Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
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Speaker 1: Business Week. Cal Master Jason Kelly. We've got another city,
Speaker 1: as we know, I'm really state Jason, that's in lockdown. Well,
Speaker 1: and this is a really important story because a lot
Speaker 1: of what's happening on the West Coast is more and
Speaker 1: more quickly making its way to the East coast. Let's
Speaker 1: go to Los Angeles now, Chris, Paul Mary my fellow
Speaker 1: bureau chief out there in Los Angeles. Uh, Chris, great
Speaker 1: to have you with us. I know it is incredibly
Speaker 1: busy for you because the state of California, the Governor
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom declaring essentially what we heard Governor Cuomo here
Speaker 1: in New York declared today a effectively sheltering in place.
Speaker 1: Help us understand what's going on on the ground in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Well, yes, it was kind of a bizarre
Speaker 1: evening last night because first we had l A Mayor
Speaker 1: Eric Arseti having a press conference where he announced much
Speaker 1: tougher urn stage cleat sheltering in place order. Uh, and
Speaker 1: then an hour later produced some motoring it from the
Speaker 1: entire states. So it became a situation where you wondered
Speaker 1: that did these people even talk? Uh? You know, it's
Speaker 1: um was the first day went into effect in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: I took a walker around. I went to my supermarket
Speaker 1: this morning. It was a sobering site with a line
Speaker 1: people down the block, separated five a few feet. They
Speaker 1: were letting them in, uh, five at a time. Uh.
Speaker 1: Security guard there told me that was due to robberies.
Speaker 1: They've had frequent robberies. It was also security inside the supermarket. Uh.
Speaker 1: And they were at a toilet paper uh and they
Speaker 1: were announcing that things that they were out of the line. Um. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know. The rest of the city is ysily quiet.
Speaker 1: It's it almost feels like a science fiction movie. There's
Speaker 1: no cars on the street. This is um, you know,
Speaker 1: a city where it can take me forty five minutes
Speaker 1: to an hour to drive six miles to work. Uh.
Speaker 1: And uh there's you know, a smattering, particularly the afternoon,
Speaker 1: of people dog walking and jogging, and sometimes you see
Speaker 1: people wearing masks. Uh. But for the most part, yerily quiet.
Speaker 1: I went around his mother's tours. You are classic strip
Speaker 1: stopping centers that are all around the city, and uh,
Speaker 1: surprisingly quite a few of them are still open. I
Speaker 1: mean there were you know, sandwich shops, dry cleaners. Uh,
Speaker 1: those are all allowed in the order. Uh. Both to
Speaker 1: the owner of an Irish import shop. Uh, he does
Speaker 1: sell groceries. He felt that was okay by him. But
Speaker 1: there are some other businesses a pawn shop, tied and
Speaker 1: massage place uh that were at least had open signs
Speaker 1: uh and sort of questionable interpretation of the central services. Chris.
Speaker 1: You know, I do wonder too. It sounds like people
Speaker 1: certainly taking it seriously because we've heard, you know, we
Speaker 1: just heard from the New Jersey governor and even from
Speaker 1: the Massachusetts governor saying, you know, you you got to
Speaker 1: take this seriously, you cannot be out and about. But
Speaker 1: we've had stories about folks in Florida, younger generations, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, out there and congregating in large groups. What
Speaker 1: are the conversations that you're hearing or it sounds like
Speaker 1: people are all of all ages are taking it seriously?
Speaker 1: Is that the case? Certainly for what I'm seeing? You know,
Speaker 1: I see you know, people just literally moving off of
Speaker 1: the sidewalk as you're walking to you into the street
Speaker 1: just to keep within six feet of you. Um, have
Speaker 1: been to teach yet, probably will take a drive up
Speaker 1: to the to uh you know, Hollywood and Highland and
Speaker 1: check out, you know what is sort of our kind
Speaker 1: of premier tourist destination there on the Chinese Heater and
Speaker 1: the Walk of Fame. But um, it's it's definitely quiet
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles today, all right, Chris, Paul, Mary, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for that update. Obviously, you know, anyone
Speaker 1: who's been to Los Angeles, even the way you describe it,
Speaker 1: it's hard to get your head around in New York
Speaker 1: City from what I hear, I haven't been there in
Speaker 1: a week. Uh, in Downtown Manhattan, in Midtown Manhattan, rather
Speaker 1: wear our offices Carolina. You're there earlier this week, but
Speaker 1: I think a similar scene and certainly it's going to
Speaker 1: get even more so, uh now that we have this
Speaker 1: effective shelter in place. That was Chris Paul Mary. He
Speaker 1: is our Los Angeles Bureau chief, longtime resident of that city,
Speaker 1: so uh, it really knows what he's talking about there.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Now, this story, it's the
Speaker 1: cover story of the magazine this week. I must read.
Speaker 1: It's about finding the cure for the coronavirus and the
Speaker 1: researcher who helps save millions of lives from HIV now
Speaker 1: trying to do the same with COVID nineteen. Rob Lingrith
Speaker 1: is healthcare reporter at Bloomberg News. He's on the phone
Speaker 1: in New York. Also with us. Joel Weber, editor of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week, on the phone from Brooklyn. This is
Speaker 1: a great story, um, and this was an individual Rob,
Speaker 1: to be quite honest, I didn't know much about tell
Speaker 1: us about him well, so he first walking into fame
Speaker 1: in the ninety nineties when he was one of the
Speaker 1: doctor Hoe David Hoe. He was one of the key
Speaker 1: people who tested HIV drug cocktails. It dramatically lowered the
Speaker 1: death rates for HIV and AIDS UH and he was
Speaker 1: the first doctor to be named Times Man of the
Speaker 1: Year back then. So he's kind of one of the
Speaker 1: world's most famous living age researchers. And now he's you know,
Speaker 1: changing much of his lab to focus on rapidly finding
Speaker 1: a treatment for the coronavirus. And so, Joel, how did
Speaker 1: this figure into the way that you guys have been
Speaker 1: covering this story. I mean, it's a very powerful cover
Speaker 1: and I have to say an optimistic when at a
Speaker 1: time when uh, a lot of us are feeling pretty
Speaker 1: down about our chances here. Well, look, to be clear,
Speaker 1: you know they're not they're not near a cure like
Speaker 1: right now. This is not a plug and play moment,
Speaker 1: but you know, this is an example of a line
Speaker 1: of coverage that we're rapidly working on, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: what are our chances do you actually get something that
Speaker 1: looks like a treatment or a cure? And you know,
Speaker 1: David Hoe is sort of a huge name in a
Speaker 1: certain world, and that was why we wanted to put
Speaker 1: the spotlight on him. But to be clear, you know,
Speaker 1: and and Bob can speak more to this. There are
Speaker 1: similar efforts going on lots of different places right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Bob talk about that, because you know, it does
Speaker 1: feel like we are getting this sense of urgency and
Speaker 1: maybe it was going on and we just weren't paying
Speaker 1: attention to it but this week, and maybe it's because
Speaker 1: a lot of this is being pumped up by the
Speaker 1: President and others that there is this in a very
Speaker 1: productive way, sort of a race for a cure here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's absolutely kind of what's going on. And I think
Speaker 1: you know what happened was, you know, when it was
Speaker 1: still mostly in China, I think there was a sense
Speaker 1: of wait and see a little bit among some of
Speaker 1: the big drug and biotech companies. So you just didn't know,
Speaker 1: you know, whether this thing, like so many other epidemics
Speaker 1: in the past, I was going to like fade a
Speaker 1: little bit and by the time they had treatments and
Speaker 1: I've no one but needing them anymore. But that's clearly
Speaker 1: not going to be the case. This thing is around
Speaker 1: it It's here to stay, even if it, say, for example,
Speaker 1: size little in the summer, even if the social distance
Speaker 1: distancing stuff works, and then slows it down a lot.
Speaker 1: That disease isn't going to go away. There's only been
Speaker 1: one virus in the world that's ever gotten not to
Speaker 1: such an extent that he's like totally eradicated in that smallpox,
Speaker 1: and that wasn't a respiratory virus. Isn't that Isn't that
Speaker 1: incredible when you think about that, like all the virus
Speaker 1: in the world in the history of the world, and
Speaker 1: we really only eradicated one of them, and that shows
Speaker 1: you what we're up against here, Bob. You know, you
Speaker 1: know one thing I also thought was really striking your
Speaker 1: story is that, you know, you talked about the work
Speaker 1: that doctor who has done and that you know, when
Speaker 1: Stars was around, he was you know, had developed antibodies
Speaker 1: um but by the time you know, we got wrapped up,
Speaker 1: everybody kind of lost interest in finding some kind of
Speaker 1: treatment for it. And he didn't need a lot more money.
Speaker 1: I think it was about twenty million. You write in
Speaker 1: your story, I do wonder is this different because we
Speaker 1: are anticipating that the coronavirus in some form or another
Speaker 1: um or COVID nineteen, this is going to be with
Speaker 1: us for a while. Yeah, I think this will definitely
Speaker 1: be with us for a while. And I think what
Speaker 1: happened with Stars and some of the other coronavirus outbreaks,
Speaker 1: so there's another one in the Middle East called Middle
Speaker 1: East Respiratory syndrome. What happened in the past is we've
Speaker 1: got a false sense of security and that some of
Speaker 1: those uh you know, didn't really fully take off and
Speaker 1: when we were able to suppress them before they really
Speaker 1: caught hold. But this one just spreads more easily, and
Speaker 1: it's just out there in the world now, and so
Speaker 1: we really do need to develop a treatment. And the
Speaker 1: long term I think there it is a virus. We
Speaker 1: have a track record of eventually developing treatments for viruses
Speaker 1: that are successful. So I think long term there's reasons
Speaker 1: from optimism, but we must be realistic and that a
Speaker 1: lot of these treatments they aren't going to come like
Speaker 1: right now when we want them right now. What we have,
Speaker 1: as we say in the story, is kind of soap
Speaker 1: and social distancing. Those the main tools we have right now.
Speaker 1: And so help us understand, I mean, Bob, you understand
Speaker 1: this so well. That's sort of the the medical pharmaceutical
Speaker 1: sort of industrial complex. And I'm not saying that conspiratorially.
Speaker 1: But it's a complicated world, and you do have some
Speaker 1: of the biggest companies attacking this. How much cooperation is there,
Speaker 1: how much healthy competition is there? Help us get a
Speaker 1: sense of the broader landscape here, Well, yes, you do
Speaker 1: have all sorts of companies starting to do all sorts
Speaker 1: of things with both drugs and vaccines, and it's hard
Speaker 1: even for someone like me to keep track of. Frankly, uh,
Speaker 1: and it's I really don't have a good sense of,
Speaker 1: you know, what the competition, what the corporation is now,
Speaker 1: because so many different new things are starting up all
Speaker 1: at once. There's companies like Jolliett Sciences that are testing drugs.
Speaker 1: There's companies like are You General and Pharmaceuticals that are
Speaker 1: also working on antibodies. The Regeneralan is another company, and
Speaker 1: I believe there is some corporation between doctor Home and
Speaker 1: Regeneral on at least some of the projects. Uh. But yes,
Speaker 1: there's many things being started up very rapidly, and it's
Speaker 1: just it's a very modeled it on certain situation because
Speaker 1: many of these things are just kind of going into
Speaker 1: testing now. We really don't have a good sense yet
Speaker 1: of which ones are going to turn out to be
Speaker 1: the most promising. So, Bob, can you bring it back
Speaker 1: to Hope for a second and real quick and just
Speaker 1: and I know I can hear Carol already just telling
Speaker 1: you know, you know, go ahead and wrap it up
Speaker 1: and keep No. No, no, no, that's a great question.
Speaker 1: We no, no, no, we have good time. What is
Speaker 1: the approach that doctor who is using or thinks he
Speaker 1: will be able to use to to you know, take
Speaker 1: a number on the coronavirus. Yeah, so he is the
Speaker 1: doctor Hall is basically leveraging some of the years of
Speaker 1: expertise and learnings uh they've gotten from developing treatments for
Speaker 1: HIV successfully and in fact, one of the main approaches
Speaker 1: uh he he is taking is as to try to
Speaker 1: attack some of the same enzymes in the coronavirus that
Speaker 1: were also present and successfully attacked by HIV drugs. Uh.
Speaker 1: So he's basically implying from the learnings to make kind
Speaker 1: of pill style drugs uh that they could block the
Speaker 1: replication of dis coronavirus and possible other future coronavirus strains.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the main things he's doing. Uh.
Speaker 1: And he's also separately in a separate project working on
Speaker 1: antibodies against the coronavirus based on blood samples from patients
Speaker 1: who have recovered. So he's kind of doing several separate
Speaker 1: projects at once and hopes that one of them comes through.
Speaker 1: What I'm curious about too. Until you know, we thought
Speaker 1: this was such an important story. We gave We're gonna
Speaker 1: give you a lot of time today. I even went
Speaker 1: on surveillance yesterday and teased up this story. Um, what
Speaker 1: I'm curious is what's his time frame? Because I think
Speaker 1: as Americans, we're watching the task Force updates, the Coronavirus
Speaker 1: Task Force updates. There's a lot health officials talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, drugs on the market that are already out
Speaker 1: there that maybe could be used. I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of confusion about, you know, exactly what is the
Speaker 1: medical cure. When is the medical cure potentially going to
Speaker 1: be out there? Um, it's not anytime soon. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: the short answer is, you know, we don't know. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the fact is that you know, most of these
Speaker 1: things we're talking about are not yet in human trials,
Speaker 1: and the things how it is working on are probably
Speaker 1: more than a year away from human trials. There are
Speaker 1: a few things at other companies such as Agileiad drug
Speaker 1: Agiliad scientist drugs that are in trials right now. But
Speaker 1: the you know, if you look back at a bowla,
Speaker 1: we actually developed sucessial treatments for a bola, but it
Speaker 1: took a while. Uh So so it's possible we could
Speaker 1: get lucky in one of these kind of off the
Speaker 1: shelf things that they're talking about right now. When these
Speaker 1: off the shelf drugs was kind of already out there,
Speaker 1: uh may work an extend the catch this virus, but um,
Speaker 1: the likelihoods will probably need to develop uh targeted customized
Speaker 1: treatments that are targeted right at this virus to really
Speaker 1: have something that really works. Well, Joel, I wanna if
Speaker 1: I can, you know, just take an opportunities as we
Speaker 1: do have. You've got a couple more minutes just to
Speaker 1: ask you, like how it's going, you know, with the
Speaker 1: magazine and things like that, we really haven't had a
Speaker 1: chance to catch up with you on air about sort
Speaker 1: of putting this all together and keeping on top of
Speaker 1: the news, help us understand what's going on. Well, we've
Speaker 1: never been this remote before and so I think, um,
Speaker 1: that part is just to challenge for for you know,
Speaker 1: doing doing work in general. And I know everybody else
Speaker 1: knows what I'm talking about right now. It's just like
Speaker 1: you go, you go stir crazy. Um after day two,
Speaker 1: I think, And here we are on on sort of
Speaker 1: day four and counting for most of us, UM, So
Speaker 1: I think there's that's just the real thing. Um. And
Speaker 1: we've been able to do a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: the work that we need to remotely so far. So
Speaker 1: knock on what everything is good on that front? Um?
Speaker 1: And we you know, we just have a ton of
Speaker 1: stories that we have in motion, um that we're really
Speaker 1: excited about. Not unlike you know, some of them are
Speaker 1: all out like bombs where it's just like let's talk,
Speaker 1: let's get into the science of like how do we
Speaker 1: get out of this mess? But look like this story
Speaker 1: is touching so many facets of our lives. You think
Speaker 1: about the economic implications of this and what the failout
Speaker 1: shatter is all about, Like we're gonna be this is
Speaker 1: by far the story and look like it's looking like
Speaker 1: a lot longer than that. Well, I just think of
Speaker 1: what you guys did last week and making it completely
Speaker 1: the issue and saying, you know, talking about the last year,
Speaker 1: you know your spot on um Bob, if I can
Speaker 1: just bring you in for one last question, um Or,
Speaker 1: we've got a little bit more David Hoe, is he
Speaker 1: talking with the folks in Washington? I do you know
Speaker 1: the magazine has done some great coverage about talking about
Speaker 1: the importance of coordinated efforts, you know, certainly on a
Speaker 1: financial and market basis, but even more so in terms
Speaker 1: of attacking the virus on a health bas is. So
Speaker 1: I do wonder did David ho what was his perspective
Speaker 1: or take on that that is he being reached, you know,
Speaker 1: called upon. Does he feel like the health community is
Speaker 1: really being brought in together to work on this? Well
Speaker 1: he does? You know, I don't know the extent of
Speaker 1: his contacts in Washington. I assume he probably does have
Speaker 1: lots of them. We were lucky to get and get
Speaker 1: into Dr Horow, you know, and a few days before
Speaker 1: New York see him in person. Before New York that
Speaker 1: kind of totally shut down. And you know, like many
Speaker 1: you know, he's has so many demands on his time
Speaker 1: right now, like a lot of that researcher's responded to
Speaker 1: this that he's you know, becomes very hard to get
Speaker 1: through to it all sort of this fazz old sense
Speaker 1: of trying to find something. But he has lots of
Speaker 1: contacts around the world and China and Hong Kong and elsewhere,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of one reason why he was able
Speaker 1: to get this effort up and running so quickly, because
Speaker 1: you know, he has he is very well connected to
Speaker 1: the virus research community with lots of people. All Right,
Speaker 1: we're gonna leave it there. Thank you so much. Bob Langreth,
Speaker 1: Robert lang Grith is his byline. He's a help care reporter.
Speaker 1: He's got the cover story this week in Business Week,
Speaker 1: and it's an important one, all about the race story
Speaker 1: for a cure, really a must read, telling you about
Speaker 1: someone that maybe you've heard his name, but the backstory,
Speaker 1: here's some great details about even uh dr host sort
Speaker 1: of learning things about bats and their role in all
Speaker 1: this and how many there are in the world, and
Speaker 1: uh and whatnot. So our thanks to him, to Bob Lingerth,
Speaker 1: as well as of course to Joe Webber, the editor
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Business Week, both joining us on the phone
Speaker 1: from their respective homes. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: with Carol Messer and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio tracking
Speaker 1: the path of COVID nineteen. It is incredibly helpful in
Speaker 1: learning about the virus and how to fight it. Andy
Speaker 1: Pecos Pecos is Professor of Molecular microbiology and Immunology at
Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health, joining us
Speaker 1: on the phone from Baltimore. The Bloomberg School of Public
Speaker 1: Health supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, Founder, Bloomberg l P,
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Philanthropies. UM Andy, nice to have you here
Speaker 1: with us. UM tell us a little bit about tracking
Speaker 1: and how easy it is and what kind of coordinated
Speaker 1: efforts are we seeing around the globe to be able
Speaker 1: to do that in a really smart way. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of now um UH sites that
Speaker 1: are ramping up their testing. You're seeing a lot of
Speaker 1: reporting of this data in almost real time, and now
Speaker 1: there's multiple web based um UM sites that you can
Speaker 1: look at to sort of see where cases are occurring
Speaker 1: and the rate at which they're increasing in different areas.
Speaker 1: So I think tracking in terms of of of accessibility,
Speaker 1: the data is getting pretty good, although I think we
Speaker 1: still need to ramp up and do more testing in
Speaker 1: many places, particularly here in the US. So Dr Pekasher,
Speaker 1: I mean, help us understand how this is spreading. What
Speaker 1: are we learning that's new and different? How much, uh
Speaker 1: do we know about this that's just based on on
Speaker 1: previous models. I think all of us are just trying
Speaker 1: to get some sense of where this goes next. And
Speaker 1: I feel like you're much smarter than I am about
Speaker 1: understanding that. Well, you know, we're we're all learning along
Speaker 1: the way here. Um. I think you know. The main
Speaker 1: thing that has changed, UM probably over the last month
Speaker 1: significantly has been we went from assuming that most of
Speaker 1: the infected cases are showing severe disease UM in other words,
Speaker 1: strong enough to reach after some medical care, to now
Speaker 1: getting a sense that most of the people are not
Speaker 1: getting disease that's so severe that they would necessarily seek
Speaker 1: out UM medical care. And what that does is, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's great because obviously it's telling us that there's fewer
Speaker 1: cases are going to be severe in terms of the
Speaker 1: overall number of cases. But it makes tracking and keeping
Speaker 1: and monitoring for people who are potential spreaders very very
Speaker 1: difficult because you can no longer say symptoms are going
Speaker 1: to bring you into a containing program. And so is
Speaker 1: that why. I mean, I do feel like we're getting
Speaker 1: this renewed or maybe new sense of urgency from governors
Speaker 1: and mayors and whatnot. Is that essentially why all this
Speaker 1: social distance? This is a dumb question maybe and an
Speaker 1: obvious question, but is that why this social distancing piece
Speaker 1: is so important? Because you've got a lot of unwitting
Speaker 1: carriers out there. No, I think that's absolutely the case. Um.
Speaker 1: And we're starting to realize how how how many of
Speaker 1: those there are, and so the sooner you can instigate
Speaker 1: some of these UM or implement I should say, sorry, uh,
Speaker 1: some of these methods, the more likely you are to
Speaker 1: really make an effort to make an impact in terms
Speaker 1: of the number of cases. And it has to happen
Speaker 1: when now, when there are low numbers of cases around,
Speaker 1: because if you can find five or six really sick people,
Speaker 1: you've probably got a huge number of people who are
Speaker 1: spreading in the community. UM. Dr Peckers, what is it
Speaker 1: that you find so troubling about this virus in particular? Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's exactly that. UM. In certain populations you
Speaker 1: can see mild disease. Yet in other populations, like the elderly,
Speaker 1: like those with secondary medical conditions like respiratory conditions. This
Speaker 1: virus is still very very deadly UM and UM. You know,
Speaker 1: initial numbers here in the US are showing that there
Speaker 1: is a little bit more severe disease in younger population.
Speaker 1: So I think that even younger populations need to think
Speaker 1: carefully about or need to think seriously about this problem
Speaker 1: because UM, it's causing disease across the spectrum. But again,
Speaker 1: there are there are small groups of populations that it
Speaker 1: causes very severe disease in and we have to find
Speaker 1: ways to protect them. What does it mean for the future,
Speaker 1: And I do think about I think what's striking about
Speaker 1: this too is that folks are saying this is going
Speaker 1: to be a virus that's going to be with us
Speaker 1: for a while. And I know a vaccine may take
Speaker 1: until perhaps to find that out, but I do wonder
Speaker 1: are we entering an era where we are just going
Speaker 1: to be dealing with a whole new class of viruses. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, this virus UM, you know, is going to
Speaker 1: be a challenge for us. UM. We don't know how
Speaker 1: trans mission is going to change over time. I think
Speaker 1: we look to countries like China and Korea, UM and
Speaker 1: Japan as countries that have found a way to control
Speaker 1: the number of cases. But what we now don't know
Speaker 1: is how long we have to keep these public health
Speaker 1: interventions in place to maintain this virus at very low levels.
Speaker 1: That's the big challenge going forward is not knowing how
Speaker 1: long some of these efforts are going to be in place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that seems to be the case too. And I would
Speaker 1: imagine you've studied this so extensively that you also, I
Speaker 1: would imagine fear a a moment where people say, Okay,
Speaker 1: even if it's like a slight all clear, people just
Speaker 1: sort of go nuts again and they're like they're out
Speaker 1: at bars and they're doing their thing, and they take
Speaker 1: a vacation and all those things. I have to think
Speaker 1: that's something we're worried about too right now. And there
Speaker 1: there are multiple examples throughout history where public health interventions
Speaker 1: have worked very well, but then they're either relaxed too
Speaker 1: quickly or um people start to not follow them a
Speaker 1: string and late as they should, and you start to
Speaker 1: see these rebounds of cases that come in so um.
Speaker 1: So you know, the flattening the curve that everybody is
Speaker 1: talking about these days that you're seeing on social media
Speaker 1: is a very very real thing that that we have
Speaker 1: to um um work towards using these public health interventions,
Speaker 1: because that's all we have right now. All right, we
Speaker 1: really appreciate your time. Dr Andy Pekosh is Professor of
Speaker 1: molecular molecular microbiology and Immunology at the Johns Hopkins University
Speaker 1: Bloomberg School of Public Health. As you can tell by
Speaker 1: the name, the Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by
Speaker 1: Mike Bloomberg foundering of Bloomberg GALP, Bloomberg Philanthropyes, and of
Speaker 1: course the parent company of this radio station, roc A
Speaker 1: journal Now, but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no no, no, honey, please,
Speaker 1: I'll do the riding rival Listen, I want to drive,
Speaker 1: Just drive, baby, the questions trying yea, this is the
Speaker 1: drive to the globe. Thanks, we'll try us on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: You've got about thirteen minutes left in the trading day
Speaker 1: to wrap up the Friday, but really to wrap up
Speaker 1: what's been a very volatile week when it comes to
Speaker 1: the financial markets and equity markets. Back with us is
Speaker 1: Abbe Desponde. He is founder and chief investment officer at
Speaker 1: center Stone Investors. He's joining us on the phone from Connecticut. Abe,
Speaker 1: so good to have you here with us crazy week,
Speaker 1: and I do want to both Jason, I want to
Speaker 1: hear your perspective on the markets. Tell us though, a
Speaker 1: little bit about your personal life, you guys, okay, Um,
Speaker 1: the impact that this is having on you, hey, Carol, Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's very tweet of you to enquire We're
Speaker 1: we're good. I'm really more worried about the city. I mean,
Speaker 1: sixty percent in New York City has its comprised of
Speaker 1: people who really can't pay rent after if they don't
Speaker 1: it one weeks or the pay I mean, they're living
Speaker 1: week by week, and so we've got like a major
Speaker 1: kind of civil or civic issue that that needs to
Speaker 1: be tended to. Kind of really spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time thinking about that. Um, but I do appreciate you
Speaker 1: We're fine. Um, that's you know, but of a panic
Speaker 1: everywhere in the Northeast and increasingly more pack driven as
Speaker 1: you know. Well, it is sorry just to pick up
Speaker 1: on that if I can't. I mean, it is interesting,
Speaker 1: Abbe just to go with what you're saying for a second.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is revealing some real sort of cracks
Speaker 1: in the system in many ways right sort of societally
Speaker 1: and I know we know from talking to you a
Speaker 1: lot in the past, like you're incredibly thoughtful about that
Speaker 1: and you and you think well beyond the markets and
Speaker 1: think culturally and societally and and things like that. What
Speaker 1: do you think as we move through this, the outcomes
Speaker 1: will being uh, well, hopefully more positive one where um,
Speaker 1: people are more you know, apt to think about their
Speaker 1: neighbors U concerns and not that's not just their own concerns. Uh.
Speaker 1: The the you know, the fact that the you know
Speaker 1: people lived data day by day or whatever. The paycheck
Speaker 1: to paycheck is not new. I mean, it's in fact,
Speaker 1: I mean half the country doesn't have any savings and
Speaker 1: this has been the case for a long, long long time. Um.
Speaker 1: What what I am hopeful for, and I can see
Speaker 1: this occurring, um, is that you know, communities begin to
Speaker 1: kind of get together to help the least fortunate. And
Speaker 1: this case we fought us fortunate are those most vulnerable
Speaker 1: and older folks that need to be cared for. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's a really important issue. And I do
Speaker 1: wonder when we as we see these programs come out
Speaker 1: of Washington in particular, that there's going to be hopefully
Speaker 1: the assistance directed towards individuals like that you're talking about,
Speaker 1: because those are certainly very much in need. We do
Speaker 1: want to ask you, um abe, because I was reading
Speaker 1: through your notes, I mean you sound like that. You know,
Speaker 1: you guys are putting some money to work, so you're
Speaker 1: seeing opportunity at this point. Yeah. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I never want to sound like a profit here or
Speaker 1: anything like that, but you know, we we do, um,
Speaker 1: we have a business to run and um so uh,
Speaker 1: you know, in the normal environment, will have established some
Speaker 1: sort of intrinsic value for a company and will kind
Speaker 1: of trade based on where the price is relative to
Speaker 1: intrinsic value. Right now, we're there's such a great deal,
Speaker 1: and obviously there's so much uncertainty regarding whether or not
Speaker 1: certain companies can't even survive from we're in a few months.
Speaker 1: I mean, business has shut down, right so, UM, I
Speaker 1: think the government I mean, you know, hey, I'm going
Speaker 1: to tell you in the beginning, I was really kind
Speaker 1: of irritated about still the kind of partisanship that was
Speaker 1: going on just two weeks ago, and um and I
Speaker 1: you know, voiced my own concerns with the people that
Speaker 1: I know in in in you know, in politics, and
Speaker 1: who didn't take long for them to get their act together,
Speaker 1: and um realize that the United States is the main constituency. Um,
Speaker 1: so I'm kind of impressed. In that case. The fact
Speaker 1: that you know, we've essentially been ordered to shut down
Speaker 1: all business means that the government needs to have a
Speaker 1: massive backstop for business, um, just so they don't have
Speaker 1: to lay off all their employees and create that kind
Speaker 1: of depression era sort of scenario that people are fearing.
Speaker 1: Uh So, I mean, on the positive side, everything's happening
Speaker 1: that should happen, given the type of like bird strike
Speaker 1: we just just that had that we just had. So. Um.
Speaker 1: What we're doing, from a portfolio perspective is we're, however,
Speaker 1: focusing more on companies. Um. We had these in our
Speaker 1: portfolio anyway, but we're focusing even more on them businesses
Speaker 1: where the intrinsic values are more like more than likely
Speaker 1: to be stable. So companies like TransCanada, which is a
Speaker 1: pipeline operator Target in the United States is going to
Speaker 1: clearly gained market share. In fact, in the worst case,
Speaker 1: there are only going to be three retailers left Walmart,
Speaker 1: Target and and uh in Amazon. So the priority really
Speaker 1: is focusing on a focusing on these businesses where we
Speaker 1: can be certain that balance sheet and business model can
Speaker 1: withstand literally anything including this. On the down the line
Speaker 1: a little bit are companies that have probably very good
Speaker 1: chance of surviving, whose intrinsic values will be variable, but
Speaker 1: you know, within a tolerable, within a tolerance, but the earnings,
Speaker 1: you know, are clearly uncertain. You know, put a sort
Speaker 1: of a target in there. Sinocco. You know another company
Speaker 1: we own is called Sonocco, not the not the gas
Speaker 1: station company, but it's a it's a materials company. Packaging.
Speaker 1: They have a monopoly on toilet paper rolls, the card
Speaker 1: cardboard inserts, um. You know they have they are they
Speaker 1: serve the packaging packaged goods companies that you know, Pringles
Speaker 1: and things like that that you bind the grocery store.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the type of business is doing probably
Speaker 1: really well right now considering their cost materials corrugated papers
Speaker 1: going down, and there's a huge amount of demand for
Speaker 1: their customers products. But you know, and then down the
Speaker 1: line are the kind of Okay, these stocks are down, um,
Speaker 1: but I know when they're going to recover if and
Speaker 1: you know, value investors were still looking at maybe there
Speaker 1: and going Okay, we'll take we'll take some chance there. Um.
Speaker 1: Now we're basically fully invested. So you know, I have
Speaker 1: to caution that I'm almost always early, um, and in
Speaker 1: this case, I wouldn't be surprised for early. I also
Speaker 1: have to, you know, admit that I really didn't see
Speaker 1: this coming at all, and it was very, very, very
Speaker 1: slow to react to it. Certain times you want your
Speaker 1: captain to be kind of, you know, like slow and study.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you know that slow and study is it's just
Speaker 1: the slow part hurt you and I and they I
Speaker 1: want to ask you just about that, like why do
Speaker 1: you think it because you are always looking around the corner,
Speaker 1: Like why do you think you and and many many
Speaker 1: others sort of missed this in many ways or missed
Speaker 1: the severity of it. Well. I don't know about everybody else,
Speaker 1: but I just was complacent. Um. I have seen because
Speaker 1: I've been investing in these global financial markets three decades,
Speaker 1: and I've seen huge like financial crises and housing collapses.
Speaker 1: I mean not just in the United States but all over,
Speaker 1: currency wars. I've seen viral epidemics before. Yeah, so and
Speaker 1: with that mindset. Oh, I've seen it all, you know. Well,
Speaker 1: it just made me complacent, right I did. What I
Speaker 1: did not see is how how quickly this panic would spread,
Speaker 1: and how the reaction of governments would become so extreme
Speaker 1: to this so or maybe I mean rightly extreme. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say that it's wrong. Um so that
Speaker 1: that was at least my mistake. Everyone else I have
Speaker 1: no idea, but I clearly could have done a better job. Well,
Speaker 1: we're seeing, you know, headlines continuing to cross. Just want
Speaker 1: to mention the energy sector just so beating up occidental
Speaker 1: holding talks with borrowers to address the dead pile that's
Speaker 1: out there, you know, when we get to the other
Speaker 1: side of the SAB. I mean, are you anticipating that
Speaker 1: there's companies out there that I mean, will there be
Speaker 1: a big wave of consolidation just companies that are going
Speaker 1: to have to be brought up? Are just companies that
Speaker 1: will just not make it? Well, we'll see what. So
Speaker 1: there's two paths. One is um since it's a government shutdown,
Speaker 1: the government back backstops pay rolls like they just announced
Speaker 1: in the UK. It's something I've been pushing with the government,
Speaker 1: I mean, and I can't even believe I'm advocating some
Speaker 1: of these things, but it's necessary right now. But in
Speaker 1: that case, we can just put a quote unquote pause,
Speaker 1: which is the I guess that's the term tousure um.
Speaker 1: But a real pause requires like literally everyone's secure, including employment.
Speaker 1: If that happens, then it will be a slow but
Speaker 1: methodical um recovery. It will take a while because people
Speaker 1: aren't just gonna go out and you know, hang out
Speaker 1: with everybody else after this, but that would that that
Speaker 1: would allow for a methodical recovery. Another one is like
Speaker 1: a haphazard um, you know, approach to filling or plugging
Speaker 1: holes as they pop up, and that could really create
Speaker 1: a unintended waiver line and tone of consequences. All right,
Speaker 1: we're gonna leave. Are so sorry. I know we had
Speaker 1: to drop out there and we apologize. I'm but great
Speaker 1: to get your thoughts there. Abbe dis By Day, founder
Speaker 1: and chief investment officer at center Stone Investors, joining us
Speaker 1: on the phone from New York City. Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week. You can subscribe to the podcast
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