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Speaker 1: Whole Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to cool spiders that infest Sophie's basement

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Speaker 2: with the occasional centipede house centipedes. Ideally, I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy, and today we are not talking about bugs,

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Speaker 2: not talking.

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Speaker 1: About my current trauma.

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Speaker 2: Nope, I'm really allergic to spider bites.

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Speaker 1: I don't hate them as a concept, but spiders and

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Speaker 1: mer are not compatible.

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Speaker 2: My first real viral post on Instagram was at my

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Speaker 2: old cabin. I had this like tiny dollhouse mirror that

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Speaker 2: I had. I have no idea why I had a

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Speaker 2: dollhouse mayor, and I glued it right to the inside.

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Speaker 1: Of my door, and did you catch a spider?

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Speaker 2: No? I put a I wrote a sign above it

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Speaker 2: that said spiders must be smaller than this mirror, denied entry.

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Speaker 1: Did it work?

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Speaker 2: I think?

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Speaker 1: So? Oh, maybe that's what I should have done instead of,

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Speaker 1: you know, just having this horrible incompatibility that I'm having.

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Speaker 1: But I would need like a really really tiny, tiny

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Speaker 1: mirror because all them, yeah and I are not compatible.

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Speaker 1: But you know who I am compatible with is our guests?

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Speaker 2: Is it Caitlin? It's Caitlin Hi, Caitlin.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Caitlyn Kayln, you can. You can infest my house

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Speaker 1: anytime you want.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, and I don't have eight legs.

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Speaker 2: Or that we know of that, not with that attitude.

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Speaker 2: You don't. Oh true, get yourself a hack song. No

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Speaker 2: one said they have to be attached.

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Speaker 3: You know what, You're right in that case, I have

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Speaker 3: dozens of legs. Yeah, that centipede was so big, so big.

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Speaker 2: So today. Caitlin Durante's our guest.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Caitlin, Hi, Kaitln, Hello, thanks for having me back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Sophie's our producer.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Sophie, I'm traumatized.

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Speaker 2: Hello. Ian is our audio, Hi Ian yay Ian Hi

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Speaker 2: Ian Hi Un woman wrote our theme song. And this

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Speaker 2: is part three of our deep and meandering dive into

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Speaker 2: the Surrealists, the art movement that didn't see itself as

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Speaker 2: an art movement that was cool as hell and gay

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Speaker 2: as hell and anti fascist as hell. Normally, I could

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Speaker 2: be like, oh, I'll catch you up with exactly where

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Speaker 2: we're at in the plot. But we're doing it meandering,

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Speaker 2: We're doing it surrealistly. Last time, I called these episodes

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Speaker 2: a drive, which comes from the situationists who followed the

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Speaker 2: Surrealists in their footsteps right, although they like to argue

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Speaker 2: about it and they got in all these fights when

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Speaker 2: they overlapped. It was fun, but that's not what we're

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Speaker 2: gonna talk about today. But instead I was like, maybe

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Speaker 2: this isn't a jerief. Maybe it is a different, other

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Speaker 2: fancy word for Margaret has adhd, And this episode is

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Speaker 2: a perfect excuse to revel in that because it's about surrealists.

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Speaker 2: That word is the exquisite corpse, speaking of having too

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Speaker 2: many limbs that aren't attached to people. Kate Len, are

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Speaker 2: you familiar with the exquisite corpse? I am not even

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Speaker 2: a little bit. Okay, it has nothing to do with

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Speaker 2: its name. Okay, they're fucking surrealists.

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Speaker 3: Wait, exquisite corpse. Yeah, I'll explain it, okay, please Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Or in French it would be called a cadavre EXI,

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Speaker 2: but I don't speak French besides one bag at please,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I don't speak French, which is what I

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Speaker 2: said every day all you need to know about a

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Speaker 2: month in France, and that's what I used to get

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Speaker 2: around that.

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Speaker 3: And Spanish nice, which I also used Spanish because a

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Speaker 3: woman I spoke to who didn't speak English, but spoke Spanish,

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Speaker 3: and I spoke enough Spanish to be able to tell

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Speaker 3: her where the bathroom was at the bar, that I

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Speaker 3: was doing a comedy show at Excellent.

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Speaker 2: All you need that and baguettes.

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Speaker 3: All you need is bread.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So the Exquisite Corpse is something between a party

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Speaker 2: game and a method of creating collaborative art. I've only

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Speaker 2: played it as a party game, but it's done by

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Speaker 2: people who like actually draw well. And then it's coole

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Speaker 2: as fuck's realist.

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Speaker 3: Start.

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Speaker 2: You ever played the party game where you like start

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Speaker 2: drawing at the top of the piece of paper and

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Speaker 2: then you fold it so only the little two lines

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Speaker 2: are showing, and then hand it to the next person.

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Speaker 3: It sounds familiar, but I don't think i've actually played.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I've just observed.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's really fun. That's the game of Exquisite Corpse.

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Speaker 2: You draw something at the top of the piece of paper,

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Speaker 2: you fold it so only the very very edge of

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Speaker 2: what you draw is visible. The next person continues that

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Speaker 2: little bit, and since they're starting with the connecting lines

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Speaker 2: from the previous person, the things are like completely unrelated,

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Speaker 2: but they line up, you know. And sometimes you'll start

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Speaker 2: by being like all right, we're drawing a person, you know,

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Speaker 2: So there's like some semblance of creating a form, but

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Speaker 2: other times you don't. You have a thing that starts

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Speaker 2: off as a clouds, and then it's an elephant, and

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Speaker 2: then it's the abyss. I don't know. You can also

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Speaker 2: do it with writing. You can write a sentence and

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Speaker 2: then the first word of the next sentence or paragraph

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Speaker 2: where only the last line is visible or whatever, and.

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Speaker 3: It's okay, that's I think that's the version I'm more

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Speaker 3: familiar with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you hang out with sober people, this is

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Speaker 2: the kind of thing that they get up to when

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Speaker 2: they are at a party because there's no other social

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Speaker 2: lubricant available. I guess I don't know. It's true.

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Speaker 3: Alcohol is the only thing that you need just together,

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Speaker 3: I said, drunkenly. No, I'm not stone, I'm not drunk

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Speaker 3: at this moment.

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Speaker 2: Congrets you so okay. The strange name, the Exquisite Corpse,

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Speaker 2: it just comes from one of the first times they

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Speaker 2: played it, which they played it as a written game

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Speaker 2: for a while, and it generated the sentence the Exquisite

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Speaker 2: Corpse will drink the new wine and like these are

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Speaker 2: a bunch of like bastard countercultural rich kids, right, mostly

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Speaker 2: so they're convinced they've unlocked like the secrets of the

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Speaker 2: universe with this game, right, and so they give it

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Speaker 2: this grandiose name, but it's really fun. Most of them

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Speaker 2: claim it was invented in nineteen twenty five, with like

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Speaker 2: there's like lists where it's like the five specific guys,

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Speaker 2: all guys were there when the Exquisite Corpse was generated

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Speaker 2: by our unconscious genius or whatever. Later someone was like, nah,

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Speaker 2: we've been playing this game since nineteen eighteen, well, and

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Speaker 2: which you know just doesn't line up as well to

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Speaker 2: like clout chasing basically.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 2: So the surrealists are usually presented as if there's this

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Speaker 2: like clean cut line in the sand where like there's

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Speaker 2: like no surrealism, and then in nineteen twenty four of

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Speaker 2: their surrealism, right, there's like a before and after of

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Speaker 2: the creation of surrealism. And this is not the case.

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Speaker 2: The word surrealism actually comes from some theat or stuff

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Speaker 2: that I didn't write down the details of because it

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Speaker 2: seemed like a tangent that my brain couldn't handle at

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Speaker 2: that particular moment. But it and it wasn't even like

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Speaker 2: the founders of surrealism who necessarily coined that phrase. Right,

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Speaker 2: It developed organically and it wasn't named. It wasn't like

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Speaker 2: being like, all right, what we're doing is surrealism until

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Speaker 2: they'd been doing the thing for a while, which is

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Speaker 2: a thing that I keep running across whenever there's like

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Speaker 2: a cool radical subculture, like they're just like doing that shit,

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Speaker 2: and then someone's like, oh they're the hippies. Oh they're

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Speaker 2: the nihilists. Oh they're the surrealists, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like oh what do we call this? Yeah, thing

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Speaker 3: that's been around for a while. Yeah, yeah, totally, which

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Speaker 3: makes me wonder about all of them. Right, are all

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Speaker 3: things like that? Like was punk like that?

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Speaker 1: And I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Maybe, I mean, how long did this podcast exist before

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Speaker 3: you started calling it cool people who did.

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Speaker 1: Stuff about immediately?

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, well there goes that theory.

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Speaker 2: Well that's not entirely true. For a while, we kept

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Speaker 2: accidentally calling it cool people did cool things.

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Speaker 3: I've also made that mistake.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we also called it cool people did cool shit.

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Speaker 1: And then we were like, oh, that'll get jio, that'll

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Speaker 1: get blocked on all the apps. So that's cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I pitched as cool shit yeah, and

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Speaker 2: one time I was like, oh, I actually pitched it

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Speaker 2: as a different name and people were like, oh, is

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Speaker 2: it called based? People did base stuff and I was like, no,

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Speaker 2: I am old like it.

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Speaker 1: It's meant to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, wait, what does base mean? I'm also old.

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Speaker 2: It means cool.

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Speaker 1: It means cool.

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Speaker 3: My gosh. Since when ah gen z Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: can't keep up.

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Speaker 2: No, and it's okay that don't have to. Every generation

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Speaker 2: can have its own slang.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think I included the word stan as a verb

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Speaker 2: in this script for the first time ever, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to feel extra self conscious when I use it.

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Speaker 2: But so it goes. So we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: the build up. We've already talked about a bunch of

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Speaker 2: things they did and a bunch of a bunch of

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Speaker 2: the people who inspired them, But there is like a

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Speaker 2: direct lineage that they basically come out of data and

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Speaker 2: the I'm going to I had this whole pitch where

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Speaker 2: it's like we're going to connect piece by piece with

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Speaker 2: smooth transitions of different subject matter to create an exquisite corpse. Oh,

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Speaker 2: there's a million histories of surrealism. Most of them focus

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Speaker 2: on their art, which makes sense. They focused mostly on

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Speaker 2: their art, right, but only mostly, Like I'd say it

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Speaker 2: was like a fifty one percent art thing. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to focus a bit more on how they

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Speaker 2: wove into the rest of the world and their connections

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Speaker 2: because maybe we're all part of an exquisite corpse, a

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Speaker 2: history where every piece has its connections to every other piece.

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Speaker 3: Oh so a question about exquisite corpse game. So when

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Speaker 3: you're playing it with like a drawing, let's say, so

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Speaker 3: it keeps getting passed on and you fold the paper,

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Speaker 3: and so the idea is that, like what was the

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Speaker 3: original thing and how does it compare to what the

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Speaker 3: fit like the last person drew, or like how do

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Speaker 3: what's the.

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Speaker 2: So it's less like a game a telephone. No, there's

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Speaker 2: no objective. It's it's to create something out of the unconscious.

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Speaker 2: And there's like other ones that are actually like there's

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Speaker 2: a really fun one where you want the first person

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Speaker 2: just like writes a sentence describing something, and then the

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Speaker 2: next person just can see that sentence and then draws

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Speaker 2: it and then folds it where they can't see the

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Speaker 2: sentence they came before it, and so then the next

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Speaker 2: person writes a sentence describing that piece, and then the

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Speaker 2: next person draws it et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: Down the line.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, and that it's it's actually really interesting because

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Speaker 2: it's both a party game and it also just like

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Speaker 2: actually makes really cool art. There's a bunch of really

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Speaker 2: no other times I did it? Did it ever create

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Speaker 2: cool art? But I've seen really cool art that was

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Speaker 2: made this way.

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Speaker 3: Hmm. Okay, nice, And I'm sure, look, don't sell yourself short.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you made amazing art.

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Speaker 2: What's funny is I've like literally published a comic book,

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Speaker 2: but I like never talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you should talk about it.

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Speaker 2: It's called the Super Happy and Erco Fun Book. And

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Speaker 2: I used to draw this comic strip when I was

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Speaker 2: like a traveling punk who lived out of a backpack,

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Speaker 2: where it's like stick figure punks being annoying. Anyway, everyone,

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Speaker 2: can you?

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Speaker 3: Is it purchaseable?

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Speaker 2: I think so. I maybe it's probably it's like one

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Speaker 2: of those things where it's like probably like technically in print,

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Speaker 2: but I'm willing to bet the publisher doesn't like actually

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Speaker 2: keep up with it very well. You know, that's very punk. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: all of that kind of an annoying way. But okay,

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Speaker 2: but the next thing we're gonna talk about is the

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Speaker 2: punk is thing. Ever, I don't know it's really punk.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that are really punk, but

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Speaker 2: this is one of them. We're gonna talk about data.

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Speaker 2: We heard of data.

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Speaker 3: I've heard of it, but I know very little.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that it makes sense. That is fucking cool, and

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Speaker 2: it's basically the thing that came immediately before the surrealists,

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Speaker 2: and like most of the family and Surrealists were dataists

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Speaker 2: before that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so.

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Speaker 2: Okay to delay the scene for it in the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 2: In the early twentieth century, everything is like fucking wild

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Speaker 2: for Europeans and most of the world. Everything is changing quickly.

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Speaker 2: You have industrialization and capitalism being like, hell, yea, let's

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Speaker 2: do this thing. But you also got the working class

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Speaker 2: being like, no, we're gonna do our fucking thing instead, right.

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Speaker 2: You get all these people organizing into labor movements, and

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Speaker 2: you get all these people dreaming of a future without

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Speaker 2: the state or capitalism, and a lot of them are

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Speaker 2: using like all this new science to be like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, we can you know, have our fully automated

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Speaker 2: gay luxury space, Communism or whatever you know, and they

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Speaker 2: tended to disagree about the methods of how to create

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Speaker 2: a society without the state and capitalism. But that was

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Speaker 2: like a lot of people's fucking idea. The present was

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Speaker 2: really bleak, but the future was really bright. Was kind

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Speaker 2: of a one way to understand that part of labor movement.

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Speaker 2: Then World War One came and said, no, the future sucks.

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Speaker 2: It's all murder, everything's bad. Machine guns are here. You're fucked.

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Speaker 2: World War one came and it smashed all those dreamers

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Speaker 2: into little pieces because the state plus machine gun meant

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Speaker 2: death everywhere, and the youth were mowed down. The stragglers

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Speaker 2: who crawled home from the trenches were forever changed, and

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Speaker 2: mostly not in good ways. And this dramatically shifts the

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Speaker 2: art and social scenes of Europe. And this is a

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Speaker 2: bit of an exaggeration coming from an author I read

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Speaker 2: just talking about like utopianism is kind of like on

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Speaker 2: the wane, right, people are a little bit like we

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Speaker 2: care about our bright and bold future we're marching towards

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Speaker 2: and it's more like decadence, a nihilism, and a fucket attitude.

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Speaker 2: This is where you get like Weimar Germany and all

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Speaker 2: the cabarets. This is when you get like, let's drink

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Speaker 2: and be merry because we have no fucking food, but

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Speaker 2: we seem to have all this booze and like, let's

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Speaker 2: just fucking go, you know. So it's a really good

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Speaker 2: time for art and culture. Eh. It kind of feels

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Speaker 2: a lot like today, where climate change has us fully

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Speaker 2: aware that all of the progressive things that everyone was

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Speaker 2: working towards don't mean shit unless we have a real

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Speaker 2: sudden revolution. Yeah, totally, but it's made really good art. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like this podcast, which is totally high art. I absolutely,

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Speaker 2: oh the highest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So this did not mean an end to revolt in

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Speaker 2: a desire for change, but it meant it was more

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Speaker 2: concerned with the destruction of the existent rather than the

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Speaker 2: prefiguration of something new. And to quote a more modern

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Speaker 2: slogan that comes from the same urge, life is ecstatic

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Speaker 2: intercourse between destruction and creation and not really I know. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was not a good time to be alive in

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Speaker 2: the inner wary years, but it was a good time

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Speaker 2: for art and culture. All the old rules are gone,

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Speaker 2: anything could come in its place. Enter data, which actually

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Speaker 2: started in the middle of the First World War, and

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Speaker 2: there's a whole bunch of like modernism and avant garde

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Speaker 2: and stuff. Data Unsurrealism are just examples of it, but

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Speaker 2: they're like the ones I'm talking about today. Yeah, Data

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Speaker 2: was an art movement against art movements. They were an

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Speaker 2: anti art movement that was like a stated thing. Their

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Speaker 2: goal was the quote ruthless violation of the traditional conventions

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Speaker 2: of art. They wanted to fight the logic and carefully

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Speaker 2: ordered rules of modern capitalist, nationalist and war mongerin society.

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Speaker 2: And they wanted to do that fighting with nonsense and

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Speaker 2: the irrationality. And they did it with every medium of

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Speaker 2: art they could. So they made really weird shit, and

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Speaker 2: it's like it didn't last as long, right, because it's

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Speaker 2: not as like pleasant, right, Like surrealism is like even

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Speaker 2: though it's like fucking weird, you're like, oh, it's like

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Speaker 2: there's like nice colors and shit, you know, right, it's.

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Speaker 3: Like aesthetically pleasing. Yes, once again, I am doing a

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Speaker 3: Google image search for data art.

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Speaker 2: What do you get? Is it a lot of graphic design.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of design's.

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Speaker 2: Do you get the toilet, the journal, We'll talk about

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Speaker 2: the journal.

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Speaker 3: There's like a lot of like what just seems like

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Speaker 3: a collage.

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Speaker 1: Like, can't even tell you how much my APR history

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Speaker 1: teacher talked about that fucking toilet.

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Speaker 2: I actually, I'm gonna be really curious when we get

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Speaker 2: to that part to ask what your a p English

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Speaker 2: teacher said about it. But yeah, like they, yeah, they

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Speaker 2: speaking of trauma. Let's bring up about it.

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Speaker 1: And I used to get in trouble for talking in class.

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Speaker 2: Just pretend she's a giant spider he of course. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The only way I had passed Art history once I

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Speaker 2: learned that my art history teacher really liked the Rococo

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Speaker 2: and was complain about how none of her students liked Rococo.

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Speaker 2: So it was the only period I studied. And then

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Speaker 2: I wrote my paper on it, and then I was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm a horrible person. I basically was just like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I really struggle with this class, obviously, but I really

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Speaker 2: liked Rococo. It totally spoke to me. And she was like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, me too, and she gave me a

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Speaker 2: passing grade.

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Speaker 3: That's the way you hustled, Yeah, work smarter not yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, so data. No one agrees where the

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Speaker 2: name comes from, it's possible. The most common version of

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Speaker 2: the story is that someone opened up a dictionary at

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Speaker 2: random and stabbed down a knife into the French word

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Speaker 2: for hobby horse. Maybe it's maybe they used it because

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Speaker 2: it's a child's first word, you know, like and it's

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Speaker 2: like sort of nonsense word. Yeah, or a lot of

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Speaker 2: Romanians in Switzerland were a big part of the starting

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Speaker 2: of it, and so when they kept saying like yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: they were saying da da Right, maybe the creators intentionally

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Speaker 2: lied about where it comes from. I think that's the

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Speaker 2: most likely answer.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like a very data thing to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Data was basically founded by this couple, a

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Speaker 2: man and a woman. So history, of course, only remembers

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Speaker 2: the man, who by all accounts was actually pretty good

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Speaker 2: to his partner. So here's to the wife guys of history,

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Speaker 2: and they start off their journey here as anarchists, probably

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Speaker 2: anarchists pacifists. Their name are names are Hugo Ball and

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Speaker 2: Emmy Hennings. Hugo was a German born into the conserv

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Speaker 2: into a conservative Catholic family living in Belgium, and he

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Speaker 2: saw firsthand what machine guns do to people, Belgium being

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Speaker 2: one of the first places that the like mass casualties

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Speaker 2: of machine guns of white people because spoiler not spoiler,

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Speaker 2: a thing that happened and of course is the first

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Speaker 2: use of machine guns. And war was like against indigenous

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Speaker 2: people in Africa that I'm aware of. I don't know whatever. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: he saw this and he had a quote, the war

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Speaker 2: is founded on a glaring mistake. Men have been confused

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Speaker 2: with machines. Basically, it's like, wait, what like this is dumb?

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Speaker 2: Machines should fight it out? Why are people fighting it out?

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Speaker 2: They die? Like they all die. That seems bad, right, right,

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Speaker 2: So the war's going on. So he fucks off to

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Speaker 2: Switzerland with Emmy, who I think might be the one

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Speaker 2: who got him into anarchism and shit, though don't quote

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Speaker 2: me on it. She was a cabaret dancer and she

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Speaker 2: was a year older than him and had already been

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Speaker 2: married and was publishing poems in radical like lefty newspapers.

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Speaker 2: And they're in their like late twenties at this point.

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Speaker 2: They're like, all right, you gotta eat the fuck out.

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Speaker 2: We're going to Switzerland. They go to Zurich and they

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Speaker 2: show up and they're starving artists. They're trying to scrape by.

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Speaker 2: They're working on all these different shows and shit. As

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Speaker 2: performers or writers or whatever, and this is a really

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Speaker 2: interesting place to be because like everyone who's fleeing the war,

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Speaker 2: like all the all the radicals who are like being

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Speaker 2: persecuted by their governments for being pacifists or being against

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Speaker 2: the war whatever, are all coming here. Right. So nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixteen they start Cabaret Voltaire and soon they have all

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Speaker 2: these artists in their orbit, and they start a magazine too,

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Speaker 2: and they name it Cabaret Voltaire, which is fine, Like

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Speaker 2: it's not like the most original thing to give it

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Speaker 2: the same name, but whatever, I would probably do.

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Speaker 3: That creativity is hard, I know.

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Speaker 2: It is, and they're putting all of it into their

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Speaker 2: cabaret because their cabaret is fucking weird. Like when I

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Speaker 2: think of a cabaret, I think of like, well, I

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Speaker 2: probably mostly think of the movie Cabaret, right, and I

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00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 2: think about like these like very structured like here's these

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Speaker 2: people performing for this specific audience and like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know whatever. This cabaret was a venue for poetry, dance,

399
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Speaker 2: and music, and people tried all kinds of avantcar shit.

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00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 2: There were poems without words known in any language, people

401
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 2: reading poems at the same time as one another. There's

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Speaker 2: like noise scenes stuff like people playing concerts with typewriters

403
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 2: and rakes all the shit that's like kind of cool

404
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 2: and kind of annoying, you know an equal.

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Speaker 3: Okay, sure, prodo stomp.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like, yeah, stomp is the commercialization of of

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Speaker 2: of noise, Okay, which is fine. I mean there's actually

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Speaker 2: whatever speaking of the commercialization of radical culture. Wow, did

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Speaker 2: you know that this show is actually sponsored?

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Speaker 3: I did?

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Speaker 2: Oh not your first write.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, I'll try again. I did not tell me more.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you want to know more, you can listen

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Speaker 2: to these things that I wholeheartedly and earnestly support. And

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00:21:54,720 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 2: we're back. So there's people wearing all kinds of weird

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00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 2: ridiculous outfits, doing strange dances and shit like there's a

417
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: picture of like Hugo Ball and like a machine robot

418
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: costume that's like cheesy as shit, looks kind of like

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00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 2: the Tin Man like. And there's a a riotous crowd.

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00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 2: It's not people nodding along quietly. It's not like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go perform, everyone better be quiet while

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00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: I read my poem. That is not the vibe here.

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Speaker 2: One poet apparently like to punctuate his speaking by shooting

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Speaker 2: a gun into the air. WHOA, I'm sure the owners

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Speaker 2: of the club fucking love that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sounds a bit dangerous.

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Speaker 2: The word data is on a banner by the piano,

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Speaker 2: and it's basically they're like, what if we just do

429
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Speaker 2: chaos right? And part of their efforts at anti colonialism

430
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: wouldn't read right in today's eyes, which is that they

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00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 2: had to have like African drumming and like African inspired

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00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 2: war masks as part of the decorations, although they were

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Speaker 2: also actively supporting African anti colonial movements.

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Speaker 3: And I think that, okay, so appropriating some like part

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00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 3: of it is appropriation, and part of it it's like,

436
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 3: but we support.

437
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like militant support. And I don't fucking know, Like,

438
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 2: I don't. I think this is a good example of

439
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: like not necessarily holding people to the same standards because

440
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 2: things were different, not even like, oh we've learned more now,

441
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: it's just like literally the way that people would have

442
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: interacted with all of those things could have been very

443
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: different or not. I don't know. Also it's possible, yeah exactly.

444
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: We'll speak for yourself, but you know, there's also all

445
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 2: these like It's also possible that the war Masks are

446
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: actually Romanian folklore inspired, depending on the what source you read.

447
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 2: I'd put money that they do both. A fucking ton

448
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 2: of the people involved at the start are Romanian Jews

449
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 2: in exile, and sometimes the shows turn into riots or

450
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 2: cause other scandals, and the cops were like, not fans

451
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 2: of Cabaret Voltaire. So it's just a punk club. It's

452
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 2: just a fucking coolest shit.

453
00:23:58,920 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's cool.

454
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: The cops don't like.

455
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 2: It, Yeah, exactly.

456
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

457
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: So Hugo Ball writes the first Data Manifesto in nineteen sixteen,

458
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: and he like reads it out at the club because

459
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,959
Speaker 2: of course he does. And one of the lines in it,

460
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: to sort of give you a sense of the sort

461
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: of whatever, quote, how can one get rid of everything

462
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: that smacks of journalism? Worms, everything nice and right, blinkered, moralistic,

463
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: You're peanized and never ated by saying dada. Dada is

464
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 2: the word soul. Data is the pawn shop. Dada is

465
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 2: the world's best lily milk soap. Basically, it's like, I'm

466
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: going to spew nonsense because I am sick of the

467
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 2: capitalist world is obsessed with everything being like neat and orderly.

468
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: We are going to just like throw everything into chaos

469
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 2: until something better comes along. All the while, Hugo, Hugo,

470
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: Ball not Boss. I don't know how you, Hugo Boss.

471
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: Thought it the entire time you were saying Ball. I

472
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: thought Boss the entire time, even though I know it

473
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 1: was wrong. It was like, Hugo, one's a Nazi, One's

474
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: not a Nazi.

475
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh huh yeah. All the while, Hugo is obsessed

476
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 2: with Catholic mysticism, Supposedly, at the same time as he's

477
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 2: like sticking the knife into the dictionary and coming up

478
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 2: with the word data, he's like building an altar in

479
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: the corner of his room. Interesting, and their whole thing

480
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: is against rationalism. In the art world, they're against aesthetics.

481
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: Now we can talk about the urinal Marcel Duchamp, who is,

482
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: aw yeah, one of the early Dadaists and later Surrealist.

483
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 2: He gets into the ready made, which is basically, you

484
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: take a mass produced object, you give it a title,

485
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 2: and you're like, here you go, here's your fucking art.

486
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: Do you do you know the story behind Fountain?

487
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: Tell me the story behind Fountain.

488
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: Okay. Fountain is the piece that everybody calls the urinal.

489
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: It's an upside down yurinal where he just signed it

490
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: our period mutt with the year and I think it

491
00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: was nineteen seventeen. Somebody can found check me if I'm wrong. Sorry.

492
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: And there was this art competition that was like you

493
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: can submit anything, and that's what he and he submitted

494
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: it anonymously and everybody freaked the fuck out and it

495
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: like changed all of art because it was like, what

496
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: is art? Is this art? Can we define this as art?

497
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: And everybody lost their goddamn minds.

498
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: It's cool. Yeah, no, it's really cool to me. Yeah,

499
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 2: And like apparently they didn't put it into the main show.

500
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: They were like, this is not fucking art, but they

501
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: they did photographics. Well they thought they thought it was

502
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 2: a joke at first. Yeah. Yeah. Well but here's the

503
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 2: thing I'm trying to figure out is that like everything

504
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: I had read about it, like art history wise, which

505
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 2: is again I clearly have laid out that I did

506
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: not pay much attention to art history.

507
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: I've clearly laid out that I that I did. I

508
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: knew that I knew that story off the cuffin right,

509
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: and it wasn't talking too much in class.

510
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: So there's like one way of interpreting it where it's

511
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: like whoa man, Like everything is art, that's so deep.

512
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 2: And then there's another way that seems more realistic to me,

513
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 2: which is that he was being like it's trolling. It's like,

514
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: fuck you, fuck your art world. Here's a fucking urinal.

515
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: I'm calling it fountain. Fucking deal with it, you know.

516
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: And it might be both right, Like it might be like, look,

517
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 2: everything's art, nothing's art, dunam you know.

518
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: It could be could be something that I did in

519
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 3: school sometimes where I was like, oops, this project's due

520
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: and I didn't do anything for it, so I'll just

521
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 3: slap the thing on another thing that's already a thing

522
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: and then pretend like I'm a genius.

523
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, but maybe you were genius, Caitlyn, and maybe I was.

524
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I was.

525
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: The real genius was the thing that came up from

526
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: your own conscience as you were trying to evade the rules.

527
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: So sadly, this concept and lots of anti art and

528
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 2: surrealism were later recuperated into capitalism, like by that asshole

529
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: Andy Warhol, who basically did the same thing but for

530
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 2: capitalism instead of against capitalism. But data along the way.

531
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 2: They're also against nationalism and colonialism. They figure that these

532
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: two things are the cause of war, and above everything

533
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: else there against war, right, And soon it spreads this

534
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: like fucking wild punk scene. The original club gets shut down,

535
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: I think by the cops after like, I don't know,

536
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 2: six months. It does not last, it does not last

537
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: a very long time, but data goes across the Western world,

538
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: and Hugo Ball and Emmy Hennings, the two people who

539
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 2: opened Cabaret Voltaire, they're out. Depending on the source, they

540
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: stuck around with the movement for a few more months

541
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 2: to a few more years, but basically I think they

542
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: were like, oh my god, fucking art movement, we've become

543
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: the thing we've hated, and we're out. But by nineteen

544
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 2: twenty they've reconverted to like traditional Catholicism, and Hugo spends

545
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: the rest of his short life obsessed with theology and

546
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 2: Christian mysticism and now the obsessive rationalism that he's fighting against.

547
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: He's still against rationalism, but he's against the He now

548
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: blames it on the Protestant Reformation. Right, he fucking loses it.

549
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 3: I was just like, what, I don't understand it.

550
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I understand it, but it's not good, you know, right?

551
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did not see that coming. No, but good

552
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 3: for him, Yeah, I guess.

553
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: He died of cancer, super young, at forty one years old.

554
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: Emmy lasted decades longer. But Data goes on without them. Right.

555
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighteen, a Jewish Romanian who had been there

556
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: since more or less the beginning. His name is Tristan Zara.

557
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: He writes a new Data manifesto, and he goes on

558
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: to lead the movement. He helps it spread, and he's the

559
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: one who brought it to all the folks who are

560
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: going to go on to start the surrealist movement. Now,

561
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: Dada had an ideological fight with another art movement. I'm guessing,

562
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 2: based on your knowledge of surrealism and Data, you're not

563
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: super familiar with futurism.

564
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 3: I'm really not you be correct, Sophie.

565
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: What you got on futurism?

566
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: I don't have much on futurism, to be honest with you.

567
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: Is there another name for it?

568
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: No, this is a futurist movement. The reason it falls

569
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: out of favor of history is that they were really

570
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: into the Nazis after a while.

571
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: Oh, that's probably why I don't know about it as much.

572
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's what is what does the style look like?

573
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: It's like Metropolis, the movie Metropolis. Like it's like it's

574
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: like we're gonna go into this bright, beautiful future where

575
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: the machines are like work for us, and like it's

576
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: like lots of like city scapes and shit.

577
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

578
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: Right, and bright colors looks almost like a collage. But

579
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: then am I remember is that what that is? I

580
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: just think I just don't know the name.

581
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: Oh see, I just think of Metropolis so much that

582
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: I'm actually now got to look up futurism art. See,

583
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 2: I know more about the politics of everything. Like at

584
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: one point, yeah, I know, you're right, bright colors and shit.

585
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: I was walking around this bookstore with my mom and

586
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: I was like telling her all the politics of all

587
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: the authors, and my mom was like, you know these

588
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 2: books are about and I'm like, no.

589
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: No way, I did I remember. I remember.

590
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 3: Some of this stuff.

591
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: I just didn't know it was called futurism.

592
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so.

593
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: Maybe I was busy talking in class.

594
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: That was one of the days that you were just

595
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: yapping those gums, flapping those gums.

596
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: See. When I was in art school, I had this roommate,

597
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: and he was a He wrote a neo futurist manifesto

598
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: and it was like super hierarchical, and then I got

599
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: really into anarchy and we got into these like fistfights

600
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: about it, and then in the end he became an

601
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 2: anarco futurist, where it was like all of the same

602
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: concept but instead it was like a galitarian m hmm,

603
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: well a similar thing happened before that, where so the

604
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: futures didn't start off Nazis, right, there's actually like interesting

605
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: ideological shit going on with the futurists, but they eventually

606
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: most of them are like a bunch of Nazis, and

607
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: so the Dadasts are like fuck you, like you suck,

608
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: and overall that kind of win this fight, like Dada

609
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: is remembered and futurism is more of a footnote, you know.

610
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: There however, were a bunch of people involved in Data

611
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: who ended up not so good, including one Italian guy

612
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: who sided with the Dadists I think in the fight

613
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: against the futurists, because the futurism mostly comes from Italy,

614
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: like fascism, okay.

615
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 3: And.

616
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: There's someone who was personal friends with Zara who turned

617
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 2: out to be really no good, and his name is Julievola.

618
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: Julius Evola is like he's like the mysticism guy that

619
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: all the Nazis are into. He's the like if you

620
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: meet like people who are like into weird esoteric shit

621
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 2: where they think they're really deep and they're fucking fascists.

622
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: Avola is there, like guy, okay, gross, like fuck the

623
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 2: modern world, but not in a cool way where like

624
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: we're equal and live with nature, but instead in some

625
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: fucking weird way of being Nazis. That's my Julius Vola quote.

626
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: It's direct quote.

627
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, verbatim.

628
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: I did the translation myself. I'm not great at Italian,

629
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 2: but I feel pretty confident.

630
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: Yeah no, that sounds right.

631
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Avola took the anti rationalism of data and

632
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: instead of being like therefore freedom, he was like therefore fascism.

633
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: And we're not gonna deep dive him because he's not

634
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: a cool person did cool stuff. He's a bad but

635
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: weird person who did bad but oddly banal stuff.

636
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 3: Okay, that should well spinoff podcast where is it.

637
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 2: Bad people did odd but banal stuff?

638
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

639
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: I bet I Yeah, I'm not doing a trilogy.

640
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 2: Anyway. Fuck that guy. Zara the cool one. By nineteen nineteen,

641
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: he leaves Switzerland to go hang because the war's over

642
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: and shit right, he goes go hang out with the

643
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: cool Paris dotsts who are like having the most fun

644
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 2: maybe and they and they start publishing a magazine with

645
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: fucking dog shit name. Literature is the name of their

646
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: magazine because they'll pretentious this fight. I hate it. Don't

647
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: name your magazine literature.

648
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 3: Sorry, that sounds so bass, you know, Oh yeah no,

649
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 3: totally yeah, yeah we stan we stan literature, yeah, but

650
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 3: dead ass Yeah.

651
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: By doing it there we.

652
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 1: Go probably say it with some there is.

653
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 2: Wait, I don't know, I've never heard that one.

654
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: That's fine, it's it's what it's what jen, it's what

655
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: the youth use to shorten charisma. They call it the

656
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: person has riz.

657
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 3: All right, all right, I mean that is creative.

658
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: That has been words My much uger, much cooler employees

659
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: have taught me.

660
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: Is compared to me, You're like older employer is like

661
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 2: I can tell you all about the drama in nineteen twenty,

662
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 2: and I don't know shit about what's happening in twenty twenty.

663
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: Listen, listen, find people who can do it all all

664
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: I'm saying I need I need it all in my

665
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: life because.

666
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: You're a girl boss. That's that's slang. But that's a

667
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: bad one. Now you're not that, because you're you're good.

668
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: Only there were a word for good, there isn't. We

669
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: just use the word good. So so the pure negation

670
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 2: of art that the Dadas were seeking soon turned into

671
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 2: a pure negation of each other over minor differences, which

672
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: will surprise no one who's hung out in a cool

673
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: as fuck punk scene. Unfortunately, soon they're publishing like hit

674
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: pieces on each other being like but not like they're

675
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 2: not like publishing hippies is on, like a vola, right,

676
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: they're publishing hippiees is Onlike the way that you're interpreting

677
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 2: your particular interpretation of leftism is not the same as

678
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: mine or whatever.

679
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 3: Okay, So it's like Distracks basically of the nineteen twenties.

680
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally and probably worse, although I don't know, I

681
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: mean some of it's kind of interesting and okay. So

682
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: basically you got Zara, who started off like kind of

683
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: leader of the Dadas, and then you've got Andre Berton,

684
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: who's going to end up the leader of the surrealists,

685
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: and he calls Zara an impostor and basically a clout chaser. Also,

686
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: only historians call them leaders to be clear, like the

687
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 2: leader of it. Actually Breton might have called himself the leader,

688
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: but no, whatever, we'll get to it. He wasn't actually

689
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: the leader. Breton basically calls Zara an impostor and a

690
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: cloud chaser, which is probably true. The cloud chaser part.

691
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: There's no way you can call Zara an impostor with

692
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: data is it's like fifty to fifty. The name literally

693
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 2: comes from him going yes, yes, in a club right

694
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 2: this or that. Datas group started having trouble with each other,

695
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: they're like, no, you're out of the club. And they're like, no,

696
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 2: you're out of the club. Look, I'm crossing you off

697
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 2: the official roster. See that was your name, and now

698
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: there's a line through it, you know. And so, ladies, gentlemen,

699
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: and between of these, if your art movement has an

700
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 2: official roster, you asked for it.

701
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 3: That is not very art. I would say, yeah, totally

702
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 3: have a list.

703
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: And you also asked for these ads unless you have

704
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: cooler zone media. If you asked for just this ad transition.

705
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: And we're back so this occasionally gets physical. One of

706
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: Zara's plays gets disrupted by Breton and some furniture gets

707
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 2: smashed and the cops end up showing up. They also

708
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 2: like to fight about anarchism versus communism, although they all

709
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 2: keep changing their minds about like which where they're at

710
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 2: on any of these given spectrums, nothing ever changes. So

711
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: then in nineteen twenty two, Data threw its own funeral,

712
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: which I think is clisse. Hell. We're like they people,

713
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: We're done, explain like we did it. I's have a

714
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: funeral for Data. Data is done, okay, which actually to

715
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: make it even more punk. In nineteen eighty two or no,

716
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: maybe in the seventies, Fuck, someone's gonna check my punk.

717
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: Cred Crass, an anarchist punk band from the UK, release

718
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: an album called Punk is Dead, and basically it was

719
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: like Punk's over and it was like before punk really

720
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 2: even like got going. But Data throws its own funeral

721
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 2: and the whole because the whole point it wasn't to

722
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: become a shitty art movement, but they had become a

723
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: shitty art movement. They're like, we're good, it's done, Dada

724
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: did its thing. We all go home now. And in

725
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty four, when the Surrealist Manifesto comes out. It's

726
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: basically like surrealism has devoured data, which is not wrong. Okay,

727
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 2: But before we move to surrealism, I want to follow

728
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: up with Zara because he's cool and he doesn't take

729
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 2: center stage in surrealism quite the way he doesn't Dada,

730
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: mostly because Breton kind of won that fight and he's like,

731
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 2: fuck you, you're not a real surrealist or whatever the

732
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: fucking bullshit. He was stubbornly independent. He didn't like when

733
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 2: in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties the surrealists were

734
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: like getting in with the Communist Party, and he kept

735
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: getting into fights with Breton. But soon they're all having

736
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 2: bigger problems, Nazi shape problems. By nineteen thirty three, he's like,

737
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: fuck it, communism, it's better than fascism. So he retires

738
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: from art promotion and he moves into anti fascist organizing.

739
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: He goes briefly over to Spain to join the en

740
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 2: anti fascist forces in their war against Franco, which we've

741
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 2: talked about million times in the show, and I'll talk

742
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: about a little bit later in the script. And then

743
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: he comes back and he organizes benefits and he puts

744
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: out poetry anthologies of the world's most celebrated poets against

745
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: all this fascist shit. And he's just basically like, I'm

746
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: going to figure out how to leverage my art cred

747
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: to bring attention to the need to destroy fascism. And

748
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,479
Speaker 2: this is before World War two, right, this is when

749
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: like this is one of the like before anti fashion,

750
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 2: anti fascism went mainstream. You know, when World War II

751
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: broke out, he went to southern France. The fact they

752
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 2: didn't fuck off entirely as a communist Jew and a

753
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: degenerate artist is probably testament to his courage slash partly

754
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 2: he probably had a hard time getting out. He joined

755
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: the resistance. He fought alongside the Maqui, which of the

756
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: Spanish rebels we talked about one of our episodes in

757
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: the Resistance to Franco. He ran the cultural broadcast for

758
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: the Free French Forces pirate radio station while his son

759
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: was fighting in the north of France against the fucking Nazis.

760
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 2: And at this point, as a Jew, he stripped of

761
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 2: his Romanian citizenship and his home country won't sell his books, right,

762
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: so he is like a man without a country. Fighting

763
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 2: desperately alongside his son against the fascists. And at this

764
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: point he's like, all right, I guess fucking I'm a communist.

765
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: Right and the war ends, He's like, I guess I'm

766
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: a communist. Have you ever heard of speaking of slang?

767
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of people talk about tankies?

768
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

769
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,720
Speaker 2: Wow, we live on such different corners of the Internet.

770
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: I'm kind of jealous.

771
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 3: The corner of the Internet I live on is looking

772
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 3: at cat videos.

773
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 2: This is a better part if if, yeah, Sophie, you

774
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 2: ever heard of tankies?

775
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

776
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Tanky's is a pejorative for authoritarian communists, particularly Stalinists.

777
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,720
Speaker 2: If there's like someone online who's being like like, Iran

778
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: is good because they hate the US or fucking the

779
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: shitty dictator of Syria what's his fucking name?

780
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: Asad?

781
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 2: Asad is good because he hates the US, or Russia

782
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: is good because they hate the US, right, Like, this

783
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 2: is a tanky position. This is a position that comes

784
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: from like weird old Cold war bullshit where they're like,

785
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 2: I'm just so completely whatever, I fucking hate them because

786
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: it's a nonsensical thing. Well, and it's for anyone who's

787
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 2: attracted to the image of like state power with lots

788
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 2: of lines of tanks and huge, big red flags and Shitay,

789
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: this piece of slang actually comes from the nineteen fifties.

790
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: It only got popular in the US thanks to Twitter,

791
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: which famously was not invented until sometime after the nineteen fifties.

792
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 2: I've heard that, yeah. In nineteen fifty six, there was

793
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: a huge uprising in Hungary against the Soviet Union, and

794
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: it came from all different types of Hungarians, and it

795
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 2: included a ton of leftists, including a ton of communists. Basically,

796
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 2: the USSR is bad, which is a reasonable position because

797
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: they are right. And this basically split the communists left

798
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: around the world, the people who don't live in the

799
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: Soviet Union. Also, half of them, the tankies approved, they

800
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 2: didn't call themselves as their opponents did, approved of the

801
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: USSR sending in tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution. The

802
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 2: other half, who might be called quote, people with the

803
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: reasonable understanding of the human desire for freedom and also

804
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 2: basic understanding of what communism is actually supposed to be about.

805
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: They supported the Hungarian Revolution. Zara supported the Hungarian Revolution,

806
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 2: which is a break from the Communist Party right. He

807
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: didn't entirely support it, but he supported it enough to

808
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:57,439
Speaker 2: piss off the tankies any possible, like, hey, maybe it's

809
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: bad when they get murdered, is like an enough to

810
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: be like, how dare you question our supreme leader? You know? Yeah,

811
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 2: And the Hungarian Revolution was mercilessly crushed by the authoritarian

812
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 2: forces of the USSR, and I think this kind of

813
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 2: breaks his heart, and he's just like, fuck it whatever,

814
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: I'm staying out of public life. Everything sucks, and he

815
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 2: just he keeps doing activism, he keeps fighting, fighting for decolonization,

816
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 2: which is like the main issue for a lot of

817
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: these people.

818
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: M h.

819
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 2: And then he makes it to his sixties and then

820
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 2: he does what everyone does eventually, which is die.

821
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 3: A lot of these for yourself again.

822
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 2: Yeah no, I mean, well, I'm not speaking for myself.

823
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 2: I was around during all this stuff. I'm gonna be

824
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 2: around till the heat death.

825
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 3: Of the universe.

826
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 2: When I keep saying the show's gonna be around to

827
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: the heat death of the universe, I mean with me

828
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: as the host.

829
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, obviously.

830
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's because I grew up in the blood drinking

831
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: cult Catholicism, where everyone's a vampire.

832
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 1: Mmmm.

833
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 3: That's why I have so many spare legs. I'm just

834
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:01,240
Speaker 3: sicking the blood out of them.

835
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you slowly went from the spider to centipede

836
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: to millipede.

837
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

838
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: Okay, So now we're gonna leave data and go to surrealism.

839
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: What the fuck is surrealism. It's got all these notable

840
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: characteristics we've talked about. It's all about the unfettered and

841
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 2: unfiltered imagination. It's about freedom of people's bodies and minds.

842
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 2: It's about dreams. It's about automatic writing, it's about channeled

843
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: forms of expression. It's about the juxtaposition of the ordinary

844
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: until it is no longer ordinary. Basically, if data is

845
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: like a fundamentally nihilist rejection of the existent, surrealism is

846
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 2: a way to dream possible alternatives, a way to dream

847
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 2: up and manifest the impossible. So like going back to

848
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: utopianism in a way, but instead of it being kind

849
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 2: of like we're gonna build the workers Paradise, it's a

850
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: little bit more like, yes, but we're gonna do that

851
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 2: by like living our impossible dreams, like nothing is impossible,

852
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: because reality itself is something that we can shape. I

853
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: I knew, I like surrealism. And then the more I

854
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 2: research this shit, the more I'm like, these people fucking rule.

855
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: Some of them who some of the folks that started

856
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 2: out with were some of the data folks who were

857
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 2: med students in Paris, and they were super into art

858
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: and all this shit. But they're also into all this

859
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: new psychoanalysis stuff that's going around. They've been doing automatic

860
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: writing and we're starting to wonder if there's more to

861
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: reality than what gets presented as reality. And they're into

862
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 2: the idea that somewhere between the conscious and unconscious is

863
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: a third thing, like the meme, Like, you know, do

864
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: you want this without or do you want the secret

865
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: third thing?

866
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 3: Mm.

867
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,760
Speaker 2: The thing that they're trying to create is a surrealist revolution,

868
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 2: a new way to find a higher reality, that space

869
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 2: between the conscious and the unconscious. And they realize that

870
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 2: exploitation and inequality is what's standing in the way of that.

871
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 2: So it's not just a spiritual revolution, but a physical

872
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 2: material one. It's like it's like one of the things

873
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 2: that the most of the hippies got right, but like

874
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 2: our memory of the Hippies is a society thinks they

875
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: only cared about like getting high and like opening the

876
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 2: doors of perception or whatever, you know, right right, actually

877
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 2: a good chunk of them. We're like, actually, we can't

878
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 2: do that until we like the everyone's free. But you know,

879
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: they called what they were fighting for the marvelous with

880
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: a capital M. And this is contrasted with its opponent,

881
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 2: basically miserable miserableism, which also is a capital M. Okay,

882
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 2: I want to quote a living surrealist author, Ron Skakowski.

883
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: Miserableism is a system that produces misery and then rationalizes

884
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: it by perpetuating the idea that such misery comprises the

885
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 2: only possible reality. It's basically like, oh, everything sucks, but

886
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 2: it's just that's the.

887
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 3: Way it is, how it is.

888
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so this to the surrealis absolutely includes

889
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 2: the art world. The art world is part of miserableism

890
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: when it all starts to kick off in nineteen twenty four,

891
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 2: Like when they have the Surrealist Manifesto. They've been doing

892
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: the ship for a while, right, but when they kind

893
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: of put the name to it, it's still slightly apolitical.

894
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: They had anarchist assassin heroes and shit, but they hadn't

895
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 2: quite been Like, surrealism is revolution in a literal sense,

896
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 2: this only lasted a couple months. The inciting incident was

897
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 2: the Riff War, which was this anti colonial uprising by

898
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: the Berbers in northern Morocco. And the reason it's interesting

899
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: to me is that like we tend to think of

900
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 2: white Europeans as only caring about white europe you know,

901
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 2: m h. But like radicals at the time were absolutely

902
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 2: paying attention to and sometimes participants in anti colonial struggle,

903
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: not as much as the Eventually, I'm hoping I'll do

904
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 2: a whole thing on the Riftwar and a bunch of

905
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: these anti colonial revolutions, But like, basically, the Berbers in

906
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 2: northern Morocco are like, all right, we're getting rid of

907
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 2: this fucking government, the colonial government. We're gonna get rid

908
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: of the Spanish right, and they've been fighting against the

909
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 2: Spanish for several years. But by nine teen twenty five

910
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: they attacked French colonial holdings too, because France also was

911
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 2: stealing a bunch of their shit. In two weeks, they

912
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 2: drove the French out of forty of their sixty six

913
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 2: military bases and killed, injured or captured twenty percent of

914
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: the French forces in the region, which is they are

915
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 2: like outnumbered and outgunned substantially, and they're just like fucking

916
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 2: kicking ass.

917
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

918
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: But the problem here is that France and Spain were

919
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: quite excited to get willing, quite willing to put aside

920
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 2: their differences and work together to smash this rebellion. And

921
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: they had the numbers and the guns, and they put

922
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 2: down the uprising by nineteen twenty six. But along the way,

923
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 2: the Surrealists are like, we fucking like these people, the

924
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: marvelous demands. We fight miserableism with guns if need be,

925
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: or to quote them more directly, quote we Surrealists pronounced

926
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 2: ourselves in favor of changing the imperialist war in its

927
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: chronic and colonial form into a civil war. Thus we

928
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: placed our energies at the disposal of the revolution of

929
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: the proletariat and its struggles, and to find our attitude

930
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: towards the colonial problem and hence towards the color question,

931
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: which I really like the like, oh, yeah, this imperialist

932
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 2: war whatever becomes a fucking civil war, huh fuck you

933
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: you know, which they didn't pull off, right, but like

934
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 2: most people don't.

935
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

936
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: And it means that the Surrealists started off as an

937
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: explicitly anti racist organization. Their first specific thing was the

938
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 2: color question, right mm hm, And they started off okay. So,

939
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 2: like the other thing that happened whiles researching this is

940
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 2: that I like start off with all these like there's

941
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: like the art world assumptions of everything that I had

942
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 2: heard about surrealists, which is like Dali the only surrealist

943
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 2: you know, and then there's the like kind of like

944
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 2: vague Okay, they were people, and they had this politics

945
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 2: and stuff, and it turns out most of what I

946
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 2: learned from that was all so wrong, right, okay, Because

947
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 2: like one of the things that you read about is

948
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 2: that it started off like a total boys club, but

949
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 2: it it didn't start off as a boys club. It

950
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 2: started with women and men both. The very first issue

951
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 2: of the magazine, Surrealist Revolution had women and had women

952
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 2: and men both in it. Women were left out of

953
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 2: the press about the organization by two groups I know,

954
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: and it's by the exactly the two groups you'd expect.

955
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: One the guys in the club who kind of wanted

956
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: to put up a no girl's allowed sign, right, and

957
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: they were like, oh no, it's us, And they're like

958
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:38,879
Speaker 2: shouldering each other out of the way to be like ah,

959
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: it's all us, you know, and also by the press

960
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 2: who just fucking ate it up and just want to

961
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 2: talk about boys in their paintings, you know, storing. Yeah, yeah, no,

962
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: I like genuinely, I was like, oh, I'm gonna have

963
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: to like fast forward through all the fucking boys club shit,

964
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 2: and then I'm like, oh, there was like people who

965
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 2: tried to make it a boy's club and they didn't succeed.

966
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 3: Okay, good.

967
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: The only people writing about women's surrealists were the surrealists,

968
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: both women and men. The art critics were ignoring them,

969
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 2: essentially until the women's liberation movement in the sixties and seventies,

970
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 2: when suddenly you start having people go back in history

971
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 2: and be like, oh, actually, there was literally hundreds of

972
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 2: women involved in all of their fucking art exhibits, like,

973
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: you know, like every every step of the way. M hm,

974
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: one kind of wow.

975
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 3: Women exist and did things.

976
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, they weren't just muses. And one of the problems

977
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: that surrealist had is that they put women on pedestals

978
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 2: and would be like, the women is the most beautiful,

979
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 2: perfect thing, and blah blah blah, we need muses or whatever,

980
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 2: and then these like women would be like, I'm not

981
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 2: your fucking muse, I'm an artist who And then like

982
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 2: most of them, men were like, oh that's cool, oh interesting,

983
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 2: Yeah you don't say I know. Some of them are

984
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 2: probably like, no, never mind, you're not fun anymore. I

985
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 2: can't wait you speak have thoughts, yeah, leave me alone.

986
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 2: Or they'd be like, yes, I want your unfiltered, chaotic

987
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: womanly thoughts. Just I get to be.

988
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 3: The one to write them down, rolling my eyes.

989
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. One commenter who was quoted in the book Surrealist

990
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 2: Women pointed out quote, no comparable movement outside of specifically

991
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 2: feminist organizations has had such a high proportion of active

992
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 2: women participants, and the ignoring of these women surrealists actually

993
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 2: ties into the misreading of Surrealism that mainstream society has

994
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: that is just the painters. This, of course, was actively

995
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,479
Speaker 2: perpetuated in the US by veteran enemy of the pod

996
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 2: solid Or Dali, who once said, I know this is

997
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 2: he obviously had his even worse quotes, but this one's

998
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 2: not great. He wants a talent to store it in

999
00:53:53,600 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 2: the balls. This guy saw it really sucks so bad,

1000
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 2: and so he was like, he wrote that about like

1001
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 2: a specific I forgot to write there's like a specific

1002
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,879
Speaker 2: woman where he was like, I guess she's all right

1003
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 2: for a girl, but no girl can be truly fantastic,

1004
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 2: because you know, talent is stored in the balls or whatever.

1005
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 2: Oh my god, which is why you have that talisman

1006
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: of balls They castrated off of men the only way to.

1007
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, okay, all your talent is and your balls,

1008
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 3: well then what if I kick them?

1009
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, you know, And so most of the women

1010
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: are sorry. More of the women were more likely to

1011
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: be writers, especially poets, but also theorists. But there's also

1012
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 2: a ton of painters and photographers too. Literally hundreds of

1013
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 2: women were part of the surrealist movement in his heyday.

1014
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: And the surrealist historian I've gotten the most out of

1015
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 2: during my research in these episodes is Penelope Rosemont, and

1016
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: she stresses that Surrealism has been mis presented by the

1017
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 2: press and turned into a drama of like splits and

1018
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 2: purges that represent Andre Breton as an authoritarian leader. Penelope

1019
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 2: says about this, from its first day, Surrealism as an

1020
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 2: organized movement was itself a free association. She says that

1021
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 2: even the surrealists who like left angry still described it

1022
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 2: as a free community which practiced collective decision making and

1023
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 2: encouraged the active participation of all. It saw itself not

1024
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 2: as a style of art, but a community of ethical views.

1025
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 2: So it's like, Okay, if you're trying to create the marvelous,

1026
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 2: you're one of us.

1027
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 1: You know.

1028
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 2: That said. Some of the participants of early surrealism were

1029
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 2: absolutely all about the drama and splits and all about

1030
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 2: gaykeeping and all about like sitting there and crossing off

1031
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 2: names and be like, no, you're not see you got

1032
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: crussed off. And we'll talk about that, but only a

1033
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 2: little bit because it's less interesting to me than their

1034
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,280
Speaker 2: lives and what they fought for, which we'll get into

1035
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 2: you on Wednesday.

1036
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:04,760
Speaker 3: Wow, I can't wait.

1037
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 2: Well you, I was gonna say you have to, but

1038
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: you actually don't have to. Everyone else has to.

1039
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 3: But we're going right into this, I.

1040
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:19,720
Speaker 2: Know, only after we first hear about you, Haylen.

1041
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 3: It's me. I am someone who also hosts a podcast

1042
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 3: which you can listen to if you want. It's called

1043
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 3: the Bechdel Cast, and we talk about movies and examine

1044
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 3: them through an intersectional feminist lens. And by we I

1045
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 3: mean myself and I co host Jamie Loftis, and usually

1046
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 3: I just you know, it's oh gosh, it's a hoot.

1047
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 3: I talk more so, I feel like I've been very

1048
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 3: quiet today. I my COVID brain fog is at an

1049
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 3: all time high.

1050
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 2: Congrats right now, sorry.

1051
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 3: And thank you so much. But you know, on this

1052
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 3: next episode, I just need a drink of water, I think,

1053
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 3: and then I'm going to be so I'm going to

1054
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 3: be saying so many brilliant things. And yeah, also follow

1055
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 3: me on Instagram. I don't know, it doesn't matter, Okay,

1056
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 3: the end.

1057
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 2: I have a project that's probably kickstarting when this is released,

1058
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 2: but I can't remember all the details about schedules of

1059
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 2: either part of it, both the kickstarter or this show

1060
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 2: nice and so it's either going to happen soon or

1061
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 2: happening now or already happened. But either way, you can

1062
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 2: still get this thing I'm writing. I'm doing like world

1063
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 2: building writing for a board game called Defenders of the

1064
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 2: Wild from Outlandish Games, and it has a companion role

1065
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 2: playing game book. Yeah, I'm really excited about it. It's

1066
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 2: like a by the makers of Block by Block, which

1067
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: is like a game of a board game of Revolt

1068
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 2: but this one is like you can be like a

1069
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: fox with the bow and arrow fighting against machines that

1070
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 2: are trying to enclose all the land and like kill

1071
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: all the animals and like whoa, it's really fun and

1072
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 2: I'm helping develop the role playing game world alongside a

1073
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 2: really incredible team of people, and it's like super profession

1074
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 2: like super cool and good. And you can check it

1075
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 2: out by searching Defenders of the Wild Outlandish Games, and

1076
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 2: you can sign up for information about it, or it's

1077
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 2: already happening and you can back it, or it already happened,

1078
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: and you can probably still buy it or convince someone

1079
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 2: else to buy it so you can come over to

1080
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 2: their house and play it. Because how can you call

1081
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 2: yourself polyamorous if you don't have a board game night.

1082
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 2: This is not true. I actually don't have a board

1083
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 2: game night. Well I guess I do have a role

1084
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 2: playing game.

1085
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 3: I actually kind of do.

1086
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 2: Oh nice.

1087
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 3: I have some friends. We almost exclusively play Catan. Okay,

1088
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 3: but for now, for now, yes, until I get my

1089
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 3: grubby little fingers on your game.

1090
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, Sophie, what do you got ah?

1091
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: Cooler Zone Media, Cool Zone Media at cool Zone Media,

1092
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: cool Zonmedia dot com.

1093
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 2: What about Coolest Zone Media. I'm stealing a joke from

1094
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 2: James Stout.

1095
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: We haven't invented that yet, but it's coming.

1096
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 3: So many new things. We've got Coolest Zone Media on

1097
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 3: the horizon. We've got bad people who did what was

1098
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 3: it called again something banal?

1099
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, bad people who did bad things. The Julius Vola

1100
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 2: podcast mm hmmmm, Great Edge Lords of History. Huh. I

1101
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 2: actually don't want to host that or listen to.

1102
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 3: It, but I don't want to hear anything about it.

1103
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: I decline the It's not dream Lit, Not not Not

1104
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:10,439
Speaker 1: on Red Light Boom podcast over Wednesday. Cool People Who

1105
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1106
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website

1107
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1108
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.