Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: It was like a slow nightmare, because every day you think, oh,
Speaker 2: surely tomorrow I'll be better, and I would dream of
Speaker 2: being better at night. I would dream that my face
Speaker 2: was quote unquote normal or back to the way it was,
Speaker 2: and I'd wake up and there'd be no change.
Speaker 1: At age thirty six, writer Sarah Rule developed a severe
Speaker 1: case of facial paralysis. The left side of her face drooped,
Speaker 1: She couldn't blink or raise her eyebrows, and she could
Speaker 1: no longer smile.
Speaker 2: You know, they say, like, oh, the eyes or the
Speaker 2: window of the soul. The face is the window to
Speaker 2: the soul. I mean, you look at what someone's emoting
Speaker 2: and you think you can read it. It's a big deal.
Speaker 2: So to lose a part of that social expression. I
Speaker 2: just felt frozen.
Speaker 1: On today's episode what it's like to lose your smile.
Speaker 1: I'm Maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans,
Speaker 1: a show about who we are and who we become
Speaker 1: in the face of a big change. Sarah Rule is
Speaker 1: a celebrated writer known for her popular plays, including the
Speaker 1: Pulitzer Prize finalists, The Clean House and In the Next Room.
Speaker 1: She excels at finding Poetry in Everyday Life and Hilarity
Speaker 1: and Tragedy. The facial paralysis Sarah developed is called called
Speaker 1: Bell's palsy. It's caused by damage to a nerve that
Speaker 1: helps control the muscles in the face. It's unclear what
Speaker 1: causes the condition, but for Sarah, it happened right after
Speaker 1: she gave birth to twins. A lactation consultant was visiting
Speaker 1: Sarah at the hospital and noticed there was something unusual
Speaker 1: about Sarah's face.
Speaker 2: She looked at me and she said, your eye looks
Speaker 2: a little droopy. And I thought, what a rude nurse, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm tired. I thought my eye must be droopy from fatigue,
Speaker 2: and she said, no, that's not what I mean. Go
Speaker 2: look in the mirror. So I got up, I put
Speaker 2: the baby down, I looked in the mirror, and indeed,
Speaker 2: my whole left face had fallen down.
Speaker 1: When you first saw yourself in the mirror, what was
Speaker 1: your visceral reaction?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Like? What? How did that strike you?
Speaker 2: It was really traumatic. It was like looking in the
Speaker 2: mirror and seeing another person, another future, not recognizing the self.
Speaker 2: It was very disturbing. And my husband is a doctor,
Speaker 2: he's a psychiatrist, so I called him and I think
Speaker 2: he was immediately worried that I had a stroke. So
Speaker 2: he said, get them to call a neurology consult and
Speaker 2: I'll be right over.
Speaker 1: So when you found out that it wasn't a stroke
Speaker 1: and it was in fact Bell's palsy, I mean, how
Speaker 1: is that explained to you? And how did that make
Speaker 1: you feel?
Speaker 2: So my first noural just didn't have the best bedside manner.
Speaker 2: You know. He did a number of tests on me
Speaker 2: to determine that it was Bell's palsy, and he just
Speaker 2: kind of said, we don't know why it comes, we
Speaker 2: don't know when it goes. We don't know whether you'll
Speaker 2: get better or not. You'll probably be better in three
Speaker 2: months and just go home and rest and take these
Speaker 2: steroids and there's nothing else to do. My husband was
Speaker 2: with me, and the clearest memory I have is lying
Speaker 2: down in that little hospital bed with them, the narrow bed,
Speaker 2: him holding me and me crying and saying, I don't
Speaker 2: want to be ugly for you, and he said that
Speaker 2: could never be and he just kind of held me
Speaker 2: through the night.
Speaker 1: Can you describe how your face changed? So following your diagnosis,
Speaker 1: what happened when you tried to smile.
Speaker 2: So the one of the truly awful ironies of Bell's
Speaker 2: palsy is you start to recruit the wrong muscles. So
Speaker 2: sometimes when you smile, it actually looks like a grimace.
Speaker 2: My left side would go down when my right side
Speaker 2: would go up, and my eye would close. My left
Speaker 2: eye would close also while I was trying to smile,
Speaker 2: so it would look like you were like you were
Speaker 2: winking at someone and grimacing rather than smiling. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: smiling was the thing. I was most obsessed with people
Speaker 2: reading my affect. And I think particularly because I had
Speaker 2: these little babies and I wanted to smile at them.
Speaker 2: And I also knew that their emotional coding was in
Speaker 2: a way getting wired, and that it's very important having
Speaker 2: your mother smile at you and your baby. And I
Speaker 2: felt like I couldn't tell if they could read my
Speaker 2: face as a smile. I mean, I can look at
Speaker 2: pictures of myself now from that time and I do
Speaker 2: look very blank, you know, very affectless. It just my
Speaker 2: face was like a mask.
Speaker 1: Tell me about how your day to day life change.
Speaker 1: In those early weeks.
Speaker 2: I stopped smiling at people because I didn't want them
Speaker 2: to misinterpret it how sad. I mean I stopped making
Speaker 2: an effort in those social interactions with strangers. If I
Speaker 2: had to, I would explain myself. So, for instance, I
Speaker 2: remember Anna, my oldest, being in kindergarten and having to
Speaker 2: meet the new parents and sort of explaining, if I
Speaker 2: don't seem friendly, it's because the left side of my
Speaker 2: face is paralyzed, and they would say, oh, okay, and
Speaker 2: we'd move on. I felt like I tried to compensate
Speaker 2: by vocalizing more or making hand gestures, so if I
Speaker 2: saw a neighbor from far away, I would wave instead
Speaker 2: of smile to kind of mark a hello. And a
Speaker 2: lot of those were unconscious compensations. I didn't mean to
Speaker 2: do them. I just did them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was your daughter Anna's reaction like, because she
Speaker 1: knew a version of you that it'd smiled right, or
Speaker 1: that had blinked with ease and moved her eyebrows, I mean,
Speaker 1: what was that interaction?
Speaker 2: Like? It's funny. I was really worried about it. I
Speaker 2: was really worried that I'd come home with these two
Speaker 2: babies and she would have less attention and I would
Speaker 2: look different, And instead she completely accepted me. And would say, Oh,
Speaker 2: it's okay, mama. I see your trying, mama, See your
Speaker 2: mouth's going up a little. You know, she was really
Speaker 2: completely accepting. And it's one thing I've reflected on through
Speaker 2: this whole process is that we think so much about
Speaker 2: the unconditional love parents have for children, but really it's
Speaker 2: extraordinary that it can go in the other direction too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you learn from that period of time
Speaker 1: about how important it is to facially emote? I mean,
Speaker 1: it is something we all take for granted, and in
Speaker 1: this moment, I'm just imagining being denied that.
Speaker 2: In my worst moments, it felt like that's what it
Speaker 2: was to be human, and I was a ghost. In
Speaker 2: my best moments or my more resilient moments, I would think, well,
Speaker 2: I'm compensating. Yeah, wow, it strikes at the level of
Speaker 2: the soul. I think at the part of the soul
Speaker 2: that's relational. You know, they say like, oh, the eyes
Speaker 2: or the window of the soul. The face is the
Speaker 2: window to the soul. I mean, you look at what
Speaker 2: someone's emoting and you think you can read it. It's
Speaker 2: a big deal. So to lose part of that social
Speaker 2: expression can be really nightmarish and Just for an example,
Speaker 2: I had a play opening at a church in Brooklyn,
Speaker 2: and my mom came with me and we were watching,
Speaker 2: and she kept looking over at me worried, and finally
Speaker 2: she whispered, what's wrong? Are you not pleased? And I
Speaker 2: was like, Mom, I can't smile. I'm pleased. And it
Speaker 2: was disturbing to me that even my own mother couldn't
Speaker 2: read my emotions.
Speaker 1: Was what was it like with your husband? I mean,
Speaker 1: you had that vulnerable moment with him in the hospital
Speaker 1: where you were afraid of being unattractive to him, and
Speaker 1: you know he reassured you. But did you find your
Speaker 1: self changing in any way in terms of how you
Speaker 1: interacted with him in those early weeks and months.
Speaker 2: I think I really retreated. In general. I was tired,
Speaker 2: so there was reason for it, but I think I
Speaker 2: retreated from family festivities and got quite depressed, and so
Speaker 2: I felt like the version of a partner he had
Speaker 2: was I felt inadequate in that way too, and like
Speaker 2: I wasn't giving enough. And it took me a couple
Speaker 2: of years to realize, oh, I really had a full blown,
Speaker 2: like postpartum depression.
Speaker 1: Would you look to him for reassurance or did you
Speaker 1: were you just more avoidant.
Speaker 2: I think I was more avoidant in general, and I
Speaker 2: didn't want my bell's palsy to be something that was
Speaker 2: bothering me. It didn't correspond to my ethic of you know,
Speaker 2: human the human good, like it shouldn't matter, like beauty
Speaker 2: shouldn't matter, or symmetry shouldn't matter. So of course it
Speaker 2: didn't bother me. So I just I pretended it was
Speaker 2: not bothering me, and I pushed forward. But I think
Speaker 2: it was clearly bothering me.
Speaker 1: It's such a relatable feeling an irrational or intellectual level.
Speaker 1: If we interrogate that emotional reaction, might think, no, that's
Speaker 1: not how I really feel. That wouldn't be my top concern.
Speaker 1: But it feels irresistible to have those sorts of thoughts.
Speaker 2: I love what you say about it being irresistible. It's visceral,
Speaker 2: and I think, as a writer and a feminist and
Speaker 2: someone who doesn't put a lot of stock and physical
Speaker 2: beauty certainly as a part of character, I think there
Speaker 2: was another part of me that really denied the reality
Speaker 2: of those irresistible thoughts because they weren't rational, because I
Speaker 2: didn't believe them, and because I didn't believe my own thoughts.
Speaker 2: I dismissed them. But the longer and longer the Bell's
Speaker 2: palsy went on, it became harder and harder to discount
Speaker 2: my own experience of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we don't believe them because they don't align
Speaker 1: with how we prefer to see the world, how we
Speaker 1: ought to see the world right, if we design the
Speaker 1: moral code or the values code right for the universe.
Speaker 1: And I mean, it's so interesting you share this, Sarah,
Speaker 1: because one of the things that I've learned from all
Speaker 1: the conversations I've had on this show is how much
Speaker 1: these moments of change can reveal to us about who
Speaker 1: we are and the assumptions we've been laboring under that
Speaker 1: might not have been visible to us prior. Yes, you know,
Speaker 1: the doctor tells you, okay, the majority of people recover
Speaker 1: without any intervention, right without any medical treatment, and so
Speaker 1: the odds were in your favor. And I'm curious to
Speaker 1: know when the weeks and months passed and you weren't
Speaker 1: showing progress what that felt like for you.
Speaker 2: It was kind of like a slow nightmare, you know,
Speaker 2: because every day you think, oh, surely tomorrow I'll be better,
Speaker 2: and I would dream of being better. At night, I
Speaker 2: would dream that my face was quote unquote normal or
Speaker 2: back to the way it was, and I'd wake up
Speaker 2: and there'd be no change. I eventually went back to
Speaker 2: the neurologist, I think when it had been maybe six months,
Speaker 2: and I really should have been better by then, you know,
Speaker 2: if I was to get better, I should have been
Speaker 2: better by then. And he was quite oddly punitive. I
Speaker 2: felt and sort of looked at me and said, God,
Speaker 2: you're not better at all. Oh gosh. And he said, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's nothing you can do except experimental neurosurgery. That's it.
Speaker 2: And he gave me the name of an experimental neurosurgeon
Speaker 2: at NYU. And they do these like grafts, like take
Speaker 2: a little bit of your thigh and stick it in
Speaker 2: your face and try to graph the nerve actora. It's
Speaker 2: really amazing work that they can do. But I felt
Speaker 2: like being a writer and depending so much on my brain.
Speaker 2: The compound noun experimental and neurosurgery, I just didn't want
Speaker 2: anything to do with those two words mixed together. But yeah,
Speaker 2: emotionally the experience of just being in that stasis, I
Speaker 2: just felt frozen.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with a slight change
Speaker 1: of plans. Sarah Rule was in her mid thirties when
Speaker 1: she developed Bell's palsy and the left side of her
Speaker 1: face became paralyzed. She details her experience with the condition
Speaker 1: in a heartfelt, an often funny memoir called Smile. I
Speaker 1: was curious to know more about how Sarah coped day
Speaker 1: to day, given that she was showing little improvement. I
Speaker 1: also wanted to hear if her relationship with her condition
Speaker 1: changed over the years. There's this moment in your book
Speaker 1: where I found myself laughing. You were trying to find
Speaker 1: a way forward and to keep your spirits and you're
Speaker 1: morale high, and you read this Buddhist book about anger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was. You know, I would try
Speaker 2: to meditate, I would try to read inspiring books. So
Speaker 2: this was by Tik Nahan, who I love. And I
Speaker 2: got to a part where it's you know, whatever you're
Speaker 2: going through, you can always smile. So as you meditate,
Speaker 2: sit and smile and think of your smile, and think
Speaker 2: of the beauty of your smile, and how you can
Speaker 2: always give someone else the beauty of your smile. And
Speaker 2: I just thought, oh my god, I can't. I actually
Speaker 2: I can't, and I think I threw the book across
Speaker 2: the room.
Speaker 1: It's like, uh, dude, I also can't do that very
Speaker 1: basic thing you're telling me that I should do. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I love that. Did you find some solace
Speaker 1: anywhere in terms of like you say in your book
Speaker 1: that you tend to solve problems by reading books, right,
Speaker 1: and so I do wonder if there was any wisdom
Speaker 1: that you were accruing along the way that helped you
Speaker 1: keep morel high.
Speaker 2: I was reading tons of books about Tibetan Buddhism and dharma,
Speaker 2: and I do think they helped me. But I think
Speaker 2: I needed people, and I think I didn't understand that.
Speaker 2: It's such a simple thing. Why I didn't understand that
Speaker 2: is puzzling to me now. But writers can be funny creatures.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that you'd been isolating more generally from
Speaker 1: other people. Tell me more about that.
Speaker 2: I don't think it was terribly conscious. But you know,
Speaker 2: my work is demanding, so I would throw myself into
Speaker 2: my work, and my kids were demanding, so I threw
Speaker 2: myself into that, and I think I didn't I certainly
Speaker 2: didn't want to meet new people very often, but I
Speaker 2: think with old friends, I did see them, but they
Speaker 2: had no idea what my internal state was. And that's
Speaker 2: how I wanted it, because I didn't want them worrying
Speaker 2: about me. I didn't want them to know what I
Speaker 2: was feeling. I was sort of stoic about the whole thing.
Speaker 2: And so when I was writing the book, I finally
Speaker 2: had the courage to reach out to this other writer,
Speaker 2: Jonathan cawb, who'd written a New Yorker piece about having
Speaker 2: Bell's palsy, and under the pretext of doing research, I said,
Speaker 2: let's have lunch. And meeting Jonathan and talking about our
Speaker 2: experience and also just seeing each other's faces while we
Speaker 2: were eating and the challenges we were both navigating was
Speaker 2: more healing to me than reading fifty books. He would laugh,
Speaker 2: but he would turn away from me when he laughed
Speaker 2: because he didn't want to look asymmetrical when he laughed.
Speaker 2: I knew that because I did that. And when a
Speaker 2: dumpling exploded in his mouth because it can be hard
Speaker 2: to eat with Bell's palsy, he excused himself and used
Speaker 2: a napkin, and I knew that because those things had
Speaker 2: happened to me, and it was sort of the fact
Speaker 2: of mirroring each other and knowing what it felt like
Speaker 2: to eat with a stranger under those conditions, and I
Speaker 2: felt such compassion for him, and in feeling compassion for him,
Speaker 2: I allowed some compassion and for myself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, help unpack for me, Sarah, You're relationship with recovery
Speaker 1: in the early years, you were very non interventionist, right,
Speaker 1: so you weren't aggressive about treatment in the way that
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people would have been.
Speaker 1: We all have different instincts when it comes to how
Speaker 1: we try and exert control when we don't feel like
Speaker 1: we have a grip of the steering wheel. And what's
Speaker 1: interesting to me about your story is that, despite feeling
Speaker 1: very frustrated with the fact that you weren't seeing progress,
Speaker 1: the manifestation of that was not let me keep googling,
Speaker 1: let me keep seeing doctors. I mean, you didn't even
Speaker 1: google your condition for the first two years, which is
Speaker 1: just wild to me. So help me understand that.
Speaker 2: Well, for one thing, I think I was afraid that
Speaker 2: if I googled it, it would just tell me you're
Speaker 2: never getting better. Like, if you don't see improvement within
Speaker 2: six months, you'll never get better, and I didn't want
Speaker 2: to see that answer. I come from a medical family.
Speaker 2: My grandfather was a doctor, my sister's a doctor, my
Speaker 2: uncle's aor my husband's a doctor. So I think I
Speaker 2: have an implicit trust in doctors. So when the neurologist
Speaker 2: I saw said the one thing I can do is
Speaker 2: experimental neurosurgery, and I don't want to do that, so
Speaker 2: I guess there's nothing else to do. I just accepted it.
Speaker 2: I did go to acupuncture, and that gave me a
Speaker 2: lot of relief. I did get my ability to blink back,
Speaker 2: and I did eventually get second opinions from different neurologists.
Speaker 2: But I think because I'd been told that it was
Speaker 2: mysterious and some people recovered and some didn't in a
Speaker 2: really bizarre, fairy tale way, I thought it was my
Speaker 2: fault that I wasn't getting better. I felt like a
Speaker 2: bad patient. I'd failed to get better.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that propensity for self blame is so characteristic
Speaker 1: of people who are dealing with chronic conditions, and I
Speaker 1: have to imagine women dealing with chronic conditions. Was there
Speaker 1: anything you found that helped to counteract that self blame?
Speaker 2: I think, in the end, accepting that something hard had
Speaker 2: happened to me was very helpful, as opposed to trivializing it.
Speaker 2: Saying that sucked or that sucks bluntly was very helpful.
Speaker 2: I remember I have an old friend who's a pediatrician
Speaker 2: who said something like, it's disappointing, isn't it what happened
Speaker 2: to you? She said, it's not a tragedy, but it
Speaker 2: must be really disappointing. I said, it is. It's really disappointing,
Speaker 2: and I felt really understood when she said that to me.
Speaker 2: She saw a couple things about me. She saw that
Speaker 2: I was disappointed. She also saw that I know something
Speaker 2: about the scale of tragedy, and she knows that I
Speaker 2: would never want to winge on about something that wasn't
Speaker 2: actually about the loss of life. For example, I mean,
Speaker 2: I lost my dad to cancer when I was twenty,
Speaker 2: and so chronic disease for me, it's like knowing you're
Speaker 2: not going to die from it is some comfort.
Speaker 1: Is there a moment that you remember where you for
Speaker 1: the first time felt comfortable with the acceptance of present
Speaker 1: day self versus trying to get the full function back.
Speaker 2: Well, I got enough of my smile back at a
Speaker 2: point that I felt I could communicate my social self
Speaker 2: to people. I could let people know I was smiling
Speaker 2: at them. That was huge, and in many ways that
Speaker 2: felt like enough. It wasn't a smile with teeth, it
Speaker 2: wasn't a glamorous smile, but it was enough to show
Speaker 2: people that I was communicating happiness. That was such a
Speaker 2: huge accomplishment In a way, I remember smiling at strangers
Speaker 2: for the first time and having them smile back at me,
Speaker 2: and having that call and response in a kind of
Speaker 2: natural way. Naturals may be the wrong word, a spontaneous way,
Speaker 2: you know, because before that I would think about every
Speaker 2: micro interaction where someone tried to smile at me and
Speaker 2: I felt I couldn't smile back. So when I could
Speaker 2: do that, that really did feel like enough to me,
Speaker 2: like enough to proceed, enough to go on. MM.
Speaker 1: In the decade plus that's past since your original diagnosis
Speaker 1: of Bell's palsy, you have less paralysis in the left
Speaker 1: side of your face, but you haven't regained full control right.
Speaker 1: There is some paralysis, and I'm curious if you can
Speaker 1: reflect on what aspect so that you still find difficult,
Speaker 1: if at all.
Speaker 2: I don't love being photographed, but beyond that, I don't
Speaker 2: think about it all that much anymore. There are moments
Speaker 2: where I would love to flash a big toothy smile
Speaker 2: at someone, you know, either to mirror their smile or
Speaker 2: just to express that deep joy. And sometimes I find
Speaker 2: that annoying. But I feel like I'm onto other things,
Speaker 2: you know. And I think there was a long time
Speaker 2: where I was stuck in a cul de sac around this,
Speaker 2: really stuck in a kind of despair shame spiral. And
Speaker 2: I feel like I've shot myself out of that little
Speaker 2: called a sack. I've proceeded onto new terrain.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's just Is it just the passage
Speaker 1: of time that's responsible for ejecting you from the spiral?
Speaker 2: I think it was the writing process that ejected me.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because there was a point where I
Speaker 2: didn't want to write about it. I thought, oh ugh, yuck,
Speaker 2: I'm a writer. I don't write about my body. Who cares,
Speaker 2: you know? And I, you know, with encouragement and support,
Speaker 2: it turned out I had plenty to say about it,
Speaker 2: and I think making sense of what happened to me
Speaker 2: really helped me let it go. It was also because
Speaker 2: I spoke about my experience. It gave permission for others
Speaker 2: to ask me about it, not only strangers who had
Speaker 2: had Bell's palsy, but family who had said, I didn't
Speaker 2: know you were experiencing that. I'm so sorry, do you
Speaker 2: want to talk about it? It was I think I
Speaker 2: had given off a lack of permission to talk about
Speaker 2: my face, which makes sense because it's impolite to ask people.
Speaker 2: You know, in general, we don't go around saying, oh,
Speaker 2: it looks like you have facial paralysis. Do you want
Speaker 2: to talk about it? In the same way that we
Speaker 2: wouldn't say, like, oh, you have something in your teeth,
Speaker 2: you have something like unless there's a real intimacy, you
Speaker 2: don't mention her. Of course, so it became an invitation
Speaker 2: to dialogue that I think was healing. Even with my kids.
Speaker 2: My daughter had been Anna had been overhearing me talking
Speaker 2: to my editor about the book and a little bit
Speaker 2: she was overhearing about some depression I'd had as a
Speaker 2: result of the Bell's palsy, And afterwards I said, oh, sorry, Anne,
Speaker 2: I I was that okay for you to hear? And
Speaker 2: she said, you know how I've always thought of your face,
Speaker 2: And I said, no, how and she said, I've always
Speaker 2: thought of it kind of like a house. Your face
Speaker 2: was this beautiful house, and the left side fell down
Speaker 2: one day, and you kept trying to build it up,
Speaker 2: brick by brick. You kept try and you couldn't quite.
Speaker 2: But when I look at your face, all I see
Speaker 2: is my home. I don't see a broken house. And
Speaker 2: I just thought, Wow, if it took me writing that
Speaker 2: whole book to hear Anna reflect that back to me,
Speaker 2: you know, it would have been worth it.
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks so much for listening. Join me next week
Speaker 1: when I talk with writer Jennifer Ramalini. For so long,
Speaker 1: Jennifer prided herself on her work ethic, climbing to the
Speaker 1: top of every corporate ladder and working herself to the bone,
Speaker 1: But after years of burning herself out, she realized her
Speaker 1: ambition had turned toxic.
Speaker 3: I've really looked to the outside world like I had everything,
Speaker 3: but I was already at the top of that going wait,
Speaker 3: is this it? Because I had not been building my
Speaker 3: personal and life resume at the same pace that I
Speaker 3: had been building my professional resume, so my life was
Speaker 3: completely unbalanced.
Speaker 1: That's next week on a slight change of plans, A
Speaker 1: slight change of Plans is created, written, and executive produced
Speaker 1: by me Maya Schunker. The Slight Change family includes our
Speaker 1: showrunner Tyler Green, our senior producer Kate Parkinson Morgan, our
Speaker 1: producer Brianna Garrett, and our engineer Eric Iwuang. Louis Gara
Speaker 1: wrote our delightful theme song and Ginger Smith helped arrange
Speaker 1: the vocals. A Slight Change of Plans is a production
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries, so a big thanks to everyone there,
Speaker 1: and of course a very special thanks to Jimmy Lee.
Speaker 1: You can follow A Slight Change of Plans on Instagram
Speaker 1: at doctor Maya Schunker. See you next week.