1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,680
Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel, and today I'm

2
00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 1: talking gen Z versus the old money Rules with Lillian Zang. Okay,

3
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,240
Speaker 1: let's talk about money and the youths today. While a

4
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,199
Speaker 1: lot of personal finance advice is evergreen and helpful to

5
00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,160
Speaker 1: folks of all ages, it's also important to reach people

6
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,120
Speaker 1: where they are and in the way they like to

7
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,280
Speaker 1: consume information. As a middle aged dad, I hope to

8
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 1: stay relevant for a long time to come, but I

9
00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 1: don't think I'll have the same street cred as my

10
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 1: guest today, so I wanted to have Lillian Zang on

11
00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,559
Speaker 1: to talk about the particular hurdles gen Z faces on

12
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,760
Speaker 1: the financial front and the new money rules Lillian thinks

13
00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 1: they should follow. Lillian, I promise not to tell you

14
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: to get off my line. Thank you for joining me

15
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 1: today on the podcast.

16
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,319
Speaker 2: Thank you, Joel. I'm super excited to be here today

17
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 2: and speak to you.

18
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,479
Speaker 1: I'm so glad to have you. First question I ask

19
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,600
Speaker 1: everybody who comes on, is what do you like to

20
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,360
Speaker 1: splurge on? Craft Beer is my big splurge, But hey,

21
00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,880
Speaker 1: it's okay because I'm saving and I'm investing for my future.

22
00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 1: I'm not blowing at all on beer. What's your splurge.

23
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,200
Speaker 2: My splurge personally is definitely on convenience, so things that

24
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 2: make my life easier or help me save time. And

25
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,679
Speaker 2: so one thing is I live near San Francisco, and

26
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,080
Speaker 2: if you know anything, abouts up the hills there are insane,

27
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,840
Speaker 2: so I really try to avoid driving there, So I

28
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 2: really like to splurge on ubers while I'm in the city.

29
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,399
Speaker 2: In terms of other splurges, I like to splurge on

30
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,320
Speaker 2: food meal prep kits to help me not think about

31
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 2: cooking as much, and also economy plus or premium flights

32
00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 2: for me and my family so we can travel more comfortably.

33
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:57,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so meal prep kits is that we tried. I

34
00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,320
Speaker 1: think we got like an intro offer to one, and

35
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 1: we tried it, and the kids kind of rebelled against it.

36
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,160
Speaker 1: And it's probably for the best because it is ultimately

37
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,320
Speaker 1: it's cheaper right to go get source your own food

38
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,080
Speaker 1: to the grocery store and coc your own meals. But

39
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,840
Speaker 1: is it a way to like sneakily avoid going out

40
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,799
Speaker 1: to eat as much which would save you money.

41
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 2: I think that's an interesting question because if you look

42
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,000
Speaker 2: at the meal prep kits, the cost per meal is

43
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,920
Speaker 2: actually not that less than a restaurant meal, Okay. But

44
00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,000
Speaker 2: I also like it because it gives me ideas for

45
00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 2: different recipes that I can perhaps replicate after I try

46
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 2: the meal kit. If I like something from the meal kit,

47
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 2: I can just source those own ingredients afterwards.

48
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,600
Speaker 1: Okay. So that's kind of smart. You're like learning the

49
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,640
Speaker 1: recipe playbook through the meal kits, and then you're like, great,

50
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 1: now I know how to make some extra stuff. It's

51
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,440
Speaker 1: like a tutorial of sorts in the kitchen. I think

52
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 1: of it that way.

53
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,800
Speaker 2: Oh. Yes, definitely gives me some more ideas for what

54
00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,639
Speaker 2: to diversify my palate.

55
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 1: Okay, I like that. I like that all right. Your parents,

56
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 1: by the way, they emigrated to the US from China

57
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,880
Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties. Can you talk to me about

58
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,640
Speaker 1: how that impacted your childhood and then ultimately your views

59
00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 1: on personal finance too.

60
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. So my parents immigrated here in the eighties from

61
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,240
Speaker 2: China during closely after the Cultural Revolution in China, which

62
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,639
Speaker 2: was a very difficult time for a lot of the

63
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,679
Speaker 2: citizens there at the time, and so they felt a

64
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,760
Speaker 2: lot of the post educational effects economic effects, and that's

65
00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,200
Speaker 2: what drove a lot of people to the United States

66
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,920
Speaker 2: at the time, including my parents, and so when they

67
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,280
Speaker 2: came here, they had to start from zero in terms

68
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 2: of their education in this back home didn't count towards

69
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,000
Speaker 2: education received in the US, so they had got to

70
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,000
Speaker 2: college here. They were hustling really hard to get their

71
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 2: degrees here, which is so admirable. And when they had me,

72
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 2: I was born in two thousand. We grew up in

73
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 2: the Midwest and eventually moved to California for more job

74
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 2: opportunities when I was in first grade, and I remember

75
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 2: that it was really difficult for my dad sometimes when

76
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,400
Speaker 2: it came to certain job opportunities because he wasn't a

77
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,440
Speaker 2: native English speakers, So I think it was just a

78
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,839
Speaker 2: bit more friction there in terms of how that shape

79
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,560
Speaker 2: my upbringing with money. I remember my parents didn't really

80
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 2: talk to me about money in terms of educational way,

81
00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,600
Speaker 2: but I heard it through their own conversations and arguments

82
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:37,480
Speaker 2: about money in terms of like a scarcity mindset, the

83
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,880
Speaker 2: fear of it that it could run like run out

84
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,160
Speaker 2: one day, or that the fear we did have enough

85
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:47,640
Speaker 2: accumulated job opportunities, things like that. So even though he

86
00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,279
Speaker 2: didn't really speak about money, in the household directly, I

87
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,560
Speaker 2: had a lot of subconscious thoughts about it that have

88
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 2: stayed with me into my early adulthood. And we could

89
00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,479
Speaker 2: go into more of that later.

90
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's interesting that you say arguments, because in

91
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 1: my house there were arguments about money. Growing up and

92
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,839
Speaker 1: being in the room across from my parents' room, I

93
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:14,159
Speaker 1: heard those many nights. My parents wonderful people. They are.

94
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 1: I admire them more than anyone else I know, But

95
00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,840
Speaker 1: that's still influenced in a meaningful way the way I

96
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 1: think about money and not wanting to have money issues

97
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,440
Speaker 1: to argue about with my future spouse. Do you think

98
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,240
Speaker 1: that that seeped into you as well, hearing kind of

99
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,360
Speaker 1: money fights and money problems and you're like, I don't

100
00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:36,039
Speaker 1: want that to be me.

101
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,160
Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. I remember hearing a lot of arguments when

102
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,479
Speaker 2: I was younger, and even just being more hyper aware

103
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 2: that money was this like important construct in high school

104
00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 2: and in college, and I just remember just thinking like, oh,

105
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,840
Speaker 2: I never want to feel like I'm struggling or have

106
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 2: those types of anxious thoughts into my adulthood. And so,

107
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 2: going back to your point, I think that drove a

108
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,200
Speaker 2: lot of my future career decisions and mindset in college,

109
00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 2: which we can definitely dive deeper into, but definitely influence

110
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,040
Speaker 2: sort of the way that I approached like work and

111
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:13,600
Speaker 2: money growing up.

112
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:20,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, what particular experiences shaped your personal finance philosophy the most? Then,

113
00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,839
Speaker 1: so that maybe sparked a desire to increase your knowledge.

114
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,479
Speaker 1: But then where did you turn right as you're trying

115
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,400
Speaker 1: to figure out because personal finance most of the time

116
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,359
Speaker 1: has not been especially when you were in high school,

117
00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 1: it will be, I think for future generations more widely taught.

118
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 1: But where'd you get the information that you needed to

119
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 1: be able to succeed with money?

120
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, actually this is an interesting question because I

121
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,200
Speaker 2: actually became very hyper aware of money from the conversations

122
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:55,040
Speaker 2: from my parents but also in my own childhood endeavors.

123
00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,039
Speaker 2: So for context, I actually ran a small business for

124
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 2: a couple of years from like middle school to high school.

125
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:04,679
Speaker 1: Was it was this your Etsy business.

126
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,719
Speaker 2: This was my Etsy business that I talked about in

127
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,960
Speaker 2: the introduction of the book, like the very first page,

128
00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,040
Speaker 2: this is my Etsy business. And so from a very

129
00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 2: young age, I actually had allowance money and spending money.

130
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,200
Speaker 2: So my parents never actually really provided me an allowance

131
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,040
Speaker 2: as a kid. I just kind of made my own

132
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 2: allowance as a kid, and so I became very hyper

133
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 2: aware that it was very difficult to earn a dollar.

134
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,440
Speaker 2: I knew the value of a dollar when I was

135
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 2: a kid. I was like, oh, like, this is tough,

136
00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 2: Like it's not easy to make money. At least when

137
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 2: I was younger, I thought that, and growing up I

138
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,040
Speaker 2: didn't really learn about like investing or stocks. For my parents.

139
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,120
Speaker 2: The only thing they really taught me was to not

140
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,840
Speaker 2: spend your money on unnecessary things and making sure you

141
00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 2: save money. So those were the main things I learned

142
00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,680
Speaker 2: from my parents. I actually didn't really understand what a

143
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,440
Speaker 2: stock was until I got to university, which I think

144
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,080
Speaker 2: made me feel a little behind compared to some of

145
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 2: my peers. But I actually learned a lot of my

146
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,480
Speaker 2: personal finance knowledge in college through YouTube videos. And this

147
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 2: is especially when YouTubers like Graham Stephen and like Andre Jick.

148
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 2: They were like extremely popular. I think they're still very popular,

149
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:27,360
Speaker 2: but it was like the super high heydays. I also

150
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 2: learned through a personal finance course at Berkeley. Actually, the

151
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,960
Speaker 2: professors there I've been teaching the course for maybe close

152
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,480
Speaker 2: to two decades at this point, So it was a

153
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 2: pretty foundational course I took in college, but I know

154
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 2: not many schools have that sort of educational opportunity. But

155
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,520
Speaker 2: besides from that, like books as well, like books and

156
00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 2: online media i'd say are my main two sources at

157
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:53,199
Speaker 2: the time.

158
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,800
Speaker 1: I love the story about your Etsy store, and I

159
00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,959
Speaker 1: think there's so much value for young people, Like when

160
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:06,000
Speaker 1: we talk about high school jobs. The value is partially, yes,

161
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,840
Speaker 1: in the money that you're earning, but it's in that

162
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,680
Speaker 1: attachment of realizing that work is what leads to money,

163
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 1: which most of the time that's the case. Obviously, the

164
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 1: further along you get in your investing career, you have

165
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 1: the ability for your money to work harder for you

166
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:24,520
Speaker 1: than you have to work for it, which is really

167
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,800
Speaker 1: cool too. But there's this power I think when young kids,

168
00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,520
Speaker 1: young people earn money and then they have to make

169
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,120
Speaker 1: saving for spending choices. I see that in my own

170
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,079
Speaker 1: kids as well, as they're getting into that age where

171
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,080
Speaker 1: they have choices to make with the money in their

172
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,360
Speaker 1: account and they're like, how much money do I have

173
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 1: my account? Let me take a look. Okay, so I'm

174
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:44,679
Speaker 1: going to plan and I go out with my friends,

175
00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,280
Speaker 1: I can get some boba tee or whatever, but then

176
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,160
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be able to get that other thing

177
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,120
Speaker 1: I really want. What was that like for you, having

178
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,400
Speaker 1: money as an early teenager, as a young teenager, and

179
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,560
Speaker 1: then having to make those choices for yourself what you

180
00:09:58,600 --> 00:09:59,640
Speaker 1: wanted to do with it.

181
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, it really wasn't about the money.

182
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 2: Like as a kid, it is very exciting that you

183
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 2: have like free will to spend it how you like,

184
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,959
Speaker 2: but it's mostly to see and practice a lot of

185
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,959
Speaker 2: those habits when you were young, so by the time

186
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,320
Speaker 2: you get to your adulthood, you have a sense of

187
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,080
Speaker 2: what's going on instead of having to start from scratch.

188
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,199
Speaker 2: And that was the case for me. I'd say, when

189
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,800
Speaker 2: I was doing this whole Etsy business thing, I wasn't

190
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,400
Speaker 2: really thinking about the future that much, to be honest,

191
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,120
Speaker 2: Like I had some pocket cash that was good in

192
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,000
Speaker 2: my childhood years, and I would spend it on like

193
00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,880
Speaker 2: stationary or search and shoes, like art supplies I wanted

194
00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,000
Speaker 2: that were more high end things like that. And by

195
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 2: the time I got to university, I had just like

196
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,920
Speaker 2: a deeper understanding and appreciation of what it takes to

197
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,200
Speaker 2: manage your finances properly and having more clarity as I

198
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 2: went through internships and starting my full time career after university,

199
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,560
Speaker 2: and so that's been my journey so far with that.

200
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,440
Speaker 1: Do you think personal finance is different for gen Z

201
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 1: than it is for previous generations. There's so much talk

202
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,880
Speaker 1: about generational differences, and I'm just curious to know your take. Personally,

203
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how difference it is personal finance for

204
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,760
Speaker 1: gen Z than it is for millennials or Gen xers.

205
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 2: I think the foundational principles and the tactical strategies are

206
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,959
Speaker 2: actually quite very similar. I'd say some of the main

207
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,240
Speaker 2: differences are, of course technology. So with so much information

208
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:45,080
Speaker 2: that's floating around, I see people and peers typically fall

209
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 2: into two buckets. The first bucket is that there's so

210
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 2: much information available that it's easier than ever to get

211
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,600
Speaker 2: started early, to open accounts when you are at a

212
00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,080
Speaker 2: younger age and having to go to a bank physically.

213
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,000
Speaker 2: That's the group of people and that's what I personally

214
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,719
Speaker 2: identified with, that it was easier to get into it.

215
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 2: And the other subgroup of people that I find for

216
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 2: my generation is that because there is so much information

217
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,120
Speaker 2: out there, people feel very overwhelmed and don't know where

218
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,440
Speaker 2: to start, and they just like don't start altogether because

219
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:25,560
Speaker 2: it's just too much. And personally for me, I realized

220
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 2: this problem really early on, and that's why I strive

221
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 2: to provide clarity for my audience who is watching, and

222
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 2: especially the book that I wrote to help condense a

223
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,720
Speaker 2: lot of that knowledge, so people know there is one

224
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 2: place to look instead of being more overwhelmed. So that's

225
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,320
Speaker 2: how I think it kind of fits in here.

226
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 1: When we're talking about the generational divides, Like every young

227
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,679
Speaker 1: generation gets labeled as bad with money. I remember as

228
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,360
Speaker 1: a millennial coming out of college and it was like

229
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,520
Speaker 1: millennials are idiots and they're never gonna get live up

230
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,760
Speaker 1: to their parents' example and they're never going to be

231
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 1: okay with money. They just don't know what they're doing.

232
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,440
Speaker 1: And it's interesting, like I feel like I started to

233
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,680
Speaker 1: see those headlines about gen z too, but I'm seeing

234
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 1: a lot different sort of the take and it seems

235
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,480
Speaker 1: like from what I can tell that gen Zers are

236
00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,600
Speaker 1: quite intent to learn about money. They're then some of

237
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,640
Speaker 1: the statistics spare this out too, right, They're investing at

238
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,520
Speaker 1: an earlier age and talking about money seems less taboo.

239
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,480
Speaker 1: Why do you think gen Z seems to be a

240
00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 1: little more open about money, or maybe at least just

241
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,480
Speaker 1: the headline writers and the people who are writing those

242
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,720
Speaker 1: news stories aren't antagonistic towards gen Z.

243
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 2: I think gen Z are more open to different perspectives

244
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,400
Speaker 2: and sharing what's going on with their personal lives as

245
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,040
Speaker 2: well as their financial lives. And it's mostly because of

246
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,880
Speaker 2: the rise of social media, Like on TikTok it's so

247
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,839
Speaker 2: casual to see someone just talking about how much that

248
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 2: they have and how they're planning to pay that off,

249
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,400
Speaker 2: and people really like to see the journey of going

250
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,719
Speaker 2: from one place to a different and more developed version themselves.

251
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 2: I think that is really interesting, And you brought a

252
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,679
Speaker 2: good point that there are news articles coming out with

253
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,120
Speaker 2: how millennials were painted turned in picture, and I think

254
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 2: gen Z they feel a sort of different pressure in

255
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 2: terms of, like you said, gen Z is investing more.

256
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 2: There's a trend that more people are learning about it,

257
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,080
Speaker 2: which is really good. But the main issue that I

258
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,840
Speaker 2: personally see is because of how Covid had played out

259
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 2: the job market with AI generally, how wages are not

260
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 2: really keeping up and job growth in general, even though

261
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 2: a lot of gen Zers are intent to learning these things,

262
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 2: a lot of the economic factors and just how the

263
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 2: way the world works now makes it harder for people

264
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 2: like me to get ahead versus gen X or earlier

265
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,520
Speaker 2: generations where you can get by on one income and

266
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,560
Speaker 2: still live really comfortably. I think it's just harder. The

267
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,040
Speaker 2: means a more difficult now.

268
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think you're right. I think it is

269
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 1: just like we get well. I want to get into

270
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 1: this later, buying a house. It is a different paradigm

271
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 1: than it was in twenty ten, and it's different than

272
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 1: it was in the nineteen seventies, and so it's that

273
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,800
Speaker 1: is a hurdle for sure. The gen Z faces that

274
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 1: other generations did not face in the same degree. The

275
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,720
Speaker 1: same thing is true the cost of college. So I

276
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,560
Speaker 1: want to get into those specific topics in just a

277
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 1: little bit. Let's talk about investing though there's I love

278
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 1: that gen Z is more interested in investing, and I

279
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,720
Speaker 1: think some of the you know, the apps to make

280
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,440
Speaker 1: it easier to invest at your fingertips. The robin hoods

281
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:42,520
Speaker 1: of this world are have certainly incited some of that excitement,

282
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,000
Speaker 1: but there's also a downside to more investing interest, right,

283
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,280
Speaker 1: and that is pursuing riskier strategies. And I think we've

284
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,080
Speaker 1: also seen gen Z do that, p taking some really

285
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 1: risky investing endeavors. So what are you how do you

286
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 1: think about teaching the next generation about investing, and how

287
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 1: do you, yeah, what's your take on maybe some of

288
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,280
Speaker 1: the investing the ways that they're they're going about investing.

289
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,400
Speaker 2: Personally? For me, I am a lot more risk averse,

290
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 2: i'd say than the average gen Zer. Most of my

291
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 2: portfolio is in broad market ETFs, and I have some

292
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,280
Speaker 2: tech stocks that are like singular stocks from like the

293
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,800
Speaker 2: company I work at, as well as some other ones.

294
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:31,320
Speaker 2: But I personally don't really partake much in like you know,

295
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 2: like options day trading, not even that much crypto, to

296
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 2: be honest, And I'd say that is something for gen

297
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,840
Speaker 2: Zers to recognize. I think a lot of my peers

298
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 2: are seeking short term gains like get rich quick or

299
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 2: get rich tomorrow, and I see that trend a lot,

300
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 2: but I think we tend to forget to zoom out

301
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 2: for the bigger picture to understand like why you're investing

302
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 2: in the first place. And for a lot of people,

303
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 2: especially if you're more forward looking in terms of your future.

304
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 2: It's less about short term gains for tomorrow, but more

305
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,760
Speaker 2: about how you can build sustainable wealth over time and

306
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 2: letting that give you more options and freedom later on,

307
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 2: because when you really come down to it, money is

308
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 2: just a way to enjoy your life and to provide

309
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 2: for the life that you want to live. And so

310
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 2: that's my personal philosophy and just encouraging more people to

311
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 2: think long term rather than quick quick wins.

312
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,480
Speaker 1: Do you think that's maybe where the disconnect is sometimes

313
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,840
Speaker 1: for gen z gets. It could be the lack of

314
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 1: personal finance education, but can also be the lack of

315
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,400
Speaker 1: clarity I guess for why they're investing. And it feels

316
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 1: like maybe the sort of yolo mentality rules the day,

317
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,560
Speaker 1: where hey, I see other people getting rich. Somebody else

318
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 1: invested in Nvidia last year or Bitcoin five years ago.

319
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,360
Speaker 1: I've got to find another way to make bank quickly,

320
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,680
Speaker 1: or I'm behind my peers. Is Is it that sort

321
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 1: of Is that part of maybe the reason for some

322
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,119
Speaker 1: of the risk here investing habits of the gen z

323
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,880
Speaker 1: is espousing and they're may be not as on board

324
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,720
Speaker 1: the train of the get rich slowly bandwagon that maybe

325
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 1: you and I would be on.

326
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,800
Speaker 2: Oh yes, of course, the media definitely influences the way

327
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,160
Speaker 2: we think about our investing decisions. Like I remember several

328
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 2: years ago with like like dogecoin and AMC where some

329
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 2: of the top headlines, remember the pump and dumps. I

330
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 2: think it's la fomo, like if you get in at

331
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 2: this time, you will get this result, which tends to

332
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,159
Speaker 2: be what is getting played out on the media and

333
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 2: on you know, social media. Everyone's sharing their own perspectives

334
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of people sharing how maybe

335
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 2: they made X amount of money through x investment, and

336
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,400
Speaker 2: you should get in right now so you can also benefit.

337
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 2: But a lot of times those are typically things that

338
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 2: when people promote them, the only person that really benefits

339
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,160
Speaker 2: are the people who are promoting them because they got

340
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 2: in early. Right by the time you see it, it's

341
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 2: probably already over. So I think it's just la le

342
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 2: fomo and things like that, and just not having clarity,

343
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,159
Speaker 2: like you said, not knowing your reason or why. It

344
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 2: could also be due to like age naturally, like if

345
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 2: you're in your early twenties, you're probably not thinking about

346
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 2: what your life looks like at age. I don't know,

347
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 2: like fifty or beyond, and so it's just like lack

348
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,000
Speaker 2: of goal setting and clarity, which is what I'm trying

349
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,880
Speaker 2: to help promote to more of my peers.

350
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like we understand, we know in some

351
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,199
Speaker 1: part of remote part of our bodies or brain that

352
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,119
Speaker 1: we will someday be old, but it's really hard to envision,

353
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 1: and so it's hard to empathize with our future self

354
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 1: and save and invest with that long term reality in mind.

355
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,399
Speaker 1: I've got more, a lot more I want to get

356
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: to with you, Lilian, including like, hey, what what are

357
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,120
Speaker 1: the old money rules? Why do we need to ditch them?

358
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 1: And what are the new money rules we need to

359
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 1: put in their place. We'll get to more with Lilian

360
00:19:54,359 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 1: right after this. We're back from the break, still talking

361
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:10,680
Speaker 1: with Lilian Zang, talking about gen Z's perception of finances

362
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,919
Speaker 1: and the reality of the money issues they have to

363
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 1: face these days that are different right than prior generations.

364
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 1: Some things are evergreen, some things remain the same, Some

365
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 1: things are very macro economic based, and I want to

366
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 1: get into some of that stuff with you, Lilian. We

367
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: briefly touched on like some of the economic pessimism I

368
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 1: think that exists among young adults. Do you see that

369
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,360
Speaker 1: as like realistic, Hey, there's this things aren't as good

370
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 1: as they used to be. Think I don't have it

371
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 1: like my grandparents had it? Or do you think that

372
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: sort of mindset is limiting maybe their ability to build

373
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: their future.

374
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen several sides of this, so, like you said,

375
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 2: because previous generations have had it a lot more, I guess,

376
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 2: to put it simply than gen Z facing right now.

377
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people fall into i'd say

378
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 2: a quote Yolo mindset where it's like, oh, like this

379
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,959
Speaker 2: seems impossible, or I'll never be able to get to

380
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 2: where I envision my life to be. So I'm just

381
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 2: not going to think about the future. I'm just going

382
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: to save. I mean, I'm just going to spend and

383
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 2: enjoy my life today. That's what I tend to see

384
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 2: a lot. And then there's another group of people who

385
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,880
Speaker 2: I think this is where I more fall into myself,

386
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,160
Speaker 2: where it's like, oh, I know I have to you know,

387
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 2: work harder, but also planning if you start planning early

388
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 2: and educating yourself early and how financial literacy works and

389
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 2: how you can shape your future into something that is

390
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: more attainable for yourself. Then you can put together a

391
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 2: plan and figure out what are the steps I need

392
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 2: to take or prioritize to set myself up for a

393
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: future where a lot of these things could be possible

394
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 2: in the next few years, five or ten years down

395
00:21:58,960 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 2: the line.

396
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: So do you think some of the yolo people you

397
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: run into it's not that they're not investing or planning

398
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: because they don't have the resources. I know that is

399
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: obviously true for many Americans, But would you say it's

400
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: more true that or yeah? From your perspective, are you

401
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: encountering people who could make the same decisions that you

402
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: make or that you encourage other people to make, but

403
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: they're just they have a different mentality and they don't

404
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 1: necessarily they're not thinking along those long term lines.

405
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know plenty of high earners in my

406
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 2: peer group that have the means to plan for the future,

407
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 2: but they're just not prioritizing it because they want to

408
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: live in the now, which is also valid. You want

409
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 2: to enjoy yourself now and plan for the future, But

410
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people miss the future part.

411
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you're right, and I think it makes sense,

412
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: Like it's easier to be like the future will take

413
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: care of itself. I can think about that later, especially

414
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 1: especially when you're in your twenty so many people really do.

415
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: It's at forty when people start to think about investing

416
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: and they're like, I guess I should start saving for retirement.

417
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 1: But by then, as you know, they've missed out on

418
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: a decade and a half or more of compounding returns.

419
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: And so by the time Lily and you hit age forty,

420
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: you're going to be well on your way. You might

421
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: not even have to invest another dollar for the rest

422
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: of your life. That goes to some of the coast

423
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: fire you talk about right, whereas they have to get

424
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 1: started and they have to work double time in order

425
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: to make that happen.

426
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's really interesting. I've seen several stories

427
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: around this where you either work really hard when you're young,

428
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: or you work even harder when you're older.

429
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: Choose your pain, right, choose your pain. So Charlie Munger,

430
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: who the late Charlie Munger, business partner of Warren Buffett,

431
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: He used to say that the first one hundred thousand

432
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 1: dollars is the hardest to get. You already have your

433
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: first hundred k stashed away. What did you do, and

434
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 1: how do you suggest other young people attack that goal

435
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: of trying to get that first six figure nest egg

436
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: invested in set.

437
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 2: Aside, Yeah, I think this is a very nuanced question

438
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: because it doesn't acknowledge that people come from different backgrounds

439
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: or certain stead of privileges that you may have if

440
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: you come into saving for this goal. And I'd be

441
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 2: very cognizant about how I phrase this because I personally,

442
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 2: as like a disclaimer, didn't graduate with any student loans,

443
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 2: so I started out as like net zero, which is

444
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: I think more rare in today's economy. Sure, I want

445
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: to just preface that because I think it's something that

446
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 2: all of people acknowledges, like their inherent privileges when they

447
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 2: come into this journey. And everyone is different, so don't

448
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: feel behind if someone is doing something, because you're always

449
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 2: on your own journey.

450
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 1: I'd say yeah.

451
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: In terms of my own personal journey, I mostly I'm

452
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 2: a big saver, So, like I mentioned in my pre

453
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: a shpiel, my money mindset came a lot down to

454
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: savings and like spending little as money as possible when

455
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 2: I was younger, so I did a lot of that,

456
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: like the internship money that I made from my internships

457
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: during college. I tried to save as much as it

458
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: as I could. I had like a roth ira that

459
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 2: I opened in college, so I started contributing to that

460
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: when I was making a decent income from my internship money.

461
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: So not only was the internship, by the way, getting

462
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: you experienced so you get an awesome job when you graduated,

463
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: you're also making money funneling that money into a wroth ira.

464
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: And gosh, think about money that's tossed into a wrath

465
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: in your late teens or early twenties while you're in college,

466
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: and what that's going to be worth. Money that will

467
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: never be taxed again when you reached that you know,

468
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: age of fifty nine and a half.

469
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: Oh, of course, it's so powerful. And I think it's

470
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: always great to get started early. Even if you don't

471
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: think that this money is a significant sum, it still

472
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: adds up over time. You'd be surprised how much it

473
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 2: grows over time. For sure.

474
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: I know I was looking at and it's one of

475
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: those things that you get told, but it's really hard

476
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: for it to actually like compute in your brain when

477
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: you're in your twenties. Because I know it was hard

478
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: for me. I was like, because of the job I

479
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: was in, I was hearing it all day every day, like,

480
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: this is the power of compounding returns. And I was like, cool,

481
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: I guess I'll do it, even though I don't really

482
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: know what this is going to look like fleshed out.

483
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: But once, once you've been investing for twenty years, then

484
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: you really see the power of compounding returns. You're looking

485
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: at it in the face. But until then, it's just

486
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: a mental exercise. And when you actually see your returns

487
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 1: out pacing your contributions, that's when you're like, oh, this

488
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: is what they were talking about and the light the

489
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: light went off earlier, like or went on earlier, but

490
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: it feels like it's amplified, you know, twenty x once

491
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: you're actually seeing it as you log into your account.

492
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 2: Oh yes, for sure. I spent only like five years

493
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 2: out for my first start investing. Even within like five years,

494
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 2: I've already seen a lot more growth than what I imagine

495
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: it to look like.

496
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is just can accelerate I think the process

497
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: because that gets you excited about continuing to make those

498
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: max those accounts out and continuing to grow wealth. So

499
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: you said that you graduated with no student loan debt.

500
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: When you're speaking to younger gen zers, do you warn

501
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: them about the downsides of taking on too much student

502
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: loan debt? How do you help young people because it

503
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: seems like the way the perception of a college degree

504
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: has soured at least a little bit in our country,

505
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: and I think the main reason isn't because people think

506
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: college is a waste of time. I think they think

507
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: it costs too much money. So how do you help

508
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: young people think about that trade off of expensive education

509
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: and degree that can help you make more versus taking

510
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: another path.

511
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really interesting question because it's a really

512
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: big problem in our country. And I think the caveat

513
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: is that a lot of eighteen year olds are signing

514
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: loan paper in which they have no idea what the

515
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 2: terms mean or what it actually means in terms of

516
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 2: consequences when they sign that at your ripe age of

517
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: like sixteen, seventeen eighteen, which is honestly a little crazy

518
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 2: if you think about it. And something that I really

519
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: encourage people to think about is to work backwards in

520
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,719
Speaker 2: the sense of think about even if you don't know

521
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 2: what you want to do exactly, perhaps choose or center

522
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: on like a field that you can do research on

523
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 2: in terms of something that you could be interested in

524
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: pursuing after college and working backwards to see what those

525
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: careers pay on average. And there are a lot of

526
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 2: resources nationwide and on the federal website that shows like

527
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: a breakdown of like the average pay for specific roles

528
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: and doing the math on how much money you have

529
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: to earn per year to pay off x amount of

530
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: debt that you're taking on. And so it's really down

531
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: to just like numbers and math, because what I see

532
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: really often that comes up on social media on the

533
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: news is people take on like six figures or a

534
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: really large sum of student loan debt and then they

535
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: realize the career that they're in won't be sufficient to

536
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: help pay out that debt in a reasonable time frame.

537
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 2: That's the biggest caveat What.

538
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: Would you say to someone who says, but I really

539
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: like want to be an artist or like, there's some

540
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: careers that are just an engineer of some type is

541
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: easier to assess what the salary is going to be.

542
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: But even when I graduated, podcasting didn't exist, I knew

543
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: I wanted to work in long form audio, but like

544
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: it's really hard to know sometimes what your job is

545
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: going to look like. So I guess from that standpoint

546
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: if someone's saying, but I really want to pursue this thing,

547
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: and it's incredibly difficult to know exactly what direction it's

548
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: going to take me, but I'm compelled to to take

549
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: this course of study. How do you help them maybe

550
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: think how much debt they should be willing to take on.

551
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 2: It's not a black and white picture, like you don't

552
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: have to give up your passion to do something else

553
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: and vice versa. And I am more of like a

554
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: very logical and practical person. So if I were in

555
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: like the shoes of someone who was conflicted about what

556
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: feel to go into, I would personally major in something

557
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: that is more broad and that can apply to different fields,

558
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: and then minor in something that is more concentrated or

559
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: focused on your particular like passion areas. So you have

560
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 2: the best of both worlds where you can use your

561
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: degree for more like of a broader economic thing, and

562
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: then your passion falls into it and you can always

563
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: pursue different passions, like even outside of your course of study,

564
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: like for example, my whole Etsy shop thing, I also

565
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: really like art. Actually also thought about art school for

566
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: a while and I decided against that. But that's like

567
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: a whole like personal conversation. But it was definite, Are well, I'm.

568
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: Sure you are filtering through a bunch of those things,

569
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: the cost of school, What am I going to get paid?

570
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: I like art? Can I still do art from a

571
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: personal perspective that's fulfilling without making it my day job?

572
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: I mean those are all important questions right where you

573
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: wrestling with stuff like that?

574
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. I think when I was in high school,

575
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: I was more tunnel vision. I was more stubborn. I'm like, oh,

576
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: I really want to do this. But then I realized,

577
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: like when you're when you're working, like if you're working

578
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: on your passion, it could feel like a job eventually

579
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: because you have to do that, like you know, as

580
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: your career or like the means to sustain yourself and

581
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: your family. And something that I think was really interesting

582
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 2: for me is because I like more of like the

583
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: artistic side of things. I pursue things like marketing or

584
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: content creation where it made sense very practically, but also

585
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: allow me to use and flex more of those creative

586
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: muscles in my brain. In a way in which work

587
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: feels more like play now. Yeah, so kind of like

588
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: integrating your passion into your work, not directly pursuing your

589
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: passion is what I would personally steer my peers towards.

590
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: A lot of wisdom in there, Lily, And I like that.

591
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: So your book The New Money Rules, like when you're

592
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: talking about the you're kind of talking about the old

593
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: way of doing things versus the new way of doing

594
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: things in different categories, And the one about budgeting was interesting,

595
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: and you talk about loud budgeting and you hinted at

596
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: this earlier when we were talking about kind of social media,

597
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: what are the perks of loud budgeting? And I don't

598
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: know what, what are the new rules of budgeting versus

599
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: the old ones?

600
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, in terms of the loud budgeting trend for context,

601
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: this was a really popular TikTok trend in like late

602
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three early twenty twenty four, when there was

603
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: like a whole like deinfluencing era on TikTok. Like basically,

604
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: the premise of loud budgeting is sort of like sharing

605
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: your goals with your friends or your peers or in

606
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: this case TikTok with the audience of strangers, like what

607
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: your financial goals are, like your debt payoff goals, your

608
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: spending goal, savings goals, et cetera. So it was just

609
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: more of like a really fun and open conversation about

610
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: how people approach spending their money and how that can

611
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 2: inspire you to also create more of a plan or

612
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: set more goals and intentions with your spending. And I

613
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: think for gen Z it can come across as like

614
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: a quote restrictive topic like budgeting is not the most

615
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: fun word to think about because it feels like, oh,

616
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: I have to put guard rails down on how to

617
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: spend my money or put restrictions on myself.

618
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: For so much I know exactly.

619
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: It feels like dread and people don't really want to

620
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: think about that. But my whole premise in the book

621
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 2: and that I mentioned directly too, is I like the

622
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: idea of feeling more empowered and having clarity on where

623
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: I'm spending on. Am I spending on things that bring

624
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: me value and joy? Or do I open my credit

625
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: card segment one day and not even remember what I

626
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: spent the money on, Like that's the biggest thing for

627
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: me personally, and that I share with my audience too.

628
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 2: Tracking your expenses, your income, and just having a general

629
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 2: plan of like how you want to spend your funds

630
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: is just a great way to be more do you

631
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 2: have more clarity on your spending, seeing if your values

632
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 2: aligned with how you're managing your money, and just having

633
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: more confidence for future planning, especially since money is still

634
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 2: a big part of our everyday lives, even though we

635
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 2: don't really want to discuss or think about it.

636
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: On the career side of things, when I think about

637
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: my parents' generation, they had a couple of jobs, and

638
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: I feel like even their parents had one, maybe two jobs,

639
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: like over the course of their career. It seems like,

640
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: based on predictions, the gen Z folks are going to

641
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: be well. They already are far more likely to job

642
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: hop but then some estimates say that they're going to

643
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: have like sixteen or seventeen jobs and maybe like five

644
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: or more careers, which is kind of hard to fathom.

645
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: And the job market seems like it's moving quicker than

646
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: ever in various directions, and it's kind of hard to

647
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: know where you're going to be five or ten years

648
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: from now. And there probably will be similar to the

649
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: podcasting thing, there will be new career opportunities that open

650
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: up that didn't exist before. How do you help gen

651
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: Z or what is your advice to gen Z to

652
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: help them navigate this kind of more fluid job market

653
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: that we're experiencing.

654
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there has been an interesting term that's been

655
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 2: floating around, I think quite recently. It's called the concept

656
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: is called a portfolio career, in which your career is

657
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 2: now defined by one job or necessarily even one industry,

658
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: but how your skills can be spread across different types

659
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 2: of industries to create a career that's not just like

660
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 2: one particular job. In that case, that something I think

661
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: like gen X and previous generations have been more clear cut.

662
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: They just have one job and they're like good. But

663
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 2: I think gen Z is more creative and they like

664
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 2: to find different ways to exercise their skills and to

665
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: monetize different hobbies or passions to create more opportunities for

666
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: themselves and to provide for the people they care about

667
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 2: around them.

668
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: So those skills and abilities are going to be put

669
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 1: to use in a bunch of different ways throughout their career.

670
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: So focus more on the skill building and less on

671
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: this specific path that set before me. I'm going to

672
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: walk down it.

673
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 2: Yes, especially with the Internet and the media and just

674
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: a lot of other opportunities depending on what fuel you're in.

675
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: If your skills are flexible across different types of work,

676
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: then you're not confined to one thing. Especially within the

677
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 2: job world, layoffs some more common these days, and so

678
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: that's something that I've been watching a lot in terms

679
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: of how that affects my own personal planning. So my

680
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: peers that I see, they're not putting all their eggs

681
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: in one basket, especially in today's economic environment, and how

682
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: there are more opportunities to do more types of career

683
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 2: moves than was when there was less technology available to

684
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: be more flexible with these things.

685
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: Which makes me think now about side hustles for small businesses,

686
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: and yet one I think usually prioritizes quick income. The

687
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: other is a more long term approach, and it seems

688
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: like you're taking the build a small side business approach

689
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 1: that could eventually eclipse my day job. How do you

690
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: and I just think that there's just a limited upside

691
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: in most side hustles unless you are perpetually willing to

692
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: trade time for money, and that can work for a season.

693
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: It's hard to make it work for a decade. How

694
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: do you thread that needle of like building something on

695
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: the side versus pouring more into your day job versus

696
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: side hustling.

697
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: So, like you mentioned, there are two main types of

698
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: side hustles. The first one is trading your time for money.

699
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 2: So this include things like ubers, door dash babysitting, dog walking,

700
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: very common, I guess, like side gigs amongst the communities today,

701
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: where if you need the money right away and you

702
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 2: have extra time, you can do things to get extra cash.

703
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: But those skills and those experiences won't compound on top

704
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 2: of each other unless you make it into a business

705
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 2: in which your inputs and your skills will compound over time. Personally,

706
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: I've never done well. I've done a few of the

707
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: first examples, like tutoring and teaching people, and I think

708
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 2: that was great When I was in college, when I

709
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: didn't have, you know, that much experience, I was still

710
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: building up my skills, like teaching was a skill that

711
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 2: I was interested in, you know, developing as a college student.

712
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: And when I got into my full time career, that

713
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: is actually my main priority in terms of my day

714
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 2: job and just making sure that I'm like continuously learning

715
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 2: new skills and growing in that aspect. But also my

716
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 2: other side business is my whole like content creation, media

717
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 2: portion of it where I'm using the skills in marketing.

718
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 2: In my day job, I work in marketing and funneling

719
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 2: that skill into a different entity, and so I can

720
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: apply those skills to something that can grow over time

721
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: and is not limited by like trading your time for

722
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: a specific hustle like I mentioned in the first hustle category.

723
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: What would you say to a gen Z follower of

724
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: yours who wants to buy a house but feels like

725
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: it's impossible. Is buying a house still like part of

726
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: the American dream is still a necessity to feel like

727
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 1: you've made it in the United States of America? Or

728
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, should we just be content to rent

729
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: because it's so much cheaper than buying, especially in almost

730
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: everywhere in the country.

731
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: So one of the old rules that I mentioned in

732
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: the book actually is that previous generations. I hear this

733
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 2: from my parents all the time. It's like, you must

734
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 2: buy a house right away or else something bad will happen,

735
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: or you're not investing your money wise, like you don't

736
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 2: buy a house right now. That's like an old rule,

737
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,959
Speaker 2: I'd say, because a lot of gen z we don't

738
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: really relate to that anymore, especially like you said, like

739
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 2: high housing prices, and it's just much more difficult, especially

740
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: I'm looking at like Bay Area, San Francisco is just

741
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 2: like insane how much housing prices grew just in the

742
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: past five years. Yeah, and the idea of owning a

743
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: house as a single person is a lot more daunting.

744
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: And I think for a lot of us, including myself,

745
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 2: we are okay and content with renting and that it's

746
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: not the end of the world. There are other means

747
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 2: to build wealth while you are in that stage of

748
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: building your career or trying to figure things out. But

749
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: I also say, I think I'm also seeing a really

750
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 2: interesting trend and I think this was also more apparent

751
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: five years ago too. Is like the whole idea of

752
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 2: like digital nomadding and not being tied down to one place.

753
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: That seems like a lifestyle that a lot of people

754
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 2: are interested in. But uh, I think you just have

755
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: to adjust your expectations, like you either have to be

756
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: willing to put in a lot of effort and planning

757
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: and work, or adjust your expectations where you're okay with less.

758
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: I think that's like the two main solutions that a

759
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: lot of people end up having to choose between.

760
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: I like that adjust your expectations if you don't want

761
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: to put it in the work to get there, If

762
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: you're expectations are adjusted downward, you'll be a little bit

763
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: less disappointed. I think when you don't buy that house

764
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: at the appointed time that you assumed you should. I've

765
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: got just a few more questions I want to get

766
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: to with you, Lilyan, including like how you think about

767
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: financial freedom today as a twenty five year old. We

768
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: get to that and more right after this. Right we're

769
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: back still talking with Lillian Zang talking about the new

770
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 1: money rules for gen Z, and I just love this conversation.

771
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: I like that we're discussing how gen Z's perception I

772
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: guess really of financial freedom of what it looks like

773
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: to be successful in this country has really changed and

774
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: morphed from the way prior generations see it. And in

775
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 1: many ways, I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle

776
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: where I totally see some of those skewed expectations in

777
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: a good way, Like, yeah, the old way of doing

778
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: it is a little cliche and I want to create

779
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: my own definition of success, and I feel like gen

780
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: Z is taking that to another level and I think

781
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 1: it's really it's really neat and interesting to see. I'm curious, Lily,

782
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: and how do you define financial freedom for yourself today

783
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: and how has that definition evolved specifically over the past

784
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: six or seven years that you've really been engaging in

785
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: the personal finance space to the level you have.

786
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: Oh. Yeah, I definitely think it's evolved quite a bit.

787
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: When I was first starting out versus now, and I'd

788
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 2: say when I was first starting out, I really didn't

789
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,959
Speaker 2: have much confidence in terms of my abilities per se

790
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: to I guess make it in today's world in terms

791
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 2: of it was just very uncertain, like I didn't know

792
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: what my career would look like. I just didn't know

793
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: what my future was going to hold, and so it

794
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 2: had very scarcy mindset of like, oh, I must save

795
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 2: as much as I can and just like that's my

796
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: one and only goal. And so I think that was

797
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 2: a double edged sword because I was a very anxious,

798
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 2: like young adult trying to manage my own expectations and

799
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 2: what I think the world wanted from me. And that

800
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: was like one side, But the other side is that

801
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: it really gave me the foundation of just like getting

802
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: my ducks in a row and learning everything very early

803
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: and very quickly. And so by time now it's been

804
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: a couple of years since I've first got into this

805
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 2: journey more passionately per se and now I've built up

806
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 2: like a foundation where it's like, Okay, I see where

807
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 2: all my prep work leading up to this point has

808
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: helped me in my financial journey, and one of my

809
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 2: main goals going forward is just being able to enjoy

810
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: the present as well as the future. I feel like

811
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 2: when I was first starting out, I was very focused

812
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 2: on I guess like money as the main end goal.

813
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 2: But as time goes on, I realize like money is

814
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 2: just a means to live your life to the way

815
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: that you desire or expect, and that the object of

816
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: money itself is not the reason why we're doing all

817
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: these things, Like money is not the reason for all

818
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 2: of these things at the very end of the day.

819
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: And so that's kind of how my psychology around this

820
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 2: has expanded or matured over the last couple of years,

821
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: and I'm gaining a lot more clarity about myself and

822
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 2: what I hope my future will look like, and you know,

823
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: just be able to provide and protect the people around

824
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 2: me is also very important to me as well.

825
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: You mentioned a scarcity mindset. I'm curious to hear, like

826
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: how it sounds like it was beneficial in some ways

827
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: but limiting also, So how do you get past that

828
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: if you feel like you're butting up against that scarcity mindset?

829
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: I feel like that kind of that can create people

830
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: who are perpetually frugal and unable to think, which can

831
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: be a great thing, but it can be unable then

832
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: to really think about the bigger level levers that you

833
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: can pull in terms of wealth building, business building, Like

834
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: it can be so easy to let that scarcity mindset

835
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: be a low ceiling that keeps you capped in what

836
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: you're able to accomplish.

837
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 2: Of course, so when I was first starting out this journey,

838
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 2: a lot of my anxieties came from having as very

839
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 2: specified I guess like income that was working with and

840
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: being like, oh, like this is all I have, Like

841
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 2: I must, you know, save as much as possible from

842
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: this you know, one source. But then, as was mentioning

843
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: earlier with the whole like side hustle slash business stuff.

844
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 2: As I was gaining more experience in my media side

845
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 2: of the business I was working on, I began to

846
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: open my eyes more as opportunities just kind of like

847
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 2: started to fall into my lap in a way. As

848
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 2: I like put my skills, I put myself out there more,

849
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 2: I just started like seeing stuff kind of like flow

850
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 2: in my direction. And that's like kind of like exposure therapy,

851
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 2: where it's like the more things you try and the

852
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 2: more things you are open to like try doing. It's

853
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 2: like for me, the light bulb moment was when some

854
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: of my first like advertisers reached out to me. I

855
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 2: was like, oh, like, I was just being myself on

856
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: this platform and people are asking me for opportunities, which

857
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: was really mind blowing to me when I was like

858
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 2: a twenty two year old, twenty one year old college student.

859
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 2: And that just opened my mind up that like, opportunities

860
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: can come to you because at the end of the day,

861
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 2: money is just an exchange of value, of perceived value

862
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 2: that others find in yourself and your skills. And that's

863
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: where the switch happened for me.

864
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,879
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. Okay, so you're twenty five,

865
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 1: You've already made a lot of financial progress, medium term,

866
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: long term financial goals, like what's on your horizon.

867
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: Definitely, I'd say owning real estate at some point is

868
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: a i'd say medium to long term goal. After that,

869
00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 2: I'd say most of my lifestyle expands are relatively regular,

870
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: so I don't really upgrade my lifestyle in terms of

871
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: that much. But I would love to be able to

872
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: just spend more on like certain travel experiences, like certain

873
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 2: like business class flights one day without having to think

874
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 2: about it. That would be like a really awesome goal

875
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 2: in the future. But we'll see. And I'd also love

876
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 2: to keep expanding like my businesses in the future as well,

877
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 2: which I would consider a financial goal in a way.

878
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, what's last question. What's one small money move

879
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: that somebody who's listening can make this week that will

880
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: matter ten years from now, because again we're trying to

881
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: make that what's that connection between the thing I can

882
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 1: do now to future me. That's like it's hard to

883
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: draw that line sometimes. Would you tell somebody if it

884
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: was like one thing that you can do right now.

885
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say something that has helped me and a

886
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: lot of my friends is automating your savings and paying

887
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: yourself first. So in a way, for example, if you're

888
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 2: getting a direct deposit, have some of that money be

889
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 2: routed to your savings account hyoled savings account automatically, because

890
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 2: that immediately allows you put funds a wait for your

891
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: future self or investing that money into a brokerage, if

892
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: that is something that you are doing and having less

893
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: incentive to spend whatever you see in your checking account.

894
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 2: Because I know with social media in POLS blind that

895
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 2: is a really big thing a lot of people my

896
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 2: age are facing. So I'll definitely recommend the automation aspect.

897
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: All Right, Lillly, and I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thank

898
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: you for joining me. Where can listeners find out more

899
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,320
Speaker 1: about you and about your brand new book.

900
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 2: So, my brand new book, The New Money Rules, has

901
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: been published in November, so it's recently out. You can

902
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 2: find it everywhere books are sold, and you can find

903
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: me on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn YouTube, any place. My name

904
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 2: is Lilian Saying, and so you find me me there.

905
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: Lovely, Lilian, thank you again so much. I appreciate it.

906
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: Thank you, Joel.

907
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: All Right, that was such a fun conversation with Lillian.

908
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm excited to for other people to read her book,

909
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: and in particular young people. And so if you know

910
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: of a gen zer who needs practical money advice but

911
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: that's targeted specifically towards them, I think Lillian's book is

912
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: a great place to start, especially like with the holidays

913
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: coming up, You're like, oh, man, most people don't want

914
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: to receive a personal finance book, but they definitely don't

915
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: want to receive one from a boomer that was written

916
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. So this is probably a better option

917
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 1: if you're trying to give the gift of a personal

918
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: finance book. But I think there were there were so

919
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: many things that are worth highlighting from this conversation. I

920
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,919
Speaker 1: loved when Lilyan talked about having money as a kid,

921
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: and it gives you that ability to practice right to

922
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 1: see how you get money into your life and then

923
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: to practice using it. I think that's really that's really important.

924
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: And you know, I feel like on the podcast we

925
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: typically talk smack about social media. We use it in

926
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: very you know, austere ways, in particular the how to

927
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: Money Facebook group. That's the place I'm most keen to

928
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: engage and I love seeing people ask questions and help

929
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: each other. But for the most part, I think of

930
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: social media as a negative in the vast majority of

931
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: our lives, as a time suck, and as something that

932
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: can just push us towards envy. There's just a lot

933
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: of downsides from using social media regularly. But one of

934
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: the things Lilian said was that social media makes it

935
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: easier to be open, and I do think from that

936
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: standpoint when she's talking about the loud budgeting phenomena and

937
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: how that has been a really good thing where people

938
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: are able to say out loud, hey, these are things

939
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: I'm struggling with, or hey, here's what I'm trying to accomplish,

940
00:51:53,960 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: and it adds that level of accountability. When you're vocally open,

941
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: when you're putting your face out there and your desires

942
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: and your hopes out there, there is something that happens

943
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: inside of you when you say it out loud to

944
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: everyone you know and even people you don't know, that

945
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: can I think make it more likely that you're going

946
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: to achieve those goals. So maybe, just maybe that's a

947
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: positive social media. I wasn't expecting to walk away from

948
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: this conversation with just I mean so many things, even

949
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: that last thing when we talked about exposure therapy, and

950
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: she said, the more things you try, the more you're

951
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: going to find out about yourself and developing those skills,

952
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: they're going to translate across the spectrum when it comes

953
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: to your job. I think it's good advice for gen

954
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: Z in particular as you're building up your human capital,

955
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: but it's great advice for all of us people of

956
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: all ages to never stop learning and to make sure

957
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,240
Speaker 1: that you're not just building a career with a company,

958
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: but that you're building yourself as a human so that

959
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: you have more opportunity and the ability to use those

960
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 1: interests and the abilities you've gained over time, that those

961
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: would translate into jobs with many employers in different industries

962
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: that you would be more than happy to work in.

963
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: It makes you more valuable, and that means that you

964
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: can pivot in a way that maybe most people wouldn't consider,

965
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,919
Speaker 1: especially in a slightly weird job economy. I think gets

966
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 1: great advice. So all right, I hope this episode was helpful.

967
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 1: As always, thank you for listening. You can find links

968
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 1: to Lillian's book and some for socials up on our

969
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: website at howtomoney dot com. Until next time, Best Friend,

970
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: out