1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Hey, read today's episodes, can days spoilers for Daredevil seasons 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: two and three plus the directors, because you actually need 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: to know. 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: That information, all right? Red? 5 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: Hello, Am is Jason Excepcion. 6 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 3: A rosy night? 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll come on X ray Vision the podcast 8 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: when we dive Dee video verite, movies, comics and pop culture. 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: Color you from iHeart Podcast where we're bringing you three 10 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, plus news 11 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: on the weekends. 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 3: Well, in today's episode, we are nothing if not completionists here, 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 3: So we have not only watched That Devil season one 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 3: and recapped it, which you can listen to now on 15 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 3: a previous episode, but we are also recapped Being Dead 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 3: over seasons two and three with a small intermission to 17 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 3: cover the defenders, because believe it or not, you need it, 18 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: you need it, you do need it, or otherwise you're 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 3: gonna be asking questions. 20 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: So what happened? 21 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 3: Right like we're gonna be asking in this episode important questions. 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 3: Is Matt a good lawyer or simply a great monologuer? 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 3: How many men can speak in groud whispers? And keep 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 3: our attention? Why does Karen Page do anything that she does, 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: and what portion of the Born Again comic book that 26 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 3: we covered in our book club does the Disney Plus 27 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 3: series named after it actually have left to tell. Let's 28 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 3: get into it, Okay. Daredevil season two headline, who's killing everybody? 29 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 3: The Punisher, he's in town and who's murdering and the 30 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: Punisher is. 31 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: Laying absolute fucking waste to various organized crime groups in 32 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: the city, Bikers, mafia, everybody is just get blown away. 33 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: You get a crazy shot at one point. You have 34 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: a crazy shot at one point where the camera like 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: peers through the blown out bullet wound in a guy 36 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: as like an FBI agent is looking into the bullet hole. 37 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: It's and it's nuts. Matt of course, is like, this 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: is a problem. I've got to figure out what is 39 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: going on. And initially everybody else like. 40 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 3: This guy, like why doesn't he want. 41 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: To go to cool? And initially everybody is thinking this 42 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: must be like a gang, like a Seal Team six 43 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: gang or something. No, it's one guy. This comes to 44 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: a head in the middle of the season where Matt 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: and this guy, the Frank Castle, the Punisher, and they 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: have this big conversation on a rooftop that is uh, 47 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: basically the philosophical arc of this season, like what is 48 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: a vigilante? Is it better to do it Matt's way 49 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: where you're just using your fists? Is it better to 50 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: do it Frank's way? 51 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 3: Where is there even really a difference? 52 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: Is there a difference between the two? And this all 53 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: comes to a head with a wonderful nod from the 54 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: comic books where Frank has Matt tied up and in chains. 55 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: He wakes up, and you know, Matt wakes up on 56 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: the rooftop. He's like, why didn't you take off my mask? 57 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: Frank's like, I don't care who you are. And then 58 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: they have this long philosophical debate about which path is 59 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: better and is there even a difference between the two? 60 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: Come on, Red, what are you just gonna act like 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: you're a kid at the playground beating criddles up with 62 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: your fists. I'm putting them away for good. And then 63 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: finally Frank gives Matt a choice. He's like, here's okay, 64 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: here's what's gonna happen. I'm gonna kill this guy unless 65 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: you here's a gun, unless you shoot me crazy because 66 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: Matt refuses to do it, but Frank shoots the guy anyway, 67 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: Matt's not able to save the guy. Debate debate over, 68 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: we get some of the Frank Backstore, in which we 69 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: discover that, uh, just like in the comics, his family 70 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: was murdered in a botched gangland assassination and now Frank 71 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: Castle is making sure that criminals pay the price. 72 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: I just want to say something, right, so, Matt Murdoch, 73 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: sweet Catholic boy, Matt Murdock. Right, but look, we have 74 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 3: seen this man definitely kill people before. Like he's breaking 75 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 3: people's necks. He's given me they're getting severe head trauma 76 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 3: like that. 77 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, they'resspills who will like never speak to that family 78 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: a gang because they're. 79 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 3: On like a fucking iron lung. I feel like it's 80 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 3: that actually ironically makes this a way more interesting season 81 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 3: for me. But even though the show isn't fully ready 82 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 3: to grapple with it, if you've actually the seasons, it's 83 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: the Batman thing, Like it's the book does it mean 84 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 3: to kill someone? The truth is, if you've I wrote 85 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 3: a two hundred I think it was twenty five hundred 86 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 3: worth piece of ign asking and answering whether Batman really 87 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 3: kills And this is very much in that space where 88 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 3: the devil doesn't. Matt doesn't like to think he kills people, 89 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 3: but the reality is he does. It's just Punisher does 90 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 3: it in a way that is more defined. He's like 91 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 3: you are getting shot in the. 92 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: Head, Like, yeah, he's just blowing people away. 93 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 3: He's blowing people away. He's not just beating him up 94 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 3: to get a rid of like Matt is a lot 95 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 3: of what he does, just like Batman is a Catharsis, 96 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 3: Whereas I think that Frank doesn't really get any Catharsis 97 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 3: from killing these people. He just thinks it's what they 98 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 3: deserve because his family died. 99 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: I would Punisher is the more honest, vigilante about what 100 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: he is doing, correct, Whereas while Matt is delusional on 101 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: several level, like in his personal life, in his career, 102 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: in his career as a crime fighter, it's that Catholic 103 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: guilt thing of like, you know, I'm doing the thing 104 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: that satisfies me, but also I hate myself for doing 105 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:57,799 Speaker 1: the thing. 106 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 3: But also it's like it's the right thing to do. 107 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 1: So I feel like, well, Punisher is more honest. Obviously, 108 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: I feel like Mad is the better one for society. 109 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 3: He's really compromised. Yes, obviously, as well, like we do 110 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 3: have to put this into the context of the fact that, 111 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 3: like when The Punisher was created as a Spider Man 112 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 3: villain by the way, in you know, the seventies, created 113 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 3: by Jerry Conway and John Remy Asenia and Russ Andrew, 114 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 3: who many people often forget, but he was an amazing 115 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 3: Spider Man villain and we were not living in a 116 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 3: time where mass shootings were like an every day, every 117 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 3: week occurrent. 118 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: That was also the period of the seventies where perception 119 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: and the truth of it, you know, was like crime 120 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: was a lot higher, much much higher than it is today, 121 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: and movies like Charles Bronson's The Charles Bronson Vehicle Death, 122 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: Witch and the Dirty Hairy series were extremely popular, and 123 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 1: while The Punisher was introduced as basically a villain, quickly 124 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: became popular because of that feeling, that anti hero feeling 125 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: that was exactly culturally at that time. 126 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 3: You're so right, and it was actually I think Jerry 127 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 3: Conway said that he was inspired by The Executioner, which 128 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: was like a you know those thomb Pendleton where it's 129 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 3: like those popular book series. 130 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: The Executioners. In biography, Yeah. 131 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 3: The first book is called War Against the Mafia, so 132 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: I think you can understand. But those books sold millions 133 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 3: and millions of copies. So I think you bring up 134 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: a great point, like, at that time, this idea of 135 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 3: psychologically unhinged anti heroes who maybe had a background in 136 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 3: the military or who had lost someone and were driven 137 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 3: to you know, there's so many movies about that stuff 138 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 3: post Death Wish, which set up this idea of like 139 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: vengeance against you know, criminals being this righteous path the 140 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 3: substitute movies where a guy just goes into like a 141 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: predominantly black and around school and just starts like breaking 142 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 3: people's fingers and everyone's like, yeah, those kids are badly behaved. 143 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 3: They deserved it. Death Wish is very much in line 144 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: with that. So I think that that makes season two 145 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: of Daredevil and The Punisher in general, and as people 146 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 3: know who have listened to this podcast or who read 147 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: Marvel Comics, that has been an ongoing conversation at Marvel 148 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 3: Comics since really the twenty tens at least, if not before, 149 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 3: the idea of like what does the Punisher represent? And 150 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 3: so I do think that the show was a little 151 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 3: bit ironically, even though it's from twenty sixteen, I think 152 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: it was like a little bit ahead of the conversation 153 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 3: and wasn't as ready to have the wider conversation. So 154 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 3: I'm hoping the new show will. But I do find 155 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 3: I love a conversation about how. 156 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: To be a bit. I do think overall that the 157 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: Matt Frank stuff is the most interesting stuff in this 158 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: season for me. Oh, no question, And then I thought 159 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: they could have really gone a lot farther with it. 160 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: But this conversation on the rooftop, I think for me 161 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: is the highlight of season two. 162 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 3: Oh, I agree, And it's the one that feels most 163 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 3: like you're reading a comic. It takes directly from the comics. 164 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 3: It looks beautiful. Yeah, I agree. 165 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, someone else has arrived back in town. It is 166 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: Matt's college girlfriend, Electronacchios. She's a boy. Does she smell great, 167 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: just like she did back in the college days. We 168 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: get the flashback of the college days where that's another Honestly, 169 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: another highlight for me is like they nailed the chemistry, 170 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: which is two rich girl, blue collar guy, both like 171 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: intense physical chemistry. They both shouldn't be with each other, 172 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: and they and that is what makes them want to 173 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: be with each other is like they both shouldn't be 174 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: doing this, and it is messy, it is chaotic, and 175 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: it is intensely physical. 176 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 3: Also, I love that she she turns up in Matt's 177 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 3: apartment just thought to him and Karen have had like 178 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 3: a romantic moment and they're like will they won't they? 179 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 3: And then Electra's there and it's like won't they? Because 180 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 3: Electra is here and she is a complex, holy imagined 181 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 3: woman unlike Carenpage in this. 182 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: Series sadly, sadly said, will get more sadly. So, yeah, 183 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: Elektra is back in town and she's got this kind 184 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: of like issue with various Japanese shell companies. 185 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 3: Including a rock Song Corporation. 186 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: Including rocks On Corporation. She's Matt's help with this. Also, 187 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: The Hand, the Assassin offshoot arm of the Yakuza Japanese 188 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: mafia Association, is after Electra four reasons, which we will 189 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: discover why. Because they're obsessed with Black Sky, as we 190 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: saw from season one of Daredevil, a kind of prophesied 191 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: super clan leader for the Hand and the Yakuza, and 192 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: they believe that Electra is Black Stock and she's not 193 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: like super interested in being this person. So that is 194 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: obviously a problem. Meanwhile, Frank Castle is still out there murdering, murdering, murdering, murdering. 195 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: Things escalate. Elektra and Matt fight the Hand. She dies 196 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: protecting Matt in an epic battle on the rooftop. Later, 197 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a funeral and everything. Frank Castle shows 198 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: up just when things look like it's gonna be they're 199 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: gonna go really bad for Matt, and he shoots various 200 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: hand assassins so Matt doesn't become a killer in a 201 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: moment that actually like, I was surprised at how yeah 202 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: I was. 203 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,599 Speaker 3: I know that's the one thing they get you. This 204 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 3: man is shooting like multiple. 205 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,719 Speaker 1: I got your bat Castle. Then later goes off and 206 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,599 Speaker 1: finds the person responsible for killing a family, and he 207 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: kills the guy who burns out his house. Matt tells 208 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: Karen that he is Daredevil. He shows her the mask 209 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: and everything. She is shocked, and then in kind of 210 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: a stinger, we see that deep down in some tunnel 211 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: somewhere under Manhattan, the Hand is all crowded around a 212 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: coffin with some writing on it. They open the coffin 213 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: and guess who's inside. Electra Oh oh, what could ever 214 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: happened there? I wonder if there's a famous story arc 215 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: we could look. Let's talk about the Karen Page problem, 216 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: which I think is very pressing in season two. 217 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 3: In season two, I think it is the most pressing 218 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 3: because it feels to me it's the oneickest part of 219 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 3: the season. 220 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: The Karen Page scenes are just throwaways. They should be better, 221 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: but they're not. 222 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 3: She doesn't exist outside of a man, and that the 223 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 3: problem is that was the same in season one, but 224 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 3: she actually killed that man, ben Uric and Uric and 225 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: then becomes benyurretta Benic basically single white females him and 226 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 3: I hate that choice that they made. I think that 227 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: what they were trying to do with season one and 228 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 3: season two Karen Page is emulate the Karen Page from 229 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 3: the Born Again Comics, who, as we talked about, opens 230 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 3: the comics as basically an unreliable friend, somebody who will 231 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 3: sell Matt out, somebody who will sell people out. I 232 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 3: think they wanted to have that duality and complexity. But 233 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 3: Karen grows in that comic. I can't believe I once 234 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,599 Speaker 3: again here giving credit to Frank Miller, but like in 235 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 3: this story, she doesn't really have that growth. 236 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: She has very static, she never has the full picture. 237 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 3: She never has agency, She's never making truly informed decisions, 238 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 3: and it's I really want this to be rectified in 239 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 3: the new season because I will. I think that that 240 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 3: Deborah am Will as Karen Page is some of the 241 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 3: best casting in the MCU. I think she does her 242 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 3: best with what she yes. I think her the way 243 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 3: that her and Matt have this kind of childlike first 244 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 3: love chemistry is so accurate. She represents to Matt a 245 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 3: different kind of life, an honest life. But she should 246 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 3: be more than just what she represents to men. And 247 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 3: her relationship with Frank castleheads very confusing. Her relationship with 248 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: Matt is Confusingly, it. 249 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: Felt like they were trying to set up almost like 250 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: a romance or something of a protective and that never 251 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: and then they were like, wait a second, this is crazy, 252 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: but let's salvage some of it. Like it was just 253 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: it didn't work. The Karen Paige stuff just didn't work 254 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: in season two. And thus it feels like this is 255 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: the season when we have said in our previous coverage 256 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: that there's a lot of fat on the bone here 257 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: and not enough meat. This is one of those things 258 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: they could have made. 259 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, they could have, and especially because the stuff that 260 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 3: is good, it really sings and you just kind of wish. 261 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 3: I think that after having such a like smash it 262 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 3: first season, they probably went into this without necessarily getting 263 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 3: a lot of notes. I know Disney probably does give 264 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 3: you a lot of notes, or Netflix give you a 265 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 3: lot of notes. So I'm not taking away the amount 266 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 3: of work that was done on notes, because notes suck 267 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 3: and are hard, but they do make the show better. 268 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 3: But I feel like in this they were given kind 269 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 3: of do what you want, because it very much feels 270 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 3: like there are bloated moments or there are choices that 271 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 3: they make here where they could have been streamlining. Like 272 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: them the Dead Devil and Electra stuff is so good, 273 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 3: and that's such a prime part of the. 274 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: Character energy there. 275 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 3: It's so important to both of them, and also very 276 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 3: interesting to bring back Stick and kind of have this 277 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 3: reveal that they were almost like the two naughty children 278 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 3: he was training to be murderers. Very interesting, complex stuff there. 279 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 3: I do think that the Punisher casting is absolutely fantastic. 280 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 3: I know he'd get it, he's great, But I also 281 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 3: think there is something left wanting in a version of 282 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 3: Punisher that is a modern daverse the Punisher that kind 283 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 3: of just presents him as a different option to dead 284 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 3: evil without really having more of a commentary on the 285 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 3: on the way he does it, like going around in 286 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 3: a bulletproofess just shooting people up in America. That's a 287 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 3: very horrible thing to think about. It happens all the time, 288 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: and you can't really be making the same movie you 289 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 3: were making before with the eighties Punisher or Punisher war 290 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: Zone or whatever version you were making, which, by the way, guys, 291 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 3: there are many Punisher movies and you will find a 292 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 3: favorite because there are some pretty yeah. 293 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's season two. 294 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 3: It's it's it's good, but it's not great. 295 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: It's yes, that is that is absolutely the case. The 296 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: good Punisher movie, by the way, is two thousand and 297 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: four's The Punisher. Yes, Thomas Jane and John. 298 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 3: For I am actually good movie, actually good movie. And 299 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 3: also the opening of that movie where they do like 300 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 3: the dramatic like how his family was killed and they're 301 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 3: like all wearing like white. It's so ridiculous and I 302 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: love it. Super campy. 303 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: The big Russian in the in the apartment is like 304 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: so good and really. 305 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and there are a lot of Punisher war Zone 306 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 3: fans out there who loved that movie. Also one of 307 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 3: the first superhero movies directed by a woman. 308 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: Listen Jim Lee drawing Punisher. I'm in. I was a 309 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: big Punisher Warzone fan. Shots to my microchip heads back 310 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: in the day. 311 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: Okay, oh, microchip is in the MCU baby. I think 312 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 3: we got a microchip in this. 313 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, very excited. Okay, So we go from season 314 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: two of Daredevil two the Defenders. That's right, we got 315 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: to talk about it. 316 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 3: Just what you wanted. You all wanted to hear this. 317 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: We have to talk about it a little bit. Okay. 318 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 3: You think I'm in a Channel's defender, Jason is a 319 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 3: Defender's Defender. 320 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: I think some of it works. Okay, So anyway, we'll 321 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: keep it very brief. Isn't dead shocker? She's been resurrected 322 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: by the hand oh uh? You know want her for 323 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: Black Sky the Black Sky roll. And also now that 324 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: she's resurrected, she's kind of like mind wiped. 325 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 3: I feel like, can she be back Sky if they 326 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 3: just mind wiped her? That was always annoying to me. 327 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 3: I was like, are you completely the actual elect list 328 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 3: but anyway, the Hand, they're a mess that you want 329 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 3: to talk about, not fully fleshed out. 330 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: The Hand is not fully fleshed out. The Hand as 331 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: a antagonist force doesn't work for me too, Anonymous, What 332 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: do they care about? They're just like bad guys. It's 333 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: also like a holdover from like eighties japan Japanophobia, and 334 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: it just doesn't it doesn't work. 335 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 3: It's all hilarious because in the Ninja Tas as you 336 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 3: guys know, the villains are called the Foot and they 337 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 3: were a parody of the Hand, so the Hand immediately 338 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 3: feels like a parody. Anyway, in a much much maligned 339 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 3: Elektra movie, there is actually a really interesting version of 340 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 3: the Hand with like supernatural kind of hand members and 341 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 3: there's a guy who's come alive off his body. It's 342 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 3: still not great, but it's definitely more interesting than just 343 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 3: like that anonymous Ninjas. You can be killed? 344 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So Matt as Daredevil teams up with all 345 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: your favorite street level heroes from the Flash MCU, including 346 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Danny Rand in order to 347 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: stop the Hand and Electra. The relationship is still complicated. 348 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: The defenders have a big fight with the Hand in 349 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: the hands like magic fortress built over a dragon skeleton, 350 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,479 Speaker 1: and at the end they defeat the Hand, but Matt 351 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: like dies maybe and the building collapses on him. And 352 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: that is why in season three, the opening of season 353 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: three of Daredevil, Matt is washing up out of a sewer. 354 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: Because some of you who did not watch Defenders but 355 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: did watch season three of Daredevil, or some of you 356 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: who are like, let me do a Daredevil rewatch, You'll 357 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: get to season three and Matt will wash up out 358 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: of a sewer and you'll be like, what the fuck 359 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: is this? 360 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 3: Why is and who is this? Who is this nun? 361 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: That's maxim that Matt. So yeah, so Matt, he washes 362 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: up out of a sewer and he's tended to by 363 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: a nun named Maggie, who is his mom. You know 364 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: that from the comics and you know that from our 365 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: previous Daredevil coverage and our Daredevil Born Again club. So 366 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: Matt at the opening of season three of Daredevil is 367 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: like angry, depressed, disillusioned, and he's done with the Daredevil costume. 368 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: He's not doing this stuff anymore, but he still is 369 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: out going out into the streets. But he's wearing his 370 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: early season one costume, which is just like the black shirt, 371 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: Black Pill and the Little Black. He's basically dressed as 372 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: a waiter or a bartender, but it's he's like he's 373 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: like a kid's roaring of a ninja. 374 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, but he also could be you know, if he 375 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 3: needs to take that half and just like look like 376 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 3: he's you know, serving kandapace, he could also do it. 377 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: That's right. Fisk meanwhile is behind bars, but he is 378 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: making moves. He's cutting a deal. He cuts a deal 379 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: with the government where he's providing information on former gang associates, 380 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: dirty Teitians, dirty judges, including the Albanian mob who get 381 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: really mad at him. So when he is being transported 382 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: by the FBI to the beautiful penthouse that they are 383 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: going to put him up in, you know that he 384 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: is becoming such a huge snitch. 385 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 3: This is so good that, like, you know what snitches 386 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 3: get in the Marvel universe. 387 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: A sick, beautiful, beautiful penhouse, gorgeous. 388 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 3: Viewty oh blah, we love it. I love Wilson Fists 389 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 3: so much. I love Incindinofrio, I love how I just 390 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 3: instantly believe all of his schemes are true, Like, this 391 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 3: is the most unrealistic thing in the world. Obviously, we 392 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 3: know rich people do get preferential treatment, but this is 393 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 3: so comic Bookie, Oh yeah, it. 394 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: Does seem like I gotta say, it does seem like criminal. 395 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: Rich people get away with everything. So they get away 396 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: with everything. 397 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 3: And I love that this season and I think we 398 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: both agree that season three is like a return to 399 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 3: form after season two. But like, I love how it 400 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 3: opens and you're really in that classic comic book setup 401 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 3: for the Devil for Spider Man, one of those things 402 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 3: that you love to see with the street level hero. 403 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 3: He is broken, he's nobody has his back, he's struggling, 404 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: he's doing his best, he's he's out there, he's training, 405 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 3: he's beating up the heavy bag, you know, and at 406 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 3: the same time, his villain has more power than ever. 407 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 3: It's such a good comic book set up, and it's 408 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 3: so fun to watch with these two actors in specific, 409 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 3: Charlie Cox and Vincent Deinofrio. I love you fantastic ten 410 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 3: out of ten performances. 411 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: So Wilson is being transported to his beautiful penthouse when 412 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: his convoy is ambushed by the Albanian mob and They 413 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: almost get Wilson, but a hard charging FBI agent named 414 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: Ben dex Poindexter, who has unently accurate aim, catches Fisk's eye, 415 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: and Fisk quickly gets to work corrupting this guy, which 416 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: is not hard because I mean he's already yeah he's 417 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: a psychopath, but begins trying to corrupt him in order 418 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: to turn him into his personal assassin, Bull's Eye. Matt 419 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: is in fully self destruct mode. He's refused, as we said, 420 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: he's refusing to wear the suit. He's lost all faith 421 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: in the in the system because he is seeing that 422 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: Wilson is like succeeding, He's like doing all this stuff 423 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: and playing the government like a fiddle. So he starts 424 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: investigating Fisk and what Fisk is up to. This leads 425 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: him into a Riker's Island. He goes undercover into Rikers 426 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: Island to go talk to some of the Albanian gang 427 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: members who are a prison there, and this turns into 428 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: what I believe to be one of the best action 429 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: scenes in television or movie. 430 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: Good It's so good. 431 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: Oh he gets Basically, Fisk tries to assassinate Matt, knowing 432 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: that Matt is jupiplant, right, He gets Mat. He like 433 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: maneuvers Matt into the like the nurse's office, where he's 434 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: then gonna have this fake nurse like inject him with stuff. 435 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: And this turns into a eleven minute fake one shot 436 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: like prison feels like one shot. It feels like a 437 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: one shot. The editing is really really good. 438 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 3: This is such a good scene. 439 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: I oh my god. 440 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 3: I feel like it is forgotten in the annals of 441 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 3: great MCU action scenes. I do think as well that 442 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 3: though we've always talked and fans have always talked, and 443 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 3: critics have always talked about how good the action wasn't 444 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 3: these shows. I think that bringing this into the canon 445 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 3: of the MCU is gonna hopefully make them reconsider the 446 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 3: way that they shoot action because we often don't get 447 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 3: this unbelievable You're gonna have the leg break. It does 448 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 3: feel like that. Also, Yeah, let Timo Tanto or Garrett 449 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 3: Evans make a fucking Marvel movie please, because I love 450 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 3: the raid. I love the Night Comes for us. We 451 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 3: need that kind of stuff. But yeah, this sequence is 452 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 3: so unreal. When I'm watching it for the pod, I'm 453 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 3: feeling that same like goosebumps come up. Yes, you know 454 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 3: when this begins because I know what's gonna happen, and 455 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 3: it's so brilliantly done. And also I love the way 456 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 3: that Matt It doesn't just show Matt's physical prowess, but 457 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 3: it shows his intelligence as a de lawyer. He's a 458 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 3: deal maker, he knows how to talk to people. He 459 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: comes and it shows that like he's a real blue 460 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 3: collar guy like Fisk is Fisc they know he'll go 461 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 3: back on it, but Matt can have a real conversation 462 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 3: with these people, and yeah, ma'n, what what a sequence. 463 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 3: So it just I just think that this this season 464 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 3: gets everything right in terms of that, Yeah, they're overdone stories, 465 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 3: but the idea of like what makes a hero and 466 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 3: also like these classic notions that it would take the MCU, 467 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 3: you know, years to do in Spider Man and No 468 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 3: Way Home and stuff, but like the notion of like, 469 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 3: is is dead evil a bad guy? And can the 470 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 3: hero turn people on dead evil? And that's what the 471 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 3: kind of bulk of the rest of the show becomes about. 472 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: So Matt, in the middle of this prison riot, meets 473 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: with you know, meets, he fights his way by like 474 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: tooth and nail to the Albanian mob, shot collar and 475 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: strikes this deal whereby they will help Man escape if 476 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: Matt helps them get revenge on Wilson Fisk. So Matt 477 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: manages to escape, and again, what is this is episode 478 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: four I believe. If you're not gonna watch, if you're. 479 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 3: Not gonna rewatch, just go through and just watch this scene. 480 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're not gonna rewatch the whole thing in 481 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: order to get ready for board again, just watch some 482 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: of the actions scene season two, the Hallway fight, and 483 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: I believe episode three with the gang with the Bikers, 484 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: and and episode four of season three, the eleven minute 485 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: prison escape is I think also. 486 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 3: Somebody will have probably done a super cap of Yeah, 487 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 3: that's got to be that somewhere. 488 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Fisk outside has gives Poindexter Decks a fake Daredevil. 489 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: Sooners like just go crazy, just go crazy, just do 490 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: your thing. 491 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 3: He's like, just do it, man, Yeah, may everyone hate you, 492 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 3: kill people? 493 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, this do whatever you gotta do. New York quickly 494 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: turns on Daredevil and now Matt has to fight this 495 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 1: psycho version of himself. 496 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 3: Fisk was also like he did try and kill Matt 497 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 3: after that, Like he drives Matt off the fucking bridge 498 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 3: like an then he's like, oh, I hope that he 499 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 3: dies in this submached taxi. He doesn't die, And then 500 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 3: I love this. 501 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: In another Born Again, another Born Again reference by the way, 502 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: and then and then I love. 503 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 3: The way that he's like, Okay, what worked for me 504 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 3: before he's like snitching, I'm gonna tell the FBI that 505 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 3: Matt Murdoch is like a fucking fixer. And it's like 506 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 3: so good to see this absolute character assassination of Matt, 507 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 3: who is already really his lowest. But that's what we 508 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 3: love to see. We love to see the good boys 509 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 3: get beaten down and then they're gonna fight their way 510 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 3: back up. But yeah, I have to say, now we're 511 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 3: talking about Poindexter Dex bulls Eye. I just love this 512 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 3: version of him so much, saying he's one of the 513 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 3: absolute best editions played by Wilson beth Or. He's very 514 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 3: much scary real, he's so scary. He brings to life 515 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 3: some of the scariest Bullseye comic stuff that is just 516 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 3: so horrific and nightmare and this kind of Yeah, he 517 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 3: was created by Marve Wolfman and John Remy a senior 518 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 3: and was kind of always kind of scary, but the 519 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 3: David Ahart era stuff where it's kind of like bulls 520 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 3: Eye understands what fucks with Matt. 521 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, he does, he knows, he knows the emotional pressure points, yes. 522 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 3: And also the physical ones, like in in Debt of 523 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 3: five hundred. I think about this page a lot. He 524 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 3: he sets off like little firecrackers fire and just like 525 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 3: devastates Matt and he does suddenly can't tell anything that's 526 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 3: going on. And there's also some really great Bullseye stuff 527 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: in the comics where you really get to see that 528 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 3: he is like a true psychopath, like he takes down 529 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 3: a whole He'll sit with a whole family dinner and 530 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 3: talk to the whole family kind of before he kills them. 531 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 3: He's a real Hannibal Lecter esque kind of nightmare serial killer. 532 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 3: And I think that they really sold that here. But 533 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 3: you know what else is crazy about this season that 534 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 3: I always forget, but then when I was rewatching it 535 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 3: absolutely happened to me again. I feel for Ben. I 536 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 3: feel for this guy because he is being manipulated by Kingpin, 537 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 3: who knows that he is a psychopath, but he doesn't 538 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 3: say to him like, oh, go get therapy, like go 539 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 3: help your life. He's make that worse. He's like, I'm 540 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 3: not gonna worp you to the point where you don't 541 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 3: even know like who you are anymore, Like he starts 542 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: to believe he is this dead Levil and oh man, 543 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 3: this stuff is just this is like prime MCU, prime Netflix, 544 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 3: Prestige Television, and yeah, just like what what what a performance. 545 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 3: I'm so glad he's coming back in the New and 546 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 3: Born again because I think it would have been an 547 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 3: absolute miss to not have him come back. 548 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: So everything comes to ahead with Matt facing off against 549 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: Wilson in a in their second round physical confrontation after 550 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: season one, Matt beats the Kingpin, forces him to confess, 551 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: and Fisk agrees, basically agrees to go back to jail, 552 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: in part because I can't Vanessa. He can't. Vanessa is 553 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: heavily implicated. A lot of Season three hinges on the 554 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: fact that Matt knows that Vanessa was involved in this stuff, 555 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: and then Wilson can't let her face any consequences at all. 556 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: That's why he's like, he's a wife guy. Yeah, he's 557 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: a big time wife guy. That's why he's become such 558 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: a massive snitch. And so finally faced with the possibility 559 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: that Vanessa could go to jail as well. Fisk confesses 560 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: to everything is like, I'll go to jail, and of course, 561 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: as we know, every time it happens, he always does this, 562 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: and as we know, Wilson stays behind bars for good. 563 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 3: This happen any problems never ap pis in any other 564 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 3: MCU shows. Definitely not scheming ap playing. What's Vanessa up to? Oh, 565 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 3: she's definitely not doing anything, Baddie the just you know, 566 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 3: she's just a simple just a simple art dealer and philanthropist, 567 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 3: you know, no connections to the mob. Nothing else is 568 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 3: gonna happen. No, Obviously we're covering this for a reason 569 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 3: that both coming out and I can't wait to see 570 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 3: what they get up to. 571 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: So that is the end of the excellent season three 572 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: of Daredevil, which first aired on Netflix. You can now 573 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: find it on Disney Plus. Let's take a quick break 574 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: here and go to our thoughts and predictions and we're back. Okay, 575 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,479 Speaker 1: So we've talked previously. We talked on our season one recap, 576 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: and we talked on our Boarding End book Club coverage 577 00:32:54,080 --> 00:33:00,239 Speaker 1: about how much Daredevil board again really is in season one, 578 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: two and three of Diardo well, and I think honestly, 579 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: season three might have the most of references and scenes 580 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: pulled directly from the comics. 581 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 3: Definitely, and also the notion of Fisk's plan in Born Again, 582 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 3: which is this kind of to destroy that, to destroy 583 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 3: his reputation, to destroy his standing with his friends, to 584 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 3: make it so he feels like he has nobody. We 585 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 3: really start season three in that space, and then from 586 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 3: there on out it's about the battle between the two 587 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 3: of them. I think ironically, the one thing that we 588 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 3: don't really get in season three that was so good 589 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 3: about this is I man, when I was like first 590 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 3: starting my journalism career and I was like I'd worked 591 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 3: in the comic shop and I'd read these books for 592 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 3: a long time, I would always be like just so 593 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 3: mad at all these guys who wrote these books where 594 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 3: the women don't have these great, you know, roles, or 595 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 3: they're kind of like written down. But it's funny because now, 596 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 3: obviously we are living in a space where we have 597 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 3: access to so many fantastic com by so many different people. 598 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 3: That really changed that. And uh, it's kind of funny 599 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 3: because looking back at it, I really was kind of 600 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 3: surprised by how much I liked Born Again, and also 601 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 3: by the fact that at the end Karen actually gets 602 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 3: a happy ending. This isn't a book where a sex 603 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 3: worker dies. This isn't a book where a drag addict dies, 604 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 3: you know. And I think I would have really actually 605 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 3: liked to have seen more of that kind of walking 606 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 3: off into the sunset, you know, a little bit more 607 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 3: of that real hopefulness. And I think it's it's kind 608 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 3: of funny that what was really taken from Born Again 609 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 3: was that darkness, you know. So I'm interested. I think 610 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 3: that from what we've seen so far, and from the 611 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 3: fact that we know spoilers if you haven't watched Echo 612 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 3: or you know Hawkeye, or you haven't been keeping up 613 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 3: with the news but or watched the trailers, so I 614 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 3: muffs on if you want to go and completely blind. 615 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 3: But we know that Wilson fit is going to be 616 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 3: the mayor. We know that Dead Evil and him are 617 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 3: going to come to some kind of you know, pack 618 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 3: to maybe work together and see what's happening in the city. 619 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 3: So I think with all the characters that are returning, 620 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 3: I don't think there's gonna actually be a lot of 621 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 3: Born Again in Dead Evil. Born Again I think they 622 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 3: went for the title because it makes sense they're reintroducing 623 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 3: him into the MCU. But what is the kind of 624 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 3: what's the status quo gonna be? We do know that 625 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 3: he will have a new love interest who is pulled 626 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 3: from the comics, so I'm interested to see. I do 627 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 3: hope the rumors about Electra coming back were true as well, 628 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 3: because I think, why not just throw everyone in there. 629 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 3: But I do think that it's gonna be one of 630 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 3: the longest seasons that Disney has done. I think it's 631 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 3: gonna be very character focused, but the fact that they're 632 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 3: bringing in Punisher, maybe Electra Vanessa's back, Bullseyes back, there's 633 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 3: not gonna be a lot of time to be doing 634 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 3: like very deep character explorations. I feel like this is 635 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 3: going to be more of like a best of how 636 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 3: do you reintroduce these characters into this world. I'm very 637 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,879 Speaker 3: interested to see what they do with Punished. We also 638 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 3: got the news recently that Punisher was going to have 639 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 3: his own kind of Marvel special, which I think could 640 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 3: really do a great job of recontextualizing him. I mean, 641 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 3: especially after how fantastic Werewolf by Night was. So Yeah, 642 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,399 Speaker 3: I'm interested to see how much Born Again is in there, 643 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 3: But also when we already have so many great moments 644 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 3: in these shows, I don't necessarily know that we need 645 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 3: to hit those, and we definitely don't need, you know, 646 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 3: Karen Page being a drug addict, unless they're going to 647 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 3: do something really thoughtful with it and interesting and kind 648 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 3: of explore addiction. But again, I don't know if they 649 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 3: have the space to do that when they're bringing back 650 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 3: so many characters and basically reintroducing these heroes in a 651 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 3: way that's going to canonize them but also tell us 652 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 3: what definitely isn't canon from these other shows. 653 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that, you know, it's interesting. As we've 654 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: talked about before, there's so much good Daredevil. Kingpin does 655 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: become Mayor in the comics during the Trial Seel Run. 656 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 3: Which is widely seen as one of the great great 657 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 3: friends of that evil, and so I. 658 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: Wonder if they don't combine some of like the Wade 659 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: and Sewel runs and make it so. I agree with 660 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: you that I think the trailer certainly suggests that Kingpin 661 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: and Matt come to some sort of agreement where they're like, listen, 662 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: we won't let's not attack each other because whatever there's 663 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: some okay. 664 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 3: Lawful evil, lawful good coming together. 665 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: You know, there's something else out there, but of course 666 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: they must come to a confrontation. I wonder if we 667 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: see something like when Matt essentially becomes like there's a 668 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: there's an arc in which Matt doesn't become the crime 669 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: boss of New York, but he basically like beats all 670 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: of the gangs into submission and he's like, Okay, you're 671 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 1: going to take orders from me now like normal violence. 672 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 3: Wonder it's interesting almost like a reversal where Kingpin is 673 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 3: keeping things lawful on a big scale and Matt is 674 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,800 Speaker 3: keeping things lawful on your more like underground crime scale. 675 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 3: That would be very interesting to see. 676 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: And then I do wonder, and then I feel like 677 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: it simply must go to a place where eventually, as 678 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: Mayor Wilson Fisk is like, we've all out war on 679 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: crime and the number one crime figure in New York 680 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: is Dareduble and. 681 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 3: We know exactly that's definitely what it's got to be. 682 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,240 Speaker 3: And also, once again one of mine and Jason's favorite 683 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 3: topics that we always return to, how do you set 684 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 3: up world where mutants I hated and feared in the 685 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 3: MCU where heroes are generally celebrated. Well, actually, the Netflix 686 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 3: series is do a good job of maybe establishing a 687 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 3: world where it's easy for people to turn on heroes. 688 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 3: We've seen the world turn on Spider Man in the 689 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,439 Speaker 3: MCU because of Mysterio, but this could be a much 690 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 3: more definitive way of doing it, especially if it's a law. 691 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 3: If he brings in legislation New York bands, you know, 692 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 3: massed vigilantes York. Look at the Punisher, look at Dad Evil, 693 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 3: look at Bullseye, who I'm definitely going to claim in 694 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 3: this case is a mass vigilante rather than a serial killer. 695 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 3: Suddenly you have a situation where maybe people aren't as 696 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 3: friendly towards those heroes, especially if you think about it 697 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 3: in the context of the fact that the president of 698 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 3: the MCU was just revealed as a hulk. You know, 699 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 3: that could definitely be a space. I really like that call. 700 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 3: I think I think you're on a good track with that. Okay, Jason, 701 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 3: this is a hard question because there are so many 702 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 3: Marvel TV series now, But where does this rank for you? 703 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 3: Jen if you put all three seasons together, where does 704 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 3: this rank on your list of best MCU or Marvel 705 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 3: inspired TV. 706 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: It might be the best. It might be. I think 707 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: it's it might be the best, and I think it's 708 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: certainly top three, even top two. Like you know, it 709 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: tastes vary, of course, but I think in terms of 710 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: it is of course very uneven. But I as all 711 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: the Marvel TV stuff has been I don't think that 712 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: there's a perfect in live action like X Men ninety 713 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: seven side pretty much. Yeah, I don't think that there's 714 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: been a perfect Marvel TV series, but I think the 715 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: highs are really really high, and I think the bar 716 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: that it sets for action yeah, is something that stands 717 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: on its own as a real achievement in television storytelling 718 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 1: for Marvel. And if they can combine all those things 719 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: Inborn Again, which the early reviews seem to suggest that 720 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: they have. 721 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 3: Yes, they did have the two episode premiere recently in 722 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 3: New York, of course, and so far the responses are 723 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 3: that it's good. It manages to meld those things. Obviously, 724 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 3: we know early responses are often skewed positive, but I 725 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 3: did see a lot of cool people at that premiere, 726 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 3: and I believe that they probably have that Simceles stuff 727 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 3: that they love to us. So I'm feeling positive, I 728 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 3: would say I agree. I think for me, I do 729 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 3: think Wondervision is still my top because I think it 730 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 3: because it's so much, so much shorter. 731 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: I really feel like I don't think WandaVision is the 732 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: one that, like, if you don't like Marvel, you can 733 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: watch it exactly. 734 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 3: And also it's it's it's so unique, it's so interesting. 735 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 3: But I do think that quality wise, if we're talking 736 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 3: only live action, Dead Devil's got to be next, even 737 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 3: with all of its issues. I think it's really funny 738 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 3: because it doesn't in a way it feels like it 739 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 3: was almost ten years ago, but it also feels like 740 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 3: it definitely wasn't almost ten years ago, or it was. 741 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 3: I think De Devil came out in twenty fourteen, so 742 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 3: it was eleven years ago. Maybe truly is yeah, but 743 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 3: but at the same time, like it's so influential it's 744 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 3: kind of hard to even sum it up. From the 745 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 3: title sequence that kind of changed how Prestige TV was 746 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 3: doing title sequences to the action to the fact that 747 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,439 Speaker 3: it may it was very much the Watchman of Superhero TV, 748 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,879 Speaker 3: where it was kind of this like Biff Bang Pal 749 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,840 Speaker 3: Now Superhero TV isn't for kids. It's prestige, it's violent, 750 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,799 Speaker 3: you know, So I'm really interested to see if they 751 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 3: can keep that up. So far, as you know, I'm 752 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 3: an Echo fan, and I actually love what they've done 753 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 3: with Wilson Fisk so far. I love the kind of 754 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 3: acceleration of his super heroic powers, which we definitely do 755 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,439 Speaker 3: get touches of in the Netflix series in a way 756 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 3: that I hadn't really remembered, Like he's often throwing people 757 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 3: through doors and doing things that kind of hint to that. 758 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 3: I really like how they have built in the father 759 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,319 Speaker 3: daughter relationship with Echo, whether we're going to see her again, 760 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 3: whether we're going to see Shee Hulk, even though I 761 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 3: loved that relationship we had with Matt. I think I'll 762 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 3: be fine if they don't come in because those shows 763 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 3: still exist. But I love what they've done with Wilson Fisk. 764 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 3: I feel like they understand how to balance and use 765 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 3: the MCU. Like in the MCU, it feels believable that 766 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 3: Wilson Fisk could be shot in the head and still survive, 767 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 3: right because the MCU is this superheroic blockbust that anything 768 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 3: can happen. Well in the more grounded dead of a 769 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 3: series that would seem a little bit harder to play. 770 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 3: So I think they understand what the MCU kind of 771 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 3: gives them storytelling wise, and I'm excited to see how 772 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,800 Speaker 3: the rest of the characters kind of fall into that. 773 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 3: Also just feels crazy to me that we're so close 774 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 3: to this show coming out like this year. It's really 775 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 3: a zooming past. 776 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: Daredevil Born Again premieeres March fourth on Disney Plus, and 777 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: of course we will be covering it on Wednesday. Our 778 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: recap of sevenths two o seven will will hit your 779 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: ear holes. And then Thursday, We're Born Again as the 780 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,640 Speaker 1: new Dark Devil series debuts with two episodes episodes one 781 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,800 Speaker 1: and two March fourth, Disney Plus and come back on Saturday, 782 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,879 Speaker 1: where we're going to recap the week's news. That said, 783 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 1: for this episode, thanks for let's. 784 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,879 Speaker 3: Me Bye Red, Bye see you, Little Red, See you later. 785 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: Red x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and 786 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. 787 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman. 788 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,320 Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar. 789 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,280 Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean, Jonathan. 790 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 1: And Bay wag Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, 791 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: with alternate theme songs by Aaron Kaufman. 792 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and 793 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,280 Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator,