity for us to engage with 551 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: one another. If there's not tech attached to that, what 552 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: is the reason then for people to step outside of 553 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: their living rooms. What brands do you think have really 554 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: embraced that, UM and what are the ones where you're like, 555 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: why aren't you doing this the opportunity? I think complex 556 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: complex Con is a great example of that love. She 557 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: loves smart Echo like those guys hugely underestimate and disrespected, 558 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: but building taking a media company and then making an 559 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: event around a genuinely enthused audience. But I r L 560 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: is such an important thing. You just said this idea 561 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: that you take something, you create this concentrated moment of excitement, 562 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: you basically productize FOMO, and then you use new platforms 563 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: to achieve scale. Yes, future of advertising, it's achieved scale, 564 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: but it's also places where you can have meaningful interaction. Right. So, 565 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: platforms that I think have an opportunity to think about 566 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: how they're going to interact off device, off screen right now, 567 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: stand to actually kill it. I totally agree. Right, what 568 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: would you tell people who are young in the industry 569 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: now over Oh, as the old guy who was once young, 570 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: I know that feeling of staring at the person sitting 571 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: get out of the way, ground pa, and you have 572 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: to understand that this is a young person's industry. And um, 573 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: we do not put enough people in positions of power, 574 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: particularly the agency business. But they have to have the confidence, 575 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: in the in the courage of their convictions. If there 576 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: were more people who were fluent in vertical video at 577 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: certain shops, they would be in better position. They'd be 578 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: fighting back people who understand how to make something with 579 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: the sound off, because that's what the audience wants just 580 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: go push someone out of the chair respectfully. Please respect, 581 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: don't break a hip. I love it. And on that note, 582 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: on that note, it's time killed by d I y 583 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: with andrew Essex. Alright, so let's would you kill? I 584 00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: would kill the extended pa odd that happens when I'm 585 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: on the treadmill. So I the only time I watch 586 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: appointment television is six or seven o'clock in the morning, 587 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: where I walk like a fucking gerbil on a on 588 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: a wheel, and I watch cable news. And there's one 589 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: show that I like, Okay, Morning Joe host. I'm not 590 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: going to name names, but I guess I like Donald Trump. 591 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: I just contradicted myself. And they have twenty minutes of 592 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: uninterrupted really cool stuff. And then there's a horror of endless, 593 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: completely erroneous as we should have. You meet with Mika 594 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: and Joe and talk about I just tell me where 595 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: to show up, and I just want to record like 596 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: what happens. But they don't probably even know because they're 597 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: not watching it. They're in the studio. People are happy, 598 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: and you probably know they're pretty And there now running 599 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: a contest where you can actually win an opportunity to 600 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: sit in the studio, So maybe you can actually then 601 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: get behind the production camera and refuse to go to 602 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: commercial times, which makes me think about something else to kill. Sorry, 603 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: I know you probably have run off time. But the 604 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: fact that people can buy and add free experience and 605 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: others can't because it's too expensive, that's going to create problems. 606 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: Then what do you think about subscription services? I love 607 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: subscription services, but I don't like the fact that some 608 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: people can't and they're penalized ads. So you're creating another 609 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: kind of divide that Linda bo said the same exact thing. 610 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: We totally agree. Yeah, yeah, she went like rogue and 611 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: listened to the free version and was like, funk this. 612 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: You mean it's better or it's expensive experience? And I yeah, 613 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: who would not choose the paid version? But some people 614 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: can't afford it? Yeah, but what happens when everything starts 615 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: turning into a subscription service. Everything is turning into a 616 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: subscrit we have a Darwinian shakeout, like at the news stand? Right, yep, 617 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:46,959 Speaker 1: totally correction as a big correction. That's terrifying. All right, 618 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: kill two things. You got to whit, didn't we just 619 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: kill something? Now you just killed two things you're killing 620 00:33:52,800 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: all over. What would you buy? I would buy into 621 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: the glass? So why would you buy them? I just 622 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: like media businesses built around verticals from the ground up, 623 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: as opposed to reverse engineering for a char new world 624 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: they don't understand. But why into the glass because you 625 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: could say that with a lot of okay, because that 626 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: category has some of the least imaginative. Totally respect to 627 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: Penelope CRUs wonderful, but just actress plus lip glass is 628 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,439 Speaker 1: not an idea, all right? So what would you do yourself? 629 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: I would create a body waxing studio that didn't hurt that. 630 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: We know way too much about Andrew Essex right now. 631 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: Body waxing, I love it. Into the glass you're a 632 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: man with many many faces, I think. I think so, 633 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: andrew Essex, the end of Advertising, CEO of Tribeca Enterprises, 634 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 1: thank you for coming on the show. Where can people reach? 635 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,439 Speaker 1: Okay at andrew Essex on everything? Twitter is probably the best. 636 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: Okay you want to give up numbers or your waxing place, 637 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 1: Well that's that's competition. Okay, Andrew Essex, this has been 638 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: such an amazing conversation. Why don't you come back? I 639 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: need you to come back. Thank you so much for 640 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: having me, Thank you, thank you. Well, folks, we saw 641 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: the end of advertising and now we're seeing the end 642 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: of Atlantia. Just this episode, don't worry big Thanks to 643 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: Cameron Drew's our producer as always, our family and friends 644 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: at Panically, including Matt Turk and Any Bowers. Don't forget 645 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: to like us, follow us, comment on social Atlantia podcast. 646 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: Thanks everyone in Atlantia. We'll see you in two weeks. 647 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: Full disclosure. Our opinions are our own.