WEBVTT - This Week in Crypto: Binance Mishandles Collateral, More Crypto Layoffs 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:05.840 This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg Ihad podcast, and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News. 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:29.400 It's Friday, January. One of the main questions we're asking 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.640 this week, and frankly one of the questions we ask 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:35.440 every week in our reporting, is what's the latest with Binance, 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.920 the world's largest crypto exchange by volume and by pretty 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.440 much any other metric you can decide. As we reported 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.000 this week in a story written by my colleague Emilye, 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:49.720 Nicole Finance acknowledge that it had been mistakenly mixing the 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.360 collateral it holds for some of its tokens in the 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.960 same digital wallets as other types of funds. Now, this 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:59.600 might sound technical and confusing, but we're going to talk 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:04.160 about why it's important and why this kind of operational 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.640 issue is a challenge for these exchanges at a point 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:12.000 when both regulators and customers are paying really close attention 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.199 to how this industry is managing its transparency. We'll also 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.560 talk about the layoffs that continue to happen in crypto 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.360 and how that relates to what's happening elsewhere in tech 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.560 and in finance and finally, we'll talk a little bit 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.959 about the latest in regulation. I'm delighted to be in 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.520 London this week, joined by my colleagues and Arera Bloomberg, 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.360 Senior Editor. I am hearing actually from head Hunters that 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.160 it's not as bad as other years, because there are 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.600 still some firms that are still hiring, maybe the ones 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.360 that came in and were a bit more level headed. 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.720 And by reporter to Justina Lee, it's just looking at 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:48.240 the correlation between the SMP five hundred and bitcoin and 0:01:48.280 --> 0:02:01.800 it's still very much positive. Anna, Justina, pleasure to have 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.040 you joined me in the London studio. Yeah, thanks for 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:07.600 coming and having us. It's always a pleasure. Thank you 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.200 for having us. Now. I have this theory that every 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:14.119 time I travel, something bad happens in crypto, and that's 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.000 held up remarkably well. And you know, so, while I 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.480 was in transit over the past like week and a half, 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:26.000 we had Genesis file for bankruptcy Genesis filing in the 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.440 Southern District of New York. This only includes the lending 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.480 side of that business. The spot trading and derivative side 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.200 was not included in this chapter eleven. We had a 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:40.320 ton of reporting from our colleague Emily Nicole on various 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:47.040 confusing situations that relate to Binances, kind of management of 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.320 certain wallets and the tokens in those wallets. Let's have 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.400 look at Finances. It acknowledges that it mistakenly kept some 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.640 users unstored with its own reserves. It's when questioned buyers 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:00.320 at Bloomberg News, Binance issue the statement admitting collateral sets 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:04.480 were moved into the wallet in error. I know you 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.960 edited some of the Genesis stories, but also some of 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.160 the Binance stories. I'm going to ask you to just say, 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.480 in the least technical way possible, what's been going on. 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.240 So with Finance, I'll give you the latest update that 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.680 we had. Basically, Binance issues some tokens which are versions 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.840 of existing tokens. Because what happens with blockchain is that 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.119 if you issue a token on a different type of chain, 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.359 then that can run or work on another chip. Somebody 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:32.800 is used a token and it runs on ethereum, they 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.600 can't easily just like also have that work on say 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.400 the Solana blockchain exactly. And that's a big problem if 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.240 you want to have an interconnected system, and Finance has 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.880 its own chain, so they issue their own versions of tokens, 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.280 and the rule is that for every token the issue, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.400 they should have the equivalent of the original token stored somewhere, right, 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:51.160 so they're not just making money out of thin air 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.520 or crypto tokens out of thin air. So um. What 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.680 Emily sort of found out, or that she was told 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.240 by a research firm was that they looked at sort 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.880 of the wallets where Binance keeps the reserves and they 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.400 published them and they had a lot more of tokens 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.240 than what they'd issued. So that made it seem that 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.120 the tokens, the tokens that are supposed to be reserves 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.280 for the ones that issues, were stored in the same 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.320 place as funds that customers put in on the exchange, 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.440 which is bad, which is not ideal because then there's 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:23.680 no way you know what is what, and then if 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:25.440 you're a customer you want to withdraw or if you 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.000 you know, you don't know what's where um or at 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.240 a minimum, it's messy, and also it doesn't follow the 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.880 guidelines that they themselves say they will do. So you know, 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.680 Emily flagged it to them after the other report came 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.920 out and Nance said yes, they admitted that there was 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.440 an error. It was a mistake, it was an operational 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.320 sort of issue, and they were fixing it. The same 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.920 analysts flag that there was less backing for another coin, 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.960 Binance his own version of another coin, a stable coin 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.000 that it issue that is issued by a bank called 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.040 Paxos that they all has Binance his brand name. So 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.120 again it's quite technical. What I guess for a listener, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.000 what you need to know is that you know, Binance 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.400 has been talking a lot about being transparent and you 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.479 know called out FDx for um not lots of there 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.760 are lots of things, yes, exactly, but it's also facing 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:17.000 operational challenges. Is a big, big little mistake if you want, 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.160 if you want, right, oh, we kept the tokens in 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:20.720 the same place. We're going to fix it. You know, 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.560 it's it's like five million worth of tokens we're talking 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:26.320 right here, and it's kept in a wallet that starts 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.760 sixteen billion worth of token. So it's just like a 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.800 bit confusing because if you don't segregate customer funds, I 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.240 guess they're both customer funds, but you have to distinguish 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.840 between customer funds and the exchange customer funds because they 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.840 backed tokens at you issue and just you know, this 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.400 is all happening in an environment in which, you know, 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.039 as Anna mentioned, Binance has been out ahead and calling 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.240 for transparency, but also pretty much everybody else who is 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.400 scrutinizing crypto right now is saying, you'll need to get 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.599 your act together as it relates to being able to 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.120 be very specific about what you hold, what the risks 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.040 of those exposures are, how you know what those risks are, 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.360 where customer funds are and so on. Yeah, that's right, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.039 And I think Finance really is at an interesting cross 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.760 road here because ftx is collapse has really left them 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.719 as the last giant standing. I mean, they grabbed a 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.640 lot of market share from f t X and now 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.960 they're by far the largest crypto exchange, and so they've 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.400 come under a lot of a lot more scrutiny. And 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.480 you could say, we haven't exactly seen that kind of 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.680 existential risk you know with f t X. You know, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.880 Finance would say they've survived you know, higher withdrawals over 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.520 the past few months, but kind of as Anna has 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.080 talked about, I mean, we have seen some cracks appear 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:43.760 under close scrutiny, you know, from the accounting for masters 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.560 kind of withdrawing from crypto at a stations in general, um, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.840 you know, after they did finances so called proof of 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.520 reserves report, and also these issues with um, you know, 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.240 those wallets and Anna we're talking about, And so I 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.280 think I think CS is definitely treading very carefully at 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:04.000 this time because none of what either of you are 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:09.120 saying is nefarious, right, Like, it's hard to keep on 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.720 top of wallets, accounting firms going to accounting firm and 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.880 they have they are entirely uh you know, they can 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.400 decide at any points that they want to be participating 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.520 in an ecosystem or they don't want to be participating 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.400 in an ecosystem. I want to go back to something 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.000 that you said about all this though, just you know, 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.400 which is that finance is by far, like by far 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:32.440 orders of magnitude, the most systemically important crypto exchange in 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.760 the world, and that is bringing much more scrutiny than 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.840 perhaps they are used to or necessarily want. And it's 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:47.600 also bringing regulatory attention. Where and how is binance regulated? Wow, 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.800 that's a great question. UM that probably had doesn't really 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.680 have an answer because their policy all along has been 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.680 too kind of be this global exchange on the Internet 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.040 that's not really based anywhere, that doesn't exactly have a 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:06.240 parent corporation. That's been kind of helpful in terms of, 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:11.000 you know, not really being beholden to any particular regulator. 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.920 But as regulatory scrutiny increase in recent years, they have 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.040 tried to change that by starting to set up local 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:23.560 entities that actually tried to register with regulators. But they've 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.880 kind of had a few setbacks in this area. Obviously, 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.480 sometimes it's the problem of regulators not exactly knowing what 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.520 to do with them, but sometimes it's also that finance 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.280 is not necessarily ready to make those compromises. And I 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.080 think it'll be interesting to see where we go from 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.960 here because at the same time rules are starting to tighten, 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.760 so will finance be able to step up and change 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:50.680 their internal operations fast enough to match that. I think 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:52.880 that's not clear just yet. And to your point about 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:54.880 rules starting to tighten, you know, just in the past 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:59.280 couple of days, we've seen, um, the French who love 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:03.960 voting on too votes to kind of tighten up in 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.200 in one perspective, some rules that are governing cryptocurrencies. But 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.000 on the other hand, you know, it's like less stringent 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.440 types of policy than some folks were expecting. And one 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:15.920 of the things that cz was talking about on Twitter 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.520 recently was this, you know, he was kind of endorsing 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.840 this idea of the need for a global aligned policy framework, 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.440 which has very much become like the talking point of 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.720 regulators everywhere. Right, But for what I'm hearing from you, 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.400 just you know, it's like Finance is almost the opposite 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.439 of operating under a global regulatory framework, where they've either 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.960 taken the position that we are everywhere and therefore newhere, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.480 or we have these specific local entities that might be 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.920 you know, compliance with laws in Germany or in Spain 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.880 or in the US, but there's no kind of over 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:54.160 arching crypto overlord to whom they are beholden. I think 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.040 a lot of people were quite surprised when France actually 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.360 gave finance like a registration of some kind, and they've 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.640 since kind of faced a bit of backlash with that, 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:07.080 and that's why they've kind of been talking about possibly 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.520 even imposing mandatory crypto licenses and the vote you talked 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.240 about false short of that, but it does require you know, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.880 more strange and conflict of interest management rules and and 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.680 kind of more rules in general like that in order 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:26.640 for entities to get registered in France. And so I 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.560 think there's a question of, you know, whether finance will 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.640 remain registered under these new rules. And also, I mean, 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.079 how much to regulators even know about how these crypto 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:41.160 exchanges work and how do they even monitor compliance. We'll 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.000 be right back with more of the week's top crypto 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:54.920 stories from Anna Arera and Justina Lee. I think one 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.400 of the nuances that folks in crypto are finding right 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.480 now is they're very much where the banks were in 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.520 two thousand and eight, not necessarily in terms of the 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.800 systemic risk of anything, but in terms of the fact 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:14.640 that customers have lost money or lost faith or are 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.599 starting to lose faith in the ecosystem. And that's a 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.559 challenging place to be. And one of the things one 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.719 of the ways we've seen industry respond is by just 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.960 laying people off. Gemini Trust Company, the firm founded by 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.160 the billionaire Winkel Box Twins, is cutting another ten percent 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.280 of its workforce, adding to the wave of job cuts 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:37.160 across the technology, fintech, and crypto industries at large. Just 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.600 you know, you have reported on you know, finance for 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:42.560 a long time, and you've been through these sort of 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:44.920 waves of job job cuts and people being like, oh, no, 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:48.199 I didn't get a million pound bonus this year. But 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.720 but I think this level of retrenchment is relatively new 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:53.679 for a lot of folks who came into crypto in 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.160 the past two years. Yeah, that's right. And it's kind 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.079 of funny because I guess a lot of them probably 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.960 came from tech or by this as well, and now 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.520 they're they're realizing that crypto itself is not in a 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.599 boom cycle forever, and they're actually caught a lot of 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:10.160 parallels between the crypto and the tech retrenchment that we're 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:14.120 seeing in the sense that I think both industries um 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.600 probably overextended during the boom years and are now forced 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.160 to cut back, and also in the sense that they've 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.840 both in a way suffered under these interest rate increases, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.599 which is a bit ironic for crypto probably. So I 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:29.760 think you'll be interesting to see where these people end up, 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.520 because I mean, tech is not really hiring again, and 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:39.720 SO and finance is definitely not expanding either. And Anna, 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:44.240 this is not your first crypto winto SO and SO. 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.280 As you as you kind of look out with you know, 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:50.160 the like the benefits of hindsight, where do people tend 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.120 to go after these sorts of things happen. So I 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:55.120 think the difference is just you know, saying is that 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.920 in all crypto winters before everybody else was fine, so 0:12:58.040 --> 0:12:59.800 you could get laid off and go find the work. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.360 Because a developer for Google, there's like was like a 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.720 fiercely intense battle for talent. And maybe that hasn't really 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:08.559 died down. I'm not really sure, because you know, you're 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.120 still building websites and you still need AI and you 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.480 still need you know, developers everywhere. It's not like that's 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.520 gone away. But maybe you have some of the fat. 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.040 Like I love watching videos of employees from big tech 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.120 firms on TikTok's say this is my I don't know 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:23.679 if you've seen them, but like this is a day 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.760 in the life of a Google and they're like picking 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.080 like breakfast, and they have half a meeting and then 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.280 they go pick snat and and then you know, so 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.440 maybe that's like not the actual core people that they need. 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.000 So some of them may may be super highly skilled 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.080 blockchain developers, of which are still not many, right because 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.520 this is a new technology will probably find place, but 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.760 it won't be as easy. And I am hearing actually 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.959 from head hunters that it's not as bad as other years, 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.320 because there are still some firms that are still hiring, 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:53.920 maybe the ones that came in and were a bit 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.120 more level headed, perhaps ones that were funded by or 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.600 arms of banks or other sort of more us uh 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:06.440 like wild westy kind of vibes. So that might be 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.760 a place, or you know, maybe they'll launch their own company. 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:12.800 Sometimes that's what happens when they start launching their own 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.400 companies because some of these people have money stashed away 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:17.640 if if and so you know often you do here 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.640 that when like there's moments like this, people start building 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.760 new things. Believe we've got to it's time to build. Yeah, 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.280 Like I'm thinking, I'm thinking the problem is where they're 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:27.840 going to ask money for. But there are the all 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.440 these giant funds with all this money that's just sitting there. 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.200 Just as a as a kind of a closing thought, 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:37.480 you know, we are ending January because time is a fiction. 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.920 And in what is a kind of a classic of 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.400 things that happened in media um, one of our colleagues, 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.840 Mike Regan wrote, you know, a very smart story about 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.840 how bitcoin and crypto markets more broadly were starting to 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.360 benefit from the January effect, and like most other equities, 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.320 were rallying. As soon as we published the story, everything 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.360 went down. But but you know, just you know, I 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.400 appreciate that you mentioned kind of the rate environment at 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.760 the top. Are there any other like macro economic things 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.640 that you are tracking, whether whether you know, sentiment around 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.840 the interest rates, whether the state of strikes in the 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.640 UK that you think might be affecting sentiment more broadly 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.640 across crypto. Yeah. Maybe Before I came in here, I 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.760 was just looking at the correlation between the SMP five 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.280 hundred and bitcoin, and it's still very much positive. And 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.880 obviously that's always been a bit ironic because after years 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.160 of bitcoin enthusiasts talking about how it's an inflation hedge, 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.040 it's kind of turned out to be the opposite. Obviously, 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:41.040 I guess that's partly particular to this macro environment and 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.760 the fact that crypto was held by a lot of 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.480 retail investors that gets scared as soon as they're they 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:51.120 see that their stocks and bonds are also falling, and 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.520 so it's kind of become, you know, this fact that 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.360 if you want to know where bitcoin is going, you 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:00.360 need to know where risky assets in traditional markets are going. 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.240 And it does seem like they're headed for a better 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:07.120 year because with signs of inflation peaking in the US 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:11.320 and perhaps even slower economic growth, the FED will slow 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.840 down interest rate hikes, so that should be good news 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.960 for crypto. Um So, funnily enough, everyone is still watching 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:23.160 Jerome Powell, the most powerful man in markets. Well, thank you, Anna, 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.480 thank you, Justina, appreciate you joining us. Thank you. That 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.440 was Bloomberg Senior editor Anna Irrera and Bloomberg reporta Justina Lee. 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:32.640 You can find more of their work on the Bloomberg 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.160 terminal on Bloomberg dot com, and if you check out 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.320 our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto, you'll find them there too. 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.280 This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.280 I Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.640 visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.240 you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions or 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.280 suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.159 The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina. Our 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.040 senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Farouk 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.480 and Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.840 Moses on Them. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:24.520 music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Marie Schmal We'll be 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:25.119 back tomorrow.