WEBVTT - Folkloric Cats of the British Isles 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.760 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:14.840 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.000 name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And it 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.400 is Cat Week here on Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.960 So chosen because August eighth is apparently International Cat Day, 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.639 or has been since around two thousand and two, thanks 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:33.840 to the International Fund for Animal Welfare that's IFAW dot org. 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.839 They're involved in a vast array of animal welfare and 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.720 conservation products around the world, and that includes. 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.880 Cats and telling you when it's a cat related holiday. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.360 That's right, right. I believe International Dog Day is actually 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.760 later in the month. So if some of you out 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:51.600 there are like, well, we need equal time for dogs, 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.080 write in and demand it and we can do the 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.680 same treatment for dogs. We have tons of dog related 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.600 topic ideas that we haven't gotten to yet. 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.679 Now wait, somehow we decided we're doing a whole week 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.600 of cat themed stuff. What's going on? Where'd that come from? 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.280 Rob? Well, just I like the idea of doing theme weeks. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.080 So we actually got a couple other theme weeks related 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.399 to other things that are not pets. So I don't know, 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.119 I like a good theme keeps us disciplined. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.280 So you know, if listeners out there have any ideas 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.600 for other theme weeks that you would like write in 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:27.680 and let us know. But today is going to be 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.080 about cats. All the episodes this week are about cats, 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.720 one way or another, and in today's episode, we're going 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.560 to return to a topic that we previously discussed with 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.959 a focus on Japanese traditions supernatural cats, only this time 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.160 we're going to draw from the rich folk traditions of 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.800 the British Isles. They have quite a few to select from. 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:48.280 We're not going to be able to get to them all, 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.320 of course, but we've picked out a few of them here. 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.400 And we should note that, of course, as far as 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.480 the house cat goes in Britain, these seem to date 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.920 back at least to the Roman occupation. And then of 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.280 course then we also have wildcats in the British Isles 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.880 as well, and those of course predate the Romans, and 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:08.359 so a lot of the stories we're going to be 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:10.560 talking about here today, you can kind of, like I guess, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.160 you can sort of pick and choose, like how much 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:16.399 of this is inspired by traditions involving the domesticated cat. 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:21.080 How much of this is involving traditions about wildcats, and 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.519 then you know the melding of the two. 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.720 That gets especially funny when some of these monster cat 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.200 stories do not specify the size. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:29.360 Of the cat. 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:34.320 Yeah, So throughout research for this episode, you know, in 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.200 learning about cats that killed one hundred and eighty men 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:41.600 or killed famous folk heroes, I certainly was in a 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:46.320 mindset of like the Beast of Cayirbannag from Monty Python 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:48.680 in The Holy Grail, where it's a regular size bunny 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.640 that attacks and kills. I was thinking about a regular 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:52.239 sized cat. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.120 The sources don't say that. Yeah, I think with a 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.040 lot of these stories, you have to sort of think 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.880 about these varying inspirations. Like you can definitely think of 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:04.959 about various actual wildcats. You can then think about sort 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:09.640 of cryptids and wildcats that were supposed to exist or 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:13.480 thought to exist by some, and then of course just 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:18.280 purely mythological imaginings as well. But even if you're just 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.680 limiting things to the domestic cat, being around a domestic 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.919 cat is in and of itself kind of a contemplation 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.240 of these different dimensions, because a domestic cat that never 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.840 leaves your home. At times acts like this comforting little 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:37.440 snuggle buddy, other times like a vicious hunter, other times 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:41.440 like some sort of strange specter of the night, eyes 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.000 twinkling in the dark. So you know that experience alone 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:47.760 lends itself to a lot of these ideas. 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.440 Oh, I didn't tell you this yet, but just yesterday 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.640 last evening, my daughter for the first time got too 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:56.280 full on like hold a kitty cat. 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:57.200 Oh. 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.640 She's been very cat brained for some time now, at 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.160 least the past six months to a year or sometime, 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.320 and that she thinks about cats a lot, talks about 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.920 them a lot, and of course sees them sometimes when 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.400 we visit friends who have cats. But last night we 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:12.800 were walking. We were out on a walk in her 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.200 neighborhood and a neighbor who we know has a cat 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.400 because she walks around the neighborhood with the cat in 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.080 a mesh backpack kind of carrying it. If you've seen 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.440 one of these, yeah, it's like a little sort of 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.000 playpen with mesh, So she's seen the cat before that way. 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.279 But our neighbor brought the cat out for her to hold, 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.760 and she just sat there beaming like her eyes literally 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.839 were emitting light. It was a very special time, but 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.400 I was but I was thinking about monster cats while 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.520 while that was going on, and just turning my mind over. 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.880 You know what savagery lay in the intentions of this beautiful, 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.520 pitiful little creature in my you know two year old 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:48.480 daughter's arms. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.080 Well that they scratched, so there is always the threat 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.719 of the scratch. This one was being gentle. All right. Well, 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:01.080 I want to start by talking about a particular cat 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.839 that I actually don't have a lot on this one, 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.400 but it's going to lead into some more lengthy discussions. 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:11.240 But there's one that comes to us from Celtic traditions 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.760 that is known as the cat she. It looks like 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:19.680 catsith as it's often spelled, but I'm to understand this 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.240 is pronounced cat she or something close to that that 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:26.880 I'm unable to actually capture. So this is sometimes described 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.760 as a black cat that is about the size of 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.240 a large dog, and it's said to have a white 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.039 mark on its front, and visual depictions of this it's 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.680 often it's often a white mark on the cat's chest. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:45.680 According to Carol Rose and her Monster Encyclopedia books, it's 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.320 a rough, bristly creature and it's often seen arching its back, 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:54.800 so you know, classic Halloween cat scenario here, and she 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:59.000 points out that in scottis Highland traditions this is sometimes 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.200 thought to be the animal for of a witch. And 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.440 on that note, I do want to drive home that 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:09.880 a lot of the cat traditions in the British Isles, 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.680 and this implies elsewhere in the world too. Eventually a 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.200 lot of these pre existing pre Christian traditions eventually get 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:23.039 wound up in witchcraft lore that comes about much later. 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.720 So you know, these ideas of which is familiar as 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.120 being cats and so forth. 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:31.599 The grimalkin and stuff like that. 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.719 Yeah, yeah, And at times it can be difficult to 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.520 sort of remove all of that and trying to get 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:41.520 at the the the much older ideas of various supernatural 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.320 cat like beings. Now, as far as the cat she 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.880 itself goes, I've been having a hard time finding solid 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.960 sources for these traditions, and this can this is often 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.600 the case with you know, folk traditions. What are folk traditions? 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.919 They are often alive and carried on the tongue and 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.359 not always courted or recorded all that well in the 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:06.240 written form. But the cat she is sometimes associated with 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.440 the theft of the soul from the newly dead. Sometimes 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:14.720 the lore of nine Lives is mentioned when talking about 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.920 the cat she and again, like everything supernatural involving cats, 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.880 in these parts, it ends up factoring in details of witches, 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.360 and they're familiar as much later now. A related creature 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.160 that Rose brings up, though, is one that she refers 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.760 to as big Ears, a demonic cat with glowing yellow 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.680 eyes that in Highland traditions she says was summoned via 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:41.000 Satanic seventeenth century cat sacrifices known as the tam. Now 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.200 she uses the word Satanic here, and I have no 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.720 doubt that this is how some sources end up describing it, 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.320 because again you get into the Christian tradition and the 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.240 witchcraft persecution era, and it all gets retold and reframed. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.680 But apparently the Taguram might be more properly thought of 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:06.480 as an older Gaelic divination ceremony that when you dig 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.120 into it it often involves a hide and a river 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:14.120 bank or a waterfall, these implements used in order to 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.400 seek the guidance of an oracle, and then other times 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:21.720 it does involve the summoning of a supernatural cat. One 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:23.280 of the sources I was looking at here for this 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.960 is a paper from twenty ten by Andrew E. M. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:32.320 Wiseman titled Catterwauling and demon Raising the Ancient Right of 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.679 the Tegurum. This was published in Scottish Studies thirty five 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.360 and it gets into a great deal of detail here. 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.880 If anyone out there wants to do a much deeper 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.760 dive into this topic, I recommend this paper. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:45.360 So. 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:50.600 Wiseman discusses that historically authors tended to associate this particular 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.360 ride with the Isle of Sky, and at least one 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.320 historic author described it as a practice of an extinguished 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.920 race of wicked people. To summarize, so, it seems that 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:05.000 the hide ritual was all about seeking divination via a 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.360 person that has been forced into an altered state of 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:12.080 consciousness through some possible mix of sensory deprivation and agitation. 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.600 So the individual would be covered with a hide sometimes 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.680 described as a fresh hide, so like freshly cut from 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:23.760 a cow or something. And then by putting this hide 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:28.120 on your body, you're somehow suspended between life and death. Goody. 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:30.800 And then you would be placed in a remote spot, 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.800 perhaps on a riverbank or near a roaring waterfall, and 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.920 then perhaps poked or beaten with sticks of a particular 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:42.120 sort of wood, essentially terrorized until the question may be 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:48.040 put to you because you have now reached the oracular state. 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.400 So you're in this altered, agitated state, and they're like, okay, 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:55.320 he's ready, now ask him what we need to know 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:56.160 about the future. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.800 Interesting to imagine the practical pressure to and fabulate on 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:02.120 a person in that situation. 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:08.280 Yeah, yeah, In some ways, it's very different from our 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.120 modern ideas about altered states of consciousness, and even some 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.559 of the ancient ideas we may turn to involving oracles 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.760 and divination. You tend to think of an individual who's 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.160 in a very serene, calm environment. You don't think of 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.600 somebody wrapped in a hide and then beaten with sticks 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.000 on a river bank. But then again, there are countless 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:31.680 examples of altered states of consciousness that are achieved through 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:37.520 ritualistic means, both ancient and modern primitive that entail pain 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.040 or discomfort, So you know, there are other examples of this. 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.520 This is not something that stands entirely on its own here. 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.400 I guess the difference from the stories of that sort 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:49.599 that I'm familiar with is that would often be a 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:55.920 self imposed kind of denial of comfort or of pleasures. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.719 You know, I think of hermits or people living in 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.520 a lifestyle who, yeah, they might get into another state 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.280 by fasting or by doing something of their own will, 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.320 But here it's being imposed externally. They put a hide 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.520 on you and people beat you a poke with sticks 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.559 and take you out to the lonely place. That just 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.439 feels like a totally different dynamic. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.120 Yeah, and this may just be my reading of it, 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.959 but I'm not entirely certain what degree of agency the 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.600 would be oracle here had, Like I don't know if 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.880 you were and maybe this is just completely unknown if 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.400 you were selected for it or you were asked to 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.400 do it, or just what was the selection process like 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:38.280 for this, right? 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.480 Is it like, you know, it's not going to be fun, 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.520 but it's what I have to do to generate the 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.600 knowledge of the future or the information from the gods. 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:48.400 Or is it like this is what we do to 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.240 a prisoner to get knowledge of the future from them. 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.400 Yeah, yeah, so you can you can imagine it breaking 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:59.320 down in either direction. But some historians also associate this 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.440 or a similar practice with the Welsh, and it looks like. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.640 However you slice it, it certainly does seem to be 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.400 a pre Christian, perhaps Druidic practice. So I want to 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.800 read a quote here from Wisman where he sort of 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.920 summarizes some of these ideas about the tagaram. He says, 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.640 quote one can theorize that the methods employed in performing 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:23.959 the tagaram cause sensory deprivation or attenuation, and that this 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.880 in turn caused heightened mental awareness or consciousness, thus inducing 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:34.959 a trance like meditation receptive to higher or preternatural intelligences. 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.600 This type of method is common enough in shamanistic operations, 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.120 where there is need to heighten concentration to dull normal 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.440 sensory input control, breathing, and so forth, in order for 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.120 the desired effect to occur an alternate, usually higher state 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.320 of consciousness. Such a type of process may have in 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.240 fact brought the practitioner into contact with the workings of 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.959 the subconsciousness or higher self rather than incorporeal element. 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:02.920 Right, and this will be a familiar theme to longtime 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:04.760 listeners of this show. You know, there are plenty of 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:09.160 studies of different ways that people can achieve altered states 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.360 of consciousness, even basically psychedelic experiences without the use of drugs. 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.719 You know, you don't necessarily have to take acid or 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:20.120 mushrooms to induce hallucinations, and an otherwise mentally typical person 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.240 you can do it. It can happen with certain kinds of 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.640 sensory deprivation or certain kinds of sensory stimulation. We've talked 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.880 about how common it is for people to have hallucinations 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.160 if they simply look in a mirror in a dark 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:37.360 room for long enough or Yeah, sensory deprivation going into 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.520 total darkness will tend to cause hallucinations over time. Now, 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.640 of course, this is not necessarily talking about hallucinations. This 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.480 is just talking about various sorts of mental phenomena. Thinking 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.960 you're receiving messages or something. But that seems like you 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:51.480 could work by a similar mechanism. 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.000 Yeah, and I can also imagine this. This is taking 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.640 off as a new trend in Silicon Valley with vous 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:04.000 highly placed individuals. Instead of microdos thing psilocymin they just 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.960 they wrap themselves up very loosely in a hide every 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.520 morning and are at least lightly tapped. 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.319 With a stick, have their inns poked them. 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:24.320 Yeah, all right, so that's the hide side of the 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.600 ritual of the of the takaram. 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.600 But what about the cats? Yes, there is also the 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.120 summoning of cats, and Wiseman acknowledges that this practice is 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.440 not easily set alongside the hide rights without a fair 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.240 amount of work. So it does seem rather it's rather different. 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.040 And one way that he describes it is kind of 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.120 it's another rite that you could do sometimes to check 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.480 the work of the hide ritual. So like, we put 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.920 this individual through all this and we got them to 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.080 the oracular state, we ask them this question about the 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:55.920 future or about the you know, the will of the 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.160 gods or god, what have you. They gave us an answer, 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:00.920 But how do we know that is correct? Is there 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:05.880 perhaps another inhuman method that we could turn to in 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.560 order to also ask the question, and then we can 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:14.680 compare the answers. Okay, trust, but verify? Yes. Now, I 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.760 want to issue content warning here though I'm going to 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.520 be discussing historic animal cruelty and sacrifice in this section. 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.600 I absolutely understand if you want to skip ahead maybe 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.600 five minutes or so here, though I will keep descriptions 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.720 as PG as possible. Animal cruelty is indefensible, especially in 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.360 its most overt forms, but in cases such as this, 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.680 in which historical peoples seem to have engaged in it 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.400 for religio magical purposes, I imagine we should at least 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:44.560 try to place it within the context of the times 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.720 and try to imagine the perceived stakes involved. Again, none 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.240 of that makes it any easier to swallow, though. All right, 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.160 so you've been warned, I'm going to proceed here. So 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.520 what we're talking about here is go ahead and pull 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.800 off the band aid, roasting a live cat over a 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:05.400 fire after it has been like pierced, skewered through in 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.400 a way so as to not hit any vital organs, supposedly, 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.240 and you can also see why this practice was easily 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.760 interpreted within the context of witchcraft and devil worship as well, 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.560 like the sacrifice of an animal, the use of fire, 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.280 and so forth. But the idea here boiling it down. 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.480 And there are many different versions of this and many 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.400 different stories that involve it, but the basic idea seems 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:35.720 to be that by torturing like a small normal cat, 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.640 this might be like a wild cat that you've that 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.120 you've you've caught. By tormenting it, you would summon a 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:46.040 much larger, supernatural cat out of the darkness along with 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.000 its smaller kin, and then the question might be put 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.240 to this great cat or this king of cats in 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.600 exchange for the alleviation of the sacrificial cats suffering. 0:16:56.000 --> 0:17:01.320 WHOA That is grim logic but interesting. Yeah, yeah, that 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.520 you would think it worked that way, that the small 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:07.879 and pitiful beasts have large and magical patrons or cousins, 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.480 and that you can you can summon them to sort 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.520 of investigate the suffering of their kin. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.200 Yeah. Now, one thing, the one thing that I don't 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.280 have an answer to though, is, Okay, we've in talking 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:24.520 about the right involving the hide, carrying that out, You're 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.800 probably you're you're dealing with a human being, So you're 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.359 going to reach a point where that human being tells 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:33.800 you something. They are going to answer your question, either 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.680 because they've reached some state of altered consciousness or because 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:39.800 they simply want you to stop perhaps hitting them with 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:41.960 a stick, or they don't want to wear the hide anymore. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.719 With this, I mean, you're not going to actually summon 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.600 a great supernatural cat. You cannot summon that which does 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.160 not exist. I mean, I guess there are various ways 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.720 you could slice this. Maybe again, you're it's involving the 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.639 human imagination, Maybe that it involves just speaking to the 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.840 night and imagine the answer. Maybe it is a situation 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.600 where the calls of a cat that is being tormented 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.560 does call to other cats in the vicinity, and you 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.440 might see them or hear them and then somehow interpret 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.600 that for your oracle. I'm not sure. 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.800 Yeah, I don't have any special insight about this, but 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:22.720 my but my opriori guess would be that it would 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.000 it would yet again involve like somebody would be translating 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:27.960 from this being. You know, you might have a priest 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.920 or shaman of some type of figure who's saying like, ah, yeah, 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:32.960 here the here is the cat, and it's speaking to me, 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:34.040 and this is what it's saying. 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.959 Yeah. So uh, I'm gonna have less to say about 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.720 the actual cat torment moving forward, because I think we've 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.359 discussed that enough. But the stories about it, some of 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.720 these are rather interesting, and again there are many different accounts, 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.240 many different stories. The one that Wiseman shares tells the 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.840 story of a man named Ewan who undergoes the ritual 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.320 of the cat in order to find out this and 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.280 this seems great ironic what amends he needs to do 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.399 in order to write his past misdeeds. It's like, I 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.679 feel like I've done some terrible things in the past. 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.840 What can I do to make those better? I'm going 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:14.960 to torture this cat so that I can find out. 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:19.320 It's like if going to confession and a Catholic church involved, 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.120 you know, like bashing the priest with a glass bottle. 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.800 It's like, Father, I have committed some kind of sin. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:27.440 Sure what it is? Help me figure it out? 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.600 All right? So, in the context of the story here, yeah, 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.600 he turns to this this, this known right so that 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:36.840 he can find out what he needs to do. And 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.880 so he goes through the through all the steps, skewers 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.080 a cat, puts it over a fire, begins to slowly 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.280 roast this cat, which you know might be a Scottish 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:50.280 or European wildcat, but you know, I guess it doesn't 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.679 particularly matter. But he's he's torturing this cat, roasting it, 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.560 roasting it over the fire. It's turning over the fire 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.800 on a spit. And this does, in fact act draw 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.520 the attention of the Great King of the Cats and 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.760 his many feline attendants, and they kind of like swell 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.800 in number in the darkness outside of the hut where 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.040 he is carrying on with the spit and the tortured cat. 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.959 And interesting here it's described as a very tense ceremony. 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.919 So these cats have come with the intent to not 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:24.560 only free their fellow feline from torment, but to also 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:26.880 rip the human torture to bloody shreds. 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:28.200 Oh cat revenge. 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.480 Yeah. So it's described here that Ewan is terrified as 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:36.520 he's doing this, like these death is awaiting him outside. 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.520 But he knows that he absolutely has to quote keep 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.440 turning the spit or he's doomed, Like if he stops 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.800 turning the spit, then the cats will just descend on him. 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.520 And so, and this reminds us of various you know, 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.800 supernatural accounts where there's some sort of ritual involved, like 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.760 not breaking the magic circle or else the creatures that 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:58.240 you have summoned will destroy you. 0:20:58.480 --> 0:20:59.800 Yeah, don't open your eyes. 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.600 Yeah. So he keeps turning it, and then he treats 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.640 with the King of the cats and he asks the cat, hey, 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.919 what amends can I make for my wrongs in the 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.480 past and maybe a rather recent past, And he's told 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:17.200 to build seven churches, and so he releases the tormented cat, 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:22.520 and then the cat horde depart with the tormented cat. 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:24.480 They jump into the river, and they. 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.880 All swim away into the river. Huh, we'll get back 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.080 to this, right, This will become a theme. Yeah, but 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.399 a cat owner is out there. If you had a 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:35.840 cat in distress, do you think the first place it 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:38.080 would likely jump to would be into the water? 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:44.600 Probably not so. Wiseman discusses that these rights may relate 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:48.600 to ancient worship of cat based deities among the pre 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.920 Christian Celts. He also writes that while the origins of 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:58.720 this ritual are obscure, there doesn't seem to be a 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.920 direct ancient source of the practice quote, there are too 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:05.680 many liminal elements within the tradition to dismiss it as 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.040 something which could be described as relatively new. It has 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.240 been argued that cats were venerated during pagan times, and 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:16.040 then during medieval times cats came to be associated with witchcraft. 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:21.160 He also notes that these practices and Christian era witchcraft 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:26.200 hysteria apparently resulted in large scale cat sacrifices that may 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.679 have actually increased the severity of the Black plague. For 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:32.280 when the cats have all been sacrificed. Who is going 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:35.120 to kill the rat that carries the flea? Ooh wow, 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.680 so interesting food for thought there. Now there's no mention 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.280 in Wise Men of Big Ears. I'm not entirely sure 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.680