WEBVTT - ESPN Head on Customizing Content for Younger Viewers 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.159 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.479 Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.439 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.360 Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.120 search Bloomberg Global News. A bunch of headlines out there 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.480 in terms of COVID. We did see several countries moving 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:39.519 toward easing travel restrictions, so that's happening. We see, you know, 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:43.120 mask mandates kind of coming off and we're moving forward. 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.680 Although I highly recommend you check at the Bloomberg Big 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.680 Take from over the weekend, it's a reminder we're not 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:50.840 out of the woods yet. We're not. Michelle Cortez, who's 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.680 covered it for us here at Bloomberg News, is just saying, sorry, guys, 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:55.800 there are more variants to come, and it's going to 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.280 be more disruptions to things like supply chains and so on. 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:01.080 I read it on the plane back last night and like, oh, Michelle, 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:07.080 come on alright, So let's bring in Dr John Abanson. 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.800 He's lecturer of health care policy at Harvard Medical School. 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.240 He's got a new book out, Sickening, a Big Farma 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.880 broke American health care and how we can repair it. 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:17.880 He joins us on the phone from Boston. Dr Abanson, 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:20.200 nice to have you here with Tim and myself. Let's 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.320 get right to it. Your book really strikes at big Pharma. 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.520 What's your mission here? My mission is too to explain 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:34.240 to the American people that American healthcare is performing very poorly. 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:39.440 We've ranked sixty eight in the world and healthy life expectancy, 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:43.360 and to achieve that lowly state of health, we're spending 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.880 a trillion and a half dollars more than the other 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:50.720 wealthy countries as a percentage at GDP. So it's a disaster. 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:53.880 We've known this for a while, so right like this 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:55.880 has been out there, this stat I feel like whenever 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.000 we talk about American healthcare systems for the last decade, 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:00.840 at least, you know, we talked about how much we 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.720 spend and how much is bad? UM? So so what 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.200 do we do right? So what I have to contribute 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.639 is that UM as a family talk you know, was 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.040 Robert W. Johnson Fellow and trained in research design and 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.640 epode theology and statistics. As my career went on, I 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:22.040 started to see the commercial influence coming and the missing piece. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.520 We talk about these things all the time, Carol, and 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.520 people are aware of it. Um. It's hard to apprehend 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.200 how bad it is. But the missing piece in all 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.840 this is something that I can contribute, which is that 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:38.040 the commercial interests, doing their job to maximize the financial 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:42.120 returns that they delivered to their investors, have taken over 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:47.080 the knowledge that even the best doctors trust about how 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:51.000 best to care for patients. And this extends from their 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:55.160 determining the research agenda of our new knowledge is about 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:59.320 drugs and devices, to controlling the conduct of the studies, 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.760 the analysis of the studies. When the studies are completed 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.080 and the manuscripts are sent into the journals, that the 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.280 peer reviewers and the medical journal editors don't even get 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.480 to see the real data. They just get to see 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.360 the data that's included in the manuscript. And when the 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:18.920 experts who write clinical practice guidelines set the standards for 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.760 all doctors about what how to practice quality medicine. They 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.440 don't get to see the data either. So what we've 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:29.679 had is this quiet revolution in the control of our 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.120 medical knowledge over the last twenty or thirty years. And 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:37.560 the docs are trying to practice evidence based medicine, but 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:41.160 they don't understand that that evidence the fundamental purpose of 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.760 that evidence now is to maximize returns to investors. Can 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.640 you draw a line from what you're talking about here 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.800 to the nearly one million Americans who have died as 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:56.520 a result of covid um that is our health care system, 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.360 our health care system, the health of the health of 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.880 American people, and to the is it billions now that 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:05.480 have gotten the vaccine or millions that have gotten the vaccine? Yes? 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:11.280 Billions um yes uh? Part of the line uh. The 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:16.800 COVID vaccines and are both the height of what farmer 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.120 can do for us. And it shows also that their 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.480 business model of maximizing their profits is not going to 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.440 work in the end, because what we've done is we 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.720 have these fabulous vaccines while we pay a lot, the 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.680 drug companies are making a lot. But fine, But what 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:38.560 happened is that there was no UH control on where 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.359 those vaccines were sold, so they're being sold where the 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.520 drug companies can make the most money, and the third 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.240 world is getting left out of this. So Africa has 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:53.040 a vaccination rate of approximately I think now. And what's 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:57.080 happening is that Delta variant came from India when four 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:01.560 of people were vaccinated. The O wrong variant came from 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.440 South Africa when ten percent of South Africans were vaccinated. 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:09.640 And the business model of the pharmaceutical companies, the vaccine 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.880 manufacturers is to keep selling their drugs for top dollar. 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:20.000 But it's a global pandemic and until everybody's safe, nobody's stakes. 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:23.760 And these variants like Delta and omicron are going to 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:28.120 keep coming back to affect Americans and we're going to 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.400 keep having waves of this as your as Mitchelle, your 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:39.160 reporter road. So who do we target? You know, I've 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:40.960 had a brother who is in pharmaceuticals for a long 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.039 time and we've had some great debates go round and round. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.120 But I do wonder how do we make it better. 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.279 You mentioned we spend so much, and I'm very grateful 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.880 having traveled and been exposed to sometimes healthcare systems outside 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.279 the United States. I do know that we are privileged, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.960 but not everybody is equally privileged, and yet the costs 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.239 are extreme and it's sometimes cumbersome and difficult to manage. 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.880 Just got about a minute left here, So what do 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:06.640 we do? What's your top two things that you change 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:08.720 that we make it better? Yeah, Carol, there are a 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.159 couple of things that would would really improve it. One is, 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.599 we in the United States do not have Health Technology Assessment. 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.400 So the FDA tells us what tells us doctors what 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.240 drugs we can prescribe, but it doesn't tell us what 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.240 drugs we should prescribe in terms of being most effective 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.720 and most efficient. So we need an external body that 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.440 can tell doctors what the data really show about whether 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:35.520 new therapies are better than older therapies, um, and what 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.480 the most cost effective medicine is. The other thing that 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:43.640 we absolutely need is transparency of clinical trial data. It's 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:48.159 craziness to be trusting journal articles because they're peer reviewed. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.279 When the peer reviewers don't have access to the data, 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.120 it makes no sense. It takes us. Now forgive me, 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:56.839 we're running out of time. Sounds like some things that 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:58.360 we need to put front and center. I do hope 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.000 you'll come back, because I think this is a converse 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:01.680 station that we've got to spend a bit more time 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.400 with us, and and not really even gracious with your 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:08.440 time today. Dr John grab Abramson over at Harvard Medical School. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.640 Check out his book Sickening, How Big Farmer Brook American 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.120 Healthcare and How we can repair It. You're listening to 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:17.360 Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.880 Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:23.920 But in the current issue of Bloomberg Business Week, a 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.400 story about unicorns, you know, the startup companies worth about 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.320 a billion or more. And as it turns out, Tim 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.120 more being minted every day. In fact, some are being 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.240 their couple being minted every single day in two It's 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:39.120 almost like, Joel Weber, we need a new name for unicorn. 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.080 Joel Webber is at her at Bloomberg Business Week. He's 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.480 with us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. The story 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.400 we're referring to is by Ellen Hewitt, startups reporter for 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.000 Bloomberg News. She joins us on the phone from San Francisco. 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.080 Check out her story. It's featured in the current issue 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.640 of Bloomberg Business Week. It's available on the Bloomberg and 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.880 at bloomberg dot com slash business Week. So what do 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.280 you think, Joel um a new name for Unicorn because 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.040 they're not all that rare. I don't know what name 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:10.119 that would be. Uh So maybe Ellen hasn't. But Ellen 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.320 sent up a flare uh a couple of weeks ago 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.680 and basically said, we're about to hit an interesting threshold, 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.480 which is one thousand startups that will be worth a 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.080 billion or more UM, which I think is a really 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:27.760 interesting moment to kind of look back at this, Like, 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.160 I mean, in the tech world, this has been a 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:34.360 trend that has really helped define where where companies go 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:38.520 and increasingly where public markets go. Um. And it didn't 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.560 take that long for us to get there. Um. So, Ellen, 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:49.280 what was the thousand Unicorn? So there's arguably too because 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.079 there were actually two that became you know, We're born 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.360 quote unquote on February second, which was happened to be 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.840 the day that we hit the thousand number. We chose 0:08:57.880 --> 0:08:59.680 to profile one of them. It was a company called 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.240 produc Upboard, and I could not have come up with 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.960 a more inside baseball Silicon Valley company had I tried. 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.760 They make software for product managers UM to help them 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:16.120 more effectively manage UM product development, which just means like 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.120 building a new app or a new feature or something 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.640 like that. And it's it's just like, you know, pms 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.920 are a big deal at tech companies and this is 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.040 just a product made for them. They're based in San Francisco. 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.439 I mean it was like it was pretty funny, UM. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.040 But yeah, I mean, they just it was a huge 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.959 deal for them, UM, But most people don't fat And 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.560 I like, as reporters, if we get pitched a company 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.640 saying like hey we raised money and now our unicorn, 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.160 like that doesn't move the needle for us at all. 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:49.440 So if it wasn't called a unicorn, what would call well, 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:51.920 what's funny is? I talked to um alien Lee, who 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.240 is the VC who originally came up with the term, 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.720 and she said, when she was first writing the blog 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.559 post about unicorns, she was like, I was trying to 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.280 think of a a term, and I thought of like 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.640 home run or monster hit or these things that were 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.200 like pretty cheesy. And I told her, I was like, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.680 I as a writer, I'm so glad that you picked 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.040 unicorn because there are a lot of fun metaphors you 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.240 can make with it. UM that helps us up, you know, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:19.560 any sort of article about improvided very memorable art for 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.040 magazine stories. Yeah, the arts spread is amazing. I really 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.199 encourage everyone to look at the at the print version. 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:30.839 It's it's quite beautiful. Including Actually, I have actually wondered 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:32.800 when the unicorn really looks like, because I've never seen 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:37.960 one in the wildly. I have this Bloomberg Business Week 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.200 article in the art associated with it to show me. 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:42.920 Hey Ellen, I'm I'm wondering why these companies are staying 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.400 private longer. It's just something you explore in the piece um. Traditionally, 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.800 companies that have been worth so much they would have 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.839 you know, I p o well. And if you look 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.800 at the uniform list, so at the time that the 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.360 term was first coined, which was the most valuable private 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.319 company that was on that list was Twitter? It was 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:02.880 worth ten billion dollars. Now, if you look at the list, 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.280 the most valuable unicorns on the list are Bike Dance 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.960 at a hundred forty billion dollars um, SpaceX that around 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.760 a hundred billion, and Stripe that I think and I mean, 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:15.960 is you know, an order of magnitude above what we 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.840 used to have less than a decade ago. And you 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:20.360 know a lot of the big names that used to 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.600 be on the Unicorn list are public, like Uber Lift, 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.000 you know, Airbnb, We work all these companies. That being said, 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.520 obviously there's a lot more flexibility for companies to stay 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.680 private longer. And I think, you know, Stripe is a 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.800 good example. They've just their ability to raise money is 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.120 limitless in the private markets. Why would they go public? 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.120 It's the same story that we've heard people worrying about 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.880 for the last ten years. And and the reason you 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.960 see all these public market investors coming to the private markets, 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.480 these companies are not interested in going public if they 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.400 don't have to. They really don't have to write there's 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.040 so much money out there. So Ellen, what does it 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.960 take for a reporter who follows startups to get excited, 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.480 especially when it's not so unusual for there to be 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:02.480 a billion dollar company? And I think about our audience, 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.679 who is listening when we talk about these companies that 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:06.960 hit that billion dollar status. What are the ones that 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.120 they should be maybe paying more attention to. Is it 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.520 that nineteen billion. What is it? Oh my gosh, Well 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.040 it's funny because yeah, now as a result of how 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.520 many unicorns there are, you are seeing these ridiculous neologisms 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.600 like umu decacorn a classic, right, so ten billion or more. 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:26.000 But somebody was telling me hecticorn is now in vogue 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:27.920 because that's a hundred billion or more. I mean it's 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.680 it's um or like mega. You know, people talking about 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.320 mega funding rounds now of like a hundred million or 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.840 more and funding I mean, the goal post just move farther. 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.120 And so I think as reporters, yeah, we are looking 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.640 for companies that stand out for some other reason. Um 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:49.240 and I think what's tough is like for the company's perspective, 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.520 like hitting a billion dollar valuation is a really good 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.440 sign that you've built something very strong. This is what 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.319 the PC's have told me. It's like, I means you 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.240 you've got a good product, but it's no longer enough 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.200 stand out on that alone own and especially these companies 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.400 are really competing over recruiting, so that that tends to 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.360 be a place where they hope that having this public 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.200 high or this high valuation that has made public through 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.400 news reports, that will help but it tends not to 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.280 help with recruiting. They need to show that they're special 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.760 in some other way. And are we going to anticipate 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.040 in any sort of slow down in these valuations or 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.959 is the money free flowing right now in Silicon Valley. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.040 I mean it feels like it's just been so many 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:27.760 years of people saying like, is there going to be 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:29.560 a slowdown in the private markets and there, and there 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:33.080 really hasn't been. Obviously. You see individual companies that maybe 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.600 were overvalued, like we work with airines or whatever, and 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.360 you see them collapse. But I mean, the trend lines 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:40.920 have only been going up, and even when there's been 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.720 volatility and the public markets, that hasn't usually shown up 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.880 as strongly in the private markets. And look, covid was 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.400 actually really good for all these companies, which was kind 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.480 of surprising too. I mean a lot of them make software, 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.160 and the more digital our lives become, you know, the 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.959 more the more these become valuable. I gotta acorn. That's 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.439 what I would do, all right, Ellen Hughett, great stuff. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.840 Check it out online. It's really gorgeous in terms of 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.280 how it's laid out. She's our startups reporter at Bloomberg 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.320 News and our thanks to Joe Webber, editor of Business Week. 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.720 It's in the current issue of the magazine. This is 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.680 Bloomberg business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:21.280 Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, on Friday, Bloomberg Live 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.400 hosting its Power Players Summit. Tim and I were there. 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.320 It's bringing together folks in the sports world. And at 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.560 the event, it caught up with Jimmy Pittaro, chairman ESPN 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.520 and Sports content of the Disney Company. Also George Pine, 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.280 founder and CEO Brewing Capital, talk about meeting sports fans 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.920 wherever they are and that included the gambling world and 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:45.880 social media. Does what you do on social ultimately drive 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.600 to other platforms. Maybe people get a snippet of something 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.680 and then they all took ultimately want to see more. 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:55.600 That's that's exactly the strategy. So well, so yes, it 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:57.680 does work. I will tell you that this is just 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.600 one little anecdope. I was speaking at a conference UH 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.800 sales conference and we're having this exact discussion, and afterwards, 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.280 an executive came up to me and said, I just 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.119 want you to know I have I have two teenagers 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.640 and they were both introduced to ESPN on Snap and 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.520 now they're watching first take and get up on traditional television. 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.040 So for me, that's the strategy. You know, we of 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:21.720 course want to be there and will continue to be 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.960 there on those platforms, but it's a way to grow awareness. 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.760 So it's a way to grow affinity and and and 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:32.160 get this younger generation just generally excited about ESPN. And 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.520 you know the other thing that's interesting now is gambling. 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.480 Well that's sports, right, I mean, thirty one million people 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.760 are supposed to bet on the game Sunday. Eight billion 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.960 dollars will be waged legally. By the way, up we 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.520 have a company called Odds Schegar that it's kind of 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.960 a kayak for betting in the UK. We're bringing it 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.800 to America and in the first three days of New 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.360 York being live, we did of the budget revenue for 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.800 the year, so obviously we budgeted it too low, but 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.840 the gambling as sticky as well. So when you think 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:06.120 about gambling, social media, digital media, understanding what people want, 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.440 you know, the world's world's changing around us. Howes gambling 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:14.920 turn into somebody who ultimately goes to ESPN? Does it work? 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:19.520 I mean, well, look so here's wrong, guys. We're in it. 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:21.280 We are in the space. We've been in the space 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.440 for for several years. Disney actually said this week he's 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:29.080 bullish on sports, including betting. He is bullish on both. Um, 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.720 I will tell you we've been in the space. We 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.840 have content. We have dedicated segments on Sports Center. Scott 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.120 Van pelt has has his Sports Center where he does 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.960 a segment called Bad Beats. We have dedicated podcast, we 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.280 have a dedicated area on ESPN dot com. We have 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:46.160 a ESPN branded studio in Vegas on the Strip um 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.560 that generates betting specific programming on on a regular basis. 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.760 We've done the research, and of course we were treading 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.800 carefully here over the past few years, still investing, but 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.360 but really looking closely at the data. And what we 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.439 saw is that Number One, our fans are no longer 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:09.120 just okay with it. They're demanding it. They expect ESPN 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.800 to be offering this betting experience within our environment. Number Two, 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.800 and this is really interesting, we didn't see any negative 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.840 impact on the Disney brand. I mean, for those of 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.040 you that don't know, the Walt Disney Company owns ESPN. 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.439 So we've wanted to be careful in that regard to 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.440 and what we're seeing was it was neutral or positive 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.960 even on the Disney brand. So because I think people 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.520 thought family brand, how could you get into betting? Well, 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.760 you see, you see all the leagues now, in all 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.280 the major leagues, In fact, every league you're in, nineteen 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.040 times more likely to watch a sporting event if you 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.000 make a bet. So if I'm a broadcaster sports, how 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.119 can I not do it? Like if they don't do it, 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.760 everybody else will. They'll be at a disadvantage. ESPN really doesn't. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.399 I can say no, no, it's you don't have a choice. 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.800 They have to. They have, like he said, he has 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:54.639 to be where the fans are, and he has to 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.960 give the fans what they want. Yeah, we're in a battle. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.960 We're in a battle for people's time. We're and we're 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.879 not just competing against the traditional sports media companies. We 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.480 all know this. We're competing against Instagram and Snap and 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.960 Fortnite and Netflix, and so we have to be aggressive here. 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.280 Now that being said, my job is to protect the 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.320 brand at all costs. And if I saw any data 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.560 that that that indicated to me that that this was 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.959 a dangerous position to be taking we wouldn't do it. 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.560 Even if there was financial upside, we wouldn't. We wouldn't 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:23.760 do it. I have to protect the brand. But we're not. 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.480 We're just not seeing that um any worries about the 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.840 integrity of sports in general, especially as we know it's 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.360 teams getting in right, the league's getting in I mean, 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.320 everybody is really kind of all in when it comes 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.960 to betting and gambling. Well, you know, around the world, 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.440 they've been doing it for a long time without really 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.800 any issue. I mean, there's always an inititive integrity. But 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:46.879 I would argue you had that whether it was legal 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.600 or illegal. I mean, one of the things we're finding 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.919 is that legal bettings way up makes sense. I'd rather 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:54.960 make a legal bet than an illegal bet, right, So 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:56.720 if I don't have the choice to make a legal bet, 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:58.960 it's probably better. But no, we I don't. I don't 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.160 think there's any evidence that it's been a real issue. 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.679 I mean, in Europe they've been betting for quite a 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.640 long time. Yeah, And look, one of the somewhat connected 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.399 to that. One of the things that we bring to 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.240 the table, I think is is our brand, which represents 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.880 trust a certain level of credibility. So anyway, we see 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.360 opportunity here, but of course we're going to do it responsibly, 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.240 right and just tread carefully and go slowly. One of 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:23.879 the things you see the leaves, which I think is 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:27.080 really smart to that point, is talking about doing advertising 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.159 the NFL about responsible gaming. I think that's one of 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.639 the learnings that wasn't done well around the world, and 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.399 you see some of the countries of increasing regulation, and 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.120 I think the leagues here in the US they're trying 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.760 to get ahead of it by initially bring up do 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.680 this responsibly alright. That, of course was Jimmy Pittaro, he's 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.600 chairman of ESPN and sports content for the Walt Disney Company. 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.840 And George Pine, founder and CEO Brewing Capital, who has 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.200 three generations in his family who have been involved in 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.160 the NFL. So I'm really cool individuals to talk about 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:58.960 what's going on. Not the first time I've heard that 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.119 engagement metric about the likelihood of you actually watching an event. 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.159 It goes up significantly if you end up betting on it. 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.200 And of course the leagues are gonna want to get involved, 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.479 But how do you keep it pure? Carol, integrity right, 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:15.639 integrity of the game signs in locker rooms, videos, trainings. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:17.920 I don't know, I don't know. And I think of 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:23.560 Brian Flores, the former of Miami coach head coach, his lawsuit. Uh. 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.639 And part of the concerns, or at least claims or 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.280 allegations were that the owner you know, was offering money 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.880 for him to lose games, right to improve other position 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:37.920 in the draft. But so you just rose. I don't 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.080 know what to say. Um, but everybody is all in 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.320 when it comes to gaming, and and these guys just 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.840 talking about wanting to be wherever the fans are. Truly 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:48.960 it means multiple, multiple platforms. Check out more, go to 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:55.480 Bloomberg Live dot com. Yeah, but you let me drive? No? No, 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:04.760 all right, please level, I want to drive. It's a 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:15.600 good question. Drive drive to the globe. Dawn on radio? 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.000 All right, just about ten minutes left in today's trading session, 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.800 getting ready to wrap up this Valentine's Day of trading. 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:22.879