WEBVTT - A Clown By Any Other Name (with Eve L. Ewing) 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.840 Got Milk campaign totally created by the Dairy Farmers Association 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:13.000 of America. Milk questionable in its health benefits? Actually right, 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:19.560 I don't even know if it's questionable at this murder 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.680 every other way. Yeah, it's really not good for you. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.599 And like most of us are lactose intolerant, you know, 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.280 Like if you look back at those ads, those ads 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.440 are blends because they have professional athletes then and they're like, oh, 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.240 after I get my fam you ain't working out and 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:39.479 breaking a class of girl. That is disgusting that It 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:46.160 was literally the Gatorade commercials with not you a whole lot. 0:00:46.320 --> 0:01:09.160 Come on now, the money man turning stuff. You can't 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:15.160 tell me. Boom boom, boom boom. There it is there, 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:17.959 it is there. It is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:22.720 another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:26.200 where we unpacked we dive deep into the world of 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.800 black conspiracy theories. Gonna Be finally worked to prove that 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.240 Mr T did not cut his hair into that old hag. 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.120 The nigga just couldn't grow hair between his sideburns and 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.839 that landing strip in the middle. He had a rare 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.800 form of alopecia. It's called almost pecia, and the man 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.319 has been crying out for help all these years. Help 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:51.320 Mr t everyone, please, I'm your host, length and Kerman. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:55.200 I'm delighted to be here. I'm doing well. I'm pretty 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.760 much just eating snacks and enjoying myself while the world tarns. 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:01.360 It's it's the way I plan to live. I'm just 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.360 gonna die in the apocalypse. Real silly. That's my pa. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.840 My guest today. She's wonderful. I imagine she's gonna do 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.760 a lot of cool things before the apocalypse comes, much 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.640 more substantial than eating snacks and just letting things burn 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.880 around her. She's amazing. She's a poet, she's a writer. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.080 She's an important thinker out in the world. You know 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.359 her from her book Electric Arches. You know her from 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.840 her work on Iron Her she is writing cool last 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.680 comic books. She's amazing. Please give it up from my guest, 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:38.640 Miss Eve. You is Yes, we're excited. You got on 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.440 a goosebump shirt and I think that's very fitting to 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.839 the conspiracy theory that you sort of brought to us. 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:49.760 That I think is really important that it hit home. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:51.920 It hit home for me in a way of sweet 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.480 nostalgia that that made me excited. You said, my mama 0:02:55.560 --> 0:03:05.840 told me the legend of Owe me the Clown. Yes, yes, 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.160 can I tell you all about it? Okay, So, first 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:11.680 of all, I try to not be on a lot 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.560 of podcasts because everybody has a podcast. Every single week, 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.359 people emailed me and ask me to be in their podcast. 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.560 I'm so honored and grateful that people want me on 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.519 their podcast. But if I said yes to all the podcasts, 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.880 I wouldn't I would literally do nothing else. So I 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.359 have had like a podcast moratorium for a long time now. 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.399 But when your producers reached out to me, I said, okay, 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.280 number one is lengths. I'm a big fan. But more importantly, 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.640 this is time for me to speak my truth because 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.400 I have been trying. I have been trying for years 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.200 to write about this, and nobody wants to hear me. 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.480 Nobody wants to let me write about it. Various publications 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.360 have reached out and said, oh, if you have any ideas, 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.000 I'm like, I want to write about this time and 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.000 they're like, oh, I don't know. They're you know, they're 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:53.800 like from a living color and I'm like no, it's 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.240 so much deeper than that, and so I was like, 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:58.040 you know, Lengths and you and I are pretty much 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.000 the same age. You know, we're from the same place. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.720 And so I was like, Langston is going to be 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.560 here for me to speak the truth to the people 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:07.760 finding about Homie the Clown, And I knew that you 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.280 would get it, So I'm here to expose the real 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.160 real I'm so happy you're doing that. We often get 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.279 these conspiracy theories that are very like big and sort 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:21.400 of like widespread, and this is one that's so Chicago 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:26.960 specific and local. It's it's the moving on of conspiracy theories. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.640 I can't wait, So please tell the people what they 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.240 need to know about Homie the Clown. All right, I'm 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.280 gonna lay it on you, okay. So, first of all, 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.160 when people hear Holming the Clown right away, you may 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.640 be thinking of the iconic character from in Living Color, 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.000 and so people are like, yeah, yeah, Holmi the Clown. 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.840 But when we were kids, when we were coming up, 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.919 we were told I'm saying we I'm assuming without you 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.080 even confirming that you were also included in this. Yes, yes, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:05:00.480 this was Chicago wide, yes fact, and specifically it's Chicago 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.040 wide Black children and I think I think like children 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.160 of color, because I've also heard this from like Mexican 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:09.800 Puerto Rican homies, like kids of our vintage. We're told 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.640 when we were kids, you need to watch out for 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.719 a white van that is driving around Chicago and Homie 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.240 the clown is in it and he's gonna kidnap you. 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.640 And there's variations on this theme, so people would say, 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.160 always a white van, there's a white man driving around. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.360 And Homie the clown was not Homie from the TV 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.120 show Who We All Knew and Love. It was someone 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.520 who had appropriated Homie's name and was using it to 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.760 do nefarious deeds because a dude dress as a clown 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.680 and Austin times also part of this would be that 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.320 he had like a sock or a bag full of 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.880 rocks or nickels, right, so he had like a sock 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.240 of of rocks and he hits you on the head 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.000 and he was going to take you away and kidnap you. 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:58.400 And and and if I may murder and or molescue, 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:01.960 you're not coming back. No, you're done, You're dune. It's 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.640 over for you. And furthermore, you know, obviously in the 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.320 skit in in the sketch on a living color. That 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.760 homie also hits people on the head and says, Homie, 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.240 don't play that, which is his iconic line. But this 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.160 homie is bad, so it's like it's like a tethered 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:20.279 like underworld version of the other homie is good and funny. 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.239 This homie is bad and scary. Right, this homie keeps 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.159 little children awake at night, whereas the other one. It 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.920 kind of becomes a bit that you do at school, like, ha, 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:33.719 we remember, we all saw that thing. And also the 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:38.120 this knowledge comes to me despite the name of the podcast, 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.920 this knowledge always came to me from older kids, right, 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.880 and very very serious, like not older kids trying to 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.520 scare you, but like older kids really trying to look 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.599 out for you, right, and they want you to they 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.440 really want you to not to not get got by Homie. 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:57.279 And so then fast forward, I became a Chicaogo public 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.279 school teacher. And I know you're also a former Edge cater. 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:02.240 And when I was in Chicago, but you were in 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.080 high school. So I taught at a school that was 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.240 fourth grade through eighth grade, and I used to have 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.480 playground duty and taught in the school is a school 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.840 on the South side. You know, I taught middle school, 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:14.840 but the school went down as low as fourth grade, 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:16.800 and I had playground duty, you know, once a week 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.760 or whatever. And playground duty you stand around and you 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.760 talk to the kids that, um, they're not social. I'm 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:24.480 trying to nice the kids, and these kids that I 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:29.720 was right, So there, I'm into that because I'm also 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:31.800 a dork. And so it would be the kids that like, 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.080 they're not really trying to play basketball, and so they're 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.680 kind of like hanging around you because to talk to you. 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:38.840 And so I used to talk to kids in the 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.160 morning and these kids I overheard them saying, you know, Missy, 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.920 did you know there's a white van going around and 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.720 there is a clown that is And this blew me 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.200 because you know, this is like years and years later, 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:56.720 and Homie was never talked about in like the media 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:58.920 and except for there's one exception which I think will 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.440 probably get into and to assume there's a notable exception here, 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.120 I too, am a researcher, so you know I have 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:09.240 like the researcher. You're giving me far more credit than 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.680 well that's but for the most part, this isn't the 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:18.280 thing that most people know about right, And sure, my theory, 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.960 my which is real, some might call conspiratorial. But I 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.720 think that there is something about Homie that only kids 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:30.880 can like see him or access this knowledge. There's something 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.120 about the culture. There's a there's a children's because Okay, 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.439 as black people, we know that, like like all people, 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.600 we have folklore and we have culture, right, so we 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.520 have things that your parents tell you, your grandparents tell you, 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.959 and it gets passed from generation to generations. But people 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.960 don't talk about Homie in adulthood. So what I don't 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:51.360 understand is how the transmission would happen between kids in 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:55.880 the early nineties and kids in the twenties. Right, how 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.520 does that happen? You're giving me a lot to unpack here, 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.760 and yeah, I list and I think about it. I'm excited. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.880 Let's start at the base of what you just premised. 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.280 You're suggesting that there is a almost like mythical kind 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.200 of quality to Homie. That this is if he is 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.400 in fact a real sort of like threat. It is 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:20.079 not just a threat of a weird dude with a van, 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.240 but has more of an it kind of quality where 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.200 it's like kids are at threat and kids can see 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.640 it better than adults, kids and only kids, that there's 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.080 something that happens to you when you pass into adulthood 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.120 that you can't see Homie anymore. And if you think 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:42.280 about it, Bill, am I going to solve my personal problem? Right? Well, 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:44.400 I'm thinking about it a little bit like an evil 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.360 version of like Peter Pan and the Lost Boys type 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.319 of situation, right, Like there's something where you get too 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.640 old and you can no longer access Homie, like you 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.840 can't see him anymore. And maybe Homie was never evil, 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.960 Maybe he was only I don't know he maybe there's 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.160 something about his relationship to kids that we can't understand 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.920 as an adult, But I'm very fascinated with him. You're 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.400 you're getting to something that I think is really interesting 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:14.840 because they're uh, and I don't this feels pretty understood. 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:19.959 But there's no empirical evidence that Homie ever took a kid, correct, 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.200 Like none of us know a kid that got took 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:27.040 by the clown, But everybody knows a kid whose cousin 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.720 wrote to school of us with somebody who used to 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.960 talk to their friend from down the block who got taken, right, 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.280 And And that's what's so I think that, Like, I'm 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.920 very interested in my work, not to like be real serious, 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.480 but I'm very interested in storytelling and has stories which 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.880 stories get told, you know, And so I'm so fascinated 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.560 by Like, to me, this is an urban quote unquote 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.360 myth because is it a myth we don't know, but 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.480 if we were to call it an urban myth, it's 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.160 one that only exists within the culture of children, and 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.200 we could think about it. Also, I mean similar like 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.440 the cousin to this, the white people's us into this 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.880 is like Bloody Mary or Resurrection Mary, you know, which 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:08.120 like is another Chicago story. And obviously Candyman the o 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.360 g as well. Um, and so there's all these things 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.280 that specifically kids talk about but like me. And then 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.320 the other really obvious thing that we have to mention 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.319 is that there was a real clown, a real clown 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.160 who murdered people, and that was John Wayne gayzy right right. 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.280 John Wayne Gay is a white man though, and Homie 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.520 is black. John Wayne Gay was a white man, but 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.600 he killed everybody. He wasn't discriminatory in any kind of way. 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:36.720 He took a white boys, but he got everybody. I'm 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.240 curious to know because based off of the premise that 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:44.600 you set up. Are you suggesting then, that you do 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.920 still believe in Homie. You just now are unable to 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:53.120 see everything that a child is able to see in 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:57.079 your belief, if that makes sense. I believe in Homie 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:03.079 as much as I believe in America or any other 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:09.360 type of mythological abstract concept. Right. So, I believe that 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:14.280 there are things that humans invent to create sutures that 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:18.280 buying together our culture and hold us away from the 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:22.800 threat of chaos. And those ideas include things like nation hood, 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.680 like religion, right and so, and I believe that Homie 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.160 is in that category. I believe that really honestly links 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:30.840 and Homie is the only thing between us and the 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:35.280 total like collapse of society. He's the glue. He's the 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:39.760 glue that holds children's culture together, and that he does 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.680 with all great urban myths do, which is there's like 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.800 a moralistic tale, right, which is like you have to 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.760 watch out, don't stray too far, don't stand over by 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.280 that fence. And the other amazing thing about the Homie 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.719 myth is the white van, right, because Homie always has 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.040 a white van. Now, white vans are just like everybody 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.079 you know, they're in a city like Chicago, white vans 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.120 are ubiquitous, right, because a white van is there somebody 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.560 on their way to do whatever contract work or whatever. 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.160 And it's also about like in the eighties and nineties, 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.200 there's all this like stranger danger of fear. There's all 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:15.600 this like urban inner city, urban whatever fear, you know, 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.600 to that sticker that they had on every door with 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.320 the guy in the big trench coat and he could 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.960 only see his eyes and the hat. He looked like 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.079 Dick Tracy. But he's meant to be a sign that like, hey, 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.640 kidnappings happened here, kidnappings happen. You know. Scruff McGruff is 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.160 on TV at this time. Like everything is about scaring 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.760 kids out of the idea and scaring kids into compliance 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.040 by letting them know that criminals are everywhere. Right. But 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.280 the thing about Homie is also that like it's such 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:49.440 a specifically like black and like Mexican American Chicago thing 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.680 that I'm also I'm curious about, Like I've never heard 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.560 white people talk about Homie the clown. You know. That's 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.880 that's interesting because in the little bit of research that 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.520 I did, and I'm sure yours is much more efficient, 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.560 but the research that I did. There are a lot 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:08.520 of articles that sort of came out of white spaces 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:13.600 basically affirming the same timelines and the same opinions and 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.520 fears from white kids, suburban kids, like all kinds of 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.240 communities outside of our own. I do think. I mean, 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.240 I was a suburban kid, right, Like I grew up 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.680 in Oak Park. It wasn't as if like I was, 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.360 And granted I was tapped into probably a different lexicon 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.520 just being black in Chicago and my mom being you know, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.760 all over the place whatever, But like, I do think 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.680 that some of this, just to your point, is allegorical 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:48.000 there for it reaches further than even like race and culture, right, yeah, absolutely, 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.080 And I think that it's just interesting that like real 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:55.800 things that are empirically demonstrably real, like Damon Williams over here, 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.320 John Wayne Gacy over here, that those things get synthesized 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.040 into you know, this mythos of homie that I think 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.320 is so fascinating. I have to ask you, actually, I've 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.440 been wanting to ask you. Did you do you feel 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.440 like in Oak Park where people talking about homie, it 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.760 wasn't a constant fear, if that makes sense. I think 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.480 that I knew I've now like grown up and known 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:17.200 people who were like on the South Side, and they 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.440 were like no, no, no. We talked about it every 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.680 day like that was like a thing that we were 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.240 constantly we're vigilant. And this is the other thing is 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.720 that there's no phones during that, right, there's no phones. 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.440 There's no spies, right, So part of this is also 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.480 like you're just a kid on the playground. It's four 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.400 degrees outside, right, Like you're just staying around waiting for 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.640 the builders, which is like, what is there to discuss. 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.120 I I truly am and maybe you'll feel this way. 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.280 I truly am impressed that my parents kept me alive. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.440 Like the the amount of times that I was sort 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.760 of like meant to go home by myself, do things 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.360 completely alone, with no way of contacting me, no way 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.760 of assuring that I made it, say, flee from point 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.840 A to point B. The fact that I survived is 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.840 truly a testament. Oh it's miraculous. Yeah, it's a miracle. 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.760 And yeah, that's why you need a homie the clown. 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.160 You need somebody to like constantly be like there is 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.000 a murdering clown available to take you if you choose 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.400 to not follow every sting that I'm laying out for 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.840 you right, whether I'm there or not, because there's no 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.880 find my iPhone, there's no GPS, there's no there's none 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.600 of that, you know. And yeah, no I I got 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.080 my own key to the crib when I was seven, so, 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.920 you know, so starting at age seven, it was like, 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.840 you know, you come and you let yourself in, you know, 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.000 And we had neighbors and there's a crossing guard. My 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:44.840 mom was always telling me that the crossing guard was 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.640 watching me, you know, but it was like it was 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:52.000 real out here, and so without Homie, where would we be? Honestly, right, 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.640 we just all kidnapped from less less silly reasons. We 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.880 kidnapped for. It's not a clown, it's a grown man 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.080 who wanted to I guess the same, but just meaner. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.000 That's right. Let me ask you this, how many of 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:13.200 the people in your life have you shared this theory 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.360 with and do you feel like they would support this 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:20.360 theory or are they going like Eve, you Wi don't 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.160 write your books, but you're acting up you out here? Yeah? 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.439 So I think you know, sometimes when you when you 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.440 are a party to a difficult truth, it really hard 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.320 to bear the burden, you know, within a generation to 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.280 bear the heaviest, the head that wears the Homie the Clown, 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:42.680 as they say, and I think that I have. This 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.920 is not something I have widely discussed with my loved ones. 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.480 I have told my husband, you know that I have 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:54.000 these these opinions about Homie. He's intrigued, he's fascinated. And 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.679 from Chicago as well. He's from New Jersey. He's from 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.199 North New Jersey. So they have their own it's you know, 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.840 they have their own stuff going on out there. But 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.399 one person I have shared this with, who I believe 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.560 it's been a guest on the podcast is our our 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:13.080 dear mutual friend, Nathaniel Armstead Marshall Nate. And I told they, 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.320 you know, I was I'm going on link since podcast 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.800 and I'm going to talk about Homie the Clown. And 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.840 he was delighted. He was thrilled, you know, because he 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:28.080 shares my affinity for hyperlocal um hyper hyperlocal content. But yeah, 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.119 you know, it's really hard. It's really hard when you 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:31.760 know something that you know the rest of the world 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.600 isn't ready for. Well, that's really it's really tough. I 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.000 have to imagine. It's also a hard part of sharing 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.840 it is that because it's so localize, there's there's something 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:45.000 almost crazy in that, right, Like it's like when people 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:49.240 argue about fucking hot dogs. It's like, well, these are 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.160 the best ones and these ones aren't good, but you don't. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.439 You don't have a way of communicating why it is 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.000 the best or what makes it different. It just is. 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.240 It just is. It's just facts. Yeah, but I didn't 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.400 experience it, so I don't know you're chirping over. It's 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.080 like the pizza thing. The pizza the quote unquote debate 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.440 really gets on my nerves because when people are like, oh, 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.119 Chicago style pizza, you know, da da dada us this 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.560 it is that it's like, we don't Chicagoans. We don't 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.040 eat deep dish pizza on the regular, Like you don't. 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:21.880 You're not like Friday night pizza. Right, It's like a celebration, 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.240 like a cake. It's like getting a birthday cake. It's 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.280 not a thing that you eat. We eat regularly, eat 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.800 tavern style, a little squares of pizza. That's the true 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.040 Chicago The true Chicago style pizza that you will not 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:35.080 get as a tourist is a little square you know 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:40.359 that that gets cut up in sixty eight squares, tiny little, 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.400 very small, very small squares, and you have to eat 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.639 twelve pieces to feel like you've had a meal. You know, 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.159 that's real Chicago style pizza. So I'm like, we're not 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.639 even entering on the same conversation. And with with with 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.600 the Homie, with the matter of Homie, the damon Wayne's 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.760 party makes it complicated because it's weird to say I'm 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.280 going to tell you about something. You already have heard 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.560 this phrase and already know what I'm talking about, but 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.679 you don't, right, and then like and he hits you 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.240 on the head, They're like yeah, Like David White is like, no, 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.119 it's not the same. So yeah, it's very it's very complicated. 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:11.720 And as I said, I'm very grateful to have the 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:13.480 chance to come in the show today and finally tell 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.840 America to about Homie. Let me ask you this, do 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:22.959 you think that part of what kids are seeing is 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:27.320 intentionally being placed there by adults? Because that's that's part 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.720 of where I'm trying to make sure that I'm understanding 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:34.119 how the allegory exists. Does that allegory merely exists because 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:38.119 we morally are sort of checking ourselves as children or 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.400 is that something that adults are intentionally sort of like 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.200 planting the seed. They can't see it anymore, but a 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:48.080 child's imagination allows them to build the world of the 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.240 white van. That's such a good question. I think you 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:55.600 are rehearsed it at home and you're a professional, you know, Okay, 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:57.879 So I hope I'm not jumping the gun by bringing 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:03.280 this up. But there's this article from probably and the 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.880 newspaper article in Chicago, and it's about police investigating claims 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:12.800 of homie. Have you seen this article article? So it's 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.679 from the early nineties, and it's kids were going to 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:17.960 their teachers and to their parents and saying, I saw 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:21.000 this white van and it's Homi the clown and police 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.040 the Chicago police Partment was like, we are really, we 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.040 are taking this seriously. We are looking into it. We 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:28.720 have not found any evidence, right, And I think that 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.000 that moment is funny because it's a moment where like 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:35.760 the lore of children crosses over into like actual law enforcement. Again, 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:37.800 this is the nineties at the time everybody's scared of 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.240 child abductions. They are they're trying to take this really seriously. 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:43.399 There's like there's a what who? And then in the 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.640 article they're like reports, you know, reports come from like 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:51.880 you know, Avondale, Inglewood, Back of the Yards and roseland 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:54.920 it's like all these flights is that are like nowhere 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:57.720 near each other. Right, It's like but which was also 0:21:57.760 --> 0:21:59.440 fascinating because on the one hand, it's kind of a 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.680 till that like, maybe this story isn't quite what it 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:05.760 seems to be because most child deductors I don't really 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.359 I'm just talking because I actually don't want to talk 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:09.720 about but I assume the most child deductors are not 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:17.320 driving like literally all of it. You're driving a Chevy 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:22.920 ascro Can. You can find enough murderable kids and within 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:26.080 the five city, but you go to one playground, you 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.520 go to the one dayground where you know, the teachers 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.040 aid like how don't take a slight break every two minute? 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.920 You know, like you're not gonna drive from North Lawndale, 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:39.639