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Speaker 1: M Hey evernyone. This is Derrison Davis from It Could

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Speaker 1: Happen Here. For this week of episodes, the team has

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Speaker 1: put together a secestral group of episodes all focused on

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Speaker 1: the broad topic of the escalating war on trans people.

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Speaker 1: We'll cover historical background, the international turf movement, and all

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Speaker 1: the new anti trans legislation trying to be made into

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Speaker 1: law here in the United States. We won't have time

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Speaker 1: to cover everything. It's only five episodes, but we we

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Speaker 1: tried to cram more stuff in, and you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's we don't want to make episodes only two or

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Speaker 1: three hours, so I'm sure we'll we'll cover all these

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Speaker 1: topics more in the future, but we tried to create

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Speaker 1: five episodes here that kind of cover a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of our bases. Also, we've we've tried not

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Speaker 1: to make the episodes super depressing, because yeah, it's five

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Speaker 1: episodes based on a kind of upsetting topic, so we

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Speaker 1: tried to keep them more information based and throwing in

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Speaker 1: some jokes here and there, you know, but it is

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Speaker 1: still a fun, fun topic, so to keep keep that

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Speaker 1: in mind. But we've tried to try to space things

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Speaker 1: out and not make them too long and not too depressing.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, here is episode one of the

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Speaker 1: War on trans people. Welcome to it could happen here?

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Speaker 1: A podcast about things falling apart and in in the

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Speaker 1: case of this week, getting very angry at people doing

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Speaker 1: really shitty things, um to a specific subset of the population.

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Speaker 1: All right, Gary, See, isn't that every week? Well no,

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Speaker 1: sometimes we talk about other stuff like three D printed guns,

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Speaker 1: but that ties in Garrison take it from here. I'm

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Speaker 1: done for the week. Yes, So welcome to it happen here.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about well one of the big it could

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Speaker 1: happens here, is it? Yeah? In in in relation to

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Speaker 1: the ongoing war on queer people in general. Um and

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Speaker 1: how yeah, that sure seems to be like it's happening

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Speaker 1: so here here, right now. But before we get to

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Speaker 1: the actual right now points, I still I do want

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Speaker 1: to do want to do a little bit of background

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Speaker 1: on how it's kind of gotten to this point in

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Speaker 1: the past few decades and the variously precursors to the

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Speaker 1: current moment that has seemed to be really focused on

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Speaker 1: trans people specifically, But for a long time, a lot

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Speaker 1: of the focus was on protecting quote unquote the sanctity

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Speaker 1: of marriage, which was one of the one of the big,

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Speaker 1: one of the big talking points, and to help us

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Speaker 1: talk about this fun and engaging topic, I asked on

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Speaker 1: Karen and Eve from the Kitchen Table Cult podcast to

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Speaker 1: assist us in this horrible endeavor. Greetings, and I'm sorry, Okay,

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Speaker 1: yes we are. We are gays who grew up in

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Speaker 1: that universe. So yes, as as as was I, as

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Speaker 1: was probably a few other people on this this call.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, we we all we all have varying experiences

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Speaker 1: growing up in the evangelical movement. Um well also realizing huh,

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Speaker 1: maybe we are not straight to d orsi Is children.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, but we're gonna we're gonna, we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking about the kind of the escalating war and gay

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Speaker 1: marriage and how that kind of moves over to trans

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Speaker 1: people at a certain point, um and specifically talking about

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Speaker 1: kind of the combination of religion and politics, because this

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Speaker 1: is this is something I've discussed before on my two

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Speaker 1: part focus on the family episode, and this really is

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Speaker 1: going to tie into a lot of that stuff because

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of the same people. But I I

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Speaker 1: would love for everyone else to kind of fill in

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Speaker 1: the gaps where I have stuff missing, because I definitely

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Speaker 1: have a a good, good point on the Family Research

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Speaker 1: Council kind of side of things, and I would love

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Speaker 1: for people to fill in the gaps on the other

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Speaker 1: other kind of stuff. But yeah, we're gonna start off

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Speaker 1: for talking about Family Research Council um and that whole

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Speaker 1: kind of side of things, because I mean they, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: Josh Tucker is coming up. Don't both research and family

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Speaker 1: ways So this seems unproblematic. I'm gonna just mute things

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Speaker 1: from now on, and yeah, you guys continue in terms

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Speaker 1: of all of the save the children rhetoric. Yes, Josh

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Speaker 1: Josh Dogger will be coming up, so yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: do want to actually open up with a quote from

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Speaker 1: Mike Rosebush, who was the vice president of Focus on

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Speaker 1: the Family from thousand four UM and then a few

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Speaker 1: years ago he came out as a as a gay

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Speaker 1: and as a surprise so called affirming like christian who

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Speaker 1: like loves Jesus and endorses rights for gay people. He left,

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Speaker 1: He left slash, got fired from Focus on the Family.

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Speaker 1: Is he e s side A or side B? Does

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Speaker 1: he is he in favor of the celibacy model? Or

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Speaker 1: is he a show with marriage. He seems to be

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Speaker 1: excited about fucking okay, so he's being we like it

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Speaker 1: is definitely the better side. But I want to start

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Speaker 1: off with by by him just to kind of set

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Speaker 1: the stage for how how this type of thing kind

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Speaker 1: of really got got started, for combining, you know, the

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Speaker 1: evangelical kind of biblical world worldview with political organizing. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: going to read a quote here quote Dobson even more

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Speaker 1: so than focused on the family, and that's a that's

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Speaker 1: James Dobson, by the way, Um, Dobson, even more so

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Speaker 1: than focus on the family as an organization, strongly encouraged

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Speaker 1: all evangelicals to support and express their values in the

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Speaker 1: public arena. As background, before about nineteen seventy, evangelicals often

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Speaker 1: confined themselves within their own like cloistored communities. Political development

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Speaker 1: was viewed as a secular enterprise and suspect at best,

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Speaker 1: and this change during the Dobson era. He and others

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Speaker 1: encouraged evangelicals to learn and apply the biblical worldview. The

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Speaker 1: evangelical person was coached in applying the apologetics debate method

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Speaker 1: in publicly sharing the biblical worldview, voting in every local

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Speaker 1: and national election, became seen as a Christians do d

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Speaker 1: So at focus, I learned that the evangelical leaders like Dr.

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Speaker 1: Dobson considered the Republican Party to be the political machine

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Speaker 1: best equipped to endorse a biblical worldview. In delighted harmony,

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Speaker 1: Republican Party strategists salivated to win elections by securing the

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Speaker 1: evangelical vote. Thus a mutual agreement was formed. The plan

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Speaker 1: became that evangelical leaders would introduce a hot button issue

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Speaker 1: onto ballots and every local and state election, evangelical ministers

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Speaker 1: would provide voting guides on how to influence evangelicals to

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Speaker 1: vote for the only correct Christian choice. In turn the

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Speaker 1: elector candidate. Yeah, in turn, that elected Republican candidate would

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Speaker 1: champion the corresponding biblical worldview. And this strategy worked. And

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Speaker 1: what was the most reliable hot button to place on

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Speaker 1: the local and state voting ballots, Something that would ensure

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Speaker 1: evangelicals in mass to show up to vote the anti

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Speaker 1: gay rights bills. Gay rights were viewed by evangelicals as

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Speaker 1: a threat to the Biblical family and society in general. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of how I want to open up in

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Speaker 1: terms of kind of the shift in like the seventies

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Speaker 1: and eighties and especially in the nineties, from kind of

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Speaker 1: evangelicals being pretty divorced from political mainstream action to them

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Speaker 1: becoming a crucial part of the Republican machine, and this

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Speaker 1: kind of circle that completes itself at this at this

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Speaker 1: like at this point afterwards, because yeah, this combined with

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of save the children rhetoric and like

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Speaker 1: saving the family, like like the unit of the family

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Speaker 1: as a sacred thing to protect. It's really like that

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Speaker 1: that idea really carries over now into into into the

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Speaker 1: trans stuff because obviously they kind of lost a lot

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Speaker 1: of this stuff they wanted to do on gay marriage

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Speaker 1: after a long, a long fight, you know, decades and decades,

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Speaker 1: but it's still the same core idea at the heart

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Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, I just want to put an evergreen

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Speaker 1: footnote on all of that and say thanks and fuck

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Speaker 1: you to finish laughly for getting us down that road. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was like lame can definitely be passed around like

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Speaker 1: like originates there. Like I mean like before all of that,

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Speaker 1: like the evangelical church was not even united on the

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Speaker 1: idea of abortion being backed like like we have come

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Speaker 1: so far to merging these these universes in this really

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Speaker 1: a fact up little marriage that they got going on. No,

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Speaker 1: and and you can't you cannot divorce the ideas of

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Speaker 1: like the escalating war against abortion and then also like

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Speaker 1: with the save the children, like protect the family idea, right,

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Speaker 1: these these are the these are the same issues. Like

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Speaker 1: these these do go together in terms of people, you know,

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Speaker 1: making this like fake version of the family that they

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Speaker 1: are swearing to protect, whether that be from gay people,

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Speaker 1: or that be from you know, women's bodily autonomy or

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Speaker 1: you know, women's rights or like like feminism. All of

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Speaker 1: it's in the same is in the same package. It's

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Speaker 1: like that meme of like two pictures in camps, like

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Speaker 1: because I have the same picture. It's the same exact rhetoric.

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Speaker 1: And it's just like re skin slightly too for whatever

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Speaker 1: topic of the day. The the other other big thing

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Speaker 1: I want to mention before I get into Family Research

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Speaker 1: Council UM is the two thousand and four book A

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Speaker 1: Marriage Under Fire, Bye Bye by Dr James Dobson, which

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Speaker 1: was definitely one of the one of the other kind

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Speaker 1: of key points in escalating these idea of the culture

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Speaker 1: war UM. And you know that that type of that

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Speaker 1: type of like more like almost like tactical rhetoric. It's

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Speaker 1: all yeah, it's it's it was definitely, it was definitely

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Speaker 1: a turning point. Remember at the same time when Fireproof

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Speaker 1: came out. Oh I think so, Yeah, it happened close. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Fireproof and all that came out between two thousand and

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Speaker 1: four and two thousand and six seven, so that was

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Speaker 1: all around the same time period because they were losing,

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Speaker 1: like you said earlier, they were losing the battle against

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Speaker 1: right because that was that was around the time Queer

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Speaker 1: I was coming out. That was when they were starting

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Speaker 1: to get nervous that maybe they couldnt stop this particular

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Speaker 1: like like forward slide. But yeah, like on on the

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Speaker 1: back cover of their Robert You has something to say. No,

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking back to that period of time

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Speaker 1: when it it seemed positive progress in that regard seemed

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Speaker 1: inevitable and unstoppable. Yeah, I think the note on martial

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Speaker 1: language as used for this is really important here, like

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Speaker 1: this is a battle, it is under fire, like that's

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Speaker 1: that is something that was definitely imployed on that point.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read a little bit of the back

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Speaker 1: cover of a Marriage under Fire. Here we go in

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Speaker 1: this succinct analysis of the issue. Dr James Dobson, for

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Speaker 1: that's a compelling case, Like it's the legalization of marriage

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Speaker 1: between homosexuals at the dire ramifications our nation could face.

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Speaker 1: Same sex marriage will destroy the fundamental principles of marriage,

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Speaker 1: parenthood and gender. Families will be increasingly unstable as their

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Speaker 1: definition expands to incorporate multiple moms or Dad's in quotation marks.

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Speaker 1: Legalization of gay marriages will lead to polygamy and other

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Speaker 1: alternatives to one man, one woman unions. The divorce rate

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Speaker 1: will be higher, making our children less safe. Marriage under

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Speaker 1: fire provides the foundations of a battle plan for the

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Speaker 1: preservation of traditional values in our nation. Our response cannot

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Speaker 1: be clearer. The well being of the family and thus

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Speaker 1: our nation hangs in the balance. Now the time to

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Speaker 1: speak out in defensive marriage and the American family. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is particularly the battle plan, right. You know. One

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Speaker 1: thing I really loved during this time was the like

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Speaker 1: libertarian Christian response to this kind of conversation where they're

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Speaker 1: just like or we could just you know, not have

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Speaker 1: marriage beachied to the state at all, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yea that I do remember that this is the like

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Speaker 1: this is the backup plan for like okay, if like

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Speaker 1: if marriage, you know, gay marriage goes forward, then we

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Speaker 1: can just like do that if we want to, you know,

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Speaker 1: just like completely eliminated. No, absolutely, yeah, I absolutely remember

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Speaker 1: that that type of rhetoric. Even even yeah, even around

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Speaker 1: when like the Supreme Court cases we're going forward, they

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Speaker 1: were like really set on like this is like you know,

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Speaker 1: last resort. We have to fixture that make sure that

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Speaker 1: it like like like church marriage is just completely separate,

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Speaker 1: which even that that still is the case, and like

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Speaker 1: like a lot of places like churches is still a

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Speaker 1: lot of states like reserve the rights to uh not

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Speaker 1: married people, um, and you can only you can do

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Speaker 1: it through the courts, but not through the church. There's

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Speaker 1: also the subtext in that that I think should be unpacked,

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Speaker 1: which is that the multiple moms and dad's kind of

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Speaker 1: image that's given is not a signal of like the

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Speaker 1: non traditional family being bad, but more of a There

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Speaker 1: was this myth that was pushed really hard in the

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Speaker 1: conversion therapy circuit that like if you didn't have a

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Speaker 1: good father figure, you were going to be gay. You're

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Speaker 1: you know, if you didn't have a good relationship with

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Speaker 1: your mom, you're going to be gay. So like having

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Speaker 1: this as like this, these coded statements in there are

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Speaker 1: giving the clue of like we're trying to stop the cycle.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to not create more gay kids. Um, and

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Speaker 1: that's why this is important. Yeah. I was reading a

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Speaker 1: lot earlier today from the Heritage Foundation because I remember

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Speaker 1: them being a key start it. It was so bad,

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Speaker 1: and their whole thing was like, you have to have

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Speaker 1: a mother and a father otherwise everything is terrible. And

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Speaker 1: then you get gay kids, and that also lights like

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Speaker 1: goes into the whole other theory that was like well,

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Speaker 1: which I think Robertson either made up or repeated. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was like, well, people who are gay were abused

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Speaker 1: as children. Yeah, that is that is definitely when I

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Speaker 1: mean then of course all these all these evangelicals are

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Speaker 1: also all like beating their kids, were abusing your child

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Speaker 1: because they were gay or because I mean I was

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Speaker 1: and I am, But I don't think. Yeah, the related

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Speaker 1: in the sense that you being gay is is the

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Speaker 1: is that we'll be one of the triggers for the parents,

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Speaker 1: but it's not the cause of relationship runs the opposite direction,

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Speaker 1: right exactly. Anyway, we're gonna take a break and hear

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Speaker 1: from all of our lovely sponsors who don't support child abuse.

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Speaker 1: Probably well, I mean unless it's unless it's which which

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Speaker 1: does you know does run that island off the coast

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Speaker 1: of Indonesia where you can hunt children for sport? But

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Speaker 1: we prefer not to see that. I don't think, Robert,

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Speaker 1: I think you have to bleep that. No, Garrison, We're

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Speaker 1: not going to bleep an ad. That's it. Sponsors. This

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Speaker 1: show was child hunting Island, which you cannot say that

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Speaker 1: is designed to do every week more kids. Um, well,

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Speaker 1: it's designed to make happier billionaires. Yeah, there's nothing. There's

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Speaker 1: nothing Elon Musk clubs more than hunting children on his

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Speaker 1: at a private island reserve off the coast of Indonesia.

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Speaker 1: And and like Elon Musk, you two can hunt children

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Speaker 1: if you bube anyway, here's here's yet. Yes, we we

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Speaker 1: are back, and now we're gonna we're gonna move on

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Speaker 1: to probably the most unfun portion of the show today.

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Speaker 1: Um f r C, the Family Research Council. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: actually talk about like what they are, what they did,

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Speaker 1: and how they're kind of important in the evolution of

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Speaker 1: rhetoric and various other stuff. So yeah, Family Research Council

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Speaker 1: emerged from a night White House conference on families that

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Speaker 1: James Dobson kind of co led with the President of

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Speaker 1: the United States. So that's fun. Um. Yeah, So he

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Speaker 1: he met and prayed with a group of like eight

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Speaker 1: Christian leaders at a Washington, d c. Hotel, ultimately leading

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Speaker 1: to the creation of the Family Research Council UM, under

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Speaker 1: the direction of a Gerald region Er. That's how that's then,

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Speaker 1: that's how I'm gonna say it. That's what I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: say his name because he doesn't respect so I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to google it. Um and it uh, it became

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Speaker 1: a division to focus on the family, and like the

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Speaker 1: late eighties under a Gary Bowyer UM. And the reason

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Speaker 1: there's a who buch of like complicated like tax stuff

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Speaker 1: because focused on the family can't get too political because

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Speaker 1: then it'll like sacrifice their tax taxing extempt status. So

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Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of really shady stuff happening in

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Speaker 1: between Family Research Council and focus on the family proper

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Speaker 1: and not doing any lobbying. Yeah, in terms of like

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Speaker 1: who runs what and like what cross over there is

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Speaker 1: with like the leadership. They're basically the same organization, but

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Speaker 1: they are like legally separate and kind of have different

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Speaker 1: like operating strategies. Um, but they really are, like to

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Speaker 1: be fair, lots of words to do this, this is

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Speaker 1: not unusual. No, it's it's it's not unusual, but like

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Speaker 1: it's important to that. Like they basically are like like

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Speaker 1: they're they're very linked, like they are like like sibling organizations. M. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is uh, this is uh. The Gary Boyer, the

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Speaker 1: guy who took over in the late eighties of what

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Speaker 1: it was also the was the under Secretary of Education

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Speaker 1: and Domestic policy advisor to President Reagan. UM. So again

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Speaker 1: already like fully fully tied into like the Republican machine.

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Speaker 1: So um Boyer brought in several anti lgbt researchers who

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Speaker 1: pumped out like defamatory material about queer people. UM. Robert

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Speaker 1: Knight was a longtime conservative writer and journalist and the

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Speaker 1: kind of major propagandist against lgbt Q rights. He served

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Speaker 1: as the f f r c S Director of Cultural

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Speaker 1: Affairers in the nineties up into the early two thousands. UM.

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Speaker 1: While working there, he wrote, along with some focus on

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Speaker 1: the family editors booklet called the the Homosexual Behavior and Pedophilia.

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Speaker 1: This is a very very very common thread and all

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Speaker 1: their stuff is that gay people were abused as kids

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Speaker 1: and gay people therefore are like wired to also abuse kids,

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Speaker 1: Like it's part of this cycle that they like coopt

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of research on it, that they misrepresented,

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Speaker 1: that all of the researchers who did the actual stuff

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Speaker 1: was like, no, you're totally wrong. Yeah, it's it's there's

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Speaker 1: there's I talk I talked about this a little a

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Speaker 1: little bit and more in depth than the focus on

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Speaker 1: the family episodes for for bastards in terms of like

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Speaker 1: the actual research they used. Um, but yeah, it is uh.

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Speaker 1: In the what one of the remarkable claims inside the

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Speaker 1: booklet was was the assertion that quote one of the

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Speaker 1: primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish

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Speaker 1: all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles

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Speaker 1: as the profits of a new sexual order. So that's, uh,

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Speaker 1: that's great, that profits f I T, S P E,

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Speaker 1: P H Y s pH is just libertarianism and basically yeah,

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Speaker 1: basically yes, um, yes. The For some reason, you cannot

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Speaker 1: find this pamphlet on the f FARC website today. UM,

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Speaker 1: why ed, Yeah, so Boya left the group UM and

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Speaker 1: then FARC had two presidents UM and emerge and one

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Speaker 1: of the most one of them kind of resulted in

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Speaker 1: becoming the most powerful religious right lobbying group in the

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Speaker 1: country with tons of tons of policy researchers and writers

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Speaker 1: UM and a lot of a lot of like email

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Speaker 1: like email lists and like physical mailing lists was a

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Speaker 1: big part of their political organizing. You know, Eve and

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Speaker 1: Karen we have talked before about the effective power of

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Speaker 1: the rights mailing lists in terms of getting political change. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Conners was a Florida attorney and a leader in

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Speaker 1: the pro life movement. He served as president in the

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Speaker 1: early two thousand's. During his kind of tenure, um f

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Speaker 1: r c's agenda focused mostly on abortion and then also

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Speaker 1: a traditional marriage of other stuff was like religious liberty

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Speaker 1: which means Christian supremacy, not actual religious liberty UM. And

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Speaker 1: then like uh, like protecting parents rights right, protecting like

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Speaker 1: parental choice UM, which we'll we'll talk we'll talk more

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Speaker 1: like how do they define traditional marriages? This involving like

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Speaker 1: dowries and land transfers and treaties. I believe they just

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Speaker 1: I believe they want one man and then one woman

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Speaker 1: and the woman doesn't really need to actually want it,

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Speaker 1: but as long as the man wants it, then it's fine. Um.

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Speaker 1: And are they like the Catholics where they believe it

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Speaker 1: has to be for the purposes of procreation? Um, I

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Speaker 1: mean they're they're part of the mainstream evangelicals. Like there's

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Speaker 1: definitely there's like the court idea. So yeah, like they

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Speaker 1: are they are, they are for that. But it's I know,

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Speaker 1: it's it is. It's it's a very like patriarchal thing. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it depends things dumb here, but like the because

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Speaker 1: these are these are like important distinctions that need It

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Speaker 1: depends on congregation to congregation, right, Like like the kind

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Speaker 1: of the stuff that I grew up with wasn't super

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Speaker 1: focused on tons of on having tons of kids actually, um,

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Speaker 1: in fact that they kind of preferred just keeping it

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Speaker 1: capped off at two kids because you know, the more

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Speaker 1: kids you had, the less loyally were to the church

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Speaker 1: because you had to focus more on your kids. Actually,

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Speaker 1: So it does, it does. It does really depend on

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Speaker 1: congreggation to congregation. I think Family Research Council tried to

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Speaker 1: keep themselves open to lots of interpretations, so blets of

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Speaker 1: people can like glom onto their stuff. So they didn't

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Speaker 1: get super specific around like the rule of child rearing,

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Speaker 1: and that's anything it's important to note around that this time,

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Speaker 1: or a little before it was when John Paul's Theology

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Speaker 1: the Body was coming out, which is this tone um

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Speaker 1: that's basically getting into like why you know, the death

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Speaker 1: penalty you would be bad, and why abortion is bad.

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Speaker 1: And it's all this like sanctity of the body and

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Speaker 1: the body existing and then like the sanctity of sex

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Speaker 1: as for the purposes appropriation that was in the in

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Speaker 1: the atmosphere at this time. That was definitely a key

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Speaker 1: point is that sex is just for making kids. Like

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Speaker 1: that is definitely like a big, a big part of it,

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Speaker 1: which like they don't actually really believe, but they say

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Speaker 1: right because like if you look at all of like

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Speaker 1: the all of the extra like the people like all

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Speaker 1: like these leaders like are not like faithful to their

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Speaker 1: wives by anything, not an accidental side effect kids at

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Speaker 1: the point. No, yeah, um, but I think it is

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Speaker 1: like it is interesting like the amount of stuff that's around,

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Speaker 1: like parental choice and like parent rights, which will come

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Speaker 1: up over the course of the next few episodes of

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Speaker 1: the series. I'm right now at writing episodes about the

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Speaker 1: current like a book bandings going across the country and

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Speaker 1: a lot of those tied to liked like parents rights

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Speaker 1: over their children, um, like they decide what their children

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Speaker 1: gets to read. So it's all stuff I've never heard

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Speaker 1: of that before in my life. That's definitely not also

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Speaker 1: tied up with a bunch of the stuff happening in

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Speaker 1: Florida right now, it's definitely not the definitely related to

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Speaker 1: Mike Ferris at all. Yeah, and now, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: really like yeah, I mean this is sort of what

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Speaker 1: we're getting at, is that the modern anti trend stuff

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Speaker 1: is they're just playing all of the sort of greatest

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Speaker 1: chance of the anti Bay stuff like the bathroom and

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Speaker 1: the CRT stuff. Yeah, I don't worry. I'm planning to

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Speaker 1: tie this up in a nice in a nice little bow.

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Speaker 1: Sorry for jumping getting ahead of you. Just give me

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Speaker 1: like fifteen minutes and I'll do it. So um yeah.

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Speaker 1: Up next, we're talking starting to two US and three.

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Speaker 1: They change leaders again, and this is where they really

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Speaker 1: kind of evolved into their current form with Tony Perkins,

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Speaker 1: who became president that guy of the Family Research Council

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Speaker 1: in to us reading. Prior prior to that, he serves

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Speaker 1: two terms as a Louisiana state representative in the ninth

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Speaker 1: and even even even when he was president of Family

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Speaker 1: Research Counselor he served to two years as state representative.

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Speaker 1: He's also a former police officer UM and a television

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Speaker 1: news reporter. So overall just sounds like a quite quite

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Speaker 1: the dude. Um yeah he he he authored a whole

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Speaker 1: bun child, you know, like all these guys right in

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Speaker 1: tons of like Christian books they get published by like

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Speaker 1: weird Christian publishers. Um. He also served as the senior

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Speaker 1: pastor of a of a church in Maryland, UM called

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Speaker 1: the Hope Christian Church. He uh and he was he

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Speaker 1: was a leader of an effort by white and black

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Speaker 1: religious right preachers to work together against LGBT equality, specifically

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Speaker 1: like in like the East Coast in the South, that's

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Speaker 1: where there's so there's a there's a like cross organizing

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Speaker 1: between historically black churches. Of course not all of them,

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Speaker 1: but like the Perkins really tried to like reach out

431
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: on that front to get like that coalition going, which

432
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: was kind of unique at the time. So yeah, a

433
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: big part of of f r C strategy is to

434
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: pound home the false claim that queer people are more

435
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: likely to sexually abused children other than heterosexual people. Um,

436
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: this is uh, yeah, this is not not scientifically true.

437
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: You can look up like stats and you can look

438
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: up you can look at like American Psychology Association has

439
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: a lot of research on this topic because it was

440
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: such a big point in the early two thousand's that

441
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: people had to like talk about it. Yeah, so we

442
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: is all that's like one of these things that like

443
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 1: was a myth, you know, ambiently as a scare tactic

444
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: and a slippery so slope fallacy. But I think there's

445
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: also it has its roots in a particular misunderstanding of

446
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: Romans too, which is the passage that most people point

447
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: to as their anti gay rhetoric. And the context of

448
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: that is like most like centrist and liberal like Biblical

449
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: scholars will agree that that passage was more about the

450
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: pedophilia that was happening in the Roman Empire and speaking

451
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: out against that um and not specifically against like consulting

452
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: adults even even even even like the Old even even

453
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: in the Old Testament to a lot of new people

454
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: going into like the actual translations of stuff, and like

455
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: even like Leviticus, um, it is definitely pointing towards it

456
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: being about specifically like fathers not abusing their like like

457
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, like prepubescent like sons who are like more

458
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: like androgynous, Like it is specifically targeted like this type

459
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: of idea. It's not it's not against like gay men

460
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: who are like adults. Yeah, there's there's this theological conversation

461
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: on the right that was happening that kind of was

462
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: like trying to account for that historical context and was

463
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: like it's both. Clearly it's both because they go together,

464
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: right and obviously like we have to find a way

465
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: to justify demonizing gay people in order to protect the

466
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: sanctity of marriage. So we have still save the children

467
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: and multiple save the children. So Perkins has continued to

468
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: defend the kind of game and his pedophiles idea. UM.

469
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: He had a he had a televised debate on MSNBC

470
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: into in two usan ten about this um. So like yeah,

471
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that is like twelve years ago at

472
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: this point, but still two US and ten feels much

473
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: more recent than stuff, you know, talking about like the

474
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: late nineties, Um, yeah, debating with the Southern Property Law Center,

475
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: like on the issue of that now. Yeah. So. Some

476
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 1: other anti LGBT kind of propagandists at uh FRC includes

477
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: Peter Sprigg, who joined into us in one UM. He

478
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: authored the brochure called Top ten Myths about Homosexuality, which

479
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: was pretty popular around the time. UM. Such claims inside

480
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: the book conclude that like X, gay therapy or conversion

481
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: therapy works, sexual orientation can be change. Um uh, lgbt

482
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: V LGBTQ people are mentally ill because being lgbt Q

483
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: makes you ill, and that the sexual abuse of boys

484
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: by adult men is more common than can sensual sex

485
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: between adult men, which is not obviously not true. That

486
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: is quite I have questions, that is quite, so many questions,

487
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: that is quite quite. The stat um and like Springs,

488
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: sources are a mixture of like junk science is stewed

489
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: by groups that support conversion therapy UM and also legitimate

490
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: science quota out of context or cherry picked, which is

491
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: a long used tactic by anti gay kind of groups.

492
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: The bolster their bolster like their claims and their general

493
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: like rhetoric. Right if you mix in like a hint

494
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: of truth. It can make all of your outrageous stuff

495
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: seem more like legible. Um we knew that from the

496
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: screw Tape Letters. Yeah, like one of one of one

497
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: of his better books. I actually enjoyed the screw Tape Letters.

498
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: I think it's it's pretty fucking funny. It's good, but

499
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: also like just like an easter egg for those who

500
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: know what we're talking about, Like he was extremely kinky

501
00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: carry on. Anyway, one of the main researchers they kind

502
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: of misused research for was Judith Stacey, who was like

503
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: since issued lots of public statements condemning the condemning what

504
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, Family Research Council advocates for, and has endlessly

505
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: requested that anti gay groups to stop MR misrepresenting her work. Um. Yeah,

506
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: so we're gonna jump forward to two US and eight, uh,

507
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: because this is this is of course, the election of

508
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: Obama has really kind of frightened a lot of people.

509
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: This is when Dobson sent out that letter detailing like

510
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: what a post Obama future could be, in which he

511
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: included gay marriage as a part of like the dystopian

512
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: night Mary. He was imagining, this is the future people want. Yeah,

513
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: an interesting It was just an interesting thing on sprgue.

514
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: Here he was he was he was on MSMBC again,

515
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: which I mean, maybe we should stop, maybe we should

516
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: stop inviting these people onto news channels, but anyway, um

517
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: Spring responding, Spring responded to a question about allowing non

518
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: Americans same sex partners um of American citizens to immigrate

519
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: into the States by saying I would prefer that we

520
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: export homosexuals from the United States rather than import to

521
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: them UM and saying I think there would be a

522
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,719
Speaker 1: place for criminal sanctions on homosexual behavior um and then

523
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: when asked, so should we outlaw gay behavior, Springs said yes,

524
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: so yeah. It's it's like it's so very much clear

525
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: kind of mask off thing is that they just don't

526
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: they just don't want it around at all. And an

527
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: idea I'm going to tie this kind of more towards

528
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: towards the end of the series with the trans stuff,

529
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: is like the idea of queerness has like a contagion um.

530
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: These people having to like the brutality is justified in

531
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: their own heads because they it's like this idea that

532
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: queerness can spread and it can infect children, so you

533
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: have to you have to contain it. And any action

534
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: taken against it is justified because it's like you're containing

535
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 1: a virus and it's like this is really what kind

536
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: of makes them feel so justified and righteous in every

537
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: action they do. So yeah, clear out including outlaw and

538
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: gay gay people could have you know, exporting them from

539
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: the United States, you know, a blatantly fascist idea. So yeah,

540
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: um uh I. F oar C also worked unsuccessfully to

541
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: continue the don't ask, don't tell policy. Um this was

542
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: up until like two US and ten, so that was

543
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: that was a bit definitely another thing that they tried

544
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: to focus on. But the slide, you know, the progressive slide,

545
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: actually was happening around that time. Something interesting about that,

546
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: yeah earlier today. Yeah, oh yeah. So I was again

547
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: looking at Heritage Foundation because that was the Heritage Foundation

548
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: was like my big kind of go to when I

549
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: was growing up in the nineties and two thousands and

550
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: doing speech and debate and apologetics CAMPA and all that ship.

551
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: And um, I was like, well, what was their take

552
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: on donast don't tell? And they in the early nineties,

553
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: we're very very against it. Yeah, in ninety three they

554
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: had like this paper were published and they were very

555
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: against it. Because they were like, well, then you won't

556
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: then you'll still have gay people in the military. Yeah,

557
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: in the military, Yes, they're like they will. There will

558
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: be like it will be bad for the unit cohesion.

559
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: There will be sexual abuse, as if that wasn't already happening.

560
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: There will be like all of these terrible things happening

561
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: in the military that couldn't possibly happen, couldn't possibly be

562
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: happening otherwise it will like we can combat effectiveness is

563
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: the line that Family Research Council used. Yeah, so there

564
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: was definitely a shift in like the nineties where a

565
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: lot of these evangelical groups were against donuts don't tell

566
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: because yeah, it's still allowed gay people and just if

567
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: they didn't say anything. But then as they saw progress happening,

568
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, this is better than nothing like this,

569
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: this is better than them being openly gay. So they

570
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: kind of switched gears towards um which just you know,

571
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: they're just like grasping at anything they can um. I think,

572
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: what's time for another break and then we will kind

573
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: of finish this off with some other not fun information.

574
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, let's let's let's do. Let's let's do. Let's

575
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: let's do it at Let's let's see, let's see what

576
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: our our lovely sponsors AT has to say. Well, this

577
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: big thing is trying to get volunteers together to raid

578
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: it's child hunting island off the coast of Indonesia. Counter. Yeah, yeah,

579
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: you can. You can volunteer to go fight in Ukraine,

580
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: or you can volunteer to help take down it's child

581
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: hunting island so that you can run it. You know,

582
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: it would be fun to have all of the food

583
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: delivery services have their own private militias that take the world.

584
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,719
Speaker 1: We're moving towards garrison. I mean the post office already does,

585
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: so why not the Yeah, yeah, arm everybody. Everything should

586
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: be a military. That's the whatever podcast. This is here

587
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: and we're back and we are still talking about my

588
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: favorite topic. Just the Family Research Council. During the twelve

589
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: election cycle, they donated about two thousand dollars to eighty

590
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: federal Republican candidates UM, saying that they're using the money

591
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 1: to UH to strategically be used to support pro family

592
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: candidates and pro family issues and elections and valid incentives

593
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: across the country. Yeah. So this is just you know,

594
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, keep keep the keep keep

595
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: the pro pro family angle in mind. You know, this

596
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: is that they continuously were always donating money to two

597
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: US and twelve was the highest one on on record,

598
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: um and I think I don't think they've even matched

599
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: that since then. It was it was pretty high because

600
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: that was that was Obama's second term, So they were

601
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: definitely like trying to really really organize, right because this

602
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: this this is like right but right before when the

603
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: Supreme Court was going to be ruling on gay marriage

604
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: as well, so of course which digit didn't get finalist,

605
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 1: but they were starting to hear cases. We're gonna let's

606
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: we're going to kind of briefly go back to to

607
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: uh to James Dobson here just reference with people are

608
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: people who do not listen to the behind the bastards once.

609
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: He's an evangelical Christian author and self proclaimed psychologist who

610
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: who if you if you don't know who James Dobson is,

611
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: please preserve your innocence and just quit, like just go

612
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: enjoy it. Don't know now forever now, I just don't know. God,

613
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: I do. I do love the idea of a self

614
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: proclaimed psychologist. That's that's that's the energy to child psychologists.

615
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: It's just like I know what kids need. They need

616
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: to be on Hunting Island, you know. And and this

617
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: guy doesn't even believe in like child's avout, Like no,

618
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: he doesn't held development. But also you do know that

619
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: I'm getting a PhD in Paris psychology, right, I know, Garrison,

620
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: We're paying for it. Yes, this podcast is going to

621
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: have the highest rate of doc years of any podcast

622
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: on the internet other than the one that our friend does. Anyway,

623
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: I will be happy to be invited back onto Kava's

624
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: podcast as a doctor in paras psychology. I think I'll

625
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: be able to offer some really unique insights. Okay, anyway,

626
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: Um Bobson founded Focus of Family in nineteen seventy seven,

627
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: which is unfortunate because he could have just watched Star Wars,

628
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: but instead that is that is a key part of

629
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: this ideology. Um yeah, he was, he's he's a founding

630
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: He's a founding member of several um A t LGBT

631
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: hit groups, UM Family Research councilor being one of them.

632
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: Also a lot. He is a founder of Alliance Defending Freedom.

633
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, he got he got, he got two

634
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: under his belt. UM. The the organization which is now

635
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: based in Arizona, became a very powerful kind of fundraising

636
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: behemouth dedicated to fighting so called marriage like marriage quality

637
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: for for queer people and trans inclusive nondiscrimination protections. Um

638
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: and with a big part of the thing that they

639
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: were fighting for was enshrining a quote right to discriminate

640
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: against LGBTQ people in state laws, which is, you know,

641
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: all the stuff around like you know what if a

642
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: baker is forced to bake a cake for you know,

643
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: all of this nonsense is what so that that that

644
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: is so like that that that is that that is Dobson.

645
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: He started that kind of thing. Yeah, so I'm gonna

646
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna now have a little fun though, because when

647
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: we want to jump ahead a little bit just to

648
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: kind of get the rhetoric kind of nailed down on

649
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: what on what kind of house stuff, we're gonna start

650
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 1: shifting towards the trans stuff at this point. Um. But um,

651
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: after after the Supreme Court ruling for nationwide kind of

652
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: marriage equality, UM, Dobson has had this had this beautiful,

653
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: beautiful quote. I had this black cloud over me on

654
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: June twenty x when that decision was handed down and

655
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: I was contemplating this foreboding, this black cow to hit

656
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: me like a ton of bricks. The decision was not

657
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: really about gay marriage. It's not. It's about everything else.

658
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: It's about the entire culture war. It's about it's about

659
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,479
Speaker 1: control of the public schools, and it's about what's happening

660
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 1: in universities. It's about the economy, and it's about what businesses,

661
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: and it's about the military, and it's about medicine. It's

662
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: about everything. We lost the entire culture war without one decision.

663
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: The gay marriage thing was just a part of it.

664
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: But it's gonna touch every dimension. So I wish that

665
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: was true. But in terms of yes, in terms of

666
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: kind of how this gets expanded to like businesses, schools, universities, medicine,

667
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: I just love the histrionics is that they started kind

668
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: of focusing on in terms of like, well, we lost

669
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: this culture war. I guess we got to move onto

670
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: the next one, which is, you know, the even more

671
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: freakish thing, which is, oh, kids wanting to kids realizing

672
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: that maybe they have a different views on gender. So

673
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: that's the next kind of like rotating target that that

674
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: that they that they move moved towards. So yeah, UM.

675
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: Earlier that year, Dobson laid bare his his fundamental confusion

676
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: on what it means to be a LGBT UM. He

677
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: claimed on his radio show that being bisexual meant that

678
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: you have orgies, which I mean not ye yes, yes um.

679
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: He also blamed uh in two thousand and twelve, he

680
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: also blamed the two US in twelve Sandy Hook massacre

681
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: on queer people because because NA the nation turned turned

682
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: their back on God, it allowed it allowed judgments to

683
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: fall on us, which is why I said that that's happened.

684
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,479
Speaker 1: That's one of the interesting splits in the right between

685
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 1: the people who think it's fake and the people who

686
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: thought it was queer people's fault. Yes, yeah, it's because

687
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: of the evidence. Yeah, they've all come back together now,

688
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: but it was. It was a real, it was real split.

689
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,479
Speaker 1: And one of one of the other great things about

690
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: Dobson is so after my Behind the Bastards episodes on Dobson,

691
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: like literally like the day after it dropped, I found

692
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: this extra little disturbing nugget of info about him, um

693
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: in a in an old blog post titled is My

694
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: Child Becoming Homosexual? Dobson recommends Dobson recommends things that a

695
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: father can do to help his child fix homosexual symptoms.

696
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: Fix sorry, including taking your child into the shower with

697
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: you to compare penises of Yeah, it is not good.

698
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: I will I will quote from I will quote from

699
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 1: the blog. Um, the boy's father has to do his part.

700
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: He needs to mirror and affirm his son's male nous.

701
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: He can play rough and tumble games with his son

702
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: in ways that are decidedly different from the games he

703
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: would play with a little girl. He can help us

704
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: and learn how to throw and catch a ball. He

705
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: can teach him to pound a square put in peg

706
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: into a square hole. He could even take his son

707
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: into the shower with him where a boy couldn't help

708
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: notice that dad has a fetus, just like holy bigger.

709
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this reminds me of so that is

710
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: a quote by Dr jim Stuffson, psychologist. Oh my god. Anyway,

711
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's nothing, nothing at all to uh, hey,

712
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: Jimmy Dabbs, how's your son? Yeah, that's how are you?

713
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: Are you talking? Nothing at all to kind of interrogate there?

714
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 1: Um yeah, m hm. The other thing that I really love,

715
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: and by love, I mean I don't love. Um, is

716
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: that like the only gay people who exist are gay boys. Yeah,

717
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: the upians and by people don't exist at all. Like, yeah,

718
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: this is a really interesting thing. It's because it's about

719
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: why would Uh, it's about if it happens to a woman,

720
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well they're a woman anyway, they're already

721
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: not as good as men. I guess it kind of

722
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: makes sense that they would do that. Um, if it

723
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: happens to a guy, you're like, well, obviously, like why

724
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: would you do that. You're part of the patriarchy. Why

725
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: would you, Like, you're supposed to exert power over women.

726
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: What is wrong with you for not wanting that? Like

727
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of other like patriarchal stuff going on,

728
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: and like why they focused on that also because they

729
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: undeniably find lesbians attractives, like they can't like they can't

730
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: help but find it hot. So they definitely focus it

731
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: more on gay men because they find that more gross

732
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: because it is like a defiance of patriarchy in it

733
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: like a different way you but stuff. Yeah, and of course,

734
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: but um well and I think also this is the

735
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: same reason why transmisogyny becomes such a huge sort of

736
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: driver fanti transfer because you know, I mean you see

737
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: the a lot also with we see with non Christian

738
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 1: like transforms to but like the ultimate sin you could

739
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: commit if if if you if you're a person is

740
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: if like yeah, the ultimate sin you can commit against

741
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: sort of the family is having someone who being born

742
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: and being seen as a man and then you know,

743
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: becoming a woman a woman, And that's like that's you

744
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: know that, that's that's what trans misogyny is, right, It's

745
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: it's about it's it's the specific kind of trans sexist

746
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: trans sexism that you get when you do that, when

747
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: you specifically like you know, in in these people's eyes,

748
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: it's like you give up being a man and become

749
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: a woman. And these they go ballistic over this because

750
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: it's you know, like it's it's it's it's it's rejection

751
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: to patriarchal power. And then you know, and they have

752
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: to do all of this sort of like incredible pathologizing

753
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: to explain why this would happen and ignore just like

754
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: this person was always a woman. That's also it's like

755
00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: it's it's a condemnation of your misogyny, in your misogynistic

756
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: behavior to like go join you know, the victims of

757
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: our hate. So like it has all of these these

758
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: layers here. Yeah, and it's gonna we're gonna get like

759
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: right right right into trend stuff now because yeah, in

760
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruling making the same sex marriage illegal throughout

761
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: the United States, which sent lgbut anti LGBT hate groups

762
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: into a furious reaction. UM. Family Family Research Council was

763
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: no exception, and it started working in tandem with other

764
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: groups to support so called kind of religious liberty, you know,

765
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: laws which allowed people who object to same sex to

766
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: same sex like couples and just you know, queerness in general,

767
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: to to deny goods and services to same sex couples

768
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: and just you know, queer people in general. It is

769
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: it is very like nonspecific um. So yeah, Also in

770
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: Family Research Council faced its own set of scandals. Referring

771
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: to a friend at the pod Josh jugger Um was

772
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: executive who was executive rector of the Family Research Council

773
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: Action Um political arm of the organization. It was obviously

774
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: revealed that he had molested several babies to your hard drive,

775
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: several children and yeah, I had a lot of had

776
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: a lot of children on his hard drives so much

777
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: that like even like the FBI was kind of surprised

778
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 1: how much he had. Like when when when the FBI

779
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: is surprised on how much child porn you have, You're

780
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: like quite yeah, you are? You are you surprised them?

781
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: Have you? Have you read his his appeal? I have

782
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: not read. It's basically making it out to be like

783
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 1: there was this another guy who had access to that computer.

784
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: Was his name Josh Dougger. No, it's deciding, you're just

785
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: like he's just like somebody else probably did it. It

786
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: wasn't me. Yeah, So he resigned from Family Research Council

787
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: after posting a brief message on his website saying that

788
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: he resigned after concerning events. I think he resigned from

789
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: a Family Research Council because of the Ashley Madison. Yes, well, yeah,

790
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: he resigned listing listed listing concerning events as the recent

791
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: he started Ashley Madison accounts got hacked and leaked and

792
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: it was revealing his email was also on there. Yes, yeah, yeah,

793
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 1: I feel like that's what we kicked it off. But

794
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: that was around the time that was he didn't get Yeah,

795
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: his sister's case got released to the press. It is

796
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: it is frustrating. How Yeah, definitely, the actually Madison thing

797
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: was seen as more of a moral failing than molestian children,

798
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: um and having tons of child porn. That was definitely

799
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: like within like the church, and within within the kind

800
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: of the whole like like church like network. The actual

801
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: Madison thing was seen as much more of a kind

802
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 1: of like an egregious sin. Well, because that's infidelity and

803
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: that's just like that, just Troy as the entire you know,

804
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: nuclear family, whereas molesting your siblings is just boys doing

805
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: waste stuff. See, I I grew up a boy, and

806
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: I never I never did that. I kind of never

807
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 1: did that either. So anyway, Uh, any real boys right

808
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: in and let us know this back to back to

809
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: Perkins UM the Perkins was elected head chair of the

810
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: U S Commission on International Religious Freedom um in, which

811
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: was an independent, bipartisan and federal government entity established by

812
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: US Congress to monitor, analyze, and report on threats to

813
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: religious freedom. So who sponsored that fucking bill? That's a

814
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: good question. Uh. Over the course of this time, he

815
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: continued to work at the Family Research Council as well, UM,

816
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: including the annual Family Research Council sponsored UH values voter

817
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: been to those which featured President Trump as a speaker

818
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: um as well as Healthy Human Services Secretary Alexaser. So yeah,

819
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: this was the first time a sitting Health and Human

820
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: Services secretary was addressed, like gave an address at at

821
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: the gathering um so also at VVS the Values Voter Summit,

822
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: they featured an anti trans panel that illustrated the anti

823
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 1: lgbt Q rights shift to kind of storytelling as a

824
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: way to further marginalized trans people's and like next year,

825
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: oh god, the the panel hosted like a multiple kind

826
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: of anti transactivists. Um Lynn Maker was there. Um two

827
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: of Maker's children in entify his trans and they no

828
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: longer speak to her. Um Andre van Mole, the co

829
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: chairman Anti lgbt Hate group of the American College of

830
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: Pediatrician's Committee on Adolescent Sexuality, used to use like suice

831
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: scientific claims, telling the audience that the that that dissidence

832
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: from gender dysphoria is the norm, calling that they use

833
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 1: this weird problematic study that LEMPT, like that limpt trans

834
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: kids together with non trans kids to study this idea

835
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: of gender identity. It's a whole bunch of like the same,

836
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 1: like you know how like they were like over two thousands.

837
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: They were. They were misusing like research to say like, oh, look,

838
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: how all of these gay people are all also all pedophiles.

839
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: Also they have sex with kids more often than adults.

840
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: Like what, No, it's it's the same. It's this, it's

841
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: the same type of thing. Um. They also fake me

842
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 1: the false claim that the majority of trans kids are

843
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 1: also like a diagnosed with autism, which makes it easier

844
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: for them to be recruited into being transgender because they

845
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: can be tricked because they're autistic, because you can collect

846
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: them all. This is like the they then diagram of

847
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: autism causme vaccines is causing trans kids. Also also the

848
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: idea that like trans affirming care causes more dysphoria, which

849
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: causes more suicide, as opposed to the scientific reasoning that

850
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: affirming care causes less dysphoria, which causes less suicide. Um,

851
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, a whole bunch of a whole bunch of

852
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: nonsense stuff. You can't expect a group that will not

853
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: acknowledge the fact that having access to birth control as

854
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: a way to prevent abortions would acknowledge any of this

855
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: is real either. Yeah, No, I mean the pedal also

856
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: featured Cathy Grace Duncan from from the Portland, Oregon based

857
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: Portland's Fellowship, which states that it offers a freedom to

858
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: people from homosexuality. UM. Duncan claims that she detransitioned, and

859
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: it is proof that transitioning is always wrong because that

860
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: she detransitions. That means it's proof for everybody that everybody

861
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: should yes, because trans people are a monolith. Yeah, we're

862
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: talking more about We're gonna be talking more about, um,

863
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: the sort of how how people who do transition get

864
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: weaponized against trans people. And again, I also I also

865
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: need to point out, like just just immediately that like

866
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: most people who do transition detransition because as they are

867
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: under immense social pressure too because society is normalusly transphobic.

868
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: And then there are a small number of people who

869
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 1: do treat who do treat de transition because it's not

870
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: for them and good for them, but yeah, they get

871
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: a very various fall minority of those people basically get

872
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: used by people who don't care about them. Other people

873
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: get gender firming surgeries and change their minds about it later.

874
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: There's this whole movement of you know, women who are

875
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: getting their breast implants removed. What's the difference. It's the

876
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: same picture. Ye, same picture. Sure. Another really fun another

877
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: fun thing I do at least once a year as

878
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: I go onto the focus on the Family and Family

879
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: Research Council websites and that look at look at their

880
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: entire like queer section. That's really interesting because like all

881
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: of them around like gay people like is is my

882
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: kid gay? What to do? What to do with my kids? Gay?

883
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: Is my is my kids showing gay symptoms? Like all

884
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: the stuff, and then post it's all like the gender issue,

885
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: you know, the cult the people trying to get your

886
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: kid to be trans? Is my kid trans? Why is

887
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: my kid dressing up in girls clothes? It's like, it's

888
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: it's such a it's such an immediate shift to know

889
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: if your kid is taxing trans shit, all of this

890
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: homosexual like fear stuff to immediately being scared about like

891
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: the agenda identity kind of movement and like the cult

892
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: of transgenderism. Um, yeah, it is, it is. It is

893
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: such a stark, stark change. Heritage Foundation website is the

894
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: same I licked up when they added their gender page,

895
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: and it was in twenty seven ten, yeah, exactly was

896
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: when they started going after trans things. The only thing

897
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: was like, oh, well, it's actually okay that there's a

898
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: pay gap between men and women. In seventeen they were

899
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 1: like trans yea From eighteen, you see a massive explosion

900
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: in all of these in all of these like stuff

901
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: about trans and like trans science, whether it be like

902
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: the whether it be like the answers in Genesis, whether

903
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 1: it be focused with the family, whether it be because

904
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: the Heritage Foundation, all of this stuff. You can watch

905
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: watch an immediate shift in the type of stuff that

906
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: they they start talking about. I will just say I

907
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,240
Speaker 1: am a little glad they're doing it, not for reasons

908
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,479
Speaker 1: you think, but because this means that they're their kids

909
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: growing up like we grew up, who know that this

910
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: is an option now? Whereas like that is true, we

911
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,439
Speaker 1: didn't know that it was an option until we got out.

912
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: Yeah is it's mean? Yeah, But you can see the

913
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: kind of the switch and stuff. There's a in the

914
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 1: in a Family Research Council pamphlet written by Peter Sprague

915
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,479
Speaker 1: called how to Respond to the LGBTQ Movement Publish says

916
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: people with gender dysphoria or transgender identities are more likely

917
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: than the general population to engage in high risk behaviors

918
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: which may contribute to psychological disorders or both. Highs of

919
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: suicide exists in among those who have already received gender

920
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,720
Speaker 1: resignment surgery, which exists to a Siddle tendency is resulted

921
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: in an underlying pathology. The same people write the script

922
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 1: of euphor you. But yeah, a whole bunch of stuff

923
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: around like Tom Perkins, Peter Sprigue. You just look at

924
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: all of this stuff. It's um, this is such a

925
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: such an explosion. Uh. Tony Perkins wrote a pamphlet called

926
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: I Have a Girl Brain but a Boy Body, um

927
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: for for for a Virginia kindergarteners, like a transgender story

928
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: thing that he was doing around thing for years, LGBTQ

929
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: activists wanted to keep the goal of luring children into

930
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: sexual confusion under wraps. But now that they've hood winked

931
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: a lot of the country on their agenda, these extremists

932
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,919
Speaker 1: no longer have to hide. In fact, they're increasingly bold

933
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: and even boastful about their real intentions of recruiting kids.

934
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: So in terms of like again, it's it's it is

935
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: and it is an infection. It's a contagion that they're

936
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: trying to like infect or recruit children. Um. And again

937
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: all of that kind of rhetoric is in a post,

938
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: like in a in like a in a pamphlet call

939
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: you know about about trans being about being trans, thaying

940
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: I have a girl brain but in the boy body.

941
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 1: It's like the fact that they're this rhetoric is happening,

942
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: is gonna it's gonna convince kids that they fall prey

943
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: to it. Like it's this whole, this whole thing that

944
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: is such a such a marked kind of change. Um,

945
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: you can read, you know. The other titles include stuff

946
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: like the regressive cult of Transgenderism. Um, all this kind

947
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: of stuff talking about our country understands that scientology is

948
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 1: a cult, but we don't seem to understand is how

949
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: the much, how much the transition, how much the transgender

950
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: movement mirrors cults like scientology. It's it's all of it's

951
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: all of the same, it's all of the same stuff.

952
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 1: And the transgender cult is a cult. It's the best

953
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 1: cult I've been in yet. Rates like, I I feel

954
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 1: like we need to Nobody will give me. I can.

955
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: I can stop doing my weekly injections whenever I want to,

956
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: And you won't. You won't lose your friends. Amazing, No,

957
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: I will not so anyway, that stuff not at any

958
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: point that was kind of the bulk of stuff I

959
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: had gathered around specifically talking about kind of family Family

960
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: Research Council and how you know, the change happened around

961
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: from all of the stuff around you know, protecting marriage equality,

962
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 1: protecting you know, the psychety of marriage to changing It's

963
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 1: like it's the same save the children rhetoric, but now

964
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: shifted over to gender issues. I mean, they're just window

965
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: because they can't win on the gay issue anymore, so

966
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: they've just got to keep pushing in that direction. But

967
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: it's the same organizing forces. It's the same organizations, it's

968
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: the same mailing lists, it's the same pamphlets, it's the

969
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: same writer's right, it's all the people who wrote that,

970
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: all the same stuff, just moving it over to trans things.

971
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to kind of lay this groundwork

972
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: for us when we when we talk about kind of

973
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 1: the ongoing legislative fight against trans people in these next

974
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: few episodes. I just wanted to kind of lay this

975
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: out for an example of talking about Yeah, it is

976
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 1: really just you know, there was all these fears around

977
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: you know, gay people in the change rooms, Gay people

978
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: in the bathrooms just gets shifted over to trans people

979
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: in change rooms, trans people in the bathrooms. It's just this,

980
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: it's the just moving. It's just this, like this turning

981
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: of the clock that just shifts it over to the transgender.

982
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what before, but it's easier to like

983
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: to pull parental Right, stuff is on the rise in

984
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: the in this community as a talking point, and it's

985
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 1: always easier to pull that in with trans issues than

986
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: it is with gay issues. Yes, well, I think that

987
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: we are running out of time. But even curan where

988
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: can people find you online? U Our podcast is the

989
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: Kitchen Table Cults. You can find it at Kitchen Table

990
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: cult dot com. Um our handle on Twitter is Kitchen

991
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: Cult Pod. I'm at Blue pet Boy on Twitter and

992
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:38,439
Speaker 1: I'm at even Underscore at ginger um. I would also

993
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: recommend like if you want to have a like you know,

994
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: trans authors take on the transition. The novel De transition

995
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: Baby is out there. It exists. Is again one person's takes.

996
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: It's not a monolithic thing, but it's a it's a

997
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: good novel. Um And then if you want to learn

998
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: more about the effects of the deconversion Therapy Universe. UM.

999
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: Gary Conley's book Boy Race is fucking great. YEP, agreed. UM.

1000
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: I always want to thank you both for coming on

1001
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: to talk about again one of one of the most

1002
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: fun topics. UM. A favorite people near and dear to

1003
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: near and dear to all of our hearts with featuring

1004
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: friends friends of the Pod, James Dobson and his urge

1005
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: to take his kids in the shower with them to

1006
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: compare penises, and our good friend Josh Dogger. Um, Save

1007
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: save the children, Not like that, all right, that's the

1008
00:58:35,000 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: that's the episode. Lssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss