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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftstetch Podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is producer songwriters sometimes artist Lauren Christy. Lauren,

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Speaker 1: good to have you on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's great to be here, Bob.

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Speaker 3: So, what's the status of songwriting today in a world

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Speaker 3: that's dominated by streaming and frequently only one song off

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Speaker 3: an album has millions of plays?

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Speaker 2: If that hm hm, wells, yeah, it's very, very different.

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Speaker 2: I'm on the board of SONA and the new NMPA

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Speaker 2: Songs Board, and of course we spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time talking to this about this problem, and Michelle Lewis

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Speaker 2: and Kay Hanley, who are the heads of SONA, there's

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Speaker 2: so much more equipped to talk about the details of this.

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Speaker 2: But I can tell you what it means to me

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Speaker 2: is okay, So basically it's voluntary.

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Speaker 3: Just to start for a second, that's a National Music

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Speaker 3: Publishers Association for those people who don't know an MPs. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 3: so it means.

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Speaker 2: To you, It means to me that I mean, I

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Speaker 2: teach a masterclass on songwriting and the first thing I

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Speaker 2: say is please don't just be a songwriter. It was

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Speaker 2: very important to me that in nineteen ninety nine after

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Speaker 2: I came from being an artist that I started the

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Speaker 2: Matrix and with my partner Scott Sparkan my ex husband

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Speaker 2: Graham Edwards, and so we were producers. And so I

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Speaker 2: didn't even realize at the time that that was a

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Speaker 2: very important thing to do because of what was going

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Speaker 2: to happen in the future with songwriting becoming volunteer work

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Speaker 2: basically because there's no money on streaming really unless you

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Speaker 2: maybe there is money if you have a massive top

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Speaker 2: forty radio hit, like Top ten, because then the songs

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Speaker 2: get synced in all the TV adverts and you know,

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Speaker 2: basically Top forty still pays money, but that's like kind

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Speaker 2: of the quan right getting to that top ten spot.

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Speaker 2: And today with streaming, that's all anyone really cares about,

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Speaker 2: and it seems that's all the record labels care about.

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Speaker 2: Like radio. I don't even know many kids in their

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Speaker 2: early twenties who are listening to traditional radio. So it

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Speaker 2: means that the streaming is not really paying an artist.

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Speaker 2: So what I preach is, please become a producer. Please

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Speaker 2: become the artist or the producer, because then you have

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Speaker 2: master ownership, and that's what it's all about. If you

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Speaker 2: don't have master ownership. You are basically not going to

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Speaker 2: get paid. And it's like sort of like being a poet.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure it's very nice to be a poet,

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Speaker 2: but they don't make a lot of money, or maybe

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Speaker 2: two of them do in the world.

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Speaker 3: Right. Okay, Let's say an artist with some success says

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Speaker 3: to you, I want you to write songs for me.

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Speaker 3: Do you only choose to work with people who have

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Speaker 3: a good chance of having a hit single with the

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Speaker 3: song you're writing, or is it like the old days

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Speaker 3: since you get a royalty on every song on the CD?

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Speaker 2: You say, fine, I mean, I do this for the

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Speaker 2: love of it. So if I think the artist is

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Speaker 2: a star and they've got an incredible voice, if they've

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Speaker 2: got nothing going on, I'll work with them as long

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Speaker 2: as I'm the producer. I have to be the producer,

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Speaker 2: So I'm taking like long bets, you know. Yeah, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't have to be that. I can see that, you know,

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Speaker 2: the president of the labels signed them and that they've

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Speaker 2: got the best manager in the world and all that stuff,

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Speaker 2: because I've seen things come out of nowhere and become

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Speaker 2: successful in my career. So it's really like, does my

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Speaker 2: heart feel like I want to do it if they

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Speaker 2: if they're impressive to me, then something extraordinary could happen.

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Speaker 3: Okay. Needless to say, recording budgets have gone down. Prior

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Speaker 3: to the Internet era, producer, we get three to four

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Speaker 3: and frequently from record one in addition an advance against

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Speaker 3: those royalties. What are the deals like today?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I do think that there seems to

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Speaker 2: not be so much money, especially for newer artists. I

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Speaker 2: think still there's probably I should think Mark Ronson and

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Speaker 2: Rick Rubin of making some gangbuster money. Still, I kind

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Speaker 2: of have a certain price list of how I do

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Speaker 2: things for independent artists, it's so rare I'm ever going

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Speaker 2: to see any money on the back end, so I

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Speaker 2: charge quite a big fee on the front end. For majors,

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Speaker 2: I drop it a little bit because there's maybe a

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Speaker 2: chance of getting to that top forty spot, you know.

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Speaker 2: I see a lot of people working for like what

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Speaker 2: I think seems like ridiculously small amounts of money. I

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Speaker 2: just think as usual in this business, there's no rules.

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Speaker 2: It's the wild wild West, and you have once you

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Speaker 2: have some success, you sort of have to set a

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Speaker 2: standard of what you get paid. And it's worked out

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Speaker 2: quite well for me to just say no quite a lot.

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Speaker 2: It's the most powerful world, most powerful word in the

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Speaker 2: music business or in entertainment is no, and I stick

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Speaker 2: to that quite often. Okay, sometimes if I love somebody

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Speaker 2: and it's they've got no money to pay me, I'll

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Speaker 2: sign them and to my production company and just do

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Speaker 2: it all for nothing.

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Speaker 3: Now, there are a lot of people who've made money

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Speaker 3: from record labels in the last century beginning of this century,

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Speaker 3: and that money has dried up, and they have done

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Speaker 3: vanity records over the last ten or fifteen years. Where

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Speaker 3: somebody says, I have the money, my son or daughter

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Speaker 3: is twelve, they want to make a record. Is that

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Speaker 3: something that's in your world that you've done.

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Speaker 2: M yes, I have. But I have a very strict

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Speaker 2: rule about that too, that is, if they're not an

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Speaker 2: amazing singer, I'm not doing it. I feel like, when

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Speaker 2: you've got a reputation for doing some good work, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to ruin that reputation and just be about

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Speaker 2: the money. And it's not really ever been about the

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Speaker 2: money for me, thank god. It's just been you know,

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Speaker 2: as long as they're really talented. Sometimes they have a cause,

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Speaker 2: like I work with a girl who had a very

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Speaker 2: pretty voice, and she was running this charity for children

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Speaker 2: with Down syndrome, and she were going I think it

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Speaker 2: was called Happy House or something, and just they would

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Speaker 2: all like do music together, and I just thought it

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Speaker 2: was so beautiful that I got involved and made eight

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Speaker 2: songs with her. And I wasn't sure where it was

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Speaker 2: going to go or if there was going to be

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Speaker 2: any success, but she had a lovely voice and it

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Speaker 2: was a good cause, and so yeah, I'll do things

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Speaker 2: again if my heart's in it. I never just want

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Speaker 2: to say I'll give me the money. This kid's crap,

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Speaker 2: you know, but I'll take the money. I just can't

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Speaker 2: do that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Diane Warren. She is hustling, even in this late

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Speaker 3: day twenty four or seven. She's calmbing the trades, you know, movies,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. Looking for work. Are you more active or

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Speaker 3: you more passive waiting for the phone to ring? What's

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Speaker 3: it like for you?

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Speaker 2: I'm definitely more passive in arm a person of faith,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like sometimes it's not your door you

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Speaker 2: earth to open or to bang on. So I do

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Speaker 2: kind of wait for things to come to me, and

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Speaker 2: things do come to me, thank God. I feel like

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Speaker 2: I'm really busy, and I'm always saying, Okay, I got

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Speaker 2: to slow down. I got to slow down. About ten

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Speaker 2: years ago, I tried to drop my schedule to three

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Speaker 2: days a week because I really wanted to be in

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Speaker 2: my kid's life and I have two daughters and I

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Speaker 2: had to I wanted to go pick them up from

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Speaker 2: school like three days a week and just you know,

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Speaker 2: be hanging out of the house while they're doing the homework.

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Speaker 2: I just didn't want to be in sets every day.

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Speaker 2: So I've tried to stick to that. But what happens

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Speaker 2: is that suddenly one week I'll be working six days

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Speaker 2: and then I'm like, okay, slow down, next week three days.

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Speaker 2: So I would never say that I'm lost for being

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Speaker 2: able to find work. It's always being offered to me.

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Speaker 2: And have a lot of friendships in this business, long

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Speaker 2: standing friendships, and people come back, so I don't think

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Speaker 2: I feel I don't feel like I'm hustling. I could

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Speaker 2: probably hustle for like bigger, more high profile artists and

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Speaker 2: seek them out, but I'm kind of a strange fish,

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Speaker 2: and that I really love working with new artists or

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Speaker 2: up and coming artists. And I've worked with a lot

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Speaker 2: of stars and you find yourself waiting at the studio

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Speaker 2: for two hours for them to show up. But it

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Speaker 2: was more exciting working with them before they became stars.

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Speaker 2: But I'm busy now.

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Speaker 3: If someone wants to work with you, do they contact

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Speaker 3: you directly or do you have a manager or an

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Speaker 3: attorney who filters?

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Speaker 2: So I very closely with my partner in crime, Donna

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Speaker 2: Cassain at Reservoir Media. I have ADMIN through that company,

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Speaker 2: and Donna is way more than just admin. She's really

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Speaker 2: my publisher and we've been working together, oh like sixteen years,

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Speaker 2: very closely. So on my Instagram and TikTok, I think

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Speaker 2: I have like Donn reach out to Donna Cassain, and

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Speaker 2: then it started to get a bit overwhelming. So at

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Speaker 2: that point I put like an email up. I don't

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Speaker 2: have management. I just manage myself because I know my

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Speaker 2: schedule better than anyone and it's just quicker for me.

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Speaker 2: And so between Donna and I, we we deal with

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Speaker 2: it with everything. People can direct directly email me like

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Speaker 2: they see me on TikTok, and people will send me stuff.

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Speaker 2: I found some incredible stuff. You know, amazing artists who

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Speaker 2: want to work with me and they've got nothing going on.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I want to sign them. Sometimes I'm just like,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is my fee, and quite often they

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Speaker 2: want to pay it again, as I say, they have

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Speaker 2: to be a ma but just me and Donna really

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Speaker 2: working it all out, Okay.

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Speaker 3: Frequently there's negotiation involved. Do you do your own negotiation?

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Speaker 2: I do? I do everything.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm an artist and I say I want

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Speaker 3: to pay you X, and in your mind you say,

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Speaker 3: well I'll do it for two X. Do you then

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Speaker 3: say well I'll do it for three X. What's your

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Speaker 3: negotiation technique?

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Speaker 2: I mean, if they say, you know, they want to

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Speaker 2: do one song, then I'm pretty much just going to

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Speaker 2: charge my fee. But if they say they're going to

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Speaker 2: do three songs, I might lower my fee by five

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Speaker 2: grand a track.

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Speaker 3: Okay. What I'm trying to say is, let's say you

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Speaker 3: quote a fee and they say, oh on, I want

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Speaker 3: to pay that. You're you charge five grand? I want

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Speaker 3: to pay three grand? What would you say?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: If I really love then I might say, okay, that's fine,

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Speaker 2: but can we do three songs at three grand?

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Speaker 3: Let me change it a little bit. You're obviously talented

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Speaker 3: on the creative end. How good a business person are you?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've managed myself for the last fifteen years

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Speaker 2: and I feel like I've done pretty well, so I

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Speaker 2: think I'm good at business. I had to become a

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Speaker 2: business person. I had to.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you're with Reservoir, which is a relatively new company.

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Speaker 3: How'd you end up with Reservoir?

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Speaker 2: Well, what happened was I finally managed to get out

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Speaker 2: of my record publishing deal with Universal and Donna Cassein

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Speaker 2: had been at Universal. She kind of inherited us after

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Speaker 2: I can't remember his name now, but he left the company,

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Speaker 2: the head who'd signed us when I was in the matrix,

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Speaker 2: So Donna was there. We started working together. My contract

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Speaker 2: then came to an end, and I was like, let

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Speaker 2: me just do my own publishing company myself. And I

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Speaker 2: get this call from Donner and she says, Babe, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to work at this company called Reservoir Media. It's

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Speaker 2: run by this incredible woman, Golna closure Shahi, and it's

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Speaker 2: female run publishing company. And what do you think? And

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Speaker 2: I said, when do we start? Actually, I couldn't be

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Speaker 2: without Donna. She was so amazing and just the thought

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Speaker 2: of getting to be with all these incredible women, Faith Newman, Golna.

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Speaker 2: It's incredible there. And I get to talk to Donna

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Speaker 2: like every week and just kind of plot what we're

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Speaker 2: up to. It's a great company, and I think they're

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Speaker 2: like just doing amazing things, expanding all over the place,

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Speaker 2: buying catalog they have, They bought Christmas records. It's like,

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's any stopping them. Actually.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you say you've got out of your deal with Universal?

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Speaker 3: Is that an admin deal? Did you have a regular

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Speaker 3: publishing deal?

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Speaker 2: Now? That was a traditional publishing deal?

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Speaker 3: Okay, So when you had success with the Matrix, gigantic

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Speaker 3: success with Avril Levine, did you own your publishing then

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Speaker 3: or were you with a company?

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Speaker 2: Actually, I was on Warner Chapel when we wrote the

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Speaker 2: Avil stuff, and then Scott Francis that was it signed

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Speaker 2: us to Universal. We actually sort of publishing deal ended

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Speaker 2: about six months after the Avil record blew up, which

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Speaker 2: was fantastic, and of course our manager at the time

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Speaker 2: steamed in and got us a big publishing deal with

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Speaker 2: Scott's at Universal, and of course that you know, it

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Speaker 2: took a long time to play out and pay all

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Speaker 2: the money back. But once it was done, I kind

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Speaker 2: of felt really strongly that I didn't want to do

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Speaker 2: another publishing deal.

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Speaker 3: Okay, the songs that you wrote with Universal, do they

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Speaker 3: still have ownership interest in those? Or do you own

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Speaker 3: those songs one hundred percent? Now?

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Speaker 2: Ooh gosh. I would say they're slowly coming back to me.

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Speaker 2: Some of them are still owned by Universal, and they're

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Speaker 2: slowly coming back to me, and then I take them

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Speaker 2: over to Reservoir as they come back to me.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So someone starting out might say, Okay, if I

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Speaker 3: write the songs, I get one hundred percent. If I

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Speaker 3: make a publishing deal, I get an advance, but the

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Speaker 3: publishing company's going to have an ownership in that. Everything's negotiable.

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Speaker 3: What would you tell a young person?

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Speaker 2: But I think if you're a young songwriter trying to

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Speaker 2: make it, I think the reason to sign a publishing

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Speaker 2: deal is one because you really need some money. Like

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Speaker 2: obviously that's the first thing. If you really don't need

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Speaker 2: the money, then you don't really you shouldn't really do

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Speaker 2: a publishing deal, do an admin deal. But I also

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Speaker 2: feel that probably having a good team is important to you.

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Speaker 2: Having Donner at Universal, they were like pushing me into

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Speaker 2: the right sessions, and that's invaluable to have a team

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Speaker 2: that's like working with you and getting you in the

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Speaker 2: right rooms. So they're the reasons to do a publishing deal.

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Speaker 2: But if you're already in the right rooms, and you

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Speaker 2: have a hit already and you're kind of on the

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Speaker 2: going up, and you don't really need the money, then

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Speaker 2: I would definitely just do an admin deal.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you said at the top of the hour here

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Speaker 3: you tell everybody to be a producer. You started off

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Speaker 3: as an artist. How did you learn to become a producer,

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Speaker 3: And in your eyes, what does a producer actually do well?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's many different ways producers work.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like Rick Rubin doesn't work the board right,

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Speaker 2: and he's not an recording engineer. He's got excellent taste

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Speaker 2: and that's worked out to be very beneficial for the

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Speaker 2: artists he's worked with. But I started out when I

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Speaker 2: was seventeen getting signed to E and my publishing by

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Speaker 2: Alan Jacobs. And the first thing they did was they

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Speaker 2: bought me a four track recording studio for my bedroom.

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Speaker 2: Then I got an eight track recording studio, and then

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Speaker 2: I got a sixteen track recording studio, and I would

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Speaker 2: sit at home and I would just knock out my

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Speaker 2: own little demos. So I felt like I kind of

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Speaker 2: knew how to work all the gear and do all

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Speaker 2: the programming. As I progressed in the music industry, I

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Speaker 2: started to find it annoying that I was looking to

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Speaker 2: for loops and kick drums and snare sounds, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, hang on, what I'm really really good at

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Speaker 2: is lyrics and melody and chords, and it was slowing

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Speaker 2: me down. And so when I and also being a

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Speaker 2: female artist, you know, suddenly you're put with all the biggest,

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Speaker 2: coolest producers. And I was eager to learn when I

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Speaker 2: came to America, So I wasn't going to say I

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Speaker 2: need to produce myself, but I felt like I've always

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Speaker 2: been a producer, and I've always been involved in the

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Speaker 2: sonic bed of a track of is the groove right

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Speaker 2: to me? As soon as we've written the song, getting

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Speaker 2: the groove right is so important, So I feel like

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Speaker 2: I've always been a producer. After my career as an

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Speaker 2: artist started to kind of wane a bit, that was

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Speaker 2: when I started the Matrix, and what I found was

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Speaker 2: having a team of people who made up for my strengths,

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Speaker 2: like Scott Spark was an absolute genius programmer and a

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Speaker 2: brilliant piano player and an arranger. He had a degree

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Speaker 2: in arranging. And my ex husband, Graham Edwards had been

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Speaker 2: like he played with Mick Jagger and Jeff Beck, and

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Speaker 2: he really knew how to routine bands, and he'd done

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Speaker 2: a lot of production himself. So I tell people like,

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Speaker 2: if you're like, at some point, I kind of really

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Speaker 2: lost interest in doing all the tech side of it,

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Speaker 2: of producing the tracks and building the tracks. But I

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Speaker 2: was sitting there the whole time saying, hmm, that's not

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Speaker 2: quite right, Let's do this. How about a keyboard sound

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Speaker 2: like this? So I feel like I'm just incredibly involved

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Speaker 2: with the production, and now today that's mainly what I do.

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Speaker 2: It's like everything I do is, but I have a

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Speaker 2: co producer almost on every session I'm in because I

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Speaker 2: don't want to be torn between making a great song

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Speaker 2: and trying to think about the production at the same time.

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Speaker 2: So I'm kind of jumping between yeah, how about this

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Speaker 2: idea and then like, okay, how about this MIDI I

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Speaker 2: work with this guy, Middie Jones a lot and He'll

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Speaker 2: be like, literally, we call it building the plane while

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Speaker 2: we're flying the plane. It's all happening at the same

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Speaker 2: time today, and everything takes honestly like one day, Like

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Speaker 2: we go in at one o'clock and by seven o'clock

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Speaker 2: we have something that sounds like a record written and produced.

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Speaker 2: To me that it all comes from the song. If

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Speaker 2: the song's no good, then I'm just we're polishing a turd.

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Speaker 2: So I try to focus in the session on the

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Speaker 2: song being amazing, and then I'm running over and like

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Speaker 2: talking about Chap used to go here, We need to

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Speaker 2: how about this? How about we lay out on this point.

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Speaker 2: So I'm very involved with the production. It's so important

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So you were saying you're in the studio today.

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Speaker 3: You used to work with your ex husband in a

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Speaker 3: third guy Spock, you're working today you literally are you

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Speaker 3: saying about working with an engineer or you literally have

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Speaker 3: a co producer in every session.

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Speaker 2: I have about five different co producers that I love,

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Speaker 2: So I probably have like five different records being made

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Speaker 2: around town every day, and I will be on the

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Speaker 2: phone or popping in to hear what's going on. And

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Speaker 2: you know, after that initial day where you kind of

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Speaker 2: take a shot for an artist, and normally it's on spec.

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Speaker 2: By the way, you don't get paid up front. And

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I said to my husband,

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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm on chopped sometimes, you know, where

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Speaker 2: the three people have all the ingredients and you've got

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Speaker 2: to like present your dish, and whoever's dish sounds the

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Speaker 2: best gets to be the winner. It's kind of like that.

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Speaker 2: And so sorry, what was the question again, Bob? I

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Speaker 2: lost it.

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Speaker 3: No, no, you gave a great answer. But today, literally

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Speaker 3: as we speak, do you have multiple sessions happening in town?

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Speaker 2: Yes, right on my way here, I was just talking

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Speaker 2: to two different producers about what we need to do

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Speaker 2: on the track. Okay, on two different tracks. And then

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Speaker 2: I have like three different records going on for my

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Speaker 2: daughters that I'm helping oversee. And yeah, it's music, music, music.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is interesting because most people who had success

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Speaker 3: prior to the last ten years, they have trouble getting

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Speaker 3: work at all. And you're saying that you know you're working,

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Speaker 3: you know you've got a plethora of work.

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Speaker 2: I do, I really do. I feel so blessed to

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Speaker 2: say that, and I I'm not even like again, I've

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Speaker 2: said to my husband, shall I get a manager so

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Speaker 2: I can really organize this stuff? And he says, what

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Speaker 2: are you going to do? How can you work anymore?

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Speaker 2: It just comes to me naturally the things I want

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Speaker 2: to work with work on, and I don't. When you've

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Speaker 2: been doing something for this long, it's like a hard

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Speaker 2: cruise ship to turn around. I don't know how I'm

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Speaker 2: going to stop. And as long as amazing artists come

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Speaker 2: to me, I think I'm getting better as a songwriter.

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Speaker 2: So I think it might be a bit of a joke.

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Speaker 2: I might be in my you know, seventies and still

385
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Speaker 2: working with young artists, but it's still exciting for me,

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Speaker 2: and I don't want to stop.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's go a little bit more micro. Somebody approaches

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Speaker 3: you and they say, I want to work with you

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Speaker 3: forgetting the money. What's the first thing you say to them?

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Speaker 2: I have to listen and see if I like their voice,

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Speaker 2: and see if I think they've got some real talent.

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Speaker 3: When people send you something, how many people send piano

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Speaker 3: or guitar and vocal rough demos? How many people send

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Speaker 3: pretty fully fleshed what tends to come over the transfer?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: Quite Often it's artists who've already got stuff released. So

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Speaker 2: I'll say, let me just go and check you out,

398
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Speaker 2: and I'll go to Spotify as soon as I'll just

399
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Speaker 2: google them find who they are. If Donna sends me something,

400
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Speaker 2: do you want to work with this person, I'll go

401
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Speaker 2: on Spotify and have a listen, and if I like

402
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Speaker 2: it and they sound good, I'll take a shot. I'll

403
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Speaker 2: take a day.

404
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Speaker 3: Okay, a little bit slower forgetting the money. Once again,

405
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Speaker 3: you listen to it, you say, this is interesting, I

406
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Speaker 3: want to work with you. A financial deal is made,

407
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Speaker 3: what's the next step.

408
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Speaker 2: There's no financial deal made at first, it's just literally,

409
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Speaker 2: will you take a shot? And if I am, I

410
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Speaker 2: have to be blown away. It has to be really

411
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Speaker 2: really interesting. There's just so much music out there, so

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Speaker 2: it has to be really amazing. I have to go ooh,

413
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Speaker 2: I could help. I think that's the most important thing

414
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Speaker 2: is I could help this person get to the next level,

415
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Speaker 2: or I could. I can see what they're angling at,

416
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Speaker 2: but I don't think they have a hit. I feel

417
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Speaker 2: like that's kind of my special sources that I've helped

418
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Speaker 2: find the key to the door for a few people

419
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Speaker 2: like Avril Hillary Duff her first single, Jason Moraz his

420
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Speaker 2: first single with a remedy, but I feel like that's

421
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Speaker 2: my and the Matrix Special source was being able to

422
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Speaker 2: kind of say, okay, where does this need to go?

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Speaker 2: So that's my first thing is can I help? And

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Speaker 2: after that, once I've listened to the music, then let's

425
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Speaker 2: set up a session. And so I look at my

426
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Speaker 2: calendar and they look at their calendar, and we find

427
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Speaker 2: a day. I pick one of my co producers that

428
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Speaker 2: I think would really suit you know, this style of music.

429
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Speaker 2: Do you want to do it? I say to my

430
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Speaker 2: cop do you want to do a day on spec?

431
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Speaker 2: You know? And we show up at one o'clock and

432
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Speaker 2: by seven o'clock we've we've taken our shot. And that's

433
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 2: when you hope everyone says, oh my god, this is amazing.

434
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 2: This has to go on the record. How much you're

435
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 2: going to charge us? And that's when you make a deal.

436
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 3: Okay, let's just assume you hear something. Let's call it

437
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 3: an established artist. You can go on Spotify, you can

438
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 3: hear their past material. You say I want to take

439
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 3: a shot. Do you then say send me what you've got? Well?

440
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: Yes, if they've had stuff released. Then they're working on

441
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 2: a new project. I'll say, I'm so interested to hear

442
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 2: what this new EP or this new album is. Where

443
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 2: are you heading with this? And so I'll have a

444
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 2: listen to it, and if I love it, then like

445
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 2: I'm in, you know. And sometimes it's so good, I'm like,

446
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 2: oh wow, I gotta I gotta come with my a

447
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: game today and I love it. I'm so excited to

448
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 2: go in. I'm just so excited to know the first thing.

449
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: I'll say someone answers to what do you what do

450
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: you work on yesterday? And if they say, ah, oh,

451
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: we just did this with so and so, so and so,

452
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my goodness, let's hear it. I hear it,

453
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, okay, I got to beat this one.

454
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 3: Okay, wait wait. Let's just assume you've decided to work

455
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 3: someone sends you a demo. Will you react to that

456
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: demo before you get in the studio. Will you say, well,

457
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 3: I think it needs this or ex or why? Or

458
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: do you wait until you're in the studio?

459
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 2: Well, are you saying that a demo just for me

460
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 2: to produce their song that's already existing? Because nobody's really

461
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: coming to me to produce something they've already written, and

462
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: I'm not really that interested in it. I'm a songwriter, okay, okay,

463
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: that's for sure.

464
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: So when somebody walks in the front door, there is.

465
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: No song, no nothing. We have a conversation, We have

466
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 2: a cup of tea and talk about Okay, who's going

467
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 2: through what? Let's like. I also like to bring two

468
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: or three concepts to the table. It's always been that

469
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: way for me. I like, I think it's plight if

470
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 2: an artist is coming to spend the day with you

471
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: and you just say I got nothing, I feel it's

472
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: a little rude because they've taken the time to be

473
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: with you. So I like to have three things up

474
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 2: my sleeve, and then the first thing to be polite

475
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 2: is to say what do you want to do today?

476
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 2: And listen to them, And quite often the artist is like,

477
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 2: I've just been through a breakup. I just feel so awful,

478
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: I just feel so nervous, I can't hardly breathe. I'm like,

479
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 2: do you want to write about it? Yes? Then I

480
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: just keep my three ideas up my sleeve for another

481
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 2: session with someone else. And if they say I've got nothing,

482
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 2: I'm completely lost, I don't know what I'm doing. Have

483
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 2: you got anything? That's when I'll bring out something, and hopefully,

484
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: more often than not, they like it because I've really

485
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 2: listened to what they do and I've tried to cater

486
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: to something I spend my mornings. I'll work out in

487
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: the morning, and then before the session, I'll sit at

488
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 2: the piano and I'll try and come up with something

489
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: that sounds exactly in the vein of what they're doing

490
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 2: and their vocal range too. I try and figure out

491
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 2: where's their vocal range. Oh, this chorus, I'll start with,

492
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 2: like a chorus that will hit their perfect money notes

493
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 2: and their timber of their voice. So then when I

494
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 2: play them my little ideas I have up my sleeve,

495
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: they're often like, oh, I can see myself singing it,

496
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: you know. So it's always very exciting because you never know.

497
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 2: Sometimes occasionally I've played my rough and I'm only talking

498
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 2: about like a verse and a pre chorus and a chorus.

499
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 2: It would be really presumptuous to say, and here's a

500
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 2: whole song with a second verse and a bridge written,

501
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 2: So I like to maybe it's just a chorus. But

502
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 2: usually I have a little verse to go with it.

503
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes they hate it and they say no,

504
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 2: I don't like that, and I'm like, okay, great. Then

505
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 2: they can be a little uncomfortable and you just have

506
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: to So the other way we start, it's okay, any

507
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 2: songs that you love right now, tracks that you're just

508
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: as so inspired by, And they'd be like, I love

509
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 2: this track by so and so, so and so and

510
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: this one of the So we'll have a listening session

511
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 2: at the top of the the session and I'm like,

512
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: something will calm, like my co producer partner and I

513
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: will sit like maybe with a bass and piano and

514
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 2: I'll just be playing. And then suddenly the artists will say, Okay,

515
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: I like that. That feels like me, and we go

516
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: from there and I and then I always have a

517
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: list of fifteen titles, not just the you know, that's

518
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: just my backup, is fifteen titles that I think are

519
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: hot with a little bit of a concept of what

520
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: it's about. Like for instance, I have a song called

521
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: Last Hurrah that I did with Bebie, and I took

522
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: into the session these lines that I had. I'd pretty

523
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: much I call it a song map. I teach this

524
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: on my masterclass so I i'd do you want me

525
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: to go into this bob. It's a long story, okay.

526
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: So basically, one day my husband said to me, I'm

527
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: going to the store. What do you want? And I said,

528
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: I have a pine to pistachio Hargenedaz And he's like, well,

529
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: I thought you were on a no sugar diet. And

530
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, last hurrah, ooh voice my memos on my

531
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: phone and my notes lyric notes, last Hurrah. And I

532
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 2: was like, hmmm, I'm done with the drinking, I'm done

533
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: with the smoking, I'm done with the playing, I'm done

534
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: with the joking. And I was like, oh, that's a

535
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: good verse. So I then thought, oh, like, what's this

536
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: song about. It's not about hargain Das and my my

537
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 2: weak wills, so what is it about? And I said, well,

538
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: maybe it's about how everyone in life has something they're

539
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: struggling with and we all put it off and put

540
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: it off and put it off. And so I was like, Okay,

541
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: so the verse is going to be I'm done with

542
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: the drinking, I'm done with the smoking, I'm done with

543
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: the playing, I'm done with the joking. And then I'm

544
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: done with the ladies. I'm done with the fellas just saying.

545
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: Then I was, and the pre chorus has got to

546
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 2: say something like, I know we've said it all before,

547
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: but would it hurt to do it just once more?

548
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: And then I was like, then the chorus has to hit.

549
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: The chorus is going to say this is my last Hurrah.

550
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: And then I was like, that's going to be a

551
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: cool chorus. But that hurrah word is really cool. So now,

552
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: because a post chorus is, post hook is a big

553
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: thing today. So I was like, I'm going to make

554
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: a post hook out of that word hurrah hurrah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

555
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 2: something like that. So I go into the session. I

556
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: have not got a melody, and I said, Bibi nick

557
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: long and wonderful producer Andrew, Oh my god, it's the

558
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 2: problem with getting old Bob. I can't remember his last name.

559
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: I'll let you know. I said, listen, Biby, how about this.

560
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: I got this verse. I'm done with the drinking, I'm

561
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 2: done with the smoking. I'm done with the playing, I'm

562
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 2: done with the joking. She because I love it, and

563
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: I said, then we do it another second half of

564
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: that verse. Then we go into the pre I know

565
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: it all before, but would it hurt to do it

566
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: all once more? This is my last hurrah? And she's like,

567
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: oh my god, And I said, we do a whole

568
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: chorus after that, and at the end of the chorus

569
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: we go hurrah yah. Yeah. Yeah. So without even having

570
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: a single melody, I could pretty much show them the

571
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: song map, and we wrote that song in about half

572
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: an hour, the four of us, and it became a

573
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: single for her and I kind of sketched out like

574
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: the goalposts, I knew where to kick between.

575
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 3: Okay, just to stopping you for one second. Four point

576
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 3: people are involved. How do you split up ownership?

577
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: Four ways? Okay, because honestly, everybody was so integral to

578
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: the melodies and building the track is really really important.

579
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: I mean, right, didn't it used to be just lyrics

580
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 2: and melody were important. I think in the days of

581
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 2: Scott Storch, when suddenly he was doing tracks like in

582
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: the Club for fifty cent and the track was a

583
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: star before you'd even put anything on it. That was

584
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: a new way of writing for me, by the way,

585
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: But again, fifteen years ago started to be so interesting.

586
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: I'd walk in and the track sounds like a fucking

587
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 2: hit already, and I'm like, it's kind of like sex

588
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: that's already started and you have to jump in. It

589
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: was new to me rather than just sitting at the piano,

590
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: and I feel like I got really good at it

591
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: just jumping on in and coming up with hot melodies

592
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: and lyrics on top of a blinding track. So I

593
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: think everyone it's like a soup and everyone's involved, and

594
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: I'm happy to split it four ways. Of course, now

595
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: it gets kind of crazy because after you've written that

596
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: initial day, suddenly some star will get involved and they

597
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: have their team, and that's how you end up with

598
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: ten writers on it. But initially I just split the

599
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: song between who's there on that day when we start

600
00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: writing it.

601
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,959
Speaker 3: So let's just assume you start at one pm. You

602
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: say you wrote that song in a half hour. What's

603
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 3: the longest it will take you to come up with

604
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: a song.

605
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's three hours. If I haven't got anything in

606
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: three hours, I'm going to call the session. I'm just

607
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: going to see no, I don't have the juice today,

608
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: And it very rarely happens. It just doesn't happen because

609
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: we're pros. You know, anyone who I know in this town,

610
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: who's used to doing stuff. Even if you come out

611
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: with I'm not saying everything I do is fantastic either,

612
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: but it's kind of a practice to learn how to

613
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: weave a song together and get it done. I like

614
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: to say that two hours is spent probably on writing

615
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: the song, and then two hours will be spent on

616
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: the vocal, and then probably another two hours will be

617
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: spent on brushing up the production. Because the artist is

618
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 2: going to want to go away with an MP three

619
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: at the end of the day and they are immediately

620
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: going to play it to their team. So I don't

621
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: like to leave until I have something that sounds like

622
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: a smash on that day. So I kind of divide

623
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: up the time like that. Very occasionally, I've been in

624
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: the session where it's just the songwriting's not going very well,

625
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: and it's just I would say it hasn't happened to

626
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: me for years that I haven't nailed it in the day,

627
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 2: You know, I don't. I'm not saying it's a smash,

628
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 2: but we get it done.

629
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 3: Let's say there's a male singer or female singer, that's

630
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 3: all they have. Will you hire musicians? How will that work?

631
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: You mean they don't play any instrument.

632
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 3: Well playing instruments, and there is no band.

633
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: Or that happens to me, that happens all the time.

634
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: That's why I pick co producers who are amazing instrumentalists,

635
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 2: you know, as otherwise I'd be doing it all myself

636
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 2: if I could, if I could play really, really well,

637
00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: I can play piano, but I'm no virtuoso and I

638
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 2: can't play guitar. It's just never been something I've got

639
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 2: my head around. So I'm definitely picking co producers that

640
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: can just fill in all the gaps. And you know,

641
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: I can do the vocal production. I used to do

642
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: that in the Matrix all Averrols vocals I recorded, comped

643
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: and tuned and consolidated, and nowadays can I still always

644
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 2: record the vocals and I like to camp them too.

645
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: It's really important to me. So when there's an artist

646
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: who doesn't care, it doesn't matter because my producer partner

647
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: and I are going to be actually coming up with

648
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 2: the sounds. Okay, well, very it's important to us that

649
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: the artist loves it.

650
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 3: I understand, but you're not saying I'm working with this person.

651
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 3: So I'm going to call in a guitarist and a drummer.

652
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: But I do because I just think there's like amazing people.

653
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: There's a guy I'm working with right now called Lowell Wolf.

654
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 2: He's new and and I found him through an artist

655
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: I was working with. She hired him to do a

656
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: gig and he was so impressed of I hired him

657
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: to do a gig when I played at Hotel Cafe

658
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: and he played with me. And then just the other

659
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 2: day I had in come and play on this Jasmine

660
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: Bean record I'm working on for Interscope and Corky James.

661
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: He played on all the Matrix stuff. Incredible. I'll hire

662
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 2: him and he's so great. I can send him my

663
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 2: record and say I want some stuff like this, I

664
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: want it to sound like this, and he does all

665
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 2: his studio with all his amps and sends it right

666
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 2: back to me. Victor Druso plays drums with Alanis Morissette now,

667
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: who's Macy Gray's drummer. Same thing. He has his own

668
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: studio set up. Victor, I need drums like this. We've

669
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 2: already programmed the drums to be what we want, but

670
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 2: we just want the real live thing. So yes, we

671
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: do hire people and violinists. Bianca McClure I use all

672
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: the time.

673
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: I have some false they're not in the studio. You

674
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 3: send them the track, they work on it, they send

675
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 3: it back.

676
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: Sometimes like Lowell Wolf came in the other day and

677
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 2: he bought his little pedal board and we did it there.

678
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: That's not done on the day of writing, though, the

679
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 2: day of the writing where we do the sketch of

680
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: the whole thing. So at the end of the day

681
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: we kind of have what sounds like a hit. If

682
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 2: the label or their part of business managers say we

683
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: love it, then the next step is, let's put some

684
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: violin on this. This was some real drums on it,

685
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: and generally we go out for the real drums, and

686
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 2: but violin will bring them in. Guitarists normally we bring

687
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: them in, so that will be another day. We'll take

688
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 2: a day on production once we've got the gig Okay.

689
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 3: Now, in the old days, these records were cut soup

690
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 3: to nuts in big studios, maybe in the smaller room.

691
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 3: Then it became we'll cut basics in the big studio,

692
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: we'll do the rest at home. Where are you cutting

693
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 3: this stuff?

694
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: Bo It's so strange, like it's so such a long

695
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 2: time since I've been in a studio where there's a

696
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: huge SSL desk. It's just not it's not needed anymore.

697
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 3: You know.

698
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 2: The song I'm Not Like Alice that I did with

699
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: my girls, that was cut in my daughter's bedroom. We

700
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 2: have like a studio set up in there. Everybody's just

701
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: working at home. The quality is so good today, I believe.

702
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: I'm sure Barbara Streisen is still in those big rooms.

703
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 2: But like today, with the way the businesses, we're just

704
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: working in. Sometimes it's really nice places like publishing studios,

705
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: but most of the co producers I work with John Levine,

706
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: they have like amazing home studios, getting garage conversions, and

707
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: just like and I would rather be there. In fact,

708
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: every produce I co produce with wants to be on

709
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: their own gear. The last thing they want to do

710
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 2: is have to go down to Capitol Records and cut something.

711
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: The string sessions are done there. Of course, you know

712
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 2: you need those rooms with the big for that, but

713
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: not for what we're doing.

714
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: And what about getting the sound of drums.

715
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: Real drums, Well that's where we do go out, and

716
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: like Victor has his own room that's tuned just to

717
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 2: sound fantastic, so we will go out for drums. Definitely.

718
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 2: John Levine has drum kick because he plays drums set

719
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: up in his live room, which is in a garage conversion,

720
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: and he just hops right up on the drums and yeah, okay, amazing.

721
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 3: The tr eight oh eight Roland came out really hit

722
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 3: it stride in the early eighties, then disappeared, and it's like,

723
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 3: on every record, what's your take with that sound?

724
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Honestly, Bob, that is way above my pay grade.

725
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: I have no idea what you're talking about.

726
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 3: Okay, you get those faking in claps. You hear them

727
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 3: on both pop records and country records. They're set to

728
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 3: a rhythm. They're quite obviously synthesized.

729
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not aware of that. Again, that stuff that

730
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: I stopped doing years ago, of looking for sounds and

731
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: looking for drum loops that sound cool. I'm just like

732
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: to my co producer, I feel like it should be

733
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: like this, the groove should be this kind of feel.

734
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 2: Can you make that happen for me? And I wouldn't

735
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: be able to say, call up that sound on this keyboard.

736
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: That's just not my bag. I'm too deep in the

737
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: lyrics with the artists at that point. Normally, as I

738
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 2: saw Tody, we're building the plane while we're flying the plane.

739
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 3: Okay, so you're a pro, you're never gonna do something bad.

740
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 3: But well, no, listen, it's a nature of the game

741
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 3: that's not only a compliment, it's a nature of being

742
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 3: a pro. Do you know when you have an eleven?

743
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: Let's be very clear, eleven's are inherently weird. No one

744
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 3: can create eleven every day.

745
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 2: But it's so funny because I just talked to a

746
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: manager of an artist I'm working with this morning and

747
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: he said, this song's an eleven, and I've never heard

748
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 2: some had somebody say that to me. So it's fun

749
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 2: so weird that you would say that today, and I

750
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: I would say that most sessions I go to, I

751
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: feel like it's a nine, like I'm really hitting hard.

752
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: I'm so disappointed if it's It doesn't often happen to

753
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 2: me that I feel it's a dud anymore. But it

754
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: will be that production and that other day that we

755
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: take to brush it all up that can make it

756
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: into an eleven.

757
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 3: No, But my question is a little bit different. There's

758
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 3: a Eureka moment where you go, holy fuck, this is

759
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 3: just fantastic. Do you know. You know there are people

760
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 3: who say I made the record, I had no idea

761
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 3: this would be a hit.

762
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 2: You know.

763
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: I'll give you a different example that's dated. Talking to

764
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 3: Al Cooper produced Leonard Skinnyard and they came in a

765
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 3: year before the record was released. They called up and

766
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: they said, I want to cut a song. They cut home.

767
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 3: They cut Sweet Home Alabama a year before it came out.

768
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 3: I said, Dal did you know it was a hit?

769
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 3: And he goes, it was sweet Home Alabama. Do you

770
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 3: ever have that feeling like, wow, this is amazing.

771
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did, honestly with the April Levine stuff. When

772
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 2: we did Complicated, I was like, holy shit, this is

773
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: a hit. And I remember Graham's dad playing it to

774
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,479
Speaker 2: him and us being so excited. He said, I don't

775
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 2: think that's going to cut the mustard. We were like

776
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: so disappointed and they were like, no, this is a hit.

777
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: And Skater Boy I had the same feeling about it,

778
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 2: just oh my goodness, I'm with you. I did not know.

779
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: I did not know that that song. And my manager

780
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 2: at the time said, I just think it's a nice

781
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,439
Speaker 2: album track. That one took me by surprise, that it's

782
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 2: kind of beloved by a lot of people. I look,

783
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: I even put a tattoo on my wrist of it

784
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 2: because it's actually my favorite song that I've written. It

785
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: just meant so much to me. It's kind of dark

786
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: and sad, and I didn't expect it to hit so hard.

787
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 2: So that's a rare one, but quite often, like last Hurrah,

788
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this is a smash. I wished

789
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 2: it had gone higher on the charts, but I think

790
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 2: it kind of made a video that was like a

791
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: priest in a bath with an upside down cross smoking

792
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 2: a cigarette with a nun adjusting her habit, and I

793
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 2: was just like, I think maybe the video was a

794
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: little too edgy to make that song push into the

795
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: top five at top forty. But I knew it was

796
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 2: a hit when we wrote it. And right now I

797
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 2: have about five songs. I have this song coming out

798
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 2: called Sweat Tomorrow Night with Hayden Henderson Thursday night. It

799
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 2: comes out nine pm, and I think it's a smash.

800
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 2: And my daughter's next single, boy Sober, comes out again

801
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 2: Thursday night. I think it's a smash. I I'm so

802
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: excited about the records I'm working on. Yeah, I feel

803
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 2: there smashes and the day he wrote it, I was like, damn.

804
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 3: You mentioned it. Tattoo. It's very visible. This is not

805
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 3: a video podcast, but it's very visible to me inside

806
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 3: your right wrist. Yeah, is that your only tattoo?

807
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 2: It's my only one. When I went through my divorce,

808
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm going to get I'm with you put

809
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: on my wrist because it's just me. It's just me,

810
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: myself and I there's another song we wrote. And then

811
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: I became a Christian in two thousand and nine and

812
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: I realized, no, you're saying to God I'm with you.

813
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: It's a decision you make, and he says it back

814
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,439
Speaker 2: to you, I'm with you. So it meant so much

815
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 2: to me, and that when I put the tattoo on me,

816
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 2: it wasn't just about me. I'm alone and it's just

817
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 2: me against the world. And then I thought, you know

818
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 2: how nice I put this on my wrist because I

819
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 2: really feel as a human being, I want to say

820
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: to artists or just other human beings in general, I'm

821
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 2: with you. Let me just let me just sit with

822
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 2: you and we'll try and work it out whatever you're

823
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: going through and put it into a song or just

824
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: have a conversation as humans together. So I felt very

825
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 2: comfortable putting that on. It's my favorite song I've ever written.

826
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's a huge, great, big tattoo. It's no

827
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 2: hiding it.

828
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: So you talk about working with your husband and then

829
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 3: getting a divorce. Was a divorce caused by working together

830
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 3: all the time or this business? Were those contributing factors?

831
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 2: I think? So? I mean, I got together with my

832
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 2: ex husband when I was nineteen, I moved in with him,

833
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 2: and I was with him until I was forty two.

834
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 2: It's a good kick of the ball, right, And we

835
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: had a very successful marriage, and we have two amazing children,

836
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: and we created all these other babies with our songs.

837
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: And I think just people grow apart and probably like

838
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: you know, like me rolling over in bed and saying

839
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: to him, what about that bridge? Do you think the

840
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 2: last line could be better? You know, I'm kind of

841
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 2: intense about music and both of us. Graham is now

842
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 2: married to a lovely lady, Sarah, who's not in music,

843
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: and my husband's a business guy and a golfer and

844
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 2: an actor. Funnily enough, all three things. And it's actually

845
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 2: refreshing to come home after doing music all day to

846
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 2: someone who doesn't particularly want to hear all about it.

847
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 2: And it was really difficult for Graham and I to

848
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 2: just we lived and breathed it, and sometimes like after

849
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 2: the session, the bands would come back to our house

850
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 2: and then we'd party until like two am, talking about

851
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 2: music and playing songs around the pool. And I just

852
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: think Graham and I grew apart, and we're great friends

853
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: and appreciate everything that happened with us, but we just

854
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: grew apart.

855
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 3: And how did you meet your new husband?

856
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: I met him on a movie set, one of my

857
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: really good friends inviting me to go down and see

858
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: her filming, and when I was there, I met him

859
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: and we've been together ever since.

860
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go back to the records. You're talking about hits.

861
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 3: The business has completely changed, certainly from the eighties to

862
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 3: the first decade of this century. It was we lived

863
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 3: to a great degree in a monoculture, certainly in the

864
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 3: days of MTV, where if a song was a hit,

865
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 3: it was ubiquitous, as on MTV, it was on Top

866
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 3: forty radio, it might even slip over to other formats.

867
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 3: Today there's the Spotify Top fifty. Terrestrial radio reaches a

868
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 3: lot of people, but has never been less powerful. And

869
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 3: in addition, there are a lot of successful songs that

870
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 3: are not on the Spotify top fifty. To what degree

871
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 3: do your clients and yourself focus on those are the

872
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 3: hits the Spotify top fifty, they do have the greatest

873
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: market share. To what degree are you influenced in trying

874
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 3: to penetrate that.

875
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm always standing with the bat trying to

876
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 2: hit a home run. And it's different now because I

877
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: feel like if I wrote skate a Boy today, it

878
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: might just be a niche thing that blows up a

879
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 2: bit on TikTok. But we're talking about to go to top

880
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 2: forty radio now. You really need to have over one

881
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 2: hundred million streams before a record label is going to

882
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 2: put their muscle behind sending it to top forty radio. With

883
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 2: the independent promotion money they have to spend, right, it's

884
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: expensive and I feel like I just can't think about

885
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 2: it if I do that, So I'm just going to

886
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: get like miserable because it's so different today. Now, it's

887
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 2: just so different, and I don't I think also with

888
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 2: social media, like things become successful because you were a

889
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 2: girlfriend of somebody who like at another artist who was

890
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 2: a Disney star wrote about you. And these things help,

891
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: Like the tea as they call it, the gossip that

892
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 2: spreads around social media can really elevate a song. And

893
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 2: so it's a bit difficult to just come with a

894
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 2: good song and a good voice. You know, it's like,

895
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 2: what have you got going on in your life? Like

896
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 2: to make it interesting to people? You know?

897
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 3: Okay, there are hits songs today there are one chord.

898
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 3: There are hits that have very little melody, hits that

899
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 3: are to a beat. So these are big hits in

900
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 3: the Spotify top fifty. When you go into the studio,

901
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 3: you're starting from scratch. Are you saying I want to

902
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 3: fit in their quote into that matrix? Or do you

903
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 3: say I'm a traditional verse chorus person. I just want

904
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 3: to write the verse, chorus, bridge, et cetera. And if

905
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 3: you do it well enough, there's always room for it.

906
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 2: I don't really think there's any rules to songwriting. I've

907
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: written songs that are over one chord and things that

908
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 2: are almost like a rap, and I just don't think

909
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: there's any rules, and I'm down to adapt, you know,

910
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,879
Speaker 2: I really am. I had the number one hip hop

911
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 2: song with Me myself and I and I just feel

912
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 2: like I'm down. Let's evolve, evolve or die. You know,

913
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 2: I don't want to just come writing kind of classic

914
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 2: Elton John songs when I'm trying to fit into an

915
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 2: artist that's more techno or you know, you just got

916
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 2: to adapt no rule and that can be great. You know,

917
00:50:55,080 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: like something that's just so simple, remember liked How simple

918
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 2: was that? To me? That's just one of the biggest

919
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: smashes of all time.

920
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: Okay, we have the Beatles, we have classic rock. I

921
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 3: could go through every genre. I'm not going to. But

922
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 3: my point is, are you really as excited about today's

923
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 3: music as you were about the music of the past.

924
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am. I think there's an incredible music out there.

925
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of Chapel Roone right now. I

926
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 2: think she's amazing. I think her songwriting is fantastic. This guy,

927
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 2: Hayden Henderson, I think he's a great songwriter, great singer,

928
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 2: can really pull it off live. My daughters some of

929
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: the best singers I've ever heard, and they constantly impressed

930
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: me with their music and their songwriting ability is so amazing.

931
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 2: It's frustrating because I almost wish if it had been

932
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 2: back in the averall day, I really could have helped

933
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: them because all you needed was a smash song and

934
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 2: a label that believed in you, and then they go

935
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: to radio. And today that's just not the case. You know,

936
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 2: you've got to build it through social media. You had

937
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: the olden days, it was I guess when I was

938
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: an artist, we were sort of infantilized and that you

939
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 2: just show up at the studio with your music and

940
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: you make the music and then we'll take it from there.

941
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 2: And the record label did everything. And now the record

942
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:27,240
Speaker 2: label's like, that's fantastic, good job. Now go blow yourself

943
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: up on social media. So you have to be a

944
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: marketing genius today to be an artist, and you've got

945
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 2: to work at it every day. And that's what's frustrating

946
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 2: to me. It's like, whoa, it's not enough to just

947
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 2: be like imagine if Elton John had had to you know, now,

948
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: turn your phone on yourself and make short form content

949
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 2: every day and do five stories on TikTok, and that's

950
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 2: how you're going to break Elton. You know, it's a

951
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 2: different time, but I think the music's just as good.

952
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 2: I keep hearing them amazing music now.

953
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 3: You have a good presence on social media. Are you

954
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 3: someone who's always been into the internet or does someone say, hey,

955
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 3: you have to be on social media. What was the

956
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 3: start of this?

957
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm not at all like somebody who knew

958
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 2: about it or was interested. But what happened was my

959
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,479
Speaker 2: daughters once they got signed to Warners, well actually before

960
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 2: they got signed to Warners, they had a friend called

961
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: Sam Short, who's a wonderful artist that I work with

962
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 2: and she has a record coming out on Thursday night too,

963
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 2: called Supermodel that I didn't do, but she's amazing. And

964
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 2: Sam was helping my girls to get them used to

965
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: posting every single day. And she was ran at our

966
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 2: house one day filming them and she says to me, Lauren,

967
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 2: we'd be interested to hear about you. And I said,

968
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 2: who is we and she said all of us young

969
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: people in the business. She's like twenty one or something.

970
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 2: She said, all of us would love to hear from you.

971
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, I'm really behind the scenes, and

972
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 2: she said no seriously, And then she said the kindest

973
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 2: thing to me and always would be grateful. She said,

974
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 2: can I do it for you? And I said, what

975
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 2: do you mean? She said, I will come round once

976
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 2: a week and film you, and then I'll edit them

977
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 2: and I will do three posts a week and we'll

978
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,959
Speaker 2: just see how it goes. Oh my god, no one's

979
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: going to be interested. I think maybe two years before

980
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 2: I tried a couple of times and got like fifty

981
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,280
Speaker 2: views and stuff and retreated fast because I was nervous

982
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,919
Speaker 2: about it. So anyway, we do a calf of things.

983
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: She's just telling me point and she plays like complicated

984
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 2: above and a little box above my finger. I got like

985
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 2: four point nine million views, and then I do it

986
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,399
Speaker 2: like another one and get like, you know, three point

987
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 2: nine million views. I was like, okay. So then she

988
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 2: started saying to me, Okay, I'm going to give you

989
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 2: a list of what I think I I'll come round

990
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: to your garden. I'm just going to ask you questions

991
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 2: that we would want to know young people in the

992
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: music business, and I would just answer them and then

993
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 2: she'd edit it up for me. And I've been doing

994
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 2: it ever since. I do three a week, three posts

995
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 2: a week, and it took off on Instagram, and it

996
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 2: took off on TikTok, and it took off on YouTube.

997
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 2: So it's kind of part of my business now, while

998
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 2: I'm lying in bed three mornings a week, I take

999
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 2: the little thing. I have a folder with everything that

1000
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 2: we drop in, and it really does come down to

1001
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 2: me too, because it's like, Okay, this week, I'm going

1002
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 2: to sit at the piano and play I'm with You

1003
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 2: and show how I came up with the verse. I'm

1004
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 2: going to talk about bridges. I'm going to talk about

1005
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: who I think is the next five big acts are

1006
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: going to break, and so I kind of come up

1007
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 2: with ideas and I'll run them past Sam. I work

1008
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 2: with a lovely girl, Eva now because Sam got a

1009
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: big record deal and she said, can Eva do your

1010
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 2: editing now? So Eva hits me up. She just hit

1011
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 2: me up before I got here. What are we doing

1012
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 2: this week? Lauren? If I go from my folder, I

1013
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: have fifty pieces of footage, I'll be driving in my

1014
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 2: car and I'll be, oh, let me talk about this,

1015
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 2: and I'll just put the camera on while I'm driving

1016
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 2: and I'll just talk about the music business. I'll send

1017
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 2: two or three things to Eva every week. She edits

1018
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 2: it for me, sends it back, and then I do

1019
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 2: the posting myself. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, that's it. It's just

1020
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: like another little business. And then I have my email

1021
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 2: at the top and I have a new emails, so

1022
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 2: it's just for business and people constantly hit me up.

1023
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's scary the people who hit me up, and

1024
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 2: sometimes it's amazing.

1025
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 3: Oh okay, let's just assume you're lying in bed, you

1026
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 3: get an idea, you film something. You ever say, Oh

1027
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 3: I filmed it. I'm gonna post it right now without

1028
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 3: going to the editor.

1029
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do so, they do.

1030
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: So.

1031
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 2: Actually even now cut it down to two posts a

1032
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 2: week for me, I do my masterclass Little Flyer. You've

1033
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 2: probably seen it. I post that once a week, and

1034
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: then I post me in the studio stories of me

1035
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 2: and the studio stories of me talking. I'll just post

1036
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 2: that stuff myself. Yeah, I would say i'd probably post

1037
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 2: like eight times a week.

1038
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 3: Okay, just so we can get the time frame.

1039
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 2: When did this start last July?

1040
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 3: Okay, so like, are you sixteen months something like that?

1041
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1042
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 3: Okay, what works?

1043
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: Uh?

1044
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: Oh, I think just being brutally honest works. I'll tell

1045
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 2: you what works is showing me sitting at the piano

1046
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 2: writing the songs. Like people don't really get to see

1047
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 2: songwriters really like saying this is how we did it,

1048
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 2: that really works, giving little secrets and tips about songwriting

1049
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: that really works, what works every time. But I don't

1050
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 2: like to do it because I feel like, yeah, everyone

1051
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 2: knows you're at the Avrolovine stuff. Is like if I

1052
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: could keep pointing to skater Boy and probably get like

1053
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: millions of views because it's like the algorithms strange. It's

1054
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: sending out to new people too, so it's like you

1055
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 2: have to sort of you have to get over the

1056
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 2: fact that all your friends and family are looking God

1057
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 2: Lauren's work in social media again, because it's just new

1058
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 2: people that you're reaching, And I'm always like, why am

1059
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: I doing this so well? The reason I'm doing it

1060
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 2: is because I want to keep doing music, and songwriters

1061
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 2: have kind of always been pushed to the background. I

1062
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 2: think it's really important in this day and age, particularly

1063
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 2: with them being so undervalued and streaming, to say, hey,

1064
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: we're the guys here behind the scenes. That there's no

1065
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 2: recording studios needed, no engineers needed, no mastering engineers needed,

1066
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 2: no producers needed, no record labels, A and R men,

1067
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 2: nothing without a song. So that's what drives me to

1068
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 2: do it, is to keep saying, hey, folks, us songwriters

1069
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 2: are back here like starting your project off, We're the

1070
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: we're the beginning of it.

1071
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 3: Okay, would you ever post like your grocery shopping You're

1072
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 3: in Whole Foods or erewhon and the fruit looks amazing.

1073
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 3: Will you ever shoot it and go wow, I'm here,

1074
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 3: it looks amazing or is everything music connected?

1075
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: For me? Everything's music connected? Because who wants to see

1076
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 2: my old ass in the supermarket? You know? It's like No,

1077
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 2: for me, it's like I'm there to educate and help

1078
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 2: people and that's it. And I don't think anyone would

1079
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 2: be interested in me lying on the beach drinking a

1080
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 2: glass of champagne. No, no one wants to see that.

1081
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 3: Okay, you talked that you could post Avril Levigne every

1082
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 3: time for obvious reasons. You're not going to do that.

1083
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 3: To what degree are you tracking? Like, Oh, I did this,

1084
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 3: it got amazing number of views. I did this. I

1085
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 3: thought everybody would love it, but almost no one saw it.

1086
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 3: To what degree are you invested by in that?

1087
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 2: I don't even think about it, Bob. I post it

1088
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 2: and maybe at the end of the day I'll look

1089
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: and go ehh, damn, this one got like twenty thousand views. Wow.

1090
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 2: And then I take it really seriously to answer everybody

1091
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 2: who writes me. So maybe the next morning I'll spend

1092
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 2: like half an hour just writing back to people. And

1093
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 2: sometimes you get like five hundred views. Why whatever, it

1094
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, It doesn't matter. I don't have anything that

1095
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 2: you know.

1096
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:16,959
Speaker 3: There's Instagram, wheels, there's TikTok. Do you find any platform

1097
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 3: is more productive than another?

1098
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 2: I think equally TikTok, Instagram, YouTube shorts, and Instagram feeds

1099
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 2: right through to Facebook. Facebook's that my least successful one

1100
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 2: because somehow I kind of got off Facebook years ago

1101
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 2: and I feel like they won't let me back in.

1102
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 2: But I do post everything on Instagram and it goes

1103
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 2: through to Facebook. Somehow my algorithm has been hidden. And

1104
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 2: am I going to really care to go and figure

1105
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 2: out why? No, because I'm too busy making music, you know,

1106
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 2: just it's just fun.

1107
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 3: For me, Okay. And what is the optimum length for

1108
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 3: a post?

1109
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 2: Well, definitely less than a minute. Sometimes I'll do a

1110
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 2: long post like where I'll take a whole complicated and

1111
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 2: talk about how I wrote it. Well, I'll tell you

1112
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 2: one thing that did really well, I showed like the

1113
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 2: pictures of me and Arol and the original lyrics of

1114
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 2: I'm with You and skater Boy, and people love that.

1115
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 2: So that could be like a whole minute of me

1116
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 2: talking and really homing in on the page this is

1117
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 2: where we wrote this, see how we crossed this line

1118
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: out and people dig that kind of thing. So, but

1119
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 2: sometimes eleven seconds it can be amazing and get a

1120
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 2: lot of views.

1121
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 3: So tell me about this master class.

1122
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, when this all took off with my social media,

1123
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 2: my neighbor Angelie Pasad, who's an amazing artist, Canadian, very smart.

1124
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 2: She said, Lauren need to create a business of the

1125
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 2: fact that all these people are interested in you. I'm like, well,

1126
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 2: what am I going to do? You know? And she said,

1127
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 2: why didn't you start some master classes and career consultations?

1128
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: And so I had to think about that, like why

1129
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 2: would I do this and what is it? And my

1130
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 2: husband was lying next to me and he said, you

1131
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 2: know what, I would pay to know how you write songs.

1132
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 2: You didn't go to Juilliard, you didn't go to Berkeley

1133
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 2: School of Music. You pretty much self taught. So I

1134
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 2: would really pay to just hear how you do it,

1135
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 2: and he says, I hear you sitting at the piano

1136
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 2: hunting and pecking finding the bass notes that you want

1137
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 2: against the vocal melody. Can you put that into words?

1138
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 2: So I said, yeah, I think I can. So I

1139
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 2: started to write it with absolutely no limit of when

1140
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: it would be finished. And it took me about three months.

1141
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 2: And I literally just went every process that I do,

1142
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 2: from lying in bed or in the shower to hearing

1143
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 2: the melody? How do I do it? And I just

1144
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 2: analyzed it all and I just sort of free form

1145
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 2: rose all this stuff. Then a very nice lady who's

1146
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 2: a friend of mine called Aviva. I can't give her

1147
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 2: last name, but she's she's actually a speechwriter for the

1148
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 2: president current president, and she's a friend of mine. She

1149
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 2: came to the house and I said, I'm in the

1150
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 2: middle of writing this thing, and she said, can I

1151
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 2: have a look at it? Showed it to her and

1152
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 2: she said, this is fantastic. Let me show you how

1153
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 2: to organize it. And she says, when I'm writing a speech,

1154
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 2: this is how we do it, because first of all,

1155
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 2: do this, what is your overview? What are your tools? Right,

1156
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 2: Let's let's break it down, you know, to how you

1157
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 2: actually do it, how do you put the melody to

1158
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 2: the lyrics? What comes first? And she just kind of

1159
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: gave me all these bullet points and it really helped

1160
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 2: me organize the masterclass into something that I thought was

1161
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 2: very cool. So I decided that I would do it

1162
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 2: on Zoom and it's not that expensive, And to be honest,

1163
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 2: like I, I do like specials fifty percent off for

1164
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 2: like three months, so if everyone wants to sign up,

1165
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 2: they can sign up up in those first three months.

1166
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 2: I'm only doing it bi annually. So next one's October fifth,

1167
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 2: twelve noon on Zoom, and it's an hour of me

1168
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: doing a breakdown crash course on how I write songs,

1169
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 2: and then half an hour industry crash course just my

1170
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 2: opinion on everything about the music business. Again, you've got

1171
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 2: to be the producer or the artist. Today. All the

1172
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 2: advice I would give to my own daughters I poured

1173
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 2: into this. And then I do a fifteen minute guest speaker,

1174
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 2: and then I do a fifteen minute question answer and

1175
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 2: one member I pick their name out of a hat

1176
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 2: and I send them a home studio setup with a

1177
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 2: video that we've made of how to assemble the studio

1178
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 2: and how to record your demos so you can start

1179
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 2: to be a producer. And it's really very simple. I mean,

1180
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: if you've got a laptop, it's pretty simple. And I

1181
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 2: just wanted people to understand that for one hundred dollars,

1182
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 2: you can get a little studio set up. You know

1183
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 2: it's and you can start doing it yourself, because you're

1184
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 2: going to write fifty songs to get one good one

1185
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 2: when you first start out, so you don't want to

1186
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 2: be going into a local recording studio and paying big

1187
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 2: fees when you just need to really be learning. And

1188
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 2: so that's that's how it started, and I love it. Now.

1189
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 2: I have kids from Teen Cancer America that I work with.

1190
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:26,439
Speaker 2: I have four spots every class given to students from there,

1191
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 2: and two from SONA and two from the NMPA, so

1192
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 2: I always have eight people in the class who kind

1193
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 2: of have scholarship spots. And then other people just from

1194
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 2: my socials hit up that email and I have a

1195
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 2: lovely assistant called Kelly, and she reaches out to everybody.

1196
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: They all sign a waiver and that's it. And then

1197
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 2: I have a lot of people calling me to do

1198
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 2: private career consultations and that really came from the fact

1199
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 2: again of like how can I help people. I feel

1200
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 2: like I could give people short cuts in this industry

1201
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 2: so they don't come into peril in it any way.

1202
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 2: And I think that's really important to keep people knowing

1203
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 2: the truth. And even if the truth is you have

1204
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:08,919
Speaker 2: to get a day job if you want to do this,

1205
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 2: because what is it, three percent of people in entertainment

1206
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 2: make money from it. So fund your love of music

1207
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 2: by having a regular day gig. Why not? You know

1208
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 2: I did for a long time.

1209
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 3: So how many people might sign into one of.

1210
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 2: These zooms At the moment twenty five, we're about there

1211
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 2: and it's twenty five thirty. I'm hoping it builds over time.

1212
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 2: But again I'm doing it for the love of it

1213
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: and to sort of give back to people. And if

1214
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 2: it was three people, I would do it.

1215
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 3: You know, if eight people are scholarship to get the

1216
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 3: other seventeen. You're on social media? How often do you

1217
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 3: have to tell people about it? How often do you

1218
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 3: have to sell it?

1219
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,439
Speaker 2: I tell people every week. That's one of my things

1220
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 2: that I drop every week is sign up for my masterclass. Yeah,

1221
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 2: and then like on October eleventh, I'm doing a whole

1222
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 2: school in Exeter. It's coming and I just made a

1223
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 2: deal with them and I'm doing it on Zoom and

1224
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 2: it's going to be a class of fifty people and

1225
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 2: they only want the one hour crash course in songwriting,

1226
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 2: so it's going to be so easy.

1227
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 3: And wait, well let me make you said, Exeter.

1228
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 2: Exeter in England.

1229
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, they track you down out of the bluey.

1230
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 2: They tracked me down from my social media and said

1231
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 2: would you do your songwriting masterclass to the whole school?

1232
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 2: And I was like why not? Why not?

1233
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 3: Okay, so you're already very busy these one on one consultations.

1234
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 3: Do you have enough time for that?

1235
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. It's quite expensive to do, and

1236
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 2: I'm already doing that for free for people I just

1237
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 2: meet and love and want to help. So I'm pretty choosy.

1238
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 2: I have to again feel like this person's really got

1239
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 2: something going and they've really got a great voice before

1240
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 2: I'll take it on, you know. So I read through

1241
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 2: it and I'll i'll go at people. I don't really

1242
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 2: like to listen to submissions because that could open me

1243
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 2: to a problem. So I like to say, have you

1244
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 2: released anything, and then I'll go and listen to what

1245
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 2: they had released, and if I think they're really good

1246
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 2: and I don't want to just like take people's money,

1247
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 2: it's got to be something that I really feel I

1248
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:28,679
Speaker 2: can help them with and make a map. Had one

1249
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 2: nice lady who went to Berkeley. She came she'd written

1250
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 2: the musical and I'd been involved in working on the musical.

1251
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 2: I'm still doing it right now. I can't really talk

1252
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 2: about it, but it's I kind of knew so much

1253
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 2: information about it of how to do it that she

1254
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 2: came away going, Wow, this is amazing. You've given me

1255
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 2: the next ten steps of what I need to do,

1256
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:52,639
Speaker 2: and I felt so good. I was like, Wow, that's

1257
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 2: what I needed when I was younger, to just have

1258
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 2: someone lay out the map for me. So nothing feels

1259
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: better than that. Okay, that's why I do it.

1260
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:03,639
Speaker 3: If I don't call Lauren Christy, who do I.

1261
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 2: Call Linda Perry. There's only two of us who've been

1262
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 2: nominated for Producer of the Year for Grammy, who didn't

1263
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 2: produce other people. I think Linda's a badass. There's other

1264
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 2: people because there's so many people. I'm just one of

1265
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 2: many in this town.

1266
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 3: You know, Okay, you've had a lot of success. What

1267
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 3: do you do with the money? Do you manage it?

1268
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 3: You know, musicians frequently feel they're going to run out

1269
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 3: of money? How do you deal with it?

1270
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I mean so I used to live a

1271
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 2: pretty extravagant lifestyle when the matrix blew up, and you know,

1272
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 2: that's what happens, like bigger cars, bigger houses, all that stuff.

1273
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 2: And then when I went through my divorce, I just

1274
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 2: went through this period. Honestly. I became a Christian in

1275
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, and you know what happens when

1276
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 2: you become a Christians become incredibly happy and content. I

1277
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:11,679
Speaker 2: was always a little bit itchy and like nervous about things,

1278
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 2: and that all went away. And so the first thing

1279
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 2: I did was I don't want ever ever ever worry

1280
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 2: about money. And I said that to my husband. I

1281
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 2: don't want to ever lose anything. I don't want to

1282
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 2: ever lie in bed at night feeling like I'm biting

1283
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 2: my fingernails saying I need to have another hit. What

1284
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 2: do I do to accomplish that? And he said downsize?

1285
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 2: So I downsized everything. I literally live a pretty small life.

1286
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 2: I don't want to boat. I don't really like to travel.

1287
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 2: I will if it's like to see my family, important

1288
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:48,680
Speaker 2: things for my family, or there's a large check at

1289
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:50,640
Speaker 2: the end when I get there. I live in the

1290
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 2: Los Angeles. I'm one of the rare people who thinks

1291
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 2: this is paradise. And I felt it when I got

1292
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 2: off the plane when I was twenty three. I was like,

1293
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 2: this is it. I love it. And so I don't

1294
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 2: live a big lifestyle and I can't really see the

1295
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 2: need for me to say, sell my catalog. I did

1296
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,799
Speaker 2: sell half my catalog back in two thousand and seven,

1297
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 2: and it comes back to me. Fortunately I kept the

1298
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 2: bi RISI's side and then I built a new catalog

1299
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 2: with Donna at Reservoir and it was it facilitated some stuff.

1300
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:27,640
Speaker 2: But I kind of feel, what am I going to

1301
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,679
Speaker 2: do buy a big mansion. It's just me and my husband.

1302
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 2: My kids have left home now, just me and the

1303
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,720
Speaker 2: cats and Lawrence. So I don't worry about money. And

1304
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 2: it's nice. I'm gain making more money and I'll leave

1305
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 2: it to my kids. But I can't really think of

1306
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 2: anything that I would want to do. I don't want

1307
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 2: to build a massive recording studio because, as I said,

1308
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 2: like I pop into my co producers studios, and they

1309
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,600
Speaker 2: have all built their studios. I don't need to do that.

1310
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 2: I don't have ambitions on things like I I really

1311
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 2: want a house in the south of France or in

1312
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 2: Santa Barbara less as I get order less.

1313
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 3: Okay, do you regret selling in two thousand and seven?

1314
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 2: I can't say that. The only thing is I have

1315
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 2: a lot more understanding of why it's not so good

1316
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 2: to sell. And I actually loved your piece you did

1317
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 2: about it, calling everyone's suckers for selling it, because I

1318
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 2: thought it was so brilliant. You're going to end up

1319
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 2: potentially on a preparation h commercial with complicated or something,

1320
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 2: and you'd have no say in it. And so I

1321
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 2: understand that. And mainly because my husband was a banker,

1322
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 2: He's like, well, if they're offering you twenty multiple of

1323
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 2: twenty in the front door, that's forty out the back door,

1324
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 2: and just know that and why we And so that's

1325
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 2: twenty years of money that you're going to receive or

1326
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 2: what happens in year twenty five or year thirty or

1327
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 2: year forty five? You know, wouldn't you rather just hang

1328
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 2: onto your hits And if they're they're drizzling in a

1329
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 2: ten grand you know a year, well in year forty,

1330
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 2: that's not bad. Like if I sell it, and again,

1331
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with the money. And

1332
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 2: I know people say money's worth more now than it

1333
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 2: will be in the future. I don't know about that.

1334
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:22,679
Speaker 2: It's an everyone's looking for passive income, you know, money

1335
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 2: you're making while you're sleeping. And that's what I have.

1336
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 2: And it's a nice piece of mind. It's a nice

1337
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 2: clean transaction. It doesn't gather moth and rust.

1338
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 4: You know.

1339
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 2: I had a house at the beach. I never stopped

1340
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 2: having to like redo the stuff that was rotting from

1341
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,680
Speaker 2: the seawater, the pipes and everything. It's all these problems.

1342
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 2: So I just I feel like, keep hold of it.

1343
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 2: Why do you need to sell it? You know, and

1344
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 2: then what you put the money into could be risky,

1345
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 2: you know, earthquakes, fires, I don't. At one point I

1346
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 2: had four homes, one at the beach, one in Handcock Park,

1347
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 2: one in Studio City actually in two in Tarzana. I

1348
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 2: didn't sleep well at night. It was like it got

1349
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 2: bigger and bigger and bigger, and I just don't feel

1350
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 2: like I don't want that I just want a nice

1351
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 2: small life and to have good health and peace of

1352
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 2: mind and get to do my music.

1353
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 3: So at this point in time, how many houses? How

1354
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:22,639
Speaker 3: many cars?

1355
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 2: One house and three lease cars from the company for

1356
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:34,160
Speaker 2: my for my kids, because I'm because we're smart about

1357
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 2: business and I need, you know, live the life or

1358
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:41,040
Speaker 2: pay the taxes. And another car that we own, which

1359
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 2: is my husband's, and that's it.

1360
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:45,639
Speaker 3: So where did you grow up?

1361
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 2: I grew up in Shirley Croydon. Surrey. Croydon's like famous

1362
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 2: because Kate Moss comes from there and David Bowie grew

1363
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 2: up around the corner in Beckenham. So it's South London.

1364
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 2: Took us about thirty minutes to drive up to Big Ben,

1365
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 2: so I felt like very close to the city, but

1366
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 2: it was very nice countryside vibes you calabasas vibes, I'd say.

1367
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 3: And what did your parents do for a living?

1368
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 2: So my father was the youngest comedian in England. He

1369
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 2: started professionally working at sixteen and had like a wonderful career.

1370
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 2: He opened for Shirley Bassie at the Palladium and he

1371
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 2: was doing very well right before TV really took off,

1372
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:35,639
Speaker 2: like the Frost report became a big thing on TV,

1373
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 2: and his first marriage didn't work out. He had two children,

1374
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 2: my brother and sister, Stephen and Sharon, and when he

1375
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 2: met my mom, my mom was like, oh, hell no,

1376
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 2: you're not like traveling around the UK doing this anymore

1377
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 2: with all those hot show girls. And so my father

1378
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 2: quit and my mother was a stay at home mom

1379
01:15:55,840 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 2: and did it brilliantly and never stopped talking to my

1380
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:04,879
Speaker 2: brother Brandon and I about his years on the stage

1381
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 2: and performing and he was the biggest supporter for me

1382
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 2: of my music when I showed an inkling, you know,

1383
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a ballet dancer very seriously, and

1384
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 2: I auditioned for the Royal Ballet School and I didn't

1385
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 2: get in. I was devastated. But a girl at the

1386
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,639
Speaker 2: audition said you should audition for this other school, Bush Davies,

1387
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 2: and it's the optional school to the Royal Ballet and

1388
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 2: they do instead of just doing ballet, they do jazz

1389
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 2: and tap, singing, acting everything. So I was like, Okay,

1390
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:37,200
Speaker 2: I'll try auditioning, thinking I'm not going to get in there,

1391
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:40,840
Speaker 2: and I got in and on my first day of

1392
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:43,439
Speaker 2: having to go to boarding school when I was eleven,

1393
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:47,599
Speaker 2: I met Michelle Hatch and her dad was Tony Hatch,

1394
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 2: who wrote Downtown for Patula Clark. And that's the moment

1395
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:56,600
Speaker 2: that changed my life because I was like, what songwriting?

1396
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 2: What's that? That's a job? She said, yeah, my dad's

1397
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 2: really successful. And in every ballet studio there was a

1398
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:10,799
Speaker 2: piano and so I before I knew, I wasn't interested

1399
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 2: in ballet at all. I just wanted to sit and

1400
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:15,599
Speaker 2: write songs. And that's how it started for me. And

1401
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 2: my dad was like, Okay, let's buy you an amp

1402
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 2: and a mic He was just so supportive because he

1403
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 2: had it in his blood to be an entertainer, you know.

1404
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 2: And my brothers ended up doing music too, and he

1405
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 2: is a great singer, the music for TV shows, and

1406
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 2: it's just it really came passed down through our dad

1407
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 2: of just kind of his frustration to not be able

1408
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 2: to perform anymore because he stayed at home. Was a

1409
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:47,639
Speaker 2: really hard working father. He became a manufacturer's sales agent

1410
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 2: of furniture and did very well at it, and his

1411
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 2: gift of the gap just he would travel all around

1412
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 2: London at all the stores, and every shop owner loved

1413
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 2: my dad's showing up and he'd just come back and

1414
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:01,440
Speaker 2: saved like fifteen orders today. You know, he was a businessman,

1415
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:06,599
Speaker 2: but still he said to me, don't do this because

1416
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 2: you want to do it, do it because you have

1417
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 2: to do it.

1418
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 3: So you went to boarding school at eleven? How long

1419
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:14,719
Speaker 3: did you stay there?

1420
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 2: Till I was sixteen? And when I was fifteen, I

1421
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 2: became a day girl, so I would travel it there

1422
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 2: every day. So yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait, why did

1423
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 2: you be coming?

1424
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:27,479
Speaker 3: What is that?

1425
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:30,880
Speaker 2: A day girl? That's what they called it. So instead

1426
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 2: of going, instead of sleeping at the school, you got

1427
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 2: to get a day girl, they called it. So you

1428
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 2: would just show up like I get a day girl.

1429
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 3: Okay, if I was thinking of a job, I mean,

1430
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 3: you didn't board anymore. So yeah, what was it like

1431
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 3: going to boarding school to eleven?

1432
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 2: I mean I always tell the story about how my

1433
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 2: first night there, I was the only kid not crying.

1434
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 2: We had a room of twenty girls in the beds

1435
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 2: all around this big dormitory room, and a nanny who

1436
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 2: had this little room at the end, and she kissed

1437
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 2: everyone good night. Right before I went to boarding school,

1438
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 2: we had a burglary in my house where a man

1439
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:08,120
Speaker 2: broke into our house, and it was terrifying and my

1440
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:11,599
Speaker 2: dad had to chase him down the street. So literally,

1441
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:13,640
Speaker 2: I was going to boarding school the next week. And

1442
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 2: that safety and numbers thing really worked for me. I

1443
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 2: was like, I feel safe here with all these kids.

1444
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 2: All these girls were crying they missed their parents, and

1445
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:25,200
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm so fucking glad I'm not so

1446
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 2: it was terrifying this guy breaking into our house.

1447
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 3: Okay, I went to college and forty five percent of

1448
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:36,760
Speaker 3: the people went to prep school, boarding school, and they

1449
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:40,639
Speaker 3: had a radically different upbringing in that you know, it's

1450
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 3: almost like one of these movies where they grow up

1451
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 3: real fast, they understand the system they're acting out.

1452
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 2: What was your experience, Well, I feel like it's kind

1453
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 2: of like being raised by wolves going to boarding school,

1454
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 2: because they give you prefects, who are girls who are

1455
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 2: like fifteen who are in charge, or sixteen, you know,

1456
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:06,640
Speaker 2: the older girls. And it was it was crazy, like

1457
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:09,760
Speaker 2: it was a crazy time. It was like being in

1458
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 2: It was like a mini Los Angeles for me, Like

1459
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 2: last night, we had the entertainment capital of the world.

1460
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:19,479
Speaker 2: We had our own theater, we had constant musicals being done,

1461
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 2: and it was it was incredible. I could just pop

1462
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:24,640
Speaker 2: off with a like a boombox to a studio on

1463
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:26,720
Speaker 2: my own. And I was really into choreography as well,

1464
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:31,440
Speaker 2: which is very close to songwriting, and it was incredible.

1465
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 2: And we also could be really naughty because they just

1466
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 2: couldn't watch us. I was often having a cigarette and

1467
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:40,759
Speaker 2: a Gin and tonic before ballet class, you know, at fourteen.

1468
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 2: So I grew up very young and we had boys

1469
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 2: like sneaking up to meet us in the woods or

1470
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 2: in the car park at night. Your parents had no

1471
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 2: idea what you were doing. It was. It was kind

1472
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:56,639
Speaker 2: of a wild time and I loved every minute of it.

1473
01:20:57,360 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 2: I wouldn't regrets it. It's like when I talked to

1474
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 2: people who went to Bush Davies, We're all like, yeah,

1475
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 2: it was. It was something that no one would ever understand,

1476
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 2: kind of like Centrinians. I don't know if you know

1477
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:09,960
Speaker 2: the cent Trinian's books of like the Wild All Girls

1478
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 2: school that's a boarding school. It was very similar. I

1479
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 2: would say it was definitely Hogwarts Vibes in the countryside

1480
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:18,640
Speaker 2: in England, a big old house. It was. It was

1481
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 2: amazing and I think it set me up for the

1482
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 2: work ethic of being in this business that I'm in.

1483
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 3: Now, Okay, you're sixteen, you stop going to that school.

1484
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:30,840
Speaker 3: What do you do?

1485
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 2: Then I did some photographs because I still thought I'm

1486
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:40,720
Speaker 2: going to be a dancer. And this is where my

1487
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:44,799
Speaker 2: brother Stephen, from my dad's first marriage, we're really close.

1488
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 2: And he had a best friend called George McFarlane and

1489
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:50,720
Speaker 2: he was signed in a band called The Quick, and

1490
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 2: he had his fabulous recording studio, and when I was fourteen,

1491
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 2: he agreed to do some of my demos and that

1492
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 2: was so amazing for me because the school heard the

1493
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 2: demos and then they wanted to use all my songs

1494
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 2: in the school shows. So I'd already like had this

1495
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:07,640
Speaker 2: kind of this is what I'm going to do with

1496
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 2: my life. And I had other people saying, are you crazy.

1497
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:12,360
Speaker 2: You're such a good dancer, you need to be a dancer,

1498
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, I'm going to do music.

1499
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:17,719
Speaker 2: So I went to this photographer to get my shots

1500
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:19,880
Speaker 2: done to be a dancer, and he said to me,

1501
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 2: you know a friend of mine starting a band and

1502
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 2: Bruce Forsythe's daughter's going to be in the band. And

1503
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,440
Speaker 2: Bruce Forsythe at the time was one of the biggest

1504
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:33,879
Speaker 2: comedians in England. He had this show called The Generation

1505
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 2: Game and it was one of my favorites. So it

1506
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 2: was just such a big deal to be invited to

1507
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 2: go to an audition or this band that this girl

1508
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 2: was going to be in, who was pretty famous. I

1509
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:47,479
Speaker 2: went to do the audition, sat down at Wigmore Hall

1510
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 2: in London and I played a song I'd written at

1511
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 2: the piano and they immediately said, you're in the band.

1512
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:57,719
Speaker 2: And so for the next two years sixteen seventeen eighteen,

1513
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 2: I you know, to get a record deal with this band,

1514
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:04,360
Speaker 2: and we didn't get a record deal, and it was

1515
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:07,680
Speaker 2: kind of disappointing. I was like, oh, how am I

1516
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 2: going to get into this business? But one of the

1517
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 2: producers I'd worked with with that band, he offered to

1518
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:16,880
Speaker 2: do some demos with me, and at that point he

1519
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 2: introduced me to a bass player who came to one

1520
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:25,120
Speaker 2: of the sessions, and that's my ex husband, Graham, and

1521
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 2: Graham said, you're so talented and can I take you

1522
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 2: for dinner? And we got close and got together and

1523
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,680
Speaker 2: around about that time this is an incredible story, but

1524
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:41,439
Speaker 2: Tony Hatch, my friend's father, offered me a publishing deal

1525
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,240
Speaker 2: because he'd been listening to the demos I've been doing

1526
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 2: because I was still friends with Michelle, and I think

1527
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 2: it was like for seven thousand pounds. I was like

1528
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 2: seven thousand pounds, Oh my god. And what happened was

1529
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 2: Graham said, do you mind if I'd just played to

1530
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 2: my friend Alan Jacobs em and I was like, they're

1531
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,519
Speaker 2: not going to be interested. I went in and I

1532
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 2: had a meeting with Alan Jacobs and it was the

1533
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:11,080
Speaker 2: worst meeting of my life. It was just cold, nothing.

1534
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:13,639
Speaker 2: I came out saying I'm going to sign to Tony

1535
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 2: Hatch and the next day I get a call from Alan,

1536
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:18,960
Speaker 2: the nicest phone call ever. I think he was trying

1537
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 2: to like just be tough with me in the meeting

1538
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:22,519
Speaker 2: to see if I had what it takes, and he said,

1539
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 2: I think you're it. I want to sign you. So

1540
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 2: I ended up signing to EMI when I was nineteen,

1541
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:29,599
Speaker 2: and that was the beginning.

1542
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:33,400
Speaker 3: Let's go back a chapter. You met this girl when

1543
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 3: you were eleven whose father wrote Downtown. At what point

1544
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:40,880
Speaker 3: did you literally start writing songs and what did that

1545
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 3: look like?

1546
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 2: Right then? I said, will show me how to do it.

1547
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 2: So we sat at the piano together in the music

1548
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 2: room and we wrote a song called I'm Sick of

1549
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:50,400
Speaker 2: Your Trick. That was our first one that we did.

1550
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:52,800
Speaker 2: And then Michelle was not interested in writing songs. She

1551
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 2: went on to become an actress and she's fabulous. But

1552
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,559
Speaker 2: was it just clicked with me? And then the fact

1553
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 2: that my brother Stephen had this friend and who had

1554
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 2: a record deal, and that will became very glamorous to

1555
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 2: me of getting a record deal. That was the path

1556
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:06,800
Speaker 2: for me.

1557
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:09,719
Speaker 3: Did you already know how to play the piano?

1558
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:13,240
Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, My mom and had given me piano lessons

1559
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 2: from a piano teacher when I was like five, so

1560
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,599
Speaker 2: I could read music a bit. But again, I never

1561
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:22,760
Speaker 2: I've never ever gone, let me really study this. My

1562
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 2: brother became a brilliant pianist, but for me, it was

1563
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 2: the songwriting and I'm just like, let me figure out

1564
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 2: these chords rather than I have to. You know, I

1565
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 2: can't even be bothered to this day when I write songs,

1566
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:42,360
Speaker 2: I'm just like chill. Before before I'd like to play

1567
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:45,760
Speaker 2: bass notes to find that special melody and then I

1568
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:48,320
Speaker 2: can fill them in too if I want to. But

1569
01:25:48,400 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 2: I'm not really that interested. I never got better. I

1570
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:55,400
Speaker 2: wish I had that soul too late.

1571
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 3: Now, when you're sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen and you're in

1572
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:03,320
Speaker 3: this band looking for a record deal, where are you

1573
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:04,840
Speaker 3: living and what are you living on?

1574
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 2: And when I'm sixteen, I was still living at home

1575
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 2: with my mom and dad, and we had like a

1576
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:15,640
Speaker 2: garage with carpet in it, and we had mirrors set up,

1577
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 2: and we were the girls and I. We were in

1578
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 2: the three of us krashishi haha, and we were doing

1579
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:23,400
Speaker 2: all these dance moves and stuff. And I just after

1580
01:26:23,439 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 2: about a couple of years, I'm like, this isn't working.

1581
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 2: And then one of the producers who'd worked with us said,

1582
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:29,760
Speaker 2: I'll do your demos and then as I said, I

1583
01:26:29,800 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 2: met Graham, he played them to EMI had I had

1584
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 2: some really good songs. I had a song called my

1585
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 2: jeans I Want Them Back about one of my ex

1586
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 2: boyfriends who when we broke up, he said I want

1587
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 2: my fucking jeans back. That was his last words to me.

1588
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 2: And I was like, ooh, wow, my jeans, I want

1589
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:48,120
Speaker 2: them back, you know I was. That was one of

1590
01:26:48,160 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 2: the first songs I got signed on to EMI. And

1591
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:54,000
Speaker 2: then EMI introduced me to my first manager and my

1592
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 2: first manager. His name was Andrew Tribe, God Rest his soul,

1593
01:26:57,439 --> 01:26:59,640
Speaker 2: and he said to me, we need to go to America.

1594
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 2: This is I don't know if you're going to get

1595
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:06,679
Speaker 2: signed here. There was an A and R man heard

1596
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:08,800
Speaker 2: my stuff and basically said, I just don't really think

1597
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:13,280
Speaker 2: it's good enough. And then what happened was my manager

1598
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:16,160
Speaker 2: went over to America and he met this fabulous man

1599
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:19,960
Speaker 2: called John Carter. And that's John Carter who was behind

1600
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 2: Tina Turner's success with Private Dancer, her big comeback. He's

1601
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:26,760
Speaker 2: the guy in the documentary and Tina Turner who got

1602
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:29,040
Speaker 2: on his knees and said to the A and R man,

1603
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 2: you can't drop her. So John Carter signed me without

1604
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:35,760
Speaker 2: ever meeting me. He just talked to me on the

1605
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:38,160
Speaker 2: phone and there was no FaceTime back then. He loved

1606
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 2: my geenes and want them back, and a couple of

1607
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 2: other songs I had, And at that point, I'm still

1608
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 2: doing my demos on an eight track and I moved

1609
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 2: in with Graham and John Carter said that's it. So

1610
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:58,320
Speaker 2: he signed me and gave me some money and I

1611
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:00,479
Speaker 2: paid off my debts with the money, and then they

1612
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:02,720
Speaker 2: gave me some money to make a record, and so

1613
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,559
Speaker 2: we're in the studio making the record and then we

1614
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:09,960
Speaker 2: get a call that they fired everybody at Atlantic and

1615
01:28:10,280 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 2: John was gone. He's like, I'm so sorry, Lauren. And

1616
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:17,640
Speaker 2: now I look back on it, I'm like, this was

1617
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 2: kind of a crazy story. But my manager convinced me

1618
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 2: to go to my bank and get alone for like

1619
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand pounds to finish the album. Bad idea.

1620
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 2: I did it and made the rest of the record

1621
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,000
Speaker 2: and then like, my man's like, it's amazing, let's send

1622
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:41,599
Speaker 2: it to Atlantic Crickets. No one responded. So I'm stuck

1623
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:47,759
Speaker 2: with all this debt at twenty one years old, twenty

1624
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:50,479
Speaker 2: two years old maybe, And I remember at night just

1625
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 2: thinking I'm fucked. That's what I thought. I've completely blown it.

1626
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 2: I'm screwed. And what happened was John Carter did not

1627
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:01,759
Speaker 2: let me down. He said, I'm going to my friend

1628
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:04,799
Speaker 2: Tom Vickers. I don't know if you know Tom Vickers.

1629
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:07,519
Speaker 2: He is an amazing, amazing A and R man, and

1630
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:10,920
Speaker 2: he's responsible for me being in America. And he took

1631
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:13,839
Speaker 2: it to Ed Eckstein, who was the head of Mercury Records,

1632
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:17,000
Speaker 2: and Tom and Ed worked very closely together. And they

1633
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 2: flew me to New York and I'm like, tainted goods.

1634
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:25,639
Speaker 2: I'm signed to Atlantic, right this is? And I sat

1635
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 2: and played for Ed in his office and he said,

1636
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 2: let's make a deal, and so they literally bought me

1637
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:35,000
Speaker 2: off Atlantic. Doug Morris was very nice. I had to

1638
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:36,720
Speaker 2: write to him because no one would reply to me

1639
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:40,439
Speaker 2: all the messages. My management said that no one would reply,

1640
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:46,160
Speaker 2: and Doug Morris FedEx me a release and the advance

1641
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:49,240
Speaker 2: from Mercury Records paid off the one hundred thousand pound

1642
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 2: debt and all my lawyer's fees, and I showed up

1643
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:56,840
Speaker 2: in LA in ninety one at twenty three. It took

1644
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 2: me that long, Bob, from nineteen to twenty three. I

1645
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:02,719
Speaker 2: know it's probably not a long time, but it felt

1646
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:06,639
Speaker 2: like forever. And I taught tap dancing to supplement myself

1647
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:11,640
Speaker 2: in that time. And so I show up with one

1648
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 2: hundred bucks in my pocket and they told me you're

1649
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:17,599
Speaker 2: going to get a PIDM of fifteen hundred bucks a month.

1650
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 2: And I was like, what, this is amazing. And they

1651
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 2: put me up at the Oakward Apartments on Woodman Avenue,

1652
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 2: and that was the beginning. I kind of felt like

1653
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 2: I'd just been so much struggle, and I almost like quit,

1654
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:31,680
Speaker 2: you know, because I didn't think it was what am

1655
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:34,519
Speaker 2: I doing? Chasing this dream? And so I showed up

1656
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 2: in La and that was the beginning of good things.

1657
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go back. Why did the bank lend you

1658
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:52,360
Speaker 3: the money? Did your parents have to guarantee it or something?

1659
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:55,400
Speaker 2: No, they didn't. I don't know how they gave me

1660
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:57,679
Speaker 2: the money. I don't. My dad knew the bank manager

1661
01:30:57,720 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 2: quite well, and I don't know how might my dad.

1662
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:03,120
Speaker 2: It's not with us anymore. I would love to ask him,

1663
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 2: what were you thinking? Dad? But he didn't guarante all

1664
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 2: the money. They could have lost it easily, but I

1665
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:12,839
Speaker 2: paid back every penny. It was just a stupid move because,

1666
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:16,320
Speaker 2: you know, my manager just believed in me so much.

1667
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:19,559
Speaker 2: He thought Atlantic, the new people at Atlantic would be

1668
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:22,800
Speaker 2: won over by my amazing record that I've made. It

1669
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 2: was a very bad move. Don't don't finance your own stuff,

1670
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:27,880
Speaker 2: do it for free.

1671
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:31,320
Speaker 3: Okay, the label puts you up in Oakwood on Woodmanten.

1672
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:32,719
Speaker 3: Where's Graham?

1673
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:39,840
Speaker 2: So Graham he came out with me and he became

1674
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:42,760
Speaker 2: part of my band, and he was in a band

1675
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:45,639
Speaker 2: called Breathe as well, who were doing quite well in America.

1676
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:48,320
Speaker 2: They had that song Hands to Heaven, and so when

1677
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:50,040
Speaker 2: he came out, he kind of had stuff to do

1678
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 2: and he was quite busy, and but he joined my

1679
01:31:54,120 --> 01:31:56,719
Speaker 2: band and we got like work visas through the record

1680
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:00,639
Speaker 2: label and it was great. It was I started making

1681
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:07,439
Speaker 2: my album with Tony Paluso from the Carpenters. Well, it

1682
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:09,040
Speaker 2: was so weird. The first thing they did was they

1683
01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:11,800
Speaker 2: put me with about five different producers. One was called

1684
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:18,320
Speaker 2: Michael James Jackson who produced Kiss. There was Pieter Vanetta

1685
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 2: and his partner who were very nice, Tony Paluso. They

1686
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 2: all did one song for me, no different to what

1687
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 2: I do today, taking that shot like chopped. And Tony

1688
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,160
Speaker 2: came through and he was one of the funniest people

1689
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:37,360
Speaker 2: I've ever met. I love him dearly to this day.

1690
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:41,120
Speaker 2: And we made a great record together. It was a

1691
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:48,559
Speaker 2: beautiful experience, and that record I got a Best New

1692
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:52,040
Speaker 2: Artist nomination at the American Music Awards in I believe

1693
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:56,320
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, and I had a song called the

1694
01:32:56,360 --> 01:33:00,160
Speaker 2: Color of Night, which got a Golden Globe nomination for

1695
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:02,519
Speaker 2: that Bruce Willis movie, that thriller I don't know if

1696
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:07,679
Speaker 2: you remember it. The color of the night, but still close,

1697
01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 2: but no cigar. I knew that this is a money

1698
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 2: business and my record had sold one hundred and fifty

1699
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:16,960
Speaker 2: thousand copies and that wasn't going to cut it. And

1700
01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 2: then I had left the company and Tom and they

1701
01:33:22,120 --> 01:33:24,479
Speaker 2: bought in Danny Goldberg and I'm at a brand new

1702
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:28,000
Speaker 2: company again, and at this point my manager and I

1703
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:31,519
Speaker 2: had kind of just grown apart. It did it did

1704
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:36,799
Speaker 2: not work, and I went to my friends at Hits Magazine.

1705
01:33:36,840 --> 01:33:39,080
Speaker 2: I knew a girl who works at Hits Magazine, and

1706
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:41,679
Speaker 2: she said, you should go and talk to Lenny, and

1707
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:45,599
Speaker 2: so I went and took Lenny beer for lunch at

1708
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:48,360
Speaker 2: the IVY. I remember him being very amused that I

1709
01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:50,760
Speaker 2: pulled that cash from my purse to pay I wanted

1710
01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:53,080
Speaker 2: to pay for him. And I asked his advice and

1711
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:54,960
Speaker 2: what she should do. And I said, I'm stuck on

1712
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 2: this label. Now Ed's gone, Tom's gone, what am I

1713
01:33:58,280 --> 01:33:59,600
Speaker 2: going to do? And he said, let me go and

1714
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:02,760
Speaker 2: talk to day Annie Goldberg. And they listened to my

1715
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:04,320
Speaker 2: music first and they were like, this is really good.

1716
01:34:04,360 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 2: And they made me come over to his house and

1717
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 2: sit at the piano and play and they you're really good,

1718
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 2: like back to the beginning. And they came back and

1719
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:16,880
Speaker 2: Danny Goldberg gave me some money and then I made

1720
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:21,479
Speaker 2: my next record, which was called Breed because at that

1721
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:23,320
Speaker 2: point I really started to think, how am I going

1722
01:34:23,400 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 2: to have kids? Like I'm twenty seven or something like that,

1723
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:30,559
Speaker 2: and how am I going to do this? Like I

1724
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:36,680
Speaker 2: will the clock sticking? So I made that album with

1725
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:41,040
Speaker 2: my friend Gary Clark, and Tony did some of it too,

1726
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:46,200
Speaker 2: I do believe, and had the song in the Batman movie.

1727
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:48,320
Speaker 2: And then I remember Lennie calling me one day and

1728
01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:51,639
Speaker 2: said record label doesn't want to do another single. It's

1729
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:56,840
Speaker 2: not reacting, it's over. Oh dagger to the heart. I

1730
01:34:56,840 --> 01:34:59,720
Speaker 2: remember crying all the way home and then just like

1731
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:00,559
Speaker 2: am I going to do?

1732
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:02,519
Speaker 3: It?

1733
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 2: Was bad? I'm in La. I'm like, why am I

1734
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:08,000
Speaker 2: in La? Why am I living here when you know

1735
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:10,000
Speaker 2: all my family's in England? What am I going to do?

1736
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:15,680
Speaker 2: And at that point a friend of mine, Gavin McKillop,

1737
01:35:16,240 --> 01:35:18,760
Speaker 2: who produced Tone in the Wet Sprocket, he said to me,

1738
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:20,599
Speaker 2: let me do some demos view and he came around

1739
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:22,679
Speaker 2: and set up a studio in my house. Very nice

1740
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:25,640
Speaker 2: of him, and we did four songs. He said, let

1741
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:28,679
Speaker 2: me play it to my manager. Played it to his manager,

1742
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:31,400
Speaker 2: Sandy Robertson. Sandy said, I think I can get you

1743
01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:34,439
Speaker 2: a deal. I'm like, okay, fantastic, because I think you

1744
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 2: need to go to England and meet this a ANDR guy.

1745
01:35:36,360 --> 01:35:38,759
Speaker 2: He's interested. So I flew all the way to England

1746
01:35:38,960 --> 01:35:40,880
Speaker 2: to sit down the restaurant and the guy said to me,

1747
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:42,919
Speaker 2: I don't know that I see you as an artist.

1748
01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 2: Could I have this song called Sugar Snow that I'd

1749
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:48,760
Speaker 2: written with Gary Clark? He said, could I have that

1750
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:53,120
Speaker 2: song for Natalie? I'm Brulia And I was just like, ooh,

1751
01:35:53,280 --> 01:36:00,360
Speaker 2: this is over. It's over. Maybe I was twenty nine. Anyway,

1752
01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:06,479
Speaker 2: it was nineteen ninety eight. Yeah, so I was. I

1753
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:09,000
Speaker 2: was thirty, and I was like trying to pretend like

1754
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:12,000
Speaker 2: I was twenty six, and you know, it's an age's

1755
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:17,519
Speaker 2: business back then at least it was so where am

1756
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:19,080
Speaker 2: I in the story, Bob, I just lost it.

1757
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:22,920
Speaker 3: Well, the guy says, can I have this song? You're

1758
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 3: thinking about having kids?

1759
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:24,719
Speaker 2: Okay?

1760
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:25,040
Speaker 3: Thirty?

1761
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:27,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I get on the plane to come back,

1762
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:30,679
Speaker 2: and on the plane, I'm just like don't cry, don't

1763
01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 2: you cry? Like this be tough. And I was like,

1764
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:38,520
Speaker 2: I kept seeing when I was in London at these meetings,

1765
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:42,040
Speaker 2: this girl Britney spears all over the TV and I'm like,

1766
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:45,200
Speaker 2: who's behind this? And my man and this guy Sandy

1767
01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:48,360
Speaker 2: Robertson kept talking about Max Martin, Max Martin. So I

1768
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:51,120
Speaker 2: did some research and Max Martin had this company called Shaeron,

1769
01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:54,920
Speaker 2: And so I'm on the plane saying don't cry, and

1770
01:36:54,960 --> 01:36:58,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, it just came to me. I'm going behind

1771
01:36:58,120 --> 01:37:00,160
Speaker 2: the scenes and I'm going to be Max Martin and

1772
01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:02,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to have share On and I'm going to

1773
01:37:02,080 --> 01:37:04,839
Speaker 2: start it with Graham because Graham was signed to RCA.

1774
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:08,599
Speaker 2: And I'm like, we're going to be Shareon, and I'm

1775
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 2: going to ask Graham to ask the other guy in

1776
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:12,920
Speaker 2: the band, Scott, who does all the production, who's like

1777
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,640
Speaker 2: a genius with all the gear, if the three of

1778
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:18,920
Speaker 2: us can form a company. So we came back, we

1779
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:21,200
Speaker 2: sat and had a meeting, the three of us, and went,

1780
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:25,320
Speaker 2: let's do it. I called my fancy management who managed

1781
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:27,240
Speaker 2: Fleet with Mac that Lennie had hooked me up with,

1782
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:29,960
Speaker 2: and Lenny was kind of co managing me He's always

1783
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:33,360
Speaker 2: been like my godfather in the business and I love him.

1784
01:37:33,720 --> 01:37:38,400
Speaker 2: And he said, I said, Lenny, I'm going behind the scenes.

1785
01:37:38,400 --> 01:37:40,360
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do this artist thing anymore. I

1786
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:44,920
Speaker 2: just want to write and produce. And He's like, okay, fine,

1787
01:37:45,200 --> 01:37:48,320
Speaker 2: And I said, I'm saying goodbye to you as a manager.

1788
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:50,200
Speaker 2: Is that okay? Because I need to go be managed

1789
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 2: by this guy, Sandy Robertson, And he said that's fine

1790
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:55,000
Speaker 2: with me. Lauren, I love you. And I called Tony

1791
01:37:55,080 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 2: Demitriardist and I remember his partner said, Lauren, what makes

1792
01:37:58,120 --> 01:37:59,720
Speaker 2: you think you can just go behind the scenes and

1793
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:01,479
Speaker 2: be as songwriter? And I said, I don't know, but

1794
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:04,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to do it. And that was the beginning

1795
01:38:04,320 --> 01:38:06,280
Speaker 2: of the Matrix. And we came up with a name

1796
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:08,720
Speaker 2: because we'd looked like what could be a cool name

1797
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:11,880
Speaker 2: before the movie had come out, and we thought the

1798
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,439
Speaker 2: matrix means the womb if you look up in the

1799
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:17,559
Speaker 2: Oxford English Dictionary, and we're like, ooh, we'll be like

1800
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:21,599
Speaker 2: this womb where artists. I don't think they'd been really

1801
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:24,479
Speaker 2: apart from Sharon and Max Martin like a team. The

1802
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:26,960
Speaker 2: Neptunes came up at the same time as us, Well,

1803
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:28,840
Speaker 2: we can I just can just come and hang out,

1804
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:30,680
Speaker 2: like sit on the floor and eat pizza with us,

1805
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:34,519
Speaker 2: and we'll just like let them incubate with us, and

1806
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:36,840
Speaker 2: we'll kind of find a direction for them. And that's

1807
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:39,960
Speaker 2: how the Matrix started and we didn't look back.

1808
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:43,240
Speaker 3: Okay, we live in a world where there are almost

1809
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:49,040
Speaker 3: no bands anymore. Everybody's a solo artist. Everybody's sophisticated about finances.

1810
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:52,639
Speaker 3: You got three people doing the job that one person does,

1811
01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:57,840
Speaker 3: you got to split it three ways. Anybody thinking about that, Well, not.

1812
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:00,040
Speaker 2: Really, because as I said, we all made up for

1813
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:05,559
Speaker 2: each other's weaknesses, you know, and it just worked out

1814
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:08,599
Speaker 2: and we made a lot of money. And also it's

1815
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:12,200
Speaker 2: like we had a studio at my house then our

1816
01:39:12,240 --> 01:39:15,400
Speaker 2: main studio, so we could be running two sessions at

1817
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,360
Speaker 2: the same time, and then invariably Graham would be at

1818
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:21,000
Speaker 2: a different studio like routining a band and getting them

1819
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:25,920
Speaker 2: ready to record. So, you know, when there's only one person,

1820
01:39:26,520 --> 01:39:28,519
Speaker 2: you can only only be one place at one time.

1821
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 2: So we had music going on all the time, every day,

1822
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:35,479
Speaker 2: and we worked ten to seven every day.

1823
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:40,040
Speaker 3: The dearly departed Sandy Robertson, did he get you gigs.

1824
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:43,320
Speaker 2: And I got to tell you, Sandy was the hardest

1825
01:39:43,360 --> 01:39:45,479
Speaker 2: working man in show business. This is how I met you.

1826
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:47,360
Speaker 2: Remember at the party and I met you and you

1827
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:49,439
Speaker 2: said you haven't done anything that sucks yet, And I said,

1828
01:39:49,479 --> 01:39:51,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and live up to that bomb

1829
01:39:51,360 --> 01:39:54,960
Speaker 2: and not do anything that ever sucks. So Sandy worked

1830
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 2: so hard once he realized that he had this team,

1831
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:00,600
Speaker 2: and it was shit or bust. I was pregnant, by

1832
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 2: the way, but I decided I'm just going to get pregnant.

1833
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 2: Dangerous thing to do. We didn't have any money really

1834
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 2: when we started, and we took out alone for one

1835
01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:16,920
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars again, and then we.

1836
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:19,799
Speaker 3: Once again banks don't give you money for no reason.

1837
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:22,200
Speaker 3: What was one hundred and fifty k? What was the

1838
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:24,639
Speaker 3: collateral your house or whatever.

1839
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:27,320
Speaker 2: I don't know how we did it, but we got

1840
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:31,120
Speaker 2: fifty grand each and we bought like a portable studio

1841
01:40:31,120 --> 01:40:33,000
Speaker 2: that we could take anywhere in the world with us,

1842
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:36,719
Speaker 2: like rolling in all the great big rigs of stuff.

1843
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:41,160
Speaker 2: And that's how we started. And Sandy, oh boy, I've

1844
01:40:41,200 --> 01:40:44,600
Speaker 2: never known anyone work people like this. It was I

1845
01:40:44,640 --> 01:40:46,759
Speaker 2: would sleep in the studio when I was pregnant, sometimes

1846
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:50,160
Speaker 2: till like four in the morning. And it's very exciting

1847
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:52,639
Speaker 2: when you get someone like Sandy who believes in you.

1848
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:56,639
Speaker 2: He would tell me you're the best songwriter out there.

1849
01:40:57,160 --> 01:40:59,719
Speaker 2: That's why he would say, you, guys, there's no better

1850
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:02,679
Speaker 2: team out there than you. And we didn't even believe

1851
01:41:02,680 --> 01:41:05,720
Speaker 2: in ourselves, but he believed in us, and he just

1852
01:41:06,040 --> 01:41:10,439
Speaker 2: never stopped hustling and going to every He was on

1853
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:12,880
Speaker 2: a plane to New York all the time, going around

1854
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:15,200
Speaker 2: all the labels, the Matrix or the next big thing.

1855
01:41:15,240 --> 01:41:17,000
Speaker 2: You've got to work with them. And so I would

1856
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 2: say that started in nineteen ninety nine. By two thousand

1857
01:41:20,120 --> 01:41:22,360
Speaker 2: and one, we were easily making half a million dollars

1858
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:25,000
Speaker 2: a year between the three of us, just on stuff

1859
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:28,439
Speaker 2: that wasn't successful, stuff that was you know, back in

1860
01:41:28,479 --> 01:41:30,920
Speaker 2: the day, they would commission you to do five songs,

1861
01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:34,960
Speaker 2: ten grand a song, you know. So our schedules was

1862
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 2: like jam packed with these money gigs that we were doing,

1863
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:43,000
Speaker 2: and none of it had become successful, but we were

1864
01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:48,240
Speaker 2: having a blast, and you know, we bought houses, little

1865
01:41:48,280 --> 01:41:51,000
Speaker 2: houses to start. Oh and of course Sandy signed our

1866
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 2: publishing too, with warners like a joint venture. So we

1867
01:41:54,320 --> 01:41:56,880
Speaker 2: got some money from that too, not much, but it

1868
01:41:57,040 --> 01:42:00,000
Speaker 2: was it was an I felt like, my god, I'm successful.

1869
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:04,320
Speaker 2: Finally after all the close but no cigar, the Matrix

1870
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:07,760
Speaker 2: was rolling and then one of the people that came

1871
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:09,000
Speaker 2: along was Avril Lavine's.

1872
01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:13,000
Speaker 3: We were a little bit slower before Avril shows up.

1873
01:42:13,720 --> 01:42:17,559
Speaker 3: You're making money, but you're having no success. Does that

1874
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:21,160
Speaker 3: taint your image or you just still keep having gigs?

1875
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:23,160
Speaker 3: You know you would normally didn't want to work with

1876
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:23,840
Speaker 3: a hit maker.

1877
01:42:25,160 --> 01:42:28,120
Speaker 2: Well, I would say that we were getting b sides

1878
01:42:28,160 --> 01:42:33,080
Speaker 2: on rolling keating. We were making albums for people and

1879
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:36,280
Speaker 2: then they would get dropped just because everyone got fired

1880
01:42:36,320 --> 01:42:38,240
Speaker 2: at the label. When we talk about the stars having

1881
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:41,160
Speaker 2: to align to become successful, there was just so many

1882
01:42:41,280 --> 01:42:44,200
Speaker 2: things where I was like, oh my god, what are

1883
01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:46,200
Speaker 2: we going to do? We got to quit, We've got

1884
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:48,240
Speaker 2: to do something else with our lives. I remember going

1885
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:50,800
Speaker 2: back to my mom and dad and just saying, I

1886
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:53,080
Speaker 2: don't know if we're ever going to have success. I

1887
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:56,679
Speaker 2: just don't. Our ship has not come in, but we're

1888
01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:59,160
Speaker 2: making money and we're paying our mortgage on our house,

1889
01:43:00,360 --> 01:43:03,080
Speaker 2: little house that we had, and I and I got

1890
01:43:03,080 --> 01:43:07,280
Speaker 2: pregnant again. So this is two thousand and one, I

1891
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 2: get pregnant for the second time. It was still you know,

1892
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:12,759
Speaker 2: it's the first good money I've made in the business.

1893
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:16,640
Speaker 2: And that was when Sweet Aril Levine, well were a

1894
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:17,720
Speaker 2: little bit slower.

1895
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:21,479
Speaker 3: How does the Matrix get hooked up with Arril Levine?

1896
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:25,320
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I'm saying. So what happened was Sandy

1897
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:27,920
Speaker 2: called me, as he did most weeks, like you're working

1898
01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:30,040
Speaker 2: with this band this week. There's three of them. They're

1899
01:43:30,040 --> 01:43:32,400
Speaker 2: called the Swallow members from Canada. You know, we were

1900
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:34,920
Speaker 2: just he just fired stuff at us, and we would

1901
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:38,320
Speaker 2: show up ten to seven, six days a week. We

1902
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:42,679
Speaker 2: would do this just NonStop. He calls me up. There's

1903
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:45,080
Speaker 2: this girl. She's only sixteen years old. She's been signed

1904
01:43:45,080 --> 01:43:46,880
Speaker 2: to Arista for a couple of years and they don't

1905
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:49,200
Speaker 2: really know what they're doing with her or where it's going,

1906
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:53,479
Speaker 2: and they and they're a little so we're like, bring around,

1907
01:43:53,560 --> 01:43:56,760
Speaker 2: let's have a meeting. And so this little sixteen year

1908
01:43:56,760 --> 01:44:01,240
Speaker 2: old walks into the room and she has toothbrushes melted

1909
01:44:01,280 --> 01:44:03,960
Speaker 2: together into bangles all the way up her arm on

1910
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:07,800
Speaker 2: both sides. I was like, this girl's interesting. She's beautiful.

1911
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:12,639
Speaker 2: She's got crazy like braids, like little braids that she's

1912
01:44:12,720 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 2: done herself, and and she looked kind of like in

1913
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:20,360
Speaker 2: a bad mood. And so we were like, okay, what

1914
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 2: do you want to do? And she's played us a

1915
01:44:22,360 --> 01:44:24,760
Speaker 2: few dems. She goes, but I hate these demos, and

1916
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:27,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, so, what do you want to do?

1917
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:30,960
Speaker 2: And she said I like this and she puts on

1918
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:33,519
Speaker 2: system of a down the Band. I don't know if

1919
01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:40,360
Speaker 2: you remember them, but yeah, right, and we were all like, Nah,

1920
01:44:40,439 --> 01:44:42,519
Speaker 2: this isn't going to work, this is not going to

1921
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:46,599
Speaker 2: work now. I just finished my Breed record, remember, which

1922
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 2: had caused had not happened for me. Had a song

1923
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:53,800
Speaker 2: could I Want what I Want? Which was in the

1924
01:44:53,800 --> 01:44:59,000
Speaker 2: Wild Things movie with Denise Richard's I think her name is,

1925
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 2: And I played Avrol some of my last records in particular.

1926
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:07,360
Speaker 2: She loved that song I Want what I Want, and

1927
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:10,040
Speaker 2: she goes, I like that vibe. So we were kind

1928
01:45:10,040 --> 01:45:13,000
Speaker 2: of like, ah, okay, we know what to do with this.

1929
01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:16,400
Speaker 2: And I was kind of very influenced by say, Garbage

1930
01:45:16,520 --> 01:45:20,360
Speaker 2: the Band and Butch Big and that kind of stuff.

1931
01:45:21,080 --> 01:45:25,040
Speaker 2: So she went away and the three of us sat

1932
01:45:25,080 --> 01:45:27,879
Speaker 2: down and just started like fleshing out a few ideas.

1933
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:30,519
Speaker 2: I think she came back the very next day and

1934
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:34,280
Speaker 2: we had the basic chords for Complicated and we started

1935
01:45:34,280 --> 01:45:39,960
Speaker 2: writing that and she said, you know, complicated frustrated. I'm like, oh,

1936
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:46,760
Speaker 2: complicated frustrated. That sounds cool. We typical, no different to

1937
01:45:46,760 --> 01:45:50,320
Speaker 2: today's session, start at one o'clock, kind of come up

1938
01:45:50,360 --> 01:45:55,200
Speaker 2: with a loose format for the song. Quite often I'll

1939
01:45:55,240 --> 01:45:59,280
Speaker 2: sing the demo because the artists is so like rushed

1940
01:45:59,320 --> 01:46:02,040
Speaker 2: off their feet with people like calling them about other stuff.

1941
01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:03,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, do we have all the parts that

1942
01:46:03,680 --> 01:46:05,960
Speaker 2: we like? Okay, I'm gonna pop in. I'm going to

1943
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:07,840
Speaker 2: do a quick demo for you, like just a one

1944
01:46:07,920 --> 01:46:10,320
Speaker 2: take vocal and you take it away and we'll meet

1945
01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:13,360
Speaker 2: up the next day. And so I did the rough vocal,

1946
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:16,360
Speaker 2: and then when she left, I was like, this verse

1947
01:46:16,439 --> 01:46:20,120
Speaker 2: isn't good enough? And so that's when I had that

1948
01:46:21,080 --> 01:46:25,439
Speaker 2: chilled out yellnivo lay back is I'm being done before?

1949
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:27,559
Speaker 2: And I was like, ooh, this melody is amazing, but

1950
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:31,440
Speaker 2: I know it's something else. It's so catchy. So I

1951
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:34,439
Speaker 2: called my brother, who's like an encyclopedia of music. I said,

1952
01:46:34,479 --> 01:46:37,320
Speaker 2: you know this, da da dad, da da da dad.

1953
01:46:37,760 --> 01:46:40,320
Speaker 2: What is that? He's like, I have no idea. I

1954
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:46,040
Speaker 2: called five other trusted sources, no one could put their

1955
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:47,719
Speaker 2: finger on it. So I was like, I think it's ours.

1956
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:50,760
Speaker 2: I think that's it. So I went back in recorded

1957
01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:55,120
Speaker 2: that verse, sent it over to Averrol's manager. He called

1958
01:46:55,120 --> 01:46:58,840
Speaker 2: me back and he said, she's been driving around for

1959
01:46:58,920 --> 01:47:01,000
Speaker 2: the for the last three days listening to this in

1960
01:47:01,040 --> 01:47:03,280
Speaker 2: the car with a very serious look on her face.

1961
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:05,600
Speaker 2: And I said, well, she doesn't like it, and he

1962
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:09,080
Speaker 2: said no, she thinks it's too pop, but she knows

1963
01:47:09,080 --> 01:47:12,000
Speaker 2: it's going to change her life. And I was like,

1964
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:18,200
Speaker 2: that's it. Come around. So Avril shows up one night

1965
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:21,479
Speaker 2: and it's just me and her, just has avel and

1966
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:26,240
Speaker 2: I and we have this weird studio on Saint Clair Avenue,

1967
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:28,719
Speaker 2: and Studio City is just a house that we've converted

1968
01:47:28,720 --> 01:47:31,200
Speaker 2: into our studio. The living room's got all our gear

1969
01:47:31,240 --> 01:47:33,479
Speaker 2: and then there's a bedroom which has no windows and

1970
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:36,000
Speaker 2: it's just made of wood, all inside wood ceiling.

1971
01:47:36,840 --> 01:47:37,240
Speaker 3: It was a.

1972
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:40,000
Speaker 2: Perfect vocal booth. So and we put like a double

1973
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:41,960
Speaker 2: door on it, closed that door, and I said, are

1974
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:44,080
Speaker 2: you ready to do it? And she said yeah, So

1975
01:47:44,120 --> 01:47:47,519
Speaker 2: I hit record and she sung the whole thing down

1976
01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:51,479
Speaker 2: and it was unbelievable. I was like, hang on a second,

1977
01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:54,519
Speaker 2: can you do that again? She said yeah, she does

1978
01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:59,280
Speaker 2: it again and it's just as good. I said, do

1979
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:01,360
Speaker 2: it one more time. She does it again. I'm like, okay,

1980
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:03,479
Speaker 2: that's all I need. Come on, sit down the couch

1981
01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:06,120
Speaker 2: and I just comped all the vocal then and there,

1982
01:48:06,280 --> 01:48:08,519
Speaker 2: and it was it was like goose bumps. There's a

1983
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:12,120
Speaker 2: sounds of her voice that cuts like really, no one

1984
01:48:12,160 --> 01:48:16,560
Speaker 2: I've heard you know, Adele, you know someone putting it

1985
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:19,559
Speaker 2: in a magazine that she can set off car alarms.

1986
01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:23,639
Speaker 2: It's very strong her voice, and it was so much

1987
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:26,680
Speaker 2: better than me singing it. But she got a lot

1988
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:31,360
Speaker 2: of my intonations and just nailed it. It was incredible.

1989
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:35,240
Speaker 2: So that's how we started, and Avril and I became

1990
01:48:35,479 --> 01:48:38,719
Speaker 2: very close. We had this I call it well Josh

1991
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:41,559
Speaker 2: Sarabyn and La Read I got a handsOn. They just

1992
01:48:41,680 --> 01:48:44,320
Speaker 2: they listened to complicated and this song called Falling Down,

1993
01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:48,040
Speaker 2: which we did, which ended up in that movie Sweet

1994
01:48:48,040 --> 01:48:52,680
Speaker 2: Home Alabama, funnily enough, and they said send her right

1995
01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:56,120
Speaker 2: back there for the summer. So she came back for

1996
01:48:56,160 --> 01:48:58,640
Speaker 2: the whole summer and we had this crazy summer and

1997
01:48:58,680 --> 01:49:02,600
Speaker 2: we just wrote songs. I remember Josh coming round and

1998
01:49:02,680 --> 01:49:06,320
Speaker 2: us playing him skater Boy and him just like lighting up,

1999
01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:11,240
Speaker 2: and you know, like things don't often go the right

2000
01:49:11,240 --> 01:49:13,479
Speaker 2: way in life or the way you expect it. But

2001
01:49:13,720 --> 01:49:16,000
Speaker 2: when we wrote these songs, and then La Reid and

2002
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:20,240
Speaker 2: Josh Sarabyn said, Complicator is the first single, Skater Boys

2003
01:49:20,280 --> 01:49:23,040
Speaker 2: the second single, I'm with You's the third single. I'm like,

2004
01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:29,320
Speaker 2: sweet Jesus, thank you for making everything go right, you

2005
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:33,000
Speaker 2: know it just I'd never seen anything happen like that.

2006
01:49:33,160 --> 01:49:37,560
Speaker 2: And then it came out and we always had TRL

2007
01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:40,360
Speaker 2: on the TV in the background while we're working, so

2008
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:42,800
Speaker 2: that we're aware of what the hot songs are, what

2009
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:47,439
Speaker 2: Britney's doing and all that, and Avrol goes on and

2010
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:50,160
Speaker 2: suddenly we see like these like kind of sea of

2011
01:49:50,280 --> 01:49:57,280
Speaker 2: kids all singing Complicated, and I remember just crying, just thinking, Dahn,

2012
01:49:57,360 --> 01:50:00,599
Speaker 2: this is going to work out. You know. It was amazing,

2013
01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:05,000
Speaker 2: and it didn't stop that. You remember, Complicated was number

2014
01:50:05,000 --> 01:50:09,160
Speaker 2: one for I would say, I don't know, maybe like

2015
01:50:09,240 --> 01:50:13,200
Speaker 2: four months or five months. It was number one constantly,

2016
01:50:13,880 --> 01:50:17,680
Speaker 2: and then Skater Boy came out and went nuts, So

2017
01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:19,479
Speaker 2: we had the number one spot on the chart, I

2018
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:21,720
Speaker 2: would say for a year and a half, because then

2019
01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:25,680
Speaker 2: I'm with You came out, and of course then I

2020
01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:30,439
Speaker 2: wanted the next single to be this song anything but Ordinary,

2021
01:50:30,520 --> 01:50:33,400
Speaker 2: which was what I thought the first single should have been.

2022
01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:37,800
Speaker 2: And at that point, I think maybe Averrol's management were like,

2023
01:50:37,960 --> 01:50:40,360
Speaker 2: let's try something with something that the Matrix didn't do.

2024
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:43,840
Speaker 2: And I remember thinking, don't be greedy, Lauren. You've had

2025
01:50:44,520 --> 01:50:46,639
Speaker 2: a year and a half of number one songs. Your

2026
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:49,920
Speaker 2: life's been changed. Barbara Kane and E and I came

2027
01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:52,360
Speaker 2: and sat and talked to me and the guys and

2028
01:50:52,400 --> 01:50:56,679
Speaker 2: said would you like a check? And I was like, what,

2029
01:50:57,600 --> 01:51:00,599
Speaker 2: never made any major money in my life? Life and

2030
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 2: everything changed from that point.

2031
01:51:03,320 --> 01:51:07,759
Speaker 3: Okay, you have this success forgetting the money, which is good.

2032
01:51:08,800 --> 01:51:11,960
Speaker 3: What other opportunities come down the pike is a result

2033
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:13,519
Speaker 3: of this success.

2034
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:18,200
Speaker 2: So people want to work with the person who's number

2035
01:51:18,240 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 2: one on the chart. So a lot of people came

2036
01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:24,080
Speaker 2: through our studio and we had a lot of great success.

2037
01:51:24,120 --> 01:51:28,320
Speaker 2: We had a bank called Lilox. We had Jason Mraz

2038
01:51:28,400 --> 01:51:32,000
Speaker 2: come by and wrote the Remedy with him. We had

2039
01:51:32,240 --> 01:51:34,760
Speaker 2: Liz Fair come by and we wrote why Can't I,

2040
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:37,880
Speaker 2: which was a huge hit for us, and Extraordinary, which

2041
01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:42,320
Speaker 2: did very well too. A lot of things that miss too,

2042
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:45,600
Speaker 2: like you Know you Can't. They're not all hits, but

2043
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:49,479
Speaker 2: I would say we consistently kept having stuff on the chart,

2044
01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:52,720
Speaker 2: so much so that people at Sandy's office were complaining

2045
01:51:52,760 --> 01:51:55,479
Speaker 2: that he turned us into a cottage industry and they

2046
01:51:55,520 --> 01:51:57,880
Speaker 2: were leaving him because they were like, all you care

2047
01:51:57,880 --> 01:52:00,400
Speaker 2: about is the matrix. And he really did put a

2048
01:52:00,439 --> 01:52:02,640
Speaker 2: lot of time into us. But I think one of

2049
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:06,760
Speaker 2: the most incredible things that happened was that Korn decided

2050
01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:10,200
Speaker 2: that they wanted to try us out, and we had

2051
01:52:10,240 --> 01:52:14,400
Speaker 2: been kind of known as the people who did female artists.

2052
01:52:14,840 --> 01:52:17,960
Speaker 2: Shakira took us to Madrid and we spent a week

2053
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:20,400
Speaker 2: in a farmhouse with her and got the first single

2054
01:52:20,439 --> 01:52:24,120
Speaker 2: with her called Don't Bother. It was just wonderful opportunities

2055
01:52:24,200 --> 01:52:28,519
Speaker 2: over and over again. Heineken commercials where we were paid

2056
01:52:28,640 --> 01:52:31,519
Speaker 2: a lot of money to just rip off a song

2057
01:52:32,200 --> 01:52:35,520
Speaker 2: identical to make a new master of, like a Pussycat

2058
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:40,200
Speaker 2: Dolls song, movie stuff that we got asked to do.

2059
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:43,400
Speaker 2: David Bowie asked us to do a remix and we

2060
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:47,920
Speaker 2: got to like record vocals and Graham sang on it.

2061
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:51,080
Speaker 2: It was incredible. But Korn was an interesting one to

2062
01:52:51,160 --> 01:52:54,479
Speaker 2: us because one, I'd never done any music like that,

2063
01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:56,920
Speaker 2: and when I listened to it, I was like, Ugh,

2064
01:52:57,560 --> 01:53:01,479
Speaker 2: what new metal? What is there? But there was something

2065
01:53:01,479 --> 01:53:04,599
Speaker 2: about Jonathan's voice I loved, and I said, this guy's

2066
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:06,800
Speaker 2: an incredible singer. He's got really one of the best

2067
01:53:06,840 --> 01:53:08,880
Speaker 2: singers in the world. I would say, the notes he

2068
01:53:08,920 --> 01:53:12,880
Speaker 2: can hit, let's do it. So he was trying out

2069
01:53:13,040 --> 01:53:15,760
Speaker 2: a few different people to go in there, and I

2070
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:18,200
Speaker 2: think the idea was that this was their sixth album.

2071
01:53:18,280 --> 01:53:20,840
Speaker 2: They were out of a deal, the deal had ended,

2072
01:53:21,479 --> 01:53:24,559
Speaker 2: and they were just up for trying anything. And so

2073
01:53:25,160 --> 01:53:27,519
Speaker 2: we went along to the studio kind of nervous, the

2074
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:30,599
Speaker 2: three of us, and the whole band's there and they're

2075
01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:33,880
Speaker 2: like quite intimidating, these guys, and they looked at us

2076
01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:37,160
Speaker 2: like who the fuck are you guys like you pop guys,

2077
01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:39,720
Speaker 2: and we were like, Hi, nice to meet you. And

2078
01:53:39,880 --> 01:53:42,479
Speaker 2: Graham and I went out in the live room with them,

2079
01:53:42,479 --> 01:53:45,000
Speaker 2: and Graham picked up the guitar and it just drew

2080
01:53:45,080 --> 01:53:48,800
Speaker 2: a blank. They looked at us like you guys are

2081
01:53:48,840 --> 01:53:51,800
Speaker 2: about to be kicked out the studio. That's the vibe

2082
01:53:51,800 --> 01:53:55,360
Speaker 2: they gave to us. And I was like ooh, and

2083
01:53:55,439 --> 01:53:59,600
Speaker 2: I think Scott said, let's have them play. Let's have

2084
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:03,040
Speaker 2: them So all this stuff was set up. It was

2085
01:54:03,080 --> 01:54:06,120
Speaker 2: their studio, so all the drums are already miked, and

2086
01:54:06,240 --> 01:54:08,680
Speaker 2: we said just jam and so they went in and

2087
01:54:08,720 --> 01:54:16,920
Speaker 2: started playing this thing and so it was like and

2088
01:54:16,960 --> 01:54:19,880
Speaker 2: it had all their the guitars that have been like

2089
01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:23,599
Speaker 2: tuned down the way they do it. And then that

2090
01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:25,519
Speaker 2: night we said goodbye and they all looked at us

2091
01:54:25,600 --> 01:54:28,000
Speaker 2: like see ya, like we'll never see you guys again.

2092
01:54:28,160 --> 01:54:31,000
Speaker 2: We didn't do anything except record them, and then that

2093
01:54:31,320 --> 01:54:38,520
Speaker 2: night stayed up half the night. Chris Holmes, our engineer,

2094
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:43,240
Speaker 2: Scott Spark, edited this recording of them into what we

2095
01:54:43,280 --> 01:54:46,240
Speaker 2: would call a pop song with a verse, a pre,

2096
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:54,840
Speaker 2: a chorus, bridge, everything, and I came up with this

2097
01:54:54,920 --> 01:54:59,440
Speaker 2: lyric twisted Transistor, and I had like a verse and

2098
01:54:59,480 --> 01:55:03,080
Speaker 2: a pre and a chorus. Went back in the next day,

2099
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:08,240
Speaker 2: Graham and Scott and I came up with melodies to

2100
01:55:08,320 --> 01:55:11,400
Speaker 2: these lyrics that I'd written, and we were like, we're

2101
01:55:11,400 --> 01:55:14,320
Speaker 2: about to for sure get kicked out today, Let's just

2102
01:55:14,640 --> 01:55:17,320
Speaker 2: shoot for the moon because who cares, right. It was

2103
01:55:17,360 --> 01:55:22,080
Speaker 2: a fun experience for our rolodex of memories, right, and

2104
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:26,440
Speaker 2: we played the track and they were all like, yeah,

2105
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:29,080
Speaker 2: that's good. And I said, Jonathan, I've got this idea.

2106
01:55:29,880 --> 01:55:31,440
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're gonna like it, but here

2107
01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:35,080
Speaker 2: we go like, hey you, hey, you Devil's little sister,

2108
01:55:35,640 --> 01:55:40,120
Speaker 2: listening to your twisted turns sister. Hold it between your legs,

2109
01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:44,440
Speaker 2: turn it up, turn it up. Vibrations coming too, you

2110
01:55:44,520 --> 01:55:47,360
Speaker 2: know this? And he's like, what the fuck is this?

2111
01:55:47,840 --> 01:55:52,120
Speaker 4: And then I like, because the music, dude, and it

2112
01:55:52,320 --> 01:55:58,800
Speaker 4: is reaching inside you forever preaching fuck you two. Your

2113
01:55:58,800 --> 01:56:02,840
Speaker 4: screams are whisper heng oh you twisted jan sister.

2114
01:56:03,280 --> 01:56:05,520
Speaker 2: And he's like, what the fuck is this? And I said,

2115
01:56:05,560 --> 01:56:07,280
Speaker 2: I don't know, but would you try singing it? And

2116
01:56:07,320 --> 01:56:11,200
Speaker 2: he's like, I'll try singing it. He got up on

2117
01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:15,360
Speaker 2: the mic and it sounded incredible. I have the video

2118
01:56:15,400 --> 01:56:22,840
Speaker 2: of me recording him. And then we wrote the rest

2119
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:26,880
Speaker 2: of the pre together, Jonathan and I. We wrote the

2120
01:56:26,920 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 2: rest of the lyrics, so the next verse we kind

2121
01:56:29,200 --> 01:56:31,640
Speaker 2: of put a bridge together and all the rest of

2122
01:56:31,640 --> 01:56:35,080
Speaker 2: the band Field monkey. I can see they're thinking what's

2123
01:56:35,120 --> 01:56:37,320
Speaker 2: going on here? And Jonathan was kind of in it

2124
01:56:37,360 --> 01:56:41,120
Speaker 2: at that point, and so I took a chance. As

2125
01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:43,040
Speaker 2: we were about to leave at the end of the day,

2126
01:56:43,160 --> 01:56:47,200
Speaker 2: I went up to him and we had a three

2127
01:56:47,240 --> 01:56:50,240
Speaker 2: week holiday that we'd convinced Sandy to give all of

2128
01:56:50,320 --> 01:56:53,280
Speaker 2: us because we'd been working so hard. It was kind

2129
01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:56,360
Speaker 2: of nuts. And I went up to Jonathan at the

2130
01:56:56,440 --> 01:56:58,320
Speaker 2: end of the day and I said, we've got a

2131
01:56:58,320 --> 01:57:01,720
Speaker 2: three week holiday starting tomorrow. Do you want us to

2132
01:57:01,720 --> 01:57:04,480
Speaker 2: come in and work with you because we could cancel

2133
01:57:04,520 --> 01:57:09,280
Speaker 2: our holiday, And he didn't really react. I remember going

2134
01:57:09,280 --> 01:57:11,920
Speaker 2: out for dinner that night and Sandy calls me while

2135
01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:13,480
Speaker 2: I'm at dinner and he says, your book for the

2136
01:57:13,480 --> 01:57:18,680
Speaker 2: next three weeks with Corn. So we go in and

2137
01:57:18,880 --> 01:57:23,680
Speaker 2: we recorded twenty three songs with them in three weeks,

2138
01:57:24,240 --> 01:57:28,120
Speaker 2: and they got their huge Live Nation deal off the

2139
01:57:28,160 --> 01:57:33,560
Speaker 2: back of those songs, and had we wrote Coming Undone

2140
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:37,800
Speaker 2: and that's their second biggest song to this day, it's

2141
01:57:37,800 --> 01:57:42,240
Speaker 2: one of my favorites. And I'm still friends with Jonathan,

2142
01:57:42,400 --> 01:57:46,000
Speaker 2: really good friends to this day, and I've worked with him.

2143
01:57:46,120 --> 01:57:49,760
Speaker 2: Then we did the entire next album too, called The

2144
01:57:49,800 --> 01:57:51,720
Speaker 2: first one was called See You on the Other Side,

2145
01:57:52,160 --> 01:57:55,040
Speaker 2: and then that was their sixth album. Their seventh album

2146
01:57:55,200 --> 01:58:01,920
Speaker 2: was untitled. We did that one too, and I have

2147
01:58:02,160 --> 01:58:06,680
Speaker 2: worked on their record, I don't know three years ago

2148
01:58:07,160 --> 01:58:10,120
Speaker 2: and had a number one at rock with them. I

2149
01:58:10,160 --> 01:58:12,920
Speaker 2: still work with him. I did his song with him

2150
01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:17,200
Speaker 2: with Gary Clark what It Is on Jonathan's solo record,

2151
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:21,640
Speaker 2: and a couple of others. He's probably my favorite person

2152
01:58:21,720 --> 01:58:25,640
Speaker 2: in the music business as an artist, because it's just

2153
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:29,800
Speaker 2: he loves that band, it's his band, and he just

2154
01:58:30,040 --> 01:58:33,440
Speaker 2: he nurtures it like it's a never ending thing. And

2155
01:58:33,520 --> 01:58:37,200
Speaker 2: I feel like they're ageless. You know, they're on tour

2156
01:58:37,280 --> 01:58:38,960
Speaker 2: right now. I'm going to go see them in November.

2157
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:45,080
Speaker 3: Unbelievable, Okay, but the matrix was not timeless and endless.

2158
01:58:45,080 --> 01:58:45,880
Speaker 3: How did that end?

2159
01:58:47,560 --> 01:58:50,360
Speaker 2: Well, you know, my marriage fell apart in two thousand

2160
01:58:50,360 --> 01:58:54,839
Speaker 2: and eight, and we kept it going for another two years,

2161
01:58:54,920 --> 01:58:58,640
Speaker 2: working constantly because again that's a hard cruise ship to

2162
01:58:58,680 --> 01:59:02,640
Speaker 2: turn around. But then slowly people start to find out

2163
01:59:02,640 --> 01:59:07,680
Speaker 2: the interests Scott. He's a very clever guy, and he

2164
01:59:07,720 --> 01:59:10,480
Speaker 2: also had a big interest in cars, and he built

2165
01:59:11,120 --> 01:59:14,920
Speaker 2: a car, a charger, and he did it all himself,

2166
01:59:15,040 --> 01:59:17,480
Speaker 2: and then that car became the main car and the

2167
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:20,080
Speaker 2: Fast and Furious. You know, it's the famous car from

2168
01:59:20,080 --> 01:59:24,440
Speaker 2: the First and Furious. It's called Maximus. And so Scott

2169
01:59:24,560 --> 01:59:29,560
Speaker 2: had that interest and Graham, like had some other interests.

2170
01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:32,960
Speaker 2: And also I just felt it was a little unhealthy

2171
01:59:33,200 --> 01:59:35,760
Speaker 2: that I was still working with my ex husband all

2172
01:59:35,760 --> 01:59:42,280
Speaker 2: the time, and and Donna called me and said, will

2173
01:59:42,320 --> 01:59:44,560
Speaker 2: you go to a session with this guy DJ Frankie,

2174
01:59:44,560 --> 01:59:46,839
Speaker 2: And I hadn't really done many sessions outside the matrix,

2175
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:49,080
Speaker 2: and this is just to go as a writer. And

2176
01:59:49,400 --> 01:59:52,160
Speaker 2: I went and popped a hit. I wrote this song

2177
01:59:52,200 --> 01:59:55,320
Speaker 2: Tonight I'm Fucking You. It was called and I didn't

2178
01:59:55,320 --> 01:59:56,760
Speaker 2: want it to be called that at all. I wanted

2179
01:59:56,800 --> 01:59:58,440
Speaker 2: to be called Tonight I'm loving You, which is how

2180
01:59:58,520 --> 02:00:01,600
Speaker 2: it is how it went to radio. But we wrote

2181
02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:03,400
Speaker 2: that song and three weeks later it was number one

2182
02:00:03,480 --> 02:00:06,320
Speaker 2: all around the world. I've never had anything happen so fast,

2183
02:00:07,000 --> 02:00:10,960
Speaker 2: and so then suddenly I'm in demand as a writer

2184
02:00:11,080 --> 02:00:12,920
Speaker 2: on my own, and it was just a breath of

2185
02:00:12,920 --> 02:00:14,760
Speaker 2: fresh air to not be in the studio every day

2186
02:00:14,760 --> 02:00:16,640
Speaker 2: with my ex husband. And that's the truth, that's kind

2187
02:00:16,680 --> 02:00:23,120
Speaker 2: of And Scott was losing interest. You know, you run

2188
02:00:23,160 --> 02:00:26,520
Speaker 2: something for ten years, like everybody grows apart a little

2189
02:00:26,560 --> 02:00:30,000
Speaker 2: bit and it just doesn't seem as fun. But it's

2190
02:00:30,120 --> 02:00:33,520
Speaker 2: very amicable, you know, no hard feelings. And I've still

2191
02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:38,480
Speaker 2: worked with Graham to this day. Things will come up

2192
02:00:38,520 --> 02:00:39,360
Speaker 2: and we'll do it together.

2193
02:00:40,760 --> 02:00:42,040
Speaker 3: Did he ever get remarried.

2194
02:00:42,880 --> 02:00:45,680
Speaker 2: Yes, he's remarried and has two lovely children. He's married

2195
02:00:45,680 --> 02:00:49,200
Speaker 2: to Sarah Weinstein and has William and Emily his children.

2196
02:00:49,720 --> 02:00:53,240
Speaker 2: And he's just being nominated for an Emmy, a second

2197
02:00:53,280 --> 02:00:57,280
Speaker 2: Emmy for his wife. Works for PBS and makes wonderful

2198
02:00:57,280 --> 02:00:59,840
Speaker 2: documentaries and he does a lot of the music for them.

2199
02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:02,440
Speaker 2: So he's still got a lovely life in music.

2200
02:01:03,560 --> 02:01:05,280
Speaker 3: How do you ended up working with bb Rex?

2201
02:01:08,120 --> 02:01:10,520
Speaker 2: Bb Rex that I met on the steps at the

2202
02:01:10,520 --> 02:01:14,640
Speaker 2: bm My Awards and someone said, uh, I think it

2203
02:01:14,680 --> 02:01:16,480
Speaker 2: was Samantha Cox at B and My. You guys should

2204
02:01:16,480 --> 02:01:21,760
Speaker 2: work together, and she hit me up. We did a

2205
02:01:21,760 --> 02:01:24,120
Speaker 2: couple of things. First song we did together with a

2206
02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:26,760
Speaker 2: song called I'm Going to Show You Crazy. She said

2207
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:28,840
Speaker 2: that a couple of producers had said, nah, that's no good.

2208
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:32,080
Speaker 2: We did it and it went to number one. I

2209
02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:35,000
Speaker 2: think in Germany it was it wasn't huge in America,

2210
02:01:35,080 --> 02:01:38,040
Speaker 2: but it's kind of sealed our deal of writing together.

2211
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:42,440
Speaker 2: And we loved it. And BB's actually a genius writer.

2212
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:45,320
Speaker 2: She's a trumpet player, and her melodies, if you look

2213
02:01:45,320 --> 02:01:47,920
Speaker 2: at that, hey my mam, mama, hama, I'm getting the

2214
02:01:48,040 --> 02:01:52,240
Speaker 2: JOm like them did they She's she's like messing with

2215
02:01:52,360 --> 02:01:55,560
Speaker 2: like trumpet rhythms and melodies. She's so cool, and we

2216
02:01:55,640 --> 02:01:59,080
Speaker 2: had a period of time where we just worked probably

2217
02:01:59,160 --> 02:02:02,200
Speaker 2: four times a week, did some really great work together.

2218
02:02:03,040 --> 02:02:04,680
Speaker 2: One of my favorite songs I've ever done is Me

2219
02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:11,120
Speaker 2: Myself and I and I Got You Last Hurrah. My

2220
02:02:11,240 --> 02:02:15,000
Speaker 2: favorite song is a Bad Bitch Gateway Drug and Small Doses.

2221
02:02:15,160 --> 02:02:17,320
Speaker 2: And she actually just hit me up like three days

2222
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:19,520
Speaker 2: ago and said I need songs like these three again,

2223
02:02:19,840 --> 02:02:22,200
Speaker 2: and I'm like, let's do it, you know, because we

2224
02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:28,440
Speaker 2: have something special. She'll she'll like, the hardest thing is

2225
02:02:29,400 --> 02:02:32,240
Speaker 2: having people who respect you. You know, sometimes you meet

2226
02:02:32,320 --> 02:02:35,000
Speaker 2: new artists and they hear or your old stuff, but

2227
02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:36,360
Speaker 2: they don't know what you did in it. So it's

2228
02:02:36,400 --> 02:02:38,480
Speaker 2: really nice when you've got someone who respects you. He'll say,

2229
02:02:38,480 --> 02:02:41,280
Speaker 2: hold hold up, listen to Lauren what she's doing and

2230
02:02:41,480 --> 02:02:44,960
Speaker 2: I feel the same about her, like I trust in

2231
02:02:45,040 --> 02:02:47,680
Speaker 2: her instinct. She really can make things great.

2232
02:02:48,800 --> 02:02:52,400
Speaker 3: Okay, what happens if you have success with somebody and

2233
02:02:52,480 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 3: then they go to work with somebody else.

2234
02:02:56,640 --> 02:03:00,360
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, of course, it's endless heartbreak over and

2235
02:03:00,520 --> 02:03:03,880
Speaker 2: over and over when you because you feel like you

2236
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:06,400
Speaker 2: have this special connection. But you know, I kind of

2237
02:03:06,440 --> 02:03:13,680
Speaker 2: feel like artists are bees and we're the flowers, the producer, songwriters,

2238
02:03:14,400 --> 02:03:17,360
Speaker 2: and the bee wants to go from flower to flower

2239
02:03:18,040 --> 02:03:20,160
Speaker 2: and that's okay. You just have to be okay with that,

2240
02:03:20,720 --> 02:03:23,160
Speaker 2: and it's averroll. I didn't work on her second album,

2241
02:03:23,560 --> 02:03:26,040
Speaker 2: and I'm a big believer, if you know, don't go

2242
02:03:26,160 --> 02:03:30,600
Speaker 2: where you're not invited. And it served me well. So

2243
02:03:30,880 --> 02:03:35,680
Speaker 2: I just don't really worry about it because people always

2244
02:03:35,680 --> 02:03:39,920
Speaker 2: come back. You know. I've never really fallen out with anyone,

2245
02:03:40,840 --> 02:03:43,960
Speaker 2: and so it's people will come back because they remember

2246
02:03:44,040 --> 02:03:46,880
Speaker 2: the experience they had, and it's just they know that

2247
02:03:46,920 --> 02:03:50,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to take it seriously and I really want

2248
02:03:50,040 --> 02:03:52,440
Speaker 2: what's best for them, so I don't. I try not

2249
02:03:52,520 --> 02:03:53,280
Speaker 2: to trip too much.

2250
02:03:54,400 --> 02:03:58,240
Speaker 3: Okay, you've been in US for a long time and

2251
02:03:58,320 --> 02:04:01,440
Speaker 3: I love Los Angeles too. What do people in America.

2252
02:04:02,200 --> 02:04:04,960
Speaker 3: Not get about the UK. What is different?

2253
02:04:06,280 --> 02:04:09,840
Speaker 2: M I mean, because I'm so out of touch with

2254
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:11,760
Speaker 2: the UK. I did go back for the first time

2255
02:04:11,840 --> 02:04:15,360
Speaker 2: in sixteen years last year. Literally I had a sixteen

2256
02:04:15,440 --> 02:04:17,600
Speaker 2: year break and that was because I moved my parents out.

2257
02:04:17,680 --> 02:04:19,640
Speaker 2: My parents my mom had a stroke and my dad

2258
02:04:19,680 --> 02:04:21,880
Speaker 2: had dementia, so I moved them out to live in

2259
02:04:22,080 --> 02:04:25,200
Speaker 2: la and my brother was already here. I have cousins here.

2260
02:04:25,560 --> 02:04:28,360
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, the valley along Venturrea a boulevard

2261
02:04:28,480 --> 02:04:31,040
Speaker 2: is littered with my family and we all play tennis together.

2262
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:35,640
Speaker 2: My brother and sisters back in England, though, so they

2263
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:38,920
Speaker 2: would come and visit us. I felt like I had

2264
02:04:39,160 --> 02:04:41,320
Speaker 2: no connection to what it's like to be in the

2265
02:04:41,400 --> 02:04:45,520
Speaker 2: music business in the UK. And it's just because I

2266
02:04:45,600 --> 02:04:47,600
Speaker 2: made it in America and not there, and they've had

2267
02:04:47,760 --> 02:04:50,280
Speaker 2: I probably have more success internationally than I do even

2268
02:04:50,320 --> 02:04:52,680
Speaker 2: in America from my songs when I look at my statements,

2269
02:04:53,280 --> 02:04:56,400
Speaker 2: but I would say that it's quite difficult in Los

2270
02:04:56,440 --> 02:05:00,320
Speaker 2: Angeles to say, you know, it's like a jaded ordience

2271
02:05:00,400 --> 02:05:04,040
Speaker 2: to get them out to performances. And in England, my

2272
02:05:04,200 --> 02:05:07,920
Speaker 2: daughter's just open for Manchester Orchestra at Union Chapel in

2273
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:11,600
Speaker 2: Islington last year and I went as like Mamager T

2274
02:05:11,800 --> 02:05:15,800
Speaker 2: shirt sales lady because I wanted to see my family

2275
02:05:16,120 --> 02:05:20,320
Speaker 2: and also just support my kids. And what I realized

2276
02:05:20,880 --> 02:05:23,640
Speaker 2: is that people take it a lot more seriously going

2277
02:05:23,680 --> 02:05:26,240
Speaker 2: to see live music. You could hear a pin drop

2278
02:05:26,400 --> 02:05:29,080
Speaker 2: people that were there, like there's no alcohol allowed in

2279
02:05:29,120 --> 02:05:31,920
Speaker 2: this place because it's an old church, and people were

2280
02:05:32,040 --> 02:05:34,840
Speaker 2: just there to like soak up the music. So I

2281
02:05:34,960 --> 02:05:38,400
Speaker 2: think there is kind of something special. Because my daughter's

2282
02:05:38,440 --> 02:05:40,560
Speaker 2: the Citizens of UK two, they're going to go over

2283
02:05:40,640 --> 02:05:43,320
Speaker 2: and spend some time there working because they just loved it.

2284
02:05:43,960 --> 02:05:46,200
Speaker 2: And so I think that's the difference, is that it's

2285
02:05:46,240 --> 02:05:48,240
Speaker 2: a good place to really sort of incubate if you're

2286
02:05:48,240 --> 02:05:52,120
Speaker 2: an artist, because there's so much support on the live scene,

2287
02:05:52,560 --> 02:05:58,240
Speaker 2: you know, But there's no place like La. Bob Yeah, yeah,

2288
02:05:58,560 --> 02:05:59,840
Speaker 2: became the capital of the world.

2289
02:06:00,000 --> 02:06:02,600
Speaker 3: I could complain about La all day long, but there's

2290
02:06:02,680 --> 02:06:03,840
Speaker 3: nowhere I'd rather live.

2291
02:06:04,840 --> 02:06:07,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, okayd the traffic case tell.

2292
02:06:07,240 --> 02:06:10,520
Speaker 3: And all this other stuff, but I'm not moving. But

2293
02:06:10,680 --> 02:06:15,000
Speaker 3: in any event, you had a couple of solo albums

2294
02:06:15,240 --> 02:06:19,680
Speaker 3: with major label releases. You had some success in addition

2295
02:06:19,800 --> 02:06:21,720
Speaker 3: to being a songwriter. If someone were to listen to

2296
02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:26,160
Speaker 3: those records, you have a very good voice. To what

2297
02:06:26,480 --> 02:06:30,480
Speaker 3: degree in the back of your mind do you say, hmm,

2298
02:06:31,200 --> 02:06:37,320
Speaker 3: if only I wish, or you're totally happy where you are? Oh?

2299
02:06:37,600 --> 02:06:41,040
Speaker 2: No, I'm totally happy where I am because the most

2300
02:06:41,120 --> 02:06:42,640
Speaker 2: important thing to me is that I wanted to be

2301
02:06:42,680 --> 02:06:45,600
Speaker 2: a mother. It was like in belt to me since

2302
02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:47,640
Speaker 2: I don't know when, like probably when I was a kid,

2303
02:06:47,920 --> 02:06:49,640
Speaker 2: to want to be a mum, And there was a

2304
02:06:49,680 --> 02:06:52,360
Speaker 2: time when I was twenty nine and it wasn't going

2305
02:06:52,440 --> 02:06:53,760
Speaker 2: right for me that I was like, how do I

2306
02:06:53,880 --> 02:06:57,240
Speaker 2: have kids? And so to being blessed to have the

2307
02:06:57,280 --> 02:06:59,200
Speaker 2: stability of being able to make money and to be

2308
02:06:59,280 --> 02:07:01,520
Speaker 2: able to own a how elson be able to be

2309
02:07:01,640 --> 02:07:06,680
Speaker 2: around my kids, and it's just been incredible. There was

2310
02:07:06,720 --> 02:07:08,800
Speaker 2: a moment where I was very sad, like when I

2311
02:07:08,880 --> 02:07:10,600
Speaker 2: had that song in the Color of Night and it

2312
02:07:10,720 --> 02:07:12,560
Speaker 2: was really about to pop off, and there was some

2313
02:07:12,760 --> 02:07:15,520
Speaker 2: political stuff at the label that caused it to get

2314
02:07:15,640 --> 02:07:18,880
Speaker 2: kind of shelved, and that was very upsetting to me

2315
02:07:19,080 --> 02:07:22,680
Speaker 2: because it was kind of my shot. I saw like

2316
02:07:22,880 --> 02:07:26,000
Speaker 2: stardom for a second, and the label was ready to

2317
02:07:26,040 --> 02:07:28,520
Speaker 2: make it happen, and I can't really go into it

2318
02:07:28,600 --> 02:07:32,480
Speaker 2: because I'll get sued, But something happened. One day, I'll

2319
02:07:32,480 --> 02:07:35,240
Speaker 2: put it in a book where another act had to

2320
02:07:35,400 --> 02:07:40,040
Speaker 2: like basically said stop promoting that it's going to get

2321
02:07:40,080 --> 02:07:42,360
Speaker 2: in the way of us. And they were a big act.

2322
02:07:44,640 --> 02:07:47,040
Speaker 2: But no, sooner had I given up that dream. I

2323
02:07:47,160 --> 02:07:52,920
Speaker 2: told you, like on that plane, I'm tough, I was like, no,

2324
02:07:53,400 --> 02:07:57,440
Speaker 2: look forward, don't look back. And so, as you probably know,

2325
02:07:57,480 --> 02:08:01,360
Speaker 2: I've I decided after twenty five years of not releasing

2326
02:08:01,400 --> 02:08:04,240
Speaker 2: any music that it might be time to just have

2327
02:08:04,560 --> 02:08:07,720
Speaker 2: fun because I have the ability to make music for free.

2328
02:08:09,520 --> 02:08:13,720
Speaker 2: So I started doing this. There hits My Way project

2329
02:08:14,160 --> 02:08:17,400
Speaker 2: and it's just all my biggest songs I've done reimagined

2330
02:08:17,480 --> 02:08:20,320
Speaker 2: versions and they're one take vocals because I was like,

2331
02:08:20,440 --> 02:08:22,120
Speaker 2: the last thing I'm going to do is get in

2332
02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:24,840
Speaker 2: there and be like, you know, taking everyone's time up,

2333
02:08:24,960 --> 02:08:27,080
Speaker 2: Like no, just got to be perfect. So I made

2334
02:08:27,120 --> 02:08:30,200
Speaker 2: sure it's literally one take vocals on each one. And

2335
02:08:32,120 --> 02:08:34,560
Speaker 2: I've loved it. But I can't tell you that I

2336
02:08:35,400 --> 02:08:39,680
Speaker 2: would like to be Adele or Taylor Swift. I think

2337
02:08:39,760 --> 02:08:44,080
Speaker 2: it's it's an It's incredibly hard work to you know,

2338
02:08:44,160 --> 02:08:46,200
Speaker 2: I said to my girls, do you realize that the

2339
02:08:46,360 --> 02:08:50,040
Speaker 2: destination if you're successful is to be on planes traveling

2340
02:08:50,080 --> 02:08:53,040
Speaker 2: around the world and performing great, big places and selling

2341
02:08:53,080 --> 02:08:55,680
Speaker 2: T shirts. That's where all the money is, right and

2342
02:08:56,640 --> 02:08:59,600
Speaker 2: so are you game for it? Because I think now

2343
02:09:00,000 --> 02:09:02,360
Speaker 2: so it's kind of serendipitous that I ended up going

2344
02:09:02,400 --> 02:09:04,840
Speaker 2: behind the scenes because I'm kind of a homebody. I

2345
02:09:05,000 --> 02:09:06,680
Speaker 2: like to be home with my cats in my pool.

2346
02:09:07,120 --> 02:09:09,200
Speaker 2: If I'm not in a session, I'm with my mom

2347
02:09:09,920 --> 02:09:12,960
Speaker 2: and my brother and his new baby and the family

2348
02:09:13,160 --> 02:09:14,200
Speaker 2: and hanging with my kids.

2349
02:09:14,480 --> 02:09:18,480
Speaker 3: So do you think there's any parallel to your father

2350
02:09:18,600 --> 02:09:22,240
Speaker 3: being a comedian and then coming home to you being

2351
02:09:22,280 --> 02:09:25,680
Speaker 3: an artist, and then being home and shifting to behind

2352
02:09:25,720 --> 02:09:26,120
Speaker 3: the scenes.

2353
02:09:26,240 --> 02:09:28,320
Speaker 2: Gusha, nobody's ever said that to me, But it's kind

2354
02:09:28,320 --> 02:09:30,360
Speaker 2: of making sense now, is that. I have to say

2355
02:09:30,440 --> 02:09:33,840
Speaker 2: my parents had the most incredibly happy marriage, and my

2356
02:09:33,960 --> 02:09:36,760
Speaker 2: mom says it's because dad quit doing show business to

2357
02:09:36,840 --> 02:09:41,200
Speaker 2: stay home. And you know, I have no regrets, because

2358
02:09:41,640 --> 02:09:43,600
Speaker 2: I just don't know if that would have worked out

2359
02:09:43,680 --> 02:09:46,840
Speaker 2: for me. My equilibrium's not so good to be like

2360
02:09:47,120 --> 02:09:49,200
Speaker 2: shot on, like off on tour, and I did do

2361
02:09:49,320 --> 02:09:52,640
Speaker 2: quite a lot of touring I opened for Kenny Loggins

2362
02:09:52,680 --> 02:09:55,360
Speaker 2: at Red Rocks. I got the taste of it. Chastain

2363
02:09:55,520 --> 02:09:58,400
Speaker 2: Park in Atlanta did Kenny g and I got to

2364
02:09:58,520 --> 02:10:04,800
Speaker 2: do some amazing thing. But my true love is making records.

2365
02:10:05,880 --> 02:10:09,000
Speaker 2: It's exhilarating to me being in the studio. I say,

2366
02:10:10,240 --> 02:10:13,160
Speaker 2: that's the hit for me in that moment when you

2367
02:10:13,240 --> 02:10:15,760
Speaker 2: write the song. I feel like every song edifies God.

2368
02:10:16,480 --> 02:10:18,600
Speaker 2: Even if it's a mediocre song, it's not the best.

2369
02:10:18,680 --> 02:10:21,600
Speaker 2: If it's a six, it's not an eleven. So I

2370
02:10:22,120 --> 02:10:25,720
Speaker 2: feel that that's the excitement for me, more exciting than

2371
02:10:25,800 --> 02:10:27,920
Speaker 2: really like, it's so funny. We're on the road with

2372
02:10:27,960 --> 02:10:31,200
Speaker 2: our girls and they're playing like the Fox Theater in Oakland,

2373
02:10:31,560 --> 02:10:35,640
Speaker 2: and it's so like, this is four thousand sister ed

2374
02:10:35,760 --> 02:10:38,800
Speaker 2: Sheeran's playing there in two days time after my girls

2375
02:10:38,840 --> 02:10:40,960
Speaker 2: and I said, girls, this is it. You see this

2376
02:10:41,120 --> 02:10:43,560
Speaker 2: dressing room, how cold and dark it is and shabby

2377
02:10:43,600 --> 02:10:47,840
Speaker 2: and cold, and this is it. This is the big time,

2378
02:10:48,280 --> 02:10:50,760
Speaker 2: you know, And I said, and the really big time

2379
02:10:50,840 --> 02:10:53,880
Speaker 2: will be flying on a private jet everywhere and going

2380
02:10:53,920 --> 02:10:55,960
Speaker 2: into the dressing room and then getting out on stage.

2381
02:10:56,040 --> 02:10:59,240
Speaker 2: And that's really great for me. It's more exciting being

2382
02:10:59,320 --> 02:11:04,640
Speaker 2: in the lab, creating something that could be viral on TikTok.

2383
02:11:04,760 --> 02:11:06,320
Speaker 2: Let's face it. It may not be on the radio

2384
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:08,520
Speaker 2: today because it's so hard to get on there. But

2385
02:11:08,920 --> 02:11:12,680
Speaker 2: you know, I'm about like touching people and changing people's

2386
02:11:13,080 --> 02:11:16,120
Speaker 2: feeling in their heart for the day and lifting people up.

2387
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:18,520
Speaker 2: And I can do that just from sitting in a

2388
02:11:18,560 --> 02:11:22,240
Speaker 2: little studio. Now, this is the best gig ever.

2389
02:11:22,840 --> 02:11:26,040
Speaker 3: Okay, you're doing all this work. Do you ever go

2390
02:11:26,160 --> 02:11:28,680
Speaker 3: on vacation and can you turn it off? Or in

2391
02:11:28,800 --> 02:11:30,120
Speaker 3: your mind? Is it always going?

2392
02:11:30,920 --> 02:11:34,360
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm good at relaxing. I'm really good at relaxing.

2393
02:11:34,640 --> 02:11:36,840
Speaker 2: But the thing is is that I always have my

2394
02:11:36,960 --> 02:11:40,000
Speaker 2: phone next to me, and there's always like ideas. I'll

2395
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:42,760
Speaker 2: watch a movie and just go, oh, that line, I

2396
02:11:42,880 --> 02:11:45,000
Speaker 2: teach this in my masterclass. Just write it down in

2397
02:11:45,080 --> 02:11:48,520
Speaker 2: new lyric notes. Or I'll start crying about something in

2398
02:11:48,600 --> 02:11:52,120
Speaker 2: a movie and I'm like, oh am I crying? Oh

2399
02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:54,560
Speaker 2: it's because of that. Write that down in your lyric notes.

2400
02:11:54,800 --> 02:11:56,480
Speaker 2: So it's like a never ending thing. I mean, I'm

2401
02:11:56,520 --> 02:11:59,240
Speaker 2: a songwriter, it's my whole. My husband says, who you

2402
02:11:59,280 --> 02:12:01,000
Speaker 2: are is not what you'd do, and I'm like, hmm,

2403
02:12:01,880 --> 02:12:04,200
Speaker 2: I think it might be. I think who I am

2404
02:12:04,400 --> 02:12:07,280
Speaker 2: is what I do. So I do take vacations, but

2405
02:12:07,360 --> 02:12:10,600
Speaker 2: it's normally like last year, I did the go back

2406
02:12:10,640 --> 02:12:14,280
Speaker 2: to see my family and that was very important. Family

2407
02:12:14,400 --> 02:12:18,720
Speaker 2: is so important to me. I'll take I so my

2408
02:12:18,800 --> 02:12:21,040
Speaker 2: mom off to Newport Beach to see all the Christmas

2409
02:12:21,080 --> 02:12:23,800
Speaker 2: ships go down and Balboa Island, all all the ships

2410
02:12:23,840 --> 02:12:25,840
Speaker 2: are decorated, and I love it and I can just

2411
02:12:26,400 --> 02:12:28,520
Speaker 2: i can switch off and relax. I'll go down to

2412
02:12:28,600 --> 02:12:31,720
Speaker 2: the Coronado Hotel for two days. It's just paradise here.

2413
02:12:31,760 --> 02:12:34,800
Speaker 2: As we said, I got to Lake Arrowhead. It's normally

2414
02:12:34,840 --> 02:12:38,120
Speaker 2: when I'm completely exhausted and I've just finished a project,

2415
02:12:38,680 --> 02:12:40,720
Speaker 2: mixing it and everything, and I'm just like, I need

2416
02:12:40,800 --> 02:12:43,640
Speaker 2: two days off and I'll take these like mini breaks.

2417
02:12:44,360 --> 02:12:47,880
Speaker 2: But I have not gone to Spain or you know.

2418
02:12:48,160 --> 02:12:51,240
Speaker 2: And my parents also traveled us as kids. We had

2419
02:12:51,280 --> 02:12:53,960
Speaker 2: a home in Spain, and so I felt like the

2420
02:12:54,040 --> 02:12:56,080
Speaker 2: first part of my life we were in New Zealand,

2421
02:12:56,160 --> 02:13:00,640
Speaker 2: where my mom's from Australia. I've been to call Through

2422
02:13:00,680 --> 02:13:03,720
Speaker 2: and Greece. I've been so many amazing South of France

2423
02:13:03,840 --> 02:13:07,120
Speaker 2: making albums. Madrid with Shakira I'm like, yeah, I've seen Europe.

2424
02:13:07,240 --> 02:13:11,200
Speaker 2: It's amazing, but I'm not jonesing to go back to.

2425
02:13:12,720 --> 02:13:13,080
Speaker 3: To do that.

2426
02:13:13,240 --> 02:13:14,920
Speaker 2: And the reason I would go back to England is

2427
02:13:15,000 --> 02:13:16,880
Speaker 2: because I love my family and I want to see

2428
02:13:16,920 --> 02:13:19,000
Speaker 2: them or my girls. I have to go on tour

2429
02:13:19,040 --> 02:13:21,560
Speaker 2: and they need me and they want mom to come.

2430
02:13:22,040 --> 02:13:24,400
Speaker 2: You know, they don't even need me anymore, so that's

2431
02:13:24,440 --> 02:13:27,800
Speaker 2: not going to happen. But I don't really take vacations now.

2432
02:13:29,400 --> 02:13:32,400
Speaker 3: Well, thanks so much for taking this time to speak

2433
02:13:32,440 --> 02:13:33,400
Speaker 3: with my audience.

2434
02:13:33,520 --> 02:13:36,000
Speaker 2: Lauren ah Bob. You know, I'm such a big fan

2435
02:13:36,080 --> 02:13:38,680
Speaker 2: of yours. I read you every week and I like

2436
02:13:38,800 --> 02:13:41,360
Speaker 2: your personal stuff that you do too as much as

2437
02:13:41,400 --> 02:13:44,000
Speaker 2: I like this stuff about the music business. But I

2438
02:13:44,080 --> 02:13:46,280
Speaker 2: can say I've been listening, I've been reading you for

2439
02:13:46,680 --> 02:13:51,400
Speaker 2: thirty years. I would say, amazing. Thank you so much

2440
02:13:51,440 --> 02:13:51,920
Speaker 2: for having me.

2441
02:13:52,200 --> 02:13:53,760
Speaker 3: Well, you know I could go, well, we'll do this

2442
02:13:53,880 --> 02:13:55,560
Speaker 3: on our own time. But you know it's funny if

2443
02:13:55,560 --> 02:13:59,760
Speaker 3: you nail the personal stuff that resonates more than anything. Really,

2444
02:14:00,080 --> 02:14:03,800
Speaker 3: If you want more of Lauren, certainly follow her on

2445
02:14:03,920 --> 02:14:07,600
Speaker 3: social media and of course she has her master class.

2446
02:14:08,120 --> 02:14:10,360
Speaker 3: So in any event, Lauren, thanks.

2447
02:14:10,160 --> 02:14:12,000
Speaker 2: Again, thank you so much Bob.

2448
02:14:12,840 --> 02:14:15,640
Speaker 3: Until next time. This is Bob left stets