1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,559 Speaker 1: Hey, this Sanny and welcome to Stuff I've Never told you. 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: You're a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works, 3 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: and today Samantha is once again joining us. Umy, Hey, 4 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here as always as always, Yes, 5 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: like that this episode, UM, I'm really relying on you 6 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: a lot because this is something that I think you 7 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: have had a lot of personal and you and I 8 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: when we were having a discussion on what these episodes 9 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: and what the series should look like, I was very 10 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: passionate about want to talk about my people's the case 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: workers out there, the therapist, the trauma workers, the second responders, UM, 12 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: because I think we don't talk enough about helping and 13 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: caring for those people who often see the worst and 14 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: the worst of society. So yeah, here we go, because 15 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to talk a lot about personal experience, so 16 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: that I hope you are ready. Yeah, because we're talking 17 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: about empathy and having too much of it. Because on 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: this if we were looking at an arc of our 19 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: mini series, we're kind of on the on the other end, 20 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: or like towards the end of the season, and a 21 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: lot of people do after they go through a traumatic event, 22 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: they do feel inspired or even like through survivor's guilt, 23 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: or there's something that makes them want to help others 24 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: so that they can either prevent it from happening to 25 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: others or work help other people who have gone through 26 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: something similar work through it. And that can be something 27 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: very triggering, retraumatizing. UM. So, yeah, this question of empathy 28 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: and can you have too much of it? You have 29 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: too much? And you and I with you were researching 30 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: and remember you're like, oh my gosh, this and this, 31 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, that's me a problem. Well, before 32 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: we get into it, trigger warnings UM for death, trauma, 33 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: secondary trauma, and suicide, right and UM specifically with those, 34 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: we're talking a little bit about how these can affect 35 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: secondary trauma and trauma can affect your daily life. And 36 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: we did. We talked about that earlier with like, UM, 37 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: how it comes out and the symptoms and a part 38 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: of that and some of the bad coping ideas would 39 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: be some of these things that we're talking about. And 40 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: it can't happen without you being the one being victimized, 41 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: like personally victimized. Right, And I love a dictionary. Dictionary 42 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 1: understand people don't know, right, So let's let's define empathy 43 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: and This is from dictionary dot com. The psychological identification 44 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: with our vi curious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, attitudes 45 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: of another um the brain. I almost went on this 46 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: whole thing where I got fascinated with the science of it. 47 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,399 Speaker 1: But the brain developed these mirror neurons specifically for empathy 48 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: to recognize if someone was a friend or an enemy. 49 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: That's interesting, I know, Like a part of that question 50 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: was is a genetics, is an environmental can be learned whatever, 51 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: But it comes down to it can be both obviously 52 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: with everything, but there's also those I mean they talked 53 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: about those who have less empathy could actually have a 54 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: higher risk of autism. But yeah, it's really fascinating to see. 55 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: Part of that is to be able to read others 56 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: and that would be why you would read if their 57 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: offriend or an enemy? Right, And that's obviously a simplification 58 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: of a very right, big, big thing, yes, but I 59 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: wanted to include it in there because I did find 60 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: it so fun to read about. And one thing I 61 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: wanted to include as well is the difference from sympathy 62 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: sympathy versus empathy. So sympathy is the fact or power 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: of sharing the feelings of another, especially in sorrow or trouble, 64 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: feeling compassion or commiseration. Every time I hear that word, 65 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: I think of the blink song, all the small things, 66 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: who's out there? Then you know and nineties reference. There 67 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: we go the ni okay, I'm actually I'm not sure. 68 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: Um So. Practicing good empathy means creating a safe space 69 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: to identify and understand the feelings of others, as opposed 70 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: to street mirroring. A lot of that is also being 71 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: able to dig into yourself and kind of remembering if 72 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: you went through something similar that emotion rather and there's 73 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 1: a couple of types of empathy. There's effective empathy, which 74 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: is the I know how you feel empathy. You can 75 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: feel what other people are feeling, um and experience compassion 76 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: for them. There's cognitive empathy, This is knowing and understanding 77 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: the emotions of others, getting a more full picture of 78 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: how they feel. And then there is excess or hyper empathy. 79 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: So I would call this like the sponge equivalent of empathy. 80 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: Or I imagine if Mantis couldn't turn off her art, 81 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: control her powers and guardians of the galaxy, this would 82 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: be her. But that's all theory. Um So, you suffer 83 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: from the emotions of others exactly. And um, I was 84 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: gonna say to kind of go back to the scientific 85 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: portion of that, it could be a superpower or it 86 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: could be a hinderance. For sure, if you could truly 87 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: feel about that person feeling much like mantis, that's a superpower, right, Okay, 88 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: she had fans, Yeah she did until that quill he 89 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: would win everything with his hubris is great tomorrow, I'm 90 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: just gonna talk all about this now. I'm with you, 91 00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: I'm here with you. But yeah, and also with the 92 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: effective empathy, I was going to say, that's one of 93 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: those that kind of um can actually hinder a conversation 94 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: if it comes back to the I know how you feel, 95 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: I know this, I know that, which I know is 96 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: a mistakes some therapist and some caseworkers have made and 97 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: trying to be overly empathetic, but kind of it's almost 98 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: dismisses the others because it becomes too common, you know 99 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: what I mean. It feels like, oh, you feel that way, 100 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: I'm not an unusual or something like that. Not that 101 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: you want to be unusual, but sometimes it over takes 102 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: the conversation and you need to be with them in 103 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: that moment instead of you'll get past it. I've been 104 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: there type of thing. Um. And then the excess of 105 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: our hyper empathy, which you and I talked about. I 106 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I struggle. I'm not gonna say I 107 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: could completely be diagnosed with this, but I know for me, 108 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: when I watched movies that have intense, humiliating things, I 109 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: cannot watch it. It took me. So when was The 110 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: Office originally out? Oh, dear, a long time ago, thou 111 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: some twelve. That is not correct, Okay. I was like, 112 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: it's not two thousand twelve, that's wrong. Okay, let me 113 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: look it up. Anyway, Um, when that show came out, 114 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: I could not watch it because I remember watching the 115 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: first episode and cringing so hard that I immediately had 116 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: to turn it off, Like my face turned red, my 117 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: heart kind of had this anxiety, and I was like, nope, nope, nope. Now, 118 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: yeah it came out two thousand five. Um, you were 119 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: way off. So yes, The Office came out in two 120 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: thousand five. When I originally try to watch because everybody 121 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: was in love with this show, and I was like, no, 122 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: oh my god, no, this is the worst thing ever. 123 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: And for me, the Office English version is even worse, 124 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: and I still can't get past season one. I don't 125 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: think I passed the first three episodes because it was 126 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: the British version. I was like, I can't do this. 127 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: That's awful, cringe like beyond controty, like I physically cannot 128 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: sit to watch it. And now like two thousand I 129 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: think I've watched it for the first time last year, 130 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: and now I watched all the time because I know 131 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: when to fast forward it. That's how I watch it now. 132 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: Any cringeworthy, I just best forward it through. So usually 133 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: usually yeah, pretty much all I'm watching is like the 134 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: whole Antics between Um Dwight and Andy and Jim and 135 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: Jim and Pam. Like that's pretty much the Michael Michaels 136 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: kindly does not exist essentially. Um, they've got no no 137 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: who is Michael Um. But yeah, that's how I watch things. 138 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: But also when I go to movies, if I don't 139 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: know what to expect, um, I take even if it's 140 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: like ninety d degrees outside, I'll have a jacket or 141 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: a blanket so I can hide underneath it, and I'll 142 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: cover my face and cover my ears. Like that's the 143 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: level that I get to so it's I definitely understand that. 144 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: And even in work, like I will have moments where 145 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: I read an ace and I have I think I've 146 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: told people one of the things I have to do 147 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: is read about their past um charges in our events 148 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: or whatever the situation was, to put us to that moment. 149 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: So there's been a crime committed, there's been that, like, 150 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: I feel the intensity of either the victim or the 151 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: kids so much that I have to put it aside um, 152 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: and it can break me down to the point that 153 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: sometimes I've been questioned, is this a good job for you? 154 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: But at the same time that is partially to me 155 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: be like, nobody motivates me too, But yeah, I know that, 156 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: and I know I'm not the only one. We all 157 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: have different ways. Because I was talking to my coworker 158 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: today and I asked her how did she handle it, 159 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: And she literally says, I make myself forget because that's 160 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: the level of that excess empathy that you don't know 161 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: how to quite turn it off and you have to 162 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: figure out your defense mechanisms right um, And I found 163 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: this creat I wanted to include from Emmett Fitzgerald. I 164 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: had never been told that empathy is a finite resource. 165 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: You can run out as a normal psychological response. You 166 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: cannot give up yourself again and again and again without replenishing, right. 167 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: And I would think that's where we would talk about burnout, 168 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: and you talk about burnout and and I know you 169 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: mentioned this later, but compassion fatigue UM and how it 170 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: does wear you down and and part of that is 171 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: the mere fact when I looked through some of the studies, 172 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: people like doctors and nurses and who are hands on 173 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: have I think that the rate of society, which is 174 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: not as high as I thought it would be. And honestly, 175 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: social workers are even less. That surprised me too because 176 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: I assumed social workers and case workers would have that mindset. 177 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: But I know addiction is pretty high, relationship failures are 178 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: pretty high for social workers and case workers and therapists 179 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: and such um. But it is it's uh, it's one 180 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: of those things that you do eventually run out and 181 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: it gets to the point that I call it being decisonized. 182 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: I mean not I don't call it, but it's being 183 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: decision ties to what it is and becoming more and 184 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: more crafts and being more and more hardened. And I 185 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: hate because that's being in social work for ten years, 186 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: I feel like nothing affects me as much. Don't get 187 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: me wrong, I still have breakdowns and I still look 188 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: for the good. But I do feel like I've become 189 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: a little more harsh and more critical of today's society 190 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: because of all the things that I've had to try 191 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: to learn to deal with and or empathize with, and 192 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: or even try to fix. Yeah, and UM, one of 193 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: the the thing you said about your friend, UM, kind 194 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: of making herself forget, reminded me of something I read. 195 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: And it was an account from a I think it 196 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: was a new nurse and she witnessed I think somebody 197 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: die and she was so upset and like trying to 198 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: pull herself together. And I saw the nurse who had 199 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: been there longer than her, completely fine. And she asked 200 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: that nurse like, how are you? How did you get 201 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: to this point? I need to have this control that 202 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: you did, And and the other nurse said to her, 203 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: I wish I could deal feel things like good, right, Um? 204 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's a pretty powerful, powerful story, right, 205 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: and it it becomes a constant thing. I remember when 206 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: I started with the children Family and Children's Services and 207 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: being an investigator. Um, one of the first things that 208 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: I learned is all people coming in with bright eye, 209 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: but you tell hopes of saving the world. And don't 210 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: get me wrong, that's the whole reason I wanted to 211 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: social work. I wanted to save the world. I want 212 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 1: to save the kids. I want to help these women, 213 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: I want to empower others. And then a year later, 214 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I'm putting band aids on you know, 215 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: gunshot wounds essentially, and hoping for the best, or I'm 216 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: picking I mean, I remember using the term picking the 217 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: lesser evil all the time because it literally was do 218 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: I take this child away from something that they're used 219 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: to with a parent that they grew up with, or 220 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: do I put them into a new situation that's a 221 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: better environment, but they are taken away and they have 222 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: nothing familiar. As well as because they're older, they're probably 223 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: never going to find stability again. You know, it's kind 224 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: of like, at least it was a bad stability, but 225 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: it was stability or new stability without or without the 226 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: actual grounding of family and caring. And I remember just 227 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: having to sit with the judges, like I had one 228 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: of the best judges that I worked with, as well 229 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: as large were like, what is the better choice? And 230 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: oftentimes I would look and say it's better for them 231 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: to be with a family with us looking on hopefully, 232 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: instead of yanking them out of a placement um and 233 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: putting them in this situation. And you know, I want 234 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: to give a shout out to all the foster care 235 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: parents too, like I don't think enough credit is given 236 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: to the ones that are really great, because I'm going 237 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: to tell you there's some not great ones, just like 238 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: in anything else, but the great ones are taken advantage 239 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: of and they are the first to be burned out, 240 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: um immediately and I would say burned out probably six months. 241 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: And because if we find if a defense worker or 242 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: a family children service worker who's a foster care worker, 243 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: find one good family, they will try to use them 244 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: all the time because we know what to expect. We 245 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: know they'll do a good job. And oftentimes it's so 246 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: taxing on them with the very little support they get. 247 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: And I'm going to tell you, majority of the people 248 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: who think you get money, that's not a thing. Um. 249 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: It can be a build up, Like if you have 250 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: ten kids in your home and you have some kind 251 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: of backing, maybe things it can happen. It has happened, 252 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: But oftentimes this is not about money. And when we 253 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: look at these foster parents and the good ones, we 254 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: run them into the ground. And I could see that 255 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: they are probably one of the first to be like, 256 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. And that's where that's where 257 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: we leave in such a mess of not having enough 258 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: homes for some of these teenagers who are just trying 259 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: to find something safe. Yeah, and um, while empathy is right, 260 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: generally a good thing and can help you not get 261 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: replaced by robots in the future, according to research, that's 262 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: one of the few things that robots have not figured out. 263 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: That's what I said. I argued with someone about that 264 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: on my social workers will not be replaced. Um, case 265 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: workers and therapists will not be replaced by robots. People 266 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: have argued with me, I don't understand how they would 267 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: learn empathy. Well, now that you said that, they're going 268 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: to figure it out. That's all they need. I believe 269 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: it's Yeah, it's like a complex social job that requires 270 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: some kind of right empathy. Anyway, that's a different podcast. 271 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk about the droids, well we should, 272 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: but right now we're talking about empathy, and yes, too 273 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: much of it can be a bad thing, and we'll 274 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: get into that, but first let's take a quick break 275 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. 276 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: Empathy can become a bad thing if it starts to 277 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: impact your mental, emotional, and or physical health, which we've 278 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: been talking about all these right. It can lead to 279 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: high concentrations of the stress hormone cortisol and feelings of depression, guilt, pain, exhaustion, 280 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: being overwhelmed, all of which can lead to burnout, especially 281 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: if you take on the responsibility of fixing someone else's problems. Yes, 282 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: which is yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think 283 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: I may have used this word before, and I realized 284 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: later that a lot of people don't understand what it is. 285 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: Perentified UM and that's when which child takes on the 286 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: role of a caretaker or a parent. UM. So you'll 287 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: see this with families who have drug issues in the home. 288 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: I would I would run into that all the time, 289 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: where I would see the parents we've passed out. But 290 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: there's two kids, a five year old and two year old. 291 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: In the five year old would be taking care of 292 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: the two year old UM. And also you, and I 293 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: talked about the fact earlier in our own trauma when 294 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: people would be like, oh, you're so you're so adult, 295 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: you're so mature, which is not necessarily a healthy thing, 296 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: and to me, it is very unhealthy. Um, when a 297 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: child can't be a child, That's what I like to say, 298 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: because for myself, I think I had talked about this 299 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: earlier too, when my mom and I were talking about 300 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: my relationship with her growing up. And then my brother, 301 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: who is their biological child and I am adopted, was 302 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 1: right here when I was seven. Our relationships were so different, 303 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: and I remember UM at one point she was trying 304 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: to talk about UM, the brother, you know, being used 305 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: to being the only child, the youngest child, and you 306 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: know whatever, and she was like, you were already an 307 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: adult when I got you. That's how she put it, 308 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: And she was right, because I was always in survival mode. 309 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: And so for me coming to a home does not 310 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: make me um a child again, that doesn't immediately happen. 311 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: And I think part of my empathy comes from want 312 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: to take care of myself as well as others, because 313 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: that's what I did. That's what I've known, like, that's 314 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: the only thing I've known, and I see that in 315 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: a lot of younger kids as well. And if you 316 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: kind of look at like um oldest kids, the older kids, 317 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: they're much the bossy ones, they're much like that as well. 318 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: And I think is the caretaker coming out in them. 319 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: Maybe it's the empathy of wanting to care for everyone 320 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: and making sure they're safe and feeling the best that 321 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: are part of their responsibility. Yeah, that's an interesting thing. 322 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: I think I just went want to change it the 323 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: middle child? Where do I fall? Trying to keep the peace? 324 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: Middle children? Try to keep the peace. That's what I 325 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: have said. I would agree with that. Well, I don't 326 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: want to make any sweeping generals generalization. Yes, that's what 327 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: I see. So if you do have too much empathy, 328 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: or you're burning out from empathy, some things you might 329 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: start doing or notice yourself start doing. Is Um. You 330 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: might start pushing people away if you're feeling their emotions. 331 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: That make sense. Um, if you're suffering from their emotions. 332 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: You might walk into a room with people and experience 333 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: as an emotion without knowing why for anyone to said 334 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: anything to you. Um, you might feel physical pain. You 335 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: might not be able to stop thinking about the other 336 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: person's pain. The thought of going to an event with 337 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: someone with an emotional state that will impact you might 338 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: fill you with dread. Yeah. Um, Honestly, I know people 339 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: who have too much empathy that are not in my 340 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: field can't be around me. And I know I'm like, yeah, 341 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: I understand that I'm exhausting. I'm like the negative Nelly 342 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: of the group because if I've had a rough day, 343 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: which I walked in today, I'm like, oh my gosh, 344 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: I'm a most cell um. It literally becomes taxing yea 345 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: for others around me, and I recognize that. I think 346 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: that's part of the reason I'm also an introverted, like 347 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: I can't deal with me today, which I have to recognize, Yep, 348 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: I've had a really stressful day, or I've had a 349 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: really hard week, or I've had a really traumatic week, 350 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: and I can't figure out how not to let this 351 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: affect me on a daily basis, or like my every 352 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: every moment, normal moment be affected by this. And that's 353 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: kind of like I think we talked about it in 354 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: the Trauma episode about our coping mechanism. I have two 355 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: or three or four people that I trust that know 356 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: me well enough that they can't handle that, or also 357 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: they can tell me to stop, because that's part of 358 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: that too, and because a few of those people are 359 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: social workers in or in the field as well, and 360 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: they also have their own dilemma where we will both 361 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: have to be like, Okay, I can't buy this right now, 362 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: and that's that line. Um And And honestly, I definitely 363 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: felt that physical pain. I definitely had my I think 364 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: I told the story about my neck giving out for 365 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: weeks at a time because I was so stressed and 366 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: I was so worried about um, these children dying in 367 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: or something happening because I didn't do something fast enough, 368 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: or being blamed for it. And that came from like 369 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: not only did these individual things happened, but it was 370 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: definitely a build up, so you get stressed out. I 371 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 1: stopped sleep, being stopped sleeping as my next started hurting, 372 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: my next started hurting, I started getting tense. Everything hid 373 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: into and I'm shut down. The same thing that that 374 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: I used to get sick all the time, and I 375 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: mean like Blu Sintons and all of that. And it 376 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: was a lot to do with the fact that I 377 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: wasn't taking care of myself. We all know, sleep is very, very, 378 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: very important, and if you have anxiety attacks, panic attacks, whatever, 379 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: and you can't sleep, that disrupts everything. You know, that's 380 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: part of the whole empathy partition is how do you 381 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: let it go? Yeah, and I know later on we're 382 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: going to talk. We talked to Dr Jane, who I'm 383 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: always like, I'm already fascinated by and I've been talking 384 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: about people to her. No, let me try it again. 385 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: I've been talking to people about her because I think 386 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: she's fascinating. I think she's got some really groundbreaking eye 387 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: um concepts when it comes to PTSD and treatment of PTSD, 388 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: which again I'm gonna talk about later. But I know 389 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: that the whole idea is you have to be able 390 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: to separate yourself, but it's almost impossible sometimes because you 391 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: have that again, that idea that you're gonna come and 392 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: fix something, and when you fail, it is the one 393 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: of the most painful blows I think you can go 394 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: through when you really stacked up in My life is 395 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: built here and I want to do these for these people, 396 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: and holy sh I felt again it's just so heartbreaking 397 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: and it's kind of one of those things that again 398 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: Lisa burnout and you just want to quit because you 399 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: just can't see the better or the good ending to 400 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: any of it. Yeah, And we talked about that a 401 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: little bit in our episode around women in the medical 402 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: field and how high the burnout rate is. According to 403 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: the d s M five, hyper empathy syndrome is associated 404 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: with personality disorders an ongoing difficulty to function due to 405 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: the distress from the syndrome. So this is a thing. 406 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: It's like recognized, um. And here are some of the 407 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: key symptoms. Breakdown of identity and loss of social skills, 408 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: mood swings. I need to solve everyone's problems, to cultivate 409 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: the image of being valuable and needed by constantly doing 410 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: favors for others, finding it hard to say no to 411 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: people for fear of disappointing them, lack of boundaries, over 412 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: protectiveness to an extreme, going so far as to impact 413 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: the autonomy of others. And all of this can lead 414 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: to resentment from feeling that no one understands you know. 415 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: One get they think you're being overprotective. Don't they see 416 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: I'm just doing I'm just being nice. Um. And it 417 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: can yeah, impact your immune system. So I feel personally attacked, right, now, 418 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: sorry intervention, just from reading this list. You know what though, 419 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, these things are very real, and these 420 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: things are very personal to me, because I will absolutely 421 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: this is me to a t um I'm a bossy one. 422 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: Hey hey, hey, hey too quickly stop that um no. 423 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: I uh. It's funny because in my little apartment complex 424 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: it's like a Ford quadplex. I'm the mother of the group, 425 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: to the point that they go on trips and like, 426 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: can you text me when you make it there? I 427 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: have no reason to. We don't live together. I barely 428 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: know them that well. I do know them. They're really 429 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: good friends, but like their neighbors, that's it. But I 430 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: feel the need to make sure they're okay. I'm also 431 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: the same one that goes around parties. Have you had 432 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: enough food? Did you eat this? Did you want to 433 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: try this? How about I give you this? Like it's 434 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: just an overall need to make sure you're comfortable and 435 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: that you're happy. And because if you're anxious, I'm anxious. 436 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: I see it, and I'm nervous, and I hate the 437 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: feeling of like someone not feeling welcomed. That gives me nightmares. 438 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: But when I was younger, I would cry about that 439 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: if I felt like someone felt like they were left out, 440 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: like I was in turmoil about all of that. But 441 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to stick it to all of 442 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: the workers out there, all of our therapists and social 443 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: workers and teachers and nurses and medical people. I know 444 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: I'm leaving out so many who are pretty much in 445 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: combat all the time in their job. But it's so 446 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: hard not to be these things and trying to be effective. 447 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: And that's that's like kind of like how do you 448 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: find those boundaries? And you do and you have to. 449 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: And the reason we want to talk about this is 450 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: because again, people who have gone through trauma like myself, 451 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: want to be in a field that can help others. 452 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: And I can guarantee, if not way more probably of 453 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: social workers and people who are in UM protective type 454 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: of services and including nursing and all of that, it's 455 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: because they want they have gone through something and they 456 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: want to make something better, right. And I think part 457 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: of our problem, and that is we have put so 458 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: much about identity and doing good that if we don't 459 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: see the results, especially in a lifetime, sometimes I feel 460 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: like I've I've never seen the result, a good result, 461 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: um that you have failed in life and the things. 462 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: So for me it goes as deep as to say 463 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: that I used my trauma because I want to say 464 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: I went through these bad things to do these good things, 465 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: and then when I don't have the end result of 466 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: doing good things, it just feels like I've failed, and 467 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: which is absolutely untrue. Um, And have to tell myself 468 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: that all the time. I have to tell other people 469 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: that all the time. And I would tell our listeners, 470 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: those who out there who know exactly what I'm talking about, 471 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: you have not failed, just because in the self that 472 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: you care and are trying that has done so much 473 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: more for our society than anything else, that that's probably 474 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: why we haven't completely crumbled into the nastiness that it 475 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: could be. Just to go on my tangent, the patented 476 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: Samantha and I haven't had a lot of those, especially 477 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: when I'm especially I I remember once somebody asked me like, 478 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: if you could go back to this this event and 479 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: not have gone through it, would you? And I had 480 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: to think about it for for it because I I 481 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm not the obvious answer be yes, 482 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: But then at the same time I don't know what 483 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: I would have come Um, so there is that kind 484 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: of weird if I went through this, at least it 485 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: meant this, right, I mean, it went as far as 486 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure you're I know you already said it that 487 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: at least it didn't happen to someone else. Yeah, like 488 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: that's that's the underlying But as well, like I which 489 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: is absolutely not true that you were meant to handle 490 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: this situation, because we're going to throw out with that 491 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: whole you're only given as much as you can handle. 492 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: That's not necessarily true. Sometimes you've just given really the hands, um, 493 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: and that's what happens. But in the end, usually people 494 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: who have gone through these things come out I mean, 495 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: for me and I know you love for you, at 496 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: least it wasn't someone else. At least it wasn't your 497 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: siblings as you were spoken about, and at least it 498 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: wasn't other kids and that you know, orphanage. For me, 499 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: that's how I think think through um. At the same time, yeah, 500 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: it sucks. I still don't want to remember that. No, Nope. 501 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: And going back to this whole hyper empathy thing. Science 502 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: is looking into why that happens, and all of the 503 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: research is pretty new, but it points to it possibly 504 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: being a genetic disorder. Oh really, well, I did read 505 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: the case, um, when we were looking through this, about 506 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: a woman who went through a brain injury and coming 507 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: out with hyper sensitive to the point that it was 508 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: physically hurting her this hyper empathy. Beforehand, she did not 509 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: have any of those types of symptoms. So that's really fascinating. 510 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: I would love to love more and what exactly is 511 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: completely wrong with me? This syndrome and too much empathy 512 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: in general, particularly in women in heterosexual relationships, can lead 513 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: to women justifying the actions of abusive or psychopathic partners. 514 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: People who are who are too empathetic might be unable 515 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: to recognize or too ready to excuse predatory behavior. Right. 516 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: And then at the same time, we all I want 517 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: to talk about the women who have children and these relationships, 518 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: and oftentimes I've heard it many times they're good to 519 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: my kids, um, and or they're protecting their kids and 520 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: or as financial, as we've talked about previously, the fine 521 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: Meal slayers, like, yes, all these bad things are happening 522 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: to me, but without him, my kids could not do 523 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: a BC and D, you know, And that's that's absolutely 524 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: part of that whole empathy thing. Again, protecting others blaming 525 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: themselves UM and then just feeling like I deserved this 526 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: maybe you know what I mean. And it's such a 527 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: whole again. Also, these partners understand that and use that 528 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: and manipulate that. As we've talked about previously with grooming UM, 529 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: they know they can see. And this is why I 530 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: talked about the fact that domestic violence as well as 531 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: partner violence can be a thing that we looked at 532 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: as UM a manipulative thing. And why we say that 533 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: is grooming and and part of that is that personality 534 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: factor of Okay, well you can see she's easy to manipulate. 535 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: I can groom hard of life this way, and this 536 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: is where we go. And then too much empathy would 537 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: be a very good point in what you see mm hmm. 538 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: And related to this, a tendency to overgive UM might 539 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: come from a past abusive relationship or growing up with 540 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: a narcissistic guardian. It can also result from being in 541 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: a community that focuses on giving. I read in places 542 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,479 Speaker 1: like a religious community or I would say women in 543 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: general being socialized that way. And we talked about religion 544 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: before as part of like grooming as well. I know 545 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: we did that, but let that honestly comes through UM. 546 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: When you see, especially in the way in the past, 547 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: that women were told not to leave their husbands. Literally 548 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: when they talked about the Bible, the only reason a 549 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: woman could leave a man was for adultery, and that's 550 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: after being like confronted by four or five and they 551 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: could not and the woman could not remarry or that 552 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: would be considered considered adultery. They don't talk about the 553 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: physical abuse, they don't about physical violence, they don't talk 554 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: about rape as a thing. You know, all of these 555 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: things that we know right now that it's wrong, it's 556 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: never really addressed. So therefore, I know I have seen 557 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: in my lifetime where women were told to stay with 558 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: their men in an abusive relationship because you made about 559 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: a god. I literally have heard that, and it's the 560 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: most unreal thing to me that I just I don't 561 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: quite understand that. And honestly, we could even talk about 562 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: today's um abortion laws coming through talking to about the 563 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: fact that women who are going to be made to 564 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: have a pregnancy or be charged, even if if it 565 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: was against their will. That's absurd and that's a very 566 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: religious idea. And this is the whole level of like 567 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: from what I can gather empathy, I'm gonna say empathy. 568 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: Of course, there's a whole underlying turn with like a 569 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: patriarchy and and this is the whole idea that women 570 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: can't be trusted and women's body should monitored whatever. But 571 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: there's also this bit where the women feel, especially women 572 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: who have had children, will say, well, you've never had children, 573 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: this is a murderer. I would never do this to 574 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: my child. So that that level of weird empathy comes 575 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: to an unborn being, I guess, just for all intendent 576 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: purposes of fetus, essentially in going beyond the regular Yeah, 577 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: but what about the woman? What about who again should 578 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: be trusted? Never mind that, But the empathy goes onto 579 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: the fetus, and that's from the women in itself, which 580 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, but you're a woman, you want someone to 581 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: tell you whether you can be trusted with your body? 582 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, because it goes into that level. To me, 583 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: that's an odd example because it's almost like an example 584 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: of having no empathy for the woman, um, but all 585 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: that's empathy for the unborn child. And frankly, men, I 586 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: mean that that's because the women that some of the 587 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: women that I work with and just being in the 588 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: South and just being with an old you know, in 589 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: an old fashioned town where they are supporting this bill, 590 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: which seems ridiculous in itself, especially they're talking about criminalizing doctors, 591 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: criminalizing women who um may have late term abortions, not 592 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: because they want to, but because they have to medically, 593 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: and they still are talking about penalizing them. Um. You 594 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: see these impassioned bets from these other women who talk 595 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: about how why don't they care about the children? This 596 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: is murder, This is murder, and I that's it's really 597 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: hard to argue murder. Let's just leave that out there. Um, 598 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: But that's where they're coming from, and a lot of 599 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: them genuinely break down on that note without thinking about 600 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: the women's perspective, the the adult female who is having 601 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: to go through this. What you may not understand the 602 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: background of that it was incest, rape, or whether it's 603 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: men coal problems that that are happening. They just don't 604 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: give all outs to that. They just think about that 605 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: unborn child or fetus. I'm just gonna leave it that 606 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: the fetus before they're actually developed into Sure, I'm a 607 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: church child or whatever you wanna call it. And We've 608 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: been talking already about certain careers that are higher risk 609 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: for this UM empathy burnouts, and yeah, it is people 610 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: in kind of caring fields. And it's something that is 611 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: called frequently compassion fatigue. Right. And I pulled this out 612 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 1: from one of the articles written in a social work 613 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: UM magazine talking about too much empathy or how to 614 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: self care UM, and they talk about seconday trauma is 615 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: a reaction to dealing with other people's situations. UM. But 616 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: burnout is related to the job environments when in which 617 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: we work, and the stress is attached to these jobs 618 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: and requirements like paperwork or poor supervision or support, which 619 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: is a constant. When you have to have these giant 620 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,439 Speaker 1: results with very minimal support, it's impossible. And that's when 621 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: burnett happens because you really can't do much UM. And 622 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: when burnout and the secondary trauma are both present and 623 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: an individual is to be said, UM, they are experiencing 624 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: compassion fatigue. UM. So just exactly what it is. You're 625 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: you're just tired, and you just want to give up, 626 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: and you don't want to think about it, and you 627 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: just don't care. That's kind of where it comes down to, 628 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: and you become numb UM, and you can become jaded, 629 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: but there is UM. Something they were talking about also 630 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 1: that there is something called compassion satisfaction UM and being 631 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: satisfied with doing the work of a care in other words, 632 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: UM gratification for helping others makes the strains of the 633 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: work worth it. UH. And it's not uncommon to see 634 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: social workers continuing their jobs because even after the breakdown 635 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: and that was me. I literally had a breakdown when 636 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: I was a child abuse, an investigator went and didn't 637 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: any and then I came back because I missed advocating. UM. 638 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 1: But it's still really hard to continue day to day sometimes. 639 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: And UM, I think one of the things that doesn't 640 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: happen enough now When I tell people I'm a social worker, 641 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 1: the response is usually oh wow, that's hard to almost pity. 642 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: That is not the best reaction to get it sometimes, 643 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: But I mean, I think we need to do more. 644 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: I would love it if people truly heard what was 645 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: happening and instead of them like deeming them the bad guys, 646 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: because if you watched, like I'm really build law in 647 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: order like SVU, the social workers were always the bad guys. 648 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 1: They were never they always lied or they did this 649 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: like it was awful or they just didn't care enough, 650 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: or they were compassion enough, and they were just too cold. 651 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: And I'm like, come on, guys, why do you have 652 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: to make them look like the bad guy here? You know, 653 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: of course, what's her name? The main character? I've never 654 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: seen it. What I know, I exist outside of space 655 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: and time. I've never seen an episode of Law and 656 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 1: Order anything. Well, Olivia was her name, and the character Um. 657 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: She was always the most compassionate one, caring for the 658 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: kids and all of that. And there's an episode I 659 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: see has with Um. His name is Finn in the 660 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: character has been a long time. Um has a battle 661 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: with one of the social workers and she gets blamed 662 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: for this death of this child. It was this whole 663 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: big thing, and I hate that. And even in the 664 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: news today you read so much about how and don't 665 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: get me wrong, it may have absolutely been the worker's fault. 666 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: Why didn't they check up on this CHOBD, why didn't 667 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: they do this whatever, But they don't understand the backlash 668 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: of what things happened, like how the judicial system works. 669 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: And the fact is we honestly case workers cannot do 670 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: much without the approval of someone higher up at all times, 671 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: but that's what you see them as the bad guy, 672 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: and I think stuff like that. And then also that's 673 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: one of the big cuts that happened. They don't get 674 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: paid much um, they don't get any kind of rewards, 675 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: and they don't really get many raises. I don't think 676 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: there's been any rays in the State of Georgia in 677 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 1: a while, not even cost of living. I don't think 678 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: that that could. I haven't been in Defects and the 679 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: Children's the investigative side in a long time, but I 680 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,399 Speaker 1: know when I worked there there wasn't um. And that's 681 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: part of the problem is when yes, this is really 682 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: nice and I would love to fix things and I 683 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: would love my work to be this, But if I 684 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: can't take care of myself, and if I'm being blamed 685 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: and all the time that I'm scared to death of 686 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: being blamed for something that I can't control, how do 687 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: you keep going right? And how do you get that 688 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: compassion satisfaction mm hmm, passion satisfaction And I like that. Yeah. 689 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: I think Page from Charmed was a social worker, and 690 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: I think Christianity from it takes two for the Mary 691 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: Kate Nashley, if I don't know she she works, she 692 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: was involved somehow. I was gonna say, if I'm a 693 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: witch and I have powers, it would be fantastic. I 694 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: could do so many things with some telepowers. Telepowers, that's 695 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: like you're calling it. Yes, if I had some powers 696 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,240 Speaker 1: in general, Oh sure, I could do all the things 697 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: or whatever your power allowed you to do, do that 698 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: thing specifically. But we do have a little bit more 699 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: for you listeners. But first we have one more quick 700 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 1: break for word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank 701 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: you sponsor. So we wanted to include in here tips 702 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: on practicing good empathy because a lot of what we've 703 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: been talking about is the negative side of empathy, or 704 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: the extreme that's too much empathy. What this could look 705 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: like if you have too much empathy, right, But if 706 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: you wanna practice good empathy, um, you want to practice 707 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: self awareness, openness, and non judgmental listening. If you notice 708 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: that you are reacting to something emotionally, then you want 709 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: to take a moment, take a breath, clear your mind, 710 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: and focus on how you want to feel, which is 711 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: open or like listen. Right, and again, I think again, 712 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: one of the things that we talked about with in general, 713 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: with trauma, PTSD and being triggered, which is kind of 714 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: what happens here. Sometimes meditation, doing the one two three 715 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: technique or being grounded it actually is helpful for that 716 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: as well. To prevent burnout, experts recommend setting up boundaries, 717 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: take care of yourself, have compassion for yourself UM, and 718 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: be mindful of your knees, recognize toxic behavior in others 719 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: and learning to keep a distance and learning that that 720 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: is okay. It doesn't mean you aren't empathetic. You're keeping 721 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: your identity and emotions from getting mixed up with others. 722 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: And I call this responsible empathy UM, because if you 723 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: get burnt out or become numb, you can't help others 724 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: as successfully. Yeah. And as we talked about before the 725 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: fact that is, if you're not caring for yourself, how 726 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: you expected to care for others UM, And all of 727 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,240 Speaker 1: that again as to remember that you are a person, 728 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: and you have flaws and you can make mistakes and 729 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: it's okay. And I think that's one of the biggest 730 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: thing is to forgive yourself and to allow yourself to 731 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: be human. It's really hard when you want to fix things. 732 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: It's really hard when you feel too much I mean, 733 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: believe me, I beat myself up every day aslim sometimes 734 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: sit down and just go back over the wrong things 735 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: that I did, which is a horrible practice. Please don't 736 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,959 Speaker 1: do this, and if you do, do what I also do. 737 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: Huggle into your dog if you don't have a dog, 738 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: look at pictures of what makes you happy, whether it's 739 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: to read ben fiction, place some d and d um. 740 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,760 Speaker 1: Actually you and I have gotten into some card games. 741 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 1: I'm now jumping into that world. I feel like I 742 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: have to start concentrating a little more so I can 743 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: be a part of the crew now. Um. But yeah, 744 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,360 Speaker 1: doing things and allowing yourself to turn off your brain. 745 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,240 Speaker 1: And I know I talked about babysit your brain, movies 746 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: type of thing to turn that off, and it's so hard, 747 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: and whether it's sometimes I had to play Candy Rush. 748 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes I actually love words, see things those the word finders, 749 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: love those and just sitting and watching reruns where I 750 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 1: don't have to think about anything else, but I can 751 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 1: just concentrate on whatever nonsense is happening. And that's really 752 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: important too. And it's important to again be empathetic towards 753 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: yourself and remember again you're not God. Hey, God, You're 754 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: not a superhero as much as you would like to be, UM, 755 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: and even the superheroes have bad days. We saw this 756 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,840 Speaker 1: on all of the vengeances. Is like a superhero is bad, right, 757 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:06,280 Speaker 1: And and being UM, caring for yourself and keeping a distance, 758 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: like you said, and shutting things off doesn't mean you're 759 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 1: being nomin or callous, and sometimes that can regenerate you. 760 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: And to literally one of the big things we've been 761 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 1: talking about in our own field, taking a vacation, turning 762 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: your email off, turning your settings off, go out of 763 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: the country if you can afford it, and turning your 764 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: phone off if not, literally giving your phone, your work phone, 765 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: and your computer to someone else and walk away like 766 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,479 Speaker 1: and I will say, up until last year, I never 767 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 1: did this. I never took a loan more than two 768 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 1: days off, and even then I had my phone on 769 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: me all day, all times, because in the back of 770 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: my mind, like this is affects a child's life, Like 771 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't just stop because I'm on vacation. But because 772 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't doing this, I was failing them because I 773 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: would becoming more and more angry. I became resentful UM 774 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 1: at my job, you know. And then the fact that 775 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: I had to invest so much, and I would look 776 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: around and like people are doing this like me, which 777 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: is not true at all. That was me being one 778 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: of the hyper empathy symptoms that we talked about earlier. UM. 779 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: But yeah, just being able to walk away physically and 780 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 1: literally from whatever it is that has taken you down 781 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 1: this bad path. Right, and we are planning a beach vacation. 782 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: We are other things that have come up a lot 783 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,240 Speaker 1: in our conversation around good coping. But it's also useful here, 784 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: things like yeah, meditation, yoga, exercise or yeah, it's something 785 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: that helps you let go of your absorbed negative emotions 786 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: UM and helps you practice mindfulness. And again, community is 787 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: really really important UM. And I have a really great 788 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: community for different aspects of my life and my coworkers. 789 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: I think I've talked about the co worker I had 790 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: when I was at as a child, a beast investigator. 791 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 1: We literally would take Saturdays and go hiking all day 792 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: UM and that, and we would talk about whatever was happening, 793 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,319 Speaker 1: but then we would also talk about our personal life 794 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: and it was really nice and releasing. UM. Even now 795 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: I will get together with my coworker, we leave the office, 796 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: go to lunch and have a long lunch where we 797 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: can actually talk about our day, what's going on, and 798 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: checking in on each other. And then when I get 799 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: with my community and my friends, when we can come 800 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,839 Speaker 1: out and I can give like a ten minute this 801 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:27,960 Speaker 1: is the worst, and then come to oh, but this 802 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 1: has been really hilarious. This is what's happening here, and 803 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: this is what's happening here. Like it's really important to 804 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: not isolate yourself. Again when when we were talking about 805 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: and it's really easy to do so, especially when you 806 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,319 Speaker 1: feel when I feel like I'm being toxic not only 807 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: to myself, but it could be to others or sometimes 808 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: I just don't have the energy talk, which again being 809 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: alone is good too, Like you just need to have 810 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: balance and and know yourself and know what works and 811 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:59,400 Speaker 1: what what works. When I did UM last weekend, I 812 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 1: did the uh the week Hip to Heal, which you 813 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: heard from the founders in a previous episode. UM, but 814 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,200 Speaker 1: that they did this thing I loved, which was you 815 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 1: had to speak for two minutes only positive things in 816 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 1: your life to someone, and you couldn't do you couldn't 817 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 1: have any qualifiers in it. You couldn't be like well yeah, yeah, yeah, 818 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 1: so that was really cool. And if if you ever 819 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 1: are experiencing a like a bad day or something, I 820 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,879 Speaker 1: would recommend it if it's like surprisingly hard. But yeah, 821 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,920 Speaker 1: oh yeah, those are difficult when you have to be 822 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,799 Speaker 1: nice to yourself out loud and you're not used to 823 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 1: doing that. I like my hair today. I was like, 824 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,839 Speaker 1: I've watched all the Marvel movies. Another okay, but in 825 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,479 Speaker 1: the context of trauma, I wanted to include here as well. 826 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: One of the main reasons I never have spoken up 827 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 1: about it before because I didn't want other people to 828 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,279 Speaker 1: feel bad. I I felt this responsibility for making everyone happy. 829 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: So I think that's another It's almost like anticipating some 830 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 1: way's empathy, right, So that's an other thing. And and 831 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,920 Speaker 1: my dn D character who is based on a character 832 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,760 Speaker 1: I wrote and um in his book, she was an impact, 833 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: like she could feel everybody's what they were feeling, and 834 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: she suffered for it. She suffered and it pretty much 835 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 1: killed her. So I mean, yeah, again, um, that was 836 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 1: obviously an extreme version sometimes. Yeah, I definitely feel that. 837 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:31,480 Speaker 1: I definitely have moments where if I hear something, or 838 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,399 Speaker 1: if I see something, or if I know about something, 839 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,400 Speaker 1: anything that has to do with UM child trauma that 840 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 1: has to do with adoption, fostering. It gets me, It 841 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,399 Speaker 1: gives me every time. Obviously it's so close to me anyway, UM, 842 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: but I feel it. I feel that over again. It 843 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 1: it shuts me down sometimes. UM. I remember I was asked, 844 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 1: I think I was offered a job for adoption agency 845 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,319 Speaker 1: and I just couldn't do it. I was like, this 846 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,400 Speaker 1: is too close. I don't know if I can actually 847 00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: survive doing that portion. And for me working on this show, 848 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,399 Speaker 1: I I built something that I called the callous, which 849 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 1: I think is that it's essentially the distance because it 850 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,279 Speaker 1: was so difficult in some days I would leave work 851 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:14,759 Speaker 1: rex UM and we wanted to close out here with 852 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: some tips from Dr Shelley Jane, who wrote a whole 853 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: book that about PTSD called The Unspeakable Mind, and she 854 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,560 Speaker 1: had some tips right I had. Actually I asked her 855 00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: because I think it was so personal for me, because 856 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,920 Speaker 1: all of these things were fantastic new ideas and new 857 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: concepts that she was bringing out. And she was talking 858 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: about this as in like physical medical field. So I'm like, 859 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 1: that's completely different to the usual when we treat PTSD 860 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: as a mental health thing. She's taking it as a 861 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: physical medical thing, which is fantastic because that's exactly how 862 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,799 Speaker 1: it should be looked to get to the root of 863 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 1: a lot of it. But UM, during that time, I 864 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,680 Speaker 1: did want to ask, what are you your advice? Because 865 00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,680 Speaker 1: she talked about she's been in this for twenty years 866 00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 1: and that's unheard of, and she still loves it, and 867 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,239 Speaker 1: she does a passion project about it, which is fantastic, 868 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,600 Speaker 1: and some of the stories and there were heartbreaking, as 869 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,239 Speaker 1: you and I talked about. And so one of the 870 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,279 Speaker 1: first things, one of the big things I want to 871 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 1: know is what would you say to those who are 872 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: in this field and who want to remain in this field? 873 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,920 Speaker 1: How do they care for themselves? So here you go, 874 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,600 Speaker 1: trauma's infecture. Right. Any body who through the course of 875 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,520 Speaker 1: their profession is routinely exposed to traumatic situations like bearing 876 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: witness to trauma, whether it be like first responders, whether 877 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,920 Speaker 1: it be in military, whether it be UM, you know, 878 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,799 Speaker 1: mental health professionals. To professionals, I think we have to 879 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,879 Speaker 1: recognize it for what it is. We are high risks 880 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,760 Speaker 1: are being exposed to trauma. This is like my twentieth 881 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,439 Speaker 1: year of being a doctor. UM actually nasar mark twenty years. 882 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 1: You know, I feel like, um, as I was reaching 883 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,799 Speaker 1: that twenty year mark, I feel like there was a 884 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,759 Speaker 1: lot of visage that had been building up. You know, 885 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 1: in your clinical experiences day today, when you're trying to 886 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,560 Speaker 1: take care of patients. You know, there's what happens in 887 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,080 Speaker 1: real time, right you meet them, you make the different 888 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,319 Speaker 1: make dignilities, you come up position in turn. But there 889 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,640 Speaker 1: is so much that happens in that there there are 890 00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:20,080 Speaker 1: so many other dimensions that get touched on, moral, ethical, philosophical, emotional, psychological, 891 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 1: not only for the patients but for me too, and 892 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,800 Speaker 1: they often don't get the home with the real time ready, 893 00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: you don't have time to deal with everything. You have 894 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 1: to kind of do the work that needs to get 895 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: done to kind of getting moving um, you know, and UM, 896 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,800 Speaker 1: when those other dimensions do not get extended. Two, I think, 897 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,000 Speaker 1: UM issue start to build up and it's like a 898 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,160 Speaker 1: stubborn kind of entered your studdn saying, you know, you 899 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,240 Speaker 1: start to lose your shine. There's definitely something burning inside 900 00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: of me that needs to get out. And I think 901 00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:02,239 Speaker 1: from kind of creative angle, being able to draw on 902 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:08,640 Speaker 1: twenty years of clinical experiences and kind of relive them 903 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,279 Speaker 1: and hash them out through the process of writings was 904 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,719 Speaker 1: really valuable. I felt like I could leave a lot 905 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: of stuff on the page. I think I emerged feeling lighter, 906 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 1: more rejuvenated, and hopeful that you know, maybe I can 907 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,800 Speaker 1: do this for the twenty years. Um. So for me 908 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,920 Speaker 1: answered your question, I think the writing is what helps 909 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,080 Speaker 1: me personally. One thing I don't think health care professional 910 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,120 Speaker 1: laws and care givers what we don't do enough as 911 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:43,000 Speaker 1: is just admit that what we do it's really really hot, right, 912 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,879 Speaker 1: what the work we do and the circumstances under which 913 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:51,680 Speaker 1: operate are really hard. And I do feel like we 914 00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:57,480 Speaker 1: live in this world that celebrates the trivial and doesn't 915 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:03,960 Speaker 1: value doing complicated things where you're not necessarily going to 916 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,719 Speaker 1: get a massive return on your investment. So I think 917 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,400 Speaker 1: there's a cultural turn where we have to reclaim so 918 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,719 Speaker 1: what we do is important, must to be done, but 919 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,719 Speaker 1: it's really really hard. So I think studying really realistic 920 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,880 Speaker 1: expectations it's really important. And then of course that's what 921 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,040 Speaker 1: it's really important. You have your own ways of caring 922 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:29,000 Speaker 1: for yourself and getting any any attention that you might need, 923 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,319 Speaker 1: you know, mental health wise, health wise into self care, 924 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,120 Speaker 1: and I think is an absolute non negotiable if you're 925 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,840 Speaker 1: going to do this type of world, so I do 926 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,759 Speaker 1: asually for yourself, You're you're going to survive another day 927 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,200 Speaker 1: to do something for somebody else. So it's not being 928 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:48,600 Speaker 1: selfish having healthy boundaries that brings us to the end 929 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: of this episode and uh for for our self care 930 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,960 Speaker 1: bit my D and D fact um. This one should 931 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,960 Speaker 1: have gone at the beginning, but recording times are hilario 932 00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:04,960 Speaker 1: is So, I'm actually pretty new to Dungeons and Dragons 933 00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,560 Speaker 1: and um. When we first started playing, I was super 934 00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:13,480 Speaker 1: nervous because I was problem really nervous, like you texted 935 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:18,000 Speaker 1: me about like a bad that kid do it um. 936 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,320 Speaker 1: And there was somebody in our group who I knew, 937 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,759 Speaker 1: but I didn't know her very well, and I was 938 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:27,719 Speaker 1: nervous about playing. I think there's it's one thing if 939 00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,920 Speaker 1: it's a group of friends that you really well, but 940 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,319 Speaker 1: if you started someone in there, they're like, oh no, um. 941 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,240 Speaker 1: But together we are we're a bit impulsive, as I've said, 942 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,480 Speaker 1: and our motto is fools rush in. And I had 943 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,480 Speaker 1: cuzies made for us in the Game of Thrones. Font 944 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,560 Speaker 1: Let's say that I want I want one. Maybe I 945 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: could sell me thrones wouldsume me, they would sue you, 946 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,640 Speaker 1: But I just want one. Okay, I will gift to 947 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,080 Speaker 1: you one. I feel like we should give it a 948 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: listener one that's like super into it. We need to 949 00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:58,960 Speaker 1: do like a game. Oh, we are going to do 950 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:00,839 Speaker 1: the get together, so maybe to give a couple of way. 951 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 1: Now that's true. Very what a fun story to tell someone. 952 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,120 Speaker 1: I got this from a podcast where she plays d 953 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,960 Speaker 1: n D and then anyway, um, and it works so 954 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,719 Speaker 1: with this player that I didn't know very well. And 955 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,759 Speaker 1: when I think our first session with her, UM, we 956 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:19,239 Speaker 1: were trying to figure out this cave thing and they're 957 00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,120 Speaker 1: just small opening with running water and the only way 958 00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,200 Speaker 1: it was the only way into the next room. And 959 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:27,320 Speaker 1: she could turn into animals, but only animals that she saw, 960 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,720 Speaker 1: and she had seen like a crab, so she turned 961 00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,239 Speaker 1: into a crab, but she couldn't crawl up the wall, 962 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,680 Speaker 1: so we had to roll, because that's how DND works, 963 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,680 Speaker 1: you rolled dies. We had to roll to see if 964 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,279 Speaker 1: we could successfully throw the crab like a thrisbee, and 965 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,839 Speaker 1: we succeeded. Role to throw a crab is one of 966 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,840 Speaker 1: my favorite roles. Was she so excited about this or 967 00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,480 Speaker 1: was she like what was her response? Because I can't 968 00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,839 Speaker 1: imagine saying I had this idea and then like, oh yeah, 969 00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw you like a frisbee and then you're like, okay, cool. 970 00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,279 Speaker 1: I think it was her idea. She is called her 971 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:06,240 Speaker 1: the chaos player. She always has the most hilarious creative ideas. 972 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,799 Speaker 1: That one of them is she wanted to fill my 973 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,400 Speaker 1: bag of holding with water and then turn into a whale. 974 00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,799 Speaker 1: And I can't remember why what purpose that would have 975 00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,680 Speaker 1: served As a person who has never played dn D 976 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,480 Speaker 1: and still don't quite understand D and D all of 977 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,960 Speaker 1: these things that are in my head. I wish you 978 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:28,080 Speaker 1: could understand how like dissected each of these things are 979 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,399 Speaker 1: for me that I'm like, what, this doesn't belong to this? 980 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,000 Speaker 1: And wait, I have to cut it and paste. You're 981 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,640 Speaker 1: going to come to work. I am going to come 982 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,960 Speaker 1: to one of these and you'll see excited. It'll be fun. 983 00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,600 Speaker 1: I'm excited. Um. And then my part to the fact 984 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 1: we're talking any more about Peaches, UM actually put a 985 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,680 Speaker 1: really cute Instagram story of her and Um in our 986 00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,359 Speaker 1: little neighborhood. I put a little flower crown on her 987 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,120 Speaker 1: that she ate immediately after that the pictures were taken, uh, 988 00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:58,640 Speaker 1: and made a mess of my living room with it. 989 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,600 Speaker 1: That's my fault. But I got an offer, she was like. 990 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,560 Speaker 1: They were like this little company was like, oh, we 991 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,480 Speaker 1: love your dog. We would love for you to moll 992 00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,399 Speaker 1: have her all our stuff. And I was like, first 993 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,600 Speaker 1: of all, this doesn't look real. But if I'm really 994 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,440 Speaker 1: get some free dog things, sure, So I emailed and 995 00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,560 Speaker 1: they're like, well, it's twenty five. I was like, okay, no, no, no, no, 996 00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,719 Speaker 1: no no. First of all, my dog does allow to 997 00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,880 Speaker 1: wear things. This would be from my benefit more than 998 00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:25,160 Speaker 1: her benefit. Secondly, I don't have the money because I 999 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:29,040 Speaker 1: have to pay for this dog's grain free food first 1000 00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,879 Speaker 1: as well as like the grain free trees and her 1001 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: bath and nah this this dog eats better than I 1002 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:41,120 Speaker 1: do essentially, So no, I'm not buying a fifty dollar 1003 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,320 Speaker 1: handkerchief thingy to go around her neck a scarf for 1004 00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:50,520 Speaker 1: are those I think it's a handkerchiefs, handkerchiefs, dogs scarfs, 1005 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:53,759 Speaker 1: trying to think of it. But anyway, I was really 1006 00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,560 Speaker 1: excited that my dog was gonna be a model. And 1007 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,720 Speaker 1: then I felt very very tricked. I love the idea 1008 00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,719 Speaker 1: of you being like a dot dot mom model. Yeah, 1009 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,720 Speaker 1: like you know, at the beauty pageants with the parents, 1010 00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:07,200 Speaker 1: but it's like just pieces. Yeah, like the entire time 1011 00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:12,719 Speaker 1: here looking at me like mm, she would hate it, Yes, 1012 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:17,040 Speaker 1: she would. If you have any self care stories you'd 1013 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 1: like to share, we would love to hear them. You 1014 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,439 Speaker 1: can email us at Mom's Stuff at how stuff Works 1015 00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,560 Speaker 1: dot com, or you can find us on Twitter at 1016 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,120 Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcasts or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never 1017 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,960 Speaker 1: Told You. Thanks as always to our producer Andrew Howard. 1018 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,480 Speaker 1: Thanks Andrew, Thanks to you for listening as send me 1019 00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,800 Speaker 1: your stuff. I want to know how you care for yourself, 1020 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,600 Speaker 1: social workers and people out there. Stuff I've Never Told 1021 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,959 Speaker 1: You as a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. 1022 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,360 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I 1023 00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 1024 00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:47,640 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.