1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: is Robert. 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 3: Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. And to begin today's episode, 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 3: I want to start by sketching out a little scenario 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 3: to help you imagine something and investigate your intuitions. So 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 3: I want you to imagine you are waiting on a 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,279 Speaker 3: friend in the lobby of a casino hotel. Maybe you're 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 3: in Las Vegas, and you realize you've got some time 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 3: to kill, maybe fifteen minutes before your friend gets there, 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 3: and you've got a few spare bucks in your pocket. 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 3: You kind of get the itch to go blow it 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 3: on one of the slot machines that keeps making all 14 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 3: these exciting noises nearby. And by the way, this is 15 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 3: just to illustrate a point. This is not behavior that 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 3: we're necessarily advising, because, oh, I don't know, we've done 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 3: episodes on slot machines before, and you know, even if 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 3: you plan to lose all the money you bet, there's 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 3: always the chance that you just might have too much 20 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 3: fun with them. 21 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Back in twenty fifteen, we did an episode titled 22 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: one arm Bandits the Science of slot machines, and I 23 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: found it rather illuminating myself. So I'd recommend anyone who's 24 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: interested and just just to what extent these are fair 25 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 2: or unfair, I recommend go back and listen to that 26 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 2: episode spoiler the House always wins. 27 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: I haven't been to Vegas, but from what I understand, 28 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 3: there's a lot of fun stuff to do other than gambling. 29 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Vegas is great. My family and I went 30 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: out there for the first time a few months back, 31 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: and yeah, there's some great restaurants. You see the Hoover 32 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: Dam not too far away, and they have a tremendous 33 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: male wolf, so lot to see. 34 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 3: There is that one Omega Mart. 35 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: That's Omega Mart. Yeah it's special. It's pretty great. 36 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: But anyway, so back to the scenario. So you decide 37 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 3: you're going to blow some money at a slot machine. 38 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 3: You go up to the machine, you put your money in, 39 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 3: but you're new to this and you don't see the 40 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 3: button that spins the digital wheel. So you start looking 41 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 3: around and there's a lady sitting at the slot machine 42 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 3: next to you, and she plays these things all the time. 43 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 3: She sees you scanning the machine in confusion, and she 44 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 3: leans over and says it's right here, and she reaches 45 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 3: across and presses the button for you, And then you 46 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 3: see the wheel spin on the digital screen. It slows down, 47 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: there's a ding, and it's a bus. Do you lose 48 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 3: your bet? Now? Everybody's reaction to the scenario might be 49 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: somewhat different, but I think an extremely common reaction for 50 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 3: people to have would be annoyance and a feeling of 51 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 3: having been wronged by the woman who pushed the button 52 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 3: for you. And this could be for a number of reasons. 53 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 3: Some of those reasons might be purely social, like it 54 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 3: might feel like a violation of your personal space by 55 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: a stranger. You might be upset that somebody robbed you 56 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 3: of the fun of pressing a button, because sometimes it 57 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 3: can be fun to press a button. But beyond all that, 58 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 3: I think a very common reaction, even among people who 59 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: rationally know better, would be a feeling of having been cheated. 60 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 3: This random stranger didn't just invade your personal space and 61 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 3: interrupt your fun. She lost your money for you. It's 62 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 3: her fault you lost that money and did not win. 63 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: At the same time, you would probably realize correctly that 64 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: a slot machine is not a game of skill. It's 65 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,399 Speaker 3: a game of chance, and thus it literally makes no 66 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: difference whatsoever to your probability of winning whether you push 67 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 3: the button or someone else does. It is not as 68 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 3: if you placed a bet on, you know, throwing darts 69 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: at a dartboard or something where conceivably you might be 70 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 3: better at hitting the center than the person who throws 71 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: the dart for you. Everybody knows that with the slot machine, 72 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 3: it truly does not matter who presses the button. And yet, 73 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 3: even though we know this rationally, I think I think 74 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: if I personally were in this situation, it would be 75 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 3: really hard for me to shake the feeling that this 76 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 3: stranger had cheated me out of possible winnings. So I 77 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: would know it's not true, but it would just be 78 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: an extremely tenacious illusion that whoever presses the button really matters. 79 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is interesting to think about it. I hadn't 80 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: really thought about it so much. You know, we'll get 81 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: into the idea of other rituals associated with this sort 82 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 2: of behavior, like, you know, am I wearing my lucky 83 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: shirt or not? When I go to gamble, or when 84 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 2: I go to watch my favorite sports team or take 85 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: a test, et cetera. So it's interesting to think about 86 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: how this scenario I push the button versus a stranger 87 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 2: pushes the button. How that compares or doesn't compare to 88 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: the luck related scenario of I push the button with 89 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 2: my lucky shirt on or I push the button without 90 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 2: my lucky shirt on. Are we more likely to disregard 91 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: the logic of the latter? What have we left the 92 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: stranger wear our lucky shirt? That still doesn't seem right? 93 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, these are all you know, who presses the button, 94 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 3: whether they're wearing their lucky charm or not. These are 95 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 3: all variations on the idea that there is something you 96 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 3: can do to increase or decrease your chance of winning 97 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: at the slot machine. And it's just not true, Like, 98 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 3: none of these things influence what your chances of winning are. 99 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: Your chances are equally low no matter what. 100 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, your chances are all locked up in that machine already, 101 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: they are programmed into it. And who pushes that button? 102 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: Who actually ends up executing the final the final button push, 103 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: whatever form that takes in a given gambling machine, it's 104 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: already been figured out by the. 105 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 3: Machine, right, And so I sketched out this scenario to 106 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 3: illustrate a concept in psychology called the illusion of control. 107 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 3: So the illusion of control refers to a common type 108 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 3: of cognitive illusion, a mistaken pattern of reasoning in which 109 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 3: we overestimate the extent to which our choices or behavior 110 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 3: can effect outcomes, even totally random or uncontrollable outcomes. So, 111 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 3: according to illusion of control theory, either we think we 112 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: have control over an outcome when we have no control 113 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 3: at all, or we do have some control, but we 114 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: think we have more control than we actually do. So 115 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: today we're kicking off a series where we're going to 116 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 3: take a look at research on the illusion of control, 117 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 3: to what extent the concept is a valid description of 118 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: how we think, what the evidence for it is, some 119 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,799 Speaker 3: criticisms of the concept, how it works in theory and practice, 120 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 3: and why we might experience it to the extent that 121 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 3: we do. 122 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's going to be interesting to talk about 123 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 2: this and think about it, especially in a world that 124 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: can very often feel rather out of our control, and 125 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 2: that as well discuss plays into the whole scenario. 126 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 3: That's right. But before we dive into the research on 127 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 3: this subject, I thought it would be good to kick 128 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 3: off with some just classic examples that we can think 129 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 3: of from day to day life stuff. You don't even 130 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 3: need an experiment to see. You can just you know, 131 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 3: it happens to us all the time we do it. 132 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 3: You already mentioned Rob the idea of lucky rituals that 133 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: people put in place to help steer the outcome of 134 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 3: a public event on which the ritual has no rational 135 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 3: reason to have any influence. So whether your football team 136 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 3: wins that, you know, does that depend on whether you're 137 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: wearing your lucky shirt. And people might participate in lucky 138 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 3: rituals like this for a number of different reasons. Not 139 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 3: all of those reasons would be a genuine expectation that 140 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 3: it will help influence the outcome of the event. But 141 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 3: to the extent that someone does feel it will actually 142 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 3: change the probability of you getting the outcome you want, 143 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 3: that would be an example of the illusion of control. 144 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because sometimes these activities, you know, various lucky items. 145 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's probably more in the fun category than anything. 146 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: You know, you wear your lucky scarf to go enjoy 147 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: a football game other football fans. You know, yeah, it's 148 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: just a fun thing to. 149 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 3: Do, or just to regulate your own emotions. Like it 150 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 3: might be literally functional, but operating on the self instead 151 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: of on the external world. 152 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and as always, you know, to what degree 153 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 2: does something become maladaptive or a hindrance. I mean, you 154 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: do hear cases of Okay, someone's wearing their their lucky 155 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: shirt to a game. Okay, fair, someone's wearing their lucky 156 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 2: underwear to a game. Fair, Someone's wearing their lucky underwear 157 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 2: to this game and they wore it to last game 158 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 2: and hasn't been washed since last game. You hear about 159 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: cases like that as well. And I don't know, I 160 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: think maybe in some of those cases there's another discussion 161 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: to have there, But I don't know. Sports and their rituals. 162 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: There's a lot going on here. 163 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the version that's truly maladaptive. 164 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: Now other times, you know, I think we shouldn't dismiss 165 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: the importance of religious faith in all of this, particularly 166 00:08:54,080 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: regarding amulets. Various traditions, various religions out there have some 167 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 2: sort of an amulant tradition, some sort of essentially a 168 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: lucky charm tradition, be it a crucifix or a small 169 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 2: statue of a deity that you may carry around with 170 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: you and that may be used casually or you know, 171 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: very devotedly. There are different approaches to that as well. 172 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: There's all spectrum in that area of religious faith as well. Well. 173 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'd say that might well be one of 174 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 3: those things that is literally efficacious in some way. Maybe 175 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 3: not in the sense of changing the outcome of a 176 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 3: game or something, but it does change something about you 177 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 3: and is helpful in that way. 178 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 179 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 180 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: And then there's the notion that a lot of times 181 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: the addition of a lucky totem or a lucky practice 182 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: of some sort very often does not necessarily induce added 183 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: cost or burden. You know, even if we're mostly dismissive 184 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: of the idea that said item or said activity will 185 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: enhance our luck or will make some sort of experience 186 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: you know, passes buy with more ease. And even if 187 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: we're not we don't have a huge investment in that idea. 188 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 2: It kind of comes down to, well, why not, right, 189 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: is it going to hurt? I might as well have 190 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 2: the amulet on me. Maybe it will help if there's 191 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: a one percent chance it helps, great, because all it 192 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 2: is just setting in my pocket. 193 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 3: Right and you know, I plan to get into this 194 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 3: more in one of the later episodes in the series, 195 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 3: maybe in part two. But there is a question of 196 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 3: to the extent that we experience an illusion of control, 197 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: why do we experience one? Are there ways in which 198 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 3: it might actually be beneficial to human life even if 199 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 3: it's generating false beliefs? 200 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean we kind of get into that basic 201 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 2: area of like, yeah, and it makes life a little easier, 202 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: and it's not hurting you, it's not hurting other people, 203 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: then why not? 204 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: Okay? I want to mention another example from everyday life. 205 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 3: This one comes up a lot when people think about 206 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: illusion of control. The closed door button on an elevator. 207 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 3: Does that button actually do anything? I think this example 208 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 3: actually has two levels of possible illusion of control. The 209 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 3: first one and we can quibble with whether this counts 210 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 3: as illusion of control or not. But the first level 211 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 3: is the question of whether the closed door button actually 212 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 3: closes the door. I was reading some articles about this 213 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: and was getting some contradictory conclusions from them, but like 214 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 3: according to there was an article in the New York 215 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 3: Times that cited some people in the elevator industry who 216 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 3: says who say that in most cases the button actually 217 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 3: does not change how fast the door closes. Maybe it 218 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 3: does in some percentage of elevators, but in the majority, 219 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 3: at least within the United States, it doesn't. I was 220 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 3: reading in another article that lifts in the UK are 221 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 3: more likely to have a fully functional closed door button 222 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 3: that does accelerate how fast the door shut. Elevators in 223 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 3: the US most of the time close on a timer, 224 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: and even when the closed door button is functional, it 225 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 3: probably works on a delay from when you press it 226 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 3: instead of immediately, So it's really questionable how much faster, 227 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 3: if at all, the doors will close after the button 228 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 3: is pressed. So I think the answer is not totally 229 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 3: clear on how often the closed door button does anything 230 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 3: in the States, but many people consider these buttons in 231 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 3: the US just a placebo. It does nothing except maybe 232 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 3: makes the passengers feel better. 233 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like the closed door button exists mostly 234 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 2: to enhance the awkwardness of reaching for the open door button. 235 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 2: When someone tries to catch the elevator behind you one 236 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 2: of the doors close closing, will they correctly assume that 237 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: you were trying to help them, or will they think 238 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: that you were desperately trying to keep them from boarding 239 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 2: the elevator Like close faster. No one else on this 240 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: elevator with. 241 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 3: Me that's a good point. Now, on the other hand, 242 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: I think you could make a good case that the 243 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 3: closed door button shouldn't count as illusion of control because 244 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 3: there is genuine ambiguity about whether it does something or not, Like, 245 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 3: people really don't have information that should tell them whether 246 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: or not it works, and there's a reasonable assumption that 247 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 3: it should work. So pressing it is even whether or 248 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 3: not it works because you have a reasonable expectation that 249 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: it would. 250 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it says it works. You're just doing what the 251 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: button is inviting you to. 252 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 3: Do, exactly. But there's the second level of door closed 253 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 3: button that I think is definitely illusion of control, which 254 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 3: is have you ever seen somebody who's in a hurry 255 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 3: they get in an elevator, they not only press the button, 256 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 3: which may or may not work, they press the button 257 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 3: after watching somebody else press it already, like, oh, the 258 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 3: other guy didn't press it, right, I need to press 259 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 3: it to make sure it'll work. 260 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean sometimes you get on board an 261 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 2: elevator and there's this moment of uncertainty did the other 262 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 2: person press it? You didn't see them press it, you 263 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 2: would maybe assume they did, and it might be a 264 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: little awkward if you press it now, because then you're 265 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 2: saying like, I'm not sure you did this right, I'm 266 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,599 Speaker 2: not sure you did it. I'm going to press it, 267 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 2: but yeah, if you see them do it, that is 268 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 2: an extra level of social awkwardness right there. And I 269 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: guess you're leaning into the idea that, Okay, if I 270 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: press it more then it'll be more likely. 271 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: To comply exactly. Yeah, maybe there is reasoning of that sort, 272 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,599 Speaker 3: like I wonder if button presses are cumulative. 273 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. I often fall into this as well. I mean, 274 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: I'll do this thing where I go to use the 275 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: clicker to lock the car, and I won't press it once. 276 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: I'll press it two or three times, which confounds members 277 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: of my family when I do this, But for some reason, 278 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: like it just feels like three is more certain, even 279 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 2: though there's no cumulative effect there. There's not like, Okay, 280 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: if you press it three times to lock, you have 281 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 2: to press it three times to unlock it, which I 282 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: don't know. I'd kind of like that feature personally, but 283 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: that's just not how it works. One click should do it, 284 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: but my mind thinks additional clicks would be necessary. 285 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 3: Triples is best. Then you know it's safe. 286 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 2: That's true, but it's not true. It's just one of 287 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: those things we do. Another thing, another like clear example 288 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: of this one that I think a lot of us 289 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: encounter rather frequent, and another potential placebo button is the 290 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: crosswalk button, and a lot of the same situations apply here. 291 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: You know, you get up there to the crosswalk, there's 292 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 2: someone else already standing there. You assume they pressed it already, 293 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 2: but you're gonna press it as well, or you're waiting 294 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 2: on it. Seems to be taking forever. You know it's 295 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 2: been pressed, you've pressed it once, Maybe press it two 296 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 2: or three more times to let it know that you 297 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 2: mean business. You need to get across the street, Throw 298 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: up the red light, throw up the little green walk 299 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: in or white or light up walking man. 300 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 3: Also, as with the elevator button, there's legitimate question over 301 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 3: whether the button does anything or not. 302 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: That's right. I was looking into this a little bit, 303 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: and the broad answer on whether the cross button works 304 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: at all seems to be a resounding. It depends so 305 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 2: different countries, different city traffic systems, They're gonna have the 306 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: button function differently. Sometimes it actually speeds up crossings, other 307 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: times it doesn't. But what do we do? We push 308 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: it anyway, And part of that is again, standing there, 309 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: you probably don't have anything else to do, Push it 310 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 2: a few more times and see if it works. 311 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 3: As we already established, sometimes it's just fun to push 312 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 3: a button. 313 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're in a situation where you either 314 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: have no control or you realize you have a limited 315 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 2: amount of control. What can you do. You can't get 316 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: out there and stop cars, you can't stop traffic, but 317 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 2: you can press the button again and again, and it 318 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 2: feels like at least you're doing something now. The illusion 319 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: of control also applies to situations in which we know 320 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 2: experience anxiety due to perceived lack of control. And one 321 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: of these, and I can relate to this a bit, 322 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: is flying. Two examples I've read about with this scenario. 323 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: Or of course, there's of course pre enduring flight routines. 324 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: Many of these are so slight that we might not 325 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 2: even think about them as being pre flight rituals having 326 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 2: to do with an illusion of control. The examples given 327 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: in the Air Travel Design Guide include things like wearing 328 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: comfy clothing or brushing on one's teeth before a flight. 329 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: I don't know, I those just sound like good things 330 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: to do before a long flight. 331 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, but they also controlling an outcome. I mean that 332 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 3: just seems like that's what you do to feel good. 333 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, But I mean, I guess, and I can relate 334 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 2: to this a bit. It's like, maybe, like feeling good 335 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: is that thing you have control over, and so maybe 336 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: you've become more indulgent of those in a way to 337 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: sort of, you know, to make something that can be 338 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 2: uncomfortable more comfortable, which is just obviously you want to 339 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: do that. But also it's like so many things are 340 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 2: out of my control here, but the exact headpillow have 341 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: I have is in my control. The exact playlist I 342 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 2: download ahead of time is in my control. How you 343 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: know which movie I downloaded my phone prior to the flight, 344 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 2: that's within my control. I will do that, and I'll 345 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 2: put a lot of effort into. 346 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 3: That, and maybe from all of that effort at control, 347 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 3: there could be some conceptual creep where actually it makes 348 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: you feel like the plane is less likely to crash. 349 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, and I don't even know if necessarily 350 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: everyone's mind directly goes there, you know, but it's like, 351 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: you know, you're you're dealing with one thing that they 352 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: When I was reading this ear Travel Design Guide website 353 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 2: that they pointed out, you know, it's like there's a 354 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 2: lot going on when you fly. Obviously, you know you're 355 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: you're traveling, your your your your circadian rhythms are are interrupted, 356 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 2: you may eat lunch three times in a given day, 357 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 2: that sort of thing, and then there are all these 358 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: other constraints. So there's a lot going on in the 359 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 2: mind and in the body. They also cite gamification as 360 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 2: a as a way that we interact with this illusion 361 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: of control. I found this bit interesting. This is a quote. 362 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: The airport is a unique type of architectural typology where 363 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 2: the spaces are subdivided and arranged to usher large groups 364 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 2: of people to move uni directionally. This encourages people to 365 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: develop strategies to game the system and to feel competitive 366 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 2: with other passengers moving through the airport. 367 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's right. I feel seen that. That's 368 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 3: like I do not I'm not normally a competitive walker, 369 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 3: like trying to get ahead of people walking, you know, 370 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 3: around me on the sidewalk. The only scenario in which 371 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 3: I catch myself doing that is at the airport, and 372 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 3: I want, yeah, that may be right. That it's like, 373 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 3: because it's funnel, you know, structured to have everybody moving 374 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 3: in the same direction, and it's so yeah, controlled like that. 375 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 3: It's some for some reason, makes you feel like I've 376 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 3: got to get in front of this this guy here, 377 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: you know, I've got Yeah. 378 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 2: So it's interesting to think about it from a design 379 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 2: standpoint where a lot of control needs to be taken 380 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 2: away from people going through this system, but you also 381 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: need to give them a sense of control, control over 382 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: little things, and and also realize that there's going to 383 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 2: be this illusion of control in place as well. But 384 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: you have another example to to to bring up here, 385 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 2: and this one is even more fun than flying. Oh. 386 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 3: I wonder if you had the same experience. So I 387 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 3: was thinking back to childhood, and this may be an 388 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 3: embarrassing admission, but I'm thinking about the illusory functionality of 389 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 3: objectively non responsive video game controls. A couple of examples here. 390 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 3: I am at the Pizza Hut. I'm a little kid. 391 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 3: I desperately want to play the Neogo machine or the 392 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 3: X Men Arcade cabinet, but I have no quarters, so 393 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 3: I can't play. But while these machines are idle, there 394 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 3: is a kind of pre recorded gameplay demo that loops 395 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 3: on the screen, so it looks like somebody's playing. You know, 396 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 3: the characters are walking around fighting the bad guys and stuff, 397 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 3: and according to vague memories, I can't be sure I'm 398 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 3: right about this, but I think I would sometimes go 399 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 3: up to the machine and falsely believe that I was 400 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 3: maybe somewhat partially controlling the gameplay in this demo by 401 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 3: moving the joystick around without putting money in. Or maybe 402 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 3: what I'm remembering is that I would stare at the 403 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 3: machine while the demo's going, and I would not be 404 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 3: touching it, but I would be imagining that this were possible. 405 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 3: Another variation is a trick. Sometimes I think people would 406 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 3: play on their little siblings with home video game consoles, 407 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 3: so instead of fighting over whose turn it is to 408 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 3: play Mario, maybe the big sister actually plays Mario and 409 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 3: gives the little sister another controller which is not plugged 410 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 3: in to make her think she's playing, while actually she's 411 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,239 Speaker 3: just watching the big sister play on the screen and 412 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 3: pressing buttons that do nothing. I recall this happening around 413 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 3: me and being surprisingly convincing. 414 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 2: I guess maybe's more convincing with some games than others, 415 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: But I remember I did this as well with arcade 416 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 2: games when I was a little kid, and arguably with 417 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: I mean X Men Arcade Cabinet. That was a pretty 418 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 2: great game. But on the other hand, you're probably better 419 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 2: off just thinking you were playing it. Looking back at 420 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 2: it from a modern standpoint. 421 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 3: I really liked being Colossus and doing the roar. 422 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the yeah, it's funny. I had an experience 423 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 2: with just this the other day. We were out to 424 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,959 Speaker 2: eat at a place that had arcade machines and they 425 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: were old arcade machines, and my son and one of 426 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: his friends and my son's eleven. Now, they went up 427 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 2: to these machines and I hadn't given them any quarters, 428 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 2: and I think I should give them some quarters so 429 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: they can play these machines. But they're over there moving 430 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 2: the sticks around, watching the screen, and I was like, oh, 431 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 2: I think they're just pretending to play. 432 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 3: Oh. 433 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 2: And then I was like, I think maybe they're a 434 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: little too old to be doing that. And then I 435 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: asked them, do you guys want some real quarters? They're like, oh, 436 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 2: these machines are free, so it was a non issue. 437 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, the reaches, you reach a point where 438 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 2: you outgrow it for sure, where You don't just want 439 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 2: to watch the games. You don't just want to watch 440 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: other people play these games. You want to get in there, 441 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 2: even if you are going to fail miserably and just 442 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 2: have to sing more quarters in the thing. 443 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 3: I will pay the endless tax to be Colosses. Yeah. Wait, 444 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 3: what was your X Men Arcade game character? 445 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: Oh? You know, oftentimes when I would play, there were 446 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: like a lot of people, so it's like whoever you 447 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 2: could get. But you know, obviously Colossus will Cyclops was 448 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 2: pretty great. He had the ibam attack, you know, that 449 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 2: would really tear up the screen. 450 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 3: I remember Colossus was my first pick and night Crawler 451 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 3: was my second. 452 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he had a good attack as well. I 453 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 2: mean really, I would just be happy. I was happy 454 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 2: to be playing the X Men Arcade game. 455 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 3: All right, Well, I think maybe we should talk about 456 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 3: some of the research history on the illusion of control, 457 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 3: some of the papers that have explored this topic in 458 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 3: the past. And though this phenomenon had been I think 459 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 3: noticed previously in a variety of ways. It gets the 460 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 3: name illusion of control from important research by the American 461 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 3: psychologist Ellen J. Langer, who published a paper in nineteen 462 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 3: seventy five called the Illusion of Control in the Journal 463 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 3: of Personality and Social Psychology. 464 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 2: Langer was born in nineteen forty seven. She's also known 465 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: for her work on aging and mindfulness theory. I also 466 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 2: want to call out that she was a series consultant 467 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 2: on a BBC series title The Young Ones. But this 468 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 2: is not the classic comedy series, but rather a documentary 469 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: that explored reminiscence therapy. 470 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 3: I'm not familiar either way. What's the comedy series? 471 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 2: Oh, the Young Ones? Oh? This is a classic British 472 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 2: comedy series about these young men living in a like 473 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 2: a dormitory house type situation. Yeah, and they would also 474 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 2: have musical guests on the show, like Motorhead was on 475 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 2: one of the episodes. 476 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 3: Nice. 477 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, classic classic series. I'm sure it may 478 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 2: have come up in passing on Weird House Cinema before, 479 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: but I have a feeling in the future we'll probably 480 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: touch on some films on Weird House Cinema that include 481 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 2: actors from that show. All right, But The Young Ones 482 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: a series that she was associated This is a documentary 483 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 2: series that came like decades later. 484 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: Okay, okay. But in the nineteen seventy five paper The 485 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: Illusion of Control, Langer defined the phenomenon more narrowly than 486 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 3: we've been talking about. She defined the illusion of control 487 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 3: as quote, an expectancy of a personal success probability inappropriately 488 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 3: higher than the objective probability would warrant. So I'm not 489 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 3: going to do a detailed breakdown of Langer's full paper here, 490 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 3: because there are like six experiments total a lot of 491 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 3: variables being tested, but I'll summarize the main idea and 492 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 3: a couple of highlights that stuck out to me. So 493 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 3: her intro mentions a bunch of different reasons for thinking that, 494 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 3: in her words, quote, while people may pay lip service 495 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 3: to the concept of chance, they behave as though chance 496 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 3: events are subject to control. And she produces a lot 497 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 3: of examples given to provide prima facie evidence of this 498 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 3: idea before the experiments are carried out. And one of 499 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 3: these examples that I thought was interesting was a sociological 500 00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 3: observation of how people treat dice when gambling. She mentioned 501 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 3: particularly behavior observed by Hinslin in nineteen sixty seven. So 502 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 3: the idea is, if you watch people playing a dice 503 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 3: based game, maybe you're in a casino in Vegas again, 504 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 3: and you go up to a craps table. Whatever their 505 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 3: true beliefs about chance or skill being involved in this game, 506 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 3: and it is a game of chance, their externally visible 507 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 3: behavior implies that they think they have some degree of 508 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 3: control over the numbers they roll with the dice. Examples 509 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 3: here would include that people tend to roll dice more 510 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 3: softly if they want to roll low numbers, and throw 511 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 3: the dice hard if they want to roll high numbers. 512 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 3: They appear to concentrate in preparation for the dice throw 513 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 3: the same way a person would concentrate before like doing 514 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 3: a skill based throw, like an aimed throw if they're 515 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 3: playing darts or something. And this belief in dice rolls 516 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 3: as a skilled activity also seem to be present and 517 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 3: observers because other people at the table would tend to 518 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 3: bet with a person who appeared to be exerting more 519 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 3: control in this way. 520 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: Oh that's fascinating, you know, you know, I don't gamble 521 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: with the dice, but I do throw some D twenties 522 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 2: pretty much every week in Dungeons and Dragons, and I 523 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 2: know that I do catch myself. I hadn't really thought 524 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 2: about it before, but like, if I'm rolling especially an 525 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 2: important D twenty I'm gonna I'm gonna put a little 526 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 2: time and effort into it, and there's gonna be a pause. 527 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 2: I'm gonna make sure my form is right. I'm gonna 528 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 2: make sure I get an appropriate clatter, you know. From that, 529 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 2: From that that twenty as I give it a roll. 530 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 3: I do exactly the same thing, and I it feels 531 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 3: like I can roll the dice better or worse. I 532 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 3: know that I can't. 533 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still gonna get a natural one here and there, 534 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 2: but but it feels better for some reason. 535 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 3: And to be fair, dice rolls in reality are probably 536 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 3: not perfectly random, like I think. I've read about gambling 537 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 3: cheats who with a lot of training claim that they 538 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 3: can learn ways to hold or toss the dice so 539 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 3: as to increase the chances of getting the role they want. 540 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 3: I think, especially if they do things you're not allowed 541 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 3: to do, like sliding the dice on the velvet instead 542 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 3: of actually throlling it, throwing them so they tumble. But anyway, 543 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 3: for the vast, vast majority of regular gamblers, this is 544 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 3: not the case. People cannot do this most for the 545 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 3: most part, and dice can be treated as effectively random 546 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 3: if they weren't effectively, random casinos would not use them. 547 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: That's right. 548 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 3: Anyway. To come back to Langer's paper from seventy five, 549 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 3: so to test for an illusion of control, which she hypothesized, 550 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 3: she did six experiments in which chance based games had 551 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 3: various elements that we would associate with skill based games 552 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 3: introduced and this was her idea. It was that if 553 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: you make a game feel like it is skill based 554 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 3: even though it's clearly not, people will be confused into 555 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 3: thinking that they have control over outcomes that they actually don't. 556 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 3: For one example, one variable that is explored in this 557 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 3: paper is the variable of competition. If you are competing 558 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 3: against an opponent in a skill based game, the ability 559 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 3: of your opponent determines your likelihood of winning. Therefore, if 560 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 3: you're placing bets on whether or not you're gonna win, 561 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 3: how much you bet will in part depend on how 562 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 3: good your opponent is at the game. So you know, 563 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 3: if you're playing chess against a chess pro, you're probably 564 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 3: gonna bet less or maybe bet nothing. If you're playing 565 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 3: chess against somebody you perceive as worse than you at chess, 566 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 3: you will probably bet more. Of course, if it's a 567 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 3: purely chance based game, there is no relevant skill variable. 568 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 3: So if you're offered the chance to bet on outcomes, 569 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 3: your betting behavior should be based on something else, maybe 570 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 3: social factors, maybe just baseline appetite for risk, maybe a 571 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 3: desire to be seen by others as taking risks, etc. 572 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 3: It should be based on something other than your perception 573 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 3: of whether you're likely to win based on how good 574 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 3: your opponent is. That doesn't make any difference in a 575 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 3: chance based game. So in the first experiment described in 576 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 3: the study, Langer had people play a purely chance based 577 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 3: card game. The game was high card draw between two players. 578 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 3: No skill involved, pure luck of the draw. You pick 579 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 3: a card out of the deck. Is your card higher 580 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 3: than the other person's. Is there any room in looking 581 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 3: at that game to think I'm better than other people 582 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 3: at this? There shouldn't be. But the independent variable manipulated 583 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 3: by the experimenters here was the behavior and appearance of 584 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 3: your opponent. Do they seem confident and self assured or 585 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 3: do they seem awkward and nervous and prepared to lose? 586 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 3: In other words, are you playing against somebody who feels 587 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 3: like a winner or not? And remember, there's no logical 588 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 3: reason anybody should be a winner at this game. There's 589 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 3: zero skill involved, and yet the experiment did find that 590 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 3: people were willing to bet significantly more against a competitor 591 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 3: who seemed awkward and nervous than they were against a 592 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 3: competitor who seemed outgoing and confident. Now, I think this 593 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 3: is a really interesting result, but it's important to note 594 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 3: the limitations of this experimental design, and Langer herself flags 595 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 3: some of these limitations in the paper, so they didn't 596 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 3: go unnoticed by the authors here. So it seems like this. 597 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 3: It seems likely that this result could be caused by 598 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 3: a mistaken perception that skill or control would somehow factor 599 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 3: into this random game, But you can't be sure that's 600 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 3: the cause guiding the differences in how people bet. Maybe 601 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 3: other variables are operating here in response to the behavior 602 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 3: and appearance of the competitor. Maybe they have to do 603 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 3: with how the subject wants to be perceived in terms 604 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 3: of taking risks or not. Who knows. There could be 605 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 3: other things at work here. So that's the competition element, 606 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 3: which Langer concludes could make a chance based game have 607 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 3: illusory qualities of a skill based game. Other elements like 608 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 3: this explored in the paper are choice. So the idea 609 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 3: is if you give people a choice over, say, which 610 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 3: lottery ticket they receive. Of course it makes no difference 611 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 3: in the probability of winning, it increases their feeling of 612 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 3: the likelihood of winning, though with the choice element in particular. 613 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 3: There's a study I came across from twenty twenty one. 614 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 3: I might get into this more in the second episode, 615 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 3: but that study undercuts specifically the choice variable in particular, 616 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 3: So whether or not choice has this effect is up 617 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 3: for debate. But other ones explored in this paper are 618 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 3: familiarity with the game or with elements of the game. 619 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 3: So familiarity would be associated with a better chance of 620 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 3: winning a skill based game. Right, if you've played the 621 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 3: game before, you're probably better at it. You're more likely 622 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 3: to win. In a chance game, it doesn't matter. But 623 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 3: the study found that familiarity made people more confident in 624 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 3: their ability to win. 625 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 2: Okay, I mean I could see where like if you 626 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 2: know that what the odds are, even if you know 627 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 2: the odds are slim, like you do the math, You're like, 628 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 2: all right, I have a five percent chance of pulling 629 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 2: the right card. You know you could Still there's still 630 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: plenty of room in the human psyche to lean into 631 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: that and think I've got a five percent shot. That's 632 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: that's a non zero percent chance of winning this game. 633 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 3: Well, and there are games that have that are largely 634 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 3: determined by chance, but also have skill elements where familiarity 635 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 3: can make a big difference. Like I would say familiarity 636 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 3: with playing poker probably makes a big difference in how 637 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 3: well you do, because how well you do in poker 638 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 3: is a mix of chance and skill. You know, it's 639 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 3: the chance of what cards you draw, but also the 640 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 3: skill of like your betting strategy and all that. 641 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it also comes down to, like, what 642 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 2: does it mean to lose in a given game. I 643 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 2: haven't played much in the way of poker, but it's 644 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,479 Speaker 2: my understanding like a game like poker gambling games where 645 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 2: actual money of any value is involved, losing just sucks. 646 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 2: There's no fun in losing. If you're losing at the game, 647 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 2: you're not having a good time. Whereas, and certainly you 648 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 2: can take that attitude, unfortunately into any gaming scenario. But 649 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 2: if you're doing it right, losing or rolling poorly, whatever 650 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 2: the exact form this takes in say, Dungeons and Dragons 651 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 2: is not necessarily bad, it can be a great moment 652 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 2: for character development, storytelling, and so forth. Likewise, just for 653 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 2: fun games like I'll play a bit of this little 654 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 2: phone game called Marvel Snap. It's pretty fun. You're not 655 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 2: betting any real money on it, and sometimes like losing. 656 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 2: Sometimes losing is like earlier, but other times it's amusing 657 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 2: to see how the other person beats you. And then 658 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 2: sometimes you know, you know, okay, I've got a very 659 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 2: slim chance of pulling this combo off or you know 660 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 2: this real hail Mary maneuver to use a sports term, 661 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 2: But sometimes you go for it because you don't have 662 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 2: money on the line. It's not the end of the world. 663 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 2: If you lose, you're likely to lose, but if there's 664 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 2: a small chance you're going to pull off something amazing, 665 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 2: you go for it. And you do that in games 666 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 2: like Dungeons and Dragons as well. 667 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 3: That's right, and this highlights that, I mean, a big 668 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 3: thing about studying games is that there are different reasons 669 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 3: people play games, and not all games are just about winning. 670 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 3: I think one reason that games like this, if you're 671 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 3: going to study them in terms of trying to find 672 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 3: people's real motivation to win, you need things like cash prizes, 673 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 3: because that makes the winning condition really meaningful. Yeah, because yeah, 674 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 3: if there's not money involved, I'm just like, I don't know, 675 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 3: it's fun to just play a weird game and lose 676 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 3: and not know what you're doing. 677 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 2: I mean, where a game like high card draw, it's 678 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 2: only going to be interesting if there's money involved. 679 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 3: In missum exactly. But anyway, coming back, so, this study 680 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 3: found in its experiments that familiarity with a game, even 681 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 3: a game purely of chance, where familiarity would actually not 682 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 3: make any difference at all, people still seem to behave 683 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 3: as if they thought it made a difference. Another variable 684 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 3: looked at in these experiments was the subject's level of involvement. 685 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 3: You know, how involved or hands on are you with 686 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 3: the process that decides the winner. So, in general, this 687 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 3: original nineteen seventy five paper found that, yes, experiments do 688 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 3: find that adding in elements that superficially remind people of 689 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 3: skill based games increases the illusion of control. And the 690 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 3: research did not stop there. There have been many, many 691 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 3: studies on the illusion of control in the decade since 692 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 3: this paper from nineteen seventy five. There have been sort 693 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 3: of three major branches of investigatory methods to look into 694 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 3: the evidence for the illusion of control and to understand 695 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 3: what variables influence when and the extent to which it occurs. 696 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,720 Speaker 3: There's also been some criticism of the idea and maybe 697 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 3: looking at different theoretical ways to make sense of the 698 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 3: results of these kinds of experiments. And so I think 699 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 3: maybe in the next episode we're going to talk a 700 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 3: bit more about the research history, talk about what some 701 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 3: variables are that determine when people experience an illusion of control, 702 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 3: and look at criticisms of the concept. 703 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 2: All right, so join us next time as we'll continue 704 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 2: this look at the illusion of control. In the meantime, 705 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from everyone out there, because you know, 706 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 2: we've touched on some very basic ideas about human nature 707 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 2: here and specific examples of gameplay and gambling and so forth, 708 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 2: and so I know you're gonna have a lot of 709 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 2: thoughts and we'd love to hear from you, so write in. 710 00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 2: We'll have that email address here at the end of 711 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 2: the oppis a couple other ways to interact with the show. 712 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 2: I haven't no think I've mentioned these recently, but if 713 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 2: you are on the Facebook, there is a Facebook group 714 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 2: for stuff to Blow your mind. It is the stuff 715 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 2: to Blow your Mind discussion module. You just go there. 716 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 2: You ask to be admitted and if I think you 717 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: have to answer a question, that's a very easy one 718 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 2: you should be able to get if you listen to 719 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 2: the show. Also, there is a discord server room. What 720 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 2: have you for, stuff to blow your mind? If you 721 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 2: want to join that, email us and we'll send you 722 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 2: the link. It's that simple. And let's see. What else 723 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,919 Speaker 2: do we mention? Oh? Yeah, thanks to everyone out there 724 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 2: who jumped in and give us a nice rating and 725 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 2: review on the various places where you can do that, 726 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 2: and yeah, continue to ask for that. If you haven't 727 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 2: rated the show and given us a sprinkling of stars, 728 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 2: go ahead and do that because that helps us out. 729 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 2: And likewise, if you listen to the show on an 730 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 2: Apple device, Apple Podcasts and so forth, maybe pop in 731 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 2: and just make sure that you're still subscribed and that 732 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 2: you were receiving downloads. 733 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 734 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 735 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 736 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you 737 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 3: can email us at contact at Stuff to Blow Your 738 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 3: Mind dot com. 739 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 740 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 741 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.