1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Since when did a walk 2 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: in the park turn into a grizzly murder scene? That's 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: my question. What happened to Katie Janis? I mean, I 4 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: see Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being 5 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series XM one eleven. 6 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this Elina No 7 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: on one to operate A seven off the emergency sir, 8 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: are you we're freaking to my golf? That's first? Is 9 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: like a rider help somebody? Yes? Three? All right, yes, man, 10 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: I'll go spend out for you. Oh my god, all right? 11 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: Can I get it all? I get your name. You 12 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: are hearing part of a nine one one call where 13 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: Emma Clark calls nine one one to say she is 14 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: at the entrance of Piedmont Park looking for her friend's 15 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: phone because she couldn't find her. And then she does 16 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: find her and she's dead. How does a simple walk 17 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: in the park with your dog end up with you murdered, 18 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: literally butchered and one of the most famous parks in 19 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: the city. Again, this is Crime Stories that I want 20 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. I'm wondering what 21 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: is the delay we are hearing that this case, this 22 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: gruesome murder of a beautiful young woman, her world before her, 23 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: has turned into a quote for forensics investigation. Now what 24 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: does that mean? With me? And i'll star panel to 25 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. But before 26 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: we start, I want you to hear a little more 27 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: of that nine one one call. Listen, all right, you're 28 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: the inswerance like ry, please did you see that's my girlfriend? Yes? 29 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: All right? Please? Oh my god. You seems like she's 30 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: said dead like it's so far above the call radio. Okay, please, 31 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: you're hearing more of the nine one one call with me, 32 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: an all star panel makes sense of what we know 33 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: right now. But first of all, to Cheryl McCollum, uh, 34 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute. You 35 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: can find her at Coldcase crimes dot org. Who is 36 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: Emma Clark calling in on the phone? That is victim's partner, correct, 37 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: you're right, long time partner and roommate. So she had 38 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: also seen Katie right before the murders occurred, maybe forty 39 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: minutes before. Katie had stopped by to see her at 40 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: work and let her see their dog, Bowie, and she 41 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: was going to finish her walk while you know, Emma 42 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: finished her shift at work. So let me understand, Sharyl McCollum, 43 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: Katy was seen by her roommate just forty minutes before 44 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: she has found butchered, literally butchered in Piedmont Park. Correct 45 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: Emma worked as a bartender and a local bar right 46 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: there at the park. So Katie would walk Bowie to 47 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: the establishment and they would visit for a few minutes 48 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: while she was on break, and then while she finished 49 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: walking the dog another twenty or thirty minutes, Emma would 50 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: finish up her shift and they would meet back home 51 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: at the same time. Well, on this particular night, when 52 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: Emma got home, Katie and Bowie weren't there, so immediately, 53 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: you know how you would do. You would call and say, hey, 54 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: you know, where are you at? There was no answer 55 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: to the cell phone. Then she started texting her hey 56 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: where are you and steal no response from Katie at all. 57 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: Also with us Alexis Arrestchak Climb online dot com investigative 58 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: reporter Alexis I lived on the corner of Piedmont Park 59 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: for years and years and years when I was prosecuting 60 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: an inner city Atlanta, and it's beautiful, It's huge. It's 61 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: the centerpiece of downtown. It's like Central Park is to Manhattan, 62 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: Piedmont Park is to Atlanta. What can you tell us 63 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: about the area where she was? Alexis When Emma first 64 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: entered the park looking for her, she found the dog first. 65 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: But this is there's a street that goes through it, 66 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: so she thought that the dog had perhaps been hit 67 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: by a car and so. But the dog was off 68 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: to the side. But then it was about one hundred 69 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: feet away or so is where she saw Katie and 70 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: she it was a leafy grass I'm sorry, not leafy, 71 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: but but a grassy area. Petmont Park is. You know, 72 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: there's lots of trees, there's parks, there's paths to walk through, 73 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: like any park. But there's also a road that goes 74 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: through it. You know, it's a huge jogging area. It's wooded, 75 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: it's hundreds of acres. It's beautiful. It's surrounded by streets 76 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: and red lights. Cheryl McCollum, I'm thinking about it. You've 77 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: got volleyball being played out there. People play football, they 78 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: play you know, they throw frisbees, people walk their dogs. 79 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,799 Speaker 1: It's a huge dog walking place because everybody in midtown, 80 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: they're all mostly in apartments or old Antebellum homes that 81 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: have been divided into apartments, so they don't have a 82 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: lot of place to space to walk their dog, so 83 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: they go to Petmont Park, which is why I believe 84 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: Katie was there, And interesting where she was was very 85 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: close to a straight intersection with a red light. Take 86 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at eleven Alive. They are 87 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: describing this as a gruesome scene. We did just see 88 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: the medical examiner leave this area of Petemont Park. Some 89 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: police were still here right now. This is the corner 90 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: of tenth Street and Charles Allen Drive, right at the 91 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: entrance into the park. Here. Police say she was found 92 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: about one hundred yards into the park. We're told another 93 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: person in the park found the body and called nine 94 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: to one around one o'clock this morning. This is what 95 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: the scene has looked like all morning. APD has this 96 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: part of the park blocked off and say they will 97 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: be here for several more hours. Investigators say they're hoping 98 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: once the sun comes up they'll be able to canvas 99 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: the scene better, but they are describing this again as 100 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: a very gruesome scene. Straight out to Dale Carson, high 101 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: profile lawyer joining us out of Jackson vill, a former 102 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: FBI agent, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. You can find 103 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: him at Dale Carson Law dot com. Dale explained why 104 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: it was so difficult to process this scene outdoors at night, 105 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: people milling by. Well, you've just identified the primary reason, 106 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: which is it's night, people are milling by. You have 107 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: no idea where the actual crime scene is. You know 108 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: where the body came to final rest, but you don't 109 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: know where the assault actually occurred. And the only way 110 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: to determine that is to find out where the blood 111 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: began and ended. And so you don't know that. You've 112 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: got to cordon off the entire area and wait for 113 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: sunlight to appear so you can actually find out where 114 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: the crime scene is. It may be really broad instead 115 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: of very narrow. And not only that, Cheryl McCullum, you 116 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: have the issue of contamination because people are milling around. 117 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: It's in a public spot, there's dirt, grass, other people 118 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: have been in there trumping around. How do you know 119 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: any DNA you might find it's connected to this case. 120 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: I remember a triple homicide I had, Cheryl, and the 121 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: murder location was on a playground at about eleven pm 122 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: on a Sunday night in a housing project, and there 123 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: had been literally hundreds of people in the playground that day. 124 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: There were hypodermic needles out there, glassing bags, used condoms, 125 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: broken glass. Very difficult crime scene to process, and not 126 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: that I think that there are glassing bags and hypodermic 127 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: needles here, but still you have a lot of challenges 128 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: and processing this scene you do. And you also have 129 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: to keep in mind that Emma and checked her pulse 130 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, and so of course by 131 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: her checking her pulse, her DNA may be on her. 132 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: To your point, because you and I have worked many 133 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: many scenes where a victim could have fallen on something 134 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: that wasn't associated with this crime at all. But in 135 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: the beginning we don't know that. So any cigarette, but 136 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: any hypodermic needle, anything that's in or around that scene, 137 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: we're obviously going to take it. And then later you know, 138 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: piece together what's included in this particular event and what's 139 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: not gonna make it very very hard. And again I've 140 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: talked about this before. Do you remember, of course, Ryl 141 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: McCollum the Fulton County Courthouse shooting where there were multiple 142 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: victims absolutely by a perp who overpowered a female sheriff 143 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: on the elevator even though she was armed, came out, 144 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: guns a blazing gun down. Our friend that we used 145 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: to play softball with. Judge Rowland bonds, a sheriff, a 146 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: beloved court reporter, goes on and on, and I remember, 147 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: as you do, our friend Al Dixon, who worked with 148 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: me in the DA's office processing the scene of his 149 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: friends right murders, and how long that took. And just 150 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: think that was an enclosed area that was in a courtroom. Now, 151 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: can't imagine that being out in the open, trying to 152 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: get blood off the dirt and off the grass. It's 153 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: not easy. Now, earlier you heard Alexis Terreschuk state that 154 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: the friend Emma came up and saw there, saw the 155 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: dog lying there, and thought the dog had been run 156 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: over and hit because there is a street surrounding the 157 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: park all the way around it. Take a listen to 158 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: our friend, Haley Mason, CBS forty six. Now we know 159 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: why she thought that. Atlanta Police are asking you to 160 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: take a close look at this picture of Katherine John's. 161 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: She was last seen walking her dog late last night 162 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: near Piedmont Park in Midtown. We're just asking any one 163 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: if they saw her dnything to call nine one one, 164 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: call Craft Stop presention. Shortly after one o'clock this morning, 165 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: she was found brutally stabbed to death inside Peedemont Park. 166 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: Her dog was also killed. Obviously, I'm extremely saddened, shaken up. 167 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: I mean, being in the same age range, living in 168 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: the same area, also having a dog. Several joggers today 169 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: telling me they're on edge, and one answers, I really 170 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: hope that they find the person and you know, figure 171 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: out of security around the area. All of us would 172 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: like to know is this a random act? Was there 173 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: you know, as someone targeted? I mean, it would just 174 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: help this for us to have peace of mind and 175 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: have an idea of the threat level and the safety 176 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace, what does it mean that 177 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: no other similar attack has occurred since Katie Janis was 178 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: murdered in such a horrible way. I mean, let me 179 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: ask you, Alexis to Rustchuck, how many times was she 180 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: stabbed or do we even know? According to the autopsy 181 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: report that The Corner published, it was she was stabbed 182 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: over fifty times, multiple times in her head and her 183 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: chest and her torso just over fifty times in and 184 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: out all it, you know, in her back and in 185 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: the front of her chest, in her head. And there 186 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: have been some reports that, in fact that there was 187 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: a word carved in her chest and it was and 188 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: it spelled out fat fat. I'm just taking that in well. 189 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: I find that hard to leave, Nancy, this is del Carson. 190 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: I find that really hard to believe. To begin with. 191 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: Clearly someone had an extreme animous toward the victim, because 192 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: facial strikes and the number of stabs tends to indicate 193 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: a familiarity and a hostility toward that individual. And if 194 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: stab fifty times, you could spell almost anything out on 195 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: the body. It depends on how deep the cuts were 196 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: as to whether or not the individual had the intent 197 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: to spell out a word or whether this is just hyperbole. 198 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: You know. Doctor Kendall Crowns is joining me, the chief 199 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: medical Examiner for Tarrance County. That's Fort Worth Lecturer, University 200 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: Texas and Texas A and M University of Texas Medical Branch, 201 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. Now, 202 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: before I go to you with the question, doctor Crowns, 203 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: let me clarify, Dell Carson, I understand you are a JD, 204 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: not an MD. Is that correct? That would be entirely correct. Okay, 205 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: Not that I would ever say zip it, shut your 206 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: piehole or keep your thoughts to yourself when it comes 207 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: to medical opinions, because I would never be so rude. 208 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 1: But doctor Kendall Crowns, you have Dell Carson telling you 209 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: that the medical examiner must be wrong in the mentioning 210 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: of fat being carved on her chest. Although I think 211 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: del Carson actually has a really good point with fifty 212 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: stab wounds to the chest and the face, which is 213 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: really bizarre. I'm going to bring in our shrink gear 214 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: and stark on that. How could you make that out 215 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: that someone had actually etched the word fat fat onto 216 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: her chest? How could you make that out amainst so 217 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: many stab wounds? The point del Carson made is well taken, 218 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: But is there a way to decide for that, doctor Crowns. 219 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: So my opinion would be the fact that, yes, I mean, 220 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: I'll due respect of mister Carson, the amount of stab 221 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: wounds could be, it could be something personal, or it 222 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: could be associated with what I can only see with 223 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: the multiple over kill cases is methamphetamine. I usually run 224 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: someone's on methamphetamine. They do a lot of crazy stuff. 225 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: As far as the spelling out of words, it would 226 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: be hard to stab someone in enough of a pattern 227 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: to make it look like someone like you spelled out 228 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: of work. The description of the injuries on the body 229 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: to the abdomen where the fat is spelled out are 230 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: large in size wounds or slashing wounds, and there's there's 231 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: not a lot of other injuries in the area. So 232 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: to me, I've seen words spelled out on bodies before, 233 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: and it's usually well, I'm going to say, it's always purposeful, 234 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: And I wouldn't say you could get enough of a 235 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: randomness to spell out fat on a body if you 236 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: were just splashing the person up. But to me, it's 237 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: probably purposeful because the inside wounds themselves intersecting like they 238 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: are making an F and A and a T. I 239 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: think that is something purposeful. According to what we have learned, 240 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: Chryl McCollum, she had wounds in the shape of the 241 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: letter's FA, A medal and T. FA is on the 242 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: middle and right side of her lower chest, an upper 243 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: abdomen and T is on the left side of her 244 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: lower chest. Correct, Nancy, you and I have seen thousands 245 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: of stab injuries, thousands. Never have you thought you saw 246 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: a word that wasn't deliberate. Never, So when you're talking 247 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: about stabbing somebody fifty times in the face, in the neck, 248 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: in the torso, in her hands. She had defensive wounds 249 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: as well. But the most critical for me about those 250 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: three letters is she was hemburging when it happened. She 251 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: was bleeding, which means she was still alive when that occurred. 252 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: I like to talk to you Del Carson for a reason. 253 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: Very often I agree with you, and you have insights indicases. 254 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: Especially remember when you were commenting on the Gabby Petito 255 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: Brian laundry case. He came out as incredible ideas that 256 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: nobody else had had. But the way you're talking about this, 257 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: I've got to disagree with you because you're making it 258 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: seem as if you know how you'll look up at 259 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: the sky and you go, oh, that looks like a 260 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: French poodle. You're saying there's no way that a medical 261 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: examiner could look at all of these stab wounds and 262 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: see the letter's fat. You're acting like, oh, that is 263 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: a random pattern amidst all these stab wounds. They just 264 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: happen to spell the word fat, and I disagree with you. 265 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: I mean they clearly could see f A and then 266 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: over here t and as Cheryl McCollum correctly points out, 267 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: this was done while she's still bleeding, which means she 268 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: was alive. Well, I don't have access to the photographs. 269 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: I don't have access to the depth of those cuts 270 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: that allegedly spill up. And clearly, if that's the case 271 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: and she was obese, then somebody has some direct personal knowledge. 272 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: I'm looking right at her. This is the weird part, 273 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: Dell Carson. I'm looking at her right now. I'm looking 274 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: at the particular picture of her entering Pedemont Park holding 275 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: the dog, which I'm going to circle back home because 276 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: this person stabbed the dog dead too. That's why Emma 277 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: thought the dog had been run over when she was 278 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: trying to retrace her roommates steps. I'm looking at her 279 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: walking into the park with a dog on a leash 280 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: in her left hand. She's not fat. She looks perfectly normal. 281 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: She weighed one hundred according to the autopsy. Yeah, she 282 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: doesn't look fat at all. You're making the assumption that 283 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: it's they're calling her fat. It could be also initials, 284 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 1: like someone saying their words. Joys have to consider that 285 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: as well. But then you would expect the repetition of 286 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: this at some other point and a connection between those 287 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: killings and this one, And we don't have that scesarily, 288 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: not that scessarily. Maybe this is the first one or 289 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: maybe this one in particularly felt like where she felt 290 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: like signing. It hasn't no rhyme or reason, especially if 291 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: you throw invest them. So to me, there's never any 292 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: rhyme or reason to anything else. Yeah, I want to 293 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: support that, Nancy. Okay, Yeah, Karen Stark, I was going 294 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: to circle back to you about why did you have 295 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: to stab the dog dead? Too? But I mean Carson 296 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: and Crowns have a really good point with me. Is 297 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: Karen Start New York Psychologists. You can find her at 298 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: Karen starting dot com. Karen with the Sea, renowned in 299 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: her field, joining us from Manhattan, Karen Start, let's start 300 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: with forget about the dog for right now. We'll circle 301 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: back to the dog. But what what is he saying, 302 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: Karen Start? The killer wanted to sign his work like 303 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: what Banksy? I don't think these are anybody's initials, Although 304 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: none of it makes sense Nancy, which really leads me 305 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: to believe that that analysis of someone on drugs. I 306 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: don't know if I agree with you guys about drugs. 307 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: Jackie's saying no, and I say no, because if you're 308 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: that high on math, how are you going to chase 309 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: down a dog? Number one? But that said, what about 310 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: Jody Aris Travis Alexander's stabbed twenty eight times I believe 311 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: and shot in the head. She wasn't on math. She's 312 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: just mean, pure evil. So I don't know that this 313 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: necessarily means somebody's on math. I normally would agree with you, 314 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: because that is real anger when you see somebody who's 315 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: stabbing like that. But there's there's an aspect of this 316 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: that sounds like somebody was randomly. It doesn't sound to 317 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: me personally that they were after her. Why would they 318 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: want to kill the dog The dog's on a leash. 319 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I just get this image of 320 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: someone out of their mind furiously like fabbing. Okay, so 321 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: this is a math freak. How can they haven't been 322 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,479 Speaker 1: caught yet? I mean, they're not that smart. They call 323 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: them meth heads for a reason. They're out of their minds. 324 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: How can a meth head elude the cops jump in, Carson, 325 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: I agree with you, this is nobody's initials. I disagree 326 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: with you that it's not really the word. The letter's fat. 327 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: Go ahead. There are two points here. One is that 328 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: there seemed to be a cutting of the woman before 329 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 1: all of this as a body mutilation, which indicates that 330 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: she has some extreme trauma, perhaps in her past, and 331 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: that may be connected to the killer. So when you 332 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: find that on a victim's body and you find old scarring, 333 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: that's a clue. And the second thing about this is 334 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: both her breasts were cut. That's another indication of a 335 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: sexual involvement or an individual who has some bent towards 336 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: sexual proclivities an evil way. Okay, Alexis, trust Chuck. I 337 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: know you said torso, but you didn't specifically say she 338 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: was stabbed in her breasts, well her breasts, her in 339 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: her torso. So, Yes, she was, she was. Okay, here's 340 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: another one to me, MD. I'm just gonna jump on 341 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: the bandwagon too and start prescribing medication. But you know what, Alexis, 342 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: You're right, You're absolutely right, You're you're correct. So to 343 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns, Alexis and del Carson, are right, she 344 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: stabbed everywhere. Would you say that the stab was to 345 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: the breast breasts indicate some type of a sexual sadism? 346 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: It could the prom is with all the amount of sabbs. 347 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: It's just part of a cluster of finding Looking at 348 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: what the descriptions are one to three, three and one 349 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: in size to the left breast and five sixteen wounded 350 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: the ariiola of the left breath. So it's you've got 351 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: some fairly small wools. It's not like they were cutting 352 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: the breasts off. So usually when I've seen sexual mutilation 353 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: they either cutty ariolas or nipples off as well as 354 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: cutting the entire breasts off. To me, this just looks 355 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: like it's part of the cluster of the slashings and 356 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: stabbing that's going on. Nancy, I got I gotta jump 357 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: in what I feel free to jump? I gotta ask 358 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: Crows a question you know that just rolled off the 359 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: tip of your tongue, about how cutting off breasts and 360 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: cutting off nipples do you when you go home? What 361 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: do you do? I'm just curious, how do you get 362 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: all that out of your head? Or do you? Well? 363 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: I go home my garden. I swim. I spend time 364 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: with my family, so you don't. I try not. I 365 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: put it in a box and just go home and 366 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: don't think about it. Yeah, I guess you have to. 367 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: You know, I've had people have asked me the same thing, 368 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: and it really helped me when I had John, David 369 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: and Lucy, the twins, because I don't want them to 370 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: have a mom that's constantly thinking about murder. And I 371 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: would say, that's probably and you know me, well, Cheryl 372 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: and Karen and Alexis, that's probably the first time I 373 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: ever turned it off when I would come home like 374 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: Crowns and saying it's when I finally had the twins, 375 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: who I thought deserved a more normal mommy. Okay, there go. 376 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: I was just curious Kendall Crowns because the way you 377 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: said that, it was like, nah, he used to cut 378 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: off the breast with a nipple, like it was no 379 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: big deal. But okay, Cheryl McCollum jump in before I 380 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: have to analyze Kendall Crowns. Okay, I'm not qualified for that. 381 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: Go ahead. Well, I think this was something we can 382 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: all agree with. This was overkill. So you're talking about 383 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: a killer that took extra time. That had nothing to 384 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: do with murder. This was not all about killing her. 385 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: Could have just cut her throat like he did the 386 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: dog and move home. What he did was a necessary 387 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: to complete a murder. When you talk about the physical torture, 388 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: the psychological torture, the humiliation, all of that plays a part. 389 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: If you've got somebody and you have mutilated their breast 390 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: even slightly, you've pulled their pants down, you've written something 391 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: on their body, all of that is to humiliate her. 392 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: Were her pants pulled down? Yes, that is to me 393 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: not a meth head. Guys. Take a listen to Zach 394 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: Summer's CBS forty six. Atlanta Police were called to the 395 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: park in Midtown around one am and found the body 396 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: of Katherine Janes. Her dog was also killed. One of 397 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: the last known sightings of the two was near tenth 398 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: and Piedmont. You know, it's not surprising that she would 399 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: have been out. Clayton Skinner was a regular customer of Janesis. 400 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: She was a bartender at Campanola. Skinner says most people 401 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: who knew her called her Katie. She was a genuinely shy, 402 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: sweet kind person. Skinner, who also lives in the town, 403 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: says he often saw Janice walking her dog in the neighborhood. 404 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: She routinely walked her dog later at night because she 405 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: typically worked nightshift routine routine, she often walked her dog 406 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: at night when she got off from bartending same route. 407 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: And we know that's a big no no in the 408 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: crime world. And I'm guilty of it too. I very 409 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: often jog or walk the same route. So anyone that 410 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,479 Speaker 1: had been watching her from the bar knew what she 411 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: was going to do if they had watched her even 412 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: one or two nights before, which, as a whole another 413 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: layer of complexity as to who the killer is. Now, 414 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: you heard Cheryl com McCollum say, hey, and I think 415 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: she's right. I do not think this is the work 416 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: of a woman. Now, of course you have an aberration 417 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: and killer such as Jody Arius and others that kill 418 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: in a way that is traditionally statistically eight male homicide. 419 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: This case seems to be the work of a man. 420 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: Now you may be wondering how was her body located? 421 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: Take a listen to Michael sidon w sb TV. This 422 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: Crime Stoppers poster shows Katie walking with Bowie near Piedmont Park, 423 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: but when she didn't return home. Emma became worried, so 424 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: she pinned Katie's phone, which led her to the park. 425 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: We don't know how long Katie layed here. We don't 426 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: know that, but the Emma came up at twelve fifty seven. 427 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: Right now, APD detectives are working around the clock, interviewing 428 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: dozens of neighbors and reviewing hours of surveillance footage. This 429 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: heinous crime has left an entire community on edge as 430 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: police continue to search for a murderer. The fact that 431 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: we don't even know who did this and it's just sad, 432 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,719 Speaker 1: it's sick in it said. The weeks have turned into months. 433 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: The months have now turned into nearly a year. July 434 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: twenty eight will be one year without this case being soft. 435 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: I find that really difficult to understand. With the likelihood 436 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: of DNA there Alexa's Terreschuk. Do we know whether the 437 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: dog who was then murdered bent the assailant. Is there 438 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: any chance there was DNA in the dog's mouth? They 439 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: had anticipated that there would be DNA, but they have 440 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: The police have not released any information about DNA that 441 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: they obtained on the scene at all. They have not 442 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: said that who that they're looking for, you know, a 443 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: male based on the DNA well been based on the DNA. 444 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,479 Speaker 1: They have not released any details about it, but for 445 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: sure the dog would have done that. This is a 446 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: pit bull that they are not inherently that, but this 447 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: dog would have protected its owner. And she was found, 448 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: you know, one hundred feet away, so the dogs certainly 449 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: could have been hurt first, and then she was dragged away. Yeah, 450 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 1: the scenario, I mean, I think they would have been 451 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: able to tell if she had been dragged. Del Carson 452 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: agree or disagree. We saw that with Gabby Potito. I 453 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: agree with that entirely. I mean, the distance is important, 454 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: but dogs are much more mobile than human beings. The 455 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: other thing that really is interesting to point out is 456 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: that in night work, generally you're gonna have some DNA exchange, 457 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: but finding that DNA on a body that's spend staff 458 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: numerous times is difficult. It takes time, and there's no 459 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: reason to release that DNA evidence as they try to 460 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: match the alleles with other individuals exactly time stories with 461 00:29:51,880 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, it's coming up on a year and 462 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: no resolution in the murder of this lovely young woman. 463 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: Katie Janie take a listen to Hailey Mason, CBS forty six. 464 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: Just minutes before this nine one one call was made. Yes, yes, oh. 465 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: Police say people were inside Pete Muntpark at least six 466 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: possible witnesses. Police pointing out on surveillance video, releasing these 467 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: new higher quality photos today. Police honing in on talking 468 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: to this possible witness who ran by the front of 469 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: the park closest to the time the gruesome murder was 470 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: discovered just yards away, seemingly unaware. We broke down the 471 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: timeline showing the jogger near the park entrance at twelve 472 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: forty six am, less than twenty five minutes before the 473 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: body was discovered and police were called at one eleven 474 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: am last Wednesday. Police telling me they can't confirm if 475 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: the jogging man was a witness to the actual crime 476 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,479 Speaker 1: at this time, but they tell us he came forward 477 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: and has been cooperating. He is not a suspect. Okay, 478 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: Alexis Terstuk, what can you tell me about that? Well, 479 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: the police have at this point in the year of 480 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: this investigation, where nobody has been arrested. They have ruled 481 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: out so far all everybody that they originally thought was 482 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: a person of interest, they have said, is not so. 483 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: Even though they're saying they have, they're focusing on technology. 484 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: They don't appear to have to know who killed her 485 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: at all. Okay, guys, take a listen to our cut 486 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: twenty five. This is Ron James at eleven. Alt're hearing 487 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: from a family member of Katie john Is, just hours 488 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: after and autopsy revealed the final brutal moments of her life. 489 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: The report finds Katie just forty years old, with stab 490 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: more than fifty times and left to die along with 491 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: her dog in Piedmont Park in July. Her death now 492 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: ruled a homicide. The report says the letters fat were 493 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: carved into her chest. The father of Katie's partner, Emma, 494 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: tells he love and Alive exclusively. He's devastated to read 495 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: just how brutal and extensive her injuries were. It's just 496 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: heartbreaking to know that that's what she suffered through. Very 497 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: a very angry, disturbed person is the only thing I 498 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: could think of that could do so much damage to 499 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: someone so far Nowhere rest have been made in more 500 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: than one hundred days since Katie is killing. Her family 501 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: now worried her killer is out there. Somewhere and the 502 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: case may be going cold. There is still a killer 503 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: on the loose that could do this any nut of 504 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: the week in the city of Atlanta, and they have 505 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: they don't have any idea who it is. Not what 506 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: we want to hear. The awful truth is, there doesn't 507 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: seem to be any resolution on the horizon. The city 508 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: of Atlanta, particularly midtown Atlanta at Piedmont Park, being terrorized 509 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: as the one year anniversary approaches of the murder of 510 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: Katie Jennis. Now we have learned one thing. Take a 511 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: listen to our cut twenty seven from Fox five. The 512 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: initial reaction of the dog. It was a pit bull. 513 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: Now that's a very loyal, protective breed of dog. To 514 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: not have the dog engage in some type of protective 515 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: behavior of its master is interesting and it certainly moves 516 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: us away from the stranger on stranger theory of the case. 517 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: There's some credence to the idea that this was that 518 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: this crime was committed by somebody who's familiar with the 519 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: deceased and familiar with the deceased dog. The act was 520 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: what police call and overkill. When you see multiple stab wouts, 521 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: that takes time and that takes emotion because it's beyond 522 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: just killing the person. It is a desire to inflict 523 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: as much possible damage. Leads us to believe that the 524 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: individual who committed the crime knew the victim. Okay, Karen, 525 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: start joining me Renown New York Psychology. Karen, what do 526 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: you make of that? Well, I don't know if I 527 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: agree anthy and normally I really would. But somebody taking 528 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: a chance like that in a park. I realized it 529 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: was nighttime, but there was that guy, for instance, who 530 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: was driving. Anybody could have come across that scene. There's 531 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: just this feeling for me, and I could be wrong, 532 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: but my gut tells me that there was something about 533 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: this that was unplanned. It it seems so random and 534 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: carving the word I just it just doesn't I don't know, 535 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: unless there's something that we don't understand about her pass. Well, 536 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: I've got another question, del Carson. If I were going 537 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: to murder someone with a knife, which is a whole 538 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: different thing that from shooting someone at a distance, I 539 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: certainly wouldn't pick someone with a pitbull, absolutely not. And 540 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting that in this particular case, the 541 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: individual White Frankly must have known who this woman was 542 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: to show an exhibit such anger in over killing as 543 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: they did, and of course this is the act of 544 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: an organized not a disorganized, but an organized killer. And 545 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: disorganized killer would leave plenty of evidence. We would know 546 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: who this is. This person is organized, and if I 547 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: had to guess, I would say, pardon me that it's 548 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: somebody in her history, going way back to the time 549 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: that she was younger and was abused by someone. If 550 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,959 Speaker 1: that is in fact the case, that's really reaching back. 551 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: What about the theory alexis tors shut that someone knew 552 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: her from that bar. They thought they knew her anyway, 553 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: They knew her enough to know she goes jogging or 554 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: walking the dog every night after she gets off where 555 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: she would be where her route was, and cared enough 556 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: to kill the dog. That suggested me that they did 557 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: know her. They could have known her. Yeah, but the 558 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 1: dog had to be disabled first, so if a crazy 559 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: person just ran up to her, they would grab the 560 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: dog first. You don't know if the dog was on 561 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: a leash or not. Some dogs are really well behaved 562 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: dogs and don't need a leash. Other dogs, you know, 563 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: or you know, she could let them off the leash 564 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: when she goes into the park, but keep them on 565 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: the leash on the street. The thing is, so she 566 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: actually didn't do the same route every single night. That's 567 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: what her girlfriend said. She said, you know, she would 568 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: just sort of walk wherever she fell a walking. There 569 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: was no plan. Ever, She's walked this way, she walked 570 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: that way. So it perhaps was not somebody, although they 571 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: could have followed her from the bar that night, but 572 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't a set route that she ever did. The 573 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: thing about Midtown is and where they live, they'll live 574 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 1: close to the park. If you are walking through that area. 575 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: As one of my regular jogging routes, you can go 576 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 1: up Fourth Street as opposed to Fifth Straight or are 577 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: Gone versus Penn. Let me compare it to a park 578 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: in Washington. Remember how Lafayette designed a city of Washington, 579 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: and all the roads lead to the center here, all 580 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: the many many of the streets in Midtown lead to 581 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: the park. So whether she went down Fourth or fifth, 582 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: Penn or are Gone, She's going to end up in 583 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: the park area no matter what. I've got a theory. 584 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: What do you think about this? Del Carson? If it 585 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: is a random person and they have a knife, and 586 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: I'm going back to the meth head idea, what if 587 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: she was not the actual first target. What if the 588 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: dog could have lunged at someone that was already off kilter, 589 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: and they attack the dog and then attack her. I mean, 590 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: we have no idea what happened. That's an interesting theory 591 00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: and quite possible because any competent owner, and she's been 592 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: documented as a real dog person, is someone attacked the 593 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: dog in response to the dog rushing at them, she 594 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: would almost naturally try to protect the dog, as you 595 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: perhaps would one of your children. Right now, we seem 596 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: to know less than we did at the very beginning, 597 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: the one year mark approaching of this young woman's brutal murder. 598 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: If you have information, or think you have information, please 599 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: dial four zero four five four six forty two thirty 600 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: five repeat four zero four five four six four two 601 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: three five. We wait as justice unfoals. Nancy Grace comes story, 602 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,439 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend