WEBVTT - The Targeting of Trump with Andy McCarthy 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.520 House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer had this to say 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:05.800 on Fox News recently. 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.200 No one believes this was a coincidence that on the 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:12.319 same day the FBI produced a document that showed they've 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.880 been sitting on allegations of a Biden bribery for years. 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:20.439 That Donald Trump just happened to be indicted by the 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.520 Special Council for mishandling and classified documents when Joe Biden 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:29.080 himself mishandled classified documents on a much greater scale than 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.880 what Donald Trump did, and we haven't heard a thing 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:33.080 from that Special Council. 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:35.000 So is that what this is all about. We know 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.520 that Democrats have been trying to get Donald Trump from 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.400 day one. The latest is thirty seven phony charges from 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.680 the federal government ranging from the wilful retention of national 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.640 defense information to conspiracy to obstruct justice. We're going to 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:50.640 dig into those charges and get to the bottom of it. 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.199 What you need to know, where this is going and 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.160 what it means. I'm sure you've heard a lot about 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.960 the Presidential Records Act. What is it and how does 0:00:58.000 --> 0:00:59.920 it play into this case. We're going to get into 0:00:59.920 --> 0:01:02.480 all of this with former Chief Assistant US Attorney Andy 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.000 McCarthy's also a senior fellow at the National Review Institute 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:14.600 and a Fox News contributor. Stay tuned for Annie McCarthy. Well, 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.399 Andy McCarthy, I appreciate you taking the time to come on. 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.040 You've joined us before, and I feel like, in such 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.880 a thoughtful manner, really took us through the New York 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.800 City indictment against Donald Trump. So I appreciate you making 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:27.640 the time this time. 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:29.120 It's my pleasure. Lisa. Thanks. 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.640 And then of course that gets to, you know, sort 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.560 of the frustration of where we are now. We've now 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:39.760 had two unprecedented indictments against a former president. Obviously, this 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.160 has never happened before in American history. Is this the 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:44.760 right direction for the country. 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.520 No, it's a terrible direction. And I wish we could 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:50.840 say the half of it was over. But I think, 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.720 you know, in August, we're going to get yet another 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:59.520 indictment from Fulton County, Georgia, in connection with the with 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:05.160 the election stuff from twenty twenty. In October, Lisa, I 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.320 feel like everybody's going to sleep on this one. But 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:12.800 in October, the civil trial that was brought by Letitia James, 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.680 the Attorney General in New York who ran on using 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.560 her power to go after Trump. That trial starts on 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.720 October third. That's going to be a major fraud trial 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:25.880 that's going to take a number of weeks. And as 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.800 we just saw with the last civil trial that Trump 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:33.040 had with Egene Carroll, it's tough being a defendant in 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:38.160 a civil case. There's a lot of disadvantages that litigation wise, 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.880 that are where you lack the protections you have as 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.600 a defendant in a criminal case. So I think that 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.600 could be that could be worse than people are focused on. 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.160 We have this new case with Smith, and what I 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.920 have started to try to remind people is that Smith 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.960 is a special counsel like Muller was and like so 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.880 at some point, I don't think he's going to charge 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.520 Trump with January sixth stuff. But I do think he's 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:09.520 going to write a report like Muller did and like 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.440 Durham did, and they will drop that some you know, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:17.400 it's some advantageous moment for them during the election cycle. 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.600 So no, it's a terrible you know, we've had now 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.639 how many presidential election cycles in a row where we 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:30.760 have law enforcement pervasively involved in electoral politics. It's terrible 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:31.519 for the country. 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.640 Looking at this case that he is going to be 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.800 facing in the Southern District of Florida where I live. 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.520 I live in Miami. In South Florida thirty seven felon 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.720 accounts ranging from things like will for retention of national 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:48.560 defense information to conspiracy to obstruct justice. After reading the indictment, 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:49.880 what do you make of it? 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.400 It's not quite the indictment that I thought it was 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.040 going to be. In two ways. I thought number one, 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.160 that if he really wanted to get to trial quickly, 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.520 he would have indicted it lean and mean and just 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:07.320 done the obstruction stuff, because I think it's the obstruction 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:12.000 stuff that their political messaging is that what distinguishes Trump 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:17.159 from say Biden, who also illegally retained classified information, is 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:21.720 that Biden supposedly cooperated to the utmost with the investigation, 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.919 while Trump obstructed the investigation and lied to the grand jury. 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.000 So I would have expected that that was what he 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.240 was going to front, and I thought that maybe it 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:37.880 would be the only charges he brought. The problem Lisa 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:43.680 was bringing the espionage Jack counts from a from a 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.880 prosecution perspective, as if you're trying to get the trial 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.440 the case to trial quickly, which he claims he is 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.880 trying to do. That opens up a lot of litigation 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:59.960 issues about what classified information is going to be admitted 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.159 at the trial. I was really surprised reading the indictment 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:07.880 at how descriptive it was about the thirty one classified 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.480 documents that they've made the heart of the case. Usually 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.159 the government takes the position that we can't even whisper 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.680 or anything about this stuff because it would harm national 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.560 security for any of it to be public. Here, they 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:26.200 were pretty descriptive about the kind of information that was involved, 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.200 the classification levels that were involved, the duration of time 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:35.200 that Trump is alleged to have retained these things. And 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:39.160 I think by doing that, you invite Trump to say 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.719 that in his defense, he needs to give the jury 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:47.400 a more expansive idea of what's in these documents, which 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:53.280 is typically what defendants do in these national security classified 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:57.039 information cases. Not so much because the documents necessarily helped 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.640 them in the sense of being exculpatory, because they know 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.680 the government doesn't want to reveal the contents of the documents, 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.000 so it puts the government in a position of blocking 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.520 the defense from making what they argue is their defense, 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.839 which creates a big issue on appeal, and also because 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.320 this all has to be litigated pre trial into something 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.200 that's called SIPA, which is the Classified Information Procedures Act, 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:26.080 those proceed those litigations proceed at a glacial pace. I 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.800 had one in a terrorism case in the nineties. At 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:31.800 the end of it, I think I read toward the 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.440 end of our trial, I read like a nine line 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.000 stipulation to the jury, but it took a year and 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:38.800 a half of litigation to get there. 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.280 The part where I'm confused is, Okay, if you take 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.480 the instance of Joe Biden, he allegedly has documents from 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.000 his time in the Senate, and if that would be 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.440 the case, you have to enter a skiff you're signing 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.599 documents in it out like you would basically have to 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.240 have like stuffed it in, you know what I mean, 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.200 Like to remove documents in that instance, right, would show 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.920 like absolute malice and intent. Whereas with this Donald Trump case, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.960 it's like a reasonable person could say that there is 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.840 some ambiguity in the sense that like a president does 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:12.320 have ultimate authority to declassify or classify documents, and so, 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.200 you know, I think it is reasonable to believe that 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.280 there could be ambiguity about is he allowed to keep 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:20.840 the you know what I mean, like, whereas if you're 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.360 taking documents out of the Senate, it's like, dude, you're 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.000 you know, I mean, you're really trying here, right, And 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.520 so I think that's where there's a lot of confusion 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:33.640 and you know, maybe doubt or a perception of bias. 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.920 I would say that, you know, having been in these 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:42.280 kinds of positions, the big difference between the executive branch 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:47.680 and the legislative branch in this regard is that national 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.440 security officials and the executive branch are on duty twenty 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:56.040 four to seven, and consequently arrangements are made so that 0:07:56.080 --> 0:08:01.880 they can review classified information at home and in other locations, 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:07.160 whereas members of Congress are not in that position and 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.400 they have to review if they want to review, they 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:14.320 have to review national security information in a skiff on 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.160 Capitol Hill and they're not allowed to take it out. 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.680 So I quite agree with you that if Biden had 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.680 information from the time he was in the Senate, he 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.240 had to have willfully taken this, and to me, that 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.240 undermines a lot of his a lot of the points 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.880 he gets for being cooperative with the FBI's investigation. I 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.280 do give him some credit for that. You know, he 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.160 allowed them to search his homes. I don't think he 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.680 did it rapidly enough. I mean, to me, I think 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:44.240 that Merrick Garland, you know, basically sat on his hands 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.719 and let Biden handle this thing, which was irresponsible on 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.160 Garland's part. But look, he did let the FBI come 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.960 in and search his places and all that stuff, whereas 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.560 with Trump he was a national security official. But you know, 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.000 to the extent they had arrangements in mar A Lago 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.400 while he was president to allow him to review you know, 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.280 I assume they had a skiff down there while he 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.560 was president so that you know, he could review those 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:15.199 documents under those conditions. You know, when he wasn't president anymore. 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.480 If he didn't have a skiff, he wasn't supposed to 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:19.400 have that stuff down there, and he would have known that. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.520 But so you know, there's there's obviously problems. But you're 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:29.800 right that as president, he would have had the power 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.480 to look at this stuff, or the authority look at 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.000 this stuff in locations other than a skiff in the 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.199 White House. And you know, we're seeing the same thing 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.600 with Pence, right he ended up with documents in his 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.840 House because he was allowed to review stuff there too, 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.840 and he said that it was typical that after he 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.400 reviewed it, he would give it to his military attache 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:53.040 who brought it and they put it in the burn 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.520 bag or do whatever they do with it. And at 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.400 least on a few occasions it sounds like that didn't happen. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.600 But you could see, as you're saying, you know, how 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.040 there could be something inadvertent that happened in that kind 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:05.640 of situation. 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.920 Well, it just feels like everybody does it. But then 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.000 the one guy they're trying to get is the guy 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.440 they've been trying to get since day one. So it's 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.520 just it's it's a feeling of unfairness. And I say 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.880 this as someone who is unsure about, you know, Donald 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.320 Trump being the strongest Republican nominee, right, but it just 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.720 it's a feeling of unfairness and also just concerned about 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.480 the weaponization of the law. You know, there's been a 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.719 lot discussed about the Presidential Records Act and it's a 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:32.439 little confusing, you know. I read there as an op 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.959 ed in the Wall Street Journal by Michael Bakesha I 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.079 think is his name. I'm probably butchering his last name 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.240 who lost the Clinton socktorre case, and he wrote that 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.199 the Presidential Records Act allows the president to decide what 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.320 records to return and what records to keep at the 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.079 end of a presidency, and the National Archives and Records 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:51.079 Administration can't do anything about it. What are your thoughts 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.240 about that? You know, what are your thoughts about the 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:57.199 Presidential Records Act? And you know, using it as you know, hey, 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:58.400 he didn't do anything wrong here. 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.280 Yeah, I don't agree with it, and I think, you know, 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.240 in the op ed and in the commentary about the 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:09.400 Presidential Records Act, they're leaving out something that's like the 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:13.839 most critical, straightforward fact, and that is it doesn't apply 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:20.240 to agency records. It explicitly, the Presidential Records Act explicitly 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.559 excludes agency records from coverage. So, in other words, they're 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.320 saying agency records are not presidential records. What's an issue 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:35.079 in President Trump's case is agency records specifically are national 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:40.480 security agencies, and they're classified reporting about various threats to 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:45.200 the United States and military situations and the like. They're 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:50.040 not covered by the Presidential Records Act. That act is 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:55.440 basically what it covers is things that are generated by 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.840 the president and his staff or given to him for 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.880 purposes of carrying out his day to day activities. And 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.280 what he's allowed to keep as opposed to archive is 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.400 things that are in the nature of say diaries or journals. 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.040 And what was at stake in what the op ed 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:19.439 today in the Wall Street Journal is about were tape 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:27.000 recordings that Clinton when he was president, created in conjunction 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.480 with a historian who he was working with to compile 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.600 what they helped would be a published history of the 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:39.120 Clinton presidency. So these were documents that were created by Clinton, 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.680 and they're more in the nature of presidential records than 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.040 agency reports, which is what it's set at stake in 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:51.679 Trump's case. So I really don't think it's obviously caused 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.319 a lot of confusion, and it's going to give the 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:59.240 the Trump defenders some things to play with, but you know, 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.240 ultimately an don't think they're going to get very far 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:01.560 with it. 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.360 Let's take a quick commercial break more with Andy McCarthy 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:09.520 on the other side. You know, one could argue that, 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.480 you know, destroying evidence with the hammer or using bleach 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.960 bit to delete emails would be obstruction of justice. You know, 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.119 Yet Hillary Clinton's been unscathed. 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:23.079 That's a political problem of the discretion that you have 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.880 in law enforcement to bring charges has been politicized, and 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:33.520 it is totally unfair that she got a pass and 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.960 he gets charged. But I guess the problem for him, Lisa, 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.880 is that selective prosecution as a as a piece of 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.560 political rhetoric is very effective. I think, you know, on 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.840 the stump, Trump is going to have a lot of 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:53.440 fun comparing his case to Hillary's case and comparing you know, 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.640 to Biden's case and to everyone else who got a 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.360 pass Petraeus Deutsch. You can go down the list of 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.880 people who either didn't get prosecuted at all or got 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.680 to slap on the wrist over stuff that was arguably 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.680 at least as serious as what Trump did. The problem 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:15.480 with it as a legal strategy is if Trump were 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.400 to argue selective prosecution to try to get his case 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.840 knocked out, the legal test is not going to compare 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.840 Trump to Clinton. It's not like a one on one thing. 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.960 It will be it will be to compare Trump to 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.760 everyone else who gets prosecuted under the Espiona jacked or 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.320 to everyone else who gets prosecuted on obstruction. And he's 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.200 just not going to be able to argue that no 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:45.760 one gets prosecuted under those provisions. Obstruction cases are very common, 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.240 and when we're dealing with people who are not you know, 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:55.960 high level celebrity politicians like Trump and Clinton and you know, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.080 Petraeus and Pence and Biden and the rest of them, 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.040 if you're dealing with just like the normal military officer, 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:08.360 intelligence officer, defense contractor, those people get prosecuted when they 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:15.160 when they possess an unlawfully retain classified information that's a 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.400 lot less serious than you know, a lot of the 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.160 stuff we're talking about in these high level cases, and 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.120 it's totally not fair to them either. You know. On 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.120 the one hand, I think Trump is right to say, 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.560 like how come Hillary gets a pass and I don't. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.920 But you know, if you're a military guy who's who's 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.480 like doing a two year sentence for keeping some stuff 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.520 that you shouldn't have kept in your house, you know, 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.080 you've got a pretty good argument that you know, it's 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.840 likely that Trump may end up being treated better than 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:44.640 you are, you know. 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.400 So, but it also sends a different message to go 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.520 after that military guy than it does a former president. 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.680 And you know, the leading contender for Republicans in the 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:54.560 presidential election. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.280 One could argue with the message it sends is a 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.080 terrible message. It's that the two tier justice system is 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.800 just what your part is, an affiliation is, it's how 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:04.680 connected you are. 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.640 Obviously, this all stemmed from the National Archives and Records 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:11.600 administrations seeking documents. If this was anyone but Trump, would 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:12.880 they have been given more deference. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.840 Yes, although I think it's fair to say that they 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.320 also gave Trump deference for a long time. And one 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.760 of the things that bothers me about this case is 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.520 the way that people tend to Some of the people 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.640 who will argue about the case tend to collapse the 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.400 you know, the timeline of what happened here. The National 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:40.480 Archives pleaded with Trump for months to return his stuff, 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:47.960 and they didn't get the Justice Department involved until almost 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.400 a year after they started asking Trump to give his 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.400 stuff back, when he returned grudgingly fifteen of the boxes, 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.560 which he only did, by the way, because they said that. 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.200 The National Archives said, you know, look, if you're not 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:01.960 going to give us our stuff back, we're going to 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.240 have to go to the Congressional Committee, the oversight committee 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.680 that deals with this kind of stuff, which was controlled 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.760 by a you know, a portisan Democrat, of course. So 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.679 Trump was angry about that, but he realized that, you know, 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.800 he didn't want that mess. So what they did was 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.119 they gave fifteen boxes, which I think, in the greatest 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.000 scheme of things, is probably less than half of what 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.400 he had down at Mar A Lago. And the only 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.560 reason the Justice Department got involved is when they went 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.840 through those boxes, they found I think it was like 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.520 one hundred and eighty four or something classified document. Some 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.919 of them were highly classified. So at that point the 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:45.600 Inspector General of the National Archives referred it to the 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.399 Justice Department, and even they didn't want to touch it 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.960 because Biden understood the implications of you know, taking enforcement 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:55.800 action against a guy he was going to be running 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.760 against in the election, or at least it was a 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.479 very high probability of it. So the FBI and the 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.800 Justice Department didthered for about three months before they did anything, 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.359 And there were messages that were sent to Trump basically saying, 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.600 you know, let's just give us the stuff back and 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.160 then we can call it a day, when he wouldn't 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:19.320 do it. They didn't leap to like, you know, the harshest, 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.600 most intrusive measure they could have done. They gave him 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.800 a grand jury subpoena, which meant that he could go 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.320 through his own stuff and give them back what they 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.240 were asking for. And at that point they didn't ask 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.240 for every single government document he had. They asked for 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:41.119 the classified documents, and even then when they asked him 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.720 for that, he didn't. You know, they realized pretty quickly 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.000 that what he gave them, which was thirty eight documents, 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.320 was not everything that he had left, and that was 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:55.680 why ultimately they did the search warrant. Now, I think, interestingly, 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.560 the FBI didn't want to do the search warrant. You know, 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.959 there's a lot of criticism, which a lot of it's 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:05.080 very valid against the FBI, but I think this, I 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:09.320 think the search warrant was more driven by the Biden 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.119 Justice Department than the FBI. What the FBI wanted to 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:16.480 do was ask Trump to consent to search tomorrow Lago 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:21.520 to search his home, rather than get a warrant. And 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.960 if they had done that, I don't know if Trump 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:25.840 would have agreed to this, but at least you would 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.159 have had a situation where, you know, Trump could have 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.439 been present, he could have had his lawyers present, they 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.600 could have accompanied the Bureau and it would have been 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:37.080 done by agreement, and it probably could have been done 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:41.800 quietly and without fan fear. The Justice Department didn't want 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.479 to do that, and it's hard to I'm like a 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.120 major critic of the Biden Justice Department, but it's hard 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.960 to criticize them under circumstances where you know, you have 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.240 one government official after another for over eighteen months who's 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.720 asking Trump please just give us our stuff back, and 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.520 he wouldn't do it. Point you know, they don't like 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.359 them to begin with, but I think their patients was 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:03.880 run out. 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.040 Facing a jury in the southern district of Florida looks 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:11.040 a lot different than facing a jury in liberal New 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.600 York City. How hard is it going to be for 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.080 prosecutors to win in South Florida, where you do have 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.680 Trump supporters, where you do have Republicans. 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.040 I like to think, Lisa, because I you know, I 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.840 tried cases in New York for twenty years now. Politically, 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.399 fraud cases are a little different from other cases. But 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:34.320 in my experience, juries tend to you know, they they 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.040 tend to check their politics at the door. In fact, 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.840 I didn't really think that was a phenomenon until recently. 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.520 You know, when I was when I was a prosecutor 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.199 in New York, you know, I was a liberal. I 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.639 was a conservative lawyer in New York. All my best 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.280 friends in the office were Democrats, you know, and it 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.040 wasn't a big deal because the job was more you know, 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.960 clinical than political. And I found that most of the time, 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.320 you know, you can get a crazy jury here or there, 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.000 but for the most part, juries are pretty good at 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.560 listening to what the court tells them and you know, 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.760 applying the law that the judge instructs them on to 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.360 the only the facts that they learn in court. Judges 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.199 in federal court in particular, do a very good job 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:24.199 of vetting a jury and visiting on them the obligation 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.080 to decide the case based solely on the law and 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.760 the facts and not extraneous concerns. They do a good 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:35.199 job of weeding out people who are so political they 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:37.639 don't belong on a case like that. So I have 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.360 confidence because I've seen the system work. I have confidence 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.000 that the system will work and that President Trump will 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:48.840 get a fair trial, and I hope it'll be decided 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.560 based on, you know, whatever the facts are, rather than 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.440 the politics. But I feel like we're talking a little 0:21:54.480 --> 0:22:00.400 bit of a fantasy or a fiction because the way 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.280 I see it, I don't see how this case gets 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.560 to trial before the election, and depending on how the 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.360 election comes out, I don't know, it may never get 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:11.800 to trial. I mean if Trump obviously, if Trump were 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.639 the if the Republicans win the election, forget about you know, 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.120 whether it's Trump, I don't think this case would ever 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:22.160 go forward. I think that, you know, there's enough anger 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:24.920 on the Republican side over the two tiers of justice. 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.840 I don't think people want to defend Trump's actions, but 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:31.320 they do want to defend the principle that everybody should 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:33.679 be treated the same. So I think it will be 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:37.440 a thing for whoever the Republican nominee is, whether it's 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.840 Trump or somebody else, that if that case hasn't been 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.160 disposed of before the election, the Justice Department will drop 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:49.479 it in the next administration. And whether the Democrats are 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:52.000 actually going to pursue it, I guess they will. You know, 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:57.040 if the Democrats win the election, I suppose then it 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:00.000 could go to trial. But I just don't see how 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:02.199