1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Strange Arrivals is a production of iHeart Radio and Grim 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron making for the best experience listen 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: with headphones, George. 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: Basically, what we're dealing with here is I'll give you 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: the bottom line. I'm not trying to sell it. I 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: want to hear your thesis. I'm not trying to sell 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: a book. I'm not trying to promote a lecture. This 8 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 2: is based on what I've come across after intense research 9 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 2: in the last year, and I have found out that 10 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 2: the government has retrieved between ten and fifteen flactual flying saucers, 11 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: three of which have been in perfect condition, one of 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 2: which they tried to fly. They have between thirty and 13 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 2: fifty alien bodies in cryogenic storage. We even have the 14 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: name of the person whose job it is to show 15 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: these bodies to the heads of state and the people 16 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: who are authorized to see them. They represent at least 17 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: five different civilizations. 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 3: I'm Toby ball in This is Strange Arrivals, Episode twelve, 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 3: Priests at the Ziggarat What do you see when you 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 3: look at the UFO world? Do you see scientists and 21 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 3: researchers who are scoffed at by their colleagues while they 22 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: work to uncover the great mystery of our times, a 23 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 3: professional wrestling style artificial drama created by people playing roles 24 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 3: in what is essentially an entertainment industry, or something more 25 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 3: like a religion or spiritual movement guided by a select 26 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: group determining its followers' beliefs. The answer is probably that 27 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 3: there are elements of all three of these visions. But 28 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: when I look, what I mostly see is something that 29 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 3: resembles a religion. 30 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 4: Stories of UFO sightings and especially UFO contact, people who 31 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:11,119 Speaker 4: claim contact or some sort of connection with extraterrestrial or 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 4: ultraterrestrial or interdimensional beings. I think it has gone underrecognized 33 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 4: as an element of American or maybe Western spirituality. 34 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: Host of the Saucer Life podcast, Aaron. 35 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 4: Gaullas, these are stories that are things that in another 36 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 4: time and place might have been considered divine encounters of 37 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 4: some kind, and so can there be some kind of 38 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 4: way to integrate some of these stories into our conception 39 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 4: of human experiences with the divine, with the supernatural, going 40 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 4: all the way back as far as we have records 41 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 4: of those things. At the same time, thinking about it 42 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 4: like that might downplay the role that the popular culture 43 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 4: and the historical context play in how these stories develop 44 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 4: and what details are there. 45 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: In this season's final episode, I want to look at 46 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 3: a theme that has come up again and again in 47 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 3: conversations that I've had in the course of making three 48 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 3: seasons of Strange Arrivals. Belief in UFOs and other paranormal 49 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 3: phenomena can occupy the same place in people's lives as religion, 50 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 3: and this can affect how they view UFOs. We've heard 51 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 3: about Robert Bigelow several times during this season. He is 52 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 3: a billionaire the owner of Bigelow Aerospace and Budget Suites 53 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 3: of America. He once owned Skinwalker Ranch, lobbied Senator Harry 54 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 3: Reid to fund a Pentagon program to investigate the paranormal, 55 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 3: and reportedly retrofitted storage units in Las Vegas to house 56 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 3: debris from crash to alien craft. These are just a 57 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 3: few of the things that he initiated or funded. In 58 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 3: June of twenty twenty, he founded the Bigelow Institute for 59 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 3: Consciousness Studies, an organization that sponsored a competition offering a 60 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 3: cash prize for the best evidence of the survival of 61 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 3: consciousness after death. Bigelow founded this institute just four months 62 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 3: after the death of his wife of fifty five years, Dianne. 63 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 3: His interest in an afterlife, which his wife shared, predated 64 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: Diane's death. In nineteen ninety two, their son committed suicide 65 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 3: at the age of twenty four, a devastating event. In 66 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 3: January twenty first, twenty twenty one New York Times article 67 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 3: Ralph Blumenthal, who we heard from earlier this season, as 68 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: John Max's biographer, wrote, seeking comfort. After their son's death, 69 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: the Bigelows held sittings with the renowned medium George Anderson. 70 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 3: Did their son make contact, Not really, mister Bigelow said, 71 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 3: but what I got out of the readings I think 72 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,799 Speaker 3: was that his spirit existed and that he was okay. 73 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety seven, he established the Bigelow Chair of 74 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 3: Consciousness Studies at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, but 75 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 3: shut it down after a few years when it didn't 76 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 3: make much progress. He then turned his attention to studying UFOs. 77 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 5: A lot of what drives Robert Bigelow's interest in the 78 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 5: paranormal was the death of his son, which is a tragedy, 79 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 5: but that type of loss will definitely push people to 80 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 5: reach out to try and grab onto something greater in 81 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 5: hopes that someone you love isn't truly lost. 82 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 3: Journalist and host of The Alien State podcast MJ. Benaias 83 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: they're out there somewhere, they're still around for sure. 84 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 5: That's going to drive people. I know it would drive me. 85 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 5: I mean, I've got kids. I know if something like 86 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 5: that happened to me, I would definitely reach out to 87 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 5: anything to try and hold on. So we know that 88 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 5: there's this kind of moments in people's lives, whether it's 89 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 5: through work, or whether it's through research, or whether it's 90 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 5: through personal loss, as tragic as it is, that is 91 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 5: going to propel them to find faith in something larger 92 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 5: than themselves. And I think the UFO topic, I think 93 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 5: the paranormal topic in general, is that I think it's 94 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 5: just our natural tendency as a species to latch onto 95 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 5: that which is bigger than us that we hope is there. 96 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 3: Clearly, the desire for the existence of a greater power, 97 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 3: be it divine or paranormal, can lead people down many paths, 98 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 3: with religion being by far the most common, but it 99 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 3: is not the only path. 100 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 6: What kind of magical thinking do we do reflexibly on 101 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 6: a daily basis that might not be as extreme as 102 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 6: having a big, perfectly articulated argument why dinosaurs had to 103 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 6: be on Noah's ark and they were vegetarians and whatnot. 104 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 6: But we might do it nonetheless in smaller, trickier ways, 105 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 6: and this universal kind of touching vulnerability to that. My 106 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 6: name is Sarah Krasisdean, and I am a writer. And 107 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 6: you'll find that I have a very strange hybrid accent 108 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 6: because I am a dual American Australian citizen, and I've 109 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 6: spent probably about half my life in each country. By 110 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 6: this point. 111 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: I spoke with Sarah about her book The Believer, which 112 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 3: takes a look at the lives, experiences, and beliefs of 113 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 3: people from six different walks of life. Death doula ghost hunter, 114 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 3: Evangelical Christian at the Creation Museum, Mennonite, a woman incarcerated 115 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: for killing her abusive husband, and UFO believer. 116 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 6: I was hearing the same phrases again and again. And 117 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 6: what the believer is is exprated together very different stories 118 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 6: that on the surface have nothing in common. And I 119 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 6: was hearing this phrase again from all these people, whether 120 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 6: they were the ghost hunters or the euthologists, or fundamentalist 121 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 6: Christians or Buddhists that this life can't be all there is. 122 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 6: There has to be something else out there. And whether 123 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 6: they came at that from a you know, kingdom come 124 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 6: evangelist perspective, or a Buddhist non attachment perspective, or a 125 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 6: personal kind of agency perspective or literal alien perspective, it 126 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 6: was this longing for something more, for some meaning, for 127 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 6: something greater than we appeared to be able to produce 128 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 6: for ourselves in this kind of quotidian daily life. It's 129 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 6: something that you know again, kind of I see across 130 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 6: all these stories. I saw across the stories, whether it 131 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 6: was the paranormal researchers, the ghost hunters at work, or 132 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 6: some of the ethologists, the kind of inability, which is 133 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 6: a very human, universal inability. We all do it in 134 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 6: different ways to have difficulty tolerating uncertainty and therefore our 135 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 6: own intractable lack of control over daily circumstances. 136 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 3: Sarah sees a range of beliefs and interests addressing the 137 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 3: human need to perceive something greater than ourselves. Again, for 138 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 3: the vast, vast majority of people, this is found in religion. 139 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 3: Religion runs on faith. You don't require scientific proof to believe, 140 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 3: but that's not the case in the worlds of UFO 141 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 3: and paranormal belief. The people in these worlds value proof. 142 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: Robert Bigelow, for instance, has used his considerable fortune to 143 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 3: study the phenomena he is interested in. It's not enough 144 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 3: to believe or have faith, he wants scientific proof. Any 145 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 3: number of cable television shows center O finding evidence evidence 146 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 3: of aliens who have visited Earth in the distant past, 147 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 3: evidence of more recent famous encounters such as Roswell or 148 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 3: rendelstromp Forrest, more current evidence of UFOs taken by cell 149 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 3: phones or cameras mounted on military jets, or evidence that 150 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 3: the government is hiding the truth from US abduction researcher 151 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 3: Bud Hopkins claimed that experiencers from around the globe were 152 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 3: left with similar scoop shaped scars and even tiny implanted devices. 153 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 3: The problem is that none of this evidence has stood 154 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 3: up to scientific scrutiny as proof. 155 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 7: I think that one of the reasons why people are 156 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 7: getting into UFOs as opposed to say, other religions, is 157 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 7: because in modern times, you know, we consider ourselves these 158 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 7: kind of rational, scientific minded people, and UFOs can kind 159 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 7: of take the place of religion. But we can see 160 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 7: it being real. My name is Jeff Knox. I'm a 161 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 7: UFO researcher. I tend to focus on the history of 162 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 7: the topic. I also do a lot of work on 163 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 7: archival stuff and digital preservation, scanning documents, files and preserving 164 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 7: them for the next generation researchers. 165 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 3: Jeff speculates that UFOs offer a plausible alternative to religion 166 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 3: because our current technology and scientific knowledge make further advances 167 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 3: such as travel to other solar systems seem attainable by 168 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 3: us or someone else. 169 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 7: We can hypothesize interstellar travel, we can hypothesize us visiting 170 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 7: other planets, and we can think, well, maybe aliens are 171 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 7: doing the same, they're visiting us, and so UFOs is 172 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 7: something that kind of fits within our scientific worldview as 173 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 7: something that's at least very plausible. 174 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 3: About some people who become involved in the UFO topic. 175 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 7: Jeff says, UFOs will act as kind of that belief 176 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 7: system for them, and it seems more plausible than you know, 177 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 7: fairies or angels or demons, because life in the universe 178 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 7: ex stressal life is almost probably a certainty out there somewhere. 179 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 3: Another aspect of this dynamic of UFOs as belief system 180 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: is that skeptical pushback against UFO claims can be seen 181 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 3: as an attack against a person's core beliefs. It's understandably threatening, 182 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 3: and the response from believers can seem excessive. One person 183 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 3: who is often on the end of these responses is 184 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 3: UFO researcher Mick West. 185 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 8: Is an interesting thing that blowback because the people in 186 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 8: the UFO community, a lot of them are very passionate, 187 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 8: and some of them are super passionate. It's almost like 188 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 8: a religion, but in some ways it's more than a 189 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 8: religion because for the individual person in ufology, they're often 190 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 8: basing that belief on personal experience. So it's like, you know, 191 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 8: if your religion was based upon God speaking to you directly, 192 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 8: it will be that personal. And for someone who's seen 193 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 8: a UFO or even in some cases feels like they 194 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 8: were had contact with an alien or even were abducted 195 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 8: by aliens, is a deeply personal thing, and so when 196 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 8: someone comes along and they're saying, well, that's probably just 197 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 8: a bird, they take it very much as a personal attack, 198 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 8: and so they get very defensive. So I've kind of 199 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 8: learned that over the years that you have to be 200 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 8: understanding of people's beliefs if you're going to communicate effectively 201 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 8: with them. 202 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 3: So here's the thing. If you are a UFO believer, 203 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 3: what kind of proof do you need? What is adequate 204 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 3: to confirm to yourself that this is in some sense real? 205 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 3: Because there is no hard evidence right now that is 206 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 3: going to make the scientific case, or if there is, 207 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 3: it's not public MJ. Benias. 208 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 5: Whatever the phenomenon is, it's by definition kind of unknowable. 209 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 5: You can observe UFOs for five thousand years and you 210 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 5: will probably never get enough observational data to say, Okay, 211 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 5: we can now make a scientific conclusion here. You can't 212 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 5: just bring one into a lab. It's never really going 213 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 5: to happen unless literally something crashes and we're able to 214 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 5: recover it and haul it into a lab and study 215 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 5: it or something. We have a lot of stories about 216 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 5: that type of event occurring, but there's no actual evidence 217 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 5: or data to back it up apart from just anecdote. Unfortunately. 218 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 5: That's kind of where we're stuck. 219 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 3: But is scientific certainty necessary for belief in UFOs? When 220 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: I interviewed Diana Pisolka, who is a professor of philosophy 221 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 3: and religion, at University of North Carolina Wilmington. I asked 222 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 3: her a question about how proof of alien visitors would 223 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 3: be accepted by religious and non religious people. 224 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 9: People in religion, practitioners of religion already believe is things 225 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 9: that are non human intelligences. They already had this category. 226 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 9: They've lived with it their whole lives. Right, they go 227 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 9: to synagogue, they go to temple, you know, they go 228 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 9: to wherever you know, church, and there they talk about 229 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 9: unseen realities, spiritual realities, things like that. Atheists want hardcore evidence, 230 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 9: They want like a flying saucer to land on the 231 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 9: White House lawn. But that kind of thing, I'm not 232 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 9: sure they're gonna get that. They're gonna get some stuff, 233 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 9: some you know, realities like radar signatures and things like that. 234 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 9: They're gonna get that. They're also going to get a 235 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 9: lot of reliable, credible witnesses who've seen things as well. 236 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 3: So her answer seems to be that belief will have 237 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: to be based on indications, not proof. Signs like radar 238 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 3: signatures and stories, the types of things, signs and stories 239 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 3: that underpin religions, and maybe that's all that Many people need, 240 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 3: something that supports their faith in the existence of UFOs, 241 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 3: even if it falls short of actual proof. But for others, 242 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 3: myself included, something more is needed, something that would hold 243 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 3: up under scientific scrutiny or in a court of law. MJ. Benias. 244 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 5: For me to believe, I need to actually see it. 245 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 5: I need to actually research it. I actually need to 246 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 5: speak to the people who are there. I need to 247 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 5: see more data in order for me to actually believe 248 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 5: in it. And I think it's a lot of people, 249 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 5: and I think that's why the UFO topic remains in 250 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 5: this category of permanent observation and anecdote and never getting 251 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 5: anywhere further. 252 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: If this sounds like things are at an impasse, they aren't, 253 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 3: because there is no lack of interpretation and conjecture about 254 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: the types of information that Diana mentioned, and there is 255 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: also the promise of more information to come after the 256 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 3: break Strange Arrivals will return in a moment. Over the 257 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 3: course of three seasons of Strange Arrivals, we've examined a 258 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 3: host of leading figures in the UFO world. One who 259 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 3: we haven't, though his name has come up a few times, 260 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 3: is Jacques Vallet. Valet has had a wide ranging career, 261 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 3: including as an astronomer, computer scientist, and venture capitalist, but 262 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 3: he is best known for his UFO research and theorizing. 263 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 3: He is the inspiration for the character Claude Lacombe played 264 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 3: by Francois Truffau in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. 265 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 10: Vashonieri, please one more question. 266 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 3: Have you recently had a Close Encounter? We heard John 267 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 3: Keel complain that Vallet was taking his ideas earlier in 268 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 3: this season. Valat is a critic of the extraterrestrial hypothesis 269 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 3: and speculates that the phenomenon might be extra dimensional and 270 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 3: responsible for some religious events, such as the Fatoma Visions, 271 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 3: a supposed apparition of the Virgin Mary, who imparted prophecies 272 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 3: to three farm children in Portugal in nineteen seventeen. 273 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 8: Mick West, I think this is something you see in 274 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 8: UFO researchers, is that they're not really objective and that 275 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 8: they a lot of people are interested in UFO research 276 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 8: because they're trying to validate something. They're trying to validate 277 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 8: a particular belief that they already hold, and so they're 278 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 8: not really trying to figure out what happened in certain cases. 279 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 8: They're trying to use certain cases to bolster their argument, 280 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 8: and it seems fairly obvious that's what's happening, even if 281 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 8: perhaps they don't realize it themselves. Jacques Valet has a 282 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 8: tendency to believe everything that the witnesses say. So they've 283 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 8: spin some complicated story about being visited by aliens or 284 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 8: something happening, or white powder being sprayed on their house 285 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 8: or something like that, and he believes that it all 286 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 8: happened exactly as they described it, and then he tries 287 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 8: to fit that into some kind of framework. And the 288 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 8: only way you can really do it is kind of 289 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 8: go really far out there. It's not just simply people 290 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 8: seeing lights in the sky that they can't explain, which 291 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 8: might be alien spaceships. I mean, that's almost fairly straightforward. 292 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 8: How do you explain these actual encounters that people supposedly 293 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 8: have and he comes up with explanations about essentially tricksters 294 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 8: from other dimensions who are going in and perhaps even 295 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 8: altering reality on an individual scale. They're really just not 296 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 8: based on evidence. That just a way of trying to 297 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 8: fit the stories into reality, and the stories really don't 298 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 8: comport with reality. And so the simpler explanation is just 299 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 8: that these stories are not accurate. But if your default 300 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 8: position is to believe this story is one hundred percent accurate, 301 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 8: then you've got to jump through so many hoops to 302 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 8: try to make it actually fit in the world. 303 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 3: We saw this dynamic with John Keel's theories about the 304 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 3: super spectrum and ultra terrestrials. The point is that people 305 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 3: like Valet and Keel and mac and Heinek have served 306 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 3: as interpreters of UFO information throughout the years, and now, 307 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 3: following the twenty seventeen New York Times article describing the 308 00:20:54,800 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 3: Pentagon's UFO program, there is a new generation. The characteristic 309 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 3: of this generation is that they claim to be privy 310 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 3: to knowledge that the rest of us are not. 311 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 6: I happen to be privileged enough to. 312 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: Being on the fact that we have been visited on 313 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: this planet. 314 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 10: With absolute certainty, that four species, four different species at least, 315 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 10: had been visiting this planet for thousands of years. 316 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 11: And the original stuff that a tip did was Foye 317 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 11: exempt and people, how do you know that? Because I 318 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 11: stood there with the memo in my hand that said 319 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 11: these are literally I watched the DoD memo that said 320 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 11: it and it was signed. 321 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 3: Is that it is my belief that the United States 322 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 3: is in possession of exotic material, and unfortunately, that's about 323 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 3: all I can I can say at this time. Again, 324 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 3: M J. 325 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 5: Benias, Ancient history was what I used to teach you, 326 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 5: and the ancient Babylonians had these massive temples, and they 327 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 5: would believe that at the very top of the temple, 328 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 5: the priests could go in there and commune with the God. 329 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 5: You could talk to the gods and the gods would respond, 330 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 5: but only the priests could do it. If a person 331 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 5: like you or me walked up the ziggarette and walked 332 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 5: into this temple, nothing would happen. But if a priest 333 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 5: did it, they would see God and they would communicate. 334 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 5: It's kind of a very similar situation. We're kind of 335 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 5: trusting people within the no trusting people who claim to 336 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 5: have evidence of UFOs or evidence of aliens or whatever. 337 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 5: We're trusting them to be the ones to communicate with 338 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 5: the gods for us. But if we try, well, we're 339 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 5: we're not on the inside, we're not part of that community. 340 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 5: We're never going to get access to that. So it 341 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 5: kind of exists in this kind of anecdotal world. Much 342 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 5: like the priests of ancient days would communicate with gods 343 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 5: and then come back down and say, like this God 344 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 5: says this, you have to listen to me because I'm 345 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 5: a priest. I think it's kind of a similar mindset. 346 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 5: You have this kind of religious system operating within eufology, 347 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 5: within the paranormal community, within nineteenth century spiritualism, of these 348 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 5: kind of priestly class that functions at this high level, 349 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 5: that has access to allegedly all the evidence from the anecdotes, 350 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 5: and then the rest of us who will never see 351 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 5: that ever in our lives. 352 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 3: A theme in the world of ufology that goes back 353 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 3: decades is the belief that the government knows much more 354 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 3: about UFOs than it is letting on the idea that 355 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 3: the government will at some point reveal publicly what they 356 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: know is called disclosure with a capital D. We talked 357 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 3: about this a little bit in the previous episode. The 358 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen New York Times article kicked off renewed anticipation 359 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 3: that disclosure was imminent, if it wasn't already under way, 360 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 3: and this heightened excitement about disclosure sets a dynamic that 361 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 3: can be seen in religious movements. In eighteen twenty two, 362 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 3: a wealthy Baptist named William Miller determined that the second 363 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 3: Coming of Jesus Christ would occur in eighteen forty three 364 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 3: or eighteen forty four. In eighteen thirty one, he made 365 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 3: this prediction public, and over the next decade the movement grew. 366 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 3: He eventually set several time periods or actual dates when 367 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 3: the second Coming would occur, and each would see a 368 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 3: building of excitement and then pass without event, but his 369 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 3: followers remained until a final date of October twenty second, 370 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 3: eighteen forty four was put forward and then passed. This 371 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 3: was referred to as the Great Disappointment Capital G Capital D, 372 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 3: but some followers remained in daily anticipation of Christ's return. 373 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 3: More recently, in nineteen ninety three, the ninety year old 374 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 3: Monoca Mendel Schneerson suffered a stroke while praying at the 375 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 3: grave of his father, leaving him unable to speak. Schneerson 376 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,959 Speaker 3: was a rabbi in the lubavitre sect of Orthodox Judaism, 377 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 3: based in the Crown Heights section of New York City. 378 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 3: He was known as the Rebbee, a title given to 379 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 3: the spiritual leader of the sect. There was a wide 380 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 3: belief in the Lubavitor community that Schneerson was likely the 381 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 3: Masayak or Messiah. After his stroke, the community was consumed 382 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 3: with the expectation that at any minute he would be 383 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 3: revealed as the Messiah. This is from the January third, 384 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety three edition of The New York Times about 385 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 3: so called messiah beepers. In the pre cell phone days, 386 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 3: beepers or pagers were a way to get a message 387 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 3: to someone who wasn't by their landline phone. The messiah 388 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 3: beeper was to alert people that the Messiah was revealed. 389 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 12: They need the beepers so they know immediately when the 390 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 12: Messiah has arrived. There's an expectation that at any moment 391 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,479 Speaker 12: there will be a revelation, said heim Alberstam, the audio 392 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 12: visual expert who oversees Messiah beeber sales. People are very 393 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 12: tense waiting could happen any second, said schiffra Hendry. 394 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 3: This kind of anticipation is very powerful. It galvanizes believers 395 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 3: and disclosure acts in a similar way. The truth is 396 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 3: going to be revealed soon, or the revealing of the 397 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 3: truth has already begun. The two congressionally mandated Pentagon UFO 398 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 3: reports over the past two years were the subject of 399 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: great expectations from the UFO community, thinking that this would 400 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 3: be the moment that the government secrets were revealed. Both 401 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,959 Speaker 3: reports were duds, revealing little and forcing believers to sift 402 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 3: through the verbiage for clues. But an odd thing happens 403 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 3: when these events fail to come off. Many followers don't 404 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 3: lose faith. Often, in fact, they become even more convinced. 405 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 3: William Miller's followers stayed with him through several prophecied dates 406 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: that ended in disappointment. The same happens in the UFO community. 407 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 7: What ends up happening is the prophesied disclosure or the 408 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,959 Speaker 7: prophecies landing of the ships never happens, and so it 409 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 7: dies down for a bit, and then it repeats all 410 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 7: over again. Cycles or people come up with new justifications 411 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 7: as to why the disclosure hasn't happened yet, or as 412 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 7: to why in some of those religions the ships haven't 413 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 7: landed yet. To help us all out, they come up 414 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 7: with excuses and justifications as to why the prophecy's never occurred. 415 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 7: They push it, and this is basically again the same 416 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 7: thing you see with disclosure. They come up with reasons 417 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 7: why it doesn't occur and then they push the data 418 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 7: out further. This way, you kind of never reach an 419 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 7: endpoint and you can keep the cycle going perpetually. And 420 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 7: unfortunately a lot of people in the UFO world, while 421 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 7: they may not be in an actual uf OR religion, 422 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 7: they treat the topic like a religion. It becomes their 423 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 7: belief system and they approach it in the exact same way. 424 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 3: I want to come back to something we looked at 425 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 3: in episode ten, John Keel's ideas about the super spectrum 426 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 3: and ultraterrestrials. In his book The Eighth Tower, he lays 427 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 3: out his theory that there is a whole reality that 428 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 3: inhabits the same space that we do, but which we 429 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 3: cannot detect because it exists at frequencies beyond our ability 430 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 3: to sense. Occasionally, his theory goes, a being from the 431 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 3: super spectrum is pulled into our reality. In our reality, 432 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 3: it doesn't have a form until it is experienced by someone, 433 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 3: at which point it adopts the form that matches the 434 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 3: experiencer's expectations. That is, it appears to be what the 435 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 3: observer expects of a paranormal being expect a ghost, and 436 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 3: the ultra terrestrial is a ghost. Expect an alien, and 437 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 3: you get an alien. The idea is that there is 438 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,239 Speaker 3: an external thing that exists but doesn't really have a 439 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,959 Speaker 3: form until it is given one by our own subconscious 440 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 3: It is created both outside of and within us. Does 441 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 3: this make sense? Maybe not literally, but that's not how 442 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 3: Keel claims he meant it. Researcher and folklore professor David Clark. 443 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 10: I thought he was convinced that these ultra terrestrials were 444 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 10: real and the big sort of thing that blow as 445 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 10: he was at the time when I met him and 446 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 10: we had this long discussion, was he just told me 447 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 10: that he invents it. The whole thing. 448 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 4: You know. 449 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 10: It was a literary device. 450 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 3: And it seems to me to be a great literary 451 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 3: device because people have always told stories about the magical 452 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 3: or the paranormal. These stories have been told through centuries 453 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 3: and across cultures. Jacques Valet would say that these stories 454 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 3: are told about something real and strange that we don't understand. 455 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 3: I think telling these stories is part of the human condition. 456 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 3: It's a way of trying to understand the world we 457 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 3: find ourselves in. The Other part of this is that 458 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 3: these stories reflect the times UFOs appear in the late 459 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 3: nineteen forties, when our own craft were becoming increasingly common 460 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 3: sights in the skies. Before that, it was airships that 461 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 3: reflected our use of hot air balloons, and before that, 462 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 3: when we had no access to the skies, it was 463 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 3: divine beings such as angels. And this makes these stories 464 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 3: different from religious stories, which stay rooted in the era 465 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 3: they were created. There is no serious reimagining of Old 466 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 3: Testament figures in the mind world. They will always be 467 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 3: of their time. Throughout this season, we've looked at the 468 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 3: effect that researchers have on UFO accounts. I think about 469 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 3: Keel's literary device and how our expectations determine what form 470 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 3: the paranormal takes. I think these expectations largely come from 471 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 3: a handful of prominent UFO researchers. Did Bud Hopkins, David Jacobs, 472 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 3: and John Mack stumble upon a vast conspiracy of alien abduction, 473 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 3: or did their accounts of it cause some people to 474 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 3: interpret their own experiences, whatever they were, real or imagined, 475 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 3: as abductions. Did Jacobs and Mac happen to only interview 476 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 3: people whose abduction experiences fit with their theories, or did 477 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 3: the researchers they talked with determine how their subjects recalled 478 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 3: abduction experiences. I'm sometimes asked how researching three seasons of 479 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 3: this podcast has changed my thoughts about UFOs. Well, it 480 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 3: hasn't changed my belief that there aren't actual physical craft 481 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 3: from a different planet or different dimension flying around our skies. 482 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 3: I just don't see the evidence. I think it's also 483 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 3: important to acknowledge, though, that a lot of people sincerely 484 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 3: believe that they have had experiences with UFOs or the paranormal, 485 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 3: whether it be experiencers of alien abduction or witnesses to 486 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 3: the appearance of strange lights or craft, and these perceived 487 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 3: experiences often have a profound effect on those people's lives. 488 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 3: Just because I don't believe their experiences were the result 489 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 3: of something not of this world doesn't mean I don't 490 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 3: honor their right to their own memories. In the end, 491 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 3: they agree with Aaron Gullias when he says that UFO's 492 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 3: stories are under recognized as an element of American spirituality. 493 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 3: They are the mythology of the technology driven post World 494 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 3: War two world, and like myths from other times, they 495 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 3: tell a story about our fears and our aspirations. Strange 496 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 3: Arrivals is a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and Mild 497 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 3: from Aaron Manky. 498 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: This episode was written and hosted by Toby Ball and 499 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: produced by Rima El Kali, Jesse Funk, and Noemi Griffin, 500 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: with executive producers Alexander Williams, Matt Frederick and Aaron and 501 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: supervising producer Josh Thame. Learn more about the show at 502 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: Grimminmild dot com, slash Strange Arrivals and find more podcasts 503 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio by visiting the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 504 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.