1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: From Mahart where Innovation of Money and Power Collie in 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Silicon Vallet NBN. 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlove. 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 3: I'm Caroline Heindel Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York, and 5 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 3: I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. 6 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg Technology coming out. 7 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 3: We'll bring you the latest on the Israel Hamas conflict 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 3: and explore the role of intelligence and cybersecurity amid the war. 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 4: Plus we'll discuss the role social media plays in misinformation, 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 4: is Elon Musk's ex faces backlash over changes to its 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 4: content safety policies. 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 3: And we'll return to the trial of Sam magmun Fried 13 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 3: as it enters its second week, with a key witness 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 3: taking a stand Israel Hamas the war fighting enters a 15 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 3: fourth day. Joining us for the latest an updated bloom exactly, Alstein, 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: and you're in Tel Aviv at the moment. 17 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 5: Just bring us up to speed with what you're anticipating. 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 6: Yes, so, I think, actually, good evening. I think actually 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 6: the most interesting development that we're going to be seeing today, 20 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 6: and this is not a short thing yet, will be 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 6: that Israel is actually looking at a new government we've 22 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 6: we've been getting messages this afternoon that Israel's ruling coalition 23 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 6: said that it wants to form a rare emergency government 24 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 6: with the opposition following Saturday's attacks by Hamas, and they're 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,279 Speaker 6: now finalizing the final details. So, you know, we cannot 26 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 6: say that this is surely going to happen, but it 27 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 6: does look like this is going to happen. And in essence, 28 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 6: what this means is that the entire operation in Gaza 29 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 6: that we're looking at and that Israeli officials are saying 30 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 6: will be taking a long time, maybe several weeks or 31 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 6: more than that ahead. Then that will be run by 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 6: a very narrow small war cabinet that will be comprised 33 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 6: of Prime Minister of Benjamin Kaniao's party and opposition leaders 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 6: Benny Gunn's party, with the other parties that are parties 35 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 6: that are were nationalists more far right out of the 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 6: picture only for that only for the war operation, and 37 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 6: then after the war we'll see what happens politically. But 38 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 6: that's the most significant development that we're looking at today. 39 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 4: Gali, you and your colleagues in our bureau, and actually 40 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 4: on this program, we talked to some of those that 41 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 4: have been part of the mobilization effort, three hundred thousand reservists, 42 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 4: many of them technology industry workers. What is the latest 43 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 4: sort of military response and action on the ground in Israel. 44 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 6: Yes, yes, so that is an interesting question. And today 45 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 6: we've been actually hearing a lot of Idea for officials 46 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 6: speak to us about the focus now being aerial attacks 47 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 6: on Gaza, and the chief Idea of spokesperson tells some 48 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 6: this morning that the attacks that have been taking place, 49 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 6: especially last night but throughout the last thirty six hours 50 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 6: or so have been unprecedented, precedented in the terms that 51 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 6: there are very fierce. What the air force now is 52 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 6: doing is Gaza that they're striking in rounds that are 53 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 6: taking place every every four hours. They're just going back 54 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 6: and forth. They're striking thousands of targets over there. They 55 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 6: have also reported that they have managed them to kill 56 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 6: from with these aerial attacks to senior figures in Hamans 57 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 6: this afternoon. So that's what the focus is on now. 58 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 6: And they're also describing that they've sort of built a 59 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 6: steel wall, that's what they call it, along the Gaza 60 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 6: fence in order to stop any more possible infiltrations. So 61 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 6: they've actually placed a lot of tanks over there on 62 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 6: some aerial vehicles that are shooting down at anyone. And 63 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 6: that's what they stress anyone who's trying to shoot across 64 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 6: the fence, no matter who they are, And that's main 65 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 6: focal point of what the Israeli are force is doing. Now, 66 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 6: just in oneer sentence, I will tell you that obviously 67 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 6: they are preparing for a much larger ground operation, and 68 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 6: they're doing that by mobilizing a lot of soldiers and 69 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 6: reserve forces towards the southern border and the northern border 70 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 6: as well. 71 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 4: Bloomberg's Galley Olstein one of many colleagues in Israel and 72 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 4: the Middle East, Caro who are doing minute by minute 73 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 4: reporting of what's happening. We're very grateful to have you 74 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 4: here on Bloomberg Technology. Let's turn to the intelligence side 75 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 4: of this conversation. How did Hamas get around one of 76 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 4: the most sophisticated surveillance states to stage its attack against Israel? 77 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 4: Joining US now is Kissed and Todd, the former chief 78 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 4: of staff for the Cybersecurity in Infrastructure Infrastructure Security Agency SISA. 79 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: There's the hard war, hard tech component, and then there's 80 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 4: the soft power soft tech component. What have you learned 81 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 4: about hamas is cyberactivity in what has been forty eight 82 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 4: hours already since the attack. 83 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 7: Well, first of all, thanks so much, Ed. It's incredibly 84 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 7: early in this crisis. We're seeing just the increased escalation 85 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 7: over the last few days. We're now seeing deaths, over 86 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 7: a thousand, potentially over sixteen hundred hostages being taken, and 87 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 7: the concern that there's going to be a second front, 88 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 7: certainly on the northern side with Hesbela. What American intelligence 89 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 7: officials need to be asking right now, they are asking 90 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 7: is what direct role, if any, did Iran have in 91 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 7: the supplying, the preparation, the encouraging of this attack. We 92 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 7: know that Iran views its alliance with Hamas as a 93 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 7: point of leverage as it's looking to destabilize and derail 94 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 7: the engagements with Israel and Saudi Arabia, and so certainly 95 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 7: civilian casualties on both side both sides would obstruct any 96 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 7: attempt toward a type of agreement between Israel and Saudi Arabia. 97 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 5: So the tools available to all. 98 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 7: Sides are not just kinetic. It's not just the fierce 99 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 7: fighting that Gleat just talked about. There are cyber weapons 100 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 7: and cyber tools which we know everybody has access to. 101 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: Let's talk about those cyber weapons cyber tools already being deployed. 102 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 3: You say, it's very early days in the crisis. Already 103 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 3: we've seen cyber attacks being aimed at both sides. Can 104 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 3: you tell us sort of what these look like in 105 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 3: the early iterations and whether they're going to be ram 106 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 3: top as days go forward. 107 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 7: It's hard to know where they will escalate to, but 108 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 7: certainly right now we're seeing unofficial reports of DDoS attacks, 109 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 7: the use of malware, defacement of websites we saw back 110 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 7: in twenty eleven twenty twelve that are on use DDoS 111 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 7: attacks against the United States financial sector. The capabilities of 112 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 7: all nation states in cyber are enough. They're not necessarily 113 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 7: as sophisticated as Russia or China, but we know that 114 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 7: the capabilities exist, and that if there is a war 115 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 7: that is going to access all tools that cyber could 116 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 7: be used in lieu of kinetic weapons, but more likely 117 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 7: in conjunction with kinetic weapons. 118 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 3: I mean interested in real Joyce Director Cybercurity over than 119 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 3: National Security Agency. He's saying, thus far, cyber component hasn't 120 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 3: been that significant and it has been more of these 121 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 3: denial of service elements, but they could ramp up. 122 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 5: I'm interested as to how difficult it is to pass through. 123 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 3: Who are activists, where are they coming from, and what 124 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 3: really the end goal is here. 125 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 7: Well, it's a great question because what we're looking at 126 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 7: right now really is how can we be resilient? Rob 127 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 7: is absolutely right. I mean, what we're seeing, we're not 128 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 7: seeing any targeted attacks at this point, but what we 129 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 7: want to be really aware of is how can we prepare, 130 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 7: how can we be resilient against what could come. When 131 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 7: we saw the imminence of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, SISA 132 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 7: put out a shields Up advisory to critical infrastructure companies 133 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 7: to say, heighten your awareness, heighten your vigilance, lower the 134 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 7: threshold for reporting. 135 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 4: What we're talking about. 136 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 7: Now isn't necessarily what we know to becoming, but the 137 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 7: importance of being prepared, being resilient, and being vigilant as 138 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 7: we create a more resilient infrastructure for the United States. 139 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 4: Kristin, you're talking about preparedness. Yesterday, Professor Chuck Freilich of Columbia, 140 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 4: former Deputy National Security advisor in Israel, said that this 141 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 4: wasn't a lack of intelligence. It was a lack of 142 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 4: imagination that the security and intelligence forces just didn't think 143 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 4: that something of that scale could happen because they could 144 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 4: imagine it. Put that in the cyber context for us, 145 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 4: you seem to be suggesting that a lot of that 146 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 4: competence and know how would come from the Iran side 147 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,599 Speaker 4: or a third party actor, not necessarily Hamas itself. 148 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 5: It's hard to know. 149 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 7: Certainly Iran has these capabilities, and as I said, we've 150 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 7: seen Iran use cyber capabilities. I think your point about 151 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 7: failure of imagination is obviously. 152 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 4: Not my points. 153 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 7: Yeah, brings us, unfortunately back to nine to eleven. In 154 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 7: what we look at as human nature, we often prepare 155 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 7: for that which we know we can respond to. Our 156 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 7: challenge is the ability to prepare for that which is 157 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 7: more frightening, more devastating, more destructive. And so when we're preparing, 158 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 7: we have to be thinking about how can cyber player 159 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 7: role in this and what do we need to be 160 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 7: doing again to prevent, to prepare, and importantly to be resilient. 161 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 4: You were with SISA through July of this year. I 162 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 4: want to ask you about Palenteer and the private public 163 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 4: relationship that there have been loads of questions posed about 164 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 4: Palenteer over the weekend. Do you have any experience you 165 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 4: can draw on or opinion on the role that the 166 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 4: private sector could play in the intelligence and cyberspace data 167 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 4: related going forward. 168 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 7: One of the things that I was so pleased with 169 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 7: and proud to be a part of a SISA and 170 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 7: with the federal government is the improved relationship between industry 171 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 7: and government in threat intelligence, in the ability to share information. 172 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 7: The solar winds attack that happened back in twenty twenty 173 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 7: was identified by the company FireEye, and the ability then 174 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 7: for the private sector to share information with government, for 175 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 7: government to do the same in real time, so that 176 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 7: we can create not a complete thread intelligence picture, but 177 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 7: certainly a more comprehensive one so that coming together industry 178 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 7: and government can respond. We know that one entity can't 179 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 7: respond and retaliate on its own, respond and react that 180 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 7: we've got to be able to work together. 181 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 3: So great to get your sister experience and of course 182 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 3: now a CEO of Liberty Group Ventures Kist and Todd, 183 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 3: thank you for your time today. I meanwhile, coming up, 184 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 3: we're going to be turning back to the markets. Look 185 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: at just how these geopolitical moments are impacting all the 186 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 3: investment space. 187 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 5: At last, do stick with us. 188 00:10:33,640 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 2: This is blombog technology. 189 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 3: Now amid the current heightened geopolitical tensions central banks, they 190 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 3: seem to be the catalyst for today's treating action at 191 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 3: least joining us now to break down the short term 192 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 3: the long term in terms of your technology to Hillary 193 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 3: Fresh with a very police are welcome for senior research 194 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 3: analystic technology software at Clearbridge. 195 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 5: Hillary, give us your sort of bird's. 196 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: Eye perspective right now when we are in the throes 197 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 3: of major reactions. When we do see selloffs become something 198 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 3: that is the immediate response to a geopolitical threat and concern, 199 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 3: is that the right way to be thinking about your 200 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 3: technology investments right now. 201 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 8: It's a very good question. Thanks for having me, Carolina 202 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 8: and Ed. It's good to be here. It's you know, 203 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 8: what's interesting is we haven't seen that user excel off 204 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 8: this time so far. I think the market is interpreting 205 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 8: a relatively isolated circumstance. We'll see if that proves to 206 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 8: be the case. At Clearbridge, we tend to be long 207 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 8: term investors. We take a long term horizon and we 208 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 8: like to use periods of weakness to add to key 209 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 8: portfolio positions in technology specifically, well, I don't see Q 210 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 8: three in particular as any kind of barnburner quarter or 211 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 8: major catalyst either way from the sector. I do see 212 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 8: a period between now and mid late next year when 213 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 8: we should actually see technologies start to decouple in terms 214 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 8: of growth from the broader economy. That's partly due to 215 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 8: AI and a variety of other factors. But I do 216 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 8: see technology as a place where investors will want to 217 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 8: continue to invest and. 218 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 3: Which particular drivers, which forces have changed do you focus 219 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 3: in on When you think of an Nvidia which has 220 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 3: had parabolic growth in terms of its overall market valuation 221 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 3: based on an AI fundamental viewpoint, but it also is 222 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 3: exposed to geopolitical tensions when it comes to China US, 223 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 3: when it has to maybe even some exposure in terms 224 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 3: of supply chain with Israel. How do you dissect what 225 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 3: really ultimately means to be a long term view? 226 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 8: Sure, well, in video side, because there are certain factors 227 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 8: driving their results versus others. Most tech companies have exposure 228 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 8: somewhere in the exposure in Israel. In such places and 229 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 8: the long term of political situation is a dynamic one, 230 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 8: but I don't see associated disruption as the primary concern. 231 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 8: As we've seen from the markets, the primary concern has 232 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 8: been the rising dollar and interest rates. They've had a 233 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 8: better quarter than anyone else out there, and that puts 234 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 8: near term pressure on translated revenues and earnings and also 235 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 8: on valuations. But to the extent that these types of 236 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 8: conflicts don't grow out of control, they tend to present 237 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 8: opportunities to invest in long term trends. It's interesting because 238 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 8: yesterday we saw security companies rallying. I think they're rallying 239 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 8: again today. And security companies are some of the ones 240 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 8: with the largest exposure to Israel. Some of them are 241 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 8: based in Israel, or we're based in Israel and have 242 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 8: dual headquarters. But in periods of rising to a political tension, 243 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 8: there tends to be heightened adoption of security security solutions. 244 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 8: So it's a push and pull between what that disruption 245 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 8: looks like and what the outcome looks like in terms 246 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 8: of increased revenues. And we live in a remote world. 247 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 8: Technology pioneered remote work. They were doing it long before 248 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 8: we were as a broader economy. With the pandemic so 249 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 8: we've seen circumstances where companies can adapt fairly quickly, but 250 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 8: it is a real they're deploying a lot of folks 251 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 8: that are deploying a lot of reservists of working and age, 252 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 8: so there could be some disruptions along the way. 253 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 4: Hillary had ed in San Francisco. Do you like charts? 254 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 4: You strike me as somebody that's a chart watcher that 255 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 4: likes charts. I wonder what makes you say that? 256 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 8: But I don't just like charts. 257 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: Okay, let's bring up one chart. I want you to 258 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 4: explain something to me. NASDAK one hundred against the S 259 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 4: and P five hundred Software Index. Here today, the S 260 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 4: and P five hundred Software Index is a very limited basket, 261 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 4: but it has kind of enterprise SaaS Cyber and then 262 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 4: Microsoft's in there as well. They're basically up the same 263 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 4: amount year to date. What is it then that's driving 264 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 4: those software names higher multiple or otherwise right now? If 265 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 4: it isn't fed, if it isn't geopolitical risk, what is 266 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 4: your outlook based on? 267 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 8: Investors like to focus on higher technology multiples as though 268 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 8: growth were equivalent between tech and the broader economy. But 269 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 8: growth is not equivalent between tech and the broader economy. 270 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 8: Technology is where nearly all of the growth has been 271 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 8: coming from. So in this recent period where we had 272 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 8: rising dollar and rising interest rates, tech actually outperformed the 273 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:25,119 Speaker 8: broader economy in SMP. With AI and the precursor investments 274 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 8: to AI and a normalization of spending, an environment in 275 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 8: tech which I believe has been in recession, a very 276 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 8: mild recession over the course of better part of last year. 277 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 8: That looks poised to be the case even more so 278 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 8: going forward. Tech valuations with software as a proxy for 279 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 8: enterprise tech are just at their five year pre pandemic average. 280 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 8: They're just a hair above their tenure pre pandemic average, 281 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 8: meaning excluding the pandemic period where evaluations really elevated. I 282 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 8: think that's a decent backdrop for tech into twenty four. 283 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 8: Were in second half, I expect AI to be much 284 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 8: more of a catalyst. We could talk about that more 285 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 8: if you. 286 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 4: Like, Well, I think we're out of time. Unfortunately, Hilary 287 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 4: Fish of Clearbridge, and that was a loaded question. I 288 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 4: know you like charts. Who doesn't like charts exactly? But 289 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 4: it is good to have you back on the program, 290 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 4: will have you back very soon. It is time for 291 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 4: Talking Tech and first off Ubersoft fell the most since May, 292 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 4: after the French video game maker delayed the release of 293 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 4: its new free to play game X Defiant, originally scheduled 294 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 4: this summer. The company cited quote inconsistencies in the game 295 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 4: experience as the cause of the delay, and worldwide personal 296 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 4: computer shipments declined nine percent in the third quarter, hitting 297 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 4: what Gartner analysts expected will be the low point in 298 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 4: a two year market slump. Apple had the steepest drop 299 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 4: among the major PC makers, with shipments falling twenty four 300 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 4: percent from the same quarter a year earlier. Plus, the 301 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 4: stock of China's biggest food delivery platform, Maitwe has almost 302 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 4: halved since a peak in January, with global active fund 303 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 4: managers offloading three point seven billion dollars of the company 304 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 4: shares this year. This makes it the most sold Chinese 305 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 4: tech firm during that period, according to Morgan Stanley Caroline. 306 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 2: Great set of stories ed. 307 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, let's get up to speed of what's happening just 308 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 3: over in another part of New York right now, someonemn 309 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 3: Fried's trial. We want to get to be a MOTIONALI 310 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 3: Bassack outside the US District Courthouse. 311 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 5: In downtown Manhattan and Shanali. There's a pretty key witness 312 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 5: that everyone's waiting for. 313 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 9: With Beta breath, there are very many key witnesses hitting 314 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 9: the stand right now. We were waiting on Caroline Allison 315 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 9: to take the stand. Of course, she is the pivotal witness, 316 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 9: both for the prosecution as well as the defense. We 317 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 9: know that there may be some key evidence that also 318 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 9: comes to light in the sake of this trial in 319 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 9: the middle of her testimony. For example, diary entries that 320 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 9: have been largely talked about the last couple of months 321 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 9: leaked earlier to The New York Times. This idea here 322 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 9: that she had a lot of discomfort in running Alameda, 323 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 9: her own abilities to take a leadership role there, and 324 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 9: conflicts with Sam himself. We know that Caroline and Sam 325 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 9: had been on and on on and on again, off 326 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 9: again dating. Remember she was his girlfriend, so knew a 327 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 9: lot of the intimate workings of Sam at Alameda and 328 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 9: in his personal life. Right now, the testimony of Gary Wan, 329 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 9: who is also an FTX co founder, is also wrapping up, 330 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 9: getting a lot of very interesting details about what happened 331 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 9: in those dire days of November when FTX was about 332 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 9: to fall, and then also even earlier when he was 333 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 9: required to write the code that ultimately led to the 334 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 9: back door that Alameda had used to take money out 335 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 9: of FTX. You're also hearing about how he came to 336 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,479 Speaker 9: the agreement with prosecutors as well to which he had 337 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 9: pled guilty and agreed to cooperate in this trial. So 338 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 9: that is wrapping up inside as we speak. And to 339 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 9: your point, Caroline Allison will take the stand just this. 340 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 4: Afternoon, Shnalali, give me some of the drama and color 341 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 4: of the core room I've stood where you're standing weeks 342 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 4: and weeks in a trial like this. This is Caroline 343 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 4: Ellison's first public appearance and it's important for prosecutors, right 344 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 4: this is a big moment for them. 345 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 9: This is the biggest moment. She is such a critical 346 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 9: part of this trial. Remember, prosecutors themselves say only a 347 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 9: very small number of people really knew what was going 348 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 9: on inside of FTX and Alameda and the extent to 349 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 9: which this alleged fraud was carried out. Now, remember when 350 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 9: you think about Caroline and her role at Alameda, she 351 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 9: was the CEO of the hedge fund in question here 352 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 9: that has said to have been taking money out of 353 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 9: FTX in two different ways, through the wallets and through 354 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 9: FIAT itself. Now, remember you were talking about the star 355 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 9: studed trial. Here Caroline speaking for the first time such 356 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 9: a critical part of the defense. 357 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 5: This is the second week. 358 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 9: Of what will be a six while to which many 359 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 9: many journalists from early in the morning seven am, many 360 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 9: spectators have been outside waiting around the courthouse here. Now 361 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 9: they're all inside, so you don't see them as we 362 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 9: stand out here now, But yes, it has certainly been 363 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 9: very highly watched. There has been a lot of commotion 364 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 9: outside the courthouse itself, and there will be many more 365 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 9: people coming to try throughout a couple of weeks, including 366 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 9: Anthony Scaramucci, whose Skybridge had taken money from FGX in 367 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 9: the form of a thirty percent stake. 368 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 3: Well battled the traffic noise, Shannani stood out there for 369 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 3: hour after hour. 370 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 5: We really appreciate it. 371 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 4: Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology, Ed Loblow here in San Francisco. 372 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 4: One of the top stories that we're tracking on Bloomberg 373 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 4: and Bloomberg Technology is X, the company and platform formerly 374 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 4: known as Twitter, facing criticism over changes made to its 375 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 4: content safety policies that have led to confusion misinformation around 376 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 4: the conflict between Israel and hamas X has responded to 377 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,959 Speaker 4: our reporting saying this is the first crisis as X, 378 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 4: and this means we're all eyes, hands, hearts on across 379 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 4: all divisions and have put into place our crisis protocol, 380 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 4: all teams, policy, product operations, escalation, and much more. I 381 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 4: want to bring in Bloomberg's Asha counts. What we're talking 382 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 4: about here is largely video content circulating on X and 383 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 4: other platforms that purports to be one thing, but based 384 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 4: on the research groups we spoke to and community notes, 385 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 4: users flagging it is actually something completely different. 386 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 10: Yeah, it's a huge problem, right, So as you just 387 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 10: mentioned that excess response. The challenges is that some of 388 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 10: these posts, videos and images have received millions of views. 389 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 4: They've ended up. 390 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 10: On TikTok and Facebook Q and on forums for o 391 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 10: white websites, and it's not verified. And researchers have found 392 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 10: time and time again posts are showing videos of conflicts 393 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 10: that are from video games, are from other conflicts that 394 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 10: are not this conflict. Big statements from the White House. 395 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 10: I mean, it's a huge problem, and researchers are saying 396 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 10: this is something that they haven't seen. 397 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 5: It's unprecedented to the point that it's unprecedented. 398 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 3: Is this suddenly well more significant use of artificial intelligence 399 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 3: by those that are putting some of the disinformation out there? 400 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 3: Is it a lack of well technology as a way 401 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 3: to fight back at some of this misinformation target What 402 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 3: are we seeing not only at X but across the board, 403 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 3: whether it be TikTok, whether it be Facebook. 404 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 10: I think it's a couple of things. It surely could 405 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 10: be partially from AI. I think with X specifically, it's 406 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 10: about the changes that Musk has made since he took 407 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 10: off the platform. So the misinformation policy was rolled back. 408 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 10: So the policy now is that things can stay up. 409 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 10: Maybe the visibility is limited, but again, as we've seen, 410 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 10: it hasn't really been that limited. If millions of people 411 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 10: are viewing some of these posts. They've cut a lot 412 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 10: of people on their content safety teams and electro and 413 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 10: integrity people that are normally responsible for trying to see 414 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 10: information on the site. They've made it harder for researchers 415 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 10: to access data on the site. 416 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 5: So it's all of those. 417 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 10: Factors together that have made it really difficult. And then 418 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 10: not even to mention the verification process and able to 419 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 10: just buy a blue check mark, So it's hard to 420 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 10: tell who was a trusted voice in. 421 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 4: Some of these issues. Just not date for our audience. 422 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 4: Linda Yakarino, who is the CEO of X, was due 423 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 4: to speak at a WT Wall Street Journal event this 424 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 4: week and has canceled it, I'm told so she can 425 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 4: specifically be on hand to deal with this crisis. You 426 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 4: mentioned verification just quickly. This isn't unique to X, but 427 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 4: what we're seeing is verified users share across platforms. In 428 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 4: the case of that false White House statement as an example, Yeah. 429 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 10: Exactly right. There was a statement that someone put out, 430 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 10: supposedly from the White House that said they were going 431 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 10: to authorize billions of dollars and aid in Israel. Turns 432 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 10: out what a researcher found was that that was actually 433 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 10: a statement about Ukraine. At someone doctor to look differently, 434 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 10: and to your point, you have verified users, so you 435 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 10: might think that it's a trusted source because you see 436 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 10: that blue check mark, and it's really not. It's just 437 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 10: someone who paid eight dollars a month who maybe has 438 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 10: not done any reporting or hasn't really looked in and 439 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 10: tried to verify the facts or could it actually be 440 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 10: a bad actor who's intentionally trying to spread miss leading 441 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 10: information to increase engagement on the say ashaccounts. 442 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: Thank you so much bringing us the latest when it 443 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 3: comes to technology's role within well your consumption of what 444 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 3: is news right or wrong. Let's talk about the role 445 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 3: of social media within this war as we know it. 446 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,239 Speaker 3: Welcoming Yaile Eisenstadt, vice president at the American Defamation Lease 447 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: Center for Technology and Society, and I'll great to have 448 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 3: you here. Of course, you are with an institution that 449 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 3: is all about, you know, holding disinformation to account in 450 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 3: many ways, and anti hate organization is the key focus 451 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 3: of your work. How are you seeing this difference, this 452 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 3: particular moment different from what we've seen in prior episodes 453 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 3: of conflict. 454 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: Sure so, as you just pointed out at ADL, we 455 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: have been tracking this kind of work, both anti Semitic 456 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: incidents in the real world as well as how hate 457 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: and disinformation proliferates online for decades and what we are 458 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: seeing right now. I mean I used to just brought 459 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: up some of the issues going on pticularly on X, 460 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: but part of the problem is X used to be 461 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: the place when it was Twitter that people went to 462 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: in times. 463 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 5: Of a real time crisis. 464 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: Let's be clear, it was never perfect before, but it 465 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: was at least a place where people knew who were journalists, 466 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: people knew who were verified accounts, They had some sort 467 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: of way of figuring out who to follow and what 468 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: information may be more credible than others. And all the 469 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: things we've been highlighting as really concerning changes at the 470 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: company over the last year are now really showing why 471 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,719 Speaker 1: it matters. We are seeing not just disinformation and misinformation 472 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: proliferate on the platform, but I mean, if I can 473 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: just give you a few examples, So just yesterday I saw, 474 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: you know, when team saw a video from an account 475 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: I usually had brought up the verification blue check process, 476 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: from a blue check bought as an automated account who 477 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: pays eight dollars a months to get that blue check, 478 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: which means he's prioritized in our news feeds with the 479 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: fake video saying it was come us executing hostages. Now 480 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: what's interesting is, not only is that video still up 481 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: as of last I checked about an hour ago and 482 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,239 Speaker 1: been viewed hundreds of thousands of times, there is no 483 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: way for a user to flag it as mis or disinformation. 484 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: If you look at the drop down menu of how 485 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 1: to flag content, there is no option for disinformation. 486 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 5: But they would say that's community notes. How has that 487 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 5: been helping hindering? 488 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: From real perspective, they would say that, and while community 489 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: Notes in and of itself might be a really interesting 490 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: experiment to think about for the future, it is not 491 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: the way to moderate content during a real crisis. And 492 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: to be clear, it's not just about what's happening on 493 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: the ground right now, but we at ADL are also 494 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: concerned about the potential to proliferate anti semitism. Here at home, 495 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: we have extremists and antisemit anti smites who were replatformed 496 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: over the past year on X reveling in some of 497 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: this violence, actually seeing some of the most horrendous antisemitic 498 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: things online. And I really really am happy to see 499 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: exce's statement that they are proactively going to monitor for this, 500 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: but I just have to be frank, right now, I'm 501 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: not seeing that yet. 502 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 4: Well, thank you for joining us on the show. While 503 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 4: we've been on air, X have sent us some data 504 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 4: saying that community Notes has generated close to thirty million 505 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 4: impressions and that five hundred unique notes on the x 506 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 4: platform directly relate to the tach the attacks. That's based 507 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 4: on three days of activity. What I really want to 508 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 4: ask you about is the positive story of social media. 509 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 4: A lot of the engagement that we've had on the program, 510 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 4: and indeed some of the guests that have joined were 511 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 4: through social media channels. There are people trying on various 512 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 4: platforms to identify those that are missing. Have you any 513 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 4: evidence or have you seen any positive use cases of 514 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 4: social media in the Israel Hamas over the last. 515 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: Three days, So to your point, I'll start with community 516 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: notes again. Yes, I think it's actually a really great 517 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: way for people to be able to crowdsource information to 518 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: fact check in real time. The problem is it's putting 519 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: the responsibility on the user for doing that, as opposed 520 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: to the platform itself. So while community notes is definitely 521 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: an interesting, positive potential step, it cannot be the only 522 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: thing for curbing this kind of disinformation. 523 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 5: And you know this might not fit the word positive. 524 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: But it is really actually important to see just how 525 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: horrific the crimes are right now that are happening on 526 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: the ground in Israel, and that does happen on social media. 527 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: And we can debate whether terrible images online is useful, 528 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: but to be able to see some of the very 529 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: on the ground reporting to know that a grandmother was 530 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: murdered in her own home while they filmed it on 531 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: her own phone and uploaded it to her own Facebook feed. 532 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: That's the type of thing we can only see if 533 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: we have people really being able to report in real time. 534 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 5: So that is a positive use. 535 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: You can get so many voices that are not normally 536 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: the voices that might surface. The challenge though, is how 537 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: to differentiate that from the noise, from the blue checks, 538 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: from the people who are purposely glorifying violence or seating 539 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: anti Semitic conspiracy theories. 540 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 5: To change the narrative here, Yeah, thank you for your 541 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 5: time here. 542 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, as in stat on the Anti Defamation League, we 543 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 3: turn to you. 544 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, we will keep this conversation going, and coming up 545 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 4: on the show, we're going to look at the impact 546 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 4: of the war on the region's tech scene, not just Israel, 547 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 4: but broader than that. That's next. This is Bloomberg Technology. 548 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 4: We continue to monitor what's happening in the Middle East. 549 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 4: On today's VC Spotlight, we want to welcome mahmood Quois 550 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 4: for his take on how the Israel Hamas war has 551 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 4: got impact both the Israeli and Palestinian tech sectors. Mamood 552 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 4: is a Jerusalem based founder and CEO of software company 553 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 4: tech Clinic, which has operations in both Jerusalem and Ramala 554 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 4: in the central West Bank. He's also a researcher at 555 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 4: Harvard Kennedy School's Belfa Center for Science in International Affairs. Mood, 556 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 4: Welcome to Bloomberg Technology. You have on the ground connection 557 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 4: to what is happening to the technology sector in both 558 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 4: the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip. What can 559 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 4: you tell us about the situation for the technology industry 560 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 4: workers and founders that you know. 561 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 11: Yes, well, thank you very much, and keviline for usting me. 562 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 12: I would start saying that we learned a lot from 563 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 12: COVID and we adapted very quickly. There was a shutdown 564 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 12: of our services for one day or one and a 565 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 12: half day. Then we recapped and our staff started to 566 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 12: work from home and a serjective percent. 567 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 11: Effort, not one hundred percent effort. 568 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 12: We have people working from Gaza, people working from Romola 569 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 12: and other people working from Jerusalem. So and the fact 570 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 12: on the ground that the company is still running and 571 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 12: other companies are also still still running. 572 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,959 Speaker 11: This situation in Gaza. 573 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 12: This situation in Gaza and all the borders of Gaza 574 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 12: has affected a lot of the economy, but with the 575 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 12: tech it is less affected. I believe because of the 576 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 12: type of services that we provide. As services, we don't 577 00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 12: go to factories. We work from our offices, from our 578 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 12: home all over. What we need is a laptop and cloud. 579 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 3: You're doing software development, outsourcing, testing, innovation, business development. 580 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 5: I'm interested as to how intertwined. 581 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 3: Those sort of supply chains, so dependencies that service is 582 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 3: between Israel and Palestinians. 583 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 5: How much are you seeing that they depend on each other? 584 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 12: Well, I believe that most of the tech industry in 585 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 12: Palestine depends on dements on Israeli, on the Israeli market 586 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 12: together with the European and the US market, but the majority. 587 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 12: I could claim that the majority are depending on the 588 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 12: Israelio market, and there are lots of cooperation between the 589 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 12: Palestinian tech companies and entrepreneurs with the Israelio market and entrepreneurs. 590 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,719 Speaker 12: There is no specific statistics that calculates this, but talks 591 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 12: from the media and some sources from the articles in 592 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 12: the media. There are some thirty one companies in Palestine, 593 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 12: like in West Bank and Gaza, who are giving services 594 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 12: to Israeli tech companies and multinational companies also operating from 595 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 12: such as Nokia, Apple, Microsoft and other companies. So the 596 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 12: dependency is very very high on the Israeli market. Now, 597 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 12: during the situation, there was a little bit of not 598 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 12: closing down but hold on with some projects. I was 599 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 12: talking to some founders, some of their Israeli clients has 600 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 12: stopped their operation for a while until things are not 601 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 12: vague anymore, and I believe that life would go to normal. 602 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 12: But with regards to the other clients in the US 603 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 12: and in Europe, our team in Gaza are still operating 604 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 12: under questions. Yes, it's a servisky situation, but they're still 605 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 12: operating and providing services to our europe collect my mood. 606 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 4: You recently stepped down in the last ten days or so. 607 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 4: Is the chair of fifty to fifty, an accelerator a 608 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 4: VC accelerator essentially that tried to back founders the work 609 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 4: cross border Palestinian and Israeli. Do you have a sense 610 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:27,439 Speaker 4: of sort of the lasting impact of the talent poll 611 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 4: and the guards of strip or indeed in the West Bank, 612 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 4: you know, will we see technology startups coming out of 613 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 4: those regions in the future. 614 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 11: Oh yes, well, I do believe in that. For the 615 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 11: last five years I was joining, I was on the 616 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 11: board of. 617 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 12: Fifty to fifty, and I've seeing the remarkable evidences on 618 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 12: the ground of companies or co authored and co founded 619 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 12: by Israeli and Parraslian co founders. 620 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 11: Those companies are still are still running. 621 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 12: Only this year in September, nine companies were established with 622 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 12: two israel and Israeli and Parsinian co founders. And we're 623 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 12: targeting the intellectual Parasceine and intellectual Israelis with masters and 624 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 12: PhD degrees people would have who have patents and research 625 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 12: on their ideas, and those they have lots of opportunities 626 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 12: to win. Now let me let me also add that 627 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 12: the Israel is more advanced in intech than than Palestine. 628 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 11: And this is why I joined. 629 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 12: This fifty to fifty and I was leading fifty to 630 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 12: fifty in order to transfer some knowledge from from Israel 631 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 12: into into Balastein and from the US also. And this 632 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 12: is why we have partnered with Tel Aviv University with 633 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 12: Israeli College of Engineering. Those are two leading Israeli academic institutions. 634 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 11: Together with Northeastern University in Boston. 635 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 3: Of course, bring your academia to the table. Of course, 636 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 3: with your as a researcher for Harvard Kennedy Belfa Center. 637 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 3: I'm interested is to your perspective on what what are 638 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 3: the industries that we've seen really unique ideas come out 639 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 3: of within tech from Palestinian entrepreneurs. 640 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 5: What are they looking to solve? 641 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 12: Well, there there are many Parstilians are human beings, same 642 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,280 Speaker 12: as really same as others. 643 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 11: So it is what they like is the platform. 644 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 12: That can have have them and incubate incubate them. 645 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 11: Currently, the the incubator and the environment. 646 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 12: In Palistine are not enabling enough for those ideas. 647 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 11: But we're talking about. 648 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 12: Innovation AI in computing and quantum computing, and agriculture, food tech, fintech, 649 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 12: and many many other industries. 650 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 11: It is the same as the whole world. 651 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 12: We are very much exposed to the to the international 652 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 12: community and to the international innovation and then the whole world. 653 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 12: We are lots of our youth are part of the 654 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 12: World Economic Forum and they join the many conferences all 655 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 12: over the world. So we have different sources of knowledge 656 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 12: that we bring into Palestine. And besides, besides that, parastinias 657 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 12: are known of highly educated educated people, like the majority 658 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 12: of parastilians. 659 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 11: Have a BA degree like a bachelor degree. And this 660 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 11: is a good. 661 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 12: Pool of talents that we can contribute to the to 662 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,720 Speaker 12: the word solution truly. 663 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 3: Cross Fader conversation, Mamood Grace, thank you so much, CEO 664 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 3: of Tech Clinic, We thank you. 665 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 4: The writers strike is over after a tough hot summer 666 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 4: for Hollywood, but the troubles on over for Bob Eyger. 667 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 4: Disney's legendary CEO, came out of retirement to save the 668 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 4: company right into for its one hundredth birthday, but nothing 669 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 4: has really gone his way so far. Let's break down 670 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 4: the details with Bloomberg's Thomas Buckley. You've done this kind 671 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 4: of big takedown in Business Week. Tell me about the 672 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 4: magazine piece. 673 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 13: Absolutely so. The magazine piece ed looks at the return 674 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 13: of Chief Executive Officer of the Disney Company, Bob Aiker, 675 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 13: who left the company in twenty twenty one as executive 676 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 13: chairman before that as CEO in February twenty twenty. He 677 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 13: came back to the helm of Disney in November of 678 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 13: last year, and so far nothing at all has gone 679 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 13: his way. I think that the TV business is in 680 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 13: a decaying state that he had not anticipated fully. The 681 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 13: streaming service is losing hundreds of millions of dollars every quarter, 682 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 13: and he desperately needs it to be profitable by next 683 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 13: year to honor a pledge the new mat to Wall Street. 684 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 13: He has yet to find a successor, and speculation is 685 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 13: rampant on Wall Street that he's looking to potentially break 686 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 13: up the company to extract value in that direction. 687 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 3: Absolutely fascinating take about whether or not he wants upon 688 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,760 Speaker 3: a time is looking for Apple to be the buyer, 689 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 3: and indeed whether or not he saw his future really 690 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 3: remaining with the business. Thirty seconds Thomas has he lost 691 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:07,720 Speaker 3: his allies? 692 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 13: I think with a number of his allies during his 693 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 13: first tenure that really helped shape with the success of 694 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,240 Speaker 13: his first tenure. Have Nelsonce left the company, He's actually 695 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 13: got a few allies left of the company, and that's 696 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 13: led him to reappoint two of his former successes in 697 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 13: waiting to advise him on selling different parts of the business. 698 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 4: So that's not to say. 699 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 13: That he's lacking support from his employee based I think 700 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 13: that most reliefs are most employees are still very really, 701 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 13: but he is back. But nonetheless I think that he 702 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 13: certainly doesn't have the cohor that he used to have 703 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 13: supporting the success of his first tenure during his second term. 704 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 3: I'm really urge everyone to go grab a cup of 705 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 3: coffee sit down with this piece because it's a long read, 706 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 3: but it's a great read. Bloom MoG's Thomas Buckley, we 707 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,959 Speaker 3: thank you so much for it. Meanwhile, some breaking news 708 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 3: on Caroline Allison. She is indeed saying that Sam mcmnfree 709 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,399 Speaker 3: directed her to commit crimes. We have so much more 710 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 3: in the Crypto Show coming up next on Bloomberg. You 711 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 3: don't want to miss it. 712 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 5: Silt back technology