1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: It's just about infrastructure that can lead the economic growth 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: for a generation. We need to make sure that we 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: established they comprehensive cybersecurity strategies. Republicans have a great chance 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: of taking the House. In Bloomberg Sound On, the insiders, 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: the influencers, the insids. We continue to open this economy slowly, 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: but it's coming back. I want to know what the 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: theme is going to be for Republicans. I can't imagine 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: a more important person in Washington right now than the 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: Senator Joe Manchick Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio Live from Washington, where it has been a 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: week and coming up. On the Friday edition of Bloomberg 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: Sound On, we focus on crypto to start a warning 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: from none other than Michael Burry of Big Short, fame 15 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: of the Mother of All crashes. We'll talk to Bloomberg's 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: Bed Bain straight ahead about the move to regulate crypto. 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: I we have been following crypto prices today after the 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: warning from Michael Mury, the head of Psion Asset Management 19 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: portrayed in the movie The Big Short, when he speaks. 20 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,279 Speaker 1: People listen. He's closely followed by the meme stock crowd, 21 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: and I think we can add crypto investors today. He's 22 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: warning of the biggest market bubble in history, says crypto 23 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: and meme stocks will plummet, creating losses the size of countries. 24 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: He says, the problem is the leverage, and he's certainly 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: got our attention this morning reading that story on the terminal, 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: we're joined by Bloomberg reporter Ben Bain now joining me 27 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: live in Washington. He specializes in financial regulations, so just 28 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,639 Speaker 1: the person we should be speaking with here. Ben. Welcome, 29 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: It's great to see you. The move to regulate crypto 30 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: is something we're hearing more and more about and seems 31 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: to be something that we can't turn away from at 32 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: this point. Is this inevitable? Yeah, I think so. Thanks 33 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: a lot. Good to be here. I think at this 34 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: point it does seem as though here in Washington, regulators, 35 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: lawmakers on the Hill have decided that something to be 36 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: done here. Really, we passed through the Trump administration, and 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: the idea had basically been that a lot of these 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies or tokens were considered securities and they fell under 39 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: the Securities and Exchange Commissions regulation, and they would sue 40 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: people who violated laws under the same laws that have 41 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: been around literally since nineteen thirty three and nineteen thirty four. 42 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: On the other side of Washington, there's this other agency 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: called the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and everything else like 44 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: bitcoin and ether, these really really large cryptocurrencies were considered 45 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: commodities and they would basically look at the derivatives based 46 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: on them. Now in Washington, there's a view, I think 47 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: that something more needs to happen. So you hear things 48 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: like the new SEC chair, relatively new, Gary Gensler, saying 49 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: things that there's really a gap in federal regulation when 50 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: it comes to these bitcoin exchanges, so the big cryptocurrency 51 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: exchange we think about here in the United States, like 52 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: coin based for example. He says there's no regulation. Something 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: has to happen, and he said he wants to work 54 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: with Congress. He wants something to actually occur. We don't 55 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: quite yet know what that is. He hasn't laid out 56 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: his roadmap. Remember Gary Gensler spent I think it was years, 57 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: certainly several years actually now that I'm thinking about it, 58 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: teaching courses on cryptocurrencies and blockchains at M I T. 59 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: So it's not a new topic for him. No, he's 60 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: been talking about this for years now. I guess just 61 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: to go back a second, are we talking about regulating 62 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: those platforms like coin based or the currency itself across 63 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: the board. So I think you have the way the 64 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: different policymakers talk about it. In Washington's they kind of 65 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: take bitcoin and they separate that from everything else. So 66 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: bitcoin is at this point widely considered the kind of 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 1: staple cryptocurrency. It's not centralized in the sense that Washington 68 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: at this point doesn't want to add regulation to bitcoin 69 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: per se. They may want to add regulation to how 70 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: people trade bitcoin. So that's the platforms, that's the exchanges, 71 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: that's the intermedia, is the brokers. Now you're talking about 72 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: Wall Street firms wanting to get more and more involved 73 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: in trade eating bitcoin, so there's more regulation piling on there. 74 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: Then you have everything else. You have companies wanting to 75 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: raise money by selling tokens, things that are look a 76 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: lot like a stock share but are actually digitized or 77 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: on the blockchain. So some people say that's really just 78 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: an end to run around, you know, decades old securities 79 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: laws in and the SEC over the past five years 80 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: now have have gone after that, and the indications are 81 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: that they're going to continue to and probably even turn 82 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: it up a little bit. We have less than a 83 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: minute here, Ben. Would it be the SEC, would it 84 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: be against their regulating this, or would it be the 85 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: commodities futures or another agency altogether? That that that's the 86 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: big question. So, I mean, looking at Washington right now, 87 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: it's it's probably a fair bet that Congress is not 88 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,799 Speaker 1: going to do anything quickly at anything, let alone something 89 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: that's as complicated as this. There are indications that the 90 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: SEC does want to stake out, you know, potentially more 91 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: of a role here. So I think it's safe to 92 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: assume that we're going to see a lot of movement 93 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: from the SEC in terms of defining, uh, really how 94 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: they're going to wrap their arms around these securities that 95 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: exist and and really, you know, go ahead and turn 96 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: the screws a bit fascinating as ever. Really appreciate the 97 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: insights from Bloomberg SEC reporter Ben Ban and we're joined 98 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: now on Bloomberg sound On by Congressman David Schweiker, Republican 99 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: from Arizona, who serves on the House Ways and Means Committee, 100 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: and among other duties, is also the Republican co chair 101 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: of the Blockchain Caucus. Congressman, thank you for being with us. 102 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: You are no stranger to this story. You helped to 103 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: write the Blockchain Records and Transaction Act. How should this 104 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 1: market be regulated? And do you worry about it being overregulated? Um? Look, 105 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: I have great fear that it's almost in some ways 106 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: an unregulatable um market in many ways. So how do 107 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: you sort of set up that the clearing, the purchasing. Okay, 108 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: they have some consumer protection, don't you realize the ability 109 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: to create tokens um as things on a distributor of 110 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: Ledger make it very hard to sort of put it 111 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: into our current constricts. That the way the SEC or 112 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: even the commodities regulators see the world, and my fears 113 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: they're trying to take sort of model legislation and try 114 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: to put it into something at almost ethereal in a 115 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: secure digital world out on the Internet. The chair of 116 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: the SEC, Gary Ginsler, has been pretty close to this 117 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: story as well for years, even taught a class on 118 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: blockchain at m I T. He has been careful to 119 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: draw the line between regulating the currencies the coins themselves 120 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: as opposed to blockchain as a technology. And to make 121 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: the point of how long he's been talking about this, 122 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: This is an interview Gary Ginsler with Bloomberg back in 123 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen when he was asked about regulating crypto. It 124 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: needs to come inside of public policy envelope. That means 125 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: we need to guard against illicit activity, and yes, we 126 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: need to protect investors. The crypto exchanges, big exchanges like 127 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: coin Base need to really come within either SEC or 128 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: the CFTC, the agency I once was honored to chair. 129 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: Is that encouraging commentary for you or concerning the commentary? No, Actually, 130 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: in many ways it might actually make the market much wider, 131 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: much broader, much deeper because of trust um and you 132 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: sort of made the point it wasn't in Gary's coming. 133 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: There is a world of difference between what is a 134 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: distributive ledger. Distributive ledger actually had some really terrific societal benefits, 135 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: privacy benefits, benefits of tracking, you know, um, the things 136 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: that for a poor person, you know, do they have 137 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 1: food stems so they have a type of medical medicaid benefits, 138 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: down to um smart contracts, to you know, triggers on 139 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: legal documents. But that's the distributed ledger world that so 140 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: many people sort of don't get their head around and 141 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: understand the difference between a cryptocurrency, you know, and also 142 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: what could we possibly do with blockchain? My biggest interest 143 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: in in the crypto world. I wanted to be vibrant, 144 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to be available, but I also need as 145 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: it becomes more we're talking about it today, as you 146 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: start to have folks who are maybe not in depth 147 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: in the technology, how do you protect them when they're 148 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: purchasing our selling And that's sort of hat the both 149 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: ends of the end of the transaction. So I hate 150 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily want to regulate the technology in between, 151 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: maybe just the clearing of it. Should the government, whether 152 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: it be the SEC or the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, 153 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: cap the amount of leverage in the market as we 154 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: look at the coins, the crypto currencies themselves, or should 155 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: that be up to the brokerages the trading platforms um 156 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: My interest there is actually more that there be a 157 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: way of public disclosure of what the leverage ratios are 158 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: and in all sincerities, who's sort of offering it, um so, 159 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:36,359 Speaker 1: And the anonymity is what you're saying. Um Actually, it's 160 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: less than anonymity. I'm more concerned about the scale. Do 161 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: you have some brokers that are over leveraging themselvels by 162 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: allowing their client base to over leverage using cryptos as 163 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: a true gambling asset instead of the store of value. 164 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm one of those who believes two 165 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: thousand eight it was an information crisis. We didn't have 166 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: the information of what was underlying in the performance of 167 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: the mbs. And what would two thousand eight looks like 168 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: if every mortgage backed security out that we actually knew 169 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: what was performing and what wasn't performing, you would have 170 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: actually had proper pricing much longer than sort of a collapse. 171 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: Um So, that same sort of information sort of does 172 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: a lot of good and avoiding crashes. Maybe that's what 173 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 1: what needs to be there at the brokeragere level. We're 174 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: talking with Arizona Congressman David Schweiker on Bloomberg sound On 175 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: what do you think about this idea of putting circuit 176 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: breakers in place like we have in the stock market 177 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: to prevent losses from spiraling? And I asked you that 178 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: following this this warning today from Michael Burry made famous 179 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: in The Big Short, something we've been talking about on 180 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: the program, that retail investors could be ruined by a 181 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: major sell off in crypto. Um. Once again, I'm not 182 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: sure normal retail investor throwing their entire life into crypto 183 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: is a particularly brilliant thing. UM, But I'm not sure 184 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: how you truly make and this would be a really 185 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: interesting I almost have the white board. I'm sorry to 186 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: geek out on you. How you would make the circuit 187 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: breakers work on crypto. You could do some um, some 188 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: backing off of the leverage, public disposure of leverage. But 189 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: now if one exchange has to close, this is this 190 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: is a type of product that if you're not going 191 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: to clear it on a coin base, or you're clearing 192 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: it somewhere in Singapore some other places. So it's the 193 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: normal sort of circuit breakers are timeouts or those sorts 194 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: of things would have to be really have to think 195 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: through because I'm not completely sure I can make that 196 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: work on the technology. Don't you ever worry about geeking 197 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: out over here. We're here to geek out. That's that's 198 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 1: why we call Congress with Davis. This is a conversation 199 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: that's not going to end. And as coach here, Republican 200 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: coach here of the Blockchain Caucus, we'd like to stay 201 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: in touch with you. Thanks for all of your insights 202 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: today on Bloomberg Sound On. I'll say it, We've got 203 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: a lot more to learn about this, including the political 204 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 1: implications coming up. We consider them with Bloomberg Politics contributors 205 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: Jeanie Sheenzano and Rick Davis. Becauld the mother of all 206 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: crashes derail the economic recovery. We last that question next. 207 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. 208 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Than 209 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: for joining us as we keep an eye on crypto today, 210 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: Bitcoin falling and slipping below thirties six thousand dollars here, 211 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: remembering it topped out above sixty four thousand dollars back 212 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: in April. And there's a new call as we've been 213 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: discussing this hour, for regulations in the crypto market of 214 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: some form, something we get to talk about now with 215 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she and Zano and Rick Davis. 216 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: Great to have both of you with US on a Friday, Jennie, 217 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: does the Biden administration need to get more serious about this? 218 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: When does the President activate the SEC to regulate crypto 219 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: or is he even paying attention? I think your conversation 220 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: with with Ben Bayne you've made a really good point. Um. 221 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: He said, you know, you can't really depend on Congress 222 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: to do that. So to your point, I do think 223 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: the President is going to have to move in the 224 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: direction of having the SEC take on a greater role, 225 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: or maybe as you were talking about the CFTC. But 226 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: I think we should say it was a pretty tough 227 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: week for crypto all around, you know, setting aside you 228 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: know Burries warnings there on Twitter, you also had the 229 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: f c A from the Okay warning people that they 230 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: could lose all their money or they should be prepared 231 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: to lose all their money. And what struck me about 232 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: that as a polster that came out at the same 233 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: time the f c A was saying that people who 234 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: are using crypto or investing in it are having, for 235 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: the most part, pretty positive experiences with it. So there 236 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: seems to be this juxtaposition between these warnings that are 237 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: fairly dire and people's experience at least majority of people's 238 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: experience with crypto and the big fomo. Rick, do you 239 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: worry about over regulating a market that's just coming into 240 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: its own or is that the point? That may be 241 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: the point, Joe. I mean, the SEC has put out 242 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: its agenda for one and it does not include cryptocurrencies. 243 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: So for the better part of this year, what's left? 244 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: I don't think you can rely on SEC coming into 245 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: the action here, and they've been very clear. Commissioner Genzler 246 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: has said Congress needs to really lead the way on this, 247 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: and so, uh, you know, having talked to a lot 248 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: of members of Congress and their stabs about crypto over 249 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: the years, they're still on a very steep learning curve. 250 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: I mean, this is not something that has come naturally 251 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: to most of the people on Capitol Hill. You are 252 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: getting to a point I wanted to make you. Ever 253 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: watched these hearings, and I know you both have. When 254 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: the big tech companies are called on the carpet and 255 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: lawmakers don't know the difference between a text and an 256 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: I AM or an email, don't know the difference between 257 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: an app or worth the looking at on a browser, Genie, 258 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: these hearings could be mind boggling, if not just confusing, 259 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: they can it and always reminds me when I talked 260 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: to students or even my own kids about you know, 261 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: tech and what's coming out and what's next. I feel 262 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: a little bit like those congressmen sitting there in those hearings, 263 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: and you know, I do think and this was brought 264 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: up the congressman in your discussion with him. You know 265 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: when he said he fears that it's an unregulatable market. 266 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: Is I think what the quote was, you know, at 267 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: least now. And he talked about how whether it's Congress 268 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: or Rick just mentioned it's probably not gonna be the 269 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: SEC at least this year, that there's we're trying to 270 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: retrofit into an old style of regulation. That's a very 271 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: scary prospect when you've got so many people, particularly young 272 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: people in many cases, investing in this. If the bottom 273 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: falls out, the hit could be traumatic. Rick, you know 274 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: what it's like to prep lawmakers for hearings. Does everybody 275 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: need to go to school? Yeah, this is something that 276 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: everybody has to really start to understand and and study 277 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: up on because it's not going away. As you've pointed out, 278 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a real factor in in the economy, 279 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: and as Bury points out, it could have a really 280 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: uh negative impact on our economy and our growth if 281 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: we're not careful. And so members need to recruit UH 282 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: staff from these areas who know a lot about it, 283 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: and UH in our regulatory agencies need to beef up 284 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: to and and stay on top of this. Maybe a 285 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: crypto retreat. I'd like to talk about the political implications 286 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: here with both of you. Should the White House, should 287 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: the Fed Genie be more worried about a downturningto and 288 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: MEME stocks? These were together in the warning from Bury, 289 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: Crypto and MEME causing a potential crash that could derail 290 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: in economic recovery or am I being over dramatic? You know? 291 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: I think they should be concerned about it. Do I 292 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: think that that is the largest concern. I'm not sure 293 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: that it's the biggest concern, but I do think they 294 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: need to be concerned about. And let's of course remember 295 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: that if the Fed does raise interest rates, whether next 296 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: year or the following year, these assets that are risky, 297 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: like crypto, that's going to have an impact as well. 298 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: So these things are tied together. So I do think 299 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: the FED has to be very cognizant and concerned all 300 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: all across the board. McDavis. The other side of this 301 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: is all the stimulus, all the cash that's been pumped 302 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: into the economy. Where we go on Twitter and and 303 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: look at people talking about spending their stimmy checks and 304 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: you might have to go back a little while here, 305 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: but a couple of weeks, a couple of months ago, 306 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: that's where a lot of people were taking the money 307 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 1: who some people didn't need it, they had jobs. They 308 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: took their stimmy checks and and bedded on crypto and 309 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: helped to in flate this whole thing. Can we trace 310 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: some of this to the stimulus not just from Congress, 311 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: but also from the Fed? And it could be generational, right, 312 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're a younger adult and you've been 313 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: unemployed and you're getting stimulus checks and living in your 314 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: parents basement, uh during the coronavirus, which a lot of 315 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: families anecdotally have told me that that's been their situation, 316 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: why not go to the track? Right? You can get online, 317 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: you can you can place your bets and and see 318 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: what happens. But it really has been more like gambling 319 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: to these guys. This is not sort of long term 320 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: asset improvement and so um so that is gonna I 321 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: think all these things are gonna be open to discussion. 322 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: And one thing we haven't talked about is Biden brought 323 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: up at the G seven the use of cryptocurrencies through 324 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: ransomware and what a national security implication this could have. So, Genie, 325 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: should crypto be regulated like gambling, like a casino. I 326 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: think it does have to be regulated. I don't know 327 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: if it can be regulated in that way, but I 328 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: do think it's going to have to be regulated. And 329 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: of course, you know we're talking about this Bury tweet, 330 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: but he's also the person. You know, I have a 331 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: lot of students who have invested in bitcoin and game 332 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: stop as well. He pushed that, so they followed him 333 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: there they found not just him, but of course he 334 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: owns some of that as well. Coming up on Bloomberg 335 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: Sound On and many thanks to our political contributors, Genie 336 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: and Rick will be back next. Bloomberg's Eric Shatzker is 337 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: going to take us on a trip to Venezuela. You're 338 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: gonna love this. He just interviewed President Nicholas Maduro exclusively, 339 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: who is pleading with the Biden administration for a deal. 340 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: But when you hear how Eric got into the country 341 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: and what it was like for him to be a 342 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: journalist there, it's almost more interesting than what we heard 343 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: from the president. That's next on sound On. I'm Joe 344 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: Matthew and this is Bloomberg. Thanks for spending part of 345 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: your Friday with us here on Bloomberg sound On. Bomb 346 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: asked in Caracas. What a great read today from Bloomberg's 347 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: Eric Shatzker, who traveled to Venezuela for an exclusive interview 348 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: with President Nicolas Maduro. An eighty five minute romp that's 349 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: still reverberating here in Washington, and Eric joins us now, 350 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: thanks for being here. Eric. It seems President Maduro is 351 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: tired of being isolated, even though I know he doesn't 352 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: like to use that word. I think that's a fair statement. 353 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: It's time for change in Venezuela. Even that is clear 354 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: to the president. The US has maintained sanctions on Venezuela 355 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: dating back to the George W. Bush presidency, but under 356 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: Donald Trump they got much more severe, and as you're 357 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: probably aware of, Venezuela is suffering the worst humanitarian crisis 358 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,479 Speaker 1: in the Western hemisphere. Perhaps that doesn't mean quite as 359 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: much to uh an authoritarian leader such as Mr Medouda 360 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: as it means to other people. But nonetheless, he cares 361 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: about his legacy and he doesn't want to be the 362 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: person who failed Chevismo. Right, this is the political movement 363 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: started by his predecessor, Cuba Chavez. You know, he certainly 364 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: went for Donald Trump. He said the Trump administration caused 365 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: a complete rupture, his words, between the US and Venezuela. 366 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: And well, by the sound of things, nothing has changed 367 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: in the new White House. Listen to what he told, Eric, 368 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: do you want me to be sincere very sincere There 369 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: hasn't been a single positive sign none. It's five months 370 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: where Okay, they're settling into power. The only different thing, 371 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: the only different thing that might be heard from some 372 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: spokespeople of the White House and of the Department of State, 373 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: is that they agree with the political dialogue between Venezuelans 374 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: without intervention. Eric, where is the Biden White House on this? 375 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: Is he right? Is is America's posture changing? As you 376 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: pointed out, the policies on Venezuela predated Donald Trump. America's 377 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: posture has changed. In fact, Tony Blink in the Secretary 378 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: of State said in January that the U S policy 379 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: to Venezuela now is free and fair elections. The U 380 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: S policy towards Venezuela under Donald Trump was regime change, 381 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: and the two are very different things, even if at 382 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: the end of the road they achieve the same result. 383 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: Regime change means you're trying to force out the leader, 384 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: and clearly the Trump administration tried to do that with 385 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: these brutal sanctions. Didn't work. Trump is out of office 386 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: and Madouda is still in the middle Florida's palace, and 387 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: that's something that by the administration probably needs to recognize 388 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: that these sanctions miserable, destructive, though they are are unlikely 389 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: to dislodge him. He has a firm grip on Venezuela. 390 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: And if Venezuela is going to move forward, and if 391 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: the country is going to heal, and if life is 392 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: going to improve for millions there, it's going probably going 393 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: to have to happen in a different way. And I 394 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: want to point out that that is the posture of 395 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: the domestic opposition very relevant, because they're the people who 396 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: are going to need the other big seat at the 397 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: table you're talking with Bloomberg's Eric Shatzker about his exclusive 398 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: interview with the President of Venezuela. He called Venezuela a 399 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: land of opportunity for investors. Was he talking about oil 400 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: or more than that? Oh, certainly more than that. Venezuela 401 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: wants to be able to sell not just its oil, 402 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: but it's gold, it's box site, it's agricultural products, and 403 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes it is locked out of 404 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: commodity markets today because of these U S sanctions. Mdoodle 405 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: is almost certainly right that if capital were to come 406 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: into Venezuela, it would be a land of opportunity for investors. 407 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: There's probably an enormous amount of money to be made 408 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: in Venezuela, but at the moment they can't. And so 409 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: this is in part a plea to the Biden administration 410 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: and in part a naked appeal to or at least, yes, 411 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: a naked appeal to American greed. Right. He wants investors 412 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: to realize that there's opportunity, and maybe that realization will 413 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: help to put some pressure on the by the administration 414 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: one way or the other. I think a fair way 415 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: to to to sort of conceive of this is as 416 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, he says it a win 417 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: win maybe a win win win win. In other words, 418 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: align everybody's and what I mean by that is align 419 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: everybody's interest so that somebody comes out of this, that 420 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: everybody comes out of it at the end of the 421 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: day with something better than what they've gotten now, naked 422 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: appeal to American greed. You're still writing the story here, Eric, 423 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: I want to. I want you to bring us behind 424 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: the scenes. Eric, getting in and out of Venezuela has 425 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: to be a story all to itself. How did you 426 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: pull this off? Well, I'll tell you how it started. 427 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: I've been talking to an emerging market debt investor about 428 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: Venezuela for a long time. In fact, I'm happy to 429 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: tell you who he is. His name is Hans Humes. 430 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: He lives here in New York City, and he's frequently 431 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg television and radio. He's very interested in venezuel 432 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: in part because he's self interested. He and his clients 433 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: stand to make a lot of money in Venezuela in 434 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: debt trades up from where it is right now, and 435 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,719 Speaker 1: we might value it doesn't trade might value it at 436 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: five cents on the dollar. Um So we're talking about that. 437 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: We've been talking about it. He has contacts in Venezuela, 438 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: and about six weeks ago he said, you know, Eric, 439 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: I really think they're ready to talk. And from there 440 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: I was able to take it. To believe it or not. 441 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: An interview with my dud in the Middle Florida's Palace 442 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 1: earlier this week. Getting in and getting out of Venezuela 443 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 1: is a bit of a challenge Venezuela. Excuse me. You 444 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: can't book a ticket on kayak. We got in through 445 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: A or Expedia or you know, whatever travel booking system 446 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 1: you like to use. We got in through the Panamanian 447 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: airline COPA. There is service from Panama City to Caracas 448 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. So if you fly to Panama, 449 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: which you can do from JFK, you get on a 450 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: flight from Panama to Caracas. And it's actually a little 451 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: bit easier than it sounds. To do all of this. 452 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: I will admit that I had some help, but it 453 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: is possable to do on one's own. However, once you 454 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: arrive at a different story, Venezuela is for sure a 455 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: risky place. It probably doesn't deserve the same kind of 456 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: risk grading that Afghanistan gets but you don't want to 457 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: be walking down the street with a backpack. You do 458 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: need some help, you do need some oversight. You probably 459 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: need to hire a driver. Otherwise you're really you may 460 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: not be taking your life into your own hands, but 461 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: you're certainly taking your well being into your own hands. 462 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: Did you have security and did you feel safe knowing 463 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: all of that? I did. As a matter of fact, 464 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: we had a driver. He didn't have a gun. I 465 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: asked um. We were stopped by at a military checkpoint 466 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: once and we were able to get past it without 467 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: having to pay a bribe. The reality is that the 468 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: military checkpoints are there not because they are trying to 469 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: capture political you know, to take people into you know, 470 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: into custody on you know, because their opponents of the regime. 471 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: They're there because they're shaking people down. You know, they 472 00:26:58,280 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: check your papers and if they don't like what they 473 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: say a year, they just decided to give you a hassle, 474 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: you have to throw them a few bucks. That, unfortunately, 475 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: is the way the world works. In Venezuela, it was 476 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: and remains an incredibly corrupt place. The state just doesn't 477 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: have money to pay for all of the military personnel, 478 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: and so they take matters into their own hands. It's 479 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: the same kind of story you get from the airport, 480 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: the shakedowns that occasionally happened at the airport. People asking 481 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: for bribes in return for your luggage because they aren't 482 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: getting paid at the end of the day. It's actually 483 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: a really sad story. I want to travel with Eric Shatzker. 484 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: Fascinating story. Eric, thanks for bringing it to us here 485 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Sound On. It's been a pleasure coming up. 486 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: The White House marks a new COVID vaccine milestone. I'm 487 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg broadcasting live from our nation's capital, 488 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg to New York, Bloomberg eleven, Frio to San Francisco, 489 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: Bloomberg nine sixty to the country, Sirius XM General one 490 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: nine team, and around the globe, the Bloomberg Business app 491 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Sound On 492 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthews. Three hundred million shots in a hundred 493 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: fifty days a new milestone America's fight against COVID and 494 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: the effort to inoculate enough people to beat this virus. 495 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: President Biden spoke about it from the state dining room 496 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: today before he got on the airplane to head home 497 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: to Delaware for the weekend. And just remember what the 498 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: situation was like a hundred fifty days ago. We didn't 499 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: have enough vaccine supply for all Americans. We didn't have 500 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: the vaccine infrastructure, or the people who administer the vaccines, 501 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: or the places where the people could get vaccinated. But 502 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: we turned it around together by acting quickly and aggressively 503 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: and equitably, we secured enough vaccine supply for every American. 504 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: And we're joined again by Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she 505 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: and st No and Rick Davis. Rick, We've come a 506 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: long way on this. There was a time when people 507 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: were doubting the idea of the goal of a hundred 508 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: million shots in the first hundred days. Yeah, and now 509 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: we're three d million and and and and making our 510 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: way to hurt immunity. Social President Biden be declaring victory here, sure, 511 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: And I think today was a little bit of that 512 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: right And uh, I think he wanted to get out 513 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: before any other deadlines, like uh, sent of the population 514 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: inoculated before July four. So I think that this look 515 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: it's all good news. The good news is these these 516 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: infection ratric going way down. Uh and people are you know, 517 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: slowly but surely getting these vaccinations. But I think the 518 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: key thing today was that the administration maintains there uh 519 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: public posture to try and encourage every American to get vaccinated. 520 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: I think that's still their strategy, and they don't want 521 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: to go back on it. They're still variants that are 522 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: causing disruptions and communities, and they want to get all 523 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: that stuff behind them. It's all comes down to the 524 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: reopening right with when when we really look ahead of 525 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: the rest of the year here, Jeanie, you can't get 526 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: the economy back on track without ending this virus. And 527 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: there are still a lot of people who have not 528 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: been vaccinated. The President made clear that's something he's worried about. 529 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: Or how concerned are you about vaccination rates stalling out 530 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: right now? It's a big concern. The President talked about 531 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: the need to close racial gaps and vaccination rates. Um 532 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: he mentioned I mean, I agree with what you and 533 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: Rick were just saying. You know, we've come quite a 534 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: long way. A hundred and seventy five million Americans have 535 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: had at least one shot. You know, if you had 536 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: asked me last year if we could have gotten here, 537 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: I would have said, you know, absolutely not. So it's 538 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: quite an accomplishment, but still there is a long way 539 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: to go, and the last thing we want is for 540 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: that to either stall out or these other variants to 541 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: come along and disrupt people's return back to some sense 542 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: of normalcy. Just when as we're looking towards the fourth 543 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: of July holiday, things are starting to look like, at 544 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: least in the US, like they're getting back on track. 545 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: I think it's important to reiterate that that is not 546 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: true in other parts of the world. You know, people 547 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: talking about children being vaccinated here, how the other people 548 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: in other parts of the world, they're saying, hold on, 549 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: We've got vast populations of people, really elderly people and 550 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: people with pre existing conditions and other parts of the 551 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: world that haven't gotten the vaccination yet. So we have 552 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: to keep doing better around the world as well. There's 553 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: a big butt here, and it's called the delta. Listen 554 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: to President Biden's tone of voice, kind of change as 555 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: he got to this point of the event. It started 556 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: with great optimism, right the milestone three hundred million, a 557 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty days, but there are reasons to be worried. 558 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: The new variant. We'll leave unvaccinated people even more vulnerable 559 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: than they are a month ago or a month ago. 560 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: This is a serious concern, especially because of what experts 561 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: are calling the delta virus Delta variant. It's a very 562 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: that is more easily transmissible, potentially deadlier, and particularly dangerous 563 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: for young people. He said, go get vaccinated now, and 564 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: kept using the word now. Rick. How worried must this 565 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: White House be behind the scenes when they bring in 566 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: medical experts to talk about the worst case scenarios. Yeah, 567 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: because it's exactly what you and Jennie were just talking about, Joe, 568 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: is is that the last thing they need is an 569 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: outbreak somewhere that starts to shut down parts of the economy, 570 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: even if it's just one or two states. Uh, these 571 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: are all things that could have a really salient effect 572 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: on investment and in the future economic expansion and and 573 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: and creating a new job. So they're walking on the 574 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: head of a pin on this, and so I think 575 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: the fact is they are taking a significantly different approach. 576 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: They're talking about what can go wrong rather than in 577 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,959 Speaker 1: the Trump administration. Just given Rosie predictions about the future 578 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: and so uh, this has been their strategy and the 579 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: delta variant has given them another reason. I want to 580 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: approach it this way and and it's been consistent and 581 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: so far successful. Enter the big boss at Fiser, the CEO, 582 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: Albert Bola, held in exclusive sat for an exclusive interview 583 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: today with Bloomberg's David Weston. I was really taken by 584 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: a lot of the comments he made. But but but 585 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 1: really something that to listen to the leader of a 586 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,719 Speaker 1: major pharmaceutical company. Remember they they're about as popular as 587 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: tobacco companies at times when you start talking about drug prices. 588 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: They've been dragged up to Capitol Hill for their hearings 589 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: as well. And he talked about capitalizing using this good 590 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: moment for the good reputation that Fightser has gained through 591 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: the vaccine as leverage to move even further and lower 592 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: drug prices. He wants to sit down with the President. 593 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: He told David Weston and other leaders in Washington to 594 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: make a real effort here. I think would be a 595 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: great opportunity for President by them to pull together and 596 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: by partisan coalition, that we reduced significy the cost of 597 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: medicines for the patients which is the thing that is 598 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: now she Inzana. Would President Biden be open to that? 599 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: Do you think? Is that a pipe dream? You know? 600 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: I think he may be open to it. I'm not 601 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,919 Speaker 1: sure how much pushback he would get on something like that, 602 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: but the President has been focused, I would say, like 603 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: a laser beam on getting this behind us. So I 604 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: think anything that he could do to move that forward, 605 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: I think he would, at least in his team would 606 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: at least entertain the idea. So I do think it's 607 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: an interesting prospect. Rick, We talked Yester about Obamacare surviving 608 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: this most recent Supreme Court case, not to mention, gosh, 609 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: a couple of thousand legal challenges. Is this the next 610 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: move for President Biden to to make a real effort 611 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: to lower drug prices? Well, it is part of the 612 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: package that some of the Democratic senators, the more of 613 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,399 Speaker 1: the left wing of his party have been promoting as 614 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: part of a six trillion dollar reconciliation budget bill that 615 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: would be part of a the other side of the 616 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: infrastructure debate. And so there's definitely conversations about it. It's 617 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: it's a high priority for UH for the left, and 618 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 1: and Biden has always been sensitive to supporting, uh, efforts 619 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: to try and lower drug prices. Let's see the reconciliations 620 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: of far cry though from holding hearings, creating a panel 621 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: doing this in the open, is it not absolutely? Uh? 622 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: You know these are right now pipe dreams. Another six 623 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: trainon dollars in spending is a little hard to imagine 624 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: right now. But uh, but look, I mean, you know, 625 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: he's got to pick winners and losers, and certainly from 626 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: a political point of view, the effort to try and 627 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: lower drug prices or something that's going to gain him 628 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: some votes. Is it good politics to be seen with 629 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: the CEO of Fiser, Genie, we saw President Biden head 630 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: out to Kalamazoo. They've actually got to know each other 631 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 1: a little bit. But I do think, you know, there 632 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: is why spread support for lowering the drug prices. So 633 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: I do think it is a good thing to be 634 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: seen if the goal is to lower those drug prices 635 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: for Americans. I don't think they should be seen hanging 636 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: out partying together. And I'm not saying they were, I'm Jessie. 637 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: You know how they're seeing I think is important. But 638 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: this has been you know, a longstanding challenge in the 639 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: United States is the drug prices, and again the polls 640 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: show Americans are this is one of the things that 641 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: we agree on the need for the government to address this. 642 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: There's no need we there's no reason we need to 643 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,720 Speaker 1: be paying as much as we are in this country 644 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,439 Speaker 1: for pharmaceuticals. Much has been said about high prices, about 645 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: the amount of control uh that that the major pharmaceutical 646 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: companies have when drugs are under patent. But there was 647 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: another point in this conversation that's worth listening to. On 648 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: a Friday, right, we're all about to end home, I 649 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: hope for the weekend, and just the idea of hope optimism. 650 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,439 Speaker 1: What this new mr n A technology could bring. If 651 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: we cured covid, if we could vaccinate ourselves against co it, 652 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: what else could we do? The fundamental question that comes 653 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: to me after this great success it is if we 654 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 1: were able to do it for covid, why not for cancer? 655 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: Why not for alzheims? Why not for many other diseases 656 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: that they require treatments. That's in general, for the industry 657 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: and ourselves, we are focused on a six therapeutic areas 658 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 1: that they are covering a broad spectrum of medical needs. 659 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: Most of them unmant right now, Rick, should the White House, 660 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: should the government make more room for pharmaceutical companies like 661 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: fiz or to achieve those goals. Yeah. I think that 662 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: some of these technology breakthroughs like m r n A 663 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: have really opened up and a significant amount of energy 664 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: in in research around medicine. And by the way, so 665 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: has COVID itself. So much money has been spent in 666 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: the last eighteen months to come up with these kinds 667 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:58,399 Speaker 1: of vaccinations using this technology that it significantly enhances their 668 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: ability to be transferred over to other things, Like the 669 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: chairman of FISER has said, UH to combat UH cancer 670 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: And so we're entering a real renaissance I think of 671 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: discovery around the kind of energy that COVID is going 672 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,800 Speaker 1: is giving us, and so, you know, it may be 673 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: one of the great effects of the largest pandemic in 674 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,399 Speaker 1: our lifetimes is to actually create a lot of new 675 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: discoveries in healing, whether it's Fiser, Moderna, Novavax, another company 676 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: than Genie. Is this the silver lining from covid? It is? 677 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: And you know, I think we think back to when 678 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: we first you know, the COVID first swept to the 679 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: world to imagine that these companies and these scientists and 680 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: the governments could work together to get us where we 681 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 1: are now. You know, many of us are luckily vaccinated, 682 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: fully or partly at this point. That's remarkable achievement that 683 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: we don't stop and think about, and to the discussion. 684 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: If we could move that into other areas, whether cancer 685 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: are all timers, that would be an amazing silver lining. 686 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: Stuff to be positive and optimistic about as we consider 687 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: the way forward. Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie she and Zano 688 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: and Rick Davis, Thanks for all your insights this week. 689 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: We do have some things to be positive about, and 690 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,720 Speaker 1: I hope you have a great weekend. Thanks for spending 691 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: time with us on sound On. I'm Joe Matthew. This 692 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg