Speaker 1: Let me carry it. Hey, Hey, hey, got thinking of it.
Speaker 2: We're back. We're black. I'm sick and it's run a bit.
Speaker 3: Shit.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm sick again. I'm praying it's not COVID. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's COVID. I've taken to COVID test. It
Speaker 2: says not COVID. I think maybe I don't even know.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what.
Speaker 1: Other ways to be sick. And you get just how
Speaker 1: much sympathy.
Speaker 2: I think it's just I don't know. It might be
Speaker 2: a flu around the season. Sometimes I get like a
Speaker 2: little like the flu or whatever. I mean, there's green
Speaker 2: stuff coming up, so I'm assuming. I'm like, i never
Speaker 2: had green stuff with COVID. I'm sorry, guys, So I know,
Speaker 2: just literally I'm calling my mom like it's like, I
Speaker 2: know that's really what I've been doing, like tea and sleep,
Speaker 2: ta and sleep.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I if you guys have been watching
Speaker 2: my Instagram stories I had. I took the team, my
Speaker 2: business partner took our teams to New Orleans for our
Speaker 2: annual team retreat, which we have not done in two
Speaker 2: years because of COVID. But it was so amazing. I
Speaker 2: have to say New Orleans is such a magical place
Speaker 2: for black and brown people. I mean it just yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, and it was so crazy Mandy because I
Speaker 2: was like we were we were by the waterfront, and
Speaker 2: I was sharing everybody. I said, you see those steps
Speaker 2: right there, those are the steps where Mandy and I
Speaker 2: planned out. Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1: I was like, I read that makes it sound really old.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 1: I was just like my sister was like, really I
Speaker 1: wanted to cording off that step. That student was there
Speaker 1: was I feel like there were free tracks. It was
Speaker 1: somewhere random.
Speaker 2: Well, we were walking like we were walking like like
Speaker 2: you know, we were walking up and down like that
Speaker 2: kind of like the waterfront, and you know, we ended
Speaker 2: up just sitting there just talking for some time about
Speaker 2: like what you know, just a joke because you'd asked
Speaker 2: me how to before. But we just you know, sat
Speaker 2: and just like talked about like, you know, we were
Speaker 2: talking about like at the time, your husband was your boyfriend.
Speaker 2: I don't you know, I think Jiro was my boyfriend too.
Speaker 2: There was no kids in the picture. It was just
Speaker 2: like two brown girls who were like, let's do this thing.
Speaker 1: Just had free time and energy.
Speaker 2: I know, we were there for the FINCN. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it was like, you know, I don't think anybody really
Speaker 2: goes to like unless it's like your friends, like whatever workshop.
Speaker 2: You know that, you know how it is with conferences.
Speaker 2: You go to your friends workshop, but then you really
Speaker 2: go to hang out and have a good time, you know.
Speaker 1: I think so we did personally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was just a really good time. And
Speaker 2: I remember just like obviously I've known you before and
Speaker 2: we were cool because you had done a couple of
Speaker 2: articles on me. But yeah, you were like we should
Speaker 2: do a podcast, and I think I was like, what's
Speaker 2: the podcast?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's interesting my number? Yeah, nobody, y'all's trip locked
Speaker 1: freaking amazing, Like I had a little bit of fomo.
Speaker 1: But also shout out to you for choosing the best weather,
Speaker 1: like the best time to go to you know, essence
Speaker 1: fast is like in the armpit of hell. July. Girl,
Speaker 1: It's like why they got it.
Speaker 2: Just to us day When I said we had a time,
Speaker 2: I mean we had a time. I mean they went
Speaker 2: out every night. And I just was like I canno
Speaker 2: because I could already found myself getting sick because I
Speaker 2: just been doing a lot of travel. I went to
Speaker 2: Detroit to speak at event, and then it was like
Speaker 2: literally landed. It was a list of sweet sixteen and
Speaker 2: then at to fly to LA for an event a
Speaker 2: day later. I was home for one day, then flew
Speaker 2: New Orleans. I just think, honestly, this is like my
Speaker 2: body saying, girl, you need to sit down, or we're
Speaker 2: gonna sit you down and sit too much of a
Speaker 2: good thing. But it was Honestly, it was just awesome.
Speaker 2: Like there's something about hanging out with like your crew
Speaker 2: of people that you really enjoy. And we get to
Speaker 2: see each other. I mean, we see each other all
Speaker 2: the time on Zoom and stuff like that, but it's
Speaker 2: nothing like being in person. We do certain things every
Speaker 2: year for our retreats. We always do a spa day,
Speaker 2: so we did the Roosevelt, which is a wald of
Speaker 2: a historian hotel, which was awesome. We always do like
Speaker 2: a fun day where we do something like fun and
Speaker 2: kind of physical, like one year we did ATV and
Speaker 2: I think this year we went swamp tour like that,
Speaker 2: you know, like you take the airboat. Yes, that was fun.
Speaker 2: We got to feed alligators and crocodile. I don't know
Speaker 2: the difference. We also my favorite though, on our activity
Speaker 2: day was we did a second line band, which.
Speaker 1: That's what I saw at IG that I was like, yes,
Speaker 1: do it up. That was just for y'all.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we use this company, this black owned mother
Speaker 2: daughter company called Prime Time. They're based out of Chicago.
Speaker 2: So if ever ever ever you need to like I
Speaker 2: don't know what other kind of planning they do, but
Speaker 2: if you ever needed planning, like a corporate retreat, they
Speaker 2: were excellent. They flew into New Orleans, made sure everything
Speaker 2: was great. The house they picked for us was amazing.
Speaker 2: So we got like this eight bedroom beautiful home and
Speaker 2: then we got a nearby hotel so that we ever
Speaker 2: could have their own room. So like myself and like
Speaker 2: the other C suite stayed in the house and that's
Speaker 2: where we had a private chef. Our chef was actually
Speaker 2: the great was the granddaughter of Fats Domino, which was
Speaker 2: so awesome. He's like this really famous jazz musician. Yeah,
Speaker 2: out of a New Orleans and so it was just
Speaker 2: an amazing, amazing trip. But yeah, the second Line band,
Speaker 2: I mean that is on my story. My story has
Speaker 2: already passed, but if you go to my page you
Speaker 2: can see us, so you know you I didn't know. Like,
Speaker 2: I was always like, what's the first line band? They're like,
Speaker 2: the band is the first line. I'm like, oh, and
Speaker 2: so you are the second line.
Speaker 1: And so we were thought to even ask what that meant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't really you know, but it's this jazzy
Speaker 2: I mean, it was amazing to have your own parade
Speaker 2: that's what they call it down Bourbon with police escort.
Speaker 2: It was just that was just so epic. It was
Speaker 2: it was like a core memory, you know. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it was just I mean we were like, you know,
Speaker 2: we're so black because we were electric sliding in the
Speaker 2: house we played it. Apparently there's a taboo taboo culture.
Speaker 1: See, that's just part of the trip that I was
Speaker 1: most jealous of. I'm as game nights. I haven't had
Speaker 1: a game night like three years, and I'm like, damn,
Speaker 1: that looks so fun. And I'm so good at taboo too.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna tell you I am. I'm not a lot,
Speaker 2: I'm a taboo massed up.
Speaker 1: You were getting it. I could see the fire.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The other was so sick of us because I'm
Speaker 2: a really good guesser. But I'm also really good, like
Speaker 2: you know, because I'm really good at analogies, yo, but
Speaker 2: it was a lot. I tell you, it was just
Speaker 2: a really good time. And so I'm just grateful for
Speaker 2: the time with the team. And even though I came
Speaker 2: to you sicker than when I left.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you gave them everything, but hopefully have
Speaker 1: some time for yourself now. I do wonder because on
Speaker 1: the last episode you said your budget was like eighty
Speaker 1: k Did you use every penny of it?
Speaker 2: No? So what we decided was because at first I
Speaker 2: remember like, so shout out to Tammy. She was like,
Speaker 2: was kind of like the our internal internal organizer, and
Speaker 2: she was like saying, I guess they didn't have enough,
Speaker 2: like you know, because she came to me she was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: there's all these fun things we're gonna do. We don't
Speaker 2: have enough money. I said, have we not have enough money?
Speaker 2: We have eighty thousand dollars She's liked No. The CFO
Speaker 2: Georgia shared with us that we can use forty and
Speaker 2: I was like, why, So I hit up the CFO,
Speaker 2: like are we saving that money for anything? She's like no,
Speaker 2: because last trip was forty. I'm like, girl, that's how
Speaker 2: the trip to work. The trips work in accordance to
Speaker 2: what we have saved up. Like that's the point, you know,
Speaker 2: this is money that we've collectively made with our efforts.
Speaker 2: We set aside three percent of our net profit, you know.
Speaker 2: And so I said how much we should have? I
Speaker 2: think it was between eighty and eighty five. And I
Speaker 2: asked Tammy and I said, you know, it's sixty enough
Speaker 2: and if it's not, you can come back, and she's like, no, no,
Speaker 2: sixty will be plenty, and so they ended up using sixty.
Speaker 2: So I was like, girl, we released the coins, so
Speaker 2: we still have some money left over it just because
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. This year was a really rough
Speaker 2: year for the Literature Academy, and so I didn't want
Speaker 2: to use the full eighty because I wanted for next
Speaker 2: year that we had some money, you know, set aside
Speaker 2: for to still be able to go on a trip,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It might not be as lavish,
Speaker 2: but I didn't want to, like, you know, totally drain
Speaker 2: our trip account. So yeah, there's about twenty to twenty
Speaker 2: five thousand I was left over for next year, plus
Speaker 2: whatever we make, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, do you mean like rough in terms of
Speaker 1: the like I know, at the beginning of the year,
Speaker 1: it was really tough because you had the layoffs and everything.
Speaker 1: H do you mean like just in terms of like
Speaker 1: morale from all of that, and I don't know, it
Speaker 1: seems like this would be a good way.
Speaker 2: Meaning like I mean financially rough. So a lot of
Speaker 2: my friends also have online schools, and it's it's it's
Speaker 2: I've just been getting that same feedback across the board.
Speaker 2: Because one, ads don't do what they used to do.
Speaker 2: So many of us were like AD dependent, which we're
Speaker 2: trying to switch away from that, but so many of
Speaker 2: us were AD dependent, and so as a result of
Speaker 2: being AD dependent, you know, like you know, as soon
Speaker 2: as they change the rule, an AD that might might
Speaker 2: bring in, you know, tens of thousands of thousand a month,
Speaker 2: all of a sudden brings in nothing. So you're like,
Speaker 2: so what do I do now?
Speaker 1: And so that was you mean like meta like Facebook, Yes, but.
Speaker 2: That's the majority of us wh they're running ads. You're
Speaker 2: running ads on Facebook and Instagram and so like, it's
Speaker 2: just the rules are always changing. So just when you
Speaker 2: get acclimated or you get one thing good going and
Speaker 2: the way ads work, it's a moving train. So let's
Speaker 2: just say they say these are the new rules, and
Speaker 2: you're like, okay, it takes a while for the train
Speaker 2: to get back moving. You know, trains don't go from
Speaker 2: zero to sixty and sixty seconds. It takes a while,
Speaker 2: and so it's just expensive every time you have to pivot.
Speaker 2: Then you have to spend all this money to get
Speaker 2: the train moving, only for them to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: we'll change our mind again. So that's one that we
Speaker 2: were highly AD dependent. But by the end of this
Speaker 2: year that will be different for next year because we've
Speaker 2: been making this shift, like to really lean into working
Speaker 2: and getting contracts instead of leaning on ads. So that's
Speaker 2: one thing that it'll be different next year. And also too, like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not the CEO over there anymore, and
Speaker 2: there's a learning curve for the new CEO, and she
Speaker 2: just was thrown into this messy pot. And so you know,
Speaker 2: I told her because she's like Tam is very, very
Speaker 2: hard working and competitive, and she's like, oh no, I'm
Speaker 2: going to blow it out the water. I said, you won't. Instead,
Speaker 2: your job is just to keep us afloat because you're
Speaker 2: still learning. I have no expectation that you're going to
Speaker 2: do better than me, because how could you? Because this
Speaker 2: would be a challenge for me who's been the CEO
Speaker 2: a CEO for fifteen years, let alone you just started.
Speaker 2: And so she realized it's really hard, you know, because
Speaker 2: there's so much, so many things that have to be
Speaker 2: realigned that were misaligned. And I'm like girl, and she's
Speaker 2: only done a great job of being kind of like
Speaker 2: our months are basically net net. We're making enough to
Speaker 2: cover all the bills, to pay all the payroll, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. But there's not excess, like you know, typically
Speaker 2: I take an excess as a draw, and so I
Speaker 2: haven't seen a draw like a decent one in a
Speaker 2: very long time, you know. But that's okay. My old
Speaker 2: old thing is always are we net net? Meaning like,
Speaker 2: do we make enough to cover everything and pay our
Speaker 2: bills and things that we had been able to do that?
Speaker 2: So I told her that was her goal, and she
Speaker 2: met that goal. And also too, there's just a shift
Speaker 2: in the economy, you know, rightfully, so people are looking
Speaker 2: at their bills and determining what is essential. And I
Speaker 2: tell people all the time, don't give me your last
Speaker 2: like I've seen people say, take I got a credit card,
Speaker 2: but I don't believe it all that. Don't give me
Speaker 2: your last I have a lot of free resources and tools.
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I'm bringing back the Literature Challenges.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to launch the If you're like an old
Speaker 2: school dream catcher, you know, we did a challenge every January,
Speaker 2: and so we'll be doing a Literature Challenge, the Savings
Speaker 2: Edition in January, totally free. It's a three week, free,
Speaker 2: amazing course that walks you literally day by day. I
Speaker 2: give you something small to do to work toward increasing
Speaker 2: your savings.
Speaker 1: I'm excited for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm excited.
Speaker 1: I just I was like the power of the Budgetista.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I missed that. And so I mean, honestly,
Speaker 2: the Academy's gonna be fine. We have been through way worths.
Speaker 2: This is nothing. I remember one time we was down
Speaker 2: to our last ten thousand and bills were thirty and so,
Speaker 2: you know, but because this is just the reality of
Speaker 2: business that as things shift externally and internally, you have
Speaker 2: to pivot and shift. And this is not even the
Speaker 2: worst that we've ever been, you know, on a scale
Speaker 2: of one to ten of oh my gosh, we're in
Speaker 2: trouble ten being big trouble, you know, one being were good.
Speaker 2: I mean we're probably at a five, you know, maybe
Speaker 2: even a four, a four or five, meaning like I'm
Speaker 2: not worried about it because we have all these things
Speaker 2: in place that you know, we're just activating them now.
Speaker 2: So I'm just like, but it's you know, you have
Speaker 2: a plan. Yeah we have exactly for me as long
Speaker 2: as we have a plan. But that's just the way
Speaker 2: of business. And so as a result of that is
Speaker 2: just there's a lot of shifting. But in opposite, the
Speaker 2: Budgetiesta has flourished like a damn butterfly. I mean it
Speaker 2: has like doubled doubled is revenue, and our profit margins
Speaker 2: are stupid, like honestly too high, to the point where
Speaker 2: I was like, I feel like we're not supposed to
Speaker 2: have eighty percent profit margins, you know, and technically you
Speaker 2: really shouldn't, you know, because that just means that's how
Speaker 2: much you're paying in taxes. So it's like, do you
Speaker 2: need to hire more help? Are there other things you
Speaker 2: could purchase with the business? You know?
Speaker 1: You want to keep budget? Needs to private plane, I know, you.
Speaker 2: Know, but that's what people do because if not literally,
Speaker 2: It's like I much rather pay someone like on the
Speaker 2: team that money than to give it away as taxes.
Speaker 2: You know, does Logan need extra support you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? And are there raises? Maybe I can give
Speaker 2: her something. But yeah, the Bunchanisa has been slaying. So
Speaker 2: that's just the nature of business. You know, you learn
Speaker 2: to ride those rays. Those things I don't say, don't
Speaker 2: worry me anymore. Like I would tell all my mentees,
Speaker 2: you know, you work hard, you're smart, you're consistent, You're
Speaker 2: gonna be all right. You just keep at it. So
Speaker 2: but yeah, oh chah my lide, pray for my thread.
Speaker 2: Oh before I forget today, this is gonna come out
Speaker 2: on Wednesday, Thursday morning. I mean, god willing, I do
Speaker 2: not have COVID because they come to test me. Tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I will be on Ryan and Kelly. Is it Kelly
Speaker 2: and Ryan and Kelly. I've never been able to get better,
Speaker 2: I know, I know, yes, in studio, you know, so
Speaker 2: it's gonna be. I have to be there at seven thirty,
Speaker 2: so I'm assuming that eight eight am hours or eight
Speaker 2: or eight thirty, which is like.
Speaker 1: The listen, this is the one morning show that I
Speaker 1: used to religiously watch Kelly and and then Kelly and
Speaker 1: Michael and now Kelly and Ryan. Anyway, it's at nine o'clock, okay,
Speaker 1: on an hour, so you're on the hour. Yes, and
Speaker 1: it's coming from whenever that show is GMA or whatever
Speaker 1: it is after yes.
Speaker 2: So yes, so if you like, tune in wherever you
Speaker 2: are and watch. I mean, I've got god willing because honestly,
Speaker 2: if I'm if I have COVID, which I'm like, please Jesus,
Speaker 2: so the audience stuff, can I know, Kelly, I know, give.
Speaker 1: Me a plus.
Speaker 4: I never asked for anything I ask you for, they
Speaker 4: won't let Honestly, it is my Tracy is coming, like
Speaker 4: my my makeup artists can't even come, and then like
Speaker 4: I know, there's like so that they're like really, I
Speaker 4: mean rightfully, so they're wanting to make sure that everyone
Speaker 4: is like healthy and you can only so.
Speaker 2: And then my my publicist from Penguin is coming. I
Speaker 2: think I'm only allowed to two plus ones. But but yeah,
Speaker 2: so I'm gonna be on God willing if you don't
Speaker 2: see me on you know, because they send someone to
Speaker 2: test you like two days before, so I get tested tomorrow.
Speaker 2: So if I got the VID. I'll be home weeping
Speaker 2: as someone else.
Speaker 1: We've already been testing and it's negative, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but at the home test, I'm just like, I'm
Speaker 2: hoping I'm doing it right. I've done it twice already
Speaker 2: because we have to test before we came on the
Speaker 2: trip together. So I'm hoping that this is just like me.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I hope I can just give them the
Speaker 2: flu not COVID. I hope I can just.
Speaker 4: Give them.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Oh but we do have a guest today,
Speaker 2: thank god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a guest today. So Tiff is going
Speaker 1: to take a little breaky break, so that I can
Speaker 1: interview our illustrious guests for today. I'm really excited. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that you won't get to meet him because he
Speaker 1: is amazing. But Christopher Rivas is a storyteller, professional storyteller.
Speaker 1: He's an actor, theater writer, and he has a new
Speaker 1: book that is coming out officially Tuesday the eleventh, so
Speaker 1: by the time you guys listen, you can purchase your copy.
Speaker 1: It's called Brown Enough, and it is an incredible it's
Speaker 1: like part memoir. I was just reading a chunk of it,
Speaker 1: this chapter about student loans that you guys, won't hear
Speaker 1: me talk to Chris about because talk about being a
Speaker 1: successful Hollywood actor but also having two hundred and forty
Speaker 1: four thousand dollars of student loans, Like he goes there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'm sorry, you won't get to me.
Speaker 2: Correct I know, I am sorry. And then we have
Speaker 2: Baqa this week. But honestly, I'm probably like, oh, may
Speaker 2: if i'd be Aqa. But you guys will have Mandy
Speaker 2: obviously she's she knows all the things. But still keep
Speaker 2: because we we're gonna have guests, So we're not gonna
Speaker 2: have them this week as planned, but we'll have them
Speaker 2: next week. Until if you have your questions, keep dming
Speaker 2: us on Instagram. We have voice note questions because we
Speaker 2: cannot have weight to have you guys in the hot
Speaker 2: seat asking your awesome questions. But no, but for real,
Speaker 2: I just like, I don't know, like I'm doing too much.
Speaker 2: I don't want to start piling back on again. Honestly, Madia,
Speaker 2: I'm nervous about that. Like the pylon. You know that,
Speaker 2: because the real work is there is the reaping, not sewing,
Speaker 2: meaning like as good things roll in, it's hard to
Speaker 2: figure out what to say No to, you know, and
Speaker 2: I feel like my body's like, well, girl, you've been
Speaker 2: doing too much. That's why we're like this, you know,
Speaker 2: I really feel it, Like I'm just like this is
Speaker 2: not just a regular cold. This is also because you
Speaker 2: didn't sit you behind down cold, and so like that's
Speaker 2: I'm nervous about it. I don't want to go back
Speaker 2: to that, like I did all the things life. So
Speaker 2: I'm really really really trying to be intentional about like,
Speaker 2: let me look at my calendar again, what else can
Speaker 2: come off? Does this have to be on here? You know?
Speaker 2: Does this have to be you know? Yeah, because like
Speaker 2: literally I'm about to get back into bed, have my
Speaker 2: tea and sleep until tomorrow morning. And hopefully when these
Speaker 2: people come to take my big test it says negative
Speaker 2: you will be regis, Yeah, I will. I will thank you.
Speaker 2: Not ready not reach No, look at me. I'm like, sorry, Ryan, sorry,
Speaker 2: it has been a minute. We can talk about age,
Speaker 2: we read just eat well.
Speaker 1: I think it's just like an important message too that
Speaker 1: no matter you know, the things like we know about
Speaker 1: taking time and resting, but I mean everything is in
Speaker 1: a cycle, right, and I think it's just about recognizing
Speaker 1: like it is, right, now it's just gotten to be
Speaker 1: too much. So like doing a reset, and thankfully, I mean,
Speaker 1: you have systems in place to give yourself that reset. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you just got to be the one to
Speaker 1: be like pull the plug, wors the escape patch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: get me out of here.
Speaker 2: All right, y'all until next week. You're in good hands, Mandy,
Speaker 2: you know, like you're in good hands with all good neighbor.
Speaker 1: Wait is that the neighbor one? Shit?
Speaker 2: Wait, like a good neighbors? No, that's State.
Speaker 3: Far Oh.
Speaker 1: I thought it was the guy with the deep voice
Speaker 1: from CSI or whatever it was.
Speaker 2: Now I think I want to say, that's all State.
Speaker 2: Maybe look at us, girl.
Speaker 1: All right, I got y'all. Okay, I got y'all. Tiff
Speaker 1: get some rest. Sending you love. I can't wait. I'm
Speaker 1: going to be watching. I'm going to figure out how
Speaker 1: to get on, how to get someone's cable and watch. Hey,
Speaker 1: hey va, fam, it's mandra here riding solo. As you
Speaker 1: guys heard Tiffany, we wish her well. She is under
Speaker 1: the weather and without a voice, which you know, as
Speaker 1: podcaster is a little bit important. But I cannot tell you,
Speaker 1: guys how excited I am to introduce you to if
Speaker 1: you're not familiar with this incredible talent already, Christopher Rives.
Speaker 1: He is joining us today. Although he usually is in
Speaker 1: LA doing big Hollywood things, He's in the New York
Speaker 1: Snitcher studio right now. I had the pleasure of getting
Speaker 1: to know Chris. God was it earlier this year and
Speaker 1: in the springtime when his team reached out to me
Speaker 1: to be a guest on his new podcast called Brown Enough,
Speaker 1: which we're going to talk all about. But the real
Speaker 1: reason Chris is here is to talk about his brand
Speaker 1: new book. It's called Brown Enough. True stories about love, violence,
Speaker 1: the student loan crisis, Hollywood, race, familia, and making it
Speaker 1: in America. So you know, we're not covering just anyone's
Speaker 1: subject here. He is becoming one of the most sought
Speaker 1: after multi hyphenates. He's an actor, author, podcaster, storyteller. Like
Speaker 1: I said, his new book Brown Enough. By the time,
Speaker 1: y'all listen to this episode, BA fan, get on over
Speaker 1: to Amazon dot com or Barnes and Noble or your
Speaker 1: independent bookstore of choice and purchase his book. We are
Speaker 1: putting a link in the bio or sorry, in the
Speaker 1: show notes, you can grab that. It's part memoir, part
Speaker 1: social commentary. Honestly, it's like a rollercoaster while Chris talks
Speaker 1: about finding his true self while simultaneously having a racial
Speaker 1: awakening amidst the struggle to be the perfect LATINX, woke
Speaker 1: and brown person as possible to make it in today's America.
Speaker 1: So we're so so excited to have you here, Chris.
Speaker 1: Welcome bian Venia.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 3: I'm happy to chat with you again.
Speaker 1: Oh I almost forgot to mention you're like really famous
Speaker 1: and stuff. You were on this Fox TV series called
Speaker 1: Call Me Kat, opposite everyone's favorite actress Blossom. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: my biolic? Did I say that right? Leslie Borden, Kylo Pratt,
Speaker 1: Shian Jackson. So we know you are a big Hollywood
Speaker 1: time actor, Chris, But I mean, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: possible to hear you speak about your career and not
Speaker 1: really just get the sense that you're not in it
Speaker 1: for this Hollywood fame. You're really in it to be
Speaker 1: like a storyteller and to get your authentic stories across,
Speaker 1: which I was fortunate enough to get to see when
Speaker 1: you had your launch party for your first podcast Ruby
Speaker 1: Rossa which came out. Congratulations on that too. You're a
Speaker 1: busy guy.
Speaker 3: Thank you. That's all done now so you can binge it.
Speaker 3: You haven't heard it, you can binge it. I shout
Speaker 3: the Dominican man James Bond's based on Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Ba fam knows all about it. I shouted you out
Speaker 1: when it first came out. And now your podcast, Brown Enough,
Speaker 1: which is in conjunction with this book. So tell us
Speaker 1: about this book, why the book and what can people
Speaker 1: expect from it?
Speaker 3: Why the book and what can people expect from it?
Speaker 3: First the podcast Brown Enough, which you will be on.
Speaker 3: So just letting your people know, we have an incredible conversation.
Speaker 3: You know, that long title right with all the things
Speaker 3: and student loan in this and making it in America
Speaker 3: and Familia. When I was chatting with the publishers, they
Speaker 3: would sold them and I think you'll appreciate this, you know,
Speaker 3: finance and stuff, that whole title. What really sold them
Speaker 3: was oh, student loan crisis.
Speaker 1: You're shitting me, really, that's.
Speaker 3: Like that was their Like the people at Simon and
Speaker 3: Schuster were like, that's it. You know, they were like, race,
Speaker 3: I see it all the time. This da da da da,
Speaker 3: you know, but like student loan crisis, and and so
Speaker 3: that that sort of is that title, how that came
Speaker 3: into being? And the reason why now is because exactly
Speaker 3: what you said, storytelling. I believe everything is a story,
Speaker 3: one we've been made to believe or chosen to believe,
Speaker 3: and knowing the difference is profound, and I think as
Speaker 3: bodies of culture, it is imperative that we take back
Speaker 3: our stories and we start unplugging from the stories about
Speaker 3: us what whiteness and society and capitalism has attempted to
Speaker 3: teach us about ourselves and our worth, what we're worthy of.
Speaker 3: And so you are right, the Hollywood shine is not
Speaker 3: as nice to me as the ability to tell new
Speaker 3: stories and provide armor for young brown and black kids
Speaker 3: who also want to tell stories.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I in the portions of the book
Speaker 1: that I have been privileged enough to get to read,
Speaker 1: I wish I had a copy. But it says it's
Speaker 1: going to be here tomorrow. That's fine. I check the
Speaker 1: Amazon tracking, like when's the book going to get here?
Speaker 1: But in the portions that I've read, I just feel
Speaker 1: like any young brown teenager in America who picks up
Speaker 1: this book or if you know a brown teenager, which
Speaker 1: BA fan. You know, we know some brown teens out there.
Speaker 1: I feel like they would find interest or young in
Speaker 1: their careers. It's really for everyone, but I just feel
Speaker 1: like you really see that person. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you were envisioning a certain reader when you were writing this,
Speaker 1: but it feels like a nice, warm, big bear hug
Speaker 1: to any brown kid out there who's not feeling like
Speaker 1: they belong. That was how I felt, and I sort
Speaker 1: of put myself at my young teen years when I
Speaker 1: was just I mean, had no idea where I belonged,
Speaker 1: trapped in between, you know, two different sort of identities
Speaker 1: and socioeconomically and racially and even geographically, feeling torn. And
Speaker 1: I just felt really seen by a lot of the book.
Speaker 3: That's well, thank you. I mean, the goal of my
Speaker 3: work in general is to create spaces of belonging and
Speaker 3: to allow people to feel seen, and so I'm glad
Speaker 3: you felt that way. It's funny when I was writing it,
Speaker 3: I don't actually think the irony. It's like the dedication
Speaker 3: reads this book is dedicated to all the little brown
Speaker 3: kids who need to see themselves grander and more vibrant.
Speaker 3: But don't I see you. I hear you, we hear
Speaker 3: But I think when I was writing it, I don't
Speaker 3: actually know that I was writing it for like high
Speaker 3: schoolers or teens. And yet every day since we've been
Speaker 3: leading up to this book coming out out, I'm like,
Speaker 3: this needs to be high school required reading. Yeah, is
Speaker 3: what I needed when I was young, Like, that is
Speaker 3: the audience I want to have it. And so we
Speaker 3: made this incredible study and discussion guide that schools are getting.
Speaker 3: And so if anyone listening is interested in that, you
Speaker 3: can just email the publisher at row House and they
Speaker 3: will send you this beautiful study guide we made.
Speaker 1: I mean, how different when my high school experience have
Speaker 1: been if there was even one author of color on
Speaker 1: the list and not, let alone a book that really
Speaker 1: embraces that identity. So tell, folks, backing all the way
Speaker 1: back up to a little bit of your origin story,
Speaker 1: talk to our audience about what made when you say brown,
Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? Where are you from
Speaker 1: and how did you sort of what was your journey
Speaker 1: like coming into your own as a brown man in America.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so my father's Dominican, my mom is Colombian. I
Speaker 3: grew up in Queens, New York. Queen's is one of
Speaker 3: the most diverse places in the world. I spent a
Speaker 3: lot of time in Jackson Heights, that is actually known
Speaker 3: as the cultural melting pot of the world. Everyone and
Speaker 3: their mother and everything is there, and so I think,
Speaker 3: without knowing it, that was extremely influential on me. I
Speaker 3: saw a brownness everywhere, and I struggled to think that
Speaker 3: I was. I watched the boys on TV, and I
Speaker 3: knew I wasn't white and so called pretty like them.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I didn't see myself and yet I didn't fit like
Speaker 3: the you know, latinos on TV, and I wasn't Latin
Speaker 3: enough for some of the you know girls. I was
Speaker 3: trying to kick it too, and and I didn't know
Speaker 3: if I had where my home was. My best friend
Speaker 3: was Pakistani South Asian, like I was always trying to
Speaker 3: be seen and be accepted and fit in, which I
Speaker 3: think is a very human component of us, Like we
Speaker 3: want to find our tribe, and so that's been a
Speaker 3: majority of my life is looking for my tribe. Fast
Speaker 3: forward many years and I'm an actor in Hollywood, which
Speaker 3: teaches you a lot about tribe and where you belong
Speaker 3: or where they try to tell you you belong and
Speaker 3: you have white managers who tell you to cut your
Speaker 3: hair or tell you to get a nose job right,
Speaker 3: to look more white, more passing, more Eurocentric. And then
Speaker 3: I go to see tanahase Coote speak and he's a genius,
Speaker 3: brilliant man, and he's speaking about black and white. And
Speaker 3: I raise my hand and I say, well, as a
Speaker 3: Dominican Colombian kid from Queen's, where does that leave me
Speaker 3: in the conversation? And he said, not in it, not
Speaker 3: in an aggressive way, not in a just that's it
Speaker 3: is not in it? And I went home a bit shattered.
Speaker 3: Where am I? I've always felt like I wasn't in it?
Speaker 3: What does it mean to be in it? Where's my father?
Speaker 3: Where's my mother? You?
Speaker 4: Mandy?
Speaker 3: What's it mean to take up space? What does it
Speaker 3: mean to look at brownness in that whole middle space
Speaker 3: which is far more than skin color? Right, like in
Speaker 3: a world that is always this or that heishi yes,
Speaker 3: no fail, pass right wrong? What does it look like
Speaker 3: to live and embrace that middle space, to live outside
Speaker 3: of a box, to live outside of a binary. And
Speaker 3: so I wrote this book. This book has been a
Speaker 3: real reclaiming of my voice, and I hope it gives
Speaker 3: other people that same power.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find that really powerful. I mean, obviously ton
Speaker 1: Of Haseekost is a genius, but I've heard you tell
Speaker 1: that anecdote a couple of times, and I'm just like, Ah,
Speaker 1: there may have been a better way to praise that
Speaker 1: instead of like not in it, because I do feel
Speaker 1: like there's a room for all of it. But I
Speaker 1: completely get it. You know, at that moment in America
Speaker 1: when we're so talking about you know, the pain, the
Speaker 1: violence against black bodies and the Black Lives Matter movement
Speaker 1: and all of that, and it belongs here. What I
Speaker 1: love is that you took that feedback and you were like, well,
Speaker 1: let's create a conversation that includes us, because I think
Speaker 1: that we all deserve to be included. It doesn't take
Speaker 1: away from the pain right of growing up black in
Speaker 1: America or the stories there. It's just it's not about
Speaker 1: it's not a zero sum game. And I think that
Speaker 1: there's this there's this, especially in some of my conservative
Speaker 1: white families ideology, that there's this this idea that there's
Speaker 1: if one group is being focused on and being heard,
Speaker 1: that somehow it's taking away from like your own issues
Speaker 1: or what's important to you. But yeah, I just find
Speaker 1: that so so short sighted. And that's why I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to see a book like this even published, because
Speaker 1: traditional publishing, I mean, has not always been the kindest
Speaker 1: to black and brown authors. So that is just a
Speaker 1: feat in and of itself.
Speaker 3: And while I'm you do you want to tap into
Speaker 3: that thing? Sorry, that thing you said about there's a competition.
Speaker 3: It feels that way right, Like, Oh, they got their movie,
Speaker 3: where's my movie? Crazy rich Asians gets their movie, where's
Speaker 3: my movie?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: They got this show, where's my show?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: Heentified gets you know. Oh, the Mexicans get a show,
Speaker 3: where's my where's my show?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: Dominicans get Gordica chron where's my show? Where's my port?
Speaker 3: You know? Like, and that is something And I always
Speaker 3: say this, right, we don't win until we all win.
Speaker 3: And I will always quote James Baldwin, as soon as
Speaker 3: you put one person in the cage, you put everybody
Speaker 3: in the cage, White people included. Everybody's. Everybody's in this
Speaker 3: nasty stuff, and we're all suffering the same myths and
Speaker 3: lies that come with whiteness and capitalism and all of
Speaker 3: that and systemic racism. Everyone's in it. And I really
Speaker 3: hope this book and my work challenges that, like we
Speaker 3: can all win, we can all celebrate each other. Just
Speaker 3: because they got up doesn't mean it takes away from you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for saying that. So can we talk about well,
Speaker 1: one thing, I love the title of the book, Brown Enough.
Speaker 1: Obviously we're a show called Brown Ambition, and the reason
Speaker 1: we chose that title was really to highlight the ability
Speaker 1: of our people, black and brown people, to excel, to
Speaker 1: be ambitious, to be successful in spite of all the challenges.
Speaker 1: And we're going to kind of shift the conversations. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about the super sexy part of your
Speaker 1: book where you talk about student loans. But the reality
Speaker 1: is that in this America, and you have a whole
Speaker 1: chapter in your book, I encourage you all to readcalled American.
Speaker 1: But in this America, in order to succeed right and
Speaker 1: to excel, it comes at such a high cost if
Speaker 1: we choose the traditional routes, because I mean the traditional
Speaker 1: avenues for success, meaning higher education, are indescribably like shackling
Speaker 1: whole couple of generations now with black and brown people,
Speaker 1: with enormous student loan debt, and so it's like excel
Speaker 1: and succeed on whose terms? Right? So can you talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about your student loan story and why
Speaker 1: that became such a central part of of your memoir
Speaker 1: of your book.
Speaker 3: I think bodies of cultures access or lack of access
Speaker 3: to financial education from very early on, debt, loans, credit,
Speaker 3: compounded interest. You know, like, my parents didn't know this
Speaker 3: stuff to teach me because they were figuring it out,
Speaker 3: because they were they were caught up in this American dream, right,
Speaker 3: which says, go out and get this by any cost.
Speaker 3: Get the credit card, do this, get the house, get
Speaker 3: the mortgage, and what you show other people is what
Speaker 3: you are. They sort of struggle to be middle class.
Speaker 3: And that American dream also sells you get the best
Speaker 3: education possible, but that doesn't do much to actually help
Speaker 3: you get that education. And then when you leave with
Speaker 3: all this debt, it's as if you were the idiot.
Speaker 3: You made the mistake. But you told me, you told me,
Speaker 3: you said, oh, go to the literally, you know, went
Speaker 3: to one of the best acting programs in the world. Go,
Speaker 3: don't worry, go, that's that's what you know. One of
Speaker 3: the first people in your family to go to college,
Speaker 3: go do it. And so I go. And I have
Speaker 3: all this debt, you know, six figures of debt.
Speaker 1: Can we share the number?
Speaker 3: It's in your book, you can, It's in my book.
Speaker 3: It's the first line of my book. I have two hundred.
Speaker 3: I have two hundred and forty four thousand dollars in
Speaker 3: student loan debt. And no one knows this except everyone
Speaker 3: knows this now. Not even my parents know. They too
Speaker 3: now know, Oh my god. And somehow and all of
Speaker 3: that is compounded interest, right, like I owe more interest
Speaker 3: than the initial loans, and somehow, you know. I think
Speaker 3: student loans specifically really is a way of trying to
Speaker 3: cripple people from making it. In the book, I talk
Speaker 3: about also rans in a horse race. One horse wins,
Speaker 3: but you need the also rants. You need the competition,
Speaker 3: you need the idea that they might win. That's what
Speaker 3: keeps people betting. And I think this society systemically wants
Speaker 3: also rans. We want more also rans than winners. So
Speaker 3: we sell them a dream, we sell them capitalism, we
Speaker 3: sell them all this stuff they should go after. And
Speaker 3: only until we start to do the unplugging do we
Speaker 3: see why we're chasing the carrot dangling from our head
Speaker 3: that we didn't even put there. So student loans is
Speaker 3: a very big deal to me because I feel so
Speaker 3: blessed and lucky that every day, somehow I got to
Speaker 3: make it work till the point where I could finally
Speaker 3: start paying them back. I got to scheme in Machavelli
Speaker 3: my way to the point where it didn't cripple me
Speaker 3: and break me, and it almost did. I lived in
Speaker 3: my car for a year, you know, like I did
Speaker 3: all this stuff. I did anything I could to still
Speaker 3: be able to be an artist, sort of praying that
Speaker 3: one day I would get to this point. And there
Speaker 3: is a bit of luck right. My favorite tweet is
Speaker 3: the gofund me, you know, cool website to support friends,
Speaker 3: and then twenty twenty, it's like that was when it launched,
Speaker 3: and then twenty twenty the backbone of the American healthcare system.
Speaker 1: And it's not just you either. It's not just our
Speaker 1: kids who were taking on these six figure student loan debts.
Speaker 1: I mean you you open up about your family is
Speaker 1: co signed those loans signers. It's not just your mom
Speaker 1: and David, you or your uncle.
Speaker 3: You got your uncle, oh, good to you.
Speaker 1: But I mean, in all seriousness, it's like it's not
Speaker 1: just about the kids. It's often like even the adults,
Speaker 1: you know, our parents, who because these loans are so enormous,
Speaker 1: you have to have a co signer. And so this
Speaker 1: whole like idea that oh, it's just ignorant eighteen year
Speaker 1: olds who were doing this and they should have known
Speaker 1: better and if only someone would have told them, we
Speaker 1: all need more education, you know, like at the like adults,
Speaker 1: all of that. But how has that now that obviously
Speaker 1: you're able to start paying that those loans back, was
Speaker 1: there damage to your relationships because of the co signing
Speaker 1: or like, what's your what's the conversations around that now
Speaker 1: with your with your family who was nice enough to
Speaker 1: co sign those loans for you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to go back to like my my
Speaker 3: mom was born in Columbia, right, she didn't get to
Speaker 3: go to college. Like I really want to put that
Speaker 3: on our understand our generation and where our families come from.
Speaker 3: My dad didn't go to college. And so when their
Speaker 3: son gets into all these colleges and he sits on
Speaker 3: the couch crying because he knows his parents can't afford it.
Speaker 3: But they love their son and they love like, oh,
Speaker 3: we worked this hard to allow our son to even
Speaker 3: have this opportunity. We worked two jobs. Those two jobs
Speaker 3: got us a house. This, this, this, to give him
Speaker 3: this opportunity, we have to do whatever it is. And
Speaker 3: then as a family, we sit down and read sixty
Speaker 3: pages of gibberish with no education, as if we're supposed
Speaker 3: to understand what we're signing into. But what we're signing
Speaker 3: into is that dream. You know, my parents trying to
Speaker 3: give me everything they never had. And that's so many families, right,
Speaker 3: It's not the ignorant eighteen year old, it's it's the families,
Speaker 3: it's society. It's so much is in this one idea
Speaker 3: of a student loan, of an education that costs absorbant
Speaker 3: amounts of money. How has that affected our relationships? It?
Speaker 3: Thank god, it hasn't, you know. I feel lucky. I
Speaker 3: don't think this is everyone's situation except maybe my uncle.
Speaker 3: My uncle hated the phone calls and was always calling
Speaker 3: me and always, always, always always calling me, and he
Speaker 3: was worried and he was scared. You know, they call
Speaker 3: a lot. I got the calls, my dad got the calls.
Speaker 3: That's why I went to get a PhD. Right, Like,
Speaker 3: everything I did was like I'm gonna just keep like,
Speaker 3: let me and roll back in school, right, figure out
Speaker 3: a way to do this, figure out a way to
Speaker 3: do it, figure out a way to pause, to pause.
Speaker 3: Pause the loans pause them. But at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, I really did have whether they admitted or not,
Speaker 3: I don't know. That's how I take it. I had
Speaker 3: people in my life who believed in me, you know,
Speaker 3: and I'm glad they did. And I'm really again, it's
Speaker 3: just there's an overall gratitude because I know so many
Speaker 3: people who didn't get to be artists, who didn't get
Speaker 3: to be what they wanted to be because they had
Speaker 3: to work three or four jobs to start paying back
Speaker 3: their loans, which are sometimes more money than their rent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or even artists who are afraid or hear the
Speaker 1: you know, hear a story like yours and then don't
Speaker 1: see another way like don't see you like, are too
Speaker 1: afraid because they're worried about settling themselves with debt. I
Speaker 1: think about myself as a writer growing up and thinking, well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to study journalism because you know, I had
Speaker 1: these dreams of being a writer and like writing novels
Speaker 1: and maybe writing plays. But for me, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I need to make money because ain't nobody come in
Speaker 1: to save me or you know, help me with this life.
Speaker 1: So it's almost that pressure like do we do something sensible,
Speaker 1: you know? Or do we follow our dreams? And you know,
Speaker 1: it's and I also feel like it's that in between,
Speaker 1: like there's not it's not black or white in that way.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be all or nothing. But like
Speaker 1: hopefully stories were like yours, I hope won't make people
Speaker 1: afraid to pursue their ambitions if it's like to be
Speaker 1: an artist and whatnot, but maybe just to like look
Speaker 1: for other you know, other avenues, other programs, other other
Speaker 1: ways to do it without having to immediately just like
Speaker 1: sign up for all those loans? Would you agree? Or
Speaker 1: how do you feel about it? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean that's how I end the chapter, right Like
Speaker 3: if a young person asked me if I should go
Speaker 3: to college today, I would quote, you know, I quote
Speaker 3: the poet Maggie Smith and her poem good Bones. Any
Speaker 3: realtor taking you through a real shithole will chirp on
Speaker 3: about the good bones. This place has good bones. She
Speaker 3: says this place could be something one day. And I
Speaker 3: reference that poem because I think it's important to know
Speaker 3: when you're walking into a shithole and to know about
Speaker 3: the good bones. And I just want all children. And
Speaker 3: this is why I think the education of finance and
Speaker 3: opportunity and options is so important. Very young to say,
Speaker 3: you know, there's community college and they're actually quite good.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm not anti education, I'm anti the cost of education.
Speaker 3: And I want to be really clear about that. Going
Speaker 3: to college was one of the greatest times of my life.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it really made me who I
Speaker 3: am today, especially that school. I value the education in
Speaker 3: the community like and I want everyone to have that opportunity.
Speaker 3: But I also want them to challenge and be aware
Speaker 3: that asking a young person to take out loans that
Speaker 3: size is criminal and I really want them to be
Speaker 3: aware of that. And I didn't understand it. I did
Speaker 3: not have that education, I did not have that language.
Speaker 3: And so I'm not anti education, I'm anti the exportment
Speaker 3: cost of education.
Speaker 1: This is why we need this book to like require
Speaker 1: reading for high school students. This is like the prime
Speaker 1: opportunity get them before they make the same you know decisions.
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, So sort of just to tie
Speaker 1: the conversation up, talk a little bit about I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I know pe we are probably curious and
Speaker 1: we've had questions from listeners who are in the arts.
Speaker 1: So what's your advice to young or maybe not even young,
Speaker 1: because I don't want to be ageous, but anyone out
Speaker 1: there who's dreaming of pursuing a career, and let's talk
Speaker 1: about theater maybe or film, whatever you consider to be
Speaker 1: your primary focus, right, because you do a little bit
Speaker 1: of everything, what advice do you have to people who
Speaker 1: are wanting to get a career in the arts and
Speaker 1: make it successful.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, I think being an artist is one of
Speaker 3: the most important positions in society and in the world.
Speaker 3: This is why when a dictator comes in, the first
Speaker 3: thing they get rid of the lawyers and the like.
Speaker 3: Artist artists have an ability to speak on what is,
Speaker 3: to call out the good bones and the shit all
Speaker 3: at once. And so anyone who's young or old, or
Speaker 3: middle or something who's thinking about being an artist, one
Speaker 3: I'd say you already are you know, and you're an
Speaker 3: artist regardless of this sort of success or so called
Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah. You achieve you are an artist
Speaker 3: and you need to be an artist. Now, whether the
Speaker 3: conversation is do I have to go to school in
Speaker 3: order to be this painter and store to study fine artists,
Speaker 3: or to study theater or to study writing, I would
Speaker 3: just invite you to consider what are the other programs
Speaker 3: out there? Is it better? Is this a field where
Speaker 3: you can just go in and start doing the work.
Speaker 3: I will say this, like, I you know, I worked
Speaker 3: a lot in New York when I was a kid,
Speaker 3: and then I stopped acting and I moved to Miami
Speaker 3: and I was like a personal trainer on South Beach,
Speaker 3: and I knew I wanted to act again. It like
Speaker 3: really it really hit me. But I knew I wanted
Speaker 3: to go to school. I knew I really really really
Speaker 3: wanted to study it because I like I loved it
Speaker 3: and I lacked an intimate knowledge of its history and
Speaker 3: where it came from. I thought about, like, let me
Speaker 3: just move to La, let me I got, let me
Speaker 3: save this money and let me move to LA and
Speaker 3: just try and figure it out. But I wanted to
Speaker 3: study it, and I'm just so be the artist. We
Speaker 3: need you, We need you be the artist you are.
Speaker 3: We need you. And if you want to go to school,
Speaker 3: really just test the waters, test your options, consider it.
Speaker 3: And if you think you're like this is it. I
Speaker 3: want to do this. I want to do this for
Speaker 3: forty to sixty thousand dollars a year. Great, take that journey,
Speaker 3: you know, but you're going in consciously and that's what's
Speaker 3: really important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even getting a mentor, like someone who's been
Speaker 1: there a little bit like bind you a Chris Reebus
Speaker 1: out there. I mean like that could be crucial, like
Speaker 1: having someone who can sort of share their experience before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you make that huge investment. Okay, Chris? Do you think
Speaker 1: you're Brown enough? Is that the open end? Is there
Speaker 1: a question at the end of this for the book?
Speaker 3: Is there a I am enough? So at some point
Speaker 3: I think we move beyond brown? Right? Like brown? Is
Speaker 3: this invitation to think about the middle space in all
Speaker 3: of your life, what it means to use your voice,
Speaker 3: what it means to take up space, what it means
Speaker 3: to cast a spell of self worth and really, which
Speaker 3: then evolves to I am enough just as I am,
Speaker 3: I am enough, just as I am with what's in
Speaker 3: my bank account, with what I'm wearing with my skin, color,
Speaker 3: with my hair, with my questions about whether I want
Speaker 3: to be an artist or not. Like, right here, right now,
Speaker 3: I am enough, and I can begin from this place
Speaker 3: of fullness rather than a place of lack and less.
Speaker 3: And I need to go after this in order to
Speaker 3: be enough. And so I hope the book ends for
Speaker 3: others the way I actually think it. You know, in
Speaker 3: days and granted it's a spectrum, right Like, there are
Speaker 3: days where I'm like, yeah, I'm here, i am enough,
Speaker 3: I am Brown enough, I'm enough, I'm Revis enough, I'm
Speaker 3: Chris enough. You know, I'm like, I'm enough. And then
Speaker 3: there are days where we're still in the matrix. So
Speaker 3: the matrix hits you hard and you don't feel so
Speaker 3: much enough. But it's ideally about transcending past, you know,
Speaker 3: brownness fitting in Latin on this Latini that x E
Speaker 3: like blackness and just saying I'm enough because this whole
Speaker 3: world is trying to tell you you're not, but you are.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. We thank you for creating a work of
Speaker 1: art and a real gift. I feel like to anyone
Speaker 1: out there who's been struggle, whether you're struggling with your
Speaker 1: identity now or you have in the past. I think
Speaker 1: it's just a welcome reminder that you can be enough
Speaker 1: and that you're not the only one going through it.
Speaker 1: So again, ba fam, y'all have to pick up Chris's book.
Speaker 1: It's called Brown Enough, sold wherever you can find books.
Speaker 1: What else can we plug? Check out your new book,
Speaker 1: I'll tell brown Enough.
Speaker 3: I'll tap into what you said about publishing. Yeah, since
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty and y'all can look this up in the
Speaker 3: New York Times did a beautiful article on it. Only
Speaker 3: five percent of books published since nineteen fifty have been
Speaker 3: by non white authors five percent. And so if you're
Speaker 3: one of those people listening, which I imagine you are,
Speaker 3: who's like, I like diversity, equity, inclusion. I want everyone
Speaker 3: to have a chance five percent. That means we have
Speaker 3: to be conscious about what we're reading, absorbing, picking up,
Speaker 3: listening to whose art? Are we listening to? Whose podcast?
Speaker 3: Who's this? And one of the ways we do that
Speaker 3: is we support especially in publishing. You got to buy
Speaker 3: the book, you know, and if it's not mine, awesome,
Speaker 3: but go buy somebody's. Go get you a bell Hooks,
Speaker 3: Go get you a Julius had to say, go get
Speaker 3: you something you.
Speaker 1: Know likedne eliche.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go, go get you one. Please do
Speaker 3: that is by a body of culture, please.
Speaker 1: Because there Hell yeah, if your book does well, it
Speaker 1: makes it easier for the next Chris, for the next
Speaker 1: meet because I'm working on a book too.
Speaker 3: It makes it easier for first well, it raised it
Speaker 3: one percent, you know, and then one percent and then
Speaker 3: one percent.
Speaker 1: There is a room for all of us, right It
Speaker 1: feels that way to me. There's a room for all
Speaker 1: of us. Christopher Riva, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: Brown Ambition and sharing some of your light with us.
Speaker 1: I so appreciate it, friend.
Speaker 3: I appreciate you. Thank you very much. I love your
Speaker 3: hair right now.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you?
Speaker 2: Oh damn.
Speaker 1: I didn't even get to talk about the anecdote with
Speaker 1: the clothes pin on the nose. Oh ye, would you
Speaker 1: like a quick outtake? Is that for real?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Aunties were telling people to put clothes pins on their nose.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, all the time. Make it straighter the play
Speaker 3: when we do the play, and I do that because
Speaker 3: we hide it in the audience and everyone gets one.
Speaker 3: I get so many. I mean it for some people
Speaker 3: it's funny for some people, it's heart breaking, right, I
Speaker 3: guess so many people who say, man, my grandma told
Speaker 3: me to do the same thing, my mom told me
Speaker 3: to do that, my dad told me to do that.
Speaker 1: Wow, all the time, I mean, I thought the whole
Speaker 1: chemical in your hair to make it straight. That was
Speaker 1: the That was very painful. Okay, I still have the scars,
Speaker 1: but the clothes pin, like, oh my god, it would
Speaker 1: have taken much more than a clothes pin for this
Speaker 1: schnauztuk anywhere. I can't imagine, Oh my god. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: for that anecdote and others. Y'all got to check out
Speaker 1: the book. But thank you Chris again for joining.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate all of you.
Speaker 1: Hey ba fam, we could not do this show without
Speaker 1: your support or the support of our team behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: The Brown Ambission podcast is produced by Cumulus Podcast Network.
Speaker 1: It's edited by the wonderful Imani Crosby and produced by
Speaker 1: Tanya Bustos. Dennis Stimplinsky is our in house tech guru,
Speaker 1: and I am Bandy Woodrid Santos your co host, and
Speaker 1: I will see y'all next week.