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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told you a protection of I Heart Radio's house

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Speaker 1: Deft Works. Today we have another interview conversation about women

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Speaker 1: in puppetry sometimes scheduling, it's just a crazy thing. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to manage. And as I said in one of

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Speaker 1: our classics, I've recently been out of town for several

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Speaker 1: days for peanut conference, which I want a peanut butter. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I have so much peanut butter. Is this peanut butter?

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Speaker 1: It's at my home. But also I'm about to leave

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Speaker 1: for another chip because I'm going to Disney World again

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Speaker 1: and I don't. I'm a little bitter about it in

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Speaker 1: the most first world problem kind of way because the

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Speaker 1: ride I wanted to ride it's not even open. But

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Speaker 1: your favorite ride will be open. My favorite ride will

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Speaker 1: be up. Better be if it's not open, then I'm

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Speaker 1: coming for you, Samantha, because you put a curse on

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Speaker 1: it des by saying that that's enough. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I am your number one what is it? Supporter when

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Speaker 1: it comes to this ride, and you know it, that's true.

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Speaker 1: You are. You really helped facilitate me writing that ride.

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Speaker 1: So I'm forever grateful for that, But we did have

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Speaker 1: someone else that we wanted to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: women in puppetry and UH for these episodes. I UM,

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Speaker 1: I read all kinds of papers about how women in

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Speaker 1: some countries like um, Turkey and in South Africa are

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Speaker 1: using puppets UH to touch on issues that they might

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Speaker 1: not be able to touch on. Are are that are

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Speaker 1: seen as socially unacceptable when it comes to polite conversation,

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Speaker 1: shall we say? Um and as as I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about the history of of puppets and things like um

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Speaker 1: Punch and Judy, which is from the sixteenth century, but

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Speaker 1: I also remembered Lamb Shop. I'm just playing along. I

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Speaker 1: totally forgot about Lamb Shop. Sherry Lewis first appeared in

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Speaker 1: ninety six. Well, Mr Rogers obviously he had his whole

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Speaker 1: village he did, you know. I feel like I said

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Speaker 1: this in an episode before, but I didn't know anything

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Speaker 1: about Mr Rogers until college. And when I learned about him,

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Speaker 1: I got like personally moved. Hey, he's one of the

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Speaker 1: good ones. I hope so. I think so he's one

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Speaker 1: of the good ones. I think it's been years and

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Speaker 1: years and years of just great testimony about how he's

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Speaker 1: such a great man. You know that's funny because the

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's not funny, but it reminds me of

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Speaker 1: on this peanut festival. It's not a festival conference. There

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Speaker 1: was someone who had been an extra in the new Mr.

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Speaker 1: Rogers movie and he said, you can see me in

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Speaker 1: the fight scene, and we were all like, there's a

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Speaker 1: fight scene. Mr. Apparently there's a fight scene in it. Um.

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Speaker 1: But then we got uh. We were talking before this

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Speaker 1: about Miss Picky and UM set me street. Miss Petty

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Speaker 1: appeared in nineteen seventy four. Yeah, she was voiced by

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Speaker 1: a man, right O Resently, I think, yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 1: I thought, I'm pretty sure it's performed by a man.

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Speaker 1: Let me let adult check Frank Oz nineties six, two

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Speaker 1: thousand two. Is that how that is? I didn't know

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Speaker 1: that on it. So it's always been a man, unless

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the mother babies, which Savantha is eager

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Speaker 1: to bring up the Muppet babies at every turn. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and apparently there's a reboot. I didn't know this, Jitney Slate.

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Speaker 1: As you said, I'm so behind on the news. You're

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Speaker 1: so behind on the Muppet baby news. Nephews. Yo. Oh

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Speaker 1: well Andy and Randy Pig. That's future research to be done. UM.

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Speaker 1: And as we said, if you haven't heard our part one,

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Speaker 1: you should go check that out because we sort of

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Speaker 1: asked the question about how do we define puppets because

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Speaker 1: I think for a lot of us we have a

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Speaker 1: narrow definition of what it is, but puppetry encompasses so

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Speaker 1: much more than what we traditionally think of, and it

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Speaker 1: can be shadows, objects, object puppetry, puppet animation. UM. So

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Speaker 1: that's something to keep in mind, and that it is changing.

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Speaker 1: Puppetry in Canada, in the US at least had a

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Speaker 1: resurgence in the nineties of these and then Sesame Street

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Speaker 1: was the first episode and since then there have been

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Speaker 1: a lot of There have been a lot of technological

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Speaker 1: advances and and changes, and um, women more entering the workforce.

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Speaker 1: And that's something else I read is that for a

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Speaker 1: long time, and and not not necessarily in um are

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Speaker 1: our modern times, but puppetry, when women were the ones

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Speaker 1: doing it, it was looked down upon because it was

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Speaker 1: a feminine art. And then when men were the ones

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Speaker 1: doing it, it was seen as this really powerful thing.

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Speaker 1: And that we see that play out in all kinds

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Speaker 1: of art forms. But as our interviewees seem to have indicated, UM,

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Speaker 1: the that is changing and more women are entering this

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Speaker 1: this world of puppetry. So we want to feature one

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Speaker 1: of those women doing badass things in that world in

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Speaker 1: this interview. So let's get into it. I'm Sarah free Ship.

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Speaker 1: I make puppetry my life. I guess my passion is

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Speaker 1: synonymous with my work. I have multiple groups I work

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Speaker 1: with now. Um, Public Bob is one, Nightshade Shadows Theaters another.

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Speaker 1: The Hand in the Shadow is also another. Because nobody

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Speaker 1: told me to pick one name and stick with it. Um, coolie.

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Speaker 1: I I was reading your bio on puppet Kebab the website. UM,

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Speaker 1: and you you've done quite a bit. You've toured in internationally. Um.

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Speaker 1: You went to University of Connecticut's puppetry arts program. Um,

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Speaker 1: so it seems like you're a pretty good person to

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Speaker 1: be speaking with about this conversation looking at women in puppetry.

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Speaker 1: I'm both of those things. There we go check off

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Speaker 1: the list. Yes, Um. One thing that I'm curious about

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Speaker 1: is how did you decide to go into puppetry? Um,

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Speaker 1: was there like a particular moment What kind of training

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Speaker 1: did you go to? How did you get to where

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Speaker 1: you are? I've played with dolls, so I was in

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Speaker 1: high school, no joke. I hit it really well. I

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Speaker 1: made UM stories for them, costumes and clothing for them,

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Speaker 1: and then got involved in the drama program in high school. UM.

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Speaker 1: I also played music in the band, and I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of playing the clarinet has been helpful with

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Speaker 1: doing Marion it um, most specifically being able to isolate

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Speaker 1: movement in both hands to make the two parts come

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Speaker 1: together as one. UM. But in the theater, I never

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Speaker 1: felt really comfortable on stage until we did a program

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Speaker 1: where we got to wear map and then this whole

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Speaker 1: other side and he came out, and I got kind

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Speaker 1: of lucky that my advisor at school and over you

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Speaker 1: must have known I was just that right kind of weird,

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Speaker 1: and said have you looked at all at Yukon's puppetry

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Speaker 1: arts program? And I just that was That's all I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do at that point. So I was able

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Speaker 1: to audition into the program. Was my clarinet actually, and

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Speaker 1: then spent four years of undergrad studying things you kind

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Speaker 1: of leave with like a toolbox. I guess UM a

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Speaker 1: lot of knowledge of materials and history and theories and

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Speaker 1: then um, at that point I just started finding artists,

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Speaker 1: um who I liked their work and called them up

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Speaker 1: and said can I come over? So, which is how

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Speaker 1: I ended up in Germany for the first time working

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Speaker 1: with Albert Drozer. Um. I saw a performance of him

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Speaker 1: when I was in college, and I was just absolutely

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Speaker 1: taken and drawn to his style of performing on stage

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Speaker 1: with the puppet as a partner. Um. And so I

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Speaker 1: my first real sort of professional workshop outside of school

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Speaker 1: was going to Germany and studying with him. That really

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Speaker 1: launched me. I think, UM, to do this for life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah cool. Yeah, I certainly didn't didn't get any of

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Speaker 1: that out of playing the clarinet, but I did enjoy it. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a fun I was wondering actually recently if

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Speaker 1: I got out my clarinet one it would be gross

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Speaker 1: because I haven't opened the case in years and I

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Speaker 1: should like clean it out and donate it. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I sold my traumbone a while ago. You sold your traumone.

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Speaker 1: I was a poor college student and he didn't. And

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Speaker 1: that's fair, That's totally fair. Um. I was going to

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Speaker 1: ask you about, UM, if you have any favorite techniques

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Speaker 1: or pieces or shows, which I think is kind of

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Speaker 1: a good segue from what you were just speaking about,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, like what is it that you really love

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Speaker 1: about puppetry? So let's see. UM. I feel like when

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Speaker 1: I was at Yukon, I saw this group mabou Mines

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Speaker 1: performed Peter and Andy and this um female actress did

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Speaker 1: the all the voices. She kind of was like the

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Speaker 1: conductor for the whole show, and I, upon seeing that, thought,

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Speaker 1: if this is what puppetry is, I'm totally in um.

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Speaker 1: It had like a pop up house that lit up

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Speaker 1: and had some shadows, and it was mostly dolt being

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Speaker 1: used to create a different characters or like uh mob

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Speaker 1: turned upside down to become Nana. It was just a

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Speaker 1: little outside of I guess what you would see on

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Speaker 1: mainstream TV where the characters are finished more from hedge

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Speaker 1: to even if they're not of this world, but they

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Speaker 1: have eyes and ears and mouths, it's you know. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So that was another artistic way to express a show

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Speaker 1: using puppets that I hadn't seen um. Bruce Schwartz, who

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Speaker 1: did puppets in the Double Life of Veronique, who used

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Speaker 1: to perform but I've never seen him on stage was

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Speaker 1: another thing. Um uh sort of captured me just the

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Speaker 1: amount of emotion he could get and and drama. He

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Speaker 1: kind of some of his puppets would go to the

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Speaker 1: dark side a little bit. He has a ballerine, a

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Speaker 1: dancer who hurt her leg and essentially has to transform

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Speaker 1: into this butterfly because you can just sort of bee.

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Speaker 1: At that point, her life it's over because she can't,

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Speaker 1: you know, fulfill this passion anymore. So that's somebody who

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Speaker 1: really cut my eye. And then Albert Roser, who I

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Speaker 1: worked with in Germany, who actually innovated his own style

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Speaker 1: of marrying at controller, which is the wooden part where

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Speaker 1: all the strings sing from. So instead of um creating

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Speaker 1: something very specific that you know how it will be

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Speaker 1: strong to work, you create this character by essentially like

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Speaker 1: listening to the materials and seeing what comes out of

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Speaker 1: the wood grain as you carve it. So you could

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Speaker 1: start with an idea and then you just remove it

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Speaker 1: and you allow it to be and then you string

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Speaker 1: that up specifically to how this figure ends up essentially

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Speaker 1: coming into its form. So the controllers are all different

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Speaker 1: for every single puppet. So I like that part I'm

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Speaker 1: drawn to the physics of that, UM, to the sort

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Speaker 1: of real uniqueness of that. Even in Germany his work

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Speaker 1: is considered pretty rebellious. It's not it's not a standard

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Speaker 1: European style controller at all. UM. So that, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that's probably why most gravitated towards him. And that

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Speaker 1: was my first thing out of school that I sought

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Speaker 1: to do UM was to go and study with him

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Speaker 1: and make this belly dancer Marryingett where all the strings

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Speaker 1: actually slide through different parts of the body all the

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Speaker 1: way to the to the base of the hips, and

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Speaker 1: it's literally hips, boobs and the head with two rope

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Speaker 1: arms swinging off from it. So it's you have to

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Speaker 1: rely on the audience and you're working together to fill

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Speaker 1: in the full form. So that that's the kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff that I really love. UM. That has I think

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Speaker 1: most influenced the work that I do. That's I have

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Speaker 1: so many things I want to ask about that, like

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Speaker 1: so many different directions ago and but UM, one thing

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Speaker 1: before we came in here, UM one of our colleagues

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Speaker 1: was talking about UM Sesame Street, which for a long

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Speaker 1: time has been how America That's puppets is kind of

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Speaker 1: that's what they are. They don't do this sort of

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Speaker 1: dark side thing that you were touching on. And I

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Speaker 1: do think that's starting to change, but that's been how

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Speaker 1: we've seen it for a long time. And he was

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Speaker 1: saying that he read uh something that before there was

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Speaker 1: one female puppet on Sesame Street, there were nineteen male puppets. Um.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons was that women are so

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Speaker 1: automatically sexualized, and that the way that people audiences were

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Speaker 1: interpreting the puppet bit was that she was inappropriate and

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Speaker 1: that the male body was the neutral body. Um. And

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Speaker 1: that like when people were asked afterwards after seeing female puppets,

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Speaker 1: they often said, like, to be a female puppet, you

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Speaker 1: have to have like bright lipsick, big boobs, long hair. Um.

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Speaker 1: Is there something you've seen that when you're designing a

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Speaker 1: female character or a female puppet, Maybe not specifically you,

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Speaker 1: but in the puppetry world, have you seen stuff like that?

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Speaker 1: Is there a difference when it comes to puppet design

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Speaker 1: male and female puppets. Yeah? I wondered too if some

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Speaker 1: of that's really um just here in the US, because

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Speaker 1: I in performing in Germany, they they do more what

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Speaker 1: they call figures there like the puppet rees and art,

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Speaker 1: so it's not it's not as campy or they're not

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Speaker 1: trying to go. I feel like there's not the aim

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Speaker 1: with the stereotypes, and the body is totally viewed differently.

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Speaker 1: It's a tool. And then here we can only be

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Speaker 1: naked in our showers. So so I wonder how far

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Speaker 1: that idea stretches. Um, yeah, so I see that. It

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Speaker 1: is Uh, it is interesting. There is still the fight

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Speaker 1: to make strong female characters, um that aren't getsy or

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Speaker 1: don't have a giant but we have them, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But I certainly know that when I see a program

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Speaker 1: where you realize it's a woman director and stuff, there

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Speaker 1: is something about it that you can see yourself in

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Speaker 1: that you can't when it is directed by a man.

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Speaker 1: There's something missing the the care of the I don't

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Speaker 1: know the shape. Um gosh, I'm trying to think. Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: So when you look so if you say the female character,

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Speaker 1: you mean miss Piggy's, Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, like

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Speaker 1: when you look at That's what I was saying, Samantha,

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Speaker 1: because when I think about the Muppets, there was only

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Speaker 1: one female character and that right now she was hilarious

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Speaker 1: and she was the boss. I love that. But I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to think because if you think about like Flazzy

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Speaker 1: and all of them, and then then I think there

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Speaker 1: are some gender neutral ones that would not necessarily gendered.

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Speaker 1: But I know Piggy, Miss Piggy was one. But it's

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Speaker 1: typically one female character to like twenty male perceived characters,

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Speaker 1: even though there may not be human. Yeah. That's actually

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Speaker 1: something that's come up a lot in UM like conversations

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Speaker 1: around board games is that you're more likely to have

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Speaker 1: a board game cover with animals on it than you

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Speaker 1: are with women on it. Um they play, they do

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Speaker 1: play a lot of supportive roles. I guess she's like

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Speaker 1: miss Piggy, even though she's pretty bad as she's not

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Speaker 1: the main character is Yeah. Before though, like before the

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Speaker 1: Muppet Show, Jim Henson would do these late night programs

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Speaker 1: where he was always like shooting puppets out of a cannon,

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Speaker 1: and I, well, I mean, I guess you did that

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Speaker 1: a little bit then, but I feel like there was

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Speaker 1: some definitely more dark slapstick humor stuff he did and

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Speaker 1: then I wish, I wish that would continue. Now I

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Speaker 1: feel like they rely more on conversations the characters are having,

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Speaker 1: which can get a bit bapid versus just yeah. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. They used to be so much more in love,

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Speaker 1: all of them. I felt like they had a real

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Speaker 1: family knit, you know, as there they all supported each

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Speaker 1: other in a very different way in the past than

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Speaker 1: they do now. But I'm really trying to rack my

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Speaker 1: brain for female for puppet things in the US main

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Speaker 1: dream that has female lead. I know there's one thing

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Speaker 1: because young One in Sesame Street who just they developed

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Speaker 1: her as having a family member who was addicted to

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Speaker 1: opia Trump. Yeah, and that's a female character, young girl young, right, young,

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Speaker 1: it's not a girl young. Yeah, I'm trying to remember.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I do love the old school antics of

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Speaker 1: who was that? Who are the two bantering men in

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Speaker 1: the audience up in the balcony. YEA love that we

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Speaker 1: have some more of her interview, but first we have

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Speaker 1: a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and

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Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's get back into the interview.

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Speaker 1: So you were also creator when you create puppets, and

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Speaker 1: you create different um art. As for the specific types

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Speaker 1: of genres, do you think about gender specifics or what

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Speaker 1: what is your motivations. Is it just based on the

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Speaker 1: play or the idea, or do you base a play

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Speaker 1: an idea on your creations. I guess at this point

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Speaker 1: I have a repertoire enough that I can start to

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Speaker 1: be UM some similarities or like through lines that I

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Speaker 1: do UM, which has taken me a while. So I

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Speaker 1: have a personal element I really put into every show,

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Speaker 1: whether I draw in certain stories or information about my

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Speaker 1: actual family and incorporate it into what I'm creating, or

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Speaker 1: experiences that I've had, good or bad, and I put

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Speaker 1: those sort of feelings into the the piece. UM. I

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Speaker 1: guess in thinking of strong puppet characters, I feel like

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Speaker 1: at least been performing on a strong female puppeteer. And

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Speaker 1: I certainly know that there are other female puppeteers that

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Speaker 1: are standing doing a lot of solo pieces or sometimes

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Speaker 1: as a life band. There's you know, answers they're trying

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Speaker 1: to create in the theater. But the nice thing is UM,

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Speaker 1: when audiences come that we are, we are what they

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Speaker 1: first engage with UM, and then the puppet show sort

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Speaker 1: of pours out of us. So I have UH the

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Speaker 1: story of the Snowflakes Man, and it can't be helped

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Speaker 1: that the main character is Wilson Bentley, the guy who

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Speaker 1: took the first photographs of snowflakes. But I shrink myself

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Speaker 1: down into marry net form to go and meet him.

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Speaker 1: So but I totally play a part in the whole story,

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Speaker 1: and it's on a pop up book stage, but I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to, Um, I'm a proud Vermont and it's

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Speaker 1: a story of a Vermont farmer who took these photographs. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I just try to focus more on that of

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Speaker 1: the good characteristics for being devoted to your passion or

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Speaker 1: you know, making also your hobby your life, even though

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Speaker 1: that may not be the main source of income. Just

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Speaker 1: finding pride in what you do, um, which I think

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Speaker 1: works for any gen her And then wanted to show

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Speaker 1: that my pride for my Vermont heritage. I use photographs

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Speaker 1: that my grandpa had purchased from Snowflake Bently when he

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Speaker 1: was a young boy. So it's sort of like a

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Speaker 1: love letter to my grandfather because he had passed away

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Speaker 1: and was, um the only grandparents I had left as

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Speaker 1: I graduated college and was the most like you want

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Speaker 1: to pack her bag and go to Germany, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the most encouraging person I had in

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Speaker 1: that moment where you know, my parents maybe thought I

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Speaker 1: was a bit more nut um, but there They've also

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Speaker 1: never told me that I couldn't do these things. I've

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Speaker 1: only been sort of shown that if you feel that's

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Speaker 1: the direction you want to go, and go, but you

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Speaker 1: gotta work for it, like you know, and so that

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Speaker 1: I haven't ever really stopped trying to pursue this as

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Speaker 1: a career. And then some other shows. I'm doing a

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Speaker 1: new one called Dirty Girts, which is based on something

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Speaker 1: my mom said when she was little about her neighbor.

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Speaker 1: She said, she thinks she's Queen Elizabeth, but she's Dirty

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Speaker 1: Girts to me. So it's about middle school growing pain.

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Speaker 1: So I'm trying to highlight a bit more in this

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Speaker 1: new show. These two middle school girls who just can't

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Speaker 1: seem to get along. They're very judgmental of each other,

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Speaker 1: and then trying to find sort of a moment where

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Speaker 1: they have to feel some form of empathy for each other,

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Speaker 1: and even in the end that does the workout. They decide,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're still not super friends, but at least

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Speaker 1: they know that their way of you know, or my

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Speaker 1: mom's character's way of fitting in is to not actually

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Speaker 1: fit in at all. So this work she does in school,

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Speaker 1: going her own clothes, trying to look like characters from

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Speaker 1: the Vogue magazine just isn't her. Um, So that is

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Speaker 1: dirty girts trying to trying to express Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: some other some other ways. Right, No, it's awesome. So

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Speaker 1: I love that. So just looking at your website and

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Speaker 1: look going through your things, Dirty Guards and a Snowflake

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Speaker 1: Man are very different types of set and different types

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Speaker 1: of puppets. What how do you decide what you will

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Speaker 1: do and how you will do it? Because it looks like, um,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much all of the Dirty Guards is paper?

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? Am I saying that too? Simply? Um?

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Speaker 1: Or some like drawings and animation I don't know, not

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Speaker 1: really animations, but the artwork is amazing. But then when

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Speaker 1: I looked at the Snowflake one, you had a like,

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Speaker 1: very lively set that's actual puppet. Correct? Maybe I'm just

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Speaker 1: looking at this wrong. But how do you decide how

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Speaker 1: you're going to present an idea based on whether it's

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Speaker 1: actual that small set? Does this make sense? Good question? Nope?

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Speaker 1: Nobody ever told me when I left school that I

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Speaker 1: should pick a form and become an expert at it.

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Speaker 1: So I come to learn that it's not common, but

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Speaker 1: there are some um puppeteers that do it. Where every

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Speaker 1: time I make a new show that I have a

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Speaker 1: new idea, sort of you just sit with it long

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Speaker 1: enough that you realized you can't shake it like you

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Speaker 1: have to or you know you're just gonna burst. So UM,

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Speaker 1: so I settle on this um idea. And typically all

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Speaker 1: of my stuff is not common. I didn't know snowf

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Speaker 1: like Bentley would actually do as well as it has.

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Speaker 1: He's now part of like common core standards where so

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Speaker 1: I go to every state, even like New Orleans where

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Speaker 1: they've never seen no and the kid knows no Bentley,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of amazing. So my timing couldn't have

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Speaker 1: been better with that. But the rest of my stuff

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Speaker 1: is is really just UM made up and sometimes UM

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Speaker 1: time makes the difference. UM. Another piece I have, I

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Speaker 1: guess the first one I did outside of college is

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Speaker 1: a shadow show where there's a picture window and then

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Speaker 1: there's a grandmother and little girl, UM, and the granddaughter

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Speaker 1: wants to hear stories about the fabrics and the quilt

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Speaker 1: she's sleeping under, so she's like I don't want to

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Speaker 1: hear a story. Makes me believe enough with the pray assessed,

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Speaker 1: it's already like I want to hear a true story.

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Speaker 1: And so that based on me pramming myself upwards into

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Speaker 1: the eighth grade, into my grandmother's chair and just like

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Speaker 1: tell me a story, we say, And so that is

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Speaker 1: me being able to express that moment. And um, then

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Speaker 1: when the grandmother tells the stories, the curtain come down

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Speaker 1: or the you know, over the window, and then shadows

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Speaker 1: are projected. So we go to backwards to her great

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Speaker 1: great grandmother who was on the underground railroad. And then

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Speaker 1: there's a story of an Irish memory quote which is

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Speaker 1: more of my family's component. And then the last piece

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Speaker 1: is a one room schoolhouse with the grandmother talked about

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Speaker 1: going to school the first time in a rag coat.

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Speaker 1: And the process of putting those together, with a lot

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Speaker 1: of late nights, not sleeping, lying in bed if you're

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Speaker 1: lying on ideas to pop in and then forcing myself

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Speaker 1: to turn the lamp on and write it all out

414
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Speaker 1: was just like just diving in completely thinking this has

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Speaker 1: to be done. This is a make or break moment.

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Speaker 1: I had already essentially books the show. I work really

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Speaker 1: well with that pressure. I don't I don't spend all

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Speaker 1: the time. A lot of people do the workshop for

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Speaker 1: weeks and make sure they're ready to present. I just

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Speaker 1: go for it. And so yeah, just becoming absolutely um

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Speaker 1: only allowing my mind, no matter what I'm doing, to

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Speaker 1: think about that show and had allowed for the story

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Speaker 1: to come together, and then the allowing for continue going

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Speaker 1: to develop it once it's got made. Having someone lean

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Speaker 1: in and say, oh, have you read this article before

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Speaker 1: or have you ever thought if you said this in

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Speaker 1: this moment would tie these other two things together. And

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Speaker 1: then you sort of grab at these different ideas and

429
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: and and mix them around. So the piece has grown

430
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: over the last there I say, how many years, fifteen years?

431
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: And now the d I Y Makers movement makes it cool.

432
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: So when I first made the show, it was like

433
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: my grandma quill and now you have every age coming

434
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: up to you. Was like, I'm part of a quilting club.

435
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: This is what I do. I It's definitely time has

436
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: been awesome for this piece and the advancement of the flashlights.

437
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: It's a flashlight technique where everything moves really cinematically, which

438
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: has been UM really a nice thing to explore was

439
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: and that has been led to this whole other night

440
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: Shade Shadow Theater group I'm part of, where we do

441
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: far more adult horror style stuff more Pzu thirteen. But

442
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: taking these flashlights and making everything flow around more like

443
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: a film is also a newer technique in shadow propetry.

444
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: So it's taking like a traditional flat form and um

445
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: being able to modernize it and make perspectives. You can

446
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: like have multiple layers and when you move the flashlight

447
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: it kind of almost looks like a cartoon where each

448
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,719
Speaker 1: layer moves at a different speed and they all blend

449
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: into each other in this really great way, so you

450
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: can get depth. You can have change character perspective, like

451
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: have one head large and the other characters small, and

452
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: flip it around so you can almost like a camera

453
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: turn the room around, which has been it's a great

454
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: technique for telling stories. That show was sort of like

455
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: the first solouette cutouts was a lot of just like

456
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: quick sketching cutting things out. I definitely I think spend

457
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: more time now to research inspiration for the style of

458
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: the cutout, because I really ended up recutting that entire

459
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: showy recutting, recutting, all the shadow puppets, all the paper figures,

460
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: based on gaining knowledge which I didn't really feel I

461
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: had until later in life, of how to look at

462
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: other forms of art and find inspiration from them. You know,

463
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: data is m or expressionism or just nature. So I

464
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: think and that that definitely has had the most influence,

465
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: and I would love to think other puppeteers getting started

466
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 1: or are pulling from these other places, because it's one

467
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: thing to sort of just look around and see what's

468
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: happening in Pulfe treats another thing to look around and

469
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: see what's not happening and trying to do that. That's

470
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: sort before I commit. Does that answer that question? Yeah? No,

471
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: that's also It sounds like just like you get ideas

472
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: and then you started thinking about creative ways to make

473
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: those ideas come to life, whether it's through as you

474
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: were talking about the light work or the different forms

475
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: of artwork, which is amazing and which is a fascinating

476
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: process because I can't imagine how many different types of ways,

477
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: especially with technology and the new things happening, how many

478
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: different forms are trying to be new or trying to

479
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: go back to old school. How do you how does

480
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: publically keep up with technology today. Is it a good thing,

481
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: a bad thing, or yeah, of course it happens. Yeah,

482
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: let's see how technology has advanced the form. I mean,

483
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot more people probably using technology more to

484
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: their advantage. I'm still like, I'm going to make this

485
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: out of wood and I make my own joint. So

486
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: a lot of things I do that are still pretty

487
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: I guess it could call them traditional informed because I

488
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: like creating every component. But one thing that I guess

489
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: has been pretty influential to me, and I do think

490
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: for other puppeteers, is this about motion industry, um, which

491
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: is like uh in working in that doing some different

492
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: commercials or made some costumes on Para Norman. You're you're

493
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: sort of brought in and it's like, oh, you make

494
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: puppets cool, Well, we're stout motion. So and it is

495
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: it's a whole other way of building because you're making

496
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: something that doesn't move until you want it to, and we,

497
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: on the other hand, are making something that moves until

498
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: you have to find a way to use the controller

499
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: or the rods or the light to make it stop. So, um,

500
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: it's a totally different other way of thinking. But they

501
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: also have different techniques, different materials, so as you get

502
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: in there, they're like, we so elements of the costume,

503
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: but we also have this amazing blue that you put

504
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: a little heat to it and it adheres things. And

505
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: then it's that for you know, the run of the project.

506
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: And so it's like, Wow, why why am I going

507
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: to the fabric store and settling on what I see?

508
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: Like they really opened me up to the fact that's

509
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: like you can dye the colors you want, you can

510
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: take the trims and add them to multiple other um

511
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: decorations and then actually create a new, unique something without

512
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: having to just settle on what you're finding in this store,

513
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: like at space sort of value Like that to me

514
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: is great because they are inventing every time they do

515
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: a new movie, all the colors, like, all of the designs,

516
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: all of the stitching techniques. So it's really up my game.

517
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: So um, and then they're also doing things like three

518
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: D printing and so now I know there are puppeteers

519
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: who are doing that, and I guess, um, the only

520
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: ways UH really used that is we've done by we

521
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: my partner and art and love Jason. We've created with

522
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: the created a music video for Japanther, and at that

523
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: point we have the puppets that are sort of scale

524
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: and we're building sets, and then you're like, wouldn't it

525
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: be nice if the bathroom had a soap dispense their

526
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: three D printer kind of kind of sign way you

527
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: can do. But I, for the most part in the

528
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: work that I do is public of Bob. Unless I

529
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: find something that's an antique dollpthing, I really don't I

530
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: really don't throw it in. I really make it using

531
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 1: much more out of date perhaps techniques. UM. But there

532
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: are people like um. The only example I can think

533
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: of right now is UM Hope Ford has this piece

534
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: on migration, UM, where this young girl comes to the

535
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: US from Mexico and having the monarchs my great sort

536
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: of gives her great comfort in this big transition. But

537
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: he is performing this puppet sort of partially attached to

538
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: his knees, so she walks by him moving his knees

539
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: through this netted circle, and then he has a projector

540
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: overlay on it. So it's kind of one of the

541
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: best uses of that element of technology, this sort of

542
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: video stuff, to make a much more dynamic and lively show.

543
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: As a solo performer because you can't you can't always

544
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: do all the parts, or you have to choose to

545
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: or have one hang and maybe the third characters looking

546
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: up in the distance. So I I think what's coming

547
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: about is cool because the puppetry has continued to progress

548
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: over thousands and thousands of years at this point, So

549
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: I don't believe it's a dying art form. I don't

550
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: really feel it everyone away. I can people rely a

551
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: lot on how much it's in the mainstream or on

552
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: TV or on these stream channels to prove that it's live.

553
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: But there's so many more of us doing stuff outside

554
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: of that platform that it hasn't gone anywhere. And I

555
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: don't think it's at its peak. I think it's really

556
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: just starting to be discovered the possibility. So even though

557
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 1: I haven't really really jumped in to some of these

558
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: new three D forty seventy effects um and it doesn't

559
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean I'm not supportive of others who are,

560
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: because why not, why not try at all? Sort of

561
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: this puppetry is this umbrella word for just like being

562
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: able to make a figure and find a soul for it,

563
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,959
Speaker 1: and once that soul is able to you know, come

564
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: to the stage and the audience is believing it's alive

565
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: and moving and they're interacting. It's almost sort of like

566
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: the point in the middle where some of the audience's

567
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 1: eyes and the figure like connect wherever they see whoever

568
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: that middle thing is. It's just like when you believe

569
00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: it and that's that's it, that's that's the puppet. Yeah. Um,

570
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: I know nothing about this. Any was the one that

571
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: was like, Hey, I want to do women in puppet

572
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: try and I was like cool, cool, And the more

573
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: I get didn't hear about it. It's really fascinating. It's

574
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: so broad and wide ranging and and so much talent

575
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: and obviously patients and trying to create. Like, I'm fascinated

576
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: by people who can do art, and this is one

577
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: of the most intense level of artistry that I think

578
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Maybe I'm just a novice, but like

579
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: the details. Just going through your photos or going through

580
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: our own center for puppet tree rs and see what

581
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: they're doing is phenomenal. Um, how long does it usually

582
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: take you to create a puppet or a figure? What? What?

583
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: How long does it usually take to get that done

584
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: or completed? Yeah, that's the snowflake man was an entire

585
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: year for sure. Then other things like them. I had

586
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: these larger maryinests, most of them made during studies in

587
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: Germany and Albert Grozer's studio with him and his partner

588
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: Ingrid His So we would be there for like six weeks.

589
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: We there was a handful of US Americans. The bold

590
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: Americans are like, hey, Rother, we want to study with

591
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 1: you further. Can we just come to your workshop? Cool? Okay,

592
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: we'll be there in July and we're gonna we're going

593
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: to spend two months, but at least a month. For

594
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: those it's just there's just no way. It just takes

595
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: the time. Or as you say, the patients, which often

596
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: I don't feel I have, but someone will always lean

597
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: over and like wait for it. There ah. But those

598
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 1: larger marry net figures, you're you're carving the heads and

599
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: you're carving the hands. He wants. Um Rosa once said

600
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: to us when we arrived you your goal is to

601
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: make a head and shoulder maryette, which is this um

602
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: type of marryingette. Uh. He created that has this controller

603
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: that starts to sort of the forty five degree angle

604
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: where there's a piece that's lose like a trigger you

605
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: pull and it makes the shoulders go back in the

606
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: head go forward and um. Just depending on what you

607
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: make depends on what sort of mood or story it expresses.

608
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: So I'm going to have two days. You're gonna make

609
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: this head and shoulder puppet. And we didn't sleep, literally

610
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 1: for forty eight hours, all of us. You're just carving

611
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: ahead and hands and you're trying to make it work.

612
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: And so he comes in. He disappears for that time.

613
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: When he comes in and we're standing there with these pieces,

614
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: were like, we failed, we failed, We've been finished, we

615
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: have had we have hands, we don't we have paint

616
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: at them, and he goes, yeah, yeah, sometimes it takes

617
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: me a whole year to make a puppet. And the

618
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: truth actually is in seeing him, compared to some other artists,

619
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: he would spend eight years or twenty years. He would

620
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: just take the time needed to make the puppet that

621
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: expressed what he wanted to put on stage. It was

622
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: not that I have to have a show. I have

623
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: to have you know, I have this tour and all

624
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: these things set up. He had this piece that was

625
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: like stuff when sent ensemble where he could add a

626
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: vignette and he could remove it, so he would just

627
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: spend his time trying to create whatever new innovation he

628
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: wanted and allowed it to take however long. And I

629
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: I don't have patience for that. I sure know that

630
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: I like I guess I do both. So I have

631
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: these marionettes that I've finally put into sort of a

632
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: vignette program, and I went just to Germany last month

633
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: and UM performed it along with Ingrid, who's eighty two.

634
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: So that to be on stage with h Ingrid performing

635
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: two masks, which is the first time she's really been

636
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: able to get up and have a piece of her own.

637
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: She was always assisting Rosa with his shows, which was

638
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: very important and fulfilling for her for this long time,

639
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: and then since he passed, she's been able to find

640
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: her own footing on stage. And what she does is beautiful,

641
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: like she's taken everything she's absorbed and can get up

642
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: there and can have you feeling these emotions by just

643
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: her movement and the way the mask moves into the light.

644
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: The lighting is very important to make the expression on

645
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: the face change shape. And then UM performed with Robin Walsh,

646
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: another puppeteer from Los Angeles who came. So it was

647
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: sort of like our homage I guess to Roser, just

648
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,959
Speaker 1: just sort of pay tribute. But at the same time

649
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: I feel them. This last month was really about ingrid

650
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: like it just it just really has proved that you

651
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: should never stop. It's just I guess I'll retire when

652
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: I die because A two, she's popping up on the

653
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: stage putting this mask on. You don't you don't even

654
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: know where she goes, this whole other being Porto. I'm like,

655
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: there's I have no excuse not to continue doing this

656
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: like this is that's the That's it. That's it's so beautiful,

657
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: just amazing. So it sounds like you guys have are

658
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: you a found a really close knit community? Is that

659
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: something that is been welcoming in this community? Let's say

660
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: I wanted to, Not that I would because I'm not

661
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: as cool. It's creative. That's not a dig all myself.

662
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm not. But um, like, just are you

663
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: Is it really opening environment to have bring new people in?

664
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: Is it to grow to push like do you have?

665
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: Because the people we met uh last week, Um, they

666
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: were coming in from Quebec, Yeah, to meet up the

667
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: Atlanta crew and I thought that was really fun. They're

668
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: about to go back to when were they going l

669
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 1: A at one? Oh, I felt like they were going

670
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,720
Speaker 1: to Europe? Europe? Yeah maybe so maybe I'm wrong. Um,

671
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: but is that is that a basis for the whole

672
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: puppetry community or is that just me living in an

673
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: idyllic like fantasy of like, yeah, they all hang out

674
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: taco and do some art. Well. I actually, um feel

675
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: that you're in a great place in Atlanta, because any

676
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: time I've come through Atlanta for even a little bit,

677
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: I feel like the puppeteers pop out of everywhere and

678
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: they're like, how do you have a show? We're gonna

679
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: let everybody know. You're like, yes, thank you. It's just

680
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: they're just so active. And then in different places it

681
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: can feel different. I feel like there's certain places I

682
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: love to go, like New Orleans. This woman Pandora runs

683
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: this giant puppet festival, so she's just she runs the

684
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: whole thing. She's just a fourth and at the same

685
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: time as creating and producing a new show, to be

686
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: in it and going there feels so familiar like going home.

687
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: We sort of have all I've found these sort of yeah,

688
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: they're off the beaten past festivals that I love going to,

689
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: and then we have like our national sort of puppet

690
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: Tiers of America festival, and um, I think a lot

691
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: of work is done to be inclusive. But at the

692
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: same time, I don't know that everybody who's doing puppetry

693
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: around the US knows UM about that group. Yeah, Portland's up. Okay,

694
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: a little back. I'm going to find one answer, because

695
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: the answer is yes and no. That's the hard that's

696
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: probably with all communities to any kind of basis. But yeah,

697
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: just something like you found a good footing, um and

698
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: just get people to connect with which is awesome. I

699
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: found a perfect, perfect blend of weirdos. Yes, yes, I

700
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: find that there are places I go that are absolutely

701
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: um inclusive. Atlanta is one of the more awesome places,

702
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: and then there are other places where I guess the

703
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 1: level of commitment that one has to do to sort

704
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: of be part of the club or the group I

705
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: can't do because I do these tours where I just

706
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: don't sit still very well. So I tend to to

707
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 1: make myself a family with whoever will let me show

708
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: up and a little bit of time, you know, use

709
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 1: their shampoo and leave awesome. In my head, I'm like, yeah,

710
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: I could, I could see where are some places is

711
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: going to be a little more involved than others and

712
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: and just fighting your group. It doesn't matter what it

713
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: is that there's gonna be great places in okay places

714
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: we'll leave um and for you And just to kind

715
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 1: of throw it out there as a female coming into

716
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: this profession and creating your own shows and um being

717
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: a part of you. You've been part of a few

718
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: really big projects. It looks like, um, have you felt

719
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: like there's any backlash or any issues that you've had

720
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: to deal with overcome as a female in this industry? Guess? Guess.

721
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: One of the first jobs I got touring was with

722
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: a family of male performers where one of them tried

723
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: to make me his his his object essentially, so I

724
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: had to leave and it really it really puts a

725
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: strain on feeling comfortable jumping into anything. There's always a

726
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: little bit of a start up. But I think also

727
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: by being at times a solo performer, there's a lot

728
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: to be gained the confidence wise from that. It's like

729
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: you have to show up and be prepared to make

730
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: every component at least at how puppetry roles. You do

731
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: your own sound, you do your own light, you do

732
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: your own staging, you do your own story. There's you know,

733
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: and then you can oftentimes find these great other artists

734
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: who are passionate of what the technique or the running

735
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: the theater or roxy my room and the puppet show

736
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: place theater is just such a great um strong female

737
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: in that role. I also think because she played rugby,

738
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: because you're an extra it um but you know, you

739
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: you show up and it's just like, you know, you

740
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: have these spaces to keep where um, yeah, you're made

741
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: to feel like you of course you can do any

742
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: of these things. Do you need support or not? Like

743
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: do you want some of becoming and help with these

744
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 1: things or do you should get out of the way.

745
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: That's kind of kind of the yeah, finding finding that

746
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: strength and taking control of what you need to and

747
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: you know, otherwise, you know, show up to a new

748
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: space and you sort of sort of wait, what is

749
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: this going to be? How you know, how how friendly

750
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: I guess can I be? Because like that's that's the

751
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: last thing I want to do, is I think I'm

752
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: you know, to be told that I asked for something

753
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: that I certainly didn't feel I was was even was

754
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: even there to do It's not but not there for you.

755
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: I was there to learn this art form. But it's

756
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: uh yeah, it's it's definitely interesting too as a female

757
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: performing marionettes there certainly it's a much more male dominated

758
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: forum here in the US, But then it's a sort

759
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 1: of a mixture. There's a really at least great core

760
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: group that go to some of these more national festivals

761
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: and they're just like, we'll sort of yeah, talk to

762
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: you just on the level, like without looking at you

763
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: like you're lesser. Then, but there's there's short of you

764
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: look around you're like, I want female and it's the

765
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: whole group of male marrying at puppeteers. Wait a minute,

766
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: where the rest of us? So you know, how have

767
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: you seen a change in that since you've been in

768
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 1: you said you've been in here in this industry about

769
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: fifteen years. Have you seen a change or a progression

770
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: of that? I guess I feel there's still a pretty

771
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:31,919
Speaker 1: good blend with most forms of running into what would

772
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: be male and female puppeteers. But I I don't, I

773
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: don't know. I think I gus I sit here, I

774
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: could name far more groups that are mixed or men

775
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: versus female. But that doesn't mean I don't know every

776
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: group either. So and there's no platform where everybody is

777
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: sort of existing, um, sort of chiming in, Hey I'm

778
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: out here. If you have a roll through this random town,

779
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: you know, my guard just full of things. I make

780
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: them so you you don't. I don't know everybody who's

781
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: out there, but I, at least for me, I have

782
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: this great um my best friend. In college, there was

783
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: six of us who graduated from YUKLEM the year I graduated,

784
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: and my best friend Kaylee Clemmons and I are the

785
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: two who are most like puppetry is what we do

786
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: and we're not making a puppet. We always joke that

787
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: we're making a puppet because that's what we do. So

788
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,959
Speaker 1: for me, I have I have a few strong, um

789
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: inspirational um women around another best friend, Carol Gegastino, who

790
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: is the shop manager at the Center for Puppetry Arts,

791
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 1: And I almost feel like that's probably all I need,

792
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: these few, you know, like I don't, you know, it

793
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: doesn't so much matter that I look around and don't

794
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: see an even spread at just I've got these and

795
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: that's that's it. That's the fuel to keep me going.

796
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: That's the when I you know, there's an issue, call

797
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: and talk to them and they're just like, ah, who

798
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: needs that? Keep going? You go, you know, go to

799
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: this other awesome thing and you're gonna show them. And

800
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: then they're gonna you know, I wish they'd been more respectful,

801
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 1: and you're like, that's right to my art. I didn't

802
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: show them that I'm unstoppable. So you got your squad,

803
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: and that's good. You're good with that squad. We have

804
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more of our conversation here, but first

805
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: we have one more CREP break for word from our

806
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's get back

807
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: into it. One thing we talked about in our the

808
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: other interview we did is um how throughout history, the

809
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: history of puppetry, puppets have been a tool that was

810
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: used to criticize people in power when maybe doing so

811
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: in person was dangerous. UM. And then now these days

812
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: puppets are also used for therapy and therapy with children

813
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: or people have gone through trauma. UM. Is that something

814
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: that you've seen, like the power of puppetry outside of

815
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: making powerful art? Um? Just other ways that maybe people

816
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: don't realize puppetry is used. Are also just what what

817
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: is it that you about it that you think makes

818
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: it this powerful tool. Yes, it's that's a very good question.

819
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think on that, and I wonder if because

820
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: the puppet like as human adults were giants. So when

821
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: you're doing some art therapy, specifically with kids, were like

822
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: monster sized, and then you have this small puppet, and

823
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 1: it's amazing what they will turn and say that they

824
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 1: feel comfortable, they have to help or protect or they

825
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 1: are instantly engaging with this very small object that's maybe

826
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: on their scale or even smaller than them, and it's

827
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: amazing what can come out that I think oftentimes an

828
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: adult can't get joy an adult. Um, I guess the

829
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: one example I have and it's not I wasn't there,

830
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: but my puppet was. I gave some puppets to my friends,

831
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: Um Bruce Lee actually a bad piper, not a martial artist,

832
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: but he did some art therapy and art teaching studies

833
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: and then UM got into a few schools in Vermont

834
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: and I, you know, said, I have these puppets. I

835
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: kind of made them that I'm not going to put

836
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: in any shows would you like them for your classrooms.

837
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: So he had a student who hadn't spoken yet, and

838
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: he was doing some art therapy and he pulled this

839
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: puppet out and the kid apparently started talking to the puppet.

840
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 1: They really weren't sure a hundred percent what was happening,

841
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: but no one had heard him speak. So it's, you know,

842
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: has this ability to open up things for the just

843
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: being in Germany too and talking about because this is

844
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: kind of a new thing here. But they have their

845
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: um what they kind of translates to psycho drama, which

846
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: is theater too, is like that, like art therapy. So

847
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: this umol and Eliza who I met, talked about before

848
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 1: there were certain men to help with schizophrenia or people

849
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: who were catatonic and stuff. After the war, she had

850
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: a puppet that would come up to someone who was

851
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 1: frozen who hadn't moved or spoken, and to the puppet

852
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 1: would sort of stay, you know, why are we laying here?

853
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: The sun is that, let's go outside. Why are we

854
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: laying here? The sun is that, let's go outside? And

855
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 1: she said she would persist us. The little puppet would

856
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: tap on them and they would just turn and bash

857
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: the puppet away. Or you know, because I don't want to,

858
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: you know whatever, and hearing her stories it's like this,

859
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 1: you know, amazing tool forgetting things to come out that

860
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: otherwise I don't know. They just maybe I just don't

861
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: want to tell a stranger. But the pulp that's not

862
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: like however that works. Um, it's yeah, I think it's

863
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: so great that that's happening here. More so now that

864
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: I just and well, I guess I do have one,

865
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: a slightly more personal story, and you can choose your

866
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: one out of three or anyway, Yeah, let's see the

867
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: some Like the summer after I graduated Yukon, I went

868
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: to Gayalesburg, Illinois for this um sort of like what

869
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: was it like an artist residency and met this woman Lisa,

870
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: who was working in facility for Titled for disabled adults,

871
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: and they also had a sort of a kid's um

872
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: summer camp happening. So she asked if I would bring

873
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: a puppet show in. I had created this small shadow

874
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: show and would make puppets with the participants, but it

875
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: was all very quiet where the nurses and she were

876
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: so involved. But not everybody in this institution thought that

877
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: art was the best um way or the best means

878
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: to help. Uh. So I walk into this really amazing

879
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: office that's got some you know, generic we bought it

880
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: the store pictures, but at least there's color, and there's

881
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: you know, something in visually engaged. And then into a

882
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: hallway that goes just neutral, just cream colored walls all

883
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: the way down, looking in different rooms of adults sort

884
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: of gathered in wheelchairs or in chairs with nothing on

885
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: the wall, just room after room. It used to be

886
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: like an airplane, making this room after room after room

887
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 1: after room, and just feeling the weight of like is

888
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: this really? Is this what you feel is the best way? Oh?

889
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: My word? And so get into this room which is

890
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: already full of adults because the time I was going

891
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: to set up, they felt was show time. So they

892
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: are the happiest group. They watched me set up my

893
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 1: whole stage, watched the program. I mean, we had such

894
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: an amazing time together. And then I bought into the

895
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: next room where I have things um for them to make,

896
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: mostly textural stuff. So as they come, you m to

897
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: the table. There were so many different things happening, so

898
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: many different I guess should say special abilities, so some

899
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 1: would just sort of start grabbing, you know, father's tompon

900
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: soft boss off, stober up the form, put it on

901
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: and they head off all like super happy, like interacting,

902
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: ready performing. And then some didn't have use of hands,

903
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 1: but you couldn't put the object or the you know,

904
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 1: craft component near them and see a spark when you

905
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: got you chose correctly and so and that would sort

906
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: of get glued on and they you know, would sort

907
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: of send be rolled out the door like yeah, It's

908
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: just it was like, there's so much happening here right now.

909
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: How how is it I'm in this room having to

910
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: be very this is very quiet, Like no, you know,

911
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: the main people who run this institution aren't supposed to

912
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: know I'm here right now, but Lesa's gone rogue and

913
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: it's like I can only see benefit. And then I

914
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 1: go to do this summer camp program with these kids

915
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: where we were going to decorate masks and they were

916
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: happy just putting eyeholes and a string and running around

917
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: with the paper plate like yeah, like oh you don't,

918
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: you don't need more. You totally transformed so quickly, and

919
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: then they're running around having the best time. And then

920
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: I went home and cried because I was like low, low, well,

921
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: I mean I watched that. You know what's the the

922
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: movie was savage, like plays the kid who's wheeled around

923
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: and eating thistlication and it's not blowing. Well, I'm like,

924
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 1: oh my god, that that's gonna be based on a truth. Sorry,

925
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, there's like such a joy to

926
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: be able to know that you had that, you had

927
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,760
Speaker 1: that moment together. This was like this at the moment

928
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: you've created with this whole group of people that otherwise,

929
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, like I wouldn't have had it, and maybe

930
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: they would have had it with somebody else, but it

931
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: got to be me. And then at the same time,

932
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: I'm like so many dead looking rooms with no vironcy,

933
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,240
Speaker 1: no color, you know, like, you know, the the most

934
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: cool thing to look at was your neighbor con I

935
00:56:49,040 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: love it. So that was such a great answer. Thank you?

936
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: Is there Do you have any advice for people who

937
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: might be listening you might be interested in getting into puppetry?

938
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: Do it? Just do it? Yeah you got there first,

939
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, I just at this point, I just there's

940
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: so many forms. So if there's you know, it's hard

941
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: to believe that someone um who is sort of an

942
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 1: adult who's wanting to get into it hasn't had some

943
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: forms of interactions. So it's like question, then you know

944
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: what is it? Is it a form of fear or

945
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: you haven't tried? Is it a form of art that

946
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: you want to try because you paint and you sculpt

947
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: and you realize all the components could come together. Is

948
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: it because you participated in something when you were young

949
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: and always loved it and I just think that's those

950
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: are all the great reasons to start, or just because

951
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: you want to know what what makes a puppeteer? You know,

952
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: love this form? What what makes yeah? How? Why why

953
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: are you playing with Dolph? Will you are grown up

954
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: and buy it? There's um theaters everywhere, you know, the

955
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: Center for Puppetry Arts, the Puppet Show Placed Theater and Boston,

956
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: the Greaters on a puppet Theater, the Northwest Puppet Center

957
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: in Seattle. There's there are places that as your rolling

958
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: around that you can call and and go to. And

959
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: these people are absolutely passionate and have examples to show.

960
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: They have collections, they have a variety of stuff. If

961
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: there's an artist whose work you see, uh, call them,

962
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, I like, I like to show you he

963
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: did where you you know, you know, whatever Body Dunk

964
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: and Squirrel fill my underpants. I love this show where

965
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: you dance around with the squirrel because you took your

966
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: underpants and you're like, can I come over? Why? Yes?

967
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: Like I don't. I've never said no to anyone who's called.

968
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: And it's like, I kind of have this puppetry idea.

969
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: I have no idea. If it's gonna work, can I

970
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: come hang out? And I'm like, I will have the

971
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: hot water and key ready. That's I mean, that's I

972
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: guess what you talked about community. That's um. If someone

973
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: shows an interest, I absolutely I feel it's worth trying.

974
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: There's so many books, there's so many platforms. I guess

975
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,959
Speaker 1: if you want to go online and chat that way,

976
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: I personally like to find people. So yeah, that's lovely. Yeah. Yeah.

977
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: We're big fans of like mentorship here. So when I'm

978
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 1: getting when I'm ready, I'm going to fly to Portland

979
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: and come see you. Someth is trying to get a

980
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: puppet made of herself so she can get out of work.

981
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get someone to help me make a

982
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: puppet of myself so I can pretend that I'm at

983
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: work and it will fool me completely. That is absolutely doable.

984
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: Now you just have to pick wich form you want

985
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: to be right. Many decisions, so many decisions. That's right.

986
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: There Is there anything in the future that you are

987
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: looking forward to, either personally or for puppetry in general. Yeah, well,

988
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: I guess personally, I'll start a part of this project

989
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 1: called The Spooky Girls, UM, which I guess talking about

990
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: female lead characters. It's about these young teenage witches and

991
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 1: um working to make it into a film. Again for me,

992
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 1: it's also something new that there would be an end

993
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: product that could travel around the world the places but

994
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: even I couldn't get to us quickly. Um. But the

995
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: it's a group where there's for four teen girls who

996
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: come to know each other in very different ways UM.

997
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 1: And so they are in the sense of all the

998
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: main characters UM. And then there's sort of what's the

999
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: short story? There's Yeah, there's sort of toying, toying I

1000
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: should say, with rich witchcraft um and and through that

1001
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: something sort of turned upside down for them. That then

1002
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: there are what's the word, you're not they're not erasable,

1003
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: so they have to then live their normal teenage lives

1004
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: with all these crazy games happening, um, being able to

1005
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: work while I work with two other two other fellows

1006
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: actually on this more closely than Jason Thibadeau and Gabriel

1007
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: Timmy and the puppets are like a hybrid of puppetry

1008
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: and animation UM techniques together, so that is that is exciting.

1009
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: But it's been nice to sort of be the female

1010
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 1: force for when they're like, hey, we have this idea

1011
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: and like the girl and say it that way, so

1012
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: you can't you have to you have to listen to me,

1013
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: give you all the input or help. This is not

1014
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: happening right UM. But I'm excited for that. It's something

1015
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: totally new for me because I definitely spend more time

1016
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: on the stage um. And then for the future of

1017
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: puppetry gosh, I love that so many other people at

1018
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: this point will just say hey, I'm a puppeteer, and

1019
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: then you get to find out to what level or

1020
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: degree or what percent of time I guess, I don't know.

1021
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated with those things where it's like is this

1022
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: your everything is this year after school saying is this

1023
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: your evening thing? With email, but they'll be like resumes

1024
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: or little business cards of people who are like entrepreneur, actor, puppeteer, sculptor,

1025
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 1: and you're like, I need to know about all of

1026
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: these both specifically, let's start with puppetree. I feel like

1027
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: there's more, um, I guess, feeling much more confident and

1028
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: bold about saying it. And then through that, I think

1029
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: more opportunities are going to get created. Yeah, go puppets

1030
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: that um where Well, first of all, thank you so

1031
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 1: much for joining us and having a conversation with us.

1032
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: Where can listeners for having Oh absolutely, let's see puppet

1033
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: kebab dot com. Um, let's see on Instagram as puppet

1034
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 1: Underscore Kebab or as the hand in the Shadow, which

1035
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: is a mixture of the adult shadow work and the

1036
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: spooky girls stuff. I guess those are the main the

1037
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 1: main ways I travel around. So if any any listener

1038
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 1: as a theater in your town, do you know it

1039
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: is starting to get into puppet you just send that

1040
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: information my way because I love going to places that

1041
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: are unsure and then you know, I mean, I'm going

1042
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: to like puppet stuff, but I especially love going to

1043
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: places where they're like, well, I guess we'll try it. Well,

1044
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 1: we got an audience and I'm like, oh yeah, you

1045
01:03:48,760 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: will perfect listeners, send that information her way. Give me

1046
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: the skeptics, yess one of the more radical do you

1047
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: help puppet cheers in their face? Don't you want to

1048
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: do this for every now once a month series, Let's

1049
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: go perfect? Absolutely perfect? Well, thank you so much for

1050
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: joining us, Thank you so much, Thank you for having me.

1051
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: I love the title of this podcast too. Mom never

1052
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: told you. My mom never told me about puppets. That's

1053
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: I don't think my mom knows about puppets. It's good. Well,

1054
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: my mom didn't tell me no to puppet so there

1055
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: you go. There you go. You probably knew I wouldn't

1056
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: listen anyway. And that brings us to the end of

1057
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 1: our second interview in women in Puppetry. Uh, if any

1058
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: of you want are doing puppetry shows, are working in puppetry,

1059
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: or if you're interested like Sarah Afford and you know

1060
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: she she's it's pretty excited. Yeah, yeah, definitely reach out

1061
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: to her. And definitely, yeah, someone wants the makeup puppet

1062
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:11,439
Speaker 1: of me? Oh yeah, Annie, Annie, and I Samantha would

1063
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 1: not turned that down either. Throwing in the gauntlet down

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Speaker 1: the lazy as possible. Here you can help Samantha live

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Speaker 1: her best life. Yeah, so definitely feel free to reach

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Speaker 1: out to us if if you are doing cool work

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Speaker 1: in puppetry, or if he would if you're looking for

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Speaker 1: the contact and vote for Sarah or any any of

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Speaker 1: our other interviewees, you can do that via email. Our

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Speaker 1: email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast

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Speaker 1: and on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks

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Speaker 1: as always to our superducer Andrew Howard, and and thanks

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Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff I'm Never Told You the

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Speaker 1: protection of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the ihar radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,