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Speaker 1: network is busy. Additional fees, usage and restrictions apply. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation

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Speaker 1: about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions

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Speaker 1: we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dr joy hard and Bradford, a licensed

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Speaker 1: psychologist in Atlanta. Jo our JAF. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship

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Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me for session one sixty seven of

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Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. If there's anything we

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Speaker 1: can use right now and in the coming months, it's

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Speaker 1: self compassion. Today, I'm joined by Dr Kristin Neff to

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Speaker 1: chat about the many ways self compassion can be a

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Speaker 1: helpful tool to us to get through these difficult times.

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Speaker 1: Kristen is currently an Associate professor of Educational Psychology at

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Speaker 1: the University of Texas at Austin. She's a pioneer in

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Speaker 1: the field of self compassion research, conducting the first empirical

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Speaker 1: studies on self compassion over fifteen years ago. In addition

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Speaker 1: to writing numerous academic articles and book chapters on the topic.

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Speaker 1: She is the author of this book, self Compassion, The

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Speaker 1: Proven Power of being Kind to Yourself, released by William Morrow.

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Speaker 1: In conjunction with her colleague, doctor Chris Jermer, she has

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Speaker 1: developed an empirically supported training program called Mindful Self Compassion,

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Speaker 1: which is taught by thousands of teachers worldwide. Dr Neff

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Speaker 1: and I chatted about what self compassion is, how is

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Speaker 1: different from self esteem, how it can be helpful in

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Speaker 1: mediating difficult emotions, and her favorite activity for practicing self compassion.

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Speaker 1: If anything resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please

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Speaker 1: share it with us on social media using the hashtag

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Speaker 1: tbg in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us today, Chris, and I'm really really excited

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Speaker 1: to chat with you. Self compassion was our Yellow Cos

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Speaker 1: Collective book club choice for last month, so it feels

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Speaker 1: very timely for you to be joining us for this conversation. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's great, wonderful and happy to be here. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you could start just by talking with

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Speaker 1: us about what self compassion is and what it isn't. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: the easiest way to think of what self compassion is

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Speaker 1: is simply being a good friend to yourself. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: in terms of how you relate to yourself, especially when

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Speaker 1: you're struggling, you're struggling because you feel inadequate, or you

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Speaker 1: made this mistake, or just when life is really difficult,

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Speaker 1: that you treat yourself with the same type of kindness, warmth, care, support,

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Speaker 1: concern that you would naturally show to a good friend, right,

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Speaker 1: And most of us actually don't do that. Most of

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Speaker 1: us if we talk to our friends where we talk

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Speaker 1: to ourselves, we would have no friends, right. And so really,

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Speaker 1: self compassion is just turning that around, kind of doing

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Speaker 1: a you turn and being kind of supportive to ourselves. Now,

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Speaker 1: some people get confused about this. I think that being

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Speaker 1: nice to ourselves mean, you know, being self indulgent, being lazy,

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Speaker 1: being selfish. But actually that's not compassionate. Right. So so

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Speaker 1: if you if you want, the technical definition of compassion

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Speaker 1: is concerned with the alleviation of suffering, right. And so

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Speaker 1: when you're self indulgent or you're lazy, or you know,

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Speaker 1: you aren't helping yourself and you aren't actually lie beating

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Speaker 1: your suffering, you're actually causing yourself more problems in the wrong.

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Speaker 1: Un Also, you know, the word compassion comes from the

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Speaker 1: Latin passion means to suffer and and come means with

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Speaker 1: So there's an inherent connectedness in self compassion. It's a

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Speaker 1: sense that, well, everyone's imperfect, everyone's struggling, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not just me. And this is what makes self compassion

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Speaker 1: different than something like self pity. And with self compassion,

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Speaker 1: we just remember that this is part of the shared

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Speaker 1: human experience, you know, So it's not just me. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, I have to say that, especially in

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Speaker 1: today's times, whenever I say that, some people think this

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Speaker 1: is like a coded version of like all lives matter, right, then,

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Speaker 1: some of it doesn't acknowledge that some groups suffer more

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Speaker 1: than others. Absolutely they do. The amount of suffering is

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Speaker 1: different and the source of suffering is different. All people

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Speaker 1: in all groups do not suffer the same way, and

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Speaker 1: so we need to acknowledge that as part of the

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Speaker 1: human experience. And yet every single individual, especially when it

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Speaker 1: comes to relating to their own suffering, their own suffering

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Speaker 1: is valid. If you're in pain, if you treat your

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Speaker 1: own pain with a kind of a kind caring response,

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Speaker 1: you will be able to turn your attention outward more effectively.

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Speaker 1: So it really sounds like you know, sometimes we hear

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Speaker 1: this conversation around like grief Olympics are pain Olympics, right

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Speaker 1: where we're trying to say like, oh, my hurt is

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Speaker 1: bigger than your heart, right, yeah, exactly, It's not like that.

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Speaker 1: You aren't saying that my pain is bigger or smaller.

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Speaker 1: I mean you recognize that people's pain different. It's very important,

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Speaker 1: I think, especially nowadays, and we have to recognize, like

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Speaker 1: you know, through structural reasons, the pain of all people

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Speaker 1: is not the same. And yet with self compassion, we

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Speaker 1: can treat our own pain as worthy of a compassionate response.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're just saying that, hey, I am in pain,

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Speaker 1: I am imperfect, and I'm not the only one. It's

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Speaker 1: very simple in that way. But the reason that's so

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Speaker 1: important is because if you get into self pity like

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Speaker 1: what was me for me? Like victim mentality, that's actually

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Speaker 1: not helpfully because the wisdom element to self compassion seeing

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Speaker 1: the bigger picture of things and your place in it.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting that you mentioned like the structural inequalities

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Speaker 1: that have of course lead to some people suffering being

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Speaker 1: different than others. And there's a quote in your book

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Speaker 1: that talks about and we know this as psychologists, right,

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Speaker 1: that often the critical voice that we established comes from

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Speaker 1: our parents are early caregivers. So the quote in your

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Speaker 1: book is people with critical parents learned the message early

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Speaker 1: on and that they're so bad and flawed that they

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Speaker 1: have no right to be accepted for who they are.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the way that this sometimes plays out,

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Speaker 1: especially in black communities, is that there does tend to

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Speaker 1: be a tendency for parents to maybe be a little

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Speaker 1: more critical as a means of survival. Right, So I

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Speaker 1: need to try to toughen you up for the world

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Speaker 1: before the world has an opportunity to take advantage of you. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and so that can be done by parents and also

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Speaker 1: individuals as well. There's this sense being harsh with yourself

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Speaker 1: it's something going to toughen you up, and the problem

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Speaker 1: is that actually doesn't work. But we know, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of research showing that when combat veterans who

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Speaker 1: came back from Iraq and Afghanistan I actually saw combat overseas,

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Speaker 1: and so those soldiers who are more supportive to themselves,

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Speaker 1: warm with themselves, were less luckily to develop post traumatic

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Speaker 1: stress syndrome. And so any sort of traumatic situation, whether

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Speaker 1: you know it's a war zone, or whether it's racism,

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Speaker 1: or whether it's sexual assault, or whether it's going through

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Speaker 1: a divorce, or whether it's raising a special needs child. Right,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of different sources of a struggle in life.

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Speaker 1: If you think of it as when you go into battle,

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Speaker 1: if you're an ally to yourself, if you have your

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Speaker 1: own back, if you're there, if you know that you've

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Speaker 1: got your own support, you aren't gonna abandon yourself. You know,

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Speaker 1: by just not attending to your problems, you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: a warm and supportive and carrying, you're gonna be stronger

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Speaker 1: in battle than if you're an enemy. Cutting yourself down,

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Speaker 1: shaming yourself, that actually doesn't help to be supportive. Supportive

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean conneling. Sometimes it has to be tough love.

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Speaker 1: But but the difference is there's love. There is that

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Speaker 1: the support comes from a place of love, as opposed

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Speaker 1: to saying you're inadequate, you aren't good enough. And the

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Speaker 1: second you start saying you're inadequate, you aren't good enough

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Speaker 1: and shaming yourself and actually pulls the rug out from

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Speaker 1: underneath you and makes it harder to get through difficult situations.

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Speaker 1: And it's easy to think about when we think about

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Speaker 1: raising our kids. Logically you may have to use tough love.

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Speaker 1: But if you tell your kid you're a worthless loser,

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Speaker 1: you know, how is that going to help them? So

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you can say more about the difference

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Speaker 1: between tough love and being critical. I like to talk

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Speaker 1: about there's two types of self compassion. There's yen and

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Speaker 1: young self compassion, and so Yen self compassion since I'm

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Speaker 1: borrowing from Chinese philosophy and is kind of more the

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Speaker 1: passive way of just being with what is very important

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Speaker 1: to be receptive to what is and the young is

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Speaker 1: like taking action where we might have to protect ourselves

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Speaker 1: or you might have to change something motivated change and

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Speaker 1: we always need both right and so being very critical

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Speaker 1: toward ourselves, like harshly critical. There's no yin there's no

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Speaker 1: self acceptance. It's like unless I achieve I'm worthless right

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Speaker 1: or with with the parent, it might be unless unless

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Speaker 1: you do this, I don't love you. So it's so

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Speaker 1: it's in balance. It's all just like action, take action

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Speaker 1: or else. And there's no love same sametime love without

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Speaker 1: like any young. I mean maybe soft love can be coddling.

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Speaker 1: It can be like, you know, just accepting everything you

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Speaker 1: do and sometimes actually causing harm to yourself and others.

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Speaker 1: And it's really not acceptable. You know, you really have

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Speaker 1: to do something to make a change. And so it's

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Speaker 1: like wisdom is this balance of acceptance and change, and

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Speaker 1: we always need both. And so with self compassion, what

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Speaker 1: you have is the bottom line is I care about myself.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna support myself. I'm not gonna abandon myself. It's

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Speaker 1: like an athletic coach, you know, athletes talk about the

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Speaker 1: difference there's some coaches that just like you know, whip

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Speaker 1: their players in shape, that like beat them down, and

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Speaker 1: it kind of works, but it's not as effective as

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Speaker 1: a really good coach. You may have very high standards

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Speaker 1: to be very exacting, and yet it's clear that the

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Speaker 1: coach is doing it because they believe in you and

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Speaker 1: they want you to achieve your best. And so it's

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Speaker 1: a sense of do I belong and then my worthy

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Speaker 1: of care and respect that makes all the difference in

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Speaker 1: terms of how it impacts this psychologically. So it sounds

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Speaker 1: like there needs to be an understanding of the child

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Speaker 1: or whoever is worth before you can really get into

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Speaker 1: some of this tough love. Like the love has to

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Speaker 1: actually be established, because if you don't, if you don't

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Speaker 1: establish the love, and if it's just criticism and it's

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Speaker 1: not clear that the love and acceptances there and what

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Speaker 1: it's going to do is it actually becomes counterproductive. Right.

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Speaker 1: You may kind of work harder because you're afraid of

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Speaker 1: being punished, so to speak, but it undermines your self confidence.

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Speaker 1: It creates performance anxiety, which is actually gonna make it

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Speaker 1: harder for you to achieve. On the con set of

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Speaker 1: such fear that you actually start like not paying attention

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Speaker 1: to things properly because you don't want to go there.

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Speaker 1: If you might start procrastinating, for instance, because you're so

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Speaker 1: afraid of feeling and all, that actually works against your

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Speaker 1: ability to achieve your goals. M hm. So I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: if you have some tips, Dr Nef for how you

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Speaker 1: can start to unravel this idea that criticism needs to

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Speaker 1: be linked to survival, like somebody, you know, let's say

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Speaker 1: somebody is listening and you know they have felt like

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Speaker 1: they need to be super tough on their little one

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Speaker 1: to kind to get them to be will in society.

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Speaker 1: What kind of stuff might they be able to take

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Speaker 1: to start unraveling some of that. So there's constructive criticism

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Speaker 1: and destructive criticism, right. Constructive criticism is here's what's not

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Speaker 1: working out, So well, here's where you might try to fixing.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a truism, but isn't it true failures

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Speaker 1: our best teacher. Part of self compassion is protecting yourself.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, I'm a white woman, right, and

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna own that. And so I'm coming from

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Speaker 1: a different perspective. By the way, I think self compassion

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Speaker 1: is absolutely necessary for white people to wake up. But

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Speaker 1: we that's a different conversation. But just to say so,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking from this perspective, so I don't know from firsthand,

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Speaker 1: do you know the perspective of a woman in terms

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Speaker 1: of oppression. So self compassion means protecting yourself, standing up

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Speaker 1: for yourself, and you have to be very vigilant. You

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Speaker 1: have to be very vigilant, you know, for microaggressions and

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Speaker 1: any sort of discriminatory behavior. You have to be tough.

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Speaker 1: But the toughness doesn't come from like I'm gonna beat

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Speaker 1: myself up before someone else beats me up, because that's

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Speaker 1: actually a good help you. You know. The toughness comes

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Speaker 1: from I am worthy, I am strong, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I will do my best and I'm not gonna take

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Speaker 1: any discriminatory behavior. I'm not going to accept that. I

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Speaker 1: being a woman in academia is you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty sexist place still, and so you you really, you

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Speaker 1: really have to stand up for yourself and be tough

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Speaker 1: as nails. Destructive criticism is is just like shaming yourself

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Speaker 1: and you are good enough and you can do better.

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Speaker 1: We're carrying is like you know, listen, you know I

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Speaker 1: love you, accept you as you are, and yet because

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Speaker 1: I care about you, I think you can do better.

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Speaker 1: Here's what's not working so well, here's how we're gonna change.

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Speaker 1: Here's what you need to do to protect yourself. And

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Speaker 1: you need to protect yourself because you know you care

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Speaker 1: about yourself. It's a difference in tone, but the tone

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Speaker 1: makes a huge difference. And it makes a huge difference

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Speaker 1: because one creates anxiety. One lessons anxiety because you feel supported,

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Speaker 1: you know, and anxiet iety and fear and all those things,

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Speaker 1: fear of failure, they actually work directly against you if

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Speaker 1: you start going down the path of shame. Shame is

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Speaker 1: not going to help you get through in the world.

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Speaker 1: Right So for parents wanting to make sure that kids

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Speaker 1: are tough, shaming them is not going to help. But

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Speaker 1: you can make kids tough by learning them that you

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Speaker 1: believe in them, but also that you know you need

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Speaker 1: to really teach them how to stand up for themselves

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Speaker 1: in a way that's effective. Is it's all about like effectiveness,

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Speaker 1: what works as opposed to self worth. It's about the

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Speaker 1: behavior of the actions as opposed to the value of

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Speaker 1: the person. The value of the person has to be unassailable.

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Speaker 1: So in your book you talk a lot about the

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Speaker 1: difference between self compassion and self esteem. Can you say

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Speaker 1: more about the difference, So that's also really important. One.

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Speaker 1: There is some overlap in the sense that they both

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Speaker 1: deal with kind of human value and worthiness. But the

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Speaker 1: self compassion the human value is unconditional. It's like, I

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Speaker 1: am a flawed human being who makes mistakes, who get

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Speaker 1: things wrong, who I difficult things happen, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be kind to myself because I'm a human being intrinsically

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Speaker 1: worthy of care. Right. There is unconditional self esteem as well.

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Speaker 1: It's very similar, but most often self esteem is conditional. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: for instance, we need to feel special and about average

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Speaker 1: to have high self esteem is not okay to the average,

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Speaker 1: which is a problem because that's a logical impossibility, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so if you aren't worthy, if you're average, well,

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Speaker 1: then you know that that's a problem because we're average

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Speaker 1: by definition. It also tends to be based on social comparison,

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Speaker 1: you know, like how do I compare to another person

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Speaker 1: in terms of like attractiveness or popularity or success. And

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Speaker 1: if we feel we don't measure up, then our self

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Speaker 1: esteem takes a hit. You know, this social comparison can

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Speaker 1: leads some pretty nasty behaviors. So we know, for instance,

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Speaker 1: that bullying, which starts in early adolescence. One of the

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Speaker 1: reasons kids bully others is to try to feel good

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Speaker 1: about themselves and give themselves the self esteem boost if

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Speaker 1: you successfully pick on a nerdy kid, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: feel good about myself, and you know, other kids may

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Speaker 1: look up to me, you know. And then in the

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Speaker 1: adult realm, it's a contributing factor to things like prejudice. Now,

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Speaker 1: obviously prejudice is bigger than self esteem. It's also about

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Speaker 1: power and resources, so you know, not to say that

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Speaker 1: it's not. And yet some element is that my group,

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Speaker 1: my racial group, my anti group, my religious group, my

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Speaker 1: gender group, whatever group it is, you know, my sexual

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Speaker 1: orientation group. But I feel that my group is better

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Speaker 1: than yours. It makes me feel it gives me a

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Speaker 1: self esteem boost. Right, that's like some one of the

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Speaker 1: nasty consequences of needing self esteem. And then also it

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Speaker 1: tends to be unstable, right, So like self esteem is

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Speaker 1: therefore when things are going our way, But what happens

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Speaker 1: when we fail or make a huge mistake or do

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Speaker 1: something we regret, you know, or don't reach your goals.

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Speaker 1: Then precisely when we need a friend, the sense of support,

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Speaker 1: our self esteem deserts us. Right, But I do want

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Speaker 1: to go back to something you just said though, like

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Speaker 1: this idea of being ondensic. But this comes up a

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Speaker 1: lot in our community, in the larger therapy for black

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Speaker 1: growth community, especially as it relates to Black women in

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Speaker 1: the workplace. So this idea that you can be as

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Speaker 1: authentic as you want, but that doesn't mean that other

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Speaker 1: people don't still have these stereotypes or ideas about who

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Speaker 1: you are in the workplace. So I'm wondering, like, how

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Speaker 1: do you use at tension of that. This is why

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Speaker 1: we really both need the kind of yen and young

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Speaker 1: self compassion. So self compassion can help kind of give

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Speaker 1: you inner strength to be able to not be so

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed by it. You're more able to deal with things

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Speaker 1: that come your way. But it's not enough. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's not enough as a society. We need to start

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Speaker 1: working together to change things. I certainly consider myself a feminist.

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Speaker 1: You know, women need to change things, and of course

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Speaker 1: we can't deal with feminism without also dealing with racism.

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Speaker 1: They're all interlinked, they're all intersect Hopefully, at this time

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Speaker 1: in history, we're finally finally seeing that things have to change.

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Speaker 1: And I do think that as part of caring for ourselves,

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Speaker 1: we have to care for, you know, other people. We

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Speaker 1: need to make things equal for everyone. You know, whether

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Speaker 1: this is done through voting or just you know, changing

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Speaker 1: how things are a company, we know those we need

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Speaker 1: to take action. So self compassion absolutely helps. It will

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Speaker 1: helps you be strong, It'll it'll motivate you, it'll give

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Speaker 1: you the energy to be authentic as you try to

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Speaker 1: make the change. But it's not enough. It can't be

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Speaker 1: done at the individual level. We absolutely have to change

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Speaker 1: the social systems. I can get in this point. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not a white male, but I'm a white woman,

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Speaker 1: and I know, just kind of from my own personal

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Speaker 1: journey that self compassion has been really key for me

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Speaker 1: to be able to recognize my privilege because what happens

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Speaker 1: is as I don't need to tell you this, but

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Speaker 1: it's like, I'm not a racist, I'm not a bad person.

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Speaker 1: And then so because you don't want to go there,

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Speaker 1: you tend to kind of look away and kind of

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Speaker 1: disclaim any of that, Well, that's it's not me who's

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Speaker 1: doing that. So I think self compassion and by the way,

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Speaker 1: the Center for Bindful Self Compassion, we're really trying to

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Speaker 1: bring this out as much as we can. In other words,

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Speaker 1: how self compassion can help people who have more privilege

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Speaker 1: recognize their privilege. Well, it's not that I'm a racist.

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Speaker 1: It's just that I've unconsciously incorporated these, you know, stereotypes

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Speaker 1: from watching TV and just for being in society. It's

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Speaker 1: like when you when you have compassion and you support

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Speaker 1: yourself and you don't shame yourself, then you're more able

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Speaker 1: to say, okay, yeah, I see that. Okay. Then then

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Speaker 1: it kind of gives you the ability to see more clearly,

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Speaker 1: to be more awake in terms of your role and things.

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Speaker 1: And then I think the more and more we can

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Speaker 1: do that for all people. If more were able to

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Speaker 1: like use self compassion to take responsibility and to see

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Speaker 1: their own privilege and to see their own role in

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Speaker 1: the unequal power structure, hopefully that will be a key

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Speaker 1: to change. Again, that's still this replace action you see,

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Speaker 1: still need action. You need both personally. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know for sure, but I think one of the

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Speaker 1: barriers the people taking action is the sense. So it's

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Speaker 1: not me. The shame is kind of like made people

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Speaker 1: not willing to take action. So I'm hoping that self

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Speaker 1: compassion plays some role in kind of releasing some of

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Speaker 1: the blocks the people taking action. We'll see. I just

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Speaker 1: hope things start to change. I think there's a different

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Speaker 1: sense in the air. And I really do think at

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Speaker 1: least I hope it's my wish that self compassion place

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Speaker 1: some role to releasing the blocks for people who have

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Speaker 1: powered seeing their home role in the system. But you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll see. I'll certainly do everything I can that makes

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Speaker 1: sense to that. Yeah, that ling for you, Dr Roy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think that there's a part of it

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Speaker 1: that makes sense as a practitioner, but as a human

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Speaker 1: it also sounds like a very hand holding, very soft

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Speaker 1: approach when it feels like black people don't have that opportunity,

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Speaker 1: right like we don't have the privilege of, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of passively examining our stuff when it feels like

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Speaker 1: we're the ones being perpetrated against. Yeah, and I know,

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Speaker 1: and I've had that reaction. I think it's it's definitely

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Speaker 1: worth a conversation. It's like I think it has to

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Speaker 1: accompany action. It's a bit that I feel I can contribute,

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Speaker 1: like that, do you wake up? But it's definitely not enough.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like if I talk about it, I've had

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Speaker 1: people like, you know, because I've written some blogs about this,

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Speaker 1: and I've had people say, well, that's very nice for you,

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Speaker 1: but it's not enough. It's like, yeah, I know it's

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Speaker 1: not enough, but it's first step. So maybe it's the

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Speaker 1: type of thing where maybe I just maybe as something

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Speaker 1: that should be done internally and not externally, because I

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Speaker 1: know from your point of view, was like, well that's

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Speaker 1: a fine and well but you know that was like

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Speaker 1: that should have been done like so long ago, you

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Speaker 1: know you know what I mean? Right, Um, it's maybe

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Speaker 1: that's something that needs to be done just within my community,

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Speaker 1: among ourselves because you shouldn't have to care about that,

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Speaker 1: right right, And I mean again, it makes sense right

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Speaker 1: because we know that shame. We've already talked about that.

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Speaker 1: We know that shame is not a helpful motivator. It's

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Speaker 1: not a helpful motivator. Yeah, and but yeah, so so

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Speaker 1: actually needs to be taken for sure, and liking for that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm just you know, willing to do whatever

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Speaker 1: I can. Part of the problem is is kind of

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Speaker 1: knowing exactly what to do and how to do it

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Speaker 1: other than voting and things like that. It's it's a structural,

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Speaker 1: entrenched problem. Hopefully my small contribution as we do the

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Speaker 1: hard work of change, I think the more we're able

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Speaker 1: to do it in a way that supportive only and supportive,

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Speaker 1: I mean we need support. Everyone needs support. And actually,

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Speaker 1: Dr Jo, you said that black people don't have the

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Speaker 1: privilege of doing that. Do you feel you don't have

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Speaker 1: the privilege of being supportive to yourself as you make change?

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Speaker 1: I mean, like just kind of like emotionally, like just

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Speaker 1: got your own back. You know, you're gonna be strong,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna be there for yourself. Oh no, I don't

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Speaker 1: think I was talking about it generally. I was just

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Speaker 1: talking about it more in terms of like the structural

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Speaker 1: racism peace Right, then it feels like we don't we

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Speaker 1: don't like really have the luxury of like taking time

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Speaker 1: because this has been happening for hundreds of years at

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Speaker 1: this point. Yeah, but I'm just curious, do you think

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Speaker 1: that a practice of self compassion can help at all

427
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,479
Speaker 1: as the work is being done, or is it just

428
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: like not kneeling enough. It is it worth doing at all?

429
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: Or is it not even worth the time? You mean

430
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: for the white community. For the black community, Oh, I'm curious,

431
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: and I'm really asking open minded. I think it has

432
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: a role to play and helping. I definitely do think

433
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: it is because I think what happens a lot of times,

434
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: especially if like we go back to the example of

435
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: like black women in the workplace, a lot of times

436
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: of course we can't get the answers to like why

437
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: people are reacting to us in certain ways, and so

438
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: we internalize it, right, Whereas I think self compassion can

439
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: help us to really recognize, like this is really not

440
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: about me. Yeah, and especially this called fear self compassion,

441
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: So it's not just about like the softness. Sometimes it's

442
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: like that is not okay, that is not you. I'm

443
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: not gonna know, I'm not gonna take that. I'm starting

444
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 1: to cheach these fear self compassion workshops, which are more

445
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: about empowerment. You know, how do we support ourselves in empowerment.

446
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: It's a little different for black women because of the history,

447
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: but for white woman there's just been the kind of socialization.

448
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: Is you know, you aren't allowed to get angry. People

449
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: won't like you if you're angry. And that's why for

450
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: a lot of women it's very hard for them to

451
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: stand up for themselves because they've been socialize it. Well,

452
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: you aren't pretty when you're you know, all this bullshit

453
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: if I can say that yet, you know, And so

454
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: I do think this idea of fearselfs sometimes I like

455
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: to call it mama bear self compassion, like that power

456
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: of a you know, mama bear, Like have you threatened

457
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: her cubs head off? Well, I think women need if

458
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: you threaten us, you know, we're gonna call them that

459
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: fierce powerful energy that we have inside of ourselves. We

460
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: actually haven't been been able to access said maybe as

461
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: fully as as we might because of gender socialization. So

462
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, we we need to kind of, I think,

463
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 1: really confront all the factors of socialization that keeps us

464
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: from being our kind of true, authentic full cells and

465
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: so that and I think if we were able to

466
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: do that out of being we speaking a much better place. Yeah,

467
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: And I mean I would love to hear more about

468
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: this fear self compassion because as I hear you talk

469
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: about it, right, So we we know that black women

470
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: are already deemed to be angry, right, Like, the expectation

471
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: is that at any moment, a black woman is going

472
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: to kind of snap on you, so to speak. And

473
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: so when I hear you talk about like bringing this

474
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: fear self compassion to like the work place, my thinking

475
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: is that this is not gonna work for black women

476
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: because we're already so worried about being seen as angry.

477
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: I think maybe it has to be more of an

478
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 1: internal job. Might has to be more of an internal job, like,

479
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: for instance, really owning your anger and like really honoring

480
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: the place for it. And yet yeah, you're you're gonna

481
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: be facing different issues in terms of other people's perceptions.

482
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: So there's the compassion, which is how am I relating

483
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: to myself, which is the self compassion, and then there's

484
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: the wisdom of how do I act most effectively in

485
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: the world. And they aren't exactly the same, right, So

486
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: how you relate to yourself may be slightly different than

487
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: what you present at work in terms of what's going

488
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: to be more effective. So it's all very complicated and

489
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: like the one easy answer. But so what I do

490
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: know is that self compassion certainly has a role to

491
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: play in terms of how we relate to ourselves in

492
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 1: the midst of all this complicated stuff that we're happy

493
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: to do with you know that we need to do it. Yeah,

494
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: that makes sense. So I mean, I think that this

495
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: feels like a natural tie into something else I wanted

496
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: to talk to you about. So there is also a

497
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: portion of your book where you talk about generational trauma,

498
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: and you know, the the idea that pain and dysfunction

499
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: get passed down from generation to generation. Can you talk

500
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: more about the cycle and maybe some approaches to stepping

501
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: out of that system. I really do think that obviously

502
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: we carry not just what we have in in our lifetimes,

503
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: we do carry generational trauma. I had a recent experience

504
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: with someone who was very close to me that turned

505
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: out to be a sex preditor, and it really really

506
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: shook me. And if someone who was very very close

507
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: to me that was preyed upon, and it was interesting

508
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: as I was going through it, as I was feeling

509
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: my anger arise, I realized that it wasn't just like me,

510
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: or wasn't just this person was very close to but

511
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: it was like generations that you know, when you tap

512
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: into some of this pain it's just like you know,

513
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: it's ancient, it's connected with none of those We aren't

514
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: isolated individuals, were situated in the culture and a history

515
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: in society, and the pain we may experience is connected

516
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: to a whole history of pain. And so again, and

517
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: you're just coming back to the self compassion. The first

518
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: thing is just to be able to knowledge that pain right,

519
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: just to own it, just to say wow, you know,

520
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: just to really turn toward it and hold the pain.

521
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: If one thing self compassion is good for, it is

522
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: the ability to be able to hold pain without being overwhelmed.

523
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: Because what happens is when we get in contact with pain,

524
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: every single cell in our body just wants to be

525
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: out of there. Right, this is just way too much.

526
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: And sometimes we do have to be out of there

527
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: because it is too much. But the more we can

528
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: hold our pain and kind of the sense of love

529
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: and care and support and you know, I'm here for

530
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: myself and it's okay, and I'm not going to abandon myself.

531
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: I'm present, I care, you know, kind of this warmth

532
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: with this love and actually allows us to hold the pain.

533
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: It's not going to make the pain go away. Self

534
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: compassion is not a magic bullet. It doesn't make pain

535
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: go away. There's actually nothing that makes pain go away.

536
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: But it helps us hold the pain, and it helps

537
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: us survive the pain, helps us get through the pain.

538
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: And in it's the process of trying to avoid the

539
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: pain and sidestep it and to pretend it's not there

540
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: that gets us into trouble, or you know, we get

541
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: into behaviors that aren't helpful as a way to avoid

542
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: the pain, like you know, alcohol or drugs, or or

543
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: you know, sex or does anything overeating does anything that

544
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: kind of helps us avoid the pain. So what self

545
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: compassion can do is it helps us open to the pain.

546
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: It also helps us not identify with it so much.

547
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: It's almost hard to put into words. But in your

548
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: sense of self gets locked into the pain, then like

549
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: your sense of self becomes quickly overwhelmed. But if you

550
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: like expand the sense of self, so you're kind of

551
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: a consciousness who's experiencing the pain, you're also experiencing the

552
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: love and the care along with the pain, and your

553
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: sense of self isn't so like, this isn't so narrow,

554
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: it's like broader. I am, I am a human being,

555
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm part of this larger unfolding experience, and

556
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: if you're a spiritual person you can add in some

557
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: spiritual way its parts to that. Then it's not so overwhelming.

558
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: The end is self compassion is the most important element

559
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: for the healing. This kind of accepts this, this is

560
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: how it is. You know, I need to accept that

561
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: this is how it is because this is reality. Can

562
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: I be kind to myself, warm with myself, caring for myself?

563
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, this hurts so bad, darling, you know

564
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: I'm here for you. Now actually allows us to be

565
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: with it and to heal from the pain. And then

566
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: the young self compassion is about the what are the

567
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: concrete action steps I can take and make things better.

568
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: It has to always be in the future moments, because

569
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: right now this is how it is. How can I

570
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: make things better so that as a future unfolds and

571
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: unfolds in a healthier way. Does that make sense? Yes? Absolutely? Yeah.

572
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: I like that you keep coming back to the un

573
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: and the young to give us examples of what that

574
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: looks like. Yeah, because it really has to be both.

575
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: If it's just opening the pain without changing things, that

576
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: does not very much help. But if it's just all

577
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: about change, like, we gotta take action, we gotta do this.

578
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: There's no sense of first of all, opening to what

579
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: is then that's not healthy either. We need the acceptance

580
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: and the love at the same time that we're taking

581
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: concrete steps towards change. Yeah, without the others incomplete and

582
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: is unbalanced and it's actually ultimately not gonna be very effective.

583
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: So it definitely feels like Kristen, your concepts related to

584
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: self compassion can be super helpful right now, you know,

585
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: I mean in my community, lots of people are experiencing

586
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,239
Speaker 1: increasing stress. You know, we already know what's been going

587
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: on for the past couple of months, but we also

588
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: know that schools are reopening, and so there has been

589
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: lots of conversation in the community just around how in

590
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: the world are we gonna do all of this? And

591
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: so I'm curious to hear if you have any thoughts

592
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: about like what self compassion looks like as we are,

593
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, continuing to try to work from home, continuing

594
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: to try to educate from home, Like what concep tips

595
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: might you have? The first really important thing is just

596
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: to pause and take a moment to kind of give

597
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: yourself compassion for the difficulty. So if you notice, if

598
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: you only focus what am I gonna do? And you know,

599
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: how am I going to deal with this? How am

600
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: I going to homeschool my kids? Or you know, how

601
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: am I going to get through this? Then you actually

602
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: aren't giving yourself the emotional support you need. So just

603
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: taking a moment to pause and just to say this

604
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: is really hard, this is really this, this sucks, this hurts.

605
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: I'm feeling prayed and feeling lonely, I'm feeling frustrated, whatever

606
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: it is, and then give yourself some emotional and this

607
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,959
Speaker 1: kind of the end, give yourself some emotional support, some warmth,

608
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: kind of validating your pain, acknowledging it right. So that's

609
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: kind of more of the end self than passion. And

610
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: then as you take action, you'll be able to take

611
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: wiser action, make wiser decisions from this kind of more balanced,

612
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: emotionally supported place. And so in terms of actual steps,

613
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, are you sending your kids to school or not?

614
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: Are you gonna be able to deal with it? I

615
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: think again that's just the wisdom elopment in terms of

616
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: each situation is going to be different. But sometimes parents

617
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: think that it's kind of selfish to be focusing on

618
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: giving yourself compassion. Again, your your kids are really stressed

619
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,479
Speaker 1: or worried. But what we know about the way empathy works,

620
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: we're designed by evolution to constantly be feeding off of

621
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: those emotions. So when other people around us, especially our kids,

622
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: are stressed or frustrated, we feel that inside our own body,

623
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: we feel stressed and frustrated. They also pick up on

624
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: our interurnal lines at we have mirror neurons or at

625
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: least part parts of the brain. This whole function it

626
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: is is to feel the emotions of others, and that's

627
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: partly the way that humans communicate, especially the first years

628
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: of life. So the more you can cultivate a warm, carrying,

629
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: kind of peaceful state of mind internally, or even if

630
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: you can't be peaceful, but at least be kind to

631
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: yourself because it's so chaotic inside, so you help other

632
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: people by helping yourself. And so, in other words, we

633
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: aren't we aren't separate. This idea that we're totally separate

634
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: individuals who don't influence each other, it's a complete fallacy, right,

635
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: it's not the way humans were evolved. Were evolved to

636
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: influence each other through our emotions. Who are interactions who

637
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 1: are social interactions, and so the way you treat yourself,

638
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, affects others, just as the way you treat

639
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: others affects yourself. We're all part of the same human family,

640
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: the same human system. And so if we leave ourselves

641
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: out of that system and we just focus on helping

642
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: others or just focus on problem solving and forget to

643
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: give ourselves the emotional support we need, and that's going

644
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: to be a hole in the system, right. I don't

645
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: know if you want a more concrete advice, I can't

646
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: really give concrete advice. Well, we know everybody's situation is different.

647
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: But I do think the idea of like the long

648
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: pause and like really talking to yourself about hard, how

649
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: hard this is, this is really hard, and just that

650
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: and just remember when you do that, you aren't saying

651
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: this pity. You aren't saying that you have it harder

652
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: than anyone else's all of us. You aren't alone, and

653
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: yet you know you're the only one who's inside your

654
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: own head. Don't forget to take a pa us and

655
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: too emotionally support yourself. And it's not just self care.

656
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: It's not like just taking bubble bass or going for

657
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: walks and doing exercise. Self care is great, you know,

658
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: but the way you relate to every single moment, especially

659
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: in every single moment, is suffering. It's really a mindset.

660
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: So you need to adopt the self compassionate mindset. So

661
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: as the frustration comes up, as your kids are screaming,

662
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: as you're trying to do your call right, as you

663
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: relate to that moment of frustration or overwhelm or anger

664
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, if you can do that with

665
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: a sense of kindness, warmth and support. And again it

666
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: may be tough love, you know, maybe like come on,

667
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: got hold it together right, Maybe kind of tough but

668
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: firm but warm and caring. That the more you'll be

669
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: able to cope and get through. I do know that much.

670
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: And the specific steps your opinion is because MND have

671
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: not that. I like that that that is very concrete,

672
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: though you didn't describe it that way. So we do

673
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: have a question from one of our Your Coach Collective

674
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: book club members. So the question is in the Sex

675
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: and Love chapter of your book, you talked about assessing

676
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: when your old patterns are asserting themselves and in the moment,

677
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: taking the time to give yourself self compassion and then

678
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: after doing so, fully accept your overreaction. What do you

679
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: recommend when you come out of your self assessment and

680
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 1: realize that it isn't an overreaction or an old pattern

681
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: asserting itself. What should you do if they've actually done

682
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: something wrong, like light or something similar to that. So

683
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: the book you read it was more focused on you

684
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: in self compassion, I hadn't really developed as much. My

685
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: new book is called Fear Self Compassion. Oh is it

686
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: out already? No? No, I'm okay. At that point, I

687
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: wasn't as much aware of kind of the need to

688
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: protect ourselves. So it sounds like when the person really

689
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 1: has lied, then that's the time you need fear self compassion.

690
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,479
Speaker 1: That's the time you need to stand up and say

691
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: that's not okay, that's not acceptable. Here's the thing. Sometimes,

692
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: for instance, we need to leave a relationship if it's

693
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: really not good for us. And it can be hard

694
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: to leave a relationship if we feel that we aren't

695
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 1: good enough, if we feel we need the other person

696
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: to complete us, you know, if we feel we need

697
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: the other person to be happy, and so that's why,

698
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, the more we're able to kind of fulfill

699
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: our own needs, especially our needs for a sense of

700
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: love and worthiness. The more we're also able to leave

701
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: a relationship where we're being mistreated, you know, or at

702
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: least stand up or at least take risks, So the

703
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: two really are connected. So sometimes, for instance, it's not

704
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: just you, it is the other person. I'm currently not

705
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: in a relationship because I had to leave shortly after

706
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: the book came out. Because I won't go into detail,

707
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: but I really needed to leave that relationship sadly. And

708
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: then I was in another relationship and I needed to

709
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: leave that relationship. And now I'm alone, and you know,

710
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: I would like to have a partner, but my practice

711
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: really is about how do I'd be fully happy about

712
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: being with someone, How do I not feel incomplete? How

713
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: can I really learn to be happy and fulfilled without

714
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: needing a man? I must say it, you know, it's

715
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: it's really amazing because my whole life I always kind

716
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: of imagine, well, of course, you have a man, and

717
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of that's I like having to

718
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: man and all this stuff. I'm so open to one.

719
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 1: It's not really you know, if one comes my way,

720
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: kind of good luck and COVID define a new man.

721
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: But it's like I'm really seeing how much of myself

722
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: I gave away, was willing to give away, like subtly,

723
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: not even seeing the small ways we kind of give

724
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: ourselves away. We kind of compromise, so that sometimes compromise

725
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: is good about you know something, But since we shouldn't

726
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 1: have to compromise who we really are in a relationship.

727
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: If for for me at this point anyway, it's not

728
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: worth it. I'm not going to do it again if

729
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: if I can't be my full true self, it'd rather

730
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: be alone. You know, I'm kind of at that point

731
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: in my life. So if someone's lying to you, you

732
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: need to confront them again. Wisdom has to play itself out.

733
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: But sometimes you just need to say I'm sorry. It's

734
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: not good enough. You know, it's not good enough for me.

735
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: I need to protect myself. I need to leave you.

736
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: And that's that happens. Yeah, so you we'll have to

737
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: be on the lookout for a book too to see you. Yeah. Yeah,

738
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: I write a lot about it. Yeah, so I I

739
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: go into a lot of my dirty laundries in book one,

740
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of dirty laundry and Brooke to

741
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: you ever't want to come off. Is it's just no

742
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: at all self help gurgle, who's got it all figured out? Right? Right?

743
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 1: We're all I have some passionate but right a work

744
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: in progress, like we all. Yeah. So something that we

745
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: loved is that there's so many exercises in your book,

746
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: Dr and NEF. I wonder if you can kind of

747
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: give us a closing in terms of what exercise you

748
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: feel like it's best for people who really want to

749
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: get started working on self compassion. There's a practice of

750
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: probably the most portable practice that you know is in

751
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: the Mindful Self Compassion program, which which we develop is

752
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: the self Compassion Break. In the book, I called it

753
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: the self Compassion mantra. We've renamed it the self Compassion

754
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: break to kind of give a sense of I when

755
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: you need a break and you just like you take

756
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: like a three minute time out to do this. It's

757
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 1: kind of a kind of the reset button on your computer,

758
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: you know, you just kind of press this button and reset.

759
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: And I've got a recording to this on my website.

760
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: If you just google self compassion, you'll find me. So

761
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: basically what you do is you just call in the

762
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: three components of self compassion intentionally. So the first one

763
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: is mindfulness. You just are mindful of the fact that

764
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: this is really hard, that you're in pain. And this

765
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 1: could be, you know, something that's happening, maybe because you're lonely,

766
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: because of social distancing, maybe because you're angry at yourself.

767
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: You know, whatever the pain is, you're just mindful of that,

768
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: you validate it. This really hurts. When you get in

769
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: touch with that, you open to the pain, and then

770
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: you remember common humanity. You remember that you aren't alone.

771
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: There's something odd or unusual about having these things happen.

772
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: This is part of the human experience. It's not just me,

773
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: that sense that it's out. It's just to me, like

774
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: as insult to injury. It's not just you. This is

775
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: what it means to be human. So you know, okay,

776
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: so this is normal, this is part of life. And

777
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: then the third one is bringing in the kindness. And

778
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: so you can bring in the kindness and I'm touched

779
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: can be a really important way to can make kindness.

780
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: You can put your hand on your heart, or your

781
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,720
Speaker 1: face or your stomach, just some some sort of warm touch.

782
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: Do remind yourself physically of your own presence. And then

783
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: in terms of language. You might just think, well, what

784
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 1: would I say to a really good friend they cared

785
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: about in this situation? You know what types of supportive

786
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: language when I use with a good friend, And then

787
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: you try that language out with yourself, right, and so

788
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: just bringing in the mindfulness, the common humanity and the

789
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: kindness and you can do it very very quickly, really

790
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: shift your ability to relate to what's happening with more

791
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: strength and also um, you know, more peace and it

792
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: makes easier to bear. And then sometimes the mindfulness is

793
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: this is not okay. The common humanity is I'm in

794
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 1: power because it's not just me, it's my brothers and sisters,

795
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: whoever you know who's also in this situation. And the

796
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: kindness maybe like fierce protective kindness, like I'm gonna do

797
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: what I can, but I need you to stand up

798
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: for myself and to say no more So it's not

799
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 1: always just like a soft acceptance. Sometimes it's like a

800
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: fierce um, fierce waves and taking relating to the situation.

801
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: So it can be either spending on what you need

802
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: in the moment. So what is the best way for

803
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 1: us to stay connected to you and your work? Dr

804
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: Netwhere can people find probably just my website, so self

805
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: compassion dot org can spell it anyway you'll find me.

806
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: You can take your own self compassion test. I've got videos,

807
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: I've got guided meditations, I've got tons of research if

808
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: you're in the research, have a lot of resources, and

809
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: there's also links to the center from Mindful Self Compassion

810
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: if you want to actually get training. We're doing all

811
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: our training online now, so it's much more accessible than

812
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: it used to be. And so we just added to

813
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: our board a woman named Sydney Spears. She's a professor

814
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 1: from Kentucky University, and she is offering affinity practice groups.

815
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: So that may be of interest so for people of color,

816
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: for instance, or people you know with it with non

817
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: heterosexual orientation or transgender. So it's in other words, that

818
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,959
Speaker 1: people can practice self compassion with members of their own

819
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: community and so they can discuss to talk about how

820
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 1: self compassion is relating to you know, this form of suffering,

821
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: this relevant and particular community. And so we are just

822
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: starting that up and we're so excited about it. Typically,

823
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: if you go to one of our regular workshops, it's

824
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: mainly white, middle aged one with graduate degrees. That's or

825
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: demographic are really working hard to change that. But and

826
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: so one of the ways if you want to look,

827
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: you know, practice the people who are more like yourself,

828
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: um is Sydney Spears is leading these affinity groups. So

829
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: that is a resource at the Center for Mindful Self

830
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: Compassion and so you can link to that from my website.

831
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 1: So we're really excited to see where that goes nice

832
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: and we will of course include all of that in

833
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 1: the show notes. We really appreciate your time and expertise today,

834
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: Dr Nef, thank you so much. You're welcome. Dr Joy,

835
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm so glad Dr Nef was able to

836
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: join us this week. Be sure to visit the show

837
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot Com slash Session

838
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: one sixty seven to connect with her and to check

839
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: out the resources on her website. Don't forget to share

840
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: your takeaways with us on social media using the hashtag

841
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: TBG in session, and please text two sisters in your

842
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: circle right now and encourage them to check out the

843
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: episode as well. If you're looking for a therapist in

844
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory

845
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot Com slash directory And

846
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: if you want to continue digging into this topic and

847
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: connect with some other sisters in your area. Come on

848
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 1: over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where

849
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: we take a deeper dive into the topics from the

850
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: podcast and just about everything else. You can join us

851
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C.

852
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: Don't forget that. If you're looking for a way to

853
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: end summer on a high note, Cricket Wireless has got

854
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Speaker 1: just the thing. Get four lines of unlimited data for

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Speaker 1: a hundred dollars a month. Cricket Core is required on

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Speaker 1: four lines. Data speed limited to three megabits for a second.

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Speaker 1: Cricket may slow data speeds when the network is busy.

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Speaker 1: Additional fees, usage and restrictions may apply. Thank y'all so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me again this week. I look forward

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Speaker 1: to continue in this conversation with you all real soon.

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Speaker 1: Take good care, but brest Wood Press s Wood