Speaker 1: This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening hunt don't
Speaker 1: eat podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light.
Speaker 1: Go farther, stay longer. This is an extra special Loose
Speaker 1: Ends episode. In fact, we're recalled loose Ends where we
Speaker 1: deal with hate mail. Um, we don't love mail, No,
Speaker 1: very little hate mail, disappointed mail, outstanding questions, clarifications, the
Speaker 1: one my favorite corrections. We're a doodle here something He's
Speaker 1: like non in and in and in any right, and
Speaker 1: it takes the time to right in and tell you
Speaker 1: where you're wrong. I love it. But um, there's two
Speaker 1: ways that it comes. It comes as from a person
Speaker 1: who is like, man, you know, I want to contribute
Speaker 1: to the conversation in a constructive way, and those boys
Speaker 1: should not be misleading people in this way. And I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm gonna do my civic duty as an
Speaker 1: engaged listener and set the record straight. There's that guy
Speaker 1: well love, and there's like this other sort of feller
Speaker 1: who just has a ax to grind, probably spends a
Speaker 1: lot of time on Facebook writing mean messages to people.
Speaker 1: Right first one, I'll bring this one up just like
Speaker 1: just got it today, just came in today. What are
Speaker 1: you doing? Honest? Making notes part of my job. This guy,
Speaker 1: here's what he has to say. My hunting body and
Speaker 1: I were watching your show what Butcher and a Moose yesterday?
Speaker 1: Tom Habib is this feller's name? My hunting body never
Speaker 1: watching your show while Butcher and the Moose yesterday. I'm
Speaker 1: already I'm already hooked. I'm already engaged by this letter.
Speaker 1: And he says, we're chatting about the cast of characters
Speaker 1: that appear on the show and podcast. I don't want
Speaker 1: to turn this into it if your favorite Meet Eater
Speaker 1: guy was a character from Game of Thrones, Harry Potter
Speaker 1: or whatever, who would he be type of thing. But
Speaker 1: there was one comparison that just leaped out at us,
Speaker 1: especially after listening to the podcast under the Bear Encounter
Speaker 1: on a fog Neck, which is talled The Meat Tree
Speaker 1: Part one. In The Meat Tree Part two, he says,
Speaker 1: while Steve is the apparent protagonist and gets all the glory,
Speaker 1: it is clear to us that he is merely the
Speaker 1: fro Though to Janice's Sam Wise, I e the true
Speaker 1: hero of the story who just goes out there and
Speaker 1: straight up get ship done. It is your honest, so
Speaker 1: do you that's this guy had to say that. It's
Speaker 1: like that was just a nice fan letter. That's really sweet.
Speaker 1: Sign that for me. He signed him in a frame
Speaker 1: it less less, get so full of himself. Let's get
Speaker 1: so full of himself. Thanks tom um. Did you just
Speaker 1: set your honest up to just knock him down a
Speaker 1: peg or two? I swear to it's on top of yeah, coming,
Speaker 1: it's on top of the heat. It's on top of
Speaker 1: the heat because I just printed it off this morning. Alright,
Speaker 1: you can't see me, but I'm sitting here that fistful
Speaker 1: of print outs. What happens? Does He's come into an
Speaker 1: account the contact if you go to like the meat
Speaker 1: the meat eater dot com and go to the contact
Speaker 1: thing you write a letter. It's like, I get that
Speaker 1: on one of my accounts and I'll be like huh
Speaker 1: if I if it catches my eye, I'll be like huh,
Speaker 1: and I'll afford it to my regular email and there
Speaker 1: I will print it off and putting this big giant
Speaker 1: pile of things that keep meaning to bring up. Here's
Speaker 1: another one about Yannis Yanni's going on and on and
Speaker 1: on about how there's no difference between the thirty or
Speaker 1: six and three mag particularly where a guy was saying
Speaker 1: a guy Yanni was saying, Yanni was talking annoyedly. That's
Speaker 1: not a word, but Yanni was. Someone was saying, Oh,
Speaker 1: on this hunt, doesn't matter what hunter it was. He's like,
Speaker 1: on this hunt thirty all six ain't gonna cut it, um,
Speaker 1: you need a three win mag. And Janni was going
Speaker 1: on on and on about how there's really no difference,
Speaker 1: because he's saying, what's the difference? Who really cares? If
Speaker 1: you have? It's a thirty caliber bullet, so it's point
Speaker 1: three zero eight of an inch, weighs the same amount.
Speaker 1: So it's this projectile with a certain diameter, and this
Speaker 1: projectile has a certain weight, and it's going a certain speed.
Speaker 1: And he's pointing out that you have this set thing.
Speaker 1: You're talking about the same grain bullet, the same weight bullet,
Speaker 1: the same diameter, made of the same ship. What's the
Speaker 1: difference is it's flying out of your gun at three
Speaker 1: thousand one ft per second or what you honey, uh
Speaker 1: whatever fee per second? Um. As in the den of
Speaker 1: this idea, I'll point out that when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: I was born at the at what I call the
Speaker 1: Great Awakening of the thirty six. You guys lived in
Speaker 1: the shotgun area, Yeah, Michigan. There's a line at which
Speaker 1: there's a line across the state in the southern part
Speaker 1: of the state where if you live like north of
Speaker 1: that line, you can hunt with a center fire. You know,
Speaker 1: you home with a rifle. South of that line, you
Speaker 1: can only help with the shotgun, a muzzle loader. Do
Speaker 1: you know that? Cow? I did? I did not? You
Speaker 1: mean you weren't aware of Michigan shotgun rifle line. No,
Speaker 1: I wasn't, how insult exactly. I'm not well traveled man there.
Speaker 1: There is such a lot of our Midwest deer hunting
Speaker 1: states are shotgun only. But you know what they I
Speaker 1: just gotta I just saw a story about this. There's
Speaker 1: some new cartridge, some new rifle cartridge that you can
Speaker 1: now use in the shotgun area. Some giant, some crazy
Speaker 1: giant thing I'm not real familiar with, some slow lobbery
Speaker 1: you're allowed to use in the or something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it is, but not but something like that. Um So, anyways,
Speaker 1: prior like when I was born, everybody had a thirty
Speaker 1: thirty it was called it was known as a brush gun.
Speaker 1: But then and that's all everybody had. And then right
Speaker 1: around when I turned fourteen, everyone was going out and
Speaker 1: buying a thirty at six. It was only like two
Speaker 1: guns that existed. You either had a thirty thirty or
Speaker 1: you were anxious about getting your thirty ot six. I
Speaker 1: had never heard of most guns. When I moved in Montana,
Speaker 1: everybody had two seventies and three d Win mags. Is like, huh,
Speaker 1: I was packing the thirty hot six. Probably soon after
Speaker 1: that's when the short magnum craze started. Right right about
Speaker 1: it was the first act that first going to first
Speaker 1: non nine old gun that someone gave to me. Gun
Speaker 1: I bought was a short mag um. Another side note,
Speaker 1: this thirty oh six. All the numbers and guns mean
Speaker 1: different things. What do you do you know what thirty
Speaker 1: thirty means? Yeah? Thirty Well, originally when it got its name,
Speaker 1: it was the third The first thirty is for thirty caliber,
Speaker 1: and then the second thirty was for thirty grains of
Speaker 1: powder behind it. Okay, thirty oh six is thirty caliber.
Speaker 1: Come out in six introducing six, so it wasn't new
Speaker 1: in ninety four. Well, I got a little bit of
Speaker 1: a jump on the legal minimum shooting age and and
Speaker 1: and uh got a little bit of a head start
Speaker 1: on app But anyways, whatever year I had, I was
Speaker 1: still I was shooting a thirty two special, which was
Speaker 1: old time even compared to a thirty thirty peep site
Speaker 1: on it, so Winchester model. Anyhow, this guy writes in
Speaker 1: to say to take Yanni to task. He says, you
Speaker 1: guys talked about how the only difference between the thirty
Speaker 1: oh six and the three wind Meg is velocity, which
Speaker 1: is technically true, but the argument for the wind mag
Speaker 1: is not velocity. For velocity's sake, I didn't print this
Speaker 1: guy's name off, which is bumming me out. For an
Speaker 1: equivalent bullet weight, what you're really gaining with the three
Speaker 1: wind Meg versus the thirty oh six is increased kinetic energy,
Speaker 1: which could loosely be correlated as stopping power. My old
Speaker 1: man during Whiskey Whiskey to World War Two, my old
Speaker 1: man said that the sniper shot thirty oh six is
Speaker 1: m M true. He carried a Tommy gun um and
Speaker 1: he had a B A R. I believe in the
Speaker 1: Tommy gun for a while, but he said there's that
Speaker 1: was the gun that was like the So even back then,
Speaker 1: I don't want I don't want people to come away
Speaker 1: me thinking thinking that somehow the thirty out six became
Speaker 1: cool in the eighties. Um. He goes out to say
Speaker 1: what the formula for for uh kinetic energy is. But
Speaker 1: here's the important part. Since you're squaring the velocity. So
Speaker 1: when okay, I will tell you the formula for kinetic energy.
Speaker 1: Kinetic energy is one halftimes mass times velocity squared. Since
Speaker 1: you're squaring the velocity, a moderate increase increase in speed
Speaker 1: provides more than a linear increase in energy. So, using
Speaker 1: Yanni's one hundred grain bullet as an example, a three
Speaker 1: hundred wind meg throwing that one eight grain bullet at
Speaker 1: three thousand, one hundred and fifty ft per second is
Speaker 1: putting out three thousand, nine hundred seventy two foot pounds
Speaker 1: of energy, and the anemic little thirty oh six Yanni's
Speaker 1: a little thirty oh six throwing the same bullet at
Speaker 1: two thousand, seven hundred feet per second, So four hundred
Speaker 1: fifty less ft per second is a full thousand less
Speaker 1: pounds of connect energy. A seventeen percent increase in velocity
Speaker 1: yields a thirty seven percent increase in energy. You have it,
Speaker 1: it's not the same. No, I would carrying this piece
Speaker 1: of paper on, waving this piece of paper in Johanni's
Speaker 1: face for months, wanting to bring this up. I want
Speaker 1: to go ahead, then you can. You can say what
Speaker 1: you gotta say, Guy goes on to say. Guy goes
Speaker 1: on to kind of wind. He winds up sounding a
Speaker 1: little bit like like the eagle, because he goes on
Speaker 1: to say, that's the physics of it, but doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1: Ask the smartest hunter, you know how many footpounds it
Speaker 1: takes to killing elk. I think by that he means
Speaker 1: they're not going to know. More energy results in increased
Speaker 1: hydro static shock pressure, but good luck quantifying that. As
Speaker 1: it relates to killing a large animal, there is a
Speaker 1: point of diminishing returns, and Janice is correct to say
Speaker 1: that it is better to shoot a caliber you are
Speaker 1: comfortable with so you can make a good shot to
Speaker 1: the vitals. There is also the issue of too much
Speaker 1: energy in meat wastage. Velocity is obviously also tied the
Speaker 1: bullet drop, but that's a separate issue that can be
Speaker 1: solved with practice and a range finder, says odds are good.
Speaker 1: You guys already know all this. I just need an
Speaker 1: excuse to take a break from my yard work. Okay,
Speaker 1: now go ahead. Well, I think when we when I
Speaker 1: read that email earlier, I didn't catch those the last
Speaker 1: two where he starts signing like you, Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: just gonna be my follow up. So you're gonna say
Speaker 1: the same thing he's I appreciate the man sign off.
Speaker 1: That was well writ email there. No, he did a
Speaker 1: good job. Let print his name off. I'll look up
Speaker 1: his name. Any thoughts about that, Kelly him you shoot
Speaker 1: a three wind Meg. I love the three mag Yeah,
Speaker 1: the very similar that. I mean, like, the whole historic
Speaker 1: lineage of this is a bigger argument than just when
Speaker 1: you break it down to the numbers, I feel like,
Speaker 1: because it kind of comes down to experience and what
Speaker 1: you're comfortable with and what you've seen perform well in
Speaker 1: the field. And yeah, just the difference between growing up
Speaker 1: in Michigan and growing growing up in Montana. Um it uh.
Speaker 1: You had access to different things at different times, and
Speaker 1: and like you talk about the thirty six coming onto
Speaker 1: the scene and what that did for hunting and the
Speaker 1: availability of ammunition that it wasn't really that great because
Speaker 1: it was all of World War two surplus stuff. I
Speaker 1: don't think great for big game animals, but that could
Speaker 1: have made lifelong thirty six fans and lifelong thirty six opponents. Um,
Speaker 1: which you know, leads you down the path to different calibers.
Speaker 1: And then there's the there's the old like, well it
Speaker 1: works for me at which is hard to argue against.
Speaker 1: It's very hard to argue against. Okay, right, here's the
Speaker 1: guy exactly my age. He includes his age and he's
Speaker 1: exactly my age. His name's Brian Um. He goes on
Speaker 1: to say, spent some years since I've really been out
Speaker 1: in the wilderness. Your thoughtful discussions with intelligent members of
Speaker 1: the hunting and fishing and wilderness management community have reignited
Speaker 1: that love of wilderness and wildness. I was especially impressed
Speaker 1: with episode seventy two American Wilderness, which highlights how important
Speaker 1: wilderness is to our national identity and heritage, and that
Speaker 1: wilderness as untouched lands and quote untouched is somewhat of
Speaker 1: a myth. We tend to these lands to manage them
Speaker 1: and maintain their wilderness character. I'm reminded of something I
Speaker 1: read by Michael Pollen regarding wilderness and his essay The
Speaker 1: Idea of a Garden from his book Second Nature. He
Speaker 1: addresses this idea of wilderness where he writes, this is
Speaker 1: Michael Pollen writing, at this point in history, after humans
Speaker 1: have left their stamp on virtually every corner of the earth,
Speaker 1: doing nothing is frequently a poor recipe for wilderness. He
Speaker 1: goes on to say. Pollend goes on to right, the
Speaker 1: inescapable fact is that if we want wilderness here, we
Speaker 1: will have to choose which wilderness we want, an idea
Speaker 1: that is inimicable, inimical to the wilderness ethic. Interesting bit
Speaker 1: of follow up, Yeah, don't agree. So what this gentleman,
Speaker 1: wilderness don't have by accident anymore, and your idea of
Speaker 1: I guess he's arguing the purity of wilderness. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: it's a managed landscape in our country's history, I think
Speaker 1: we like for a long time we had wilderness in
Speaker 1: spite of our best efforts to get rid of it,
Speaker 1: and now we have some because of our best efforts
Speaker 1: to preserve it. That switch happened like around you know,
Speaker 1: it was a round like worked and work to work,
Speaker 1: and work to work to to to conquer it, and
Speaker 1: then we had this like awkward transitional period and then
Speaker 1: we worked and worked and work and work and work
Speaker 1: to hang onto some of it. Right. Yeah, absolutely can't.
Speaker 1: Can't cut a road up there, or I cut a
Speaker 1: road up there, and the avalanches keep knocking the thing down,
Speaker 1: So we're just not going to go up there. Made
Speaker 1: a choice to just quit going up there cutting it.
Speaker 1: Here's from a guy named Richard. Now this one really
Speaker 1: struck a nerve with Yanni. This guy is saying this,
Speaker 1: I've been hunting for the last seven years and yet
Speaker 1: to close the deal on a deer, so seven years
Speaker 1: as Feather has been at it. I never grew up hunting,
Speaker 1: but have always been interested in it. I took up
Speaker 1: archery and rifle hunting when I turned thirty. My first
Speaker 1: year archery hunting, I had a spike come in at
Speaker 1: five yards, but buck fever was so bad I could
Speaker 1: barely pull in time. Second year, I had a bad
Speaker 1: shot on a dough at twenty five yards. I was
Speaker 1: crushed and then wanted to quit after that, so I
Speaker 1: gather he crippled up a door and ever found her.
Speaker 1: I moved to Idaho a couple of years ago, so
Speaker 1: right in your backyard cow. Yesterday I missed a deer
Speaker 1: at two d yards. My oak season starts on Wednesday,
Speaker 1: and I'm having serious doubts as the weather I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be able to do this? At what point do I
Speaker 1: call it good? In just six sept that I'm not
Speaker 1: good at it. I hate that I have spent countless
Speaker 1: hours and time and money pursuing this with very little
Speaker 1: to show for it outside of rabbits. I think if
Speaker 1: I quit without getting a deer elk, It's gonna bug me.
Speaker 1: My hunting buddies think I'm being too hard on myself.
Speaker 1: But am I? You said one of your podcast you
Speaker 1: were quit hunting if it was no longer fun and
Speaker 1: there was no meat. I think I'm at that point.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what should I do. Should I press
Speaker 1: on Richard, no me and no fun? That'd be a
Speaker 1: good T shirt. No meat, no fun that is a
Speaker 1: great T shirt. Like my daughter says, she says, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we won't have a meal to eat, but we'll have
Speaker 1: a story. It sounds like Richard's got a lot of stories.
Speaker 1: Are you truly not having fun? Though? Like I mean,
Speaker 1: I've had some every he here is Yeah, my god,
Speaker 1: the misery we could pass on to people if that
Speaker 1: were possible, But there was always something that comes out
Speaker 1: of that trip. Seven years. Yeah, I know, it's a
Speaker 1: hell of a dry spell seven year but you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many places to go with this.
Speaker 1: He's a he's a better human because of those seven
Speaker 1: years spent. And look, he doesn't say how many days
Speaker 1: of field per season he's spent. I'm sorry, but Richard
Speaker 1: might only be hunting a couple of three days. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe he needs to put in a month of archery
Speaker 1: hunting and then see where his luck stands. You know. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean you can like national averages. I haven't looked
Speaker 1: in a few years, but you know, the majority of
Speaker 1: the hunting population is getting a long weekend at the
Speaker 1: most is what gets recorded. So you know, if this
Speaker 1: guy's getting out during archery and rifle season, he you know,
Speaker 1: it could be a week total, let's say, or maybe
Speaker 1: he's hunted fourteen days in his life. Yeah, yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 1: the years doesn't really that doesn't really work that well.
Speaker 1: And I think he's only you know, if he kills
Speaker 1: one this year on his eighth year, he'd be just
Speaker 1: a little bit less than like the national success rate, right,
Speaker 1: because I mean we hover somewhere between like ten and
Speaker 1: thirty depend on if it's archery or you know me
Speaker 1: for general over the counter success. I'm gonna come at
Speaker 1: him more practically. I think that, like I think that
Speaker 1: the guy just kind of gotta have he's a little
Speaker 1: bit of I think you stick with it. I think
Speaker 1: he needs a little bit of success. I think the
Speaker 1: way they'll find that success. I don't know how he's
Speaker 1: sort of gauging what he's after, but I just have
Speaker 1: a real hard time thinking that in the state he
Speaker 1: lives in, if he goes out and carves out a
Speaker 1: week a time to go out with his rifle and
Speaker 1: he's committed to shooting a legal deer, he's gonna go
Speaker 1: spend seven days out in a general unit and and
Speaker 1: get a nice less than one shot yard shot at
Speaker 1: a four key deer with his rifle, that he's not
Speaker 1: gonna be able to do that. I agree. I don't
Speaker 1: care if you just I don't care what you know.
Speaker 1: If you can learn how to shoot at one hundred
Speaker 1: yards and hit and just walk around in the woods
Speaker 1: and you have in mind that you find the legal deer,
Speaker 1: a good shot at legal deer and give yourself seven days.
Speaker 1: I don't think you're gonna come up empty handed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that that may be generous. I think our
Speaker 1: friend Richard is probably like right at that cusp of
Speaker 1: doing one thing and being like, holy shit, it's that easy.
Speaker 1: It's all gonna click. Stick with it. Yeah, I really don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, that's the whole idea of quitment.
Speaker 1: I don't really get the whole quitting Like I'm not.
Speaker 1: I quit one thing one time where I was always
Speaker 1: curious about chess, and my nephew sat down to explain
Speaker 1: chess to me, and after about fifteen minutes, I was like,
Speaker 1: never mind, because once I knew that it would take
Speaker 1: that much just to be sucky, right, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to get involved in it. I thought it was like
Speaker 1: a little more complicated than checkers, right, sure, But once
Speaker 1: I was like, oh that's what chess is, just never
Speaker 1: mind because I'm not gonna This isn't something I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna toy with. I'm either gonna do it or not
Speaker 1: do it. And I see now that I am not
Speaker 1: gonna like, I'm not gonna devote like I don't have
Speaker 1: the time to figure this out to the degree that
Speaker 1: I would want to figure it out if I would
Speaker 1: start dabbling, right, And and you're thinking that to you,
Speaker 1: your fund comes when you're at least proficient at something
Speaker 1: like I like to play Sneaky Snaky Squirrel with my kids.
Speaker 1: I have I'm able to play at a highly competitive level, right,
Speaker 1: and I have it dialed so it's enjoyable to me.
Speaker 1: But chess wasn't gonna be like Sneaky Snaky Squirrel. So
Speaker 1: where you trying to get all the acorns? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: guess I am very biased here, but I don't under
Speaker 1: if I guess you gotta ask you if you are
Speaker 1: truly not having fun, which I just don't see as
Speaker 1: as an actual possibility unless this seven years has just
Speaker 1: been fraught with some series of you know, god awful
Speaker 1: and unfortunate events. Uh went into the woods, house burned down,
Speaker 1: went into the wood, dog died, went into the woods. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you are truly not having fun, yeah, find yourself
Speaker 1: a different Yeah. If you're like, you're out there and
Speaker 1: the sun's rising, you're like sunrise. I hate seeing those.
Speaker 1: I hate natures that damn birds chirping. Yeah, he probably quit,
Speaker 1: but that's not what he wouldn't be writing in if
Speaker 1: thous case. Here's the thing two, Just as an inspirational point,
Speaker 1: I'll sure um I had a very bad pumpkin year
Speaker 1: in my garden two thousand and six. Team will go
Speaker 1: down as a bad pumpkin year. I came out of
Speaker 1: that wanting to become a pumpkin enthusiast. I've been reading
Speaker 1: up on how to grow world record pumpkins. So I'm
Speaker 1: taking like loss and failure and turning it into becoming
Speaker 1: a pumpkin enthusiast. I'm not writing letters to people about
Speaker 1: quit and growing pumpkins. Had some stolen the ones I
Speaker 1: did have her so small they were ridiculed by my
Speaker 1: wife from children. They went out and bought other pumpkins.
Speaker 1: Car like the pumpkins weren't good enough for him. We
Speaker 1: ate one. Okay, our episode of wit Fosberg episode ninety
Speaker 1: I think it was ninety really touched nerve and read
Speaker 1: three pieces of feedback about this episode. Maybe yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna read three pieces of feedback. Here's one. Here's one
Speaker 1: version of a way to take that. What was with
Speaker 1: Fosberg from Theodore Roosevelt conservation partnership reached out to us
Speaker 1: or not when my same reached out to us. Came
Speaker 1: on the show and we did sort of a walk
Speaker 1: around the country looking at leading conservation issues around the
Speaker 1: country that affect hunters and anglers and fishing wildlife, or
Speaker 1: affect fishing, hunt affect hunters and anglers through their impacts
Speaker 1: on fishing wild life, and then talked about a couple
Speaker 1: other like perennial conservation issues that just never really go away.
Speaker 1: One guy says this to say, thank you very much
Speaker 1: for it. Guys, I love the wonky conservation talk, and
Speaker 1: he was very knowledgeable. Thank you for the work that
Speaker 1: you do with this podcast. Here's where it gets interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm not a hunter. I have a very stereotypically liberal
Speaker 1: person and a city planner, but this podcast has helped
Speaker 1: me become better informed and now I actively support the
Speaker 1: hunters in my community. There's one way to take that,
Speaker 1: here's no way to take it. Really enjoy your podcast,
Speaker 1: to find it informative and interesting. I like the hunting stories,
Speaker 1: which are the best part of hunting. The historical info,
Speaker 1: like the history of the elk on Kodiak on the
Speaker 1: Kodiak Archipelago, in scientific information your guests have on the
Speaker 1: environment and animal species that inhabit those environments. Your podcast
Speaker 1: is a great diversion from the current news of the day.
Speaker 1: He goes on to say some other very kind things.
Speaker 1: UM goes on to have an observation about feeling uh,
Speaker 1: you know, pressures being that that are on hunting and wildlife,
Speaker 1: and it goes out to here's where he airs his grievance.
Speaker 1: This guy's named advance UM. And it goes on it
Speaker 1: has some very valid arguments and I and I feel
Speaker 1: those frustrations where he says, as usual, I noticed you
Speaker 1: had a new podcast today, episode ninety, so I did
Speaker 1: my work. I plugged in the earbuds and started listening.
Speaker 1: I heard a person talk about a lot of various
Speaker 1: stats and facts on past and current game numbers and
Speaker 1: making sure access to public lands stay open, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Then over and over again, I heard this person repeat
Speaker 1: leftist talking points with no rebuttal from you. Once this
Speaker 1: person made the statement that the U S should not
Speaker 1: have withdrawn from the Paris climate cord, I had heard
Speaker 1: enough and ended my listening session. This told me this
Speaker 1: person was either foolish, slash delusional or simply a hardcore,
Speaker 1: unabashed leftist with no rebuttal from you. I have to
Speaker 1: assume you basically agree with this wolf in sheep's clothing.
Speaker 1: I obviously do not personally know Mr Fosberg. I'm simply
Speaker 1: forming an opinion based on his own words. If these
Speaker 1: are the type of people you support, but which I
Speaker 1: guess he means. If I would support a person who
Speaker 1: has a personal opinion about that it was a mistake
Speaker 1: to withdraw from the Paris climate a chord, then I
Speaker 1: will move on. It makes your podcast into another a
Speaker 1: media media attack on people like me. Just be warned
Speaker 1: that a leftist like this, when the time comes, will
Speaker 1: cut the throats of hunters everywhere. Give him the chance.
Speaker 1: Um a couple of thoughts there one advance really like,
Speaker 1: really gonna stop listening? That is heartbreaking to me. If
Speaker 1: I had stopped listening to everyone that said something I
Speaker 1: didn't agree with, I wouldn't listen and talk to you,
Speaker 1: cal you, Yanni, or my wife or my kids. There
Speaker 1: would be no one at all I would listen to,
Speaker 1: and I would just have to separate myself from everyone
Speaker 1: I know. Put your head in a hole in the ground,
Speaker 1: put my head in the hole in the ground, because
Speaker 1: it is unavoidable that you will find a way to
Speaker 1: only hear things you agree with. So I just feel
Speaker 1: like you should reconsider if you're out there and you're
Speaker 1: apparently not, I feel you should reconsider, um the other
Speaker 1: part of it. And I see this quite often where
Speaker 1: I finally like, you'll have a guy like with Fosburgh
Speaker 1: who devotes his life to hunting and fishing. So that's
Speaker 1: what he did growing up, that's what he does now.
Speaker 1: He's devoted his life to hunting and fishing, and it it
Speaker 1: was inspired by his love of hunting and fishing to
Speaker 1: advocate on behalf of fishing wildlife. And there's like this
Speaker 1: thing that happens, this sort of movement that happens often
Speaker 1: you hear like the green decoy thing or whatever, where
Speaker 1: it's like people go like, oh, if you have some
Speaker 1: viewpoints that are regard as like a liberal viewpoint, then
Speaker 1: you don't really actually like hunting and fishing, even though
Speaker 1: that's all you've done your whole life, and even though
Speaker 1: your career is based on hunting fishing, you don't actually
Speaker 1: like it, and you will cut the throat of hunters
Speaker 1: and fishermen first chance you get. It's like as though
Speaker 1: looking for the enemies of hunting and fishing, you have
Speaker 1: identified the people who like it most to be the
Speaker 1: one who would like betray whereas a guy that hunts
Speaker 1: and fishes and doesn't give a rats ass about fishing
Speaker 1: while they've habitat is somehow more trustworthy. Like I like I,
Speaker 1: I don't understand the perspective. I understand, um, what it's
Speaker 1: like to be annoyed by someone's viewpoint. Like if I'm
Speaker 1: talking to someone and they're telling me how they think
Speaker 1: that under no circumstances should there be capital punishment, for instance,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, dude, I totally disagree. I don't
Speaker 1: then be like, and you know what, I disagree, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna be the guy that turns your back on
Speaker 1: hunters and fishermen. I just like, I don't see that.
Speaker 1: I don't see the correlation. Yeah, you know something I'd
Speaker 1: like to bring up with that is that, um, we
Speaker 1: hear that a lot about who that these people would
Speaker 1: do this, and you would think that this is like
Speaker 1: a real thing that maybe over the course of history,
Speaker 1: over the course of hunters being conservationist, we would have
Speaker 1: like an example and where these people could be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: remember so and so that's some bitch. He hunted and
Speaker 1: fish his whole life. He was just baiting the trap,
Speaker 1: just baiting the chap and then he did it. He
Speaker 1: did this whatever some hunting and fishing guys. However, however,
Speaker 1: he did it, you know, with some legislation or some
Speaker 1: rule or law or who knows what. But yeah, if
Speaker 1: you have an example of that, please because I'd like
Speaker 1: to understand it better. Um, you know, and we flirted
Speaker 1: around with political discussions all the time. And the reason
Speaker 1: politics makes me uneasy because I'm fifty real conservative and
Speaker 1: real liberal depending on what part of the things I'm
Speaker 1: looking at. So I'm like completely alienated by politics. There's
Speaker 1: virtually no politician that I respect, um because I, no
Speaker 1: matter what, disagree with half the stuff out of their mouth.
Speaker 1: Uh No, here's another guy who said something. Here's here's
Speaker 1: the kind of that I really like. Here's the guy
Speaker 1: saying where Wit was wrong about something? So thank you
Speaker 1: for writing in has enjoyed the last show is to
Speaker 1: do every episode to keep up the good work. But
Speaker 1: with Fossburg was incorrect when he said hunting is permitted
Speaker 1: in Maine woods and waters National Monument. So so the
Speaker 1: Cadada National Monument. I gin that's how you pronounced is
Speaker 1: how you pronounce account. You know, it's like one of
Speaker 1: those annoying names where you're like, no, it's Sherry tells me, yeah, Stefan,
Speaker 1: not Steve. So he goes on to say it is
Speaker 1: in fact prohibited in the majority a small portion on
Speaker 1: the east side of the Panov Scott River. I believe.
Speaker 1: Now I wentn't check down the mapter and this guy's right.
Speaker 1: The bulk of that monument you can't hunt. There's a
Speaker 1: handful of black east of that river that you can hunt.
Speaker 1: So we were wrong, he says. As a registered main guy,
Speaker 1: I strongly opposed this, He goes Honestly, I'm very supportive
Speaker 1: of conservation and preservation efforts with regard to this landscape.
Speaker 1: He says his opinion the timber industry has decimated the
Speaker 1: forests of Maine. I say this as a former lagger,
Speaker 1: maybe a future lagger again, but as a hunter, I
Speaker 1: am deeply troubled by the loss of hunting access to
Speaker 1: this large area, especially when it provided the type of
Speaker 1: remote experience which is steadily disappearing in the Northeast. For
Speaker 1: this reason alone, the monument does not have my support
Speaker 1: on this issue. Ryan Zinkie and I agree. Please correct
Speaker 1: this air and make hunters aware of this law of
Speaker 1: the loss of this once great opportunity. We cannot stand
Speaker 1: to lose many more of such areas. This guy's named Bill. Bill.
Speaker 1: I totally agree with you man, in any case, in
Speaker 1: any possible scenario, hunting and fishing and in my opinion,
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing should be allowed on national monuments only,
Speaker 1: not only because I believe in extending hunting and fishing
Speaker 1: access wherever possible, just as a jet as a rule,
Speaker 1: but particularly with national monuments, because why deprived the This
Speaker 1: is like the side thing. Why deprived the monument of
Speaker 1: that level of engagement from the public. The best buddies
Speaker 1: you can have, The best buddies you can have when
Speaker 1: it comes to wildlife management and land management is the
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing crowd. Stay on their good side you
Speaker 1: will have. Right now, we're having this big national debate
Speaker 1: about the legitimacy of monuments. When having that argument and
Speaker 1: fighting that fight, you should have hunters and fishermen on
Speaker 1: your side. What was Cold Dad Uh Woods and Waters
Speaker 1: National Monument before it was a national monument. That's not
Speaker 1: the place that was collections of public lands. I believe
Speaker 1: there's a huge private in holding too. Isn't this the
Speaker 1: bird's bees wax story? I don't know? Trying to find
Speaker 1: out more quickly. Well, this feller is calling it a loss.
Speaker 1: Yann to keep checking it as we go. We'll return
Speaker 1: to this idea in a minute. I hate to think
Speaker 1: that it jumped into this unprepared. Well, I'm just doing mail.
Speaker 1: We're talking about this guy, Quentin hunting. Oh, here's a
Speaker 1: good one, right for this calian. This brings up two
Speaker 1: points you wanted to bring up or tease them up.
Speaker 1: Scott says, Hey, I was just listening to this podcast
Speaker 1: and you were speaking about certain species of fish you
Speaker 1: need to bleed and others who don't. You brought up
Speaker 1: the fact that most of the species you bleed are
Speaker 1: red meat fishes. I believe the reason you bleed some
Speaker 1: species and not others is because of the types of
Speaker 1: muscle they possess. White flesh fish such as walleye and
Speaker 1: perch have muscle compositions of primarily anaerobic muscle because of
Speaker 1: the burst of motions swimming style they employ, meaning fish
Speaker 1: lays in the bottom kind of chills. See something he
Speaker 1: wants to eat whilst ass over there and grabs it
Speaker 1: real fast and then goes back and chills out like
Speaker 1: anaerobic bursts of energy. Salmon, on the contrary, presents possess
Speaker 1: primarily aerobic muscles because they participate in sustained swimming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like a salmon doesn't go land the bottom in the ocean.
Speaker 1: He's like a plagic fish cruising around all the time.
Speaker 1: This guy goes on to say the aerobic muscles require
Speaker 1: higher rates of respiration, which need a greater blood supply
Speaker 1: to the muscles. I'm not positive about this, but the
Speaker 1: correlation seems to be great, and the theories seem to
Speaker 1: be backed by what I have learned in my collegiate classes.
Speaker 1: Just food for thought. Now, this aerobic anaerobic muscle thing
Speaker 1: is interesting because if you look at like, think of
Speaker 1: game birds, all the game birds, you know, waterfowl upland
Speaker 1: which ones have white flesh breasts and which ones have
Speaker 1: dark flesh breasts kyl Yeah, Well, pheasants r at the
Speaker 1: ditch chicken classic white white meat bird chills out and
Speaker 1: has an occasional explosive flight rough grouse chills, occasional explosive flight,
Speaker 1: dark meat, not dark dark um, not like a goose.
Speaker 1: Birds are kind of in this category, a little darker.
Speaker 1: It's a spectrum. It's a spectrum, sure, but it's a
Speaker 1: little dark tim a little darker. No difference in behavior. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but what I'm talking about is this, I'm talking about
Speaker 1: talking about waterfowl. Oh yeah, waterfowl s. No goose breast
Speaker 1: very dark. This guy would get up and he's gonna
Speaker 1: cover hundreds of miles in a single flight, sustained flight,
Speaker 1: dark dark meat. Yes, and think about a wild turkey.
Speaker 1: Where's the dark meat on a wild turkey? All the
Speaker 1: legs up on his feet, one and around all the time,
Speaker 1: white breast, short bursts of flight. Yeah, now, now here's
Speaker 1: a weird deal. You look at a sage grouse. I
Speaker 1: think got a sage grouse. His thighs are lighter than
Speaker 1: his breast. So I don't think it's a universal principle,
Speaker 1: but it is interesting. And just to bring it back
Speaker 1: around to the fish thing, I think that there's something
Speaker 1: too it. I have like grown up fish and fresh
Speaker 1: water in the Great Lakes, right. I never once met
Speaker 1: a guy who bleeds waally or bleeds perch or bleeds bluegill. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and then most guy, anyone that knows anything,
Speaker 1: bleeds salmon. And you and I are ripped a couple
Speaker 1: of gills on rockfish just because just out of habit
Speaker 1: and there's nothing happens. You know. My brother said, I
Speaker 1: was asking my brother Danny, who is a fisheries biologist,
Speaker 1: about that rock fish has such a slow metabolism, has
Speaker 1: such a slow sorry, has such a slow like slow
Speaker 1: low flow blood flow. Yeah, that when you bleed him,
Speaker 1: it doesn't force any blood out. Yeah, super small heart
Speaker 1: moves very slow because they're living to be twenty years old.
Speaker 1: You know. There's an idea about animals. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like roughly is like a heart is good for so
Speaker 1: many beats. You have a finite amount of beats, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you want to like like how long is a mouse?
Speaker 1: Like what's a mouse's heart rate? And like mammals, okay,
Speaker 1: what like what's a mouse's heart rate? Very high? And
Speaker 1: how long does it live? Very short? Very low lifespan.
Speaker 1: So there's this idea that like a heart's good for
Speaker 1: so long, how long you live? It's like how long
Speaker 1: it's gonna take you to suck up the heartbeat that
Speaker 1: how long is it gonna take you to to use
Speaker 1: up your allotted quantity of heartbeats? And then it isn't
Speaker 1: being kind of interesting when you look at heart rates
Speaker 1: and life expectancy of different mammals and our our friend
Speaker 1: here is getting an extra beat every now and again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, he's burning through it even faster because of
Speaker 1: his problem. No, yeah, I mean that's what I'm telling you, guys,
Speaker 1: say that the people that suffer from that severe venturacle
Speaker 1: techiardia might be pronouncing that wrong, but that that's like,
Speaker 1: that's the the bad symptom of it is that your
Speaker 1: hearts doing too much work that it shouldn't be doing,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna wear out faster sooner. Yeah. Do you
Speaker 1: want to talk meat? Yeah? I can do another meat one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We can come back to this cataton thing too, if
Speaker 1: you guys want to. I can just reach like a
Speaker 1: real quick paragraph paraphrase paragraph from Wikipedia on the history
Speaker 1: of it, please, so we could at least know so.
Speaker 1: Roxanne Quimby, co founder of like Cal, said, bird's bees,
Speaker 1: like soaps and whatnot. Yeah, have sticks stuff began purchasing
Speaker 1: land near back to State Park in two thousand one
Speaker 1: before formally announcing their plans in two thousand eleven, and
Speaker 1: the land would one day become part of a national park.
Speaker 1: But there was state and federal opposition to those to
Speaker 1: those plans, and so they changed the focus to doing
Speaker 1: a national monument, which could just happen through uh the
Speaker 1: Antiquities Act and the proclamation by a president. So they
Speaker 1: did that on um well, August six. They donated land
Speaker 1: valued at sixty million, plus twenty million in additional funds
Speaker 1: for operations and then a commitment of twenty more million
Speaker 1: in future support to the federal government so they could
Speaker 1: keep the thing going. So then August August sorry, Obama
Speaker 1: proclaimed thousand, five d sixty three acres of land as
Speaker 1: the Canada Woods and Waters National Monument. So that's only
Speaker 1: beef with what was his name, Bruce, I can't remember
Speaker 1: with with with with you know him right in that
Speaker 1: they bought it up, so they didn't buy it from
Speaker 1: the state. So that's totally like, that's totally in the gates. Yeah. See,
Speaker 1: it's such a confusing world. This is the monument issue
Speaker 1: is incredibly confusing, and the issue from my perspective, is
Speaker 1: always that each one is much more of an individual
Speaker 1: versus let's say wilderness. Right, people have a basic understanding
Speaker 1: of wilderness. Uh, probably because of the name. They're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a whild what what flies and what doesn't fly?
Speaker 1: And what flies and what doesn't fly? Right, And most
Speaker 1: folks who go outdoors can be like, oh, yeah, wilderness.
Speaker 1: I think you can't ride your bike in there is
Speaker 1: and you can't operate heavy machinery, you can't have a chain.
Speaker 1: Virtually true. Virtually true. You're right, Um with the monuments. Uh, gosh, man,
Speaker 1: I have no excuse not to be fully up to
Speaker 1: date on this story. But I believe because of the
Speaker 1: nature of you're going from private land, uh, acquired by
Speaker 1: the federal government. Um, that came with some strings attached. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure so that may all right? Damn it, yeah,
Speaker 1: damn it should should have been more well r at
Speaker 1: on this one. Well, you know what, you know, I
Speaker 1: could go in. I have the power to go in
Speaker 1: and make it. This conversation never happened, and that the
Speaker 1: letter never came. You're just going through your mail. But
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna because I'm just gonna leave it over
Speaker 1: to the fact that like, um, it's a tricky, complicated
Speaker 1: world out there, you know. Yeah to the gentleman that
Speaker 1: road in, yeah, check that out man. Maybe the feller,
Speaker 1: the b guy that bought up all the land, whoever
Speaker 1: used to own it, was like, come on, come all,
Speaker 1: hunting fish all you want. So maybe that's what's going on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's possible. I um, there are ways, uh to
Speaker 1: make some changes, Like let's walk through this one as
Speaker 1: it just to explain like a way that a public
Speaker 1: land thing can become public. We haven't talked about Sabanosa,
Speaker 1: Am I saying it right? Sabanosa? Okay, Now, in New Mexico,
Speaker 1: you have a wilderness area that was completely landlocked, and
Speaker 1: landlocked is and landlocked means we had a a federally managed,
Speaker 1: publicly owned wilderness area that you couldn't get to because
Speaker 1: any road there was no road access to it. There
Speaker 1: was no way to walk into it without crossing private property.
Speaker 1: So the wilderness area was basically a playground for anyone
Speaker 1: who happened to own a joining land. There was no
Speaker 1: legal way for you to like park your car and
Speaker 1: walk into the wilderness. And because it's wilderness and you
Speaker 1: can't fly in and land a helicopter. There was no
Speaker 1: way to get there. Yeah, unless you wanted to pay
Speaker 1: uh an access fee or uh perhaps going with an
Speaker 1: outfitter that was operating off of one of those private holdings,
Speaker 1: so you could pay your way in. You could pay
Speaker 1: your way in. But think of, man, it was off
Speaker 1: to the work and stuff. It was cut off to
Speaker 1: the work and stuff and what and think of the
Speaker 1: incentive to keep that stuff locked up at your landowner.
Speaker 1: You get an extra ultimately twenty thousand acres. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like I own a hundred acres, but actually I opened
Speaker 1: one acres because only me and a select few neighbors
Speaker 1: can get into this block in this chunk land. So
Speaker 1: a guy, this is a cool story that just happened.
Speaker 1: The guy owns one of the there's a guy that
Speaker 1: owns one of these ranches that borders the wilderness aary,
Speaker 1: the Sabinosa Wilderness. They owns one of these ranches, and
Speaker 1: his ranch is a bridge. There's a bridge between this
Speaker 1: wilderness area that the public owns but can't access in
Speaker 1: the road and public easement. Yeah, he comes to the
Speaker 1: federal government and says, I'd like to give you guys
Speaker 1: this ranch I would like to donate this ranch to
Speaker 1: the American people so that the American people can access
Speaker 1: their piece of land that they're now not able to
Speaker 1: get at. It took a little wrangling and Senators you
Speaker 1: Doll and Heinrich from New Mexico got involved in helping
Speaker 1: to orchestrate this deal, and Interior Secretary Zinkie got involved
Speaker 1: and how to orchestrate this deal, and it just became official.
Speaker 1: The ranch is now the property of the American people,
Speaker 1: managed for them by the federal government, and it is
Speaker 1: now an access point and trailhead to go into the
Speaker 1: sabinas the wilderness area. Yeah, I believe it's managed by
Speaker 1: the BLM. Is who's in charge of that wilderness they
Speaker 1: I was just hunting to patch a ground not long ago,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of like equipment ship laying around
Speaker 1: out in the mountains and a body mismy. He's like, dude,
Speaker 1: this used to all be private. It was purchased by
Speaker 1: the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation willing seller, willing buyer. It
Speaker 1: went up for sale. Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation took donor money,
Speaker 1: which is what the kind of their specialty. They took
Speaker 1: donor money bought the whole damn place and handed it
Speaker 1: over the BLM to manage. I didn't even know this.
Speaker 1: I've been hunting on it. Didn't even know that it
Speaker 1: was like r M e F purchase to become public land.
Speaker 1: Public land has there's like some complicated stories there, man,
Speaker 1: very complicated. Yeah, And and unfortunately on whatever side of
Speaker 1: this um, whether you'd like to see everything privatized or
Speaker 1: everything public, you can tell a pretty convincing story on
Speaker 1: either side, because nothing's totally black and white. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a guy I want to have on the podcast I've
Speaker 1: been reading up on lately who um Uh. His deal
Speaker 1: is is that public land doesn't really exist. His deal
Speaker 1: that like public land basically any public land that was
Speaker 1: traditionally grazed by livestock people is basically like a collaborative
Speaker 1: ownership between the grazer and the government. And there's no
Speaker 1: real such thing as public land as we understand it now.
Speaker 1: He thinks it's all a sham and it is this
Speaker 1: coming out of the basis of he comes out of
Speaker 1: the egg industry. Okay, but it's not like a land
Speaker 1: has no value until it is cultivated type of thought. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that kind of I think he I think he comes
Speaker 1: out of that angle. Okay, I'd like I want to
Speaker 1: get I want to contact him and have him on um.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't like. I like, even if he's right,
Speaker 1: I don't really care, right, I don't like like if
Speaker 1: someone said, you know what, I've looked and looked and looked,
Speaker 1: and it turns out that you should be able to
Speaker 1: enslave other individuals. I've I've studied the Constitution, and it
Speaker 1: turns out if you read it the right way, the
Speaker 1: way I interpret it, there's no problem with you going
Speaker 1: over to your neighbor and enslaving him at gunpoint. It's legal.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be like, okay, sweet, I'm gonna go and
Speaker 1: and enslave my neighbor now, right, Like, I don't really care,
Speaker 1: because it would still be it's just like, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, convert still be like, well, yeah, that
Speaker 1: might be true, but I'm not going to do that. Right,
Speaker 1: But I still like to talk to the guy that Sabonosa.
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of groups involved in that. And uh,
Speaker 1: I gotta go down there and and uh kind of
Speaker 1: take a quick tour of the place when Zinki visited,
Speaker 1: and and uh it's sweet country in there. So you
Speaker 1: had a look. Oh yeah, yeah, I had to look.
Speaker 1: See Now did you go down there? Were you, like
Speaker 1: in the company of the various political figures who were
Speaker 1: gathered down there? Yes, yeah, yeah, so I was invited
Speaker 1: down through you know, really a bunch of mutual friends,
Speaker 1: uh all of us UM and uh the National Wildlife
Speaker 1: Federation New Mexico Chapter UM has been a big part
Speaker 1: of that. UM back Country Hunters and Anglers UM uh
Speaker 1: and so so many groups at that point because it's
Speaker 1: been going on for over ten years, UM that I
Speaker 1: really shouldn't be listing anybody because lots of lots of
Speaker 1: folks involved. But really you do all Heinrich, the county
Speaker 1: commissioners blm um, they've they've really made it happen. So yeah,
Speaker 1: but gorgeous country odd ab uh invasive species but uh
Speaker 1: cool cheap country in their big elk, big mule deer.
Speaker 1: One of the volunteers kind of took me aside and
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, here, you're mule to you're gay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: check this out. And I was like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: So one of New Mexico Senators, Heinrich, who was involved
Speaker 1: in this while he was a senator. He went in
Speaker 1: to uh when National Forest was he hunting in It's
Speaker 1: the big name brand one that everybody we hunted it
Speaker 1: before him. Yeah, I'm sorry, I just kidding. Yeah, one
Speaker 1: of New Mexico senators while a senator went into the
Speaker 1: HeLa on a on a permit draw muzzloader hunt and
Speaker 1: killed a bull out with a muzzloader. Bad country. He's
Speaker 1: an end user, which is damn rare. Yeah, not many
Speaker 1: dudes in the Senate. Paul Ryan likes a hunt a lot.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't really know what all hunting
Speaker 1: Paul Ryan does. I know Paul Ryan likes to hunt
Speaker 1: a lot. Um tim it's important. Hinrich likes the hunt. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Paul Ryan is a big bow hunter. Yeah, big time.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much time he has for it now,
Speaker 1: So I got that guy spends a lot of time
Speaker 1: sort of situations out. Sounds like his neighborhood's pretty tough.
Speaker 1: I'd like to talk to him sometimes about hunt and yeah,
Speaker 1: and Heindrich likes it a bunch. No, just started listening
Speaker 1: to the podcast going backwards through him. That's cool. He's
Speaker 1: on the fish Shack and episode. Okay, never mind, all that.
Speaker 1: The guy's a sushi chef and you wanted to comment
Speaker 1: on something. We're talking about salmon making sushi and sashimi
Speaker 1: from your salmon, and how it's hard to get it
Speaker 1: the way that that that it is in a sushi restaurant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we're also talking about how most people won't do
Speaker 1: it with the coho that we had caught and that
Speaker 1: we were doing it with. Ye, and we're like, is
Speaker 1: it not the way? Yeah, We're like, is it not
Speaker 1: the way? It isn't a sushi restaurant because of what
Speaker 1: something we're doing, or is it because it's a coho
Speaker 1: and you'll never get it? To be right, I felt
Speaker 1: we felt like I've gotten a pretty good slice on it.
Speaker 1: It looked good, the presentation was nice. Just wasn't the same.
Speaker 1: That was a little different. But I'll point out I'll
Speaker 1: point this out to as a prelude to this guy's comment, Um,
Speaker 1: salmon have a high parasite load. And this is no
Speaker 1: joke Like I used to. Usually stuff like this, people
Speaker 1: start talking about food safety and all this. I usually
Speaker 1: brush a lot of that off and I pay the
Speaker 1: price for it. But I usually brushed all that stuff off.
Speaker 1: But it's no joke. Salmon. If you're eating raw salmon,
Speaker 1: you need to freeze that salmon and thought out they
Speaker 1: need it row. It's come from a guy who's eating
Speaker 1: pounds of it. Not done that way. But I've had
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are not hysterical and who
Speaker 1: are not sky is falling kind of folk who have said, bro,
Speaker 1: you gotta freeze it. You'll get sick. It's real. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I've been on the flip side of that coin. Anyways,
Speaker 1: this brother is saying this, and this is a great tip.
Speaker 1: I just I called my damn brother to tell him this.
Speaker 1: This guy's name is Kaido, it's a nickname. He's a
Speaker 1: chef and hunter from Michigan. He says, here's where you
Speaker 1: boys are screwing up. You need to take a sam
Speaker 1: This is for making sushi and sashimi out of salmon.
Speaker 1: You need to take that thing and cover it in
Speaker 1: kosher salt for eight minutes, absolutely no longer than ten minutes.
Speaker 1: Packet in salt in order to pull the extra water out,
Speaker 1: then freeze it, then slice it. What he's saying is this,
Speaker 1: When you freeze that thing, the water expands, the cell
Speaker 1: walls burst, because of water comes out. That's why when
Speaker 1: you vacuum seal a piece of salmon, right, you vaccal
Speaker 1: there's no water in there, whatever whatever, hell, but whatever
Speaker 1: your vaccal, there's no water in there. Putting your freezer thought,
Speaker 1: there's a few tables of water and you're like, where
Speaker 1: did that come from? It's being liberated from the fish
Speaker 1: through the freezing process, and it leads to a mushy
Speaker 1: quality product. He's saying, you gotta suck a bunch of
Speaker 1: that water up out of there by packing it and salt,
Speaker 1: pull some of the extra water out, and that is
Speaker 1: what gives you that firm buttery what he describes as
Speaker 1: the amazing buttery texture. Mm hmm. I can taste this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think One question about it though, is that after
Speaker 1: you take it out of the salt, Yes, do you
Speaker 1: just absolutely rinse it? Rinse it right? Yes, because you're
Speaker 1: never gonna I mean, how you gonna brush it off?
Speaker 1: And let's say if he says it skin flay. Also,
Speaker 1: you think I'm getting I would. My guests would be Kaido.
Speaker 1: Can he has to rewrite in now? Yeah? Mom, guessing
Speaker 1: that he's he's got to be skinless. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can see both ways kind of
Speaker 1: right back in. Dude, Well up, no, not skinning it.
Speaker 1: And but I'm gonna listen. I think he's onto something.
Speaker 1: I know exactly what that something Gunn is talking about. Okay,
Speaker 1: what was the two things you were going to bring up? Oh,
Speaker 1: this is just having your ear to the railroad tracks. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Dry aging or just aging meat? Is it necessary? Does
Speaker 1: it actually make a difference, um my experience? If I
Speaker 1: think it's always better to let things relax for as
Speaker 1: long as you can stand it, at least twenty four hours,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna butt in at least twenty four hours because
Speaker 1: that's how long read it takes for the brigamoret. It's
Speaker 1: too enter and then leave. Yeah, however, I've done it
Speaker 1: immediately to several hours after, just based on what's happening
Speaker 1: in life. And it's not like that's meat that is
Speaker 1: not good as far as the aging goes. You mean,
Speaker 1: like aging of a couple of hours doesn't matter. Like,
Speaker 1: it's not like that's meat that I then think is
Speaker 1: not any good. Oh no, it um it uh. It's
Speaker 1: not like don't even go through the trouble if you
Speaker 1: can't hang the thing in your garage for twenty days.
Speaker 1: I'm tracking no, ye, sorry about still probably real good
Speaker 1: depends on the animal, yes, but in general, think of
Speaker 1: it in extremes. I think of extremes if you shoot
Speaker 1: something and butcher and you're eating an hour later. It
Speaker 1: has a metallic taste and it is very tough because
Speaker 1: it's still in rigor. Yeah, and for me almost it
Speaker 1: almost gives me not really like a belly ache, but
Speaker 1: sort of like a gurgly just kind of an off stomach.
Speaker 1: Whatever it is that it's going on in there, it
Speaker 1: seems like and again it could be just uh, random occurrences,
Speaker 1: but unless you had two of you, yeah you would,
Speaker 1: you'll never know. Never know. When I eat meat it's
Speaker 1: too fresh, I just get I don't get sick. I'm
Speaker 1: just like, man, something just wasn't quite right. I'll definitely
Speaker 1: eat it. But it's not a let's they say it's
Speaker 1: not as good, and then do you need to have
Speaker 1: a climate controlled situation. I've never personally had that, um so,
Speaker 1: but I'm always afraid to answer people's questions on an
Speaker 1: age all kinds of Let me let me tell you.
Speaker 1: My brother ages me so so he he lives in Alaska. Um.
Speaker 1: He's Ali was hunting in September and has been up
Speaker 1: in Alaska in September. Um, you have cold nights, very
Speaker 1: warm days. Everything's all wet. There's flies everywhere, meat bees
Speaker 1: around everything. It is not conducive to like yard hanging.
Speaker 1: It's not conducive to garage hanging. All you do in
Speaker 1: Alaska is beat flies off stuff. Right just you're not
Speaker 1: gonna hang it. Just it doesn't work out. September hunting
Speaker 1: in Alaska. Agent meat like in your garage is gonna
Speaker 1: happen unless you built the cooler and you can ring
Speaker 1: up some little dorm fridge. But you're not gonna hang
Speaker 1: a moose in there. So he when timing out his
Speaker 1: wild meat calendar, he doesn't think like, oh, I gotta
Speaker 1: have last year's moose and caribou all eating up by
Speaker 1: September first, because then I'll have my new moose and
Speaker 1: my new cab when I'll start eating them. He times
Speaker 1: that where he wants to have last year's all eating
Speaker 1: up at some point in the winter because his moose
Speaker 1: has been freezer aging, which I believe, and some people
Speaker 1: freezer aging. What do you mean, well, stuff deteriorates in
Speaker 1: a freezer. It just takes a long time to do it.
Speaker 1: You will never all out, but two years you will
Speaker 1: never pull out. Let's it's two thousand seventeen and you
Speaker 1: find a piece of meat from two thousand fifteen in
Speaker 1: your freezer. You will never find a tough piece of
Speaker 1: meat that's two years old in your freezer. Well, I
Speaker 1: think the same thing is having to meat that the
Speaker 1: guy just explained is happening to that fish. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: breaking down, yeah, you know, because the water molecules are
Speaker 1: there and freezing. It is breaking down the like the
Speaker 1: you know, on like the molecular structure, you know, And
Speaker 1: the longer it's in there, the more it happens, and
Speaker 1: things just slowly break down. M hm. And then uh,
Speaker 1: that's the problem when you find mab coming out of
Speaker 1: the permit frost. Well, unless you have one of those freezers,
Speaker 1: that's uh. Like, what's that crazy ice cream? I think
Speaker 1: it's called dipping dots. It's got I've got an uncle
Speaker 1: who sells it at a or it's my wife's uncle.
Speaker 1: He sells dipping dots at an amusement park that he owns.
Speaker 1: And they when they started, when they became a purveyor
Speaker 1: of dipping dots. They to have a special freezer that
Speaker 1: doesn't just stop at zero. It's like negative thirty or
Speaker 1: negative forty, because there's such high fat content in the
Speaker 1: dipping dots that if you just free hold it at
Speaker 1: zero or thirty two, it's it's gonna go bad real fast. Right,
Speaker 1: So he's got a special freezer that goes down to
Speaker 1: negative thirty or negative forty, right, just for these ice
Speaker 1: cream Well, he's like, yeah, side bonus of that is
Speaker 1: I was able to throw a few elk steaks in there,
Speaker 1: and five years later, still go my deep freeze. I'm
Speaker 1: looking at I'm looking at the thing right now. My
Speaker 1: deep freeze runs at negative fifteen, which is quite a
Speaker 1: bit colder than my kitchen. Do you have it maxed out?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start doing that. I was trying to find
Speaker 1: like the efficiency level, but I'm gonna quit. I got
Speaker 1: a lot of fish in their man, and I'll just
Speaker 1: to keep my fish cold. I do some other age
Speaker 1: and stuff. When is too old to cold? No, too
Speaker 1: old in your freezer. I personally looked at something and
Speaker 1: been like, Nope, I'm gonna throw it away, just physically
Speaker 1: cannot do no. My sister him doesn't allow for things
Speaker 1: to get anywhere near the point at which I would
Speaker 1: call him into question. But I could say that my
Speaker 1: brother Matt once found some seven year old elk meat
Speaker 1: in a freezer and enjoyed it. Not his elk, mind you,
Speaker 1: he found it in a freezer. I've never had a
Speaker 1: problem to it with. And the oldest stuff I've always
Speaker 1: eaten has been elk, just because when I was living
Speaker 1: in Colorado, it's like everybody had elk in their freezer,
Speaker 1: and oftentimes would be at someone's house and they'd go, oh,
Speaker 1: look at that, you know, and you'd end up with
Speaker 1: some three or four year old elk. Never had a
Speaker 1: problem with that, but I do think that fish, oh
Speaker 1: you can get there, dude. Like Oh, for instance, last
Speaker 1: night we ate the last package of blue cat from
Speaker 1: UH from Kentucky and that was half ago. Yeah it
Speaker 1: was still good, it was edible. We enjoyed it, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't quite the same. I my like I was saying,
Speaker 1: how I keep fishing my big deep freeze. I high
Speaker 1: prioritized fish. So my the peak fish for me, peak
Speaker 1: fishing the freezer for me is August Lay July August,
Speaker 1: when I'm at my cabin lot fishing lot in lot
Speaker 1: sam in the hell. But whatnot dude around now, I'm
Speaker 1: very much like looking to be having that stuff getting
Speaker 1: wrapped up. In fact, I'll be. I think I pulled
Speaker 1: out my last salmon and just smoked it. I saved
Speaker 1: one piece, I think, because I do, not because freezers
Speaker 1: don't stop activity. Yes, I've had big chunks of bear fat.
Speaker 1: I froze big chunks of bear fat, fixing to render
Speaker 1: it later, and had bear fat actually go rancid in
Speaker 1: a freezer. Yeah, the fat. Question Number two on this
Speaker 1: is call fat. Now that's something. Sorry, you guys have
Speaker 1: hit Do we just blow a fuse? Um? No, I
Speaker 1: think that your freezer just just turned off, but not
Speaker 1: like off off. It just turned off, as in you
Speaker 1: gave me a look. I thought we blew the fuse.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, about to pick that back up? Go ahead,
Speaker 1: cow call fat? Can I can I touch on something
Speaker 1: more about aging? Oh? Yeah, for sure, I also age.
Speaker 1: Here's again, I can't tell you like the scientific proof
Speaker 1: any of this stuff, but this is based on a
Speaker 1: shipload of anecdotal evidence and experience and observations of trusted
Speaker 1: close friends. I will also pull a piece of meat
Speaker 1: out of my freezer. Let's say on a Sunday, I
Speaker 1: might though a block of meat out. Oh then rinse it, thought,
Speaker 1: rinse it, padded dry paper towels, put a big roast
Speaker 1: on a rack, set over a dish, and put that
Speaker 1: in my fridge. No one that I'm gonna cook it
Speaker 1: in five or six days. So here it's already been butchered, frozen, thought,
Speaker 1: And now I'm doing a fridge age on it. Mm hmm,
Speaker 1: which I feel like it's helpful. I think you can
Speaker 1: because you asked, can you age too long? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're hanging out with a chef and we actually tried
Speaker 1: some of his meat and after we carved through many
Speaker 1: layers of really inedible stuff, is that what it was?
Speaker 1: And um and this and this was in a you know,
Speaker 1: uh um, climate band humidity controlled but um, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't that the meat was bad. It was taste tasty.
Speaker 1: It was way different. You know, it's just not like
Speaker 1: you're eating a deer steak anymore. But there was so
Speaker 1: much loss due to drying that you're kind of like,
Speaker 1: all right, well, now I have like of this meat left.
Speaker 1: He found the too long. Yeah, he found it too long.
Speaker 1: But at the point is, you can go a long
Speaker 1: time without going too long. But when you're cutting the
Speaker 1: hoping it was an odd d shoulder, When you're cutting
Speaker 1: open the clod on an audad shoulder in order to
Speaker 1: get a piece of meat the size of a a stick.
Speaker 1: As a jolly rancher, it's like you've lost a lot, Yeah,
Speaker 1: from from and then so mule deer. I just I butchered,
Speaker 1: uh the mule dear that I got the in October.
Speaker 1: And then I butchered two front shoulders, just the quarters.
Speaker 1: Um uh that Scott Robinson got about ten days earlier.
Speaker 1: And this was just on Saturday. And the difference in
Speaker 1: the front shoulders, um just that ten days difference between
Speaker 1: so mine mine hung twenty five days, his hung thirty
Speaker 1: five days. Um. The shanks on his, I was, you know,
Speaker 1: kills me to leave any meat in there. But there
Speaker 1: they had reduced so substantially at for most folks probably
Speaker 1: wouldn't be worth digging out that slivery good meat. So
Speaker 1: I've seen tenderloin's uh just vanished, Oh yeah, from hanging
Speaker 1: too long. My old man who tells me that when
Speaker 1: he was young, younger, they would hang dear until it
Speaker 1: had inches of mold on it. I don't know if
Speaker 1: he was exaggerating inches instead of be covered in mold.
Speaker 1: And you'd cut that away and eat the meat off
Speaker 1: from underneath it. And do you think those were whole
Speaker 1: deer they had? Now we one time hung we one
Speaker 1: time hung a calf elk and never froze it, just
Speaker 1: ate it and that thing after hanging it was like
Speaker 1: the perfect winter in the garage. And after a while
Speaker 1: you could jab your finger into the meat. I mean
Speaker 1: like you could literally burrow your finger into the meat.
Speaker 1: They got that tender. Just perfect conditions blow a little
Speaker 1: bit below freezing at night, not much above freezing here
Speaker 1: in the daytime. We was ate the whole sun bitch
Speaker 1: hanging there. Yeah, because you know the feeling on knees. Um.
Speaker 1: You know some majority blow free using nights um. You
Speaker 1: know basically what you're describing. But you know that those
Speaker 1: hind quarters were still. They weren't like frozen hard to
Speaker 1: the touch, but you wouldn't call him soft. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: killed a bowl in Kentucky, bullock in Kentucky. And because
Speaker 1: we were leaving from there to go to somewhere else
Speaker 1: to hunt. I had to have a processed, and the
Speaker 1: processor says, oh, I hang him for ten days. And
Speaker 1: he hung that out for ten days, and those suns
Speaker 1: bitches were still tough. Mhm. It was only later I
Speaker 1: threw him the freezer and forgot about him for a
Speaker 1: few months and started snacking on him. They were good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, if you want to bring up a call fat, yeah,
Speaker 1: call fat. Uh. I know the you know, the show
Speaker 1: obviously has covered it. And because you guys have used
Speaker 1: it in some cooking specials and done it some cooking,
Speaker 1: done it in a lot of social media pictures. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I got interested in it because when I was working
Speaker 1: on my book, where I was talking a lot about
Speaker 1: a Scopier, the great you know, famous master chef, French
Speaker 1: master Chef August Scopier. Who who comes up? Who's brought
Speaker 1: They bring him up in the movie Apocalypse. Now you
Speaker 1: know when when uh, Captain Willard in Chef get off
Speaker 1: the boat to find a mango, find a mango and
Speaker 1: get attacked by a tiger, and Chef is like, never
Speaker 1: get off the boat, never get off the boat. He
Speaker 1: is explaining to Captain Willard that he studied sauces. He
Speaker 1: was a saucy a and culinary arts school in New
Speaker 1: Orleans and mentions the scopier it's a beautiful movie, best
Speaker 1: movie ever made, the best movie ever made. So anyhow
Speaker 1: call fats so oh no, no quick. I got interested
Speaker 1: in because the scofier cooks with it, duh, like sausages
Speaker 1: and stuff like that wraps me like the same way
Speaker 1: you use the turkey bag now or whatever. Just wrap
Speaker 1: steaks and rolls and other stuff in the call fat
Speaker 1: to prevent moisture loss and add fat. So I'm doing
Speaker 1: uh this this coming weekend. I'm I'm I think I'm
Speaker 1: gonna smoke, I think, or just try to slow roast.
Speaker 1: I brought out that the onlier I got this year.
Speaker 1: I brought up the neck hole, which we lead into
Speaker 1: a CWD conversation. But I'm sure these folks will be fine. Uh,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna wrap that in the call fat is
Speaker 1: the plant and I got it is this is like
Speaker 1: super This thing is not started to rut. It's like
Speaker 1: super thick call fat um. But the main questions are,
Speaker 1: how do you get the call fat out um in
Speaker 1: one piece? Uh? Is it worth cleaning? Is it worth
Speaker 1: dealing with. I don't like the taste of deer fat.
Speaker 1: I personally like the taste of deer fat. I just
Speaker 1: think it's to be next to nuclear hot in order
Speaker 1: because as soon as it cools down, it is like
Speaker 1: paraffin wax. Yeah, it's like that Simpsons were Homer drinks
Speaker 1: candle wax in order to better compete in the hot
Speaker 1: Pepper eating cut is exactly. You cannot get that off
Speaker 1: your tongue, your teeth. Yeah, but when it's hot, I'll
Speaker 1: eat it so um. Yeah, call fat, get it out?
Speaker 1: How to get it out? How to get it out?
Speaker 1: You're gonna tell him? I think you should. You're you're
Speaker 1: the expert. Uh well, Yanni. I heard Yanni explaining to
Speaker 1: someone there day, and Yanni's explaining, only even begin to
Speaker 1: think about it. When you're shot is forward of the diaphragm.
Speaker 1: It's gotta be where everything's clean. It's like you open up,
Speaker 1: you're shot, enters and exits forward of the diaphragm. Doesn't
Speaker 1: matter where, but somewhere forward of the diaphragm, because you
Speaker 1: don't want any Everbody's gonna be all nicey nice in there.
Speaker 1: And when he brings up a point too, so you're
Speaker 1: gonna obviously got it to get the call fat when
Speaker 1: you go to gut it and don't, like, don't get
Speaker 1: all the way through your gutting to the point where
Speaker 1: you're cutting the track and yanking the guts out. At
Speaker 1: that point, you're too late. You're gonna get blood all
Speaker 1: over the call fat. You're gonna roll it out into
Speaker 1: the dirt and the grass. You need to just open
Speaker 1: the lower half like from the you know, diaphragm down
Speaker 1: you're treating this as an autopsy. Open that up and
Speaker 1: then say, okay, now I'm gonna take the time to
Speaker 1: get my call fat. Yeah. You can't butcher like they
Speaker 1: do in the Mel Gives the movie Apocalypto, or like
Speaker 1: how they butcher in the movie Red Dawn. In movies
Speaker 1: and movies, when someone goes to butcher gut something, people
Speaker 1: that would definitely know better, like in the case of
Speaker 1: Apocalypto was the Mayan hunters um or in the case
Speaker 1: of Red Dawn, there was lifelong hunters who were trained
Speaker 1: up in the ways of Jet Smith. But when people
Speaker 1: want someone to butcher something in the movie, they like
Speaker 1: to use a big knife and have people jab stuff
Speaker 1: because it's dramatic. They don't show what how you'd actually
Speaker 1: do it, which is surgical surgical, Like I said, you're
Speaker 1: performing a nice clean autopsy. Yeah, when I first started
Speaker 1: dealing with TV folks, they'd be disappointed when they saw
Speaker 1: how you want a knife you'd actually use. You'd be
Speaker 1: like they'd be like, oh, but could you do with
Speaker 1: a machete. They're just like, yeah, like really you do it.
Speaker 1: That's a little teeny thing. Oh slow and easy, you know,
Speaker 1: just stab it. So, um, yeah, you shoot it. Everything's
Speaker 1: for the diaphragms, there's no mass. It's laying on its back.
Speaker 1: This doesn't work with the gutless method. Um, you unzip
Speaker 1: it very carefully. First, just cut through the hide all
Speaker 1: the way up and then lift the abdominal lining or
Speaker 1: the abdominal muscles. Cut those open all the way up.
Speaker 1: But before you cut the diaphragm back, you should open
Speaker 1: it up and just everything is wrapped up in lace
Speaker 1: fat or call fat. It's just this spider web cobweb
Speaker 1: looking membrane of fat that is a literally a sack
Speaker 1: around Yeah, the sack around the guts and on a
Speaker 1: good animal and good condition, it's like, holy sh it.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of fat in there on a bad
Speaker 1: animal and not a bad animal and animal and poor
Speaker 1: physical condition, who's exhausted as fat reserves. It's just it's
Speaker 1: like non existent. It's like really a thing. It's like
Speaker 1: a way they store fat. Agreed. But it's fun to
Speaker 1: mess with. So because we're always talking about it, it's
Speaker 1: like part of why I like it is it's cool looking,
Speaker 1: it's fun, it's cool looking, it's interesting. It's a throwback
Speaker 1: to a bygone arrow. When people use it more often,
Speaker 1: it's a good history lesson, it's good anatomy lesson. Um.
Speaker 1: But anyways, I'm always talking about it. I'm always like
Speaker 1: kind of celebrating it, and it has like really appealing
Speaker 1: visual qualities and people are like, dude, I need to
Speaker 1: get some call fat. But I'll point out it's like
Speaker 1: it's a fun, interesting, educational thing to mess with. But
Speaker 1: it's it's tallowe yes, So is it worth it? It's
Speaker 1: fun to mess around with. Yes, I am looking at
Speaker 1: this call fat as it's gonna be super pretty beautiful
Speaker 1: and it's providing a bunch of lubricant to meat that
Speaker 1: doesn't have it for a little membrane. Yeah, And it's
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be a relatively long cook on a
Speaker 1: big chunk of meat. So as any thoughts, um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you got pinned down on this, you were saying
Speaker 1: at Thanksgiving this year, I got pinned down a bottom
Speaker 1: the airport there to day, but a stranger. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: to that, I want to say that, Look, man, I
Speaker 1: think we're still maybe we've done it more than the
Speaker 1: average joe, but we're still kind of beginners with the
Speaker 1: whole call fat thing too. And I think we're learning
Speaker 1: because like that you did when we were on a
Speaker 1: falling neck, right, we chopped up a bunch of guts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had some tender loin in there too, and yeah,
Speaker 1: heart kidney, and then we wrapped and call fat and
Speaker 1: roasted over the open fire. But we use, like, you know,
Speaker 1: four square feet of call fat to wrap up two
Speaker 1: pounds of meat. It was too much call fat, right,
Speaker 1: if you had to do it again, would you do
Speaker 1: it with less? But I did because it just makes
Speaker 1: it strong or strong or stronger. Yeah. But so so
Speaker 1: my point is that we're like learning, and I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna learn like different things to do with it
Speaker 1: and proper amounts and sort of like the way to
Speaker 1: cook with it, and you know high heat, low heat,
Speaker 1: dada da da da, and you know maybe you roast
Speaker 1: in your neck over three hours in it. We're gonna
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure we'll learn something from this side. No,
Speaker 1: how did you guys do on the kidneys? I have
Speaker 1: not I have not nailed that. I think that they're
Speaker 1: good when they're better on younger animals by far. Like
Speaker 1: I've got to the point where like an old deer,
Speaker 1: do you noticed deers like old I don't mess the
Speaker 1: liver because the liver is so strong. I like it
Speaker 1: on young animals. And if you look at like any
Speaker 1: cookbook that's talking about like cooking with kidneys, they're insistent
Speaker 1: on young animals. People eat like lamb kidney. We shot
Speaker 1: a lamb in New Zealand. Have feral sheep in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: We shot a lamb New Zealand. Holy ship. Long as kidneys,
Speaker 1: everything is so good liver, but they just get stronger.
Speaker 1: I think the older deer have a stronger liver. You
Speaker 1: don't know, It's funny because it's just like rediscovered what
Speaker 1: we already knew when we were kids, Like pull the
Speaker 1: livers out of dere But Jared's like fawn liver. When
Speaker 1: you shot a six months old deer in the fall,
Speaker 1: it was like that liver was the money the shoot
Speaker 1: older deer. My mom would soak the liver and lemon
Speaker 1: juice to try to pull some of the funcation out
Speaker 1: of it to recover cover the call fat fats covered. Oh,
Speaker 1: I want to add another scofier thing. And I did
Speaker 1: this when I was working on my book about a scopier.
Speaker 1: I did it with a wild pig bladder scope would
Speaker 1: take bladders and rinse it out and then soak it
Speaker 1: in a little bit of a vinegar solution. Then you
Speaker 1: take a little game bird it's a squab, like a
Speaker 1: flightless street pigeon or game birds or any kind of thing,
Speaker 1: and take all kinds of good stuff to eat, like
Speaker 1: chop up onion, garlic, mushroom, other stuff like make like
Speaker 1: a mere poi carrot and put a game bird inside
Speaker 1: the bladder and pack all that that that mere poi like,
Speaker 1: pack that around it, all that sauteed carrot, mushroom, onion, garlic,
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and just pack it all the way
Speaker 1: around there and tie the bladder shut and then just
Speaker 1: put that bladder with the bird living inside of it,
Speaker 1: poach it and broth, and the bladder turns like a
Speaker 1: rainbow color, and you just keep you're poaching the bird
Speaker 1: at a low temperature inside the bladder, and eventually, when
Speaker 1: it's time to eat, you snip open the bladder and
Speaker 1: take out the bird and all that stuff that you
Speaker 1: were cooking inside that bladder. So it's just like a
Speaker 1: way that you were He was like, because they weren't,
Speaker 1: you know, in his time, you weren't dealing with like
Speaker 1: synthetic liners and stuff. You're just used looking for like
Speaker 1: in that case, you're looking for a non per non
Speaker 1: permeable membrane and the original Suvi Yeah, exactly exactly. In
Speaker 1: the in the absence of Suvie bags, he was using bladders,
Speaker 1: and I cook birds that way. It's fun. They're beautiful.
Speaker 1: Oh dude, yeah, look about it. Oh yeah, here's the
Speaker 1: guy Yanni was talking about um carrying combat gauze. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is something used for like catastrophic injuries. Combat gauze
Speaker 1: when you just dealing with a like a accidental gunshot injury,
Speaker 1: severe puncture, get yourself wildly with an axe. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: were talking about how you put it over the wound,
Speaker 1: and an E M T who's dealt with a number
Speaker 1: of gunshot wounds in his day. Fellow named Nate rolled
Speaker 1: into be like no, no, no, no, no, no no,
Speaker 1: you got it all wrong, and he sends us a
Speaker 1: video about how to apply combat GUSS. You pack pack
Speaker 1: the wound channel full of combat gus. The video, which
Speaker 1: is on a rubber fake arm, is disturbing. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: packing the rubber fake arm and it makes you feel naxious.
Speaker 1: He produced his own video. It's like he's like putting
Speaker 1: it over. It doesn't do ship. You pack jamming in there,
Speaker 1: jamming in there. So you tell your buddy bite this stick.
Speaker 1: Make people watch that video before they go on the woods.
Speaker 1: Bite you on this stick while I pack your wound
Speaker 1: full of gauze. That's why that hatchet is going to
Speaker 1: take another stick and jam your wound full of gauze
Speaker 1: with a stick. No, my finger, with your fingers that
Speaker 1: have late tass gloss, probably the right. I would use
Speaker 1: a stick. I would get a sharp stick and jam
Speaker 1: it full of gauze. So there's that ready for this one?
Speaker 1: Bring it positive or negative? Neither? All right? Vexing started
Speaker 1: hunting four years ago. It's a fellow name is Zack.
Speaker 1: I've only had the chance to hunt two of those
Speaker 1: dear seasons. Now I understand all the legal stuff behind
Speaker 1: harvest and a dough. However, the ethics behind taking the
Speaker 1: dough that is around six months old has me in doubt.
Speaker 1: I had a chance to take a younger dommet, passing
Speaker 1: her before I felt like she was too young. And
Speaker 1: overthinking this, how do you view the ethics of hard
Speaker 1: and harvesting legal but clearly young animals. You're overthinking it,
Speaker 1: but you can really think on it because it's a recruitment, right.
Speaker 1: If you look at it, the young ones are the
Speaker 1: youngs that are are the animals that are likely the
Speaker 1: most likely to not make it through the winter. So
Speaker 1: quite possibly you could be taking an animal that will
Speaker 1: very well die. Yeah, So if you look at it
Speaker 1: from that perspective, that's like a freedough. It's better than
Speaker 1: removing a proven breeder. Correct. Definitely, your big does are
Speaker 1: the ones that we are most likely going to make
Speaker 1: it through the winter. It's a anthro pomorphousicism problem, yes,
Speaker 1: it is. It's anthropomorphism at at its best. If you
Speaker 1: look at it from a food perspective. You don't get
Speaker 1: that much. Yeah, you know, there's not as much meat.
Speaker 1: And that's why I like to shoot big bucks. You
Speaker 1: know what they say, big racks, big meat. But yes, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I got a couple of problems with shooting the young one.
Speaker 1: It's done have anything to do with her not having
Speaker 1: like or him having uh, you know, enjoyed a full life.
Speaker 1: It's uh one, Yeah, you get like a white tail
Speaker 1: dove fun. I mean you're looking at it, maybe you well, yeah,
Speaker 1: thirty pounds a yield. Maybe it depends on it's how
Speaker 1: late in the it's a big in the you know, September, noah,
Speaker 1: but it's could be half of if you shot a
Speaker 1: you know, a year old. Oh yeah, man, and then
Speaker 1: to the uh, you know what those young animals are
Speaker 1: just so mild people. Some people like that though. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't like your flavor. Yeah, if you like skinless
Speaker 1: chicken breast, then you know six months those white taild
Speaker 1: does or for you Germans Man, we learned this. They
Speaker 1: want to buy when they buy red deer out of
Speaker 1: Scotland went on, they want to buy ruddy stags. They
Speaker 1: like him high. That's what they call it. Remember the
Speaker 1: boars out of Texas. So he's saying, too, they get exported. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the stuff Americans don't want to touch. Yeah, so Mary's
Speaker 1: in Europe as like, yeah, send us all the ruddy
Speaker 1: old boars, we like them, high flavorful old mual to
Speaker 1: your back is I mean, I gave away of the
Speaker 1: elkay shot this year, and I'm not giving away any
Speaker 1: of the mule to your back high shot this year's
Speaker 1: too good. Uh. From the deer's perspective, it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: Like a five year old buck is gonna be like,
Speaker 1: just shoot me. I don't care anymore. It's like from
Speaker 1: the deer's perspect of you're you're killing him. He's dead,
Speaker 1: all right. They want to live. There's no there's like
Speaker 1: they're not trying to A young one's not like, oh,
Speaker 1: on the prime of my life or just getting started life. Like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter where I think it comes from.
Speaker 1: Where the where the prejudice against your Where the idea
Speaker 1: that you shouldn't shoot fawns or does comes from? Because
Speaker 1: you have to start to step back and look at
Speaker 1: the history of wildlife, or in this case, the history
Speaker 1: of deer management in this country, where in the early
Speaker 1: late eighteen hunters early nine hunters, we had like wiped
Speaker 1: out white tailed deer in a lot of areas and
Speaker 1: it was a long road to recover the species and
Speaker 1: bring it back to hontable numbers. We were able to
Speaker 1: keep hunting deer during the recovery because we just harvested box.
Speaker 1: So I want to grew up where you like your
Speaker 1: tag was good for like a buck, it was because
Speaker 1: you were trying to You were harvesting deer, shooting deer
Speaker 1: to eat, and shooting near for whatever um while still
Speaker 1: growing the population. Because when you shoot a box, you
Speaker 1: just you're removing one animal from the cool and as
Speaker 1: long as you have enough box left to make sure
Speaker 1: all the does get bred, you're fine. The key was
Speaker 1: saving your breeding age does, because if you shoot a buck,
Speaker 1: you're removing a deer from the population. When you kill
Speaker 1: a dough, you're killing her in every fond she will
Speaker 1: ever have. So once we got to recovery with deer
Speaker 1: and we got to where we've had, by some estimations,
Speaker 1: too many deer, and we started to say, man, now
Speaker 1: we got the opposite problem. Now we've got too many
Speaker 1: deer and they're causing a lot of conflicts with agricultural
Speaker 1: producers and car insures and people who have landscaping, and
Speaker 1: you know, we now have an obligation to lower to
Speaker 1: lesson deer numbers and also to control spread of disease
Speaker 1: and all kinds of other issues why you might want
Speaker 1: to cut your dear population back. We started to say, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: the whole not shooting dough thing, well, never mind. Now
Speaker 1: we're killing doughts. We're trying to lower deer numbers. And
Speaker 1: then there's been a lot of resistance to that. It
Speaker 1: still hangs out in some areas, it does. It. It's
Speaker 1: different growing up in I mean you talk about it
Speaker 1: a lot, right, Like all of a sudden you went
Speaker 1: from Michigan to Montana and it was like, I can
Speaker 1: kill how many deer? I mean, Um, when I first
Speaker 1: started rifle antelope hunting, I I mean I shoot five
Speaker 1: a year. I think we used to go out, well,
Speaker 1: me and my brother would had all analop hunt. We'd
Speaker 1: have six tags in our pocket, two buck tags, four
Speaker 1: door tags, three tags per right, and then that big
Speaker 1: winter kill happened and those days are over. Um, And
Speaker 1: then yes, you know, Sam, you could pick up you
Speaker 1: could the law really is you can shoot a total
Speaker 1: of seven deer in Montana, so one buck. There are
Speaker 1: some additional buck tags now but uh and then uh
Speaker 1: six dollars. Well in the Southeast as last states, you
Speaker 1: can kill a deer day too, dear day limited deer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: carry the same tag around for the whole season. Doug
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, Doug Dring. He still has he still has
Speaker 1: people in his community here, like they just will not
Speaker 1: shoot a doll. They'll shoot every buck they ever lay
Speaker 1: their eyes on. Yeah, but they won't shoot a doll
Speaker 1: just because of growing up. But like Doug when he
Speaker 1: was growing up, when he was a little kid, if
Speaker 1: you saw a deer track, you went home and told
Speaker 1: your mom dad about it. It's amazing. Now they've got
Speaker 1: fifty year per square mile on good habitat. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think this is uh yeah, it's more of a
Speaker 1: it's your personal ethics uh out there and it's just
Speaker 1: you so do you feel good about but the you know,
Speaker 1: those those tags exist for a reason. It's part of
Speaker 1: the management plan. Yeah, if you have faith in your
Speaker 1: state phishing Game agency and state fishing game agencies are
Speaker 1: not infallible. But I um am taking all things and
Speaker 1: considered and looking at all the alternative options. Um right now,
Speaker 1: I can say that like a good if you want
Speaker 1: to be an ethical hunter, a good starting place is
Speaker 1: to follow the rules as set forth by your state
Speaker 1: phish and Game agency and if they're teams of biologists
Speaker 1: have made a determination that you're not gonna be hurting
Speaker 1: anything by shooting a dough, and you might be helping
Speaker 1: something by shooting a dough. I wouldn't. And you want
Speaker 1: to shoot a doll, and that's in line with your
Speaker 1: personal plan, I wouldn't let any kind of other noise
Speaker 1: come in and influence your decision. I think we diverged
Speaker 1: a little bit because really the question really was about
Speaker 1: the age of that dough. Oh yeo, yeah, what I
Speaker 1: said that? I said, No, we touched on that and
Speaker 1: a lot, a whole lot more. Yeah, I said, they
Speaker 1: don't get like more wanting to get shot as they
Speaker 1: get older. You know, like doll is never gonna be
Speaker 1: like oh bro, last year I would have run away,
Speaker 1: but now you know I'm too. But to wrap it up,
Speaker 1: there are no ethics about shooting. There's no there's no
Speaker 1: like ethical issue about shooting young deer or young squirrels. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you ever met anybody says I'm not gonna shoot
Speaker 1: a young squirrel. That's just something that never happens. And
Speaker 1: in pheasants, it's like people get cited about shooting older pheasant,
Speaker 1: but the younger ones are good. The older ones holy smokes.
Speaker 1: But I definitely yeah, you gotta cook them. But it's
Speaker 1: still cool when you shoot a real old one. As
Speaker 1: far as table fair, the youngsters, birds of the year,
Speaker 1: bird of the year born that spring, all right, I
Speaker 1: still got a giant stack of mail here in my hand.
Speaker 1: But uh, we should do another loose Ends sometime. That
Speaker 1: was fun, dude. We got limitless loose ends, a lot
Speaker 1: of questions, good stuff. I love the audience, man, We
Speaker 1: had the best audience in the world. Yeah. When we
Speaker 1: did a post on the first Light facebook page last
Speaker 1: year that I really had been meaning to write it
Speaker 1: like a follow up thank you on and it was
Speaker 1: kind of on one of the things that we tackled tonight,
Speaker 1: Like I had gotten home at ten thirty at night
Speaker 1: and took all the food and trays out of my
Speaker 1: refrigerator and stuffed at full of boned out elk because
Speaker 1: there was just nothing else I could do with it
Speaker 1: at that point in the evening, and so I was
Speaker 1: just cooling it down as fast as I could, you know,
Speaker 1: eighty or ninety degrees on a basically in August all
Speaker 1: count right, and took a picture of it, and we
Speaker 1: put it up on our social media, and um, there
Speaker 1: were some folks out there that we're living. It was
Speaker 1: like our most highly controversial post. And I absolutely love
Speaker 1: that because people were just like, that's not how you
Speaker 1: treat me. Other folks like, yeah, I've been there, Like
Speaker 1: you gotta cool it down somehow on great. Yeah. So yeah,
Speaker 1: the the audience, from my distant position of not knowing
Speaker 1: the situation, I will tell you that that's not how
Speaker 1: you treat me. Yeah, No, it is not ideal. It
Speaker 1: is not ideal. We gotta improvise, especially when you're doing yourself,
Speaker 1: you dude, we've had it so bad. We had like
Speaker 1: throw meat in the creek. Yeah, and you just cringe
Speaker 1: right flies, and then you're thinking about like sediment working
Speaker 1: its way and in the meat and just it's like
Speaker 1: in the eighties were like hunting doll sheep. It's like
Speaker 1: in the eighties during the day, you can't see because
Speaker 1: all the smoke from fires, burning flies on everything. We're
Speaker 1: just in the middle of the day. It's starting to
Speaker 1: stun to come up, we just go down and sinking
Speaker 1: the creek, or go up to a snow field, burying
Speaker 1: in the snow. Spent most of our time just trying
Speaker 1: to manage meat. Not ideal. So I'd be like, hey,
Speaker 1: you can't throw meat in the creek, but the picture
Speaker 1: would have been way worse. It was just it covered
Speaker 1: in fly eggs. Yeah. I love the fans and the
Speaker 1: listeners to especially Tom had been the guy that wrote
Speaker 1: the real hero email thanks to I'd love you all
Speaker 1: more if you take the time to subscribe and give
Speaker 1: us a rating. There's only one rating you can give.
Speaker 1: You're gonna rate the Meat Eater podcast. That would be
Speaker 1: five stars, the right most star. Yeah, um yeah, and subscribing.
Speaker 1: Subscribing to man. Subscribing is very helpful. Also, also go
Speaker 1: follow um I'm on Instagram at Steve Ronella, follow me
Speaker 1: or TV on Instagram. That's good stuff. That's all kinds
Speaker 1: of things you can do. And keep writing in letters. Um,
Speaker 1: Ryan Callahan, thank you very much, thank you. That's your
Speaker 1: grains of wisdom and y'all need the real hero I think,
Speaker 1: instead of the labby Eagle. I just started calling him
Speaker 1: the real hero. Oh, it's not gonna hit over ourselves.