WEBVTT - Daredevil (2015) Season 2 and 3 Rewatch 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.320 Hey, read today's episodes, can days spoilers for Daredevil seasons 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:08.039 two and three plus the directors, because you actually need 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:08.560 to know. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:27.200 That information, all right? Red? 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.160 Hello, Am is Jason Excepcion. 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:31.400 A rosy night? 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.199 Yeah, and we'll come on X ray Vision the podcast 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.760 when we dive Dee video verite, movies, comics and pop culture. 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:43.559 Color you from iHeart Podcast where we're bringing you three 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.440 episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, plus news 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:47.080 on the weekends. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:53.040 Well, in today's episode, we are nothing if not completionists here, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.120 So we have not only watched That Devil season one 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:57.960 and recapped it, which you can listen to now on 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.720 a previous episode, but we are also recapped Being Dead 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:05.240 over seasons two and three with a small intermission to 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.200 cover the defenders, because believe it or not, you need it, 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.280 you need it, you do need it, or otherwise you're 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:11.560 gonna be asking questions. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:13.240 So what happened? 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.520 Right like we're gonna be asking in this episode important questions. 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.959 Is Matt a good lawyer or simply a great monologuer? 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.119 How many men can speak in groud whispers? And keep 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:28.120 our attention? Why does Karen Page do anything that she does, 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.560 and what portion of the Born Again comic book that 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:33.800 we covered in our book club does the Disney Plus 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.920 series named after it actually have left to tell. Let's 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:45.840 get into it, Okay. Daredevil season two headline, who's killing everybody? 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.800 The Punisher, he's in town and who's murdering and the 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:50.720 Punisher is. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:55.440 Laying absolute fucking waste to various organized crime groups in 0:01:55.560 --> 0:02:01.880 the city, Bikers, mafia, everybody is just get blown away. 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.360 You get a crazy shot at one point. You have 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:07.600 a crazy shot at one point where the camera like 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:11.880 peers through the blown out bullet wound in a guy 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.799 as like an FBI agent is looking into the bullet hole. 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:21.239 It's and it's nuts. Matt of course, is like, this 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.840 is a problem. I've got to figure out what is 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:26.960 going on. And initially everybody else like. 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:28.840 This guy, like why doesn't he want. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.959 To go to cool? And initially everybody is thinking this 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.440 must be like a gang, like a Seal Team six 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.160 gang or something. No, it's one guy. This comes to 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.720 a head in the middle of the season where Matt 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:47.000 and this guy, the Frank Castle, the Punisher, and they 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.800 have this big conversation on a rooftop that is uh, 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:55.840 basically the philosophical arc of this season, like what is 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:59.320 a vigilante? Is it better to do it Matt's way 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.239 where you're just using your fists? Is it better to 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:02.359 do it Frank's way? 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:04.679 Where is there even really a difference? 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.360 Is there a difference between the two? And this all 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:13.359 comes to a head with a wonderful nod from the 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.639 comic books where Frank has Matt tied up and in chains. 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.160 He wakes up, and you know, Matt wakes up on 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.600 the rooftop. He's like, why didn't you take off my mask? 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:24.280 Frank's like, I don't care who you are. And then 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.120 they have this long philosophical debate about which path is 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.359 better and is there even a difference between the two? 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:32.919 Come on, Red, what are you just gonna act like 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.960 you're a kid at the playground beating criddles up with 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.640 your fists. I'm putting them away for good. And then 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.560 finally Frank gives Matt a choice. He's like, here's okay, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:47.320 here's what's gonna happen. I'm gonna kill this guy unless 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.480 you here's a gun, unless you shoot me crazy because 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.680 Matt refuses to do it, but Frank shoots the guy anyway, 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.080 Matt's not able to save the guy. Debate debate over, 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.080 we get some of the Frank Backstore, in which we 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.480 discover that, uh, just like in the comics, his family 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:09.320 was murdered in a botched gangland assassination and now Frank 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.400 Castle is making sure that criminals pay the price. 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.240 I just want to say something, right, so, Matt Murdoch, 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.520 sweet Catholic boy, Matt Murdock. Right, but look, we have 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:23.080 seen this man definitely kill people before. Like he's breaking 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.560 people's necks. He's given me they're getting severe head trauma 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:26.920 like that. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.760 Yeah, they'resspills who will like never speak to that family 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:31.760 a gang because they're. 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.240 On like a fucking iron lung. I feel like it's 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.000 that actually ironically makes this a way more interesting season 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.640 for me. But even though the show isn't fully ready 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.560 to grapple with it, if you've actually the seasons, it's 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:49.680 the Batman thing, Like it's the book does it mean 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.839 to kill someone? The truth is, if you've I wrote 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.159 a two hundred I think it was twenty five hundred 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.880 worth piece of ign asking and answering whether Batman really 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.120 kills And this is very much in that space where 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.160 the devil doesn't. Matt doesn't like to think he kills people, 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.960 but the reality is he does. It's just Punisher does 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:13.240 it in a way that is more defined. He's like 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:14.719 you are getting shot in the. 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.839 Head, Like, yeah, he's just blowing people away. 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.840 He's blowing people away. He's not just beating him up 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.200 to get a rid of like Matt is a lot 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.560 of what he does, just like Batman is a Catharsis, 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.520 Whereas I think that Frank doesn't really get any Catharsis 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.599 from killing these people. He just thinks it's what they 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.159 deserve because his family died. 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:38.240 I would Punisher is the more honest, vigilante about what 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:43.000 he is doing, correct, Whereas while Matt is delusional on 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.280 several level, like in his personal life, in his career, 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.000 in his career as a crime fighter, it's that Catholic 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.279 guilt thing of like, you know, I'm doing the thing 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.200 that satisfies me, but also I hate myself for doing 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:57.799 the thing. 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.520 But also it's like it's the right thing to do. 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.799 So I feel like, well, Punisher is more honest. Obviously, 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.280 I feel like Mad is the better one for society. 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:11.120 He's really compromised. Yes, obviously, as well, like we do 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.520 have to put this into the context of the fact that, 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:18.520 like when The Punisher was created as a Spider Man 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:23.280 villain by the way, in you know, the seventies, created 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.679 by Jerry Conway and John Remy Asenia and Russ Andrew, 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:28.720 who many people often forget, but he was an amazing 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.160 Spider Man villain and we were not living in a 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:35.360 time where mass shootings were like an every day, every 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:36.080 week occurrent. 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.000 That was also the period of the seventies where perception 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.279 and the truth of it, you know, was like crime 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.359 was a lot higher, much much higher than it is today, 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:50.200 and movies like Charles Bronson's The Charles Bronson Vehicle Death, 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:55.200 Witch and the Dirty Hairy series were extremely popular, and 0:06:55.360 --> 0:07:00.559 while The Punisher was introduced as basically a villain, quickly 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:05.360 became popular because of that feeling, that anti hero feeling 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.880 that was exactly culturally at that time. 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.480 You're so right, and it was actually I think Jerry 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.720 Conway said that he was inspired by The Executioner, which 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.040 was like a you know those thomb Pendleton where it's 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.160 like those popular book series. 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.480 The Executioners. In biography, Yeah. 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.280 The first book is called War Against the Mafia, so 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.320 I think you can understand. But those books sold millions 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.840 and millions of copies. So I think you bring up 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:34.800 a great point, like, at that time, this idea of 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:41.440 psychologically unhinged anti heroes who maybe had a background in 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.080 the military or who had lost someone and were driven 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.320 to you know, there's so many movies about that stuff 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.960 post Death Wish, which set up this idea of like 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:55.200 vengeance against you know, criminals being this righteous path the 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.760 substitute movies where a guy just goes into like a 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.480 predominantly black and around school and just starts like breaking 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.560 people's fingers and everyone's like, yeah, those kids are badly behaved. 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.040 They deserved it. Death Wish is very much in line 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.280 with that. So I think that that makes season two 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.800 of Daredevil and The Punisher in general, and as people 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:14.720 know who have listened to this podcast or who read 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.720 Marvel Comics, that has been an ongoing conversation at Marvel 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:22.960 Comics since really the twenty tens at least, if not before, 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.120 the idea of like what does the Punisher represent? And 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.720 so I do think that the show was a little 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.360 bit ironically, even though it's from twenty sixteen, I think 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.400 it was like a little bit ahead of the conversation 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.800 and wasn't as ready to have the wider conversation. So 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.600 I'm hoping the new show will. But I do find 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:42.480 I love a conversation about how. 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:44.520 To be a bit. I do think overall that the 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.760 Matt Frank stuff is the most interesting stuff in this 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.160 season for me. Oh, no question, And then I thought 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.800 they could have really gone a lot farther with it. 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.319 But this conversation on the rooftop, I think for me 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.600 is the highlight of season two. 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:02.920 Oh, I agree, And it's the one that feels most 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.160 like you're reading a comic. It takes directly from the comics. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:07.480 It looks beautiful. Yeah, I agree. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.719 Meanwhile, someone else has arrived back in town. It is 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:17.400 Matt's college girlfriend, Electronacchios. She's a boy. Does she smell great, 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.240 just like she did back in the college days. We 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.320 get the flashback of the college days where that's another Honestly, 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.840 another highlight for me is like they nailed the chemistry, 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:32.880 which is two rich girl, blue collar guy, both like 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:38.040 intense physical chemistry. They both shouldn't be with each other, 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.760 and they and that is what makes them want to 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:42.679 be with each other is like they both shouldn't be 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:47.520 doing this, and it is messy, it is chaotic, and 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:49.880 it is intensely physical. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.720 Also, I love that she she turns up in Matt's 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:54.959 apartment just thought to him and Karen have had like 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.960 a romantic moment and they're like will they won't they? 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.520 And then Electra's there and it's like won't they? Because 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.319 Electra is here and she is a complex, holy imagined 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.120 woman unlike Carenpage in this. 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.600 Series sadly, sadly said, will get more sadly. So, yeah, 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.679 Elektra is back in town and she's got this kind 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:21.760 of like issue with various Japanese shell companies. 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.720 Including a rock Song Corporation. 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.880 Including rocks On Corporation. She's Matt's help with this. Also, 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:38.080 The Hand, the Assassin offshoot arm of the Yakuza Japanese 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:43.959 mafia Association, is after Electra four reasons, which we will 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:48.280 discover why. Because they're obsessed with Black Sky, as we 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:52.800 saw from season one of Daredevil, a kind of prophesied 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:57.040 super clan leader for the Hand and the Yakuza, and 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:02.400 they believe that Electra is Black Stock and she's not 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:07.559 like super interested in being this person. So that is 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:12.720 obviously a problem. Meanwhile, Frank Castle is still out there murdering, murdering, murdering, murdering. 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:18.000 Things escalate. Elektra and Matt fight the Hand. She dies 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.440 protecting Matt in an epic battle on the rooftop. Later, 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.480 there's gonna be a funeral and everything. Frank Castle shows 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.840 up just when things look like it's gonna be they're 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:32.000 gonna go really bad for Matt, and he shoots various 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:38.079 hand assassins so Matt doesn't become a killer in a 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.320 moment that actually like, I was surprised at how yeah 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:42.079 I was. 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.599 I know that's the one thing they get you. This 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.280 man is shooting like multiple. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:57.719 I got your bat Castle. Then later goes off and 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.599 finds the person responsible for killing a family, and he 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.880 kills the guy who burns out his house. Matt tells 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.000 Karen that he is Daredevil. He shows her the mask 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.640 and everything. She is shocked, and then in kind of 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.000 a stinger, we see that deep down in some tunnel 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.559 somewhere under Manhattan, the Hand is all crowded around a 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.760 coffin with some writing on it. They open the coffin 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:26.080 and guess who's inside. Electra Oh oh, what could ever 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.160 happened there? I wonder if there's a famous story arc 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.480 we could look. Let's talk about the Karen Page problem, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.480 which I think is very pressing in season two. 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.400 In season two, I think it is the most pressing 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.240 because it feels to me it's the oneickest part of 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:40.240 the season. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.480 The Karen Page scenes are just throwaways. They should be better, 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:45.000 but they're not. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.880 She doesn't exist outside of a man, and that the 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.400 problem is that was the same in season one, but 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.360 she actually killed that man, ben Uric and Uric and 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:02.360 then becomes benyurretta Benic basically single white females him and 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.240 I hate that choice that they made. I think that 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.360 what they were trying to do with season one and 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.440 season two Karen Page is emulate the Karen Page from 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.600 the Born Again Comics, who, as we talked about, opens 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:21.480 the comics as basically an unreliable friend, somebody who will 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.199 sell Matt out, somebody who will sell people out. I 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.360 think they wanted to have that duality and complexity. But 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.959 Karen grows in that comic. I can't believe I once 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.599 again here giving credit to Frank Miller, but like in 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.680 this story, she doesn't really have that growth. 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.400 She has very static, she never has the full picture. 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:44.240 She never has agency, She's never making truly informed decisions, 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.719 and it's I really want this to be rectified in 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.360 the new season because I will. I think that that 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.760 Deborah am Will as Karen Page is some of the 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.600 best casting in the MCU. I think she does her 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.880 best with what she yes. I think her the way 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.800 that her and Matt have this kind of childlike first 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.520 love chemistry is so accurate. She represents to Matt a 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.520 different kind of life, an honest life. But she should 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:15.559 be more than just what she represents to men. And 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:20.320 her relationship with Frank castleheads very confusing. Her relationship with 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.960 Matt is Confusingly, it. 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:24.840 Felt like they were trying to set up almost like 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.280 a romance or something of a protective and that never 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:30.960 and then they were like, wait a second, this is crazy, 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.640 but let's salvage some of it. Like it was just 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:35.880 it didn't work. The Karen Paige stuff just didn't work 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:37.840 in season two. And thus it feels like this is 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.840 the season when we have said in our previous coverage 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.120 that there's a lot of fat on the bone here 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.560 and not enough meat. This is one of those things 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:46.280 they could have made. 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.120 Yeah, they could have, and especially because the stuff that 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.200 is good, it really sings and you just kind of wish. 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.640 I think that after having such a like smash it 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.400 first season, they probably went into this without necessarily getting 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.680 a lot of notes. I know Disney probably does give 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.400 you a lot of notes, or Netflix give you a 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.760 lot of notes. So I'm not taking away the amount 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.760 of work that was done on notes, because notes suck 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:10.960 and are hard, but they do make the show better. 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.160 But I feel like in this they were given kind 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.360 of do what you want, because it very much feels 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.280 like there are bloated moments or there are choices that 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.960 they make here where they could have been streamlining. Like 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.520 them the Dead Devil and Electra stuff is so good, 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.520 and that's such a prime part of the. 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:30.960 Character energy there. 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.080 It's so important to both of them, and also very 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.040 interesting to bring back Stick and kind of have this 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.240 reveal that they were almost like the two naughty children 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.920 he was training to be murderers. Very interesting, complex stuff there. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:50.280 I do think that the Punisher casting is absolutely fantastic. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.560 I know he'd get it, he's great, But I also 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.880 think there is something left wanting in a version of 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.080 Punisher that is a modern daverse the Punisher that kind 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:03.640 of just presents him as a different option to dead 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.320 evil without really having more of a commentary on the 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:09.960 on the way he does it, like going around in 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.840 a bulletproofess just shooting people up in America. That's a 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.360 very horrible thing to think about. It happens all the time, 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.560 and you can't really be making the same movie you 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.360 were making before with the eighties Punisher or Punisher war 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.280 Zone or whatever version you were making, which, by the way, guys, 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.360 there are many Punisher movies and you will find a 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.560 favorite because there are some pretty yeah. 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.720 Yeah, yeah, it's season two. 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.200 It's it's it's good, but it's not great. 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:38.080 It's yes, that is that is absolutely the case. The 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.480 good Punisher movie, by the way, is two thousand and 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.440 four's The Punisher. Yes, Thomas Jane and John. 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.480 For I am actually good movie, actually good movie. And 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.320 also the opening of that movie where they do like 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.440 the dramatic like how his family was killed and they're 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.000 like all wearing like white. It's so ridiculous and I 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:58.160 love it. Super campy. 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.880 The big Russian in the in the apartment is like 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:03.640 so good and really. 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.440 Yeah, and there are a lot of Punisher war Zone 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.680 fans out there who loved that movie. Also one of 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.800 the first superhero movies directed by a woman. 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.879 Listen Jim Lee drawing Punisher. I'm in. I was a 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:19.120 big Punisher Warzone fan. Shots to my microchip heads back 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:19.520 in the day. 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.600 Okay, oh, microchip is in the MCU baby. I think 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:24.840 we got a microchip in this. 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.600 So yeah, very excited. Okay, So we go from season 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.720 two of Daredevil two the Defenders. That's right, we got 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:32.520 to talk about it. 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.760 Just what you wanted. You all wanted to hear this. 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.560 We have to talk about it a little bit. Okay. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.359 You think I'm in a Channel's defender, Jason is a 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:56.240 Defender's Defender. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.480 I think some of it works. Okay, So anyway, we'll 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.320 keep it very brief. Isn't dead shocker? She's been resurrected 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:06.240 by the hand oh uh? You know want her for 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.760 Black Sky the Black Sky roll. And also now that 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:10.800 she's resurrected, she's kind of like mind wiped. 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.159 I feel like, can she be back Sky if they 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.359 just mind wiped her? That was always annoying to me. 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.480 I was like, are you completely the actual elect list 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.160 but anyway, the Hand, they're a mess that you want 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:22.920 to talk about, not fully fleshed out. 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.400 The Hand is not fully fleshed out. The Hand as 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:30.680 a antagonist force doesn't work for me too, Anonymous, What 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.160 do they care about? They're just like bad guys. It's 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.600 also like a holdover from like eighties japan Japanophobia, and 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.840 it just doesn't it doesn't work. 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.680 It's all hilarious because in the Ninja Tas as you 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:47.800 guys know, the villains are called the Foot and they 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:49.920 were a parody of the Hand, so the Hand immediately 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:55.200 feels like a parody. Anyway, in a much much maligned 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.359 Elektra movie, there is actually a really interesting version of 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.480 the Hand with like supernatural kind of hand members and 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.160 there's a guy who's come alive off his body. It's 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.600 still not great, but it's definitely more interesting than just 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.399 like that anonymous Ninjas. You can be killed? 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:17.680 Yes, okay, So Matt as Daredevil teams up with all 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:22.240 your favorite street level heroes from the Flash MCU, including 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.680 Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Danny Rand in order to 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.600 stop the Hand and Electra. The relationship is still complicated. 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.359 The defenders have a big fight with the Hand in 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:37.320 the hands like magic fortress built over a dragon skeleton, 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.479 and at the end they defeat the Hand, but Matt 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:47.399 like dies maybe and the building collapses on him. And 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.920 that is why in season three, the opening of season 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.520 three of Daredevil, Matt is washing up out of a sewer. 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.960 Because some of you who did not watch Defenders but 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.399 did watch season three of Daredevil, or some of you 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.720 who are like, let me do a Daredevil rewatch, You'll 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.360 get to season three and Matt will wash up out 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.240 of a sewer and you'll be like, what the fuck 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:11.639 is this? 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.080 Why is and who is this? Who is this nun? 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.680 That's maxim that Matt. So yeah, so Matt, he washes 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.800 up out of a sewer and he's tended to by 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.520 a nun named Maggie, who is his mom. You know 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:25.399 that from the comics and you know that from our 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:30.480 previous Daredevil coverage and our Daredevil Born Again club. So 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.639 Matt at the opening of season three of Daredevil is 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.840 like angry, depressed, disillusioned, and he's done with the Daredevil costume. 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.520 He's not doing this stuff anymore, but he still is 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.560 out going out into the streets. But he's wearing his 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:49.320 early season one costume, which is just like the black shirt, 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.119 Black Pill and the Little Black. He's basically dressed as 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:59.080 a waiter or a bartender, but it's he's like he's 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.040 like a kid's roaring of a ninja. 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.119 Yeah, but he also could be you know, if he 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.320 needs to take that half and just like look like 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.600 he's you know, serving kandapace, he could also do it. 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:14.600 That's right. Fisk meanwhile is behind bars, but he is 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:16.920 making moves. He's cutting a deal. He cuts a deal 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:21.000 with the government where he's providing information on former gang associates, 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:27.120 dirty Teitians, dirty judges, including the Albanian mob who get 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:31.040 really mad at him. So when he is being transported 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.919 by the FBI to the beautiful penthouse that they are 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:36.560 going to put him up in, you know that he 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:38.440 is becoming such a huge snitch. 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.280 This is so good that, like, you know what snitches 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:42.879 get in the Marvel universe. 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:47.560 A sick, beautiful, beautiful penhouse, gorgeous. 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.840 Viewty oh blah, we love it. I love Wilson Fists 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.359 so much. I love Incindinofrio, I love how I just 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.119 instantly believe all of his schemes are true, Like, this 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.760 is the most unrealistic thing in the world. Obviously, we 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.480 know rich people do get preferential treatment, but this is 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:05.320 so comic Bookie, Oh yeah, it. 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:07.520 Does seem like I gotta say, it does seem like criminal. 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:09.680 Rich people get away with everything. So they get away 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:10.159 with everything. 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.000 And I love that this season and I think we 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.280 both agree that season three is like a return to 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:19.639 form after season two. But like, I love how it 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:24.040 opens and you're really in that classic comic book setup 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:26.560