WEBVTT - How the Streaming Ad Market Is Changing for Better and Worse with Wurl’s Dave Bernath 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.720 Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.680 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.520 Tyler Aquallina with Variety Intelligence Platform. Today's episode is all 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.880 about the connected TV AD market, that segment of the 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.080 digital advertising business that includes almost all streaming video ads, 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:25.680 as well as advertising on the smart TV interfaces many 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.080 of us use every day. The CTV market is expanding rapidly, 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:31.960 but it's also facing some major growing pains. The digital 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.880 ad pipelines remain complicated and often confusing. Amazon Prime Video 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.599 recently brought a flood of new inventory to market, depressing 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.040 ad prices. And then there's YouTube, which is increasingly dominating 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:44.680 TV screens as well as mobile, making it difficult for 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.440 other players to compete for viewers and ad dollars. There's 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.400 a lot to discuss, and today's guest will get into 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:51.720 all of it. Dave Bernath is General manager of The 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.800 America's at World, a subsidiary of appleven that helps connect 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.040 streaming content owners and advertisers. Dave began his career in 0:00:58.040 --> 0:00:59.800 the cable TV business, but now he has a front 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:01.720 row seat to the changes playing out in the streaming 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.840 TV space. He's an expert in content strategy as well 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.120 as the fast space that's free ed support and streaming 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:09.720 TV and the perfect guest to break down this complex 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:13.640 but vitally important business. All Right, Dave Brenath, the general 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:20.640 manager for the Americas at World. Welcome to the podcast, Dave, So, 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.759 I do want to start off by talking a little 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:27.080 bit about what World does and your place in the 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.080 obviously very complex connected TV landscape. Can you tell us 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:32.560 just a bit about what you guys do? 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:34.680 Sure? Yeah. 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:39.480 World is really the power the tech behind a lot 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:44.040 of streaming channels and programmatic advertising across CTV. So think 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.840 of big brands like A and E Networks or Bloomberg 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:52.920 or Scripts with Ion, and then endpoints like Samsung and 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.160 LG and Pluto. We power those channels that are on 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:00.400 those services. Really thousands of channels globally across you know, 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.000 hundreds of endpoints, and that means you're talking about literally 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.800 billions of hours of viewing every month and across that footprint, 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.680 then giving our advertising partners access to really over ninety 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.600 billion of als a month. So we're we're a key 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:20.200 technology provider across the ad supported streaming space. And we're 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.440 also fortunate to be owned by a company called app Lovin, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:28.240 who's a dominant player in the mobile performance marketing ecosystem, 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:30.400 and we sort of act as their streaming arm. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:31.720 They brought us a number of years ago. 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.600 They're a great owner and together we have sort of 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.200 a you know, a robust innovation culture which is kind 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.480 of there in their DNA, and so it's exciting to 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.120 be in the space we're in and also to have 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.880 the backing of ownership like app love and yeah. 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:46.320 Yeah, for sure. 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:48.560 So it sounds like you guys have have a pretty 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.240 you know, up close view to you know, what's going 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.200 on in the streaming space and the streaming advertising space specifically, 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.160 and you know that space really seems to be poised 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.320 at a transformative moment right now. What are some of 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.079 the big picture questions that the industry has been grappling 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.320 with recently based on the conversations that you've been having. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.280 Yeah, I mean, I think at the highest level, if 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:15.160 we're being very simplistic about it, historically, money usually follows 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.560 the audience from platform to platform, and we're in a 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.240 lag right. I don't know what the exact numbers are. 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.960 I've seen graphs from Evan Shapiro and other people that 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.000 you know, and we have the Nielsen. 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.919 Gauge, but roughly, let's call it. 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.240 You know, ten to fifteen percent of television ad spend 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:36.440 is in the streaming space, but forty five and growing 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.920 percent of the viewership is in streaming, So there's a 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.640 really big imbalance. So at the highest level, that kind 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:45.400 of is the beginning and the end of the discussion. 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.040 What are the things that need to happen to get 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.600 that money to move to where the audience already is. 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.480 So I think that's probably it's probably worth pausing after 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.000 that comment because that's kind of that kind of is 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.200 the is the overarching theme. There's a lot of things 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.840 inside of that, but I think that that is that, 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:04.880 you know, that's certainly the main point. 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.880 Yeah, well, what does need to happen for that? You know, what, 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.640 in your opinion, are some of the things that would 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:15.480 help to you know, help the industry move to a 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:19.000 more to a space that you know, more adequately represents 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:20.440 where the viewership is actually going. 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.080 Yeah, I think, you know, a common currency around measurement 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.960 and standardization is definitely an issue we all, you know, 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.640 groaned about Nielsen forever, and I come from the cable 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.919 TV business by background, But as imperfect as the currency was, 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:39.919 it was a currency, g RPS, you know, Nielsen Ratings Share. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:44.480 All these kind of basic fundamental building blocks of measuring 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:49.159 audiences were there, agreed upon, transacted upon. We don't have 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:54.279 that in CTV. And so every year I see the panels, 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.320 Everyone talks about collaboration, everyone talks about getting there, but 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.919 I'm still waiting to significant movement in that regard, and 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.600 that that's certainly needed because planners need to be able 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.160 to measure cross platform and buy across the ecosystem in 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:13.799 a consistent fashion rather than you know, buy multiple campaigns 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.800 instead of various walled gardens with different metrics and first 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:21.039 party reporting, et cetera. So I really hope with ib's 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.800 leadership and everyone's saying the right thing that that will 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.280 start to move in that direction. 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.360 But I certainly certainly measurements. It is a big one. 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.960 Yeah, what about you know, the I think we hear 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.599 a lot about how how complicated the CTV marketplaces are. 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.839 You know, is that an issue that continues to be 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:41.599 a headache for for the key players? 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.480 Yeah, I think you're right. You know, if you look 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.440 at a loom escape charter. It can be a little 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.359 mind numbing across all the different DSPs and SSPs and 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.680 d MPs and other providers that are part of the 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:56.719 programmatic ad stack, if you will. 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.800 And you obviously have big players like the tra A Desk. 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.599 You know, but where buyers can buy you know, across 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.640 various platforms, and we have the Roku Amazon announcement. But 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.760 it's just so much more complicated, you know, than it 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:15.880 is in legacy television. I know, I'm not an expert 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.640 on on you know, on these various pieces. I just 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.360 know enough to be dangerous and to try to help 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.320 us grow our business. And we certainly are in the 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.880 solutions business. So world's really focused on how to make 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.480 any part of this ecosystem more efficient, more optimized, more 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.640 more understandable, more you know, transactable. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.680 But but it is very complicated. I was at. 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.120 A I think it was maybe the Ad Club of 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.479 New York, or maybe it was an IV event. But 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.400 some some luminary got have made a quip about how, 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.960 you know, we the collective we had kind of blown 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.960 it with the first you know, sort of chapters of 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.240 how CTV had been created and we need to kind 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:56.640 of undo and rebuild a little bit. 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.040 And I thought that was kind of funny. Interesting. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.520 So then you say, world's kind of focused on you know, solutions. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.920 What are some of the strategies that you guys are 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:08.680 looking at to help with that process. 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:11.040 Yeah, I'll give you a perfect example. 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.840 You know, you might think that in a digital age 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:16.760 because obviously at a high level, right, what makes c 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.040 TV so exciting, Well, what makes it so exciting is 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:25.120 that it's a digital delivery method that brings to television 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.600 some of the capabilities that have worked on the webin 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.640 and mobile right in terms of targeting. And you know, 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.320 you're going to see a different ad than I will 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.560 because you live somewhere different. I'll see the Tri State 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.160 FOD dealership, You'll see the southern California Ford dealership, assuming 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.160 that you might be in LA and on and on 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:46.800 and on, right, And so that's super exciting. And you 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.440 would think that the signals that are flowing through the ecosystem, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.040 like what's the genre of the show that's playing right now, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:59.040 would be consistent and easily you know, pass through the bidstream. 0:07:59.480 --> 0:07:59.880 It isn't. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.560 Folks have got you know, maybe not great systems that 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.280 manage their content. You know, it's been moved to digital, 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.000 but certain things were never created in the first place, 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.680 or spellings are different as the whole can of worms's 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.120 about something as simple as what is the genre of 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:18.000 the program that you're watching. And so at Whirl we 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.680 have the ability because we're very content centric. We power 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.520 fast channels, we work with content, we spin up all 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:24.600 these channels globally. 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:26.640 We have the tools to be able. 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.520 To, for example, normalize genre metadata across streams so that 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.439 the buyer is able to count on gaining a consistent 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.600 information in order to buy across say news or you know, 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.240 or sports or drama or something like that. So that's 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:42.840 a big thing that we do, like we can help 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.840 improve and normalize metadata, and I think that speaks to 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.160 what I would say would be sort of our core 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.439 competency is that our supply and our ability to enhance 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:58.760 supply with sharper signals, whether that's brand safety, whether that's 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.280 brand discoveries, you know, emotional contextual targeting, which I'm sure 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.800 we'll talk about, which is super cool because that that's 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.360 really going to help, right is because if the signal 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.600 is unclear, then people can't buy what they want to buy. 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.040 And so you know, we're sort of in the supply 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:18.080 enhancement signal business in many ways on the ad side, 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.960 and I'm really excited about what we're able to add 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:22.600 to the to the situation there. 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.720 Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm curious, how has the kind 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.440 of the increases in supply in the streaming ad space recently, 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.600 you know, how is that impacting things? Obviously, Amazon Prime 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.640 Video launched advertising recently and there's been a lot of 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.400 chatter about how that's kind of flooded the market with 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.280 with supply. You know, what's been the impact of that 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.080 from from your perspective. 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:47.280 You know, just downward pressure own CPMs to put it simply, 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:49.920 you know, and you know, like I said, I come 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:51.640 from the TV business, so I'm not like I'm not 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.600 a legacy like display or web guy, but I know 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.240 enough about that space to know that in some ways 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.880 that has become a race to the bottom with endless 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:03.880 and depressions and smaller and smaller rates. God forbid, we 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.080 let that happen to CTV because it is the largest 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.360 scream in the household. These are non skippable units, you know, 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.120 the time spent on of people's eyeballs on the glass 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:16.199 when an AD plays is unbelievable compared to mobile and web. 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.320 Now we add on the layer of digital targeting. CPMs 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.959 should be you know, macroeconomic conditions notwithstanding, they should be 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.760 healthy and growing. And I think people say this at 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:29.880 every cocktail party. It can right, It's like, you know, 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.199 the downward pressure on CPMs is very concerning. 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:38.200 So just to clarify, CPMs are this this AD standard 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.920 that's cost per meal, that's the cost for delivering a 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:42.720 thousand views. 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:48.640 Yeah, to my earlier macro point, the audience is growing, so, 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.000 you know, and the demand has been you know, has 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.760 not followed. So then you throw on top of that, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:11:00.400 you know, increased supply, more viewership, more potential impression, but 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.440 a lot of money that's not already there, you know. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:05.960 I mean, so we're not really poised to take advantage 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:10.360 of the growing audience at the moment, which is obviously 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.440 another factor that's going to hurt us, you know on CPM. 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.880 So and then the sort of economic uncertainty around the 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:22.960 economy is an additional probably drag on the situation. 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.240 Yeah, as has that been you know, the focus of 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.360 a lot of conversations you've been having recently. The kind 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.880 of uncertainty in the economic climate right now. 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.480 I would say from what I'm hearing from our teams 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.280 is that, you know, people say it, but we're not 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.280 really seeing it turn up too much in the business yet. 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.880 And I think maybe what I just said is true 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:44.400 for everything. 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.440 The stock market, you know, unemployment, everything's just kind of 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.480 still the quote the same. What we all feel like, 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:55.080 there's these larger shifts happening that could turn south. So 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.640 you know Q four will be the big question mark, 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:02.000 right because that is such a big quarter for everybody, 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.720 you know, we have we don't have the political year 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.839 that we had last year, so you know, that'll probably 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.320 that'll be the ultimate verdict probably on twenty twenty five, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:12.480 is what happens in Q four. 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:13.640 Yeah. 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:18.000 Yeah, So let's shiftgures a little bit. You know, the 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.200 the rise of YouTube on connected TVs has been a 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.160 big topic of discussion recently. I mean really it's been 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.760 an ongoing thing for a long time, but the amount 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.520 of press attention on it has kind of multiplied more recently, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.000 you know, and I know you just did a presentation 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.600 on this recently at the stream TV show. So what 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.800 we're seeing is consumers spending more time with YouTube on 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.160 big screens. Basically, you know, what are some of the 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.160 key trends that have driven this this shift in consumption. 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.400 Yeah, well, I think, I mean, I can talk about 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.800 this subject for a while because it's so fascinating to 0:12:53.840 --> 0:13:00.839 me on many levels. I think people we'd all probably 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.080 agree that it's been a big surprise, and that you know, 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.400 when we think of YouTube as an app on CTV, 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.760 if we're going back five six years, you know, we 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:11.320 think of it as kind of a utility. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.840 It's not really an entertainment destination. You know, of course 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:14.360 it's there. 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.559 Because everyone's got to get an app everywhere, right, and 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.240 and no economic arrangements with the platform to participate at 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.240 that time. But maybe you don't think it's important if 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.400 you're Sam sunger Roku, right, because it's it's just the 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.560 second largest video search engine. You know, it's not an 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:35.800 entertainment destination, and just slowly but surely, you know, it 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.480 has just grown and grown and grown to where now 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.960 not only is it, you know, the number one essentially 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:47.400 platform on television even including like the Disney portfolio completely 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.520 and everybody else, but for itself, YouTube in the United 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.079 States TV is now the number one consumption platform in 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.200 terms of time spent, and so it's just kind of 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.400 this it's it's a sleeping giant. That's kind of I 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.199 think on the industry. And you're right, lots of attentions 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.679 being paid. But one of things I said in the 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.800 keynote was that I still don't think the industry fully 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:14.320 is grasping the trajectory YouTube is on and the implications. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:14.440 Of that trajectory. 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.439 I feel like people have watched it, you know, rise 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.160 to this level, but aren't necessarily thinking to themselves what 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.520 if this continues? You know, I mean I made the 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:25.800 point that you know, essentially one in four hours of 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.960 streaming today in the US is on YouTube, a sentence 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.000 that I still blows my mind. But it's likely to 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.280 be one in three by the end of next year. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:40.200 And so you know, and you know, the platforms don't 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.520 participate in the monetization. You know, it's it's taking time 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.800 away from the other ad supported players in the space, 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:52.000 and all the demos are watching. The fastest growing demo 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.880 is sixty five plus, you know, which might make you say, 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.200 as an advertiser, okay, well, you know, we know CBS 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.160 is number one, but they I have eighteen to forty nine's. 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.800 It's older people. But all the demos are growing. And 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.680 if you look at the youngest demo, I think I 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.120 equipped this in my keynote, the two to eleven's, they 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.640 over indexed at one hundred and fifty percent, right, And 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.200 so you have to ask yourself, if they over index 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.640 at that level today as an eight year old, why 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.560 would that change when they're fifteen, twenty one, twenty nine, right, 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.400 And so call that like a demographic tsunami that's going 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.640 to creep through the age groups over the next twenty 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:33.000 thirty years. You know, if you're not sitting down with 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.400 your partner to watch White Lotus season six right in 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:38.880 an X number of years, but you just want to 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.520 quote see what's on and that becomes YouTube period end 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:43.160 of sentence. 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.000 You know. That's uh, that's big news. It's scary a 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.120 little bit. I think I. 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.040 Went a little melodramatic on you there, but you know, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:55.760 you know, and in the presentation, of course, I talk 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.600 about the you know, the Albanian Army quote of Jeff Bucus. 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.200 You know, so dis missing Netflix and I think Netflix 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.160 has just astounded us. All it's just unbelievable what they've achieved. 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.480 It's literally mind boggling. You just got to tip your 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.120 cap to what they've done. They've changed the whole entertainment 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:18.320 landscape globally. I did have to laugh with Ted Sarandos's 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:22.200 recent comment about you know, YouTube is in the killing 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.240 time business and we're in the spending time business. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:32.720 I'm like, uh, yeah, yeah, you know, it's that certainly 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.640 does seem to be to be changing. I think, you know, 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:38.800 you mentioned YouTube has really built itself into this entertainment destination, 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.400 you know, and I've had conversations where, you know, it's 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.640 the creators there are really focused on, you know, driving 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.720 more engagement, driving more kind of recognition for what they're doing, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.040 the viewership they're delivering things like that. So it really 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.480 does seem to be again a transformative moment for how 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.600 the industry is approaching YouTube. You know, what are some 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:06.200 of the other implications you know, for major avon platforms, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.639 you know, other players in the CTV space. As YouTube 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.640 kind of steals more time on these big screen devices 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.159 that used to be the domain of these other platforms, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.040 you know, how do they continue to compete? 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:19.719 I think, you know, on the panel that you and 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.080 I did together. I made the comment about feeling like 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.240 things were plateauing a little bit in the kind of 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.560 the fast Davoud space, and we had some pushback on 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:28.959 the panel from some of the folks. 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.400 I think some one person agreed with me a little bit. 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.320 And I meant it in a combination of monetization and 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.639 audience growth, but also I think in the experience, and 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.320 I say that in this moment answer your question, because 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.159 the ux of these devices you know, and these platforms 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.440 and apps you know are relatively similar, right, the sort 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:54.800 of tile based carousel and then an EPG for channels, right. 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.480 And I think that YouTube success with short form content, 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:03.080 which constitutes about half of the viewership on CTV, certainly 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.840 points to what you'd call the question of what is 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.000 your short form strategy? 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:07.320 Right? 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.320 You're not going to really be able to go after 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:14.359 YouTube holistically that well, that's crazy. But within sports, within 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:19.160 say lifestyle, within certain categories, is there a more short 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:25.000 form feed like personal way to consume content, discover content, 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.920 find shows, movies that is more akin to the way 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.159 that people bounce around social platforms and YouTube itself. I 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.760 think there needs to be some experimentation there and so 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.720 you know, like lessons from YouTube's success, You're clearly high 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.800 profile creators from mister Beast on down are getting shots 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:49.920 at having a show on Samsung or Prime Video whatever, 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:54.280 And that's great. I think that makes sense for both sides. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.399 That won't really have an impact on the overall trend. 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:00.359 Those will just be the sort of the few that 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:04.280 could graduate quote unquote to having a legitimate quote unquote 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.840 show on these platforms. But the underlying overall trend of 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.560 how people are using YouTube and the role of that 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:17.159 short form, personalized kind of content experience, how can you 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.720 replicate that in some form that works for your platform, 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.520 I think is definitely a sort of thing to be 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:29.560 tackled and it could be very exciting, right for a platform. 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.480 Yeah, absolutely, I mean I completely agree. I think we're 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.320 long overdue for kind of a revolution in the streaming 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:36.600 UX space. 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.000 I mean love I love the twov scenes, you know, 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.160 product on their phone. I'm sure they're going to bring 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.920 it to CTV And that's a very smart idea, right. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.960 I'm just scrolling through great moments from films and I 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.800 find something to watch that way versus going through key art. 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.800 You know what, a much more interesting, fun way to 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.080 interact with my TV to find a movie to watch 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.040 than rolling through still images, you know. 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:08.240 Right right, Yeah, that's fascinating. I do want to touch 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.879 on fast briefly because I know you deal with you know, 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.160 fast channels and providers quite a bit. You know, we've 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.560 talked about that space is also maturing and kind of 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:23.639 plateauing a little bit. You know, how has the fast 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.880 sector specifically kind of been changing recently as it matures. 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.879 Yeah, I think yesterday I was actually in the office 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.600 physically in the office in New York City with a 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.600 major cable company that we work with that has you know, 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.680 double digit numbers of fast channels, And what they said, 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.760 which I have heard from others, other big clients of ours, 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:51.600 is that their focus now is on sort of refining 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:52.320 their approach. 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:53.480 They've got their. 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:57.000 Twenty channels, their thirty channels, some of them are crushing it, 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:58.960 some of them are lagging, some of them maybe need 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.240 a little refresh, and so their focus is on really 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:06.560 quality and you know, honing in on what's working, maybe 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:11.200 making some decisions about sunsetting certain concepts or ideas, trying 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:15.560 new things. So there was kind of a rush there, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.480 you know, five years ago, four years ago, a little 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.920 bit further back, WBD wasn't in the game, NBCU wasn't 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:25.119 in the game. They both both came to the market 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:28.800 with you know, literally dozens of channels. That's that wave 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:32.679 has happened, and so the platforms themselves are starting to 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.480 sort of look at, you know, winnowing the herd a bit, 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:38.600 cutting back a little bit, wanted to make sure they've 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.919 got the best channels the content providers themselves after rushing 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.639 in with so many channels. So I think you're seeing 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:50.440 a kind of refinement and you know, curation and kind 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.919 of you know, that kind of approach versus you know 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.520 five years ago when it was really kind of a 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:00.520 land grab for beachfront property. So that that's what that's 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:02.560