WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 080622 To Whom are Police Accountable? (Part 1) 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.760 Welcome to another episode of Civic ciche per I'm your host, rams' jah, 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.960 he is jah, I am q Ward. You are listening 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.720 to Civic Sciphon. Yes, indeed, got a lot in store 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.400 for you today. Be sure to stick around for it all. 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:16.880 Because we are reverting to type. We've got a lot 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:22.680 of stuff to talk about with respect to police violence 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:27.080 and injustice per usual. As I mentioned reverting to type, 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:32.159 We're gonna share a story about a black man in uniform, 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:37.440 an officer, military officer, who was engaged by the police 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.479 in pepper spray and so forth and so on, and 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.080 we're gonna talk you through what that experience is like 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:51.360 for black people and why we fight so hard on 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:56.440 that battle front. We're also gonna take a look at 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.360 the origins of the protect and serve model that is 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:04.759 associated with police departments around the country and really find 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:08.080 out what that means and who that means, what it 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:13.280 means too. We're also going to take some time to 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.920 discuss the repercussions that are in place for police officers 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.480 who violate overstep. All these sorts of things plenty to 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.200 stick around for, but it's not all heavy stuff. We 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:25.800 will be taking a moment to talk about the recently 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:30.039 past Bill Russell, who of course is a famous NBA 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:34.640 athlete but also a civil rights activist, and we feel 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.480 like story deserves to be told, so Q was going 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:39.160 to share more with that when we get to the 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.440 way Black History Fact. We're also going to talk about 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.399 for our becoming a better ally segment, ways that you 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:50.240 can support black businesses because this month is Black Business Month, 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.120 So again, a lot to stick around for and we're 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:55.919 going to need you to help us peel back these layers. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:58.559 But first, let's do like we always do and start 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.680 off on a positive note, shall we? That we shall? 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:08.280 So it might not sound so positive, but Michelle Nichols 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.399 recently passed away. She's a beloved actor, singer, and dancer 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:18.040 whose career spanned six decades. She passed away recently at 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.160 the age of eighty nine, and she will be best 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:26.400 remembered for her trailblazing role as Lieutenant Nyota Uhura on 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.120 the original Star Trek TV series, which aired from nineteen 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.360 sixty six to sixty nine. Her performance as Uhura a 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.520 communications officer, and she was the fourth highest ranking member 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.600 of the USS enterprise, and that was a landmark moment 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.080 for representation in pop culture, marking one of the first 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.600 times in American history that a black woman appeared on 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:46.960 television in a leading role. I'm gonna stop right here 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.480 for a second because and real quick shout out to 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:54.200 a hip hop with the media for sponsoring this segment 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:58.639 for us today. And the story comes from blavity prior 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.360 to her being on Star Trek, which I'm a big 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.320 tricky I think I mentioned that one time on the 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.560 show before. Hate me if you will, but I love 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.760 Star Trek always have. It's a perfect world, and that's 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.080 what I imagine that we all can aspire to that anyway. 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.760 Prior to her being in that position on television, black 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:22.360 women were oftentimes maids, secondary characters, you know, they weren't 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:27.080 part of a primary cast on television. She actually is 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.960 credited with William Shatner for sharing the first interracial kiss 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.120 on television. So I know that we're just kind of 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.360 trying to give her her credit, but imagine what it 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.040 took for her to what she had to go through 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.280 in order to accomplish these things, and what she had 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.320 to suffer through as a result of accomplishing them. So 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.760 we wanted to take a moment to highlight the ebony 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.120 excellence that is the entire story of the life of 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.840 Michelle Nichols. This is the place where we get to 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.920 do it. And I'm not just a trekky. I'm a 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.160 fan of black girl men and she exemplifies that. Now 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:13.400 let's talk about police again. I mean, it's a bit. 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.120 It's a big part of our lives. I know, I 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.960 know it's common motif around here, but it's a big 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.880 part of our lives. And you know, there's some people 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:24.880 that think that, you know, maybe we make a mountain 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.320 out of a mole hill. You know, if you look 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.320 at the amount of black people that exist versus the 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:32.120 amount of black people that are engaged by the police, 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.800 you might think that we're imagining a problem and you're wrong. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:46.160 But if you were right, let's have a thought experiment. Okay, now, Q, 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:53.280 I want you to answer this question best you can 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:58.640 for our listeners. What does it feel like to see 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.359 police as a black person. 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:17.320 The setting matters, but oftentimes terrifying, especially if behind the 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:24.880 will of a car. Moreover, on a dark highway in Mississippi. 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:31.359 That's it, but it could be just as terrifying on 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:38.400 university right here, in Arizona. Sure, you have to process 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.640 so many things. Right, It's never benign. I'll say that 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.320 it's never a benign interaction. 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.920 It's not. It's never. Oh they're the cops. 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.720 Sometimes it's an exercise, And Okay, how can I make 0:05:52.800 --> 0:06:01.760 this interaction as a little between me and this officer 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:06.080 as possible? Is there a possibility that I can avoid 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:10.560 the interaction altogether? And if the lights just so happened 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.200 to come on behind you, Now there's a whole different 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.479 set of things that you have to process in order 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.760 to ensure that you make it home, or that you 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.200 survive and come out the other side of that interaction, 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:29.200 you know, at least physically unscathed. I want to add 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.279 something to that before we get into the story that 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.280 sort of prompted these questions. I'm going to share something 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.040 that I'm going to be very vulnerable, very honest with you. 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.119 I was three years old. I was with my father 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:52.520 and we were visiting one of my father's friends. This woman, 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.680 her name was Melody. She had a dog. The dog's 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.240 name was Josh. I remember this at three years old 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:02.359 because of the trauma associated with this man. My father 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.760 and Melody were having a conversation in the other room, 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.800 and I was in the living room with Josh sitting 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:15.160 in front of the fireplace. So as you do, I 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.720 went and sat with Josh and I began to pet him. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.360 It's what you do with a dog. I was not aggressive. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:23.160 I wasn't you know. 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:29.080 That's never been my nature in petting Josh. He turned 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.240 and he bit my three year old arm. And three 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.440 ye old's arms are very little, right, and then when 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.880 he let go, I had this deep socket, a puncture 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:41.840 into my arm, and I remember it was a deep, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.640 dark puncture, and then blood started to come out of 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:46.760 my arm. And I'm three, so I get to cry. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:51.960 I was screaming, and my dad came and took care 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:53.840 of it. I'll I'll spare you all the details, but 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:55.320 he took care of me, and he took care of 0:07:55.640 --> 0:08:04.560 the situation. That very much shaped the way that I 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.760 felt about dogs for the rest of my life. The people, I. 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:11.080 Wish our listeners knew you better, so they knew how 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:15.640 deep and how real that trauma and that that experience 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:23.480 has actually not it's not in a way that's. 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.000 It's not to be made light. It had a real effect. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:30.200 I wish people could could experience how you interact with 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:35.280 and you know, even your availability to the prospect of 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.680 a dog in your space, even if it's me, And 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:40.840 if you listen to this show enough, you at least 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.400 know how he feels about me. Doesn't matter. Q's dog 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.280 is not welcomed either now. 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:58.920 That trauma, it has been a huge source of embarrassment 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.760 for me. Once you get to be we'll call it 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:09.600 maybe thirteen fourteen. You have an adultish sized body and 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:14.360 you no longer should be concerned about a Chihuahua or 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:18.400 a shitzu or one of those tiny dogs. And my 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:23.800 brain will not let me let that go. And I 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.640 wish I could. I wish I like it. It's you know, 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.720 imagine going to a party with your friends and there's 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.040 a dog there and you're like, you know, I'm just 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.880 go home. And everybody's always scared of the I'm not 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:35.160 scared of that. I just don't want to be around it. 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.560 I they don't speak English, I don't know what they're thinking. 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:39.240 They plottin on me, you know what I'm saying, and 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:40.760 your brain won't let you go. It's like you're a 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:46.800 prisoner of this, you know. And fear is different. I know, fear. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.040 You know what I'm saying, but it's for most people 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.960 that's the only word that they'll understand. So I'll let 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.200 you have it. Fear. I fought against that word for 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.800 many years because I know that physically I could. I 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:01.000 need it to. It was me. If it came down 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.280 to life and death being a dog, I know I'd 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.880 be okay. So that's not fear. It's more concern because 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:13.880 people love their dogs and I don't. So here I am, 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:20.800 I'm thirty nine years old. I'm a grown man, real grown. 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:28.319 When I see a dog, I know it's there, it's 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.960 still with me. It doesn't look me right. I'm well 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.520 aware and I'm not running away from a dog, you know, 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:36.839 none of that sort of stuff. 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.480 But I'm not comfortable if it's a dog there. Well, 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.680 you have to understand that. Josh taught you that you 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.160 need to be aware. Dogs are capable of doing when 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.200 you're doing nothing wrong. Okay, thank you for that. Que 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:53.040 So watch this. One time when I was little. I've 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:54.560 shared this on the show before. One time when I 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:59.280 was little, I was in Compton, California, and I saw 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.239 the police pull up a car at a stoplight. 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.000 The car did not proceed through the intercession. The police 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:06.320 were right behind me. He was at a red light. 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.280 We were in the car next to him. The police 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.760 took the man out of his car and they banged 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:14.920 his head into the door of the car, and the 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.880 door of the car dident it in. It was a 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:22.640 black man. The police banged his head into the side 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.760 of the car and he was just screaming and they 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:31.480 were just hurting him. And you know, the car we 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.959 were in, the woman that was driving, she just sped off. 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:35.560 I don't remember her name. I was very little at 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:37.679 the time, but I remember seeing that man's head get 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.240 pushed into the door of the car and the dentt 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.680 And this was in the eighties, so they want no 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.120 plastic doors. It was an eighties car, you know, like 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:54.440 box Chevy type cars. So that coupled with every other 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.600 traumatic event that you know to be true of the 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.760 LAPD very much shape of my view of police now. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:08.120 When I see police officers, it's very similar. I'm not 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.079 afraid of the police in the same way I'm not 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.680 afraid of a dog. I get it. You know, I've 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:19.120 seen the rhythms, and I've seen enough dogs that didn't 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.000 bite me that didn't. They weren't concerned to know that 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.360 not all dogs are that way. But I've seen and 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.120 the trauma, and I will one thing that we cannot 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.960 divorce from our narrative is that black people are very 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.120 much a traumatized people in this country, especially by the police, 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:40.079 especially by the police. Right the time you hear black 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.520 mothers wailing or whatever, it's oftentimes nine out of ten, 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.280 I guess at the hands of the criminal justice system 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.160 doing something unfair, what they believe to be unfair. I 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.560 don't want to I don't want to try to paint 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:59.760 a picture that is not entirely accurate. But then again 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:04.760 that's not possible. So anyway, so when I see police officers, 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:10.640 it's kind of like the same physical response to seeing 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:12.840 a dog, like a loose dog with no chain and 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:14.840 he's just walking down the street, and it's like, well, 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:16.920 you're over there. Hopefully he don't come over here, because 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.760 we come over here. I'm going to be afraid, right 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.599 for leaning going with that fear thing. And you know, 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.600 what do you do if you're Ramses and you see 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:30.640 a dog and that dog starts running at you, you 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:35.640 stand there because if you're Ramses, let me be the 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:37.839 one to tell you you don't stand there. I am 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.800 outro like the end of your CD. You know what 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:45.560 I'm saying, And my only other option is to fight, 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:50.560 because in that moment, that paralytic fear, that that fear, 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:57.240 that gripping fear, it overwhelms reason, logic, whatever, right. So 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.240 this is why I always try to leave a little 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.720 bit of we'll call it grace, a little bit of 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.640 space in the narrative for people that run from the police, 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.440 because if you are traumatized by the police, there is 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:16.200 a limbic reaction. I mean, I've experienced when it comes 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.240 to you know, something very somilar like I'm out. I 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:19.280 don't want to die today. 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.640 But even if you're not traumatized, like you don't have 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:27.120 to have gotten bit by a dog to run away 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.160 from a dog that's running toward you. You were saying teeth. 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.200 They have teeth and claw and they're barking and they're 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.760 aggressive and they're growling and running towards you. And I 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.600 just have to let you listener know, I don't care 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.520 what dog you have. They don't stand a chance. They're 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:46.280 not catching me. Ever, like I'll run into your dog, 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.480 can't anymore I know this from experience. I ran out 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:55.720 of a town before with my cousins. Dogs started chasing us. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.920 We started running. I don't know how long this will, 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.640 but I was still running, and neither was the dog 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.000 or my cousins, just me. 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:06.360 I didn't know. 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:08.000 I think I ran off of an army base, like 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:09.880 I didn't know where I was anymore. When I stopped running, 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.200 somebody had to come find me. Your dog's not catching me, 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:17.160 fam all of you, right, and the same with the police. 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.440 You don't have to have had the bad experience. There's 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:24.280 someone with a gun coming after you, and you're afraid, 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.560 so you run. That is a very very natural response, 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.000 thank you. It's not at Men have to be based 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:31.920 in trauma, and then you throw the trauma on top 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.560 of it and it's like, okay, what are we talking about? 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.040 People? Of course they ran. Yeah. And that's the point 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:42.800 I'm making, is that that that trauma trigger overwhelms reason 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:47.000 one of the time. I know that from experience, because 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.160 it could be the tiniest, most insignificant dog, provided that 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.320 dog is postured in a certain way looking at me, 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.680 if there's a growl, if there's anything, it's immediately fight 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.360 or flight. Right, So I want you to know this 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.240 because we're going to share a little bit of a 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.160 story and then we're going to ask some more questions. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.200 I'm gonna read this, so this is a current news 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:11.840 story that you know, Maggie be Known wanted us to 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.520 discuss today. Maggie Beino and our producer. All right. Another 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.600 cop leaves court with no charges after assaulting a black 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.160 person who happened to be an army lieutenant. This comes 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.400 from the Associated Press, so I'll read it. No charges 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.760 for officer who pepper sprayed army lieutenant in Norfolk, Virginia. 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.680 A former police officer in Virginia should not be criminally charged, 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.560 but should be investigated for potential civil rights violations after 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.760 he pepper sprayed, struck, and handcuffed a black US Army 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.280 lieutenant during a twenty twenty traffic stop. A special prosecutor 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:47.520 prosecutor has determined the prosecutor's findings are the latest fallout 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.640 from a confrontation involving two involving two police officers and 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.680 a uniformed military officer that drew outrage and national attention 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.880 to the small town of Windsor, southeast of Richmond. The 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.920 man who was pulled over karn Nazario was never charged. 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.320 Video of the December twenty twenty traffic stop surfaced in 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:09.000 April twenty twenty one after Nzario sued in federal court 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.760 alleging that his constitutional rights were violated. You remember we 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:13.600 talked about this story would happened? Right? I do? 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.600 And the language in the article is so interesting. A 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:22.200 police officer in Virginia should not be criminally charged. It's 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.320 such an interesting way to word that, like will not. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.119 I get it that judge did not decide that this 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:31.119 person would be charged. Should not is a really really 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:38.359 colorfully lenient way to frame that, like he shouldn't be 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:40.679 And then it goes on to say that he struck 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.040 and pepper sprayed the officer, Like wow. 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.119 And the officer was never criminally charged. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.080 Yeah, so I'm glad you guys don't think that the 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:48.679 officer should be charged. 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.360 And I don't think that's from the ap that might 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:55.919 be from the court. Okay, So let's talk about this 0:17:55.960 --> 0:18:01.000 for a second. If I remember correctly from the first 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:05.520 time we talked about this, the officer, the military officer, 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:12.600 Coron Nazario, he had just purchased a new SUV and 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.600 he had the paper tag in the window when you 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.960 buy a new vehicle. Right, So, when you have the 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.080 paper tag on a new car, if it has tenanted windows, 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.639 like most subs do, it might be difficult to see that, 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:31.640 especially at night. Right, the police try to pull him over, 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:36.840 he's like in the sticks in you know, Virginia somewhere, 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.120 and he's like, Nahpam, I'm not about to get pulled 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.320 over on the side of the road. Right. So he 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.400 continues to drive and pulls over at a place where 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.879 he feels safe. This is a gas station, Maggie, is 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.639 that right? Okay, that's right. So he pulls over to 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.520 gas station because there's light there and he feels like 0:18:55.600 --> 0:19:02.879 that gives him the best possible chance of having a 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:07.639 positive outcome. While interacting with the police. They can see everything. 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.000 They don't have to be afraid of anything. There's lights here, 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.320 you don't have to, you know, approach with the same 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.120 sort of paranoia that you do, you know, that sort 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.480 of stuff, which I totally understand. What happens is the 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.280 police feel like, even though he's not speeding away, I 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.000 don't remember that being a part of that story, the 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:30.000 police feel like, since he didn't pull over immediately that 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:35.240 they need to engage and be overly aggressive. This is 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:36.959 something that happened to me. I got pulled over by 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:41.359 the airport one time, and I was on the freeway 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.240 and I couldn't pull all the way over because it 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.320 would have taken me to another freeway, which I wouldn't 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:47.560 have known how to drive. So I had to wait 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:52.080 until the ramp was done and then pull over. And 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.720 the police were so angry. They pulled me out of 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.000 the car. They thought I was on drugs. I was like, 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.080 I've never done a drug. I've never drank alcohol. They 0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.800 didn't believe anything I had to say. They're like, is 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.760 that exactly what a meth head would say? Really? Okay, 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:08.880 anyway back to Coronasario. So he's at this now illuminated 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:11.159 gas station and you know the rest of the story. 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:15.880 He's struck, pepper, sprayed, handcuffed, all these things, and then 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:17.960 they found out, oh, he does have a license plate. 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:25.679 Oops are bad? Okay, all right, I'll finish reading this 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:27.439 just so we can get back to it. So the 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.399 images sparked outrage and served as a grim reminder to 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.600 many black Americans that a military uniform doesn't necessarily protect 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:40.440 against mistreatment by police. Neither does a suit a business suit, 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:43.600 Neither does a tuxi none of that stuff, right. 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:49.119 Neither does in some cases a police uniform. As we 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:53.520 saw an officer in the news recently for choking a 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:55.000 fellow office a fellow officer. 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:11.200 Now there's there's something here, you know, people that don't 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:20.000 understand the reality of our interactions with the criminal justice system. 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:27.639 And obviously the forward facing component is the police. People 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:29.439 that don't understand, well, why didn't you run? If you 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:31.399 didn't have anything to hide, he wouldn't have run. You know, 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.320 this sort of narrative that is very harmful because it 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:41.480 doesn't it assumes a lot. And as we've established in 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:47.960 this conversation just you know on this episode that there's 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.440 a lot that you that that assumption doesn't take into account. 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.040 It doesn't even take into account the traumas, the triggers, 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.800 you know, or really indeed the reality of the situation, 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.240 because you can't out, you can, you know, be Unfortunately 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.200 he didn't get shot and die. He had the opportunity 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:06.560 to sue. Obviously there's no justice there, but at least 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.879 he brought some attention to it, and that allows us 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:11.200 to tell these stories. This is not the only person 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.880 that this sort of thing happens too. You know, once 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.240 upon a time, as I mentioned, I literally saw with 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:18.800 my own eyes police pull a man out of his 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:23.080 car and they handcuffed him. He was sitting on the 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.560 side in the middle of the street, and they took 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:27.600 his head and they banged it into the door and 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:30.399 the left a big dan. Now, he wasn't running anywhere, 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:32.760 he was sitting on the ground, he wasn't fighting anybody 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:34.919 because his hands are behind his back, handcuffed, and they 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:38.080 still took his head and smashed it into the car. 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.199 So that sort of thing doesn't make you feel like, 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.040 you know what, police are our friends. Now, I do 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:48.280 want to say this because I have to police oftentimes. 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:53.840 You know, I have to be fair. I go on walks, 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:56.120 you know, I'm trying to keep my heart healthy as 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:59.119 I enter into this next phase of my life and 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:03.040 I see police where I walk. It's a nice neighborhood, 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:06.440 you know, there's police on patrol and I see them, 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:09.520 and you know, my impulses to just keep my head 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:14.560 down my business. But some of these officers will go 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:18.560 out of their way to try to be kind and 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:21.800 in those moments, I do see the human being and 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:25.160 I do acknowledge that. So there is there's a room 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:26.679 for nuance on both sides, and we do need to 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:30.199 have important conversations. But before we finish this segment, I 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:34.720 do want to mention at least that that model that 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:37.800 we're all used to reading on the side of police cars, 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:40.240 to Protect and Serve, it's just a model. In fact, 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:43.480 i'll read from the official site for the Los Angeles 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:48.600 Police Department. In February of nineteen fifty five, LAPD, through 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.280 their internally produced Beat magazine, held a contest for a 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:54.959 motto for the Police Academy. The conditions of the contest 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:57.439 stated that quote the model should be one that, in 0:23:57.480 --> 0:23:59.359 a few words, would express some or all of the 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:02.960 ideals to which the Los Angeles Police Service is dedicated. 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:06.080 It's possible that the winning model might someday be adopted 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:08.760 as the official model of the department. The winning entry 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:11.400 was the model to Protect and Serve, submitted by Officer 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:16.159 Joseph S. Durobec. To Protect and Serve became the official motto. 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:18.960 The reason I want to suggest that to you is 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:24.320 because that is not an oath, That is not a 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:29.760 commitment to the community. It is something that you might think, 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:36.040 you know is associated with policing, but even the idea 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:39.960 of protecting people is not something that we get to 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:42.320 hold police accountable to. 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:46.320 I mean, it's essentially good marketing, Like a crowdsourced focus 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:48.640 group said, we should say this because it sounds good. 0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:53.199