WEBVTT - Ep. 097: Loose Ends 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.560 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening hunt don't 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:22.279 eat podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light. 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:35.160 Go farther, stay longer. This is an extra special Loose 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.519 Ends episode. In fact, we're recalled loose Ends where we 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:44.600 deal with hate mail. Um, we don't love mail, No, 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:52.120 very little hate mail, disappointed mail, outstanding questions, clarifications, the 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.959 one my favorite corrections. We're a doodle here something He's 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.280 like non in and in and in any right, and 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:01.200 it takes the time to right in and tell you 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:06.560 where you're wrong. I love it. But um, there's two 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.600 ways that it comes. It comes as from a person 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.600 who is like, man, you know, I want to contribute 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:19.440 to the conversation in a constructive way, and those boys 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.440 should not be misleading people in this way. And I 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.160 feel like I'm gonna do my civic duty as an 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.240 engaged listener and set the record straight. There's that guy 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.600 well love, and there's like this other sort of feller 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:36.640 who just has a ax to grind, probably spends a 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:39.400 lot of time on Facebook writing mean messages to people. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.679 Right first one, I'll bring this one up just like 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.800 just got it today, just came in today. What are 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:54.080 you doing? Honest? Making notes part of my job. This guy, 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.680 here's what he has to say. My hunting body and 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.720 I were watching your show what Butcher and a Moose yesterday? 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.280 Tom Habib is this feller's name? My hunting body never 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.480 watching your show while Butcher and the Moose yesterday. I'm 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.440 already I'm already hooked. I'm already engaged by this letter. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.520 And he says, we're chatting about the cast of characters 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:16.120 that appear on the show and podcast. I don't want 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.160 to turn this into it if your favorite Meet Eater 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:20.919 guy was a character from Game of Thrones, Harry Potter 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.320 or whatever, who would he be type of thing. But 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.240 there was one comparison that just leaped out at us, 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:32.200 especially after listening to the podcast under the Bear Encounter 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.320 on a fog Neck, which is talled The Meat Tree 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.120 Part one. In The Meat Tree Part two, he says, 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:41.120 while Steve is the apparent protagonist and gets all the glory, 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:45.000 it is clear to us that he is merely the 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:49.840 fro Though to Janice's Sam Wise, I e the true 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.880 hero of the story who just goes out there and 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:59.240 straight up get ship done. It is your honest, so 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.359 do you that's this guy had to say that. It's 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.680 like that was just a nice fan letter. That's really sweet. 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.920 Sign that for me. He signed him in a frame 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:15.520 it less less, get so full of himself. Let's get 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:20.080 so full of himself. Thanks tom um. Did you just 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.000 set your honest up to just knock him down a 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:27.120 peg or two? I swear to it's on top of yeah, coming, 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.000 it's on top of the heat. It's on top of 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.960 the heat because I just printed it off this morning. Alright, 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.000 you can't see me, but I'm sitting here that fistful 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:41.720 of print outs. What happens? Does He's come into an 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.000 account the contact if you go to like the meat 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.400 the meat eater dot com and go to the contact 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.680 thing you write a letter. It's like, I get that 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.080 on one of my accounts and I'll be like huh 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.920 if I if it catches my eye, I'll be like huh, 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.960 and I'll afford it to my regular email and there 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.200 I will print it off and putting this big giant 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.640 pile of things that keep meaning to bring up. Here's 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:09.440 another one about Yannis Yanni's going on and on and 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:16.440 on about how there's no difference between the thirty or 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.960 six and three mag particularly where a guy was saying 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:24.960 a guy Yanni was saying, Yanni was talking annoyedly. That's 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.039 not a word, but Yanni was. Someone was saying, Oh, 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.880 on this hunt, doesn't matter what hunter it was. He's like, 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:35.440 on this hunt thirty all six ain't gonna cut it, um, 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:39.719 you need a three win mag. And Janni was going 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.640 on on and on about how there's really no difference, 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:47.520 because he's saying, what's the difference? Who really cares? If 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.640 you have? It's a thirty caliber bullet, so it's point 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:57.799 three zero eight of an inch, weighs the same amount. 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:04.479 So it's this projectile with a certain diameter, and this 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:09.880 projectile has a certain weight, and it's going a certain speed. 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.360 And he's pointing out that you have this set thing. 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.520 You're talking about the same grain bullet, the same weight bullet, 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:21.479 the same diameter, made of the same ship. What's the 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.640 difference is it's flying out of your gun at three 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:29.360 thousand one ft per second or what you honey, uh 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:36.479 whatever fee per second? Um. As in the den of 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.720 this idea, I'll point out that when I was a kid. 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.200 I was born at the at what I call the 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:46.160 Great Awakening of the thirty six. You guys lived in 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:52.039 the shotgun area, Yeah, Michigan. There's a line at which 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.960 there's a line across the state in the southern part 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:56.640 of the state where if you live like north of 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.159 that line, you can hunt with a center fire. You know, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.400 you home with a rifle. South of that line, you 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.520 can only help with the shotgun, a muzzle loader. Do 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.160 you know that? Cow? I did? I did not? You 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.880 mean you weren't aware of Michigan shotgun rifle line. No, 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:17.240 I wasn't, how insult exactly. I'm not well traveled man there. 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.559 There is such a lot of our Midwest deer hunting 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.800 states are shotgun only. But you know what they I 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.040 just gotta I just saw a story about this. There's 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.640 some new cartridge, some new rifle cartridge that you can 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:32.839 now use in the shotgun area. Some giant, some crazy 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:38.039 giant thing I'm not real familiar with, some slow lobbery 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.599 you're allowed to use in the or something like that. Yeah, 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:47.039 but it is, but not but something like that. Um So, anyways, 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.440 prior like when I was born, everybody had a thirty 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.800 thirty it was called it was known as a brush gun. 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.960 But then and that's all everybody had. And then right 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.200 around when I turned fourteen, everyone was going out and 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.120 buying a thirty at six. It was only like two 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:06.000 guns that existed. You either had a thirty thirty or 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.800 you were anxious about getting your thirty ot six. I 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.960 had never heard of most guns. When I moved in Montana, 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.400 everybody had two seventies and three d Win mags. Is like, huh, 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.160 I was packing the thirty hot six. Probably soon after 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.560 that's when the short magnum craze started. Right right about 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:27.880 it was the first act that first going to first 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.880 non nine old gun that someone gave to me. Gun 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:35.400 I bought was a short mag um. Another side note, 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.160 this thirty oh six. All the numbers and guns mean 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.000 different things. What do you do you know what thirty 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:46.520 thirty means? Yeah? Thirty Well, originally when it got its name, 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.600 it was the third The first thirty is for thirty caliber, 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.240 and then the second thirty was for thirty grains of 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:57.640 powder behind it. Okay, thirty oh six is thirty caliber. 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.440 Come out in six introducing six, so it wasn't new 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:07.320 in ninety four. Well, I got a little bit of 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.560 a jump on the legal minimum shooting age and and 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.840 and uh got a little bit of a head start 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:14.920 on app But anyways, whatever year I had, I was 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.680 still I was shooting a thirty two special, which was 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.480 old time even compared to a thirty thirty peep site 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:26.960 on it, so Winchester model. Anyhow, this guy writes in 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:32.160 to say to take Yanni to task. He says, you 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:35.440 guys talked about how the only difference between the thirty 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.160 oh six and the three wind Meg is velocity, which 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.120 is technically true, but the argument for the wind mag 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:48.200 is not velocity. For velocity's sake, I didn't print this 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.079 guy's name off, which is bumming me out. For an 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:55.280 equivalent bullet weight, what you're really gaining with the three 0:08:55.679 --> 0:09:01.520 wind Meg versus the thirty oh six is increased kinetic energy, 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:07.040 which could loosely be correlated as stopping power. My old 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.360 man during Whiskey Whiskey to World War Two, my old 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.920 man said that the sniper shot thirty oh six is 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:19.760 m M true. He carried a Tommy gun um and 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.000 he had a B A R. I believe in the 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.839 Tommy gun for a while, but he said there's that 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.440 was the gun that was like the So even back then, 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:30.520 I don't want I don't want people to come away 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.360 me thinking thinking that somehow the thirty out six became 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:37.839 cool in the eighties. Um. He goes out to say 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:43.400 what the formula for for uh kinetic energy is. But 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.040 here's the important part. Since you're squaring the velocity. So 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.199 when okay, I will tell you the formula for kinetic energy. 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:58.160 Kinetic energy is one halftimes mass times velocity squared. Since 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.880 you're squaring the velocity, a moderate increase increase in speed 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:08.440 provides more than a linear increase in energy. So, using 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.800 Yanni's one hundred grain bullet as an example, a three 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.040 hundred wind meg throwing that one eight grain bullet at 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:20.840 three thousand, one hundred and fifty ft per second is 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:25.679 putting out three thousand, nine hundred seventy two foot pounds 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:31.520 of energy, and the anemic little thirty oh six Yanni's 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.079 a little thirty oh six throwing the same bullet at 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:38.640 two thousand, seven hundred feet per second, So four hundred 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:45.400 fifty less ft per second is a full thousand less 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:53.000 pounds of connect energy. A seventeen percent increase in velocity 0:10:53.400 --> 0:11:00.760 yields a thirty seven percent increase in energy. You have it, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:05.640 it's not the same. No, I would carrying this piece 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.040 of paper on, waving this piece of paper in Johanni's 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.680 face for months, wanting to bring this up. I want 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:16.440 to go ahead, then you can. You can say what 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.040 you gotta say, Guy goes on to say. Guy goes 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:21.800 on to kind of wind. He winds up sounding a 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.719 little bit like like the eagle, because he goes on 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.240 to say, that's the physics of it, but doesn't really matter. 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.480 Ask the smartest hunter, you know how many footpounds it 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.960 takes to killing elk. I think by that he means 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.959 they're not going to know. More energy results in increased 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:42.280 hydro static shock pressure, but good luck quantifying that. As 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.559 it relates to killing a large animal, there is a 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:50.000 point of diminishing returns, and Janice is correct to say 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.480 that it is better to shoot a caliber you are 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.120 comfortable with so you can make a good shot to 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:59.079 the vitals. There is also the issue of too much 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:04.960 energy in meat wastage. Velocity is obviously also tied the 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.120 bullet drop, but that's a separate issue that can be 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.839 solved with practice and a range finder, says odds are good. 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.679 You guys already know all this. I just need an 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.400 excuse to take a break from my yard work. Okay, 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.880 now go ahead. Well, I think when we when I 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.559 read that email earlier, I didn't catch those the last 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.440 two where he starts signing like you, Yeah, that was 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:31.160 just gonna be my follow up. So you're gonna say 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:35.079 the same thing he's I appreciate the man sign off. 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.400 That was well writ email there. No, he did a 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.760 good job. Let print his name off. I'll look up 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.280 his name. Any thoughts about that, Kelly him you shoot 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.480 a three wind Meg. I love the three mag Yeah, 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:57.080 the very similar that. I mean, like, the whole historic 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:02.600 lineage of this is a bigger argument than just when 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.160 you break it down to the numbers, I feel like, 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.080 because it kind of comes down to experience and what 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.400 you're comfortable with and what you've seen perform well in 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.320 the field. And yeah, just the difference between growing up 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:20.600 in Michigan and growing growing up in Montana. Um it uh. 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:26.640 You had access to different things at different times, and 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.440 and like you talk about the thirty six coming onto 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.560 the scene and what that did for hunting and the 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:37.520 availability of ammunition that it wasn't really that great because 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.520 it was all of World War two surplus stuff. I 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.880 don't think great for big game animals, but that could 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:50.319 have made lifelong thirty six fans and lifelong thirty six opponents. Um, 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.319 which you know, leads you down the path to different calibers. 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.560 And then there's the there's the old like, well it 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.840 works for me at which is hard to argue against. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:08.719 It's very hard to argue against. Okay, right, here's the 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.040 guy exactly my age. He includes his age and he's 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:18.560 exactly my age. His name's Brian Um. He goes on 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.920 to say, spent some years since I've really been out 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.440 in the wilderness. Your thoughtful discussions with intelligent members of 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.720 the hunting and fishing and wilderness management community have reignited 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:34.520 that love of wilderness and wildness. I was especially impressed 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:39.080 with episode seventy two American Wilderness, which highlights how important 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:43.920 wilderness is to our national identity and heritage, and that 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:48.760 wilderness as untouched lands and quote untouched is somewhat of 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:53.680 a myth. We tend to these lands to manage them 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:58.840 and maintain their wilderness character. I'm reminded of something I 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.960 read by Michael Pollen regarding wilderness and his essay The 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:07.120 Idea of a Garden from his book Second Nature. He 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:11.600 addresses this idea of wilderness where he writes, this is 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:16.720 Michael Pollen writing, at this point in history, after humans 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:21.160 have left their stamp on virtually every corner of the earth, 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:28.760 doing nothing is frequently a poor recipe for wilderness. He 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:33.080 goes on to say. Pollend goes on to right, the 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:38.040 inescapable fact is that if we want wilderness here, we 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:42.960 will have to choose which wilderness we want, an idea 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:50.400 that is inimicable, inimical to the wilderness ethic. Interesting bit 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:57.840 of follow up, Yeah, don't agree. So what this gentleman, 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:03.120 wilderness don't have by accident anymore, and your idea of 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.600 I guess he's arguing the purity of wilderness. Yeah, that 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:13.240 it's a managed landscape in our country's history, I think 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.920 we like for a long time we had wilderness in 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:18.760 spite of our best efforts to get rid of it, 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.880 and now we have some because of our best efforts 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:30.960 to preserve it. That switch happened like around you know, 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.840 it was a round like worked and work to work, 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.280 and work to work to to to conquer it, and 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.280 then we had this like awkward transitional period and then 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:41.800 we worked and worked and work and work and work 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:50.120 to hang onto some of it. Right. Yeah, absolutely can't. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:51.840 Can't cut a road up there, or I cut a 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:56.960 road up there, and the avalanches keep knocking the thing down, 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.640 So we're just not going to go up there. Made 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.560 a choice to just quit going up there cutting it. 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.400 Here's from a guy named Richard. Now this one really 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.000 struck a nerve with Yanni. This guy is saying this, 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.320 I've been hunting for the last seven years and yet 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.720 to close the deal on a deer, so seven years 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.200 as Feather has been at it. I never grew up hunting, 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.280 but have always been interested in it. I took up 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:24.920 archery and rifle hunting when I turned thirty. My first 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.160 year archery hunting, I had a spike come in at 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.000 five yards, but buck fever was so bad I could 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.880 barely pull in time. Second year, I had a bad 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.520 shot on a dough at twenty five yards. I was 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.919 crushed and then wanted to quit after that, so I 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:43.840 gather he crippled up a door and ever found her. 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.359 I moved to Idaho a couple of years ago, so 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.680 right in your backyard cow. Yesterday I missed a deer 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.880 at two d yards. My oak season starts on Wednesday, 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.359 and I'm having serious doubts as the weather I'm gonna 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.199 be able to do this? At what point do I 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.920 call it good? In just six sept that I'm not 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.119 good at it. I hate that I have spent countless 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.400 hours and time and money pursuing this with very little 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.320 to show for it outside of rabbits. I think if 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.080 I quit without getting a deer elk, It's gonna bug me. 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.680 My hunting buddies think I'm being too hard on myself. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.919 But am I? You said one of your podcast you 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.720 were quit hunting if it was no longer fun and 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.560 there was no meat. I think I'm at that point. 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.119 I'm not sure what should I do. Should I press 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:38.359 on Richard, no me and no fun? That'd be a 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.240 good T shirt. No meat, no fun that is a 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.320 great T shirt. Like my daughter says, she says, well, yeah, 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.639 we won't have a meal to eat, but we'll have 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.160 a story. It sounds like Richard's got a lot of stories. 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.920 Are you truly not having fun? Though? Like I mean, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.880 I've had some every he here is Yeah, my god, 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.159 the misery we could pass on to people if that 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:11.600 were possible, But there was always something that comes out 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.919 of that trip. Seven years. Yeah, I know, it's a 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.000 hell of a dry spell seven year but you know, 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.280 I mean, there's so many places to go with this. 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.240 He's a he's a better human because of those seven 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.200 years spent. And look, he doesn't say how many days 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.440 of field per season he's spent. I'm sorry, but Richard 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.080 might only be hunting a couple of three days. You know, 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.600 maybe he needs to put in a month of archery 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:41.119 hunting and then see where his luck stands. You know. Um, 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.840 I mean you can like national averages. I haven't looked 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:48.800 in a few years, but you know, the majority of 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:53.879 the hunting population is getting a long weekend at the 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:58.879 most is what gets recorded. So you know, if this 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:03.080 guy's getting out during archery and rifle season, he you know, 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.840 it could be a week total, let's say, or maybe 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:12.280 he's hunted fourteen days in his life. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:14.440 the years doesn't really that doesn't really work that well. 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.280 And I think he's only you know, if he kills 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.560 one this year on his eighth year, he'd be just 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.760 a little bit less than like the national success rate, right, 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.399 because I mean we hover somewhere between like ten and 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:29.200 thirty depend on if it's archery or you know me 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:34.359 for general over the counter success. I'm gonna come at 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:42.520 him more practically. I think that, like I think that 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.560 the guy just kind of gotta have he's a little 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.320 bit of I think you stick with it. I think 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:47.800 he needs a little bit of success. I think the 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.639 way they'll find that success. I don't know how he's 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:51.560 sort of gauging what he's after, but I just have 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.040 a real hard time thinking that in the state he 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.520 lives in, if he goes out and carves out a 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.800 week a time to go out with his rifle and 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:05.359 he's committed to shooting a legal deer, he's gonna go 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.399 spend seven days out in a general unit and and 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:13.040 get a nice less than one shot yard shot at 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.600 a four key deer with his rifle, that he's not 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.320 gonna be able to do that. I agree. I don't 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.280 care if you just I don't care what you know. 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:23.480 If you can learn how to shoot at one hundred 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.800 yards and hit and just walk around in the woods 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:31.880 and you have in mind that you find the legal deer, 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.480 a good shot at legal deer and give yourself seven days. 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.840 I don't think you're gonna come up empty handed. Yeah, 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:45.080 I mean that that may be generous. I think our 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.600 friend Richard is probably like right at that cusp of 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:55.560 doing one thing and being like, holy shit, it's that easy. 0:21:55.720 --> 0:22:00.280 It's all gonna click. Stick with it. Yeah, I really don't. 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.960 I don't know, man, that's the whole idea of quitment. 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:08.159 I don't really get the whole quitting Like I'm not. 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:13.320 I quit one thing one time where I was always 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:17.560 curious about chess, and my nephew sat down to explain 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.800 chess to me, and after about fifteen minutes, I was like, 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:26.440 never mind, because once I knew that it would take 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:31.280 that much just to be sucky, right, I didn't want 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.960 to get involved in it. I thought it was like 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:39.120 a little more complicated than checkers, right, sure, But once 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.920 I was like, oh that's what chess is, just never 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.080 mind because I'm not gonna This isn't something I'm just 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:48.040 gonna toy with. I'm either gonna do it or not 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:50.560 do it. And I see now that I am not 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:55.520 gonna like, I'm not gonna devote like I don't have 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.399 the time to figure this out to the degree that 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:00.560 I would want to figure it out if I would 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:07.040 start dabbling, right, And and you're thinking that to you, 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.080 your fund comes when you're at least proficient at something 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.200 like I like to play Sneaky Snaky Squirrel with my kids. 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.600 I have I'm able to play at a highly competitive level, right, 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:19.719 and I have it dialed so it's enjoyable to me. 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:25.600 But chess wasn't gonna be like Sneaky Snaky Squirrel. So 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:27.840 where you trying to get all the acorns? Yeah? I 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:31.080 guess I am very biased here, but I don't under 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:33.920 if I guess you gotta ask you if you are 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.359 truly not having fun, which I just don't see as 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:42.480 as an actual possibility unless this seven years has just 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:46.960 been fraught with some series of you know, god awful 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:52.280 and unfortunate events. Uh went into the woods, house burned down, 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:59.520 went into the wood, dog died, went into the woods. Yeah, 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:02.280 if you are truly not having fun, yeah, find yourself 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:05.040 a different Yeah. If you're like, you're out there and 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:11.040 the sun's rising, you're like sunrise. I hate seeing those. 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:15.880 I hate natures that damn birds chirping. Yeah, he probably quit, 0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:18.639 but that's not what he wouldn't be writing in if 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:21.040 thous case. Here's the thing two, Just as an inspirational point, 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:25.440 I'll sure um I had a very bad pumpkin year 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:29.239 in my garden two thousand and six. Team will go 0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:31.960 down as a bad pumpkin year. I came out of 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:36.800 that wanting to become a pumpkin enthusiast. I've been reading 0:24:36.920 --> 0:24:42.359 up on how to grow world record pumpkins. So I'm 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:47.480 taking like loss and failure and turning it into becoming 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:51.080 a pumpkin enthusiast. I'm not writing letters to people about 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:57.280 quit and growing pumpkins. Had some stolen the ones I 0:24:57.320 --> 0:24:59.719 did have her so small they were ridiculed by my 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:04.080 wife from children. They went out and bought other pumpkins. 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:11.720 Car like the pumpkins weren't good enough for him. We 0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:18.960 ate one. Okay, our episode of wit Fosberg episode ninety 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:24.160 I think it was ninety really touched nerve and read 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:32.600 three pieces of feedback about this episode. Maybe yeah, I'm 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:35.080 gonna read three pieces of feedback. Here's one. Here's one 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:38.879 version of a way to take that. What was with 0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:43.679 Fosberg from Theodore Roosevelt conservation partnership reached out to us 0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:45.520 or not when my same reached out to us. Came 0:25:45.560 --> 0:25:47.760 on the show and we did sort of a walk 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:51.840 around the country looking at leading conservation issues around the 0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:56.159 country that affect hunters and anglers and fishing wildlife, or 0:25:56.200 --> 0:26:01.280 affect fishing, hunt affect hunters and anglers through their impacts 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:04.520 on fishing wild life, and then talked about a couple 0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:07.879 other like perennial conservation issues that just never really go away. 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:13.080 One guy says this to say, thank you very much 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:18.480 for it. Guys, I love the wonky conservation talk, and 0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:21.159 he was very knowledgeable. Thank you for the work that 0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:23.440 you do with this podcast. Here's where it gets interesting. 0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:29.080 I'm not a hunter. I have a very stereotypically liberal 0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:33.919 person and a city planner, but this podcast has helped 0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:40.080