WEBVTT - The (French) Capitol Insurrection 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:13.520 Mama, what does the chicken say? Draft draff? Really giraffe draw? 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.040 You're not gonna get it all right. Just make sure 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:18.079 you know the big stuff, like making sure your kids 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.520 are buckled correctly in the right seat for their agent's eyes. 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.640 Get it right visits n h S A dot gov 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.560 slash the Right Seat brought to you by the National 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.360 Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the AD Council. Hello, and 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.760 welcome to our show. I'm Zoe de Chanelle and I'm 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.040 so excited to be joined by my friends and cast 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.120 mates Hannah Simone and Lamar and Morris to recap our 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.800 hit television series, New Girl. Join us every Monday on 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.440 the Welcome to Our Show podcast, where we'll share behind 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.560 the scenes stories of your favorite New Girl episodes. Each week, 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.240 we answer all your burning questions like is there really 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:53.880 a bear in every episode of New Girl? Plus you'll 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.760 hear hilarious stories like this that was one of your 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:06.320 things from all fashional basketball players. Yeah seven Yeah. Listen 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.280 to the Welcome to Our Show podcast on the I 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:13.760 Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.959 What Girls in the Forest, our imagination and our family 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:21.640 bonds The Forest is closer than you think. Find a 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.920 forest near you and discover the force dot Org brought 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.240 to you by the United States for Service and the 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:33.840 AD Council. What's Parley Voo? And my fran says, I'm 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:39.560 Robert Bastards while it's behind the Insurrections, It's both. It's 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:43.120 like it's like, it's like Bourbon, right, Bourbon is whiskey, 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.760 but but all whiskey is not Bourbon behind the Insurrections 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.440 is behind the Bastards, but all Behind the Bastards episodes 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.560 aren't Behind the Insurrections episodes. So I dig that. Yeah, 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.520 I mean I think, I think that's actually that's a 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:01.600 great analogy and throwing this Scotch thing and then you're like, wait, 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.600 isn't No, I got it. I try to compare as 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.600 many things to Bourbon as I can speaking of Bourbon, 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.440 not speaking of Bourbon, speaking of artists. My guest today, 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:15.960 as with the previous what four episodes we've done on 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.680 this uh is Jason Petty a k A prop. What's 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:24.200 let the lick read Bourbon and night for Breakfast for dinner? Prop? 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:31.840 How do you feel about France? Uh? Wow, um, I 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:36.360 feel carbs. I just think carter and bread. They do 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:41.160 love that fresh food is delightful. Yes, I think. I 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.960 think Harlem Renaissance. That's pretty cool. You know. My patron 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:51.559 saint is is James Baldwin, so it's time out there. Yeah. Uh. 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:57.040 But besides that, I also think, Yah don't like Americans, Yeah, 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.400 which is hard to fault them for what I What 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:04.359 I don't like the French four is appropriating Belgian French 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:08.440 Fries or Belgian Fries and calling that they also they 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.680 have a habit of having superfluous letters and they have 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.960 too many way to like at least a third of 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:20.679 the letters in any French word are unnecessary. Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.639 we're taking France to task today, but we're not talking 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.160 about how they use too many letters. That that'll be 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.200 a six part we do at some point. Today we 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:35.760 are talking without French fascism. Um, yeah, because the French 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.600 actually have a long history of fascism. Although there's a 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.360 weird number of French scholars who will argue that France 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.760 is uniquely immune to fascism, it's not. And today we're 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.320 talking about the day that fascists almost took over the 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:52.520 French government February six, nineteen thirty four. Now, all of 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:54.880 the stories we've shared so far in this series have 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.840 borne some similarities to what happened in the US capital 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.680 on January six and the events that let up to it, 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:04.160 But what happened in France on February six, nineteen thirty 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.280 four is by far the most direct comparison to what 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.240 happened in the U s Capital on the six. I 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.800 knew nothing about this before I started this series, but 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:16.159 it's fascinating. It's wild. Yeah, well it failed, but also 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.960 it is just the same damn thing basically. You know 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.520 what's crazy is how much the thirties must have sucked 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.240 the trash. A lot of this stuff happened in the thirties. Man, 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.600 it sucked as much as I'm gonna guesses are going 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:36.200 to suck suck a decade. Yeah, um yeah, it's great. 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.480 It's great. How the same thing is happening again exactly 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:43.920 a century later. Pretty much. Um So the story starts, 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:45.960 our story today starts in many ways with something that 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.360 happened in the late eighteen hundreds. Prop have you ever 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:53.320 heard of the Dreyfus affair? No, this is I I 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.640 did when I was before I dropped out of college. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.360 The only thing I ever was able to focus on 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:00.680 for more than a semester is a major was was 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.640 Holocaust studies, right I wanted to when I the the 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:05.479 only degree I ever wanted was a degree in like 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.599 Holocaust scholarship. And every class on anti Semitism in the 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.279 history of the Holocaust is going to start, or at 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.880 least be frontloaded with the story of the Dreyfuss affair. 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:17.920 And most Americans don't know about this, but it's very 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.360 famous in France and it's where the French far right 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.599 really comes out of. In eighteen eighty four, a French 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.200 army captain named Alfred Dreyfuss was accused of handing secret 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.440 documents to the Imperial German military. Now this was a 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:34.440 little over a decade since the Austro the Franco Prussian War, 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.200 which is where France lost a bunch of territory to 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.200 what became Germany. Um that one, so there's a lot 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:44.080 of like panic over the Germans, right, So suddenly it 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.280 comes out that like someone has been handing documents over 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.839 to the German military. There's a spy in the French military, 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.840 and everybody focuses on Alfred Dreyfuss. He's the immediate suspected 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.000 culprit because he's Jewish, you know, like, Okay, this is 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:02.040 starting to sound a little familiar. Now, yeah, yeah, this 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.880 is this is a pretty famous moment. Yeah, I feel 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.839 like okay, yeah, yeah, I'm like you and celebrity names 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.920 like I think I know this immediately and his story 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.640 becomes not you know, for there's a trader in the 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:19.720 French military, but there's a treacherous Jew giving our military 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.880 secrets to the Germans. Right. Um, Now, as I'm sure 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:24.919 most of you have guessed, just because this is the 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.480 show that it is, Dreyfus was innocent. The trial against 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.839 him was racially motivated and flawed from the get go, 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.159 and I found a good right up on the trial 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.760 from the open source educational website e International Relations, which 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.960 highlights just how fucked things were from the jump. On 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.760 the morning of Monday, the fifteenth of October, Captain Alfred 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.480 Dreyfuss was summoned to present himself at the French Ministry 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.719 of War. The Commander Patty to come, along with three 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.680 other inspectors, welcome Dryfus and proceeded in asking him to 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.000 write a peculiar letter dictated by Patty to clam that 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.560 this letter contains sentences from the infamous Borderreaux, which was 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:01.640 a letter written by a French spy found in the 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.880 dustbin of the German military attache in Paris. The French 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.080 Ministry of War was searching for the spy, and we're 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.240 testing various officers that could be suspected of treason. As 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.600 Dryfus wrote the letter, he shivered, and the three men 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.440 scrutinizing his every move noticed his trembling, thus deeming it 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.040 as a sign of culpability. He is cold, he shivers, 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:24.520 an incontestable sign of his culpability. The God he's shivered, 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:30.160 He's guilty, held guilty. N One. One constant throughout history 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.440 is people whose job it is to determine whether or 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.520 not folks are guilty of a crime. Are always bad 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:40.120 at that job. Not possible. Yes. Dreyfus was immediately arrested 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.720 for high treason and deported to the prison of I'm 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:44.200 I'm going to try to pronounce it. He was sent 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.960 to prison on December nineteenth. He was court martialed in 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.520 front of a set of anti Semitic juries who judged 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.440 him guilty and sentenced him to a degradation and life 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:57.520 sentence on the Devil's Aisle in French Guyana, so pretty 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.600 pretty much you know, a show trial, right. Uh. That 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:04.400 meant that the anti Semitism man all the way back 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.000 from there, all the way to they build in lasers 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.720 to shoot from space. They build in lasers to shoot 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.160 from space. And this is a real theory because we'll 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.760 talk about this later. France did not have much of 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.960 a history of anti Semitism before, not nearly as much 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:21.960 as a lot of other European countries. So about two 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.720 years after Dryfus is convicted, evidence comes out that a 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.480 completely different, non Jewish French officer had been the spy, 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.320 and this is good evidence. The guilty man, though, was 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.120 immediately acquitted by a military court because Dreyfus was Jewish 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.600 and thus must be the guilty party, and Dreyfus was. 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.400 Actually when the guy who was guilty was acquitted, they 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.080 sentenced to Dryfus for even more crimes that he hadn't 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:48.959 committed in the same Oh my god, it's really bad. 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.440 Oh my god. Anybody who watched that ivan, the terrible 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.319 docuseries on Netflix about the guy that was accused of 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:02.360 being the the not see Oh yeah, I watched that. Yeah, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:09.280 oh Robert, it's up your alley. It is dude. So yeah, 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.080 they're like, that's him. I'll never forget his face. He's like, no, 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:18.200 it's not. Yeah, people are bad at remembering things, which 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.319 is the real problem. Like I witness accounts and stuff. 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.400 But there's not even that in this. This is just 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.160 racism that dry Us is being convicted over. Like it's 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.560 not even someone thinks they see him doing something. Um, 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:30.360 it's just like, well, he's a Jew and he's in 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.400 the army, so he's got to be the guy passing 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:37.840 secrets to the Germans. Obvious felt this way. Oh sorry, 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.439 what's that problem? Is gonna say? Man, uh, this is 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:42.160 gonna be a very racist statement, but I mean it 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:44.440 as a joke, which is even I shouldn't have even 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.600 prefaced it. But I just still think that, like, dang man, 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:51.680 because I still go when I look at like European Jews, 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.040 I'm just like but white people, and I just and 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.160 it's and it's so funny to because I'm like, damn, 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.520 y'all got the short end of the state. You got 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.160 the worst lottery ever as a white dude that you 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.440 don't even get to count as a white dude, you 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.200 have to, I think accept that in this period of 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.679 time in Europe, Jewish people aren't white. They are excluded 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:12.839 from the benefits of whiteness. And the way that like 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:16.040 in the late eighteen hundreds of Italians and Irish were 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:18.520 in the United States, right, Like just the process of 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.000 becoming white for a lot of these groups. Yeah, it's 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.600 so bizarre. I know in the early like this is 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:25.520 the longest script you've ever written, so I shouldn't be 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:31.559 at I know that, like you know stories of when 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.280 when America was founded, you know, only white people could 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.840 own land, so you had like Japanese immigrants standing in 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.200 front of the Congress being like, nah, we're white too, 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.240 you know what I'm saying, And just this argument that 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.520 like I am a part of that dog. I just 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:51.319 can't imagine as someone who's there is no way I 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.680 could stand in front of any court and convince somebody 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:55.840 I'm a white dude. You know what I'm saying that 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.040 like the idea one that that's possible, and to that, 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:03.000 like you actually are, ay dude. Yeah, and and nobody's 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:04.640 calling you a y dude, you know what I'm saying, 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.360 Like that's at least the the European jew obviously Ethiopian 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.080 Jewish people are clearly now why dudes, you know, yeah, 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:17.080 I mean, and it's it's a factor of non whiteness 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.480 is a scale, right, Like everyone who is considered non 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.760 white isn't considered the same um there, but it's it's 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.160 it's a it's a scale. And and in this period 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.840 of time and a lot of Europe, and really not 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.079 in France, this had not been the case. But in 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.480 a lot of Europe Jewish people are not really considered 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.800 like there had been there there had been within living 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.640 memory at this point, severe restrictions on whether or not 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.160 Jewish people could own property in parts of Europe. Um 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:45.959 it had not been legal like up to the First 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.280 World War, almost in like Germany, for Jewish people to 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:50.680 be officers in the military, like there were very strong 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.800 restrictions around it. So it's really it's hard to almost 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.200 get your head around because of how significant it is 0:11:58.200 --> 0:11:59.960 in this period. That's the point I'm trying to make 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.640 is like I still can't obviously you can't, you can't 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.320 pull a you know, a critical race there is based 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:11.200 on a society in the in the twenty one century. 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.280 You can't yank that back to the seventeen and think 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.040 it's going to be the same. But at the same time, 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.000 it's still hard to like wrap my mind around the 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.839 fact that they're like but not him. And I'm like, yeah, 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.160 how do you know you know I'm saying it's um, 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.640 I mean, it's it's the whole the whole process of 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.800 a lot of you know, it's it's the same way 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.040 as how most of the kind of colonial procedures that 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.320 the British carried out in Africa in order to maintain 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.280 dominance and split up different tribal groups and keep them 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.600 fighting each other so that they could dominate and exploit them. 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.160 They beta tested that in Ireland with with with what 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.160 we're effectively tribes and group tribal groups of Irish people 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.040 like that that. There are people scholars who will argue 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.760 that the Irish were the first people to be excluded 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.560 from whiteness when they were when the idea of whiteness 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.400 was being invented, before the slave trade even really existed, 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.240 because like it was there an early colonized people. It's 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.800 a it's a like it will do a history series 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.440 about this at something History of whiteness. Yeah, there's a 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.319 couple of really good books, including one titled The Invention 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.360 of the White Race. That's yeah, it's a great book. Yeah, 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:19.560 very interesting. So anyway, everything that dry Us, you know, 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.880 getting tried and then getting reconvicted, when this new infro 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.200 comes up, it creates a massive culture war in France. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.440 In two groups kind of rise up around this. There's 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.760 the anti dry Fusards, who are confusingly the ones who 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:38.280 think Dryfus is innocent. Okay, yeah uh, and then there's 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.640 the dry Fussard's who are raging anti semites um. Like, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.760 the dry Fusards think that that dry Fus is guilty. 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.320 The anti dry Fussards think that he's yeah. Okay, So 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:51.319 it's the opposite of how you'd think it would be. 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.439 It's opposite day okay, got it. So dry Fuss is 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.559 pardoned by the French president and released in nineteen o three. Eventually, 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.000 just like and and in fairness to France, the weight 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.840 of kind of cultural opinion is that Dreyfus is guilty. 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.319 People come around on this and realize that they've done 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.720 him dirty. Um. So he's released in nineteen o three 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.920 and in nineteen oh six of French court formally recognizes 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.680 his innocence. Now, the actual spy and the racist officers 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.960 who conspired against Dreyfus were never punished. And one of 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.080 the saddest things about the story is how kind of 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:27.040 incomprehensibly loyal to the state Alfred Dreyfus is because after 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.040 he gets out of years of being in prison as 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.080 a spy, he rejoins the French army and fights in 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.440 World War One. Yeah, he retires as a lieutenant colonel 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.480 and dies at nineteen thirty five. He goes right back 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:42.520 into the military. Dry until boy, like, bro, it is 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.400 hard to get your head around these people don't love 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.480 you family well, so, I mean, in fairness to him, 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.640 a lot of folks there was a huge culture war 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.760 in his defense. In a lot of cases people this 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:59.480 is wrong. Um, so all things considered, for what is 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:05.600 effective lee like a racist attack on a Jewish man 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.800 at multiple levels of the military. The dry Fuss affair 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:10.560 works out about as well as you can expect for 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.040 drivers because he is he is vindicated in the end, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.880 but because of how much because of what kind of 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.600 like evolves in France around believing dry Fuss is guilty 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:22.720 and starting to believe that Jewish people are kind of 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:27.400 inherently unloyal to the state. Uh supercharges the radical right 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.360 in France, and it lays the foundations for French sympathy 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.720 for the Nazis and a hatred of Jewish people that 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.240 would claim tens of thousands of lives in World War Two. 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:36.920 And I'm gonna quote from that right up in the 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.760 International Relations again quote. Before the affair, France had been 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.280 one of the least anti Semitic countries in Europe. It 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.600 in fact had been the country where the most Jews 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.480 had sought political asylum. During the pogroms that took place 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.040 in Russia during the eighteen eighties. Russian Jews escaped the 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.760 massacres ordered by the Czar and flee towards the rest, 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:59.360 predominantly France. Another event attesting to France's non anti Semitic 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.080 past was that there was no French delegation at any 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.280 of the annual congresses of anti Semitism that took place 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.920 in Dressden. Yes, there used to be yearly congress is 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.920 based on anti Semitism and Dressed that a bunch of 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.320 European countries would send delegates to to talk about the 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.840 danges you the the amount of anti like the Holocaust 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.360 isn't a factor of the Nazis. The Holocaust is a 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.560 factor of centuries of most of European christen of being 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.920 like the Jews are dangerous, Like that's where it comes from. 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:32.200 Just a slow moving train that ended exactly where logically 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.600 it would end. Yeah, it was the result of for 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.440 hundreds of years, lots of prominent people being like, we 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.080 should murder these folks, and then they did. You know, 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.440 it's the least surprising thing in the world if you 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:47.360 read anything about European history. Um so. Yeah. But in 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.240 France though, um that that's not really the case is much. 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.920 Obviously there's anti Semitism in France, as the drivers affair shows, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:55.520 but it's not nearly what it was. It was one 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.480 of the best places in Europe to be Jewish, and 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.920 there were as dry This proves a lot of very 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:04.840 loyal to France Jewish people. Um So, the anti Semmatism 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.359 really starts to grow into a serious force in France 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.080 as a result of the Dry Fust affair. The Driver's 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.119 affair also leads to an explosion in the radical press 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:15.800 for the first time in French history. Left and right 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.959 start launching a series of newspapers and magazines aimed at 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.399 taking different sides in a violent culture war. At the start, 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.600 anti dry Fussard press outnumbered the dry Fusard press by 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.240 about ten to one in terms of readership. So the 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.600 guys who think dry fuss is innocent, that's the majority 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.600 of the press at the beginning. But that doesn't stop 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:37.080 the dry the dry Fusard press, which are the ones 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.480 who don't like drivers, from publishing a constant stream of 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.680 ever more lurid lies about a Jewish conspiracy to undermine 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.800 the military. Now, some will argue that the whole reason 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.040 the dry fust affair became a thing was because the 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.720 press flocked to it, and that it might have disappeared 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.800 um if they hadn't written so much about it. Scholar 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.600 Jen Dennis Brennan wrote, the press became the power of opinion. 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.080 It amplified the political movements without creating them. For the 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.520 first time, the press disposed of a powerful influence on 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:08.719 French politics, dramatizing supporting or denouncing the authorities. Now this 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.879 is very familiar to everybody listening right now. It's the 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:12.760 same thing that happened with like Q and on right, 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.520 this radical press, the the and wh when we talk 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.880 about radical press in this period, the people like mimeographing 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.360 or whatever their own like little newsletters and stuff. It's 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:23.359 the same as like memes and shipped on Twitter and 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.720 ke went on it's like eight chance, that's what's happening. 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.560 He's still ye still just dank memes, okay, And it's 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:30.920 it's by the way, this basic process is the same 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.439 thing that radicalize as Hitler when he's when he's like 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.679 homeless living in Vienna, he starts picking up all of 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.920 these crudely copied and written anti Semitic tracts that were 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.120 passed out in mass on the street. That's what convinces 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.119 him in a lot of ways about the danger of 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.040 the Jewish menace. It's a lot of the same ship 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.120 you see on h Chan. It's just now what happens online. 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.000 Then it was like like zines you would pass out basically. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:57.680 I wonder if there's like some sort of psychological study 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:03.040 or something that like lays out what that does to 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:07.760 you mentally to see something that's like feels clandestined, if 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.560 you will, Because it's like these like mimiograph things like 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.080 the quality is terrible. So it's so does something in 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.200 you feel like, oh, this is a secret. That's why 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.080 it's not all polished and nice. It's like, does there 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:20.959 someone if there's something to that where it's like I'm 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.520 I'm in I'm in on something. I know. There's psychology 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.439 about that where you feel like you're in on something 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.800 everybody else isn't it. It hits a certain part of 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.640 your brain. It's man, But I wonder if there's something 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:34.520 to do with like, how sucky the quality of like 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.360 y are? This is the same? You know? I talk 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.679 about this a lot. There's this one of the guys 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.480 behind the Lincoln Project as a fellow named Rick Wilson, 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.000 who is, like I think, objectively a bad person, um, 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.960 but has been historically pretty good at creating certain types 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.400 of propaganda. He was the guy behind the Reverend Right 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.760 campaign ads during Obama's election. Um, yeah, he's that guy. 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:00.800 And I interviewed him in talking about kind of his 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.440 opinion on Hillary Clinton's campaign ads versus Donald Trump's because 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.520 the first Trump campaign ads really felt like something some 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.160 teenager had cobbled together on their laptop, and Hillary's ads 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.679 were like traditional campaign as and everyone was a lot 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:15.959 of liberals were making fun of Trump's ads, but they 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.240 were getting this incredible traction. And the thing he told 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:22.640 me was essentially like the really polished slip campaign ads 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:24.479 don't work nearly as well as the ones that look 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.119 like they came out of somebody's basement, because that feels 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.639 real to people, right, Like, it feels more authentic. And I, 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.400 you know, like, again he's a very bad person. Um, 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.240 he's not bad at making propagande. And I think about 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.200 what he told me a lot um and that's I think, 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.040 what kind of what you're seeing here? I think you're 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:47.280 exactly right. So the dry Fist affair would prove in 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.480 the radical press that kind of comes out of the 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.040 dryf this affair would prove to be the seed of 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.120 a new militant right wing in France, one that came 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:56.960 with its own stabbed in the back myth right. We 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:58.639 talked about how the stabbed in the back myth in 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.240 Germany was crucial now the right in Frances, like we 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.320 lost the Franco Prussian War because the Jews, you know, 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.719 um damn it. And it's it's worth noting that when 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:11.360 the Nazis took over France, they actually had a problem, 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.800 had serious problems logistically because of how many French people 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.359 were turning in their Jewish neighbors. They couldn't deal with 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:21.000 the sheer number of Jewish people being turned into them. Yeah, 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.040 it was way more normal to give up your Jewish 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.160 neighbors to the Nazis than it was to hide them 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.320 in a lot of Europe, but in France too. Yeah yeah, 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.080 I know, like I have, we talked about so many times, 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:34.560 like the parallels in the in like Syria and Iraq 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.879 and Iran, like and I have you know, some of 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.600 my homies out there, like we're trying to explain like 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.399