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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. My god, it's cart today

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Speaker 1: and what is the three year old name? L E Anthony?

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Speaker 1: We the jury find the defendant not guilty. She's tried

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Speaker 1: to experience some symbolance of freedom. Bother she's never left

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Speaker 1: alone if she if she goes out anywhere and all

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Speaker 1: people will bother her just like frequently they do me.

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Speaker 1: Right's right. The Constitution protects all of your individual freedoms.

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Speaker 1: But does that include going out and getting zonked with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of guys. Yes, Todd Mom has reared her

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Speaker 1: ugly head again. I'm talking about Todd Mom Casey Anthony.

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Speaker 1: Now to many people she may be attractive, even beautiful,

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Speaker 1: not to me, because I recalled the gruesome details of

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Speaker 1: her two year old little girl, Keiley's horrific death, her

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Speaker 1: body stored in the back of mommy's trunk. I Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this as crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: in the last forty eight hours. Taught mom Casey Anthony

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Speaker 1: spotted drinking it up, hoisting back. If you dressed festively

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Speaker 1: for Saint Patrick's Day and meeting a lot of new men,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to this. It's the face that broke

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Speaker 1: America's heart. Ten years ago, little Kayley Anthony was reported missing,

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Speaker 1: launching a saga that ended in one of the most

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Speaker 1: shocking verdicts ever. We the jury finally defendant not guilty,

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Speaker 1: so Casey Anthony was acquitted of her daughter's murder, but

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Speaker 1: she became a pariah, one of the nation's most despised women.

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Speaker 1: This is thirty two year old Casey Anthony today. She

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Speaker 1: still lives in South Florida. And look, she's got a

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Speaker 1: new tattoo just visible on her shoulder. It appears to

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Speaker 1: cover the infamous tattoo Bella Vita the Beautiful Life, that

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Speaker 1: she got while partying just two weeks after Kayley had

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Speaker 1: been reported missing with lawyer Cheney Mason, who was on

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Speaker 1: her defense team. It has been a decade since this case.

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Speaker 1: What has changed in that time for our Casey. She's

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Speaker 1: trying to experience some symbolance of freedom, but she's never

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Speaker 1: left alone. If she goes out anywhere and all people

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Speaker 1: will bother her, just like frequently they do me. Casey

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Speaker 1: opened a photography studio in twenty sixteen, but that business

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Speaker 1: has gone bust. She's now working as a researcher for

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Speaker 1: a private detective She's very much interested, of course, and

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Speaker 1: investigating criminal cases is what he does. She does computer

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Speaker 1: research and book research. Who thinks to help him? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's good at the computer. Remember when she looked up

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Speaker 1: how to make homemade chloroform and how to break a

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Speaker 1: net and home accidents. So she's really good at research.

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Speaker 1: And you're hearing our friends over at Inside Edition. That

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Speaker 1: was less Trent straight out to our panel. An all

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Speaker 1: star panel doctor Bethany Marshall renounced psychoanalyst out of La

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Speaker 1: Veteran for six expert Karen Smith, judge lawyer anchor at

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Speaker 1: Ashe Wilcott dot Com Ashu Willcott joining us right now.

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Robin Walinsky, author of

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Speaker 1: Beautiful Life, The CSI behind the Casey Anthony Trial. Robin Willinsky,

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Speaker 1: you were there every day along with me. And you

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Speaker 1: know when we're talking about the lawyer Cheney Mason who's

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Speaker 1: saying that he gets mobbed all the time when he

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Speaker 1: goes out, I highly doubt that. But isn't he the

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Speaker 1: one that shot a bird at the camera? He did?

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Speaker 1: I laugh when I hear his voice after the trial

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Speaker 1: and the not guilty verdict. He was in one of

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Speaker 1: the local bars Nancy in Orlando, and the window was opened,

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Speaker 1: the glass window, and he shot the bird to the

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Speaker 1: media and people that were looking in. You know, rude,

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Speaker 1: keeping classy, keep it glassy, Shaney Mason and then he

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Speaker 1: complains that people come up to him when you shoot

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Speaker 1: a bird right at the camera, What do you think

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Speaker 1: is going to happen? Um alongst and another question, do

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Speaker 1: you Robin Wilensky uh the correspondent and Inside edition les TRMP.

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Speaker 1: Nice guy. He says. She's now working as a researcher.

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Speaker 1: Researcher for a private detective. Would that private detective be

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Speaker 1: the detective on the ah Simpson double homicide trial? That's

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Speaker 1: that's what I hear. It is amazing to me Nancy

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Speaker 1: that she is back in full forest casey Anthony running around,

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Speaker 1: time to hit the bar, Saint Patty's Day. Well, you

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Speaker 1: know what, when I saw this video, people shot multiple

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Speaker 1: cell phone videos of her at O'Shea's. It's an Irish pub.

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Speaker 1: Everybody goes there West Palm Beach, very popular place. And

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Speaker 1: this is by you left out the hot pants I mean,

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, Yeah, you're the shrink helped me out, I

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Speaker 1: mean the last time I saw a pair of shorts

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Speaker 1: like that. It's from Lindsay Lohan was bending over to

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Speaker 1: climb into a private plane. I mean this, the hot pants,

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Speaker 1: the tank top, the white and green ensemble and Doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany tom Mom Casey Anthony started partying at a bar

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Speaker 1: for Saint Patrick's Day in West Palm, one of the

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Speaker 1: most elite and moneyed areas in the country. She was,

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Speaker 1: of course, acquitted in the murder of her own daughter.

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Speaker 1: She was living it up with a group of male

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Speaker 1: friends at the Irish pub. She drank into the wee

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Speaker 1: hours of Sunday morning. So you know, Anthy, help me out,

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, Some patterns never change. It reminded me of

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Speaker 1: right after her daughter went missing. Remember she was dancing

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Speaker 1: on a stripper pole. She was throwing back shot. She

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Speaker 1: was shopping at Target for lingerie. She was dating a

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Speaker 1: bunch of guys, one in particular, which is why we

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Speaker 1: think she Wait a minute, white a minute, when you

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Speaker 1: say shopping, Hold on, Ashley Walcott, Let's comment on what

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Speaker 1: Bethany just said, Doctor Bethany Marshall, shopping is one thing

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Speaker 1: to me and you, okay, But to Todd Mom, flying

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Speaker 1: through Target getting pushed up bras and beers. Remember she

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Speaker 1: was using forging her one of her best friends checks.

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Speaker 1: So that's a whole other dimension of shopping, Ashley Willcott. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's theft. It's a crime, and it just adds

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Speaker 1: to everything else that you read about what this mother's doing.

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Speaker 1: She's only thirty three. But don't you know, hey, you've

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Speaker 1: lost a child. You probably murdered your child. I think

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Speaker 1: you need to grow up and take responsibility. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, you jumped a gun. She's thirty three. Tomorrow, okay,

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Speaker 1: you got you got about twelve fifteen hours to go

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Speaker 1: on that one. You know what, though, Doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: I agree with Ashley, and I don't begrudge anyone. You know,

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Speaker 1: your work all day you want. I like to come

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Speaker 1: home and be with the children and sit around the

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Speaker 1: table and talk about their day. Who did what at school?

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Speaker 1: But I don't begrudge anybody who drinks. Go for it,

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Speaker 1: go have a good time. Don't drive for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 1: but sat Patty's day everything in this case, she should

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Speaker 1: just go away. Why can't she go away? Or she

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Speaker 1: wants to be visible, go do something for children, do

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Speaker 1: something for a charity. Trying to make some sense out

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Speaker 1: of your life. Guys, hold on just one moment. I've

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Speaker 1: got to tell you about something. Imagine a case like this,

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Speaker 1: a double murder trial, a high profile media circus, a

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Speaker 1: famous celebrity accused of the crime, and then a not

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Speaker 1: guilty verdict. Now imagine eight years later, what happens when

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Speaker 1: there's a brand new murder with the same celebrity suspect

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Speaker 1: and a second chance to get justice. Did he do

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Speaker 1: it again? And this time? Can she prove it? From

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Speaker 1: the mind of executive producer Marsha Clark comes in you

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Speaker 1: murder mystery, only she could tell it's about what goes

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Speaker 1: on outside the court and beyond the TV cameras, about

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Speaker 1: the battle fought in the public. I am what really

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Speaker 1: goes on behind the scenes, and no one knows that

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Speaker 1: better than Marsha Clark. By the end of the ten episodes,

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Speaker 1: you'll know the truth, but they'll keep you guessing till

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Speaker 1: the very last minute. The Fix a ten episode event tonight,

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Speaker 1: ABC ten nine Central. Her last interview was with Associated

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Speaker 1: Press reporter Jos Ropogo last year, and she was defiant.

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Speaker 1: Can't give when anybody thinks about me. I don't care

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Speaker 1: about that. I never will. I'm okay with myself. I

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Speaker 1: sleep pretty good at night. She put on a show.

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Speaker 1: She cried. She held her daughter's picture, said this is

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Speaker 1: my daughter, who I love so much, and I felt

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Speaker 1: like she was telling me what I wanted to hear.

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Speaker 1: Casey's mother, Cindy Anthony, told Inside Edition that she used

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Speaker 1: to keep Little Kayley's room the way it was when

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Speaker 1: she disappeared. Teddy is holding Kayley's spot at the picnic table.

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Speaker 1: Mister pig always joins us. Today, Casey has no contact

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Speaker 1: with her parents. Her daughter would be thirteen years old

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Speaker 1: if she was alive. Casey Anthony was asked what little

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Speaker 1: Kayley would be like today. I would like to think

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Speaker 1: she'd be listening to classic rock and playing sports and

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Speaker 1: not taking from anybody. Okay, you were hearing from our feelalist,

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Speaker 1: trended Inside Edition. In the last hour's time, I'm Casey

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Speaker 1: Anthony not coming out to help with a children's hospital

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Speaker 1: or a fundraising event for child victims. No, she's at

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Speaker 1: a bar getting drunk, just like she did when her

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Speaker 1: daughter was quote missing. During that month plus when Little

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Speaker 1: Kelly was apparently being driven around in the back of

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Speaker 1: her trunk of her car or a throne into a

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Speaker 1: wooded area just about ten houses down from the Anthony home,

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Speaker 1: drunk as a skunk at hot body contest, climbing a

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Speaker 1: stripper pole and a mini dress and go go boots.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just like history repeating itself all over again.

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Speaker 1: What about turning your life around, doing something different, thinking

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Speaker 1: about somebody other than just yourself. Now, Jackie Howard here

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Speaker 1: in the studio is telling me there are reports top

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Speaker 1: moun Casey Anthony reached out to her father, who was

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Speaker 1: just a horrible, horrible car crash man. Cindy and George

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Speaker 1: Anthony have really been through the mill. I mean, what

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Speaker 1: a horrible chapter in their lives, losing the thing they

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Speaker 1: loved the most, Kelly, who they were paying for, they

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Speaker 1: were raising, they were supporting, feeding, putting to bed at night,

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Speaker 1: while their daughters sat on the sofa eating chips, pretending

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Speaker 1: she had a job, faking them out, even with a

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Speaker 1: fake ID to work at Universal the works, a fake nanny,

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Speaker 1: everything fake, And I guess the beat goes on in

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Speaker 1: the last hours. Top mount Casey Anthony out pounding back

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Speaker 1: booze straight out to Karen Smith, forensics expert, A lot

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Speaker 1: of doubt was cast on, not in my mind, but

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Speaker 1: in some people's mind enough to confuse the jury on

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Speaker 1: what was in the trunk belonging to Casey Anthony. Remember

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Speaker 1: when her mother, who ended up trying to defend her

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Speaker 1: at trial, said, it smells like a damn body back there.

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Speaker 1: It just sounds like a damn dead body back there,

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Speaker 1: because there was a dead body back there, and everyone

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Speaker 1: smelled it, and there's nothing can Once you smell a

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Speaker 1: decomposing human body and you never forget it, you know

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Speaker 1: immediately something is wrong. Forensics air tests showed that there

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Speaker 1: was d comp human d coomp in the back of

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Speaker 1: the car. Why is it that that the jury couldn't

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Speaker 1: understand that what happened? Karen, Well, you know this, You're right,

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Speaker 1: and once you've smelled a decomposed body, you never forget it.

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Speaker 1: It is so distinct and so awful that it is

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Speaker 1: in your brain cavity for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 1: That testimony was by doctor our Pad Vass, and I

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Speaker 1: worked with doctor Vass at the University of Tennessee. I

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Speaker 1: had the privilege of getting to know him and seeing

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Speaker 1: some of his research he's a fantastically intelligent man. I

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Speaker 1: think what happened was his techniques were so novel um.

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Speaker 1: He basically took air samples from the trunk and he

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Speaker 1: ran them through a very complicated chemical process, and he

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Speaker 1: said it came back with this chromatogram that showed human remains,

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Speaker 1: which is very distinct in his research. I think the

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Speaker 1: problem is it was so novel. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it passed Daubear, which is or Daubert, which is a

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Speaker 1: scientific community being. But the judge let it in. If

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Speaker 1: it didn't pass, there you go, and what she's talking about.

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Speaker 1: She's gone into warp speed like on Star Trek. For instance,

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Speaker 1: when the first fingerprint was introduced in court, everybody's like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you can't prove that was from And it took testing

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Speaker 1: and it meant a standard she's referring to. The Daubert

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Speaker 1: test in court is sometimes called a fry test, which

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Speaker 1: means that it's accepted within scientific community, just like a fingerprint,

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Speaker 1: just like a voice analysis, just like DNA, it takes

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Speaker 1: testing to determine if it is competent and reliable to

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Speaker 1: put in front of a jury. Into this day, lie

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Speaker 1: detectors are not deemed sufficient unless both parties stipulate agree

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Speaker 1: ahead of time before it's taken that it will come

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Speaker 1: into evidence. Those are still not allowed in criminal cases

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Speaker 1: and civil yes, and criminal no. And that's why, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I want to talk about George and Cindy Anthony,

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Speaker 1: but we're talking about Cindy discovering that Kelly is missing.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this my daughter's cards to day

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Speaker 1: and it's not. What is the three year old name?

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Speaker 1: Ay l E E. Anthony Haley Anthony. Yes, okay, she

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Speaker 1: wiped her hystanic? He is white. How long has she

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Speaker 1: been missing for? I had not seen miss since the

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Speaker 1: seventh of two? What is her date of birth? Um

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Speaker 1: three eight nine, two thousand three, two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: So it's true, listen, true sen her a month ago.

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Speaker 1: She's missing. Okay, I just don't I need I understand.

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Speaker 1: I can you just can you come down for me

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Speaker 1: for this a minute. I don't even know what's going on. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and you know later, Cindy, trying to

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Speaker 1: protect her daughter, said, well, maybe it was just an

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Speaker 1: old pizza. That's not what she told. Line one one,

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Speaker 1: And I gotta tell you something Robin wi Wentz. You

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Speaker 1: were in the court every single day, Georgia sent the

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Speaker 1: Anthony had been portrayed so badly in the media, And

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Speaker 1: when I look back on what they went through the

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Speaker 1: times I met them, they were really seemingly fine people,

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Speaker 1: fine people, you know, just trying to make a living

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Speaker 1: with ups and downs in their lives, just like everybody else.

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Speaker 1: And the world caught them in a horrible time with

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Speaker 1: their granddaughter that they felt was like their daughter. Where

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Speaker 1: it was raising her, Tom, I wasn't raising her, missing

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Speaker 1: their daughter under suspicion their only daughter. Media camped out

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Speaker 1: in there all over. You couldn't even walk out the

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Speaker 1: door without them being there. They'd come out and yell

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Speaker 1: at the media. Do you blame them? And that's how

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Speaker 1: they were portrayed, Robin, I feel so bad for them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, Nancy. We were actually inside that courtroom,

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Speaker 1: and I remember I was in C one in the

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Speaker 1: corner and they were sitting behind me on the other side.

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Speaker 1: And I remember during when that piece of audio was

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Speaker 1: played and Cindy was on the stand. If you'll remember,

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Speaker 1: you only saw the top of her head. She almost

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Speaker 1: collapsed in her seat. She was so distraught. I also

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Speaker 1: would get to court early every morning, and one morning

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Speaker 1: I heard a woman crying in that bath if you remember,

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Speaker 1: there's a bathroom up there, right outside that courtroom. And

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Speaker 1: I was in the bathroom alone with Cindy Anthony, probably

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Speaker 1: a half hour to forty five minutes before the court started,

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Speaker 1: and she was hysterical crying in there, thinking, Wow, my

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Speaker 1: granddaughter is gone and now my daughter is facing the

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Speaker 1: death penalty, and you know that that's what was going

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Speaker 1: through her mind. But there was Nancy. We can't do

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Speaker 1: this story and not talk about the level of enabling

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Speaker 1: that went on, because let me tell you, your daughter

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have a fake ID for two years and say

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Speaker 1: she had a job at Disney and then really she's

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Speaker 1: just out partying. And in my mind, the bottom line

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Speaker 1: is the reason that Kayley is dead today and not

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Speaker 1: going to turn fourteen years old in August. It's very simple,

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Speaker 1: Casey wants the party. Well, I can do a program

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Speaker 1: without talking and put it about the parents, George and Cindy,

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Speaker 1: because this is not their fault. This is top Mom's fault.

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Speaker 1: And anything that they, as you say, enabled, they did

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Speaker 1: out of blind love for Top Mom and you know

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Speaker 1: that the saying is love is blind, and I believe

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Speaker 1: it was in their case. And even at the end,

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Speaker 1: Cindy Anthony was up there saying she was the one

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Speaker 1: doing those searches to how to make homemade chloroform, and

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Speaker 1: that she meant to put chlorophyll, you know, which is

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Speaker 1: a part of photosynthesis with plants turn green and grow.

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Speaker 1: She wasn't even home at the time. She couldn't have

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Speaker 1: done it on that home computer. But that that's a

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Speaker 1: whole other can of worms. When I think about what

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Speaker 1: they've been through and that she wants to party, that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what happened, Doctor Bethany Marshall, What is it? What

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Speaker 1: is it so irritating, Doctor Bethany? Here the shrink that

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Speaker 1: Anthony's always looking for a party, asking for people to

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Speaker 1: come take shots with her living in it. Why is

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Speaker 1: it so irritating to so many people? Well, Nancy, this

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Speaker 1: is what led to the legend murder in the first place.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to get her daughter out of the way

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Speaker 1: so she could lead an idealized life. So this is

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Speaker 1: a part of the offending pattern. It's not just that

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Speaker 1: ten years later now she's regrouped and she's having a

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Speaker 1: good time. She did this from the very beginning. And

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Speaker 1: I want to go back for a second about Cindy enabling.

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Speaker 1: A very important part of this story, Nancy, is that

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Speaker 1: todd mom was not taking care of her little girl.

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Speaker 1: So Cindy went to psychotherapy. She sought help with a

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Speaker 1: mental health specialist, and that person encouraged her to force

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Speaker 1: Casey to take responsibility for Kaylee. Do you remember that,

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Speaker 1: because Kathy, as you kept saying, was lying on the

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Speaker 1: sofy eating chips, out dancing out on a strip or pole,

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Speaker 1: out dating, and Cindy was taking care of her granddaughter

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Speaker 1: sin all the primary parenting was falling on her shoulders.

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Speaker 1: And it was when Cindy forced her daughter to take

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Speaker 1: up her parenting responsibilities that the little girl disappeared. So actually,

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Speaker 1: it's when the pattern of codependency broke that the comm

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Speaker 1: side took place. And I think that's why Cindy's so heartbroken,

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Speaker 1: is that in some ways she might feel responsible. Can

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Speaker 1: you imagine what a mess to have your own daughter. Well, actually,

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Speaker 1: so many grandparents in our country are in this situation

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Speaker 1: right now where they're taking care of their grandchildren because

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Speaker 1: they have adult children who are not parenting appropriately. And

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Speaker 1: Cindy is just what one more of these large group

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Speaker 1: of people that we have that was just struggling to

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Speaker 1: find her way in a very messy situation. Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace help me the police. I heard this

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Speaker 1: feeling that something was wrong. Police swarmed this building after

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Speaker 1: a mother's intuition told her something was not right with

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Speaker 1: her daughter. I would ask my Polly police to come

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Speaker 1: over to my daughter's apartment. Nothing on the phone prepared

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Speaker 1: us for what we were walking into. And I asked

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Speaker 1: them where is my daughter? And they didn't answer. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to talk about it without kind of gagging. The

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Speaker 1: blood evidence in this case told me that this was

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Speaker 1: a prolonged and brutal crime. The deeper you dig, the

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Speaker 1: more mysterious it becomes. This case reads like a movie script.

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Speaker 1: It's just more like a horror movie. Did a rich

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Speaker 1: kid with a silver spoon stuck in his mouth since

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Speaker 1: day one murder his fiance and actually drain her blood? Now,

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Speaker 1: from what we know, he Blake label is a so

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Speaker 1: called graphic novelist. What exactly does that mean? I recall

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Speaker 1: the other day the twins had a book report and

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Speaker 1: they could pick different genres, the genre they were told

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Speaker 1: to use this graphic novel. Like, okay, so we got

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Speaker 1: a graphic novel. It's like a book full of cartoons.

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Speaker 1: They're not always funny. It can be a dramatic story.

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Speaker 1: It can it even be a sci fi or a

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Speaker 1: horror story. So that's what graphic novel means to my

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Speaker 1: understanding graphic novelist. Basically, you know, comics of sorts, at

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Speaker 1: least that's what it looks like. Forget that, how did

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Speaker 1: this woman end up with all the blood drained from

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Speaker 1: her body? Because in the last hours, a multi million

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Speaker 1: dollar lawsuit hits the headlines. Joining me Joseph Scott, Morgan,

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Speaker 1: forensics expert doctor Brian Russell, host of id's hit series

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Speaker 1: Fatal Vows, Ashe Wilcott, judge lawyer at Ashe Wilcott dot Com,

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Speaker 1: Lee Egan Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Lee tell

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Speaker 1: me about the crime itself, then I'll get to the money. Well,

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Speaker 1: answer the crime itself. Pez was one of the most

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Speaker 1: brutal crimes basically in history. This man, Blake Glaubelle, took

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Speaker 1: his wife I'm sorry not his wife is fiance, Ayanna,

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Speaker 1: into his apartment in Los Angeles. He hit her over

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Speaker 1: the head. He scalped her. Police still her scalping. Okay, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait wait did you say scalp sea lp? Did you

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Speaker 1: say that scalped? Yes, scalped her. Joseph Scott Morgan, we

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Speaker 1: need a forensics expert right now. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State

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Speaker 1: University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet, Joe Scott

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Speaker 1: explain what we mean by a modern day scalping. That

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Speaker 1: means that her scalp was removed all the way down

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Speaker 1: to the bone of her skull, or what we commonly

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Speaker 1: refer to as the external table of her skull, and

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Speaker 1: there are some patches of tissue still left on the

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Speaker 1: backside of her head. But make no mistake, Nancy, this woman,

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Speaker 1: this woman had her had her scalp completely removed from

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Speaker 1: her head while while she was still alive. And I'll

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Speaker 1: throw in one bonus little ditty right here as well.

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Speaker 1: She had been bitten multiple times as well about the

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Speaker 1: face and cheeks. Never one to disappoint Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: thank you for the additional tidbit of the biting on

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Speaker 1: the face. In fact, when she was scalped. You're quite welcome.

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Speaker 1: Even her ears were cut off. Scott, Yeah, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of cases. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: don't know in my memory if I recall anything like this,

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Speaker 1: you would think that it would stand out, and I

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Speaker 1: just don't. And it was not a quick death. She

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Speaker 1: there was some awareness I would imagine on her part

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Speaker 1: her blood. Are you so sure that she was alive

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Speaker 1: when she was scouted? Oh, I'll tell you why, because

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Speaker 1: there's evidence of hemorrhage throughout these injuries. You do not

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Speaker 1: get hemorrhage, Nancy. You do not get hemorrhage unless your

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Speaker 1: blood is still coursing through your body. That means that

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Speaker 1: she has contused or kind of bruised areas on her body.

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Speaker 1: So there was at least some level of awareness throughout

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Speaker 1: this whole horrible, horrible circumstance that she was dying. You know,

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Speaker 1: you made me want to just run to the alarm

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00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: on the studio and lot Jackie and myself in here

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00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: right now, just hearing you talk. Because this guy is

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Speaker 1: not insane, Blake Libel, spoiled Bratt is not insane, but

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Speaker 1: yet we believe he did this thing. Now, when you

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Speaker 1: say hemorrhage, you know what, Joe Scott, I don't know

395
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Speaker 1: why you throw out scientific medical terms like that. You

396
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: mean bleeding like a bruise is called a hematoma, all right,

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00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: it's a bruise. Hemorrhage means you're bleeding. If you're dead.

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Speaker 1: You don't bleed anymore. If you cut a dead body,

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00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: blood doesn't ooze out because blood is not pumping. You're

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Speaker 1: saying in common terms. I think, Joe Scott, that she bled,

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00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: which means she was alive. Yeah, yeah, that You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: And I think another kind of ghastly level to this.

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Speaker 1: In my study of this thing, I believe because she

404
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: was the doctors refer to this as an extinguination. An

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00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: exanguination means that you lose the totality of your blood.

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Speaker 1: Keep in mind, wait, wait, wait, I just talked to

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Speaker 1: you about fancy medical terms and then you say whatever

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Speaker 1: you just said, You're gonna have to spell it. Everybody,

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Speaker 1: let's write this down. Go aheads bell, please you want

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Speaker 1: me to spell? Yes? Yes, my god, man, you're putting

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Speaker 1: me on the stage. Okay, First of all, don't drag

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Speaker 1: God into it. We do not owe MG on crime stories. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he's already mad at me for undisclosed reasons. Let's not

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Speaker 1: make it worse. X. What did you call it exanguination?

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Speaker 1: Exanguination is right, that's when all the blood runs out

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Speaker 1: of you, is gone from your body. Yes, it does.

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Speaker 1: And if you if folks at home will also think

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Speaker 1: about nobody at home needs to know why to how

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Speaker 1: to exanguinate someone. But that's a whole other cannon. You

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Speaker 1: know what, Let me get back to something I can

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Speaker 1: understand and not ask for spellings that even you can't

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Speaker 1: just rattle off up ash you, Wilcott, you see cases

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Speaker 1: day in day out, day in day out. Do you

424
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: believe that there had ever been any telltale sign, a

425
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,719
Speaker 1: hint that Blake Libel was capable of this type of violence? No, listen,

426
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's been a hint that he's

427
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: capable of that type of violence or not. But there

428
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: were definitely red flags if you look back and you

429
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: know hindsights twenty twenty. Let's talk about those red flags, Nancy.

430
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: It's these things. Number one, he left his wife who

431
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: had just had a second child, baby, who left her.

432
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: Then he had a girlfriend, and he also was in

433
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: love with this person who's now been murdered, So there's

434
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: a lot of red flags they're rolling the way. Just

435
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: because somebody's really wealthy does not make them a good person.

436
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: What about it, Doctor Brian Russell, you're a psychologist, host

437
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: of id's Fatal Vowel series. Do you believe that there

438
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: were alarms, red flags, warnings. Well, yes, to the extent

439
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: that at the core of every associopath and psychopath is

440
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: the personality trait of narcissism, and from narcissism springs entitlement.

441
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: Because somebody says narcissistic, they feel entitled to do and

442
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: take what they want to and from other people, regardless

443
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: of the negative impact that it has on those other people.

444
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: The interesting thing about this is I think it illustrates

445
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: the line between what is a sociopath and what is

446
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: a psychopath. A sociopath is somebody who hurts other people

447
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: for some secondary reason. So for example, someone will kill

448
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: their spouse to collect insurance money, or they'll kill their

449
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: spouse to get the spouse out of the way so

450
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: they can go on and have a new life with

451
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: somebody else, Like Chris Watts. A psychopath does it, and

452
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: that is the reason, the feeling, the fun whatever they

453
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: get out of the act of doing it is the rewards.

454
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: We call it primary gain as opposed to secondary gain.

455
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: And this guy, I don't know what in the world

456
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: was going on in the relationship, if there was anything

457
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: that he whipped up in his mind as a justification

458
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: to do this, but clearly he didn't just want to

459
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: just kill this woman. He wanted to make this woman

460
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: suffer and he enjoyed it. And that is a psychopath.

461
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: That's a bt K, as an example from my home

462
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: state of Kansas, a bt K like psychopath. In an

463
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: interview from Comic Con in New York in two thousand

464
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: and eight, Libel talking about comic books that he authored.

465
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: The storyline is about when a new planet enters our

466
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: solar system, the Earth few knights and we put down

467
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: our weapons and we find a new enemy that's about

468
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: twelve to eighteen feet and they ride and control dinosaurs

469
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: like dogs. He gave one of the books he wrote

470
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: to Michael Yeerman, who lives next door to Libel's multimillion

471
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: dollar Hollywood home. He say to me, he gave me

472
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: a book, and he said, he's a right, that's it.

473
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: And this is all my introduction. Rich kill other neighbors

474
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: say he didn't live there long though there was always

475
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: activity at the house, which is now silent, just a

476
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: lot of people in and a um, a lot of

477
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: girls and music. You are hearing from our friends at

478
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: k ABC TV. That was Chelsea Edwards giving details on

479
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: Blake Whitebell's career. Is a comic book author. It's called

480
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: graphic novelists, and you hear him speaking on a YouTube

481
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: video at Comic Con. All that aside, his girlfriend has

482
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: found dead scalp and her blood drained. To you, Joe

483
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, just for your knowledge, if you've got a

484
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: pen e X S A N g U I N

485
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: A T I O N exanguination, hang okay, always learn

486
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: something new and that's when you bleed out a living

487
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: creature um, which is what happened here. Big question though,

488
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: were their warning signs? Were their red flags? What about it?

489
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, guy, you mentioned it. He's a graphic novelist.

490
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: One of the things that investigators looked at is that

491
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: he had created a graphic novel, one of these comic

492
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: books that actually portrayed a death contained within the storyline

493
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: that kind of mirrored what went on with this poor

494
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: woman during this protracted period of time when she was

495
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: bleeding to death inside of this apartment. Yeah, bleeding to death.

496
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: That's a euphemism that book. I believe Jackie Howard is

497
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: waving her hand Wiley as syndrome. I'm not even going

498
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: to ask have you read it, because you're scaring me

499
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: right now talking about bleeding to death, Joe Scott Morgan,

500
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: doctor Brian Russell ask you will cut league and actually

501
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: throughout the apartment, police found blood. They found pieces of

502
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: flesh from Caseyan's mutilated body in the bed behind the

503
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: mattress on the floor. One of the bed sheets had

504
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: handprints that matched Libel's hand exactly. Let me think, oh,

505
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: they knew that because part of it is missing the

506
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: print because he was wearing a right pinky ring. In

507
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: the basement, eleven discarded trash bags containing bloody sheets, clothes,

508
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: body parch, chunks of hair, and scalp. Inside the apartment,

509
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: they found the victim just absolutely beautiful person, a model,

510
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: as I recall his fiancee, Iana Casium. They find her

511
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: body lying there, and next to her body, which had

512
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: been cleaned, cops find a knife and a bloody razor

513
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: blade that was used. Cops believe during the scalping and

514
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: the exanguination. Lee Egan, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter,

515
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: speaking of red flags clues other than a whole book

516
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: syndrome that details this plotline. What do we know about

517
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: this most recent develop a multimillion dollar lawsuit? Well, what

518
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: we know is he didn't show up for the lawsuits.

519
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: His attorney quit. He had no attorney there, no family

520
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: members there. So a Los Angeles Superior Court judge of

521
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: course gave you know, granted the lawsuit to the planiffs,

522
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: which was the fiance's mother, and she was awarded forty

523
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: one point six million dollars in this wrongful death lawsuit. Well,

524
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: Blake Libella is a millionaire property air right, I mean

525
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't he have millions of dollars? Lee Egan, He

526
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: his family does. That doesn't necessarily mean he does. I

527
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: know that his family is the one that was sending

528
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: him money to live the lifestyle that he did in California.

529
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: I believe it's somewhere in the millions. His mother was

530
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: sending him after he moved to Los Angeles, So within

531
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: a year or so, she had already sent him over

532
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: a million dollars to live on so it's not that

533
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: he's wealthy. His family's wealthy. So we're unsure if he

534
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: has the money to pay this or not, if he's

535
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: actually good for it. You know, officers following broke into

536
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: Lybelle's apartment. They were hesitant at first because he's so

537
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: rich and to a degree famous there in Hollywood looking

538
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: for Casey, and she was found naked, mutilated, drained of blood,

539
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: and covered with a red Mickey Mouse blanket. But you

540
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: know what, take a listen to what we learned in

541
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,959
Speaker 1: the autopsy report. At least discovered the body of thirty

542
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: year old Iana cassia An inside her West Hollywood condo

543
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: in May of last year. Investigators say the model and

544
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: mother of a two month baby was discovered dead in

545
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: her bed. That just released autopsy report reveals graphic details

546
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: of her death. The report says Cassian's scalp was missing,

547
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: her skull fully exposed. The scalp has never been found.

548
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: The report says the scalp appears to have been cut

549
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: at the back of the head, but in other places

550
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: it was jagged and appeared to have been torn away.

551
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: It also says portions of the right side of her

552
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: face were torn away, including her right ear. Also indicated

553
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: an injury to her jaw, which the report says appears

554
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: to be a human bite. Mark Well, I'm wondering if

555
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: all of that is even worth forty six million dollars,

556
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: because I don't think any amount of money is worth

557
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 1: that Lee Egan didn't casey and have a child. If

558
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: she did, they had a baby that was just born

559
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: a few weeks or so before she was killed, and

560
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: her mother, Olga, fortunately was babysitting they when the mother

561
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: was killed had recently given birth I think about two months.

562
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: According to the La County Sheriff's Department, they had never

563
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: seen a more heinous crime than this one Lee Egan.

564
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: Is there any way this rich brat can pay up

565
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: the forty six mil to the family. Probably not Probably,

566
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: I mean it it was his family that had the money,

567
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: and he supposedly was a party boy in California and

568
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, just blew through the money his family sent him.

569
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: So unless he's got something hidden, I just don't see

570
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: how well talk about red flags. I mean, is this

571
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 1: anymore of a blueprint for murder? Listen to our friend

572
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: at k our friend at KABCTV. Mark Brown suspect in

573
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: this grizzly murder case is thirty seven year old Blake Leebel,

574
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: the father of Ianna Cassian's child. Leebel is the author

575
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: of a series of comic books he presented at Comic

576
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: Con in New York in two thousand and eight. He

577
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: is also the writer of the graphic novel Syndrome. The

578
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: book's plot follows a rogue doctor's quest to isolate the

579
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 1: root of evil in the brain and fix it. Leebel

580
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: is the son of Lauren Lebeal, a wealthy Canadian realistic

581
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: developer credited with building more than thirty thousand homes in

582
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: the Toronto area. Blake Leewell is also reported to have

583
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: inherited millions of dollars from his late mother's estate. Well,

584
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: if he inherited millions, he's got the money, Well not

585
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: for much longer. Take a listen to what kabctv's Jewelry

586
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 1: Ran learns from neighbors. When I went inside, I didn't

587
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: see anybody, but I heard someone screaming, like going crazy.

588
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: But I didn't see anybody inside though, like screaming like

589
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: they were afraid of something like bloody murder, like something

590
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: terrible is going on now that one was actually a

591
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: dog walker who came in earlier today. The screams she

592
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: heard was the victim's mother who came upon the scene,

593
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: the one who had reported her daughter missing earlier. Today.

594
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: She found out what had happened, and she could be

595
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: heard all throughout this building. The couple also had an

596
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: infant child who we thought may have been in the

597
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: apartment at the time. The Sheriff's department has not confirmed

598
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: whether the baby was there, but they have confirmed that

599
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: it is safe and is now in the custody of family.

600
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: We wait as just just unfolds, but I know this,

601
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: no amount of money can ever make up for this

602
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: family losing their daughter and this child losing her mom.

603
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye, Fred