WEBVTT - Part Three: The Surrealists Were Even Cooler Than You Thought

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<v Speaker 1>Whole Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, and welcome to cool spiders that infest Sophie's basement

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<v Speaker 2>with the occasional centipede house centipedes. Ideally, I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 2>Margaret Kiljoy, and today we are not talking about bugs,

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<v Speaker 2>not talking.

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<v Speaker 1>About my current trauma.

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<v Speaker 2>Nope, I'm really allergic to spider bites.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't hate them as a concept, but spiders and

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<v Speaker 1>mer are not compatible.

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<v Speaker 2>My first real viral post on Instagram was at my

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<v Speaker 2>old cabin. I had this like tiny dollhouse mirror that

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<v Speaker 2>I had. I have no idea why I had a

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<v Speaker 2>dollhouse mayor, and I glued it right to the inside.

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<v Speaker 1>Of my door, and did you catch a spider?

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<v Speaker 2>No? I put a I wrote a sign above it

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<v Speaker 2>that said spiders must be smaller than this mirror, denied entry.

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<v Speaker 1>Did it work?

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<v Speaker 2>I think?

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<v Speaker 1>So? Oh, maybe that's what I should have done instead of,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just having this horrible incompatibility that I'm having.

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<v Speaker 1>But I would need like a really really tiny, tiny

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<v Speaker 1>mirror because all them, yeah and I are not compatible.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know who I am compatible with is our guests?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it Caitlin? It's Caitlin Hi, Caitlin.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, Caitlyn Kayln, you can. You can infest my house

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<v Speaker 1>anytime you want.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, and I don't have eight legs.

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<v Speaker 2>Or that we know of that, not with that attitude.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't. Oh true, get yourself a hack song. No

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<v Speaker 2>one said they have to be attached.

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<v Speaker 3>You know what, You're right in that case, I have

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<v Speaker 3>dozens of legs. Yeah, that centipede was so big, so big.

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<v Speaker 2>So today. Caitlin Durante's our guest.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi, Caitlin, Hi, Kaitln, Hello, thanks for having me back.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Sophie's our producer.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, Sophie, I'm traumatized.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello. Ian is our audio, Hi Ian yay Ian Hi

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<v Speaker 2>Ian Hi Un woman wrote our theme song. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is part three of our deep and meandering dive into

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<v Speaker 2>the Surrealists, the art movement that didn't see itself as

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<v Speaker 2>an art movement that was cool as hell and gay

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<v Speaker 2>as hell and anti fascist as hell. Normally, I could

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<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, I'll catch you up with exactly where

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<v Speaker 2>we're at in the plot. But we're doing it meandering,

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<v Speaker 2>We're doing it surrealistly. Last time, I called these episodes

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<v Speaker 2>a drive, which comes from the situationists who followed the

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<v Speaker 2>Surrealists in their footsteps right, although they like to argue

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<v Speaker 2>about it and they got in all these fights when

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<v Speaker 2>they overlapped. It was fun, but that's not what we're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna talk about today. But instead I was like, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>this isn't a jerief. Maybe it is a different, other

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<v Speaker 2>fancy word for Margaret has adhd, And this episode is

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<v Speaker 2>a perfect excuse to revel in that because it's about surrealists.

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<v Speaker 2>That word is the exquisite corpse, speaking of having too

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<v Speaker 2>many limbs that aren't attached to people. Kate Len, are

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<v Speaker 2>you familiar with the exquisite corpse? I am not even

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit. Okay, it has nothing to do with

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<v Speaker 2>its name. Okay, they're fucking surrealists.

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<v Speaker 3>Wait, exquisite corpse. Yeah, I'll explain it, okay, please Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Or in French it would be called a cadavre EXI,

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<v Speaker 2>but I don't speak French besides one bag at please,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, I don't speak French, which is what I

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<v Speaker 2>said every day all you need to know about a

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<v Speaker 2>month in France, and that's what I used to get

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<v Speaker 2>around that.

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<v Speaker 3>And Spanish nice, which I also used Spanish because a

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<v Speaker 3>woman I spoke to who didn't speak English, but spoke Spanish,

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<v Speaker 3>and I spoke enough Spanish to be able to tell

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<v Speaker 3>her where the bathroom was at the bar, that I

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<v Speaker 3>was doing a comedy show at Excellent.

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<v Speaker 2>All you need that and baguettes.

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<v Speaker 3>All you need is bread.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay. So the Exquisite Corpse is something between a party

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<v Speaker 2>game and a method of creating collaborative art. I've only

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<v Speaker 2>played it as a party game, but it's done by

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<v Speaker 2>people who like actually draw well. And then it's coole

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<v Speaker 2>as fuck's realist.

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<v Speaker 3>Start.

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<v Speaker 2>You ever played the party game where you like start

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<v Speaker 2>drawing at the top of the piece of paper and

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<v Speaker 2>then you fold it so only the little two lines

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<v Speaker 2>are showing, and then hand it to the next person.

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<v Speaker 3>It sounds familiar, but I don't think i've actually played.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe I've just observed.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, it's really fun. That's the game of Exquisite Corpse.

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<v Speaker 2>You draw something at the top of the piece of paper,

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<v Speaker 2>you fold it so only the very very edge of

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<v Speaker 2>what you draw is visible. The next person continues that

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<v Speaker 2>little bit, and since they're starting with the connecting lines

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<v Speaker 2>from the previous person, the things are like completely unrelated,

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<v Speaker 2>but they line up, you know. And sometimes you'll start

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<v Speaker 2>by being like all right, we're drawing a person, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>So there's like some semblance of creating a form, but

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<v Speaker 2>other times you don't. You have a thing that starts

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<v Speaker 2>off as a clouds, and then it's an elephant, and

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<v Speaker 2>then it's the abyss. I don't know. You can also

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<v Speaker 2>do it with writing. You can write a sentence and

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<v Speaker 2>then the first word of the next sentence or paragraph

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<v Speaker 2>where only the last line is visible or whatever, and.

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<v Speaker 3>It's okay, that's I think that's the version I'm more

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<v Speaker 3>familiar with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when you hang out with sober people, this is

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of thing that they get up to when

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<v Speaker 2>they are at a party because there's no other social

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<v Speaker 2>lubricant available. I guess I don't know. It's true.

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<v Speaker 3>Alcohol is the only thing that you need just together,

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<v Speaker 3>I said, drunkenly. No, I'm not stone, I'm not drunk

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<v Speaker 3>at this moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Congrets you so okay. The strange name, the Exquisite Corpse,

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<v Speaker 2>it just comes from one of the first times they

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<v Speaker 2>played it, which they played it as a written game

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<v Speaker 2>for a while, and it generated the sentence the Exquisite

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<v Speaker 2>Corpse will drink the new wine and like these are

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of like bastard countercultural rich kids, right, mostly

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<v Speaker 2>so they're convinced they've unlocked like the secrets of the

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<v Speaker 2>universe with this game, right, and so they give it

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<v Speaker 2>this grandiose name, but it's really fun. Most of them

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<v Speaker 2>claim it was invented in nineteen twenty five, with like

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<v Speaker 2>there's like lists where it's like the five specific guys,

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<v Speaker 2>all guys were there when the Exquisite Corpse was generated

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<v Speaker 2>by our unconscious genius or whatever. Later someone was like, nah,

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<v Speaker 2>we've been playing this game since nineteen eighteen, well, and

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<v Speaker 2>which you know just doesn't line up as well to

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<v Speaker 2>like clout chasing basically.

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<v Speaker 3>Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>So the surrealists are usually presented as if there's this

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<v Speaker 2>like clean cut line in the sand where like there's

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<v Speaker 2>like no surrealism, and then in nineteen twenty four of

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<v Speaker 2>their surrealism, right, there's like a before and after of

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<v Speaker 2>the creation of surrealism. And this is not the case.

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<v Speaker 2>The word surrealism actually comes from some theat or stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that I didn't write down the details of because it

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<v Speaker 2>seemed like a tangent that my brain couldn't handle at

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<v Speaker 2>that particular moment. But it and it wasn't even like

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<v Speaker 2>the founders of surrealism who necessarily coined that phrase. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>It developed organically and it wasn't named. It wasn't like

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<v Speaker 2>being like, all right, what we're doing is surrealism until

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<v Speaker 2>they'd been doing the thing for a while, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a thing that I keep running across whenever there's like

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<v Speaker 2>a cool radical subculture, like they're just like doing that shit,

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<v Speaker 2>and then someone's like, oh they're the hippies. Oh they're

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<v Speaker 2>the nihilists. Oh they're the surrealists, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like oh what do we call this? Yeah, thing

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<v Speaker 3>that's been around for a while. Yeah, yeah, totally, which

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<v Speaker 3>makes me wonder about all of them. Right, are all

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<v Speaker 3>things like that? Like was punk like that?

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe, I mean, how long did this podcast exist before

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<v Speaker 3>you started calling it cool people who did.

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff about immediately?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, well there goes that theory.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that's not entirely true. For a while, we kept

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<v Speaker 2>accidentally calling it cool people did cool things.

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<v Speaker 3>I've also made that mistake.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we also called it cool people did cool shit.

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<v Speaker 1>And then we were like, oh, that'll get jio, that'll

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<v Speaker 1>get blocked on all the apps. So that's cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what I pitched as cool shit yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>one time I was like, oh, I actually pitched it

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<v Speaker 2>as a different name and people were like, oh, is

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<v Speaker 2>it called based? People did base stuff and I was like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I am old like it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's meant to be.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, wait, what does base mean? I'm also old.

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<v Speaker 2>It means cool.

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<v Speaker 1>It means cool.

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<v Speaker 3>My gosh. Since when ah gen z Yeah, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 3>can't keep up.

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<v Speaker 2>No, and it's okay that don't have to. Every generation

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<v Speaker 2>can have its own slang.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I included the word stan as a verb

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<v Speaker 2>in this script for the first time ever, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to feel extra self conscious when I use it.

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<v Speaker 2>But so it goes. So we're going to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>the build up. We've already talked about a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>things they did and a bunch of a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>the people who inspired them, But there is like a

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<v Speaker 2>direct lineage that they basically come out of data and

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<v Speaker 2>the I'm going to I had this whole pitch where

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<v Speaker 2>it's like we're going to connect piece by piece with

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<v Speaker 2>smooth transitions of different subject matter to create an exquisite corpse. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a million histories of surrealism. Most of them focus

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<v Speaker 2>on their art, which makes sense. They focused mostly on

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<v Speaker 2>their art, right, but only mostly, Like I'd say it

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<v Speaker 2>was like a fifty one percent art thing. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to focus a bit more on how they

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<v Speaker 2>wove into the rest of the world and their connections

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<v Speaker 2>because maybe we're all part of an exquisite corpse, a

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<v Speaker 2>history where every piece has its connections to every other piece.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh so a question about exquisite corpse game. So when

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<v Speaker 3>you're playing it with like a drawing, let's say, so

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<v Speaker 3>it keeps getting passed on and you fold the paper,

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<v Speaker 3>and so the idea is that, like what was the

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<v Speaker 3>original thing and how does it compare to what the

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<v Speaker 3>fit like the last person drew, or like how do

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<v Speaker 3>what's the.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's less like a game a telephone. No, there's

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<v Speaker 2>no objective. It's it's to create something out of the unconscious.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's like other ones that are actually like there's

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<v Speaker 2>a really fun one where you want the first person

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<v Speaker 2>just like writes a sentence describing something, and then the

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<v Speaker 2>next person just can see that sentence and then draws

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<v Speaker 2>it and then folds it where they can't see the

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<v Speaker 2>sentence they came before it, and so then the next

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<v Speaker 2>person writes a sentence describing that piece, and then the

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<v Speaker 2>next person draws it et cetera, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 3>Down the line.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, and that it's it's actually really interesting because

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<v Speaker 2>it's both a party game and it also just like

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<v Speaker 2>actually makes really cool art. There's a bunch of really

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<v Speaker 2>no other times I did it? Did it ever create

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<v Speaker 2>cool art? But I've seen really cool art that was

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<v Speaker 2>made this way.

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<v Speaker 3>Hmm. Okay, nice, And I'm sure, look, don't sell yourself short.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure you made amazing art.

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<v Speaker 2>What's funny is I've like literally published a comic book,

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<v Speaker 2>but I like never talk about it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you should talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's called the Super Happy and Erco Fun Book. And

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<v Speaker 2>I used to draw this comic strip when I was

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<v Speaker 2>like a traveling punk who lived out of a backpack,

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<v Speaker 2>where it's like stick figure punks being annoying. Anyway, everyone,

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<v Speaker 2>can you?

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<v Speaker 3>Is it purchaseable?

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<v Speaker 2>I think so. I maybe it's probably it's like one

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<v Speaker 2>of those things where it's like probably like technically in print,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm willing to bet the publisher doesn't like actually

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<v Speaker 2>keep up with it very well. You know, that's very punk. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>all of that kind of an annoying way. But okay,

0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.040
<v Speaker 2>but the next thing we're gonna talk about is the

0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.760
<v Speaker 2>punk is thing. Ever, I don't know it's really punk.

0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:05.040
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of things that are really punk, but

0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:06.800
<v Speaker 2>this is one of them. We're gonna talk about data.

0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:07.880
<v Speaker 2>We heard of data.

0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.840
<v Speaker 3>I've heard of it, but I know very little.

0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that it makes sense. That is fucking cool, and

0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.280
<v Speaker 2>it's basically the thing that came immediately before the surrealists,

0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.280
<v Speaker 2>and like most of the family and Surrealists were dataists

0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:22.760
<v Speaker 2>before that.

0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:24.280
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so.

0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay to delay the scene for it in the nineteenth century.

0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.280
<v Speaker 2>In the early twentieth century, everything is like fucking wild

0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.480
<v Speaker 2>for Europeans and most of the world. Everything is changing quickly.

0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.600
<v Speaker 2>You have industrialization and capitalism being like, hell, yea, let's

0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 2>do this thing. But you also got the working class

0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.160
<v Speaker 2>being like, no, we're gonna do our fucking thing instead, right.

0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.480
<v Speaker 2>You get all these people organizing into labor movements, and

0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.160
<v Speaker 2>you get all these people dreaming of a future without

0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.240
<v Speaker 2>the state or capitalism, and a lot of them are

0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.400
<v Speaker 2>using like all this new science to be like, oh

0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.960
<v Speaker 2>my god, we can you know, have our fully automated

0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:01.000
<v Speaker 2>gay luxury space, Communism or whatever you know, and they

0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 2>tended to disagree about the methods of how to create

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:05.800
<v Speaker 2>a society without the state and capitalism. But that was

0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.079
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of people's fucking idea. The present was

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 2>really bleak, but the future was really bright. Was kind

0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:17.640
<v Speaker 2>of a one way to understand that part of labor movement.

0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Then World War One came and said, no, the future sucks.

0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:27.160
<v Speaker 2>It's all murder, everything's bad. Machine guns are here. You're fucked.

0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.360
<v Speaker 2>World War one came and it smashed all those dreamers

0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.240
<v Speaker 2>into little pieces because the state plus machine gun meant

0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:38.800
<v Speaker 2>death everywhere, and the youth were mowed down. The stragglers

0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.240
<v Speaker 2>who crawled home from the trenches were forever changed, and

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 2>mostly not in good ways. And this dramatically shifts the

0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.960
<v Speaker 2>art and social scenes of Europe. And this is a

0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.200
<v Speaker 2>bit of an exaggeration coming from an author I read

0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.199
<v Speaker 2>just talking about like utopianism is kind of like on

0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.839
<v Speaker 2>the wane, right, people are a little bit like we

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.640
<v Speaker 2>care about our bright and bold future we're marching towards

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:06.240
<v Speaker 2>and it's more like decadence, a nihilism, and a fucket attitude.

0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.080
<v Speaker 2>This is where you get like Weimar Germany and all

0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 2>the cabarets. This is when you get like, let's drink

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 2>and be merry because we have no fucking food, but

0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:15.760
<v Speaker 2>we seem to have all this booze and like, let's

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 2>just fucking go, you know. So it's a really good

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>time for art and culture. Eh. It kind of feels

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot like today, where climate change has us fully

0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 2>aware that all of the progressive things that everyone was

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.760
<v Speaker 2>working towards don't mean shit unless we have a real

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:43.320
<v Speaker 2>sudden revolution. Yeah, totally, but it's made really good art. Yeah,

0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.080
<v Speaker 2>like this podcast, which is totally high art. I absolutely,

0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:47.240
<v Speaker 2>oh the highest.

0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.280
<v Speaker 2>So this did not mean an end to revolt in

0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 2>a desire for change, but it meant it was more

0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.800
<v Speaker 2>concerned with the destruction of the existent rather than the

0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 2>prefiguration of something new. And to quote a more modern

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 2>slogan that comes from the same urge, life is ecstatic

0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:13.080
<v Speaker 2>intercourse between destruction and creation and not really I know. Yeah,

0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:14.720
<v Speaker 2>it was not a good time to be alive in

0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:16.360
<v Speaker 2>the inner wary years, but it was a good time

0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.600
<v Speaker 2>for art and culture. All the old rules are gone,

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 2>anything could come in its place. Enter data, which actually

0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:24.600
<v Speaker 2>started in the middle of the First World War, and

0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 2>there's a whole bunch of like modernism and avant garde

0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.400
<v Speaker 2>and stuff. Data Unsurrealism are just examples of it, but

0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:34.120
<v Speaker 2>they're like the ones I'm talking about today. Yeah, Data

0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.560
<v Speaker 2>was an art movement against art movements. They were an

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 2>anti art movement that was like a stated thing. Their

0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.960
<v Speaker 2>goal was the quote ruthless violation of the traditional conventions

0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 2>of art. They wanted to fight the logic and carefully

0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 2>ordered rules of modern capitalist, nationalist and war mongerin society.

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 2>And they wanted to do that fighting with nonsense and

0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.400
<v Speaker 2>the irrationality. And they did it with every medium of

0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 2>art they could. So they made really weird shit, and

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.800
<v Speaker 2>it's like it didn't last as long, right, because it's

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 2>not as like pleasant, right, Like surrealism is like even

0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.240
<v Speaker 2>though it's like fucking weird, you're like, oh, it's like

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 2>there's like nice colors and shit, you know, right, it's.

0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 3>Like aesthetically pleasing. Yes, once again, I am doing a

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.880
<v Speaker 3>Google image search for data art.

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 2>What do you get? Is it a lot of graphic design.

0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.120
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of design's.

0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Do you get the toilet, the journal, We'll talk about

0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 2>the journal.

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 3>There's like a lot of like what just seems like

0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:33.960
<v Speaker 3>a collage.

0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 1>Like, can't even tell you how much my APR history

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 1>teacher talked about that fucking toilet.

0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 2>I actually, I'm gonna be really curious when we get

0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:45.000
<v Speaker 2>to that part to ask what your a p English

0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.720
<v Speaker 2>teacher said about it. But yeah, like they, yeah, they

0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.560
<v Speaker 2>speaking of trauma. Let's bring up about it.

0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 1>And I used to get in trouble for talking in class.

0:16:54.600 --> 0:17:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Just pretend she's a giant spider he of course. Yeah.

0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.520
<v Speaker 2>The only way I had passed Art history once I

0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.240
<v Speaker 2>learned that my art history teacher really liked the Rococo

0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.960
<v Speaker 2>and was complain about how none of her students liked Rococo.

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.720
<v Speaker 2>So it was the only period I studied. And then

0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.399
<v Speaker 2>I wrote my paper on it, and then I was like,

0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm a horrible person. I basically was just like, oh,

0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 2>I really struggle with this class, obviously, but I really

0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.560
<v Speaker 2>liked Rococo. It totally spoke to me. And she was like,

0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.320
<v Speaker 2>oh my god, me too, and she gave me a

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:28.000
<v Speaker 2>passing grade.

0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:35.040
<v Speaker 3>That's the way you hustled, Yeah, work smarter not yeah.

0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, so data. No one agrees where the

0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.679
<v Speaker 2>name comes from, it's possible. The most common version of

0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.159
<v Speaker 2>the story is that someone opened up a dictionary at

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.639
<v Speaker 2>random and stabbed down a knife into the French word

0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.400
<v Speaker 2>for hobby horse. Maybe it's maybe they used it because

0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.120
<v Speaker 2>it's a child's first word, you know, like and it's

0:17:56.160 --> 0:18:01.359
<v Speaker 2>like sort of nonsense word. Yeah, or a lot of

0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Romanians in Switzerland were a big part of the starting

0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.520
<v Speaker 2>of it, and so when they kept saying like yes, yes,

0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:13.520
<v Speaker 2>they were saying da da Right, maybe the creators intentionally

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.679
<v Speaker 2>lied about where it comes from. I think that's the

0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:16.760
<v Speaker 2>most likely answer.

0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.200
<v Speaker 3>Sounds like a very data thing to do.

0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. Data was basically founded by this couple, a

0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 2>man and a woman. So history, of course, only remembers

0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.199
<v Speaker 2>the man, who by all accounts was actually pretty good

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.280
<v Speaker 2>to his partner. So here's to the wife guys of history,

0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 2>and they start off their journey here as anarchists, probably

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.200
<v Speaker 2>anarchists pacifists. Their name are names are Hugo Ball and

0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Emmy Hennings. Hugo was a German born into the conserv

0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 2>into a conservative Catholic family living in Belgium, and he

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.840
<v Speaker 2>saw firsthand what machine guns do to people, Belgium being

0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.040
<v Speaker 2>one of the first places that the like mass casualties

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:59.000
<v Speaker 2>of machine guns of white people because spoiler not spoiler,

0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:00.720
<v Speaker 2>a thing that happened and of course is the first

0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.320
<v Speaker 2>use of machine guns. And war was like against indigenous

0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.640
<v Speaker 2>people in Africa that I'm aware of. I don't know whatever. Anyway,

0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.320
<v Speaker 2>he saw this and he had a quote, the war

0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.480
<v Speaker 2>is founded on a glaring mistake. Men have been confused

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.920
<v Speaker 2>with machines. Basically, it's like, wait, what like this is dumb?

0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Machines should fight it out? Why are people fighting it out?

0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.840
<v Speaker 2>They die? Like they all die. That seems bad, right, right,

0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 2>So the war's going on. So he fucks off to

0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Switzerland with Emmy, who I think might be the one

0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.520
<v Speaker 2>who got him into anarchism and shit, though don't quote

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.240
<v Speaker 2>me on it. She was a cabaret dancer and she

0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 2>was a year older than him and had already been

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.800
<v Speaker 2>married and was publishing poems in radical like lefty newspapers.

0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.280
<v Speaker 2>And they're in their like late twenties at this point.

0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:47.400
<v Speaker 2>They're like, all right, you gotta eat the fuck out.

0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.119
<v Speaker 2>We're going to Switzerland. They go to Zurich and they

0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.560
<v Speaker 2>show up and they're starving artists. They're trying to scrape by.

0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:55.600
<v Speaker 2>They're working on all these different shows and shit. As

0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.760
<v Speaker 2>performers or writers or whatever, and this is a really

0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.639
<v Speaker 2>interesting place to be because like everyone who's fleeing the war,

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.400
<v Speaker 2>like all the all the radicals who are like being

0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.160
<v Speaker 2>persecuted by their governments for being pacifists or being against

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the war whatever, are all coming here. Right. So nineteen

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:17.000
<v Speaker 2>sixteen they start Cabaret Voltaire and soon they have all

0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 2>these artists in their orbit, and they start a magazine too,

0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.680
<v Speaker 2>and they name it Cabaret Voltaire, which is fine, Like

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.000
<v Speaker 2>it's not like the most original thing to give it

0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.760
<v Speaker 2>the same name, but whatever, I would probably do.

0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 3>That creativity is hard, I know.

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:33.800
<v Speaker 2>It is, and they're putting all of it into their

0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:39.040
<v Speaker 2>cabaret because their cabaret is fucking weird. Like when I

0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.359
<v Speaker 2>think of a cabaret, I think of like, well, I

0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.600
<v Speaker 2>probably mostly think of the movie Cabaret, right, and I

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 2>think about like these like very structured like here's these

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:52.159
<v Speaker 2>people performing for this specific audience and like, you know,

0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know whatever. This cabaret was a venue for poetry, dance,

0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.400
<v Speaker 2>and music, and people tried all kinds of avantcar shit.

0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.639
<v Speaker 2>There were poems without words known in any language, people

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.520
<v Speaker 2>reading poems at the same time as one another. There's

0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:11.080
<v Speaker 2>like noise scenes stuff like people playing concerts with typewriters

0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.680
<v Speaker 2>and rakes all the shit that's like kind of cool

0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:15.600
<v Speaker 2>and kind of annoying, you know an equal.

0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.600
<v Speaker 3>Okay, sure, prodo stomp.

0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.199
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like, yeah, stomp is the commercialization of of

0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.440
<v Speaker 2>of noise, Okay, which is fine. I mean there's actually

0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 2>whatever speaking of the commercialization of radical culture. Wow, did

0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 2>you know that this show is actually sponsored?

0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:34.920
<v Speaker 3>I did?

0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh not your first write.

0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.720
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, I'll try again. I did not tell me more.

0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you want to know more, you can listen

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:54.679
<v Speaker 2>to these things that I wholeheartedly and earnestly support. And

0:21:54.720 --> 0:22:01.200
<v Speaker 2>we're back. So there's people wearing all kinds of weird

0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.480
<v Speaker 2>ridiculous outfits, doing strange dances and shit like there's a

0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.560
<v Speaker 2>picture of like Hugo Ball and like a machine robot

0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:09.840
<v Speaker 2>costume that's like cheesy as shit, looks kind of like

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 2>the Tin Man like. And there's a a riotous crowd.

0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:17.480
<v Speaker 2>It's not people nodding along quietly. It's not like, oh,

0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:19.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go perform, everyone better be quiet while

0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:21.720
<v Speaker 2>I read my poem. That is not the vibe here.

0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.520
<v Speaker 2>One poet apparently like to punctuate his speaking by shooting

0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:29.879
<v Speaker 2>a gun into the air. WHOA, I'm sure the owners

0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 2>of the club fucking love that.

0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:34.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, sounds a bit dangerous.

0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.200
<v Speaker 2>The word data is on a banner by the piano,

0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.520
<v Speaker 2>and it's basically they're like, what if we just do

0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:44.040
<v Speaker 2>chaos right? And part of their efforts at anti colonialism

0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:46.040
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't read right in today's eyes, which is that they

0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.880
<v Speaker 2>had to have like African drumming and like African inspired

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.879
<v Speaker 2>war masks as part of the decorations, although they were

0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:54.680
<v Speaker 2>also actively supporting African anti colonial movements.

0:22:54.840 --> 0:23:01.200
<v Speaker 3>And I think that, okay, so appropriating some like part

0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.199
<v Speaker 3>of it is appropriation, and part of it it's like,

0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 3>but we support.

0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like militant support. And I don't fucking know, Like,

0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I think this is a good example of

0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.680
<v Speaker 2>like not necessarily holding people to the same standards because

0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:17.000
<v Speaker 2>things were different, not even like, oh we've learned more now,

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:19.040
<v Speaker 2>it's just like literally the way that people would have

0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:21.080
<v Speaker 2>interacted with all of those things could have been very

0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 2>different or not. I don't know. Also it's possible, yeah exactly.

0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:31.359
<v Speaker 2>We'll speak for yourself, but you know, there's also all

0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:33.560
<v Speaker 2>these like It's also possible that the war Masks are

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:37.600
<v Speaker 2>actually Romanian folklore inspired, depending on the what source you read.

0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:41.320
<v Speaker 2>I'd put money that they do both. A fucking ton

0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:43.680
<v Speaker 2>of the people involved at the start are Romanian Jews

0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:49.359
<v Speaker 2>in exile, and sometimes the shows turn into riots or

0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:52.960
<v Speaker 2>cause other scandals, and the cops were like, not fans

0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:57.120
<v Speaker 2>of Cabaret Voltaire. So it's just a punk club. It's

0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:58.280
<v Speaker 2>just a fucking coolest shit.

0:23:58.920 --> 0:23:59.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's cool.

0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:00.760
<v Speaker 3>The cops don't like.

0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:02.120
<v Speaker 2>It, Yeah, exactly.

0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:06.720
<v Speaker 2>So Hugo Ball writes the first Data Manifesto in nineteen sixteen,

0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:08.720
<v Speaker 2>and he like reads it out at the club because

0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:10.959
<v Speaker 2>of course he does. And one of the lines in it,

0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:12.240
<v Speaker 2>to sort of give you a sense of the sort

0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:16.560
<v Speaker 2>of whatever, quote, how can one get rid of everything

0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:20.320
<v Speaker 2>that smacks of journalism? Worms, everything nice and right, blinkered, moralistic,

0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:23.879
<v Speaker 2>You're peanized and never ated by saying dada. Dada is

0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:26.439
<v Speaker 2>the word soul. Data is the pawn shop. Dada is

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:29.880
<v Speaker 2>the world's best lily milk soap. Basically, it's like, I'm

0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.040
<v Speaker 2>going to spew nonsense because I am sick of the

0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:35.159
<v Speaker 2>capitalist world is obsessed with everything being like neat and orderly.

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:39.280
<v Speaker 2>We are going to just like throw everything into chaos

0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:44.119
<v Speaker 2>until something better comes along. All the while, Hugo, Hugo,

0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Ball not Boss. I don't know how you, Hugo Boss.

0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Thought it the entire time you were saying Ball. I

0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:51.800
<v Speaker 1>thought Boss the entire time, even though I know it

0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:57.120
<v Speaker 1>was wrong. It was like, Hugo, one's a Nazi, One's

0:24:57.160 --> 0:24:57.960
<v Speaker 1>not a Nazi.

0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:05.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, uh huh yeah. All the while, Hugo is obsessed

0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:08.920
<v Speaker 2>with Catholic mysticism, Supposedly, at the same time as he's

0:25:09.040 --> 0:25:12.040
<v Speaker 2>like sticking the knife into the dictionary and coming up

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:15.119
<v Speaker 2>with the word data, he's like building an altar in

0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:19.600
<v Speaker 2>the corner of his room. Interesting, and their whole thing

0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:23.720
<v Speaker 2>is against rationalism. In the art world, they're against aesthetics.

0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:28.080
<v Speaker 2>Now we can talk about the urinal Marcel Duchamp, who is,

0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.840
<v Speaker 2>aw yeah, one of the early Dadaists and later Surrealist.

0:25:32.320 --> 0:25:35.919
<v Speaker 2>He gets into the ready made, which is basically, you

0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:38.399
<v Speaker 2>take a mass produced object, you give it a title,

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:40.360
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, here you go, here's your fucking art.

0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Do you do you know the story behind Fountain?

0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Tell me the story behind Fountain.

0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Fountain is the piece that everybody calls the urinal.

0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:52.600
<v Speaker 1>It's an upside down yurinal where he just signed it

0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:55.280
<v Speaker 1>our period mutt with the year and I think it

0:25:55.359 --> 0:26:00.560
<v Speaker 1>was nineteen seventeen. Somebody can found check me if I'm wrong. Sorry.

0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 1>And there was this art competition that was like you

0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:08.680
<v Speaker 1>can submit anything, and that's what he and he submitted

0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:13.560
<v Speaker 1>it anonymously and everybody freaked the fuck out and it

0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:17.159
<v Speaker 1>like changed all of art because it was like, what

0:26:17.359 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 1>is art? Is this art? Can we define this as art?

0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:22.359
<v Speaker 1>And everybody lost their goddamn minds.

0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:26.359
<v Speaker 2>It's cool. Yeah, no, it's really cool to me. Yeah,

0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:29.200
<v Speaker 2>And like apparently they didn't put it into the main show.

0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:31.359
<v Speaker 2>They were like, this is not fucking art, but they

0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.119
<v Speaker 2>they did photographics. Well they thought they thought it was

0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:37.159
<v Speaker 2>a joke at first. Yeah. Yeah. Well but here's the

0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:40.640
<v Speaker 2>thing I'm trying to figure out is that like everything

0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:42.880
<v Speaker 2>I had read about it, like art history wise, which

0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:45.400
<v Speaker 2>is again I clearly have laid out that I did

0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:46.800
<v Speaker 2>not pay much attention to art history.

0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:49.919
<v Speaker 1>I've clearly laid out that I that I did. I

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:52.960
<v Speaker 1>knew that I knew that story off the cuffin right,

0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:57.000
<v Speaker 1>and it wasn't talking too much in class.

0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:02.040
<v Speaker 2>So there's like one way of interpreting it where it's

0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:04.720
<v Speaker 2>like whoa man, Like everything is art, that's so deep.

0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:09.399
<v Speaker 2>And then there's another way that seems more realistic to me,

0:27:09.960 --> 0:27:13.199
<v Speaker 2>which is that he was being like it's trolling. It's like,

0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:16.560
<v Speaker 2>fuck you, fuck your art world. Here's a fucking urinal.

0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:20.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm calling it fountain. Fucking deal with it, you know.

0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:25.600
<v Speaker 2>And it might be both right, Like it might be like, look,

0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:29.639
<v Speaker 2>everything's art, nothing's art, dunam you know.

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.000
<v Speaker 3>It could be could be something that I did in

0:27:34.000 --> 0:27:37.760
<v Speaker 3>school sometimes where I was like, oops, this project's due

0:27:37.800 --> 0:27:41.320
<v Speaker 3>and I didn't do anything for it, so I'll just

0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:44.800
<v Speaker 3>slap the thing on another thing that's already a thing

0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:47.840
<v Speaker 3>and then pretend like I'm a genius.

0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:52.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but maybe you were genius, Caitlyn, and maybe I was.

0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:54.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, maybe I was.

0:27:54.600 --> 0:27:56.280
<v Speaker 2>The real genius was the thing that came up from

0:27:56.320 --> 0:28:01.280
<v Speaker 2>your own conscience as you were trying to evade the rules.

0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:07.040
<v Speaker 2>So sadly, this concept and lots of anti art and

0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:10.919
<v Speaker 2>surrealism were later recuperated into capitalism, like by that asshole

0:28:10.960 --> 0:28:13.080
<v Speaker 2>Andy Warhol, who basically did the same thing but for

0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:16.960
<v Speaker 2>capitalism instead of against capitalism. But data along the way.

0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:20.440
<v Speaker 2>They're also against nationalism and colonialism. They figure that these

0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:22.800
<v Speaker 2>two things are the cause of war, and above everything

0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:26.560
<v Speaker 2>else there against war, right, And soon it spreads this

0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:31.320
<v Speaker 2>like fucking wild punk scene. The original club gets shut down,

0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:34.960
<v Speaker 2>I think by the cops after like, I don't know,

0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:37.120
<v Speaker 2>six months. It does not last, it does not last

0:28:37.160 --> 0:28:42.560
<v Speaker 2>a very long time, but data goes across the Western world,

0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:46.880
<v Speaker 2>and Hugo Ball and Emmy Hennings, the two people who

0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:50.720
<v Speaker 2>opened Cabaret Voltaire, they're out. Depending on the source, they

0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 2>stuck around with the movement for a few more months

0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:55.479
<v Speaker 2>to a few more years, but basically I think they

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:57.640
<v Speaker 2>were like, oh my god, fucking art movement, we've become

0:28:57.680 --> 0:29:02.160
<v Speaker 2>the thing we've hated, and we're out. But by nineteen

0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:07.480
<v Speaker 2>twenty they've reconverted to like traditional Catholicism, and Hugo spends

0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:09.880
<v Speaker 2>the rest of his short life obsessed with theology and

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Christian mysticism and now the obsessive rationalism that he's fighting against.

0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:19.360
<v Speaker 2>He's still against rationalism, but he's against the He now

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:25.520
<v Speaker 2>blames it on the Protestant Reformation. Right, he fucking loses it.

0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:29.040
<v Speaker 3>I was just like, what, I don't understand it.

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:33.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I understand it, but it's not good, you know, right?

0:29:34.840 --> 0:29:38.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I did not see that coming. No, but good

0:29:38.200 --> 0:29:40.880
<v Speaker 3>for him, Yeah, I guess.

0:29:41.360 --> 0:29:44.160
<v Speaker 2>He died of cancer, super young, at forty one years old.

0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Emmy lasted decades longer. But Data goes on without them. Right.

0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:53.200
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen eighteen, a Jewish Romanian who had been there

0:29:53.200 --> 0:29:55.840
<v Speaker 2>since more or less the beginning. His name is Tristan Zara.

0:29:56.600 --> 0:29:59.200
<v Speaker 2>He writes a new Data manifesto, and he goes on

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:01.440
<v Speaker 2>to lead the movement. He helps it spread, and he's the

0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:03.080
<v Speaker 2>one who brought it to all the folks who are

0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:07.520
<v Speaker 2>going to go on to start the surrealist movement. Now,

0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Dada had an ideological fight with another art movement. I'm guessing,

0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:15.800
<v Speaker 2>based on your knowledge of surrealism and Data, you're not

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:17.160
<v Speaker 2>super familiar with futurism.

0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:21.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm really not you be correct, Sophie.

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:22.480
<v Speaker 2>What you got on futurism?

0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't have much on futurism, to be honest with you.

0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Is there another name for it?

0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:30.880
<v Speaker 2>No, this is a futurist movement. The reason it falls

0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:32.680
<v Speaker 2>out of favor of history is that they were really

0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:34.120
<v Speaker 2>into the Nazis after a while.

0:30:34.640 --> 0:30:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's probably why I don't know about it as much.

0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's what is what does the style look like?

0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:47.640
<v Speaker 2>It's like Metropolis, the movie Metropolis. Like it's like it's

0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:51.520
<v Speaker 2>like we're gonna go into this bright, beautiful future where

0:30:51.520 --> 0:30:55.080
<v Speaker 2>the machines are like work for us, and like it's

0:30:55.120 --> 0:30:57.080
<v Speaker 2>like lots of like city scapes and shit.

0:30:57.960 --> 0:30:58.800
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmmm.

0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:03.720
<v Speaker 1>Right, and bright colors looks almost like a collage. But

0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:06.160
<v Speaker 1>then am I remember is that what that is? I

0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:07.480
<v Speaker 1>just think I just don't know the name.

0:31:07.800 --> 0:31:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh see, I just think of Metropolis so much that

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:12.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm actually now got to look up futurism art. See,

0:31:12.160 --> 0:31:13.920
<v Speaker 2>I know more about the politics of everything. Like at

0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:16.200
<v Speaker 2>one point, yeah, I know, you're right, bright colors and shit.

0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I was walking around this bookstore with my mom and

0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I was like telling her all the politics of all

0:31:22.040 --> 0:31:24.160
<v Speaker 2>the authors, and my mom was like, you know these

0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:28.280
<v Speaker 2>books are about and I'm like, no.

0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:31.320
<v Speaker 1>No way, I did I remember. I remember.

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:33.280
<v Speaker 3>Some of this stuff.

0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:34.960
<v Speaker 1>I just didn't know it was called futurism.

0:31:35.160 --> 0:31:36.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so.

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Maybe I was busy talking in class.

0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:45.600
<v Speaker 3>That was one of the days that you were just

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:49.160
<v Speaker 3>yapping those gums, flapping those gums.

0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:53.080
<v Speaker 2>See. When I was in art school, I had this roommate,

0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:55.920
<v Speaker 2>and he was a He wrote a neo futurist manifesto

0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:57.800
<v Speaker 2>and it was like super hierarchical, and then I got

0:31:57.800 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 2>really into anarchy and we got into these like fistfights

0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:01.520
<v Speaker 2>about it, and then in the end he became an

0:32:01.520 --> 0:32:04.000
<v Speaker 2>anarco futurist, where it was like all of the same

0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:07.040
<v Speaker 2>concept but instead it was like a galitarian m hmm,

0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:12.440
<v Speaker 2>well a similar thing happened before that, where so the

0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:17.000
<v Speaker 2>futures didn't start off Nazis, right, there's actually like interesting

0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:20.840
<v Speaker 2>ideological shit going on with the futurists, but they eventually

0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:23.480
<v Speaker 2>most of them are like a bunch of Nazis, and

0:32:24.040 --> 0:32:27.240
<v Speaker 2>so the Dadasts are like fuck you, like you suck,

0:32:27.960 --> 0:32:30.520
<v Speaker 2>and overall that kind of win this fight, like Dada

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:34.320
<v Speaker 2>is remembered and futurism is more of a footnote, you know.

0:32:36.000 --> 0:32:39.800
<v Speaker 2>There however, were a bunch of people involved in Data

0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:43.480
<v Speaker 2>who ended up not so good, including one Italian guy

0:32:43.640 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 2>who sided with the Dadists I think in the fight

0:32:45.960 --> 0:32:48.600
<v Speaker 2>against the futurists, because the futurism mostly comes from Italy,

0:32:49.160 --> 0:32:51.800
<v Speaker 2>like fascism, okay.

0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:52.720
<v Speaker 3>And.

0:32:54.360 --> 0:32:56.960
<v Speaker 2>There's someone who was personal friends with Zara who turned

0:32:56.960 --> 0:33:00.960
<v Speaker 2>out to be really no good, and his name is Julievola.

0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Julius Evola is like he's like the mysticism guy that

0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:09.600
<v Speaker 2>all the Nazis are into. He's the like if you

0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:11.840
<v Speaker 2>meet like people who are like into weird esoteric shit

0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:14.160
<v Speaker 2>where they think they're really deep and they're fucking fascists.

0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:18.800
<v Speaker 2>Avola is there, like guy, okay, gross, like fuck the

0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:21.360
<v Speaker 2>modern world, but not in a cool way where like

0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:24.360
<v Speaker 2>we're equal and live with nature, but instead in some

0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:31.080
<v Speaker 2>fucking weird way of being Nazis. That's my Julius Vola quote.

0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:32.680
<v Speaker 2>It's direct quote.

0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:33.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, verbatim.

0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:38.320
<v Speaker 2>I did the translation myself. I'm not great at Italian,

0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:40.360
<v Speaker 2>but I feel pretty confident.

0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:42.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah no, that sounds right.

0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So Avola took the anti rationalism of data and

0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:49.760
<v Speaker 2>instead of being like therefore freedom, he was like therefore fascism.

0:33:50.280 --> 0:33:52.160
<v Speaker 2>And we're not gonna deep dive him because he's not

0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:54.120
<v Speaker 2>a cool person did cool stuff. He's a bad but

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:56.840
<v Speaker 2>weird person who did bad but oddly banal stuff.

0:33:57.920 --> 0:34:01.680
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that should well spinoff podcast where is it.

0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:04.959
<v Speaker 2>Bad people did odd but banal stuff?

0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:06.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:13.040
<v Speaker 1>I bet I Yeah, I'm not doing a trilogy.

0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Anyway. Fuck that guy. Zara the cool one. By nineteen nineteen,

0:34:18.840 --> 0:34:21.000
<v Speaker 2>he leaves Switzerland to go hang because the war's over

0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:23.600
<v Speaker 2>and shit right, he goes go hang out with the

0:34:23.640 --> 0:34:26.080
<v Speaker 2>cool Paris dotsts who are like having the most fun

0:34:26.120 --> 0:34:28.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe and they and they start publishing a magazine with

0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:34.040
<v Speaker 2>fucking dog shit name. Literature is the name of their

0:34:34.080 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 2>magazine because they'll pretentious this fight. I hate it. Don't

0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:40.480
<v Speaker 2>name your magazine literature.

0:34:41.160 --> 0:34:44.680
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, that sounds so bass, you know, Oh yeah no,

0:34:44.800 --> 0:34:53.640
<v Speaker 3>totally yeah, yeah we stan we stan literature, yeah, but

0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:56.200
<v Speaker 3>dead ass Yeah.

0:34:56.080 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 2>By doing it there we.

0:34:57.000 --> 0:35:00.439
<v Speaker 1>Go probably say it with some there is.

0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Wait, I don't know, I've never heard that one.

0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 1>That's fine, it's it's what it's what jen, it's what

0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:10.719
<v Speaker 1>the youth use to shorten charisma. They call it the

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:12.080
<v Speaker 1>person has riz.

0:35:12.360 --> 0:35:14.480
<v Speaker 3>All right, all right, I mean that is creative.

0:35:14.680 --> 0:35:19.280
<v Speaker 1>That has been words My much uger, much cooler employees

0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:20.000
<v Speaker 1>have taught me.

0:35:22.680 --> 0:35:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Is compared to me, You're like older employer is like

0:35:25.800 --> 0:35:28.400
<v Speaker 2>I can tell you all about the drama in nineteen twenty,

0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:30.800
<v Speaker 2>and I don't know shit about what's happening in twenty twenty.

0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Listen, listen, find people who can do it all all

0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:38.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying I need I need it all in my

0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:39.640
<v Speaker 1>life because.

0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:43.440
<v Speaker 2>You're a girl boss. That's that's slang. But that's a

0:35:43.440 --> 0:35:45.960
<v Speaker 2>bad one. Now you're not that, because you're you're good.

0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Only there were a word for good, there isn't. We

0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:55.840
<v Speaker 2>just use the word good. So so the pure negation

0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:58.879
<v Speaker 2>of art that the Dadas were seeking soon turned into

0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:02.760
<v Speaker 2>a pure negation of each other over minor differences, which

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:05.440
<v Speaker 2>will surprise no one who's hung out in a cool

0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:10.520
<v Speaker 2>as fuck punk scene. Unfortunately, soon they're publishing like hit

0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:13.319
<v Speaker 2>pieces on each other being like but not like they're

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:15.319
<v Speaker 2>not like publishing hippies is on, like a vola, right,

0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 2>they're publishing hippiees is Onlike the way that you're interpreting

0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:22.399
<v Speaker 2>your particular interpretation of leftism is not the same as

0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:23.040
<v Speaker 2>mine or whatever.

0:36:23.719 --> 0:36:27.320
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So it's like Distracks basically of the nineteen twenties.

0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally and probably worse, although I don't know, I

0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:35.600
<v Speaker 2>mean some of it's kind of interesting and okay. So

0:36:35.600 --> 0:36:37.600
<v Speaker 2>basically you got Zara, who started off like kind of

0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:39.880
<v Speaker 2>leader of the Dadas, and then you've got Andre Berton,

0:36:39.960 --> 0:36:42.040
<v Speaker 2>who's going to end up the leader of the surrealists,

0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:47.440
<v Speaker 2>and he calls Zara an impostor and basically a clout chaser. Also,

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:50.960
<v Speaker 2>only historians call them leaders to be clear, like the

0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:54.040
<v Speaker 2>leader of it. Actually Breton might have called himself the leader,

0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:57.040
<v Speaker 2>but no, whatever, we'll get to it. He wasn't actually

0:36:57.040 --> 0:37:01.640
<v Speaker 2>the leader. Breton basically calls Zara an impostor and a

0:37:01.680 --> 0:37:05.680
<v Speaker 2>cloud chaser, which is probably true. The cloud chaser part.

0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:07.960
<v Speaker 2>There's no way you can call Zara an impostor with

0:37:08.080 --> 0:37:11.080
<v Speaker 2>data is it's like fifty to fifty. The name literally

0:37:11.080 --> 0:37:13.279
<v Speaker 2>comes from him going yes, yes, in a club right

0:37:15.120 --> 0:37:17.600
<v Speaker 2>this or that. Datas group started having trouble with each other,

0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:19.920
<v Speaker 2>they're like, no, you're out of the club. And they're like, no,

0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:21.799
<v Speaker 2>you're out of the club. Look, I'm crossing you off

0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:24.640
<v Speaker 2>the official roster. See that was your name, and now

0:37:24.640 --> 0:37:31.600
<v Speaker 2>there's a line through it, you know. And so, ladies, gentlemen,

0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:34.640
<v Speaker 2>and between of these, if your art movement has an

0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:36.920
<v Speaker 2>official roster, you asked for it.

0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:43.560
<v Speaker 3>That is not very art. I would say, yeah, totally

0:37:43.719 --> 0:37:44.320
<v Speaker 3>have a list.

0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:49.520
<v Speaker 1>And you also asked for these ads unless you have

0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:54.200
<v Speaker 1>cooler zone media. If you asked for just this ad transition.

0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:03.960
<v Speaker 2>And we're back so this occasionally gets physical. One of

0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Zara's plays gets disrupted by Breton and some furniture gets

0:38:07.640 --> 0:38:10.919
<v Speaker 2>smashed and the cops end up showing up. They also

0:38:11.000 --> 0:38:13.759
<v Speaker 2>like to fight about anarchism versus communism, although they all

0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:16.279
<v Speaker 2>keep changing their minds about like which where they're at

0:38:16.320 --> 0:38:19.839
<v Speaker 2>on any of these given spectrums, nothing ever changes. So

0:38:19.840 --> 0:38:23.880
<v Speaker 2>then in nineteen twenty two, Data threw its own funeral,

0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:30.080
<v Speaker 2>which I think is clisse. Hell. We're like they people,

0:38:30.040 --> 0:38:32.840
<v Speaker 2>We're done, explain like we did it. I's have a

0:38:32.840 --> 0:38:36.920
<v Speaker 2>funeral for Data. Data is done, okay, which actually to

0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 2>make it even more punk. In nineteen eighty two or no,

0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:43.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe in the seventies, Fuck, someone's gonna check my punk.

0:38:43.040 --> 0:38:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Cred Crass, an anarchist punk band from the UK, release

0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:49.719
<v Speaker 2>an album called Punk is Dead, and basically it was

0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:52.080
<v Speaker 2>like Punk's over and it was like before punk really

0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:58.280
<v Speaker 2>even like got going. But Data throws its own funeral

0:38:58.680 --> 0:39:00.640
<v Speaker 2>and the whole because the whole point it wasn't to

0:39:00.640 --> 0:39:02.279
<v Speaker 2>become a shitty art movement, but they had become a

0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:05.600
<v Speaker 2>shitty art movement. They're like, we're good, it's done, Dada

0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:10.880
<v Speaker 2>did its thing. We all go home now. And in

0:39:10.960 --> 0:39:14.080
<v Speaker 2>nineteen twenty four, when the Surrealist Manifesto comes out. It's

0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:20.560
<v Speaker 2>basically like surrealism has devoured data, which is not wrong. Okay,

0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:22.759
<v Speaker 2>But before we move to surrealism, I want to follow

0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:24.960
<v Speaker 2>up with Zara because he's cool and he doesn't take

0:39:25.000 --> 0:39:27.360
<v Speaker 2>center stage in surrealism quite the way he doesn't Dada,

0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:30.200
<v Speaker 2>mostly because Breton kind of won that fight and he's like,

0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:32.319
<v Speaker 2>fuck you, you're not a real surrealist or whatever the

0:39:32.320 --> 0:39:36.040
<v Speaker 2>fucking bullshit. He was stubbornly independent. He didn't like when

0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:38.399
<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties the surrealists were

0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:41.719
<v Speaker 2>like getting in with the Communist Party, and he kept

0:39:41.719 --> 0:39:45.279
<v Speaker 2>getting into fights with Breton. But soon they're all having

0:39:45.360 --> 0:39:50.120
<v Speaker 2>bigger problems, Nazi shape problems. By nineteen thirty three, he's like,

0:39:50.160 --> 0:39:53.680
<v Speaker 2>fuck it, communism, it's better than fascism. So he retires

0:39:53.680 --> 0:39:56.440
<v Speaker 2>from art promotion and he moves into anti fascist organizing.

0:39:57.360 --> 0:39:59.960
<v Speaker 2>He goes briefly over to Spain to join the en

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:02.279
<v Speaker 2>anti fascist forces in their war against Franco, which we've

0:40:02.280 --> 0:40:03.719
<v Speaker 2>talked about million times in the show, and I'll talk

0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:06.920
<v Speaker 2>about a little bit later in the script. And then

0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:09.600
<v Speaker 2>he comes back and he organizes benefits and he puts

0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:12.880
<v Speaker 2>out poetry anthologies of the world's most celebrated poets against

0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:15.600
<v Speaker 2>all this fascist shit. And he's just basically like, I'm

0:40:15.640 --> 0:40:18.040
<v Speaker 2>going to figure out how to leverage my art cred

0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:21.480
<v Speaker 2>to bring attention to the need to destroy fascism. And

0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:23.479
<v Speaker 2>this is before World War two, right, this is when

0:40:23.560 --> 0:40:27.920
<v Speaker 2>like this is one of the like before anti fashion,

0:40:28.239 --> 0:40:34.279
<v Speaker 2>anti fascism went mainstream. You know, when World War II

0:40:34.400 --> 0:40:37.000
<v Speaker 2>broke out, he went to southern France. The fact they

0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:39.200
<v Speaker 2>didn't fuck off entirely as a communist Jew and a

0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:43.480
<v Speaker 2>degenerate artist is probably testament to his courage slash partly

0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:46.839
<v Speaker 2>he probably had a hard time getting out. He joined

0:40:46.880 --> 0:40:50.200
<v Speaker 2>the resistance. He fought alongside the Maqui, which of the

0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:52.440
<v Speaker 2>Spanish rebels we talked about one of our episodes in

0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:56.480
<v Speaker 2>the Resistance to Franco. He ran the cultural broadcast for

0:40:56.560 --> 0:41:01.120
<v Speaker 2>the Free French Forces pirate radio station while his son

0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:04.000
<v Speaker 2>was fighting in the north of France against the fucking Nazis.

0:41:04.640 --> 0:41:06.800
<v Speaker 2>And at this point, as a Jew, he stripped of

0:41:06.840 --> 0:41:10.799
<v Speaker 2>his Romanian citizenship and his home country won't sell his books, right,

0:41:10.840 --> 0:41:12.960
<v Speaker 2>so he is like a man without a country. Fighting

0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:18.800
<v Speaker 2>desperately alongside his son against the fascists. And at this

0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:21.000
<v Speaker 2>point he's like, all right, I guess fucking I'm a communist.

0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:22.319
<v Speaker 2>Right and the war ends, He's like, I guess I'm

0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:26.520
<v Speaker 2>a communist. Have you ever heard of speaking of slang?

0:41:26.760 --> 0:41:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever heard of people talk about tankies?

0:41:29.760 --> 0:41:30.440
<v Speaker 3>I don't think so.

0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Wow, we live on such different corners of the Internet.

0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:33.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of jealous.

0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:38.320
<v Speaker 3>The corner of the Internet I live on is looking

0:41:38.560 --> 0:41:40.040
<v Speaker 3>at cat videos.

0:41:41.120 --> 0:41:47.880
<v Speaker 2>This is a better part if if, yeah, Sophie, you

0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:48.800
<v Speaker 2>ever heard of tankies?

0:41:49.840 --> 0:41:50.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:58.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So Tanky's is a pejorative for authoritarian communists, particularly Stalinists.

0:41:58.120 --> 0:42:01.720
<v Speaker 2>If there's like someone online who's being like like, Iran

0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:06.200
<v Speaker 2>is good because they hate the US or fucking the

0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:09.040
<v Speaker 2>shitty dictator of Syria what's his fucking name?

0:42:09.360 --> 0:42:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Asad?

0:42:10.880 --> 0:42:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Asad is good because he hates the US, or Russia

0:42:14.000 --> 0:42:17.080
<v Speaker 2>is good because they hate the US, right, Like, this

0:42:17.200 --> 0:42:19.759
<v Speaker 2>is a tanky position. This is a position that comes

0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:24.960
<v Speaker 2>from like weird old Cold war bullshit where they're like,

0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:28.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm just so completely whatever, I fucking hate them because

0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:32.799
<v Speaker 2>it's a nonsensical thing. Well, and it's for anyone who's

0:42:32.800 --> 0:42:35.040
<v Speaker 2>attracted to the image of like state power with lots

0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:39.000
<v Speaker 2>of lines of tanks and huge, big red flags and Shitay,

0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:42.239
<v Speaker 2>this piece of slang actually comes from the nineteen fifties.

0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:45.560
<v Speaker 2>It only got popular in the US thanks to Twitter,

0:42:45.880 --> 0:42:50.480
<v Speaker 2>which famously was not invented until sometime after the nineteen fifties.

0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:56.360
<v Speaker 2>I've heard that, yeah. In nineteen fifty six, there was

0:42:56.400 --> 0:43:00.520
<v Speaker 2>a huge uprising in Hungary against the Soviet Union, and

0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:04.080
<v Speaker 2>it came from all different types of Hungarians, and it

0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:07.280
<v Speaker 2>included a ton of leftists, including a ton of communists. Basically,

0:43:07.239 --> 0:43:10.600
<v Speaker 2>the USSR is bad, which is a reasonable position because

0:43:10.600 --> 0:43:16.680
<v Speaker 2>they are right. And this basically split the communists left

0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:18.440
<v Speaker 2>around the world, the people who don't live in the

0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Soviet Union. Also, half of them, the tankies approved, they

0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:26.279
<v Speaker 2>didn't call themselves as their opponents did, approved of the

0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:30.160
<v Speaker 2>USSR sending in tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution. The

0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:33.360
<v Speaker 2>other half, who might be called quote, people with the

0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:35.640
<v Speaker 2>reasonable understanding of the human desire for freedom and also

0:43:35.680 --> 0:43:38.320
<v Speaker 2>basic understanding of what communism is actually supposed to be about.

0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:45.480
<v Speaker 2>They supported the Hungarian Revolution. Zara supported the Hungarian Revolution,

0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:49.239
<v Speaker 2>which is a break from the Communist Party right. He

0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:51.680
<v Speaker 2>didn't entirely support it, but he supported it enough to

0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:57.439
<v Speaker 2>piss off the tankies any possible, like, hey, maybe it's

0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:00.360
<v Speaker 2>bad when they get murdered, is like an enough to

0:44:00.360 --> 0:44:04.200
<v Speaker 2>be like, how dare you question our supreme leader? You know? Yeah,

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:07.400
<v Speaker 2>And the Hungarian Revolution was mercilessly crushed by the authoritarian

0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:11.640
<v Speaker 2>forces of the USSR, and I think this kind of

0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:14.760
<v Speaker 2>breaks his heart, and he's just like, fuck it whatever,

0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:17.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm staying out of public life. Everything sucks, and he

0:44:17.320 --> 0:44:21.120
<v Speaker 2>just he keeps doing activism, he keeps fighting, fighting for decolonization,

0:44:21.200 --> 0:44:23.680
<v Speaker 2>which is like the main issue for a lot of

0:44:23.719 --> 0:44:24.200
<v Speaker 2>these people.

0:44:24.840 --> 0:44:25.120
<v Speaker 1>M h.

0:44:26.160 --> 0:44:27.839
<v Speaker 2>And then he makes it to his sixties and then

0:44:27.880 --> 0:44:30.720
<v Speaker 2>he does what everyone does eventually, which is die.

0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:34.040
<v Speaker 3>A lot of these for yourself again.

0:44:34.080 --> 0:44:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah no, I mean, well, I'm not speaking for myself.

0:44:35.840 --> 0:44:37.400
<v Speaker 2>I was around during all this stuff. I'm gonna be

0:44:37.400 --> 0:44:38.320
<v Speaker 2>around till the heat death.

0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Of the universe.

0:44:38.920 --> 0:44:40.400
<v Speaker 2>When I keep saying the show's gonna be around to

0:44:40.400 --> 0:44:41.680
<v Speaker 2>the heat death of the universe, I mean with me

0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:42.440
<v Speaker 2>as the host.

0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:45.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, obviously.

0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. It's because I grew up in the blood drinking

0:44:48.920 --> 0:44:51.000
<v Speaker 2>cult Catholicism, where everyone's a vampire.

0:44:51.520 --> 0:44:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Mmmm.

0:44:52.520 --> 0:44:55.279
<v Speaker 3>That's why I have so many spare legs. I'm just

0:44:56.200 --> 0:45:01.240
<v Speaker 3>sicking the blood out of them.

0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, you slowly went from the spider to centipede

0:45:05.200 --> 0:45:06.000
<v Speaker 2>to millipede.

0:45:07.120 --> 0:45:07.520
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm.

0:45:08.440 --> 0:45:12.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So now we're gonna leave data and go to surrealism.

0:45:14.080 --> 0:45:16.200
<v Speaker 2>What the fuck is surrealism. It's got all these notable

0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:18.719
<v Speaker 2>characteristics we've talked about. It's all about the unfettered and

0:45:18.800 --> 0:45:22.360
<v Speaker 2>unfiltered imagination. It's about freedom of people's bodies and minds.

0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:25.280
<v Speaker 2>It's about dreams. It's about automatic writing, it's about channeled

0:45:25.280 --> 0:45:28.880
<v Speaker 2>forms of expression. It's about the juxtaposition of the ordinary

0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:32.920
<v Speaker 2>until it is no longer ordinary. Basically, if data is

0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:36.960
<v Speaker 2>like a fundamentally nihilist rejection of the existent, surrealism is

0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:40.280
<v Speaker 2>a way to dream possible alternatives, a way to dream

0:45:40.360 --> 0:45:43.759
<v Speaker 2>up and manifest the impossible. So like going back to

0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:45.880
<v Speaker 2>utopianism in a way, but instead of it being kind

0:45:45.880 --> 0:45:48.200
<v Speaker 2>of like we're gonna build the workers Paradise, it's a

0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:50.759
<v Speaker 2>little bit more like, yes, but we're gonna do that

0:45:50.800 --> 0:45:54.480
<v Speaker 2>by like living our impossible dreams, like nothing is impossible,

0:45:54.640 --> 0:45:59.319
<v Speaker 2>because reality itself is something that we can shape. I

0:45:59.320 --> 0:46:01.080
<v Speaker 2>I knew, I like surrealism. And then the more I

0:46:01.120 --> 0:46:04.239
<v Speaker 2>research this shit, the more I'm like, these people fucking rule.

0:46:07.360 --> 0:46:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Some of them who some of the folks that started

0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:11.719
<v Speaker 2>out with were some of the data folks who were

0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:14.080
<v Speaker 2>med students in Paris, and they were super into art

0:46:14.200 --> 0:46:16.080
<v Speaker 2>and all this shit. But they're also into all this

0:46:16.080 --> 0:46:19.480
<v Speaker 2>new psychoanalysis stuff that's going around. They've been doing automatic

0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:21.680
<v Speaker 2>writing and we're starting to wonder if there's more to

0:46:21.719 --> 0:46:25.120
<v Speaker 2>reality than what gets presented as reality. And they're into

0:46:25.160 --> 0:46:28.320
<v Speaker 2>the idea that somewhere between the conscious and unconscious is

0:46:28.360 --> 0:46:32.200
<v Speaker 2>a third thing, like the meme, Like, you know, do

0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:33.640
<v Speaker 2>you want this without or do you want the secret

0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:34.040
<v Speaker 2>third thing?

0:46:34.960 --> 0:46:35.160
<v Speaker 3>Mm.

0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:39.760
<v Speaker 2>The thing that they're trying to create is a surrealist revolution,

0:46:40.160 --> 0:46:43.440
<v Speaker 2>a new way to find a higher reality, that space

0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:46.880
<v Speaker 2>between the conscious and the unconscious. And they realize that

0:46:46.920 --> 0:46:49.879
<v Speaker 2>exploitation and inequality is what's standing in the way of that.

0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:52.600
<v Speaker 2>So it's not just a spiritual revolution, but a physical

0:46:52.640 --> 0:46:54.759
<v Speaker 2>material one. It's like it's like one of the things

0:46:54.760 --> 0:46:56.279
<v Speaker 2>that the most of the hippies got right, but like

0:46:56.320 --> 0:46:59.920
<v Speaker 2>our memory of the Hippies is a society thinks they

0:47:00.120 --> 0:47:02.920
<v Speaker 2>only cared about like getting high and like opening the

0:47:02.960 --> 0:47:06.560
<v Speaker 2>doors of perception or whatever, you know, right right, actually

0:47:06.600 --> 0:47:08.359
<v Speaker 2>a good chunk of them. We're like, actually, we can't

0:47:08.360 --> 0:47:10.759
<v Speaker 2>do that until we like the everyone's free. But you know,

0:47:12.440 --> 0:47:15.360
<v Speaker 2>they called what they were fighting for the marvelous with

0:47:15.480 --> 0:47:19.160
<v Speaker 2>a capital M. And this is contrasted with its opponent,

0:47:19.280 --> 0:47:24.840
<v Speaker 2>basically miserable miserableism, which also is a capital M. Okay,

0:47:25.680 --> 0:47:28.520
<v Speaker 2>I want to quote a living surrealist author, Ron Skakowski.

0:47:29.800 --> 0:47:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Miserableism is a system that produces misery and then rationalizes

0:47:33.520 --> 0:47:36.480
<v Speaker 2>it by perpetuating the idea that such misery comprises the

0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:41.840
<v Speaker 2>only possible reality. It's basically like, oh, everything sucks, but

0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:42.919
<v Speaker 2>it's just that's the.

0:47:42.840 --> 0:47:44.279
<v Speaker 3>Way it is, how it is.

0:47:44.520 --> 0:47:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And so this to the surrealis absolutely includes

0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:53.800
<v Speaker 2>the art world. The art world is part of miserableism

0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:56.200
<v Speaker 2>when it all starts to kick off in nineteen twenty four,

0:47:56.320 --> 0:47:58.399
<v Speaker 2>Like when they have the Surrealist Manifesto. They've been doing

0:47:58.440 --> 0:48:00.960
<v Speaker 2>the ship for a while, right, but when they kind

0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:04.640
<v Speaker 2>of put the name to it, it's still slightly apolitical.

0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:08.400
<v Speaker 2>They had anarchist assassin heroes and shit, but they hadn't

0:48:08.520 --> 0:48:11.480
<v Speaker 2>quite been Like, surrealism is revolution in a literal sense,

0:48:12.239 --> 0:48:17.360
<v Speaker 2>this only lasted a couple months. The inciting incident was

0:48:17.400 --> 0:48:21.319
<v Speaker 2>the Riff War, which was this anti colonial uprising by

0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:23.880
<v Speaker 2>the Berbers in northern Morocco. And the reason it's interesting

0:48:23.880 --> 0:48:26.120
<v Speaker 2>to me is that like we tend to think of

0:48:27.440 --> 0:48:30.239
<v Speaker 2>white Europeans as only caring about white europe you know,

0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:34.360
<v Speaker 2>m h. But like radicals at the time were absolutely

0:48:34.440 --> 0:48:38.840
<v Speaker 2>paying attention to and sometimes participants in anti colonial struggle,

0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:42.640
<v Speaker 2>not as much as the Eventually, I'm hoping I'll do

0:48:42.719 --> 0:48:44.000
<v Speaker 2>a whole thing on the Riftwar and a bunch of

0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:48.799
<v Speaker 2>these anti colonial revolutions, But like, basically, the Berbers in

0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:50.880
<v Speaker 2>northern Morocco are like, all right, we're getting rid of

0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:54.279
<v Speaker 2>this fucking government, the colonial government. We're gonna get rid

0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:57.160
<v Speaker 2>of the Spanish right, and they've been fighting against the

0:48:57.160 --> 0:49:00.799
<v Speaker 2>Spanish for several years. But by nine teen twenty five

0:49:01.320 --> 0:49:05.200
<v Speaker 2>they attacked French colonial holdings too, because France also was

0:49:05.360 --> 0:49:10.440
<v Speaker 2>stealing a bunch of their shit. In two weeks, they

0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:12.719
<v Speaker 2>drove the French out of forty of their sixty six

0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:16.719
<v Speaker 2>military bases and killed, injured or captured twenty percent of

0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:20.319
<v Speaker 2>the French forces in the region, which is they are

0:49:20.360 --> 0:49:24.040
<v Speaker 2>like outnumbered and outgunned substantially, and they're just like fucking

0:49:24.120 --> 0:49:25.080
<v Speaker 2>kicking ass.

0:49:25.360 --> 0:49:26.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:49:27.160 --> 0:49:30.880
<v Speaker 2>But the problem here is that France and Spain were

0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:34.000
<v Speaker 2>quite excited to get willing, quite willing to put aside

0:49:34.000 --> 0:49:37.920
<v Speaker 2>their differences and work together to smash this rebellion. And

0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:39.640
<v Speaker 2>they had the numbers and the guns, and they put

0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:44.120
<v Speaker 2>down the uprising by nineteen twenty six. But along the way,

0:49:44.160 --> 0:49:48.359
<v Speaker 2>the Surrealists are like, we fucking like these people, the

0:49:48.400 --> 0:49:51.120
<v Speaker 2>marvelous demands. We fight miserableism with guns if need be,

0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:57.640
<v Speaker 2>or to quote them more directly, quote we Surrealists pronounced

0:49:57.640 --> 0:50:00.640
<v Speaker 2>ourselves in favor of changing the imperialist war in its

0:50:00.680 --> 0:50:04.719
<v Speaker 2>chronic and colonial form into a civil war. Thus we

0:50:04.800 --> 0:50:07.160
<v Speaker 2>placed our energies at the disposal of the revolution of

0:50:07.200 --> 0:50:09.600
<v Speaker 2>the proletariat and its struggles, and to find our attitude

0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:13.480
<v Speaker 2>towards the colonial problem and hence towards the color question,

0:50:15.320 --> 0:50:18.640
<v Speaker 2>which I really like the like, oh, yeah, this imperialist

0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:21.360
<v Speaker 2>war whatever becomes a fucking civil war, huh fuck you

0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:25.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, which they didn't pull off, right, but like

0:50:26.680 --> 0:50:27.520
<v Speaker 2>most people don't.

0:50:27.960 --> 0:50:28.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:50:28.640 --> 0:50:30.279
<v Speaker 2>And it means that the Surrealists started off as an

0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:34.400
<v Speaker 2>explicitly anti racist organization. Their first specific thing was the

0:50:34.400 --> 0:50:40.600
<v Speaker 2>color question, right mm hm, And they started off okay. So,

0:50:40.719 --> 0:50:44.040
<v Speaker 2>like the other thing that happened whiles researching this is

0:50:44.080 --> 0:50:46.520
<v Speaker 2>that I like start off with all these like there's

0:50:46.560 --> 0:50:48.400
<v Speaker 2>like the art world assumptions of everything that I had

0:50:48.400 --> 0:50:51.200
<v Speaker 2>heard about surrealists, which is like Dali the only surrealist

0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:53.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, and then there's the like kind of like

0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:56.680
<v Speaker 2>vague Okay, they were people, and they had this politics

0:50:56.680 --> 0:50:59.239
<v Speaker 2>and stuff, and it turns out most of what I

0:50:59.320 --> 0:51:02.839
<v Speaker 2>learned from that was all so wrong, right, okay, Because

0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:04.600
<v Speaker 2>like one of the things that you read about is

0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:07.560
<v Speaker 2>that it started off like a total boys club, but

0:51:07.680 --> 0:51:11.880
<v Speaker 2>it it didn't start off as a boys club. It

0:51:11.960 --> 0:51:14.320
<v Speaker 2>started with women and men both. The very first issue

0:51:14.320 --> 0:51:17.800
<v Speaker 2>of the magazine, Surrealist Revolution had women and had women

0:51:17.800 --> 0:51:21.480
<v Speaker 2>and men both in it. Women were left out of

0:51:21.520 --> 0:51:26.440
<v Speaker 2>the press about the organization by two groups I know,

0:51:27.320 --> 0:51:29.640
<v Speaker 2>and it's by the exactly the two groups you'd expect.

0:51:29.640 --> 0:51:32.680
<v Speaker 2>One the guys in the club who kind of wanted

0:51:32.680 --> 0:51:35.520
<v Speaker 2>to put up a no girl's allowed sign, right, and

0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:37.080
<v Speaker 2>they were like, oh no, it's us, And they're like

0:51:37.080 --> 0:51:38.879
<v Speaker 2>shouldering each other out of the way to be like ah,

0:51:38.920 --> 0:51:42.600
<v Speaker 2>it's all us, you know, and also by the press

0:51:42.640 --> 0:51:44.239
<v Speaker 2>who just fucking ate it up and just want to

0:51:44.280 --> 0:51:51.360
<v Speaker 2>talk about boys in their paintings, you know, storing. Yeah, yeah, no,

0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:53.160
<v Speaker 2>I like genuinely, I was like, oh, I'm gonna have

0:51:53.160 --> 0:51:55.600
<v Speaker 2>to like fast forward through all the fucking boys club shit,

0:51:55.640 --> 0:51:58.680
<v Speaker 2>and then I'm like, oh, there was like people who

0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:00.719
<v Speaker 2>tried to make it a boy's club and they didn't succeed.

0:52:02.120 --> 0:52:03.120
<v Speaker 3>Okay, good.

0:52:03.880 --> 0:52:07.200
<v Speaker 2>The only people writing about women's surrealists were the surrealists,

0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:10.200
<v Speaker 2>both women and men. The art critics were ignoring them,

0:52:10.760 --> 0:52:13.480
<v Speaker 2>essentially until the women's liberation movement in the sixties and seventies,

0:52:13.719 --> 0:52:16.600
<v Speaker 2>when suddenly you start having people go back in history

0:52:16.640 --> 0:52:19.759
<v Speaker 2>and be like, oh, actually, there was literally hundreds of

0:52:19.800 --> 0:52:22.920
<v Speaker 2>women involved in all of their fucking art exhibits, like,

0:52:23.840 --> 0:52:28.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, like every every step of the way. M hm,

0:52:29.320 --> 0:52:30.120
<v Speaker 2>one kind of wow.

0:52:30.200 --> 0:52:32.240
<v Speaker 3>Women exist and did things.

0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they weren't just muses. And one of the problems

0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:38.560
<v Speaker 2>that surrealist had is that they put women on pedestals

0:52:38.560 --> 0:52:40.280
<v Speaker 2>and would be like, the women is the most beautiful,

0:52:40.320 --> 0:52:42.560
<v Speaker 2>perfect thing, and blah blah blah, we need muses or whatever,

0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:44.040
<v Speaker 2>and then these like women would be like, I'm not

0:52:44.080 --> 0:52:46.160
<v Speaker 2>your fucking muse, I'm an artist who And then like

0:52:47.000 --> 0:52:50.520
<v Speaker 2>most of them, men were like, oh that's cool, oh interesting,

0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:54.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah you don't say I know. Some of them are

0:52:54.760 --> 0:52:58.840
<v Speaker 2>probably like, no, never mind, you're not fun anymore. I

0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:02.600
<v Speaker 2>can't wait you speak have thoughts, yeah, leave me alone.

0:53:04.120 --> 0:53:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Or they'd be like, yes, I want your unfiltered, chaotic

0:53:06.840 --> 0:53:09.160
<v Speaker 2>womanly thoughts. Just I get to be.

0:53:09.040 --> 0:53:12.760
<v Speaker 3>The one to write them down, rolling my eyes.

0:53:13.480 --> 0:53:18.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. One commenter who was quoted in the book Surrealist

0:53:18.080 --> 0:53:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Women pointed out quote, no comparable movement outside of specifically

0:53:22.400 --> 0:53:25.440
<v Speaker 2>feminist organizations has had such a high proportion of active

0:53:25.480 --> 0:53:31.040
<v Speaker 2>women participants, and the ignoring of these women surrealists actually

0:53:31.040 --> 0:53:34.120
<v Speaker 2>ties into the misreading of Surrealism that mainstream society has

0:53:34.520 --> 0:53:38.040
<v Speaker 2>that is just the painters. This, of course, was actively

0:53:38.520 --> 0:53:42.479
<v Speaker 2>perpetuated in the US by veteran enemy of the pod

0:53:42.960 --> 0:53:48.120
<v Speaker 2>solid Or Dali, who once said, I know this is

0:53:49.239 --> 0:53:51.120
<v Speaker 2>he obviously had his even worse quotes, but this one's

0:53:51.160 --> 0:53:53.560
<v Speaker 2>not great. He wants a talent to store it in

0:53:53.600 --> 0:54:02.600
<v Speaker 2>the balls. This guy saw it really sucks so bad,

0:54:03.040 --> 0:54:04.719
<v Speaker 2>and so he was like, he wrote that about like

0:54:04.760 --> 0:54:07.600
<v Speaker 2>a specific I forgot to write there's like a specific

0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:09.879
<v Speaker 2>woman where he was like, I guess she's all right

0:54:09.960 --> 0:54:13.480
<v Speaker 2>for a girl, but no girl can be truly fantastic,

0:54:13.560 --> 0:54:16.600
<v Speaker 2>because you know, talent is stored in the balls or whatever.

0:54:17.280 --> 0:54:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, which is why you have that talisman

0:54:20.520 --> 0:54:25.960
<v Speaker 2>of balls They castrated off of men the only way to.

0:54:25.960 --> 0:54:28.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's like, okay, all your talent is and your balls,

0:54:28.760 --> 0:54:30.640
<v Speaker 3>well then what if I kick them?

0:54:31.040 --> 0:54:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, you know, And so most of the women

0:54:39.080 --> 0:54:41.400
<v Speaker 2>are sorry. More of the women were more likely to

0:54:41.400 --> 0:54:45.640
<v Speaker 2>be writers, especially poets, but also theorists. But there's also

0:54:45.680 --> 0:54:48.680
<v Speaker 2>a ton of painters and photographers too. Literally hundreds of

0:54:48.680 --> 0:54:50.600
<v Speaker 2>women were part of the surrealist movement in his heyday.

0:54:52.239 --> 0:54:55.160
<v Speaker 2>And the surrealist historian I've gotten the most out of

0:54:55.200 --> 0:54:58.120
<v Speaker 2>during my research in these episodes is Penelope Rosemont, and

0:54:58.160 --> 0:55:00.640
<v Speaker 2>she stresses that Surrealism has been mis presented by the

0:55:00.640 --> 0:55:03.400
<v Speaker 2>press and turned into a drama of like splits and

0:55:03.400 --> 0:55:09.560
<v Speaker 2>purges that represent Andre Breton as an authoritarian leader. Penelope

0:55:09.640 --> 0:55:13.880
<v Speaker 2>says about this, from its first day, Surrealism as an

0:55:13.960 --> 0:55:17.759
<v Speaker 2>organized movement was itself a free association. She says that

0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:21.360
<v Speaker 2>even the surrealists who like left angry still described it

0:55:21.360 --> 0:55:24.319
<v Speaker 2>as a free community which practiced collective decision making and

0:55:24.400 --> 0:55:29.360
<v Speaker 2>encouraged the active participation of all. It saw itself not

0:55:29.440 --> 0:55:33.000
<v Speaker 2>as a style of art, but a community of ethical views.

0:55:33.760 --> 0:55:36.920
<v Speaker 2>So it's like, Okay, if you're trying to create the marvelous,

0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:38.759
<v Speaker 2>you're one of us.

0:55:39.080 --> 0:55:39.359
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:55:40.880 --> 0:55:43.960
<v Speaker 2>That said. Some of the participants of early surrealism were

0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:47.759
<v Speaker 2>absolutely all about the drama and splits and all about

0:55:47.760 --> 0:55:49.799
<v Speaker 2>gaykeeping and all about like sitting there and crossing off

0:55:49.880 --> 0:55:52.200
<v Speaker 2>names and be like, no, you're not see you got

0:55:52.280 --> 0:55:54.719
<v Speaker 2>crussed off. And we'll talk about that, but only a

0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:56.799
<v Speaker 2>little bit because it's less interesting to me than their

0:55:56.800 --> 0:56:00.280
<v Speaker 2>lives and what they fought for, which we'll get into

0:56:00.080 --> 0:56:01.719
<v Speaker 2>you on Wednesday.

0:56:03.040 --> 0:56:04.760
<v Speaker 3>Wow, I can't wait.

0:56:06.080 --> 0:56:07.719
<v Speaker 2>Well you, I was gonna say you have to, but

0:56:07.800 --> 0:56:10.080
<v Speaker 2>you actually don't have to. Everyone else has to.

0:56:10.560 --> 0:56:12.040
<v Speaker 3>But we're going right into this, I.

0:56:13.160 --> 0:56:19.720
<v Speaker 2>Know, only after we first hear about you, Haylen.

0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:28.680
<v Speaker 3>It's me. I am someone who also hosts a podcast

0:56:28.840 --> 0:56:32.439
<v Speaker 3>which you can listen to if you want. It's called

0:56:32.440 --> 0:56:37.880
<v Speaker 3>the Bechdel Cast, and we talk about movies and examine

0:56:37.880 --> 0:56:42.040
<v Speaker 3>them through an intersectional feminist lens. And by we I

0:56:42.080 --> 0:56:48.920
<v Speaker 3>mean myself and I co host Jamie Loftis, and usually

0:56:49.000 --> 0:56:51.360
<v Speaker 3>I just you know, it's oh gosh, it's a hoot.

0:56:53.480 --> 0:56:57.040
<v Speaker 3>I talk more so, I feel like I've been very

0:56:57.080 --> 0:57:02.520
<v Speaker 3>quiet today. I my COVID brain fog is at an

0:57:02.560 --> 0:57:04.040
<v Speaker 3>all time high.

0:57:04.400 --> 0:57:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Congrats right now, sorry.

0:57:05.800 --> 0:57:10.799
<v Speaker 3>And thank you so much. But you know, on this

0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:13.280
<v Speaker 3>next episode, I just need a drink of water, I think,

0:57:13.440 --> 0:57:16.200
<v Speaker 3>and then I'm going to be so I'm going to

0:57:16.280 --> 0:57:22.640
<v Speaker 3>be saying so many brilliant things. And yeah, also follow

0:57:22.680 --> 0:57:27.800
<v Speaker 3>me on Instagram. I don't know, it doesn't matter, Okay,

0:57:28.200 --> 0:57:28.640
<v Speaker 3>the end.

0:57:31.400 --> 0:57:34.400
<v Speaker 2>I have a project that's probably kickstarting when this is released,

0:57:34.400 --> 0:57:37.680
<v Speaker 2>but I can't remember all the details about schedules of

0:57:37.840 --> 0:57:41.120
<v Speaker 2>either part of it, both the kickstarter or this show

0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:45.840
<v Speaker 2>nice and so it's either going to happen soon or

0:57:45.920 --> 0:57:48.640
<v Speaker 2>happening now or already happened. But either way, you can

0:57:48.720 --> 0:57:53.080
<v Speaker 2>still get this thing I'm writing. I'm doing like world

0:57:53.080 --> 0:57:55.520
<v Speaker 2>building writing for a board game called Defenders of the

0:57:55.520 --> 0:57:58.760
<v Speaker 2>Wild from Outlandish Games, and it has a companion role

0:57:58.760 --> 0:58:00.440
<v Speaker 2>playing game book. Yeah, I'm really excited about it. It's

0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:03.320
<v Speaker 2>like a by the makers of Block by Block, which

0:58:03.360 --> 0:58:05.920
<v Speaker 2>is like a game of a board game of Revolt

0:58:06.160 --> 0:58:08.480
<v Speaker 2>but this one is like you can be like a

0:58:08.520 --> 0:58:10.560
<v Speaker 2>fox with the bow and arrow fighting against machines that

0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:12.560
<v Speaker 2>are trying to enclose all the land and like kill

0:58:12.560 --> 0:58:17.000
<v Speaker 2>all the animals and like whoa, it's really fun and

0:58:17.080 --> 0:58:21.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm helping develop the role playing game world alongside a

0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:25.560
<v Speaker 2>really incredible team of people, and it's like super profession

0:58:25.720 --> 0:58:28.000
<v Speaker 2>like super cool and good. And you can check it

0:58:28.000 --> 0:58:32.480
<v Speaker 2>out by searching Defenders of the Wild Outlandish Games, and

0:58:32.520 --> 0:58:35.440
<v Speaker 2>you can sign up for information about it, or it's

0:58:35.480 --> 0:58:38.040
<v Speaker 2>already happening and you can back it, or it already happened,

0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:43.200
<v Speaker 2>and you can probably still buy it or convince someone

0:58:43.200 --> 0:58:44.240
<v Speaker 2>else to buy it so you can come over to

0:58:44.240 --> 0:58:48.000
<v Speaker 2>their house and play it. Because how can you call

0:58:48.040 --> 0:58:50.320
<v Speaker 2>yourself polyamorous if you don't have a board game night.

0:58:50.360 --> 0:58:51.720
<v Speaker 2>This is not true. I actually don't have a board

0:58:51.720 --> 0:58:54.680
<v Speaker 2>game night. Well I guess I do have a role

0:58:54.680 --> 0:58:55.000
<v Speaker 2>playing game.

0:58:55.160 --> 0:58:56.080
<v Speaker 3>I actually kind of do.

0:58:56.200 --> 0:58:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh nice.

0:58:57.280 --> 0:59:01.640
<v Speaker 3>I have some friends. We almost exclusively play Catan. Okay,

0:59:02.840 --> 0:59:08.440
<v Speaker 3>but for now, for now, yes, until I get my

0:59:08.720 --> 0:59:10.960
<v Speaker 3>grubby little fingers on your game.

0:59:11.360 --> 0:59:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Hell yeah, Sophie, what do you got ah?

0:59:18.680 --> 0:59:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Cooler Zone Media, Cool Zone Media at cool Zone Media,

0:59:22.720 --> 0:59:24.040
<v Speaker 1>cool Zonmedia dot com.

0:59:24.960 --> 0:59:27.680
<v Speaker 2>What about Coolest Zone Media. I'm stealing a joke from

0:59:27.760 --> 0:59:28.800
<v Speaker 2>James Stout.

0:59:29.040 --> 0:59:31.320
<v Speaker 1>We haven't invented that yet, but it's coming.

0:59:32.680 --> 0:59:35.960
<v Speaker 3>So many new things. We've got Coolest Zone Media on

0:59:36.040 --> 0:59:40.480
<v Speaker 3>the horizon. We've got bad people who did what was

0:59:40.520 --> 0:59:41.920
<v Speaker 3>it called again something banal?

0:59:42.080 --> 0:59:47.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, bad people who did bad things. The Julius Vola

0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:54.560
<v Speaker 2>podcast mm hmmmm, Great Edge Lords of History. Huh. I

0:59:54.600 --> 0:59:56.440
<v Speaker 2>actually don't want to host that or listen to.

0:59:56.400 --> 0:59:58.760
<v Speaker 3>It, but I don't want to hear anything about it.

0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:02.480
<v Speaker 1>I decline the It's not dream Lit, Not not Not

1:00:02.640 --> 1:00:10.439
<v Speaker 1>on Red Light Boom podcast over Wednesday. Cool People Who

1:00:10.480 --> 1:00:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:00:13.320 --> 1:00:16.200
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website

1:00:16.320 --> 1:00:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:22.880
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