1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: name is Noel. They call me Ben. We are joined 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, 7 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: you are you. You are here, and that makes this 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. I have a 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: question for the table and for everyone listening to set 10 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: off this episode. Here it goes, if you could, if 11 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: you could enhance yourself through some sort of technological or 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: even um genetic means, what what kind of thing would you, 13 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: guys choose? I would want to spoiler? You would want 14 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: to spoiler? Yeah, so I could run faster. I would 15 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: cut down my wind resistance, so I'd wear a windbreaker 16 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: and then have my spoiler so I would be unstoppable. 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: Got it? Got it? Correct? You here though that spoiler, 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: and you tell me if I'm wrong about this, But 19 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: I think that spoiler is to actually provide a tiny 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: bit of drag. Isn't it to push the air down? 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: I need some down force, form a running sitch and 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: that's what I'm looking for. Spoiler. Would it be mounted 23 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: on like your posterior or your shoulders, but yes, it 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: would be on both. Would have a dual spoiler because 25 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: surely where one is good, too is bad double double good? 26 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: And what a lot of mods think had some air 27 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: events and you're good to go? Yeah, what about you, Matt? 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: For me, it would be something that would enhance my 29 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: either vision or hearing capabilities. I think hearing would be 30 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: a lot of fun, especially because I've got pretty bad 31 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: hearing as of the moment due to those drums. You're 32 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:00,919 Speaker 1: really making me feel like I've squ undered my choice. 33 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: I should have thought this through a little more. I 34 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: guess I would want to live forever. You would want 35 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: to live forever. I wish your horses. Yeah, I get okay, totally. 36 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: They are horses live forever with the option to kill myself. 37 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: So somehow it's always on the table. Yeah, tell me 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: about it. Somehow modify yourselves to not die off in 39 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: to prevent some of that inevitable decay we are. There's 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: good and bad news, right. The good news is that 41 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: in each of the things we described, we'll ask Paul 42 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: off air. In each of the attributes we described. While 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: we may not be able to get the full realization 44 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: of our wishes, we have different types of technology that 45 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: can can help us. We can we have the technology, 46 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: to quote bionic Man, to build, for instance, a spoiler 47 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: hoodie right or spoiler slacks. We have hearing technology that 48 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: can improve someone's natural hearing. We do have some anti 49 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: aging stuff, but that's probably more controversial. It's weird because 50 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: we're talking today sort of about do it yourself medicine 51 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: d I Y medicine, and human experimentation has been, historically speaking, 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: one of the most controversial issues in this realm. The 53 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: controversy continues in the modern day here in because recent 54 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: medical innovations and breakthroughs have allowed for affordable, if super risky, 55 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: self experimentation. We have officially entered the age of do 56 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: it yourself biology. They's sometimes referred to as bio hacking. 57 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: Next question, what the hell is that? Well? This one 58 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: is also interesting because the human experimentation that we're talking 59 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: about historically has often been against people's will, and this 60 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: enters this adds another angle to it. It's almost like 61 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: assisted suicide, where it's like, this is my body, do 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: this to me? I would like to do this to myself. 63 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: So who is the onus of responsibility on it? On 64 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: the individual doing it? Are the people that are secretly 65 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: doing this research and not going through the proper channels 66 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: And we'll get to that right Yeah, and and so 67 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: the concept of bio hacking itself has to do with 68 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: any kind of activity that that exploits genetic material. Um 69 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: this is gonna be like humans and their genetic material 70 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: or animals, but in the in most cases with the 71 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: d I Y stuff, it's on yourself. So it's human 72 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: genetic material and you're experimenting with this stuff without regard 73 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: to whatever the accepted standards are, like what the f 74 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: d A might say, Um, and you this is generally 75 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: done for either these kind of um self startup kind 76 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: of ventures or for just an individual or sometimes even 77 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: for criminal purposes. Yeah, that's what you will hear alarmist reporting. 78 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: They'll say, these these crazy kids, these insane bio hackers 79 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: are going to change something about themselves or potentially in 80 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: the future, something about their unwitting victims. And this sounds 81 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: like it's the stuff of science fiction, but it is 82 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: real to some degree, and it's related to other discipline 83 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: Jill here other words described in in the same conversations, 84 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: there's grinding, the practice of installing technological devices in the 85 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: human body, such as magnetic sensors. I think we talked 86 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: about that on the show previously, right, Yeah, a lot 87 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: of times you'll hear the term wet where dealing with 88 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: these things. And it's also related to something called nutri genomics, 89 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: if you've heard about this one, this one I had knock. 90 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: So it's the use of um it's leveraging genetic information 91 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: to determine effects of nutrition and um what what how 92 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: the foods you intake and the substances you intake can 93 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: affect a change in your biology. Of course, neither grinding 94 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: nor nutro genomics are particularly new. People have been installing 95 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: medical devices and human bodies for decades and decades and decades. 96 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: If you're sneak to this, you have probably at some 97 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: point met someone who had a pacemaker. Yeah, And on 98 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: the subject in nutri genomics, it's really easy to say, Hey, 99 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: isn't that just you know, a diet, Yeah, just like 100 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: eat better? Yeah? Or are we talking about like some 101 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: of these Alex Jones remedies you know, yeah? Whatever? Ingesting 102 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: then at what point does something go from the realm 103 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: of food to the realm of drugs? You know what 104 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: I mean? Like it's like a supplement versus a medication. 105 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: This is something my wife has been talking with me 106 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: recently because she follows someone called the medical medium. Who 107 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: is this guy who is I guess a nutritionist, but 108 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: he also claims the phrase medical medium. He claims to 109 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: be able to walk up to someone and basically say 110 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: what their ailments are without knowing anything about them. Can 111 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: he guess their age? And wait too? I'm assuming it 112 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: sounds like a parlor trick? Is it like the marbles 113 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: and the jar thing? Pretty much like blood and organs? 114 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: It feels like some kind of cold reading, right, That's 115 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: what I immediately, That's what triggers in me when I 116 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: hear it. But the guy didn't. I don't know if 117 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: he invented it, but he popularized this thing that is 118 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: very similar to neutro genomics, where it's um, what is 119 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: it celery juice that has become I guess all the 120 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: rage in wealthy parts of America or you just drink 121 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: celery juice all day long and it's going to change 122 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: your body somehow? Um, do they sell it at Whole Foods? 123 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: Do you have to juice at yourself? It was what 124 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: Diana told me is that it was sold out of 125 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: Whole Foods for a while there because this guy popularized 126 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: it so hard. So you can't find celler anymore. There's 127 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: a big rum seller would want to juice at yourself? Exactly? 128 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: Did you? Somebody checked me on this. But side note, 129 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: it is more expensive for your body clorically speaking to 130 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: consume celery like you're you're losing calories. This is my 131 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: belief because I've heard that too. I don't know if 132 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: it's true. All right, So let us know Celery fanatics 133 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: in the crowd, and if you are a Celery juice enthusiasts, 134 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: tell us about your nutro genomic journey. This stuff parallels 135 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: closely with a philosophy known as trans humanism, the idea 136 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: that through our own gut gumption technology and can do itiveness, 137 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: we can improve ourselves and become something that transcends the 138 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: idea of homo sapien. Yeah, it's a it's a cool idea. 139 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: It's fraught with problems. We we've talked before about the 140 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: Gadaga possibility. We've talked before about how the based on 141 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: the way the world works now, economically speaking, the first 142 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: people who would become truly trans human would likely be very, 143 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: very wealthy people or people who are transformed into weapons 144 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: of war. Unfortunately, that's that's just how how things look. 145 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: But our story today takes place in this murky world 146 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: of bio hack transhumanism. But this isn't exactly a dive 147 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: into the ethical complications of unsupervised self experimentation. In fact, 148 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: it's a little more true crime than tech. It's a 149 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: little more murder than medicine. It's time to meet Aaron 150 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: trey Wick. So. Aaron trey Wick was born December nineteenth, 151 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine UM. He was a trans humanism activist 152 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: and also the CEO of a company called Ascendance Biomedical, 153 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: which aimed to make new, revolutionary and affordable gene therapies 154 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: capable of treating previously incurable afflictions let's call them like 155 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: harpies or HIV things that medicine has yet to figure 156 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: out a solution for. That. We just people who have them, 157 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: they live with them, you know, for the rest of 158 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: their lives. Yeah, And the the emphasis there is on cure, right, 159 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: so not treatment. Not treatment. So most uh many disease 160 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: is or afflictions have very effective treatment regimens, right, and 161 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: they can repress the symptoms or the consequences of a condition, 162 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: but they will not cure it, which works out great 163 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: for pharmaceutical companies. And it's I'm not saying that that's 164 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: what they want to happen, but you know, somebody, somebody 165 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: paying you five dollars a month for the rest of 166 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: their life, that's a guaranteed income stream. We've kicked this 167 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: old chestnut down the street many a time, right where 168 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: it's like, does it benefit anyone that's making money off 169 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: of treatment to cure something? Are people actively holding back 170 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: said cure? I mean, it's it's a question that we 171 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: ask all the time, and I don't think we've seen 172 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: definitive proof that yes, that's definitely happening, but it sure 173 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: makes sense. There's definitely motivation there, you know. And it's 174 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: true that drugs Making drugs uh here in the US 175 00:10:55,120 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: is a labor intensive, very very difficult process lots of time, 176 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: not just because it's a needle in the haystack, and 177 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: the haystack is the human body, which we still don't 178 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:13,599 Speaker 1: fully understand, but also because of the bureaucratic oversight that's required, 179 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: and that comes into play here later. So trey Wick 180 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: was born in d C. He lived in Alabama. He 181 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: graduated with a degree in interdisciplinary studies, which is sort 182 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: of the just it's a very customizable degree, I guess 183 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: is a good way to put it. So interdisciplinary studies 184 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: will have you encountering your basic pre rex or your 185 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: core classes, the one oh ones, the eleven ones, and 186 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: then branching out into stuff that interests you more like 187 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: the intersection between history and biology or so on. Uh. 188 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: Trey Wick had no clinical science background whatsoever, no formal training, 189 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: no uh, no research experience, and critics were quick to 190 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: point this out. His critics and opponents also who hated 191 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: his frequent use of the C word or cure because 192 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: they felt it was essentially begging for increased scrutiny and 193 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: then possible litigation or legal action from the FDA, the 194 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: Food and Drug Administration. His first big splash into the 195 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: world of transhumanism and bio hacking came about in twos 196 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: sixteen when he worked with an outfit called the Global 197 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: Health Span Policy Institute, a nonprofit advocating investment in unorthodox 198 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: radical approaches to anti aging treatments. There's a story here, 199 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: and it may it may bias some of us against 200 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: trey Wick, but it is important to know it's completely true. 201 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: He got hired because the company was rutten by his 202 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: adoptive cousin person named Edwina Rogers. She was a lobbyist, 203 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: former advisor to w Bush because just really fast, because 204 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: tray Wick was not his given name. He was adopted 205 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: by the tray Wick family. That's correct. Yeah, he was 206 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: adopted adopted by the tray Wick family. And he's not 207 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: blood relation to Rogers. So he graduates from college and 208 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: he calls Rogers and asked for some career advice. She says, well, 209 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: what are you interested in? And one of the topics 210 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: that came up was the idea of life extension just 211 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: another way to package anti aging. That's a passion she 212 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: shared with him. And you know, by the time you 213 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: get towards the end of your individual story, most people 214 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: are very interested in life extension or anti aging. She 215 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: decided to start an organization dedicated to expanding healthy human lifetimes. 216 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: So she founded this g h p I and then 217 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: she installed trey Wick as the CEO. She also and 218 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, trying to be a good family member. She 219 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: also helped him move into the house that she and 220 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: her husband shared in Washington, d C. Three weeks into 221 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: his stay, things started to go south. Trey Wick told 222 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: her husband, told Roger's husband and Mr. Niemeyer that after 223 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: college he had lived in a tantric sex house in Colorado, 224 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: and he started talking about his experience there. Mr Niemeyer 225 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: was not happy or impressed, and we have a quote 226 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: from him about his opinion of Aaron trey Wick. He 227 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: had delusions that women wanted him. He'd be talking with 228 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: them and promising them meetings with senators, and this is 229 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: outside of the quote. He also said that at one 230 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: point Mr trey Wick referred to the women he slept 231 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: with as my skanks, all class, all class. So Rogers 232 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: realized fairly quickly into this that trey Wick was lying 233 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: to both her and her husband. Trey Wick was intercepting 234 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: professional correspondence that was meant for Rogers, and at least 235 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: once he took an airplane ticket and a conference invitation 236 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: on her behalf. So they said we want you to 237 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: come to this conference, and he said, oh, they must 238 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: be me or I want to go. You know, it's 239 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: just a little bit of a credit hog. And one 240 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: night in late March, when Roger's husband was out of town, 241 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: trey Wick attempted to force his way into her bedroom 242 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: at two in the morning. This was one of the 243 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: last straws. Rogers fires him on July seventeenth, sixteen. He 244 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: continues to tell people he works at the nonprofit for 245 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: about a year afterward, and then he goes on to 246 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: found what you have mentioned earlier in all as Sentence 247 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: Biomedical in TV. Yeah, that's right, and this organization had 248 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: a mission and it was quote to make cutting edge 249 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: biomedical technologies available for everyone. Uh. And there was of 250 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: course a controversy from the start. As you might imagine, 251 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: Ascendence aimed to save money by avoiding the rigor and 252 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: expense of clinical trials, those pesky clinical trials and f 253 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: D a oversight. Um, that's that seems highly problematic. Yeah, 254 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: and again it gets back to that whole idea of 255 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: those trials. That process is crazy, crazy expensive and also 256 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: takes a ton of time. Both of those are directly linked. 257 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: And according to trey Wick, he said that this kind 258 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: of getting around these regulations is not illegal. And here's 259 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: a quote, there are breakthroughs in the world that we 260 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: can actually bring to market in a way that wouldn't 261 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: require us to butt up against the FDA's walls, but 262 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: instead to walk around them. And what they're talking about, 263 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: essentially is self experimentation. Self experimentation is strongly discouraged by 264 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: agencies like the f d A, but it's difficult for 265 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: regulators to intervene unless you are using a drug that 266 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: is already a schedule drug, you know, and unless you're 267 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: saying I want to figure out the benefits of heroin 268 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: or m D m A, they can't really prosecute you. 269 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: You know, if you say, I'm gonna live on a 270 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: diet of celery juice and buttermilk just for three months 271 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: and just see what happened to my body and wheat 272 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: grass and wheat grass very important component, they can't stop 273 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: you because it comes to a matter of personal liberty, right. 274 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: But my question is, like this guy sort of casts 275 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: himself as being at the forefront of this, you know, 276 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: self discovery, self experimentation field, but it seems here that 277 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: he's almost using this as like a workaround for his company. 278 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: So he doesn't actually have to spend the money that 279 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: it takes to do the research and to do the 280 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you can say what you will 281 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: about the f d A and all on how long 282 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: or you know, that approval process takes. But this does 283 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: not seem magnanimous in the way that it's being um, 284 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: you know, discussed here. Yeah, it's it's a good point. 285 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: What are the true motives versus the stated motives here? 286 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: And equally important, what did a sentence biomedical actually do? 287 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsors and 288 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: we're back now. I think something that sets a sentence 289 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 1: apart as well as Aaron trey Wick is kind of 290 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: the showmanship that that he had and some of the 291 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 1: more radical things that he was willing to do in 292 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: front of a live crowd. Yeah. In October, the company 293 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: Ascendenced Biomedical shared a live broadcast over the Internet airwaves 294 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: Facebook specifically, and it featured trey Wick and one of 295 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: his colleague slash associates, a guy named Tristan Roberts. Tristan 296 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: Roberts had HIV and he injected himself with an untested 297 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: experimental gene therapy. This was presented as someone saying, let's 298 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: get rid of this unnecessary red tape holding his back. 299 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: Tristan in the video does say, you know, he indicates 300 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: that he has consented to this. It is his choice, 301 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: it's his body, so legally, there's not really too much 302 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: you can do about it unless you could prove the 303 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: guy was coerced. But then they had another another similar 304 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: experiment that involved trey Wick himself. Yeah, he ejected himself 305 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: with something that he referred to as research compound, and 306 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: in a later interview he referred to this as a 307 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: treatment and another term bound to catch the unwanted attention 308 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: of that old f d A. And it turned out 309 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: that this was, at least from everything I've read, a 310 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: herpies treatment. Right, that's right. And you know these both 311 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: of these actions are feel very radical to me personally, 312 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: going going on a live stream to inject yourself and 313 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: or your your associate to inject himself with something on 314 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: and it's gene therapy of all things. Well, that's that's also, 315 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: that's part of the strange dissonance in the guy's character 316 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: that we're talking about. He publicly compared himself to Jonas 317 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: Salk and several other like Louis Pasteur, several other great 318 00:19:55,080 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: scientists of note, great uh innovators of medicine, selfic experimentation, 319 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: though at what point does it become just performance right spectacle? 320 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: So it's not a surprise that he was a controversial 321 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: figure in the transhumanism or bio hacking community. His critics 322 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: there where many saw him as little more than a 323 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: smooth talking showman, prone to overpromising and rushing headlong into 324 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: these deadlines that were just cartoonish without realizing the extent 325 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: of research and science that was required to accomplish the goals. 326 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: His friend Tristan Roberts, who we mentioned earlier, UH put 327 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: it this way. He had He has a great quote 328 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: about this. He seems to promise anything to everyone who 329 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: was looking for something. He was actually developing some of 330 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: the things he was saying he was developing. On the 331 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: other hand, it did seem like he would take any 332 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: money that people handed him with no regard for executing. 333 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And here's a question, let's stop for your 334 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: tick here. Why are all these people speaking of Aaron 335 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: Trywick in the past tense? Well, it's because he is dead, 336 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: that's correct. On April, the body of Aaron Trewick was 337 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: discovered floating in a sensory deprivation tank at soul X 338 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: Float Spa in Washington, d C. And a century deprivation 339 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: tank is a meditative, mildly therapeutic thing where wherein you 340 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: float with minimal clothing or nude in a body of 341 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: water or fluid salty water so that so that you 342 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: can float similar like dead sea level, and you are 343 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: left alone with your thoughts. Yeah, it's usually dark, quiet 344 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: and just you. Your mind is released a bit from 345 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: its body, and some people it would cause serious anxiety 346 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: for me being one of it, just the idea of 347 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: this does not appeal to me. But our our our cohort, 348 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb from Stuff to Blow your mind enjoys them 349 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: and does them quite and some people say that it's 350 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: almost a psychedelic experience where you feel you see things 351 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: behind your eyelids and the act of the absolute lack 352 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: of any um sound or um site creates these very 353 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: intense kind of visions or whatever. And the Metro PD 354 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: found him right after. There was a nine one one 355 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: call where I believe the I believe he was in 356 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: the capsule or you know, in the contraption for long enough. 357 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: He was in there longer than he was supposed to be, 358 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: and after a certain point, the capsule automatically drains of 359 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: the fluid. Is that correct? Correct? Yeah, and it's it's 360 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: in there on purpose, just to make sure nothing's wrong. 361 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: And it also lets you know that, hey, your sessions over. Um. Yeah, 362 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: we have a whole story here. But he was found 363 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: unconscious inside this float tank and then he was pronounced 364 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: dead at one am that day, so there's a bit 365 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: of a story here. Um. Apparently trey Wick scheduled the 366 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: same day float and he scheduled it for nine am 367 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: in the morning. He showed up about five minutes late. Um. 368 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: Then he got in there, he signed the standard waiver 369 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: and then the soul Ex co owner, uh, I can't 370 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: say the name there you go, arrived at about ten 371 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: forty nine. So if it's an hour long session, he 372 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: shows up about twenty minutes late. That puts it about 373 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: around minutes after the session should be ending for trey Wick. 374 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: And the co owner asked, like, why why is somebody 375 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: still in this float room? It was scheduled for this time, 376 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: there's someone still in there, And it became pretty clear 377 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: that something was going wrong. And they realized that the 378 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: door to tray Wick's room was a jar. And this 379 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: is not something that would generally happen when you're in 380 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: one of these sessions. Again, you wanted to be quiet, 381 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: you want to be alone. Generally, someone who's going to 382 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: get in one of these gets nude, or at least 383 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: close to nude, so they want a bit of privacy. Um. 384 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: The door was a jar. Um that they noticed that, 385 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: and it was it was strange, right, not the tank lid, 386 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: but the door to the room that has the tank 387 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: in it, right, And it's like an individual tank in 388 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: each room exactly. The room itself was was also dark. 389 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: There were no lights on, and it's those sensor lights 390 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: where if someone would have gotten out of the tank, 391 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: even opened the door to the tank, probably that movement 392 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: would have caused the lights to turn on. But it 393 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: was dark. And then they opened the tank's lid and uh, 394 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: and they saw him in there and he was unconscious. 395 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: But again, like you said, Ben, it had already been 396 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: drained by that point, right, Yes, So at first they said, 397 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: you know, we don't have any evidence to suggest foul play. 398 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: One of trey Wick's cousins told the New York Times 399 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: that police had found ketamine in erin tree wicks, belonging 400 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: specifically in his pockets. This is important because of what 401 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: the autopsy ascertained. So Bloomberg News published some details of 402 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: the autopsy findings and here's what they had to say. 403 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: Um Aaron Trey Wick for TOUM, is the controversial twenty 404 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: year old bio hacker UM who was found dead in 405 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: this sensory derivation tank accidentally drowned and he had ketamine 406 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: in his system. Um. The autopsy report that was given 407 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Um showed that that was the cause of 408 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: death was an accidental drowning, and they kind of vaguely 409 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: blamed kenemine, which is an anesthetic and it's used for recreation. 410 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: But it's not like he overdosed on the drug. He 411 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: was just under the influence of the drug and supposedly 412 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: drowned as a result of being intoxicated and not having 413 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: his wits about him. I suppose that what you guys 414 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: took away from this as well. Essentially yes, but also 415 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,719 Speaker 1: it should just be noted here while we're still in 416 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: the investigation and discovery phase that the Metro police that 417 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: discovered him said there didn't seem to be any foul 418 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: play involved in his death. Yes, And here's where the 419 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: story takes a turn. You see, despite the findings of 420 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: the autopsy that eventually emerged, despite the statements of the 421 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: police department at the time, many people, both supporters and critics, 422 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: as well as bitter rivals and enemies, thought there was 423 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: much much more to the story of what really happened 424 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: in that sensory deprivation tank on April twenty nine, and 425 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: will dive into that after a word from our sponsors. 426 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. We have a couple of 427 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: big questions here that has been said right before the break, 428 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: have been posed by everyone from his best friends to 429 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: his most bitter enemies. And the first one is did 430 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: Aaron Treywick in some way fake his death? Did Have 431 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: I ever mentioned this word on this show before? Surely 432 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: I have the technical term for when somebody fakes their 433 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: own death, say pseudo side. It's a it's a real thing. 434 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: Pseudo Side's interesting is that it sounds like it could be. 435 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, just the words pseudo and then side sort 436 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: of like regicide as death of the king, fratricide, killing 437 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: of a brother, right, or a relation. So did. Also, 438 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: there's this great book called Going off the Grid I think, oh, 439 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: playing dead, and it's about how difficult it is to 440 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: successfully commit pseudo side an author. We still haven't interviewed, No, 441 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: but we have talked about we have talked with this 442 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: author about interviewing them. I'm just embarrassed to follow up. Now, 443 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: how long has it been? Like three years? Oh man? 444 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: So how are you doing? Let's we'll ask her about 445 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: her newer books. So what happens here? Um? We found 446 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: this in a brilliant New York Times article that has 447 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: one of my favorite quotes that doesn't really have anything 448 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: to do with this situation. David Ishi is someone who 449 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: was familiar with trey Wick's work. He first became interested 450 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: in genetic manipulation because he breeds dogs, and in a 451 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: quote he's referring to trey Wick, he says, a lot 452 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: of people want to go fast. Everybody whose new thinks 453 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: they're gonna have a pet dragon in six weeks. But 454 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: biology beats you down and you realize, okay, this is 455 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: going to take way longer than I expect. I just 456 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,479 Speaker 1: wanted to make dogs glow, you know, and that's taken years. 457 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: That's a real quote like like have shiny coats, Yeah, 458 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: give them phosph That would have been incredible, David, it 459 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: seems like a pretty reasonable Yeah. Well, they refer to 460 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: him as a researcher who worked at ascendance to David 461 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: is she So I'm not sure how much association he 462 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: actually had. That's what the New York Times says, Um, 463 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: you know, who knows exactly. But apparently upon hearing this 464 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: guy who's trying to make dogs glow heard that, um, 465 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: you know, Trey Wick had he had died, and his 466 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: first thought was that perhaps he had Aaron had somehow 467 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: faked it and then run off with all the money 468 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: that he had been given by clients. Which if that's 469 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: his first thought, it kind of tells you depending on 470 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: how closely this guy worked with with trey Wick, it 471 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: kind of tells you something about Trey Wick. Um. And 472 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: then another person, Tristan Roberts, who we heard from before, 473 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: uh said, let's see, he was a bio hacker who 474 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: worked with a sentence. He thought the same thing, and 475 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: he even he even says that perhaps the body was 476 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: just a very convincing clone. He joked about it after 477 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: hearing about Aaron trey Wick. And then there's the other 478 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: possibility this goes back to that door slightly. Ajar was 479 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: Aaron trey Wick murdered. Okay, so New York Times reported 480 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: that this person and Kelly Martin, who was one of 481 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: the founders of a Sentence Biomedical UM, had her own 482 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 1: theory about the whole situation, and it hinted at a 483 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: different conspiracy. And here's a quote. Um, there's speculation if 484 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: you watch Aaron's last video, that he was going to 485 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: provide disruptive technology that would upend big pharma. UM. And 486 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: also she goes on quote he said that we were 487 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: close to coming up with something that was pretty revolutionary. Um. 488 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: It is interesting, and it seems like the kind of 489 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: claims this dude would have been known to make. Yeah, exactly, 490 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: and it's so vague, but it's big. It's huge exciting, 491 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: I can tell you because we have a rapport. I mean, 492 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: everything we know about this guy up to this point 493 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: makes me see him as kind of like one of 494 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: these kind of fake it till you make it tech 495 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: bro startup guys, you know, who just kind of like 496 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: talk a big game and the hopes people will throw 497 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: money at them and then they kind of figure it 498 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: out as they go along, you know. I mean, I'm 499 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: not saying he didn't have some smart ideas or wasn't 500 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: working on smith interesting stuff, but I just it doesn't 501 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: scream um, you know, integrityt Yeah. So well, let's let's 502 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: play the reindeer games for a little bit longer and 503 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: say let's say, okay, what if, just as a thought experiment, 504 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: what if this was a case of homicide. It is 505 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: easy to make someone drown, you know, and it's not 506 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: impossible to make it look like an accident. So for 507 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: people who believe that Aaron Treewick was murdered, they will 508 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: raise several different let's call them species of suspects and 509 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: their motivations. First off is the f d A. We 510 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: have a quote from a guy with a really cool name, 511 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: zoltan Ist Vantan like them like the machine is. Yeah, 512 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: wasn't that his name? Wasn't it? The Great Zultan That's amazing, 513 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: zultan istvan Uh. He's a futurist who and at the 514 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: time he's quoted, he was a Libertarian candidate for the 515 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: governor of California and he was talking to the Independent 516 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: Great paper out of the UK. I immediately thought of 517 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: an f d A conspiracy theory when I heard that 518 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: Aaron was found dead. Our medical system is not one 519 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: to find cures, but to keep people alive as long 520 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: as possible while they're sick, to make money off of them. 521 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: And then Tristan Roberts had a quote that also echoes 522 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: sort of the same thing. Yeah, he said, I have 523 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: always felt that the threat from humans profiting off the 524 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: status quo was greater than the experimental therapies themselves. So 525 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: as though the uh, the outside forces that control the 526 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: current medical situation were more dangerous than the things that 527 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: were being injected into yourself on a live stream. So interesting. 528 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: The idea here is the gist of it, right, is 529 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: that Trey Wick is too dangerous or disruptive to the 530 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: existing status quo of medicine and money. And in the 531 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: case of the f d A, the ideas that he 532 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: was murdered because he was threatening the FDA's monopoly on 533 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: drug approvals and clinical trials. And it's actually, I don't 534 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: want to sound insane here, but it's actually pretty difficult 535 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: to get approval for any kind of clinical trial. Back 536 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: when I was trying to buy a transcranial direct current 537 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: simulation device. You had to jump through a lot of 538 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: hoops just to even get on the phone with someone 539 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: who would sell them, and I was beating my head 540 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: against this. So I can see the appeal of bio hacking. 541 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: You can also find some great forms online with instructions 542 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: to build your own transcranial simulation device, but nowadays, luckily 543 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: well it's still kind of gray market. You can buy 544 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: one has bad long term effects on your i Q though, 545 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: so far as we know, what are the what are 546 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: the positive qualities of this name? It puts you in. 547 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: It creates that experience of being in the zone. You know, 548 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: have you ever been, for instance, uh, playing music and 549 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: flow staters? Yeah, put you. It puts you in a 550 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: flow state, and it will enhance various cognitive abilities, at 551 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: least on the short term, but until it rips them 552 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: away from you. Yeah. But is it a flowers for 553 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: algae about the situation? There's not there's not very good 554 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: publicized long term studies of the effects, and I imagine 555 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: that would be the case. I don't know. I mean, 556 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: even with FDA trials, it seems like there's so many 557 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: medications that we don't fully understand the long, long, long 558 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: term effects of even if they've gone through the proper trial. 559 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: So I would imagine with some of these genetic enhancements 560 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: or these genetic therapies or whatever, even if they did 561 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: fix something up front, who knows if the problem they 562 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: caused down the line and maybe didn't outweigh the positive 563 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 1: thing they did. You know, and you know, big farm, 564 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 1: it will show up later in this podcast, but there's 565 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: we also should make a point that there's some corruption 566 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: in those FDA trials. If fighter really wants to get 567 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: something through the f D, a O probably let it happen. Well, 568 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: I mean, with all the opiate epidemic stuff we've been 569 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: talking about, and they just now approved an opiate that's 570 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,359 Speaker 1: like fifty times more potent than oxycontent or something like that, 571 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: or it was something like that. I mean not that 572 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: number exactly, don't quote me on that, but it was 573 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: significantly more powerful and concentrating. And they're just like, yeah, 574 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: it's fine, Yeah, put it out there, like cause us 575 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: like a huge problem before. You know, kids are too hyper, 576 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: Maybe we should just give them, you know, opiates for children, right, 577 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: the opiate of the masses, right, Uh, the opiate of 578 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: the elementary school classes and my man, uh well, uh 579 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: speaking of the f D A right. They refused to 580 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: comment on the conspiratorial claims. It's not a surprise that 581 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: they didn't have someone come out and say, hey, guys, 582 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: we know there's been a lot of talk about us 583 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: hunting and killing bio hackers. We just want to say 584 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: that specifically, we didn't do eron Trey Wick because that 585 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: sounds really sketchy. So instead, one of their spokespeople pointed 586 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: to a u A web page that the federal agency 587 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: published shortly after Tristan Roberts injected himself with that attempt 588 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: at an HIV cure. But the FDA does have a 589 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: position on this. I mean, you know, it's it's a 590 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: little bit of a kind of showmanship, kind of an 591 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: an almost snake oil salesmanship as well, when he says, oh, no, 592 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: it's fine, this isn't actually illegal. But my question at 593 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: the top of the show was, yeah, maybe it's not 594 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: illegal for individual to try whatever method of treatment they 595 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: would like on theirselves, whether it be some kind of 596 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: you know, herbal remedy or injecting something that's given to 597 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: them into their body. At the same time, it's illegal 598 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,959 Speaker 1: to take illegal drugs, So that's obviously that argument doesn't 599 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: always hold up. Does that we can't do whatever we 600 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: want with our bodies? Can we? Anyway? Point being that's 601 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: his argument is that whatever an individual wants to do 602 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: to their body is okay as long as that individual 603 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: gives consent for them to do it. Um The FDA 604 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,280 Speaker 1: sees it a little differently. This is what they say. 605 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: F d A is aware that gene therapy products intended 606 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: for self administration and do it yourself products or kits 607 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: rather to produce gene therapies for self administration, are being 608 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: made available with the public. The sale of these products. 609 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: The sale of these products is against the law. F 610 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: d A is concerned about the safety risks involved. Consumers 611 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 1: are cautioned to make sure that any gene therapy they're using, 612 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: they're considering using, has either been approved by FDA or 613 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: is being studied under appropriate regulatory oversight. As we know, 614 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 1: the whole point behind this guy's company was to avoid 615 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: regulatory oversight of any kind, to walk around to circumvented 616 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: using this argument of it's my body, I'll do what 617 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: I want. But we know that's that that doesn't really 618 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: hold up, and it's not your body as soon as 619 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: you start selling it to other people, so it's it 620 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: doesn't ring true. And then there's the other specie or 621 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: the related you receive theory about this that concerns big 622 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,760 Speaker 1: farm up either operating independently or in cooperation with the FDA, 623 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: and it's pretty much the same thing, but the mad 624 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: live it a little and they just switch out FDA 625 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,439 Speaker 1: for big Pharma. However, there's some pretty significant problems with 626 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 1: both of these theories. First and foremost, multiple people will 627 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: say that Aaron trey Wick was much more of a 628 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: glad hander in a publicity hound than you know, someone 629 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: doing the actual work. We've all met people like this, 630 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: you know. One of the sayings I like to throw 631 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: around as everybody wants to eat, no one wants to cook. 632 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: It's pretty common. Like if you've ever done group work 633 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: in college, you've probably run into a situation where there 634 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: might be one person who's just not just doesn't seem 635 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,359 Speaker 1: to care, you know, but you all get graded accordingly 636 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: and your professor's I don't know, I hope they would 637 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: be understanding, but I've I've been in like I've been 638 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: in college where that kind of stuff happens, and trey Wick, 639 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: according to his critics, again this is the view of 640 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: his critics, was someone who was very anxious to take 641 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: credit for things they didn't actually do right and to 642 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: short change the people this scientists as contractors is Tristan 643 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: Roberts and so on, and then go on the publicity 644 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: towards interview circuits and what have you. But if he 645 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 1: was that the thing is, if the critics are right, 646 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: and if he was one of those types of people, 647 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: murdering him would not solve any of the problems for 648 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: the f d A or Big Pharma, because the actual 649 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: people doing the work and creating these uh genetic manipulation 650 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: substances would just continue to work and they, you know, 651 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: there's a there's a brutal but possibly valid argument that 652 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: they might do better work once trey Wick was no 653 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: longer at the top and pushing them towards these deadlines 654 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: that made them cut corners. And then secondly, I don't know, 655 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: this is something that feels weird to me about this. 656 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: Why would you engineer death through ketamine? Like, couldn't you 657 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: have an acces? Couldn't you have a car accident? Couldn't 658 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: you have something that looks like a heart attack in 659 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: a way, this was an accidental death, right, Yeah, at 660 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: least whether there's ketamine or not, the drowning could have occurred. 661 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: I've heard ketamine is a pretty all encompassing, intense situation 662 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: where you feel like you're outside of your body and 663 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: it's a whole dissociative. I believe it is. The type 664 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: of drug is so I can imagine that taking it 665 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: and being submerged in a situation like that might not 666 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: be the smartest idea, although I I hear that it 667 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 1: is a common thing to take something that would provide 668 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: some form of hallucinogenic effects while in one of these 669 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: t mt LSD. But that's what I'm saying. I've I've 670 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: never thought that as being as that's what they call, right, 671 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, I've never I've definitely never messed with 672 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 1: anything like that before, but i've you know, it's been 673 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 1: described in movies. It's a club drug, you know, in 674 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: the UK, it's very popular. People take it and go 675 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,800 Speaker 1: to raves and stuff. But I don't understand how that 676 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: would work if it's a tranquilizer. I thought it was 677 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: a horse tranquilizer. Yeah, but to your to your pointment, 678 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: everything you've been saying here, it almost it strengthens the 679 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: idea of our third possible suspect. Of the arguments you're 680 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: making about his personality, how he functioned within the company, 681 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: how he functioned on a work level, it does make 682 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: it seem like maybe it was somebody who he had wrong. Yeah, 683 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: let's say someone killed him, not because of his talent 684 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: for you know, bilking the work of others, but for 685 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: some sort of personal vendetta. Right, let's talk about those 686 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: upset investors and or those rivals in the bio hacking community. 687 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: Former business partner guy named rich Lee noted that trey 688 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: Wick had ripped off partners, ripped off researchers, and ripped 689 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: off the public. He also tray Wick, that is, allegedly 690 00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: owed money to fellow bio hackers. Originally, Lee and all 691 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: these partners thought that trey Wick was very professional and 692 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: he was supposed to issue them all shares or stock 693 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: in a company. But Lee says he screwed them all over. 694 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: Also Lee, Uh, here's a side note about Richly Uh. 695 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: He originally one of one of his breakthrough inventions was 696 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: a piece of wet wear, a vibrating penile implant called 697 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: the Lovetron nine thousand, and that's he was interacting with 698 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: Trady Wick in this regard. Uh wait wait, he was 699 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,760 Speaker 1: interacting well, so I'm sorry sorry in a business sense 700 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: regarding this invention. Trey Wick wanted to own of the 701 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: profits made from sale of the device in exchange for 702 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: providing funding, and trey Wick only offered to pay him 703 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: five grand to get it off the ground, and he 704 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: said Mr Lee had to pre sell the implant before 705 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 1: it was finished and tested. And then, you know, Lee 706 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: understandably is thinking, I can't pre sell somebody an implant 707 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: for their jenitalia unless I'm convinced it's both going to 708 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: happen and happen safely. Did you see the name of 709 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:16,359 Speaker 1: the thing, love Tron nine thousand, Tron, Yeah, I love 710 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: you love Tron nine thousand. That right. So now we 711 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,720 Speaker 1: go back to Tristan Robert's original joke about faking one's 712 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: own death committing pseudo side. Lee it turns out takes 713 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,400 Speaker 1: this idea seriously. Yeah, we have a quote here it 714 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: says big pharma and government conspiracy theories started springing up 715 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,600 Speaker 1: after his death. But my first instinct was that he'd 716 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: faked his own death and fled the country. Given the 717 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: controversy surrounding him, some people suspected it would have been 718 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 1: a hit, that another bio hacker could have done it, 719 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: And it does look pretty suspicious from the outside. You'd 720 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: point to a feud between bio hackers, but what you know, 721 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: we really seem like a real, you know, tooth and 722 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: nail fight between him and any other specific bio hackers. 723 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 1: Are these people that gangster? It's a good question, that's 724 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: That's the thing. It seems more like people resented him. 725 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,360 Speaker 1: It seems that he many people do feel like he 726 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,439 Speaker 1: stole their money essentially, or swindled them, or stole their work, 727 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: or even stole their kind of cred in a way 728 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: by like being so vocal and like outspoken on the 729 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: Internet and kind of hogging the limelight in a way 730 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: whereas I almost wanted. Feels to me like some of 731 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: these communities would prefer to be a little more underground. Yeah, 732 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: that's true. Like how much of it is um wringling brothers, 733 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, how much of it is sound and fury 734 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: right in in. It's strange because after trey Wick lost 735 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,400 Speaker 1: his shareholders or high to scaddled with their stuff. He 736 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,240 Speaker 1: started going really hard on his employees. He would announced 737 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,799 Speaker 1: these unrealistic deadlines to the media, to the public, and 738 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,240 Speaker 1: then he would pressure his researchers again, the people doing 739 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: the work to cut corners on science to meet these 740 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: crazy deadlines. It sounds a little bit like he was 741 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: impulsively talking for a reaction in the moment and promising 742 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 1: things that couldn't happen. This is also very common in 743 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,720 Speaker 1: politicians yea or or a purposeful way to put pressure 744 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 1: on his employees, just like put it out there while 745 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: I said it, so now we gotta do it. This also, 746 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: this deadline rush and this kind of unsustainable growth that 747 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: he was pushing for, makes Lee believe a suicide is plausible. 748 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,799 Speaker 1: He says that Aaron was suing a few friends and 749 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: media outlets for defamation, but two weeks before his death 750 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,799 Speaker 1: on the twenty nine, he dropped all of the lawsuits. 751 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: Then he had a deadline coming up in a couple 752 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,839 Speaker 1: of days, one that there was no way in hell 753 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,839 Speaker 1: he was going to make. So does this mean that 754 00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,439 Speaker 1: maybe he hit a wall of burnout and desperation and 755 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: decided to quietly take his own life. If so that's 756 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,120 Speaker 1: that's tough to say because how many people choose that 757 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: method of self extermination. Well, there's, okay, a couple of 758 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: things really fast. I got a point to the fact 759 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: that ketamine can take you to that state of euphoria 760 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,439 Speaker 1: where perhaps if you knew you were going to die 761 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 1: or kill yourself, you would not experience the pain and 762 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: terror and horror of passing over like LSD with Eltis Huxley. 763 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,839 Speaker 1: But it's it's like, yeah, kind of like that where 764 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 1: it's been used before. I believe ketamine itself has been used. 765 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: I know several drugs have been in assisted suicide to 766 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:50,280 Speaker 1: to let people die without experiencing the existential But but 767 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 1: but he didn't overdose. He didn't there's nothing in his 768 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,840 Speaker 1: system that indicated that he took a drug to kill himself. 769 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: He drowned, but perhaps not to overdose, but to die 770 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: while on it. I I'm just putting interesting. I'm just 771 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: kind of being devil's advocate here. It's interesting concept. Um. 772 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:09,920 Speaker 1: I would lean much more towards an accidental drowning that's intoxicated. 773 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,920 Speaker 1: I think that's that's where the story seems to lead us. 774 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: You know, right now, people still believe that there was 775 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,680 Speaker 1: something greater at play. Again, the primary thing is that 776 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: if if a large private or governmental organization was going 777 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,799 Speaker 1: to remove someone from the picture for this kind of 778 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: genetic manipulation, it's far more likely that they would remove 779 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: the people actually doing the manipulation, actually doing the research. 780 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,560 Speaker 1: They wouldn't. They wouldn't need to get rid of someone 781 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,200 Speaker 1: who was more of a networker and publicity person. They 782 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,120 Speaker 1: would need to get rid of the scientists. And that's 783 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 1: that's where we're at with this story. We would love 784 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: to hear if you if you're listening and you're part 785 00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: of the bio hacking community, we'd love to hear your take. 786 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,279 Speaker 1: And I would completely agree with you, Ben. If it 787 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,720 Speaker 1: wasn't for that a jar door, Yeah, there we go. See, 788 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 1: Because if he was in that sensory deprivation tank and 789 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 1: he drowned in that sensory deprivation tank before it was drained, 790 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,279 Speaker 1: who opened that door. Is it possible that an employee 791 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,719 Speaker 1: opened it, found him dead and said, like I'm not 792 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go. Maybe he was just raised in 793 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,879 Speaker 1: a barn. Yeah, maybe just dint close. But no, because 794 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: the person who puts him in the tank would have 795 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,359 Speaker 1: to leave the room. Yeah, exactly. So maybe they were 796 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: raised in a barn. Now I don't know that possible 797 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: some part of the story was raised in a barn. 798 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,920 Speaker 1: It's possible that there's a big barn element that we 799 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: have not considered yet. A man is dead, you guys, 800 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,799 Speaker 1: I know, I know it is. It is true. The 801 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,440 Speaker 1: loss of human life is always a tragedy, regardless of 802 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,840 Speaker 1: how how people may or may not feel about Aaron 803 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,240 Speaker 1: trey Wick. If you if you if you think that 804 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: he was fighting the good fight and pushing technology forward, 805 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,360 Speaker 1: you can agree it's a loss. If you thought, you know, 806 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,240 Speaker 1: there was more of a swindler and a credit thief, 807 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,919 Speaker 1: then it's still a tragic thing. It's a tragic event 808 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,239 Speaker 1: when someone dies. It is important to know if we're 809 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,280 Speaker 1: talking about the actual medicine. This is another argument maybe 810 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,839 Speaker 1: against the f D a idea. Neither the herpies nor 811 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,879 Speaker 1: the HIV treatment actually worked. In fact, the guy who 812 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,279 Speaker 1: was self injected the HIV treatment, his viral load increased, 813 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 1: I believe after the injection, and he went back on 814 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: his traditional HIV cocktail. Right. However, people in the community 815 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: generally agree that love or hate, like or Dislike Erin, 816 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: Truwick brought much more attention to the transhumanist cause, even 817 00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,560 Speaker 1: and his opponents are still seeing bad things about the guy, 818 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,919 Speaker 1: even if it was just a cautionary tale about how 819 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:54,359 Speaker 1: to not go about doing things. I got They got 820 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,399 Speaker 1: two two small addendums that might be of interest. So 821 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 1: right before his death, Aaron tree Wick was planning a 822 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,880 Speaker 1: crisper trial in Mexico at a place called the International 823 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,919 Speaker 1: Biocare Hospital and Wellness Center, And the m I T 824 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,719 Speaker 1: Technology Review followed up on this lead. They did a 825 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,759 Speaker 1: great job and they found that yes, there was a 826 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,880 Speaker 1: trial is going to be for lung cancer. People had 827 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 1: to pay. Participants had to pay twenty five dollars at 828 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,600 Speaker 1: first to have Aaron trey Wick I guess evaluate them 829 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,279 Speaker 1: or interview them to see if they were good fit 830 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,160 Speaker 1: for the trial. And the clinic confirms that they were 831 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,880 Speaker 1: in talks. They did get pretty pretty far along in 832 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,400 Speaker 1: the process, but they're not going to go forward with 833 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,920 Speaker 1: the trial now that trey Wick has passed away. So 834 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:39,160 Speaker 1: is somebody attempting to stop that trial specifically? Yeah, because 835 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,720 Speaker 1: it seems like, again to our earlier points, the company 836 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,120 Speaker 1: could have continued along with that trial. Yeah, that's true. 837 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: That is true. Um, but you know, maybe he's the 838 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,080 Speaker 1: lynch pin. It sounds like he was organizing a lot 839 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:57,640 Speaker 1: of stuff. Here's the last addendum though, guys, remember recently 840 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:00,759 Speaker 1: we I think we had talked about this little bit 841 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: off air, maybe on our Facebook page. Here's where it 842 00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 1: gets crazy, shameless plug the story of the Chinese scientists 843 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,160 Speaker 1: who claimed to have made the world's first genetically modified children. Yeah, 844 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,760 Speaker 1: also an ethical quandary, right, because he sort of followed 845 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 1: it actually a similar path as this story that we're 846 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:19,880 Speaker 1: telling today, where he kind of did a lot of 847 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,400 Speaker 1: this stuff outside of oversight and then presented the findings. 848 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,320 Speaker 1: And I believe a YouTube video of some kind or 849 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,960 Speaker 1: some kind of internet stream. He made an appearance at 850 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,640 Speaker 1: the Second International Summon on Human Genome Editing in Hong Kong. 851 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,759 Speaker 1: He did do something though, where he revealed some part 852 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,560 Speaker 1: of his research online. I think it went viral or something. 853 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 1: Maybe they recorded him saying yeah, And I think the 854 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,600 Speaker 1: people in the room, though the perspective was largely like 855 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,799 Speaker 1: pearl clutching and gasping. It's like, what the hell like, 856 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:51,040 Speaker 1: you can't do that, yeah, especially when you're in a 857 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,920 Speaker 1: room full of scientists who were saying, look, we're trying 858 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,320 Speaker 1: not to scare people. Bro the here's the thing about 859 00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,080 Speaker 1: that scientists. The story just broke on Thiscember three today 860 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 1: is what Ah, he is missing amid rumors of an arrest. Okay, 861 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,880 Speaker 1: no one knows where he is and they say he 862 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,480 Speaker 1: was placed under a house arrest in Shinjun after the conference, 863 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,000 Speaker 1: but his former workplace says the attention claims are inaccurate. 864 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 1: We don't know where he is. Well, is this another episode? 865 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,960 Speaker 1: It very well? Maybe, but it's yeah, it's probably a 866 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,880 Speaker 1: story for a different day. You know, maybe the maybe 867 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,080 Speaker 1: his science was bad, maybe he got carried away, But 868 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,239 Speaker 1: I don't think that's a reason for him to get disappeared. Yeah, 869 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 1: maybe there's something else going on. I might have to 870 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 1: look into it. All right, So what do you think? 871 00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,440 Speaker 1: You gotta write to us, you gotta tell us. Go on. 872 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,640 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Let's have a discussion about 873 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,239 Speaker 1: this one. This feels like a good one Facebook. It 874 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:53,440 Speaker 1: is on Facebook. Ben already plugged it really hard. It's 875 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:59,880 Speaker 1: a quick plug, smooth, smooth slide into a segue. So 876 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,799 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook or on Twitter. Where were conspiracy 877 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,359 Speaker 1: stuff on Instagram or conspiracy stuff show. If you don't 878 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,319 Speaker 1: want to do those things, you can give us a 879 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,680 Speaker 1: call one eight three three s D d W y 880 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,319 Speaker 1: t K. That's right, leave a message you might get 881 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,319 Speaker 1: on the air. We're gonna have another one of those 882 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,239 Speaker 1: pretty soon. We got to do that, and um, what 883 00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,200 Speaker 1: else here? We just we just want to have a 884 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: discussion about this one. Really, there's a lot of crazy 885 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,239 Speaker 1: stuff going on in this in this story, and we 886 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,480 Speaker 1: want to see maybe you if you've uncovered something in 887 00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:36,000 Speaker 1: this realm, in this world where Aaron trey Wick existed 888 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,520 Speaker 1: that is so murky. And what do you think about 889 00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,719 Speaker 1: bio hacking in general? Yeah, that's the thing. So this 890 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 1: is an interesting, tangentially related thing. You know. We'll get 891 00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,840 Speaker 1: out of here before michion control kills us. Should it 892 00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,279 Speaker 1: be illegal for people to use performance enhancing drugs or 893 00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,880 Speaker 1: technology in the world of sports? I asked this because 894 00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,320 Speaker 1: in the old days of baseball, using a baseball glove 895 00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:06,640 Speaker 1: was considered unsportsmanlike and cheating. Yeah, you're just supposed to 896 00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,239 Speaker 1: bare knuckle it, Yes, bare knuckle it. Do you guys 897 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,799 Speaker 1: remember in the two thousand's when it was illegal to 898 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:16,080 Speaker 1: take steroids? It was crazy time. It's funny. That's funny, Matt. 899 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,600 Speaker 1: I like what you did there. Hey, if you don't 900 00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:19,839 Speaker 1: want to do any of that other stuff, you don't 901 00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,439 Speaker 1: want to do the internet day, well, I's still gotta 902 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:22,680 Speaker 1: do the Internet a little bit and the to do this, 903 00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,440 Speaker 1: but it's it's a very light use of the Internet. 904 00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,319 Speaker 1: You can send us an email. We are conspiracy at 905 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:48,600 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com.