1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:24,236 Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is solvable. I'm Jacob Weisberg. You know, much 2 00:00:24,316 --> 00:00:27,796 Speaker 1: like using ride sharing. They'll get a text when it's saying, hey, 3 00:00:27,876 --> 00:00:29,996 Speaker 1: the product's one minute away, please step outside. It's going 4 00:00:30,036 --> 00:00:34,116 Speaker 1: to be delivered in your mailbox. Drone delivery items falling 5 00:00:34,156 --> 00:00:36,676 Speaker 1: from the sky right to your mailbox with just the 6 00:00:36,716 --> 00:00:40,916 Speaker 1: push of a button. Are you excited nervous? They don't 7 00:00:40,916 --> 00:00:44,116 Speaker 1: call them drones, they just call them sky ambulances. Keller 8 00:00:44,196 --> 00:00:48,196 Speaker 1: Renato runs zip Line International. To be clear, his drone 9 00:00:48,196 --> 00:00:51,636 Speaker 1: delivery service isn't dropping off last minute anniversary presence or 10 00:00:51,756 --> 00:00:55,996 Speaker 1: late night takeout. Zip Line is focused on delivering medical supplies. 11 00:00:56,996 --> 00:01:00,436 Speaker 1: According to the WHO, over five million kids under the 12 00:01:00,476 --> 00:01:03,156 Speaker 1: age of five die every year due to a lack 13 00:01:03,156 --> 00:01:08,116 Speaker 1: of access to basic medical products and care. Zipline regularly 14 00:01:08,156 --> 00:01:13,596 Speaker 1: delivers whole blood platelets, fresh frozen plasma, and clotting products. 15 00:01:14,116 --> 00:01:17,196 Speaker 1: These kinds of medical deliveries are especially helpful in places 16 00:01:17,196 --> 00:01:20,836 Speaker 1: with unreliable roads and large populations living in remote and 17 00:01:20,956 --> 00:01:24,836 Speaker 1: rural areas. Today, zip line deliveries can reach just about 18 00:01:24,876 --> 00:01:29,316 Speaker 1: any location across Rwanda and the entirety of Ghana, and 19 00:01:29,396 --> 00:01:33,596 Speaker 1: they just started to deliver in the US so North 20 00:01:33,596 --> 00:01:36,596 Speaker 1: Carolina is learning from Rwanda. Is that how you would 21 00:01:36,676 --> 00:01:41,276 Speaker 1: characterize it? During this pandemic, the ability to take medical 22 00:01:41,316 --> 00:01:44,916 Speaker 1: appointments online has been a lifesaver, keeping us safely away 23 00:01:44,996 --> 00:01:48,316 Speaker 1: from enclosed office spaces and out of hospitals that are 24 00:01:48,356 --> 00:01:52,676 Speaker 1: overcrowded with COVID nineteen emergencies. Zip Line sees the work 25 00:01:52,756 --> 00:01:55,476 Speaker 1: they do as the next step in a remote medical 26 00:01:55,556 --> 00:01:59,356 Speaker 1: service chain. In many ways, the logistics service, the kind 27 00:01:59,356 --> 00:02:01,716 Speaker 1: of instant delivery the zipline provides, is just the other 28 00:02:01,756 --> 00:02:05,476 Speaker 1: half of the telepresence. Kelornado is the CEO and founder 29 00:02:05,516 --> 00:02:09,276 Speaker 1: of zip Line International. My sollable is making sure that 30 00:02:09,356 --> 00:02:11,836 Speaker 1: every human on earth has access to basic medical products. 31 00:02:14,756 --> 00:02:18,036 Speaker 1: My co host an Apple Bomb, spoke with Renaldo. Here's 32 00:02:18,036 --> 00:02:22,476 Speaker 1: their conversation. Explain to me how it works. In other words, 33 00:02:22,196 --> 00:02:24,476 Speaker 1: there's a there's a nurse who sees that she needs 34 00:02:24,476 --> 00:02:28,436 Speaker 1: a particular blood product in rural Tanzania. Does she pick 35 00:02:28,516 --> 00:02:31,156 Speaker 1: up a phone and call someone? Is? How does the 36 00:02:31,196 --> 00:02:33,956 Speaker 1: system work? And how is it that the drones are 37 00:02:33,996 --> 00:02:36,236 Speaker 1: ready to go? And you know, are they are they 38 00:02:36,236 --> 00:02:38,276 Speaker 1: in some kind of medical base to start with? What 39 00:02:38,316 --> 00:02:40,356 Speaker 1: does the system look like? Although there's a lot of 40 00:02:40,396 --> 00:02:43,756 Speaker 1: complicated technology behind the service that we provide. The experience 41 00:02:43,756 --> 00:02:46,116 Speaker 1: of the service itself is extremely simple, which is essentially 42 00:02:46,156 --> 00:02:48,196 Speaker 1: a push a button on a phone, get the medical 43 00:02:48,236 --> 00:02:50,316 Speaker 1: product that you need to save a patient's life delivered 44 00:02:50,316 --> 00:02:53,996 Speaker 1: to your GPS coordinates. There's no training really required for 45 00:02:54,076 --> 00:02:58,036 Speaker 1: nurses or doctors or health workers. They can place orders 46 00:02:58,156 --> 00:03:00,636 Speaker 1: in a number of different ways, either via an online 47 00:03:00,676 --> 00:03:03,316 Speaker 1: form or by calling a phone number, or also by 48 00:03:03,396 --> 00:03:06,996 Speaker 1: using what'sapp. What'sapp actually winds up being an incredibly reliable 49 00:03:07,236 --> 00:03:10,916 Speaker 1: kind of infrastructure in a lot of these countries, and 50 00:03:10,956 --> 00:03:13,836 Speaker 1: so any nurse or doctor or health worker can place 51 00:03:13,876 --> 00:03:18,356 Speaker 1: an order. All of the complexity of you know, autonomous 52 00:03:18,356 --> 00:03:21,156 Speaker 1: aircraft and like getting regulatory approval and knowing how to 53 00:03:21,476 --> 00:03:24,436 Speaker 1: do safety and maintenance, etc. Is kind of handled in 54 00:03:24,476 --> 00:03:26,956 Speaker 1: the background. You know, they'll get a text message saying 55 00:03:27,236 --> 00:03:29,476 Speaker 1: thanks for letting us know an order has been dispatched. 56 00:03:29,516 --> 00:03:32,676 Speaker 1: It is twenty four minutes away. And then much like 57 00:03:32,876 --> 00:03:36,116 Speaker 1: using ride sharing, they'll get a text when it's saying, hey, 58 00:03:36,156 --> 00:03:38,316 Speaker 1: the products one minute away, please step outside. It's going 59 00:03:38,356 --> 00:03:41,036 Speaker 1: to be delivered into your mailbox. And the runes really 60 00:03:41,036 --> 00:03:43,796 Speaker 1: move fast enough to make this work. Yeah, So that 61 00:03:44,436 --> 00:03:47,436 Speaker 1: you know, the simple technology, Zipline builds distribution centers and 62 00:03:47,476 --> 00:03:50,556 Speaker 1: then the aircraft themselves. We employ teams of engineers and 63 00:03:50,596 --> 00:03:55,116 Speaker 1: operators at each distribution center. Each distribution center can serve 64 00:03:55,276 --> 00:03:58,036 Speaker 1: around twenty thousand square kilometers or something like eight thousand 65 00:03:58,076 --> 00:04:01,356 Speaker 1: square miles, which is typically between two and ten million people. 66 00:04:01,356 --> 00:04:03,316 Speaker 1: So for example, we cover the whole country of rwand 67 00:04:03,356 --> 00:04:05,796 Speaker 1: that with two distribution centers cover the whole country of 68 00:04:05,796 --> 00:04:09,556 Speaker 1: Ghana with about eight. That's where we store inventory of 69 00:04:09,596 --> 00:04:13,196 Speaker 1: medical products. And then each distribution center will serve around 70 00:04:13,676 --> 00:04:16,596 Speaker 1: two hundred to four hundred primary care facilities and hospitals, 71 00:04:16,716 --> 00:04:19,916 Speaker 1: and each of those facilities is getting a delivery, often 72 00:04:20,196 --> 00:04:22,676 Speaker 1: several times a day, sometimes several times a week, depending 73 00:04:22,676 --> 00:04:25,676 Speaker 1: on the size of the facility. But essentially is just teleportation. 74 00:04:25,996 --> 00:04:29,116 Speaker 1: It means that now tell it's possible to teleport products 75 00:04:29,156 --> 00:04:32,236 Speaker 1: from a central place out to all these different places 76 00:04:32,236 --> 00:04:35,596 Speaker 1: where patients may need something. The benefit of having a 77 00:04:35,636 --> 00:04:40,036 Speaker 1: teleportation like service for national healthcare systems is that they 78 00:04:40,036 --> 00:04:45,116 Speaker 1: can dramatically improve access, particularly for vulnerable populations. They can 79 00:04:45,196 --> 00:04:48,436 Speaker 1: reduce waste because you're sending less stuff out to the 80 00:04:48,556 --> 00:04:51,156 Speaker 1: last mile and before it's actually needed by a patient. 81 00:04:51,876 --> 00:04:53,836 Speaker 1: And finally, you can actually increase the diversity of the 82 00:04:53,836 --> 00:04:55,876 Speaker 1: products that are available at primary care facilities. So it 83 00:04:55,876 --> 00:04:58,036 Speaker 1: makes it possible to treat patients closer where they live. 84 00:04:58,556 --> 00:05:00,996 Speaker 1: And what are the finances of it? Isn't it too 85 00:05:00,996 --> 00:05:04,716 Speaker 1: expensive for a country like Rwanda to have to have 86 00:05:04,756 --> 00:05:08,236 Speaker 1: a drone service delivering medication when it comes to questions 87 00:05:08,236 --> 00:05:09,996 Speaker 1: around the unit ac comics of what we do, that's 88 00:05:09,996 --> 00:05:12,836 Speaker 1: actually one of the big advantages of delivering in this way. 89 00:05:13,076 --> 00:05:14,676 Speaker 1: If you have a lot of medicine in the system 90 00:05:14,876 --> 00:05:18,036 Speaker 1: and a lot of these things expire, it's very expensive, 91 00:05:18,516 --> 00:05:22,196 Speaker 1: may have specific storage requirements or short shelf life. A 92 00:05:22,196 --> 00:05:24,396 Speaker 1: lot of medicine gets thrown out. Millions and millions of 93 00:05:24,436 --> 00:05:27,076 Speaker 1: dollars in medicine actually expires every year and gets thrown out. 94 00:05:27,356 --> 00:05:30,836 Speaker 1: And so by having a more efficient logistics system that 95 00:05:30,916 --> 00:05:34,516 Speaker 1: by the way, is cost comparable to using trucks or motorcycles, 96 00:05:34,676 --> 00:05:38,036 Speaker 1: you can actually save these healthcare systems a lot of money. 97 00:05:38,276 --> 00:05:42,076 Speaker 1: So is this a little bit like as has been 98 00:05:42,116 --> 00:05:44,676 Speaker 1: the case in a number of countries, including a lot 99 00:05:44,676 --> 00:05:49,156 Speaker 1: of African countries, that people get cell phones before landlines 100 00:05:49,196 --> 00:05:52,956 Speaker 1: earns or established. Essentially you're offering a technology that's higher 101 00:05:52,956 --> 00:05:55,436 Speaker 1: and better than they would have if they were doing 102 00:05:55,516 --> 00:05:58,956 Speaker 1: road deliveries. Are we skipping a stage of infrastructure in 103 00:05:59,036 --> 00:06:01,796 Speaker 1: order to do this? That is exactly how we often 104 00:06:01,876 --> 00:06:05,356 Speaker 1: think about about this, and that's typically called leap frogging 105 00:06:05,516 --> 00:06:09,076 Speaker 1: in global development, and the idea of leap frogging land 106 00:06:09,156 --> 00:06:10,836 Speaker 1: lines to go straight to cell phones. I think it's 107 00:06:10,836 --> 00:06:13,396 Speaker 1: a very similar thing to what's happening here. It's often 108 00:06:13,436 --> 00:06:17,196 Speaker 1: the countries that have the highest need and the ability 109 00:06:17,236 --> 00:06:20,316 Speaker 1: to move quickly on a new technology, they can actually 110 00:06:20,356 --> 00:06:23,716 Speaker 1: innovate the fastest. So for example, Kenya has like the 111 00:06:23,796 --> 00:06:26,276 Speaker 1: highest rate of adoption for mobile payments of any country 112 00:06:26,276 --> 00:06:27,756 Speaker 1: on Earth. I believe that was the case at least 113 00:06:27,756 --> 00:06:32,116 Speaker 1: a year ago. Rwanda and Ghana have fully autonomous systems 114 00:06:32,236 --> 00:06:36,676 Speaker 1: delivering large percentages of their healthcare supply chains and in 115 00:06:36,716 --> 00:06:39,876 Speaker 1: a cost effective way, and that network of distribution centers 116 00:06:39,916 --> 00:06:44,036 Speaker 1: has become the largest commercial autonomous system on Earth. Funny 117 00:06:44,116 --> 00:06:47,036 Speaker 1: if I have been to both Rwanda and Ghana and 118 00:06:47,436 --> 00:06:50,756 Speaker 1: relative to other countries in the in their respective regions, 119 00:06:50,796 --> 00:06:53,836 Speaker 1: both of them, for very different reasons, are relatively well run. 120 00:06:54,436 --> 00:06:56,916 Speaker 1: That's true, you know, would this work in a less 121 00:06:56,956 --> 00:06:59,516 Speaker 1: well run country. I mean, how much do you depend 122 00:06:59,636 --> 00:07:03,396 Speaker 1: on the local health bureaucracy and you know, the training 123 00:07:03,476 --> 00:07:08,596 Speaker 1: of local bureaucrats and technicians. I mean, it doesn't work without, 124 00:07:09,156 --> 00:07:11,036 Speaker 1: you know, an amazing partner on the other side. A 125 00:07:11,076 --> 00:07:12,956 Speaker 1: lot of the success that we've had in Rwanda and 126 00:07:12,996 --> 00:07:15,316 Speaker 1: Ghana is thanks to exactly as you said. You know, 127 00:07:15,356 --> 00:07:18,116 Speaker 1: we chose Rwanda and Ghana for a reason, really innovative 128 00:07:18,116 --> 00:07:21,076 Speaker 1: governments that are moving fast or investing in healthcare, investing 129 00:07:21,116 --> 00:07:24,876 Speaker 1: in infrastructure. And for sure, there are some governments, both 130 00:07:24,876 --> 00:07:26,636 Speaker 1: in Africa but also other parts of the world that 131 00:07:26,676 --> 00:07:29,716 Speaker 1: just are not well enough organized probably to take advantage 132 00:07:29,716 --> 00:07:32,116 Speaker 1: of this kind of technology yet. But that said, I 133 00:07:32,116 --> 00:07:33,756 Speaker 1: mean there are a lot of countries that are now 134 00:07:33,836 --> 00:07:36,916 Speaker 1: following in Rwanda and Ghana's footsteps, the US, you know, 135 00:07:37,756 --> 00:07:40,836 Speaker 1: potentially the biggest among them. A lot of countries are 136 00:07:40,876 --> 00:07:42,836 Speaker 1: looking at what they've achieved. I mean, the fact that 137 00:07:42,916 --> 00:07:47,036 Speaker 1: Rwanda is now providing universal access to healthcare for every 138 00:07:47,036 --> 00:07:50,076 Speaker 1: single one of its fifteen million or so citizens in 139 00:07:50,116 --> 00:07:53,276 Speaker 1: a way that is a cost effective and be enables 140 00:07:53,276 --> 00:07:55,956 Speaker 1: all these new paradigms of care, especially close to where 141 00:07:55,996 --> 00:07:59,276 Speaker 1: people live and This is something that impacts every healthcare system, 142 00:07:59,396 --> 00:08:02,196 Speaker 1: especially coming out of this pandemic. So in the US, 143 00:08:02,836 --> 00:08:05,196 Speaker 1: you know, the pandemic has led a lot of hospital 144 00:08:05,196 --> 00:08:09,036 Speaker 1: systems to suddenly focus on, Hey, how do we decent 145 00:08:09,116 --> 00:08:11,716 Speaker 1: centralized care. How do we treat patients closer where they live, 146 00:08:11,876 --> 00:08:14,396 Speaker 1: extend the reach of the hospital system directly into the home. 147 00:08:14,796 --> 00:08:16,996 Speaker 1: And they look at what Rwanda and Gone are doing 148 00:08:17,036 --> 00:08:20,316 Speaker 1: and say, that's a good answer. So this is, for example, 149 00:08:20,316 --> 00:08:22,636 Speaker 1: the reason that we launched with Navant Healthcare in North 150 00:08:22,636 --> 00:08:28,436 Speaker 1: Carolina in the middle of last year. So North Carolina 151 00:08:28,476 --> 00:08:31,596 Speaker 1: is learning from Rwanda. Is that how you would characterize it, 152 00:08:33,356 --> 00:08:36,636 Speaker 1: This trend of big hospital systems that used to rely 153 00:08:36,756 --> 00:08:40,756 Speaker 1: on patients coming into the hospital to receive care. Patients 154 00:08:40,916 --> 00:08:44,076 Speaker 1: hate that. The most vulnerable populations are the ones that 155 00:08:44,076 --> 00:08:46,756 Speaker 1: are least likely to be able to even do that, 156 00:08:46,836 --> 00:08:48,596 Speaker 1: to take time off work or have a car to 157 00:08:48,876 --> 00:08:51,396 Speaker 1: get to that hospital in a city, and it's the 158 00:08:51,436 --> 00:08:54,396 Speaker 1: most expensive way of treating a patient. So as we 159 00:08:54,436 --> 00:08:57,676 Speaker 1: actually start paying for quality of care and outcomes rather 160 00:08:57,716 --> 00:09:02,116 Speaker 1: than paying for procedures, health systems become incentivized to treat 161 00:09:02,156 --> 00:09:04,076 Speaker 1: patients closer where they live. If you can treat them 162 00:09:04,076 --> 00:09:06,116 Speaker 1: at a primary care facility. That's amazing. If you can 163 00:09:06,156 --> 00:09:08,996 Speaker 1: send a home healthcare nurse directly to their home, or 164 00:09:09,236 --> 00:09:10,916 Speaker 1: you can just you know, have them talk to a 165 00:09:10,956 --> 00:09:14,956 Speaker 1: doctor via telepresence. In many ways, the logistics service, the 166 00:09:15,036 --> 00:09:17,316 Speaker 1: kind of instant delivery the zipline provides, is just the 167 00:09:17,316 --> 00:09:20,476 Speaker 1: other half of telepresence. I do have to say, I 168 00:09:20,516 --> 00:09:24,516 Speaker 1: remember first hearing the expression telemedicine being used widely at 169 00:09:24,516 --> 00:09:26,876 Speaker 1: the beginning of the pandemic, and it sounded so exciting 170 00:09:27,636 --> 00:09:29,596 Speaker 1: until I realized that it really, most of the time 171 00:09:29,676 --> 00:09:32,836 Speaker 1: meant talking to the doctor on the phone, which seemed 172 00:09:32,876 --> 00:09:36,596 Speaker 1: to seem much less exciting that fancy. It's like pretty 173 00:09:37,396 --> 00:09:39,636 Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy actually that that was going to 174 00:09:39,716 --> 00:09:42,596 Speaker 1: you know that that has taken so long. Is it 175 00:09:42,636 --> 00:09:46,036 Speaker 1: possible that this is working partly because there's so few 176 00:09:46,076 --> 00:09:48,716 Speaker 1: other drones being used this way. I mean, drones are 177 00:09:48,796 --> 00:09:52,276 Speaker 1: used for photography, and they're used for they you know, 178 00:09:52,276 --> 00:09:54,236 Speaker 1: they have a military function, but they haven't really been 179 00:09:54,316 --> 00:09:57,876 Speaker 1: used as a delivery service before. I mean, can you 180 00:09:57,876 --> 00:10:00,516 Speaker 1: imagine us running into trouble if there were lots of 181 00:10:00,556 --> 00:10:02,836 Speaker 1: people doing this or do you think it will? It's 182 00:10:02,876 --> 00:10:05,396 Speaker 1: something that we're all just going to get used to 183 00:10:05,436 --> 00:10:09,316 Speaker 1: over time. People often ask about that. I I think 184 00:10:09,356 --> 00:10:11,596 Speaker 1: people have this sense that like, oh my god, the 185 00:10:11,596 --> 00:10:14,196 Speaker 1: sky is going to be darkened by drones, and I 186 00:10:14,236 --> 00:10:17,316 Speaker 1: actually think, just from a physics perspective, probably people's intuition 187 00:10:17,396 --> 00:10:19,396 Speaker 1: is a little bit off about how big the sky is. 188 00:10:19,916 --> 00:10:22,796 Speaker 1: You know, when we're flying, we fly below the commercial 189 00:10:22,836 --> 00:10:26,716 Speaker 1: aviation floor, but well above where you can hear the 190 00:10:26,796 --> 00:10:29,076 Speaker 1: vehicle or even really distinguish the vehicle from a bird. 191 00:10:30,396 --> 00:10:32,636 Speaker 1: It's very hard to see an aircraft when it's flying 192 00:10:32,676 --> 00:10:34,916 Speaker 1: by it four hundred feet which is our cruise altitude, 193 00:10:35,836 --> 00:10:38,436 Speaker 1: and the sky the sky is just really really large. 194 00:10:38,876 --> 00:10:41,076 Speaker 1: That leads obviously to the next question, which is what 195 00:10:41,116 --> 00:10:44,196 Speaker 1: do these drones look like? How big are they? How 196 00:10:44,236 --> 00:10:47,556 Speaker 1: fast do they fly? And how do they operate? I 197 00:10:47,596 --> 00:10:50,996 Speaker 1: read somewhere that the drones use don't actually stop. It's 198 00:10:51,036 --> 00:10:53,316 Speaker 1: not like they land and deliver something and then take 199 00:10:53,316 --> 00:10:57,396 Speaker 1: off again. They drop the goods. I mean almost like parachuters. 200 00:10:57,476 --> 00:11:00,476 Speaker 1: Can you describe what that looks like. They weigh about 201 00:11:00,556 --> 00:11:05,076 Speaker 1: forty pounds each and they launch and land only at 202 00:11:05,076 --> 00:11:08,156 Speaker 1: our distribution centers. So this means that when we receive 203 00:11:08,196 --> 00:11:11,356 Speaker 1: an order. That order will come via SMS or via 204 00:11:11,396 --> 00:11:14,116 Speaker 1: WhatsApp or via a phone call to our fulfillment center. 205 00:11:14,596 --> 00:11:17,516 Speaker 1: We have trained pharmacists who can take a product, for example, 206 00:11:17,596 --> 00:11:20,516 Speaker 1: say two units of blood loaded into a package. That 207 00:11:20,636 --> 00:11:23,676 Speaker 1: package is loaded into the airplane. The airplane is set 208 00:11:23,716 --> 00:11:27,156 Speaker 1: onto a launcher, and once the flight computer has booted 209 00:11:27,236 --> 00:11:30,276 Speaker 1: up and is ready to fly the aircraft, we launched 210 00:11:30,316 --> 00:11:33,436 Speaker 1: the aircraft. It actually accelerates from zero to about eighty 211 00:11:33,516 --> 00:11:35,476 Speaker 1: kilometers an hour and about a third of a second, 212 00:11:35,516 --> 00:11:37,916 Speaker 1: so really really fast. It will fly out to the 213 00:11:37,996 --> 00:11:41,676 Speaker 1: GPS coordinates of the hospital or primary care facility that 214 00:11:41,716 --> 00:11:44,556 Speaker 1: placed the order. And then when we deliver, we actually 215 00:11:44,556 --> 00:11:47,156 Speaker 1: descend from our cruise altitude of about four hundred feet 216 00:11:47,156 --> 00:11:50,116 Speaker 1: to somewhere between thirty and six feet, and we deliver 217 00:11:50,236 --> 00:11:52,916 Speaker 1: into a mailbox, which is really just a made up 218 00:11:52,956 --> 00:11:55,156 Speaker 1: rectangle on the ground. It's the size of a couple 219 00:11:55,236 --> 00:11:57,756 Speaker 1: parking spaces. So as long as the primary care facility 220 00:11:57,836 --> 00:12:02,116 Speaker 1: or hospital has a couple parking spaces, whether that's actual 221 00:12:02,116 --> 00:12:05,796 Speaker 1: parking spaces or a little grassy patch or even you know, 222 00:12:05,876 --> 00:12:08,116 Speaker 1: for example, in the hospital in North Carolina, we deliver 223 00:12:08,156 --> 00:12:11,516 Speaker 1: onto the rooftop of one of our hospitals. They can 224 00:12:11,556 --> 00:12:13,236 Speaker 1: kind of set up their mailbox wherever they like, and 225 00:12:13,276 --> 00:12:15,036 Speaker 1: then they know that the product is always going to 226 00:12:15,076 --> 00:12:17,316 Speaker 1: be delivered into that mailbox. We use a really simple 227 00:12:17,356 --> 00:12:19,476 Speaker 1: paper parachute attached to the package to make sure that 228 00:12:19,516 --> 00:12:23,276 Speaker 1: the package comes gently to the ground, and that enables 229 00:12:23,356 --> 00:12:26,316 Speaker 1: us to basically provide this autonomous service without ever having 230 00:12:26,436 --> 00:12:30,036 Speaker 1: untrained humans come close to the vehicles. And does it 231 00:12:30,116 --> 00:12:33,116 Speaker 1: ever fail well, it plane operates in the real worhold. 232 00:12:33,116 --> 00:12:35,596 Speaker 1: And what one thing I've learned is like nothing is 233 00:12:35,596 --> 00:12:38,596 Speaker 1: a one hundred percent in the real world. So certainly, 234 00:12:38,636 --> 00:12:41,076 Speaker 1: like you, especially in the early days of the service, 235 00:12:41,116 --> 00:12:43,756 Speaker 1: we had certain instances where the packaging land quite in 236 00:12:43,756 --> 00:12:46,996 Speaker 1: the mailbox. We've had instances where the plane will encounter 237 00:12:47,076 --> 00:12:50,076 Speaker 1: emission failure and have to turn around and come home, 238 00:12:50,156 --> 00:12:52,036 Speaker 1: and then you know, we'll use another plane to do 239 00:12:52,076 --> 00:12:55,636 Speaker 1: that delivery maybe fifteen minutes later. All logistics kind of 240 00:12:55,636 --> 00:12:58,316 Speaker 1: operates on percentages, and that things one hundred percent. We 241 00:12:58,356 --> 00:13:02,756 Speaker 1: guaranteed our customer ninety six percent service uptime, and we've 242 00:13:02,796 --> 00:13:05,636 Speaker 1: actually achieved something like ninety nine percent service uptime, so 243 00:13:05,796 --> 00:13:09,916 Speaker 1: way higher than any kind of traditional logistics. You know, 244 00:13:09,996 --> 00:13:15,236 Speaker 1: these kinds of vehicles can operate more reliably than motorcycles 245 00:13:15,236 --> 00:13:17,716 Speaker 1: and cars, and they can operate in kinds of weather 246 00:13:17,836 --> 00:13:21,076 Speaker 1: and conditions that actually traditional logistic systems don't operate in 247 00:13:21,196 --> 00:13:23,396 Speaker 1: at all, and that is one of the main value 248 00:13:23,396 --> 00:13:26,796 Speaker 1: propositions of this kind of technology. In the US, there's 249 00:13:27,356 --> 00:13:30,916 Speaker 1: I'm afraid drones have a negative connotation. They don't make 250 00:13:30,956 --> 00:13:34,356 Speaker 1: people think of, you know, life saving technology. They make 251 00:13:34,396 --> 00:13:37,476 Speaker 1: people think of military strikes. Has that been a problem 252 00:13:37,516 --> 00:13:41,036 Speaker 1: for you when while moving these ideas to North Carolina 253 00:13:41,076 --> 00:13:43,156 Speaker 1: and proposing their use in other places? Do you find 254 00:13:43,196 --> 00:13:46,436 Speaker 1: Americans are more resistant to the use of drones and delivery? 255 00:13:46,956 --> 00:13:48,956 Speaker 1: That's a complicated question. I mean, you know, if you 256 00:13:48,996 --> 00:13:51,396 Speaker 1: think drones have a bad connotation in the US, just 257 00:13:51,476 --> 00:13:54,036 Speaker 1: imagine where they've actually been used by the US government 258 00:13:54,076 --> 00:13:56,716 Speaker 1: to kill people. Like those countries have an even more 259 00:13:56,716 --> 00:14:00,156 Speaker 1: negative connotation. But yeah, absolutely, I think that this general 260 00:14:00,156 --> 00:14:03,356 Speaker 1: technology has been thought of as technology that kills people 261 00:14:03,636 --> 00:14:06,156 Speaker 1: rather than technology that saves people's lives, and that is 262 00:14:06,236 --> 00:14:08,596 Speaker 1: part of the narrative that we are trying to rewrite. 263 00:14:08,876 --> 00:14:12,396 Speaker 1: The reality is that autonomous systems of this kind can 264 00:14:12,436 --> 00:14:17,716 Speaker 1: have a huge impact in equalizing access, building logistics systems 265 00:14:17,716 --> 00:14:21,676 Speaker 1: that serves all humans equally and ensuring that where you 266 00:14:21,756 --> 00:14:25,316 Speaker 1: live does not determine whether you live. It's just going 267 00:14:25,396 --> 00:14:27,836 Speaker 1: to take time for people to see that other half 268 00:14:27,836 --> 00:14:31,276 Speaker 1: of the coin. And you know, in Rwanda and Ghana today, 269 00:14:32,316 --> 00:14:36,356 Speaker 1: the community acceptance for this national service is through the 270 00:14:36,476 --> 00:14:39,796 Speaker 1: roof because most people have a cousin or a family 271 00:14:39,796 --> 00:14:42,556 Speaker 1: member or a friend who has received a product and 272 00:14:42,636 --> 00:14:46,756 Speaker 1: is perhaps even alive because this service is available and 273 00:14:46,796 --> 00:14:48,396 Speaker 1: it's pretty simple. And by the way, they don't call 274 00:14:48,396 --> 00:14:52,436 Speaker 1: them drones. They just call them sky ambulances. Sky ambulance 275 00:14:52,516 --> 00:14:55,956 Speaker 1: sounds a lot nicer than drone act, but it's also 276 00:14:55,996 --> 00:14:58,276 Speaker 1: more specific to what it's actually doing. I think we 277 00:14:58,316 --> 00:15:01,436 Speaker 1: actually tend to call things. There's a joke among roboticists 278 00:15:01,516 --> 00:15:04,836 Speaker 1: that there are no useful robots because once something is useful, 279 00:15:04,956 --> 00:15:07,036 Speaker 1: you just call it the thing that it does, rather 280 00:15:07,076 --> 00:15:09,476 Speaker 1: than a robot. So for example, like a dish washer 281 00:15:09,636 --> 00:15:12,276 Speaker 1: is a dishwasher or not, like you know, a robot 282 00:15:12,276 --> 00:15:14,316 Speaker 1: that watches your dishes, And I think the same is true. 283 00:15:14,396 --> 00:15:17,276 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, we don't really talk about drones. And 284 00:15:17,316 --> 00:15:19,196 Speaker 1: in fact, I think one really important thing to understand 285 00:15:19,196 --> 00:15:21,396 Speaker 1: about zip line is that none of our customers care 286 00:15:21,396 --> 00:15:24,436 Speaker 1: about drones. All they care about is does something go 287 00:15:24,556 --> 00:15:26,596 Speaker 1: from point A to point the fast enough to save 288 00:15:26,636 --> 00:15:32,036 Speaker 1: someone's life. Recently, you've done a deal with Walmart. Have 289 00:15:32,116 --> 00:15:35,476 Speaker 1: you created a partnership with Walmart? Tell me about that? 290 00:15:35,556 --> 00:15:37,876 Speaker 1: Is that do you have the idea of expanding this 291 00:15:37,956 --> 00:15:42,196 Speaker 1: beyond medical supplies to other things? Is that The purpose 292 00:15:42,236 --> 00:15:44,676 Speaker 1: of it. What we're doing with Walmart right now is 293 00:15:44,836 --> 00:15:48,356 Speaker 1: Walmart actually operates, you know, pharmacies that are closer to 294 00:15:48,396 --> 00:15:50,916 Speaker 1: a lot of the most rural, vulnerable populations in the 295 00:15:51,036 --> 00:15:54,276 Speaker 1: US of any company in the country. And so what 296 00:15:54,316 --> 00:15:57,396 Speaker 1: we're focused on doing with Walmart is extending access to 297 00:15:57,676 --> 00:16:00,836 Speaker 1: their pharmacy as well as specific health and wellness products 298 00:16:00,836 --> 00:16:03,636 Speaker 1: directly to the home, so that people, if they need something, 299 00:16:03,756 --> 00:16:06,236 Speaker 1: they can order it and get it delivered instantly, as 300 00:16:06,236 --> 00:16:08,836 Speaker 1: opposed to have to go to a pharmacy, especially in 301 00:16:08,836 --> 00:16:11,356 Speaker 1: the time of a pandemic. Can you deliver in the 302 00:16:11,396 --> 00:16:14,196 Speaker 1: same way to somebody's house, I mean, to you know, 303 00:16:14,716 --> 00:16:17,356 Speaker 1: letting a little parachute float down into their front yard. 304 00:16:17,396 --> 00:16:19,396 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a good question and actually something that 305 00:16:19,436 --> 00:16:21,796 Speaker 1: we'll have you know, we'll be making some announcements on 306 00:16:21,836 --> 00:16:25,036 Speaker 1: over the coming year. Our goal is to serve every 307 00:16:25,036 --> 00:16:28,836 Speaker 1: single GPS coordinates, every single home in all the countries 308 00:16:28,836 --> 00:16:32,116 Speaker 1: where we operate. You know, today we can serve some 309 00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:33,876 Speaker 1: of them, not all of them, but that percentage of 310 00:16:33,956 --> 00:16:36,636 Speaker 1: homes that we serve will increase over time. Is there 311 00:16:36,676 --> 00:16:42,116 Speaker 1: an issue in your business in drone delivery of privacy 312 00:16:42,796 --> 00:16:46,076 Speaker 1: in the way there was with telemedicine that things that 313 00:16:46,236 --> 00:16:48,876 Speaker 1: used to be one to one or things that you know, 314 00:16:48,916 --> 00:16:52,116 Speaker 1: conversations that used to be absolutely privileged are now recorded 315 00:16:52,156 --> 00:16:55,996 Speaker 1: somewhere or available to other people. Have you run into 316 00:16:56,036 --> 00:16:58,956 Speaker 1: that as a barrier in what you do as well? 317 00:16:59,756 --> 00:17:03,476 Speaker 1: Luckily on the privacy front, we really just fit in 318 00:17:03,596 --> 00:17:06,156 Speaker 1: the same way that other logistics systems would fit in. 319 00:17:06,276 --> 00:17:09,236 Speaker 1: We're certified in the same way that you know, our 320 00:17:09,356 --> 00:17:11,996 Speaker 1: motorcycle or a courier service that was delivering something quickly 321 00:17:11,996 --> 00:17:14,876 Speaker 1: would be certified. That's actually not something that is like 322 00:17:15,596 --> 00:17:19,836 Speaker 1: new or requires us to to you know, reinvent the 323 00:17:19,836 --> 00:17:23,596 Speaker 1: wheel keller. Can you remember the first time you realized 324 00:17:23,716 --> 00:17:27,156 Speaker 1: that this system was going to work when in real 325 00:17:27,236 --> 00:17:30,756 Speaker 1: life a drone took off and it delivered a medical 326 00:17:30,796 --> 00:17:33,036 Speaker 1: product to someone who needed it. Can you can you 327 00:17:33,236 --> 00:17:38,516 Speaker 1: remember that? That was, Like I certain experiences are probably 328 00:17:38,556 --> 00:17:42,276 Speaker 1: indelibly you know, marked on your on your brain, and 329 00:17:42,516 --> 00:17:44,436 Speaker 1: that's certainly one of them. I mean, I think the 330 00:17:44,596 --> 00:17:46,996 Speaker 1: important context is when we were starting to build zip line, 331 00:17:47,716 --> 00:17:50,516 Speaker 1: so many experts in global public health told us that 332 00:17:50,556 --> 00:17:52,316 Speaker 1: this was a stupid idea and that it was never 333 00:17:52,356 --> 00:17:55,796 Speaker 1: going to work. And it was in fact the governments. 334 00:17:55,796 --> 00:17:58,116 Speaker 1: It was the ministers of health who kind of helped 335 00:17:58,156 --> 00:17:59,876 Speaker 1: change our mind and say like no, no, no, like 336 00:17:59,916 --> 00:18:02,276 Speaker 1: this will work, Like let's focus, let's you know, let's 337 00:18:02,516 --> 00:18:04,996 Speaker 1: let's go see if we can deliver, for example, just blood, 338 00:18:05,036 --> 00:18:08,596 Speaker 1: which is what we started doing in Rwanda. And I remember, 339 00:18:08,636 --> 00:18:11,436 Speaker 1: you know, when we actually launched, the President of Rwanda came. 340 00:18:11,876 --> 00:18:14,156 Speaker 1: He was one of the early champions for us getting 341 00:18:14,156 --> 00:18:17,356 Speaker 1: started there. He launched the first aircraft. It went made 342 00:18:17,356 --> 00:18:19,916 Speaker 1: a delivery, and I remember as we were sitting waiting 343 00:18:19,956 --> 00:18:22,036 Speaker 1: for the plane to come back and land at the 344 00:18:22,036 --> 00:18:25,636 Speaker 1: distribution center, like a hundred kids had gathered on the fence. 345 00:18:25,676 --> 00:18:28,596 Speaker 1: We have a fence around our distribution centers, and there 346 00:18:28,636 --> 00:18:30,236 Speaker 1: were one hundred kids on the fence kind of like 347 00:18:30,316 --> 00:18:32,356 Speaker 1: looking in waiting with us to watch this plane coming 348 00:18:32,356 --> 00:18:34,356 Speaker 1: inland and he just casually pointed at all of them 349 00:18:34,356 --> 00:18:37,276 Speaker 1: and he said, those are the future engineers of Rwanda, 350 00:18:37,556 --> 00:18:39,836 Speaker 1: And it really made me realize that this is, you know, 351 00:18:39,916 --> 00:18:42,196 Speaker 1: in some ways, this is bigger than healthcare. This is 352 00:18:42,996 --> 00:18:45,916 Speaker 1: this is building a world where people who have been 353 00:18:46,236 --> 00:18:49,516 Speaker 1: left behind by traditional economies, left behind by traditional kinds 354 00:18:49,516 --> 00:18:51,916 Speaker 1: of logistics systems, are actually going to have a chance 355 00:18:51,956 --> 00:18:54,196 Speaker 1: to lead the world. And by the way, you know, 356 00:18:54,276 --> 00:18:57,676 Speaker 1: these kinds of jobs, these kinds of startups and new 357 00:18:57,716 --> 00:19:02,396 Speaker 1: ideas and new innovations are going to create jobs and opportunities, 358 00:19:02,876 --> 00:19:05,116 Speaker 1: and we've found I mean, I think the most important 359 00:19:05,156 --> 00:19:08,676 Speaker 1: thing about zip line to understand is that the superheroes 360 00:19:08,676 --> 00:19:11,796 Speaker 1: behind this story are the flight engineers and flight operators 361 00:19:11,836 --> 00:19:14,436 Speaker 1: who operate all of our distribution centers across the world, 362 00:19:14,596 --> 00:19:17,516 Speaker 1: and those teams are one hundred percent local. What are 363 00:19:17,556 --> 00:19:20,516 Speaker 1: a few things that listeners could do to help you 364 00:19:20,636 --> 00:19:24,356 Speaker 1: solve this problem, in other words, to encourage medical innovation 365 00:19:25,076 --> 00:19:28,676 Speaker 1: to bring these kinds of delivery systems to their own communities. 366 00:19:29,516 --> 00:19:33,036 Speaker 1: What do you suggest that people do You know, that's 367 00:19:33,076 --> 00:19:36,996 Speaker 1: an awesome question and one that I rarely get. In fact, 368 00:19:36,996 --> 00:19:38,556 Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever had someone asked that. 369 00:19:40,156 --> 00:19:43,196 Speaker 1: One is that I do think people should demand more 370 00:19:43,316 --> 00:19:46,756 Speaker 1: from their healthcare systems. Healthcare systems that really survive and 371 00:19:46,756 --> 00:19:48,196 Speaker 1: thrive are going to have to figure out how to 372 00:19:48,236 --> 00:19:51,476 Speaker 1: provide care in a convenient, cost effective way closer to 373 00:19:51,516 --> 00:19:54,676 Speaker 1: where patients live. You know. Another thing is that we're 374 00:19:54,716 --> 00:19:57,196 Speaker 1: a global company, and we're really proud of what we 375 00:19:57,236 --> 00:19:59,316 Speaker 1: get to do outside the US. But as a US Citi, 376 00:19:59,316 --> 00:20:00,756 Speaker 1: isn't it If I were to speak for a second, 377 00:20:00,916 --> 00:20:03,996 Speaker 1: I would say, it is so so important that we 378 00:20:04,116 --> 00:20:07,836 Speaker 1: not allow ourselves to fall behind in pre new areas 379 00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:11,596 Speaker 1: of technology. Reason that we live in the richest country 380 00:20:11,636 --> 00:20:14,876 Speaker 1: today is that our grandparents did an amazing job of 381 00:20:14,916 --> 00:20:17,636 Speaker 1: moving really quickly on things like cars and airplanes and 382 00:20:17,676 --> 00:20:21,596 Speaker 1: satellites in the space race, you know. And the reality 383 00:20:21,756 --> 00:20:24,196 Speaker 1: is that there are a lot of industries that are 384 00:20:24,196 --> 00:20:27,036 Speaker 1: those corollaries today, but I think the US is not 385 00:20:27,396 --> 00:20:30,236 Speaker 1: pursuing them as aggressively, and in many cases we're allowing 386 00:20:30,236 --> 00:20:33,836 Speaker 1: regulation to actually hinder the adoption of that technology in 387 00:20:33,836 --> 00:20:36,796 Speaker 1: the US, and other countries are not wasting time. China, 388 00:20:36,876 --> 00:20:39,836 Speaker 1: for example, is moving really really quickly when it comes 389 00:20:39,836 --> 00:20:44,236 Speaker 1: to things like nuclear fusion and quantum computing and drone delivery. 390 00:20:44,436 --> 00:20:46,316 Speaker 1: We have to realize that if we don't innovate other 391 00:20:46,356 --> 00:20:49,996 Speaker 1: as well, and we won't necessarily lead the world forever. 392 00:20:51,196 --> 00:20:55,076 Speaker 1: Are there books or articles that you've read, other things 393 00:20:55,076 --> 00:20:57,596 Speaker 1: to read or watch that you can suggest for people 394 00:20:57,636 --> 00:20:59,956 Speaker 1: who are who are interested in pursuing this subject further. 395 00:21:01,116 --> 00:21:03,556 Speaker 1: You know, drone delivery is a little trickier because it's 396 00:21:03,836 --> 00:21:05,796 Speaker 1: it's just so nascent that you know, I don't think 397 00:21:05,796 --> 00:21:09,196 Speaker 1: the books have been really written yet, but I can say, 398 00:21:09,196 --> 00:21:11,556 Speaker 1: you know, this broader trend that I'm describing of really 399 00:21:11,636 --> 00:21:14,996 Speaker 1: understanding the context of where growth is happening in the world. 400 00:21:15,676 --> 00:21:20,196 Speaker 1: I know two books that I deeply love. Factfulness by 401 00:21:20,436 --> 00:21:23,556 Speaker 1: Hans and Ola Rosaling is an amazing book that just 402 00:21:23,636 --> 00:21:25,516 Speaker 1: kind of explores like, what are the basic facts of 403 00:21:25,596 --> 00:21:27,316 Speaker 1: the world we live in and where growth is occurring 404 00:21:27,316 --> 00:21:30,076 Speaker 1: and where people live and what like a more equal 405 00:21:30,116 --> 00:21:33,716 Speaker 1: future would look like. And then Enlightenment Now by Stephen 406 00:21:33,796 --> 00:21:36,956 Speaker 1: Pinker is just I think one of the most important 407 00:21:36,996 --> 00:21:39,036 Speaker 1: books probably for every human on earth to read and 408 00:21:39,036 --> 00:21:40,876 Speaker 1: definitely speaks to a lot of these trends I'm talking 409 00:21:40,916 --> 00:21:44,356 Speaker 1: about about, like what would a hopeful future look like 410 00:21:44,356 --> 00:21:46,916 Speaker 1: where humanity is becoming more equal over time rather than 411 00:21:47,556 --> 00:21:52,596 Speaker 1: the opposite. Kelo Renado is the CEO and founder of 412 00:21:52,676 --> 00:21:56,436 Speaker 1: zip Line International. To learn more about drone delivery and 413 00:21:56,476 --> 00:21:59,036 Speaker 1: remote medical access, please check out the links in our 414 00:21:59,076 --> 00:22:03,436 Speaker 1: show notes. Salvabill. Senior producer is Jocelyn Frank. Research and 415 00:22:03,476 --> 00:22:07,676 Speaker 1: booking by Lisa Donne. Catherine Girardo is our managing producer. 416 00:22:07,956 --> 00:22:12,036 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Mia Lobell. Solvable is a production 417 00:22:12,076 --> 00:22:15,236 Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you like the show, please remember 418 00:22:15,236 --> 00:22:17,796 Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review it. It really helps us 419 00:22:17,796 --> 00:22:20,916 Speaker 1: get the word out. You can find Pushkin podcasts wherever 420 00:22:20,956 --> 00:22:24,956 Speaker 1: you listen, including on the iHeartRadio app and Apple Podcasts. 421 00:22:25,556 --> 00:22:26,836 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Weisberg.