Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a frid Egg.
Speaker 3: Friday egg, the dreaded Friday Friday, Frida Egg brid Egg fridagg.
Speaker 4: Bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of
Speaker 4: the hump. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday
Speaker 4: Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson. Today I
Speaker 4: am going to talk about the new PGA Tour changes,
Speaker 4: the proposed PGA Tour changes for the twenty twenty six season.
Speaker 4: Long story short kind of what they entail a less
Speaker 4: exempt to less exemptions across the tour, one hundred exemp
Speaker 4: players down from one to twenty five, smaller fields, and
Speaker 4: a host of other things. So to join me in
Speaker 4: talking about this, I wanted to get some different perspectives,
Speaker 4: so I had Ryan French of Monday Q. He is
Speaker 4: Monday Q, a popular Twitter account, website, podcast is podcast
Speaker 4: is any Given Monday. Ryan is very kind of on
Speaker 4: the side of there should be more pathways, more spots,
Speaker 4: Monday qualifiers, so on, so forth for the PGA Tour.
Speaker 4: On the other side kind of, I guess I would
Speaker 4: describe myself in the middle as Joseph Lamania from Friday
Speaker 4: Golf regularly joins this podcast regularly writes in the Friday
Speaker 4: Golf newsletter. So we had a discussion kind of about
Speaker 4: these proposed changes where we'd like to see it go
Speaker 4: and and just kind of the state of men professional golf.
Speaker 2: So enjoy.
Speaker 4: Before we get to this discussion, let's talk about our sponsor, Stripe.
Speaker 4: Stripe has been a partner of this podcast for a
Speaker 4: long time, in the sense it's a silent partner really.
Speaker 4: They have been our payment you know, handled our payments
Speaker 4: at Friday Golf forever. One of the hardest things about
Speaker 4: being an entrepreneur is figuring out how to make everything work.
Speaker 4: Stripe makes it really easy and makes it really easy
Speaker 4: to do maybe the most important thing for a business
Speaker 4: collect payment.
Speaker 2: So we've used Stripe forever. We've never had an issue.
Speaker 4: They work with companies like us, small on the smaller
Speaker 4: side of things, also massive companies like hurt Alaska Airlines,
Speaker 4: door Dash, you know, people that are processing tons and
Speaker 4: tons of payments. They have a wide suite of solutions.
Speaker 4: They make it really easy for people to pay. They
Speaker 4: accept all different types of and They also can handle
Speaker 4: complex billing solutions such as like recurring usage based billing systems.
Speaker 4: So check out Stripe. If you want to learn more
Speaker 4: about how you can work with Stripe, visit stripe dot com.
Speaker 4: All right, let's get to this discussion with Joseph and
Speaker 4: Ryan French. All Right, we're going to talk about the
Speaker 4: proposed twenty twenty six changes to the PGA Tour, which
Speaker 4: was these are proposed, they are They're going to go
Speaker 4: in front of the policy board in November. Some pretty
Speaker 4: large changes, I would say on the PGA Tour. They
Speaker 4: involve a general reduction in field size kind of across
Speaker 4: the board, full field events, then also kind of your
Speaker 4: fall events where you have less daylight, those will be smaller.
Speaker 4: There are less tour cards going to one hundred exempt
Speaker 4: players from one to twenty five. There's been a slight
Speaker 4: change in some of the priority rankings. I'm not going
Speaker 4: to get into the nitty gritty on every single change
Speaker 4: in priority rankings. And then the final kind of piece,
Speaker 4: the final piece of this news stump was a was
Speaker 4: a change in the slow play policy, which was maybe
Speaker 4: my favorite part about it. A more lax slow play policy.
Speaker 4: So to break down these I am joined by mister
Speaker 4: monday Q himself, Ryan French, as well as our Joseph Lamannia.
Speaker 4: I wanted to put together a group here that might
Speaker 4: have some differing opinions, differing viewpoints, and have a civil
Speaker 4: discussion about these changes the direction that the tour is
Speaker 4: heading in. Welcome on, Ryan, and welcome back Joseph.
Speaker 1: As always, thanks for having me on, Guys, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I'm a big admirer of your work,
Speaker 4: your your your golf forefront investigative journalists these days.
Speaker 1: Ryan. And for those that don't know, my big break
Speaker 1: and that mean this seriously is Andy Hadman this podcast.
Speaker 1: I think it was this one. I don't remember.
Speaker 4: Yeah it was this one. You you left your backpack
Speaker 4: at my old house. Yeah, you never came back to
Speaker 4: get it, and that that backpack went when uh when
Speaker 4: I think my wife sold in a garage sale for
Speaker 4: perfect perfect.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, obviously been super helpful to me and
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Happy to be on.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
Speaker 4: I think we'll get we'll touch on probably more of
Speaker 4: than nitty gritty details. I wanted to kind of make
Speaker 4: this a little bit of a round table discussion. Uh, Ryan,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give you you first first stab of this.
Speaker 4: Since we're all in this together, I wanted to start
Speaker 4: with the positives. What is your favorite change that the
Speaker 4: tour has proposed here?
Speaker 1: Man, I mean, okay, so I will say this as
Speaker 1: a without getting too deep. I'm not totally against the
Speaker 1: field size being reduced. I think they went too drastic,
Speaker 1: but there is a lot of like the past champions,
Speaker 1: you know, category has been widely discussed by a lot
Speaker 1: of people. I'm in agreement with that, like you know,
Speaker 1: when guys who won, When Carlos Franco is getting into
Speaker 1: fields like we've lost the plot. So the change in
Speaker 1: priority ranking is not I'm not totally against what's the
Speaker 1: most positive obviously totally biased. I don't see a lot
Speaker 1: positive in this change.
Speaker 2: Joseph, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 3: My favorite we're going here? Yeah, not overall thoughts, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, I think people have advocated for a simpler
Speaker 3: priority ranking system, and like Ryan is mentioning, I think
Speaker 3: there have been some ways to get into some of
Speaker 3: these fields that needed to go out the door a
Speaker 3: little bit, and that the bottom of the PGA tour
Speaker 3: has not always been the strongest, especially some of these
Speaker 3: spots between one hundred and first and one hundred and
Speaker 3: twenty fifth and the FedEx Cup standings, which is basically
Speaker 3: the group of players that's going to bear the brunt
Speaker 3: of these changes. So now when you look at on
Speaker 3: paper at the priority ranking, you're gonna have spots one
Speaker 3: through one hundred basically filled by the top finishers in
Speaker 3: the FedEx Cup standings. I'm oversimplifying a little bit, but
Speaker 3: then you're gonna have the top ten finishers on the
Speaker 3: DP World Tour in the top twenty from the Corn
Speaker 3: Ferry Tour. That's one hundred and thirty players right there.
Speaker 3: That's basically a full field, and you'd start to expect
Speaker 3: that those golfers are going to get into most of
Speaker 3: these full field events. After that, it's Q School and
Speaker 3: there's other categories that are going to round out the fields.
Speaker 3: But on paper, most of the open events, in the
Speaker 3: full field events are going to be filled out in
Speaker 3: a way that's clean now and the Corn Fairy Tour
Speaker 3: guys are getting a much better priority ranking spot at
Speaker 3: the expense of some of the bottom of the PGA Tour,
Speaker 3: which I think is a step in the right direction,
Speaker 3: so on the whole that to me is the most
Speaker 3: drastic change and by far the best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am.
Speaker 4: I'm a big proponent in the idea of what you
Speaker 4: just kind of laid out, Joseph. Like, I think the
Speaker 4: last recent recent years where you're corn Faery Tour player,
Speaker 4: I get my card in September and I get this,
Speaker 4: it's like the most excite Like you talk about the
Speaker 4: most exciting moment of your life as a professional golfer.
Speaker 4: I reached the top of the mountain, or I thought
Speaker 4: I reached the top of the mountain. I got my
Speaker 4: PGA Tour card. And then it's like, well, you kind
Speaker 4: of have it. You're actually at the back of the
Speaker 4: US and you're probably not gonna play golf until February,
Speaker 4: and you'll play once and then you might play in March,
Speaker 4: and then you might play in late April. And it
Speaker 4: was like this this mishmash of like I don't know
Speaker 4: when I'm starting, it's impossible to get in a rhythm.
Speaker 4: There are still some like huge issues with I think
Speaker 4: the journey of a corn Fairy Tour player to getting
Speaker 4: their PGA Tour card. I think they should immediately be
Speaker 4: playing golf on the PGA Tour. That's like, it's they're
Speaker 4: at a huge competitive disadvantage already that they miss fall,
Speaker 4: that all the other guys on tour get to play
Speaker 4: through the fall for you know, seven million dollars per week,
Speaker 4: and then they come in in January and are like,
Speaker 4: you know, starting behind in a way like they've they've
Speaker 4: missed three months straight of competitive golf. So like, to me,
Speaker 4: like this makes the corn Faery graduate more relevant, right,
Speaker 4: They are more a part of the tour because the
Speaker 4: cleaner priority ranking. Now, like you could argue on the
Speaker 4: other side, there's less spots, but if you I think
Speaker 4: like the percentage wise, those twenty spots have a much
Speaker 4: better chance at retaining PGA Tour status, which I think
Speaker 4: is like one of the hardest things to do in
Speaker 4: the world of golf right now, is graduate from the
Speaker 4: corn Ferry in a you know, position less than tenth
Speaker 4: on their priority ranking and retain your card. It is
Speaker 4: you are you are as as your father probably told
Speaker 4: you walking uphill both ways in that scenario. So that's
Speaker 4: everybody's favorite, Ryan, what is your least favorite?
Speaker 1: You?
Speaker 4: You indicated that you might not love some of these
Speaker 4: changes and if you want to, you could take a
Speaker 4: wide view or a narrow view. You could you know,
Speaker 4: you could say that I don't like the general direction.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, My here's the wide view is you can,
Speaker 1: like back to your point, Andy, like when you get
Speaker 1: your PGA Tour card, you kind of don't really get it.
Speaker 1: And I think it's still going to be some of that,
Speaker 1: even though I agree, you're going to get into a
Speaker 1: lot more events, but you're still with the signature events.
Speaker 1: It's not like you're going to get into any rhythm.
Speaker 1: But agreed, they're going to get a better chance to
Speaker 1: keep and retain their card. Here's my biggest issue overall
Speaker 1: is that it's become more closed door. Right. This brings
Speaker 1: more protection to the top players. It makes it more
Speaker 1: closed doors. Yes, it's less cards, but you're talking less
Speaker 1: exempt cards, less corn ferry cards, special temporary membership as
Speaker 1: far as I know, as far as i've heard, is
Speaker 1: going away, less Monday qualifiers. There's less pass to get
Speaker 1: onto the PGA Tour than there was before. And that's
Speaker 1: my biggest issue is this was already closed door, and
Speaker 1: now it's becoming even more. You know, the top players
Speaker 1: have built in a lot of protection. They have all
Speaker 1: the power. Understandably, they're protecting themselves. They've seen all of
Speaker 1: their other playing their former playing partners get hundreds of
Speaker 1: million dollars. They have the power, they've taken it. It's
Speaker 1: it's a closed door tour that's becoming more closed door
Speaker 1: in my opinion.
Speaker 4: Joseph, what's your least favorite part of that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I guess the only not that it needs
Speaker 3: to be a back like a rebuttal to everything. And
Speaker 3: I'm sure I agree with with Ryan on some of that.
Speaker 3: The part of the of the changes that probably went
Speaker 3: under reported a little bit or didn't get as big
Speaker 3: of a reaction is the way they're changing the FedEx
Speaker 3: cut point distribution to actually make it a little bit
Speaker 3: more so that your performance aligns better with the points
Speaker 3: you're given. So what it's actually going to do in
Speaker 3: practice is make some of those non signature events a
Speaker 3: little bit closer if you finish somewhere between like tenth
Speaker 3: and twentieth to the signature events. So I actually would
Speaker 3: push back a little bit that the top players have
Speaker 3: built in this huge layer of protections for themselves, and
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways, I think the PGA Tour
Speaker 3: now there are fewer of those protections than that were
Speaker 3: in the past, so I would counter that a little bit.
Speaker 3: My least favorite part of all of this is a
Speaker 3: line that I found am using in the whole email
Speaker 3: that went out two players. They're not expanding the field
Speaker 3: size for signature events, and I have a problem with
Speaker 3: I think in general, the signature events have lacked some
Speaker 3: buzz and none of this, None of these changes matter
Speaker 3: if people aren't interested in the signature events, because that
Speaker 3: is what the tour is anchoring itself to. If the
Speaker 3: signature events are special, everything else feeds up to that
Speaker 3: things are going well. If no one cares about the
Speaker 3: signature events, the tours in a has a serious problem
Speaker 3: on their hands, and the whole thing could fall apart.
Speaker 3: So in the email, the tour said that they explored
Speaker 3: the possibility of expanding the field sizes slightly from anywhere.
Speaker 3: Right now they're generally around seventy five seventy six players.
Speaker 3: They explored the possibility of extending that to eighty to
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty players, and they're rationale for not
Speaker 3: doing that is that the subcommittees, this is a quote,
Speaker 3: gained an understanding of how all aspects of the schedule
Speaker 3: model are integrated to support the overall schedule and recognized
Speaker 3: any modifications at this stage would be disruptive and could
Speaker 3: increase fan confusion. That does not hold that fans ald
Speaker 3: are going to be confused about what a ninety five
Speaker 3: or one hundred player tournament means like now.
Speaker 2: They don't not even think.
Speaker 3: The fans don't understand the objective now of what's the
Speaker 3: point of the tournament? Like that doesn't make sense, And
Speaker 3: all the other changes are at least as disruptive as
Speaker 3: potentially expanding the field side. So I think that the
Speaker 3: PGA Tour seriously needs to consider expanding those fields to
Speaker 3: like ninety to one hundred players, restoring the meaning of
Speaker 3: making a cut on the PGA Tour, and leaning a
Speaker 3: little bit more into it being competitive. So that was
Speaker 3: my least favorite part of all this announcement, that they
Speaker 3: might not even be addressing their most valuable and like
Speaker 3: the key to the success of the tour is the
Speaker 3: signature events being special, and they might be shooting themselves
Speaker 3: in the foot by not addressing that.
Speaker 1: So Joseph to that point, I asked this to Billy, Right,
Speaker 1: is like the signature events last year and the signature
Speaker 1: events in twenty twenty six are exactly the same, like
Speaker 1: the sponsor. That's what I don't understand about all these changes.
Speaker 1: It's not changing the non signature events. It's not like
Speaker 1: magically ten top guys are going to all of a
Speaker 1: sudden go like, oh, we have to support the three
Speaker 1: M or the John Deere. Right, the signature events aren't
Speaker 1: changing like the signature events last year. In twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: all the top guys are gonna play. They're basically forced
Speaker 1: to play that there's enough money to play. So what
Speaker 1: has these changes done to make the product better? You know,
Speaker 1: like two sponsors and two fans and to me again
Speaker 1: totally biased, I'm not sure what they are. The signature
Speaker 1: events are basically going to be the same and the
Speaker 1: other events are basically going to be the same. I
Speaker 1: don't know what difference is.
Speaker 4: I think ay, like on one clear thing that's going
Speaker 4: to make the tournament from a competition standpoint better is
Speaker 4: the smaller feel by going to one hundred and twenty
Speaker 4: players in the fall these fall and early year events.
Speaker 4: Like when you think about the competition aspect of an event,
Speaker 4: whoever is at the back of the bus is completely screwed.
Speaker 2: It's like you're gonna play twelve holes.
Speaker 4: And it's gonna be pitch by the time you finish,
Speaker 4: it's gonna be dark, and then you have to come
Speaker 4: back tomorrow morning it's six and finish like you're at
Speaker 4: a competitive disadvantage if you have to, if you're at
Speaker 4: the back of the bus. So that alone, now, like
Speaker 4: the means of which you fix that competitive issue are
Speaker 4: There are probably a few ways you could maybe enforce
Speaker 4: some pace of play standards.
Speaker 2: They have gone the other way.
Speaker 4: For anybody wondering, my least favorite thing here is the
Speaker 4: pace of play policy getting relaxed, less fines, more time.
Speaker 2: I think it's insane.
Speaker 4: I think like every sport in the world is trying
Speaker 4: to to push for faster play for they know that
Speaker 4: the tension spans of fans is going down, and the
Speaker 4: PGA Tour somehow thinks it's a good idea to relax
Speaker 4: space and play policies. But anyways, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Go ahead.
Speaker 1: I mean, like you look at Major League Baseball, the
Speaker 1: shot clock has very literally changed the entire game, like
Speaker 1: it's made it wildly more popular. It's by all accounts,
Speaker 1: there's literally no one who's like, man, this is a
Speaker 1: bad change, and the PGA Tour what the complete opposite.
Speaker 1: They're like, man, there's a like major League Baseball and
Speaker 1: golf have very much like it's relatively boring sport, right
Speaker 1: like Major League Baseball is slow. There's not a lot
Speaker 1: of ton going on, and so they're like, man, we
Speaker 1: got to make this faster. Let's do a shot clock
Speaker 1: pitch clock, and it's revolutionized the game. And the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour rolls out all these changes and they go the
Speaker 1: exact opposite way.
Speaker 4: PJ and I were talking, and PJ brought up a
Speaker 4: point that nobody's talking about is the health issues that
Speaker 4: are the pitchers are going through because of the pitch clock.
Speaker 4: But that's because like all the other advantages are outweighing
Speaker 4: the one disadvantage. And I think, like, when you bring
Speaker 4: up this this thing, and like, obviously people getting hurt
Speaker 4: is an issue, PJ says that there are rumors that
Speaker 4: golfers are saying they might get hurt, there might be
Speaker 4: more entries if there's a shot clock, which I can't
Speaker 4: contained myself, like that being a pushback, we're gonna get
Speaker 4: injured if we have to play a shop.
Speaker 2: Within forty five seconds.
Speaker 4: But anyways, I'm sorry, I can't say that good faith.
Speaker 4: The other thing that goes into like the pushback players
Speaker 4: are like, well, the logistics are impossible. The logistics are impossible.
Speaker 4: Like that's the one pushback that is constantly held and
Speaker 4: it's like, guys, has already happened.
Speaker 5: They did this on the European Tour and it was
Speaker 5: a smashing success. They had a shot clock they figured
Speaker 5: out on this tour that doesn't have the funds that
Speaker 5: the PGA Tour has, they figured out how to do
Speaker 5: shot clock like and what they saw is players actually
Speaker 5: played better, They played faster, rounds took less time. Like
Speaker 5: it is a you know, I think like from that standpoint,
Speaker 5: for me, that's the issue. But from a competition standpoint,
Speaker 5: I think people finishing rounds on the day that rounds
Speaker 5: are set to tee off is like a very important
Speaker 5: part of the competition. I don't want to dismiss that,
Speaker 5: get it pulling this back, but you know, like from
Speaker 5: the from the other standpoint, like I think that that
Speaker 5: is like one of the things that you look at
Speaker 5: with this and you just say, like to Joseph's point.
Speaker 2: Like what what what are we even changing here?
Speaker 4: Like is there you know, we we've been in this
Speaker 4: kind of purgatory as a golf fan, and whether you're
Speaker 4: on the on the fence of like there needs to
Speaker 4: be more playing opportunities, more pathways, or you're on the
Speaker 4: fence of there needs to be less pathways. I think
Speaker 4: like everybody in golf use the declining ratings, the you know,
Speaker 4: diminished product, and it says like something has to change,
Speaker 4: and you look at this and it's like this is it.
Speaker 4: This is what rolling out like unless like I'm missing
Speaker 4: something and like the twenty twenty seven is going to
Speaker 4: introduce these sweeping changes, which I don't think is going
Speaker 4: to be like like what we've seen is usually there
Speaker 4: are changes and then it's like we aren't going to
Speaker 4: do anything for five years and that maybe we'll change
Speaker 4: something else. So it's like this is from this is
Speaker 4: what golf's going to look like for the next five years, and.
Speaker 1: And and what has what is going to be different
Speaker 1: about the product outside of a smaller field to the
Speaker 1: casual golf fan which makes up of like we're in
Speaker 1: this little bubble, like what is going to change about
Speaker 1: the product? Like absolutely nothing that's the answer.
Speaker 3: That's where I'm with you, Ryan, is that I think
Speaker 3: this reflects delusion of a lot of these players that
Speaker 3: spent a ton of time in conference rooms coming up
Speaker 3: with reinventing the tour, and this is what they landed on.
Speaker 3: Like to me, that's my issue with the changes is
Speaker 3: this doesn't change virtually anything. And I guess where you
Speaker 3: and I would probably disagree is like I think the
Speaker 3: elimination of the Monday qualifiers and the slight reduction in
Speaker 3: these field sizes to get these rounds in by daylight,
Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to have much of an
Speaker 3: impact on any players or on the product pretty much
Speaker 3: at all. And I also think the pathways are still
Speaker 3: pretty clear for how a player gets to the PGA Tour.
Speaker 3: So to me, like these changes are mostly negligible for
Speaker 3: ninety nine percent of fans, and if again, like I
Speaker 3: already said, if the signature events aren't popping for people,
Speaker 3: these are sweeping changes that don't change much of anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how you take this change, but
Speaker 1: again I agree with you Joseph in the most part
Speaker 1: that Monday qualifiers are not trying to pretend like they're
Speaker 1: a huge part of the PJA Tour as much as
Speaker 1: I love them and say that often on Twitter, like
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to pretend like they are a significant part. Obviously,
Speaker 1: it's very biased. I think they've been a part of
Speaker 1: the history of the PGA Tour. Andy said it on
Speaker 1: the Shotgun Start, I would love if they want seventy
Speaker 1: player fields and the rest is filled by Monday qualifiers, right,
Speaker 1: like that was it would be obviously biased. But my
Speaker 1: I don't know how you sell this to AT and
Speaker 1: T when you go and you're like, what are they
Speaker 1: getting that's any different? Like, hey, here's all our changes. Okay,
Speaker 1: what is it different to the AT and T Double
Speaker 1: Beach Pro Am? Nothing? Literally nothing.
Speaker 4: I think the signature events is something to zoom in
Speaker 4: on a little bit obviously. I think Joseph makes a
Speaker 4: great point about them being like if this isn't compelling,
Speaker 4: what are we doing?
Speaker 2: Type situation, And.
Speaker 4: I think like the less player I think we've seen
Speaker 4: this with with golf in general, is like kind of
Speaker 4: like the less players overarching, Like obviously there's outliers. People
Speaker 4: are gonna be like, well, the Masters is.
Speaker 2: A small field, Like Okay, I got you, I got you.
Speaker 4: Bud, But just in general, when we reduce the number
Speaker 4: of players, it generally gets less interesting across the board
Speaker 4: because there's less storylines, there's less competition a And like
Speaker 4: what we've seen generally with this era of golf is
Speaker 4: there's more parody than ever in golfers. The difference between
Speaker 4: number one hundred and number fifteen has never been smaller
Speaker 4: in the world of pro golf. And I think that's
Speaker 4: like probably one of like the lynch pins and issues
Speaker 4: with what's going on in the PGA Tour in general,
Speaker 4: is it's harder to be a great player than ever.
Speaker 4: And when you continue to reduce the size this scale
Speaker 4: of those signature events, you are going to continue to
Speaker 4: reduce the potential outcomes, right, And I just am a
Speaker 4: general believer in more outcomes overarching better.
Speaker 2: Would you guys agree disagree with that?
Speaker 1: Ryan? Go ahead? Yeah, I mean I would agree right,
Speaker 1: Like and Andy, That's my point of more cards is
Speaker 1: like there is the parody is greater now on the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour than ever. Again, back to Billy saying, like
Speaker 1: this is a more competitive tour. The difference between one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty fifth player and the hundred player is
Speaker 1: one tenth of a stroke, right, or whatever that number
Speaker 1: is is minuscule, and so that a more competitive tour
Speaker 1: doesn't translate to anything for the fans or the product
Speaker 1: or whatever. So I always think more is better. Obviously
Speaker 1: again that's biased, but you know, no cut events have
Speaker 1: not worked in wgc's They just aren't compelling. Whether that's
Speaker 1: because of the smaller fields or no cuts or whatever,
Speaker 1: they aren't can but they still continue to try to
Speaker 1: shove it down our throat, and in very typical PGA
Speaker 1: to or fashion with decisions lately, it's let's have no
Speaker 1: cut events because people want to see stars all four days,
Speaker 1: and then they added a ten person cut or whatever
Speaker 1: that is, right, Like, they just don't make a lot
Speaker 1: of sense, and so no one. I don't think many people.
Speaker 1: Maybe some fans on the ground want to see Rory
Speaker 1: shoot twenty over if he's struggling and they want to
Speaker 1: go to the genesis.
Speaker 2: But that's what I.
Speaker 4: Don't understand, actually, is like who wants Yeah, is are
Speaker 4: there people that like wake up early to catch like
Speaker 4: if Rory's in last, they wake up to catch his
Speaker 4: eight ampty time?
Speaker 1: Right, I don't think that's a guy with a Sunday ticket,
Speaker 1: Like he's got a Sunday ticket and Rory goes eighty one,
Speaker 1: seventy nine to seventy eight, and he's like, man, we
Speaker 1: got to leave at five am, kids, we gotta see
Speaker 1: Rory sweep and do he obviously is gonna shoot seventy eight.
Speaker 1: We gotta get out there, Like, what the hell? Who
Speaker 1: does that? No one.
Speaker 3: The part I strongly disagree with is the idea that
Speaker 3: these margins are minuscule. And that's something that we've talked
Speaker 3: about a little bit on this pod in the past.
Speaker 3: And not to use an example that might be sensitive, Ryan,
Speaker 3: but like TJ. Vogel, Monday qualified eight times in twenty
Speaker 3: eighteen and made three cuts in those eight starts, once
Speaker 3: was inside the top fifty. And then when he went
Speaker 3: to the corn Fairy Tour the next couple of years,
Speaker 3: struggled on the corn Faery Tour. Like Mark Hubbard forgot
Speaker 3: to register for a tournament this fall on the PGA
Speaker 3: Tour swing, showed up to the qualifier and got out.
Speaker 3: He immediately got These fields are vastly different in strength
Speaker 3: of field. If a PGA Tour player shows up to
Speaker 3: a Corn Fairy Tour event to qualifier chances are they
Speaker 3: are getting out. If you don't belong on the PGA Tour,
Speaker 3: you're probably not going to have success. All due respect
Speaker 3: to TJ Vogel, like when he got out to a
Speaker 3: stronger field, he wasn't able to compete. I fully believe
Speaker 3: with what the PGA Tour has done with their pipelines,
Speaker 3: if you are good enough, the opportunity is in front
Speaker 3: of you, and removing those Monday qualifiers is not preventing
Speaker 3: players from getting to the top level. Where I think
Speaker 3: we clearly agree is that expanding the field of the
Speaker 3: signature events and restoring the meaning of a cut would
Speaker 3: make things more competitive and compelling. So that would be
Speaker 3: my rebuttal to you, Ryan. I agree with you on
Speaker 3: some of that, but I think this talk of like
Speaker 3: it's a tenth of a shot it's a fifteen hundredths
Speaker 3: of a shot doesn't always play out, and I would
Speaker 3: challenge people to come up with examples where somebody's getting trapped.
Speaker 4: Right now, all right, let's take a quick break from
Speaker 4: this discussion and talk about our partner, True Golf. True
Speaker 4: Golf has launched a new product called launch Box. It
Speaker 4: is an all new portable launch monitor and golf simulator.
Speaker 4: It seamlessly connects to your PC or iOS device and
Speaker 4: makes it easy to play golf courses and improve your
Speaker 4: game year round as a simple setup, instant shot registration,
Speaker 4: accurate measured data, and an easy Wi Fi connection.
Speaker 2: Neat thing about this.
Speaker 4: It can be used indoors and outdoors on range mats
Speaker 4: and you can get just detailed feedback on your game.
Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to using this over the Winner. I've
Speaker 4: been playing a decent amount of golf this year and
Speaker 4: kind of want to stay sharp over the Winner. So
Speaker 4: if you're interested in true golf, this is a way
Speaker 4: you can play really great golf courses. They have a
Speaker 4: ton of great golf courses. We can't mention their specific names.
Speaker 4: If you're interested in true golf away to you know,
Speaker 4: have a launch monitor and also play golf. Check out
Speaker 4: True golf dot com slash egg. That's the launch box
Speaker 4: by True Golf, True Golf t r U golf dot
Speaker 4: com slash egg. All right, let's get back to Joseph
Speaker 4: Lamannia and Ryan French. I've been looking a little bit
Speaker 4: at uh at some data and just like what I've
Speaker 4: found interesting is like how you know you have these
Speaker 4: players and because of signature events, now their strokes gained
Speaker 4: has like they aren't they aren't improved, They're almost they're
Speaker 4: they're getting worse because on a strokes gain perspective, because
Speaker 4: they're playing against better competition, right, your strokes gain And
Speaker 4: I think this, yeah, unadjusted. So if you are like
Speaker 4: you're you know, like scoring average, like the scoring average
Speaker 4: of the three is a lot different than the scoring
Speaker 4: average of playing at Riviera in February in bad weather, right, Like,
Speaker 4: there's all these different elements to it, and I do agree,
Speaker 4: just in totality is like the way that the tour
Speaker 4: has set up with like the Corn Fairy Tour and
Speaker 4: the PGA Tour just in general, the you know, we
Speaker 4: can quibble about like small things, but players that are
Speaker 4: supposed to succeed succeed. Years ago, I had a conversation
Speaker 4: with a tour player who like, you know, a level
Speaker 4: of player who had played on the Corn Fairy Tour
Speaker 4: but also who had played at Eastlake, right, and he's like, listen,
Speaker 4: there's there's nobody that gets held down by the Corn
Speaker 4: Fairy Tour that's not supposed to be there. And he's
Speaker 4: like the thing that I would always pay attention to
Speaker 4: if I were you, is watch the certified PGA Tour
Speaker 4: players when they get relegated to the corn Ferry Tour.
Speaker 4: How they immediately are right back up. And I think, like,
Speaker 4: you know, like listen, like I'm friends with him. But
Speaker 4: like when Zach Blair a couple of years ago lost
Speaker 4: his tour card, I was terrified because Zach, he'd be
Speaker 4: the first to tell you he's he's one of the
Speaker 4: he's a bomber, you know. But if you go to
Speaker 4: the bottom bottom of the driving distance, I'm like, man,
Speaker 4: like these scores are gonna be they're so low on
Speaker 4: the corn Ferry Tour, he doesn't hit it that far,
Speaker 4: like he may not get his card back. And sure
Speaker 4: enough he went down and immediately came back up, and
Speaker 4: he's been back up since. Like and now with like this,
Speaker 4: I think, like what's interesting to be about this new four,
Speaker 4: this new I think like less cards, Like if we
Speaker 4: want to talk about like where the tour is going
Speaker 4: and where I'd like to see them go. We've talked
Speaker 4: about the signature event. I think it's just time for
Speaker 4: them to acknowledge that there is a upper tier, like
Speaker 4: that there's a different to and that what we're talking about,
Speaker 4: Like mainly this conversation is about the tour, the corn
Speaker 4: Ferry Tour and the PGA the bottom part of the
Speaker 4: PGA Tour, And to me, like what needs to be acknowledged,
Speaker 4: like the if they could increase the field sizes of
Speaker 4: the signature events while keeping the same small number of
Speaker 4: exempt players into those, then you've created an interesting pathway
Speaker 4: up and down right, and you could create this free
Speaker 4: flowing system that allows a lot of pathways where somebody
Speaker 4: that plays on that, Like I think like the number
Speaker 4: one issue with the tour right now is that that
Speaker 4: all the all the tours that they operate, so from
Speaker 4: the PGA Tour to the corn Ferry Tour to the
Speaker 4: America's Tour, they all operate on different currencies like this currency, yeah,
Speaker 4: points currencies, Like there's no there's no relation to the
Speaker 4: points I earn on the corn Ferry Tour or the
Speaker 4: America's Tour. I'd love to see, like who is it
Speaker 4: Dan McCarthy a couple of years ago, Ryan like years
Speaker 4: ago that got like he won like five times on
Speaker 4: the on Canada or Latin America and he came up
Speaker 4: he played one event on the PGA on corn Ferry
Speaker 4: Tour and he hurt his thumb. Like in by perfect
Speaker 4: world he was he was beating the barn doors off
Speaker 4: everybody on the America's Tour. Get over to the corn
Speaker 4: Ferry Tour or the PGA Tour corn Ferry Tour. If
Speaker 4: he keeps playing hot, let him get up to the
Speaker 4: top echelon of the game within the same year.
Speaker 2: We all like understand golf.
Speaker 4: Golf is a game of like you see this as
Speaker 4: like runs, It's very hard to sustain the same level
Speaker 4: of play over a long period of time. The only
Speaker 4: people that do that are the greatest players in the game.
Speaker 4: So allow a little bit of a free flow, and
Speaker 4: I think what happens is then you start to see
Speaker 4: just more relegation and promotion throughout a period of time
Speaker 4: and more interest because to me, outside of the superstars,
Speaker 4: the most fascinating aspect of the sport is the promotion
Speaker 4: and relegation.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, just one back to Joseph's point. You can
Speaker 1: talk about my wife, my kids, but TJ vocal is
Speaker 1: completely off limit. I would have not agreed to come
Speaker 1: on this podcast if I had known that was going
Speaker 1: to be going to.
Speaker 2: Cut what is he from Indiana? Isn't he from Indiana?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, why would you do that?
Speaker 4: Well, well, Joseph's from Indiana, that's Indiana on Indiana crime.
Speaker 1: I mean again, talk about my wife, kids, that's fine,
Speaker 1: but TJ Vogel, that is insane, that's slanderous. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: let me let me handle the Monday qualifier. I agree
Speaker 1: with you, Joseph. I again, I think it gets lost
Speaker 1: and I probably don't do a great job of it.
Speaker 1: I'm not pretending that like a Monday que field is
Speaker 1: like oh, they're all going to be PG winners or
Speaker 1: even there's tons of guys who are just very good
Speaker 1: players and could be a decent corn fairy player. But
Speaker 1: I think there's plenty of examples. Peter Quest just did it,
Speaker 1: you know, JT posts guys changed their careers of Monday.
Speaker 1: There's definitely guys who have Monday qualified or in Monday
Speaker 1: qualifiers that could be a good part of the tour.
Speaker 1: But I'm not trying to pretend like Monday qualifiers have
Speaker 1: fields where everyone's going to be a PGA Tour winner.
Speaker 1: I probably don't do a great job of saying that
Speaker 1: on Twitter. But Andy, to your point about points, being Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like Matt McCarty is a great example, right, Like, how
Speaker 1: do we get Matt McCarty up to the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: faster than the three wins he did, because obviously he
Speaker 1: proved it, he was one of the in that period
Speaker 1: of time, he was one of the best players in
Speaker 1: the world, obviously not playing against great competition, So how
Speaker 1: do we make that regulation that The point of vault
Speaker 1: to me all those changes is like, we don't have that.
Speaker 1: We don't have a lot of pathways in my opinion,
Speaker 1: to get to the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of pathos.
Speaker 3: In a rare moment, I'm going to defend the PGA
Speaker 3: Tour a little bit on that. What they're saying is
Speaker 3: the path is through the corn Faery Tour, and you
Speaker 3: have a full season to finish in the top twenty
Speaker 3: and if you do that, now we're pretty much guaranteeing
Speaker 3: you spots into all of the non signature events. Could
Speaker 3: they get Matt McCarty, I agree with you, Andy, they
Speaker 3: should get him into the Fall faster. But like the
Speaker 3: other example, Dan McCarty or McCarthy, McCarthy, maybe get him
Speaker 3: up into the corn Faery Tour faster and let him
Speaker 3: work his way into the top twenty and if he's
Speaker 3: good enough, he will. If somebody's winning on a lower
Speaker 3: tour than the Corn Faery Tour, like realistically they are
Speaker 3: not even if they're winning, are not going to have
Speaker 3: a lot of success on the PGA Tour until we've
Speaker 3: seen that they can play well on the Corn Fairy Tour.
Speaker 3: I don't think players like that are getting stuck. So
Speaker 3: it seems fairly reasonable to me to say, hey, we're
Speaker 3: giving you, Yes, it's gonna take you a full season
Speaker 3: on the Corn Fairy Tour, finish in the top twenty,
Speaker 3: and then you're gonna get your starts now on the
Speaker 3: PGA Tour and not be stuck behind cards one hundred
Speaker 3: through one hundred and twenty five is a fairly reasonable
Speaker 3: pipeline system.
Speaker 4: I think like the probably the biggest pushback to like
Speaker 4: a real free flowing almost market of golfers going up
Speaker 4: and down is the idea, like it's revolves around people
Speaker 4: need to know where they're playing, like that's generally what
Speaker 4: they what I think the pushback will say it would be,
Speaker 4: and I would say that's that's a strictly player's perspective.
Speaker 4: You know from a stemblance of any other sport, like
Speaker 4: you play where you were, where you are performing, You
Speaker 4: get moved up moved down in all these sports. And
Speaker 4: if you're a star, you know where you're going to
Speaker 4: be for the most part, and that should be the
Speaker 4: only people that really know where they're going to be
Speaker 4: are the people that can are the players that could
Speaker 4: go out and perform at a top twenty level year
Speaker 4: in year out.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, I.
Speaker 4: Think like I think like you've seen this like basically
Speaker 4: year in year out with the PGA Tour and the
Speaker 4: corn Ferry Tour is effectively one player from the corn
Speaker 4: Ferry Tour at minimum comes up and is an immediate
Speaker 4: like star in the making on the PGA Tour. You
Speaker 4: think Scotti, Scheffler, Sung JM, who's been one of the
Speaker 4: most consistent, like good players on the PGA Tour. Within
Speaker 4: weeks of them being on the corn Ferry Tour, it
Speaker 4: was very evident that they were they were going up
Speaker 4: to the PGA Tour, And I think like one of
Speaker 4: the issues with the way the structuring it, the way
Speaker 4: they have it structured, where you have to be down
Speaker 4: there for a year like out other winning three times,
Speaker 4: which is you could finish second every single week.
Speaker 2: On the Cord Ferry Tour.
Speaker 4: You could be literally finished second every week, and it
Speaker 4: does you know good? You could win twice and finish
Speaker 4: second every I mean the greatest Cord Fairy Tour season ever,
Speaker 4: and you don't get moved up. Like there needs to
Speaker 4: be point thresholds, like we're sirt through a certain time,
Speaker 4: We're gonna move this person up because like what you're
Speaker 4: missing out on, especially in an era where where players
Speaker 4: are younger, that are the primes are shorter.
Speaker 2: We're seeing this like like there are there are.
Speaker 4: Real questions at age thirty one thirty two, what does
Speaker 4: JT and Jordan Speece's next five years look like?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: Like what are they that was when they were twenty one?
Speaker 4: We never fathomed that be or twenty two that being
Speaker 4: like the reality. But like with this in mind, like
Speaker 4: how do we get people like Skyte Scheffler up a
Speaker 4: half a year early and start to build the name
Speaker 4: recognition of these young players and it has to become
Speaker 4: a free system that allows people to go up and
Speaker 4: down without like you know, I think I in recent years,
Speaker 4: I always find a humorous it's like the people are
Speaker 4: low on the PGA Tour priority lists that are our
Speaker 4: recent corn Faery grats. It's like they're in this purgatory.
Speaker 4: It's like, I'm not in this PGA Tour field. Do
Speaker 4: I go play the corn Ferry event. It doesn't count
Speaker 4: towards me keeping my PGA Tour card, But I'm not
Speaker 4: playing the cord Fairy Tour enough to keep to be
Speaker 4: to like be advantaged on the on the corn Faery card.
Speaker 4: And then if you lose, if you if you finish
Speaker 4: poorly enough on the PGA Tour card money list, you
Speaker 4: go back to like first stage of corn Ferry Tour,
Speaker 4: like like it doesn't make any sense that the the
Speaker 4: the points don't match up, like to me, like this
Speaker 4: is like actually the biggest problem with the PGA Tour
Speaker 4: is that the currency. You have one state running everything
Speaker 4: but using different money everywhere you turn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean agree totally with with that. Andy. I mean,
Speaker 1: Blaine Hale obviously was a Q School graduate, so even
Speaker 1: behind the corn Ferry guys, so even getting into less events,
Speaker 1: really concentrated on the PGA Tour as much as he could.
Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden was like, oh hell, I
Speaker 1: got to go start playing corn Ferry events and is
Speaker 1: going to finish below outside of you know, the still
Speaker 1: barring the three events that are left, it's gonna finish
Speaker 1: below two hundredth and FedEx didn't do anything, didn't do
Speaker 1: well enough, made a few cuts on the corn Ferry Tour,
Speaker 1: so didn't keep his card in any way. There, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's going back to second stage and very literally is
Speaker 1: going to go from the PGA Tour to nothing like zero,
Speaker 1: not a single start on the corn Ferry, not America's status, nothing,
Speaker 1: And so I just there and those guys coming up, like,
Speaker 1: you play great on the Americas, you should have to
Speaker 1: like you should be able to go faster through the
Speaker 1: system one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: To be fair, And I'm more just playing Devil's advocate here.
Speaker 3: Blaine got like twenty four starts on the PGA Tour
Speaker 3: and it's almost all miscuts this year.
Speaker 1: Oh I said, I.
Speaker 3: Can agree that that there should probably there should be
Speaker 3: some point synchronization so that they're not starting back from
Speaker 3: square one and they have some level of Corn Fairy
Speaker 3: Tour status like that seems to be very reasonable, And
Speaker 3: maybe there's another exemption category to Andy where if you're
Speaker 3: top five in the corn Fairy Tour points at a
Speaker 3: certain point in the year, you get into some PGA
Speaker 3: Tour events like that seems like a priority worth pursuing.
Speaker 3: I would just only push back on the notion that
Speaker 3: players are getting trapped in certain places within the golf
Speaker 3: ecosystem right now, because I really don't think that's happening.
Speaker 2: I see.
Speaker 4: Like my point is like, if the points are all
Speaker 4: the same, you could be like you could be Blaine
Speaker 4: Hail and it's you know, it's it's March and I
Speaker 4: haven't gotten anything going on the PGA Tour and I
Speaker 4: don't have any started. The players is this week. I'm
Speaker 4: not going to get into Honda or whatever is around it.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, okay, Like i can go play the
Speaker 4: PGA Tour or the corn Ferry Tour and at least
Speaker 4: up my my standing on the PGA Tour because I'm
Speaker 4: going down and I'm playing something and I'm trying to
Speaker 4: play well, right, But I think, like that's that's the issue.
Speaker 4: Is like to me, like everything you do within the
Speaker 4: PGA Tour ecosystem shall relate to something, and it makes
Speaker 4: it easier.
Speaker 2: For the fan.
Speaker 4: It makes it way more interesting all of a sudden. Also,
Speaker 4: with this, like you could have multiple relegation and promotion
Speaker 4: moments throughout the year. It doesn't have to be like,
Speaker 4: you know what, it's August, we relegate for vote in
Speaker 4: August and September. Those are the that's the time we
Speaker 4: do relegation and promotion. There could be points like where
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, you're you're outside here, these guys are
Speaker 4: up all of a sudden. It's like I have like
Speaker 4: I think like there's been this like belief that we
Speaker 4: can get the PGA of the like the golf schedule,
Speaker 4: Like there's this like fleet this belief that we could
Speaker 4: get to a eight month calendar for the stars where
Speaker 4: they get their they're off Seaton. I think that's like
Speaker 4: just like not possible. I don't think we could get
Speaker 4: a golf schedule that everybody's happy with in under ten months.
Speaker 4: I think that's the reality is like we're going to
Speaker 4: be running golf from January till October. That is just
Speaker 4: like through October. That's the reality of it. So like
Speaker 4: why why not have multiple relegations that make that keep
Speaker 4: that interest in the sport going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and I think it helps with getting the
Speaker 1: best players up there faster, Right Like if Matt McCarty
Speaker 1: before his third win, gets up there because of some
Speaker 1: quarterly regulation or promotion, he gets up there faster and
Speaker 1: proves that he can be a star again. Totally agree, Andy,
Speaker 1: It's like, how do we create turnover? That's again back
Speaker 1: to the main issue that I have with the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour in general and these changes. It's like, we're not
Speaker 1: promoting that we're we're not We're not looking for ways
Speaker 1: to get the best players up the fastest. That's not
Speaker 1: the goal of the PGA Tour, or it seems like
Speaker 1: it to me. So why can't we do things like
Speaker 1: you know, quarterly promotions and then those ten that are
Speaker 1: regulated know where they are playing, right Like they go
Speaker 1: down to the corn Ferry and you're like, I have
Speaker 1: for the next quarter. I got to kill it on
Speaker 1: the corn Ferry tour so I can get back up
Speaker 1: again instead of the purgatory that you talk about, like
Speaker 1: oh I should go here or there, Like you know
Speaker 1: where you're playing, you know what the goal is.
Speaker 4: I think then you could get rid of Monday qualifiers too.
Speaker 1: Son of a bitch. I didn't know what I was
Speaker 1: walking into but never coming on this podcast again, between
Speaker 1: the TJ Vogel and this, I just walked into a tread.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I just think, like, I think one
Speaker 4: of the challenges that golf has is the lack of
Speaker 4: the lack of the other side of the table element
Speaker 4: that every other sport has. Team sports in general have
Speaker 4: have the owner and the owner the ownership. And I'm
Speaker 4: not saying that owners are are great. I'm I'm a
Speaker 4: Chicago sports fan. The vast majority of the owners of
Speaker 4: my sports teams are pretty much horrible. They are the worst,
Speaker 4: some of the worst owners in all of sports. But like,
Speaker 4: just in general, the owners represent like kind of the
Speaker 4: idea of like, we need to make this, this product
Speaker 4: good because I am trying to make money on the product.
Speaker 4: The players make money by playing this. And I think
Speaker 4: like one of the struggles that golf faces, and it's
Speaker 4: very evident with this, is that the lack of the
Speaker 4: other side of the table, saying like, let's really think
Speaker 4: about how we make the most interesting television product, and like,
Speaker 4: you know, if you take the majors out of out
Speaker 4: of golf, you know, what are the most fascinating events
Speaker 4: over the course of the year.
Speaker 2: What would you guys say, Joseph, you first.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I went through this in my head recently,
Speaker 3: and there's like ten events that seem to matter in
Speaker 3: golf right now, like the players Matters, the Ryder Cup, obviously,
Speaker 3: the Majors. We're just talking about the men's side of
Speaker 3: the Olympics when it rolls around. And then honestly, I
Speaker 3: think even events like Riviera Memorial have been diminished a
Speaker 3: little bit by the reduced fields, Like there aren't that
Speaker 3: many golf tournaments that people really seem to care about,
Speaker 3: so somewhere around ten.
Speaker 1: Obviously, Yeah, I agree. You know, I use I use
Speaker 1: this guy who used to read run the Edward Lower
Speaker 1: tracker like and he was very committed to an account
Speaker 1: that was like total ridiculous, right, But the point is is,
Speaker 1: like that's a golf nerd, right, Like that is you
Speaker 1: have to be an ultimate golf nerd to be really dedicated.
Speaker 1: He wasn't like some like this was before the trackers
Speaker 1: were a thing, and he would like hook up with
Speaker 1: his mom and like get pictures and let not hook
Speaker 1: up with this month I did's it like get connected
Speaker 1: with his mom and get pictures from the tournaments and
Speaker 1: his wife and like he was like working at it, right,
Speaker 1: And that guy only watches four tournaments a year now
Speaker 1: in the majors, right, And if we're losing that guy
Speaker 1: who ran an Edward Lord tracker account dedicated, we have
Speaker 1: lost the plot. And like, you know, he's not watching
Speaker 1: signature events, We're doing something wrong in golf because that
Speaker 1: is the guy who if he's not watching, we're in deep,
Speaker 1: deep trouble.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think like where I was going with
Speaker 4: this is like what matters is when there's stakes, right.
Speaker 4: I mean you talk about like Joseph, you to talk
Speaker 4: about Barboreal and Riviera being reduced, They're just another signature event.
Speaker 4: I've watched this firsthand with like the Western Open, with
Speaker 4: that was the first golf event I went to. It
Speaker 4: used to be this massive, massive event. Now it's just
Speaker 4: become part of the PGA tour machine. It's part of
Speaker 4: the playoffs, and it's just like it doesn't have anything
Speaker 4: that feels, you know, like a big event outside of
Speaker 4: It's like this is where like what's interesting about the
Speaker 4: Western Open, which is now the BMW at this point,
Speaker 4: do you know what the most interesting thing about it.
Speaker 3: Is the stakes of getting into the top fifty.
Speaker 4: Is that what you're going relegation, right, Relegation like when
Speaker 4: there are stakes, Like that's the only the only events
Speaker 4: outside of like to me, the majors are events that
Speaker 4: have stakes in them, whether it's an Olympic gold medal, right,
Speaker 4: I think the Players has has a certain you know,
Speaker 4: mystique to it. The Ryder Cup obviously has the country aspect,
Speaker 4: but then when you get past that, it's really relegation
Speaker 4: and promotion moments are the are the ones that I
Speaker 4: think stand out, like it's it's silly, but like the
Speaker 4: Windom the Transformation, the Windom had a couple of years
Speaker 4: ago when they went to the top seventy out of
Speaker 4: the Windom and you had JT trying to make it
Speaker 4: into the top seventy, Like that's a real consequence when
Speaker 4: you get down to seventy and I think, like I think,
Speaker 4: like that's what Ryan likes about Monday Qualifiers is that
Speaker 4: there is a promotion aspect of it, you know, and
Speaker 4: an opportunity to go up to the next next level.
Speaker 4: And that's what like, I think what golf just needs
Speaker 4: more of a week in, week out basis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I you know, I think that golf. I
Speaker 1: think they tried to make the stakes in these signature
Speaker 1: events money and and and some like. This's just it
Speaker 1: reminds me of like when Live started, and you know,
Speaker 1: they would be like this puts for four million, Like
Speaker 1: the dude signed for two hundred and fifty. He doesn't
Speaker 1: care that it is for four million, right, And now
Speaker 1: we're talking about this at signature events like this is
Speaker 1: for two million. There is no real stakes and it's
Speaker 1: turned off. You know. Again, the seventy at Windham Is
Speaker 1: is important, right, and the fifty at BMW still had
Speaker 1: some buzz to it Keegan and Tom Kim and those
Speaker 1: kind of things, But the consequences are just almost zero.
Speaker 1: Out side of those very few moments for the top players,
Speaker 1: signature events don't have no I don't know what they
Speaker 1: can do to make the consequences significant enough for fans
Speaker 1: to care, you know, because they're the best players, they're
Speaker 1: all rich. It's not money. The regulation is for players
Speaker 1: that don't really it's confusing, like who gets it's not
Speaker 1: just cut and dried. Who's not going to be in
Speaker 1: the next one and those kind of things. So I
Speaker 1: don't know how they create buzz and and again when
Speaker 1: you have too many signature events, like they're all the same.
Speaker 1: I don't I can't name the signature events. If you said, Ryan,
Speaker 1: what's the signature events in twenty twenty five? No idea
Speaker 1: at and T I know. And outside of that, I like, oh,
Speaker 1: the OBC Heritage because like, who the hell wants to
Speaker 1: play another important round after another after a major. It's like, I.
Speaker 4: Don't forget about the travelers after the US Open.
Speaker 1: Travelers, travelers as all, no one wants to be there.
Speaker 1: Let's play for twenty five million, Ryan, I.
Speaker 3: Think this is where I'm glad we found common ground.
Speaker 3: And to me this week, I feel like I've been
Speaker 3: taking crazy pills a little bit and that the lead
Speaker 3: has been buried in all this conversation about the changes
Speaker 3: that I think are fairly negligible and honestly a step
Speaker 3: in the right direction is that we're running back the
Speaker 3: same product now for the foreseeable future and pretending it's
Speaker 3: some massive change when fans are actively rejecting it. And
Speaker 3: so that to me, the walls can come crashing down
Speaker 3: pretty quickly here on the PGA tour if some more
Speaker 3: sponsors start pulling the rug out a little bit and
Speaker 3: that should be the there's no urgency from the PGA
Speaker 3: tour to do something truly innovative. It feels like they
Speaker 3: think this is innovative. It's not, and we're about to
Speaker 3: run back the same product and it should be. I
Speaker 3: hope there's somebody in the organization sounding the alarm a
Speaker 3: little bit that twenty twenty five may not be exciting.
Speaker 3: And if they think twenty twenty six is going to
Speaker 3: be more exciting, I think it's pretty delusional.
Speaker 1: Yeah it again, Joseph. I think will disagree on the
Speaker 1: on the EDD, but the overarching is, you know, my
Speaker 1: question is, no matter how you feel, if you think
Speaker 1: it's good or you think it's bad, or it doesn't
Speaker 1: really matter in the scheme of things, how is the
Speaker 1: product better? And there is no answer to that, because
Speaker 1: there is. It's not. That's that's the thing. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: One hundred players, one hundred and twenty five, hundred and fifty.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what these changes have done to make
Speaker 1: it sellable to sponsors or fans going forward. Like to
Speaker 1: your point, it's just it's not an exciting product right now,
Speaker 1: and none of this is super exciting that it's going
Speaker 1: to be that much better in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4: And I think I think like the back half of this,
Speaker 4: when we talk about products, players talk about product a
Speaker 4: ton and and I think, like that's been the talking
Speaker 4: point we're got. We have to improve the product. I
Speaker 4: think like improving the product beyond just the schedule, the
Speaker 4: format goes to players raising their hand and being open
Speaker 4: to doing things like just let's just say the walk
Speaker 4: and talks. And I think like the interest in that
Speaker 4: has only dwindled over the since the inception, you know
Speaker 4: that came out of the gates hot. And it seems
Speaker 4: like to me that like the walk and talk is
Speaker 4: is almost like pulling teeth to get players to do it.
Speaker 4: And this is an example of where players like I
Speaker 4: don't think this is like an owner versus a player mentality.
Speaker 4: Do you think the players and the managers in Major
Speaker 4: League Baseball were like, yeah, we'd love to do in
Speaker 4: dugout interviews during the World Series or during playoff games. No,
Speaker 4: they don't want to do that. Nobody like the last
Speaker 4: thing they wanted to do. But you know who came
Speaker 4: in and said we need to do this is like
Speaker 4: the owner, the people that are looking out for the
Speaker 4: business and when the players are intertwined in in the
Speaker 4: ones looking out for the business, what you end up
Speaker 4: with is just the players looking out for their own business.
Speaker 4: And that's the issue, the product issue with the PGA Tour.
Speaker 3: Andy, I agree. I also think there just needs to
Speaker 3: be a little bit more of a back to basics
Speaker 3: with and this is talking to an echo chamber on
Speaker 3: this podcast, but the equipment has the equipment and the
Speaker 3: golf courses they play I think are going totally under
Speaker 3: the radar for how much that's holding the product back.
Speaker 3: And I think we need to focus on the gameplay itself,
Speaker 3: because a good broadcast where you're not stuffing commercials, you're
Speaker 3: showing the golf with equipment that doesn't de skill the
Speaker 3: sport at great venues is a very good product. There's
Speaker 3: so much we're talking about, so many other things, like
Speaker 3: I think getting back to the basics on that would
Speaker 3: solve a lot of their problems, frankly, more than a
Speaker 3: walk and talk, which like doesn't do a ton for
Speaker 3: me as a fan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean my pushback on the walk and talk
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, I mean, thank you for doing it.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they wanted wanted from us, like,
Speaker 1: we appreciate it. But NBA coaches, to Andy's point, I
Speaker 1: just saw Aaron Boone do an interview. He's getting demolished.
Speaker 1: It was like four to nothing. Freeman's just hit a
Speaker 1: blast for the fourth time in four games, and they're like, hey, Aaron,
Speaker 1: how does it feel? You know, it'd be like going
Speaker 1: up to Jordan and hold twelve on Sunday and be like, man,
Speaker 1: you just pounded two into the rays Creek. How do
Speaker 1: you feel about this? And like the walk and talk
Speaker 1: on Sunday or on Friday at the you know, travelers,
Speaker 1: and we're like, this is some groundbreaking stuff, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know, every sport has done it. Coaches do
Speaker 1: it in timeouts during the game seven, so they don't
Speaker 1: get a ton of credit for it. It's not revolutionary.
Speaker 1: And yet I mean, obviously, Joseph, you're right about equipment.
Speaker 1: It's kind of made everyone, to Andy's point, the much closer.
Speaker 1: It's hard to break out. He can't be a great player,
Speaker 1: or they're all together, whatever side of it you're on.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just don't know. I just don't know
Speaker 1: what what is going forward That there was nothing about
Speaker 1: fans in that proposal, right, Like, there's nothing like hey,
Speaker 1: we're willing to do this, or we should do this
Speaker 1: or anything. It's like, hey, how do we take care
Speaker 1: of ourselves? And here you go, this is what we're doing.
Speaker 4: It's interesting times for the PGA tour in this fans.
Speaker 4: I think, like, you know, this is obviously something that's
Speaker 4: being proposed to the pack.
Speaker 2: It's not locked in.
Speaker 4: But do you guys have any you know, do you
Speaker 4: think this is what will we'll get across the finish line?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean from the people I've talked to, is
Speaker 1: a done deal. So there might be very slight adjustments,
Speaker 1: but I would be sho if there's anything that would
Speaker 1: drastically change from what's being proposed. This has been kind
Speaker 1: of worked on for a long time. Let me say
Speaker 1: I think it's been worked on by a certain set
Speaker 1: of players on the pack. I don't think it's been
Speaker 1: It's been worked on by everyone. So yeah, I think
Speaker 1: this is a this is a done deal.
Speaker 3: Sure you I trust that, Ryan, And frankly like, I
Speaker 3: think it should be passed mainly because I honestly think
Speaker 3: the only difference you're really going to feel for the
Speaker 3: majority of people is that more corn fairy tour guys
Speaker 3: are going to get opportunities faster at the expense of
Speaker 3: the back end of the FedEx Cup, and that is
Speaker 3: what should happen. So are these changes radical enough to
Speaker 3: turn the product around now? Absolutely not, and that's my
Speaker 3: issue with it. But I don't have a problem with
Speaker 3: the changes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I land somewhere as it's a small step in
Speaker 4: the right direction, but overarching, there needs to be a
Speaker 4: giant leap in the right direction in the in the
Speaker 4: very near future for for the long term health of
Speaker 4: professional men's professional golf. And I think I think like
Speaker 4: there are a lot of ways you could go about it,
Speaker 4: but like a lot of the thinking needs to be
Speaker 4: outside the box that we're currently living in.
Speaker 2: Ryan, Do you have any parting thoughts?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would be on the opposite end of Joseph
Speaker 1: and you're in the middle. But I think my closing
Speaker 1: thoughts is this is a very selfish game, and I
Speaker 1: think we're seeing a lot a lot of that reflected
Speaker 1: in the changes. When players have control, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a notoriously selfish game, and it's hard to when you
Speaker 1: have control like that not see that this is the
Speaker 1: result they're they're doing what is best for them at
Speaker 1: this time. So I mean, I hope I love the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour and I've been a golf nerd my entire life.
Speaker 1: I don't want the product to stink and whatever that is.
Speaker 1: If this if in twenty at the end of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six, I'm like, Man, I was super wrong and
Speaker 1: this is great. I hope that I'm wrong because I
Speaker 1: want the PGA Tour to be successful and I hope
Speaker 1: that that's the case.
Speaker 4: I think at the end of twenty twenty six will
Speaker 4: probably feel just about the same as you feel right now. Yeah,
Speaker 4: So not to be not to be a Debbie downer,
Speaker 4: but that's I think the state of where the structure
Speaker 4: of the PGA Tour is at. And I think, you know,
Speaker 4: this was a fun chat with some different opinions, but
Speaker 4: I think we all kind of land the same place,
Speaker 4: which is probably not a good sign for the state
Speaker 4: to the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 4: Thanks Ry, you could read his work at monday q
Speaker 4: dot com. And Joseph, who writes regularly for our newsletter,
Speaker 4: as a regular guest on this podcast, Thank you guys
Speaker 4: for coming on.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday
Speaker 4: Golf Podcast. Today's episode was edited and produced by PJ Clark.
Speaker 4: Big thanks to PJ for grinding putting this together. If
Speaker 4: you haven't yet, take a swing over to our pro shop.
Speaker 4: We've got tons of stuff in that pro shop for fall.
Speaker 4: Temperatures are getting cold, cooler. I've noticed it even out
Speaker 4: here in California. Get some fall in winter layers. We've
Speaker 4: got a bunch of different stuff in the pro Shop.
Speaker 4: I would recommend the American Needle Crew necks in there.
Speaker 4: I saw those at a pro shop in the spring
Speaker 4: and said immediately said Meg, we've got to get some
Speaker 4: of these in our shop, so we have those for
Speaker 4: the fall. Meg's done an awesome job stocking the shop.
Speaker 4: It is Proshop dot Thefrida Egg dot com. Uh, go
Speaker 4: in there and get some get some Frida Egg golf swag.
Speaker 4: All right, Thanks, we'll be back next week. We've got
Speaker 4: a golf architecture pod coming early next week. We'll be
Speaker 4: back talking golf architecture early next week.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening and have a great weekend.