Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Jay Sheddy and I'm thrilled to announce
Speaker 1: my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can
Speaker 1: experience on purpose in person. Join me in a city
Speaker 1: near you for meaningful, insightful conversations with surprise guests. It
Speaker 1: could be a celebrity, top wellness expert, or a CEO
Speaker 1: or business leader. We'll dive into experiences designed to experience growth,
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Speaker 1: Head to Jaysheddy, dop me Forward Slash Tour and get
Speaker 1: yours today.
Speaker 2: I think it starts with don't just do know where
Speaker 2: you want to go. So if you know where you
Speaker 2: want to go, and this can be for your company,
Speaker 2: this can be for your personal goals. This can be
Speaker 2: for a hobby or an athletic goal you have, whatever
Speaker 2: it is, you have to define what that ends goal
Speaker 2: looks like so that you can work backwards. And I'm
Speaker 2: a huge believer in the rule of three for everything.
Speaker 2: I can't remember more than three things, Like everything is
Speaker 2: about threes. For me, it's not just about getting everything done,
Speaker 2: it's what are the three most important things that I'm
Speaker 2: going to get done that are going to be towards
Speaker 2: the goals that are going to get me there.
Speaker 3: The number one health and Wellness podcast.
Speaker 1: Jay Sheety Jay Sheddy See One Only j Shetty. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to listen,
Speaker 1: learn and grow. You know that on Purpose is the
Speaker 1: home of deep, profound, powerful conversations with humans who've lived
Speaker 1: extraordinary lives, achieved phenomenal things, but at the heart of it,
Speaker 1: have a deep purpose. They also have the ability to
Speaker 1: open their hearts, open their minds to share the true
Speaker 1: failures the lessons that they've had on their journey. Today's
Speaker 1: guest is someone that I'm so excited to introduce to you.
Speaker 1: She's had truly a breathtaking journey and it's one that's
Speaker 1: going to inspire you and help you learn how you
Speaker 1: too can build an amazing business, understand what it feels
Speaker 1: like to manage and balance family life through it all,
Speaker 1: and at the same time go and pursue more even
Speaker 1: after success. I'm speaking about the one and only Sonira Madani,
Speaker 1: a true trailblazer in business world. Snira is the CEO
Speaker 1: and co founder of fintech startup worth Ai Sonira previously
Speaker 1: founded Stax Payments, where she took an idea and built
Speaker 1: it first into the private startup with one hundred and
Speaker 1: forty million dollars in recurring revenue, and then into a
Speaker 1: business valued at over a billion dollars. Scenira is also
Speaker 1: the founder of the CEO School podcast and the founder
Speaker 1: of the CEO School Company. If you haven't subscribed, make
Speaker 1: sure you do, because both of them empower women to
Speaker 1: scale their businesses and change the landscape of the traditional
Speaker 1: business world. Snira is the daughter of Kistani immigrants and
Speaker 1: the first person in our family to attend college as well.
Speaker 1: Please welcome to the show, Snira Madani Sanira. It is
Speaker 1: such a joy to have you here. Your journey is
Speaker 1: truly remarkable, and I'm so glad that we get to
Speaker 1: share it here with the on Purpose community.
Speaker 3: Jay, thank you so much for having me. I'm so
Speaker 3: grateful to be here.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to just carry this amazing conversation that
Speaker 2: we've already been having.
Speaker 3: We're like, turn the cameras on. It's time.
Speaker 1: I know I felt like, I was like, we're probably
Speaker 1: gonna have to put some of that in, but I
Speaker 1: want to start with this and it's probably nothing through
Speaker 1: when I said, we were just about to talk about
Speaker 1: but you are a self proclaimed highly caffeinated time hacker,
Speaker 1: and I was like, my team and everyone's like, we
Speaker 1: want to be that. Tell us what that means.
Speaker 2: Oh, I've gotten so much more calm in the last
Speaker 2: several years, but I'm definitely highly caffeinated, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: I think productivity is something I've naturally just had to
Speaker 2: get better at as a CEO and especially as a
Speaker 2: working mother. I have an eight year old daughter and
Speaker 2: a five year old daughter. I've been building companies since
Speaker 2: I was twenty five years old and had kids along
Speaker 2: the way, and so honestly, time is our most precious commodity,
Speaker 2: and especially when you're a busy mom running business, you
Speaker 2: have to be really mindful of that.
Speaker 3: And so I feel like I've found.
Speaker 2: Every which way to time hack, and I do think
Speaker 2: that I've I'm a productivity expert for sure.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we're going to need all of those toos
Speaker 1: today for sure. I think there's a lot of our
Speaker 1: audience that really wants to know how to use their
Speaker 1: time more wisely, understand how to be more productive and effective.
Speaker 1: But I want to start off, but actually, let's just
Speaker 1: dive into that. Let's talk about that, like, what did
Speaker 1: you used to believe time management was, and now, having
Speaker 1: been so effective for this many years, what have you
Speaker 1: now come to the conclusion that what time management actually is.
Speaker 2: Freedom of dollar is what we all start to chase, right,
Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with wanting financial success for yourself or your family. And
Speaker 2: so freedom of dollar is something that when I started
Speaker 2: my journey, that was one component of building the business,
Speaker 2: but really it became about freedom of time. Even if
Speaker 2: you have that level of success with freedom of dollar,
Speaker 2: we still all have the same amount of time. And
Speaker 2: so it really is about that freedom of time and
Speaker 2: being able to enjoy the journey along the way.
Speaker 3: I want to be able to do.
Speaker 2: What I call thee thousand dollars tasks, not the ten
Speaker 2: dollars task. And for me, a thousand dollars task is
Speaker 2: when I get home, I want to cope with my family.
Speaker 2: Can I outsource that? Absolutely, But that to me is
Speaker 2: not a thousand dollars task. That's a ten that's a
Speaker 2: ten dollars task for some others, but for me, spending
Speaker 2: time with my family is like the number one most
Speaker 2: important place where I'm trying to keep my time freedom.
Speaker 2: It's really really important that I think about tasks in
Speaker 2: that way. It's something I really encourage. I mentor so
Speaker 2: many women in business, and we have a lot of responsibility,
Speaker 2: Like there is this extra layer of responsibility I'm not saying.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have such an incredible partner, such an
Speaker 2: incredible husband, and we coparent, we do all the things.
Speaker 2: But as a working mom, there's just that extra layer
Speaker 2: of a million things that have to get done. As
Speaker 2: a CEO, everyone wants a piece of your time. How
Speaker 2: you spend your time is it's everything, and so really
Speaker 2: thinking about what are your one thousand dollars task and
Speaker 2: just focusing on those and everything else finding a way
Speaker 2: to either delegate it or delete it.
Speaker 3: Do you even like actually have to do it. I
Speaker 3: have this process of like do delegate delete So every
Speaker 3: couple of weeks, I'll do a time audit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do a time audit because your seasons are changing,
Speaker 2: like what you're doing right now, travels, insane, whatever else it.
Speaker 3: Does do a time audits.
Speaker 2: We do a time audit and I take a look
Speaker 2: at how am I actually spending my time?
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: And I'm intentional about my time? How do I want
Speaker 2: to spend my time? And so if I see, you know,
Speaker 2: certain habits and certain things and I'm like, okay, no,
Speaker 2: this has to come off our plate. This can be
Speaker 2: delegated off am I spending too much time in one area?
Speaker 2: This can apply to anyone at any point. Is to
Speaker 2: do a time audit and to take control back of it.
Speaker 2: And it's also important, I think when you.
Speaker 3: Ask the question of like how do I view time now?
Speaker 2: I used to have this mantra that I used to
Speaker 2: say every day because things are so crazy, busy and
Speaker 2: running two companies, the podcast, the kids, all the stuff.
Speaker 2: Every morning I'd wake up Jay and I'd say, I
Speaker 2: have all the time in the world.
Speaker 3: I have all the time in the world. I have
Speaker 3: all the time in the world.
Speaker 2: But I didn't and I didn't believe it inside because
Speaker 2: I didn't have all the time in the world. And
Speaker 2: now a lot has shifted where I actually do believe
Speaker 2: I have all the time in the world. And that
Speaker 2: just comes with presence that just means that wherever I'm
Speaker 2: going to be, And I learned how to be really
Speaker 2: present in everything that I was in, I was in
Speaker 2: with such intention.
Speaker 3: That I did have all the time in the world.
Speaker 2: I think that those are some ways that have really
Speaker 2: shifted my perspective about time. But I do think it's
Speaker 2: the most important commodity that we have. It's the biggest
Speaker 2: gift that you can give yourself to everyone around you.
Speaker 2: And I think the world is changing so fast. We're
Speaker 2: such an on demand everything.
Speaker 3: Everything is so speedy, everything coming at us.
Speaker 2: From social media to life to work. Everyone's life.
Speaker 3: It's not a CEO's life that's busy.
Speaker 2: Every single person that's probably listening feels exactly that feeling.
Speaker 2: It's so busy, but is it Is it busy or
Speaker 2: is it full?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And that's the shift.
Speaker 2: I was busy before, and I learned how to make
Speaker 2: my life going from busy to intentionally full with purpose.
Speaker 1: When you're coming up with criteria for do delegate delete,
Speaker 1: how do you decide? Because I find that often, especially
Speaker 1: in the beginning, and I'm sure it's the same for you,
Speaker 1: and we'll get to that in a second. But there's
Speaker 1: a feeling like I have to do everything, and I
Speaker 1: probably have to because I can't afford to delegate. You
Speaker 1: may not have a team in the beginning, so when
Speaker 1: you start growing or when you start building, how do
Speaker 1: you find the ability to decide, Okay, this is what
Speaker 1: I'm still going to do, this is what I delegate,
Speaker 1: and this is what I delete. Because often founders and
Speaker 1: start up owners or anyone will say to me, I
Speaker 1: think everything's important. Yeah, how do I decide what's important
Speaker 1: to do with my time?
Speaker 2: It's one understanding where you want to go. So I
Speaker 2: think it starts with don't just do know where you
Speaker 2: want to go. So if you know where you want
Speaker 2: to go, and this can be for your company, this
Speaker 2: can be for your personal goals. This can be for
Speaker 2: a hobby or an athletic goal you have, whatever it is,
Speaker 2: you have to define what that end goal looks like
Speaker 2: so that you can work backwards. And I think that
Speaker 2: is an important part of even in business, especially as startups.
Speaker 2: You want to do all the things, but you just can't.
Speaker 2: So it's really deciding what are the three things.
Speaker 3: And I'm a huge.
Speaker 2: Believer in this, in the rule of three for everything.
Speaker 2: I can't remember more than three things like everything is
Speaker 2: about threes for me, and so it's three goals for
Speaker 2: let's say it's for the quarter, for the year, how
Speaker 2: do we work backwards that that's the goal?
Speaker 3: And then everything else is a delete, it's a no.
Speaker 2: And every day I look and I plan my needle
Speaker 2: movers is like in business is you know, a very
Speaker 2: common term, but it's not just about getting everything done.
Speaker 2: It's what are the three most important things that I'm
Speaker 2: going to get done that are going to be towards
Speaker 2: the goals that are going to get me there. And
Speaker 2: so you have to start getting really comfortable with saying no.
Speaker 2: You have to start getting comfortable with you not being
Speaker 2: the one to do it.
Speaker 3: And even if you don't have a team, even if
Speaker 3: you don't have the resources, it starts with you.
Speaker 2: Right, you are the core nucleus of your company, of
Speaker 2: your life, of the things that DNA then breeds into
Speaker 2: the next your first hire that you're going to do
Speaker 2: and the next hire that you're going to do. And
Speaker 2: the job of a CEO is helping everyone prioritize, like
Speaker 2: that's my job every day.
Speaker 3: My job is not to do the rowing.
Speaker 2: So I think about you know, in rowing club or
Speaker 2: like the coxin this at the front of the boat,
Speaker 2: his or her job is not actually to row, it's
Speaker 2: to give direction, to cheer everyone on, to make sure
Speaker 2: that we're going in the right direction. He or she's
Speaker 2: not actually the one rowing, and so your job is
Speaker 2: just to keep everyone rowing in the same direction and prioritizing.
Speaker 2: And that's probably the hardest job as well, is what
Speaker 2: is prior toy what you asked. But if you don't
Speaker 2: know it, and if you're not in line with it,
Speaker 2: then your team's not going to be in line with it,
Speaker 2: your life is not going to be in line with it.
Speaker 2: And this is something that I've realized that falls into
Speaker 2: like the CEO part and the life part, always both
Speaker 2: it's the same.
Speaker 1: The thing that really hit me because I've been thinking
Speaker 1: a lot about this is the needle moving part. Because
Speaker 1: often what we think of delegation or roles as we
Speaker 1: also think, oh, someone with else will take care of
Speaker 1: all the little stuff out of the big stuff, and
Speaker 1: actually you're then deprioritizing that person because you also want
Speaker 1: them to be doing needle moving things and you may
Speaker 1: be doing bigger, larger, more long term needle moving things,
Speaker 1: but you don't want to be like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: hand off all the little things to someone else to
Speaker 1: deal with, because those little things may actually become a
Speaker 1: distraction to you and that individual. So anyway, I want
Speaker 1: to go back to when you start thinking about building
Speaker 1: this billion dollar empire, and did you know the day
Speaker 1: you started stacks that you wanted it to be a
Speaker 1: billion dollar business.
Speaker 2: I didn't know I could go build a million dollar business,
Speaker 2: let alone a billion dollar one.
Speaker 1: I love hearing that that's great.
Speaker 3: I had no idea.
Speaker 2: I was twenty six years old, no money in my
Speaker 2: bank account. I was working for a financial services company.
Speaker 3: I was the first person in my family to graduate college.
Speaker 2: I grew up in the most incredible, incredible household. I
Speaker 2: was getting my MBA without even knowing it. So my
Speaker 2: parents were immigrants. They came from Karachi, Pakistan. I was
Speaker 2: born in Chicago, so I was first generation here.
Speaker 3: We moved to Texas.
Speaker 2: I went to ten different schools in twelve years, which
Speaker 2: is an insane part of my story, but it was
Speaker 2: the pursuit of the American dream, and for my parents,
Speaker 2: it was about allowing us an opportunity to be anything
Speaker 2: we wanted to be, to get an education that is
Speaker 2: one hundred percent every Indian, you know, Pakistani culture, Like
Speaker 2: education is so important. So I was a really great student.
Speaker 2: I'm the firstborn, eldest daughter, all the things. And I
Speaker 2: loved my childhood like I loved you know. See, my
Speaker 2: parents work really hard. Everything was perfect, but we had
Speaker 2: the best family values. Like I was surrounded by so
Speaker 2: much confidence around me. My dad would wake me and
Speaker 2: my brother up every morning, and he was this like
Speaker 2: loud energy, like four in the morning wake up kind
Speaker 2: of guy. Every morning he'd wake us up and he'd say, Sonny,
Speaker 2: that's my nickname. He'd say, you have it, Like that
Speaker 2: is what I grew up around every single day, somebody
Speaker 2: telling you that you have it, and it was the
Speaker 2: most annoying thing. They're just our biggest champions, my brothers
Speaker 2: and nice biggest champions, and so you carry that level
Speaker 2: of like responsibility, you want to succeed, you want to
Speaker 2: do well. And growing up in also a Muslim household,
Speaker 2: like I didn't feel at all like my my gender,
Speaker 2: Like I was just the eldest kid, and so that
Speaker 2: meant that I got I got to do everything first.
Speaker 2: Like I never felt my gender until I went into
Speaker 2: the workforce wow, not even in college. In college, like
Speaker 2: you know, I went to I went to University of Florida.
Speaker 2: We had like three champions in my four years of college.
Speaker 3: I studied abroad, I did all of these amazing cool things.
Speaker 2: And then I get into the workforce and I saw
Speaker 2: that there were no women in any of the companies
Speaker 2: that I worked for. I worked for three different companies,
Speaker 2: and the only women that I saw working in the
Speaker 2: organizations were in either customer support or in admin roles.
Speaker 3: There was nobody in technology.
Speaker 2: There was nobody in anything else besides supporting roles. And
Speaker 2: that was the first time that I was like, I'm different.
Speaker 2: For the first time, I noticed my difference, and I
Speaker 2: think it was that confidence. I never had that negative
Speaker 2: self talk, and the self talk actually started to get
Speaker 2: created at that point in my early twenties, but I
Speaker 2: never had that going into it, and so I feel
Speaker 2: super grateful, And I think that's how I try to
Speaker 2: parent as well, is you can't overlove a kid like
Speaker 2: That's where the confidence comes from, especially for young girls
Speaker 2: because in a world like today, no one is telling them,
Speaker 2: and then their negative self talk because of how the
Speaker 2: world looks, because of the inequities that are plainly there.
Speaker 2: We start to form those conversations in our own head.
Speaker 2: And so I'm so grateful that I had super cheerleaders
Speaker 2: and I didn't even know that I was rolling my
Speaker 2: eyes at that really carried me through where I was like, no,
Speaker 2: I am different and I do have it and I
Speaker 2: can see things differently. So I was that bad employee.
Speaker 2: I would challenge the status quo. And then I had
Speaker 2: this really amazing idea to go start a subscription based
Speaker 2: processing system. And I took it back to my mail
Speaker 2: bosses and I was pretty much laughed out of the room,
Speaker 2: like it was, you know, a little girl, great ideas,
Speaker 2: but this is not going to work. And so I
Speaker 2: came back home and I flew back from Houston to
Speaker 2: with family dinners. That was always something we always were
Speaker 2: around food and family. And my dad looks to me,
Speaker 2: and you know, I was so disappointed in how the
Speaker 2: conversation went, and he said, Sonny, he goes, why don't
Speaker 2: you just go start the company?
Speaker 3: And I said, Dad, where do I go find visa?
Speaker 3: How twenty five?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Where do I go build a fintech? I don't have
Speaker 3: I don't know And he said, you'll figure it.
Speaker 2: Out, and so that's exactly what I did, and I
Speaker 2: moved back into my parents' house and he was like,
Speaker 2: and if you don't in six.
Speaker 3: Months, you'll get your MBA.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: That was it. That was It was as easy as that.
Speaker 1: Amazing. I want to unpack so many things, so now
Speaker 1: you've given me enough stuff to just grapple with. I
Speaker 1: loved what you said about the idea that you can't
Speaker 1: overlove someone like That's beautiful to hear. And I always
Speaker 1: feel that my mom's love was like that for me.
Speaker 1: I always grew up believing I was lovable. My mom's
Speaker 1: love shielded me from so much of the other pain
Speaker 1: and stress and everything else I saw happening around me.
Speaker 1: And a lot of what you just said about women
Speaker 1: I see to be so true today because I've seen
Speaker 1: research and studies that show that if a man sees
Speaker 1: a job specification and can do less than half of it,
Speaker 1: he'll still apply. And if a woman sees some and
Speaker 1: even if she can do eighty percent of it, she
Speaker 1: won't apply because she can't do the twenty percent remaining.
Speaker 1: And so even when I talk to my male friends
Speaker 1: today and I know a lot of their wives and
Speaker 1: partners and girlfriends and whatever else it may be. They
Speaker 1: all find that so many women are scared to go
Speaker 1: out there and start a company. They're scared to take
Speaker 1: that risk. They're fearful that they can't, or they're waiting
Speaker 1: till they have everything, like all their ducks in a row,
Speaker 1: before they give themselves an opportunity. How did early on
Speaker 1: in your life your dad saying this repetitive statement to you,
Speaker 1: How did that not become a pressure and how did
Speaker 1: it feel empowering? Because I feel that sometimes if you're
Speaker 1: told you've got it, you can do this, a lot
Speaker 1: of people see that as pressure and then they feel
Speaker 1: they can't live up to it. What was different about
Speaker 1: the parenting aspect of that, because I think a lot
Speaker 1: of parents listening may take a lot from what your
Speaker 1: dad did.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: I was always brought in on all the conversations. I
Speaker 2: think something that my parents did. We had struggles, and
Speaker 2: we had challenges, and we had to move and we
Speaker 2: had to various business, but we were always at the
Speaker 2: dinner table having the hard conversations. You know, if there
Speaker 2: were hard things that were you know, taking place about
Speaker 2: money or about business or about family, we were solving
Speaker 2: problems together so my parents would always ask our perspective.
Speaker 2: That is something that I do feel is very interesting
Speaker 2: just as a child. I try to do that with
Speaker 2: my daughters at the dinner table now, is to ask them,
Speaker 2: like what they think so thinking about solutions versus you know,
Speaker 2: how they would think about solving it. So I feel
Speaker 2: like I was really involved in hearing my voice felt heard,
Speaker 2: and I think that's important because as women, I do
Speaker 2: feel like we're you know, our voice isn't heard. And
Speaker 2: so I grew up in a place where my voice
Speaker 2: was not just heard, it was really valued and my
Speaker 2: perspective was valued. And just like so many memories that
Speaker 2: I can think of, I had such an amazing, amazing
Speaker 2: childhood and I know a lot of people don't have that.
Speaker 2: On my seventeenth birthday, this is really crazy. So we
Speaker 2: went to Atlantic City for a Bollywood concert. It was
Speaker 2: like a Charlotte Cohn concert then when they would come
Speaker 2: out and do the shows. We went to Atlantic City
Speaker 2: for this concert and you know, there was a casino.
Speaker 3: I'm not even of legal age to great gamble.
Speaker 2: And my dad takes me to the blackjack table, okay,
Speaker 2: and he was an avid like he definitely had not
Speaker 2: the best habits as well, and it's important to see,
Speaker 2: like you can see both sides if your parents things
Speaker 2: weren't perfect. I look back and I think about mostly
Speaker 2: the positive. But sitting at this blackjack table, so I'm
Speaker 2: all dressed up to go to this concert, I'm sitting
Speaker 2: next to him.
Speaker 3: My parents were also really young.
Speaker 2: They had me when they were like twenty and so
Speaker 2: people are probably assuming I'm like his girlfriend or something,
Speaker 2: and you know, but I'm sitting at the blackjack table
Speaker 2: next to him, and he hands me a pile of
Speaker 2: chips and he's like that, and in my head, I'm like,
Speaker 2: how much is this?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Am I going to lose the money? You know?
Speaker 2: What's the value? And his response he goes, just feel it.
Speaker 2: He's like, if you feel like you're gonna win that more,
Speaker 2: if you feel like you're not going to win, pull
Speaker 2: back My ability to now take risks and listen to
Speaker 2: my gut and not wor about you know, like scared
Speaker 2: money doesn't make money as well, right, so my ability
Speaker 2: to be able to say, Okay, I feel.
Speaker 3: Like I'm gonna win. I feel like.
Speaker 2: Look at looking at the hands or learning blackjack, and
Speaker 2: I was great at math and I can get this
Speaker 2: concept that was one of my like a core memory
Speaker 2: that I can think of. But I was always involved
Speaker 2: in the conversation. I feel like it was more tactical
Speaker 2: with action, not just.
Speaker 3: Being told that you should go do this. I definitely
Speaker 3: feel very blessed that I did have that. And now
Speaker 3: my mom lives literally across the street from me.
Speaker 2: She's like one rock away, and we get to she
Speaker 2: gets to raise my kids with me.
Speaker 3: So it's wonderful.
Speaker 1: It's amazing when you when you go from pitching your
Speaker 1: idea to all of your bosses and they kind of
Speaker 1: look at you like, this is going to fail, this
Speaker 1: isn't going to work, and then obviously your dad gives
Speaker 1: you that encouraging statement. You said that you moved back home.
Speaker 1: Then yeah, so I'm imagining that you were making a
Speaker 1: decent amount of money working at a financial services firm,
Speaker 1: and when you choose to start a company, I'm guessing
Speaker 1: you took a massive pay here and I assume you
Speaker 1: were living out and then you move back home. Now,
Speaker 1: the reason why I'm pinpointing that moment is because I
Speaker 1: think those golden handcuffs that so many of us tie
Speaker 1: around ourselves with the safe corporate job. And when you've
Speaker 1: got a great degree and you finally get that job
Speaker 1: you've been waiting to get for like eighteen years of
Speaker 1: your life and everyone respects you for it, it looks
Speaker 1: good on your LinkedIn and your resume. I found so
Speaker 1: many people struggle at that point to say, well, I'm
Speaker 1: willing to take less money, I'm willing to downgrade my lifestyle.
Speaker 1: I'm willing to postpone and delay the gratification of having
Speaker 1: nice things because chances are if I live with my
Speaker 1: parents and I'm not making the money anymore, life changes.
Speaker 1: Walk me through deeply that decision, because I think for
Speaker 1: so many of our community listening and so many people
Speaker 1: that I mentor coach speak to, this seems to be
Speaker 1: one of the most pivotal moments of their life. That
Speaker 1: were you willing to go two steps backwards in order
Speaker 1: to go five steps forward? And so many of us
Speaker 1: are so scared to go two steps backwards because we've
Speaker 1: got so used to a certain level of lifestyle. So
Speaker 1: walk us through that key decision point.
Speaker 3: I actually ask myself would I do it again?
Speaker 2: And I think that it also depends on It's the
Speaker 2: risk taking ability, right, It.
Speaker 3: Takes courage to take risk.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite, most favorite books that I've recently
Speaker 2: read is Die with Zero.
Speaker 3: It is such an incredible book. It's this crazy concept
Speaker 3: of just.
Speaker 2: Taking risks and you have your golden years of your life,
Speaker 2: like we should be spending our money doing our things
Speaker 2: in our prime and.
Speaker 3: That makes complete sense.
Speaker 2: And the risk tolerance that you can take also changes
Speaker 2: with your age. Would I take these risks if I
Speaker 2: had two daughters at home and maybe if I was
Speaker 2: a sole breadwinner or where I don't know, And so
Speaker 2: I can look back and say I.
Speaker 3: Didn't have much to lose, and it was a level
Speaker 3: of risk.
Speaker 2: I had a steady job, I was on a career
Speaker 2: path I could have totally miserably failed. I think you
Speaker 2: have to think about not what is the risk in
Speaker 2: doing it? I think you have to think about what
Speaker 2: is the risk in not doing it right? So what
Speaker 2: is a risk if you don't do the thing? And
Speaker 2: that's kind of how I try to make those the
Speaker 2: risky decisions today. And I know we're going to talk
Speaker 2: more and this journey is going to come full circle
Speaker 2: in ten years. I left my company at the most
Speaker 2: record high of the company, but the risk of me
Speaker 2: staying was a detriment to my health and my burnout
Speaker 2: and all the things that I had left to go accomplish.
Speaker 3: And so it's really about the risk of not doing
Speaker 3: the action.
Speaker 2: But at that time I think it was I was
Speaker 2: young and I could and you do have to take
Speaker 2: a step back, and I would say, I think social
Speaker 2: media does a horrible job of showing us success. There's
Speaker 2: so much saturation of success. There's not enough failures that
Speaker 2: are being shown.
Speaker 3: It's not enough.
Speaker 2: It is hard to build a business. You know, less
Speaker 2: than two percent of female founders ever even break a
Speaker 2: million in revenue.
Speaker 3: That is the most insane statistic.
Speaker 2: Men are eight times more likely to achieve that venture capital, Right,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go build a fintech less than Currently
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, less than three percent of capital goes
Speaker 2: to women founders, less than one percent, it's in the
Speaker 2: decimals goes to minority founders.
Speaker 3: What was I even thinking trying to go.
Speaker 2: Raise capital out of Orlando, Florida, not even Silicon Valley, Right,
Speaker 2: And so I think there's a naivete when you're young,
Speaker 2: and I think it's beautiful.
Speaker 3: I think that it's the most amazing thing.
Speaker 2: Like I even think about parenting, like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: Now if I knew all the.
Speaker 3: Things that I knew right when we were young and
Speaker 3: doing the things.
Speaker 2: I think that having a little bit of not knowing
Speaker 2: what's on the other side is actually really beautiful too,
Speaker 2: Like embrace that now that I know I'm building second
Speaker 2: time again and I'm building from experience, which means I
Speaker 2: can catapult faster and do things differently, but.
Speaker 3: I also know what's ahead.
Speaker 2: I loved when I didn't know what was coming, so
Speaker 2: I didn't know that I could go build that million
Speaker 2: dollar business, and all I did was focus on putting
Speaker 2: one step, one foot in front of the other.
Speaker 3: Every day I showed.
Speaker 2: Up for a job, I always say this, that was
Speaker 2: harder than the one I had yesterday. Every day I
Speaker 2: had a job that was hard because the company was growing,
Speaker 2: something else was happening. That's a pretty cool place to
Speaker 2: be in from a young growth perspective. So if you
Speaker 2: enjoy that, then entrepreneurship is for you, because it doesn't
Speaker 2: get easier.
Speaker 3: You get better, but it doesn't get easier.
Speaker 1: I actually think what you said makes a lot of
Speaker 1: sense that at that time there was a sense of
Speaker 1: you didn't have the pressure of the success story that
Speaker 1: social media puts around you, and so now it's like
Speaker 1: everyone thinks to themselves, I have to build a million dollar,
Speaker 1: billion dollar business, And as soon as you say that,
Speaker 1: it's so hard because it's such a long journey to
Speaker 1: get there, that it's such an overwhelming mountain and it's
Speaker 1: almost like you're standing at the base of a mountain
Speaker 1: and it looks so high and you're just like, how
Speaker 1: am I ever going to get to the top. And
Speaker 1: I remember the same like when we launched our podcast.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a number of downloads I was trying
Speaker 1: to reach, or I didn't have a number of followers
Speaker 1: that I was like, oh, this would be success. It
Speaker 1: was like, this is what I love, this is the
Speaker 1: stories I want to tell, this is how we want
Speaker 1: to serve our community, this is the experience we want
Speaker 1: to build. And that's how we started. And then of
Speaker 1: course everything got more strategic because we developed and we
Speaker 1: learned more and everything. But I didn't have that pressure
Speaker 1: on day one, and I think if I did, I
Speaker 1: may never have put out a video and it would
Speaker 1: never have put out a piece of content because it
Speaker 1: was going to be years or months or days until
Speaker 1: you actually reached this false goal you set yourself. So
Speaker 1: when you're starting out, how do you set goals that
Speaker 1: are empowering and not deabilitating Because I see a lot
Speaker 1: of founders setting very deabilitating goals.
Speaker 2: I think the goals have to be in line with
Speaker 2: why are you doing what you're doing. I think that
Speaker 2: the numerical success will come from it. But if that's
Speaker 2: what defining as your goals up front, you're not gonna
Speaker 2: like that's that's where the mountain gets really high, versus
Speaker 2: if you're really just showing up to go serve the
Speaker 2: five audience members that you were like, Hey, I just
Speaker 2: want to do this podcast, and I just whoever listens
Speaker 2: listens like this is what I want to do. When
Speaker 2: I first started the business, I knew that there was
Speaker 2: a gap in what I was what we were doing.
Speaker 2: I literally sold the first one hundred customers out of
Speaker 2: the trunk of my car. This is when like payment
Speaker 2: terminals were like a real thing, and I would carry
Speaker 2: them in that my car. I'd go around shopping plazas.
Speaker 2: It was just a completely different wry. I had to
Speaker 2: go meet my customers where they were at and every day.
Speaker 2: My goal was I just want one person to say.
Speaker 3: Yes, that was it.
Speaker 1: That's a great goal, that's it.
Speaker 2: And so if and I knew what I wanted to
Speaker 2: serve small business, I had such a passion. I knew
Speaker 2: what I could help them with. And so it's really
Speaker 2: important to stay focused on that. And it's hard, Like
Speaker 2: I really that empathy comes from a place because I
Speaker 2: find myself in that now, because I think social media
Speaker 2: makes it really really difficult. We see living in this
Speaker 2: comparison culture living in it's hard not to when you
Speaker 2: see and it's nice.
Speaker 3: It's also nice to see success because you're like, hey,
Speaker 3: that's possible for me. There's an amazing truth in that.
Speaker 2: And you should have I have my I make my
Speaker 2: vision board every year, right, and if I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: have big visions and big goals, like I do believe
Speaker 2: in the power of dreaming big, but you have to
Speaker 2: stay rooted in showing up for that one person or
Speaker 2: that one customer and building your product and solutions set
Speaker 2: to really serve. I think that that's where most of
Speaker 2: the most successful companies come from.
Speaker 3: And that's why I love women in business, like.
Speaker 2: I love love meeting and I get an opportunity with
Speaker 2: everything that I do with a podcast and CEO school
Speaker 2: to just.
Speaker 3: Meet and mentor so many women.
Speaker 2: I never meet a woman who's just started the business
Speaker 2: or a business for the sake of it. Every woman
Speaker 2: I meet is building a business because somebody wasn't solving
Speaker 2: something for their kids' school, somebody wasn't solving something for
Speaker 2: their industry. There is a technology that they see this
Speaker 2: world in a different way that no one's solving for.
Speaker 2: There's a greater purpose, and she's the last one. She's
Speaker 2: so exhausted from nobody solving it. She's like, screw it,
Speaker 2: I gotta do it.
Speaker 3: I got to do it.
Speaker 2: And that's literally how women are starting businesses. We're not
Speaker 2: first to raise our hands to say, oh yeah, entrepreneurship.
Speaker 3: Is where we're at.
Speaker 2: We're solving real problems because we really care. And I
Speaker 2: think that's the the empathetic.
Speaker 3: Part, the nurturing part, the problem solving part of.
Speaker 2: Women, and women actually end up becoming the most successful
Speaker 2: investments for a venture capitalists. Women actually end up becoming
Speaker 2: the most incredible leaders in organizations. I do think that
Speaker 2: the world would look very, very different in the environment
Speaker 2: that we are in today.
Speaker 3: If we had more women at the top across the
Speaker 3: world on a global standpoint.
Speaker 2: So it is important because women build with purpose, and
Speaker 2: I think that that's what you have to You have
Speaker 2: to stay grounded and it's nothing's going to take you there.
Speaker 2: Because when you talk about those goals, Jay, as soon
Speaker 2: as you start to reach, if it's just the goal,
Speaker 2: before you even get to the goal, you're raising the
Speaker 2: goal again. Before you get to the next goal, you're
Speaker 2: raising that goal again. You have to check yourself in that.
Speaker 2: And I fell into that trap. So once we started
Speaker 2: to get the success and we started to grow the business.
Speaker 2: Our first year we did five million in payments through
Speaker 2: our ecosystem. Within year five we did five billion. It
Speaker 2: was real, it was hard, it was fast. We were scaling,
Speaker 2: we were growing. And then I just became a product
Speaker 2: of living in this fintech boys club and defining success
Speaker 2: on everyone else's terms, and I stopped checking in with
Speaker 2: what I actually want. I stopped checking in with what
Speaker 2: my customers really wanted. I stopped checking in. I was
Speaker 2: just building because now there was this playbook, of this
Speaker 2: tech playbook. This is how we have this is Series
Speaker 2: A B C. Here's what's next. Here's how it's all
Speaker 2: about value. It's all about this, It's about acquisitions, and
Speaker 2: I definitely have a lot of lessons from building in
Speaker 2: that way that I had to really check myself when
Speaker 2: we reach the top.
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Speaker 1: make sure you use the code on purpose. The statistics
Speaker 1: you mentioned a couple of moments ago about the number
Speaker 1: of female founders funding going to female founders, those are
Speaker 1: so alarming and they're not even close to being good now,
Speaker 1: Like they're so far behind. What was some of the
Speaker 1: blocks and the barriers you saw for women that you
Speaker 1: had to learn to navigate and how would you encourage
Speaker 1: women are in that space right now, because it can
Speaker 1: get so easy to get discouraged, it's so easy to
Speaker 1: become bitter, it's so easy to become completely disempowered. And
Speaker 1: by the way, all of that would be extremely valid
Speaker 1: based on the statistics you just shared. What did you
Speaker 1: learn that if you were like, here are three lessons masterclasses,
Speaker 1: moments of navigation that I learned that helped me play
Speaker 1: the game and figure it out as opposed to give
Speaker 1: up on the game and quit because it was too hard.
Speaker 1: What would you say with the biggest three things that
Speaker 1: you were Like, these three things taught me how to
Speaker 1: play the game, and I had to learn to navigate
Speaker 1: these in order to win in this world.
Speaker 2: I would say the first thing is to build your network.
Speaker 2: Like that is the number one thing. I think what
Speaker 2: has made the Boys Club so successful is they do
Speaker 2: business on the golf courses and through relationships and through
Speaker 2: this college. And they went to this school, and there
Speaker 2: is a network. There is a Boys Club network. We
Speaker 2: haven't had an opportunity to build a network. We've only
Speaker 2: been in the workforce, you know since the nineteen forties, fifties,
Speaker 2: since post World War, Like, the business world has not
Speaker 2: been designed for women in mind, and so it is
Speaker 2: important to to start building that network immediately.
Speaker 3: And so get out of the screen, get into the room.
Speaker 2: So that's like the number one first piece of advice
Speaker 2: that I have for every woman building everywhere is build
Speaker 2: your network. And the Boys Club isn't bad, right, and
Speaker 2: so find the right supporters find the right allies. And
Speaker 2: so I had the most incredibly two male co founders,
Speaker 2: my brother and my other brother, and so we built alongside.
Speaker 2: And I had the most amazing mentors, male mentors that
Speaker 2: had been there, done that. And so I do think
Speaker 2: that you have to find the right men around you
Speaker 2: for support as well.
Speaker 3: So seek allies and ask for help, because the world
Speaker 3: isn't one or the other. People do want to help.
Speaker 2: And I think as women, this goes back to, like
Speaker 2: the number two is that we carry all of the burden.
Speaker 2: We carry all of this extra mental pressure. We carry
Speaker 2: all of this self talk, the doubt and again all valid.
Speaker 2: But we never were the last to ask for help.
Speaker 2: We're always pouring into everyone. I see this from my
Speaker 2: own mother. I see this me as a mother. I
Speaker 2: have to remind myself that I need to be poured
Speaker 2: into as well.
Speaker 3: We're just That's how our DNA.
Speaker 2: Is, this is how we've been physically designed and built
Speaker 2: from our privetive years.
Speaker 3: And days, you know, from the stone ages. That's what
Speaker 3: our jobs.
Speaker 2: We're nurturer is we're part of But we were part
Speaker 2: of the village, right, We didn't have to do it
Speaker 2: alone in this world. Why do we feel like we
Speaker 2: have to do it alone, and so get comfortable with
Speaker 2: asking for help. So getting those allies super super important.
Speaker 2: Third piece of advice that I have for female founders
Speaker 2: is to do it anyway, Like go for it anyway.
Speaker 2: And so there's going to be a lot of noise.
Speaker 2: There's going to be a lot of people that are
Speaker 2: going to doubt you. Every time you're going to step
Speaker 2: into our room, there's going to be somebody. And I've
Speaker 2: experienced this in every room that I've been and I
Speaker 2: can name countless stories of the misogyny, of the sexism,
Speaker 2: of the racism, and even the agism.
Speaker 3: Right like, even being young, you'er doubted.
Speaker 2: I can think of my first CEO conference when I
Speaker 2: got investors with you know, venture backed, you know, and
Speaker 2: it's not anyone's fault, it's just I was the first
Speaker 2: portfolio company that was founded like that was a female
Speaker 2: founded portfolio company.
Speaker 3: And I arrived to this conference.
Speaker 2: And every CEO walking in through the door stopped me
Speaker 2: and was like, Hey, where's the event?
Speaker 3: Hey where do I get my name badge?
Speaker 2: Hey, where do I get They just assumed that I
Speaker 2: was like the event manager until you know, one of.
Speaker 3: The LP's was like and welcoming our newest portfolio CEO.
Speaker 2: Sceneria and their faces, right, and so just ignore it
Speaker 2: as best as you can, and you just have to
Speaker 2: keep showing up in those rooms and be authentically you, Right.
Speaker 3: I think that's if I like, that's the third piece
Speaker 3: of advice. Is it took me so.
Speaker 2: Long to get comfortable with fully showing up as myself.
Speaker 3: And I mean, it's not my fault. I had to
Speaker 3: put on a lot of armor.
Speaker 2: I was one of the only women in the boys club,
Speaker 2: and there's so many stories of how I would show up.
Speaker 2: I called myself a man and a skirt, so like
Speaker 2: how I would dress. I could not eat another steak
Speaker 2: at a steakhouse like it was like I was doing
Speaker 2: all the things to fit in. And that's natural, that's
Speaker 2: human tendency. You want to be part of the club.
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to disrupt the norm. But you know,
Speaker 2: I think that where the change really happened for me
Speaker 2: was standing up to my board and to the team
Speaker 2: and being comfortable and leading the way that as scenia.
Speaker 2: That came later for me, and it came through confidence, right,
Speaker 2: It came through like doing it and finding the like
Speaker 2: the courage to be confidence in my own ability, but
Speaker 2: I wish I found that sooner. So my third piece
Speaker 2: of advice is to just to do it anyway. Show
Speaker 2: up in the rooms and show up as you. You
Speaker 2: don't have to be a man and a skirt, like,
Speaker 2: be exactly how you are.
Speaker 3: And I think that the world is is. I think
Speaker 3: it's changing, Jay, So I think it is. It's getting better.
Speaker 2: The statistics aren't there, and I've got thoughts on why
Speaker 2: the stats aren't there, and it's because we're not holding
Speaker 2: institutions accountable. There is an accountability component. Shit does not
Speaker 2: change unless you hold somebody accountable to it. So venture capitalist,
Speaker 2: you know, where is the funding going? Why aren't we
Speaker 2: mandating that at least percentages of these funds go towards
Speaker 2: women owned businesses, lending banking. That's exactly why we're building
Speaker 2: worth Again, I did not want to go be a
Speaker 2: serial entrepreneur.
Speaker 3: I am exhausted of building businesses.
Speaker 2: But there isn't an equitable landscape, and we have to
Speaker 2: hold institutions accountable as well, and so I'm trying to
Speaker 2: do that by standardizing the business credit score and holding
Speaker 2: institutions accountable for equitable lending and for an equitable financial ecosystem.
Speaker 2: But I think that those things have to change as
Speaker 2: well as our consumer behaves as well as so many things.
Speaker 3: There's so many things that have to change.
Speaker 2: And I do believe that the dialogue is happening, which
Speaker 2: is important. That's where it starts. But action comes from doing,
Speaker 2: and so that's going to be the next big step
Speaker 2: and I'm really curious to see how we're going to
Speaker 2: do that in you know, in my generation, I want
Speaker 2: my daughter's generations. I want my kids to have two daughters,
Speaker 2: for them to grow up in a world that they
Speaker 2: can be and do and right now, they have no concept,
Speaker 2: just like I did.
Speaker 3: Right and so I'm raising them in the same way.
Speaker 2: And they're so strong and so independent and so cool
Speaker 2: and so different and all the things. And I hope
Speaker 2: that that continues, like they can always continue to be
Speaker 2: themselves and have that positive dialogue not just from me
Speaker 2: as a parent, but from their own from their own self,
Speaker 2: because the world hopefully looks different for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, great advice. And you reminded me of a
Speaker 1: story I heard when I was in England. I heard
Speaker 1: the speaker talking about and I may get the date wrong,
Speaker 1: but I think she built a big tech company in
Speaker 1: the eighties in England. She talked about how when she
Speaker 1: started out, she used to call other CEOs and she'd
Speaker 1: pretend to be her own assistant and she'd say, I'm
Speaker 1: setting up a meeting for Steve Shirley. Her name was
Speaker 1: stephan and she'd be like, Hey, I'm calling on behalf
Speaker 1: of Steve Shirley. Steve Shirley would love to come and
Speaker 1: meet you. The person would book in the appointment and
Speaker 1: then she'd turn up as a woman and they'd be like, wait,
Speaker 1: how's your name Steve. She's like, oh, they go, I
Speaker 1: go by Steve because I'm Stephanie. And her name became
Speaker 1: Steve Shirley because that's what she was known as. And
Speaker 1: that's what it took. And now I'm hoping times are
Speaker 1: changing and things are shifting, of course drastically since then,
Speaker 1: but still that feeling of women feeling like I have
Speaker 1: to go to a steakhouse, maybe I have to hang
Speaker 1: out here. We're hoping culture is changing. But if we're
Speaker 1: completely honest, if you didn't do those things, would you
Speaker 1: be successful today?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: And she's being honest, Yeah, no, it's and it's such
Speaker 2: a valid point. This is a conversation we're having with
Speaker 2: friends last night at dinner, you know, a friend asked,
Speaker 2: what would I look back and do different? And so
Speaker 2: many things is what I want to say, right hindsight
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. But the truth is nothing right, because it
Speaker 2: took me to the next step, and it took me
Speaker 2: to the next room, and it took me to the
Speaker 2: next table on the next conversation, and it made whatever
Speaker 2: decisions I made allowed me to for me to get
Speaker 2: that land that customer, to me to land that partnership
Speaker 2: and that investor. And I do think that it is
Speaker 2: important not to lose yourself though, And so although I
Speaker 2: was showing up at the steakhouse and at the things,
Speaker 2: like I would invite my counterparts to come, like to
Speaker 2: see it from a different lens. And I'm always like
Speaker 2: every one of like my investors' mentors, like they're all
Speaker 2: probably rolling their eyes laughing at like this is the
Speaker 2: like typical scenario conversation is like how they can be
Speaker 2: better for us to like, okay next time instead, And
Speaker 2: so the next year at that conference, my wonderful investor
Speaker 2: and they're so incredible, so that was not their.
Speaker 3: Intention to make me feel left out. And it was
Speaker 3: a golf tournament on the second day. Of course, it's
Speaker 3: a golf tournament on the second day.
Speaker 2: And so they set me up at a SPA appointment,
Speaker 2: which was so sweet of them.
Speaker 3: But I'm not here to go to the spot.
Speaker 2: I'm here to network with other CEOs and get business done, right,
Speaker 2: And so I ended up just writing the golf carts, right,
Speaker 2: And I ended up writing the golf carts and we
Speaker 2: had such a great time, and like by the end
Speaker 2: of it, you know, next year, they're like, what we
Speaker 2: do different? And I'm like, nothing, Just invite me to
Speaker 2: the golf course, right, And maybe I'm not going to
Speaker 2: golf and maybe I may leave early from a dinner.
Speaker 2: Maybe I won't stay overnight at a conference because I've
Speaker 2: got my kids to go, like to get home to.
Speaker 2: But I want to be invited to that, like I
Speaker 2: want to just be.
Speaker 3: Part of the thing.
Speaker 2: I don't want to have this like curated extra experience.
Speaker 2: And so I'd always invite them, like they would invite
Speaker 2: me back into that conversation of what they could do better.
Speaker 2: But I don't think if I voiced it, they wouldn't
Speaker 2: have known if I just went to the SPA didn't
Speaker 2: say anything right, And so I do.
Speaker 3: Think that that's where I was.
Speaker 2: You know, the early parts of having your voice heard
Speaker 2: is important. You can't make change if you're not going
Speaker 2: to express those ideas. So you have to get comfortable.
Speaker 2: And it's hard. I know, it's so much easier said
Speaker 2: it takes courage to do that.
Speaker 3: But I think if you do it in a.
Speaker 2: Way that's kind, and if you do it in a
Speaker 2: way that's loving it, if you do it in a
Speaker 2: way that's empathetic, and it's not belittling, and it's not oh,
Speaker 2: you made me feel, it's not you language.
Speaker 3: It's I'm really excited for this. And I see a
Speaker 3: lot of good in people.
Speaker 2: And even though I faced a lot of the things
Speaker 2: that I faced, I knew that very very few times
Speaker 2: where I felt that I was malicious or intentional, but
Speaker 2: most of the time it wasn't.
Speaker 3: They just don't know. They just don't know. And so
Speaker 3: I think if you invite people into.
Speaker 2: A proactive conversation, a co created conversation, that change can
Speaker 2: happen that way. And that's how I was able to
Speaker 2: navigate the Boys Club once doing it again.
Speaker 3: I mean, fine, it still hasn't.
Speaker 2: The fact the fintech space is it's different, but I
Speaker 2: do think that we can co create a more beautiful
Speaker 2: experience for all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, thank you for being so honest as well,
Speaker 1: because I think it's like you said, it's been ten
Speaker 1: years and it still hasn't changed drastically. It's changed a
Speaker 1: little bit, but your ability to deal with it positively
Speaker 1: and proactively has helped you move along. And one of
Speaker 1: the things you did, and you said to me, like
Speaker 1: you built your business with family. Yeah, and that's rare
Speaker 1: I feel as well. In this day. I feel like
Speaker 1: there were companies like a century ago which were family built,
Speaker 1: family owned, they passed it down through generations. Family built
Speaker 1: businesses are more rare now. And I've even had a
Speaker 1: lot of friends and family members that I know that
Speaker 1: have built things with their friends, investments, companies, and at
Speaker 1: some point there's a breakof there's a breakdown in communication,
Speaker 1: there's potentially distance that's created, and I think people can
Speaker 1: sometimes be quite naive and trusting when they go into
Speaker 1: family based or friend based businesses, and at some point
Speaker 1: the friendship kind of changes because of money. The family
Speaker 1: falls out over money. Generally, money seems to be this
Speaker 1: force that has the power to break some of the
Speaker 1: deepest bonds. As someone who's built a successful relationship with
Speaker 1: their family and built a business at the same time,
Speaker 1: what three warnings or cautions or clarifications would you put
Speaker 1: into place for anyone listening right now thinking I'm starting
Speaker 1: this with my friend, I'm super excited, we love each other,
Speaker 1: need anything, contracts forget it, or someone with their families,
Speaker 1: just like, of course I trust my family. What would
Speaker 1: you be three things you'd lay out for them to say,
Speaker 1: here's how to get it right, and here's what we did.
Speaker 2: It's definitely very rare so and I've seen it with
Speaker 2: my own friends firsthand.
Speaker 3: Of what you're saying is.
Speaker 2: So treat because you go into it with that level
Speaker 2: of trust, that excitement. With my brother when he came
Speaker 2: into that, he came into the business a year after
Speaker 2: almost a year after he was supporting me on a
Speaker 2: back end, and then when things really started taking like
Speaker 2: taking off, I needed help, I needed to grow, and
Speaker 2: he was an expert in different things. And I think
Speaker 2: advice number one is don't just partner up for the
Speaker 2: sake of partnering.
Speaker 4: Up.
Speaker 2: We definitely had so much trust to me and we
Speaker 2: have the same DNA, right, Like there's like same value
Speaker 2: system every Like there's nobody in my life that has
Speaker 2: gone through almost every life experience with me than my brother.
Speaker 2: Like that's such a cool bond as siblings that you
Speaker 2: get to have, right, They really understand all of the
Speaker 2: craziness the families of the They're really your you know,
Speaker 2: the other half of you in a different way in
Speaker 2: your the primary part of your growing up. So we
Speaker 2: had so much trust. Everything that made me great made
Speaker 2: him great. Everything that you know, would be things that
Speaker 2: maybe messed us up, messed him up. Right, So we
Speaker 2: had this true bond. But he was different in his
Speaker 2: skill set. I had really strong strength and people and
Speaker 2: brand and marketing and just the ability to inspire and
Speaker 2: get talent and drive. He was so great at sales
Speaker 2: and operations and that was the skill set that I needed.
Speaker 3: And so I think advice number one is stay in
Speaker 3: your lanes.
Speaker 2: So I think where what happens is like when you're
Speaker 2: you know, in each other's lanes, that's where it becomes tough.
Speaker 2: So having clear roles and responsibilities and then that's where
Speaker 2: the trust component comes in because if you really trust
Speaker 2: each other, then you have to let them run it
Speaker 2: the way that they would run it, and they have
Speaker 2: to trust to you in running that lane the way
Speaker 2: that I would like that you're going to run it.
Speaker 2: And so I think that that's Number one is to
Speaker 2: divide in Conker.
Speaker 3: Number two, you brought up money. Money is it's tough.
Speaker 2: Right, and so in it that is truly what has
Speaker 2: I've seen broken families and relationships. And one thing that
Speaker 2: you know, when Seal came on board, I could have
Speaker 2: maybe offered a different equity stake or when we were
Speaker 2: like trying to figure out how we're going to do this,
Speaker 2: and it.
Speaker 3: Was fifty to fifty, it wasn't even a question.
Speaker 2: And even though I was started, like started the company first,
Speaker 2: whatever it was, but I knew that I never wanted
Speaker 2: money to be our relationship is the most important thing,
Speaker 2: and so I never wanted to build like what if
Speaker 2: the business is going to fail, we're gonna have success,
Speaker 2: We're going to fail, We're going to I didn't know
Speaker 2: what was going to be the outcome, but family is forever,
Speaker 2: Like I didn't want to ruin that. And so to
Speaker 2: avoid not letting money come in the way. And I
Speaker 2: know this isn't practical for many people, but that was
Speaker 2: the reason why it was fifty to fifty. I got
Speaker 2: two percent more because I'm two years older, so older
Speaker 2: sister all like that.
Speaker 3: That was the deal.
Speaker 2: And actually this company now we're building again together and
Speaker 2: this time he has two percent more to make life fair.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, but we came from a place and with that allowed,
Speaker 2: it wasn't about me feeling great or him feeling great.
Speaker 3: We both came from a sense of partnership.
Speaker 2: And so every decision that you make, and whether that's
Speaker 2: with your friend or with your spouse or whoever you're
Speaker 2: doing a business partner that you're doing business with, if
Speaker 2: you guys are coming at it from this same equitable lens,
Speaker 2: then you know that like there's that extra level of
Speaker 2: trust because there isn't any other gain or benefit for
Speaker 2: sal or for myself there we're always coming at it
Speaker 2: for the same outcome. And I know that's not perfect
Speaker 2: for all kinds of businesses, but it's all about value, right.
Speaker 2: Where there's not that disconnect is when someone doesn't feel
Speaker 2: their value and so really sitting down and understanding the
Speaker 2: value component of it, it's super critical and then just
Speaker 2: advice that it is important to talk about what happens
Speaker 2: if it doesn't go well, right, So to have have
Speaker 2: that conversation and to have things in place to say,
Speaker 2: if it doesn't go well, here's how we're going to
Speaker 2: solve through it.
Speaker 3: But I think it's it's not just having the end
Speaker 3: in mind.
Speaker 2: We actually never signed a like a contract, so that's
Speaker 2: actually I'm giving the advice. I never took the advice,
Speaker 2: and I will say what did get us through it
Speaker 2: is any business partnership. Business is personal like period. It's
Speaker 2: a relationship. I mean, you were the guru of relationship advice,
Speaker 2: like it is. You have to nurture this relationship. You
Speaker 2: have to spend time in this relationship.
Speaker 3: It's a relation.
Speaker 2: You have to ensure that the other person is feeling seen, heard, valued,
Speaker 2: and you've got to ensure that there's strong communication in
Speaker 2: the relationship.
Speaker 3: So Sally and I we're siblings.
Speaker 2: We fight more than any like it is NonStop, Like
Speaker 2: I disagree with him a one hundred times a day,
Speaker 2: one hundred times a day, but we.
Speaker 3: Also make up very quickly.
Speaker 2: Because the way that I talk to my brother, there's
Speaker 2: probably nobody in the world I could ever talk to
Speaker 2: that is like, it's just how a siblings work. But
Speaker 2: we have great level of communication and we got an
Speaker 2: incredible coach to support us. We had almost like a therapist,
Speaker 2: a business therapist, because that's what this is. It's a relationship.
Speaker 2: And so I think it's never too early. So if
Speaker 2: you do have a partnership to have a third party
Speaker 2: that you can communicate, just like couple's therapy, right, that
Speaker 2: you can go to and you're like, we're both committed
Speaker 2: to making this work, but it's so annoying when she
Speaker 2: does this, or it's so annoying when he does that,
Speaker 2: And so it's not coming from a lens of me
Speaker 2: against him, and that there is like a third party
Speaker 2: there that's been super helpful and just building upon that communication.
Speaker 2: So trust is super important and not in that communication.
Speaker 2: It's where it goes wrong is when you start brushing
Speaker 2: it under the rug, right when you're like, that's where
Speaker 2: resentment forms, where relationships fail, business relationships, personal relationship, it's resentment.
Speaker 2: We don't talk about it, we're not addressing it, we're
Speaker 2: not co we're not finding a solution for it. And
Speaker 2: then the next time it happens you're like, oh, remember
Speaker 2: that last time that that happened. Remember so all of
Speaker 2: this triangulation, that negative conversation.
Speaker 3: I'm a huge believer.
Speaker 2: I'm like always hard on my sleeve always, And so
Speaker 2: that's what's worked, to just be honest and have those
Speaker 2: conversations and if you need help, and get that third
Speaker 2: person involved. But that's been what's worked really well for us.
Speaker 1: I think there's something to be said for relationships where
Speaker 1: you already have a deep understanding of each other. When
Speaker 1: Radi and I start a Jouni together, which is our
Speaker 1: tea company, it was so much about leaning into each
Speaker 1: other's strengths and trusting each other with what we knew.
Speaker 1: So I know that Radi deeply understands flavor profile, she
Speaker 1: really understands ingredients, she knows what's good for people's health.
Speaker 1: She's that's her world, Like, that's that's what she's dedicated
Speaker 1: her life to. She's a nutrition is, she's a dietitian.
Speaker 1: She has a background in that, and so I can
Speaker 1: trust her with that. And then I love storytelling, I
Speaker 1: love symbolism, I love aesthetics like that that's my world.
Speaker 1: And I love the idea of how something can become
Speaker 1: a part of someone's routine, and you know, we have
Speaker 1: a Jouny for the morning and a Junie the evening
Speaker 1: and a Juni for midday pick me up. And I
Speaker 1: understand how people need to use products in order to
Speaker 1: feel better. And when there's that trust and that understanding,
Speaker 1: now it's like, Okay, we don't need to tread on
Speaker 1: each other's toes. But we've been together for probably like
Speaker 1: nine ten years when we started something together, so there's
Speaker 1: such a deep understanding, whereas if we started it in
Speaker 1: year one, chances are been a lot more difficult. And
Speaker 1: so I think if you are building something with someone,
Speaker 1: you know, if you know them well enough, it's more
Speaker 1: likely to be effective as opposed to like, oh, we
Speaker 1: just hit it off and we kind of got some
Speaker 1: chemistry and then you know you don't really know them
Speaker 1: well enough. But I wanted to ask you something, something
Speaker 1: that I want to pivot slightly because I think it's
Speaker 1: something that I talk to a lot of people about
Speaker 1: and I think you've nailed in and we kind of
Speaker 1: touched on it in our previous conversation before we started recording.
Speaker 1: You built a business in what is a background product
Speaker 1: right in the sense of it's not consumer facing directly,
Speaker 1: it's not something that everyone would come across sexy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I call it un sexy money, and it's and
Speaker 1: I think it's the coolest type of money. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure these days where everyone thinks I have
Speaker 1: to have a social media following, I have to build
Speaker 1: a brand that's known online. I need a viral brand.
Speaker 1: If it's going to make money, it has to be consumed,
Speaker 1: like we put this weird pressure. And I always think
Speaker 1: about like I used to work at Accentua, and I
Speaker 1: used to think about the amount of things that Accentua required,
Speaker 1: things that extensual works with. I was like, no one's
Speaker 1: ever heard of these companies, and there are founders here
Speaker 1: are winning massively, and I feel like this generation might
Speaker 1: be missing out on the businesses that solve real problems
Speaker 1: that affects millions of people behind the scenes, that the
Speaker 1: opportunity to scale really really fast because we're too busy
Speaker 1: trying to grow an online following. And so walk us
Speaker 1: through that understanding of how you encourage founders to find
Speaker 1: their niche and build their product and think about what
Speaker 1: they're doing, because today it's been like, oh, well, if
Speaker 1: my brand hasn't had a viral video yet, it probably
Speaker 1: won't become big, So so walk us through that a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 2: It's done so much good, but it's ruined us, right like,
Speaker 2: it's ruined us in so so many ways. We have
Speaker 2: to stop doing things for the gram it is. It
Speaker 2: is our mentality of building companies, products, services that if
Speaker 2: it's not this, then it's not that. And I also
Speaker 2: think that it's important for us to have a social
Speaker 2: presence and to utilize all these.
Speaker 3: Tools that we have.
Speaker 2: So there's so much good that can come from it,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't have to be all of it, and
Speaker 2: so I do think it's important. There's so much opportunity
Speaker 2: out there. Most entrepreneurs that I know of personally that
Speaker 2: have been really successful came from a corporate position that
Speaker 2: like saw something and then they wanted to go tackle
Speaker 2: this one unique problem. And these unsexy businesses are solving
Speaker 2: the most complex problems for us. So we did forty
Speaker 2: billion dollars in payments through this ecosystem that I almost
Speaker 2: didn't start. If I didn't build it, we we solved
Speaker 2: huge problems in this It was so unsexy. Card present
Speaker 2: versus card not present so Stripe was focused on digital transactions,
Speaker 2: where was focused on in person transactions.
Speaker 3: Guess what, there was nobody bridging the gap for.
Speaker 2: Like dentist offices that needed both in person and online transactions.
Speaker 3: Boom.
Speaker 2: There was the opportunity that nobody saw on building that tech.
Speaker 2: And it's not about I didn't have the background. I
Speaker 2: wasn't a coder, I wasn't an engineer, but I could
Speaker 2: see where the world was going. And I think that's
Speaker 2: what entrepreneurship is. It's the spirit of solving for problems.
Speaker 2: It's not for show. Success will come if you just
Speaker 2: let go of that. And you can also have a
Speaker 2: social following and build a great band and have the
Speaker 2: podcast and do the things to go reach more people.
Speaker 2: But you can solve if you just focus on solving
Speaker 2: the problem and seeing it uniquely. And if it's one
Speaker 2: of you, you're really like it's resonating with you because
Speaker 2: you're like, I am that person. I'm always finding Like
Speaker 2: you're in the shower and you're like, this should be better,
Speaker 2: this could be better. Right, You're you're always finding the
Speaker 2: next thing. But ideas don't make you an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3: Execution does, right. Everybody has ideas. It's really about execution.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing I feel like, that's the thing
Speaker 2: that I saw maybe in like Salini growing up, was.
Speaker 3: Like got to put in the work.
Speaker 2: Even after everything that I have, I show up every
Speaker 2: single day and I work. I put my head down
Speaker 2: at night and I ask myself, did I like give
Speaker 2: my one hundred and tent? I work so hard still
Speaker 2: and it's just part of and yes, I work smart too,
Speaker 2: so it's not that I'm not just grinding my way.
Speaker 3: I'm being intentional, but.
Speaker 2: Hard work is a huge part of it. Because there's
Speaker 2: no such thing as a billion dollar idea. It's a
Speaker 2: billion dollar.
Speaker 3: Execution, and to execute it's every single day.
Speaker 2: You just got to keep showing up and like that mountain,
Speaker 2: the mountain's going to be there, and then you're gonna
Speaker 2: climb it, and guess what, You're gonna get to the top.
Speaker 3: And you're gonna.
Speaker 2: Climb this thing the next the next day, there's another mountain,
Speaker 2: and there's another mountain. So you've got to love that challenge.
Speaker 2: That's what entrepreneurship is. It's not I didn't build a
Speaker 2: billion dollar It took me twelve years to build that business.
Speaker 2: Ten years to exit that business. It didn't happen overnight.
Speaker 2: It happened because I just kept showing up. It wasn't
Speaker 2: this magic formula. And people ask like, what was the
Speaker 2: secret to the billion dollar success?
Speaker 3: I didn't give up, Like I just somehow kept showing up.
Speaker 3: I can name every founders, like every journey where we
Speaker 3: almost going to make prayer roll. I had to put
Speaker 3: my mortgage on the line. We had to do.
Speaker 2: We didn't get the investors, we lost the customers. But
Speaker 2: you just keep going, and so you have to find
Speaker 2: out why to really power you through. And for me
Speaker 2: it was I just love to solve really big problems.
Speaker 2: And that's why even after exit, right, it's like here
Speaker 2: I'm back again in building again. It's because I see
Speaker 2: the problem and I know we can solve it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you're the right person. And asked this
Speaker 1: question to you because you talked about working hard and
Speaker 1: working smart, But what was the mindset shift in building
Speaker 1: a million dollar business one hundred million and then getting
Speaker 1: to a billion? Like what changed? Because I think there
Speaker 1: may be people listening who've like built the million and
Speaker 1: they're like, I want to get to ten or one hundred.
Speaker 1: I don't know what what do I need to do differently?
Speaker 1: Because I think at every level there's a different mindset,
Speaker 1: different type of work that's required, and often we don't
Speaker 1: talk about that enough, and so you keep doing the
Speaker 1: same thing again and again expecting a different result, as
Speaker 1: Einstein said, is insanity. What was different? What did you
Speaker 1: find that you at to up level to go from
Speaker 1: one to one hundred hundred to a billion?
Speaker 2: You're brilliant because everything has to change. It's completely different
Speaker 2: going from your zero to six figures, you know, getting
Speaker 2: that validation of your it's a completely different journey from
Speaker 2: zero to six, from six to seven, it's a completely
Speaker 2: different journey. And everything breaks, and it's supposed to break.
Speaker 3: Going from seven to eight figures in revenue, it's going
Speaker 3: to break again.
Speaker 2: Your systems are going to break. People are going to break.
Speaker 2: It's going to break, because it's supposed to. Once you
Speaker 2: get you know, you get things right, or you think
Speaker 2: you get these things right. If you're doing what you've
Speaker 2: set out to do, which is go get more customers,
Speaker 2: go get more revenue, there's pressure on that system and
Speaker 2: then you've got to recalibrate. You've got to recalibrate the
Speaker 2: tools you've got to recalibrate the next level of scale,
Speaker 2: and so it is supposed to break. But the one
Speaker 2: thing that's not different if I look back, So we
Speaker 2: had to change our mentality on growth. We had to
Speaker 2: get new technology. It's scale is it's not simple. But
Speaker 2: if I were to boil it down, it comes to
Speaker 2: three things. It's people, process, and profit. You've got to
Speaker 2: scale your people. You've got to scale your process, and
Speaker 2: you've got to scale your profit. Most companies that go
Speaker 2: beyond that market validation of million in revenue and you're
Speaker 2: trying to get to the you know, or the one
Speaker 2: hundred million in value, they have multiple lines of revenue
Speaker 2: and so you're thinking outside of the box. So once
Speaker 2: we were acquiring small businesses, we've shifted to an enterprise strategy.
Speaker 2: Now I'm building again, we're selling directly to the banks.
Speaker 2: We're going directly to enterprise first, because that was the
Speaker 2: one to many that it took me seven years to
Speaker 2: unlock that next and then I'm going to go.
Speaker 3: To small businesses.
Speaker 2: So you have to be able to tap into that
Speaker 2: scale of people, process and profit. But the one thing
Speaker 2: that I would say stayed exactly the same, and it
Speaker 2: was so important for me. I wanted to be the
Speaker 2: one to see the company through to exit. And I
Speaker 2: worked so hard, oh being over prepared over all the
Speaker 2: things so that.
Speaker 3: I could be the best CEO that I could be.
Speaker 2: Like, I put so much intentionality behind working really hard
Speaker 2: to be the best leader that I could. And the
Speaker 2: thing that carried me through that was exactly the same
Speaker 2: was our values in the company. I think we hired
Speaker 2: the right people, we fired the right people, and those
Speaker 2: decisions are hard. And our culture was really built on
Speaker 2: the value system. I mean, I have one Team tattooed
Speaker 2: here on my arm. It comes from that meets me,
Speaker 2: my brother. We're one team, we wan team, one dream like.
Speaker 2: That's that's how it's been since we grew up. That's
Speaker 2: what I wanted our team environment.
Speaker 1: To be like.
Speaker 2: And so building that the culture, the DNA value system
Speaker 2: and those core values, those don't change. Those evolve, but
Speaker 2: that needs to say grounded and the same as you're scaling,
Speaker 2: then you just shift into those are just like it's
Speaker 2: just the next playbook. It's a different heart at the
Speaker 2: next level, but you can solve it and you can
Speaker 2: find people to solve it. And then at that next stage,
Speaker 2: we had amazing leaders at the you know, one hundred
Speaker 2: million dollar mark. And when I started the company, the
Speaker 2: name of the company was Fat Merchant, by the way.
Speaker 3: Because I was twenty five, you know, it was it.
Speaker 2: Was fun and we were disrupting the industry. But I
Speaker 2: knew Fat Merchant was one hundred million dollar company. Stacks
Speaker 2: was a billion dollar company. And I had to get comfortable,
Speaker 2: even though it was to make those pivots, to make
Speaker 2: those changes. And so you've got to see where it's going,
Speaker 2: and you've got to be willing to just throw it
Speaker 2: away and to start again at that, you know, to
Speaker 2: bring in we had to bring in new leaders.
Speaker 3: That's hard.
Speaker 2: Change is hard for organizations, and so you've got to
Speaker 2: go build and to be willing to willing to change.
Speaker 2: It's supposed to break, So get comfortable with it breaking,
Speaker 2: and you just get better.
Speaker 3: It doesn't get easier, but you get better.
Speaker 2: But as long as everybody that's coming in through that
Speaker 2: door has that same that that value principle, and that's
Speaker 2: something that I think it's the most important thing. I
Speaker 2: was so tired of hearing my entire career scenario. You
Speaker 2: take things too personally. Oh wow, And I do because
Speaker 2: it is personal. It's the most personal thing I spent.
Speaker 2: I had this company before I even had my children.
Speaker 2: It's my first baby, right, Like I give that much
Speaker 2: energy and love even for work. Right those that are
Speaker 2: in the workforce, like you, spend more time at work
Speaker 2: than you do anywhere else. It is personal. You don't
Speaker 2: leave yourself at the door before you show up on Zoom.
Speaker 2: You shouldn't be expected to. And I think that we
Speaker 2: can create and I have this vision of a world
Speaker 2: in you know, a working world where we do bring
Speaker 2: the human first. And we had the most tremendous leadership
Speaker 2: and people, and it's been so amazing to be able
Speaker 2: to build again with that same value principle.
Speaker 3: And it's just come. It's the first component of it.
Speaker 2: And who like, you are the company you keep, Literally,
Speaker 2: you are the company you keep.
Speaker 3: And so that DNA is the most important, So don't change.
Speaker 3: That has to be reflective of your value system. And
Speaker 3: then the rest is just a pipe book.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate your highlighting of just how many challenges
Speaker 1: there are to solve and how it's actually normal for
Speaker 1: things to break every time you upgrade and up level.
Speaker 1: And by the way, this includes the team that's working too,
Speaker 1: Like I look at I couldn't do anything without my team,
Speaker 1: It just wouldn't be possible. And the people process profit
Speaker 1: point is so brilliantly laid out for anyone who's listening
Speaker 1: right now, Like I think those three things are so
Speaker 1: pivotal in an organization. And people being able to constantly
Speaker 1: solve after a break. That resilience and grit that's required
Speaker 1: by the whole team, not just by the leader, by
Speaker 1: the whole team. That's so pivotal. And I was going
Speaker 1: to ask you, because I'm listening to you now and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking there's probably at least, like I reckon, you
Speaker 1: have a minimum of one hundred stories a year of
Speaker 1: things going wrong. And I was going to ask you,
Speaker 1: what was your darkest day as an entrepreneur, Like what
Speaker 1: was the toughest day that you remember where? And how
Speaker 1: did it feel and how did you deal with it?
Speaker 2: Surprisingly, my toughest days were actually after I achieved the
Speaker 2: billion dollar value. I sold the company twice, which is
Speaker 2: also a very interesting journey, and I did the things
Speaker 2: that I wanted to do for my team, so I
Speaker 2: carried that my team with me. We made record breaking
Speaker 2: success for our investors, for our team, all the things,
Speaker 2: and then the next year we like I got distracted,
Speaker 2: as I mentioned, like I was chasing something that I
Speaker 2: didn't know that I wanted, and so it was like.
Speaker 3: Boom, we did you know?
Speaker 2: It was two hundred and twenty million, I think was
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty valuation and exit where we cashed seventy
Speaker 2: percent out of the company.
Speaker 3: So whoever owned shares, like everybody made money.
Speaker 2: It was and it wasn't just about the financial It
Speaker 2: was meaningful in a sense of like when you get
Speaker 2: to exit something, when you get to like take it
Speaker 2: to completion, it feels so good, like it was just incredible.
Speaker 2: And then got heads down because it was now what's next.
Speaker 2: It's let's let's keep growing, let's get it to the billion,
Speaker 2: let's IPO, let's go, you know, do what's next. And
Speaker 2: I got heads down again in eighteen months, just building
Speaker 2: and grinding and building and grinding. The only things in
Speaker 2: my life were my company and my family, like that
Speaker 2: was all all it was. My health was deteriorating. I
Speaker 2: was at the worst worst health and I actually had
Speaker 2: never gone to a doctor because I think women can
Speaker 2: relate to this, Like my ob was my doctor for
Speaker 2: like because I was having babies in between and Faisel
Speaker 2: and I were you know, planning a family, and that
Speaker 2: was it. So for five years, my only doctor was
Speaker 2: my ob and I had to go to the doctor
Speaker 2: because it's like not the most prideful thing I can say,
Speaker 2: but we had to get like key Man life insurance
Speaker 2: before our theories easy had to like do these insurance,
Speaker 2: which which means that like I had to be tested
Speaker 2: if I was healthy and what my insurance policy as
Speaker 2: a CEO was. So I went to the doctor because
Speaker 2: I was required to for work, and I got my
Speaker 2: report card back, which was my health report, and I
Speaker 2: was quite literally like a fifty seven year old man,
Speaker 2: like I actually became the pale mail stale CEO, Like
Speaker 2: I literally became him. And my health was my cholesterol,
Speaker 2: my cortisol.
Speaker 3: Everything was like I didn't even know, like I had
Speaker 3: no clue, and you know, I had lost my father
Speaker 3: the year before, and it was just hard. It was
Speaker 3: like what am I What am I doing this for?
Speaker 3: And we had our Series.
Speaker 2: D coming up, and it's brutal, like going through some
Speaker 2: of these fundraising like with big bankers and investment bankers.
Speaker 3: I was on the road.
Speaker 2: I had to do forty plus fireside chats with the
Speaker 2: most incredible, you know, large private equities that like in finance,
Speaker 2: you like you know you have your you're from essential,
Speaker 2: like you dream of like being in front of like
Speaker 2: the Black Rocks and the Kkrs and like it was
Speaker 2: so fun and exhilarating in a different way, but.
Speaker 3: It was hard. I was on the road and we accomplished.
Speaker 2: What we set out to do was to go, you know,
Speaker 2: close the series D bring in other minority investors. We
Speaker 2: were one hundred plus million in revenue, and so it
Speaker 2: wasn't even a fictitious value. It wasn't a value based
Speaker 2: on like, oh, here's this tech value multiple. We had
Speaker 2: a hundred plus million in revenue and we closed around
Speaker 2: one point one billion. Everything I'd ever dreamed of the
Speaker 2: whole We're we're an Orlando based company, which is a
Speaker 2: huge deal. Or the first unicorn out of Orlando, out
Speaker 2: of Florida, like so many big moments.
Speaker 3: We had the community.
Speaker 2: It was a big milestone to celebrate. So we had
Speaker 2: this huge the Mayor's like, everything's there, all this excitement
Speaker 2: around this milestone, around this series, either around this valuation
Speaker 2: and around this exit. And when the party was over,
Speaker 2: it happened so fast, like it was like two weeks
Speaker 2: of all of this and it was back to work
Speaker 2: and I went to my next sport meeting and I
Speaker 2: was like, here, here's the next Now it's two billion,
Speaker 2: And it was the first time that I was like,
Speaker 2: do I actually want to go do it again?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: And I felt the most emptiest I had ever the
Speaker 2: loneliest I had ever felt. And it's because what happens
Speaker 2: when you aim for the moon but you actually land.
Speaker 2: I have no goal, and I did everything that I
Speaker 2: wanted to do, and so I did what most typical
Speaker 2: tech founders do is I took a sabbatical, took my
Speaker 2: family to Europe, and it was really just to spend
Speaker 2: time with myself and to really ask myself the hard
Speaker 2: questions of what is it that I want to do next?
Speaker 2: And then you know, we had this big plan laid
Speaker 2: out for the next transaction or maybe going to you know, IPO.
Speaker 3: We had three.
Speaker 2: Acquisitions at that time, and as like a student of learning,
Speaker 2: like I get really excited about just learning, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I want to do something that I haven't done, and
Speaker 2: going public with something that was just like on the
Speaker 2: you know, on the checklist. But I came back and
Speaker 2: decided that I was going to leave my job. I
Speaker 2: was like, I have to, this is not for me anymore,
Speaker 2: and that I was. And also the organization was quite large,
Speaker 2: you know, as you can tell, I'm a people person.
Speaker 2: My love language is quality time, and so it was
Speaker 2: just time for me. They hand over to another team
Speaker 2: that was going to take it from that billion to
Speaker 2: two or to the next milestone and to the next level.
Speaker 2: That was when the transition really began. And I've spent
Speaker 2: my entire like adulthood to find like building this. My
Speaker 2: work was my worth. It was my only identity and
Speaker 2: it was so hard to shed, like what was next,
Speaker 2: and so that was it. That was like the toughest moment.
Speaker 2: It was the hardest decision. I had many people think
Speaker 2: that that was like the craziest thing to leave at
Speaker 2: that time. I left a lot of equity on the
Speaker 2: tiam I'm still a huge I love this company. I'm
Speaker 2: a big shareholder. It's always going to be part of
Speaker 2: my story. I'm always going to be the founder of Stacks.
Speaker 2: But I had more I wanted to do, and impact
Speaker 2: was an important part of it and taking care of
Speaker 2: myself and getting to know myself. And I lost a
Speaker 2: decade and I wouldn't change it. Like we talked about,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go back and change it. It's like it's
Speaker 2: literally given us the most incredible life. It's given me
Speaker 2: all of these opportunities. I would do it over again
Speaker 2: every single day. But now I just want to be
Speaker 2: a lot more intentional and I get to come from
Speaker 2: a place of where I get to build again. And
Speaker 2: it's not about freedom of dollar anymore. It's about freedom
Speaker 2: of impact. And I get to use my time and
Speaker 2: my resources and my connections and the network and to
Speaker 2: go build something incredible. And I thought maybe i'd retire
Speaker 2: right after right so I was like, Okay, maybe I'm
Speaker 2: gonna you know, come off, I've got the podcast. I
Speaker 2: love meeting amazing women and supporting female founders.
Speaker 3: But if I turn that into work, it would lose
Speaker 3: its magic.
Speaker 2: And so after a couple months, and this is where
Speaker 2: serial entrepreneurship like kicks in and now I get it.
Speaker 3: You get the next idea and then you can't eat.
Speaker 2: Breathe, sleep, think about it in the shower, and that's
Speaker 2: how it That's how it happened, and we got the
Speaker 2: team back together, and we're gonna go We're gonna go
Speaker 2: do it again because I'm thirty seven years old and like,
Speaker 2: what else am I gonna do.
Speaker 3: With my life?
Speaker 2: And so I'm gonna I'm gonna go build. But this time,
Speaker 2: I think I get to build with more confidence. I
Speaker 2: get to build with a different network. I get to
Speaker 2: build without having the dollar in mind or having that pressure,
Speaker 2: and I get to take a different kind of risk.
Speaker 2: And I'm really excited about the scenario two point zero.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say, is that is
Speaker 1: that scenario two point right now?
Speaker 2: The I mean, it's been such an amazing journey of
Speaker 2: just getting to know myself and finding time to really
Speaker 2: think about what's important. And I was telling you that
Speaker 2: mantra in the beginning of I have all the time
Speaker 2: in the world, and I'm so busy.
Speaker 3: It's back again. I've got all the million things.
Speaker 2: But I really do believe I've all the time in
Speaker 2: the world now because I get to choose it with
Speaker 2: all the things.
Speaker 3: I get to fill it with all the things that
Speaker 3: I love. I took on my health head on.
Speaker 2: I'm proud to report that my health is incredible, Like
Speaker 2: I'm like everything is like I'm the healthiest I've literally
Speaker 2: been since like before I had kids, and it feels
Speaker 2: amazing and I feel so great inside.
Speaker 3: And I have this amazing.
Speaker 2: Energy in a different way, and I you know, prioritize
Speaker 2: myself and my workouts and it used to feel like
Speaker 2: a chore.
Speaker 3: And now it's like I never.
Speaker 2: Thought I would be that that girl that like loves
Speaker 2: to work out, I mean, and I have different like
Speaker 2: I love to walk and I love being in nature.
Speaker 2: I've found I've always been a spiritual person, but I
Speaker 2: lost that part of me because it's hard to make
Speaker 2: the time right, it's hard to add all the things.
Speaker 2: And I've really given that like a big part, a
Speaker 2: big bucket in my life.
Speaker 3: And I've really filled that bucket and.
Speaker 2: Found ways to just go deep and be in peace.
Speaker 3: And I'm so.
Speaker 2: Much more calmer now, Like if you ask any of
Speaker 2: my friends, like my energy is just in a different energy.
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful, you know.
Speaker 2: I was talking to Fhasal on the way here, and
Speaker 2: it's like we think that everything's happening.
Speaker 3: To us, right. It's so hard, it's so hard.
Speaker 2: But when hard things happen. You have to trust then
Speaker 2: it's happening for us. And I really do understand that now.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of spiritual teachers, will you know,
Speaker 2: share that that you to trust, you have to trust
Speaker 2: in that.
Speaker 3: There is a better plan. And I finally get it.
Speaker 2: And now when I pray or when I look deep
Speaker 2: and I ask, and I'm like, I want this or
Speaker 2: I want to think about that, or allow me these
Speaker 2: opportunities or something better. So when things don't happen exactly
Speaker 2: the way, it's because the timing isn't right, because there's
Speaker 2: something better, and you just have to trust in the
Speaker 2: power of the universe. And I really do, I really
Speaker 2: do believe that when you're in that frequency and it
Speaker 2: sounds like so woo, but I get it.
Speaker 3: And I feel really grateful that I was able to
Speaker 3: take the time to put in the work. And you've
Speaker 3: got to put in the work.
Speaker 2: And it's hard to look deep and check your ego,
Speaker 2: check you know, how you're actually living your life in
Speaker 2: action and is that really aligning? And I can look
Speaker 2: back and I also we said so many mistakes, so
Speaker 2: many things I want to do over on that I
Speaker 2: don't I won't change, but I think growth is a
Speaker 2: big part of the journey, and I don't know what.
Speaker 3: My destination is going to be. I think this time around,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to just build a billion dollar business.
Speaker 2: I'm probably going to build I don't know, something even greater.
Speaker 2: But I'm not capping it, so just uncap it. And
Speaker 2: I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 1: That's so beautiful to hear. And it's so wonderful that
Speaker 1: you were able to take lessons from the last ten
Speaker 1: years and shift and make changes and use this transition
Speaker 1: peer to have a more transformational journey now, because yeah,
Speaker 1: you can get so lost and broken by something that
Speaker 1: it's hard to do it again. And I think a
Speaker 1: big part of that, from what I've learned from you
Speaker 1: and private conversations, has been your relationship with fairs you've
Speaker 1: been with them since you guys are twenty and your
Speaker 1: children as well. And you know, I find like women
Speaker 1: get asked this question more than anyone. It's like, how
Speaker 1: do you do it all? Right? And it's one of
Speaker 1: those unfair questions with the unfair pressure that falls on women.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask you, though, for your relationship
Speaker 1: and your relationship with your children, how you were telling
Speaker 1: me this earlier, you were like, I think we're really
Speaker 1: trying to do this right and raise great humans and
Speaker 1: everything else. What have been the two most critical pieces
Speaker 1: of being in love since you were twenty while you
Speaker 1: build this thirty seven today and having two children five
Speaker 1: and eight that's during all of this, right, like this
Speaker 1: is all happening. We haven't even like that's all happening?
Speaker 1: And was it perfectly balanced? What did balance look like?
Speaker 1: And if you had to say here were two things
Speaker 1: that were the two priorities that made sure that both
Speaker 1: things stayed on track, what would they be.
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for my husband and my partner, and
Speaker 2: you know, we met so young and we build our
Speaker 2: lives together, and so I'm like super he's also an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2: We're both like different personality types, but also just he's
Speaker 2: the most incredible, loving human. You know, we have a
Speaker 2: joke in our family that it's like everybody meets Sal,
Speaker 2: my brother, and like everybody loves Sal, and Sal always goes,
Speaker 2: and then they meet my sister, and then everybody loves Scenaria,
Speaker 2: and then they meet Fasal and then we're like chopliver,
Speaker 2: like everybody loves it it's everybody loves Raymond, but our
Speaker 2: house is everybody loves like Fasal. So we've got a
Speaker 2: house that's just full and it's filled with so much love.
Speaker 2: And I think it goes back to the same things
Speaker 2: of communication. And you know, I think we in the
Speaker 2: in the beginning, we talked about productivity, and we just
Speaker 2: communicate really well.
Speaker 3: We're a team. The value system is of a team.
Speaker 2: And never in our like we've always had to you know,
Speaker 2: one person's been in the driver's seat, or one person's been,
Speaker 2: you know, in the back. We've always been side by side,
Speaker 2: even if our careers are taking us in different paths.
Speaker 3: Like I do feel like I've had that.
Speaker 2: Support system in my home life with him, and that
Speaker 2: is something that I'm so grateful for to have a
Speaker 2: partner that is not intimidated by the success or not
Speaker 2: intimidated by like he's my biggest cheerleader, he's my biggest,
Speaker 2: biggest fan, and it's that level of confidence.
Speaker 3: I do think that I've been very fortunate to have
Speaker 3: strong men in my life.
Speaker 2: I've never had men that you know, I've had all
Speaker 2: strong male models who treat women with like just the
Speaker 2: most amazing things that we are, and I feel like
Speaker 2: that has been a huge part of where I don't
Speaker 2: see the world in that way, Like I feel empowered
Speaker 2: because my home feels empowered. I know so many women
Speaker 2: that they have to mask their success at home or
Speaker 2: on a date. I have so many friends that are
Speaker 2: struggling in dating life and they're so successful, they're so incredible,
Speaker 2: and when they show up they have to it feels
Speaker 2: emasculating because they have so much success or that they're
Speaker 2: you know, maybe earning more money or have more accolades.
Speaker 2: And I do think that, you know, it takes strong
Speaker 2: men to be with strong women, and there are strong
Speaker 2: men in this world.
Speaker 3: I've been fortunate for that.
Speaker 2: And the advice that I have on how we've been
Speaker 2: able to co partner and co parent and do the
Speaker 2: things is building a home with love and honesty and
Speaker 2: trust and spending time together that productivity.
Speaker 3: Like every Sunday we have this meeting, so we have
Speaker 3: like my whole life has been CEO life that.
Speaker 2: I like put into our systems at home, but we
Speaker 2: have a Sunday meeting. We call it Sunday Zoom out.
Speaker 2: And so my schedule is really busy. You have to
Speaker 2: travel a lot for work. I'm speaking at conferences, he's
Speaker 2: got his businesses. We're like two ships sometimes in the night.
Speaker 3: And then we've got our kids.
Speaker 2: We've got our girls their number one priority and each other,
Speaker 2: like as a family unit, we're a priority. On Sundays,
Speaker 2: we sit down and now Mila is old enough, she's
Speaker 2: actually like she takes notes for us, and so the
Speaker 2: kids are involved and it's like, here's the schedules for
Speaker 2: the week, and here's what you know Mom's up to,
Speaker 2: and here's what's what Dad's up to. And you know,
Speaker 2: their schedules are crazy. They've got tennis and soccer and
Speaker 2: piano and they're super overachievers with a full schedule as
Speaker 2: well by their choosing, by the way, so by their choosing,
Speaker 2: they get to.
Speaker 3: Pick their activities.
Speaker 2: And so every week we sit down and we just
Speaker 2: were like, Okay, here's what's happening. And so that in
Speaker 2: and of itself, that transparency. It's not like mom has.
Speaker 3: To go to work. We're so excited.
Speaker 2: Because mom is going to la to go do be
Speaker 2: on this podcast. And then I'll show them a clip
Speaker 2: of the podcast and they're like, oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 2: Many times, like with if I have like so much travel.
Speaker 3: The kids go with me. They have been on you know,
Speaker 3: every stage.
Speaker 2: They've gotten to meet the most incredible They got to
Speaker 2: meet someone Biles at the Ernst and Young the Strategic
Speaker 2: Girls from I was speaking at Strategic Growth.
Speaker 3: For them and you know, I knew she was gonna
Speaker 3: be there.
Speaker 2: I brought the kids and I knew our path would coincide. Backstage,
Speaker 2: the girls were with me, like, we just try to
Speaker 2: incorporate the kids into everything as best as we can.
Speaker 2: And it's not perfect parenting, right, they're gonna miss school,
Speaker 2: they're going to do the things, but involve them and
Speaker 2: so on Sundays we sit down as a family and
Speaker 2: we're excited for each other. That takes the pressure off
Speaker 2: of like it's not about the schedule, it's about what
Speaker 2: are our wins for this week as a family, and
Speaker 2: then we prioritize. Okay, so if this is what's happening,
Speaker 2: and this is what's happening, then we go into like
Speaker 2: the tacticality of it, right.
Speaker 3: Who's doing pickup, who's doing drop off?
Speaker 2: And I do want to make sure you know, the
Speaker 2: women in the audience, especially here, I do have help
Speaker 2: because that is it's impossible.
Speaker 3: It is impossible. The weight of the things that we
Speaker 3: have to do. Ask for help.
Speaker 2: Whatever you can delegate off, even if it's the laundry,
Speaker 2: even if it's And if you don't have the resources,
Speaker 2: ask a friend, ask for help, trade share, do the things.
Speaker 2: But help is a big part of how it all works.
Speaker 2: And so I've got my mom and we've got support.
Speaker 2: And just because I have support doesn't mean that Phasal
Speaker 2: and I aren't the ones that are like the nucleus
Speaker 2: of it, right, Like we fight over drop off, we
Speaker 2: fight over it, and so we just divide and conquer,
Speaker 2: and the kids are involved. And there really isn't perfect balance.
Speaker 2: I think that's what It's a myth, you know, myth
Speaker 2: balance is bullshit.
Speaker 3: There isn't.
Speaker 2: It's integration. And so we've just learned to integrate. We've
Speaker 2: made our lives out of it. We travel so much,
Speaker 2: we make it fun. That's how we do. And then
Speaker 2: every week we prioritize time together for just him and
Speaker 2: I and that's how we've been able to release say,
Speaker 2: there's and it's not perfect. We've had our moments through
Speaker 2: the years, like hard moments through the years, and every
Speaker 2: time we have hard moments. It's because we've deprioritized ourselves.
Speaker 2: We've deprioritized our relationship, and then when we don't have
Speaker 2: date nights or or just even a walk right where
Speaker 2: it's just one on one time and we're not connecting,
Speaker 2: then we're annoyed at each other and we're bitter, and
Speaker 2: then everything else falls in our place. So that Sunday
Speaker 2: meeting is super super critical for our family. And you
Speaker 2: can have all like you can. I was so tired
Speaker 2: of hearing that you can't have it all. We often
Speaker 2: hear that, and many successful people say you can't have
Speaker 2: it all. I want to have it all, but I
Speaker 2: want to define what all looks like. So for me,
Speaker 2: it's that going back to the threes, I've got three buckets.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: So it's my family, it's my work, right and now
Speaker 2: it's still building this company, and it's impact right. It's
Speaker 2: it's the work that I get to do with women
Speaker 2: in business. And I think that that's and that might change, right,
Speaker 2: So your buckets might evolve, but those are the buckets
Speaker 2: that I'm filling.
Speaker 3: And it's not perfect on a day to day. So
Speaker 3: when I'm here and I'm here for work, I'm fully
Speaker 3: present here and I know everything is taken care of.
Speaker 2: And when I'm home, I'm fully home. And that's why
Speaker 2: I love going into the office. So I FaZe likes
Speaker 2: to work from home. We can't work and like because
Speaker 2: he's always cooking, he's always distracting me, like he's he
Speaker 2: lives on Chronos time like he's he definitely has all
Speaker 2: the time in the world and he's just so chill.
Speaker 2: We're like so opposite, and so we work separate. Like
Speaker 2: I go into the office because I like to go in.
Speaker 2: I like to get my stuff done. But then when
Speaker 2: I'm home home and everything is like it's all for them,
Speaker 2: So I spend we spend quality time.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what it is.
Speaker 2: I think it's truly that, you know, living in the
Speaker 2: now and living in the present and just enjoying We
Speaker 2: can enjoy the journey today. We don't have to wait
Speaker 2: for the milestone we have to wait for when we
Speaker 2: have this house, or when we have this or when
Speaker 2: we have that. People waste away their lives chasing waste
Speaker 2: it all the way you have it in front of you.
Speaker 1: Scenario has been such a joy talking to you today
Speaker 1: and hearing about the incredible journey you've been on, and
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be your friend now and watch
Speaker 1: the next phase and get to know you more through
Speaker 1: this part. And we end every on Purpose episode with
Speaker 1: a final five. Oh my goodness, which are the fast five?
Speaker 1: So you have to answer every question in one word
Speaker 1: to one sentence maximum. Okay, so scenaria madonnay. These are
Speaker 1: your fast five. Final five. So the first question is
Speaker 1: what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 2: Everything isn't as good as it seems, and everything isn't
Speaker 2: as bad as it seems.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's great advice, all right. What is the worst
Speaker 1: advice you've ever had or received?
Speaker 2: I think the worst advice I've ever received is it's
Speaker 2: honestly been the best advice in some way because it's
Speaker 2: been the underestimating, like the underestimation of like that you
Speaker 2: can't right.
Speaker 3: Or not now? And why not now? Why not me?
Speaker 1: Nice question number three? What's your freedom formula?
Speaker 2: You know, freedom of dollar is important. You've got to
Speaker 2: be able to have financial freedom. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: you've got to have all the money in the bank,
Speaker 2: but financial freedom is important so you can feel secure.
Speaker 2: But it's freedom of time like, that's what we're living for.
Speaker 2: And if you can get that freedom of time, then
Speaker 2: hopefully you can focus on impacts.
Speaker 3: It's freedom of impact.
Speaker 2: So it's freedom of dollar, freedom of time, and freedom
Speaker 2: of impact.
Speaker 1: I love that question, numb before, how do you avoid
Speaker 1: being lonely at.
Speaker 2: The top, you surround yourself with real friends. You surround
Speaker 2: yourself with people who also feel just as lonely or
Speaker 2: in their fields, and you don't have You have a
Speaker 2: small circle, but you have a meaningful circle.
Speaker 1: And fifth and final question we asked every guest has
Speaker 1: ever been on the show, if you could create one
Speaker 1: law that everyone in the world had to follow, what
Speaker 1: would it be?
Speaker 2: The one law that I would like, The world needs
Speaker 2: to be led with kindness. So before you say anything
Speaker 2: shitty or nasty or something's about to come out of
Speaker 2: your mouth like or even in your own for your
Speaker 2: own self, just do it with love, like do it
Speaker 2: with extra extra, extra, extra extra love. Because if we
Speaker 2: just love on each other, if we love on ourselves,
Speaker 2: I do think that the world would just it would
Speaker 2: be perfect.
Speaker 1: Sonia. I love your energy ever since the moment we met.
Speaker 1: We met last year at the Baby to Baby Guard
Speaker 1: and we just hit it off and started talking, and
Speaker 1: I got to meet Faisal as well, and so us
Speaker 1: three were hanging out. And every time I meet you
Speaker 1: at four more in love with your energy and aura.
Speaker 1: And I'm just so grateful for what you're doing for
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs all over the world. And I hope everyone has
Speaker 1: been listening and watching. Follow Sennor on social media, subscribe
Speaker 1: to our podcast, watch out for what's next with their
Speaker 1: journey with worth Ai and uh Sceneria. I'm truly grateful
Speaker 1: to call you a friend, and I'm really really happy
Speaker 1: that you came and trusted us to be on on purpose.
Speaker 1: And I hope everyone's been listening and watching. Share your insights,
Speaker 1: the things you're going to try, the nuggets of wisdom
Speaker 1: that Sinnaria shared that resonated with you, share them on
Speaker 1: stories on TikTok on Instagram. I'm always looking out to
Speaker 1: see what really connected with your heart and your mind,
Speaker 1: and I think there were so many amazing insights that
Speaker 1: came out of today, Sinara. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you Jay. The feeling is so mutual.
Speaker 2: You're incredible for those that of course your audience knows this,
Speaker 2: but it's hard to meet your heroes because you don't
Speaker 2: know what they're going to be like. And I've been
Speaker 2: a true like I've always looked the amount of podcasts
Speaker 2: that I've listened to, the amount of daily JS I've
Speaker 2: heard in my you know, in my career. I was
Speaker 2: almost afraid when I met you and I told you this,
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know what it was going to
Speaker 2: be like. But you were the same as what I
Speaker 2: would have imagined, but if not better, you were just
Speaker 2: so incredible and I wish you so much success. And
Speaker 2: the world is rooting for you because we need more
Speaker 2: people will like you rooting for us.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much, thank you. If you
Speaker 1: love this episode, you'll enjoy my conversation with Megan Trainer
Speaker 1: on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from
Speaker 1: the inside out.
Speaker 4: My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for
Speaker 4: five minutes. It was already tough for me to love
Speaker 4: my body, but after the C section scar with all
Speaker 4: the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've
Speaker 4: been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I
Speaker 4: was like, you know what, her thighs are cute