WEBVTT - We Deserve a Better Internet 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.720 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OKF Daily with Me 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:19.920 your Girl. Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker Today. 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.160 I woke up and did not want to get out 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:28.320 of bed, and so I laid there for at least 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:33.960 forty five minutes. I am feeling incredibly heavy, incredibly low, 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:40.559 and doing all that I can to muster the energy 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:47.000 to keep pushing forward. We've all been dealing with just 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:52.880 non stop havoc on our nervous systems for the last 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.320 two weeks. But if we're really honest, the last eight years, 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.440 and so, if you do find yourself like I do, 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:05.600 where you are at a very low point, you find 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.680 yourself at a very low moment. I want to offer 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:13.720 to you to just give into what your body needs, 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.640 which is rest, which is a social media break, which 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.680 is a news break, and go and do things that 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:26.559 nourish you. Because what I think is happening right now 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:33.839 with this inundation of just bad judges, bad decisions, bad 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:39.760 people gaining power and reverence on social media, in corporate media, 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:46.920 the fall of our democracy, of places like MSNBC who 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:51.240 now have pretty much shown and revealed who they are 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:57.520 with inviting Eric Trump on air, Katie Turr really with 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.520 removing Mourning Joe from the air and lying to the 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.880 hosts about why really like, that's what we're doing, all 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:11.680 to comply and be complicit in the anointing of Donald 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.520 Trump as king. It's vile and it's disgusting, and I 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.079 think that more and more people are recognizing that they 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.040 are not to be trusted. And so I just woke 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:30.440 up feeling really heavy and also more committed to telling 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:36.520 the truth, to doing the work, to uplifting the truth, 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.680 and trying to wake as many people up as humanly 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:46.560 fucking possible. The announcement of jd Vance as Donald Trump's 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:50.040 running mate tells you everything that you need to know 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.639 about Republicans. Donald Trump could have, if he was interested 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.640 in actually gaining voters, chosen Nikki Haley. Now, I think 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:03.160 Nimroda is a piece of shit, But what it would 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:07.360 have indicated at least two Republican women is that you 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.120 believe in their power and their purpose as well. Donald 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.040 Trump said, yeah, Nah, she don't have the complexion. 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:14.160 For that, right. 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:18.560 Remember, but you saw her just this week on the 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.519 stage at the RNC, bending the knee, kissing the ring 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.400 and doing what she can to stay relevant inside of 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.080 a party that sees her as nothing more than the 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:34.240 fucking help. So choosing jd Vance a man that has 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.440 said that he believes in abortune one hundred percent. No, 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:43.640 there is no cause in his mind that rape or 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:48.280 incest or anything horrific would constitute a second thought. He said, no, 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:52.120 just rape is inconvenient right. But two wrongs don't make 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.880 a right, which is what he said. Tell that to 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:59.680 victims of sexual assault. He has said that women should 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.280 stay in the side of abusive relationships because it's for 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.160 the better men of the children. He has said that 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:12.200 LGBTQ plus people are an abomination and wants to roll 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:17.520 back any protections that the community has gained in the 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:23.000 past several decades. He is a white supremacist. He is 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:25.880 a liar. He is a man that said in twenty 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.960 sixteen that Donald Trump was America's hitler, and now in 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.400 twenty twenty four is Shooken and Jivin on the stage 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.479 with him. These people are not to be trusted, and 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.240 they're also to be taken. 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:38.839 At their word. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.640 So do not sit this election out. Do not think 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:44.760 that you're going to get another bite at the apple. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.000 Do not waste your vote on a third party. Use 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:53.480 your power, your platform, your treasure, your talents to secure 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:57.120 our democracy over the next three and a half months. 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:02.080 Because where who we have been withh wait for coming 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:05.440 up next, dear friends, my conversation with friend of the 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:10.440 show bridget Todd, the host of the pod There Are 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.360 No Girls on the Internet. We get into a great 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:20.640 conversation about tech, about democracy, about this upcoming election, and more, folks. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:25.240 I am so excited to welcome back to WOKF Daily 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.919 bridget Todd, the host of There Are No Girls on 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:33.600 the Internet, which is launching its fourth season on iHeart 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.800 On Outspoken, and I'm so excited to have you. Every 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.320 time that I have you on, we have such rich 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.720 conversations about the world, the culture, society that we are 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.760 living in right now. The last time we spoke last year, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.600 these are some of the things that hadn't happened that 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.880 have happened in that timeframe, which is kind of wild. 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.320 When I was like looking at this, so since then, 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:03.000 Twitter has become extreads hadn't taken off yet, and TikTok 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:09.200 was not facing a federally mandated ban just those three things, 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:14.320 and AI was still I think being talked about on 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.320 the margins, you know, within the industry, but not in 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.120 a mainstream type setting, and now it's everywhere and it's 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.320 in every conversation. So bridget jump in. Let's start with 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.680 threads and the ban on TikTok and kind of the 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:36.599 politization of information disinformation and kind of what were you 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.600 thinking about as these platforms were shifting and bands were 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:41.720 being announced. 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.960 Yeah, I do feel like we are in a really 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.880 specific moment for somebody that has been on the Internet 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.719 for a very long time, sort of covering and thinking 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.600 about the Internet and how we get our information, how 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.160 we connect. I can't recall a time that we were 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.960 ever in a moment like this one where you have 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:04.080 made sure, you know, communications platforms like Twitter essentially completely 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.440 being disrupted because of one billionaire that's new. You have 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.760 other companies trying to sort of fill that gap with threads. 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.800 You've got, you know, as you said, TikTok, which really 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.440 was taking up a lion's share of how people were 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.280 getting their information on social media facing a fan All 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.640 of this happening against the backdrop of the rise of 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.880 things like Generator of AI, which we know is really 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.640 poised to change our information ecosystem that already has do 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.560 things like you know, politically motivated deep fakes and cheap 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:35.760 fakes and things like that. I don't know, it's such 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:42.320 a weird time personally. I really see people experiencing a 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.200 lot of fatigue, and I think I'm there myself with like, well, 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.360 what platform can I use? Or you know, when something 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.320 happens in my community. For the longest time, where you 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.720 would go for like a real time update was Twitter, right, Like, yep, 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:56.280 you know, I would go to Twitter to see what my. 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:57.640 Mayor was saying about something. 0:07:57.920 --> 0:07:59.960 Now I have no idea, I don't know where to go, 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.880 and so I think that we're really in this no 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.240 man's land of how you just get access to information 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.040 all of that in the lead up to a critical 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.880 election year, not just in the United States globally, right, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:18.400 And so I'm concerned, I guess is the word title use. 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.560 I'm a little bit concerned about our information ecosystem online. 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.000 Yeah, I think that, particularly when you make the point 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:35.520 that our global town square was disrupted by one right wing, racist, misogynist, 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:42.840 transphobic billionaire, shows you how broken our systems of communication 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.480 and gathering in media truly are. Right when what we 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:51.880 had seen from let's say, the murder of Trayvon Martin, 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.200 the murder of Mike Brown, and I'm just I'm giving 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:00.000 like just specific time points the murder of George Floyd. 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:04.280 So you're looking at, you know, almost seven eight years 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.800 of time. In that span, what we saw were people 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:13.719 being able to quickly gather, people being able to organize online, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:18.520 and then transition that organizing online into organizing in real life. 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.640 Then because of the bubbling up that was happening in Twitter, 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.760 finally mainstream media was covering what was actually happening on 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:30.720 the ground in these communities where these murders took place. 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.720 That was I think a bat signal bridget to the 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.600 right wing that was like, Oh, they can't have this, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.320 they can't have this centralized organizing and we need something 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.920 and someone to disrupt it. How do you look at 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:53.000 the devolving of an X versus the proposed ban on 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.320 a TikTok? How do you look at that on the 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:56.800 spectrum of where we are? 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.480 Yeah, I mean, so the way that you broke down 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:03.880 that timeline is so I think needed and necessary, because 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.400 I do think the reason why Twitter became this battle 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.320 ground is because it really was a place where people 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.040 who traditionally didn't have access to traditional means of power 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.240 were able to build up power. So people like Elon 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:16.880 must saw that and they were like, we need to 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.840 disrupt that. Right When I think about TikTok, I think 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.720 that TikTok is a platform that it's not surprising to 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:26.720 me that you have a lot of people kind of 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.480 fear mongering about TikTok because I do think it's one 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.199 of the last places that people can go and just 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:35.800 like express themselves. I think it's interesting how the conversation 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:40.319 around the platform has been demonized. But other platforms that 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.840 I could tell you twenty different ways that they're that 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.200 they're that they're harming us, it's not similarly demonized. And 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.160 so I think that what lawmakers who are trying to 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.800 ban TikTok are really saying is that American owned companies 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.040 should be able to harm us in this way. 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.560 Like that's like, like that's my like big theory. 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.439 And I also think like there's a kind of a like, oh, 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.400 you kids with your phones kind of mentality about it, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.040 where because it's a platform that is really taken off 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.080 with younger people, it's really easily demonized, and so you 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.520 have these lawmakers being like, oh, like, you know, young 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:15.760 people couldn't possibly feel xyz about Palestine, it has to 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:19.040 be TikTok is like rotting their brains, and then they 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.480 turn around and want that same demographic to vote for them. 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:24.160 It's like, on the one hand, they are both like 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.439 devaluing what young people have to say while also being like, oh, 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.040 but we want your votes. And so I just had 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.559 the whole conversation around TikTok on the backdrop of how 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.920 it's unfolding with X like, it just feels really disingenuous, 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:41.640 and I don't know that it's a conversation that is 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.439 really benefiting us and really making us safer. If lawmakers 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.480 want to have a conversation about how we make social 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.480 media platforms safer, how we stop social media platforms from 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.720 profiting from harming people and taking all of our data, 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.560 and have an actual conversation about like a robust data 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.080 privacy policy, I am. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:11:59.600 All for it. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.160 I don't think just spanning one platform gets us there. 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.760 We can all list off on the top of our 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:13.760 heads the ways in which American platforms, American run platforms 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:18.080 have been abusing our data and abusing us since like 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:22.680 their beginning, what responsibility did Meta take for the twenty 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.800 sixteen election they had to pay fines over in Europe 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:28.360 like a slack on the wrisk, but it was at 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.000 least like a billion or so, What was the responsibility? 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.760 What was the accountability that Meta had to play? YouTube 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.920 and others that were you know, for Google, like in 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:45.319 terms of broadcasting and platforming disinformation, misinformation and white supremacy. 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.720 And in fact, I would argue that platforms like YouTube 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.600 that is owned by Google, in the recent months, they've 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.240 actually walked back what very little guardrails they put up 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.040 after twenty sixteen and twenty twenty, they've walked back. And 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.720 so for a while after the twenty two election they 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.120 were like, oh, we won't allow election denihalism on our platform. 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:05.880 They walked that back a couple months ago ahead of 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.439 the ahead of the upcoming election. So not only is 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.240 it a lack of accountability, I think that they're just like, 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.560 it doesn't like we can do whatever we want and 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:15.480 people are not gonna stop using these platforms, and so 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.360 I think the dynamic has really become that they don't 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.320 have to be accountable to us, the people who use 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.920 these platforms and make them billions, and we really have 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.160 to shift that because these platforms would be nothing without us. 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.800 They got us, aren't being accountable to us. 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.840 You know? And I wonder because to that point, how 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:38.280 because I feel like we have also become intellectually enslaved 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.520 to these platforms and their algorithms. If you are a 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.640 content creator, right like you and I are content creators, 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.880 the only way for you to get pops is to 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.640 basically live on those apps, right, be able to put 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.000 up five, ten, fifteen videos a day, to be able 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.040 to push out content to meet your audience, and for 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.640 folks to stay on their screens all day every day. 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.680 And so because of that, I'm like, how, like, is 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.240 it is it a boycott? Because I don't see a 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.080 bunch of people saying, you know what, I'm good? So 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.760 in your mind, what does it look like for us, 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.880 as those that are the source of their power and 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:22.800 their wealth to make them accountable even when the people 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.760 that we are electing to regulate them and hold them 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.920 accountable don't What a good question? 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.840 I mean, I think part of it is almost like 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:36.920 a philosophical answer of really putting these platforms in an 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.920 appropriate place in our lives and in our media diets. 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.320 You know, I love technology and I love the Internet, 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.280 and I hate that we're in a place where when 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.760 I'm talking about technology and the Internet, invariably I'm talking 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:52.120 about like three different companies Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, I guess 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.800 for Google. And it's like, we've gotten to this place 0:14:54.840 --> 0:15:00.120 where these four massive companies, mostly run by white male billionaires, 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.280 to become synonymous with the Internet. And so I think 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:07.080 that ultimately we deserve an Internet ecosystem that is more robust, richer, 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.400 more dynamic, has more players than like four people making 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:12.800 decisions for how we will get our content. And I 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.080 don't know what you said about being a content creator 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:19.760 and what it feels like to exist in these platforms 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.400 really speaks to me because it is so exhausting, Like 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:27.640 it's exhausting. Have you ever seen the guidelines from Adam Mosseerri, 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.440 who runs Instagram, where it will be like, here's how 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.280 you succeed on Instagram And it'll be like post five 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.960 reels a day, post five times on a grid, and 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.080 it's like, Okay, well, I have a job. My job 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.960 is that full time Instagram creator. I have a family, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.120 I have a life and maybe the kind of inside 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:47.080 and perspective that I'm able to bring. I need to 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.840 spend time not thinking get Instagram to do it. I 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:50.760 need to spend time in. 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:55.800 The world like thinking and existing. Right, yeah, yeah, Because 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:57.840 there was a point where I was really trying to 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.920 develop my TikTok presence, right, and I had gotten some 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:06.520 really good tutorials from much younger content creators who were 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.920 like Danielle, I think that you could translate to TikTok 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.440 and this is here are some ideas, right and just 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:15.040 give it a go. And they're like, also, you need 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:19.800 to put up at least nine videos a day, And 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.760 I was like, in. 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.840 What world, it's not happening, like in not in what 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:26.520 a world? 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.080 But there was like a span of time bridget I 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.600 shit you not where I was putting up like six 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.960 videos a day, and then at the end of like 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.480 that month, I was burnt out. I didn't want to 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.240 log onto TikTok, I didn't want to share a video. 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.760 I just didn't have it, you know. And so I 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.840 also want people to understand that those that try to 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.520 make a living and build a presence and a platform, 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.240 like again, we don't own any of the data. So 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.280 the tens of thousands of people that started following me 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.560 on TikTok, it's not like I have their email addresses, right, 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.800 It's not like I have access to them to bring 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.520 them into different formats in places, and so again it 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.280 is really about us looking and saying, am I really 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.199 in control of this? Then I say that I'm a 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.919 content creator, I say that I'm a you know, an 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.399 entrepreneur and doing these things, but like I think that 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.240 I have just traded one master for another. 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.360 That is a word. I mean, that is really how 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.600 it feels. And you know, let's say that you are 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.080 somebody who built up a huge following on TikTok then 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.280 it gets banned, or you're somebody who built up a 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.159 huge following on Instagram, then they tweak the algorithm, or 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.679 the kind of content that you were told succeeds on 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.720 the platform no longer pops off. Like it's just not 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.320 something that I think is healthy. It's not something that 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.840 I think is really possible. Like I really had to 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.200 have like a come to Jesus moment of like what 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.000 is it that I do well? 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.040 What is my value? Add what do I like doing? 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.040 And that's not making videos on TikTok, right like, and 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.280 I have to sort of be okay with that that 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.400 not every like Like I also did the TikTok thing. 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.719 It was a huge flop for me, partly because I 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:06.600 was not willing to make a million videos a day, 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.280 And I kind of have to be okay with that 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.840 and hope that the people who resonate with what I 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.600 have to say will find me in other ways. 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:17.760 But it's hard. It's really hard. 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.760 But as you said, increasingly, and I think especially for 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.600 black folks, for women, for people who are traditionally marginalized, 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.359 you do have to have that presence on TikTok or 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.720 on social media to get your point across. It's not 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.240 like you could, like you know, if you ever go 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.320 to try to get like a book deal, the first 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.199 thing they ask you is like, how many cass do 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:35.480 you have? 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:37.280 Exactly? And so I. 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.960 Recognize it's easy for me to say like, oh, just 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.879 don't care about your TikTok presence or whatever, because of 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.400 the reality is it does matter. But I guess I'm 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.320 trying to do the individual personal work of making it 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.320 matter less in my own mind and my own understanding 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.800 of my work and my values and my value. 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.960 It is so much work, and it's so much compartmentalization, 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.040 right and understanding like that you are not the product 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.600 that you are putting out. It's a very tricky game 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:06.840 as a content creator. I want to switch gears with 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.359 a couple of minutes that we have to talk about 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.960 generative AI and to talk about where we are, how 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.960 it's being used, and whether or not. And I know 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.280 that it's not black or white, that it is not 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.479 you know, inside of the binary. But is it going 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.600 to be for our betterment in your humble opinion, or 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:29.600 we just essentially setting ourselves up for a massive like 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.560 failure of humanity Because I tell you I think in 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.000 only existential thoughts when I think when I think about AI, 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.560 have no one has changed my mind on this, so please. 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:41.600 Sounds like somebody has been staring into the void and 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:46.320 like correct ground with existential thoughts. Okay, correct, Yeah, I 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.040 mean this is what I think about AI right at 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.960 my core. I am a techno optimist. I think that technology. 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.600 I've seen the way that it can connect people, inform people, 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:57.439 all of that. I think that we are at a 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:01.480 critical moment with generative AI where we are running out 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.600 of time to decide whether or not this is going 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:09.199 to be technology that helps us or harms us. I 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.119 think it's all about the people that we center, because 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.240 you know, it's easy to think about AI as like 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.520 hyper intelligent, hyper aware robots, but it's people. It's made 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:20.919 by people, it's trained by people, it learns from us. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.159 So we're really talking about people. And I think that 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.800 right now we have to decide if we are going 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:30.880 to center and follow the same kind of tech billionaires 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:32.560 that led us to this place that we were just 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.960 talking about a moment ago, Danielle, where you know, it 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:38.560 feels like our information ecosystem is crumbling. Do we want 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.879 to listen to those same people that got us to 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.520 this moment that feels so scary and tough when it 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:48.640 comes to making decisions about AI, or do we want 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:53.600 to listen to the hundreds of mostly marginalized people, right 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:57.159 black women women who have been raising the alarm about AI, 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:01.520 really having the conversations about ethics, talking about how we 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.760 can make AI that truly is people centered, and the 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:06.919 need to do that. I think we can go one 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:11.240 of two ways, but we are losing time to decide 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:13.520 where we're gonna go, and So what I think when 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:15.159 it comes to AI is like we really need to 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.480 have a shift of who we listen to, who we 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.640 decide as an expert, who we center, because right now 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.560 we're doing the same thing that we're doing with the 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:26.399 platforms right where we've decided a couple of companies like 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:30.840 open AI and others mostly headed by white CIS men, 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:32.879 and we've just decided like they are the people who 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:35.120 are going to figure this out, and I want something 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.280 different from us. We have voices that are offering a 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:40.919 different story in a different future. We just have to 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:42.720 decide that those are the voices that we are going 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:43.159 to center. 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:48.800 Last question for you, bridget too, and this one is 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.400 you know, around pride, as I you know we've been 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.240 saying on the show this month. You know, pride is 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.520 three hundred and sixty five days of the year, particularly 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:00.000 when our community is under attack in so many ways 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.280 from so many spaces and places. And I wonder when 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.960 you say, like you're a techno optimist, how that translates 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:12.280 into like your own multitude of identities at a time 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.280 when America and the world feel fairly dark. 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.760 Yeah, I'm just remembering that the last time we talked 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.800 was also Pride this time last year, and I was 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.200 telling you that I had got out to a Pride 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:30.640 party and it felt different, Like I was like, I'm 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:32.240 a little nervous being here. 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:33.280 Is this safe? 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:35.240 But then when I kind of like leaned into the moment, 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:37.040 I was like, Oh, this actually feels good, and we 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:40.119 need to have these spaces. I think it really comes 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:43.800 down to that that, like, sometimes it feels like just existing, 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:48.280 just living, just thriving, just being here is its own 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.880 kind of quiet, radical act, and so I'm leaning into that. 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:55.200 That like resistance and showing up every day and being 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:57.960 an optimist and having hope and thinking making plans for 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.640 your future, being hopeful about the future in a kind 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:02.800 of way, that is a radical act that I'm sort 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.280 of clinging to that, you know, as everything feels like 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:08.520