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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, and this is Fast Politics, where

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Speaker 1: we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's

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Speaker 1: best minds. And Texas Attorney General, now Senate candidate Ken Paxton,

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Speaker 1: says the criticism that I let a child predator out

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Speaker 1: after one day, well, guess what? They served 60 days.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. The

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Speaker 1: Lincoln Project's own Stuart Stevens stops by to talk about

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Speaker 1: Jack Smith's damning testimony to the Senate. Then we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to Mahmoud Khalil about his new book, No Land to

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Speaker 1: Stand On, Notes from Detention. But first, the news.

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Speaker 2: Molly, one of the things we talk about on this

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Speaker 2: podcast a lot is the idea that We will know

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Speaker 2: that something is going to happen. It hasn't happened yet

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Speaker 2: in the Trump administration. But this is one of those

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Speaker 2: things we knew was going to happen, is that he

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Speaker 2: would take our tax dollars and make ads that just

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Speaker 2: praise him up and down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the campaign ads. So this is Donald Trump taking

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Speaker 1: tax dollars and using them for campaign ads. Like, you'll

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Speaker 1: remember that there's this thing called the Hatch Act, which

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Speaker 1: prevents people in office, like the Biden administration from doing

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Speaker 1: campaign stuff on the taxpayer dime. That's what it was

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Speaker 1: created for. Here we have the Trump administration doing campaign

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Speaker 1: ads on the taxpayer dime. Now, this is just so

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Speaker 1: atrocious on every level. And remember, this is a president

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Speaker 1: who has traded more stock trading than the members of Congress,

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Speaker 1: more stock trading, right? I mean, he's grown his net

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Speaker 1: worth to billions of dollars. He has a sort of,

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Speaker 1: if you look up kleptocracy in the dictionary, there's a

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Speaker 1: picture of him. And he has this enormous pack called

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Speaker 1: MAGA Inc. with hundreds of millions of dollars in it,

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Speaker 1: But he's using our taxpayer dollars to do ads. And again,

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Speaker 1: like this, these are the people who said they were

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Speaker 1: going to get waste, fraud and abuse out of government. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is both waste, fraud and abuse.

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Speaker 2: I'll say so. So I find this personally to be

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Speaker 2: one of the most egregious things. We did a interview

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Speaker 2: with Michael Lewis, the author that's going to air later

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Speaker 2: in the week. about all these different ways that Trump

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Speaker 2: has cut off people in the government. And this is

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Speaker 2: one of the most short-sighted things as the education department

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Speaker 2: is going to cut off student loans for people like

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Speaker 2: social workers and people who work in music and things

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Speaker 2: like that because they can't repay their student loans in

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Speaker 2: the government's eyes.

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Speaker 1: It's both like stupid, but it's also part of what

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Speaker 1: their plan is, right? Which is to make it to

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Speaker 1: sort of starve humanities, to make it so that people

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Speaker 1: don't go into these jobs, that they don't get English majors,

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Speaker 1: that they don't, And so here's the idea. If your

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Speaker 1: degree doesn't make enough money, you won't be able to

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Speaker 1: get student loans. So the education department, which is run

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Speaker 1: by a wrestling executive, Linda McMahon, you may remember her

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Speaker 1: as being a person who could not win a Senate

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Speaker 1: seat in Connecticut.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: That's what she's most famous for. And also helping her,

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Speaker 1: you know, working at the wrestling firm, her husband, there's

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Speaker 1: all sorts of stories about her husband.

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Speaker 2: If you were, if you were to think of a,

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Speaker 2: wrestling and education as more polar things. Is there a

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Speaker 2: sport that you could think of that is less like education?

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Speaker 1: Well, I just think that what this shows is that

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Speaker 1: Trump really does not care, right? He does not care

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Speaker 1: about the Department of Education. If he could get rid

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Speaker 1: of it today, he would. So the goal here is

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Speaker 1: to they're going to use the IRS data to determine

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Speaker 1: student salaries four years after they graduate and compare to

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Speaker 1: those similar in age who have high school diplomas, and

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Speaker 1: if they feel that the college degree makes them more money,

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Speaker 1: then they will let them use student loans. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is just... I know how they got here, which

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Speaker 1: is they hate the humanities because they worry that humanities...

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Speaker 1: makes writers and people who can think for themselves. And

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Speaker 1: they hate that. So they want everyone to do business degrees. Again,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Like you can do a humanities degree,

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Speaker 1: go to law school and become a, you know, a

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Speaker 1: partner at a law firm and make as much money

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Speaker 1: as anyone. I mean, this whole way of thinking is

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Speaker 1: completely fakakta. And I would like to say that this

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Speaker 1: administration is completely fakakta. So it makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the things I learned when I researched

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Speaker 2: that book I wrote on creativity is that what you

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Speaker 2: see from most of the people who do really innovative things,

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Speaker 2: one of the things we take pride in in America,

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Speaker 2: is that you actually learn a different discipline, but then

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Speaker 2: you bring it to a new discipline when you change jobs.

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Speaker 2: And that creates innovation because you see from a perspective,

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Speaker 2: that people haven't changed. And what we often see is

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Speaker 2: people with creative degrees like music degrees then go into

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Speaker 2: tech and do something totally different that gets to a

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Speaker 2: conclusion that makes America a better place.

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Speaker 1: This is just moronics. It's ultimate moron. And it is

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Speaker 1: so very much how it, works in this administration, that

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Speaker 1: they don't value education. They don't value thinking. And that

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Speaker 1: is how we get into problems. Because they don't value thinking,

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Speaker 1: they constantly do the kind of things that if people

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Speaker 1: were having real serious conversations and war gaming scenarios, you

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Speaker 1: would not do, like bomb Iran.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of bombing Iran... One of the quotes that's been

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Speaker 2: ringing in my ear that we told on the last

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Speaker 2: episode was Peter Thiel saying that the Trump administration rewards

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Speaker 2: stupid but loyal people in positions. And we now see

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Speaker 2: Hegseth is going to cut 20% of the admirals and generals.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it'll be all the woke generals.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I want to point out that that

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Speaker 1: is Peter Thiel, right, responsible for J.D. Vance, responsible for

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Speaker 1: some of the worst political candidates that we've seen in

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Speaker 1: the last decade. But not wrong about this, right? He

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Speaker 1: gets it because anyone who watches this administration knows that

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Speaker 1: what is rewarded is fealty and what is rejected is brains.

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Speaker 1: And so you have... Really the dumbest, you know, just

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Speaker 1: the dumbest of America running our country right now. And

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Speaker 1: Whiskey Pete is no exception to the rule. He is

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Speaker 1: planning to cut slots slated for admirals and generals at

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Speaker 1: the Pentagon to push his overhaul of the Department of Defense,

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Speaker 1: which he now calls the Department of War, which is

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Speaker 1: apt because we are trapped in an endless war in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East. This is not the time to start

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Speaker 1: trimming the people who are the high level people who

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Speaker 1: know what's happening. And you have to wonder why he's

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Speaker 1: doing this at this moment. And they've just asked for

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Speaker 1: so much more money, the Pentagon. And it's just a

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Speaker 1: very like I'm not I mean, I guess he wants to,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's so much of what we see with

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Speaker 1: Whiskey Pete is him just sort of trying to flex

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Speaker 1: his power to show that he has it. And there's

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Speaker 1: just not a lot of thoughtful governance going on. And

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Speaker 1: you'll remember that, like in the house, Mike Johnson sent

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Speaker 1: the house home because he they were talking about doing

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Speaker 1: an impeachment vote on Pete Hegseth. And if you don't

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Speaker 1: see what's coming down the pike when it comes to

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Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth getting impeached and possibly getting removed, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you have to have 67 members to remove, and that's

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Speaker 1: a lot of members. But, like, you could see how

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Speaker 1: they could get there. I mean, that's not impossible.

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Speaker 2: I agree.

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Speaker 4: So, speaking of.

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Speaker 2: I really liked this question this week that was posed

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Speaker 2: to Will Lawrence in Michigan 7th. Who would you impeach first?

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Speaker 2: And so, Molly, I know your personal pick might be

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Speaker 2: hard between Higgs and RFK Jr., but I'm going to

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Speaker 2: give you something for the RFK Jr.

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Speaker 4: Column.

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Speaker 2: He wants to give your health data to the government

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Speaker 2: and your favorite thing, AI.

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Speaker 3: This was interesting.

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Speaker 1: RFK Jr. speaking at the Maha Summit. I want to

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Speaker 1: say a few things about the Maha Summit. One of

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Speaker 1: the emcees was Russell Brand. Russell Brand is currently facing

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Speaker 1: prosecution in the UK, right?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: So just an absolutely incredible person to have at your

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Speaker 1: conference today. interviewing Dr. Oz about Medicare and Medicaid. But

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Speaker 1: let me just say a few things here. So RFK Jr.

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Speaker 1: was complaining that he couldn't get the anti-vax data he

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Speaker 1: wanted so that he could find more vaccine. You know,

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Speaker 1: the whole RFK really has one thing he wants to do,

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Speaker 1: which is to make it so you can't get vaccines

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Speaker 1: and also so you can't get SSRIs. But so you

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Speaker 1: can get like any kind of hormones, peptides, flavored zin,

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Speaker 1: flavored vapes.

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Speaker 4: Oh, yes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're big into flavored vapes. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: just like the opposite of what HHS should be doing.

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Speaker 1: So he was complaining about that, and he said, this

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Speaker 1: is the quote, Medicaid is a really useful vehicle for

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Speaker 1: studying because there are hundreds of millions of lives in there,

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Speaker 1: including tens of millions of children, who've been in that

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Speaker 1: program for 10 or 20 years. Medicare gives us enormous

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Speaker 1: amounts of information on older Americans with disabilities, studies that

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Speaker 1: used to take years. You can do them in seconds.

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Speaker 1: You can ask questions and you can get immediate answers.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we're doing today. AI can research patterns

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Speaker 1: across millions of health histories that human beings could never

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Speaker 1: find by reading those records one at a time. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, when I AI myself, what came off was

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Speaker 1: something about, it wasn't me, it was someone else. So

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Speaker 1: I don't, there still seems to be some mistakes here,

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Speaker 1: but let's use it for air traffic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, a thing I heard that was very

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Speaker 2: wise recently is AI is a real fool's Russian game

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Speaker 2: that what we should be doing is waiting until these

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Speaker 2: things get good before we start doing it. But instead,

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Speaker 2: all the biggest fools are rushing in and going, who

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Speaker 2: cares if it's making a bunch of mistakes? It's like,

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Speaker 2: who cares if all these people are going to get

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Speaker 2: left behind in bad information that lead to bad outcomes,

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Speaker 2: especially in health?

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah. Well, RFK Jr. does not care. And this

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Speaker 1: is what you should expect from someone who works out

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Speaker 1: in jeans. Stuart Stevens is a legendary campaign manager and

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Speaker 1: the author of The Conspiracy to End America, Five Ways

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Speaker 1: My Old Party is Driving Our Democracy to Autocracy.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, welcome, Stuart Stevens.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for asking me to party, Molly.

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Speaker 1: So... Jack Smith testified for the Senate today, and it

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Speaker 1: was like it did not go the way Republicans hoped.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look, you know, in this debate that happens inside

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Speaker 4: the Democratic Party, you know, assuming they take power, which

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Speaker 4: I think they will, how much should they focus on

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Speaker 4: holding those inside the Trump world accountable? And how much

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Speaker 4: should they focus on, you know, stuff that will lower

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Speaker 4: the price of gas, make things less expensive. My answer

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Speaker 4: to that is it's a false choice. And the problem

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Speaker 4: isn't that when Biden got in, he had this process

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Speaker 4: of going after Trump. The problem is that they didn't

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Speaker 4: go after Trump enough and fast enough.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.

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Speaker 4: I feel the same about Hillary Clinton. The problem wasn't

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Speaker 4: she called these people deplorable. It's that she stopped calling

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Speaker 4: them deplorable. Right, right, right.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 4: look, I think Jack Smith's an American hero. Um, and yeah,

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Speaker 4: don't forget, you know, I work for the law and

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Speaker 4: order party.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: You know, and so now we're the like, let cop killers.

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Speaker 1: We're the crimes for white collar crimes. Aren't really crimes party.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Um, so, uh, look, I think there's been a series

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Speaker 4: of sort of, uh, Despicable hearings that remind me of, like,

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Speaker 4: the Red Guard.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: It was that way with Dr. Fauci. Right. And the

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Speaker 4: idea they're going after Jack Smith, who probably, if he

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Speaker 4: took every Republican on that panel and added their IQ together,

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Speaker 4: it would be less than Jack Smith's. Right. You know, it's...

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Speaker 4: I don't think this helps... In a sense, why are

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Speaker 4: they doing now is an interesting question. I don't think

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Speaker 4: it helps them at all. No.

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Speaker 1: So what happened during this hearing was that Senator Schmidt,

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Speaker 1: who was the, I think he was the AG of

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Speaker 1: the state, right? He comes from AGs, I think, Republican AGs.

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Speaker 1: He was doing this gotcha, this like long gotcha soliloquy,

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Speaker 1: which had poster boards. I believe that once we start

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Speaker 1: getting out the poster boards, we're almost always in trouble.

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Speaker 1: But basically the net net of it was that he

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Speaker 1: had been to the Jack Smith. And this is like unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: that Jack Smith had been to a sporting event in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta the day after Fannie Williams admitted that she had

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Speaker 1: had an affair with someone who had worked on her team.

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Speaker 1: And somehow this one-day difference meant that Jack Smith had

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Speaker 1: been colluding with them. So already pretty tangential, but it

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Speaker 1: turns out they had confused the names. It had been

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Speaker 1: the Hawks versus the Seahawks or something. You know, it

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Speaker 1: had been some kind of— so was it actually Jack Smith?

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Speaker 1: Was it a game? But it was a totally different

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Speaker 1: game in Maryland for a totally different team that had

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Speaker 1: a name that was just tangentially the same as the other.

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Speaker 1: And Amy Klobuchar came in, and I think— that what's

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Speaker 1: interesting about Amy Klobuchar is she really like leans into the,

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Speaker 1: like being a bitch thing in a way that I

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Speaker 1: think really works for some female politicians. And so she

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Speaker 1: was basically like, so Schmidt was wrong and then Schmidt

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Speaker 1: sort of loses it. And, uh, then he goes on

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Speaker 1: the Charlie Kirk show and said, and just lies and

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Speaker 1: says that he didn't make this mistake.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I, you know, it's really, uh, It's sad for

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Speaker 4: the country. But, you know, for those of us who

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Speaker 4: worked in the Republican Party, it's really painful that it's

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Speaker 4: come to this. The Republican Party has become, among other things,

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Speaker 4: the anti-higher education party, the anti-year advance through college, and

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Speaker 4: has become this conspiracy that higher education leads to socialism,

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Speaker 4: which I think about every time I go to the

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Speaker 4: Ole Miss Alabama game. Like, yeah, a lot of socialists here.

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Speaker 4: And that is a trait of extremist movements. They always

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Speaker 4: go after the intellectuals first. Red Guard, Khmer Rouge, Bolsheviks.

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Speaker 4: But again, you just have to ask yourself, look, they're facing...

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Speaker 4: Potentially catastrophic defeat. The one thing every campaign has exact

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Speaker 4: same amount of is time. And you want to dedicate

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Speaker 4: time and attention span to this? Like, why?

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Speaker 1: Why?

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Speaker 4: What do they think they will get out of it except,

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Speaker 4: I suppose, to please Trump. Yeah. But so what now?

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Speaker 4: I mean, the guy's reduced to going to campaign in

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Speaker 4: states that he won by like 25 points.

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Speaker 1: I have a question for you about that. So Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump is going to states that he won, but he's

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Speaker 1: also doing this thing, which I would love you to

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Speaker 1: explain to me because I don't quite understand what it is.

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Speaker 1: So Byron Donalds, you may remember him running in Florida

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Speaker 1: for governor, took the Trump references off his website. And

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Speaker 1: then Donald Trump said, Byron, I really close. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to come and rally for him. Make it make sense.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think it's like, you know, fuck you. You

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Speaker 4: think you can get rid of me. Here I come.

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Speaker 4: You know, the problem with all of these people trying

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Speaker 4: to suddenly decide that, you know, they're really not for

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Speaker 4: Trump is that we knew them before they were versions.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: And you can't spend, you know, years either voting with

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Speaker 4: Trump north of 95 percent, which all these people did,

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Speaker 4: or supporting him. And think that, well, all right, look,

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Speaker 4: people are just going to forget that.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: But, you know, it's a look into the future. It

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Speaker 4: is going to be, I would say, in the summer

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Speaker 4: of 2029, it is going to be more people who

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Speaker 4: will say that they've been to the lost continent of

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Speaker 4: Atlantis than they supported Donald Trump. Yeah. And it'll be like, what? No, no, no.

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Speaker 4: And the Republican Party is going to try to just

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Speaker 4: move past this. And it's not going to be able to.

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Speaker 4: You can't undo this. And look, I think Jolly can

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Speaker 4: win Florida.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about this. We have.

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Speaker 3: J.D.

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Speaker 1: Vance and Donald Trump. crisscrossing the state. I'm not convinced

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Speaker 1: that J.D. Vance helps. Like, Donald Trump, I get the

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Speaker 1: idea he's coming to rally his base, and that is

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Speaker 1: a legitimate, at least, I mean, I don't know that

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Speaker 1: it's what it was, but it's still someone. Who are

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Speaker 1: the J.D. Vance voters?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, go back to when he was on

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Speaker 4: the ballot. The only time he's been on the ballot

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Speaker 4: by himself. Right. And when he ran for the Senate,

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Speaker 4: he won that nomination at the last minute with Peter

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Speaker 4: Thiel's $ 17 million. replaced my old client, Rob Portman. So

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Speaker 4: he was on the ballot with a popular Republican governor,

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Speaker 4: Mike Duan, and J.D. Vance got 400,000 fewer voters. I

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Speaker 4: would have thought that was, just in a political science sense,

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Speaker 4: absolutely impossible. That means 400,000 people went into the box

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Speaker 4: to vote for a Republican governor, and they couldn't just

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Speaker 4: go down and check I don't know who this guy is,

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Speaker 4: but I'll be for him.

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Speaker 1: Right. Which is most, I mean, how unusual is that?

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Speaker 4: That seems very unusual. No, they have an undervote of that.

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Speaker 4: I don't know any precedent for it. Look, J.D. Vance

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Speaker 4: is one of these weird accidental figures that spring up

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Speaker 4: in American life.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Like Ted Kaczynski or something, you know? I mean, it's, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Ted Kaczynski, let the record show not elected to anything.

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Speaker 4: Go on, yes. Maybe, you know, having four names by

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Speaker 4: the time he's 28, maybe the idea that you tried

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Speaker 4: to present yourself, as this hillbilly when you were a

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Speaker 4: suburban Ohio kid who was on the golf team. Right.

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Speaker 4: But what I find most extraordinary about J.D. Vance and

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Speaker 4: most despicable is, say what you will about most politicians,

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Speaker 4: they will not attack their own family. But J.D. Vance,

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Speaker 4: not a problem. He's against the 14th Amendment. Well, dude,

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Speaker 4: that's your wife is a citizen because of the 14th Amendment.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: Goes on talking about the great glory of heritage Americans,

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Speaker 4: whatever the fuck that is. And you look at his

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Speaker 4: kids and no one's going to think those are Kentucky

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Speaker 4: coal miners. And he talks about how if a family

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Speaker 4: moves in next door from a different culture, they don't

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Speaker 4: really speak English, that it's okay to be uncomfortable and

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Speaker 4: not like them. Well, that would be his in-laws. So,

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Speaker 4: you know, that's pretty amazing. And you just have to

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Speaker 4: ask yourself, when these kids grow up, and odds are

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Speaker 4: they're super, super smart kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: They're going to look at this and go, like, Dad, why?

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Speaker 4: Why are you making fun of immigrants? Because, like, grandmother

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Speaker 4: and grandfather are immigrants. It's really just so telling.

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Speaker 1: Let's just talk through the map right now. Iowa, Rob Sand,

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Speaker 1: way ahead. Turek now ahead. Kansas, the Roger Marshall problem

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Speaker 1: is a super interesting phenomenon to me because here's a

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Speaker 1: candidate who's really never had to run for office. And

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Speaker 1: now he's getting, you know, so he had so he

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Speaker 1: ran for office. He won having had been a doctor

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Speaker 1: who had jailed 81 percent, 81 of his patients because

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Speaker 1: they did not pay. They missed their collection fees. They

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Speaker 1: did not get to their court dates. But my favorite

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Speaker 1: part of the Roger Marshall story is this like caveat

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Speaker 1: that happens this today, which is so the candidate running

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Speaker 1: against him, the Democrat, who is. who is this preacher

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Speaker 1: from a megachurch but a liberal, runs this ad, right,

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Speaker 1: that shows that Roger Marshall has jailed this former patient

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Speaker 1: of his. And Roger Marshall pushes back and says it's

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Speaker 1: not true because she didn't actually get jailed for the $ 50.

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Speaker 1: She got jailed for not showing up in court. This

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Speaker 1: is like Streisand effect in an amazing way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is like the old trick in politics. You

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Speaker 4: accuse somebody of raising taxes. 10.8 percent and their defense

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Speaker 4: is no i only did it 10.1 percent okay fine

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Speaker 4: we'll be glad to correct the record um yeah um

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Speaker 4: look i you know it's a really fascinating race because

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Speaker 4: uh if democrats win there it's going to mean they're

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Speaker 4: winning everything on the bubble right um it's going to

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Speaker 4: mean that you're going to have democratic governors of alabama.

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Speaker 3: And uh doug jones yeah um.

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Speaker 4: You're going to have uh Democratic senator from Texas, all

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Speaker 4: these cases. And those years happen. 1980, on the Republican side,

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Speaker 4: was a year like that. The difference is Republicans really

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Speaker 4: had a bunch of ridiculous candidates who got elected, like

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Speaker 4: Paula Hawkins in Florida, who said that she was a

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Speaker 4: graduate of Navy War College because she'd been there for

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Speaker 4: the weekend. But the Democrats actually have good candidates, awful

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Speaker 4: interesting people. And so- It's possible. My feeling about polling

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Speaker 4: is the sort of reality check for polling is to

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Speaker 4: look out in the world and say, well, does this

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Speaker 4: make sense?

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: So I look at these numbers and go, well, yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, here in the Northeast, home heating is hitting

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Speaker 4: six bucks a gallon. Yeah. That's, I don't know, it

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Speaker 4: was $ 3. 20 18 months ago. You have diesel prices that

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Speaker 4: are just through the roof. gas prices, you know, it

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Speaker 4: costs you 90 bucks to fill up a car. And

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Speaker 4: you've got Donald Trump out there talking about this is

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Speaker 4: a golden era. I just don't know what the basic,

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you go back to like Contract with America,

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Speaker 4: which is sort of an overblown thing, but this is

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Speaker 4: not a bad, it's the language itself is not bad.

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Speaker 4: That's sort of a contract. You vote for us, you

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Speaker 4: get this. What is the, the contract that Republicans are

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Speaker 4: proposing for voters. What is the bargain? You vote Republican,

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Speaker 4: you're going to get what?

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: And, you know, I think the most distressing numbers, if

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Speaker 4: you can use that for Republicans, is the not Trump's

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Speaker 4: unfavorable job approval, but his very unfavorable versus his very favorable,

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Speaker 4: because that ultimately is what really moves numbers in politics,

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Speaker 4: which makes sense if you're, very favorable for somebody or

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Speaker 4: a lot more likely to actually turn out than if you, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm kind of favorable to them. So

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Speaker 4: the last numbers I saw Trump's very favorable was under 15%. Right.

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Speaker 4: And it's very unfavorable was hitting 50. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And what was it earlier in the, well.

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Speaker 4: You know, the seeking poll numbers like this, it's kind

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Speaker 4: of like the, the old, how do you go bankrupt? Right. Slowly.

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Speaker 4: And then all at once. Um, And there was, excuse me,

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Speaker 4: what's the floor here? So, you know, Trump gets down.

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Speaker 4: I bet, you know, I have to look at it,

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Speaker 4: but three months ago, I would bet that he had

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Speaker 4: a very favorable of close to 20%, 24%. And it's just,

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Speaker 4: what changes this? How do they do this? And more

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Speaker 4: Trump isn't the answer, obviously. I mean, if you really

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Speaker 4: wanted republicans to win and you had the power you

434
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 4: would tell donald trump you just built this new bunker

435
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 4: under the white house just go stay there come out

436
00:26:33,780 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 4: like after the elections um and you know they would

437
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,459
Speaker 4: do better right losing them votes every time he goes

438
00:26:41,540 --> 00:26:45,540
Speaker 4: out there um so it's like losing five dollars on

439
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,139
Speaker 4: every sale but you think you're going to make it

440
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 4: up in volume right you know the math just doesn't

441
00:26:51,100 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 4: really add up so Look, I think it makes what

442
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,060
Speaker 4: Republicans did to the party and what they've done to

443
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,239
Speaker 4: the country. We're going to sort of are we going

444
00:27:06,270 --> 00:27:07,910
Speaker 4: to live in a world where there was never any

445
00:27:07,950 --> 00:27:13,490
Speaker 4: accountability for that? And I don't think we were. Yeah. And,

446
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:19,170
Speaker 4: you know, I said this before, if I ran a

447
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:21,790
Speaker 4: Democratic Party, I would go out and I would talk

448
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 4: about how we are going to win big. Not say,

449
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,340
Speaker 4: you know, this could be close to everybody. Wait, why?

450
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,020
Speaker 4: The advantages that you get by saying, join our movement,

451
00:27:33,619 --> 00:27:36,939
Speaker 4: we're changing America, this is it, it's our turn, is

452
00:27:37,010 --> 00:27:42,090
Speaker 4: so much greater than those who might be, well, okay,

453
00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:43,490
Speaker 4: I think they're going to win anyway, I'm not going

454
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:45,629
Speaker 4: to vote. I just don't think that's where the energy

455
00:27:45,730 --> 00:27:49,409
Speaker 4: is in this race. And I think Democrats should go

456
00:27:49,490 --> 00:27:51,869
Speaker 4: out and talk about it. We're going to win. We're

457
00:27:51,890 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 4: going to win. We're going to kick ass. We're going

458
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,540
Speaker 4: to win big. And we should win big.

459
00:27:56,180 --> 00:28:00,010
Speaker 1: Because what Trump is doing is really– I mean, the

460
00:28:00,070 --> 00:28:05,590
Speaker 1: thing that when you– people hate this. I mean, at

461
00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:07,890
Speaker 1: every point– the thing I'm struck by is at every

462
00:28:07,970 --> 00:28:10,930
Speaker 1: point when he was doing things, I was like, not

463
00:28:11,020 --> 00:28:13,699
Speaker 1: selling a war in the Middle East after saying you

464
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: would never do war in the Middle East. You're– you know,

465
00:28:17,660 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: you've got this insane tax cut for wealthy people that

466
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,650
Speaker 1: doesn't have any– It doesn't have anything that helps anyone.

467
00:28:26,790 --> 00:28:31,220
Speaker 1: You know, you are, you know, the Obamacare premiums expiring

468
00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:34,100
Speaker 1: and everyone's health insurance, you know, all these people's health

469
00:28:34,140 --> 00:28:40,580
Speaker 1: insurance going up like exponentially, you know, from $ 25 to $ 800.

470
00:28:39,620 --> 00:28:44,540
Speaker 1: I mean, just stuff that's completely, you know, bananas. And

471
00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:45,860
Speaker 1: people are mad.

472
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:47,180
Speaker 5: Yeah.

473
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 4: And, you know, I think we had these other disastrous wars. um,

474
00:28:53,060 --> 00:28:56,460
Speaker 4: in the middle East, but for the most part, if

475
00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:58,780
Speaker 4: you weren't in the military, you could ignore it. Right.

476
00:28:59,340 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 4: You know, when you filled up for gas prices, you know,

477
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,340
Speaker 4: and now with Iran, we really feel it very, very

478
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 4: strongly with gas prices. Um, and you didn't sit there

479
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 4: filling up your car and thinking, well, this is due

480
00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 4: to the battle of Fallujah. Now this, because this is

481
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,110
Speaker 4: what this insane war has done to us. Um, But,

482
00:29:20,210 --> 00:29:23,150
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, this is what else did they expect?

483
00:29:23,930 --> 00:29:25,890
Speaker 4: Did they really think that they could do all this

484
00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:29,870
Speaker 4: stupid stuff? They're not a governing party. And that's my

485
00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 4: other plea to Democrats. When you get in office, please,

486
00:29:33,780 --> 00:29:36,620
Speaker 4: please do not act like the Republican Party is a

487
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 4: party that's acting in good faith and that they will

488
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:45,380
Speaker 4: govern with you. No, no. These are people that put

489
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:51,270
Speaker 4: Pete Hexett in. They're not patriots. And I just think

490
00:29:51,330 --> 00:29:55,310
Speaker 4: that's so critical that they be about that. And someone

491
00:29:55,330 --> 00:29:58,530
Speaker 4: was saying, you know, Well, should it be about settling scores?

492
00:29:58,830 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 4: I kind of like settling scores. I'm not so sure

493
00:30:01,220 --> 00:30:05,500
Speaker 4: that's a bad thing. Settling scores is another way to

494
00:30:05,540 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 4: say we're holding people accountable.

495
00:30:07,420 --> 00:30:11,860
Speaker 1: So if Democrats flip the House and the Senate, it

496
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,110
Speaker 1: strikes me that one of the first jobs should be

497
00:30:17,150 --> 00:30:23,790
Speaker 1: the same thing that that that that. Speaker Johnson sent

498
00:30:23,870 --> 00:30:29,850
Speaker 1: everyone home for, which is impeaching Whiskey Pete, because he's

499
00:30:29,910 --> 00:30:32,950
Speaker 1: made a total mess of this war and he's fired

500
00:30:33,070 --> 00:30:37,270
Speaker 1: most of the people who know what's going on and

501
00:30:37,370 --> 00:30:40,150
Speaker 1: have really, I mean, we have our soldiers like on

502
00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:42,670
Speaker 1: these ships for nine months. I mean, the kind of

503
00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:45,550
Speaker 1: stuff he's doing seems, a lot of the stuff they're

504
00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:48,890
Speaker 1: doing is terrible, but like this seems actively harmful to

505
00:30:48,930 --> 00:30:50,270
Speaker 1: the United States military.

506
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,739
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, maybe putting the town drunk, his own

507
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,900
Speaker 4: National Guard unit didn't think that it was safe to

508
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 4: have him there after January 6th wasn't a great idea.

509
00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:04,729
Speaker 4: And I blame Roger Wicker for this. My old client

510
00:31:04,750 --> 00:31:08,270
Speaker 4: and friend had Roger Wicker told Donald Trump, look, there's

511
00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:10,530
Speaker 4: a lot of good conservatives. We're not going to appoint

512
00:31:10,570 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 4: the town drunk. Pick somebody else. Trump would have done it.

513
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:19,030
Speaker 4: He would have backed down. So, look, I think the

514
00:31:19,910 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 4: process here that we have to go through as a

515
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 4: country and the Democratic Party has to go through is

516
00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:30,060
Speaker 4: unique in our history because we've never had such widespread criminality.

517
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 4: And you have to erect a process that will hold

518
00:31:34,380 --> 00:31:37,300
Speaker 4: these people accountable. I think it is going to require

519
00:31:38,140 --> 00:31:42,340
Speaker 4: a unified effort by state attorney generals, just as the

520
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 4: tobacco settlement did, because Trump will pardon everybody. And there

521
00:31:48,340 --> 00:31:51,370
Speaker 4: has to be an effort Not just to go after

522
00:31:51,550 --> 00:31:54,150
Speaker 4: ICE agents, though. Right. You know, one of the first

523
00:31:54,170 --> 00:31:56,209
Speaker 4: things I would do if I got into Congress is

524
00:31:56,790 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 4: I would publish all the, put on data, public database,

525
00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:03,820
Speaker 4: every ICE agent's name. Yeah. You can find who's in

526
00:32:03,860 --> 00:32:06,140
Speaker 4: the Army. You can find who's in your local police force.

527
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,740
Speaker 4: You can find out who's in the FBI. Why, you know,

528
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 4: why do we have these mass death squads? Would they

529
00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:14,590
Speaker 4: have to be secret? Yeah. Because you can find every judge.

530
00:32:14,660 --> 00:32:15,610
Speaker 4: They don't know how to find it.

531
00:32:15,610 --> 00:32:16,390
Speaker 1: Yeah.

532
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 4: I think they need to do big stuff that is

533
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 4: both symbolic and meaningful. I think that I would vote

534
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 4: to cut off all funding for the executive branch.

535
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:27,220
Speaker 1: Yeah.

536
00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:31,660
Speaker 4: Let Trump come back. I would nationalize SpaceX and Starlink

537
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,940
Speaker 4: under the People's Procurement Act. Yeah.

538
00:32:34,530 --> 00:32:35,790
Speaker 1: That would make them really mad.

539
00:32:35,850 --> 00:32:36,590
Speaker 3: That would be amazing.

540
00:32:36,830 --> 00:32:40,810
Speaker 4: And, I mean, it's insane to have two critical national

541
00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:43,729
Speaker 4: security issues with a guy who, you know, the Wall

542
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:46,250
Speaker 4: Street Journal says, you know, uses drugs all the time

543
00:32:46,290 --> 00:32:47,050
Speaker 4: and sleeps with a gun.

544
00:32:47,660 --> 00:32:48,300
Speaker 3: Yeah.

545
00:32:48,380 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 4: That's not a great idea. So I hope they embrace

546
00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:00,140
Speaker 4: victory in a triumphant sense. Yeah. And not go down this,

547
00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:03,300
Speaker 4: we're just going to restore normalcy. Yeah. And people will

548
00:33:03,340 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 4: reward us, which was a logical thing to think, but

549
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:07,420
Speaker 4: we saw that with Biden, that wasn't the case.

550
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,310
Speaker 1: Didn't work. Stuart Stevens, will you please, please, please come back?

551
00:33:12,690 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. Great to see you.

552
00:33:15,730 --> 00:33:20,930
Speaker 1: Mahmoud Khalil. is an activist and the author of No

553
00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:25,110
Speaker 1: Leg to Stand On, Notes from Detention. Welcome, welcome, Mahmoud.

554
00:33:25,970 --> 00:33:27,190
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

555
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:32,030
Speaker 1: So when I first learned about your case, you had

556
00:33:32,070 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: been seized by the police in front of your pregnant

557
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:42,500
Speaker 1: wife and taken into detention. No one could find you.

558
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: Tell us what happened next, because that's really all any.

559
00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 3: Of us know.

560
00:33:47,490 --> 00:33:51,170
Speaker 5: So basically, you know, after being snatched, the building, the

561
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:53,470
Speaker 5: lobby of the building of my apartment, the last thing

562
00:33:53,530 --> 00:33:59,010
Speaker 5: I heard was DHS agents threatening my wife that they

563
00:33:59,030 --> 00:34:01,730
Speaker 5: would arrest her if she does not leave me. And

564
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:04,300
Speaker 5: then for the next about 48 hours.

565
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 3: I.

566
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: Just want to stop for one second. She is an

567
00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: American citizen, visibly pregnant.

568
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,779
Speaker 5: So for the next 48 hours, they wouldn't let me

569
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 5: contact her or my lawyers and You know, they took

570
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,310
Speaker 5: me to Federal Plaza in New York, then immediately to

571
00:34:22,370 --> 00:34:27,190
Speaker 5: New Jersey and the next morning to Texas, then to Louisiana.

572
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:29,150
Speaker 5: And I was like, just no one is telling me

573
00:34:29,230 --> 00:34:33,590
Speaker 5: anything really what's happening. And everything I could think of

574
00:34:33,670 --> 00:34:38,210
Speaker 5: is just like basically, you know, frightened about what happened

575
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:40,989
Speaker 5: like to my wife. I mean, I did not care

576
00:34:41,050 --> 00:34:43,890
Speaker 5: as much about like me. Of course, I was worried,

577
00:34:44,110 --> 00:34:46,610
Speaker 5: like what's happening? Am I going like, what do they do?

578
00:34:46,630 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 5: Because I a few hours after my detention or after

579
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:55,380
Speaker 5: my arrest, they presented these documents that I presented a

580
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,700
Speaker 5: foreign policy threat to the United States. So the question

581
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,650
Speaker 5: on my mind was like, what do they do with

582
00:35:01,670 --> 00:35:02,250
Speaker 5: the foreign.

583
00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:03,629
Speaker 3: Policy threat, you know?

584
00:35:05,489 --> 00:35:08,370
Speaker 5: And it's sort of like, that was like one of

585
00:35:08,450 --> 00:35:11,230
Speaker 5: the most difficult periods of my life. Just the fact

586
00:35:11,370 --> 00:35:16,580
Speaker 5: that you're always being told that, you know, When you

587
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,580
Speaker 5: get arrested, you get at least a call to your

588
00:35:18,620 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 5: lawyer or, you know, like presented to the court. And

589
00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:26,299
Speaker 5: in reality, what was happening to me, I was literally

590
00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:31,370
Speaker 5: being transported across the country without actually knowing.

591
00:35:31,170 --> 00:35:34,130
Speaker 3: Where or how or like what's happening to me.

592
00:35:35,250 --> 00:35:43,130
Speaker 1: Can you explain to us how you got to be

593
00:35:43,370 --> 00:35:45,230
Speaker 1: a target of this administration?

594
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 5: You know, I was one of tens of thousands of

595
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,420
Speaker 5: students across this country who refused to stay silent while

596
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,140
Speaker 5: their tax dollars, their tuition fees funded the killing of

597
00:35:57,219 --> 00:36:01,470
Speaker 5: Palestinians in Gaza and across Palestine, which is not a crime,

598
00:36:01,489 --> 00:36:02,310
Speaker 5: you know, it's that I.

599
00:36:02,310 --> 00:36:02,950
Speaker 3: Think to do.

600
00:36:04,350 --> 00:36:09,469
Speaker 5: And because of my, I would say my visibility in that,

601
00:36:09,570 --> 00:36:10,689
Speaker 5: in that moment, I was.

602
00:36:13,770 --> 00:36:17,730
Speaker 5: I was a negotiator between the between the Columbia administration

603
00:36:17,969 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 5: and the student protesters. And they sort of like, you know,

604
00:36:21,820 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 5: I was visible, I was talking to the media. And

605
00:36:25,940 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 5: when this administration came into power, they wanted to make

606
00:36:29,219 --> 00:36:32,210
Speaker 5: an example out of someone, an example out of me,

607
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:35,410
Speaker 5: so they can, you know, terrorize other people, chill the

608
00:36:35,450 --> 00:36:39,370
Speaker 5: speech of others, whether citizens or non-citizens. You know, now

609
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:42,910
Speaker 5: we are about 18 months after my arrest. The administration

610
00:36:42,989 --> 00:36:45,969
Speaker 5: never charged me with a crime. They never presented actually

611
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 5: any evidence that I committed anything wrong. When this ruby determination,

612
00:36:53,020 --> 00:36:56,980
Speaker 5: the foreign policy determination that my presence in the United

613
00:36:57,100 --> 00:37:00,900
Speaker 5: States posed a foreign policy threat and a national security threat,

614
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,739
Speaker 5: when it was challenged in court, then they scrambled to

615
00:37:04,780 --> 00:37:08,770
Speaker 5: bring any other any other charges against me and the

616
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:13,460
Speaker 5: best they could find was that they claim I missed

617
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,299
Speaker 5: to mention an internship on my green card application and

618
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,140
Speaker 5: I willfully misrepresented that which is also fabricated like it's

619
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:27,220
Speaker 5: all it's all in there about like you know my

620
00:37:27,260 --> 00:37:30,589
Speaker 5: green card application but that to me was like really

621
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:35,330
Speaker 5: shocking the extent that this administration would go to punish

622
00:37:35,610 --> 00:37:38,650
Speaker 5: dissents in this country. And this is why I felt,

623
00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:41,890
Speaker 5: you know, writing this book is very important. It is

624
00:37:42,110 --> 00:37:46,110
Speaker 5: to basically, you know, to raise the alarm. What's happening

625
00:37:46,190 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 5: behind ICE detention walls is a stain on this country's conscience.

626
00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:50,700
Speaker 3: For sure.

627
00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:54,420
Speaker 5: Though it's the Palestine exception, the idea or the fact

628
00:37:54,540 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 5: that free speech, the rule of law, the basic dignity apply...

629
00:38:00,830 --> 00:38:02,570
Speaker 5: to everyone except Palestinians.

630
00:38:04,210 --> 00:38:10,490
Speaker 1: Can you, when you were detained, jailed, for no reason,

631
00:38:10,510 --> 00:38:17,950
Speaker 1: with your civil liberties smashed, did you, were you able to, like,

632
00:38:18,250 --> 00:38:21,210
Speaker 1: did you get any eyes on what's happening to the

633
00:38:21,350 --> 00:38:22,810
Speaker 1: other people being detained?

634
00:38:24,010 --> 00:38:24,790
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

635
00:38:24,989 --> 00:38:30,770
Speaker 5: You know, what's happening behind ICE detention centers walls is horrendous.

636
00:38:31,010 --> 00:38:36,850
Speaker 5: It is literally a stain on the U.S. rule of law, constitution, consciousness.

637
00:38:37,650 --> 00:38:40,750
Speaker 5: And the moment you enter, you know, the facility I

638
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:43,390
Speaker 5: was in, Gina, Louisiana, in the middle of nowhere, literally

639
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:44,810
Speaker 5: the middle of nowhere, it's in the middle.

640
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:45,170
Speaker 3: Of a swamp.

641
00:38:46,270 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 5: You feel that you, you know, they strip you out

642
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:50,590
Speaker 5: of your rights. Like once you enter, you see a

643
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 5: different reality about this country that supposedly champions human rights

644
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,489
Speaker 5: and liberty and justice. But once you cross into an

645
00:39:01,690 --> 00:39:05,850
Speaker 5: ICE detention, literally the door, you see the opposite side

646
00:39:05,890 --> 00:39:10,660
Speaker 5: of what America is. And I met in detention, you know, fathers,

647
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 5: incredible fathers and workers who came here looking for safety,

648
00:39:15,180 --> 00:39:19,739
Speaker 5: for stability, only to be snatched off the street. I

649
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,660
Speaker 5: saw the conditions, you know, very bad conditions, but it's

650
00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 5: not about the conditions themselves. Like even if it were

651
00:39:25,420 --> 00:39:29,969
Speaker 5: a five-star hotel, it's still detention. They call it, they

652
00:39:30,350 --> 00:39:35,090
Speaker 5: civil detention. There's nothing civil about detention. It's still detention.

653
00:39:35,130 --> 00:39:37,270
Speaker 5: And a lot of these people, you know, when I

654
00:39:37,310 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 5: go into the visitation room, it's a facility, you know,

655
00:39:42,860 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 5: housing over 1,200 people. The visitation room is empty, is

656
00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:50,750
Speaker 5: always empty, because... no one of their families would dare

657
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:55,230
Speaker 5: to come visit them fearing that they would be also taken,

658
00:39:55,370 --> 00:39:58,630
Speaker 5: but also because it's so far. Like for me, for

659
00:39:58,850 --> 00:40:01,210
Speaker 5: my friends and my family to come visit me, they

660
00:40:01,250 --> 00:40:04,690
Speaker 5: had to take a full day flight because there's no

661
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:06,850
Speaker 5: direct flights to the nearest airport.

662
00:40:07,820 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 3: But it is designed to be- But it's set up

663
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:10,580
Speaker 3: that way.

664
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,580
Speaker 5: It is designed to be isolated because if the conditions

665
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 5: were a little bit better, people would fight their cases. Would,

666
00:40:21,940 --> 00:40:25,980
Speaker 5: you know, because to fight your immigration case, it would

667
00:40:26,020 --> 00:40:29,939
Speaker 5: take between six months minimum, the bare minimum, up to

668
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,740
Speaker 5: like a couple of years, if not more.

669
00:40:32,219 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 3: So they want people to give up immediately.

670
00:40:35,570 --> 00:40:39,390
Speaker 5: You know, the temperature was always, you know, cold, the

671
00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:43,969
Speaker 5: food was pretty bad, the lights were always on. They

672
00:40:43,989 --> 00:40:48,149
Speaker 5: wouldn't like, you know, there's a lot of these things

673
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 5: happening that, like, it could be better, easily could be

674
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,939
Speaker 5: better without costing any more money.

675
00:40:53,620 --> 00:40:53,819
Speaker 4: Right.

676
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: It was, it set up to be a sort of

677
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,580
Speaker 1: psychological torture, right? With the lights and the.

678
00:41:02,460 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 3: Exactly.

679
00:41:02,860 --> 00:41:05,980
Speaker 5: Because they don't want anyone to fight. And they want people, like,

680
00:41:06,020 --> 00:41:10,900
Speaker 5: just to sign their deportation orders and leave. And, you know,

681
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,340
Speaker 5: a lot of these people also felt, like, so betrayed

682
00:41:14,460 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 5: by just like the system, you know, I talk about Najeeb,

683
00:41:19,260 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 5: like a person who was snatched off his immigration court hearing,

684
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 5: like he was trying to fix his papers. He was

685
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 5: snatched off that hearing without warning, leaving behind a wife

686
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,340
Speaker 5: battling cancer with poor little kids. So how can I

687
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,819
Speaker 5: console that person? So literally, like when I entered these

688
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,630
Speaker 5: detention centers, Molly, like I felt You know, my story

689
00:41:42,670 --> 00:41:45,150
Speaker 5: was the saddest, you know, like I never committed a crime.

690
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:48,170
Speaker 5: I came here the right way, quote unquote, on a visa.

691
00:41:48,190 --> 00:41:50,990
Speaker 5: I got a green card and a lawful permanent residence.

692
00:41:51,790 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 5: But then, you know, I was like, wow, like, you know,

693
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,419
Speaker 5: I'm lucky, actually, like at least like people know my name.

694
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:01,660
Speaker 3: I have some lawyers there.

695
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 5: You're lucky if you have one decent lawyer. Yeah.

696
00:42:06,580 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: No, I mean, that is, that is, I mean, that is,

697
00:42:15,090 --> 00:42:20,589
Speaker 1: that is the really, really, really scary and disturbing part

698
00:42:20,610 --> 00:42:25,129
Speaker 1: of the story is that absolutely, it is just sort

699
00:42:25,170 --> 00:42:30,510
Speaker 1: of shocking. I would love you to talk about what

700
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:34,660
Speaker 1: happened to you next. So, One, I think the sort

701
00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:39,790
Speaker 1: of best thing that in some ways is that you

702
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:48,469
Speaker 1: did create an enormous storm around your being jailed and kidnapped.

703
00:42:48,890 --> 00:42:50,940
Speaker 1: So talk us through what happened next.

704
00:42:51,860 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 5: So next, it was literally the Trump administration trying to

705
00:42:56,620 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 5: bring the full weight of the Justice Department to deport me.

706
00:43:01,260 --> 00:43:03,550
Speaker 5: So that way, until now, we're still dealing with this.

707
00:43:03,620 --> 00:43:07,690
Speaker 5: You know, I got out after a federal judge declared

708
00:43:08,090 --> 00:43:12,469
Speaker 5: that the Ruby determination was likely unconstitutional and thus.

709
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:13,390
Speaker 3: I should be released.

710
00:43:13,770 --> 00:43:18,549
Speaker 5: This Ruby determination was not used ever for someone like

711
00:43:18,570 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 5: with a green card in my situation since its inception.

712
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 5: In fact, that power was in a 1952 law that

713
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:31,490
Speaker 5: was created to prevent Jewish refugees or Jewish immigrants from

714
00:43:31,550 --> 00:43:35,150
Speaker 5: coming into into the United States. So we had we

715
00:43:35,170 --> 00:43:37,089
Speaker 5: had to deal with that. And I, you know, I'm

716
00:43:37,130 --> 00:43:39,970
Speaker 5: so grateful. I, I had like an army of lawyers

717
00:43:40,030 --> 00:43:43,489
Speaker 5: who were helping me out to to get out. But

718
00:43:43,530 --> 00:43:46,170
Speaker 5: until now, you know, like, we're still fighting, we're hopefully

719
00:43:47,070 --> 00:43:51,410
Speaker 5: going to the Supreme Court, because the government is insisting

720
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:58,020
Speaker 5: that No independent court, no Article 3 federal court has

721
00:43:58,060 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 5: jurisdiction or has the right to look into my case.

722
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:06,540
Speaker 5: And they want only an immigration court to look into it.

723
00:44:06,660 --> 00:44:09,780
Speaker 5: And we all know what immigration courts are. They are

724
00:44:09,820 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 5: kangaroo courts. They are fully controlled by the Trump administration or,

725
00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:17,010
Speaker 5: to be more accurate, fully controlled by the attorney general.

726
00:44:17,830 --> 00:44:22,710
Speaker 5: The immigration judges are not real judges. They are only employees.

727
00:44:23,330 --> 00:44:27,509
Speaker 5: acting at the behest of this administration. So, you know,

728
00:44:27,530 --> 00:44:30,700
Speaker 5: like the Trump administration tried to dehumanize me for speaking

729
00:44:30,820 --> 00:44:35,399
Speaker 5: out against the genocide. And they tried, like, you know,

730
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,980
Speaker 5: the fact that I'm Palestinian, then I'm not worthy of

731
00:44:38,020 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 5: the protections that this country, you know, affords to everyone here.

732
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:43,779
Speaker 3: And we are.

733
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,219
Speaker 5: Insisting on the fight. And I'm fighting on multiple fronts.

734
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,779
Speaker 5: You know, I'm suing the government and at least, you know, three,

735
00:44:51,820 --> 00:44:56,570
Speaker 5: four lawsuits and suing also Columbia University for its role

736
00:44:57,410 --> 00:45:00,090
Speaker 5: in making this.

737
00:44:59,690 --> 00:45:00,570
Speaker 3: Happen, in fact.

738
00:45:01,130 --> 00:45:04,230
Speaker 1: Say more about Columbia University's role in this because this

739
00:45:04,310 --> 00:45:06,129
Speaker 1: is particularly horrifying.

740
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:09,470
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say, you know, Columbia University laid the

741
00:45:09,489 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 5: groundwork for my targeting by the Trump administration through its

742
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:21,990
Speaker 5: deliberate indifference and discrimination efforts. aimed at intimidating Palestinian students.

743
00:45:22,090 --> 00:45:26,609
Speaker 5: So for more than two years, I and other Palestinian

744
00:45:26,670 --> 00:45:31,190
Speaker 5: students plead with the university for equality and protection. I

745
00:45:31,790 --> 00:45:35,290
Speaker 5: even asked, you know, again and again, up until the

746
00:45:35,330 --> 00:45:38,029
Speaker 5: day ICE took me, like there was an email I

747
00:45:38,090 --> 00:45:42,770
Speaker 5: sent to Columbia president just one day before my arrest,

748
00:45:42,810 --> 00:45:44,550
Speaker 5: like I need protection.

749
00:45:45,150 --> 00:45:48,950
Speaker 3: Columbia did not act. Instead, Columbia.

750
00:45:49,570 --> 00:45:55,250
Speaker 5: fueled a very dangerous rhetoric that vilified Palestinian students, vilified

751
00:45:55,330 --> 00:46:00,220
Speaker 5: their allies. And when Trump came into power, you know,

752
00:46:00,739 --> 00:46:05,540
Speaker 5: Colombia basically traded us away. They harbored the actors that

753
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:11,219
Speaker 5: doxed us, that smeared us on, you know, on the internet.

754
00:46:11,380 --> 00:46:14,860
Speaker 5: So that's why I'm suing like university, Columbia University and

755
00:46:15,340 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 5: you know, the SIPA dean, Karen Yerimelo, for their just

756
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:23,270
Speaker 5: gross and systematic discrimination against Palestinian students at Columbia.

757
00:46:24,930 --> 00:46:28,710
Speaker 1: But you also can sue the United States government because

758
00:46:28,750 --> 00:46:32,790
Speaker 1: there is no precedent for, I mean, there is no

759
00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:36,210
Speaker 1: legal leg to stand on for disappearing people.

760
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:39,380
Speaker 3: Yeah, I am suing the U.S.

761
00:46:39,460 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 5: Government under the Federal Tort Claim Act for malicious activities prosecution,

762
00:46:45,860 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 5: for warrantless arrest, for literally disappearing me, and for all the,

763
00:46:51,739 --> 00:46:55,779
Speaker 5: I would say, the unlawful actions that they did against me.

764
00:46:55,820 --> 00:46:58,860
Speaker 5: So this is one of the cases against the government,

765
00:46:58,890 --> 00:47:03,110
Speaker 5: but also I'm suing them for conspiring with private actors

766
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:07,330
Speaker 5: to deprive me and others of our basic rights, of

767
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:11,230
Speaker 5: our freedom of speech, of our freedom, just like liberty.

768
00:47:12,010 --> 00:47:14,750
Speaker 3: So that's also another case because You.

769
00:47:14,690 --> 00:47:19,779
Speaker 5: Know, in a separate case, a Reagan appointee judge, federal judge,

770
00:47:19,930 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 5: found that government officials, namely Rubio, Stephen Miller, and back

771
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:33,029
Speaker 5: then the DOJ... Kristi Noem. Kristi Noem, they conspired. That's

772
00:47:33,090 --> 00:47:35,470
Speaker 5: what the judge said. They conspired to gather.

773
00:47:35,489 --> 00:47:42,180
Speaker 3: Tambande. Yeah, to... to deprive us from our rights.

774
00:47:42,260 --> 00:47:44,500
Speaker 5: But not only for that, they wanted to chill the

775
00:47:44,540 --> 00:47:47,580
Speaker 5: speech of others. So no one would speak out against,

776
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,100
Speaker 5: you know, the US support to Israel. But also, you know,

777
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,739
Speaker 5: we all know how these, the chilling effect would work

778
00:47:54,820 --> 00:47:58,629
Speaker 5: because they start with, they started with me, the Palestinian,

779
00:47:58,670 --> 00:48:01,950
Speaker 5: but then they went after the journalists. They went after

780
00:48:02,530 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 5: the law firms. They went after federal funding for universities.

781
00:48:06,940 --> 00:48:11,500
Speaker 5: They went after everyone who disagrees with or who they

782
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,660
Speaker 5: think is a threat to their ideological project of what

783
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,100
Speaker 5: America should be or should look like.

784
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: Mahmoud, can you personally sue like Stephen Miller?

785
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:31,819
Speaker 5: So that's one of the parts where we're using the

786
00:48:31,860 --> 00:48:38,660
Speaker 5: federal tort claim because we're suing them in their official capacities.

787
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,460
Speaker 5: But on the conspiracy, actually, we're suing them in their

788
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,859
Speaker 5: personal capacity because we're suing them under the KKK Act,

789
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:51,700
Speaker 5: an act that was brought really to dismantle the institutional,

790
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:55,620
Speaker 5: not only bias, but attack on the rights of the

791
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 5: Black people. And in that act, you can sue personally.

792
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,489
Speaker 5: But that's the limits of the law when The worst

793
00:49:02,550 --> 00:49:05,259
Speaker 5: thing that could happen to officials in this administration is

794
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,820
Speaker 5: a judge telling them, you know, no, maybe you shouldn't

795
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:09,260
Speaker 5: do this.

796
00:49:09,540 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 3: That's it. There isn't like consequences. There isn't accountability.

797
00:49:12,620 --> 00:49:16,750
Speaker 5: Even the money that if I succeed in my lawsuits,

798
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:20,230
Speaker 5: it would be tax dollars money. That's why I'm promising... them,

799
00:49:20,450 --> 00:49:24,149
Speaker 5: you know, like to give it actually to the communities.

800
00:49:23,650 --> 00:49:25,750
Speaker 3: That are struggling with this administration.

801
00:49:27,310 --> 00:49:29,770
Speaker 5: And that's why I'm continuing to seek it because accountability also,

802
00:49:29,810 --> 00:49:33,989
Speaker 5: you don't get it only through the court. I get

803
00:49:34,050 --> 00:49:38,529
Speaker 5: accountability through, you know, people finally waking up to what's

804
00:49:38,570 --> 00:49:45,460
Speaker 5: happening and actually, you know, voting in progressives or candidates

805
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 5: who would stand up for what's right, who can subpoena

806
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 5: these individuals, who can hopefully in the future hold them

807
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:56,270
Speaker 5: accountable for all the crimes, for all the cruelty that

808
00:49:56,750 --> 00:49:59,050
Speaker 5: they have been committing since coming into power.

809
00:50:01,290 --> 00:50:05,650
Speaker 1: How are you? Like, you've been through a pretty scary,

810
00:50:05,710 --> 00:50:08,029
Speaker 1: I mean, my grandfather was jailed in the House of

811
00:50:08,050 --> 00:50:11,989
Speaker 1: Non-American Activities. He went to jail for three months. He

812
00:50:12,170 --> 00:50:15,529
Speaker 1: wrote about it. And I've read a lot about it. And,

813
00:50:15,570 --> 00:50:18,390
Speaker 1: you know, one of the books is that I've read

814
00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:22,529
Speaker 1: is this book by Victor Novaski, who was the editor

815
00:50:22,550 --> 00:50:26,170
Speaker 1: of The Nation, about how just traumatic it is to

816
00:50:26,210 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 1: go to jail and to have your rights taken away

817
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: from you. You didn't even get to, like, go to jail.

818
00:50:32,620 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: You were snatched. You were kidnapped. I mean— How traumatic

819
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,900
Speaker 1: is it for you? Are you still like, do you

820
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,700
Speaker 1: still sort of relive that? I mean, are you, where

821
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,030
Speaker 1: are you in the process of like trying to heal

822
00:50:44,070 --> 00:50:45,490
Speaker 1: from that? Yeah.

823
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:46,870
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.

824
00:50:47,010 --> 00:50:51,690
Speaker 5: It was, you know, a very traumatic experience that, you know,

825
00:50:51,969 --> 00:50:56,700
Speaker 5: the country that promised me safety and stability. You know,

826
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:02,290
Speaker 5: I fled Syria. I you know, as there's a dictatorship when,

827
00:51:02,450 --> 00:51:07,469
Speaker 5: you know, two of my friends were disappeared where, and,

828
00:51:07,610 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 5: and later tortured and killed like under torture. So that's

829
00:51:12,540 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 5: why I fled and came to this country that promised

830
00:51:15,500 --> 00:51:19,020
Speaker 5: something different. And that's why I felt very betrayed when

831
00:51:19,060 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 5: this happened to me, especially to, you know, my wife

832
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 5: is an American citizen. She's, she's an incredible dentist who

833
00:51:26,020 --> 00:51:30,930
Speaker 5: always dreamt of building a stable life and, here in

834
00:51:30,969 --> 00:51:32,250
Speaker 5: her home country.

835
00:51:32,910 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 3: Also pregnant.

836
00:51:34,550 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, she was pregnant at that time. And at the

837
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 5: end of the day, I'm a human being.

838
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:41,500
Speaker 3: I'm not a hero.

839
00:51:41,540 --> 00:51:49,540
Speaker 5: I'm not a superman. And all this takes toll. But Molly,

840
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,750
Speaker 5: this fight isn't only about whether I get to stay

841
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:55,530
Speaker 5: in this country.

842
00:51:56,070 --> 00:51:57,770
Speaker 3: It's about whether anyone in.

843
00:51:57,750 --> 00:52:03,390
Speaker 5: This country can speak out for palestinians without being punished

844
00:52:03,410 --> 00:52:05,509
Speaker 5: for it but in fact it is whether anyone in

845
00:52:05,530 --> 00:52:09,210
Speaker 5: this country can speak out full stop without being punished

846
00:52:09,810 --> 00:52:12,630
Speaker 5: um so that's why you know i take this fight

847
00:52:12,670 --> 00:52:15,529
Speaker 5: because it's way bigger than me than my family it

848
00:52:15,610 --> 00:52:19,290
Speaker 5: is about the um hundreds of thousands of family in

849
00:52:19,350 --> 00:52:22,149
Speaker 5: this and families in this country who are also going

850
00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:24,870
Speaker 5: through what i went through it's just like i was

851
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:27,609
Speaker 5: privileged i was lucky that you know i got this

852
00:52:27,700 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 5: media attention i i you know, I had all these

853
00:52:32,060 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 5: resources to help me out. But like a lot of

854
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 5: these individuals, they don't. But also my family is lucky because,

855
00:52:37,140 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 5: you know, there are thousands of families in Palestine who

856
00:52:41,469 --> 00:52:47,290
Speaker 5: are going under bombardments using US tax dollars, using, you know,

857
00:52:47,330 --> 00:52:52,730
Speaker 5: like Israel is starving them or raiding them.

858
00:52:52,750 --> 00:52:54,110
Speaker 1: Or has already killed them.

859
00:52:54,750 --> 00:52:55,270
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

860
00:52:55,330 --> 00:52:57,830
Speaker 5: So to me, you know, like I take I take

861
00:52:57,870 --> 00:53:03,330
Speaker 5: whatever I'm going through with that attitude. To me, as

862
00:53:03,610 --> 00:53:07,070
Speaker 5: a Palestinian who's now in the United States, I'm again

863
00:53:07,140 --> 00:53:10,700
Speaker 5: privileged that I know that my son would be fed tonight,

864
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,660
Speaker 5: unlike the hundreds of thousands of kids in Gaza and

865
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 5: across Palestine whose families are not sure whether they would

866
00:53:19,620 --> 00:53:20,419
Speaker 5: be fed or not.

867
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,980
Speaker 1: No, I know. But still, it's not how any of

868
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,580
Speaker 1: this is supposed to be, right?

869
00:53:27,110 --> 00:53:27,649
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.

870
00:53:27,690 --> 00:53:30,299
Speaker 5: And that's why we're fighting. At the end of the day,

871
00:53:30,340 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 5: I'm fighting because I believe in the premise of this country.

872
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 5: I believe that there is potential. I believe that we

873
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 5: can change things so everyone can live, you know, like

874
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:49,380
Speaker 5: as the Constitution promised, that life, dignity, liberty, and the

875
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 5: perspective of happiness. That's why I'm fighting this fight.

876
00:53:53,580 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

877
00:53:55,140 --> 00:53:58,180
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Molly. Thank you. We appreciate your time.

878
00:54:00,380 --> 00:54:03,170
Speaker 3: And now, your moment of suffering.

879
00:54:03,790 --> 00:54:04,710
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon.

880
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 2: Molly, we got to talk about the Cornell 7. This

881
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:13,620
Speaker 2: is a crazy, crazy story going back to 2024. And

882
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,140
Speaker 2: it looks like the sexual assault investigations could be reopened

883
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,390
Speaker 2: by the Tompkins County District Attorney.

884
00:54:19,410 --> 00:54:20,629
Speaker 3: This is a terrible story.

885
00:54:20,690 --> 00:54:23,009
Speaker 1: This is one of the worst things I've read in

886
00:54:23,070 --> 00:54:28,550
Speaker 1: a long time. Basically, a woman filed a lawsuit accusing

887
00:54:29,110 --> 00:54:31,049
Speaker 1: that she was plied with alcohol and drugs and then

888
00:54:31,110 --> 00:54:35,339
Speaker 1: raped by multiple men at this fraternity house. when she

889
00:54:35,380 --> 00:54:40,420
Speaker 1: was 20. She reported it to Cornell University Police Department,

890
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:46,140
Speaker 1: and they never filed charges by the prosecutor. The attorney

891
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: general said in a statement on Monday that he was

892
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,060
Speaker 1: reconsidering the decision. I would say this. I would not

893
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: give these people any credit, and I would continue, the

894
00:54:56,660 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: only reason this has gotten reconsidered It's just like Epstein, right?

895
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,630
Speaker 1: The only reason that this is getting any attention is

896
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:09,109
Speaker 1: because of public outrage. And I do think that the

897
00:55:09,210 --> 00:55:13,610
Speaker 1: more public outrage we keep going, the more likely this

898
00:55:14,030 --> 00:55:23,739
Speaker 1: is to get more attention. It is just an absolutely terrible, terrible,

899
00:55:24,060 --> 00:55:24,860
Speaker 1: terrible thing.

900
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,420
Speaker 3: Just awful, awful, awful, awful story.

901
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,770
Speaker 1: And this is not people doing the right thing. This

902
00:55:31,870 --> 00:55:36,710
Speaker 1: is the American people's outrage getting them to do the

903
00:55:36,770 --> 00:55:40,469
Speaker 1: bare minimum. And that is why I would say no

904
00:55:40,550 --> 00:55:44,850
Speaker 1: one should let up on this because it's really, really bad.

905
00:55:44,910 --> 00:55:48,509
Speaker 1: And it shows just how this, you know, how the

906
00:55:48,550 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: America we live in right now does not really care

907
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,810
Speaker 1: about victims. We are in a period of post me

908
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:58,990
Speaker 1: to backlash. And when we and when you say, like,

909
00:55:59,110 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: what are the effects of that? Things like this are

910
00:56:01,540 --> 00:56:05,060
Speaker 1: the effects of that, where a girl comes and has

911
00:56:05,140 --> 00:56:09,140
Speaker 1: had been raped by multiple men and Cornell has them

912
00:56:09,180 --> 00:56:10,020
Speaker 1: write essays.

913
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

914
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:15,469
Speaker 2: And a lot of what the allegations are towards the

915
00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:18,029
Speaker 2: people in power in Cornell is that they didn't want

916
00:56:18,390 --> 00:56:19,990
Speaker 2: this horrific story.

917
00:56:19,950 --> 00:56:23,290
Speaker 4: To be a big deal and get A lot.

918
00:56:23,150 --> 00:56:25,210
Speaker 2: Of publicity because people would be scared to send their

919
00:56:25,230 --> 00:56:30,170
Speaker 2: children there. And their resistance towards accountability of this is

920
00:56:31,010 --> 00:56:32,989
Speaker 2: kind of strides ending it a bit as well.

921
00:56:33,610 --> 00:56:36,870
Speaker 1: Yeah, and good. I mean, these people deserve everything they

922
00:56:36,910 --> 00:56:41,739
Speaker 1: get here. And the appropriate behavior would have been close

923
00:56:41,780 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: down the fraternity, kick out the kids, make sure that

924
00:56:45,580 --> 00:56:50,950
Speaker 1: they are prosecuted for gang rape. And instead what happened

925
00:56:50,969 --> 00:56:53,529
Speaker 1: was they had to write essays and life went on

926
00:56:53,590 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 1: and they tried to suppress this. And like, it's just

927
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,899
Speaker 1: an insane way to operate. And when we talk about

928
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,380
Speaker 1: Me Too, what we're talking about here is women to

929
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 1: feel safe, is for women to be able to feel

930
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:08,980
Speaker 1: safe in college, to be able to go to a

931
00:57:09,020 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 1: fraternity house and not get raped by multiple men. And

932
00:57:13,380 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: that is not too much to ask.

933
00:57:17,180 --> 00:57:19,930
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially also what's, Not too much to ask is

934
00:57:20,390 --> 00:57:24,170
Speaker 2: a more thorough investigation to see what would happen and

935
00:57:24,190 --> 00:57:25,590
Speaker 2: make sure accountability is done.

936
00:57:26,430 --> 00:57:30,850
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

937
00:57:31,210 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

938
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,980
Speaker 1: minds in politics make sense of all this chaos. If

939
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

940
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,700
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.