1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers. Since government conspiracies, history is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events, you can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt beat 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: the Spread, Frederick, and my name is Null Boogie Down Brown. 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: My name has been in lieu of a nickname. I 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: picked up some veggie straws that bowling and you are you. 8 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: We hope that you also have a cool, gambling or 9 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: mafioso type nickname to attach yourself. I'm always a fan 10 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: of calling somebody two hands, Matt, two hands, Frederick, I 11 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: got them both. That just sounds so sketchy. Maddie six 12 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: hats at the same time, a number and a thing Matt, 13 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: Maddie fresh finger. I mean I'm I'm very hygienic, so 14 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 1: that mean well, while we while we ponder that, uh, 15 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and catch you up the speed. If 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: you missed our previous episode, then stop what you're doing 17 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: and go back and listen to that first, because this 18 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: is part two of a two part series. In our 19 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: previous episode, we begin an interview with an expert on 20 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: corruption and conspiracy within the world of sports. Gentleman named 21 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: Brian Tooey and he's written several books. Uh. He We 22 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: were fortunate enough to get some time with him, and uh, 23 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: it was just too big for one episode. So now 24 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: we are returning and where we last left off. Can 25 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: we get like a previously on lost thing, but with 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: stuff they want you to know, previously on stuff they 27 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Perfect Previously we were we 28 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: were exploring the relationship between organized crime and organized sports, 29 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: and that's the reason we're talking. Uh. I think the 30 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: weirdest thing we learned is that I'm due to the 31 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: mob fixing boxing matches. Uh. Ultimately America became hooked on 32 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: cable television. Yeah, because you had to see it. You 33 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 1: had to see it in that moment. It was extremely 34 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: important that it was live. So I don't know, guys, 35 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: let's say, you know, let's dispense with the preamble and 36 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: get right into the uh, the the good stuff. When 37 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: we talk about the fascination that people have with with sports, 38 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: one of the things that that we see tremendously popular 39 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: today with the with the rise of modern technology is 40 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: the famous or infamous practice of fantasy leagues fantasy football, 41 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: for instance, Uh, So how are these fantasy league services 42 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: like Draft Kings or fan Duel altering the sports gambling market. Well, 43 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: according to them, they're not gambling first of all, So 44 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: they're not affecting the gambling market at all because they 45 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: have to live and breathe on that, in my opinion, 46 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: lie that they're not gambling. Um, and they've actually been 47 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: kind of busted for that. Now. Now there's this whole 48 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: upheaval really in that daily fantasy industry because a lot 49 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: of States, because their ads are so ubiguous and so 50 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: in your face for so long, early in last year's 51 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: football season, you know, States finally woke up and said, well, 52 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: what is this? Is this gambling? Who who's doing this? 53 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: How much money is being made? And now that they 54 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: looked into it, they said, holy cow, we kind of 55 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: missed the boat on this stuff. Um. You know, it 56 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: has changed the way people consume their sports, and really 57 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: sports is what's keeping television, I think, alive, because it's 58 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: the only thing that needs to be consumed alive. Everything 59 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: else you can DVR and watch it later. But sports, 60 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: if you don't watch it live, you know you're gonna 61 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: find out sooner or later before you get to come 62 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: home and watch it. You know, I'll record it and 63 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: by then you know it's too late. Anyway, the excitement 64 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: has gone on it. But daily Fantasy sports is really 65 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: fed into this notion that not only will people watch 66 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: the games, but they're gonna be watching it in a 67 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: new way because they're gonna have a financial stake in 68 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: these games. And that's why I think sports gambling is 69 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: so popular and why like the NFL's ratings are so high, 70 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: is because people are watching because they have money of 71 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: their own on the line and the outcome of the game, 72 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: not only on the players, but on the teams and 73 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: on the final score and whatever else you can bet 74 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: on within these events and without it, without the gambling end. 75 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: And it's funny because the league's know this but they 76 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: won't admit it, But without the gambling end, their ratings 77 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: and their interest level would just plummet. If it really 78 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: starts coming into perspective when you think about all of 79 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: the different sports being broadcast across so many different animals 80 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: at any time, about how much money is just getting 81 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: funneled in and throughout this so many games. Like I said, 82 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: I'm not a big sports guy, but it blows up 83 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: there's always some game on and everyone that is really 84 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: into it, they know exactly when their games on, and 85 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: like people will fight over the TV and bars because 86 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: there's game playing at the same exact time and it's 87 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: just you know, and there's a new ESPN spentoff channel 88 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: like every other week. Well, and the crazy thing is 89 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: the how dependent, like you said, these media companies are 90 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: on these sports to to feed their advertising, right. Well, 91 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: and it's not only that, but you have to remember 92 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: the Television Networks Fund of Professional Sports. You know, ESPN 93 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: gives the NFL nearly two billion dollars a year for 94 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: Monday Night football when they spend a hundred and ten 95 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: million dollars on every Monday Night football production just for 96 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: the rights to the game. That's before they pay any 97 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: broadcast or cameraman anything. They're paying a hundred and ten 98 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: million dollars basically, you know, big budget Hollywood movie every 99 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: week just to broadcast the National Football League. And you 100 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: can go through them all, I mean, the CBS funds, 101 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: the NFL, NBC funds the NFL, Fox Sports funds the 102 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: NFL and without that six billion dollars a year the 103 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: NFL gets from television, the NFL would be in trouble 104 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: if it didn't have it. And that goes the same 105 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,799 Speaker 1: with Major League Baseball, the NBA, and all the other leagues. 106 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: They are really in many ways funded by television, and 107 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: I think that's why this idea of the league fixing 108 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 1: their own game isn't absurd, because they need the television 109 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: money to survive. Television needs the advertising revenue to basically 110 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: pay the leagues to you know, to afford to be 111 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: able to broadcast those games, and so everybody can make 112 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: a profit off it as long as the games are 113 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: entertaining and exciting, and the leagues have the very real 114 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: ability to manipulate the games while they're going on to 115 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: keep them entertaining and exciting throughout the course of the game, 116 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: so you're watching the two man owning or to the 117 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: final buzzer or into the ninth thing, because they perhaps 118 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: can manipulate these things to make sure that those exciting 119 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: events take place really quickly. I want to learn about 120 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: the benefits of owning a big league team, any team. 121 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: Like let's say I'm just a guy that has a 122 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: couple million dollars, I want to own a team. Why 123 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: would I want to do that? It's a good question. 124 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: First of all, they would have to let you in. 125 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: You can't just buy a team because you want to. 126 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: The other owners have to allow you into their little club. OK. 127 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: So just because you have the money doesn't mean you're 128 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: gonna be welcomed in with open arms. Um they have 129 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: to accept to But you know, it's interesting because some owners, 130 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: actually I believe, owned teams almost as tax right off, 131 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: and they don't care if the team wins or loses. 132 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: They use them as like a calling card to say, Hey, 133 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: I own this team. Why don't you guys come up 134 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: to my private box and we'll do some business while 135 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: the game is going on. And I think other especially 136 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: long time owners like guys who the guys who owned 137 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: the Bears, the McCaskey family, the Mayor's who owned the Giants, 138 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: the Runeys who own the Steelers in the NFL. They've 139 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: owned the team's really since the inception of the league, 140 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: and that's all they have and so it's their lifeblood, 141 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: these teams in these leagues. So you know, it's a 142 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: new The modern air owners, I think are kind of 143 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: buying into the league's because they want to prestige and 144 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: kind of the calling card that goes with owning the team. 145 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: Some monymous tax right offs and some just have had 146 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: the team so long that they know nothing else but 147 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: this sport or this league. And how how do those 148 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: owners then function within the league itself, like within the 149 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: n b A or the NFL. Do they have a 150 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: say in like what goes down, how everything works? Oh? Yeah, 151 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: they own it. It's their league. That's what fans I think. 152 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: Another thing they don't understand is the owners own the league. 153 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: It's there since their private company, and they can do 154 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: with it what they want. It doesn't matter what other 155 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: people say. Those people own it, I mean. And that's 156 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: when the proven conspiracies and sports again, that shows what 157 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: these owners can do. Back in the nineteen eighties, major 158 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: League Baseball owners were they felt losing money on their league, 159 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 1: and so they got together. I forget how many teams 160 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: that were in the league at the time, but the 161 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: thirty owners of the Major League Baseball and the commissioner 162 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: are all sat down in a room together and decided, 163 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: we're not going to pay for anybody else's free agents 164 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: this year. We're gonna all save money. We're gonna cut 165 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: salary costs, We're gonna save money. Nobody signed anybody else's 166 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: free agents, and to a man, the Major League Baseball 167 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: owners stuck to that. It didn't matter if you own 168 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: to the Yankees, you own the Cubs, you own the Royals, 169 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: you want the Angels. To a man, they said, we're 170 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: not going to pay for anybody else's free agents. And 171 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: that's exactly what they did. And they were Hall of 172 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: Fame guys, future Hall of famers that became free agents 173 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: that year and the following year and the year after that, 174 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: and Major League Baseball still stuck to its guns. It's 175 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: called collusion. It's this. It's really conspiracy. Guys sitting in 176 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,599 Speaker 1: the room deciding this is what we're gonna do. It 177 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: didn't matter for the fact, winds didn't matter, affective losses, 178 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: who won the World Series, who made the playoffs. They 179 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: were there to save money and make money. And they 180 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: did it to such an extreme extent that As League 181 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: Baseball players follow stations suit him and one about three 182 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: billion dollars from them because they made it so blatantly obvious. 183 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: But the fact is the owners got together in the room, 184 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: made a decision and stuck to it. And they have 185 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: that sort of power and ability. Now, Brian, the one 186 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: of the interesting points that you raise in some of 187 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: your work is something that again something that will surprise 188 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners, I believe, which is, uh, 189 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: you say that the big four leagues enjoy anti trust exemptions? 190 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: Is that correct? Well, Major League Baseball mainly does, and 191 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: they have for a long time, basically back to the 192 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: I forgot it was like the nineteen twenties, if not 193 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: before then, Congress or some reason gave them an anti 194 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: trust exemption and all the it's been challenged a couple 195 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: of times, it's they've never lost it. So they are 196 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: legally allowed to be a monopoly and one of the 197 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: few because in many ways they weren't deemed to be 198 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: interstate commerce for some reason which nobody can really fully 199 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,599 Speaker 1: explain today. But that's the fact of the matter is 200 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: Major League Baseball wasn't deemed to be interstate commerce, so 201 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: therefore they weren't really, you know, basically a monopoly for 202 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: whatever reason, and so they were given this antitrust exemption. 203 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: And you know, the NFL and the NBA and the 204 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: other leagues as well. It's kind of been a ordered 205 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: that too to a certain extent in order to negotiate 206 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: the television contracts that they have. So I mean, they're 207 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: all kind of almost legally allowed to be monopolies and 208 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: that allows them in many ways to operate in the 209 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 1: way they do and also gives them a lot of authority. 210 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: And in many ways, you know, Congress has always been 211 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: and even local governments have been very friendly with sports 212 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: teams and leagues. And that's why you see so many 213 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: you know, cities bending over backwards to build the billionaire 214 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: owners new stadiums when really tax when they shouldn't be 215 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: going to funding the new stadium because the city is 216 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: not getting really a lot of benefit of it. It's 217 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: the billionaire owner who is. So why isn't he forking 218 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: over the money to build himself a new stadium. We've 219 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: got that twofold here in Atlanta, where like literally the 220 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: former football stadium is right next to where they're building 221 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: the bigger, batter, newer football stadium and they're just gonna 222 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: tear the old one down and there's nothing wrong with 223 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: that at all. No, And we have that too. I mean, 224 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: we have the same thing here in Milwaukee. I mean 225 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 1: the baseball stadium, yes, was dated, but they built the 226 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: new one Miller Park right next to old County Stadium 227 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: like in the parking lot. And now we got the 228 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: same thing with Milwaukee Bucks. They have a pretty decent arena, 229 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: the Bradley Center, but yet that's not good enough for 230 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: the new owners. So they demanded a new stadium, and 231 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, the people Milwaukee said, sure, okay, we'll 232 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: build you one, despite the fact you guys have more 233 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: enough money to build your own, And so they're gonna 234 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: build it pretty much next door to the old one too. 235 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: And it happens everywhere. I mean, the Houston Astrodome is 236 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: still standing. It actually is gonna cost more money to 237 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: the deacon instructed than it is to leave its standing 238 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: where it is right now. But yet there it sits, 239 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: and there's a new stadium pretty much right next door 240 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: for the Astros. Yeah. That's one of the one of 241 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: the things I've been learning as I've been following the 242 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: Atlanta Braves move to Cobb County here, and it's crazy 243 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: to see how much money from cities from counties end 244 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: up going in from taxpayers really to pay for all 245 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: these new stadiums and the stadiums. In your book, you 246 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: you mentioned stats where the stadiums, doesn't matter how new 247 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: they are. It doesn't seem to affect how the games 248 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: are actually played and whether you win or lose well. 249 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: And the funny thing is that it doesn't really affect 250 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: the city that they're played in. And I mean, there's 251 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: people way smarter than me, sports economists and such who 252 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: have done studies of you know, what happens when a 253 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: team leaves the city, or what happens when the team 254 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: arrives in a new city, and it doesn't really affect 255 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: the economy of this city at all. It doesn't really 256 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: affect the economy of the local businesses right near the 257 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: new stadium or the old stadium at all. It just seems, 258 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 1: you know, entertainment money gets spent on football or baseball, 259 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: or it gets spent on you know, the opera or 260 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: movies or some other form of entertainment if a team leaves, 261 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't really help a city to have 262 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: a major league team. Yet that's always the pitch. You know, 263 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: you have to be a major league city to be respected, 264 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: I guess in this country, and therefore you have to 265 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: have some sort of major League team. I mean, one 266 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: of the best things I ever saw was on HBO 267 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: Sports Real Sports, and there's this whole controversy over the 268 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: Marlin Stadium in Miami. And the guy for HBO Sports 269 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: was talking to one of the big wigs for the 270 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: Marlins and he said, well, you know who gets the 271 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: money for ticket sales? And he's like, well, the Marlins do. 272 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: He's like, he asks, well, then you know who gets 273 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: the money for the parking, Well the Marlins do. Who 274 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: gets you know, money for when there's another event held 275 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: in the Marlin Stadium, Well the Marlins do. And basically everything, 276 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: all the money went to the Marlins. At the end, 277 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: the interview for HBO Sports said well, what are the 278 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: people in Miami get and he said, well, they get 279 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: Marlin Baseball equated all that money. But you know you 280 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: get you get the honor of I mean, the Miami 281 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: Marland's play here. Wow. Great, thanks, despite the fact that 282 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: you built the city out about three million dollars. Great. Thanks. 283 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: Now this is um this is a good spot for 284 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: us to explore, um something else, like the other side 285 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: of this earlier, when we had asked, you know, why 286 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: isn't this reported more often than we uh, you know, 287 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: we learned that there is a vested interest in the 288 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: side of mainstream media. And we also learned that maybe 289 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: when someone puts on their Steelers hat or their Braves 290 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: hat or something or a jersey, that they're not thinking 291 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: as critically as they could. But still, of course there 292 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: will always be skeptics. So what what do you have 293 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: to say to the people who would who would allege that, um, 294 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: this doesn't happen, or this is somehow exaggerated, and and 295 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: how have the Big Four reacted to allegations of fixing. Well, 296 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: they don't have to react to the allegations because nobody's 297 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: making them, really besides myself. So you know, they're kind 298 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: of even the clear there. Um, you know, I can 299 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: talk to fans, it's funny, even my own friends. It 300 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: took a very long time to convince them that this 301 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: was perhaps a very real situation within the major leagues, 302 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: that games were being manipulated and fixed in various ways 303 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: for various reasons. And you know, if you're a true believer, 304 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: it's like trying to tell somebody, you know, Santa Claus 305 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: doesn't exist. You know, a kids like, what do you mean? 306 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: You know, they almost have to get it in their 307 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: head that this is a possibility and then start watching 308 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: games with that kind of mindset and remind them that, hey, look, 309 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: this is a business. Their business is entertainment. They're trying 310 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: to entertain you. Now watch how they potentially are manipulating 311 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: the games to do that. And if you watch games 312 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: with that mindset and watch how play off series evolved 313 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: and how these storylines evolved within the media about certain 314 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: players and certain teams, and you kind of put all 315 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: that together, I think then it can start to sink 316 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: in that maybe there is something bigger going on behind 317 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: the scenes to make certain outcomes happen, because that's what 318 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: they're promoting, and it's amazing what they're promoting seems to 319 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: always becoming true. So I mean, I think you have 320 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: to kind of put that nugget in their brain and 321 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: you have to let it germinate and grow in there. 322 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: It's just it's not like you could point to a 323 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: specific example and somebody's gonna turn on a dime. Because 324 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: a lot of times I can talk to people and say, oh, 325 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: think about this game or think about that game, and 326 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: they be like yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I mentioned 327 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: something with the team they like in it where their 328 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: team might have fixed the games. Then they're like whoa, whoa, 329 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: whoa No, no, no, that no, and then I lose them. 330 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: So it has to be something that's not totally personal 331 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: to them and then they can kind of go along 332 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: with it. But once it becomes personal to them, then 333 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: it's a different story. And we'll pause there just for 334 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: a moment. It's time for word from our sponsor. Let's 335 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: talk about an example from pretty recent times two thousand seven, 336 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: the case of former NBA referee Tim Donneghie, where he 337 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: was investigated by the FBI UM for what seemed like 338 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: game fixing. We'll get into it a little bit more, 339 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: but they ultimately did not pursue those particular charges and 340 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: instead we're looking more at wire fraud, UM, other kinds 341 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: of fraud. But UM, just for listeners, this guy was 342 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: a referee and a lot of sports experts to this 343 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: day are pretty convinced that he was able to influence 344 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: the course of the game. And UM, there was a 345 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: gentleman you use quotes from in UM your book that 346 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: talks about how he called him Elvis, and he said 347 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: he was the master because he could make calls that 348 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: seemed legit but ultimately kind of guided the course of 349 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 1: the game, and I just want to hear your take 350 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: on this case, and and I do you think he 351 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: was able to do that and have it not be 352 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: just clear as day that he was doing it? Well, 353 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: Donny he he was I think a thirteen year veteran 354 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: of the NBA when all this started taking place, and 355 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: he was actually I think one of the top three 356 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: rated officials in the NBA while he was supposedly involved 357 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: in this whole betting scheme, and what people think he 358 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: was doing was basically making more calls, more follow calls, 359 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: and kinda was more obscure follow calls than the other officials, 360 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: and they just assumed he was doing his job better 361 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,479 Speaker 1: the league supposedly, when in fact, he was kind of 362 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: doing this to influence the outcome of games, like he 363 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: was making bets on games that he officiated and winning 364 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: more often than not. Well, that's that's where the whole 365 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: gray area in the whole thing comes up, and why 366 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: he wasn't investigated for games fixing its don He claims 367 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: he wasn't fixing games and he wasn't really betting on 368 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: the games he officiated in he claims he was working 369 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: with this bookie he knew and giving him inside information 370 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: based on his knowledge of the other officials behavior and 371 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: how the league really operated, which goes back to my 372 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: idea of them manipulating their own games, and he was 373 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: making money that way. The book, he claims Donnie he 374 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: was pretty much outright fixing games and the only time 375 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: he really won money was on games Donnie he was 376 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: directly involved in. So it's kind of a he said, 377 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: he said situation, and my bet is they're both right, 378 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: and that's my guest. But the bat is is, Donnie 379 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: he would probably still be officiating today had the FBI 380 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: that being involved in a wire tap on some other 381 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: organized crime and investigation where one of the guys said, hey, 382 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: we have an NBA referee in our back pocket. Had 383 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: that not occurred, Donnie, he wasn't suspected at all by 384 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: the NBA for doing anything wrong. And really, I mean 385 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: there were some betters, some real heavy betters who bet 386 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: NBA exclusively kind of finding strange occurrences going on within 387 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: Donahue's games, But I mean, there was nothing that was 388 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: really public or anything that was really drawing a huge 389 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: interest from a lot of people into what was going on. 390 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: If it wasn't for that little flip of the tongue, 391 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: probably none of this would have come out. And that's 392 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: the scary part of it all is it could have 393 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: just happened that gone away, and nobody would have known 394 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: about it, because again my claim is that the sports 395 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: media that supposed to watchdog for professional sports and college 396 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: sports doesn't do nearly enough investigator reporting or really even 397 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: questioning the outcome of certain games and looking into the 398 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: potentiality for game fixing within American sports because it's again, 399 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: if the FBI can't prove it, house an investigative report, 400 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: are going to prove it, and nobody wants to hear it. 401 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: That's the other problem with sports and sports fans is 402 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: they don't want to hear this sort of thing. They 403 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: just want to be entertained and see these games transpire 404 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: and just be entertained by it, just like they went 405 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,479 Speaker 1: to a movie or watched the TV show. That's all 406 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: they really care about, and that's what the sports mean 407 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: your panders to. So, speaking of the sports media, we've 408 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: talked a lot about slippery cases or murky cases for 409 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: our listeners, Brian, our our folks are gonna hang hang 410 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: us by our toes if we don't talk about FIFA, 411 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: which is one of the most recent and UH most 412 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: damning UH scandals in recent times. What we're talking about, 413 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: specifically is when the US Department of Justice indicted fourteen 414 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: current and former FIFA officials and associates on charges of 415 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: and I quote, rampant, systemic and deep rooted corruption following 416 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: a major inquiry by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. And 417 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: earlier you had mentioned some of the FBI documents. UH. 418 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: And we know that we know that law enforcement has 419 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: been invested gating corruption and sports in the past. UH. 420 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: And we also know that there is very strong evidence 421 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: that US government agencies have in the past colluded with 422 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: organized crime in separate instances. Could could we explore briefly 423 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: why FIFA was indicted, but why these other you know, 424 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: the US based leagues have not had more investigation. That's 425 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: a good question, because to be honest, I don't think 426 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: anybody was more surprised than myself that it was the 427 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: Americans that basically busted FIFA for what they were doing. 428 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: I mean, it really blew my mind because there's a 429 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: lot of kind of international organizations that are being been 430 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: created based off this fixing scandals. And such that has 431 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: occurred in Europe, in the Far East and other places 432 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: around the world within soccer, and it doesn't seem like 433 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: there's really any Americans involved in any of It's always 434 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: kind of a European thing or South American thing. It 435 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like America gets involved in. Yet, when this 436 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: whole FIFA bribery scandal kind of came out and this 437 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: corruption scandal came out, I was shocked that it was 438 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: the FBI and the Department of Justice that was the 439 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: one that really went after FIFA because it didn't seem 440 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: like they were interested in it at any time before 441 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: the announcement came that they're going after him. So it 442 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: really kind of surprised me. And it's not it's interesting 443 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: because you know FIFA. I think I really think the 444 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: main reason the Americans went after FIFA was because we 445 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: were mad we didn't corrupt them well enough, because I 446 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: think what happened was this, you know, Russia, and it 447 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: was cutter guitar however you want to pronounce it, basically 448 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: bribed FIFA to get the World Cup to come to 449 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: those countries. And nobody knows why in God's green Earth 450 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: they would want to play uh soccer tournament in the 451 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: middle of the desert in the middle of the summer 452 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: like they would in Qatar. But when they paid so 453 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: much money to FIFA wealth, that's how they got it. 454 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,719 Speaker 1: And there were in America was in the running for 455 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: both of those World Cups and we lost out on it. 456 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: And I think that's why the investigation took places. We 457 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: kind of felt like we got screwed in a way, 458 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: and so we started investigating and looking into it. And 459 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: the fact is is nobody is really surprised if there's 460 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: corruption with FIFA that we've known. There's been corruption within 461 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: FIFA for a very very long time. It's just it's 462 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: really hard to go after it. And I think that's 463 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: the same reason it's hard to go after the NFL 464 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: or the NBA or that sort of thing. And it's 465 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: really hard to pick this stuff apart and root it 466 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: out because you know, sports and the like, the sports 467 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: bribe react then involves fixing games. In investigating fixing games 468 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: here in the United States, you know, is that really 469 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: important compared to all the other things the FBI could 470 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: be investigating and looking into. I mean, on the grand 471 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: scale of things, you know, a fixed NFL game doesn't 472 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: really mean that much to a lot of people. I mean, 473 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: you know, as opposed to what happened why the FB 474 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: I really kind of quit investigating was the War on 475 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: drugs was initiated, and terrorism came up and all these 476 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: other things that kind of took precidents over looking to 477 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: do a fixed college basketball game. And I think that's 478 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: the same with the FIEFA thing is for the longest time, 479 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: nobody really cared because there was bigger fish to fry, 480 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: and then suddenly this became one of the bigger fish, 481 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: so they decided to finally go after it. And I 482 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: think it's been in the news quite a bit lately. Um, 483 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: I mean in the past as well. Uh, just these 484 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: high profile doping programs that have been exposed, like the 485 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: most recent one was the Russian Olympic team. Um. Why 486 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: do you think that the general public and sports fans 487 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: are less willing to believe that sports fixing is taking 488 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: place when these programs are known to exist and often 489 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: be systematic and supported by officials, you know, for example 490 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: with the Russian Olympic team and people turning a blind eye. 491 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: And do you see any similarity or differences in doping 492 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: with the idea of sports fixing, isn't it its own 493 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: kind of sports fixing? Well, they've also known that, you know, 494 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: some of the guys who have been fixing like the 495 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: soccer matches and stuff, have been using performers dancing drugs 496 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: to get to the players. They use it as they're in, 497 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: They provide the performance enhancing and drugs and then basically 498 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: blackmail them once they provided it to them to get 499 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: them to alter the outcome of games. And that's one 500 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: of the kind of are in. I guess what I 501 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: mean is is like what is the base level? Like 502 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: what why do people feel like they need to believe 503 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: that everyone is on an equal playing field all the 504 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 1: time when we know that performance enhancing dancing drugs are 505 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: at play as well. You know, why is it? Sus 506 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: it's altering the outcome of games to performers enhancing drugs, 507 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we know if you look back 508 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: and we know Sammy Sylison Mark McGuire were hitting all 509 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: those home runs because they were using some sort of steroids. 510 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: We know Barry Bonds was doing the same thing, and 511 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: that's altering the outcome of numerous games. Hundreds of games 512 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: were altered because all of these players, those three and 513 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: many many more for using performance enhancing drugs in some way, 514 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: shape or form. So I mean, you know, you look 515 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: at like you just take baseball. I mean, how many games, 516 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: how many you know, playoffs, how many World series? How 517 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: many outcomes were changed because some other athletes were cheating 518 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: by using drugs that they shouldn't have been using. And 519 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: how many today the NFL players are using drugs that 520 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: they shouldn't be using. And how many games has that 521 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: changed the outcome of I mean, and that's that's I 522 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: think kind of getting your question is I mean, you know, 523 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: people say, oh, you know, games aren't being fixed, that 524 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: can't be happening. Yet at the same time, well, if 525 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: these guys are using illegal by the league standards, illegal 526 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: performance enhancing drugs to play better, to be faster, stronger, 527 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: jump further, score more you know, runs, score more touchdowns, 528 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: whatever it is that's altering the outcome of a game. 529 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: That's a manipulated fixed game in some way, shape or form, 530 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: I mean, isn't it. I mean, it's not the legit game. 531 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: It's not clean athletes against clean athletes doing their best 532 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,959 Speaker 1: to see who wins. There's some cheating going on involved 533 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: in it's I guess it's just a matter of you know, 534 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: a personal opinion of what your scale of cheating you're 535 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: willing to accept or not accept. So we have a 536 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,719 Speaker 1: couple of specific examples that we wanted to ask you about, 537 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: and Matt, you have one with the UFC, right, Oh, yeah, 538 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: I was just reading Vanderley Silva, you know, a former 539 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: Pride champion for the UFC. For a time, he was 540 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: alleging that he has or he says at least that 541 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: he has proof that the UFC fixes fights, and I 542 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: just wanted to see if you had seen anything or 543 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: heard anything with evidence to that statement. Well, I had 544 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: heard about Silva saying that. Um, I've obviously seen what 545 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: his evidence is. But would it shocked me in any way, 546 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: shape or form. No, Because if you look at boxing 547 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: in a history of boxing and you see how incredibly 548 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: corrupt boxing was, the UFC operates in exactly the same way. 549 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: I mean boxing historically, there's a guy named Primo Carnera. 550 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: Carnara was a heavyweight champion fact the hundred years ago. 551 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is he was a 552 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: constructive organized crime. He never fought in a legitimate fight, 553 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: except for one time when the mobsters thought he would win. 554 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: He lost. But they fixed every fight he fought in 555 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: all the way to and including the heavyweight Championship of 556 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: the World. They fixed every fight for him to win, 557 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: and then once he won, they butt heavily against him 558 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: in the next fight, had him fight a real contender. 559 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: They made a bunch of money because he lost, and 560 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: they just let him go and he went to rott 561 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: and he actually wound up in professional wrestling. But I 562 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: mean the thing, the UFC doesn't have that ability to 563 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: control the manipulate fights. I think it is ludicrous because again, 564 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: you look at boxing and you can point a hundred 565 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: and fifty years of boxing and see all sorts of corruption, 566 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: all sorts of fixing, all sorts of the things that 567 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: Silver was a legend, and it wouldn't surprise me, but 568 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: it will probably shock the hell out of a lot 569 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: of fans because they think, again, they live up to 570 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: those cliches, are gonna go out and try their best, 571 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: and they trained so hard and they're gonna, you know, 572 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: do the or you know, live again, live up to 573 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: all the cliches. And I just don't see why people 574 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: think the UFC is clean when they know historically you 575 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: can see corruption of boxing from top to bottom. Just 576 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: to stay on the UFC for a second, it's fascinating 577 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: to me because it is one of the most popular 578 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: emerging sport forms that has come out in you know, 579 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: the past couple of decades and I and you know, 580 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: when you see it as an organization being sold for 581 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: four billion dollars and then you just think that's just 582 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: representative of the clean money, the money that's on the surface. 583 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: You know, what they can make with pay per view 584 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: and with with fight selling tickets and all that stuff 585 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: and merch it's just crazy to think about the money 586 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: that surrounds it in the black market. Yeah. Well, also 587 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: with the UFC two is you know, they used to 588 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: have like things like the Fight of the Night bonus, 589 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: which they would have whatever, like six fights on the 590 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: card for a particular night, and yet they would guarantee 591 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: like fifty dollars to whoever whichever match was declared in 592 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: the Fight of the night. Now, if you're like one 593 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: of the preliminary fights and you're only getting paid a 594 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: few thousand dollars for the prelimp fight, wouldn't you maybe 595 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: go to the guy you're fighting and say, hey, look 596 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: we can split fifty grand. If we're the quote unquote 597 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: fight of the night, why don't we go out there 598 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: and give them one heck of a show. You know, 599 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: maybe you know the first round, you win, the second round, 600 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: I win, in the third round, we'll fight for real 601 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: and see who wins this thing. But if we put 602 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: on a good enough performance, we're going to get some 603 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: extra money. And I mean, those are the little ways 604 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: that a league can manipulate their own events, but do 605 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: so without really dictating what happens, you know what I mean. 606 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: They don't have to have that direct you lose, you 607 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: win type of thing. They can just put little things 608 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: out there. They can just tweak things enough that you 609 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: get a better and more exciting event than perhaps you 610 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: would have if everything was on the level. It's a 611 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: great point. So, Brian, one of the things that we've 612 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: learned in the in the course of exploring your work 613 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: and in this interview, is that this is not a 614 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: victimless crime. You said it earlier in the show, and 615 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: we just want to re emphasize that because, as you said, 616 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: the money that people spend, even on a street level 617 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: is funneling upward into an institutionalized system that is involved 618 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: in drug running, arms trafficking, racketeering, loan sharking, prostitution as well, 619 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: which brings us to which brings us to a relatively 620 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: personal question. Do you or have you ever felt that 621 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: your life was in danger or threatened as a result 622 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: of your investigations into these scandals. No, I've never really 623 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: felt personally threatened, like physically threatened by anything that I've researched. Um, 624 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: but I know, like career wise, but what I research 625 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: isn't the best best road to take. I mean, I've 626 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: dealt with, you know, the likes of ESPN, and I've 627 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: dealt with Sports Illustrated and a lot of other media outlets, 628 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: and I know my name has got to be on 629 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: certain lists within each one of those organizations, the media organizations, 630 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: that's who I deal with. And I'm sure I'm on 631 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: the NFL's radar and the NBA's radar in some other 632 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: places as well. And I mean I've seen, I mean, 633 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: just from a personal aspect, I know I've been kind 634 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: of censored by the media. I mean, when I released 635 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: Larceny Games through my publisher, which was Ferrellhouse, Larceny Games 636 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: was based on over four d FBI files that I 637 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: was the first one to obtain. No one ever gone 638 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: after those files until I got them, and I wrote 639 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: this whole book based on those files, which revealed literally 640 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame athletes accused by the FBI of either 641 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,399 Speaker 1: betting on their own sport or even betting on games 642 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: in which they play, which should be huge news. And 643 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: when the book was released, ESPN, Yahoo, Sports, Sports, Illustrated, 644 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: HBO Sports, sixty Minutes, and a few others all contacted 645 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: by publisher and wanted to copy the book to review it. 646 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: And they all got the book and not one of 647 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: them did anything with the book whatsoever. Nobody reviewed it, 648 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,760 Speaker 1: Nobody said this is the worst book ever written. Nobody 649 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: followed up on any of the information that I had uncovered. 650 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: Nobody did anything within the sports media regarding this book 651 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,479 Speaker 1: except the New York Post. And the New York Post 652 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 1: ran a story based off of one of the files 653 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: I had uncovered, which said that nearly eighties, members of 654 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: the New York Knicks were shaving points is a favorite 655 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: to their cocaine dealer, and they made it kind of 656 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: a backpage thing, and that went viral. It was funny 657 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 1: because the author who wrote the piece of New York 658 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: Post sent me a text like a seventh third he said, oh, 659 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: it's online now, and like a half hour later said, oh, 660 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: you know, the Sports Illustrated picked up on this little 661 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: post and it went viral. And it's amazing because you 662 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: can look online now. You can go to Google and 663 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: you know search, you know, New York Knicks, shaving points, 664 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: cocaine dealer, and you'll see that article or you know, 665 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: a link to that article on all sorts of outlets 666 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 1: except ESPN. ESPN never touched it because the ESPN is 667 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: the primary broadcast partner of the National Basketball Association and 668 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: they just simply wouldn't cover the story. Despite the fact 669 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,919 Speaker 1: that it's like thirty years old, they still wouldn't cover 670 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: it because of the association between the league and the network. 671 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: And I mean, I've felt that pushback and many other 672 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: aspects of my little writing career here and investigating fixed games, 673 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: because the major sports leagues and the major sports media 674 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: outlets are really intertwined and they don't want this sort 675 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: of information getting out there. Yeah, and just to drop 676 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,839 Speaker 1: a sidebar in here, as we're wrapping this up. We're 677 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: big fans off your work on Vice Sports, which which 678 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: we thought it was a very good thing to see 679 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: this message spreading to other places, and we would like 680 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: for our listeners who are interested in this too, you 681 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: come check out your work in some other venues or 682 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: we do a section sometimes called further reading. Uh, where 683 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: would you point interested audience members to learn more about 684 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: this phenomenon? You mean besides my own work, your own 685 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: work as well. We have larceny games, uh, the Fixes 686 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: in and we also have a season in the Abyss. 687 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yeah, those are the three books that 688 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: kind of regarding the subject to sports and corruption. UM. Otherwise, 689 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: think go my website, which, like you said earlier, was 690 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: the fixes in dot net um writing I did before. 691 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: You can find some of it on the sports on 692 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: earth dot com and he said Vice Sports UM has 693 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: it on their website as well. Another guy who's really 694 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: there's a couple of things you can check out to 695 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: finished older things. UM. This guy by the name of 696 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: Declin Hill. He's really the prime investigator into match fixing 697 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: and corruption within soccer, and Declan Hill is he wrote 698 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: a book called I think it is simply called The 699 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: Fix and it involved him really getting involved in getting 700 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,720 Speaker 1: up close and personal with the guys who are fixing 701 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: soccer matches, and it's a great work um as well 702 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: on the subject. And the last thing here, Brian, for 703 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 1: all of these sports fans listening that are concerned about 704 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: this stuff and kind of maybe for the first time 705 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: really realizing how how rampant fixing is, is there anything 706 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: we can do. I think the only way to influence 707 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: a sport or sports league is to not watch. And 708 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: that's the hardest thing to do if you're a fan, 709 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: because I think the only thing that really affects the 710 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: owners and the leagues themselves is money, and if they're 711 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,399 Speaker 1: rating drop and they sense that things aren't going their 712 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: way financially, then they'll change things. Because I think one 713 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: of the reasons Major League Baseball is somewhat and I 714 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: won't say a lot, but somewhat gotten better at like 715 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: drug testing than their steroids within the game is buried 716 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: by us because Barry Bonds was such a jackass when 717 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: you broke Hankharin's record, and you broke the Yell season 718 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: long home run record, that fans kind of rebelled against 719 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: him because they realized that even if the sports media, 720 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: the hallowed Baseball writers of America wouldn't come out and 721 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: say this guy's using steroids. Fans realized this guy at 722 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: on the level, and I think they kind of rebelled 723 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: and kind of rebelled against baseball at that time, and 724 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: that did cause some influence within Major League Baseball to say, oh, 725 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: you know what, maybe we should try to fix this 726 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: problem because the fans aren't happy. And if they're not happy, 727 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: they're not coming to games, they're not watching games, and 728 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: we're not going to make as much money. So I 729 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: think the only way to really affect the league, to 730 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: get them to change the way you might want them 731 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: to change, is to affect him in their pocketbook. And 732 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: unfortunately the only way to do that is to not 733 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: attend to games and not watch the stuff on television 734 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: because that's the only thing they know. Man, I can't 735 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: thank you enough for coming on the show and hanging out, 736 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: you guys having me. I'm kind of sad that interview ended. Yeah, 737 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: I wish we were still there talking with Brian learning 738 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: about all these things, like I kind of want to 739 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: learn so much to where I can start making money gambling. Careful, buddy, careful, 740 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: what why, Because you got real nice fingers. I'd hate 741 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: to see him smashed by a hammer. Hate fresh fingers 742 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: to be an ironic nickname. Maybe that's why it was foreshadowing. No, 743 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: but seriously, Brian was such a nice dude and knowledgeable 744 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: and really generous with his time and willingness to talk 745 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: about this stuff, and I was kind of uh. I 746 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: was interested in the fact that he does not feel 747 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: particularly threatened or you know, intimidated by, you know, some 748 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,760 Speaker 1: of these organizations. But at the same time, it's probably 749 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: not the most popular opinion to have if you want 750 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,439 Speaker 1: to get a job writing for Sports Illustrated. He did. 751 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: He did make a really good point where he said, 752 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: you know, like just heard earlier that he didn't feel 753 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: physically threatened, but he did feel like his career was 754 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: he felt as though he were getting black balled at 755 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: certain points. So we hope that you have enjoyed this episode, 756 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. We know that for some of our 757 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: die hard sports fans out there, it might seem like 758 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: your team is an exception to the rule. We don't 759 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: have hard proof of all of this happening, right, but 760 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: if you want more information, the books that Noel mentioned 761 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: in the previous episode and then we mentioned throughout the 762 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: interview are great reads and they're worth your time because 763 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: this guy is a really talented writer as well. Yes, 764 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,320 Speaker 1: and I think the concept that Brian puts out about 765 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: point shaving uh and the point spread really really makes it, 766 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,399 Speaker 1: at least for me a little easier to see how 767 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff could happen kind of under the 768 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 1: noses of everyone to where they're small things, you know, 769 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: little death by thousand cuts, rather than one guy going 770 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: in and throwing a whole game overtly to where you 771 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: can just tell watching your television. It's definitely something to 772 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: think about. And I don't know about you, ladies and gentlemen. 773 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, Matt Noel, but I'm not 774 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: gonna be able to look at large sporting events the 775 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: same way. Yeah. I mean, if I ever watch a 776 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: second football game, it's gonna be really difficult for me 777 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: to you know, enjoy it and the way that I 778 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 1: did the first one that I watched. Okay, what you 779 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: were watching with an ulterior motive? To be fair, what 780 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,240 Speaker 1: are you getting at, man? I don't have ulterior motives, 781 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: I am. What you see is what you get. That's 782 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 1: my nickname. You know, what you see is what you 783 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: get brown They you know what they say about me, 784 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm an open book in a meadow on a sunny day. 785 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,720 Speaker 1: Nobody says that about you. Everybody says that except for you. Guys. 786 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: The problem is there's nobody around. The meadow is just 787 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: completely empty. It's just Ben's book open in the middle 788 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 1: of it. Okay, al right, guys. We don't all have 789 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,880 Speaker 1: to agree on our analogies for each other or our comparisons, 790 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:07,320 Speaker 1: but we do agree that if you like this show, 791 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,799 Speaker 1: you are in luck because we make so much other 792 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: stuff as well. You can see, uh, you can see 793 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,839 Speaker 1: videos that we do live or I guess not live, 794 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: prerecorded can can? I don't want to say dead um? 795 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: On our Facebook and our Twitter page. We are a 796 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff at both of those, and we have an 797 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: Instagram conspiracy stuff show. Sorry, conspiracy stuff. Let's taken furthermore. 798 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: If you'd like to check out every audio podcast we've 799 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,239 Speaker 1: ever done, you can visit our website. Stuff they don't 800 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,760 Speaker 1: want you to know? Dot Com? What is it? Stuff 801 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know? Dot Com? Okay, I 802 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: got it. It's a lot it's notthful, it is, but 803 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: it's worth your time. Everything we've ever done is there, 804 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: and now it's time for the most important part of 805 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: the show, really, where we ask you for your ideas. 806 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: This is your show as well, and our ideas come 807 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: from listeners like you. Specifically you listening to this Nope, nope, 808 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 1: not the person next to you. I'm not talking about them. 809 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about a vague you. Specifically, your ideas. 810 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: We want to hear them. So, what are some of 811 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: the topics that come to your mind as you're listening 812 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,959 Speaker 1: to this episode that are surrounding sports fixing that maybe 813 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: we didn't hit on, that we could cover further in 814 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: the future, or maybe there's something in here you just 815 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: want to hear more about. Let us know you can 816 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: write to us directly. We are conspiracy at how stuff 817 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:54,799 Speaker 1: works dot com.