1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Naked Sports. I'm your host, Carrie Champion. We 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: are rounding out season four. Believe it or not, this 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: would probably mean we have four or five more episodes 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: left before we take a brief break and come back 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: for season five. But it isn't to me. I think 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: everything is divine. I don't believe that I have this podcast, 7 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: I have this platform, and then I have moments where 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm talking to you as a family 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: because I do. And I'm really grateful for this podcast 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: because it allows me to do something I don't normally 11 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: do on TV, which is just talk as myself, not 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: worried about the camera to turn angles to the left, just 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: to have this moment to talk to you all. That's 14 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: what it is. So with that being said, on August 15 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: twenty first, one week ago from the moment, I am 16 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: recorded at twelve wow forty nine, and that's the exact 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: time it is Pacific Standard time as I record this podcast. 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: It's twelve forty nine. A week ago Thursday, my dear grandmother, 19 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: ninety five years old passed away, and I have been 20 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: telling people that I don't know, well, she lived ninety 21 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: five years, so it must be wonderful, like she had 22 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: a full life. She had a full life, and it 23 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: would be wonderful if I really believe that, But I 24 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: don't think that. 25 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: I do. 26 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: I think that she could have been ninety six years old, 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: ninety seven years old, one hundred years old, and I 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: would still feel the same pain that I feel. And 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: if you follow me for any period of time, you 30 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: know that my grandmother has been so instrumental in my life, 31 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: in every aspect of my life. I often tell the 32 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: story of how when I was a kid, I would 33 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: go to Laker games with and Clipper games, but Lakers 34 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: games more specifically, because she loved the Lakers. She grew 35 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: up in the segregated South and she played basketball, you know, 36 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: in high school. Could you imagine she was born in 37 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: the thirties and she was playing basketball, probably late forties, 38 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: early fifties, and she loved it. It was her favorite sport. 39 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: There was never an idea of her being professional or 40 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: even going to college, but she just loved the sport. 41 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: She would often joke and say, I used to do 42 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: a three pointer before three pointers were a thing, And 43 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: I guess to see that she planted in me when 44 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: I was a child, really made its way through my 45 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: life and ultimately left me with a really beautiful blessing 46 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: of a career and a wonderful platform, and beautiful friends 47 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: and a great life. I don't think that I would 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 1: be in sports if it were not for my grandmother, 49 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: A Stale Manning has been sick for some time, but 50 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: she truly has been the matriarch of our family. And 51 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: I don't think in my adult life that I have 52 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: ever dealt with such grief losing someone who means so 53 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: much to you. I'm lucky. Look, I've lived a full 54 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: life and I've never ever experienced loss in this way, 55 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: and so I consider myself lucky to have her in 56 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: my life for all of my life. But now I 57 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: am learning how to deal with grief. I have been 58 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: sad before. I have lost friends, I've lost I've been 59 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: in and out of relationships. I've had a lot of 60 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: sad things happen to me. But this is something that 61 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: I don't think I was ever prepared for. And grief 62 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: is very tricky. It ebbs and it flows, and anyone 63 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: who's ever dealt with that knows that you can have 64 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: a good day and a really bad a good day 65 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: and a really bad day, a good moment, and a 66 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: really bad moment, and I have had so many wonderful 67 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: people and my community really hold me during this time. 68 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: Magic Johnson called me because he met her once because 69 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: he knew that she was a huge Laker fan, and 70 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: he just wanted to check on me and make sure 71 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: that I was okay. And I was grateful because one 72 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: of the best moments in my life that I was 73 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: able ever to provide for her was her meeting Magic Johnson. 74 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: I've had people call me, I've had people send me things. 75 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: It's so wonderful. And the wonderful part of the grief 76 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: is that you realize that you have a beautiful community. 77 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: You realize, without even trying to create a community, you 78 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: have a community of people who understand and have incredible 79 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: empathy and compassion for you. And what I mean by that, 80 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: I mean my producer of the podcast who's reached out 81 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: to me a few times, right and just checking on 82 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: me and gently making sure I'm okay, or it could 83 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: be you know, the doorman in my building, or whatever 84 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: it could be. There is something that I am realizing 85 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: about the community you create without even realizing you create it. 86 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: And if I've given an ounce of the compassion that 87 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: has been given to me, then I've done my job 88 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: and I'm super super grateful. And so it got me 89 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: to thinking. Shout out to Jack Quiza was her idea. 90 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: It got me to thinking, and my producer, let's do 91 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: something on grief. How athletes are able to compartmentalize, how 92 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: high functioning people are able to compartmentalize. How this world, 93 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: how we as humans are living in today's America, and 94 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: we are compartmentalizing because it's not normal what we're dealing with. 95 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: People. 96 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: If we just talk about the world that we live 97 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: in and the things that we see on our timeline 98 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: versus how we are functioning day in and day out, 99 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: none of this is normal and we should normalize it. 100 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: And every now and again, a moment will happen, and 101 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: a moment will come to you as it has come 102 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: to me with the loss of my dear, dear grandmother, 103 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: where I am stuck. I'm frozen with my thoughts and 104 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: my emotions, and I look around and I'm like, none 105 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: of this is normal. And I'm so grateful that I 106 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: am having experiences with people that allow me to say, 107 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: none of this is normal and it's okay. To feel 108 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: everything and process everything, and I'm really at the beginning 109 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: of this grief journey. But I feel my grandmother holding 110 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: my hand the whole way as she always has. I 111 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: feel her excited about a life where she can watch 112 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: over me and watch me flourish and do things that 113 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: she's always wanted for me. I mean, it feels good 114 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: to think and to really know that you have an 115 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: angel on your side. Until on today's podcast, I have 116 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: the opportunity to speak with a doctor, a therapist who 117 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: explains grief, what it looks like, how it may feel 118 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: in different people, how it looks differently for different people, 119 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: how we process grief. But her specialty is for high 120 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: functioning people, ambitious people who want wellness, because that's the balance, 121 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: because I could continue on in my life and do 122 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: TV and do my podcast and live like there's no 123 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: big deal, nothing happening. It's the same thing that I 124 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: see with certain athletes who lose loved ones and they 125 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: go out on game day and drop fifty or perhaps 126 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: they continue to play in a football game and they 127 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: outperform and get more yards than they ever had. See 128 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: it day in and day out. In my profession, I 129 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: see highly functioning people do well in tragedy, in very 130 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: tragic moments, and I always have wondered why, And today 131 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: doctor Boughton will explain it all to us. And I 132 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: appreciate her giving me the patience in pronouncing her name, 133 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: because you guys have to forgive me. You know, I 134 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: don't always get the names right, doctor Watton. I'm good 135 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: with that, right, I hope. So so sit back, relax, 136 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: enjoyed this edition of Naked Sports and allow me, as 137 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: the host of the show, just to be completely vulnerable. 138 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 1: Thank you all for being here. And may my grandmother A. 139 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: Stelle Manning, rest in peace. 140 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: My name is doctor Aquia K. Wotton. I am a 141 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: license psychotherapist and emotional wellness coach for many folks, mainly 142 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: at the intersection of ambition and emotional wellness. High achieving 143 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 2: people that are doing well in their life professionally and 144 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: want to balance emotional wellness, which means. 145 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: I must hire you after this. That's what I've decided. Okay, 146 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: so you know, first I want to talk about this 147 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: thing called grief. Probably last year, dear friend of mine 148 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: lost his mother suddenly suddenly, and he found her basically comatose. 149 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: But he said he just went into this space where 150 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: he had to save her life and ultimately he wasn't 151 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: able to. And I sent him a message and I said, 152 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: grief is a tricky lady. She ebbs and she flows, 153 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: and so the days will come where you're fine, and 154 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: then you could just be having a donut and start crying. 155 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: You don't know where it comes from, but it comes 156 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: from somewhere, I often say, and you've heard this before, 157 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: it's all the love you for someone. You just don't 158 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: know where to place it emotionally. Can you talk to 159 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: me about the definition of grief and what that means. 160 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: Grief is a amorphous kind of formless experience that we 161 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 2: all go through and we lose something that is dear 162 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: to us, whether that be a person, whether that be 163 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: an experience, It could be a location, it could be 164 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: an identity. But grief is really the body and BrainsWay 165 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 2: of dealing with the absence of the love and bond 166 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: that we've just had. 167 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: Grief is the body's way and the mind's way of 168 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: dealing with the absence of the love that we have. 169 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: So how do we deal with that with grief? How 170 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: does it appear? How does it show up? 171 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 2: It shows up in different ways for different people, right, 172 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: and sometimes depending on what it is that you done 173 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: to metabolize emotion throughout your lifetime, grief is really going 174 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 2: to kind of fall in line with that. There are 175 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 2: many people that don't really take a lot of time 176 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 2: to metabolize their emotion. They don't feel their feelings, and 177 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: so when grief arrives, it kind of falls in line 178 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: with that. We can have moments where we are working 179 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: our tails off, right, we cannot feel anything for years 180 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 2: and years, sometimes months, and then all of a sudden, 181 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: it hits us like a brick, right, and we might 182 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: physically feel it. Somatically, we might have moments of depression 183 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 2: and deep, deep grief in that way. It's really hard 184 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: to say exactly how grief will hit your life, but 185 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: we do know that when it does, it's important to 186 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: take your time with it right, allowing yourself, allowing your body, 187 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: allowing your brain to recalibrate to this new reality of distance, 188 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 2: of absence of not having the thing, the person, the 189 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 2: experience that you have relied on for so long. 190 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: When I think about America, I do feel like there 191 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: is a grief that we have been dealing with in 192 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: this country collectively because of where we are, maybe not 193 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: just the pandemic, but there's always been this thing to 194 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: in my spirit about the pandemic we have lost. We 195 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: lost millions of people in the pandemic, and it almost 196 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: felt like it was a blanket of an eye and 197 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: we forgot. Living in New York, you would see these 198 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: refrigerated trucks with bodies piled high because there was nowhere 199 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,719 Speaker 1: you couldn't bury the body, and loved ones couldn't put 200 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: their loved ones to rest appropriately, or the way in 201 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: which they felt. A good friend of mine her mother 202 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: was sick in the hospital and she couldn't see her, 203 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: and she was like, let me just take her home 204 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: and care for her as she prepares for her last 205 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: days in the home. You know, there are so many 206 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: different ways to describe what we were experiencing fast forward 207 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: to where we are today. I wonder if you have 208 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: thought about and or talked about the grief that we're 209 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: experiencing collectively as a society, not black or white, but 210 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: just as a whole a human being. 211 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely thought about it a lot. I think most 212 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 2: of us have thought about it because we had to. 213 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 2: We were home, we couldn't work the way that we 214 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 2: used to. We couldn't socialize in the way that we 215 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: used to, we could not live in the way that 216 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: we used to. And so grief is not only individual, 217 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 2: but it is collective. We can feel the loss of 218 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 2: our norms, of our comfort zones, even our identity as 219 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 2: a nation shifted and changed the way that we thought 220 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 2: about mental health and emotional health. Whereas it may have 221 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: been a side thing, it became central focus. Everything that 222 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 2: is essential in your life comes to the full front 223 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: when grief is on the scene. 224 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: So, no, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. 225 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: So what would you describe that as that time? How 226 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: would you describe the pandemic. I don't even think that 227 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: we took time, or maybe I didn't take time, but 228 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: I don't think people took time to process. We were 229 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: so consumed with trying to get out of the house 230 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: and leave and do more. 231 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we're in survival mode. We were in. It is 232 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: a collective pause, a freeze that happened internationally. There was 233 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 2: never a time in our lifetime where the entire world stopped. 234 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: Everything that we knew, everything that we knew the world 235 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: to be, our nation to be, was frozen, and so 236 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: it was a collective traumatic experience. It was a collective pause, 237 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: and the cascading impact of that moving forward is our nation, 238 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 2: our identity as a globe, global world and economy is 239 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 2: really still trying to grapple with what happened? Could it 240 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: happen again? Right? And so it is a really really 241 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 2: tough thing to quantify. I think we're still trying to 242 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: find language for where we are as a nation, but 243 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,479 Speaker 2: I do know that it was a collective traumatic experience 244 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 2: followed by a collective grief experience. 245 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: What do you mean when you say we are trying 246 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: to find language for where we are as a nation? 247 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: I agree with that, but I don't have the language. 248 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: What do you mean? 249 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think we're trying to find our core, right, 250 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 2: which is a part of a traumatic experience, Right. It 251 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: scrambles everything that we know that we find comfort in, 252 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: that we can reliably predict day to day. I think 253 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: that we have been trying to get that right. We 254 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 2: were working out of the home, most of us for 255 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: much of our careers and then went home, Right, We're 256 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: still trying to find what does work look like? Are 257 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 2: we hybrid? Are we going back? 258 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: Are no? 259 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: Maybe? We should stay home. Are we more productive as 260 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: a society? Right? We're still trying to name that, understand 261 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: that right. Socially, are we people that get together in 262 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: the way that we used to or is that actually 263 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: not a good idea anymore? Are we socially awkward? Are 264 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: we not quite sure who is a friend and who's 265 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: not a friend? How do we make a friend? Do 266 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: people come over our house? Do we want them to 267 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: meet us outside? We don't know just yet, And so 268 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: everything in our life we are renaming and finding language. 269 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: For you just described my whole existence since the pandemic? 270 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: Am I socially awkward? I feel like I'm looking for 271 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: that definition, but I'm not. And I'm social, but I'm 272 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: also awkward. And I don't know how to interact all 273 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: of these things. And I don't know because quite frankly, 274 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: I can't remember if there was a Is it a 275 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: different behavior for me? Was there a different behavior? And 276 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: I hear this question often and I have always wondered, 277 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: because it's as described, grief is something that you have 278 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: to experience and we process individually. But in the world 279 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: that we live in today, there seems to be when 280 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: you described this earlier or called it survival mode. Survival 281 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 1: mode can look like what in different people and different experiences. 282 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 2: I am asking, right, fight, flight, freeze, right, we can 283 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 2: be in those ways of coping. So the ways that 284 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 2: we may respond to being in survival, we might freeze. 285 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: That means the things that we're used to, we're not 286 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 2: quite able to concentrate, We're not quite able to find 287 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 2: words through the things that we're going through. We may 288 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 2: not be able to work in the way or at 289 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: the highest demand, Like with my clients as we used 290 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: to why can't I get out the bed? Why can't 291 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: I just you know, figure out what I want to 292 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: do today, what's going to happen this fall? I can't 293 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: plan it? And so we might actually freeze when we're 294 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 2: in survival mode. Some people don't. They take flight. They 295 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: work their tails off, right, they overwork, they can't relax, 296 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 2: they can't sleep right, and so they are really kind 297 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: of an overdrive as a response to being in survival right. 298 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,959 Speaker 2: And so there are many ways that it may manifest. 299 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: But at the heart of it, we're not present. We're 300 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 2: not present in our body, we're not present in our mind, 301 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: and we are just really in this defense mechanism that's 302 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: beautiful the body has for us to survive. But at 303 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: the same time, we're not meant to stay in survival 304 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 2: too long, right. It is there's all of these effects. 305 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: We know that now. It impacts our body when we're 306 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 2: in quarters all too long. Right, It's connected to a 307 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 2: lot of diseases and our immune system going down, and 308 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: so survival mode again gets us through, it manifests in 309 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 2: many ways, but it's not meant to be here with 310 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 2: us too long. 311 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: And what examples? Can you look around the country and 312 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: see everyone in survival mode, whether it be politicians, whether 313 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: it be your neighbors, whether it be you know what 314 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: happened just recently there's a horrible school shooting in Minneapolis, 315 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: and I'm like, do we not draw the line? And 316 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: kids praying where do we draw the line? When do 317 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: we say enough is enough? And we find ourselves reading 318 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: and seeing these experiences and we're inundated, especially if it's online, 319 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,479 Speaker 1: We're inundated with what appears to be the bad of 320 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: the world. How does that manifest in survival mode for 321 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: people who are trying to process how this country is 322 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: is existing. 323 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: I find that a lot of people are moving to 324 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 2: disassociating and distracting. It is not natural to look through 325 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,239 Speaker 2: your timeline and see people dancing and laughing and then 326 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: see baby starving and people that are you know, fleeing 327 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 2: and shooting, and then you know something about lipstick and 328 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 2: that It's just very difficult for our consciousness to metabolize 329 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 2: all of these things, and so what we might find 330 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: ourselves doing is distracting, not really sitting with our emotion, 331 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 2: not sitting with what does this mean to me? What 332 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: do I think about it? And how do I want 333 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: to respond right, Or we're disassociating, meaning I'm not even 334 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: going to think about it. I can't watch it, I 335 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 2: can't talk about it, I'm going to start working, I'm 336 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 2: going to do something else completely. I literally can not 337 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 2: do it. And so if there is someone that is 338 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: struggling with that, it is natural for us not to 339 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: be inundated with all of these stories and information and 340 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 2: fears and risks all at the same time. Our brains 341 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: actually cannot digest it right, and so we have to 342 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 2: take breaks. That's why I am a big believer in 343 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: the digital detox and taking moments away from it just 344 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 2: to be able to metabolize and process. Where are you? 345 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: What is happening right? Are you distracting? Are you disassociating? 346 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: Your voice feels like a comforter, a pillow, a blanket. 347 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: It feels very calming, and so I am grateful that 348 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: you exist because it can help. I often wonder, and 349 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: this is as experienced and sharing with you the grief 350 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: that I have been dealing with. I have often wondered 351 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: how people can get up and go, and especially in 352 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: my world of sports, most recently, I'll use the example 353 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: of Steph Curry. He lost his grandmother and obviously the 354 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: game is not here and he's not playing in a 355 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: day to day game. But I've seen athletes go through 356 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: so much and deal with the loss of a child, 357 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: or a loss of a wife, of a horrible accent, 358 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: or a best friend or a mother, and they get 359 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: up and they perform at the best of their ability 360 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 1: on game day. And I think you talked about this 361 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: a moment ago. Is that considered a survival distraction and 362 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: showing up in a way where you overwork yourself? What 363 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: would you call that compartmentalization? 364 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: Well, it's quite interesting and high achievers, right, So that's 365 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: kind of my population, right, people that are quite ambitious 366 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 2: and they have achieved a lot in life, whether that 367 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 2: is professional sports and entertainment and business. They have excelled 368 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 2: in their life because of their ability to compartmentalize right. 369 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: If we think about it, if you have a surgeon 370 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 2: in your life that is working on your family member, 371 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 2: you want them to have a healthy level of compartmentalization 372 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 2: that they can go into a zone to be able 373 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,239 Speaker 2: to do something that if they were fully present with it, 374 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 2: they may not be able to do right. Same thing 375 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 2: with an athlete or someone that's doing professional sports, there 376 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: is an elite performance mode and it has really helped 377 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: that person throughout their lifetime and it comes into full 378 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: focus in times of tragedy. We see performance swings during grief, 379 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 2: but we also see this high level of compartmentalization the 380 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 2: ability to do that to have what we can exceptional 381 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 2: play right, and oftentimes it's centered in the psychology that 382 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: most of the folks that are working at this level 383 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 2: have meaning and purpose connected to family. They have meaning 384 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: and purpose connected to tribe, to culture, to a lot 385 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 2: of things that have helped them develop and so when 386 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 2: they lose a person, you will see them move into 387 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 2: this exceptional play to be able to meet the moment 388 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,959 Speaker 2: with that sense of meaning and purpose for that person, 389 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: they drop fifty points and it's like, what does that mean? 390 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 2: But really it was always for them all along, whether 391 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 2: that be for the tribe, whether that be for the person, 392 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: whether that be for the idea of family right to 393 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,719 Speaker 2: move the tribe forward, to do what something had someone 394 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 2: or do something that someone else has never been able 395 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 2: to do right. And so in these moments of tragedy 396 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 2: we see the compartmentalization that's always been there, but that 397 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 2: deep sense of purpose and meaning meeting the moment for 398 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: that exceptional play. 399 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: Is there anything about that that's dysfunctional and or hurtful 400 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: as you if you don't, if you only compartmentalize and 401 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: not process correct right. 402 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: And so that's why you know, often people work with 403 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: me on being able to balance emotional wellness right because 404 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: this idea that there's a lot of technical pieces to it, 405 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 2: but it's been with that person for a long time 406 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 2: and that's why they're exceptional. But now in their adult life, 407 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 2: hopefully it is one that they begin to infuse with 408 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: emotional wellness. How do I actually connect with a partner, 409 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,959 Speaker 2: whether I'm working with someone that is off you know, 410 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 2: season and having trouble with their partner, right, and being 411 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: able to be a family person or a person that's 412 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: just retired and I don't know who I am, I 413 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 2: don't know my identity, what do I do now? What's 414 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 2: my next move? Right? And so being able to balance 415 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 2: emotional wellness is the healthiest we can be as well 416 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 2: as there are a sect of people that their work 417 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 2: just demands a different layer. 418 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: Of Oh, this is so good. So when you find 419 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: yourself in these spaces, and I think a little bit 420 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: about what I wanted to do today is let people 421 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: know because I've been getting this conversation for so long, 422 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: but I haven't been tapped in enough to feel that emotion. 423 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: When my friend loses his mom and he finds her 424 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: and he has to try to resuscitate her and bring 425 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: it back to life. And my other good girlfriend loses 426 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: her her mother and she has to be the one 427 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: to take care of her as she's dying during the 428 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: pandemic because she did want her to be in the 429 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: hospital byerl another I'm just thinking about all of these 430 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: forms of grief that people experience but continue to get 431 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: back up and go to work. Yes, it makes them 432 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: feel as if they need to be high achiever. But 433 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: is it because of of the world that we live 434 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: in today that shows you on your phone that everybody's 435 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: getting it, that everyone's going out and hustling and doing 436 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: and winning and winning no matter what at all costs. 437 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: Is there a part of that that is just not true? 438 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: Like where does the And the question might be as 439 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: I search for it, when are people okay to feel? 440 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: When does that movement become popular or it's okay to 441 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: pause and feel? Where does that happen? When does that happen? 442 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: Rather, it happens with us, hopefully with us And when 443 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: we sell on the alarm, when we you know, put 444 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 2: down the cape, when we break the seale, when we say, 445 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 2: you know what, I'm going to talk about the grief 446 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 2: I'm going through with my family. I'm going to talk 447 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: about the fact that I had a hard time getting 448 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: back to work this month. Right, I'm going to talk 449 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: about it. I'm going to also share that with my 450 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 2: friends in small circles. 451 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: Right. 452 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 2: It takes us each individually becoming brave to be vulnerable. Right, 453 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 2: it also takes us collectively that have platforms to be 454 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 2: able to talk about our own personal experience and the 455 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: utility of emotion. Oftentimes we don't think about the utility 456 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 2: of emotion. There are so many things that being able 457 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: to feel your feelings does for us and with us 458 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: that is powerful and productive if we're aware of it. 459 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: And so I hope we're in that season right now. 460 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 2: I hope we are. You know, as mental health and 461 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,239 Speaker 2: emotional health has taken the center stage, I'm hoping that 462 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: we are in a space where, you know, people that 463 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 2: especially people in sports, that are taking the you know, 464 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 2: taking the arm up. I'm in a Brandon Marshall, I'm 465 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 2: thinking of even in entertainment, Charlotte Mayne, like, we are 466 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 2: here talking about humanity, right, your humanity first, right, and 467 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 2: that's really where we start. 468 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: What does the utility of emotion mean? 469 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, the utility So oftentimes people that come to me 470 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 2: that say, I really feel like I don't know myself, 471 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: or they may say I don't know what direction to 472 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 2: go next, or how do I know if this is 473 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 2: the right person for me, or I don't know if 474 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: I should take this job. Oftentimes, our emotionality is that 475 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 2: internal guiding system that allows us to know what it 476 00:29:54,960 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 2: is that intuitively we need where to go what's important 477 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 2: to us and who we are. When we sit in 478 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 2: the center of our emotion, we find ourselves. We meet ourselves, 479 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 2: and so we know in the middle of that date 480 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 2: when we're I don't feel settled right, or I feel 481 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 2: anxious around this person, or I don't know, I feel 482 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 2: down and low when I might leave that circle of 483 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 2: friends right, or there's something about this job that I 484 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 2: can't I can't sleep. We're dild dialed into that navigation 485 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 2: then internal. That's why we say it's our gut feeling right. 486 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:49,959 Speaker 2: It's that intuitive, intuitive sense of power and wisdom that 487 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 2: we can follow to guide us in our life. 488 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: Everything you say makes so much sense, So I'll only 489 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: want to make sure that our listeners can understand and 490 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: it by example. So I will talk about doing CNN right. 491 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: So when I finish this podcast, I will prep to 492 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: do CNN tonight. And I have made deliberate choices on 493 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: when I go on and who I will go on 494 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: with because my spirit does not feel right. I don't 495 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: want the hour of TV time if I'm up all 496 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: night thinking about my interactions and what I said or 497 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: who I interacted with, or or whatever it may be. 498 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: Like this doesn't feel right. This doesn't feel like what 499 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: I'm doing. I mean, and I've been tussling with this 500 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: in a real way. So I've been allowing myself and 501 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: with the help of the network, figure out what it 502 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: looks like for me like and I think there's some 503 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: honesty with where we are in the world today. You know, 504 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: you can't discuss anything about pops without some I'm putting 505 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: you on the left or the right. But it doesn't 506 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: calm my nervous system. In fact, it does the absolute opposite. 507 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: And it also does that for friends of mine. I've 508 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: heard them say, oh, no, I'm just so uncomfortable before 509 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: I go on. But another friend reminded me that the 510 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: truth still matters, and so we still have to with 511 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: our platform us high achievers or not even high achievers. 512 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: But perhaps you are remember that truth still matters. Yeah, 513 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: But then I get this conversation from people telling me, yeah, 514 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: but not right now. Are you suggesting that if someone 515 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: is struggling internally with the do or that don't of 516 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: a life circumstance, work, friendship, love relationships work again, do 517 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: we trust this? And you're saying that our internal our 518 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: internal guide is usually the right is the right space 519 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: to listen to. Or could it be confusing because sometimes 520 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: I find it confusing. 521 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is confusing at first, right, and maybe even 522 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 2: by design it's confusing because it requires you to lean in, 523 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 2: it requires you to spend some time with it. It's 524 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 2: just a queue. It's your body telling you something's up. 525 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 2: Then may be down right, let me sit down, let 526 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 2: me spend some time there, Let me allow it to 527 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 2: wash over my body and just fully be in it 528 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 2: and gain the wisdom on the other side of that arc. 529 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: Right. 530 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 2: Oftentimes people don't get the wisdom because they don't sit 531 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 2: through the arc of it. We got to sit through 532 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 2: the arc of the pain in order to let it 533 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 2: teach you something on the other side of it, right. 534 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 2: And so yes, if you're struggling, something is up, sit 535 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 2: with it, get clear about it, talk to people about it, 536 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 2: right so that you can recognize, Oh, are is this 537 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 2: the nerve and you know, the system that comes together 538 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 2: before I do something great? Is this resilience kind of 539 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 2: mounting up right? Or is this something else? This is 540 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 2: the disturbance? Right, This is a wrestling, This is a 541 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 2: You are not in line with the divine order. You 542 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 2: are not in line with where you should be right 543 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 2: and so why we listen to that is because that 544 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 2: is where we find our peace. That's where everyone finds 545 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 2: our peace. 546 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: Listening gosh, that requires us to be so patient and 547 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: not distracted by the world around us, and that, to me, 548 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: in itself is a tall order in a world that 549 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: makes you feel like you have to constantly perform. You 550 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: mentioned Brandon Marshall, and I think of that, and I've 551 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: interviewed him a few times and he said this obviously, 552 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, he's very open about his his his struggles 553 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: with mental health. Charloe Mane two, we've talked about it 554 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: as well. I think that what I'm curious about and 555 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: high performance people athletes as well. There is this what 556 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: you're saying, listen to what we should be doing, but 557 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: there's also still the requirement of I have to perform. 558 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: There's I don't know where the balance is in that 559 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: for them and or myself. Where's the balance of listening 560 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: and sitting with it? And how do you listen and 561 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: sit with it when you're worried about performing, or when 562 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: you know that you have to perform, or there is 563 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: something innate in you that says we got to perform. 564 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 2: That's why you know, doing the work to be able 565 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 2: to have an integration of the two is really where 566 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 2: you get into like a power space, right. And so 567 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 2: oftentimes when I'm working with folks right, if they're in season, right, 568 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 2: there's a different way of doing right. And so we're 569 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 2: kind of microdocing these moments if you were right, And 570 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 2: so it could be after aim, it could be on 571 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 2: a couple of days where you have off, where it 572 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 2: could be in a couple therapy session, and we kind 573 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 2: of make sure it works that way so you're not hanging. 574 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 2: It's not hanging over you for the next forty eight hours. 575 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 2: But again we're taking time, We're taking those microdosing moments 576 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 2: of meditation. Journaling morning pages is really something I really 577 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 2: really like three pages in the morning, just allowing your 578 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 2: brain to go, don't you know, edit it, just let 579 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 2: it go, right, because really what it comes it comes 580 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,359 Speaker 2: to is can I let the stuff out? We are 581 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 2: so used to suppressing and repressing what is happening within us, 582 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 2: not feeling the feelings, not actually going through what it 583 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 2: is that we're thinking in our mind and writing it 584 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 2: down or expressing it right, And so taking those small 585 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 2: moments to do that is really important. Right. Also being 586 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 2: able to give yourself breaks from the performance you're going 587 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 2: to perform. It's innate, that's where that's why you are 588 00:36:59,360 --> 00:36:59,879 Speaker 2: where you are. 589 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: Let's go, yeah, it'll come, It'll have fact that. 590 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 2: Okay, that's gonna come. Right. But we also we don't 591 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 2: want to have performance crash, right, and that also happens 592 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 2: right when you, you know, suppress your emotion or bypass what's 593 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 2: happening within, so microdosing, having those moments where you actually 594 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 2: can feel talk it out, express it, get it out 595 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 2: of your body, let it metabolize through you, and then 596 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 2: you get locked into that zone. That zone is empowered 597 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 2: by your clarity. It's empowered by the moments where you 598 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 2: can be in peace because you're not in a wrestling 599 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 2: or turmoil. 600 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: Internally, when I talk to athletes a special, well women too. 601 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna just give it mail male, but women too. 602 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: So when we have these these topics where we see 603 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: incredible pain, I think of the most most obvious one 604 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: where I think I saw people really embrace what they 605 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: felt was when Kobe Bryant passed away and there was 606 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: this collective mourning because it was felt so deeply across 607 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: the globe. There was there was no shame associated with 608 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: crying or saying that you were sad. There was no stigma. Everyone. 609 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: These athletes didn't feel like they have to be gladiators. 610 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: And I and I and I even reference athletes, but 611 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: humans in general. What you just described are people feeling 612 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: like they have to push through and be gladiators. And 613 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: when you don't, when you realize that you don't have 614 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: to do that, there's this there's this relaxation that overcomes 615 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: your body. How would you describe that moment? Because I 616 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: would love if we could have more moments like that 617 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 1: where we could just honestly get everything that is off 618 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: our chests and into the world and share it so 619 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: that we know we're not alone. 620 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 2: I don't know why. They just reminded me. Have you 621 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,320 Speaker 2: seen these videos online where they have either there's like 622 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 2: a man that's partner is filming them before they see them, 623 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 2: and then after like, oh I haven't seen those, No 624 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 2: make goodness. So it's usually these videos of you know, 625 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 2: this man, super masculine guy, you know, at an airport 626 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 2: and kind of like walking through the space and then 627 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 2: as soon as they see their girl they're like, ah, 628 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 2: they're space meaner changes. We need sacred spaces, Karen. We 629 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 2: need sacred spaces where we can fully be ourselves, where 630 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 2: we can unwind, where you don't have to be on. 631 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 2: We don't have to be anyone, and most importantly, we 632 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 2: don't have to be the person that we're known publicly. 633 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 2: One of the things I think that is the most 634 00:39:54,160 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 2: powerful essences of working with people that have public lives 635 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 2: is their ability to not be that person. In session M, 636 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 2: that you can kind of curl back up into just 637 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 2: that childhood version of yourself, that that version of you 638 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 2: that doesn't have to be on, that doesn't have to 639 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 2: be known for any single thing except for just who 640 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,919 Speaker 2: you are. And so that is how we heal. We're 641 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,320 Speaker 2: hurt in relationship, and we heal in relationship. 642 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: And say that again, Wait, say that again. 643 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,399 Speaker 2: We hurt in relationship, Yeah, and we heal in relationship. 644 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 2: One of the most foundational parts of our psychology right 645 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,399 Speaker 2: most of the things that are happening to us right 646 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 2: now are happening with us originated really early in our 647 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 2: life in relationship M. 648 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 1: And so the healing in the relationship is finding community 649 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: and allowing us to be free. And that is whether 650 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: it could be in the locker room, it could be 651 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: in the boardroom, it could be with your friends, in 652 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: a meeting room, whatever the space is. Oh wow, that's 653 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 1: so powerful. 654 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 2: A lot of people feel like they have to be 655 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 2: taught that. 656 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:15,839 Speaker 1: What do you want? 657 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 2: How do I teach me how to relax, teach me 658 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,359 Speaker 2: how to achieve the sense of balance and peace. It's 659 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 2: not something that has to be taught. Your body is 660 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 2: naturally inclined to it. We have to unlearn the ways 661 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 2: that we stop it from healing, that we stop it 662 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 2: from feeling. It's the resistance that is the issue. It's 663 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 2: not our body's capacity to heal or relax or recover, right, 664 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 2: And so when you get in the space, the body 665 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 2: will know what to do. 666 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: Why does the body resist it so much? Why does 667 00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: the body and mind resist that? 668 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 2: Because of pain, because of our history, because of trauma, 669 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 2: Because there is also a lot of muscle memory and 670 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 2: sensory memory in the body right where we may have 671 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 2: been unsafe in relationship with someone. And so now we 672 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 2: get into what feels like potentially a safe space, but 673 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 2: we block it. We're not sure if it's going to 674 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 2: be safe. Maybe it's going to be exactly like that 675 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 2: last time, right? Or I really want to be myself, 676 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 2: but I'm not sure how people are going to feel 677 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 2: about me as this person, this known person doing this 678 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 2: thing that I really want to do. Right, Maybe I 679 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 2: want to sing, maybe I want to do art, But 680 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 2: what are they going to think about me? And so 681 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 2: we block it? What is naturally occurring in you will 682 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 2: manifest if we don't block it. 683 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: Wow, well I didn't know that. So the unlearning is 684 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: the less here. The unlearning of are of probably the 685 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: instinct of not wanting to feel the pain and or 686 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. We just have that at 687 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 1: the ready, as opposed to instinctually allowing and surrendering and 688 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: letting it happen absolutely so intense. We move into a 689 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: space like as this season comes along, I've noticed that, 690 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 1: and this is something that I've been talking about with 691 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 1: some of the ladies of the WNBA. They have made 692 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 1: a case and I can relate to that because it's 693 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: not even so much that it's sports, but they have 694 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: made a case that they are being described with more 695 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: adjectives that lean to their emotions as opposed to it 696 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,760 Speaker 1: being an athletic instinct. She's being emotional on the court. 697 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: I went to the you know last night, we they 698 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: you know, by the time this heirs, everyone has seen 699 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: what happened with Taylor Townsend and I'll stink up. And 700 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: so we were having this conversation about these two women 701 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 1: and one woman being emotional because she didn't handle losing 702 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,320 Speaker 1: well and the other woman being you know, defensive and 703 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: being like, oh, you're attacking me. Now I've noticed with 704 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,399 Speaker 1: male athletes is that really wouldn't have been It would 705 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,359 Speaker 1: not have made that much of a rise because men, 706 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 1: it's okay for men to do that, but when women 707 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: do that, it's a big deal. I wonder why athletes, 708 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,399 Speaker 1: especially men versus women, Why why do we separate the two? 709 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: Why can't we just have And I've said this on 710 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: so many, so many in so many stories and ways. 711 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:39,480 Speaker 1: Why do we associate women being athletes with their gender 712 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 1: when they have these moments not as much as we 713 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: do with men. 714 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 2: I think it parallels our culture, right, our society right. 715 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 2: I think Serena talked about this some time ago, about 716 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 2: the idea of being hysterical, that this happens in our 717 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 2: everyday life, it happens in the boardroom, It happened you 718 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 2: know at home, right, it happens with your family. And 719 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,640 Speaker 2: so I think it really just mirrors our mirrors our 720 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 2: society and our perceptions of women. 721 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:11,319 Speaker 1: Right. 722 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 2: Our perceptions of women are really connected to our emotional selves, right, 723 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 2: and there are there's a lot of work that needs 724 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 2: to be done and how we see women, how we 725 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 2: acknowledge the power, the strength, the resilience, the productivity, all 726 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 2: of the things that also are centered within the women, right, 727 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 2: And we'll be able to do that. As we talk 728 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 2: about sports, right, it's still exceptionalism in a way, right, 729 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 2: that female athlete meaning it's it's out of the norm 730 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,319 Speaker 2: or it's something right, it's something I have to underline. 731 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 2: So you know that there's a. 732 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: Male athlete as opposed to athlete. 733 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And some of our emotional selves are 734 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,359 Speaker 2: powerful and important too, right, they are agree, right, Our 735 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,799 Speaker 2: full selves are important, just like the emotional selves of 736 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 2: male athletes are important. And so there needs to be 737 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 2: work to create a holistic way of seeing humans in 738 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,719 Speaker 2: general that will hopefully be integrated in the way that 739 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 2: we do sport, in the way that we are elite, 740 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 2: in the ways that we're competing. We're still human doing. 741 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: That, how do you And by way of background, and 742 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: this is what I'm really curious about, and we'll rap soon, 743 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 1: but tell me your background. How do you find yourself 744 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: at this intersection of emotional wellness and ambition? 745 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 2: Yeah? I know it, right. I think growing up as 746 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 2: a first generation American, right, a Gandian or you are 747 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 2: really really encouraged to be your best less and so 748 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 2: it's something that I think personally I get, I understand 749 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 2: as well as in the work that I've done for years, 750 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,719 Speaker 2: seventeen years, I think at this point the majority of 751 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 2: people that come to me are just in this lifestyle, right, 752 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 2: And so I've heard hours and hours and you know, 753 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 2: had hundreds of clients just telling me their stories, their experiences, 754 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 2: and oftentimes I found that high achieving folks are wrestling 755 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 2: with the balance of ambition and emotional wellness, and so 756 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 2: it was a natural flow. I think I always ask God, 757 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,319 Speaker 2: what was this? Why do I have these folks in 758 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,320 Speaker 2: my life? But I feel like it's by design. And 759 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 2: I think also the work that I've done with athletes 760 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 2: as well as in entertainment has been uniquely special to 761 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,720 Speaker 2: me because of the ways that mental health and emotional 762 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,879 Speaker 2: ways has started to take center stage and people are 763 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 2: more able to talk about it in the public center. 764 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,239 Speaker 2: And it really does change the way that we see ourselves. 765 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 2: And if I can have any hand in being able 766 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 2: to change the way that we see each other, we 767 00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,839 Speaker 2: see humanity, we soften towards each other, the ways that 768 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 2: we actually enrich our experience on Earth. I feel like 769 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 2: that's what I'm here for. 770 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 1: I love that so much, Doctor Wotton Boughton, perfect. 771 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 2: You're honorary good being. 772 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 1: Boz Ofma says that to me, not fully but almost almost. 773 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being so so willing to 774 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 1: me so early. I had to have to rechange my 775 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,839 Speaker 1: whole schedule, That's why it was so quick, and I 776 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 1: and I apologize for that, but thank you so much 777 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,160 Speaker 1: for this. So we really really really needed this conversation. 778 00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,839 Speaker 2: I know I did, absolutely, And I want to thank 779 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 2: you for kind of entering into this space even while 780 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 2: you're going through It's not easy. It's not easy to 781 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:19,360 Speaker 2: be vulnerable to show yourself in service of other people, 782 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,040 Speaker 2: and so thank you for your ministry, for your platform, 783 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,919 Speaker 2: for your voice, and also thank you for your pain. 784 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:27,800 Speaker 2: Pain Pain. 785 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 1: Naked Sports written and executive produced by me Carrie Champion, 786 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 1: produced by Jacquise Thomas, sound design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. 787 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,120 Speaker 1: Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast 788 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,319 Speaker 1: network in iHeartMedia